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in all states and situations. Trevail,

1:27

how are you? I'm

1:29

well, I'm well. I'm very grateful

1:32

and I'm happy to be talking to

1:34

you. On this side. On

1:37

this side. How long have you been out?

1:41

Well today will be like a little under

1:43

a month. Thursday

1:45

will be a full month, a full four

1:47

weeks. Last

1:51

month, Trevail Coleman was released from prison

1:54

after nearly 14 years. We

1:58

first met him at Fishkill Correctional Facility. last

2:00

summer. In 1993,

2:02

when he was 18 years old, he

2:05

shot a man three times in Harlem. And

2:08

I didn't plan on actually doing

2:10

anything. I just had a gun.

2:13

And I was riding around, and you know,

2:15

I happened to see a guy,

2:17

you know what I mean? And I

2:20

was like, okay, well, you know,

2:23

you know, maybe I could just

2:25

rob this guy, you know. Trevor

2:28

Vell rode away on his bicycle without knowing

2:30

what had happened to the man. For

2:32

years and years, he didn't tell anyone about

2:34

that night. The police never

2:37

suspected him. We

2:39

shared Trevor's story in two episodes we

2:42

released last fall. They're called

2:44

the confession part one and two. Trevor

2:48

told us that he always thought about the man

2:50

he'd shot. And 17 years

2:53

after the shooting, Trevor walked into a

2:55

police station and turned himself in.

2:58

He was 36. You

3:00

know, I started thinking about it more and more.

3:03

I'm like, well, look, you know,

3:05

if anything did happen, you

3:07

know, that, you know, that will be, you know, I

3:09

just felt like that was the only way, you

3:12

know, I can, I can resolve it. You know

3:15

what I mean? Like, I just thought about, well,

3:17

if I send myself in, I can find out

3:20

what happened to him. And if something did happen,

3:22

then here we go. You know what I mean?

3:24

And then I could kind of move on. Whatever,

3:28

you know, whatever happens after that, you

3:30

know. Because you didn't know if

3:32

he was alive or dead. No, I didn't.

3:34

I didn't know. You know, I,

3:36

you know, after a while, you

3:39

know, I told myself he was, he was all

3:41

right. You know, but I

3:43

still didn't know, you know, I didn't

3:46

know, I didn't know for sure. Well,

3:48

did it get to a point where even

3:52

though if he had died,

3:54

you knew that you would be going to prison

3:56

for a very long time, it

3:58

didn't matter anymore. It didn't

4:01

matter. It was like, it

4:04

is what it is at that point. That's how I

4:06

looked at it. Like whatever happens, you know, this is

4:08

it. After

4:12

he turned himself in, he learned that

4:14

the man he had shot had died. His

4:16

name was John Hengel. Trevel

4:19

Coleman was sentenced to prison, 15 years

4:22

to life. Trevel's

4:24

lawyer, Steve Zeitmann. You

4:26

know, I've heard of people turning themselves

4:28

in, but it's usually soon

4:31

thereafter the crime, or it's

4:33

somebody who knows law enforcement is looking for

4:35

them. What makes this

4:37

entirely unique is that Trevel

4:40

was never a suspect in the first place. So

4:43

no, I've never experienced anything like someone coming

4:45

forward 17 years after the fact.

4:47

So no, this is absolutely extraordinary. When

4:51

we last spoke with Trevel and Steve, they

4:54

had submitted a clemency application, and

4:56

we're waiting to hear from the governor's office. And

4:59

then in December of last year, Steve

5:02

got a phone call. Getting

5:04

that call from the governor, from my perspective,

5:06

it's hard

5:09

to put in words because clemency is so

5:11

rarely granted, even in

5:13

as compelling a case as Trevel's. So

5:16

when the call comes, you know, there have been times they've actually said to

5:18

me, take a seat. We have some good news for you.

5:21

This was one of those moments. Trevel

5:24

was being granted clemency. That

5:29

feeling right there was probably more concentrated than

5:33

actually getting out, because at

5:36

that point, you know, we

5:38

were anticipating something good happening, but

5:40

then again, you have these doubts, like, well,

5:43

maybe not, you know, no, you know what

5:45

I mean? So it was kind of like a, you know,

5:47

kind of a roller coaster of emotions that

5:49

I was going through at that time. And so it was like a

5:51

weight was lifted type of thing. You

5:53

know what I mean? They

6:00

can, the governor has the power to commute a

6:02

sentence and basically say, you're going home tomorrow. Or

6:05

they can do what they did in Chevelle's case.

