0:02

Inspired by the life of

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the savvy and ambitious Colombian

0:06

businesswoman Griselda Blanco comes a

0:08

new Netflix original limited series.

0:10

Griselda tells the story of

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a devoted mother who, with

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her lethal blend of charm

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and relentless savagery, creates one

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of the most powerful cartels

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in history. Witness Sofia Vergara's

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captivating transformation into the godmother

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of the underworld. Griselda, now

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streaming only on Netflix. Criminology

0:30

is a true crime podcast that

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may contain discussion about violent or

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disturbing topics. Listener discretion

0:36

is advised. Hello

1:07

everyone and welcome to episode

1:09

293 of the Criminology podcast.

1:11

I'm Mike Ferguson. And

1:14

I'm Mike Morford. Morford, how you doing, man?

1:17

I'm doing good. Everybody in the house

1:19

is sick except myself and my

1:21

son, my wife and my daughter are under the

1:23

weather and I was worried that it

1:25

was going to strike me and I wouldn't be able to

1:27

record, but I'm feeling pretty good. So knock on wood. How

1:29

about you? What's new with you? Not

1:32

much, not much. Just a really

1:34

cold up here in Ohio lately.

1:36

And I am ready to get

1:38

out into the sun for

1:40

it to warm up. I

1:43

want to go fishing. I just want to

1:45

get out. Yeah. That cold weather can definitely

1:47

keep you trapped in the house. Yeah,

1:49

it definitely does. Let's go ahead and give

1:51

our Patreon shout outs. We had Austin DeBrana,

1:56

Braylon Urbanek, and

1:59

Jessica Staples. some great new

2:01

support. We really appreciate it. Thank

2:03

you so much to everyone that helps support the show.

2:05

It really means a lot to us and helps us

2:07

out. And if you want

2:09

to support the show you can go to

2:11

patreon.com/criminology and get signed up. So

2:14

we've been telling listeners about CrimeCon 2024 in

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Nashville at the Gaylord Opryland.

2:20

It's from May 31st through

2:22

June 2nd. Well we've

2:24

been told that rooms are selling out but

2:27

don't worry if you want to go. The

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hotel does have a satellite hotel close by

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and that'll save you 10% on your

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standard badges. And remember to stay

2:47

tuned because in the not too distant future we'll be

2:49

letting listeners know when and where our

2:52

annual Criminology TCAT meetup will be. Okay

2:54

so now that we have that

2:56

out of the way let's jump

2:59

into this week's case and we're

3:01

talking about a high-profile kidnapping case.

3:03

And though it has a quote-unquote

3:06

positive outcome the

3:09

victims here went through one of the

3:11

most terrifying things a person can

3:13

dream of. They were thrown into

3:15

a situation that they knew would

3:17

kill them. It almost did. But

3:19

luckily these victims ended up living to

3:22

tell the tale. If you're

3:24

anything like Morph and I you

3:26

watch a lot of true crime

3:28

documentaries in your spare time and

3:30

recently you may have watched one

3:32

called Chalchilla. It's the true

3:34

and terrifying story of a school

3:36

bus full of kids that were kidnapped

3:38

by three armed men in 1976 in Chalchilla,

3:43

California. It's a good documentary

3:45

but if you haven't seen it don't worry

3:48

we're gonna give you all the details. It

3:50

was summer 1976. There were

3:53

less than 5,000 people living in the town

3:55

of Chalchilla in Central California

3:57

about four hours north of Los Angeles.

4:00

and two hours south of Sacramento. Looking

4:02

at an aerial view of the town and the surrounding

4:04

area, it's made up of miles and

4:06

miles of farmland. There were,

4:09

and still are, many different churches. Faith

4:11

has long been important to the people who live there. In

4:14

1976, it was the perfect scene

4:16

for the kind of summer people are nostalgic

4:19

for today. Riding bikes until the

4:21

street lights come on, feeding the heat

4:23

by running through sprinklers, and playing with

4:25

your friends at the park. It was a safe

4:27

town and people trusted each other. The

4:30

kids living in Chowchilla

4:32

who attended Dairyland Elementary

4:34

School's summer school program

4:36

didn't want their summer to end either.

4:39

On July 15th, the students had gone

4:41

on a class trip to the

4:43

Chowchilla Fairgrounds Swimming Pool. And

4:46

they had so much fun that they

4:49

came up with the idea to

4:51

petition for an extra two or

4:53

three weeks of summer school. They

4:55

even told their bus driver, Ed Ray,

4:57

about the idea. Ed was

4:59

very friendly with the children. He knew

5:01

all their names. He knew their families.

5:04

While driving the bus was a job, Ed

5:06

was good at it and he seemed to

5:08

enjoy it. The kids loved him

5:10

and included him in their conversations.

5:13

As two kids, a brother and a sister,

5:15

got off the bus, Ed jokingly

5:17

bet them that there would be no

5:19

extension. Summer school would

5:22

come to its end as planned. With

5:24

that, the students skipped off the bus

5:26

and on their way home and the

5:28

bus drove on. And a

5:30

lot of the sources use the word summer

5:33

school. My first thought

5:35

was, well, who wants more summer

5:37

school? But I don't think this

5:39

was summer school in the way that

5:41

most people think of it. I

5:43

think this was almost more

5:46

like summer camp or

5:49

them getting away and doing things.

5:51

So it was more fun. Yeah,

5:53

I think traditionally when you hear summer school, you think

5:56

of maybe you failed some classes or

5:58

some credit short, you have to go. to pick

6:01

up the extra course or whatever, complete it,

6:03

whatever the case is. And

6:06

it's kind of, most kids I think dread

6:08

it because while they're at school their friends are out

6:11

and about having fun or playing

6:13

games, whatever they're doing. As

6:15

the bus turned on to Avenue 21, Ed

6:18

noticed a white cargo van parked across the

6:20

road blocking his way. It was an

6:22

odd thing to see. The door of the

6:24

van was open but no one was around. Suddenly

6:27

a man ran up to the bus. He was

6:29

wearing pantyhose over his face, obscuring

6:31

his features. And he was carrying a

6:33

revolver which he pointed at Ed. According

6:36

to vox.com, the man calmly

6:38

said, would you open the door please?

6:41

The man's words were polite but his tone was

6:43

clear. This was a demand. Thinking

6:46

this must be a simple robbery or bus theft,

6:48

Ed decided the best way to keep the children safe

6:50

would be to comply. He opened the doors

6:53

of the bus. He had no way of

6:55

knowing that this wasn't a robbery and it

6:57

wasn't a carjacking. For Ed

6:59

and 26 children from Dairyland Elementary,

7:02

this was the beginning of a true nightmare. Two

7:05

more men who were hiding and waiting

7:07

for the bus nearby ran from their

7:09

cover and hopped on the bus. Both

7:12

of these men were also wearing

7:14

pantyhose over their heads, smashing down

7:16

their noses and obscuring their features.

7:19

One of them was armed with a

7:21

rifle which he kept pointed toward the

7:23

children. They forced Ed and all

7:26

of the children in the first rows, off

7:28

the bus, to go toward the back and

7:30

sit down. The man with

7:32

the rifle kept everyone sitting still in

7:34

fear as the man with

7:37

the revolver exited the bus and

7:39

jumped in the white cargo van. The

7:41

third man drove the bus, the

7:43

white van following closely behind. After

7:46

about a mile, the man pulled over

7:49

into a thicket of bamboo, obscuring the

7:51

bus from passersby. The man pulled

7:53

a dozen of the children out of the bus and packed

7:55

them into the back of the cargo van, careful

7:57

not to let them leave any footprints in the dirt.

