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required. Visit maxx.com. Criminology

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is a true crime podcast that

1:02

may contain discussion about violent or

1:04

disturbing topics. Listener discretion

1:06

is advised. Hello

1:31

everyone. And

1:38

welcome to episode 295 of

1:41

the Criminology podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

1:44

And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Morford.

1:46

How are you doing, man? I'm

1:48

doing good. I'm getting ready for sports

1:50

weekend here. My son's got baseball games,

1:52

football games. My daughter's got a soccer

1:54

tournament. So it's going to be a

1:57

busy weekend for the Morfords. How about

1:59

you? We're all doing

2:01

great. I just was listening to

2:03

you kind of kick off all

2:05

of those to do Things

2:08

and it really took me back to when my

2:10

kids were young and I know back then there

2:12

were Times where I said, oh my

2:14

gosh I can't believe we have to go here and

2:16

here and here and here and now

2:19

that the kids are Gone

2:21

out of the house off to college. I

2:24

would love to have one of those weekends. So Enjoy

2:27

it man Definitely

2:30

well, let's go ahead and give

2:32

our patreon shoutouts. We had Billy D

2:34

Brown jr Elizabeth

2:36

Morris lunch Liz

2:38

J and Alyssa gruen, so

2:41

that's a lot of great new support.

2:43

We really appreciate it Yeah Thanks so

2:45

much to everyone that takes the time to support the show It

2:47

means a lot to us and if

2:50

you'd like to help the show, you

2:52

can go to patreon.com/criminology So

2:54

we're going to jump right into this week's

2:56

case and we have a very Interesting

2:59

one where a lot of people

3:01

thought they wouldn't see any Resolution

3:04

this case is so fascinating because

3:06

the details surrounding what happened

3:08

would make Someone think that

3:11

this was a case that would easily be

3:13

solved But in reality it

3:15

took two agencies to even realize

3:17

that a crime had in fact

3:20

occurred This is a case that you

3:22

have to hear about to believe the

3:24

murder of Carrie Farver in 2012

3:27

Dave Krupa was living in

3:29

Omaha, Nebraska And working as

3:31

an auto repair shop manager The

3:33

35 year old had recently moved to the

3:35

area from Wisconsin to try and get a

3:37

new fresh start in life after a breakup He

3:40

had two children with Amy Flora But

3:42

they couldn't make the relationship work and

3:44

it was time for something new for him as

3:47

many people know If you've had a steady partner

3:49

and haven't had to date or make connections Trying

3:52

to find and start a new one can be

3:54

intimidating. They told ABC News I

3:57

didn't know how to venture back into the dating tool.

3:59

I felt pretty rusty. So internet dating

4:01

was the way to go. And I

4:04

think about my own situation more pretty

4:06

rusty would be a euphemism.

4:09

I mean, my wife and I have been together

4:11

almost 30 years now. I don't

4:13

even know if internet dating was a thing

4:15

back then. If it was, it

4:18

surely wasn't, you know, to the point that it

4:20

is today. And then my wife's going

4:22

to listen to this and ask me why I'm talking

4:24

about dating again. I'm not

4:27

honey, don't worry. But if

4:29

I had to, for whatever reason, pretty

4:32

rusty would be an understatement

4:34

for sure. I wouldn't even know

4:37

where to start. Yeah. I

4:39

think things have definitely changed since you and

4:41

I got married and, uh, not

4:43

our wife. So yeah, it would definitely be a

4:45

daunting task trying to get back into the dating

4:47

pool. Dave created a

4:50

profile on the internet dating site, plenty

4:52

of fish for months. He messaged with

4:54

different women and even went on a

4:56

few dates with the ones he matched

4:59

with online, but no real

5:01

sparks flew. The dates were

5:03

enjoyable. The women were lovely, but he

5:05

hadn't found anyone he felt like he

5:07

was falling for or had a real

5:09

connection with. At least one woman

5:12

had stayed overnight at his apartment. So

5:14

he was meeting people. He

5:17

was making some connections, but

5:19

after such a long time in

5:21

a serious relationship, he really just

5:23

wanted to have fun too. He

5:26

told the sun.com, I was

5:28

wild and free and I was determined

5:30

to enjoy. I was definitely

5:32

not looking for something serious. One

5:35

day at work, a woman came in with her

5:37

Ford Explorer. Dave found her

5:39

extremely attractive and felt

5:42

like there was a little spark between

5:44

them. When their eyes met, this

5:47

woman was Carrie Farver, a

5:49

37 year old single mother who lived about

5:51

30 miles away across the state line

5:55

in Macedonia, Iowa with

5:57

her son, Max and her mom, Nancy Rainey.

6:00

Dave immediately in their first

6:02

interaction felt something, a

6:04

spark. He told ABC, she's

6:07

showing me something inside the vehicle

6:09

and we're standing there and we're very

6:11

close and there was some

6:13

tension. Dave decided to ask

6:15

Carrie out and she accepted. After

6:18

dinner, on their first date, Carrie ended

6:20

up back at his apartment. They discussed

6:22

what they wanted in the near future. Carrie

6:25

was clear that she wasn't looking for anything

6:27

long term or serious. Dave

6:29

talked to both ABC News and to the

6:31

Sun, saying I felt like I

6:33

hit the jackpot with that. It

6:35

was exactly what Dave wanted. He said I had

6:38

my personal space, but there was someone around when

6:40

I wanted to chat or hang out. That

6:42

was just what I needed at that time in my life.

6:45

As she left Dave's apartment, Carrie

6:47

ended up walking past Shanna Elizabeth Gollyer,

6:49

who went by Liz. She

6:51

was heading to see Dave. He and

6:53

Liz had been seeing each other casually for about

6:55

six months. Liz hadn't told him that

6:58

she was going to drop by that evening. She

7:00

was just picking up a few things she had left from

7:02

the last time she stayed over. Both

7:04

of the women had been okay with casual

7:06

open relationships, but it was still awkward

7:08

to have them pass each other in his hallway. But

7:11

Dave was relieved that they both seemed fine and

7:13

they both kept seeing Dave. So

7:15

it seems like it would be a little

7:18

awkward, this encounter. You're

7:20

seeing two different women. One

7:22

is at your house. One shows up at

7:24

your place to pick

7:27

some things up. Now Dave

7:29

said they both seemed

7:32

fine with casual and

7:34

open relationships. Some

7:36

people are. Some people aren't. Yeah,

7:39

it seems like they all wanted the

7:41

same thing, at least on

7:43

the surface. But I wonder if

7:45

there isn't some kind of jealousy when

7:47

that kind of situation arises when two

7:51

of the people that are dating the same person pass each other, even

7:54

though they set out to have

7:56

an open relationship, no ties, if

7:59

it doesn't. present some kind of jealous

8:02

feelings. Yeah, I think it's

8:04

very hard for jealousy not to creep in,

8:07

no matter what anyone says. They

8:11

may not make it known, but

8:13

for there not to be some type of jealous

8:16

feelings, I think that's pretty tough. On

8:18

November 12th, 2012, Carrie

8:21

spent the night with Dave again. They

8:23

had a great night together and kissed

8:25

each other goodbye in the morning before

8:27

he left, leaving her there. His

8:30

apartment was conveniently

8:34

close to her office, where she worked

8:36

as a computer programmer, so there was

8:38

no point in her heading all the

8:40

way home before going into work. According

8:43

to people.com, the next

8:45

time Dave heard from Carrie later

8:47

that day was when she texted

8:49

him a question. It read, do

8:51

you want to move in together now? This

8:54

surprised Dave, since he

8:56

thought they were on the same page with

8:58

what they wanted out of their relationship. They

9:01

had practically just discussed it, and

9:03

she had been the one to say she

9:06

didn't want anything serious. As

9:08

Dave would later tell ABC, it

9:10

was very left field, because we

9:13

had already talked about that not

9:15

happening. Dave replied with his

9:17

obvious answer, which was that he did

9:19

not want to move in together and

9:21

that he was confused that she would

9:23

even ask. Almost immediately,

9:25

she texted him back angrily,

9:28

fine, I hate you, I'm

9:30

dating someone else, I don't want to

9:33

see you anymore, go away. Dave

9:35

was confused and surprised, but almost

9:38

glad to be done with it if

9:40

things were going to be like that.

