0:00

Criminology is a true crime podcast

0:02

that may contain discussion about violent or

0:04

disturbing topics. Listener discretion

0:06

is advised.

0:37

Hello, everyone, and welcome

0:39

to Episode 266 of the Criminology

0:41

Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

0:44

And this is Mike Morford. Mr. Mike

0:46

Morford. How are you doing, buddy? I'm doing

0:48

great. How you doing? No, I'm doing very well.

0:50

I'm really excited

0:53

to get into this case that we have for

0:55

everyone today. It's

0:57

a big one. Yeah, it's one we've been putting

0:59

off for a while because we're sort of waiting for

1:01

the next shoe to drop and then that

1:04

shoe definitely drop. So it's something

1:07

that we're going to have to tackle.

1:08

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout out. So we only had

1:11

one, but it was Judith

1:12

and we really appreciate that support.

1:15

Yeah, thank you so much, Judith. And thank you to

1:17

everyone else that supports criminology. You

1:20

can support the show also by going to

1:22

patreon.com slash criminology.

1:25

All right, we're jam-packed. So let's jump right

1:27

into this episode

1:28

because we are talking about such a big case

1:31

at the time that we're recording this. It

1:33

has been a really big week in the

1:36

world of true crime. A lot of headlines.

1:39

There was the strange disappearance of Carly

1:41

Russell, whose case in Alabama

1:43

generated a lot of media attention

1:46

before she suddenly turned back up

1:48

in the trial of Michael turning who many

1:50

people believe murdered his stepdaughter

1:53

Alyssa in 2001. We

1:55

saw a shocking acquittal

1:56

due to lack of evidence cited by

1:59

the judge. And he had

2:01

all of his charges dropped. And in the

2:03

I 70 serial killer case, police shared

2:06

a new possible clue with

2:07

the public on a people investigate

2:10

special

2:11

that the killer may have been driving a Cadillac

2:13

convertible with Florida tags and

2:17

may have had a female accomplice.

2:20

But all of that news seems to be

2:22

overshadowed by the arrest of

2:24

a suspect in the Gilgo beach

2:26

murders, which is sometimes referred to

2:28

as the long Island serial killer or

2:31

LISC case.

2:33

The developments and updates in this case are

2:35

coming in and changing by the day. So

2:37

by the time listeners hear this, there may be

2:39

even more things that come out regarding this case

2:42

or the suspect 59 year

2:44

old Rex Heurman. But in this episode,

2:46

we're going to try and bring listeners, everything, which

2:48

we know up to the minute. This was a cold

2:51

case, a set of cold cases really for

2:53

many years. And suddenly last weekend,

2:56

there was a suspect's name, a face,

2:58

an arrest and a plea. People

3:00

have been waiting for this day for over a decade, but

3:03

at the same time, many were shocked at the news.

3:06

And as we'll discuss the suspect is someone

3:08

who is not on police radar until recently

3:11

on Friday, July 14th, 2023, 59 year old Rex Andrew

3:13

Heurman was arrested

3:18

as he left his midtown Manhattan

3:20

office and headed to his massa

3:22

Piqua park home, the

3:24

heavy six foot four, six

3:26

foot six man was quickly surrounded

3:29

by men in black suits.

3:31

And I gave a couple of different

3:33

heights there because the reporting

3:35

has been all over the place. But when you look

3:37

at this guy,

3:38

he is a very big guy. I

3:40

wouldn't doubt if he's six,

3:43

six, and he is heavy. He saw

3:45

a few of

3:46

these men coming toward him and

3:48

trying to move out of their way. Probably

3:51

assuming that they were just men who worked together.

3:54

It's not rare to see men in suits

3:56

and midtown Manhattan. In fact, no

3:58

one around him seemed to know.

3:59

anything unusual about this

4:02

swarm of men and suits in

4:04

the bustling city. It almost just looked like

4:06

a group of people

4:07

waiting to cross the street, but

4:09

it was a task force of detectives

4:12

apprehending a suspect that they

4:14

believe to be one of the most infamous serial

4:16

killers of recent times.

4:18

Here are men wearing khaki pants, a button

4:21

up shirt, and carrying a back was

4:23

taken into custody outside of

4:25

his architecture firm without incident.

4:28

His head sticking up from the crowd of officers

4:30

due to his size. It was all recorded.

4:33

The alleged killer believed to be responsible

4:35

for taking the lives of the Gilgo Beach four

4:38

Marine brainer, Barnes,

4:40

Melissa, Bartholomew, Megan

4:42

Waterman, and Amber Costello had

4:44

been whisked off the streets. Here,

4:46

I'm in is currently only charged with the murders of Melissa,

4:49

Megan, and Amber, but investigators

4:51

are working hard to link him, their main suspect

4:53

to Marine's case with irrefutable

4:56

evidence. There's still a question of whether

4:58

he is the Long Island serial killer responsible

5:01

for the murders of even more victims found in

5:03

the same general area,

5:04

or whether there's a second killer out there that's

5:06

still waiting to be caught.

5:08

Though the bodies of murdered women,

5:11

all thought to be sex workers had been

5:13

being dumped in the area for years, the

5:16

sequence of events that led to identifying

5:19

Rex Heerman really began on

5:21

May 1st, 2010, when 23 year old

5:23

Shannon Gilbert

5:25

called 911 from a home

5:27

in a gated community in Oak beach.

5:30

After meeting with a client she had connected

5:32

with on Craigslist.

5:34

The segment we're going to play for you is almost six

5:36

minutes long and the sound quality is not

5:39

the best and it may be loud at times, but

5:41

we think it'll give listeners an idea of just

5:43

how intense and chaotic the situation

5:45

was and just how frightened Shannon

5:47

was when she made this call. Stay police. Super

5:49

fine.

5:50

Stay

5:53

police. Yeah, there's somebody after

5:55

me. I'm sorry? There's

5:58

somebody after me. Where are you?

6:01

There's somebody asking me. Okay, where

6:03

are you? There's

6:06

somebody asking me. Where are you ma'am? I

6:08

don't know. You're

6:11

driving right now? No, I'm inside the

6:13

house. I'm sorry?

6:16

I'm inside the house. What house? I

6:18

don't know. Can you trace where I am? I'm

6:21

sorry? Can you trace where I am? No,

6:24

I can't. What's your call back

6:26

number you're calling from?

6:27

Huh? What

6:29

phone number are you calling from? Somebody's

6:34

asking me. Please.

6:36

Are you in Suffolk County or Nassau

6:38

County? Um, I'm

6:40

in Long Island. Where on Long Island

6:43

are you?

6:43

Okay, I'm also

6:45

inside. No. Yeah,

6:47

I'm also inside. No.

6:51

No. No.

6:56

No, stop, no.

6:57

Where

7:01

on Long Island are you in Suffolk County, Nassau

7:03

County? Why? Why? Why?

7:07

Why? Why? Why?

7:10

Why?

7:10

County, you

7:13

on the line? Stop. Stop it, please.

7:16

Are you okay? I'm fine. I'm

7:18

fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

7:21

I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm

7:23

fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

7:26

Please. Are you okay? Please

7:28

stop. Oh, you're standing over

7:31

me.

7:32

Please. Can you show the door? No.

7:34

Time to go. Please.

7:37

Are you okay? Please. Please.

7:40

Please. Please. Go that

7:43

way, please. Okay. Go. Come

7:46

on. It's Joe. Come on. Well,

7:49

Nassau County. Come on. Go

7:51

inside. All the way. Come on.

7:54

All the way outside. Please. I'm fine.

7:57

I'm fine. I'm fine. Please.

8:01

Why? Why? County,

8:04

are you on the line? Why? Why?

8:08

Why? Why? Why?

8:11

Why? Why

8:13

do I do this to

8:16

me? What? What

8:18

county are you in, ma'am? I'm

8:23

doing this. Why? Doing

8:26

this.

8:26

What county are you in, ma'am?

8:27

I'm doing this. Why

8:31

do you call me by my name? Please.

8:39

Please. What did you mean? Oh,

8:41

please. No, stop it.

8:42

Please. Please. Stop

8:45

it. Please. Stop it. Please

8:48

stop it. No, no, no, no. Please

8:51

stop it. Please stop

8:53

it. No, we fix that. Please

8:56

stop it. No, please stop it. Please

8:58

stop it. Please. What are you guys doing to me?

9:02

What are you guys doing to me? Stop it.

9:05

Wait. Get him

9:07

out of here.

9:09

Come on. Of

9:12

course. Come

9:15

on. Har

9:22

You're dead. Where

9:27

are you going to go?