8:00

Add in the remaining fourteen kids were shoved

8:02

into a second waiting vehicle, a green

8:04

cargo van. Jennifer Brown Hyde,

8:06

who was just nine years old that day, would

8:09

later tell CBS News, I

8:11

felt like I was an animal going to the

8:13

slaughterhouse. Jody Heffington, who was just

8:15

ten at the time, told CBS News, he

8:18

held a shotgun to my stomach, and

8:20

I had to stand there with his gun in

8:22

my gut until that one van drove away, and

8:24

they backed the second van up. It

8:26

felt like forever. I thought he was going to

8:28

shoot me. I actually did. So

8:31

no doubt, Morph, there was some

8:33

planning here on the

8:35

part of these perpetrators. They

8:38

had a number of cargo vans. What

8:41

I did find extremely interesting

8:43

was that they backed

8:45

these vans up to the bus, and

8:48

then they loaded the

8:51

kids from the bus to

8:53

the vans, making sure

8:56

that their feet didn't touch

8:58

the ground, so that they

9:00

didn't leave any footprints. There

9:02

was pre-planning. It was thought

9:05

out. And it had to be a

9:07

really chaotic scene, too, with all these kids scared

9:10

and frightened, and you've

9:12

got these masked guys with

9:14

guns that had to be really a frantic

9:17

situation for them. And Ed, the

9:20

bus driver, must have had his hands full trying to keep them

9:22

calm. Well, I think you're right,

9:24

because one of the

9:26

things they had going on inside the

9:28

bus was that these kids

9:31

were all different ages.

9:33

The range was pretty large. These

9:37

weren't all freshmen or sophomore.

9:39

You had a lot

9:42

of younger kids as well. So

9:44

to think about the scene of

9:46

having men with,

9:49

essentially, masks on their

9:51

heads holding guns, I

9:54

mean, that would be terrifying to anyone.

9:56

But think about a nine-year-old.

10:00

absolutely terrifying. The back

10:02

of the vans were stifling hot. July

10:05

days in Chowchilla are usually at least

10:07

in the 90s. There was no air

10:09

conditioning. All the windows were

10:11

up and there were wooden panels

10:14

lighting the insides of the van.

10:16

The men had sealed up a partition

10:18

between the front seats and the cargo

10:20

area. There was no airflow in

10:23

the dark van. Everyone was

10:25

confused and terrified. Some of the kids

10:27

tried to calm each other down, singing

10:30

songs like, If You're Happy and You

10:32

Know It, but no one

10:34

was clapping along. No one was

10:36

happy. Everyone knew the situation

10:39

was serious. They were all

10:41

experiencing the same terrifying ordeal, trapped

10:44

in the back of that small hot

10:46

van together. As much of a hell

10:48

as it was, it would get worse.

10:51

As the group was being whisked away by their

10:53

abductors, parents were beginning to notice that

10:55

their children weren't coming home on time. Some

10:58

parents thought that the kids were simply playing with

11:00

friends, and that kids will be kids, and

11:02

it was summer after all. Great weather

11:04

for staying out late. But this didn't

11:06

feel normal. When Ed didn't show up

11:08

after his route would have been over, people

11:10

really began to worry. Ed's nephew,

11:12

Ronnie Ray, explained to Vox that

11:15

people were immediately suspicious that something was

11:18

wrong, saying, parents began to

11:20

wonder what was going on 15 minutes after

11:22

their kids didn't get home. Residents

11:24

began their own search. At 6.30

11:26

pm, a plane was dispatched by the sheriff's

11:28

office to assist in the search for the

11:31

missing bus. As the night went

11:33

on, worry grew. When the bus

11:35

was finally discovered far off its normal

11:37

route, empty, it didn't come with any

11:39

relief. There was no sign of

11:41

the driver or the children. 27 people

11:43

had vanished into thin air, and

11:46

full-scale panic and speculation immediately began.

11:49

Many were sure that the Zodiac Killer was

11:51

somehow involved. He had previously threatened to

11:53

attack a school bus, and at

11:55

the height of UFO hysteria, others

11:57

suspected that aliens had abducted the children.

12:00

Whatever angle or theory they were covering,

12:02

various media outlets just wanted the story.

12:05

Journalists flocked at Chowchilla. Investigators

12:08

too. Both of the town's

12:10

motels were completely booked by FBI agents

12:13

after the FBI offered their manpower and technology

12:15

to help find the children. So

12:18

we talked about the fear that

12:20

the kids on the bus must

12:22

have been experiencing. Well, then

12:24

you have to think about the other side of

12:27

the coin, which is the parents. You

12:29

know how it is more. When you

12:31

have kids, there

12:33

are routine and you

12:35

expect them to get off the

12:38

bus around the same time every

12:40

day or to be dropped off around the

12:42

same time every day. When there is

12:44

a deviation, like there was

12:46

here, a lot of parents,

12:49

you know, they get extremely worried

12:52

very quickly. And I think

12:54

that's what we were seeing here. You

12:56

know, 15 minutes passes the

12:59

kids are supposed to, you know, have been

13:01

at home. Okay,

13:03

panic starts to set in. Yeah,

13:05

we have to remember this is in the days before, you

13:08

know, any kind of GPS or

13:11

phone tracking, anything parents might use an app

13:13

to maybe see where their kids are. You'll

13:16

follow along with their buses route. I

13:18

know right now my son has an

13:20

app for his bus that we can see how close

13:23

he is to getting dropped off and we can go

13:25

out and meet him. But I remember

13:27

once when my daughter was in first grade, we

13:30

didn't have an app or anything and her bus usually

13:34

like clockwork within one to two

13:36

minute period had always dropped her off in one day. It

13:38

was about 15 minutes late and I really got worried.

13:41

So worried that I made a call to

13:43

the bus garage to see if

13:45

anything was wrong and sure enough the bus had

13:47

broken down. So I can

13:49

see how these parents would become worried and wonder

13:51

what was going on and then to find the

13:53

bus empty and

13:56

all the kids gone, that had to be a real

13:58

shock. in a

14:00

lot of cases we do, it seemed

14:02

like very quickly, you know,

14:05

the speculation starts. And

14:08

you know, some of it you might

14:11

think is outlandish, right? Okay,

14:13

it's the Zodiac Killer, but the

14:15

Zodiac Killer, not that

14:17

many years before, had

14:20

threatened to attack a school bus. Then

14:23

you have the UFO angle. It's

14:25

interesting to see where people's minds

14:27

go in these situations.

14:31

Sometime during the night, a rare

14:33

summer storm caused lightning that wiped

14:35

out electricity for miles. This

14:38

probably didn't help dispel any of

14:40

the extraterrestrial rumors, and it certainly

14:42

didn't help ease any worry about

14:44

the well-being of the missing children.