9:43

Dave told ABC that at the time he

9:45

was thinking, I don't need this, I

9:47

dodged a bullet. But these angry

9:50

texts from Carrie continued saying

9:52

things like, I hate you,

9:55

you've ruined my life, you're a terrible person. Dave

9:58

explained to ABC, I didn't. know what

10:00

to think. I was blown away.

10:03

Day and night, both Dave's phone and

10:05

the line at the auto shop received

10:08

hanging up calls from a

10:10

blocked number, and he couldn't

10:12

help but think that it was Carrie calling.

10:15

Around this time, those who knew Carrie

10:17

best also began to receive odd messages from

10:19

her. She texted her mom, Nancy,

10:21

and informed her that she had taken a

10:23

job in Kansas. Carrie had been

10:26

diagnosed with bipolar disorder after a long

10:28

battle with depression that began when

10:30

her son Max was born. Nancy

10:32

told ABC that Carrie had been to

10:34

therapy and had taken medication to treat

10:36

the condition. By this point in 2012,

10:39

Carrie's son Max was in high school and

10:41

Carrie was doing very well working at the job of

10:43

her dreams. The sudden change of

10:46

plans was odd, even allowing

10:48

for the possibility of any sudden mental health

10:50

issues. Nancy was worried about this

10:52

text. When she tried to call her

10:54

daughter for more information or clarification, she

10:56

didn't get an answer and never heard back

10:59

from Carrie. When Carrie's

11:01

half-brother's wedding passed with no sign

11:03

of her, Nancy knew something

11:05

was wrong. Even if she really

11:07

had taken a job in Kansas, why didn't

11:09

she show up or tell anyone

11:11

that she had changed her plans and wouldn't

11:14

be there? Unsure what else

11:16

to do, Nancy reported Carrie missing

11:18

to police. According to

11:20

author Leslie Rule in an

11:22

interview with ABC, authorities

11:25

brushed off Carrie's disappearance, explaining,

11:27

when somebody who's bipolar stops

11:30

taking their meds, sometimes

11:32

they can start some really

11:34

erratic behavior. And erratic

11:37

was a very good word for

11:39

this behavior from Carrie. Though

11:41

she refused to call her own mother back,

11:44

it seemed Carrie continued to

11:46

harass Dave Krupa via

11:48

email. According to ABC,

11:50

one email read, I will

11:52

do what I can to make you

11:55

suffer. Other emails threatened to

11:57

destroy Dave's life. threatening

12:00

and harassing Dave, Carrie

12:03

was also sending other messages

12:05

with a completely different sentiment

12:07

in tone as well. One

12:10

read, we belong together, Dave.

12:12

So, you know, when you look

12:14

at it, this seemingly back-and-forth behavior from

12:17

Carrie did seem like

12:19

it could be bipolar in nature.

12:22

So I think you take all this in

12:24

more and it does seem very strange. This

12:27

relationship that Dave

12:31

had started with Carrie

12:33

seemed to be going well and then

12:36

it was almost like out of the blue. She

12:39

completely turned on him. He

12:42

started receiving these very

12:44

strange messages. And then,

12:46

you know, you have

12:48

her mother who's obviously concerned

12:51

about her. Why would she just quit

12:54

this job that she liked and move

12:56

to Kansas to take a new job?

12:58

But I think it's really when she

13:00

doesn't make this wedding that, at

13:03

least for her mother

13:05

Nancy, the alarm bells started to go

13:07

off. Yeah, and I think most

13:10

parents wouldn't just up and leave their

13:12

child. She's got a son at

13:15

home and to just

13:17

disappear without saying goodbye and

13:19

take off for this mystery job. And

13:22

just like her mom, I too would have been

13:25

suspicious and worried that something wasn't

13:27

right. But if you're Dave,

13:29

what do you think? This harassment

13:32

is continuing. You

13:35

know, it's text and then it's

13:37

emails and they seem to

13:39

be going back and forth. I hate you.

13:41

I'm going to destroy your life. Two, we

13:44

belong together. Yeah, definitely

13:46

some mixed messaging there and you

13:49

have to wonder what he's thinking is, is he

13:51

saying, okay, this is bizarre

13:54

and wondering why these messages are going back

13:56

and forth from one extreme to the other?

14:00

He's probably just not knowing what to think.

14:02

Well, I think in the one quote He said I felt

14:05

like I dodged a bullet like he

14:07

is really finding out who she

14:10

is And you have to

14:12

look at it from his perspective if this

14:14

is the type of person that he's connected

14:17

to Would he rather find

14:19

this out earlier in their? relationship

14:22

than later on in late

14:24

November 2012 Liz Gollier

14:26

one of the women Dave was seeing reported

14:29

an incident to police According

14:31

to her someone had broken into the garage of

14:33

her home. She lived in in Persia, Iowa To

14:36

lay out where Liz lived in comparison

14:39

to both Dave and Omaha and Kerry

14:41

in Macedonia Persia is

14:43

about 37 miles northeast of Omaha

14:45

and about 40 miles north of Macedonia According

14:48

to ABC News during this reported break-in

14:50

at Liz's home Someone had

14:53

written or from Dave in

14:55

spray-paint After this Liz

14:57

also went to Dave's apartment and showed him a

14:59

text message Kerry sent her According

15:02

to the Sun comm it read I

15:04

will do more if you don't leave Dave alone It's

15:07

not clear just how Kerry would have had Liz's

15:09

phone number in order to send her these texts

15:12

It seemed like harassing Dave and

15:14

Liz who Kerry had seen going

15:16

to Dave's apartment was the only thing

15:18

she cared about So now

15:20

we're in the area of the

15:23

harassment expanding, you know,

15:25

it was at first seemingly

15:28

centered on Dave now

15:31

It seems as though Kerry has turned

15:34

her sights on Liz

15:36

and has begun You know

15:38

harassing her and this is a

15:41

point where I start thinking a little bit of like

15:43

a fatal attraction Here where

15:46

you see some someone's doing some things

15:48

that are targeting multiple people

15:50

and It can be

15:52

frightening so to get these texts

15:54

coming in and these messages and

15:56

now it's two people not one It's

15:59

sort of opening up a pattern of

16:01

activity. Well, and

16:03

my thought is Dave probably had to feel

16:05

really bad about this. Liz

16:09

being harassed because

16:12

of a relationship that he had

16:14

with the woman. I think

16:16

what's really frightening about it is

16:19

if you're in Dave and Liz's shoes, how

16:21

would Carrie of even gotten Liz's

16:24

phone number to be able to

16:26

harass her? Because remember, they had never

16:29

met. They just passed each other one day

16:31

outside of Dave's place. So the

16:34

fact that she's now texting her, how

16:36

did she get that information? What lengths would she

16:39

have gone through to have that? And

16:41

I think maybe the first obvious

16:43

answer would have been that maybe

16:45

she got it out of Dave's

16:48

phone while she was

16:50

staying overnight. That would be

16:52

maybe the most obvious answer they

16:54

would have come up with. Carrie's

16:56

son Max turned 15 and

16:59

Carrie didn't show up to celebrate

17:01

or even wish him a happy

17:03

birthday. However, she did text

17:05

and promised she was going to pick

17:07

him up, but she never showed. She

17:09

didn't come home or contact

17:11

anyone for Thanksgiving that year.

