0:00

Facts are facts, like

0:02

how contributing to employees' financial security

0:04

makes them want to work harder for their company. In

0:07

fact, according to a 2023 study

0:09

by Principle, 87% of employers

0:12

say that better employee financial security

0:15

means employees are more engaged and

0:17

productive at work. The fact of the matter

0:19

is that employees want to feel financially

0:21

secure in their future. So consider

0:24

this. Principle helps you invest

0:26

in your employees by providing customized

0:28

benefits and retirement plans to help

0:30

keep your employees more engaged and

0:32

productive. When you take care of your team,

0:35

they take care of business.

0:37

That's a fact. Learn how Principle

0:39

can help you find the right benefits and retirement

0:41

plan for your team at Principle.com

0:44

slash benefits.

0:45

Products and services offered by member companies

0:48

of the Principle Financial Group Des Moines, Iowa.

0:51

For important information, visit Principle.com

0:53

slash disclosures.

0:55

My father had a saying that he would repeat to me and

0:57

my siblings. Protect yourself at all times.

1:00

He certainly left his mark on the world, his

1:02

city, and his family. 911, what's your

1:05

emergency?

1:05

In the early evening on New Year's

1:07

Eve in 1973, a 34-year-old man was found bleeding to

1:12

death on the street with multiple bullet

1:14

wounds to his chest, stomach, and

1:16

leg. This man was Anthony Virgilio,

1:19

Tony to his friends.

1:21

According to Stockton police, in his dying moments,

1:24

Tony told them that he had come downtown

1:26

for a meeting with his former business partner,

1:29

Calvin Jones. Calvin Jones would

1:31

spend 30 years in prison for Tony's murder.

1:34

And for 30 years, Calvin Jones would call

1:36

my house and speak to my father. And

1:38

I always wondered, what were they talking about? What

1:41

did my dad have to say to a convicted

1:43

murderer? From Sonoro and Tenderfoot

1:45

TV, I'm Alex Estrada, and this is

1:48

The Estate. The Estate is a true crime

1:50

documentary podcast series about the burning

1:52

question that has haunted me for 20

1:54

years.

1:55

When my dad died, he left behind

1:57

a question. Was he responsible

1:59

for killing him? telling Tony Virgilio. The

2:02

estate is available September 13th. Listen

2:04

for free wherever you get your podcasts.

2:27

Listen

2:30

to free.

2:59

This is Ariel Watkins,

3:01

the daughter of Tim Watkins,

3:03

the victim in this story.

3:17

Tim

3:23

was 61 years old when he disappeared

3:26

on Mount Herman near his home in Palmer

3:28

Lake, Colorado. As

3:30

an avid outdoorsman and cyclist, he

3:32

was known to spend days on end hitting the trails

3:35

and enjoying the great outdoors. But

3:37

on Thursday, September 14, 2017, Tim

3:41

went out for a routine biking excursion

3:44

on his favorite trail and lost contact

3:46

with his family. A few hours

3:48

without communication was not unusual, but

3:51

when the hours turned into days, concerns

3:54

began to melt. It wouldn't

3:56

take long for a search party to find Tim's

3:58

bike next to a tree.

3:59

with no sign of him signaling that

4:02

something bad had occurred. The

4:04

very next day, that fear would

4:06

be confirmed when the search

4:08

party found his body not far

4:10

from where his bike was discovered the day before.

4:12

This has been

4:14

hard for our family. It's

4:16

hard to even speak about it and

4:19

I don't ever like to wish bad things on people and

4:22

I hope that the person that did this is suffering

4:25

like we are, that

4:26

they feel this pain too. It's

4:31

been nearly six years since Tim's death and

4:34

authorities have remained fairly hushed about the

4:36

details surrounding this case. While

4:39

the family has tried their best to be patient and

4:41

let the investigation run its course, they're

4:43

starting to fear that it's halted to a complete stop.

4:46

Tim's daughter Ariel has felt compelled

4:49

to get the word out about her father's unsolved

4:51

case in hopes that something of substance

4:54

will finally come from this investigation. We

4:57

just got to keep pressing as

4:59

best as we can and I feel like if

5:01

we're a loud, conclamorative voice

5:04

yelling for justice that maybe they'll hear us.

5:06

This is a culpable

5:09

case review of Tim Watkins.

5:35

Ariel, correct? Yes, like

5:37

the mermaid. Like the mermaid. Nice

5:40

to meet you again. I came across

5:42

Tim's story just a few months ago. It was

5:45

actually recommended to us by his daughter, Ariel.

5:48

It's a case that has a fair amount of media coverage,

5:51

news articles, and even a few podcast episodes.

5:54

But what struck me was that even amidst the coverage,

5:57

very little is known about the events surrounding Tim's

5:59

death.

5:59

Most importantly, who's responsible?

6:02

After connecting with Ariel, I learned that just

6:04

recently she'd reached a place where she's ready to

6:07

share her dad's story. And

6:09

as she settled into a local studio in Colorado,

6:11

I quickly realized why she was so keen to share

6:13

it.

6:14

Ariel's life was shaped by her dad from

6:16

the very beginning. My

6:18

name is Ariel Watkins. I am Tim Watkins'

6:21

daughter. I grew up in

6:23

Monument and Palmer Lake area, so I

6:25

spent a lot of time on that mountain.

6:29

After I graduated high school, I traveled

6:31

a little bit and dabbled around into

6:33

different parts of the country, but pretty

6:35

much my whole life has been here in Colorado.

6:39

Right now, I'm actually in school to be a massage therapist,

6:42

so in August I will be graduating and I will be

6:44

pursuing that. I've been wanting to be a massage

6:46

therapist for about 10 years now, so

6:48

this is a dream coming true, and something

6:51

my dad would have wanted me to do too. Ariel

6:54

tells me that she and her dad were always very

6:57

close, more like friends than a

6:59

parent and child.

7:00

He had an affectionate sense of humor, and

7:03

went out of his way to provide a life full of joy

7:05

for Ariel and her younger brother Isaac.

7:07

Oh my gosh, he was so goofy, and

7:10

so silly, and so fun. There

7:13

was always childlike wonder with everything

7:15

that he did. We loved to do

7:18

Disney movies together, like Lilo and Stitch

7:20

is one of our favorite movies that we would watch together.