9:29

Were

9:32

you going to fallin'? If

9:35

you don't on He growing a Dr Gatista..

9:40

Charlie!? Why

9:42

are you going to go? Charlie's stuck

9:44

in the water. What are you doing? What? Are

9:47

you freaking me out? Come on. I'm

9:49

in the middle of nowhere. Let's go back to your boat. Let's

9:51

go back to Manhattan. Alright? We're

9:54

in Long Island. We're up near the water. I'm

9:56

in the ocean. Name's S.A.A.T.

10:15

Great.

10:31

Five. Five. Five. Five.

10:35

Five. Seven. Five.

10:38

Seven. Five. Five.

10:41

He's freaking back. Come on. I'm in

10:43

the middle of nowhere.

10:44

Where are you Shannon?

10:46

Shannon. Shannon.

10:49

Shannon. Shannon.

10:59

Somebody here for you? Huh?

11:05

Hello? Hello?

11:09

I'm with you. You

11:11

are here with you?

11:14

I'm with you right now. Don't get yourself hurt. Where

11:16

are you going?

11:17

Wait

11:21

a minute. How

11:23

are you going? What are you doing? Something

11:27

like, don't hurt.

11:28

D-O-P-E-R.

11:39

In that audio that you just heard,

11:42

Shannon seems terrified about something

11:45

or someone scared enough to run

11:47

from her client, Joseph Brewer's

11:49

home and run away from her driver

11:51

who had brought her to the home, someone she

11:53

trusted to take her to jobs at night.

11:56

She seemed to think that both her client and

11:58

driver

11:59

were trying to kill her. her. She sounded

12:01

intoxicated.

12:03

She was slurring her words, not making

12:05

a lot of sense. As she spoke to the dispatcher,

12:08

she didn't seem to know exactly where she

12:10

was.

12:11

Part of the call includes her talking

12:13

to at least two males in the background

12:16

during other portions of this call, which

12:19

lasted several minutes in total. Shannon

12:21

is running down the street, reportedly

12:23

banging on doors of various homes,

12:27

almost 20 minutes after initially calling 911,

12:30

still on the line with them but not responding to

12:32

dispatchers, Shannon knocks on

12:34

resident Gus Coletti's door. He

12:36

lives at the very end of the road she's running down.

12:39

He asks Shannon if someone was after her, but

12:41

she was so out of breath she didn't say much. Besides,

12:44

I need help. She had started the 911

12:46

call with somebody's after me, so

12:48

it was odd not to hear her immediately agree with

12:51

Gus, who was saying the exact same thing.

12:53

She stopped responding to Gus and ran away from

12:55

his home into the night.

12:57

He yelled to her to try and get her to stop,

12:59

but lost sight of her. Gus then called 911

13:02

reporting what he described as a 14-year-old

13:04

female being chased. He mentioned

13:06

a man following her. This turned out to

13:08

be her driver, Michael Pack.

13:11

As Shannon fled, she ran past

13:13

the entrance to the development, which

13:15

would have been the easiest way to get out of

13:17

the area,

13:18

but instead managed to run to a third

13:20

home and knock on the door, the woman

13:23

there, Barbara Brennan, also

13:25

called 911 and reported the

13:27

woman in danger.

13:28

Barbara didn't let her in. She was worried

13:30

about her elderly mother who was in the

13:33

home with her. Shannon left Barbara

13:35

Brennan's home, and after a total of 23 minutes

13:38

on the phone with 911, Shannon's

13:41

call disconnected.

13:42

After that, she ran off into

13:44

the darkness and disappeared.

13:46

Police headed out to the scene to figure out

13:49

what happened and to try to find

13:51

Shannon.

13:52

area

14:00

were done. One of the searches on December 11,

14:04

2010 led to a shocking discovery. A

14:06

Suffolk County Police Department canine

14:08

officer named Blue alerted the

14:10

human remains about three miles from Oak Beach.

14:13

Authorities found the skeleton of a young woman,

14:16

and they determined that the remains were not those of

14:18

Shannon Gilbert. At the time, no

14:20

identity could be determined and she was called

14:22

Jane Doe. It was clear that her death was

14:24

a homicide, although no official cause

14:27

of death was listed. Her body, including

14:29

her legs, ankles, and feet, had

14:31

been bound by belt. A female

14:33

hair that was not hers was found on the buckle

14:36

of one of the belts.

14:37

The remains of this Jane Doe would

14:39

later be identified as

14:41

25-year-old Maureen Brainerd Barnes.

14:44

Maureen was last seen on July 9, 2007, at

14:46

the Super 8

14:48

Motel in Midtown Manhattan.

14:51

She was heading home to Connecticut. She

14:53

had been robbed earlier that day and

14:55

decided not to stay in the city. To meet

14:58

a client she was supposed to meet, she

15:00

called her sister Missy from Penn Station,

15:02

but never made it home. A few days

15:04

later, her friend Sarah Carnes received

15:07

a call from an unknown male

15:09

claiming that Maureen was in

15:12

Queens.

15:12

The man would give no further information

15:15

and said he would call back, but he never did.

15:18

Somehow, she ended up dead,

15:20

hidden in the brush on Gilgo Beach.

15:23

The search for Shannon Gilbert continued, and

15:25

as it did, on December 13, just three days

15:28

after Maureen Brainerd Barnes' body was

15:30

found, more bodies turned up. Three

15:33

more bodies, all wrapped in camouflage

15:35

burlap and bound with clear tape

15:37

at the head, chest, and legs, were

15:39

found within 500 feet of one another.

15:42

Near where Maureen's remains had been found,

15:44

each victim was between 22 to 33 feet from the road. Initially,

15:47

they were called

15:50

Jane Doe II, III, and

15:52

IV. They would publicly be identified

15:54

as Melissa Bartholomew, Megan

15:56

Waterman, and Amber Costello on

15:58

January 25, 2007. 2011, four

16:01

bodies had been found in the search for Shannon Gilbert,

16:04

but she remained missing. So we

16:06

start with a very confusing,

16:09

a very long 911 call

16:12

from Shannon Gilbert.

16:14

The police are out looking for her. They

16:16

don't find her, but what they do

16:19

find are the bodies of

16:21

four women who have been murdered.

16:24

And I think it had to be clear to police that

16:26

these bodies are sort of clustered together.

16:29

So it seems like it's a dumping

16:31

ground for a serial killer. That's

16:33

what comes to my mind. And I'm sure that's what

16:35

police thought. You look at people like Ted

16:38

Bundy, other serial killers that dump bodies.

16:40

They usually have a specific area,

16:42

specific spot. They feel comfortable

16:44

dumping these bodies and to see these all clustered

16:47

together like that, you know,

16:49

probably alerted police that they've

16:51

got a serial killer operating here. So

16:53

let's talk more about the victims that

16:56

were found. 24 year old

16:58

Melissa Bartholomew was last

17:00

seen on July 12th, 2009, outside of

17:03

her under Hill Avenue apartment.

17:05

She was captured by security cameras,

17:08

depositing a thousand dollars into

17:10

her bank account

17:11

and withdrawing 100

17:13

before leaving her boyfriend. John

17:16

Terry claimed she had a job lined

17:18

up for the 13th and long Island

17:20

that would have paid $1,000.

17:23

It's unknown if she ever made it there because people

17:25

who pay for sex work aren't exactly

17:27

lining up to participate with

17:30

investigations after her disappearance,

17:33

Melissa sister, Amanda received

17:35

multiple calls from an unknown man

17:38

using Melissa's cell phone.

17:40

The calls came just days after

17:42

Melissa went missing.

17:44

One call came in on

17:46

July 16th, one on the 19th, one on the 23rd,

17:48

with the final

17:52

call on August 26th. In

17:55

this last call, the man told Amanda

17:57

he killed Melissa authorities.

17:59

were able to ping the phone when

18:02

it accessed Melissa's voicemail,

18:04

but we're only able to trace

18:06

it to the Massapequa park

18:08

area.

18:09

22 year old Megan Waterman was last seen

18:11

on June 6th, 2010, leaving the Holiday

18:15

Inn Express and Hot Pog

18:17

around 1 31 AM. She

18:19

was just going to convenience store nearby, but

18:21

she never returned. She also never

18:23

called her three year old daughter who was waiting for her at

18:25

home and Scarborough remain. There was

18:27

a female hair that was not hers found on

18:30

her head and a second hair on the tape

18:32

that was secured on the area around her head.

18:35

27 year old Amber Costello was last

18:37

seen around 10 30 PM

18:39

on September 2nd, 2010, leaving

18:42

her apartment in North Babylon on

18:44

her way to meet a client who was parked

18:47

down the street.