6:07

They can say, we're reducing your sentence to make

6:09

you immediately eligible to see the parole board. So

6:12

I was thrilled to hear the news that Clemency

6:14

was granted. I was not so happy to hear

6:16

that he wasn't immediately going home because the parole

6:19

board is never, you know, you can't guarantee that.

6:23

Tell me a little bit about what,

6:27

you heard that Clemency was going to be granted and

6:29

then you were going to have to go in front

6:31

of the parole board. What did

6:33

you have to do to prepare to go in

6:35

front of the parole board? Was that meetings between

6:37

both of you, kind of what are we going

6:40

to say, what's our case here? Yeah,

6:43

the process of preparing for the parole board, it's pretty

6:45

daunting. Chevelle

6:47

and I met, we talked about the

6:49

interview, we exchanged a lot of emails

6:51

about what to expect, what

6:53

are the trickier questions, what are the hard questions,

6:56

how do you respond. I know Chevelle on the inside working

6:59

with other, with peers. There was

7:01

a parole preparation workshop run by the men

7:03

inside, but it's gathering materials to

7:06

give to the board to make the best case

7:08

possible, keeping your fingers crossed that

7:10

you don't get some of the parole board commissioners

7:12

who are unlikely to release anybody,

7:14

frankly. Once you get

7:16

a parole board date, it's just a matter of chance

7:18

about who are going to be the parole commissioners. And

7:21

remember, this is on video, it's not in person. There's

7:23

supposed to be three parole board members, often there are

7:25

just two. And not

7:28

a lot of notice about who's going to be in

7:31

front. So you can only prepare so much. From my

7:33

perspective, I prepare for the worst. By the worst, I

7:35

mean the commissioners who are going to ask, frankly,

7:37

what I think are ridiculous questions. You know, why

7:39

do you deserve parole? What would you say to

7:41

the victim's family? Those sorts of questions, which there

7:43

really is no good answer as far as they're

7:45

concerned. So you try and

7:47

prepare, you go through every possible permutation and then

7:50

trying to make sure that Chevelle feels as ready

7:52

as he possibly can.

7:56

I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. And

8:09

are you thinking the whole time, if this doesn't go

8:11

well, we've got one shot

8:14

here. You know, it's interesting

8:16

you say that. When Treville got

8:18

clemency and was made

8:20

immediately eligible to see the parole board, there

8:23

are a bunch of folks saying, well, the governor gave him

8:25

clemency. Of course, the parole board is going to, you know,

8:27

grant release, which to me is like, that

8:29

anybody would just assume that, it's a little frightening.

8:32

So you see the board, if you're denied, they can

8:34

set your next interview two years down the road. If

8:36

you're denied then, they can set your next interview two

8:38

years after that. So the stakes remained real

8:41

high. So it's not as though, okay,

8:43

we'll be back next week. Correct. We'll take another

8:45

number, we'll wait, it's years,

8:48

potentially, of life. There have been people who

8:50

have been denied parole 10, 12, 14 times.

8:54

One of the first people I ever worked with,

8:56

within 44 years. On

8:58

a 25 to life sentence, he'd been denied parole 14

9:00

times. The

9:03

day of the parole hearing, Treville was

9:05

brought to a building at Fishkill. The

9:07

parole hearing would take place over a video

9:10

call. While you were

9:12

waiting to be called, were you with other people who

9:14

were going up against the parole board

9:16

that day? Yeah. Well,

9:19

yes, it was about 10 of

9:21

us. Did you talk beforehand?

9:24

Yeah, we talked. A

9:26

lot of it was nervous chatter. You know what I'm saying? We

9:28

were just consoling each other.

9:31

Not consoling each other, but just helping

9:35

each other get through it. Yo, man, don't worry about

9:38

it. You know, you should be all right. You know,

9:40

one of those things. Yo, look, I don't know how

9:42

long you've been in. Oh, man, don't worry about it.

9:45

You know, stuff like that. You

9:47

know, it was a couple of guys there

9:49

that I actually knew that I actually worked with.

9:52

So we sat there and talked, you know. How

9:55

does it actually work? I mean, Treville,

9:59

what? happened during the

10:01

hearing? Steve, you were there on

10:03

Zoom or? No, you can't have

10:05

anybody present. Treville's there on his

10:07

own. I was just there. I

10:09

was, uh, you go in a room

10:12

and you go, you sit down

10:15

and you're right in front of like a TV,

10:18

probably about that big, and

10:20

then the people pop up and

10:23

they pan around and they introduce everybody.