7:23

And I remembered we liked to listen to this

7:25

Elvis album, especially after Lilo and Stitch

7:28

came out, and we would just like, when

7:30

the Devil in Disguise song came on, we would just

7:32

like start shaking and

7:34

dancing and having so much fun. He

7:36

just, he was just silly,

7:39

and he knew how to joke and

7:41

laugh about things. Like even when things were

7:43

hard, he would just find a way to make like a silly

7:45

face or say something

7:46

that would just bring you back

7:49

and make you smile, and just

7:51

a good person all around.

7:54

Compassionate person. He

7:57

was my best friend. While

8:00

there was plenty of fun and joy growing up,

8:03

Ariel admits that life wasn't always easy

8:05

for the Watkins family. But when she

8:07

reflects back on her childhood, she recognizes

8:10

that Tim was really the one saving Grace

8:12

in all of it.

8:13

So my parents actually separated

8:16

when I was two and I loved

8:19

getting to spend time with my dad. I

8:21

would get to spend the weekends with him for the most part

8:23

in holidays.

8:25

I wanted to live with my dad. I'd always

8:27

been closer with him. My mom and I have always

8:29

kind of butted heads. So once he got

8:31

full custody of me, I was really really stoked

8:33

to be with him full-time. We just really

8:36

got along. He understood me really well.

8:38

We just vibed, I guess is the best way

8:41

of putting it. And when

8:43

he remarried, they were only together

8:45

for a year and then after they separated

8:47

he still remained with full custody

8:49

of us. And I was very grateful for that. I

8:51

didn't really want to live with my mom.

8:53

Although Ariel and her younger brother Isaac

8:55

had to navigate growing up in a broken home, she

8:58

tells me that Tim did everything in his power to

9:00

bring stability. This was never

9:02

more true than when the three would spend time together

9:05

outdoors.

9:06

So everything that we did was really

9:09

like wholesome and valuable. I

9:11

feel like with him he was very

9:14

outdoorsy. He loved to take us camping.

9:16

I

9:17

loved just getting

9:19

to explore nature with him. That was his playground. And

9:23

then

9:24

just riding bikes with him when I was a kid is

9:26

just some of the best memories that I have. Ariel

9:30

will never forget all the quality time she

9:32

and her dad spent together out on the trails. She

9:35

remembers as a young kid struggling to

9:37

get up some of the steeper hills. Tim

9:39

would always place his hand on her back and give

9:41

her a nudge while encouraging her. Come

9:44

on, you got this, Ariel. That

9:47

was his nickname for her. Tim

9:49

was adventurous through and through.

9:51

He grew up as a boy scout

9:53

and learned survival skills early in life. He

9:56

was a true outdoorsman.

9:58

Ariel always admired these qualities.

9:59

But she was also fond of another one

10:02

of Tim's passions. Throughout his

10:04

life, he developed a deep appreciation

10:06

for Native American culture.

10:07

Some of her earliest memories were through

10:10

experiences they had paying homage to indigenous

10:12

people. Pow Wow,

10:14

when I was five, was probably

10:16

one of the coolest experiences ever, like seeing

10:20

all the dancing and regalia

10:22

that everyone was wearing and like the sound

10:24

of the drums resonates with me deeply.

10:27

He did a lot of Native American beadwork, so he'd

10:29

make beadwork pieces for people's bicycles.

10:32

He made beautiful patterns that he would

10:34

take from books that were from

10:36

designs that were

10:37

from Native American culture and specifically

10:40

tried to pay homage to their heritage

10:42

and was really just

10:45

so compassionate and caring about the culture.

10:48

When I was a baby, he also

10:50

had me blessed by a Native

10:52

American medicine man and I was given a Native

10:54

American name. My name is Staranariah

10:57

or We Chumpy Alicia. He

11:00

made me a dress and I have pictures

11:02

of when I was a baby in this regalia and

11:04

like

11:06

it was just really special,

11:07

a sacred portion of him that

11:09

I try and keep alive.

11:12

Over time, Tim built a strong friendship

11:14

with a man who was a member of the Lakota

11:17

Tribe, the largest tribal group in Colorado

11:19

by origin.

11:21

And what started out as an appreciation for

11:23

their way of life eventually became something

11:25

much bigger and more meaningful. Ariel

11:28

doesn't take for granted how eye-opening it was for her.

11:30

These people who are indigenous

11:33

to this land are living in

11:35

basically third world countries and are

11:37

treated so differently even though

11:40

they did nothing to deserve this. And

11:42

the way cases are handled on the reservation

11:45

are so much different than how they're handled

11:48

within like our normal

11:51

government. And he

11:53

wanted to give those people a voice and

11:55

he wanted to be standing with them

11:57

and just be an ally and I think that

11:59

that's really important. really important. To

12:02

this day, Ariel seeks to fulfill her

12:04

dad's mission,

12:05

whether through advocacy or attending festivals,

12:08

any way to share her appreciation for Native American

12:10

culture.

12:12

She describes Tim as a man of many passions,

12:15

activism, of course, being one. But

12:17

she admits that probably nothing exceeded

12:19

the passion he had for his first love. First

12:24

and foremost, mountain biking. That was his everything.

12:27

I remember being little, going to

12:29

the Velodrome in Colorado Springs and

12:31

seeing Olympic cyclists, doing road cycling,

12:34

doing all sorts of mountain biking events with him.

12:37

His passion was cycling. He loved

12:39

everything about it.

12:42

As I learned more about Tim's love for cycling,

12:45

Ariel explained that it was a miracle Tim

12:47

was even able to pursue this passion, making

12:49

it all the more special to him.

12:52

When he was a Forest Service person

12:55

and working for the Forest Service, he actually broke

12:57

his ankles off, going down

12:59

a cable line, and he ended up

13:01

putting his feet out in front of him to stop him. Then

13:04

when his feet snapped, they had

13:06

to re-sew his ankles back on. He ended

13:08

up having limited mobility in his ankles, and he

13:10

couldn't move like normal people

13:12

could with their legs. Cycling

13:16

was non-weight-bearing pressure. He

13:18

was able to actually get himself

13:20

onto a bike with casts on.

13:22

He was double casted up, and he would scoot himself

13:24

onto a mat, hoist himself onto

13:27

a bike and go ride. That way he could get

13:29

exercise. He

13:31

loved mountain biking, and nothing could stop

13:33

him from being on it. The fact

13:36

that he was able to do as much

13:38

with cycling as he was was incredible.

