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slash criminal. This

1:02

episode contains descriptions of violence.

1:05

Please use discretion. Daniel?

1:10

Oh, how you doing?

1:11

Hi. This is Phoebe.

1:13

How you doing, Phoebe?

1:14

I'm fine. Thank you very much for doing

1:16

this.

1:18

No problem. I love sharing

1:20

my story.

1:21

How about if we just start with you

1:23

introducing yourself? Okay.

1:26

How are you doing? My name is Daniel Taylor.

1:28

I was born and raised in Chicago. I

1:32

ended up going into DCFS

1:36

department of children's family services. And

1:38

so I ended up get moved around

1:41

a lot from foster home to foster

1:43

home from a group home to group home.

1:46

Daniel Taylor was first removed from his

1:48

mother's custody when he was eight. And

1:50

officially became award of the state in nineteen

1:52

eighty six when he was eleven.

1:55

You know, you you stay in one place for a while,

1:57

you get to know the people, You get to

1:59

go AAAAAAA love form and

2:03

an appreciation form. And

2:05

next thing, you know, you just snashed up

2:07

and moved to another place because something changed,

2:10

or the funding wasn't coming

2:12

through on time, sort of place here to be closed,

2:14

or and and so to get moved

2:16

around so much, it it had

2:18

as as pluses as well. I

2:21

got to meet a lot of different people. I had I

2:23

got a chance to see a lot of different

2:25

things, experience a lot of different things

2:28

other than what I was used to in a hood.

2:31

And his bad job was that I always

2:34

made good good friends and ended up having

2:36

to leave

2:36

him. That was for me, that was a roughest.

2:40

So were you were you trying to go to school

2:42

as you were being moved around? Oh,

2:45

yes. Every time I went to a

2:47

foster home or a group home, it was mandatory

2:49

that they got you in school right away.

2:52

So I've been to quite a few schools in my

2:54

in my young days, a lot. It's

2:59

not all over again, and I'm

3:01

the new guy, and I'm trying to figure out the

3:03

difference between this new place

3:06

and the old place

3:08

and try to find similarities where I could find

3:10

a way to connect. But

3:13

I knew it wouldn't last long because at some point,

3:16

you know, something always went, you

3:18

know, whether it was they

3:20

was closing the place down or new

3:22

people was coming in, or

3:25

I just had to end up moving to

3:27

another group home or foster

3:29

home. You know, and at the

3:31

wild, you kinda get used to it. You

3:33

know, you you learn about, you know, taking numbers

3:35

down and staying in contact with them like that, but

3:38

you know, it's not like being around somebody that

3:41

you sleep next to in a dorm. It

3:43

was a stress.

3:46

He asked me he lived in more than twelve different

3:48

foster homes and facilities. And

3:50

says he joined a gang that some of his friends

3:53

were part of, the vice lords. Late

3:56

in the summer in fall of nineteen ninety two,

3:59

he was arrested five times, twice

4:02

for theft, and three times

4:04

for what was described as mob action.

4:08

And then on November sixteenth, he

4:10

was arrested again. On

4:12

November sixteenth, I

4:17

was in a house sleep when

4:20

one of my friends came and woke me up.

4:23

And he was like, man, I just got into a fight

4:25

with this guy, and

4:28

he was bigger than me. And

4:30

so I I got

4:32

a we went to the park so I could fight

4:34

the guy because he felt

4:36

I was, you know, roughly the same size as the guy.

4:39

My opinion, the guy wasn't being he was just

4:41

tall, but that's neither hitting or there.

4:44

So me and this guy

4:46

got to fight. And

4:48

when I was fighting him, it was a lady hitting

4:51

me in my back, in the back of my head. So

4:53

I'm like, I look back to see who was doing it,

4:55

and I realized it was his mother. And

4:59

so I stopped I stopped fighting

5:02

them, and everybody

5:05

got to walking away. And

5:08

as we were walking away, the

5:11

police was riding down the street.

5:15

And ended up grabbing me, putting

5:18

me on a car, patting me down, searching

5:21

me, and they

5:23

were about to let me go until the

5:26

guy that I was fighting his mother came over there like, no.

5:28

That's him. That's the one I was fighting my son.