18:47

She vanished. She didn't have her

18:50

phone with her because she shared it with

18:52

another female roommate to contact clients.

18:55

And she already had her clients lined up

18:57

for the night.

18:58

A female hair was found inside

19:00

the burlap that she was wrapped

19:02

in.

19:03

So I think we have to take a minute here

19:05

more. If we talked about

19:06

four victims and at

19:09

least two of the victims families were

19:12

contacted by an unknown

19:14

male. And I always find that odd.

19:17

You know, is this the killer trying

19:19

to mess with the family

19:23

or, you know, get some kind of sick

19:25

perverse thrill out

19:28

of calling them and, and

19:30

telling them what he had done or,

19:33

you know, something along those lines,

19:36

or was this someone who was not

19:39

involved in their death at all and

19:42

just messing with the family because

19:44

it happens both ways. I don't

19:46

quite understand either one. And

19:49

I'm not sure what

19:51

it is in this case. I think either

19:53

way, you've got to be a pretty twisted

19:55

person to call somebody's family and

19:58

either, either being the real.

19:59

killer saying you killed their family

20:02

member or just

20:04

someone that's playing a cruel hoax and

20:06

making up a story like that just to torment

20:09

a family. Either way, it's pretty

20:11

demented.

20:12

More remains would be found in the area. On

20:15

March 30, 2011, as a

20:17

search for Shannon Gilbert pressed on, searchers

20:19

found hands, a forearm, and

20:22

a skull just under a mile away from the other four

20:24

bodies

20:25

that were found in burlap.

20:26

These remains were determined not to be Shannon

20:28

Gilbert's. Medical examiners determined

20:31

that they were additional remains of Jessica

20:33

Taylor, whose torso was found on a plastic

20:36

sheet in Manorville on July 25, 2003.

20:39

On July 15, 2003, Jessica

20:42

was heading from Washington, D.C.

20:44

to Poughkeepsie, New York, where she lived

20:46

before she ran away as a teen.

20:48

On the way home to Poughkeepsie,

20:50

Jessica's car broke down and she managed

20:52

to hitchhike to Brooklyn.

20:53

She was then seen at the Port Authority bus terminal

20:55

in Manhattan. Some of her body was

20:58

found about a month after that, but she

21:00

wasn't identified for another seven months

21:02

due to it only being her torso that was recovered,

21:05

and also because her killer had mutilated the

21:07

tattoo on her hip that would have sped up

21:09

identification. Ultimately, it was

21:11

the detective who realized that the hands, forearm,

21:14

and skull found in the search for Shannon Gilbert

21:17

might be additional missing remains of Jessica Taylor,

21:19

and he was right. On April 4,

21:23

2011, three more bodies were found, but

21:26

again, none of them belonged to Shannon

21:28

Gilbert.

21:29

The bodies were of a female toddler,

21:31

an Asian male wearing women's

21:33

clothing, and the hands, foot,

21:36

and skull of a female dubbed

21:38

Manorville Jane Doe, whose partial

21:40

remains had been found eight years

21:43

earlier in 2003.

21:45

Manorville Jane Doe's initial remains

21:47

were discovered along Ocean Parkway,

21:50

between Gilgo Beach and Oak

21:52

Beach.

21:53

Manorville Jane Doe's body had

21:55

been dismembered and discarded in multiple

21:58

plastic bags.

21:59

bill on November 19th, 2003. The

22:03

Asian male was determined to be between 17

22:05

and 23 years old, may have been

22:08

a transgender woman, but

22:10

only a sketch with short hair and

22:12

a male presentation was released to

22:15

the media. He is still unidentified

22:17

today. The toddler

22:19

between 16 and 32 months

22:21

old was found wrapped in a blanket with

22:24

no signs of trauma.

22:26

By this point, police knew that they had one

22:28

or more serial killers at work discarding

22:30

bodies in the area's beaches.

22:33

They pressed on, however, in the search for Shannon Gilbert.

22:36

On April 11th, 2011, bones

22:39

from a female body and female jewelry

22:41

were found inside a plastic bag near the water

22:43

tower at Jones Beach.

22:45

This victim was dubbed Jane Doe 3. The

22:48

toddler, Baby Doe, found a week earlier,

22:50

was discovered through a DNA match to be the

22:53

daughter of Jane Doe number 3.

22:55

DNA from Jane Doe 3 matched the partial

22:57

remains of yet another unidentified murder

22:59

victim found in the area. A black

23:02

woman known as Peaches, due to a tattoo

23:04

she had on her breast, which was a juicy

23:06

peach with a bite taken out of it. Peaches

23:09

was dismembered by her killer. Her torso

23:11

had been found on June 28th, 1997, in a green plastic tub left near the

23:16

side of the road

23:18

in Hempstead Lake State Park.

23:19

Also on April 11th, 2011,

23:22

a skull was found east of Tobay Beach.

23:25

This was determined to be the skull belonging to a woman

23:27

who had been dubbed Fire Island Jane Doe.

23:30

Her legs were found wrapped in a plastic bag

23:32

west of Davis Park beach

23:34

on April 20th, 1996.

23:37

Hey guys, this is John Campia. The summer movie

23:39

season is fully underway and we're covering it

23:41

every weekday on the John Campia show. Fast

23:44

X, the new Fast and Furious movie, Transformers

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and the Dial of Destiny Plus, Marvel series,

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Secret Invasion premieres on June 21st

23:53

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23:57

That's C A M P E A. your

24:00

podcast app.

24:19

Hello

24:33

there music fans and podcast

24:36

listeners. Did you know studies

24:38

show that listening to music can reduce anxiety

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and improve mental health? And did

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have a study to back it up, that listening

24:47

to me, therapy Jeff, and

24:49

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24:51

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out. Listen to our weekly podcast,

24:58

This Changes Everything.

25:00

On April 12th, 2011, with

25:03

her daughter still missing,

25:04

Marie Gilbert spoke to the media

25:07

about a call she received from Oak Beach

25:09

resident, Dr. Peter Hackett.

25:12

She claimed that he called her and told her

25:14

that he had treated Shannon,

25:16

possibly giving her medication

25:18

at a home he ran for Wayward Girls.

25:21

Hackett denied this conversation for three

25:23

months, eventually admitting the call

25:25

to CBS News, but claiming he

25:28

was trying to be supportive.

25:29

On December 6th, 2011, the

25:32

search for Shannon Gilbert moved back

25:34

to Oak Beach, where she was last seen

25:36

and from where she had called 911. Investigators

25:40

searching the marshland there found items

25:43

belonging to Shannon. And on December

25:45

13th,

25:46

Shannon's body was found about a quarter

25:48

of a mile away from her things. Police

25:51

Commissioner Dormer, before an autopsy

25:53

was even completed,

25:55

publicly stated Shannon's death

25:57

was accidental and not a murder. Soon

25:59

after, And after on January 1st, 2012, Edward

26:03

Weber took dormer's place as

26:05

Suffolk County Interim Commissioner.

26:08

On May 1st, 2012, Shannon's

26:10

autopsy results were announced. No

26:13

cause of death was determined. On November

26:16

15th, Marie Gilbert filed a lawsuit against

26:18

the Suffolk County Police Department. She

26:20

wanted more information, and she wanted to

26:22

hear the 911 call, which hadn't been released

26:24

to the public yet. In September 2014,

26:28

renowned forensic pathologist Michael

26:30

Boden conducted a second independent

26:32

autopsy of Shannon Gilbert. He

26:34

found that her hyoid bone had been damaged,

26:37

which could indicate strangulation, and

26:39

that the position she was found in, face up,

26:42

was not normal for drowning victims. Despite

26:44

Boden's thoughts that Shannon may have been the victim of

26:47

homicide, the manner and cause of death

26:49

were not changed. And I think more

26:51

of a lot of true crime fans will

26:53

know who Michael Boden is, you know,

26:56

that show that he used to have on HBO.

26:59

I don't know if you watched that one autopsy. I

27:01

was enthralled by it. Yeah, it was really

27:04

in depth and they talk about these fascinating

27:06

cases and he discussed

27:09

those deaths and what he found. I remember

27:11

that show well.

27:12

On December 9th, 2014,

27:14

former Suffolk Police Commissioner James

27:17

Burke was indicted on charges

27:19

of police brutality after someone

27:21

stole a duffel bag full of sex

27:23

toys and pornographic material

27:26

from his car.

27:27

A year later, an escort

27:30

would come forward about his involvement

27:32

with sex work on Oak Beach.

27:34

Burke was said to be responsible for

27:37

keeping the FBI out of the search

27:39

for Shannon in the subsequent

27:41

investigation of the many murders uncovered.