13:40

He would come to my soccer games,

13:42

and I would see him try and run, and you could see

13:44

how much pain it was for him

13:47

to try and run, but him on a bike was like a duck

13:49

to water. That was where he was

13:51

just a speed demon. Do

13:53

you have a lot of similarities? Are you

13:56

a mountain biker? Well,

13:58

I actually... didn't mountain

14:00

bike for a while, especially after

14:02

his murder, I didn't think I was ever going to mountain

14:05

bike again. Last year

14:07

was the first time I took my first solo

14:10

mountain bike ride here in Boulder and

14:12

it was a really special accomplishment.

14:15

The bike I have was actually built

14:17

by him for someone else when he

14:19

had his bike shop and monument a long time ago

14:21

so I got to ride with him so that was

14:24

really,

14:25

really special for me. You

14:28

hear that sound? It's the sound of a

14:30

sale you're missing out on because you're not selling

14:32

on Shopify. And what does it sound like with

14:35

Shopify? Ah, much

14:37

better. Start selling with Shopify

14:39

today. Shopify is the commerce platform

14:41

revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide.

14:44

Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO

14:46

ready, Shopify is the only tool you need

14:48

to start, run, and grow your business

14:50

without the struggle. Shopify puts you in

14:53

control of every sales channel. So whether

14:55

you're selling satin sheets from Shopify's in-person

14:57

POS system or offering organic

14:59

olive oil on Shopify's all-in-one e-commerce

15:02

platform, you're covered. And once you've

15:04

reached your audience, Shopify has the internet's

15:07

best converting checkout to help you turn them from

15:09

browsers to buyers. Sign up for a $1

15:11

per month trial period at shopify.com

15:14

slash Odyssey podcast. All lowercase.

15:16

Go to shopify.com slash Odyssey

15:18

podcast to take your business to the next

15:21

level today. Shopify.com

15:23

slash Odyssey podcast.

15:26

We're going to build a train so

15:28

big, it can't be stopped. From

15:32

the executive producers of Power, we

15:34

got enemies eyeing us, cops clocking us. Comes

15:36

the new season of Power Book Four, Force.

15:39

How many egans is the lynchpin to bringing down

15:41

all of these gangs? Egans

15:44

too dangerous to be left alive. Power

15:48

Book Four, Force. Game

15:51

over. Premieres Friday,

15:53

September 1st only on Stars and

15:55

the Stars app.

15:58

If there's one thing I've learned about Tim Watkins...

16:00

It's that nothing was more essential to him than

16:02

mountain biking. Amidst all the pain

16:05

and hardship resulting from his work incident,

16:07

bicycles kind of became his crutch, you

16:09

could say.

16:11

But cycling wasn't just a hobby of Tim's.

16:13

He made a career from it as well. Really,

16:15

it became a way of life.

16:17

He's always been passionate about mountain

16:20

biking, but he did go to college

16:23

to be an educator. So he

16:25

did get a teacher's license, and then

16:27

he ended up going to bicycle mechanic school

16:29

after that, and then ended up just working in bike shops

16:31

instead.

16:32

He also loved building

16:35

mountain bike trails too. So in our

16:37

area where we grew up, he

16:39

would take us to go help fix trails

16:41

and make sure that they were rideable or create

16:44

drains where water had washed away certain

16:46

places.

16:47

Most of the trails that are up there, my

16:49

dad helped build or helped maintain

16:52

or create it. So this was his playground.

16:55

The mountains surrounding Palmer Lake, the

16:58

area Tim grew up in, always held

17:00

a special place in his heart. It was his

17:02

oasis.

17:03

But Ariel tells me that over the years, the

17:06

area did go through some changes and not in a

17:08

good way. Of course, that didn't stop

17:10

Tim from going there. When

17:13

I was growing up, it was really quiet, and it wasn't

17:15

really populated trail. And

17:18

then as I got into high school, it

17:20

became more popular for people

17:22

to go off-roading and do illegal

17:24

shooting in certain areas. So

17:27

it started gaining popularity

17:29

when I was in high school. And when I moved away

17:32

and came back, it had gotten worse.

17:35

So there had been people that were transients

17:37

that were living up there full time now.

17:40

There was illegal dumps and stuff like

17:42

that happening. So it was a lot more

17:44

trashed, a lot more populated.

17:47

We spent a lot of time in that area.

17:51

So really knew where

17:53

trails were safe and where

17:55

you would have the possibility of running into people

17:57

or not, essentially.

17:59

Tim's adventurous

18:02

spirit and love of nature often

18:04

collided when he would take impromptu camping

18:06

or cycling trips. It wasn't

18:08

uncommon for him to be gone all day or

18:10

even multiple days on end while finding

18:13

solace on the trails, and his

18:15

family knew he could look after himself out there.

18:18

So when he went missing around September 14,

18:22

2017, his family wasn't too concerned. But

18:25

when the next morning rolled around with no

18:27

contact from Tim,

18:29

they got the sense that he might be in danger.

18:32

The only

18:33

time that I ever heard about him ever being

18:36

scared on his mountain bike was when

18:39

he was riding up that reservoir trail

18:41

and a mountain lion actually came up from behind

18:44

him and ran past him.

18:46

That was the scariest moment. So when

18:49

that came up, I assumed either

18:51

he had gotten attacked by an animal

18:53

or he was hit by a vehicle and

18:56

knocked off the road. That maybe he was riding

18:58

down it and people were driving recklessly

19:00

and hit him because that is also very

19:03

common that people get hit by cars

19:05

in that area.

19:06

My first thoughts was he's hurt and he needs

19:09

help because his feet don't

19:11

work well, he can't run, and if he is really

19:13

hurt,

19:14

then he's really in trouble and we gotta go

19:16

find him. So when he

19:19

initially went missing, homicide

19:21

wasn't the first thing that was on my mind, and I assumed

19:24

it was mountain lion. In the six years since

19:26

Tim's death, still much is unknown

19:28

about what happened up in those mountains. This

19:31

has fueled Ariel to advocate for her dad

19:33

and best friend.

19:35

Recently she's found herself doing a lot of reflecting

19:38

on the events surrounding her father's death.

19:40

Even after all this time, she remembers

19:42

the days around Tim's disappearance pretty well.