14:47

At the fire station, Madera County

14:50

Sheriff Ed Bates addressed the many

14:52

worried parents. According to

14:54

vox.com, he said, no one is

14:56

going to try and get away with hurting 26 children

15:00

and a bus driver. Where are they

15:02

going to hide them? Where are they going

15:04

to put them? They have to take care

15:06

of them somehow. If you had a

15:08

herd of ducks, you'd have to keep

15:10

them somewhere. Whoever did this

15:12

doesn't want to hurt your children. But

15:15

Sheriff Bates did have a theory

15:18

of what they wanted, saying they

15:20

want money, and you haven't

15:22

got any money. They're going to

15:25

ask the government to provide it. Nobody

15:28

else has money like that, he explained

15:30

to the worried parents. There

15:32

had been a recent announcement in

15:34

the papers about a budget surplus,

15:37

which probably fueled the sheriff's theory.

15:40

While the worried parents were going through their own

15:42

nightmare, so were the children and their bus driver,

15:44

Ed. They had been driven for

15:46

what felt like hours, the whole time

15:48

stuffed into the back of the two small vans. They

15:51

finally came to a stop and the doors opened. Two

15:54

men pulled Ed out of the van and

15:56

closed the doors, trapping the children inside. They

15:59

interrogated Ed. asking for his name and

16:01

age. They also stripped him of

16:03

his pants and his shoes, and forced

16:05

him to climb down a ladder into a deep dark

16:07

hole. The men handed him a flashlight,

16:09

but kept his shoes and pants. One

16:11

by one, they repeated the process with each of

16:14

the children. If the girls were wearing

16:16

any sports bras or training bras, their

16:18

shirts were taken. All of their shoes

16:20

were confiscated before they were forced to climb down into

16:22

the hole with Ed. Victim Jody

16:25

Heffington told CBS News, they'd

16:27

take the next kid out, and they would

16:29

close the doors. But when they open

16:31

the doors, you don't see them. I

16:33

thought they were basically killing us one at a time.

16:36

So I think you go from one

16:39

scary situation to another.

16:41

You have the situation

16:43

of these men boarding the bus,

16:45

they have guns, they load

16:47

you into vans. And

16:50

then, when you come to a

16:52

stop, it's basically

16:55

as if kids are being taken

16:57

out one at a time,

16:59

the doors are shut, you don't have any

17:01

idea what's going on. I mean, go

17:03

back to Jody's statement to

17:06

CBS. We basically thought they

17:08

were killing us one at a time. I

17:11

just think if you're seven, eight,

17:13

nine years old, how do you process

17:15

what is going on? And

17:17

you have to think that they probably felt relief when they

17:19

were finally let out of the van, only

17:21

to have you re-terrised

17:24

when they were forced down into this

17:26

dark hole after having to take off

17:28

their clothes. As the

17:30

26-child climbed down into that dark

17:32

hole, all signs of the

17:35

outside world disappeared. The men

17:37

dropped a large steel plate onto

17:39

the entrance of the hole, covering

17:41

it. Everyone was trapped

17:43

underground. The sheer darkness was

17:45

overshadowed by the sound of

17:47

many children screaming at once.

17:50

Ed turned on their only flashlight

17:52

and tried to calm the terrified

17:54

crowd. And We're going to be

17:56

talking about Ed a lot. I Mean, obviously,

17:58

he's the lone adult. In

18:01

this situation with the children and

18:03

if you've ever cared for one.

18:05

Upset child. You. Can imagine.

18:08

How difficult? have a seat? Calming.

18:11

Twenty six kidnap children. Buried.

18:14

Underground in just a few feet

18:16

of space would be. The. Sound

18:18

of the dirt being piled on top

18:20

of the seed of steel covering the

18:23

whole. Didn't. Help at all. Linda.

18:25

For a Ho lab and Darragh

18:27

who was just ten years old

18:30

during the kidnapping told Cnn, it

18:32

was like a giant coffin. For.

18:34

All of. Screams. Monks the

18:36

group turn into prayers and then eventually

18:39

all the children begin a chance. In.

18:41

A documentary. They chanted in unison. Pretty.

18:44

Please let us out. Pretty. Please

18:46

let us out. Probably. After

18:48

turning themselves out. There. were common

18:50

up the look around their dungeon. Or

18:52

a few mattress is piled up next to

18:54

makeshift toilets. Which. Were just wooden boxes

18:56

with holes. couldn't have top of them. Not.

18:59

The anyone wanted use them. Many.

19:01

Children were holding their bladders. Expected

19:03

to be able to go as soon as they

19:05

got home. But. That was must be hours

19:07

ago. There. Was also bit of food for

19:09

them. To. Eat, but just a tiny

19:12

bit. It. Included a loaf of bread.

19:14

A. Jar of peanut butter. And. A box

19:16

of cereal, There. Were few jugs of water,

19:18

but not nearly enough for how many people are

19:21

trapped. Especially. With how hot

19:23

it had been, the veins. And was

19:25

in the hole where they were being kept

19:27

captive. A notice to smoke and ends

19:29

with air coming through. Some. Sort of.

19:31

Sam was pumping error down to the dungeon.

19:34

To. To tiny holes. It was

19:36

not fresh air by any means, but it was air.

19:39

At the Chowchilla Police Department

19:41

their single foam I was

19:43

constantly busy. From. The moment

19:45

the children in there were noticed to

19:47

be missing people have been calling in

19:50

their reports in their tips. The.

19:52

F B. I added dozens of

19:54

phone lines said the departments, and

19:56

still they were all tied up

19:58

nonstop. It would be. revealed later

20:01

that the kidnappers had tried to call

20:03

and make demands, but couldn't get through

20:05

this caused the rescue to be

20:08

delayed because the kidnappers couldn't

20:10

give any information because they

20:12

couldn't make a phone call. They couldn't

20:14

get through the kidnappers decided to try

20:17

again later. Apparently abducting a

20:19

bus full of people really takes

20:21

it out of you because the

20:23

kidnappers all fell asleep as

20:26

they waited for the phone lines to clear so

20:28

they could call again. And I

20:30

kind of said that a little bit jokingly,

20:33

but I do think it's,

20:35

it's probably true. You know,

20:38

imagine the adrenaline that

20:40

would be coursing through you as you're committing

20:44

this awful crime. What

20:46

some point do you start to

20:48

crash? Do you come down? And

20:51

again, it was hot for them as well. Obviously

20:54

no sympathy there, but you

20:57

could see why, you know, maybe they needed

20:59

to take a nap, the kidnappers,

21:02

but it's interesting and it's a sign

21:05

of the time that we're talking

21:07

about that you know, these kidnappers

21:11

couldn't even get through to the police to make

21:13

their demand. Yeah.

21:15

We talked earlier too about how organized

21:17

the subduction was, how the planned out

21:20

it seemed, how they had

21:22

multiple people. They took control of the bus easily,

21:24

got the kids where they wanted them, got them

21:26

down in the soles. Well thought

21:28

out, but then after they accomplish

21:31

all that, they don't even think

21:33

that one of them should stay awake to make sure

21:35

the kids are watched. They're all

21:37

sleeping. So it's sort of a clash with

21:39

on one hand, it seems like they're really

21:42

professionals. And then the other hand, they're, they're

21:44

all falling asleep and not really organized that

21:46

way. Yeah. And as we go

21:49

through the episode, we're going to find out

21:51

what type of criminals we're dealing

21:53

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Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or

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on Apple Podcasts. While

23:02

the kidnappers caught some Z's, their

23:04

abductees remained wide awake in terror.

23:06

It was hard to tell time down in the dark hole.