5:31

And so I ended up going to jail that night.

5:34

According to police records, at

5:36

six forty five PM, he was arrested

5:39

for disorderly conduct. And held

5:41

in police custody for just over

5:43

three hours before being released

5:45

on

5:45

bond. So when I got out, you

5:47

know, in in Chicago, when they take

5:50

you to jail, they take your shoes, trains, your

5:52

belt, anything that that that

5:54

you might possibly

5:57

harm yourself with. And

5:59

so when they let you when they release you,

6:01

they give you your property back. And

6:03

so I sat on the stairs and they stitched my shoes

6:05

up. Because the area that

6:09

the police took me to is It's

6:11

a at that time, it was a gang ridden area.

6:13

I mean, right around the police station too.

6:16

It was gangs all around that station.

6:19

And it was a rival game to what

6:21

I was at that time.

6:23

And so I knew that when I walked out on

6:25

doors, I had better be able

6:27

to run.

6:30

Once I lifted my shoes, I

6:33

walked out the doors and I

6:36

started running. First, it was more like a slow

6:38

jog. And then when you get closer

6:40

to certain blocks or athletes, you wanna pick your

6:42

speed up in case somebody recognized you. That's

6:44

from a different organization than what

6:47

I was in at that time.

6:49

Daniel had been staying at his friend's mother's

6:51

house. And he says that when

6:53

he got there, he could tell that something

6:55

had happened.

6:57

I could tell you the house had been ran

7:00

through or

7:03

what do you wanna call it? A rated. And

7:05

because the doors was was torn off,

7:07

you know, inside the

7:08

house, everything was screwed about. His

7:11

friend's mother's name was Andrea

7:13

Phillips, but Daniel says

7:15

people called her

7:16

cookie.

7:17

And she told me that I had to get out.

7:19

Because you'd been arrested, Not

7:21

think it's because the house had been raided. And

7:25

the whole stuff, you know, when they raid your house, they

7:27

they tear everything up. They

7:29

pull your couches off. They pull

7:31

the drawers all the way out. Taking

7:34

them off the rack. They they flip your

7:36

mattress. They they they

7:39

unzip the pillow coverings, the

7:41

the the the

7:45

couch pillow covers, I mean,

7:47

they they they just really, like, mess your

7:49

house up real bad.

7:51

The police said they had found a small amount of

7:53

cocaine. CocoPhillips said

7:56

she believed the drugs belonged to

7:57

Daniel. She told him he had to

7:59

leave.

8:00

So now I'm faced with another task to

8:02

find out where I'm asleep and where I'm a

8:04

where I'm a go. He

8:06

remembers he walked to an emergency shelter.

8:08

He knew it was nearby. And

8:10

so it was a short walk and I know that

8:13

me being awarded a state with DCFS. That

8:15

if I went in there that they take me in.

8:19

And at some point, if I stayed that long enough,

8:21

they'll find me placement somewhere. And

8:23

what placement means is a group

8:25

home or foster home in which you can

8:27

stay long term.

8:31

Two weeks after he was arrested for fighting,

8:33

he remembers he was staying at a youth shelter.

8:36

His younger brother was there too. And

8:39

they had, like, dorm rooms with with

8:42

at that time, like, five to six

8:44

beds in one room. And

8:46

my brother was, you know, we both Of course,

8:48

we'd rather we wanna be in the same room so we

8:50

was our beds were next to each other.

8:53

And I'm walking up.

8:57

So when I looked and I seen that it it was

9:01

some white people saying my name. Because

9:04

at that group home, it was it was mostly blacks.

9:06

So if you've seen a white person, it

9:09

it it was it it it would it would

9:12

alert you to something, you know, something's

9:14

not right, something's going on. And

9:16

so when they woke me

9:18

up saying my name, they told

9:20

me I need to get dressed. I

9:23

got up, I got dressed, as

9:26

they was walking me out. I'm actually,

9:28

like, what's going on? I even asked

9:30

a staff member Like, what's going on?

9:33

And I was like, you need to go with them.

9:36

And I'm like, for what? And so

9:38

I asked, was like, what, you know, what what is all

9:40

this about? And they didn't

9:42

say anything until we got the car.