17:15

Eventually she didn't even attend

17:17

her father's funeral. Her mother

17:19

Nancy knew this was not

17:21

just a result of bipolar

17:23

disorder, medicated or not. She

17:26

continued to get texts from her

17:28

daughter and soon noticed

17:30

that they were not respectful. She

17:33

told ABC News that they began saying

17:36

that I wasn't a good mother and

17:38

that I was controlling. She also

17:40

noticed that not only were

17:42

the texts mean, they

17:44

were often spelled incorrectly, which

17:47

was another thing that didn't sit right with

17:49

her. Carrie was a

17:51

stickler for punctuation and spelling,

17:54

according to Nancy. In

17:56

Nancy's mind, it was almost like it

17:59

wasn't even caring. sending

18:01

those texts. As much

18:03

as Dave was able to ignore most of Kerry's

18:05

emails, he couldn't ignore what

18:07

started happening next. One night

18:09

he was home alone, relaxing in his recliner,

18:12

when Kerry sent him a text. According

18:14

to ABC News, it read, I see

18:16

you. You're sitting in your chair with your

18:18

feet propped up, wearing a blue shirt.

18:21

The text was terrifying and Dave

18:23

told ABC News those things were true. It

18:26

was clear now to Dave, Kerry wasn't just

18:28

texting him, she was watching him. One

18:30

night as Dave drove home from work, he

18:32

noticed the Ford Explorer parked in a parking lot.

18:35

It was January 2013, just a few months after he had

18:39

worked on Kerry's Explorer, when she brought

18:41

it into his shop. Dave was certain that

18:43

this was her car and it was parked near his home.

18:46

He snapped a quick picture of the license plate

18:48

and drove home. Dave called the

18:50

Omaha Police Department and reported this information

18:52

about Kerry's vehicle. Authorities arrived

18:54

and verified that it was indeed Kerry's

18:57

Explorer. They performed a thorough search

18:59

of the car, including checking for prints, but

19:01

found just one single fingerprint. It

19:04

was on a tin of mints that had been left

19:06

inside, but the print didn't match anyone

19:08

in the FBI's database and it

19:10

also wasn't the fingerprint of Kerry Farber. It

19:13

belonged to someone else. At that

19:15

point, the Explorer was impounded. Now

19:18

Morphew and I have done a

19:20

lot of cases and many of

19:22

those cases have involved stalking

19:24

like behavior. Most

19:26

often it's a male stalking

19:29

or harassing a female.

19:32

But just like with any crime,

19:34

we know that women are capable

19:37

of this type of stuff as

19:39

well. But just stalking in

19:41

general, this type of stuff,

19:43

so scary that someone is

19:46

texting you, I see

19:48

you, this is what you're

19:50

wearing, this is what you're doing. That

19:52

would freak me out. Yeah,

19:54

so that really had to ramp up Dave's

19:57

paranoia and the sense of security

20:00

of what can she

20:02

see, how, you know, is she watching

20:05

me at all times. So

20:07

he's probably nervous and looking over his

20:09

shoulder at this point. And then this

20:11

just adds a whole nother piece

20:13

to this mystery because Carrie's out there missing,

20:17

yet here's her explorer that turns up

20:19

that Dave finds. And when

20:22

the police search it, they find

20:24

one single fingerprint in the vehicle. And

20:27

that's concerning. It's not, doesn't belong to

20:29

Carrie. And there should be lots of fingerprints

20:31

in there. You know, think of driving to

20:33

work every day, going shopping, whatever.

20:35

There should be prints all over the inside

20:37

of your vehicle. So to me,

20:39

that's a big red flag that somebody has wiped

20:41

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20:43

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23:24

In April 2013, Nancy

23:26

Rainey received a call from an

23:28

unknown male claiming that Carrie had

23:30

been found at a homeless shelter

23:33

and needed a ride. Elated to

23:35

know that her daughter was safe, Nancy

23:37

rushed to the shelter, only to

23:39

find out that Carrie had never even

23:42

stayed there. She told ABC News,

23:44

it was such a letdown and I

23:47

was just devastated, adding, I get

23:49

this raising in my hopes and

23:51

then it stashed again. I knew somebody

23:53

was playing games here. By May,

23:56

Max was fed up with the entire

23:59

situation. wanted to know where

24:01

his mom was once and

24:03

for all. He sent Kerry a message

24:05

on Facebook and got a response

24:07

that read, Hey, little man, how are

24:09

you? Before continuing the

24:12

conversation any further, Max

24:14

asked Kerry three questions to prove that

24:16

it was really her. He

24:18

was talking to what his middle name

24:21

was, what the name of their

24:23

first dog was, and what

24:25

his best friend's name was. He

24:27

never replied to answer his questions.

24:30

And to him, that was an

24:32

indication that it really wasn't his

24:35

mom he was communicating with. Text

24:38

and email supposedly from Kerry continued coming

24:40

to both Dave and Liz, who

24:42

continued to see each other despite the harassment.

24:45

Dave told ABC News, it was

24:47

actually extremely common for us to be hanging

24:49

out on a couch, watching

24:51

TV or something, and both of

24:53

our phones would start blowing up with text

24:55

messages and emails from Kerry. When

24:57

they weren't together, the messages kept coming.

25:00

One very serious message terrified Dave.

25:03

It was a photo of a bound woman in the trunk of

25:05

a car. The text sent with the

25:07

photo included a threat to murder Liz. Dave

25:10

immediately called Liz, who was physically unharmed,

25:12

but shaken by the message sent to him. Later

25:15

that day, Dave received a link to a

25:17

fake obituary for Liz. In

25:20

August 2013, the threat

25:22

to kill Liz nearly came true. A

25:25

fire destroyed Liz's home and

25:27

killed her cat, two of her dogs, and

25:29

her pet snake. After investigators

25:31

determined that arson was the cause of

25:34

the fire, Liz pointed the

25:36

finger at Kerry Farber, the only person

25:38

with any motive to harm her. After

25:41

this, Dave acquired a 9mm Smith

25:43

& Wesson gun to be able

25:45

to protect himself. He

25:47

knew Kerry had been watching him when

25:49

he was alone inside, and now

25:52

she had burned down Liz's house and

25:54

killed her pets. If Kerry knew

25:56

about the purchase of the gun, she

25:59

seemed undeterred. heard. The auto

26:01

shop that Dave worked at, the

26:03

one where they met, was vandalized

26:05

and he immediately suspected Carrey. By

26:08

January 2014, the harassment

26:10

increased. One night, Heather

26:13

Twett, who Dave had known since high

26:15

school, was over visiting at his apartment.