27:44

This is possibly to hide his

27:46

own shady dealings, but many were

27:48

suspicious of police involvement and

27:51

a coverup in Shannon's death.

27:53

Some others even felt that James

27:56

Burke himself or a higher up

27:58

in the police department may

27:59

been involved in the murders of the young

28:02

women

28:03

whose bodies had turned up.

28:04

After Shannon Gilbert's remains were found,

28:07

no more bodies turned up in the area. The

28:09

case cooled off amidst concerns and

28:12

accusations of cover-up or mishandling

28:14

in the case. This case became a favorite

28:16

for online sleuths, discussed in great

28:18

detail on sites like Websleuths. The

28:21

moniker given to the killer, or killers if

28:23

there was more than one, was the Long

28:25

Island Serial Killer, or LISC for

28:27

short.

28:28

Like the original victims found on Gilgo

28:30

Beach, dubbed the Gilgo Four,

28:32

while the police had faced suspicion and accusations

28:35

for their handling of the case, behind the

28:37

scenes, they continued to work the case

28:39

doggedly. On January 16, 2020, Suffolk

28:43

County Police Commissioner Geraldine

28:45

Hart released

28:46

an image of a belt that

28:48

was found with the remains of Maureen

28:50

Brainerd Barnes. It was an older

28:53

looking white leather belt, with the

28:55

initials WH or HM

28:58

on the end.

28:59

A new website dedicated to the

29:01

case, GilgoNews.com,

29:03

was also announced at the same time.

29:05

On May 6 of that year, a judge

29:08

finally ruled that the 911 call

29:10

Shannon made should be released

29:12

to the public. Before this, all

29:15

that was known was that she frantically called 911

29:17

and then vanished.

29:20

Later that month, on May 28,

29:22

Manorville Jane Doe, also

29:24

known as Jane Doe No. 6, was

29:27

publicly identified as 24-year-old

29:29

Valerie Mack.

29:31

She was last seen in the spring or summer

29:33

of 2000 in Port Republic,

29:36

New Jersey, but was never reported

29:38

missing.

29:39

This identification was made

29:41

using genetic genealogy. In

29:44

January 2022, a task

29:47

force was formed to investigate the Lisk-Gilgo

29:49

Beach case with fresh eyes. By

29:52

March of that year, Rex

29:53

Hirerman, who was arrested last

29:55

week, was in their sights,

29:57

thanks to one or more tips.

29:59

on their list of suspects before

30:01

that. It was March 14th, 2022,

30:04

to be specific, that investigators

30:06

discovered a Chevy Avalanche registered

30:08

to his address in Massapequa Park. The

30:11

Chevy Avalanche has an interesting feature.

30:13

You can access the bed of the truck without

30:16

ever getting out. There's a removable

30:18

partition between the cab and the bed. Investigators

30:21

were so excited about Rex Hiram and as a suspect,

30:23

in part because of this truck.

30:25

A possible witness in Amber Costello's

30:28

case, one of her roommates at the time, known

30:31

publicly only as Dave, described

30:33

the client that Amber was going to meet. He

30:35

said that the man looked like an

30:38

ogre

30:38

with bushy hair and was between

30:41

six foot four and six foot six.

30:43

This was the second time she was supposed

30:45

to see the same client.

30:48

The man had come to the home around midnight

30:51

on September 2nd to pay Amber

30:53

for sex work, but she and her roommates,

30:56

Dave and Bear, scammed him.

30:57

This was something that they would do often

31:00

after Amber had obtained the payment.

31:02

But before any sexual acts took place,

31:05

one of the men and sometimes both would

31:08

barge in angrily, acting

31:10

like they had caught their girlfriend with another

31:12

man. Most of the time the men

31:14

would leave in fear or embarrassment

31:17

and not really care about the money they

31:19

just lost. Instead,

31:21

they would just be happy to get out of that situation.

31:24

This time though, the size

31:27

of the client changed things. He

31:29

wasn't scared of them. He didn't want

31:31

trouble though. So he calmly told

31:33

them

31:34

that he was just her friend and

31:36

left.

31:37

When the man left, he got into

31:39

a Chevy Avalanche.

31:41

After driving off in the Avalanche, the

31:43

client texted Amber writing, that was

31:45

not nice to do and he requested

31:47

a credit for their next meeting

31:50

and there was a next meeting,

31:51

Amber agreed to see him again. The client

31:54

wanted to see Amber and offered her $1,500,

31:56

which was well over her normal rate. If

31:59

she took this job.

31:59

She could take a few days off.

32:01

So it was hard for her to turn it down.

32:03

But this time the client insisted that she

32:05

do an out call where she would meet him

32:08

elsewhere. He didn't want to come back to the house

32:10

because of the previous incident. She agreed

32:12

to go meet him and walk down the street away

32:14

from the apartment. A short while later,

32:16

a dark avalanche, like the one the client

32:19

drove the night before, drove past

32:21

from that direction. She disappeared

32:23

that night. It wasn't until the task

32:25

force reinterviewed Dave that they realized the truck

32:27

they were looking for was a first generation

32:30

Chevy avalanche.

32:31

During this interview, a better description of

32:33

the client they scanned was also given.

32:36

This helped them find Rex Herman and

32:38

they slowly began to investigate him obtaining

32:40

warrants to track much of his electronics activity

32:43

and cell phone usage,

32:45

keeping all of it quiet and out of the media as

32:47

not to tip him off. So I think

32:49

more, if you know what amazes me about

32:52

this information that came

32:54

out about Rex here, man, was

32:56

that, you know, police were looking

32:59

into him as far back

33:02

as March, 2022.

33:05

We obviously already said they arrested him last

33:07

week. So it was

33:08

well over a year

33:10

that they were investigating him.

33:12

And like you said, they

33:14

were able to keep all of it quiet,

33:17

which is pretty amazing that

33:20

someone didn't slip

33:22

up and tell someone and it get

33:25

out to the media in this day and age. Yeah,

33:27

because we all know from the

33:30

pressers often leaks in the press

33:33

have inside sources that say, you know,

33:35

they'll say they're looking at a suspect. And

33:37

the last thing they want to do is have this guy

33:39

tipped off. So he starts getting rid of evidence,

33:42

trying to cover his tracks, that kind of thing. So it seems

33:44

like they were very patient and

33:46

thorough in investigating him.

33:49

Investigators searching records of those

33:52

who visited Gilgo news.com,

33:54

which the Suffolk County police department put

33:57

together and maintains found that

33:59

here, men's.

33:59

Home IP address had accessed

34:02

the site on May 23rd and July 3rd, 2020.

34:07

He was looking into the case,

34:09

but that's not all. Looking at cell phone

34:11

records were revealing.

34:13

Melissa Bartholomew, Megan

34:15

Waterman, and Amber Costello

34:17

were all contacted by the

34:20

same phone number, a phone number that was

34:22

connected to a burner phone with

34:24

no registered name.

34:25

Writing records for Heerman's personal

34:28

cell phone showed the same general

34:30

location of the burner phone at

34:32

various times, when calls were

34:34

made from the burner that contacted

34:37

three of the victims.

34:38

Records for the phone used to contact

34:41

Maureen no longer existed by

34:43

the time authorities looked for them.

34:45

One of the burner phones linked to Heerman was

34:48

pinged at West Babylon near Amber

34:50

Costello's apartment around

34:52

11.17pm on the night she vanished.

34:54

Critics believe that Heerman had

34:56

also contacted victim Maureen Brainard

34:58

Barnes 16 times

35:00

over the three days before she disappeared and

35:03

Melissa Bartholomew over an entire

35:05

week leading up to her disappearance. The

35:07

task force now had a suspect who they believed

35:10

could be connected to multiple victims. Heerman's

35:12

personal cell phone was also in the same location

35:15

as Melissa's and Maureen's phones

35:17

when they were used to access her voicemail

35:20

and make calls to their family and friends. In

35:22

fact, every single time one

35:24

of the victims' phones was used after they vanished,

35:27

Heerman's phone was in the same area as their phones.

35:30

And when I say in the same area, Melissa's

35:32

phone connected to a tower just 872 feet from Heerman's

35:36

office at the time. The mystery burner

35:38

phone connected to the same tower multiple

35:41

times

35:42

and Heerman's personal phone had activity

35:44

on the same tower at that time. But

35:46

it wasn't just the activity on Heerman's phone

35:48

that lined up.

35:49

It was also the lack of activity in the

35:51

phones that also lined up. When

35:53

Heerman left for a trip to Iceland on August

35:56

10th, 2009, all activity on Melissa

35:59

Bartholomew's phone stopped.