23:09

Eventually, the fans pumping air down

23:11

into the hole stopped working. It

23:13

was getting hotter by the minute. It felt

23:16

like it had been forever, but it had

23:18

only been 12 hours since the opening had been

23:20

covered. When the weight of the dirt

23:22

on top began to cause the roof to cave in, dirt

23:24

started entering the hole, falling down onto

23:27

the children. Mike Marshall, who

23:29

at 14 was the oldest child, hostage,

23:31

told CNN. I thought to myself,

23:34

if we're going to die, we're going to die

23:36

getting the hell out of here. Working

23:38

as a group, they stacked up all the mattresses

23:40

and Mike climbed to the top of the stack.

23:43

He pushed and pushed against the steel plate, but

23:45

it was no use. Left driver

23:47

Ed Ray began to help, overcoming

23:49

his fear that the kidnappers were waiting above

23:51

with their guns. Finally, the

23:53

plate budged, but there was something heavy

23:55

on top of it. With Ed holding the

23:58

plate up, Mike reached his arm out of the stack.

24:00

of the hole, desperately trying to push whatever

24:02

was on top of the plate. While

24:04

struggling to free the heavy objects, two

24:06

huge bus batteries were pulled down into the

24:09

hole. Luckily, they didn't hit anyone.

24:11

And we're going to be talking about Mike Marshall

24:14

a lot. He is one

24:16

of the real central

24:18

figures in this case.

24:21

We've talked about how scared these

24:23

kids must have been. And we said

24:26

Mike was the oldest, but he's still only 14 years

24:28

old. But to

24:30

have that thought, Morph, if we're

24:32

going to die, we're going to

24:34

die getting the hell out of here. I

24:37

mean, it kind of gives you goosebumps

24:39

a little bit. Just

24:41

thinking about this 14-year-old

24:43

kid determined that he's

24:46

going to do whatever it takes to get

24:48

out. Not to mention the

24:50

fact that he

24:53

got his arm essentially

24:56

sticking up through this hole, relying

24:58

on Ed to kind of

25:01

keep the steel plate

25:03

held up. I mean,

25:05

if Ed falls, if Ed drops the

25:08

plate, Mike probably loses

25:10

his arm. Yeah, not to mention

25:12

he had pretty brave having his arm up there in

25:14

the first place because he didn't really know if any

25:16

of the guys were out there with guns. They could

25:18

have shot at him. Though

25:20

the hole was open, the group was still

25:23

not free. They were

25:25

still inside their makeshift bunker.

25:28

Dirt, dust, and rocks began to pour

25:30

into the hole as the

25:32

children climbed up toward what Larry

25:34

Park, who was only six years

25:36

old at the time, told CNN,

25:38

was the most glorious ray of

25:41

sunlight that I had ever seen.

25:43

After almost 16 hours underground, the

25:46

group were breathing fresh air and

25:49

walking above ground. They didn't

25:51

know where they were though. They had no

25:53

shoes. Many of them no real

25:56

clothes. The group led by

25:58

Ed ran down. a dirt road,

26:00

towards what turned out to be a

26:03

grain elevator at a quarry. The

26:05

security guard on duty saw the group

26:07

in the distance, and thinking that they

26:09

were about to be robbed, sounded

26:12

an alarm. As the group

26:14

reached the shock security guard,

26:16

Ed yelled out, We're the

26:18

ones kidnapped from Chowchilla. The

26:20

security guard called police, and at this point,

26:23

the group was released, knowing

26:25

that they were finally safe.

26:28

So this was quite an ordeal. Just

26:32

getting out of this

26:34

makeshift bunker, there was

26:36

a lot to it. We didn't cover every

26:38

single detail of what

26:41

they had to do to get out. We

26:43

covered the highlights, but again,

26:45

Mike Marshall was at

26:47

the center of pretty

26:50

much everything. Digging through

26:52

dirt, resilient.

26:56

This 14 year old kid, he just

26:58

wasn't about to give up. And

27:00

ultimately, with the help of Ed, was

27:03

able to get all of these kids

27:06

above ground. And I have no

27:08

idea what that feeling must

27:10

have been like. Number

27:12

one, just to get out of

27:14

the hole, but then to

27:16

find a security guard for

27:19

them to sound an alarm and to

27:21

feel like you're about to

27:23

be safe, right? The police are

27:25

going to come. Yeah, on one hand,

27:27

I can see how they are

27:30

relieved, they're out of that hole, but

27:32

they still don't know where they're at. And,

27:35

you know, I can see them

27:37

also wondering, Hey, is

27:39

this one of the guys that abducted us? Maybe there's a little bit

27:41

of, you know, they're guarded

27:43

about that part of it. But then

27:46

when the guard calls the police, then they knew

27:48

that they were indeed going to be safe. The

27:51

authorities raced to the scene at the

27:53

quarry, which was located in Livermore, California,

27:56

about 100 miles northwest of Chalkilla, where

27:58

the group had been kidnapped. The

28:00

children were transported to the Santa

28:03

Rita Rehabilitation Center and given

28:05

jumpsuits far too large for their tiny frames.

28:08

After being questioned and photographed there, they

28:10

were put on a bus and sent back home

28:12

to Chowchilla. Back in their hometown, children

28:15

were greeted by elated parents. Media

28:18

waited to interview the survivors. 14-year-old

28:20

Mike Marshall, who had led the

28:22

group to freedom, was exhausted but willing to speak.

28:25

But according to CNN, a voice in the crowd

28:27

said firmly, Why don't we just give

28:30

them a break, boys? Let them go home.

28:32

Get some sleep. It was

28:34

Darryland Elementary School Principal Leroy Tatum,

28:37

and it was sound advice. Kids

28:39

were exhausted and hungry, and just wanted

28:41

to go be with their families. News

28:43

that the children were alive was splashed

28:45

on every TV channel that night. Residents

28:49

in Chowchilla and those around the world

28:51

who were invested in the fate of

28:53

the missing school children wept with

28:55

relief as they heard the news. The

28:58

children had freed themselves and they were safe.

29:00

They were coming home. Perhaps the

29:02

only ones who weren't relieved when

29:04

they saw the breaking news were

29:07

the kidnappers, who had woken up

29:09

from their nap ready to

29:11

call in their ransom demands, only

29:14

to see that their hostages were free.

29:17

There would be no ransom payment for

29:19

children who were already safe at home.

29:22

Instead, the men knew that law

29:24

enforcement was looking for them. Investigators

29:27

began to dig at the site.