9:44

When we got in the car, I'm like, man, what's going on?

9:47

And one of the officers, like, man, you know what you did?

9:51

And I'm like, what? I'm like, I ain't done nothing.

9:53

And then he punched me in my chest and

9:55

told me to sit back. Did

9:59

anyone answer you on the whole ride or

10:01

did he just say sit back and be quiet?

10:04

Like, once he hit me and told me to sit back and

10:06

be quiet, I didn't say anything else.

10:08

I just sat down. I

10:11

I knew I hadn't done anything, so

10:14

I just knew, like, once they, you know, once

10:16

they did tell me what was really going on, you know,

10:18

I explained. And and, you

10:20

know, I'd be home, you know, well, at

10:22

the I'd be back at the shelter. You

10:29

know, when I first got there, they threw me in a

10:31

room. And

10:33

they cut me to a wall, and

10:38

they left out. Now,

10:40

they came back in. They

10:45

came in, they say, hey, man, what's going on?

10:47

And, you know, I might be paraphrasing, but

10:51

that the end result was

10:53

they they wanted to know what

10:55

I

10:56

knew about a murder. And

10:58

they said that I was involved in

11:00

it. They they told

11:02

me certain things that one

11:05

of the other guys that was locked up

11:07

has said I was I supposedly had

11:09

dead. And so they

11:11

they pretty much was telling me things I did and

11:13

things I supposedly did. I'm like, some

11:15

murders. I don't know nothing about no murders. I

11:18

mean, it took me shot. III

11:21

couldn't even believe it was even asking me or

11:23

questioned me about that. That was not my

11:25

lifestyle. I wasn't a guy that was

11:27

riding around, toting guns, and shooting

11:29

guns, that that wasn't me. I

11:31

told them I don't have nothing to do with this. I didn't

11:33

do this. Whose

11:35

ever telling me all this, that lie. I

11:37

don't I don't know anything about murder. And

11:41

one of them got mad and we, you know, we got the

11:43

cussing at each other and and

11:46

one of them hit me in my lower back. With

11:50

one of old school

11:52

flashlights. I I don't see them much around

11:54

no more like that. I used to back in a day. You remember them

11:56

long, big black ones?

11:58

And, you know, they gave they punched me

12:00

in my body a little bit to intimidate

12:03

me. And and one of them even told me that

12:06

Oh, he gonna he gonna enjoy this because I

12:08

have dark skin, so my bruises won't

12:11

show as easy. A

12:13

man and a woman had been shot and killed. In

12:16

a second floor apartment on Chicago's

12:18

north side. Daniel

12:20

says that the police seemed convinced

12:23

that he and a number of other young black men

12:25

were

12:25

involved. was blindsided.

12:28

You know, I never taken

12:31

a life. So

12:33

for them to step to me, my question

12:35

is about murder, give us

12:38

It was like I couldn't believe it. I

12:41

was like, I'm I'm sitting there in total shock, like,

12:43

there's no way. That's

12:46

impossible. And I just It's

12:48

a shock that I I don't believe I have the vocabulary

12:51

to explain it fully.

12:57

You ended up signing a confession. Yes?

13:03

Why?

13:06

Nissan and a confession is the the the

13:08

worst time in my life that I

13:10

can picture ever. It's

13:13

it's just just being a man and,

13:15

you know, and and

13:18

and standing up for yourself, and that was

13:20

one of my lowest points ever in my life.

13:25

I've been hit before and didn't fight back.

13:29

I've been in fights where I hear the room.

13:32

But what they did to me, the fear

13:34

that they evoked in me,

13:39

as a kid was

13:42

was outrageous. Like, I

13:44

was

13:45

frightened. They had, you know,

13:47

they had been beating on me.

13:51

They kept telling me what I did. They

13:54

told me I was gonna sign that confession. I

13:58

I knew how they were. So

14:01

I did what they wanted me to do. I

14:04

ain't got nobody that's that

14:06

that I felt I could reach

14:08

out to to stop what they were doing

14:11

from happening. And

14:13

so III signed a confession. III

14:16

repeated what they told me

14:19

that I suppose the hair

14:20

did. Then they called the

14:22

state's attorneys here. So

14:26

did they did they kind of tell

14:31

you

14:33

what to say in the confession or Or

14:35

basically

14:35

gave me the information. Of

14:39

of what happened.