26:18

She witnessed Dave receive a flurry

26:20

of text messages just before

26:22

they heard someone in the hallway

26:25

twisting Dave's doorknob. When he looked,

26:27

there was no one there. Later, the same

26:30

night, Dave and Heather were laying

26:32

together in his bed when a brick

26:34

came crashing through the window. The

26:36

harassment expanded. Dave's

26:38

ex, Amy Flora, had also begun

26:40

to receive threatening text messages from

26:43

Carrey. Literally anyone in Dave's life

26:45

was fair game for these messages. Even

26:47

as time passed, they didn't slow down or

26:49

stop. By the spring of 2015, it

26:52

had been over two years since anyone who

26:55

wasn't being harassed by Carrey last heard from

26:57

her. Around this time, two

26:59

detectives from the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office

27:01

heard about what was going on. Jim

27:04

Doty and Ryan Avis decided to work

27:06

the case together with fresh eyes, but

27:08

from competing angles. Detective

27:10

Avis told ABC News, Jim's

27:13

going to work it like she's dead and

27:15

I'm going to work it like she's alive. I'm

27:17

going to try and prove every which way I

27:19

can that Carrey is still out there and Jim

27:21

is going to try and prove every which way that

27:24

she is not. One

27:26

thing that I really want to talk about

27:28

is how much time has gone by. You

27:30

just mentioned it more two years

27:33

by the spring of 2015, since

27:36

anyone who wasn't being harassed

27:39

had heard from Carrey. To

27:41

me, it's almost as if

27:45

there hasn't been up to

27:47

this point where

27:49

detectives Doty and Avis come into

27:51

the picture, a lot

27:53

of effort to try to find

27:56

Carrey. Now, we don't know how

27:58

much police work had gone in. And, but

28:00

there didn't seem to be much about

28:02

it in the research. Yeah. You

28:04

have Kerry reported missing and it

28:07

seems like it's just assumed by everyone at this

28:09

point that she's gone off,

28:11

but is still leading this

28:13

clandestine attack on Dave

28:16

and Liz of harassment. But

28:18

in reality, no one knows where

28:20

she's at or if she's safe, she could be the

28:23

victim of a crime herself. And

28:25

what surprises me, there's

28:27

this big trail of electronic

28:30

messages, emails, texts, calls,

28:32

things like that. Um, how

28:35

much of any of that was checked? It

28:37

wouldn't you check for phone pings, try and

28:39

find her phone. If you can locate

28:41

that, then maybe that will help you find

28:43

out what happened where she's at and

28:46

one way or the other, you know, help her

28:48

out. If she's at

28:50

risk or has been harmed, or

28:52

if she's the person responsible for this harassment

28:55

to catch her and bring her in for

28:57

that. So one way or another,

28:59

I'm just surprised that they didn't try

29:01

and follow those leads earlier. But

29:04

now we have these two detectives

29:07

and it's interesting that they're, they're going

29:09

at it from opposite

29:12

angles. The detective started with

29:14

her bank account records, because

29:17

even if her erratic behavior had

29:19

been caused by bipolar disorder,

29:22

that wouldn't have meant she didn't need

29:25

any of her money to survive, but

29:27

there had been no activity on any

29:29

of her accounts since November, 2012. This

29:33

was a red flag and detective Avis

29:35

told ABC news, it's not

29:38

normal for adults to just stop and

29:40

leave and literally spend no

29:42

money while it was his angle

29:44

to try and prove Kerry was still out there.

29:46

He kept coming up short. He could

29:48

come up with no reason for her

29:51

to leave saying she had good income,

29:53

a good house, I had

29:55

come to the conclusion that I could

29:57

not prove she was actually a lot.

30:00

And for my part, I would add in there,

30:02

you know, her son, I

30:04

just think that's such a huge part in this case

30:07

as well. You know, she lived

30:09

with her mom, she had a good

30:11

relationship seemingly with her mom. None

30:13

of that makes any sense either.

30:16

For his part, Detective Dodie found

30:18

it odd that while Kerry

30:20

wasn't regularly contacting anyone she

30:22

was closely related to, not

30:25

her son, not her mom,

30:27

for example, she was consistently

30:30

messaging Liz, who was essentially

30:32

a stranger to her. That

30:35

jumped out to Detective Dodie, who told

30:37

ABC News after Kerry went

30:39

missing, all of a sudden

30:41

she's this focus of harassment.

30:44

As he looked through the case file, he noticed a

30:46

pattern. He said to ABC, Liz's

30:49

name was all over all

30:52

of the reports. So to me, there

30:54

was something with Liz. She definitely was

30:57

a person of interest. The detectives

30:59

began to take a closer look at Liz and

31:01

found that she and Dave had both

31:04

let investigators download their cell phone data

31:06

in 2013 when they first began

31:08

to report being harassed. Looking through

31:10

her phone, the detectives found a

31:12

picture of Kerry's Ford Explorer, which

31:14

was suspicious on the phone. The date

31:17

was what really caught their eye. The

31:19

photo had been taken almost a month before Dave

31:21

had seen it and reported it to the authorities.

31:24

For at least one month, Liz had known

31:26

where Kerry's car was when no one else could track

31:28

her down. Also interesting was

31:30

that there were six calls placed to Kerry's

31:33

house from Liz's phone. All

31:35

six calls had been made using star six

31:37

seven to hide Liz's number from Kerry. This

31:40

went against the story that Liz didn't know Kerry

31:42

and that they had only ever seen each other one

31:44

time in the hallway at Dave's apartment. There

31:47

was also proof that a video uploaded

31:49

to YouTube using Kerry's name showing

31:51

the outside of Dave's apartment was

31:53

actually uploaded from an IP address that belonged

31:55

to Liz. Liz had gone from

31:57

being a potential target of Kerry's to. possibly

32:00

being responsible for disappearance. So

32:03

we've talked a lot about these

32:05

incidents of harassment. And I

32:07

think we have to drive home just

32:09

how extensive this campaign of terror was.

32:12

Anthony Cava, a

32:14

digital forensics administrator with the

32:17

Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office told

32:19

ABC news. The imposter who

32:22

was pretending to be Kerry sent

32:24

Dave about 15,000 email

32:27

messages over a three year

32:29

span. It might've been upwards of

32:31

25,000 or 50,000 texts in all.

32:37

So think about that for a second. That's

32:40

potentially around 65,000 messages

32:43

sent to Dave in total

32:46

over three years. That's more

32:48

texts than emails than some

32:50

people will send in a lifetime. So

32:53

it's clear to see why Dave would

32:55

have been nervous and feared

32:57

for his safety. This is

32:59

like you said, morph some real fatal

33:02

attraction level stuff that

33:04

he's up against. And

33:07

I can tell you right now, I guarantee I

33:09

will never send 65,000 text

33:12

messages in my entire life. I'm

33:15

not a big texter. You and I

33:17

text every now and then, but it's

33:20

normally just informational stuff. I

33:22

don't have whole conversations like

33:24

some people do via text.

33:26

Now I do, I am guilty

33:29

of sending and receiving lots of emails. I'm

33:31

actually looking at my phone now as I'm

33:33

recording this and I can

33:35

see I have like 12,000

33:37

emails total that I've sent

33:40

and received. And my

33:42

kids are always making fun of me because of

33:44

the amount of emails that I have. And then

33:46

they look at my text messages and they're like,

33:48

you have 380 un-responded text. So

33:53

I do communicate a lot, but still

33:55

65,000. That's, those

33:58

are over my lifetime of. of

34:00

having these accounts this is sixty

34:03

five thousand over a three

34:05

year period that's just incredible

34:08

that number. Well i am a

34:10

lot of the stuff that that you and

34:12

i do is is probably for the podcast.

34:16

You think about it emailing and

34:18

and and things like that i do

34:20

a lot of emailing but it's

34:23

normally related to the podcast

34:25

or or business or something

34:27

like that. Yeah this

34:29

is sixty five thousand messages

34:31

that are just for pure harassment and

34:34

nothing else. Detectives avis and

34:36

doty visited nancy rainey in two thousand

34:38

fifteen they assure her that

34:40

at this point in their investigation not

34:43

only did they believe carry really was missing

34:45

and hadn't been hiding her own free will. They

34:48

were working hard to figure out exactly what

34:50

happened to her who was responsible as

34:52

she walked the detectives through the timeline of

34:54

her daughter's disappearance answer revealed

34:56

an important clue. Just after

34:58

the last actual contact with carry that she

35:00

had nancy received the text

35:03

message asking her to unlock her apartment

35:05

because someone was coming to pick up a furniture. She

35:08

said she had sold all of it and sent a

35:10

picture of a check made out to her from a

35:12

shana will you as in shana

35:14

elizabeth liz goleer the woman

35:16

who was supposedly being harassed by carry. With

35:19

all this information the detectives decided

35:21

to run liz's fingerprints against the

35:23

single print down on the mint

35:25

tin and carries car it matched she

35:28

was now the prime suspect and carries disappearance.