10:25

And then when they usually

10:28

have one central person to ask all

10:30

the questions. Were you nervous?

10:33

Yeah, I was nervous because, you know, I

10:36

mean, you know, it was, it

10:38

was just intimidating. I never experienced anything like

10:40

that. You know, I didn't, I

10:42

didn't know if I was going to say the wrong thing.

10:44

I didn't know, you know, I didn't know the temperature of,

10:46

you know, how those things

10:48

work. You know what I mean? Do you

10:50

remember the first thing they asked you? I

10:53

think that the first thing I asked me was, uh, how

10:55

do I see, like, how

10:58

do I, how do I think I'm different

11:00

now? I think that was one

11:02

of the first questions because when I first sat down,

11:05

they, they, they just kind of just

11:07

ran down everything. Like they were talking,

11:10

you know what I mean? They didn't, they didn't like ask

11:12

me anything. They just was like, Oh, okay.

11:14

You didn't know your Treville Coleman and, um,

11:17

is that correct? You know, I think that

11:19

was the first question. I was like, yes.

11:21

And then they decided, so you, you committed

11:23

this crime this day and this and that.

11:26

And they start when they went on and

11:28

on. But then, you know,

11:30

that was the first question. They said, so why do

11:32

you, how do you

11:34

think you're different now? What did,

11:36

do you remember what you said? I mean, I

11:38

just told them that I was a follower

11:41

back then, you know, and, um, you

11:43

know, I've learned to be more of

11:45

an individual these days and I understand,

11:47

uh, that I had to have a

11:50

more righteous direction in order to live,

11:52

you know, unlike, you know, I

11:54

was living, you know what I mean? And I

11:56

understood that. Treville

11:58

told them about what he would do. if he got

12:00

out. He wanted to get a job and

12:02

work on his music. When

12:05

it was over, how did

12:07

you feel like it went? Were you

12:09

still nervous? I

12:11

was. I was nervous because I wasn't

12:14

nervous. I was uncertain. I didn't know, you know,

12:16

at that point, you know, no,

12:18

they don't, they don't give you any indication of what

12:20

they're going to do. They're just okay,

12:23

you know, all right, good. Thanks for, thanks for

12:25

coming today. And I saw,

12:28

you know, I knew a couple of guys that went in

12:30

there and, you know, it seemed like they did well, you

12:32

know what I mean? And then they wind up, you know,

12:34

telling me later, like, yo, man, I didn't, yeah, I didn't

12:36

make it. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't know.

12:39

I was, I didn't know what to think.

12:41

You know what I mean? I was like, you

12:43

know, all I could do was wonder. And,

12:46

but all, the only thing that did

12:48

help me get through that, those long,

12:50

long seven days, they

12:53

said, we'll be, we'll be getting back to you

12:55

early next week. And this was maybe a Wednesday.

12:58

She said, she said, she said, we'll be getting back to you

13:00

early next week. So, you know, the first thing I thought, Monday,

13:03

I should have an answer. You know

13:05

what I mean? So that's what kind of helped me get

13:07

through the weekend. I said, okay, Monday, we'll

13:11

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Try gift mode on Etsy now. Steve,

15:29

you knew the day that Trevel is going

15:31

up against the board. Were you differently,

15:34

of course, but in the same

15:36

way thinking, oh, what's going to

15:39

happen, what's going to happen? Kind of on

15:41

pins and needles. Very nervous, very anxious. And

15:43

you know, the thing about it too is

15:46

a case like Trevel's, because it

15:48

was because of who he is in

15:51

the high profile nature, that

15:53

adds an extra element of concern because

15:55

ultimately, whether it's the governor, the parole board, they know

15:58

that their decision is going to be public. It's

16:00

going to be scrutinized. It's going to be in the media. And

16:03

in the back of my mind, I just kept being

16:05

fearful that somehow that was going to

16:07

tip the scale in the wrong way.

16:09

Were you trying to be positive, though, to Trevele?

16:11

Were you trying to not let your quiet

16:14

fears show? Yeah, always, always. Remember the last time

16:16

we saw each other, just saying, and I know

16:18

it sounds like a cliché, but you know, you

16:21

got this. He had the answers to

16:23

every question. We really didn't even prepare that much.