36:01

He returned on August 18th and

36:03

a call from Melissa's phone was made the very

36:05

next day. As you can hear, the

36:07

investigation in Rex Hiraman was quite

36:09

extensive and high-tech. It involved

36:12

more than 300 legal processes like

36:14

subpoenas and search warrants. Working

36:16

backwards from his billing records, investigators

36:19

were able to find that his American Express card

36:21

was used by Google Pay each month to pay

36:24

for Tinder. The email used for the

36:26

Tinder account was also used to open an AOL

36:28

account on the burner phone. Hiraman's

36:31

own phone was used to access that email

36:33

account on December 11th, 2022

36:36

for around three hours.

36:37

Now they had not only his phone and the burner

36:39

phone in the same area in a crowded city. They

36:42

had both phones logging into the same email

36:44

address. Investigators covertly

36:46

telling him also watched Hiraman purchase

36:49

minutes for his burner phone at a cell phone store

36:51

on May 19th, 2023. This was also captured by the store's

36:55

security cameras. Finally, searching

36:58

the AOL account on that phone, investigators

37:01

found selfies of Hiraman in the sent folder.

37:04

A Gmail account was created on

37:06

the phone and used to search for pornography

37:09

and sex workers. Some of the searches

37:11

are mostly innocuous like mature

37:13

escorts Manhattan, while others

37:15

are disturbing.

37:17

Out of thousands of queries Hiraman

37:19

is alleged to have made,

37:21

only 30 have been

37:23

shared with the public. Some of the searches

37:26

were for things like sexually

37:28

graphic images of children with

37:31

ages as young as 10.

37:33

A few of the pornography searches

37:35

specify tied up,

37:37

which may give us a clue into

37:39

why four bodies found at Gilgo Beach

37:42

were found bound the way they were.

37:45

Some of the searches aren't even inherently

37:47

sexual,

37:48

just creepy. And they make people wonder

37:51

just exactly what he was trying

37:53

to find. For example, blonde

37:55

hair girl young depressed

37:57

is listed.

37:58

Was this in an.

37:59

image search, a specific

38:02

pornography website.

38:04

Please haven't specified

38:06

these searches, especially the

38:08

ones about young girls paint a

38:10

very disturbing picture

38:11

of Rex Herman though,

38:14

all four victims at Gogo beach

38:16

were all over 18.

38:18

Melissa Bartholomew was just four

38:20

feet, 10 inches tall,

38:22

Maureen, Brainerd Barnes and

38:24

Amber Costello, just four feet, 11

38:27

inches.

38:28

They were petite women and they looked

38:30

young.

38:31

The same Google account that search for escorts

38:33

and porn was also used to keep tabs

38:36

on the investigation into the murders.

38:38

Over 200 searches were conducted, including

38:40

why could law enforcement not

38:42

trace the calls made by the Long Island serial

38:45

killer? This last search is timely

38:47

because as Rex Herman found out the hard

38:49

way, they can and they did. He

38:52

also read the Fox news article published on

38:54

October 23rd, 2021 titled in Long

38:58

Island serial killer investigation, new

39:00

phone technology may be key to breaking

39:02

case. The article detailed how

39:04

Suffolk County district attorney Timothy

39:07

Cini invested $300,000 in technology

39:10

to use cell phone data in the case. You'd

39:12

think Rex Herman would be getting nervous,

39:15

but he was still actively using his burner phones

39:18

to contact sex workers at the time he was arrested.

39:20

On July 21st, 2022, investigators took 11 empty bottles

39:23

that had been left outside

39:27

the Herman home for trash collection

39:30

and obtain DNA samples from

39:32

them.

39:33

Some of the DNA obtained from the bottles

39:36

produced a female profile that matched

39:38

the female hairs found on some

39:40

of the bodies and on the belt used

39:43

to tie one victim.

39:44

That DNA profile matched

39:46

here, man's wife's DNA.

39:48

The DNA from the hairs when the bodies

39:50

were originally found was degraded

39:53

due to the length of time the bodies had

39:55

been out exposed to the elements.

39:58

Mitochondrial DNA was the only.

39:59

only method to extract a profile.

40:02

And it wasn't advanced enough when

40:04

the hairs were first discovered, but

40:07

as technology and advances

40:09

in DNA science evolved, investigators

40:11

were able to do more with the DNA

40:14

because here, his wife had been

40:16

out of the state or even out of the

40:18

country with her children during

40:21

many of the dates of the murders. It's

40:23

believed that Rex Herman either brought

40:25

the victims to his home

40:27

where they came into contact with Rex's

40:30

wife's hair and picked it up,

40:32

or they were in his truck

40:34

at some point and her hair transferred

40:37

onto them.

40:38

We're not going to mention the names of Herman's

40:41

wife or his kids at all in this episode,

40:44

because they are victims of another kind

40:46

in all of this

40:48

and their lives

40:49

undoubtedly have been turned upside

40:52

down.

40:52

And I know more if that, you know, Rex

40:55

here, I'm in has only been charged at

40:57

this point,

40:58

but I do want to talk about

41:01

some of the work done to

41:04

get to that point where they, they could charge

41:06

him. Obviously we talked in, in

41:08

detail about the cell phone

41:11

data that was analyzed, but

41:13

you know, it's these hairs

41:15

that turned out to ultimately be

41:18

from his wife that are

41:20

extremely fascinating. And this

41:23

is a, an area where, you

41:25

know, I just don't think a lot of people,

41:28

killers, criminals understand

41:32

the transference of

41:34

things from, you know, the home,

41:36

the truck to victims.

41:40

I don't know how many people think about that.

41:42

And if he turns out to be guilty, it'll

41:45

be one of the, the big

41:48

evidence points used against him.

41:50

And I think there was some speculation too,

41:52

when some of these female hairs were found

41:55

on these victims that maybe

41:57

there was an accomplice, maybe this.

41:59

This killer had a

42:02

a female that was actively participating

42:05

in the murders but I think

42:07

it's clear that this is just transfer

42:09

and His wife had an alibi

42:11

being out of the state out of the country when some of

42:13

these murders happen So it

42:16

you know is an innocent

42:17

transfer on her part. No no

42:20

knowledge or participation in the crimes

42:22

Well, and I think the other point to

42:25

talk about is his wife

42:27

and children

42:28

I mean how shocking would that be you're

42:31

married to this man the

42:33

husband the father of your

42:35

children and then all of a sudden

42:37

you find out that Your

42:40

dad your husband has

42:42

been charged with what are really

42:45

Absolutely heinous crimes. Yeah,

42:48

we've talked about so many cases

42:50

over the years and heard about so many cases of serial

42:53

killers that aren't loners

42:55

they they usually in many cases

42:58

have families careers

43:00

and You

43:02

have to think that they're those families

43:04

Why have children are just blindsided

43:06

by this, you know, it's sort of reminiscent

43:09

with

43:09

the Golden State Killer or BTK You

43:12

know Here's this life that these

43:15

these people have and then it shattered

43:17

when they find out that someone they love

43:20

is this monster

43:21

and I'm always fascinated by You

43:24

know this notion that a serial

43:26

killer can Separate

43:29

these lines, you know be a good

43:32

husband and a good dad at home

43:35

But then be out murdering people

43:38

a real Dr. Jekyll,

43:40

mr. Hyde situation What

43:42

does it take to be able to pull that off?

43:45

I don't know the answer to that It's just it's a fascinating

43:48

question to me and I heard somebody

43:50

mention in a conversation

43:52

yesterday that In a way the

43:54

police officers that investigate these

43:57

cases

43:58

Sort of have to do the same thing have to compartmentalize

44:02

dealing with these gruesome crimes and then

44:04

they have to go home to their families

44:06

and be a dad, be

44:08

a husband, take their kids out, play

44:11

catch, whatever they're doing, and sort of leave

44:13

that other part of their life behind investigating

44:15

these cases. So it's, it was a fascinating

44:18

yin

44:18

and yang to detectives

44:21

investigating these killers and the killers themselves,

44:24

how they have to sort of have these separate

44:26

personalities. Yeah. Ah, that's

44:28

a great point. We say

44:30

we want to be challenged. We say we want to hear

44:33

all sides, but that's not how we

44:35

act when we seek out podcasts.

44:37

I'm Mike Pesca, host of the gist, and I'm

44:40

crazy enough to think that we

44:42

are up to the challenge. I challenge myself.

44:45

I challenge my guests. I invite you

44:47

in. We'll talk about such issues as masks.

44:50

I mean, I know they work, but on a population

44:52

level, the evidence is less than clear mass

44:55

shootings, horrible, but they account

44:57

for less than 1% of all shootings.