14:42

Also, they brought one of the guys

14:44

in that that they had

14:46

at the station

14:47

to say that that that was with him.

14:50

When he walked into the interrogation

14:52

room, they like to say What's

14:55

that new thing they'd like to say now? Conference

14:59

room? No. That was not conference room. That was an interrogation

15:01

room. When they brought him in there,

15:04

And I'm looking at him like, man, what's going on?

15:08

And looking at his eyes, I never

15:10

forget

15:10

it. I

15:12

never forget it.

15:15

What happened after you signed the confession? I

15:18

said in that interrogation room for

15:20

a while. And

15:22

at some point, when the officers came and

15:25

took me down to a

15:28

a holding

15:28

sale. And on our

15:30

way down, I'm telling him, like, man, I

15:32

didn't do this, bro. I

15:35

didn't take these people out. I'm not a killer.

15:38

Daniel says that as they walk down

15:40

to the holding

15:40

cell, he realized something

15:43

about the date of the murders. You know,

15:45

and and and that's what hit me on my way

15:47

down to the hole to say, like, wait a

15:49

minute, man. I acquired

15:50

that. So I mean, that was locked up.

15:53

The murders had taken place on November

15:55

sixteenth. The same day Daniel

15:58

was arrested for fighting in the park. He

16:01

had been arrested at six forty five

16:03

PM. The murders happened

16:06

at eight forty three PM. And

16:08

Daniel wasn't released until

16:10

ten o'clock that

16:11

night. I was like, man, call down that

16:13

Asia has some records or something, man. I was locked

16:15

up. I know I was locked up on that day. I

16:17

said, I got locked up of fighting that day.

16:20

But no one listened. I'm

16:22

Phoebe Judge. This is criminal. We'll

16:33

be right back.

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18:53

In December of nineteen ninety

18:54

two, seventeen year old Daniel

18:56

Taylor was charged along with seven other

18:58

young black men. And and they charged

19:02

they charged us all with murder.

19:05

Eight of us. Tell me

19:07

about the trial. How long did

19:09

you wait before the trial? The

19:12

trial took maybe three years

19:14

two years and and two

19:17

years, that's a

19:17

month. Daniel

19:20

says he felt hopeful because the judge

19:22

had granted him a bond. So he didn't

19:24

have to spend that whole time waiting in jail.

19:26

The judge gave me a a

19:28

ban on a double murder home

19:30

invasion. That

19:33

doesn't happen. So

19:37

at that point, I'm thinking, like, okay.

19:39

He got the he got to know that, you know,

19:41

I ain't do this. You know, he

19:43

got to

19:44

notice. I didn't do not. I had not done to do with

19:46

this.

19:47

Were were you each tried individually?

19:51

No. We would try jointly,

19:54

but we were broke up into, like, teams.

19:56

It was, like, two guys,

19:59

it was eight of us altogether, so they broke

20:01

it up in twos. And

20:05

I ended up going to trial with

20:08

Dennis Mixon. What

20:11

was the evidence that the prosecution

20:13

had against you? That

20:16

confession. That's

20:19

it. No witnesses, no

20:21

fingerprints, nothing. Not.

20:26

They still gonna get up there and

20:29

give that speech that you did

20:31

it. Did

20:33

your lawyer at any point saying, wait,

20:35

no. No. No. He was in jail at the time

20:37

this happened. Did anyone bring up the fact

20:39

that that was impossible for you to commit

20:41

the murder because you you were

20:44

you were behind bars.

20:45

Yes. That that was brought up through the whole

20:48

process that I was locked up. When

20:51

when they found out I was locked up and

20:53

stated them doing the right thing, which was

20:55

to let me go, they

20:57

they tripled down. They

21:00

had officer sent

21:02

in a report months

21:04

later saying he's seen

21:07

me at a certain

21:07

time. It's

21:09

it's if if if was

21:15

It was it was it was it was

21:17

it was crazy.

