0:00

Hey, everyone. I wanna give you a quick warning

0:02

disclaimer. The third part of

0:04

our conversation with Will Spencer, we are gonna

0:06

be playing some clips. that

0:08

contain explicit language, drug

0:11

use, some very disturbing

0:14

references. So if you have

0:16

little ones around I would

0:18

highly encourage you to wait

0:21

until you are not around anyone else to listen

0:23

to this episode. Again, it contains explicit

0:26

language. we felt it necessary to

0:28

not to edit this out. So you can feel

0:30

the real weight and the gravitas of

0:32

our discussion surrounding psychedelics,

0:35

Ayahuasca, the dangers, the spiritual dangers

0:37

of that. Hope you all enjoy the conversation, the

0:39

third part with a Will Spencer.

0:45

My name is Eddie,

0:46

and I

0:49

was in a call. Planet Earth

0:51

about to be recycled. Your

0:54

only chance to survive

0:56

or evacuate is to

0:58

leave with us. Targeted

1:01

as an effort by a charismatic creature

1:03

to build a new society, but it ended,

1:05

of course, with the tragic deaths of more than nine

1:07

hundred people.

1:08

please, or God sakes us to get on with

1:10

it. We've lived. There's no other

1:12

people who've lived and loved

1:14

it. We've had as much of well as you're

1:16

gonna get. Let's just be done with it.

1:18

Let's be done with the agony of it. This

1:20

is the revolutionary suicide. This

1:22

is not a stuff destructive suicide.

1:24

So they'll pay for this. They want it

1:26

to run us. You're

1:31

an adult. I

1:32

love you and I want you out of it

1:34

and with Christ. But you you

1:36

you

1:43

Alright.

1:43

Welcome back. Ladies and gentlemen, to part three.

1:46

I can't believe we meet didn't wasn't expecting

1:48

to do part three, but here we are.

1:50

We are back with Will Spencer.

1:53

Good to have you back then. Good to be back. Thanks. Good.

1:55

And I am once again riding solo.

1:58

And Andrew is currently doing some super sleuthing

2:01

up on seventh of Adventism. So depending

2:04

on when this drops versus that drops

2:06

just so you know, sometimes things intersect

2:09

depending on release them. Alright. So that

2:11

being said, this is part three of

2:13

our conversation. We are gonna be focusing

2:15

here on this episode. Kind of

2:18

talking about sort of the cultural

2:20

zeitgeist. We're gonna be doing some analyzing

2:23

of what we're seeing in the culture right now that's

2:25

very congruent with

2:28

your testimony, what you came out of. Like,

2:30

what your what you came out of, what you got

2:32

delivered from is now being

2:35

normalized on an unprecedented scale.

2:37

Yes. So we're gonna be analyzing

2:40

a podcast by selling by

2:42

the name of Aubrey Marcus. and

2:44

he is this is podcast where he's talking

2:46

with Aaron Rogers. He is

2:48

the MVP multiple times,

2:50

Super Bowl champion quarterback. of

2:53

the Green Bay packers. And yeah.

2:56

So just real quickly explain for anyone

2:58

who doesn't know who explain who Aubrey Marcus

3:00

is. Aubrey Marcus is the

3:02

founder of a popular supplements

3:04

and fitness company called Onit. So

3:06

we're drinking some of the supplements or the brain.

3:09

fans of the products. Kettlebell's big fitness,

3:11

you know, guy connected very closely

3:13

to Joe Rogen, who I think everyone probably

3:16

knows, massively popular worldwide

3:18

podcast host. and he's big

3:20

into all of this eastern mysticism, New

3:22

Age, kind of spirituality. And and

3:24

he talks very openly about it and hosts many

3:27

Many different guests on his podcast were

3:30

authors and, you know, various participants in

3:32

this world. And recently, he did an excuse

3:34

me, did an interview with Aaron Rogers,

3:36

the Super Bowl MVP. So we'll win a quarterback

3:39

and who also now participates in

3:41

this world. And I listened to this podcast

3:43

and took some notes on it as some things

3:45

that they're talking about that I think are are worthy

3:47

of worthy of pointing out. Yeah. And then, in fact,

3:50

Aubrey Marcus was in his Instagram

3:52

he had posted some highlights of him. He was

3:54

at Burning Man as well too. Oh, okay. believe

3:56

it. So, I mean, I mean, I mean, imagine my shot.