19:46

So I was living in Crested Butte

19:48

and I had talked to my dad about a

19:51

day or two before he went

19:53

missing. My stepmother,

19:56

her name is Ginger, my dad and

19:58

her had gotten married about two years years before

20:01

on this fall harvest called Vinna Talk

20:04

and it's a celebration that's done in Crested

20:06

Butte.

20:07

My husband and I participate and every year we

20:09

do fire art performance for

20:11

it. My daughter was 10 months

20:14

old so this was my first year doing fire

20:16

performance again after having a baby

20:18

and we were getting

20:20

ready for all the events that were coming up that weekend.

20:23

It had to be like on a on Monday

20:25

or Tuesday that we spoke

20:28

because Thursday was the night that he went

20:30

out for a ride

20:32

and that was the last thing that I heard from

20:34

him. She

20:37

tells me that the last person known to have seen

20:39

Tim was his wife at the time, Ginger,

20:41

who Ariel is very close with to this day.

20:44

She says that Ginger is an incredible woman and

20:46

that she's grateful for the amount of support she's provided

20:49

her.

20:50

To give a little backstory here,

20:51

Tim and Ginger both grew up in the Palmer Lake

20:54

area and were childhood friends before

20:56

getting reacquainted in 2014.

20:59

Their reacquaintance couldn't have happened at a better time.

21:02

Tim was lonely and looking for love

21:04

and Ginger was in a pretty bad place mentally.

21:08

Over the years she lost her sister to diabetes,

21:11

her father to esophageal cancer, her

21:13

son to suicide, and most

21:15

recently her brother to lung cancer. It's

21:19

safe to say that when Tim came back into the picture,

21:21

his kind spirit was very much welcomed

21:24

by Ginger. The couple quickly

21:26

fell in love and got married in 2015 at the

21:28

annual Venetok festival

21:31

in Crested Butte, the one Ariel

21:33

just mentioned

21:34

that was approaching the week her dad went missing.

21:37

While Ariel claims the couple were very much

21:39

in love, she admits that they had been

21:41

going through somewhat of a spell in the days leading

21:43

up to Tim's disappearance and were attempting

21:46

to reset the relationship.

21:48

From what I've gathered, a lot of this centered

21:50

around Tim's financial problems and Ginger

21:52

having to provide, though he had

21:54

recently found work after not working for several

21:57

months prior.

21:59

kind of been going through a little bit of a rough patch and

22:02

he was sleeping in his car and

22:04

he told me that Ginger and

22:06

them were gonna celebrate her birthday together and that

22:08

he was gonna stay at her house that night.

22:11

So it was Thursday night

22:13

that they were supposed to be together. She

22:16

had been working long hours and

22:19

she got home at like 8 30 and

22:21

she thought it was weird that he wasn't home

22:25

but she assumed he just went out to

22:27

go camp again. Although

22:30

the couple had been in a rough patch as Ariel

22:33

puts it

22:34

she says the last time she spoke with her father

22:36

just days before his disappearance he

22:38

explained that he and Ginger had recently

22:40

made amends.

22:42

The two even made arrangements in Palmer Lake for

22:44

Ginger's birthday that Thursday.

22:47

After that they would head to Ariel's hometown

22:49

of Crested Butte to commemorate their anniversary

22:52

at the Angel Venetok fest that was happening that weekend.

22:55

But on the morning of Thursday September

22:57

14th

22:58

also Ginger's birthday

23:00

Tim told Ginger that he was going to take

23:02

a bike ride in the mountains before coming

23:04

home to start their busy weekend.

23:07

Ginger left for a shift at the hospital where

23:09

she worked as a radiology tech

23:11

but when she returned home from work that night Tim

23:14

wasn't there. This seemed odd

23:17

to her but assuming he'd taken the night to

23:19

camp after finishing his bike ride she

23:21

wasn't overly alarmed

23:23

though she did send some texts to try and check in

23:25

on him to no avail.

23:27

Come Friday morning she'd still not

23:30

heard from Tim. Around 10 a.m.

23:32

she called the old town bike shop in Colorado

23:35

Springs where Tim worked at the time

23:37

to check and see if he'd come in for work that morning

23:39

and she was told that he had not shown up for

23:41

work

23:42

or even called in which was practically

23:45

unheard of.

23:46

At this point

23:47

it had been about 24 hours since anyone had

23:49

heard from Tim.

23:51

Ginger and the kids were officially concerned.

23:56

And then I get a call on Friday

23:58

from Ginger asking if I

24:01

would know where he might have gone on a

24:03

ride or if he might be somewhere.

24:06

And I told her I had no idea. So

24:09

I immediately went on like social media

24:12

and got on to friends that I knew

24:14

were hikers or bikers within that

24:16

area and asked if they may

24:18

have seen him or heard from him. His

24:22

car was parked at Ginger's house. So we knew his car

24:24

was where it was supposed to be but we couldn't find his

24:26

bike and we couldn't find him. We

24:29

couldn't get attached with him with his phone. And

24:33

on Saturday is when

24:35

we officially put out the missing

24:37

person's phone call.

24:39

Ginger actually started posting about Tim's disappearance

24:42

on social media the morning of Saturday,

24:44

September 16th, which would turn out

24:46

to be beneficial to the search as volunteers

24:48

immediately responded.

24:50

Later that day, she called the Palmer Lake

24:52

Police Department to report Tim missing,

24:55

but the search was already in full swing.

24:57

A large dedicated group of volunteers

24:59

had begun to scour the area. Nobody

25:02

knew for sure where he may have gone,

25:04

but one thing was for certain, it wasn't

25:06

gonna be the easiest area to search

25:08

due to its size and rugged terrain,

25:10

mountains, and thick forest. While

25:13

Ariel made plans to travel there from her home in

25:15

Crested Butte,

25:16

Ginger and Isaac joined in on the search for

25:18

Tim.

25:20

My brother, he

25:22

was in his own rogue search party

25:24

because my brother knew the area very

25:26

well too. He spent a lot of time hiking

25:29

and fishing and camping up there as well.

25:32

So he was looking in the places

25:34

that he knew people

25:36

might not know to look right away.

25:39

And he

25:40

was searching in the deeper

25:42

parts of the mountain,

25:43

more of the like secluded trails that he knew

25:45

my dad knew of, but maybe not everybody else.