35:31

But please still needed to figure out what she had

35:33

done to carry not long after

35:35

the detectives caught on to liz's involvement

35:37

in carries disappearance gave purple called

35:39

the police to report that is nine millimeter

35:41

pistol had been stolen. Meanwhile he

35:43

and liz continue to be harassed by who

35:46

dave thought was carry but who police

35:48

thought was likely liz. So

35:50

there's a couple of things that that

35:53

were running through my head

35:55

here one was

35:57

about nancy Who.

36:00

I can only imagine what she was

36:02

going through. Over the years.

36:05

Never. Probably believing

36:07

that carry would just

36:09

abandon her abandoned Max

36:11

Will. Now she has

36:13

these detectives. Who. Are

36:16

telling her that. Big. Don't

36:18

bully. They. Carry just

36:21

willingly. Left her family,

36:23

That had to have caused a range of

36:26

emotions. But. At least now

36:28

someone. Seems. As though

36:30

they're really looking into from.

36:33

That. Perspective. But. The

36:35

other thing that that I was

36:37

thinking about was day. If.

36:39

Daves is still in

36:41

some sort of relationship

36:43

with Liz. I think

36:46

they're bonded in some way.

36:48

Over. The. Harassment.

36:51

That they're both receiving. Any.

36:53

Have to wonder at what point.

36:56

To. Police go to Dave and

36:58

say. You. Know Hey. We.

37:01

Think Liz might be behind.

37:03

I'm. Sure, they had to be really careful that. Yeah.

37:06

It's it's. just. You know,

37:08

at what point. Do. You say?

37:10

Okay this guy, safety may be at

37:12

risk and we have to. Tell

37:14

I understand you wanna? Protect.

37:17

Maybe your investigation, but. His.

37:19

His life to be in danger. You have to. Teach.

37:22

Him out that situation or make him a were so

37:24

he can. You. Know maybe protect himself

37:26

for of distance himself from her. Why?

37:29

They think after you report that

37:31

you're nine millimeters stolen. Dat.

37:34

Can ups the ante. A. Little

37:37

bit, maybe? But. Like you said,

37:39

they do have to. Protect.

37:41

The investigation they all that. They

37:43

also have to prove some things.

37:46

He'd go around. Calling.

37:48

People Wow When you don't have seen

37:50

all of the facts to back it

37:52

up, but is is a really precarious

37:55

situation, That's what I was thinking. On

37:57

December fourth, two thousand And Fifteen. This

38:00

visited the Pot of water Me.

38:02

County. Sheriff's Office to file a new

38:05

report. According to her, she

38:07

was still being harassed, but

38:09

this time it wasn't curie

38:11

sarver. Messaging. Her,

38:13

it. Was Daves X, the mother

38:15

of his children Amy for. Detective.

38:18

A this visited lives at

38:20

home. the interview her she

38:22

cooperated. thinking. He

38:25

was investigating her new harassment

38:27

claim. She. Informed him that she

38:29

didn't think here he had been the

38:31

one harassing her at all. She now

38:34

believe that all of the texts and

38:36

emails had been from Aim. He

38:38

also mention that Daves Gun. Which.

38:41

She specified was a nine millimeter

38:43

smith and Wesson. Had. Been soul.

38:46

Detective. A the sword A

38:48

B C She realized that

38:50

she probably should know any details

38:52

about the gone and been

38:54

any further questions I asked about

38:57

the gun. She. Was very vet.

38:59

Detective. A This asked if she

39:02

would consent to another phone download. Like.

39:04

The one she had consented to in

39:06

two thousand and thirteen. She. Agreed

39:08

and signed a release form. Allowing

39:11

investigators to search her phone.

39:13

And this was a huge help to the

39:15

detectives. She. Basically handed

39:18

them access to everything they

39:20

need to confirm their suspicion.

39:23

On. December fifth. the day after lives

39:25

Met with Detective Amos. She. Called

39:27

Nine One One. She. Had been shot

39:29

in the leg in Big Lake Park and Council

39:31

Bluffs, Iowa. Just. Over the border from

39:33

Omaha. It was dark and there were

39:36

no witnesses. At. First, she said she

39:38

had no idea who could have attacked

39:40

her. But. It wasn't long before she

39:42

told investigators. He suspected it had

39:44

been aiming for. To. detect of

39:46

a bus. The shooting was awfully

39:48

suspicious. He. Said the A B C. I

39:51

found a highly suspicious that the day before she

39:53

felt the need to tell me. That

39:55

day poop as gun had been stolen. And.

39:57

Less than twenty four hours later, He

39:59

shot. Authorities. Clear to amy of

40:01

all involvement the same night of the shooting. They.

40:04

Believe that lives stole Daves gun. And.

40:06

Used it to shoot yourself in the late. And.

40:08

More of our Athlete Your reference

40:11

A Fatal Attraction early on. Is.

40:13

Just proving itself out as we

40:15

move forward through this case. I

40:18

mean, Dumb. Links.

40:20

That. Police believe at this

40:22

point. Lives. Has gone to.

40:25

The. Harassment. It. Then

40:27

you have. Can. Of bringing.

40:30

A. Me: Into. It and.

40:32

I think there was on there was

40:35

some harassment of of Amy as well.

40:37

Think. There was some fear their on

40:40

her part. About. Her and

40:42

and Daves kids. And. Then.

40:44

The. Police believing that lease shot

40:47

herself in in the leg. I.

40:49

Mean, we're not boiling rabbits on the

40:51

stove, but. We're. Getting close.

40:54

Spoiler. Alert for the the movie by the

40:56

with. Spoiler alert if you

40:58

ever seen Fatal Attraction by now.

41:00

I'm not spoiling anything that movie is. I don't

41:02

want to say as old as you and I

41:05

cause is not but it's all. Wow.

41:07

All of the drama surrounding the

41:10

shooting was unfolding. Police. Tech

41:12

Anthony Kava was digging into the

41:14

new download of loses fum. He.

41:17

Found a lot of evidence which. Will.

41:19

Probably make a lot of people wonder

41:22

why she voluntarily allowed the search in

41:24

the first place. More. Than

41:26

twenty maybe even thirty email address

41:28

with some form of the name

41:31

carry are forever and them had

41:33

been created. using. Her phone.

41:35

Com. Also found an app. That.

41:38

Scheduled text messages to go out

41:40

at certain times and this app

41:42

was a key part of the

41:44

point. This. Was how lives

41:46

made it seem. Like. Carry

41:48

was harassing both her and Dave.

41:51

When. They had been to get. This. Would

41:53

have curbed any suspicion of lives

41:55

on Daves part because how could

41:57

Liz be sending the tests if

41:59

they're. The gather when the attacks

42:01

are coming in. Looking. Through

42:04

everything that lives had since.

42:06

And. All of the accounts she had

42:08

prayed. Father. Believe that she

42:10

spill most fifty hours every week.

42:13

Harassing. Day. Those. And his

42:15

wife. And. Are so. He

42:17

said A B C News. This. Seem to

42:20

be a full time occupation for her.

42:22

Trying. To start people. In.

42:24

Sin them message. And

42:27

this notion of Liz voluntarily

42:29

allowing the police to search

42:31

her phone? It was kind

42:33

of a head scratcher to

42:35

me. I don't know if.

42:38

She. Thought she was just a

42:40

lot smarter than she actually was

42:42

that she had done. Enough

42:45

to to cover her tracks.