45:00

Do we do ourselves

45:00

and our society a disservice when

45:02

we focus on them? These questions

45:04

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45:35

In January, 2023, investigators were able to collect

45:38

a DNA sample from pizza crust

45:41

that Rex Herriman left in a pizza box he

45:43

threw away outside his office.

45:45

They used it to compare against male DNA collected

45:47

in the case.

45:48

On June 12th, the results were

45:50

back. They had definitive proof.

45:53

His DNA matched the DNA of a hair

45:56

found underneath Megan Waterman's body inside

45:58

the burlap she was wrapped in.

46:00

Ironically, a

46:01

pizza crust was also used to help nab

46:03

the grim sleeper, Lonnie Franklin, in 2010.

46:06

When Rex Hyrman was arrested in July 2023,

46:10

he had the burner phone that was used to log into

46:13

the AOL account with him. Looking

46:15

at the timing of the arrest, it's easy to wonder

46:17

if investigators were trying to stop an impending

46:19

murder. Maureen, Melissa,

46:22

Megan, and Amber had all disappeared

46:24

in the summer. Hyrman was actively

46:26

contacting sex workers, and there's

46:28

been reports that his wife was about to take another

46:30

long trip. So perhaps that's

46:32

why police decided to arrest him now, in

46:35

case he was planning another murder.

46:37

As we mentioned earlier,

46:39

Hyrman's wife took trips often,

46:41

sometimes to Maryland or New Jersey,

46:44

but also to visit family in Iceland.

46:46

These overseas trips were longer,

46:49

and usually over the summer. From

46:51

July 8th to August 18th, 2009, she was in Iceland.

46:56

This is when Melissa Bartholomew

46:58

disappeared. She was in Maryland

47:01

from June 4th to June 8th, 2010,

47:04

during the period when Megan Waterman

47:07

disappeared. From August 28th, 2010,

47:09

to September 5th,

47:12

when Amber Costella went missing, Hyrman's

47:15

wife was in New Jersey.

47:17

If the task force hadn't swooped in

47:19

and apprehended Rex Hyrman, perhaps

47:22

he would have led them to more clues or evidence,

47:25

but it may have meant

47:27

additional victims. And

47:29

the authorities didn't want to chance that.

47:31

The Suffolk County District Attorney,

47:34

Ray Tierney, told the Daily Mail, we

47:36

wanted as a task force to

47:39

continue it, but we felt collectively

47:42

that it was time to strike that balance

47:44

and take him off the street.

47:46

On July 14th, 2023,

47:48

Rex Hyrman pleaded not guilty to three

47:50

counts of first-degree murder and three

47:53

counts of second-degree murder. Searches

47:55

of his home had the public talking. More

47:57

than 200 guns, at least 90 to

47:59

of them registered, were seized.

48:02

Two separate storage units were searched with

48:04

the medical examiner on scene, which

48:06

could be a sign that police had discovered human

48:08

remains,

48:09

or thought they might.

48:10

Also removed from Harriman's home, a

48:13

filing cabinet, a cooler or freezer

48:15

of some kind, a doll of some

48:17

sort in a glass box, and a portrait

48:20

of a painting of LeBlanc with a bruised face.

48:23

It was also reported that tens of thousands

48:25

of dollars in cash were taken from the home. There's

48:27

been some information coming out indicating that

48:30

Rex Harriman was having financial problems

48:32

and backed tax issues. So

48:35

he may have been scrolling away this cash because

48:37

he couldn't keep it in a bank. It seems

48:39

overwhelmingly likely that Harriman

48:42

killed at the very least three women

48:44

he's facing charges for,

48:46

if not all four of the Gilgo Four. The

48:48

question remains,

48:50

can the authorities connect Rex Harriman to

48:52

the other victims that were found via physical

48:54

evidence?

48:55

And if not, does that mean there could be a second

48:57

killer in that area dumping bodies in close

48:59

proximity to where Harriman is alleged

49:02

to have dumped his victims bodies? Can

49:04

we just stop for a minute and talk about 200

49:07

guns? That is a lot

49:09

of guns. And I was shocked

49:12

when it said 92 of them were registered.

49:15

So 92 of them,

49:17

he went through the process of

49:20

filling out the paperwork, getting

49:22

a background check, all of that,

49:25

but then had what, let's say 108 plus that

49:27

he obtained through

49:32

some other means. Yeah, it definitely

49:34

seems like an arsenal. And in the video

49:36

that we've, many of us have seen police

49:39

are just carrying item after item up

49:41

out of this basement

49:43

man came of his dungeon,

49:45

whatever you want to call it, who knows what it looks like down

49:47

there. But apparently that's

49:49

where he stored a lot of this stuff that they took

49:51

out of the house.

49:53

It does seem possible that Rex Harriman

49:55

could be connected to some of the other victims

49:58

we mentioned with Penn Station.

50:00

so close to his office he easily

50:02

could have encountered Maureen Brainerd

50:04

Barnes there. Remember, she had called

50:07

her mom.

50:07

From that location, the night she vanished.

50:10

In the case of Megan Waterman,

50:13

a very large man with shaggy hair

50:15

was captured on surveillance, entering

50:17

the Holiday Inn lobby just after

50:19

Megan did the night she vanished.

50:22

It looks a lot like Heurman

50:24

when you look at his build, but there is nothing

50:27

conclusively proving it's

50:29

Rex Heurman. As of now, there's

50:32

still a question of whether he killed the

50:34

rest of the LISC victims

50:36

and maybe previously unconnected

50:39

victims. Rex Heurman was a

50:41

seasonal employee at Jones Beach

50:43

State Park

50:44

in the summer of 1981 and

50:47

again from March 1982 to October 1984.

50:52

He has worked as an architect in Manhattan

50:55

since 1987. He certainly

50:57

seemed to know the beach areas where

50:59

the victims were dumped. The confirmed

51:02

connection between Heurman and Jones Beach

51:04

brings to mind the unidentified woman named

51:06

Peaches whose remains were found there.

51:09

Could she be one of his victims? Some

51:11

authorities think she was actually the victim of domestic

51:13

violence and not the victim of a serial killer.

51:16

The unidentified Asian male victim doesn't

51:18

really fit in with the others we've discussed, but

51:21

Heurman allegedly had searched for the term

51:24

Asian male twink, so perhaps

51:26

this victim too died at the hands of Rex Heurman.

51:29

Victim Valerie Mack was only five feet

51:31

tall and petite,

51:32

which seemed to be a physical feature Rex Heurman

51:34

was attracted to.

51:36

There are a few additional victims that

51:38

may fit with the circumstances of some

51:41

of the victims in this case. If Heurman

51:43

killed Peaches, he may have also

51:45

killed a woman named Cherries whose

51:47

torso was found in a suitcase at

51:50

Harbor Island Park in Mamoronek

51:52

on March 3, 2007.

51:55

One of her legs was found at Cold

51:57

Spring Harbor on March 21, 2007.

51:59

and the next day her other

52:02

leg was found at Oyster Bay.

52:04

She was a light skinned black

52:06

or hispanic woman with a tattoo

52:09

of two cherries on her left breast.

52:11

It looks a lot like the tattoo on peaches

52:14

but it could just be a coincidence.

52:16

She had been stabbed to death which doesn't

52:19

fit the others but as we know serial

52:21

killers do evolve and improvise.

52:24

On January 23, 2013, skeletal

52:27

remains of a woman with

52:30

no sign of trauma were found wrapped

52:32

in an undisclosed material in

52:34

the brush at the end of Sheep Lane in

52:37

Laddington near Oyster Bay.

52:40

Her body was buried

52:41

unlike the Gilgo Beach 4 but

52:43

she was wrapped like three of the Gilgo

52:46

Beach victims were. Though we

52:48

don't know if it was with burlap or

52:50

not. She was wearing a pendant of a

52:52

gold pig, thought to refer to

52:54

the Chinese year of the pig, 1971, 1983 or 1995.

53:00

21-year-old

53:01

Jamie Seymour

53:03

disappeared on July 22, 2005 after using a stranger's phone

53:09

to call her mother from the Manhattan

53:11

Port Authority.

53:12

The last place Jessica Taylor

53:15

was seen. She was petite just

53:18

like most of the Gilgo 4 and

53:20

some of the Lisk victims she

53:22

has yet to be found.

53:23

So we'll have to wait and see

53:26

if more victims are

53:29

officially connected to Rex Heerman.

53:32

On July 18, 2023, authorities

53:35

search Heerman's property in Chester, South

53:37

Carolina.