25:48

The other search parties were starting

25:51

at the base of Mount Herman and kind of going

25:53

up the mountain following that

25:56

service road

25:57

and following the trails that were

25:59

the same. tracks in that area. We

26:02

knew Limbaugh Canyon was one of his favorite trails

26:05

so I think that's where we decided that's where we were

26:07

gonna really start doing more thorough investigation.

26:10

They were able to

26:12

recover a shoe

26:14

on Saturday and they

26:16

found his bike leaning up against

26:19

a tree. So like as

26:21

soon as the shoe was found I knew that this was

26:23

not good. Ginger

26:26

quickly identified Tim's shoe, a size 42

26:29

Pearl Izumi that had been found along

26:31

Mount Herman Road. A few hours

26:34

later his bike was found resting

26:36

on its side next to a tree about

26:39

a quarter mile from where Mount Herman Road breaks

26:41

into Limbaugh Canyon Trail, a trail

26:43

Tim frequented. The

26:45

next day Sunday April

26:47

17th

26:48

the search party discovered additional items scattered

26:51

across the area.

26:52

According to multiple sources the other

26:55

items found were Tim's cell phone case,

26:57

a grocery store card,

26:59

and other random items from his wallet.

27:02

But the most shocking discovery would

27:04

come just hours later

27:06

when Tim's body was finally found,

27:09

covered with some brush

27:10

and a shallow grave

27:12

roughly 50 feet from where his bike had been

27:14

found. Yeah

27:17

just off to the side of the favorite trail. There's

27:20

a big meadow

27:22

and then a bouldery section

27:25

that you come into where there's

27:27

like a kind of like a rock canyon

27:29

but it's just big boulders and

27:31

it's a little hilly

27:33

and he was found

27:36

just outside of that boulder area

27:38

so it was kind of like

27:40

dug out a little bit like it

27:42

wasn't deep at all like two

27:44

or three feet maybe I would say

27:47

and then covered with the

27:49

dirt that was surrounding that area.

27:51

I think somebody actually may have seen

27:54

something sticking out of the ground and started

27:56

to like look and that's

27:59

when they found him.

28:01

After going missing for nearly four days,

28:04

Tim's body was discovered and quickly

28:06

identified. According to various

28:08

news sources, Tim had a bag on his person

28:11

that had an uneaten banana in it,

28:14

indicating he may not have been on the trail long

28:16

before he was killed.

28:18

But interestingly, the other items Tim

28:20

was believed to have with him,

28:22

his camel hydration pack,

28:24

his cell phone,

28:25

windbreaker, helmet,

28:27

socks, and his other matching cycling

28:29

shoe were missing,

28:31

and to this day

28:33

have not been recovered.

28:35

But based on the personal items that were recovered,

28:38

along with the discovery of Tim's buried body, law

28:41

enforcement were starting to put together the pieces.

28:44

It was Monday morning that

28:47

we were called into El Paso County's Sheriff's

28:49

Office. My brother,

28:52

my stepmom, and my

28:55

husband was there. None of us

28:57

had any idea of what had happened

28:59

because none of us had seen his body

29:02

when they told me that they found gunshot wounds

29:04

on him. That was the last thing

29:07

I was anticipating to hear.

29:09

I knew growing up there

29:12

that there's people that do go illegally

29:14

shoot, and my dad had encountered

29:16

them before on the trail, but he would always

29:19

be very polite when he would see people be

29:21

like, "'Hey, make sure you guys are, "'there's cyclists

29:23

coming down in this way, "'make sure you're shooting into

29:25

the backstop.'"

29:26

Upon hearing the news, Ariel

29:29

tried hard to rationalize. She

29:31

knew that illegal shooting had become a problem in the

29:33

area.

29:34

She thought it must have been a terrible accident.

29:37

The shooter probably panicked, buried Tim's

29:39

body, and spread his belongings around the area,

29:42

but authorities had a little more information to share.

29:45

He was shot twice,

29:48

once in the chest, and once as a defensive

29:51

wound on his hand. The

29:53

weapon that was used was a .22.

29:56

I want to point out that other reports claim Tim

29:59

was shot in three- different places. He

30:01

had an injury to his hand, his ear

30:03

had been grazed, and the fatal shot entered

30:06

near his ribs and did not exit.

30:10

And

30:11

they told us that they

30:13

determined his death to be a homicide. And

30:18

my heart just dropped. I

30:21

couldn't understand why anybody

30:24

would shoot him. And

30:27

the second thought was like, well, there was no

30:29

reason to. They didn't even steal his bike.

30:32

They didn't steal his wallet. He

30:34

had no money to take. What was the point of

30:36

shooting this person? And I

30:38

just couldn't wrap my head around it. And

30:42

it just felt so malicious. Rex

30:55

Hauerman is a demon that

30:57

walks among us, a

31:00

predator that ruined families.

31:03

The LISK podcast team was shocked by

31:06

the recent news of Rex Hauerman's arrest in

31:08

connection with the giggle for murders. After

31:10

more than a decade of searching, law

31:12

enforcement officials finally pieced together

31:14

enough evidence to bring formal charges against

31:16

him. I'm your

31:18

host, Chris Moss. The LISK podcast will be

31:20

releasing new episodes every week to unpack

31:23

how Hauerman was caught. We'll track

31:25

developments in the case, as well as conduct interviews

31:27

with officials and witnesses familiar to all the troubling

31:30

details. We are relieved by the arrest,

31:32

but with new information coming to light every day,

31:34

there's still so much to learn. Look

31:36

for new episodes every week. And if you haven't

31:38

already, please listen to Seasons 1 and 2

31:41

of LISK Long Island Serial Killer wherever

31:43

you listen to podcasts.

31:55

side

32:00

came as a shock to everybody in the community,

32:03

and especially Ariel and the rest of Tim's

32:05

family.

32:07

The El Paso County Sheriff's Office immediately

32:09

took control of Tim's investigation, which

32:11

the family was very thankful for, as there

32:13

were concerns with the volunteer searchers handling

32:16

of the scene and potential evidence.

32:19

I found out later that

32:21

the shoe, when they found it, that

32:24

all the people in the search and rescue were touching the

32:26

shoe. There was no bag

32:29

or anything like that, so people were handling

32:31

his shoe. So

32:34

anything that I feel like could have had fingerprints

32:36

on it got

32:38

messed up. Where his

32:40

body was found, the search

32:42

and rescue team was basically saying they may

32:44

have been walking on top of him because that's

32:46

how close they were to finding

32:49

him and how close he was to his bicycle.