21:20

The prosecution presented testimony from

21:22

police officer, Sean Glinski,

21:25

who

21:26

along with officer Michael Birdie, had

21:28

filed a report claiming that they had seen

21:30

Daniel Taylor on a street near where the

21:32

murders took place around nine thirty.

21:36

Nine thirty was about forty five minutes

21:38

after the murders, and half an

21:40

hour before records indicated the

21:43

day now had been released from police custody

21:45

for disorderly conduct. Officer

21:49

Glensky testified that he had heard about

21:51

a shooting on his police radio and

21:53

that after he arrived to the area, he

21:55

and other officers followed a young person

21:58

who was running into an apartment. That

22:01

was the apartment of Cookie Phillips, where

22:03

Daniel Taylor had been staying. According

22:07

to officer Glensky, he left the apartment

22:10

and ran into Daniel. He

22:12

testified that he asked Daniel

22:14

to help him find one of Queenie Phillips

22:16

sons, which he said Daniel

22:18

did. And that they drove around

22:20

for ten or fifteen minutes before

22:23

dropping Daniel off at the emergency

22:25

shelter. Daniel's

22:28

defense attorneys presented proof that

22:31

Daniel was in police custody at the

22:33

time of the murders, testimony

22:35

from people who were on duty that night

22:38

and the bomb slip indicating that

22:40

Daniel was locked up until ten

22:42

PM. But

22:45

the prosecution suggested that

22:47

that was simply a paperwork error.

22:49

That the bond slip could have been completed

22:52

after Daniel had already left. And

22:54

stamped with the wrong time. When

22:58

you were sitting there in

23:00

the courtroom hearing police officers

23:03

say this stuff that you weren't in you

23:06

weren't mocked up at the time. How

23:08

did you keep yourself calm?

23:12

Certain certain aspects of trial.

23:17

They use vocabulary that's

23:20

beyond or that was beyond my

23:22

vocabulary. Because

23:25

they say things like, as to the

23:27

day that Taylor that you've seen Taylor,

23:30

juts and then they have paused and just I would like to enter

23:32

evidence and they have blah blah blah the number and

23:35

and the code for it. And then

23:37

they go back and say, I would like to call

23:39

your attention to such and such day. And

23:42

do you recollect that

23:43

day? And I'm like, you know, recollect?

23:47

I I didn't know what that word meant.

23:51

So I'm I you know, I ended up sitting

23:54

in trial, just looking And

23:56

what was what was going on more so than

23:58

what was being

23:59

said? Because

24:01

I

24:01

couldn't understand it. Was

24:04

your family there? Was anybody there

24:06

supporting you? Not

24:09

all the time. My little brother he

24:12

came to court a few times.

24:15

But outside of him coming, it was

24:17

not to have any any family

24:20

there.

24:21

What do you remember about the jury? Anything?

24:25

The jury is I

24:28

I don't I don't really remember much about

24:30

them. I do remember jury

24:32

selections for some reason

24:35

because I'm gonna how the jury

24:38

selection is done is And

24:41

the the questions that's asked, like, it was

24:43

one juror that the the judge asked,

24:45

and the judge said, do you believe

24:47

that as Taylor sits there, that he is innocent?

24:50

And must be proven guilty. And

24:52

so this lady says, yes, I believe

24:55

that he's innocent until proven guilty. But

24:57

if I also get up there and say that he did

24:59

something that he did it, I'm gonna convict

25:02

them. And I'm like, wait.

25:04

You don't wait. That don't sound alright.

25:07

And but the judge was

25:09

questioned. So we were sitting at

25:11

just, you know, looking at the whole thing unfold.

25:13

And it just informed

25:16

her like, no, that is not how it worked. You

25:18

can't not do that. You have to

25:20

listen to the evidence and

25:22

make a decision based off the evidence,

25:24

the totality of the evidence, not

25:26

just because the officer said he did it.

25:29

She believed the police no matter what.

25:32

No matter what, she would not be

25:34

in the fold 208 to

25:36

follow the law in that aspect. And

25:38

so she was not chosen. That's

25:41

just something that always stuck with me because it's

25:43

like how

25:46

can you just you know, I'm

25:48

not trying to make this erased thing, but it was a

25:51

it was a it was a black woman that

25:53

just could not for any reason.