42:47

As a deaths, pretty tough when

42:50

a. Highly trained,

42:52

Police forensic some person is is

42:54

gonna get a crack at. And

42:57

then you think about. Spending.

42:59

Fifty hours a week. Estimated.

43:03

Just. Harassing. People

43:05

and said in all this stuff up.

43:07

I don't even want to work fifty hours a

43:09

week. I certainly don't want

43:11

to work a job. And

43:13

then spend fifty hours on top

43:16

of that. Trying to to

43:18

set up this elaborate hoax?

43:21

It's a whole thing is mind boggling. To.

43:23

Me: Yeah. When you look at that

43:25

is the totality of everything that's going

43:27

on here and it goes back to

43:29

this. Sixty. Five thousand.

43:32

Messages. Of course it was a

43:34

fifty hours a week undertaking when sister.

43:37

The. Time the planet stuff and type

43:39

it out and you noticed. It's

43:41

mind boggling to think that. Someone.

43:44

To do that. But. It was interesting

43:46

to me when it came out

43:48

that he or she was using this

43:50

app to schedule the tax. Because.

43:53

You're you. Think about it. Let's.

43:55

Say. Listen. De ver.

43:58

As. His apartment. They're sitting. The Council

44:00

just watching T V. All.

44:03

The sudden they're phone start blowing up.

44:05

We'll. See has to have a way.

44:08

Of those tax coming in where she's

44:10

not sitting there sending them. I mean,

44:12

obviously he would figure that out pretty

44:15

quickly. So. There was some devious

44:17

stuff here are on her part.

44:20

It. Was easy for detectives to bring lives

44:22

in for an interrogation because she thought it

44:25

was just an interview regarding who shot. She.

44:27

Insisted that of Zany who attacked her. They've.

44:30

Been harassing her and one of his taxes

44:32

to look into closely. They decided to

44:34

play along and toll is. That. They

44:36

needed her to help to get more evidence have been

44:38

his guilt? Lives. Gave him exactly what

44:40

she thought they would need, And. Their

44:42

plan worked. Detective. Dodi told

44:44

a B C News. We. Started receiving

44:47

messages. That she said we're from

44:49

age. Where. Amy confesses to shooting

44:51

lizard Big Lake Park. He. Told

44:53

lizzie need more for help. Especially.

44:55

When it came to proven that Amy was

44:58

involved in carry farmers disappearance. Soon.

45:00

Lose. For that sectors emails she said

45:02

we're from Amy. That. Included gruesome

45:05

details of tears murder. Not.

45:07

Just information about her disappearance. According.

45:10

To A B C News. This messes

45:12

that was supposedly from Amy. indicated.

45:14

She had stabbed carry at least three or four

45:16

times. And. Then placed her dead body

45:19

into trash bags. The. Quick escalation

45:21

hear from disappearance to murder was

45:23

shocking. Detective. Duty said that the

45:25

details were bone chilling. Because. They were

45:27

very graphic. They. Were left to wonder

45:30

and eventually try to prove carried died the

45:32

way the message said She did. Man.

45:34

Was upset with police that Amy

45:37

was in custody. With all that

45:39

she had confessed to, the detectives

45:41

told her that they didn't quite

45:43

have enough information to make an

45:46

arrest sick. They. Needed something from

45:48

a me that they could use

45:50

to prove she committed the murder

45:52

and right on time. another email

45:54

was sent. This time with

45:56

even more details. The new message

45:59

revealed that. Here he had been

46:01

murdered in your own vehicle. With. A

46:03

crime scene to examine. Investigators went

46:05

back to search queries Ford Explorer

46:08

which was stolen their possession. During.

46:10

The search they were moved the outer

46:13

fabric from the seats of the car.

46:15

Revealing. Read stains on the

46:17

passenger seat. Testing determined

46:20

that. The. Stains were from

46:22

carry farmers blood. Only.

46:24

Carries killer would have known that the

46:26

car was the scene of her murder.

46:29

Investigators had been in it twice

46:31

and had not noticed anything wrong.

46:34

And. As we mentioned, the only

46:36

found one fingerprint so in

46:38

their minds lizard done an

46:40

extremely good job cleaning it

46:42

and hiding evidence. Omaha

46:45

Police Department detective Days Snyder as

46:47

lives to come into the station.

46:49

Scary. Have been killed and omaha. The.

46:52

Pot of Water. Me County Sheriff's Office needed

46:54

the cooperation of the Surtees and Omaha. Detective.

46:57

Snyder and Slim was that they were on tour.

46:59

And that all the in his emails had come

47:02

from her ip address. He. Also told her

47:04

about the food as they found on her cell phone

47:06

download. She. Denied all of it and

47:08

said she didn't even have an ip address.

47:10

Since. You didn't have home internet service. Officers

47:13

with a search warrant went to lose his

47:15

apartment. Lawsuits. Being interrogated by

47:17

Detective Schneider. He fell terry

47:19

farmers digital camera and or camcorder and

47:22

loses belongs. There. Were still a video

47:24

of carry on the camcorder from the two days

47:26

before she disappeared. She. Was discussing

47:28

recent harassment. Someone. Had vandalized

47:30

her car. Finally, The

47:33

police cell did. they had enough to

47:35

charge lives and on December twenty second,

47:37

two thousand and sixteen. Over

47:39

four years after carries

47:42

disappearance. Santa. Elizabeth

47:44

going. Was. Arrested and charged

47:46

with her murder. Before. Trial

47:48

Dave Krupa found a tablet he

47:50

had been keeping and storage and

47:53

remembered that the micro Sd card

47:55

and saw had once belonged to

47:57

with so he turns it over

47:59

to the investing. Have have found

48:01

thousands of deleted photos but he

48:04

was able to restore every single

48:06

one. The most damning image

48:08

on the micro Sd card was

48:10

a picture of a human foot.

48:13

With. A tattoo on. The. Tattoo

48:15

a Chinese symbol meaning

48:17

mother. Mast. Carry Farmers

48:20

tattoo. Kava told A B

48:22

C news it was shot. It.

48:24

Made me realize that. Liz.

48:27

Goal your killed Juri farther. And.

48:29

She's taking photos of her, but.

48:32

If I said it was, I swear I've says one

48:34

hundred tons. Of people. Things.

48:37

That. Deleting. Things.

48:40

Means. That they'll be gone forever. Well.

48:43

As any Kava will tell you

48:45

differently, any proved it. You.

48:48

Have. The technology is

48:50

such that they can

48:52

retrieve deleted photos emails.

48:54

You're all kinds of

48:56

stuff. And. Really?

48:59

You. Know the ip addresses

49:01

and. All. The stuff

49:03

they uncovered was was very damning

49:05

but you have the to look

49:07

at this photograph. As.

49:10

Ten. Of the capper. A list

49:12

has a photograph. Of. Cherry

49:15

Farmers. Foot. And.

49:17

This was and you know, a

49:19

picture of someone sitting on a

49:21

couch and you just happened to

49:24

catch their foot in a. Photograph.

49:27

This. Is a picture of a human foot.

49:29

And it's very obvious.

49:32

That what you're looking at. It's

49:34

very damning evidence. Yeah, I

49:36

think it just adds to the. The. Bizarre

49:39

this and the the level

49:41

of. Just how dangerous

49:43

and. Serious. The situation

49:45

is that. It seems that.

49:48

This has gone through these to these

49:50

great lengths to do all of this.

49:53

Obviously and understandably, News.

49:55

Of loses arrest and what please Had honor

49:57

was asked throw me hard for day become.

50:00

The terms with. This. Was a woman

50:02

he had been casually dating for a long time. He.

50:04

Trusted her. She'd. Been in his

50:06

home countless times. He. Told People

50:08

Magazine. Up till then. Every

50:10

ten carries name came up I wanted to

50:12

throw up. Adding. Then.