32:53

While Tim's family worries about the potential evidence

32:55

that may have been lost in the early stages of the

32:57

investigation,

32:59

what's become even more concerning is the

33:01

feeling that not much has changed with Tim's case

33:03

over the past six years.

33:05

While there was an abundance of information shared in the beginning,

33:08

unfortunately,

33:10

communication with the El Paso County Sheriff's

33:12

Office stalled over time.

33:14

These days, Ariel says it's hard to even

33:16

get a reply,

33:17

but she tells me that they were able to get their hands on

33:19

the autopsy report some time ago.

33:22

However, they've decided to not release

33:24

the details until they can determine the best course

33:26

of action. We kept that

33:28

file closed because we wanted to

33:31

secure the investigation as much as we could

33:34

because we felt like so much of

33:36

what was found in the beginning

33:38

of his case had gotten tarnished. Because

33:41

it was in the legal area to shoot, there was a bunch of

33:44

bullet fragments. There was a bunch of different things

33:46

like that. So we were just trying to

33:48

preserve his case as best as we could and

33:51

try and keep whatever information

33:53

only the killer would know to try

33:55

and just protect him,

33:58

try and help him get his case solved.

34:01

It's actually been really tricky because

34:03

this has been passed around so many

34:05

times I actually don't know who's

34:07

in charge of his case now. Anytime

34:09

I do reach out to El Paso County,

34:11

I try and email them

34:13

with the last person that they said was in charge of his case

34:15

and I don't get emails back. So

34:18

I'm not even sure right now what's going

34:20

on with his case, which is really, really

34:22

frustrating and infuriating.

34:25

Other than they say it's still open and

34:27

they're hoping for new

34:29

evidence to come up. Ginger

34:32

and I both are kind of under this impression

34:35

that his case is in a dusty

34:37

file at the bottom of some boxes somewhere

34:40

and it's just forgotten about at this point in time.

34:44

This hopeless feeling is all too familiar

34:47

to families like Thames.

34:49

While investigations are actively pursued at

34:51

first,

34:52

leads taper,

34:53

time slips by,

34:55

and communication from law enforcement begins to

34:57

wane.

34:58

Ariel admits that her confidence in authorities

35:00

has started to waver over the last few years.

35:03

A big reason for that being that there appeared to

35:05

be so much happening in the first year or two

35:07

of the investigation. Of

35:10

course they found Tim, as well as several

35:12

of his belongings, and they determined his death

35:14

to be a homicide resulting from a .22 caliber

35:17

gunshot wound.

35:18

But probably the biggest cause for optimism

35:21

in the early parts of the investigation was

35:23

that authorities quickly named a person

35:25

of interest.

35:26

So let's talk about that. According

35:32

to multiple news sources, when search

35:35

parties were out looking for Tim's body, a

35:37

red car with Indiana tags was

35:39

seen driving along Mount Herman Road, passing

35:42

by multiple times.

35:44

Police of course raised some eyebrows and was therefore

35:46

reported to authorities.

35:48

Then, a little over a week after

35:50

finding Tim's body, this same vehicle

35:52

was pulled over during a routine traffic stop

35:55

by the nearby Woodland Park Police Department,

35:57

roughly 20 miles from the crime scene.

36:00

The owner of the vehicle was a man named Daniel

36:02

Nations. At the time, he

36:05

was a 31-year-old convicted sex offender and

36:07

was considered a transient, living

36:09

in the area with his wife and two children.

36:12

Interestingly, Nations was at one

36:14

point considered a person of interest in the infamous

36:17

2017 double murder case out of Delphi, Indiana,

36:20

popularly known as the Delphi Murders.

36:22

Nations was later cleared as a person of interest

36:24

in that case and at some point had

36:27

moved from Indiana to Colorado, failing

36:29

to ever register as new residents.

36:32

As the El Paso County Sheriff's Office continued

36:34

to investigate Nations as a person of interest

36:36

in Tim's case, it was revealed that

36:38

he had been arrested just weeks earlier in

36:40

August for an unrelated incident that

36:43

occurred around the same area.

36:45

According to the arrest affidavit,

36:47

Nations accosted and threatened a passing dirt

36:49

biker with a hatchet

36:50

at his campsite on Mount Herman Road

36:53

after placing logs in the road that forced the rider

36:55

to stop.

36:56

Later, a search of Nations' vehicle

36:58

would reveal a hatchet

37:00

and a .22 caliber rifle,

37:02

the same caliber said to have killed Tim Watkins,

37:05

a discovery that warranted an additional charge

37:08

of possession of a firearm by a convicted

37:10

felon.

37:11

Nations pleaded guilty to the menacing and

37:13

weapons charges in which he received three

37:15

years of probation. Just a short

37:17

time later, he returned to Indiana,

37:20

where he'd lived previously, to face an additional

37:22

charge of failing to register as a sex offender.

37:26

But more reports of Nations' disturbing and

37:28

dangerous behavior around the Mount Herman area

37:30

would be revealed over time.

37:32

According to Outside, a popular outdoor

37:34

magazine and news site,

37:36

Detective Jason Darby Shower of the

37:38

El Paso County Sheriff's Office stated

37:40

that Nations had acted aggressively during

37:42

a road rage incident and monument

37:44

around the same time.

37:46

Darby Shower said that Nations got out of his vehicle,

37:49

confronted another driver, and ended

37:51

up kicking and breaking their windshield,

37:53

an incident that he claims escalated

37:55

very quickly.

37:57

But as more information was revealed about Daniel Nations,

37:59

and his history of crime,

38:01

all Tim's family wanted to know was

38:03

whether or not he had anything to do with Tim's

38:05

death.

38:07

As I mentioned previously, the caliber

38:09

rifle that Nations was found in possession of matched

38:11

the caliber that killed Tim. Ballistics

38:14

testing was conducted, but according

38:16

to reports, the El Paso County Sheriff's

38:18

Office stated,

38:19

they were unable to link Nations and his

38:21

DNA forensically to Tim's case, and

38:24

that the rounds recovered from Tim's body were

38:26

so damaged that they could not identify

38:29

the specific weapon used to fire the rounds.