29:29

California Rock and Gravel Quarry in

29:32

Livermore, which was owned by Frederick

29:34

Nickerson Woods III. They

29:36

unearthed a moving van buried in

29:39

the ground, indicating that whoever

29:41

had done this would have

29:43

needed keys to the quarry. In

29:45

order to take on a project that

29:47

big, this moving van

29:49

had been the group's underground

29:52

dungeon, buried 12 feet

29:54

under dirt and rocks. The

29:56

roof of the van was never built

29:58

for weight on top of the building. it, but

30:01

the kidnappers hadn't planned to have to

30:03

wait to make their demands. It

30:05

was never supposed to last that long. The

30:07

kidnappers thought their demands would be

30:10

met and they would release their

30:12

hostages. So we talked about

30:14

the planning that had gone

30:17

into this. And now you

30:19

find out that, you know, they

30:21

had this moving van. They

30:23

had buried it at this

30:25

court, 12 feet. That's

30:28

a big job. And obviously that

30:30

has to be done in advance. Kind

30:33

of just clues you in a little

30:35

bit more about the planning

30:37

that went into this. What

30:40

they couldn't have planned for was

30:42

that they wouldn't be able

30:45

to make their ransom demands. They couldn't

30:47

get through, you know, you talked

30:49

about it more, you know, kind of

30:51

everyone taking this nap. I

30:53

get it. You're tired. But when

30:56

you wake up, you find out that these kids

30:58

are all home and safe. Your

31:00

plan is kind of shot to hell at that

31:03

point. And that plan probably

31:05

included some kind of excavator or backhoe

31:07

or something on those ones to dig

31:09

that hole because I

31:11

don't think three guys with shovels are out

31:13

there doing that. So quite a job and

31:16

to just have it all fall apart, which

31:18

I'm glad it did. But over a nap,

31:20

it's just kind of, again, it just

31:22

tells me these aren't mastermind criminals,

31:24

their plan

31:27

wasn't foolproof. Well, for me, you

31:30

can talk about the amount of

31:32

planning that goes into a crime, but

31:35

it's very hard to account for

31:37

everything. And like you said,

31:40

I don't think we're dealing with criminal

31:42

masterminds here. So sometimes

31:45

no matter how much planning

31:47

you put into it, it's

31:49

just not going to work out the way that you

31:51

think it is. It didn't

31:54

take the FBI long to suspect the

31:56

quarry owners, Frederick Woods, 24 year old

31:58

son, also named Fred Wood. was

32:00

involved. Security guards at the

32:03

quarry remembered seeing three men digging a whole

32:05

month earlier. One of those men

32:07

they identified as Fred Woods. Looking

32:09

into his criminal record, investigators found

32:11

out he had been arrested for car

32:13

theft with two of his friends, 24-year-old

32:16

James Schoenfeld and his younger

32:18

brother Richard. A search warrant was granted

32:20

for the 78-acre Bay Area

32:22

property of Frederick Nickerson Woods where

32:25

his son Fred Woods also lived. Investigators

32:27

found guns as well as a ransom note

32:30

that had never been delivered. According

32:32

to CBS News it read, your

32:34

bus has been kidnapped. Put two

32:36

and a half million dollars in each of the

32:38

suitcases, total five million. Use

32:41

old bills. Have ready at the

32:43

Oakland police station. Further instructions pending

32:45

until 10.05 p.m. Sunday.

32:48

We are Beazlebub. They also found

32:50

a jack in the box bag with the

32:52

names of all the kidnapping victims scrawled on

32:54

it in blue ink. This was the

32:56

roll call that had been taken before each child

32:58

was forced to climb down that ladder. The

33:01

evidence was overwhelming. Judge

33:03

Howard Green signed the arrest warrants

33:05

for all three suspects and set

33:08

their bail at one million

33:10

dollars each due to what

33:12

he referred to as their

33:14

wealthy background. Richard Schoenfeld

33:17

turned himself in. Two

33:19

weeks later authorities captured James

33:21

Schoenfeld in the city of

33:23

Menlo Park. As for

33:25

Fred Woods he fled to Canada.

33:28

At the St. Francis Hotel

33:30

on Seymour Street in Vancouver,

33:32

Canada Fred Woods kept a

33:34

low profile. He did take the

33:37

time to send a letter to a friend of his,

33:39

a screenwriter named David.

33:42

According to vox.com he

33:44

described the kidnapping that he had

33:46

taken part in but warned that

33:49

his ending is not

33:51

exciting enough. So you

33:53

might have to kill some people

33:55

or something. And according to

33:57

CBS News he added if you

33:59

do make it into a film. All

34:02

I want is a percent of it. On

34:04

July 29th, the same day

34:06

that James was arrested, the RCMP

34:09

working with American authorities, caught

34:11

up to Fred Woods in

34:13

Vancouver, and he was

34:15

taken into custody. So we

34:18

mentioned it earlier more if

34:20

Fred Woods' dad owned the

34:22

quarry. He had quite a bit of

34:24

money. We mentioned this

34:26

78-acre Bay Area property where they

34:31

lived. So Fred

34:33

goes on the run, but takes

34:35

the time to write a letter to

34:37

his friend, and the wording in

34:40

it just stunned me.

34:42

He described the kidnapping, but said,

34:44

if you make this into

34:46

a movie, the ending is not enough.

34:49

You might have to kill some people. And

34:51

if you do make it, I

34:53

want a percent of it. It

34:57

seems like such a strange letter

34:59

to write. Knowing that

35:02

you're on the run, you're

35:04

wanted by authorities, and maybe

35:07

it provides a little bit of insight

35:09

into Fred Woods, he's still

35:11

thinking about how to make some money out

35:13

of this thing. Yeah, there's not

35:15

much there in the way of remorse

35:17

or regrets or how can I make

35:20

this right, or anything like that. It's how

35:22

can I still profit from this. It's

35:24

pretty obvious. And I'm

35:26

sure we'll talk about this more in detail,

35:29

but my thought is

35:31

he probably didn't have remorse because

35:35

he didn't think anything really bad

35:37

happened to these kids. They were

35:40

all out. They were all alive.

35:42

As we'll see, even though

35:45

they all lived, there was quite a bit

35:47

of damage done by

35:49

the actions of these three men

35:52

to these kids. A

35:54

few days later, all three of the

35:56

kidnappers, Fred Newhall Woods, James

35:58

Schoenfeld, and Rick Schoenfeld entered

36:01

guilty pleas to 27 counts of

36:03

kidnapping for ransom without

36:05

inflicting bodily injury. With

36:07

these guilty pleas came mandatory life sentences

36:09

with no possibility parole. According

36:12

to CBS News, one of the

36:14

judges on the panel, Judge William Newsom, called

36:17

the kidnapping a mere stunt and

36:19

claimed that there had been no vicious aspect to

36:21

it. This certainly caught many of

36:24

the families of the abductees by surprise

36:26

that the judge seemed to be minimizing what these

36:29

kidnappers had done. So this

36:31

was a little surprising to me that

36:33

these guys would enter guilty pleas knowing

36:36

that the sentences were going to be life

36:38

sentences with no possibility of parole. I

36:41

wonder why they would do that and not fight

36:43

them and take your chance at a trial and

36:45

what's the worst case scenario? That they're feeling guilty and

36:47

get the same sentence? It's kind of puzzling to me.

36:50

Yeah, I found that odd as

36:53

well. They weren't

36:55

going to get the death penalty, which would

36:57

be the only thing worse than what

37:00

they got. So you would

37:02

think you'd roll the dice.

37:05

But as we talked about, the evidence against

37:08

them was pretty

37:10

clear. It was pretty evident.