53:38

His brother is said to be living there currently

53:41

but more interestingly,

53:42

a green Chevy Avalanche was towed from

53:44

the home by police.

53:46

A black Avalanche was towed from Heerman's

53:48

Mesopiqua Park home. The same

53:50

day as the search in South Carolina, Paige

53:53

Lobdell from News Nation tweeted that

53:55

the Las Vegas Metro Police had

53:57

confirmed they are looking at all unsolved cases

53:59

for

53:59

any possibility that Rex Herriman

54:02

may be involved.

54:03

On April 18, 2005, Herriman

54:06

and his wife purchased a timeshare in Las Vegas

54:08

and just weeks later, on May 4,

54:11

Lindsay Harris, a sex worker, disappeared

54:13

from Henderson, Nevada,

54:14

just outside of Las Vegas.

54:16

Parts of her body were discovered in Illinois

54:19

on May 23 of that year. It

54:21

may be a stretch to try and connect Herriman

54:23

to the victims in Nevada, but you can't

54:25

blame the authorities for looking into it. We

54:27

talked about the Long Island serial killer once

54:29

in our West Mesa episode and

54:31

said it was far afetch that the killer could be the

54:34

same in both cases

54:35

because they would have to go back and forth from New York

54:37

to New Mexico multiple times.

54:39

But now it seems like more of a realistic possibility,

54:42

seeing how Herriman is connected to multiple

54:45

states.

54:46

The arrest of Rex Herriman has fueled

54:48

online sluice into looking back at

54:51

unsolved murders, which could possibly

54:53

be attributed to him.

54:55

In

54:56

particular, a specific set

54:58

of four murders that many have discussed

55:00

over the years as possibly being

55:02

related to the Long Island murders. On

55:05

November 20, 2006, the

55:07

bodies of four female sex workers

55:10

were found in a shallow drainage ditch

55:12

behind the Golden Key Motel in

55:14

Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey,

55:17

just outside of Atlantic City. They

55:19

were all faced down, about 60 feet

55:22

from each other,

55:23

and they were all fully clothed,

55:25

except for their socks and shoes.

55:27

This does not match the Gilgo Beach

55:29

Four, who were all naked, but as

55:32

we mentioned earlier,

55:33

killers can and do evolve or

55:36

improvise. We mentioned that Rex

55:38

Herriman's wife

55:39

visited New Jersey, so is

55:41

it possible that he did too?

55:43

We'll have to see if his arrest reignites

55:46

the Egg Harbor Township investigation.

55:49

While it looks like the case against Herriman for

55:52

the Gilgo Four murders is pretty solid, there

55:54

could be other people responsible for some of the other

55:57

Lisk murders. A man named John

55:59

Bittroth.

56:00

was convicted of the murders of two women,

56:02

including the mother of Melissa Bartholomew's

56:04

best friend, Rita Tangreddy.

56:06

Melissa made many calls to Manorville,

56:09

where Bitrolf lived at the time. Is

56:11

it possible that there could be a Long Island

56:13

serial killer, a Manorville killer, and

56:16

a Gilgo Beach killer, whose crimes

56:18

and dumping grounds are overlapping? It

56:20

seems as if a second killer could have been targeting

56:23

black women and putting them in suitcases or

56:25

storage bins around this time.

56:27

And it seems as if Rex Heurman targeted

56:30

petite white women and dumped their bodies out

56:32

in the open. On June

56:34

23rd, 2008, 39-year-old

56:36

Tanya Rush disappeared on her

56:38

way to the subway station in Brooklyn. Her

56:41

body was found dismembered

56:43

inside a black canvas suitcase

56:46

on June 27th, 2008, on the ramp, leading

56:49

to the westbound Southern State Parkway

56:52

in Belmore.

56:53

Maybe Andre Isaac, also

56:55

known as Sugar Bear, is a victim of

56:58

this killer. The 25-year-old

57:00

disappeared from East End, New York just

57:02

before Thanksgiving, 2002.

57:05

He was last seen getting into a car, driven

57:08

by a Hispanic man.

57:10

His head was found with a single

57:12

bullet wound

57:13

on January 25th, 2003, and

57:15

his legs were later found

57:18

in plastic bags a few miles away.

57:20

Andre was known to crossdress

57:23

and was described as a gentle giant.

57:26

Could the same person who killed Andre

57:28

also have killed the unidentified

57:31

male Asian victim we mentioned earlier?

57:33

Some things

57:34

also make people wonder whether Heurman

57:38

has multiple MOs or victim

57:40

types.

57:41

While his searches suggest that

57:43

he's connected to petite white women,

57:46

at least one of his searches was for

57:48

the term black girl.

57:50

One mystery that remains is what really happened

57:52

to Shannon Gilbert.

57:53

After all, it was her 911 call

57:55

that kicked off the discovery of the bodies. How

57:58

did she really die? What's going on? circumstances

58:00

led to her death in the marsh where she was found.

58:03

Was she being stalked or chased the night she vanished?

58:06

Or was she hallucinating due to drugs or mental

58:08

illness?

58:09

There's some evidence that mental health issues

58:11

run in Shannon's family, and she may

58:13

have been going through some sort of psychosis or mental

58:16

break, whether drug-induced or not. Shannon's

58:19

sister, Sarah, was diagnosed with schizophrenia

58:22

and stabbed their mother, Marie, to death on July 23,

58:24

2016. Shannon

58:26

was diagnosed with bipolar disorder,

58:29

which can have manic episodes that can lead to

58:31

delusions and paranoia.

58:33

Hopefully more answers will come in her case.

58:36

During a press conference regarding the arrest

58:38

of Rex Hiraman, FBI

58:41

Special Agent Michael Rodak

58:43

said, "...the charges show that

58:45

we can overcome the most difficult challenges

58:47

when federal, state, and local law

58:50

enforcement work together on

58:52

the one task force.

58:53

Many, especially those who believe

58:55

this case could have been solved a decade

58:57

ago, think this was a bit

59:00

of slight shade thrown toward former

59:02

Commissioner Burke and those who helped

59:04

stall the investigation for whatever reason."

59:07

Rex Hiraman is due in court on

59:09

August 1. He faces multiple

59:12

sentences of life without the

59:14

possibility of parole.

59:15

According to his lawyer, Hiraman

59:18

was in tears after his arrest

59:20

and maintains his innocence. According

59:23

to the New York Post, he reportedly

59:25

had just one question for authorities

59:27

upon his arrest.

59:29

Is it in the news? Investigators

59:31

in this case want to connect all the dots and

59:34

find any missing pieces that may help them.

59:36

And they want to hear from people who can provide more

59:38

details about Rex Hiraman. He has

59:40

used the aliases Andrew Roberts, Thomas

59:43

Hawk, Andy Roberts, and

59:45

John Springfield online. He's used

59:48

Tinder, Craigslist, AOL,

59:50

and Gmail.

59:51

If any of this sounds familiar to you,

59:53

you can still submit a tip to the task force

59:56

at gilgonews.com slash

59:58

submitatip.

59:59

Perhaps listeners can help ID

1:00:02

some of the unidentified victims

1:00:04

we've covered in this episode, the

1:00:07

Asian male

1:00:08

or transgender female dough

1:00:10

or ocean Parkway dough is still identified.

1:00:13

They were five foot six between 17 and 23

1:00:17

had poor dental health and were killed

1:00:20

between 2001 and 2006. They

1:00:23

also had a physical disorder, which

1:00:25

would have affected the way they walked.

1:00:28

Fire Island, Jane Doe is also still

1:00:30

unidentified. Her right leg

1:00:32

had a three and a half inch scar

1:00:35

on the lower portion, a one inch

1:00:37

scar on the mid to lower leg

1:00:40

and a half inch scar on the ankle.

1:00:42

Her left leg had a two inch surgical

1:00:44

scar with additional suture

1:00:46

scars on the ankle. Authorities believe

1:00:49

that peaches and baby dough could

1:00:51

be identified with the help of

1:00:53

relatives of a man named

1:00:55

Elijah. How,

1:00:57

or Howard, they're not quite sure of

1:00:59

the name who lived in Prichard, Alabama

1:01:01

with his wife, Carrie, and died

1:01:03

in Mobile in 1963

1:01:06

with Lily Mae Wiggins Packard.

1:01:08

Peaches may have ties to Connecticut

1:01:11

as a tattoo artist there believes he's

1:01:14

the one who did her tattoo in 1996. He

1:01:17

remembered peaches as a young

1:01:20

black woman around 18 or 19

1:01:23

from the Bronx or Long Island.