38:32

While the El Paso County Sheriff's Office questioned

38:34

Nations about his potential involvement in Tim's

38:36

murder,

38:37

he has never been charged in connection to it,

38:40

nor has he ever been named a suspect.

38:43

But to this day, Ariel and the

38:45

rest of Tim's family can't help but speculate

38:47

over all the striking similarities. He

38:51

was found in

38:54

the crime area,

38:55

had the same caliber of weapon,

38:57

and had a pretty lengthy

39:00

criminal history. And there was a bunch

39:02

of coincidences with him that

39:05

it felt like, oh, there's

39:07

no way that it's not this person.

39:11

It felt like there was things

39:13

in motion that were coming up, and they were just

39:15

trying to gather evidence

39:17

to prove that it was this person. And

39:21

then everything came up inconclusive,

39:24

like the bullets from the gun were

39:26

inconclusive.

39:28

They said that Daniel Nation's wife

39:30

had been cooperating with the police and that they didn't

39:33

find anything that she was saying

39:35

to find him guilty or

39:37

anything like that. She showed

39:40

them like where they were staying and was

39:43

not interfering with the investigation

39:45

that she was trying to help as much as possible.

39:48

But how much honesty

39:50

was into that? I don't know. Nothing

39:53

was being discovered that proved

39:56

that they were the people that did that. So

39:58

it was really frustrating.

40:02

Eventually, Daniel Nations did

40:04

an interview with the Gazette in a report

40:06

last updated in 2020. He

40:09

discussed his past convictions as well as

40:11

the crimes he'd been accused of publicly but

40:13

claims innocence in, such as Tim's case

40:15

and the Delphi case. Nations

40:18

told the Gazette, quote,

40:19

I'm not what they made me out to be.

40:21

I feel like a victim in this situation.

40:24

According to the report, Nations claimed that the

40:26

speculation has ruined his name and

40:28

his marriage,

40:29

he fears losing rights to see his children,

40:32

and he's living homeless to avoid retaliation

40:34

after he was recognized at a local shelter.

40:37

Nations admitted to legally having access

40:39

to a weapon in his vehicle after he and

40:42

his now estranged wife were stopped by

40:44

Woodland Park Police on September 25 for

40:46

driving with a broken tail light.

40:48

He even admitted diminishing recreators

40:50

in the Mount Herman area with a real or simulated

40:53

weapon,

40:53

before adding, quote, I

40:55

just want people to know the truth,

40:57

that I'm not a monster. So

41:00

what if I've made mistakes?

41:01

I'm a good person.

41:03

I'm a good father.

41:05

The question surrounding the only known person

41:07

of interest in Tim's case has left

41:09

his family scratching their heads over who

41:12

could have been responsible for this heinous

41:14

crime.

41:16

I also don't want to like,

41:18

say like, oh yeah, it had to be this one

41:20

person, but I just find it so interesting

41:22

that our persons of interest has never formulated

41:25

into anything. And there's been nothing

41:28

else that's come up since this person

41:30

was brought into the spotlight.

41:33

I think as a family, we're assuming it

41:35

had to be someone that was either new to the

41:37

area or transient or was the

41:39

other theory I have was that it was kids

41:42

illegally shooting got scared.

41:44

That's the only other thing that I can think of

41:46

that

41:48

would add up to this and have it be taking

41:51

so long to come up with any kind

41:53

of theory. I feel like

41:55

it wasn't just one person

41:58

just because of what happened with my

42:00

dad and his body being buried and things

42:03

like that. It would have had to take at least like

42:05

two people, I think, to move him in my

42:07

mind. So I don't feel like

42:10

it was done alone, but

42:12

that's my theory.

42:16

As the years pass by, with no new

42:18

information provided,

42:20

it continues to wear on Ariel and her family.

42:23

They want Tim's case solved more than anything,

42:26

but it's been a challenge to sit idly by

42:28

and let the investigation run its course when

42:30

they feel it's been for the most part unreliable.

42:34

The whole thing has become more of a trust exercise

42:36

at this point.

42:38

I want to keep his case safe,

42:41

and that was suggested to us by

42:43

the police to keep those records sealed

42:45

so that way

42:46

when new evidence came up that it would

42:50

be something that only policed knew

42:52

the information of, essentially.

42:54

And at

42:57

first I was really like, okay,

42:59

that sounds like a great idea, but now as time's going

43:01

on, I'm wondering like if

43:03

the potential to release this information

43:06

will actually be more helpful than

43:08

hurt the case. And it's just trying to decide

43:11

what will actually be the right

43:13

call on that because we

43:16

want justice. He deserves it. It

43:20

kills me knowing that whoever

43:22

did this, even

43:24

if they may not be living a free life, they're

43:27

not facing any consequences of

43:29

what they did.

43:31

And taking my

43:33

dad's life was

43:35

the worst thing that's ever happened to

43:37

me. He was so important

43:40

to me, and he was going to be such an important

43:42

piece, I felt like in the continuation

43:45

of my life with my daughter and to be robbed

43:47

of that and have no one to be held accountable

43:49

for it is

43:51

bullshit. Now

43:54

as time's passing on, it's like how much of this

43:56

are we just being left in the dark? Or I think in

43:58

some ways they just hope we're not.

43:59

forget about it and that is

44:02

not going to happen in any way shape

44:04

or form. Amongst

44:08

the frustration and disbelief over her

44:10

dad's unsolved murder, Ariel

44:12

tries to maintain a realistic perspective.

44:15

She knows that solving crimes and death investigations

44:17

in particular can be difficult

44:19

and take a lot of time.

44:21

She empathizes with countless other families

44:23

who find themselves in a similar position,

44:26

knowing Tims is just one of many unsolved

44:28

cases out there.

44:29

But she's never lost hope that at some point

44:32

something's going to give.

44:34

Whether it's through unsealing his case or

44:36

someone coming forward with new information,

44:38

something has to give.

44:40

Tim was far too good of a person and meant

44:42

too much to his family for this to be the

44:44

end of his story. Back at her

44:46

home in Crested Butte,

44:48

they continue to keep his memory alive in

44:50

hopes of one day receiving justice and

44:52

resolution.

44:54

We talk about him pretty much every day.