25:58

Look at evidence and make a

25:59

decision, but that is the police he

26:02

say that I did it. She was ready

26:04

to convict

26:04

me. And

26:07

I think that's why I remember that moment so

26:09

much. The way that I do.

26:15

We'll be right back.

26:31

Hi. It's Phoebe. If you're

26:33

looking for an investigative series to listen

26:35

to then you should check out a podcast

26:37

I've really enjoyed. Baer Brook

26:40

produced by New Hampshire public radio. Five

26:43

years ago, the first season of Baer Brook was named

26:45

one of the best true crime podcast by Vulture.

26:48

Now, the show's back with a new season

26:50

and a new case. In

26:52

nineteen eighty nine, New Hampshire police charged

26:54

three men in the murder of a pregnant woman,

26:57

but only nineteen year old Jason Carol

26:59

was convicted. Now

27:01

Carol is serving life in prison for a murder,

27:03

he says he didn't commit. And the

27:05

only evidence against him is his own

27:07

taped confession. Hosted

27:10

by award winning reporter Jason Moon, Baerbrook,

27:12

is some of the best investigative reporting in

27:15

the true crime space today. Listen

27:17

to season two of Bear Brook on Apple Podcasts

27:19

Spotify or wherever you get your

27:21

podcasts. During

27:25

Daniel Taylor's trial, prosecutors

27:28

didn't present any physical evidence against

27:30

him. There wasn't any.

27:32

None of the fingerprints at the scene matched his,

27:35

none of the DNA matched, and there

27:37

was no murder weapon. The

27:40

prosecution spent a lot of time working to

27:42

show that Daniel Taylor could have

27:44

been at the crime scene and not in police

27:46

custody at the time of the murders. They

27:49

put police officer Sean Glinski

27:51

on the stand to testify

27:53

that he'd seen and even spoken to Daniel,

27:56

near where the murders had happened. But

27:59

Daniel's defense attorney showed that

28:01

the paperwork filed by officer Guinsky

28:04

and officer Michael Birdie claiming

28:06

that they'd seen Daniel. Had

28:08

been submitted one month after

28:10

the murders,

28:12

and just under two weeks after

28:14

Daniel's confession. And

28:16

that it had not been signed off on

28:18

by a supervisor. Daniel's

28:22

lawyer told the jury, There

28:24

isn't one reasonable doubt in this case.

28:27

The whole case is one big doubt.

28:31

The jury only deliberated for a few

28:33

hours. One

28:36

juror later told the reporter, quote,

28:39

a couple people were skeptical for maybe

28:41

a couple minutes. But once we figured

28:43

it out, it was pretty easy. Another

28:47

said, quote, the only

28:49

piece that didn't seem to fit was that stuff

28:51

that he'd been in jail at the time. He

28:54

could have walked out the back door for all we knew.

29:00

There was a juror. There

29:02

was a interview. And

29:05

he they

29:08

were axed. He was axed what

29:10

was like the defining moment that

29:13

that made you, you know, feel like Taylor

29:15

was guilty. The

29:18

response and I might be off a

29:20

word or two was basically they

29:22

believed that was released early that

29:24

night. Now

29:26

imagine, late theory was I

29:29

was released early or

29:32

I snuck out. Now imagine I'm

29:34

seventeen, just May seventeen. I'm

29:36

I'm a couple of months into being seventeen.

29:40

And I'm in I'm locked up in the police station

29:42

for a fight. And he's telling these people

29:44

that I snuck

29:47

out, killed

29:49

two people, and

29:51

snuck back in without being seen

29:54

or spotted. A

29:57

seventeen year old, who you

30:00

who shoe strings you took, who belts

30:02

you took, so that he may not harm

30:04

himself. Snuck out

30:06

to go kill two people and snuck back in so

30:08

I could face the fight charge.

30:10

That doesn't make any sense. You

30:13

go sneak out to go do something that horrible,

30:15

but sneak back in. That

30:18

anybody will sneak back in. If if you're saying

30:20

I'm smart enough, to sneak out

30:22

of here without being seen, spotted, or

30:24

any damage being reported by the seal,

30:27

inside the seal. That I

30:29

got to be some kind of genius. So

30:31

if you've given me that much credit to be able to sneak

30:34

out, why not give me the rest of the credit

30:36

not come back? But

30:38

I but I I pulled this snuck back in.