3:58

Core CD, they're given everything that we talked

4:01

about. So, yeah, let's go let's just go ahead and

4:03

jump into that. I listened to a good majority of

4:05

the podcast this morning. There are already things

4:07

that just popped up that are just world

4:09

view. Yeah. You know, you become familiar with

4:12

the original. You can kinda detect the

4:14

counterfeit. Let's go what's

4:16

the first clip that you observed with Aaron

4:18

Rogers talking with Aubrey Marcus and then we'll

4:20

break it down? Yeah. Before we started, I just

4:22

wanna say one thing. Like, I have massive respect

4:24

for both these guys. what they've accomplished personally

4:27

and professionally. Like, it's no joke to get

4:29

a Super Bowl MVP. And so, you know, multiple

4:31

seasons, and it's no joke to start and grow

4:33

a company in a in a podcast like that. what

4:35

both of these men have accomplished, we'll

4:37

say, physically, financially, materially, let's

4:40

say, you know, obviously worthy of respect

4:42

and to see their friendship and their connection very

4:44

sincere and open and generous is is also

4:46

really wonderful. And all those things

4:48

can be true and they can still be wrong

4:50

about some aspects of reality if but be asking

4:53

the right questions and moving in the right direction. Oh, yeah. For

4:55

sure. And like I said, we're we're taking Alpha

4:58

Brain Right. -- which is a product of on it,

5:00

which is I don't I don't think maybe

5:02

he did he depart from the company? I can't remember.

5:04

I think he probably sold it. I think he sold the company.

5:06

Yeah. So but he was very directly

5:08

involved. And I I actually found out about him

5:11

by way of on it. And even he would you

5:13

would image God in the sense that he's

5:15

creating products, services --

5:17

Yeah. -- that people consume that

5:19

people enjoy. They actually help benefit people.

5:22

So even he's vicariously emulating

5:25

what it means to be in the image of God to love one's

5:27

neighbor by way of how he is really

5:29

using a system of economics that cause that

5:31

comes from Christian worldview. Yeah. You

5:33

know, like a province that's people who curse those that back

5:36

the grain, but there's a blessing on the head of him who sells

5:38

it. So he's doing it something on some level that is

5:40

gone honoring -- Mhmm. -- in a sense of selling products and

5:42

services. Aaron Rogers, like I said,

5:44

he is very gifted. He's talented.

5:47

He's using the body that God made him

5:49

to be able to really perform on the on

5:51

a very high level. highest level. He just

5:53

doesn't give the glory to God -- Right.

5:56

-- which is really part of the whole to

5:58

a one is in WorldView -- Yes. -- worshiping the

6:00

creation rather than the creator. Yes. And I

6:03

think they're both very sincere in their search

6:05

for truth as I was. Right. And I think a lot of people

6:07

find their way into this world. lot of men and women

6:09

look look into this world with very sincere

6:11

and very good intentions for personal transformation

6:13

and and they go looking for truth. And it's

6:15

not so much that they get into it. It's that

6:18

they fail to leave it. It's it's a

6:20

it's a stop on the journey, and it and it becomes

6:22

this to this totalizing worldview that

6:24

needs to be escaped for reasons that I think we're gonna

6:26

talk about. And as we jump in again, we're not we're

6:29

this is not we're not attacking them personally. Oh,

6:31

yes. This is not this is not about their

6:33

character. We're just looking at this

6:35

is their worldview. What are they saying? And then

6:37

we are going to critique it. one by scripture,

6:39

but also challenge and look at it,

6:42

how do we respond as Christians through

6:44

a one at they're viewing it through one ism. Mhmm.

6:47

We're viewing it through two ism. So I'm really excited

6:49

to see where we go with this. Yeah. Absolutely. Hey,

6:51

what's up over one? Have you ever wanted to

6:53

get behind the microphone and chat

6:55

with myself and Andrew the Super Sloot of the

6:57

show here at cultish? Well, guess what?

6:59

You get to do exactly that this

7:02

October October twenty seventh through the twenty

7:04

ninth. Reform on October twenty seventh

7:06

through the twenty ninth, you get a chance to meet

7:09

Andrew and I. A bunch of awesome speakers

7:11

is a great lineup, including myself. and

7:13

enter the Superstooth of the show, so check that

7:15

out. And can't wait to meet you all there and have

7:17

a great conversation. Now back to the episode. Alright.

7:20

We got So this first clip, Aubrey

7:22

Marcus is talking about his his

7:24

first Ayahuasca experience, the

7:27

first one ever, which think might be the first time he talks

7:29

about it on air. And he says he says some things that

7:31

I think are worthy of pointing out. So I'll just go

7:33

ahead. This is the bar where talks about the tree. When

7:35

he slide down the tree, he slide down the tree. Yeah. Just

7:38

so you know too, this Oh, yeah. What he does talk

7:40

about is a bit graphics graphics.