37:12

They weren't getting out from

37:14

these charges. But could

37:17

there have been some type

37:19

of scenario where the

37:22

sentence was less? Maybe there

37:24

was the possibility of parole. It did

37:26

seem odd to just kind of take

37:28

that. And I wonder if they

37:31

were truly sorry and

37:33

remorseful and realized that they

37:36

deserved this punishment, then maybe they

37:38

would not fight it. But

37:40

from what we've said about this guy

37:43

Woods, especially, he seems like

37:45

he didn't regret it at all. And

37:47

he was still trying to figure out ways to capitalize

37:49

on it. But according to

37:52

ABC News 30, the kidnappers

37:54

did show remorse. James

37:56

Schoenfeld said, I'm very sorry,

37:59

deeply sorry. for what I've

38:01

done while Rick Schoenfeld said I

38:03

was immature, I was the follower

38:06

and I made an extremely stupid

38:08

decision here. Fred Wood said

38:11

it was just a lot of pain

38:13

and suffering. We put everybody through that

38:15

we didn't realize we were doing at the time.

38:18

But now I just hope that everyone is

38:20

going on with their lives. Everything

38:23

can be somewhat back to

38:25

normal. Despite their apologies and

38:27

regrets, the men were sent to

38:29

prison as the people they

38:31

kidnapped tried to move forward with their

38:33

lives and put the nightmare of what

38:36

happened behind them. Despite the fact

38:38

that the men had been held accountable

38:40

and convicted, there was still

38:42

little in the way of

38:44

explanations, little in the way of

38:47

answers. And that's what people

38:50

really crave. Why did they

38:52

choose child children? Three hours away

38:54

from where they lived in San Francisco,

38:57

there were many rural communities.

38:59

Why this one? And why

39:01

the children? Why so many of them?

39:04

Why this bus? So

39:06

these guys expressed remorse and

39:08

you know, I always wonder in

39:11

these types of cases when you're talking

39:13

about perpetrators and what they say, is

39:15

it real? Is

39:18

this how they they really

39:20

feel? Or are they

39:22

saying this because they know

39:25

that's what they need to say? I think

39:27

sometimes it's very hard to figure

39:29

out. But what Fred Wood said

39:31

is what really jumped out at me. I

39:34

just hope that everyone is going on

39:36

with their lives. Everything can

39:39

be back to normal. Well,

39:42

that is such a naive statement.

39:45

Yeah, people are going to go on

39:47

with their lives, but it's never

39:49

going to be the same for them.

39:52

It's never going to go back to

39:54

normal. A

40:01

multi-judge panel reviewed the case and decided that

40:03

Woods and the Schoenfeld brothers would be eligible

40:05

for parole after all and not have to

40:07

be locked away for the rest of their

40:09

lives, but they would have to wait years

40:11

to be free. In

40:13

2012, Ed Ray, the courageous bus

40:16

driver who kept his passengers safe through the

40:18

ordeal, passed away at the age of 91. As

40:21

a result of his bravery and heroic actions, Ray

40:24

received a California School Employees

40:27

Association citation for outstanding

40:29

community service. In

40:31

addition, in 2015, Calchilla

40:33

renamed the Sports and Leisure Park as

40:35

the Edward Ray Park and declared

40:38

every February 26, which was Ray's

40:40

birthday, Edward Ray Day. Ed

40:42

had stayed in touch with many of the students over

40:44

the years until his passing. In

40:47

2012, the same year Ed

40:50

Ray died, Richard Schoenfeld was

40:52

granted parole and three

40:54

years later in 2015, his

40:56

brother James was granted parole.

40:59

Sheriff Bates told vox.com, As

41:02

far as I'm concerned, the brothers were

41:04

duped. They were just

41:06

young, uneducated guys looking for a

41:09

little excitement and got suckered in.

41:12

James Schoenfeld finally publicly

41:14

explained at his final

41:16

parole hearing why they

41:18

chose a bus full of school children for

41:20

their plot. According to CBS News,

41:23

first, they were basically guaranteed

41:25

to get the ransom money

41:27

if the hostages were children

41:30

and there was less that could

41:32

go wrong with their victims fighting

41:34

back or escaping if they were

41:36

small and scared. He said, We

41:39

needed multiple victims to get

41:41

multiple millions and we picked

41:43

children because children are

41:46

precious. The state would be

41:48

willing to pay ransom for them

41:51

and they don't fight back. They're vulnerable.

41:54

In 2016, 40

41:56

years after the kidnapping, the victims,

41:58

now adults with kids are their own, filed

42:01

a lawsuit against the Schoenfeld brothers and

42:03

Fred Woods for false imprisonment,

42:06

intentional or reckless infliction of

42:08

emotional distress and assault and

42:10

battery. Ray Boucher, who represented

42:12

10 of the victims, told

42:14

ABC News 30, you have these

42:17

victims sitting there going, how is

42:19

this possible? 27

42:21

consecutive life sentences and these men

42:23

are getting out free. They eventually won

42:25

an undisclosed amount, which was said to be

42:28

enough to pay for therapy for each victim,

42:30

but not an overly large sum. Many

42:33

of the survivors have struggled with PTSD,

42:35

nightmares and panic attacks in

42:38

the decades following the kidnapping. While

42:40

no one thought it would happen since

42:42

he had been denied parole 17 times

42:44

in a row, the

42:46

mastermind of the kidnapping, Fred Woods, who

42:49

was at this point 67 years old,

42:51

was granted parole

42:53

in 2022. Interestingly,

42:56

California Governor Gavin

42:58

Newsom, who's the son

43:00

of Judge William Newsom, who once

43:03

called the kidnapping a stunt, was

43:05

the only one with the ability

43:08

to stop parole proceedings. Woods

43:10

attorney Gary Dubcoff told CBS

43:12

News, it is

43:14

unconscionable that Mr. Woods

43:16

remains incarcerated some 43

43:18

years after his offense

43:21

period. Apart from the committed

43:23

offense, he has no history of violence,

43:26

whether before prison or in it,

43:29

he is an elderly inmate, fast

43:31

approaching 70 and

43:33

clearly presents no danger to

43:35

anyone. I don't

43:37

know how unconscionable those

43:39

43 years of incarceration

43:42

truly were. Woods, even

43:44

from prison, was able to

43:46

access the money in his trust fund after

43:49

his parents both passed away, an

43:51

amount said to be over $100 million,

43:55

though his lawyer has denied that number.

43:58

Woods was able to live a pretty normal life. life

44:00

for someone who was in prison

44:03

and his wealth meant that he

44:05

could afford whatever commissary he wanted.

44:08

And I'll tell you more if this

44:10

is one of the things that I've

44:12

never understood about this case as

44:15

it relates to Fred Woods, his

44:17

family had a lot of money.

44:20

Now maybe he didn't have access

44:22

to it and as a young

44:25

guy thought, okay I want

44:27

to get my hands on

44:29

millions of dollars, but it

44:31

seems strange. He wasn't

44:33

desperate, he wasn't broke,

44:35

he wasn't living on

44:38

the street, he didn't need to do

44:40

this. Also my

44:42

thought is you can buy a lot of ramen

44:44

noodles at the commissary

44:47

with that money. I think it

44:49

just comes down to greed, plain and simple.

44:52

Even if he had, he didn't

44:54

have access to a lot of money, he

44:56

still lived with his family. They seemed like

44:58

they were taking care of him, they obviously left

45:00

them their fortune so it's not like they

45:02

were on bad terms even after what he

45:04

did. So why

45:07

he would do this and risk his freedom for all

45:09

those years to do something so dumb, just

45:12

the only thing that comes to my mind is it

45:14

just wasn't enough, he wanted more, he was just greedy.