44:56

Allora decided to call him flip-flop

44:59

because he didn't want to be grandpa. So whenever

45:00

we see a hawk, we

45:02

always go, there's flip-flop, he's watching

45:05

us. Whenever we

45:07

go on a family bike ride, Allora,

45:09

my daughter, will always say like, I

45:11

can feel flip-flop riding with us right

45:13

now, like he's here with us too.

45:16

We have pictures up of him all over my

45:18

house. I

45:21

still have his ashes and I'm trying to

45:23

figure out

45:24

like a tree or something like that that we

45:26

can plant in his honor. And we're trying to find a sacred

45:29

place that we can plant it.

45:31

We have had memorial

45:35

signs put up for him for trails in the

45:37

Mount Hermonaria.

45:39

Every time I get on a bike, I can

45:41

feel him with me. He's

45:44

in every aspect of my life.

45:47

He's tattooed on my shoulder here

45:49

on his little penny bike.

45:52

So like he's with

45:55

me. I

45:57

just miss him a lot. There's

45:59

so many days. that I

46:01

just, I

46:03

wonder what it would be like if he was still here. I

46:07

wonder how you would feel about seeing

46:10

his grandbaby riding her bike and

46:12

like how quickly she took to it.

46:15

It's

46:19

just hard to miss someone with

46:21

your whole heart

46:24

and feel like there

46:26

was no reason for it. And

46:30

I think that's the thing is like just trying to

46:32

live with this Timmy sized

46:35

hole in my heart

46:40

and learning to fill it with good things.

46:44

Things that he would want me to be doing and not

46:46

letting what

46:48

this person did rob me of

46:50

my freedom and

46:53

not let this tragedy

46:56

take over our lives.

47:00

After all this time, Ariel's resolve

47:02

has not wavered.

47:06

While she fights to keep Tim's memory

47:08

alive, she knows that solving his murder is a real possibility

47:11

if the right people come forward. In

47:14

closing, Ariel had

47:16

a message she

47:17

wanted to share.

47:21

The weight of your actions

47:23

affected so much more than

47:26

you realize. You didn't

47:28

just take a person away from

47:31

me. You took a father,

47:33

a grandfather. You took away

47:36

memories. You took away things that I didn't

47:38

get to experience that

47:40

I was still so looking forward

47:43

to sharing with my father.

47:44

My

47:46

dad never got to walk me down the aisle. My

47:49

dad never got to be there for my wedding

47:51

day. They

47:54

took me to the house. They

47:57

took my memories that I was gonna

47:59

make.

47:59

them away.

48:03

They took my rock and

48:05

they took my best

48:08

friend and

48:13

they deserve whatever

48:16

justice is coming their way.

48:26

I'm Sergeant Kurt Smith with the El Paso County

48:28

Sheriff's Office Investigations Division. In 2022, around

48:31

the five-year anniversary of Tim's death, the

48:35

El Paso County Sheriff's Office shared

48:38

a post on social media asking for

48:40

information from the public. It's

48:42

hard to say if anything new has come from their request,

48:46

so on their behalf I'd like to echo the same message.

48:49

If you have any information about the death

48:51

of Tim Watkins, please contact

48:54

the El Paso County Sheriff's Office

48:56

at 719-520-7777. Thanks for listening.

49:18

Culpable Case Review is a production

49:20

of Resonate Originals and Tenderfoot TV

49:23

in partnership with Odyssey, written

49:26

and hosted by me, Dennis Cooper.

49:29

Executive producers are myself, Mark

49:31

Minnery, Jacob Bozarth, Donald

49:34

Albright, and Payne Lindsey. Our

49:36

senior producer is John Street. Additional

49:40

production from Jamie Albright and

49:42

Taylor Floyd. Editing,

49:44

mixing, mastering, and sound design by

49:47

Dayton Cole, Pat Kicklider,

49:48

and Adam Townsell of the Resonate

49:51

Recordings team. If you have a podcast

49:53

or are looking to start one, check us out

49:56

at resonaterecordings.com. Our

49:59

theme song and original...

49:59

Our original score is by Dirt Poor Robbins,

50:02

with additional scoring by Dayton Cole. Our

50:05

cover art is by Drew Bardana. Sources

50:08

for this episode include Outside Magazine,

50:11

The Gazette, and KKTV. You

50:14

can follow us on social media, at Culpable

50:17

Podcast. Additional content

50:19

can be found on our website, culpablepodcast.com.

50:23

If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to subscribe,

50:26

rate, and review. Your feedback

50:28

is greatly appreciated. Thanks

50:30

again for listening. Be sure to tune in

50:32

next week, when we return with an all

50:34

new case.

50:36

Till next time.

50:55

Hey, culpable listeners. This is Dennis Cooper.

50:57

I want to give you a sneak peek of a new Tenderfoot

51:00

TV podcast called Dear Alana.

51:03

It's about a young woman who disappeared from Boulder,

51:05

Colorado in 2019. She

51:08

left behind two dozen journals, chronicling

51:10

her love for the outdoors, ultimate

51:12

frisbee,

51:13

and a dream of becoming a nun. She

51:16

also kept a secret, one that put

51:18

her dream at risk. At 14

51:21

years old, Alana confessed to her

51:23

priest that she was attracted to women, and

51:25

she was instructed not to tell her parents.

51:29

Over the next seven years, Alana covertly

51:31

received conversion therapy, which her family

51:33

believes played a role in her

51:35

fate. Host Simon Kent

51:37

Fung explores Alana's life and

51:39

the parallels with his own life experiences.

51:42

Simon also underwent conversion therapy for

51:44

nearly a decade in his efforts to become a priest.

51:48

He is

51:48

compelled to uncover the truth of

51:50

what really happened to Alana,

51:52

and finally face what happened to him. Dear

51:55

Alana is available now. Check

51:58

out this sneak peek. When

52:04

Alana Chen disappeared, her family

52:06

was left searching for answers. What

52:08

they found was 10 years of her journals,

52:11

filled with secrets, tearing her apart.

52:13

He

52:13

forgave my unspeakable sin. He

52:15

took my defilement and buried it. And

52:17

a controversy that's divided her community.

52:20

Her daughter first opened up to a priest when

52:22

she was just 14 years old. However,

52:25

the church denies any conversion therapy

52:27

was done.

52:28

A new podcast available now. This

52:31

is Dear Alana. Listen for free

52:33

on Apple Podcasts.