1:01:25

If the tattoo peaches hat looks

1:01:27

familiar, or there is someone

1:01:30

missing from your family tree, that

1:01:32

seems like it could be hurt. You can call

1:01:35

one 800 call FBI and give

1:01:37

them your tip.

1:01:38

I had a conversation a couple of days ago with

1:01:40

someone that I know through work on the podcast.

1:01:43

A male family member of his was good friends

1:01:46

with Rex Heurman,

1:01:47

and he was shocked by news of the arrest of his

1:01:49

friend for these murders.

1:01:51

He didn't have an inkling that Rex Heurman could

1:01:53

be capable of something like this. He

1:01:55

had gone hunting in upstate New York with Rex

1:01:57

and Rex had taken him duck hunting in the very

1:01:59

end of the day. areas where some of the bodies were recovered.

1:02:02

And he'd been to the Hiram and Home multiple times.

1:02:05

He'd gone down in the basement and seen a large

1:02:07

gun collection.

1:02:08

According to the source, Rex told

1:02:10

him that he kept them down there hidden out of fear that

1:02:12

the state would try and confiscate them. One

1:02:15

interesting thing that may give us some insight into

1:02:17

Hiram and's mind had to do with the condition

1:02:19

and appearance of the Hiram and Home.

1:02:21

Much has been made about how dilapidated

1:02:24

and outdated it looks

1:02:26

compared to homes in the rest of the neighborhood.

1:02:28

According to my source's family member, Hiram

1:02:31

and told him that since it was his childhood

1:02:33

home, he wanted to preserve it just

1:02:35

the way it was, just the way his father

1:02:37

had left it, so he never updated

1:02:40

or repaired it.

1:02:41

And obviously I tried to get my source's family member

1:02:43

who was Rex's friend to come on the show for

1:02:45

an interview, and I was told that he wants absolutely

1:02:48

nothing to do with a podcast or any

1:02:50

media attention. And who can really blame

1:02:52

him for that?

1:02:53

To find out this person you were friends with

1:02:55

and whose house you went to is accused of these heinous

1:02:57

crimes has to be a complete shock.

1:03:00

And I'm sure we'll eventually hear from other people

1:03:02

who did know Rex Herman

1:03:04

that are willing to talk.

1:03:05

It will be interesting to see what they have to say.

1:03:08

So as we wrap up this episode,

1:03:10

Morriff, there is a lot going

1:03:12

on, like currently, and there's

1:03:15

a lot to come

1:03:16

in this case. And we brought

1:03:18

up a lot of questions.

1:03:20

You know,

1:03:21

it will be interesting to see the outcome

1:03:24

for Rex

1:03:26

Herman as it relates to the murders

1:03:29

that he's charged with. Will he ultimately

1:03:31

be charged with more

1:03:33

connected to more of the

1:03:35

murders? Because I think you asked the question,

1:03:38

you know, could this

1:03:40

guy have murdered many

1:03:42

more people, which I think is a very

1:03:44

real possibility, or

1:03:47

like we've asked in a lot of episodes,

1:03:49

could there be

1:03:51

two, three, four, five different

1:03:53

serial killers operating

1:03:56

in around the same timeframe,

1:03:59

over. and areas. And

1:04:01

I think that too is a real possibility.

1:04:05

Yeah. We always talk about how frightening it is that

1:04:07

there's either one person doing all

1:04:09

that, committing all this carnage or

1:04:11

the other possibility that there's multiple

1:04:14

people in that area capable

1:04:17

of this stuff. It's frightening. But

1:04:19

I think a trial will be fascinating

1:04:21

because we talked about, you know, some of

1:04:23

the evidence that's been

1:04:26

thrown out there and some really great works you

1:04:30

know, obviously advances in technology

1:04:33

of hell, but you know, the, the

1:04:35

personal cell phone versus

1:04:37

the burner phone versus the victims cell phones

1:04:43

and how, you know, they're pinging

1:04:45

either at the same time or that

1:04:47

they're not pinging when Herman is

1:04:51

out of the area. Um,

1:04:54

you know, some of that stuff is fascinating. And then obviously

1:04:56

you've got to look hard at

1:04:59

his wife's hair. I mean, to me, that

1:05:01

is going to be a real linchpin

1:05:05

in the, the prosecution's

1:05:07

case. Yeah. I'm

1:05:09

no attorney, but this looks like a mountain

1:05:12

of evidence in this case.

1:05:14

You know, it's not one or two little things. It's

1:05:16

a lot of stuff that they patiently

1:05:19

collected and checked off that sort

1:05:21

of connects to Rex Herman. You've got

1:05:24

his wife's hair, as you mentioned on multiple victims. You've

1:05:26

got his DNA on at least one of the victims. You've

1:05:30

got the cell phones, the electronics. So they're,

1:05:33

they really seem to have put forth

1:05:35

a lot of thought into all this evidence are going

1:05:38

to present that connects him to at least three of these four

1:05:40

victims solidly.

1:05:43

And then I think we'll have to be patient

1:05:45

to see if anything comes of all the other

1:05:47

victims. And then, you know, we'll

1:05:50

have to be patient to see if they're able to find

1:05:52

things that also connect him

1:05:55

to these other

1:05:56

victims as well. Well, and I think it shows you why

1:05:58

the police took their. time, right?

1:06:01

They, they probably could

1:06:03

have arrested him sooner. It

1:06:05

sounds like they wanted to wait even longer,

1:06:07

but they, they got a little scared

1:06:10

that

1:06:10

he was about to maybe possibly

1:06:13

commit another murder. So they

1:06:15

swooped in and got him. I mean,

1:06:17

I, like we talk about a lot, I think

1:06:19

this is a trial and a

1:06:21

case that many people will be following

1:06:24

over the next months, years, who

1:06:26

knows how long it's going to take to

1:06:29

ultimately get there. I know I will

1:06:31

be because I want to know

1:06:33

all the details and whether

1:06:36

or not, you know, not only is he

1:06:38

guilty of these three or

1:06:40

four murders, but what else

1:06:42

do they tie him to? What

1:06:45

worries me is that there might not ever

1:06:47

be a full breakdown

1:06:50

of his involvement. What he did,

1:06:53

he may not cooperate and he

1:06:55

may fight this in court. You

1:06:57

know, obviously they don't

1:06:59

really impose the death penalty in New

1:07:01

York state.

1:07:03

So if he fights it

1:07:05

and is found guilty,

1:07:07

it's the same

1:07:08

outcome as just taking a plea from the beginning

1:07:11

where he would divulge everything.

1:07:14

So I'm worried that

1:07:15

we'll never get all the answers. Then again, maybe

1:07:18

somebody will play to his ego once he accepts

1:07:21

that he's not getting out of jail. If

1:07:24

that's the outcome, maybe someone played

1:07:26

his ego and get him to talk

1:07:28

about what he did and sort of the

1:07:31

way some of these serial killers eventually

1:07:33

do. They want the attention.

1:07:36

They want everybody to know how police

1:07:38

were outsmarted by them. So maybe that

1:07:41

will eventually come out to where he starts talking in that

1:07:43

manner. Yeah. Again, we're

1:07:45

just going to have to wait and see. Just a couple

1:07:47

last second details we wanted to share that

1:07:50

are fresh off the wire. And the first

1:07:52

is that Rex Herman's wife has filed for divorce.

1:07:55

So apparently she's seen enough to convince her that

1:07:57

Rex is guilty of these crimes. The

1:07:59

other development. is that police searching the Heuermann

1:08:01

home have repositioned their vehicles

1:08:03

in such a way as to obstruct the

1:08:05

view of onlookers and press.

1:08:07

And that's fueled speculation that investigators

1:08:10

may have found something big there that they

1:08:12

want to keep private. So with everything else

1:08:14

we've talked about, we'll have to wait and see. Yeah, all

1:08:17

interesting stuff for sure.

1:08:20

So that's it for our episode on

1:08:22

Rex Heuermann. Like we said, a

1:08:24

lot to

1:08:25

be on the lookout for

1:08:28

in the future. If you love the show,

1:08:30

haven't done so yet, give us a rating,

1:08:33

a review, all of that helps.

1:08:36

And keep telling your friends. Word of mouth

1:08:38

about the podcast really goes a long way.

1:08:41

If you want to find us on social media, we're on

1:08:43

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1:08:45

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1:08:48

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1:08:50

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1:08:52

join our Facebook discussion group, criminology

1:08:54

podcast discussion and fans.

1:08:56

So that is it for another episode

1:08:58

of criminology, but morphine, I will be

1:09:00

back with all of you

1:09:02

next Saturday night with a brand new episode.

1:09:05

So until then, we'll talk to you next week.

1:09:26

Bye.