45:17

Despite his attorney's claim otherwise,

45:20

Woods wasn't a model prisoner. He

45:22

was written up several times for possessing

45:24

pornographic material and multiple times for having

45:26

a cell phone. Woods was

45:28

able to run multiple businesses from inside

45:31

the prison, adding to his wealth, sometimes

45:33

with the use of those contraband cell phones he

45:35

was caught with. He was even able

45:38

to launch a lawsuit against an employee, soon

45:40

for one and a half million dollars. A

45:42

CBS article from 2019 mentioned

45:45

three of his businesses by name. The

45:48

Ambria Acres Christmas Tree Farm down

45:50

the road from Creston, California, the

45:52

Little Bear Creek Gold Mine near Lake

45:55

Tahoe and a used car

45:57

business with a warehouse filled with vehicles. He

45:59

even had a worker's compensation claim against him while

46:01

he was in prison. Michael

46:03

Bianchi, his business manager, was

46:06

in an accident at Little Bear Creek

46:08

Mine that injured his back, neck, and

46:10

shoulder. The injuries were extensive.

46:13

He hadn't just fallen and got him bruised. They

46:15

required surgery, but Woods

46:17

declined to pay or take responsibility. Administrative

46:20

law judge Michael LeCauver eventually

46:22

ruled that Bianchi was

46:24

an employee of Frederick Woods Trust. Bianchi

46:27

is the employee that Woods ended up suing, claiming

46:30

that it was his fault. Tens of thousands

46:32

of Christmas trees died, while Bianchi

46:34

claimed that Woods had never purchased a supply

46:36

of water that could keep them alive. And

46:39

I don't really understand how this

46:42

happens. You know, in

46:44

a way, even though it's much different,

46:46

kind of reminds me of that scene

46:48

in Goodfellas where the guys

46:50

are all sent to prison, but

46:53

yet they have access to, you

46:55

know, meats and

46:57

sauce and, you know, they're making

46:59

Italian gourmet

47:02

dinners in prison. Well, this guy

47:04

is getting access

47:06

to cell phones. He's running

47:08

businesses from prison. He's

47:11

making money, adding to

47:14

his already considerable fortune.

47:17

Yeah, and he's got the nerve to be

47:19

suing people, you know, from prison that are

47:22

working for him. It's

47:24

just hard to fathom all this. Yeah,

47:27

that one's kind of a real head scratcher

47:29

because you would think if

47:31

you're getting away with some of this stuff

47:33

you're not supposed to be doing, you

47:36

wouldn't go out of your way to sue

47:38

someone to bring attention to

47:40

yourself. You just settle, pay

47:43

for this guy's medical bills,

47:45

whatever it was, and just go

47:47

on. You're already getting away with

47:50

so much. But it wasn't

47:52

all business for Woods behind bars.

47:55

He was married three times while in

47:57

prison. He was also able to purchase

47:59

a home. home, a mansion

48:01

about 30 miles away from

48:03

the California men's colony where

48:06

he was housed apparently worth

48:08

one and a half million dollars.

48:10

He also sold a property on Martha's

48:13

Vineyard for $550,000. In 2019, one

48:15

Rolls Royce that has used car dealership sold

48:17

for $100,000. Now

48:26

Woods was able to acquire both

48:29

of the cargo van he and

48:31

the Schoenfeld's used to kidnap

48:33

Ed and the children. He was

48:35

hoping to sell them one day when

48:37

the price was right due to

48:39

the media attention on the crime, even

48:42

decades later. And this really

48:44

disgusted a lot of people. And

48:46

I think what it showed was that

48:49

even after going to prison for

48:51

the kidnapping, he was

48:53

still trying to profit from it.

48:56

Nonetheless, in 2022, Frederick Woods was

49:00

paroled and all of the

49:02

kidnappers were free men. The

49:04

release of these men angered their victims

49:06

because as we mentioned, none of

49:08

their victims would ever know true freedom due

49:10

to the suffering they endured, suffering

49:12

that led to years of trauma. The

49:14

day that Woods and the two Schoenfeld brothers

49:17

enacted their plot was the last day of

49:19

childhood, innocence and freedom

49:21

from worry that the 26 children

49:23

from Darrylann Elementary ever really

49:26

experienced. There was no denying

49:28

that being kidnapped and buried alive is

49:30

traumatic experience that would require

49:32

help to heal from. In

49:34

1976, things like that

49:37

weren't understood and help wasn't

49:39

readily available. Dr. Lenore

49:41

Turn, a psychiatrist from San

49:43

Francisco told CBS News, every

49:47

child chilla kid I

49:49

interviewed suffered from PTSD

49:51

symptoms for years after

49:53

the kidnapping and burial alive.

49:55

She called the 26 kids

49:58

little heroes of medicine. because

50:01

they have informed us on the

50:03

ways that children of all ages,

50:05

5 to 14, respond to

50:07

significant trauma immediately and

50:10

over time as they grow

50:12

into adults. Despite being

50:14

a light in the darkness for

50:16

the younger children while they were

50:18

trapped underground, Jodi Heffington struggled

50:20

for the rest of her life.

50:23

Jennifer Brown Hyde told CNN,

50:25

I remember Jodi Heffington was one

50:27

of the older girls who tried

50:29

to keep the younger kids calm

50:31

somewhat. The trauma of the

50:34

ordeal snuffed that light inside of her

50:36

right out. Jodi said of

50:38

the ordeal in an interview with CBS

50:40

News, I think it made

50:42

me not a good daughter, not a

50:44

good sister, not a good aunt,

50:47

and especially not a good mother, and

50:49

probably not a good friend. I

50:52

try to be those things, but

50:54

it seems like it just took

50:56

something from me that I can't

50:58

ever get back. In 2021,

51:02

Jodi passed away, just months

51:04

before Woods was granted parole. She

51:07

was just 55 years old. To

51:09

this day, Mike Marshall regrets going

51:11

home without saying anything to the media that

51:13

night he was rescued. In

51:15

the morning he saw the press conference

51:17

given by clearly shell-shocked bus driver, Ed

51:19

Ray, which left out any mention

51:21

of Mike Marshall and his bravery and

51:24

guidance. Mike told CNN, it

51:26

was my chance to tell the world what

51:28

happened, getting out and everything, and

51:30

I didn't do it. I let the

51:32

grown-ups do it. In the months after the

51:34

kidnapping, Ed Ray was asked what he would

51:36

do differently if given the chance. He told

51:39

CNN, I wouldn't stop for a van in

51:41

the road. I didn't know I had

51:43

so many friends. I don't really feel

51:45

like a hero, but for the past month everybody

51:47

has been telling me I am. At

51:50

the end of the film, Ciaochilla on HBO

51:52

Max, Mike Marshall, who is

51:54

now 61, meets with another survivor,

51:56

Larry Park, who was just 6 at the

51:59

time of the kidnapping. Larry says, I'm

52:01

standing with my hero. I can't

52:03

believe what he did. I still can't believe it.