30:42

Like, I I snuck back in.

30:44

Really? Daniel

30:48

Taylor was sentenced to life in

30:49

prison. He was nineteen. That

30:52

was the day that I really

30:55

lost connection

30:57

with the world physically.

31:01

Emotionally, mentally. Like

31:04

I really believe that that day,

31:07

I found out what existing

31:10

means. And not living that

31:13

every day. There's

31:16

there's so many things going through my mind.

31:22

One of them being is just total

31:24

shutdown. And when I'm being total

31:26

shutdown, everything that

31:28

I can think of came Russian to me.

31:31

And at a split second, it's just vanished.

31:34

And I felt

31:36

nothing. I could connect to

31:38

nothing. I couldn't understand how

31:40

for the things people were saying once I left.

31:44

I was sitting there trying to watch TV when I

31:46

got back to the deck that I was on.

31:49

I took a shove, changed

31:52

from out of the court clothes into

31:55

the prison clothes. And

31:58

I went out to what's called a day room and I

32:00

sat there and I tried to watch the TV and

32:02

you know how you can get into a show or a movie,

32:05

I felt zero, nothing.

32:09

Nothing. I couldn't focus. It

32:15

it was it was it was a pain. That

32:18

just made me dull, unfocused,

32:20

like, I just couldn't connect to anything or

32:22

anyone. Were

32:25

you scared knowing that you're going to prison

32:27

nineteen years old, someone

32:30

who'd been convicted of two

32:33

murders? I was more so scared.

32:36

Of

32:38

the natural life that they gave me. So

32:40

having to serve the rest

32:42

of my natural life in

32:45

prison. I was more afraid of that

32:48

than the actual jail itself in

32:51

that aspect. To

32:54

never again never

32:56

again just get up and

32:59

walk out the house because I feel like it.

33:01

I was more afraid of that in

33:04

that aspect. When

33:09

they transferred me from Cook County to

33:12

Jolly s Prison, Most

33:17

of the time they have, like, it looked like a school

33:19

bus and you're in the seat

33:21

and they got your hands cuffed up. I

33:24

wasn't on that kind of bus. I was on a I

33:26

was in a van, and they hit

33:28

me shackle from around my waist to

33:31

my hands, my feet was shackle. And

33:33

they had this, like, doggy chain that's

33:36

looped around my

33:38

waist and they hold on to that,

33:40

like like you a dog. And

33:44

when they put me in the van, I was cuffed

33:46

to the floor of that van. And

33:51

again, I'm my hands, I chatted together,

33:53

also my feet, I chatted together.

33:55

And the chain that he was using

33:57

to hold me or

34:00

to walk me, if you will, that

34:02

was chained to the floor. And

34:06

I was driven to Jolly Asprism like

34:08

that. And at

34:10

that very moment, I knew that

34:12

the type of time I had was different

34:15

than what those guys that was getting on those,

34:17

like school buses had. They

34:19

had out dates. I didn't

34:21

have one,

34:23

and that realization sucked in.

34:27

So quick. Next

34:32

time, how Daniel Taylor finally

34:34

got someone to listen to him. Criminalist

34:40

created by Lauren Spohr, and me.

34:43

Katie Wilson is our senior producer. Katie

34:46

Bishop is our supervising producer. Our

34:48

producers are Susannah Robertson, Jackie

34:51

Sedgico, Libby Foster, Lilly

34:53

Clark, Lena Sillison, and Meghan

34:55

Canine. Our technical directors

34:57

were our buyers, engineering by Russ

34:59

Henry. Drilling Alexander

35:02

makes original illustrations for each episode

35:04

of Criminal, you can see them at

35:06

this is criminal dot com. If

35:09

you like the show, tell a friend or leave

35:11

us a review. It means a lot.

35:14

We're on Facebook and Twitter at criminal

35:16

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35:18

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35:21

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35:23

take a listen to some of our favorite past

35:25

episodes. That's at youtube dot

35:27

com slash criminal podcast. I'm

35:30

Phoebe Judge, This is criminal.

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