50:15

To learn that she's not only not at

50:17

fault, But. She's been murdered. And.

50:19

Lives the person who I leaned on was

50:21

responsible for killing carry. It's. Still hard

50:23

to even process. Any some put

50:26

yourself in Daves, you. Use.

50:28

He was. So

50:30

manipulate. By. Liz.

50:33

Going. You. We talked about.

50:35

The. Fire. Of her

50:37

house, where her paths. And

50:40

then you start to think. Most

50:42

likely lives set that fire.

50:45

Just. To perpetuate this

50:47

route. And in may be

50:49

some way. To get back in

50:52

two days like. right? Because Daves

50:54

a good guy. He's gonna wanna.

50:57

For poor her. Give. Her

50:59

a shoulder to to cry on

51:01

for is just burned down. So.

51:04

I think for him to find

51:06

out that she was behind all

51:08

of this. It. Had to

51:10

have just thrown him into a

51:13

tailspin. Liz. Wave to

51:15

ride to a jury trial and

51:17

requested that digits be the one

51:19

to determine her guilt or innocence.

51:21

Her defense attorney, James Martin Dave,

51:24

explain the reasoning for this telling

51:26

A B C. We waved the

51:28

jury trial to move it up

51:30

so I could try this case,

51:32

hopefully before they'd find a body.

51:35

as it stood with carry still

51:37

missing. Davis. Felt there was

51:39

a chance that the prosecution wouldn't be

51:42

able to prove their case. He.

51:44

Added not only was or nobody.

51:47

There. Was no crime scene. There was no

51:49

murder weapon. There. Was no proof

51:51

that. Steven. Dot. Ultimately,

51:54

judge timothy burns found was

51:56

guilty of first degree murder

51:59

saying Mary Farver did

52:01

not voluntarily disappear and

52:03

drop off the face of the earth. Very

52:06

sadly, she was murdered. Judge

52:08

Burns sentenced Liz to life in

52:10

prison without the possibility of parole

52:13

and added an additional 20 years

52:15

for the arson fire of her

52:17

own residence. The Omaha Police

52:19

Department released a written statement to ABC News

52:22

that really sums it all up. It

52:24

read, And I would say that's

52:26

absolutely true. This

52:51

level of deception, I don't

52:53

know how many times we've seen it

52:56

rise to this level. There's

52:59

always deception. There's manipulation

53:02

in a lot of the cases that

53:04

we do. But this was at such

53:07

a massive level that it's

53:09

almost staggering to think about. The

53:12

number of years, the

53:14

messages, the setting your own

53:16

house on fire, intentionally killing

53:18

your own pets. I

53:21

mean, who thinks of all this stuff? Yeah,

53:23

I think most people can't

53:25

fathom that someone is

53:27

disturbed enough to do all this and

53:30

go through these great lengths to

53:32

make all this happen and to carry

53:35

this out and put it in the time and

53:37

effort that she did. It's

53:39

just frightening to even think about. One

53:43

thing more that I can't

53:45

stop thinking about is that

53:47

this relationship between Dave and

53:50

Liz, which essentially

53:53

seems to have kickstarted

53:55

everything with the

53:57

introduction of Kerry. started

54:00

dating Carrie, it's not like

54:02

they had been together for 20 years. They'd

54:05

only been dating Dave and Liz

54:07

for months. I

54:10

just don't understand how she became

54:13

so enraged and so

54:15

fixated in that short

54:18

period of time that it

54:20

led to not only

54:22

the harassment, but

54:25

murder. Yeah, this is a

54:27

woman that supposedly said she was okay

54:29

with no commitments and dating

54:32

other people and things like that, but

54:34

it seems like she really wasn't. And I wonder if

54:37

anyone that Dave was dating, if

54:40

she might've become Liz's victim had she been

54:42

walking out of his apartment that day. I'd

54:45

say that's a pretty fair assessment.

54:48

Sadly, it just happened to be

54:50

Carrie Farth from behind

54:52

bars at Nebraska Correctional Center for

54:54

Women. Liz Gullier continues

54:57

to maintain her innocence. She

54:59

even writes letters about it to anyone who

55:01

will listen. One such letter

55:04

she wrote to author Leslie Rule read

55:07

in part, I will not stop

55:09

fighting until I am set free and

55:11

they find the right person. Detective

55:13

Avis and Dodie and investigator

55:16

Kava teamed up to create

55:18

the Carrie Farver Memorial Scholarship

55:21

at Iowa Western Community

55:23

College. The scholarship supports

55:25

students studying information technology.

55:28

It always blows me away,

55:30

you know, these individuals who

55:33

maintain their innocence. They

55:36

say, well, you know, I'm not going to

55:38

stop fighting until they find the right person.

55:40

The evidence against this woman

55:43

was so overwhelming, but

55:46

I guess what does it

55:48

hurt her, right, to maintain

55:50

her innocence? What's in it for

55:52

her to actually come out

55:54

and say, you know, what, you're right. You got

55:56

me. I did all of this,

55:59

but it just seems like. delusional thinking

56:02

to me. It's almost like they just

56:04

can't bring themselves sometimes to

56:07

say you know admit what they

56:09

did despite all the evidence against them despite

56:12

the fact they've been convicted they

56:14

just refused to say the words

56:16

yes I did it and you

56:18

got me. Although Carrie's remains have

56:20

never been found the arrest and conviction

56:22

of her killer has meant a lot to Carrie's family.

56:25

Her mom Nancy speaking of the police work

56:27

in the case told ABC those guys

56:29

they mean the world to me I

56:32

can't thank them enough they're my boys

56:34

Dave act of this sentiments

56:37

saying Dodie, Avis, Cava

56:39

they're all heroes and Detective Dodie

56:41

said to us as detectives

56:43

to win because we have somebody

56:45

behind bars but at the same time

56:47

we're also telling a mother that her

56:49

daughter has been killed he added it's

56:52

a very sad outcome for Carrie's mother

56:55

I'm sure there was a part of her that still had

56:57

hope that maybe Carrie would come back

56:59

someday it wasn't a joyous occasion

57:01

by any means. Dave has

57:03

moved away from Omaha and continues to

57:05

date but much more carefully he

57:08

told Time magazine if I'd have

57:10

known the choice was this craziness or

57:12

tell Carrie I'm not interested I would

57:14

have told Carrie I'm not interested but you

57:17

don't get that choice and I

57:19

really feel for Dave you know

57:21

throughout this entire thing I

57:23

feel for Carrie's mom

57:25

I also feel for Max I

57:27

mean we haven't talked about him

57:30

all that much but he lost

57:32

his mother and for

57:34

a number of years had to feel

57:37

both he and

57:39

Carrie's mother had to feel that Carrie

57:42

just abandoned them extremely

57:45

tough. And then to realize

57:47

later on that you know she

57:49

didn't abandon them she didn't run off that it

57:51

was the

57:53

fact she had just run across someone

57:55

who was a dangerous person and for

57:58

whatever reason decided to take her life.

58:00

You know, it's just unfortunate thing that

58:02

they had to think that she

58:04

left them. This crime is

58:07

as terrifying as it is

58:09

sensational and complex. All

58:11

Kerry did was hit it off with a

58:13

stranger looking to have

58:16

fun, not looking for really

58:18

a serious commitment. If she

58:20

had left his apartment that night just a

58:22

bit earlier, would she and Liz

58:25

have ever crossed paths, putting

58:27

a target on her back? Nancy

58:29

Rainey told ABC that she hopes

58:32

that her daughter, Kerry Farver, will

58:34

be remembered as the fun,

58:36

loving, talented, smart woman that she

58:38

was. Dave added, Kerry's

58:40

spirit and drive marked her

58:43

out as different from the rest of the woman

58:46

I had met, adding that

58:48

she was out of my league.