52:06

As they hug, Larry says thank you so

52:08

much, Mike. It's plain to see that

52:10

even after so much time has passed, this

52:12

harrowing event from 1976 still

52:15

weighs heavily on those who went through it. And

52:18

for those of you who haven't watched

52:20

the film, this part that

52:23

Morph just described, it's

52:26

a tearjerker. I mean, you're

52:28

talking about people in their

52:31

50s and 60s reliving,

52:33

hugging about

52:35

something that happened when they were

52:38

kids. And for

52:40

Larry Park, it's almost like

52:43

he's meeting a superhero. I

52:46

mean, that's the type of admiration that

52:49

he has for Mike Marshall. And

52:52

it's clear that Mike

52:54

Marshall wished that he

52:56

could go back and tell the

52:58

media his side

53:00

of the story, because it really

53:02

didn't come out for

53:04

many, many years. And we mentioned

53:06

earlier in the episode how

53:09

Chow Chilla kind of has

53:11

an Ed Ray day. Ed

53:14

Ray, being the adult,

53:16

was seen as kind of the

53:18

savior of all these children.

53:22

And Ed did

53:24

a great job, but what

53:26

they left out early on is

53:29

the unbelievable bravery of

53:32

Mike Marshall, because I

53:34

don't know, Morph, that they get

53:36

out of this makeshift

53:38

bunker without Mike Marshall. You

53:42

know, there was a lot of talk about

53:44

Ed Ray being fearful

53:47

to even try to escape,

53:50

because he was worried that

53:53

men with guns would be there to meet

53:55

them. Now, that's a reasonable

53:57

fear, but Mike didn't seem to have it.

54:00

that fear. His only thought

54:03

seemed to be, we're getting the

54:05

heck out of here. So in a way,

54:07

you know, I do feel really bad for Mike

54:10

because it took many, many years, I

54:12

think, for him to get the credit

54:15

that he deserves. And I'm

54:17

not downplaying what Ed Ray did, but

54:20

they even wrote a song about

54:22

Ed Ray and you can go out

54:25

on YouTube and listen to it. He was

54:28

hailed as kind of the conquering

54:30

hero. And again, not downplaying

54:33

what he did, just saying

54:35

that Mike Marshall deserved a

54:38

lot more credit than he got. And

54:40

so did some of the other kids. You

54:43

know, we talk about Jody Heffington

54:45

helping to, to keep people

54:48

calm, keep some of the younger kids

54:50

calm. And what happened to

54:52

her, it tears me up to

54:55

think that this

54:58

ordeal changed her life

55:00

in such a way. And

55:02

she said it in her own words. She

55:04

wasn't a good daughter. She wasn't a

55:06

good sister and mother

55:09

friend. And she believed,

55:11

I think that it all went

55:14

back to the trauma

55:16

that she experienced during this ordeal.

55:20

And it seems like Mike

55:22

here, especially having that,

55:25

that bravery, that grit to make

55:28

the determination at 14 years old

55:30

that, hey, if, if, if I'm going to

55:32

die, I'm going to die trying to get out of

55:34

here. That's, you know, I don't

55:36

know if every adult would think the same thing.

55:38

So he definitely deserves

55:40

credit. And I think they all

55:42

deserve credit for, for living through

55:44

this and sticking together. Because if

55:47

any one of them maybe had not

55:49

cooperated or had tried to escape or

55:53

who knows what could have happened, the

55:55

outcome could have been different. These guys could have

55:57

panicked and shot one of them. knows

56:00

and just thankfully

56:02

they all did make it out of it alive. So

56:05

we mentioned in the beginning of the

56:07

episode that this

56:09

case had a quote unquote positive

56:12

ending and obviously it did right.

56:14

It's positive in the fact that the kids were

56:16

saved. They're kidnappers convicted and

56:18

in prison for their crimes,

56:21

but it would be very difficult, impossible

56:24

really to say that there was

56:26

a happy ending. None

56:28

of the children had the lives they would

56:30

have lived without the trauma

56:33

they endured. Reporter Patty

56:35

Mandrel summed it up best in

56:38

box.com saying, this is the

56:40

story of a town coming together. There

56:42

wasn't a single person in this

56:44

town who didn't know somebody on

56:46

that bus thinking more on

56:48

the matter. She added, it was like a

56:50

storm, a calamity that the

56:52

town had to weather. After

56:55

the storm passed, Patty said

56:57

things changed. You didn't see

56:59

kids on the street and if

57:01

you did their parents were grasping

57:03

them for dear life. And

57:05

that's something that we see in a

57:08

lot of cases. You have

57:10

a town like Chow Chilla

57:12

and we kind of painted the picture of the

57:14

town kids out

57:16

riding their bikes until the street

57:18

lights came on. Basically,

57:21

you know, doing what they wanted

57:23

to do, getting a lot of freedom

57:25

probably from their parents until

57:27

you have something like

57:29

this happen. And then the town

57:32

completely changes as does the behavior of

57:35

the parents. They're

57:37

scared. They don't want to let their

57:39

kids out. I think it's very

57:42

sad that that ordeal changes town

57:44

forever and it was the loss of

57:48

the town's innocence and it would never

57:50

be the same again. Yeah, no

57:52

doubt. So as we wrap up

57:55

this episode, it's a very interesting

57:57

case in the fact that good

58:00

kind of triumphed over

58:02

evil. All of these children

58:04

lived, but their

58:07

lives were significantly

58:09

altered. One of the

58:11

things that continues to perplex me is

58:14

Fred Woods. It's just

58:17

hard to get a grasp on why

58:19

this guy felt he needed to do what

58:21

he did. I get it, everybody

58:24

wants money. And even though

58:26

your parents are rich, it

58:28

doesn't mean you have money. But

58:30

to try to get it by kidnapping

58:33

a school bus full of children. And

58:35

then, how does he get these brothers to

58:38

go along with his plan? Because

58:40

that's a question I have in

58:42

all of these cases. Somebody has

58:44

an idea to commit a crime.

58:47

How do you then broach the

58:49

subject with an

58:52

accomplice or multiple accomplices?

58:55

And you talk to these people and they're like,

58:57

okay, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. I

59:00

never understand that. Yeah, you would

59:02

think that somebody in that group is gonna be a voice

59:04

of reason and say, wait a minute, we can't do this.

59:07

It's against the law. And

59:10

if we get caught and we're sentenced to

59:12

life in prison without parole, is

59:14

it worth splitting $5 million, three

59:16

ways, for

59:19

the risk of going to prison for the

59:21

rest of our lives without being released? It

59:24

seems like they didn't weigh the possible

59:26

consequences of their actions. Well,

59:29

and isn't that kind of what

59:31

we see with a lot of criminals? They

59:33

either don't weigh the

59:36

consequences or what could happen to

59:38

them, or they do, but

59:41

they still make the decision that it's

59:43

worth the risk. And now,

59:46

let's face it, $5 million in the 1970s was

59:50

a boatload of money. We've seen people

59:53

take even greater risks or

59:55

similar risks for much

59:58

less money, 50 bucks. a hundred

1:00:00

dollars, but I think it's the

1:00:02

wealth of Fred woods family that

1:00:06

really has me so confused

1:00:10

about the whole thing. But no

1:00:12

doubt a very sad case, even though

1:00:15

no one died, everyone lived.

1:00:18

It's just the way that they

1:00:20

were forced to live how their lives

1:00:22

were affected. Incredibly sad. But

1:00:25

that's it for our episode on the

1:00:27

Ciao, Chilla Kidnapping. If you love the

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1:00:58

for another episode of Criminology, but Morv

1:01:01

and I will be back with all

1:01:03

of you next Saturday night with a

1:01:05

brand new episode. So until then for

1:01:07

Mike and Morv, we'll talk to you

1:01:09

next week. Take care, everyone. Save

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