16:26

And it's also the way people come across. And I

16:28

know that that's subjective for all of us. But

16:32

I mean, some people come

16:34

across as just thoughtful, mature,

16:36

humble. And to me, that

16:39

matters to the pro board, whether it should or not is a

16:41

whole other thing. But yeah, confident.

16:44

And you know, trying to convey confidence and

16:46

keep some of my own fears to myself.

16:50

You know, just because with each passing day, there are two ways

16:52

to think about it. You know, you're thinking, okay, is it with

16:54

each passing day, is that good or bad? You

16:56

know, there was a way in which I was hoping, okay,

16:58

this was Wednesday, Friday, they should just let you know, Friday

17:00

you got parole. And then when we didn't hear Friday, that

17:02

kind of made me a little concerned. Trevele,

17:05

did you did everyone know that you had

17:07

gone up against the parole board? You know,

17:09

your friends were with everyone kind of waiting

17:12

along with you to hear what was going

17:14

to happen? I mean, inside,

17:16

not outside. I mean, of course,

17:18

outside, but yeah, well, yeah, or inside, you

17:20

know, just the people that I dealt

17:22

with, like the people in my unit, you know, I mean, it's

17:25

not just the people that I dealt with. It's kind

17:27

of a big thing when you go to the parole,

17:29

when you're inside, because everybody knows with

17:32

time, it's a certain week

17:34

when everybody goes to parole.

17:36

So, you know, I like ran

17:38

into a couple people while I was walking over

17:41

there. So people know that you're going to parole,

17:43

you know, so. Did the guards

17:45

know? Did you speak to any of

17:47

the guards about what was happening? Yeah, some of

17:49

them. Like I said, there's no, there's really no

17:51

secrets in prison, you know, that

17:53

even the guys know, yeah, I heard you went

17:55

to parole the other day. Good luck, you know,

17:58

stuff like that. You know, it was most mostly.

18:00

supported. On the

18:02

Tuesday after his parole hearing April 2nd,

18:05

Treville was called into an office at

18:07

Fishkill and you didn't know

18:09

when they just said come down here

18:11

you'd know it could have been... Yeah it

18:13

could have been bad. So the thing is

18:15

it's true that now I know it's not

18:18

really a legend you know what I mean?