58:50

So more of as we wrap this one

58:52

up, this is an extremely

58:55

fascinating, also

58:58

sad, case. We've

59:00

detailed out the links that

59:03

Liz went to, including

59:06

the murder of Kerry Farver.

59:09

But I do think there are a

59:11

lot of questions still. You

59:14

know, why did police not

59:16

really try to track Kerry's phone,

59:18

where it was pinging from? Same

59:21

with her social media. You know,

59:23

there were Facebook messages coming

59:26

from her account. What

59:29

police work early on was

59:31

done to try

59:33

to figure some of that stuff out. And

59:35

I don't know that there was all that

59:37

much, or I think they could have

59:40

figured out what Liz was up to much,

59:43

much sooner. Yeah, this wasn't

59:46

like an anonymous letter coming in

59:48

the mail with no way to track it.

59:50

This was an electronic trail. These

59:53

messages were all tied to electronics.

59:55

And, you know, it was

59:57

a decade ago, but I'm sure even back then they

59:59

could track. a lot of stuff and ping

1:00:01

towers and things like that. So it's still a

1:00:03

little bit surprising that they didn't do any of

1:00:05

that stuff sooner and try

1:00:08

and connect dots and figure out

1:00:10

where Kerry was that way. Well,

1:00:12

I just wonder how much of it

1:00:15

was a result of, you know,

1:00:17

the fact that Kerry was

1:00:20

diagnosed with bipolar disorder and

1:00:23

the police just thought, well, she's

1:00:25

an adult. She has the

1:00:27

right to leave her family

1:00:29

and up and move to Kansas if

1:00:32

she wants and that type

1:00:34

of thinking. Because we've heard that type of

1:00:36

thinking in other cases before. Yeah,

1:00:38

especially if this is a person

1:00:40

that has a family, a home,

1:00:43

a job, things that they normally

1:00:45

wouldn't walk away from. That

1:00:48

has to raise some red flags. I mean, to her

1:00:50

son and to her mom, they didn't

1:00:52

think Kerry left on her own. So

1:00:55

it didn't seem like from the beginning that

1:00:57

it was a case of her just running

1:00:59

off to some mystery life while still choosing

1:01:02

to target Dave and Liz

1:01:04

here. And I think

1:01:07

that's the big difference, right? This

1:01:09

isn't a person who just disappeared

1:01:11

where police could say,

1:01:14

well, they have the right to

1:01:16

do that. There was

1:01:19

criminal behavior that was

1:01:21

thought to have been being

1:01:23

perpetrated by her, you know,

1:01:26

this stalking, this harassment.

1:01:29

So not looking

1:01:31

into that aspect of it seems

1:01:34

to be very strange to me. Yeah,

1:01:36

one thing that jumped out to

1:01:38

me sort of was a hole in Liz's

1:01:41

campaign of terror, her claims.

1:01:44

She mentioned that she was being harassed

1:01:46

by Kerry, but it doesn't add

1:01:48

up. How would she have

1:01:50

been being harassed by Kerry

1:01:52

if their interaction was supposedly a

1:01:55

one-time encounter where they walked by each

1:01:57

other outside of Dave's apartment? That

1:02:00

would indicate, if Liz was

1:02:02

being truthful, that somehow Carrie

1:02:05

had tracked her down and gotten her information

1:02:07

and how that had happened. Well,

1:02:10

and I mentioned that Dave

1:02:12

and Liz hadn't been dating all that long.

1:02:15

Dave and Carrie had been dating

1:02:17

even less time. So

1:02:19

to think that in

1:02:21

that short period of time where

1:02:23

she had just started dating Dave,

1:02:26

she was so threatened by

1:02:28

this woman, Liz, that

1:02:30

she started this campaign of terror, just

1:02:34

none of it makes sense. Now,

1:02:36

obviously it doesn't make sense now because we

1:02:39

know the full story, but it really

1:02:41

doesn't make sense if you look at it from

1:02:43

the very beginning. And then,

1:02:45

you know, we've mentioned kind of the

1:02:48

fatal attraction aspect a couple of times.

1:02:50

You really get that sense. That

1:02:53

movie still today is

1:02:55

very scary in the fact

1:02:57

that someone could

1:03:00

become so fixate on

1:03:02

a person that they would

1:03:04

not only try to ruin

1:03:07

their life, they would try

1:03:09

to end their life and

1:03:11

maybe the lives of anyone

1:03:14

else around them. And that

1:03:16

fatal attraction movie is from what, 1987 or something like

1:03:18

that. If

1:03:21

they made that movie nowadays, there

1:03:23

would be a whole digital

1:03:25

aspect to it because you can do

1:03:27

a lot more things and cover your tracks from

1:03:30

the anonymity that, you

1:03:32

know, social media and emails

1:03:35

and cell phones can provide you.

1:03:37

Yeah, it's very easy to create

1:03:40

email accounts, right? What's

1:03:43

it take? Two minutes to

1:03:45

create an email account? You

1:03:47

know, as we wrap this one up while

1:03:50

doing the research for this case, I

1:03:52

thought it was very scary. The

1:03:55

links that this woman went

1:03:57

to, not to mention the fact

1:03:59

that that, you know, she took a

1:04:02

37 year old woman's life, a

1:04:04

mother, a daughter, and just

1:04:07

the elaborateness of

1:04:10

the coverup and all the stuff

1:04:12

she did, it was

1:04:15

just astounding to me. And I

1:04:17

also found it ironic that the

1:04:19

tools that she used, the

1:04:22

electronics, the phone, to harass

1:04:24

Dave is

1:04:27

what ultimately brought her down, because

1:04:29

she held on to that and it contained so

1:04:31

much information that was damning. Had

1:04:33

that not been there, had she just thrown

1:04:35

that into a river, would

1:04:37

she have been caught? You

1:04:40

know, it came down to one single

1:04:42

fingerprint being found in Carrie's

1:04:45

Explorer, and that could

1:04:47

have tied to her, but would that have been

1:04:49

enough to convict her of her murder, especially without

1:04:51

a body? But I think having

1:04:54

all the information on that phone was

1:04:57

what really solidified it and made the

1:04:59

case against her that much stronger. And

1:05:02

the picture that was found on that,

1:05:05

the card inside that tablet. But

1:05:08

again, that's keeping electronics.

1:05:11

And we're not trying to tell people

1:05:13

how to get away with murder, but she

1:05:16

obviously was somewhat intelligent to

1:05:19

pull all of this stuff

1:05:21

off, but at the same time, probably

1:05:24

thought she was much more intelligent

1:05:26

than what she really was, not

1:05:29

understanding law enforcement's

1:05:31

capability to get

1:05:34

to some of this stuff

1:05:36

that she probably thought she had covered up.

1:05:39

And it's a good thing when criminals make mistakes

1:05:41

so that they can get caught. No,

1:05:43

absolutely. But that's it for our

1:05:46

episode on the murder of Carrie

1:05:48

Farver, Liz Gullier. If

1:05:51

you love the show, but haven't done

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so yet, take a minute, go out,

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give us a five-star rating. You can

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leave a review as well. Also, keep...

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telling your friends. Word of mouth about

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the podcast really helps us out.

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If you want to find us on social media,

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we're on X with the handle at criminologypod. You

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can also find us

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on Facebook at facebook.com/criminologypodcast.

1:06:15

And you can join our Facebook

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discussion group, Criminology Podcast Discussion and

1:06:19

Fans. So that's it for

1:06:21

another episode of Criminology, but Morf and I

1:06:23

will be back with all of you next

1:06:25

Saturday night with a brand new episode. So

1:06:28

until then for Mike and Morf,

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we'll talk to you next week. Take care of

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