18:20

They in prison they say if you get

18:22

when you go in the office if

18:25

you get a small envelope if the envelope is really

18:27

really thin if you see it and they get in

18:29

they hand you that then you

18:31

probably coming home you know I mean but

18:33

if you get a thick envelope that

18:36

means it has all your stipulations the reason why they

18:38

denied you and all of this stuff in there so

18:40

if you see a thick envelope

18:42

like kind of like

18:44

understand what's getting ready to happen you know and

18:47

I kind of saw someone at desk you know so

18:49

I'm like oh I didn't know which one was mine

18:52

you know what I mean so I'm like ahh man

18:54

so then so that I sat down and

18:58

then the ladies she said she she like

19:00

reached over and look at my envelope was

19:02

like super thin like I was like wait

19:04

a minute this might be good

19:06

right here you know so I opened it and

19:09

you know and first I really didn't know what I was reading

19:11

and she said she said um all right

19:13

go to the second page and

19:15

I went and I'm looking you know I expected

19:17

it to have like you know old

19:20

letters like a broom all right

19:23

so I was like you know so I just

19:25

like was looking and what I saw was a

19:27

date and I saw the date so I

19:29

looked at the date and I really couldn't believe what I was

19:31

reading I was like how come it's

19:34

a 429 24 and she was like that's

19:37

that's what it says you made it she obviously

19:39

she was you know according to her she didn't

19:42

know what the result was

19:44

you know but she said um well

19:46

that means you made it you know what I mean I

19:48

was that oh really so I was like wow I said

19:50

praise the creator and she said yeah

19:52

I mean you know you made some good decisions you know

19:55

so congratulations What

20:01

was that walk back

20:04

to your unit like? Just

20:07

talking about it is like I got a

20:09

little jump, you know, butterfly,

20:12

you know, it was the feeling was

20:15

just so liberating, like, you know, I

20:17

was able to walk and look at, you know, in fish

20:19

care, you can look at the highway when you're walking by

20:22

and it's just, it was

20:24

like, wow. You know what I mean? But

20:30

the funny thing about jail is, unless

20:33

you're walking out the gate, you're

20:35

still like, I'm still in jail, you

20:37

know. The only

20:40

thing that was going through my mind was like, I still

20:42

have to wait 25 more days, you

20:45

know, so I'm like, okay. The

20:48

part that then became a little sticky, and

20:50

this is where corrections and government

20:52

officials can be a little cavalier about

20:54

time, because they had the

20:56

time, the release stayed wrong. Technically,

21:00

Treville was eligible for immediate

21:02

release, but that's not what

21:04

the paperwork said. And

21:06

to try and get someone to pay attention, because their first

21:08

response is, hey, the guy got paroled. Good enough. This is

21:10

great, he's going home in a couple weeks, everything is good,

21:12

what do you need us to look

21:15

into? So it wasn't done yet, you saw that

21:17

and said, okay, well, now we have to fix this. It's not,

21:19

you know, it's from my perspective, and this is

21:21

an outsider looking in, it's not done until you

21:23

walk out the gate. And I

21:26

tell family members, you can't, don't exhale completely,

21:28

Clemency is beautiful, celebrate, but we're not

21:30

there yet. The parole board, the interview, it looks like

21:32

it went well, not there, and even when you

21:34

get the letter saying you're going home, until

21:36

you walk out, until you walk

21:39

out, then you can exhale,

21:41

then you can fully celebrate. You

21:44

know, that day, everybody that went to the parole

21:46

board, you know, I saw them, we were all

21:48

going, they all called us all at the same

21:50

time, so people were, you know, coming

21:52

from wherever they were coming from, but you saw them with

21:54

their papers in their hands, some of them were looking sad,

21:56

some of them were, You

21:58

know, you could tell that they made. Me.

22:00

So for me when I got back

22:02

in I was I was I was

22:04

overjoyed Been on a me with then

22:06

so when I got back. Steve.

22:10

My daughter and my wife and

22:12

first a people email to email

22:14

them. Sent. It out in

22:17

a coma mother and as soon as

22:19

he told me she said look if

22:21

you give road don't call me as

22:23

say you know gives his long drawn

22:25

out thing is is sad you know.

22:28

A lead my guy you know a

22:30

place he says say quickly like this

22:32

call me is say i'm coming home

22:34

you not a result was she when

22:37

our cause it as the we would

22:39

i didn't Assassin losses speakerphone up as

22:41

she knew some was that because animal

22:43

alone usually call her for eleven thirty

22:45

in on this is like was one

22:47

nine dirty is that you know south

22:50

cause she sells going on I said

22:52

mom and I was always give it

22:54

a draw it out to and aus

22:56

our noses as our. Come out

22:58

Diseases! I have screamed so

23:01

loud This we just last

23:03

is is he knows this

23:05

is Joyce Cases. We'll.

23:09

Be right. Thanks

23:22

to progress for this. One

23:25

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23:27

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25:23

The mistake that had been made with his release date

25:25

had been fixed. I

25:51

mean, that's why things happen so fast. Is when

25:53

they finally realized that they said, okay, wait a

25:55

minute, he's going home Thursday. Oh,

25:57

I never really knew what happened. Who

26:00

was there when you walked out of the

26:03

gate? My mother

26:06

was there, my ex-wife, my

26:08

sons, my aunt, a

26:11

friend of mine that drove her up there, my brother.

26:14

What was that drive up to Fish Kill

26:17

Light? Before it even

26:19

came out, what were you all talking about?

26:21

We were like a

26:24

kid the day before Christmas.

26:26

It was such excitement. Corvel's

26:30

brother, Coron. That's

26:32

all we could talk about. We would

26:35

stop talking about it for 30 minutes

26:37

to try to change the subject, but

26:39

would somehow get right back

26:42

to the joy of knowing that

26:44

he would be home soon. What

26:47

was it like to be able to be with your brother

26:49

freely? Not

26:52

in a visiting room, not in anyone monitoring

26:54

what you were saying or what you

26:56

should or shouldn't do. It's the best

26:58

feeling in the world. We're

27:02

right now in the process of building

27:04

a relationship as two

27:06

grown men with kids. I

27:11

was a teenager when he went away.

27:16

He was going through everything that he was

27:18

going through, so we wasn't as close back

27:20

then. Now that

27:22

we're both free and

27:24

grown and able to just

27:26

build a new relationship,

27:29

it means the

27:32

world. Did

27:35

it feel surreal driving away? Yes. It

27:39

felt like ... Because I had drove down

27:41

that same road plenty of times, like going

27:43

to a trip or going

27:45

to medical trips. That's the only

27:48

time we really leave the facility. The

27:51

ride down that same road,

27:53

knowing I'm not coming back,

27:55

knowing that I'm not coming

28:00

I don't have to come back that day. Stuff

28:03

like that, it was definitely surreal. Steve,

28:08

what is it like knowing that Trevel

28:10

is out now, home?

28:13

Well, Trevel, I mentioned this to him.

28:15

There's a group called the Clemency Collective,

28:17

which is 22 people who received clemency.

28:19

And there's a planned meeting to kind

28:21

of welcome the newest member of the

28:24

collective. So which makes everybody pretty excited.

28:26

But the other part of it is,

28:28

and this is not to put a burden, I'm saying

28:31

this with Trevel right here, but to

28:34

the extent that it fits within his life to be sort

28:36

of a spokesperson when the time

28:38

comes for clemency, for what

28:40

it meant for him, for what it means for

28:42

others. I'll

28:45

say this other part too, when he got clemency,

28:48

word spread so fast. And

28:51

I don't mean just, I mean everywhere actually, but

28:53

in the legal community, people knew about it, the

28:55

governor's office obviously knew that he got parole. So

28:59

it sent a message, because he's

29:01

known to people, right? And so

29:03

him getting clemency, him making parole, it reverberates.

29:06

My hope is it opens the door a little bit for

29:08

others. Have

29:12

these past four weeks been what you expected

29:14

them to be, Ben? What you thought about

29:16

they would be when, two years ago or

29:18

three years ago, you were thinking if there's a day

29:20

when I'm out, has it lived up to what

29:22

you thought it would be? Yes,

29:24

I could say yes. I'm not gonna,

29:28

I really didn't think about going home

29:30

a lot, because

29:32

I just, that's just not healthy

29:35

to do when you, in there

29:37

because you start thinking and you start getting

29:39

anxious and, so

29:42

I tried to just, from time

29:44

to time, coming home did cross

29:46

my mind, and it was

29:48

just a happy feeling of like,

29:51

wow, maybe one day this will be

29:53

over. So for

29:55

me to come home, it's

29:57

that feeling manifested. So

30:01

I feel the joy that I thought I would

30:03

feel, you know. When

30:05

I first came home, you know,

30:07

it's definitely a difference. You notice

30:09

that, you know, wow, you know, I'm

30:12

able to do certain things, certain liberties of

30:14

the story. But, you know, it's

30:16

kind of like riding a bike. Like you really think, you

30:19

know, you never really forget how it is to

30:21

just be able to just move, you know. What

30:25

was it like to be with your sons and daughter?

30:27

I mean, what, you

30:31

know, you talked about that, you know, being out with

30:33

them. And have you gotten

30:35

to spend a lot of time with them since? I

30:38

mean, I've got to spend not as much time as I

30:40

would like, you know, but like I

30:43

would like to like take a trip with

30:45

them and like go somewhere, you

30:47

know, be able to relax and, you know, wake up and

30:49

be with them again, you know, things like that. But,

30:52

you know, with the curfew that I have in

30:54

the place where I'm staying, it's

30:57

not, you know, that's not really, really possible.

30:59

Like right now, you know, I still got

31:01

to come home every night. I

31:04

mean, come back to that place every night. So

31:06

I haven't had a chance to really like, you

31:08

know, spend nights with them and stuff like that. When

31:11

that trip does happen, where do

31:14

you want to take everyone? I don't

31:16

know. I would like to go with my kids.

31:18

I would like to take them to somewhere fun.

31:21

I'm trying to get away from San Disney World.

31:24

Are they too old for Disney World?

31:27

No, no, nobody's ever told me that.

31:31

I'm probably going to something like that. You know what

31:33

I mean? I want to take

31:35

I want to take them something like that. I also want

31:37

to just experience things with

31:39

them, you know, experience seeing different things.

31:41

It doesn't have to be super

31:44

exciting. Anything just, you

31:46

know, maybe just seeing, you know, certain

31:48

region or, you know, something

31:50

like that. By

32:01

no means do I believe that I am excused

32:03

for taking Mr. Henkel's life. What

32:06

I expect of myself is to be aware

32:08

of the second chance at life I have

32:10

been given, and to be

32:13

an example of love, mercy, truth, and

32:15

forgiveness. Criminal

32:30

is created by Lauren Spore and me.

32:33

Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie

32:35

Bishop is our supervising producer. Our

32:38

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32:40

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32:42

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32:45

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32:48

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32:50

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33:48

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