7:42

And then because this this is this is

7:44

also indicative of the crazy

7:47

nature of Ayahuasca

7:49

Trips. So again, if you have little ones in the room

7:51

or if you have people with sensitive ears, just be

7:53

wary that you might wanna pause

7:55

it and maybe view it at

7:57

another time. So just be aware of that as

7:59

we as we play this clip. Yeah. The the imagery he

8:01

uses is graphic, the language, maybe a little

8:04

bit, but not so much. Yeah. Okay. So so, yeah, we'll go

8:06

ahead and play this right now. Yep.

8:09

One

8:09

person's path is not another person's

8:11

path. There is not a one size fits all

8:13

medicine, as he said. So with

8:15

that being said. For me,

8:18

I

8:18

mean, the

8:19

did I ever tell you

8:21

properly the first the first story

8:23

of me doing Iowa, Oscar? I'll

8:26

tell it I'll tell it quickly. So

8:28

I'm with Maestro Orlando, El

8:30

Dragon de La Silva, who you know, and we'll get

8:32

to that story because we shared an Ayahuasca journey.

8:34

this year as well, which was unbelievably powerful

8:37

with my store land of my very first shaman.

8:40

We go in this this small hut and there's

8:42

no co facilitators or anybody

8:44

who speaks English. It's just

8:46

Orlando. And then we're

8:48

in, like, the in the deep jungle, Orlando,

8:51

and then there's, like, ten other people. because

8:53

there was a bunch of different there's three different shamans they could

8:55

choose from, and they basically said about Orlando.

8:58

This is the dragon. It's the most intense

9:00

medicine.

9:01

and And you

9:02

know, if you wanna go there, just be mindful.

9:04

It's gonna be fucking gnarly. And it's like

9:06

only like ten people out of the sixty that were there

9:09

at the retreat showed up for him. So we just like

9:11

me love dragons. I love dragons. I love the dragons

9:13

from the start. It's like my whole life. What's leading

9:15

me? It's like a dragon guy. Easy

9:17

choice. We go there.

9:20

And it

9:21

was the most harrowing experience.

9:24

Well, not that I've had plenty of harrowing experiences

9:26

since. but it brought me through

9:29

every possible way that

9:31

I could die. First of all, there

9:33

was bugs crawling into my eyes.

9:35

crawling in my eyes laying eggs and exploding

9:38

out my eyeballs, eating my eyes

9:40

and exploding out my eyeballs and brain.

9:42

And I was like, I mean, I've done enough psychedelics

9:44

to be in the witness and allow perspective,

9:47

like, alright. Alright. Just witnessing. I'm I'm

9:49

watching a horror movie where I'm the fucking victim

9:51

here. I'm just gonna watch it though. I don't know why

9:53

this is uncomfortable, but I'm gonna watch it, you know.

9:56

And then there was eels that started They

9:58

did this thing. They had like They

10:00

had like a mouth with teeth and they like burrowed

10:02

into my sides, into my ribs, and

10:04

into my belly, and started eating my organs from

10:06

the inside out. like spinning spinning

10:09

spinning around so they're like a saw, like

10:11

a circular saw that was like trying to

10:13

extract the tube. and

10:15

they're eat going inside and just going wild,

10:17

like eating all of my organs. I was like, that's

10:19

fucking horrific. And I was like, alright. I'm

10:21

I'm cool with that. Like, I can handle that.

10:24

And then the worst one was, well,

10:26

not the worst, the second worst one. I

10:28

was naked, fully naked, and

10:30

I was bear hugging like I was climbing

10:32

a palm tree, you know. except it was filled

10:34

with thorns. It was one of the thorns, like,

10:37

that they have the spikes, the better off days, the spikes

10:39

in the in the Amazon. and I was

10:41

sliding down at like a fireman pole

10:44

naked and the and the spikes

10:46

were just ripping up my genitals. like,

10:49

ripping me from, like, asshole, the belly

10:51

button just spikes, like, coming through. And

10:53

I'm, like, that's fucking rude. And

10:55

that wasn't the worst. That wasn't the worst.

10:57

And then it was like and because my uncle

11:00

had a lymphoma. So

11:02

cancer was like present and it was like,

11:04

okay, you've passed those tests, but

11:07

Sorry to tell you you got cancer and

11:09

you're gonna die. And I was like, no.

11:11

That's what got me. I was like, no way. No way.

11:13

I started feeling my go hands and I was like, Fucking

11:16

no way. No way like can't. I resisted it.

11:18

Resisted it. And right in that point

11:20

of resistance, the woman next

11:22

to me, she PUKS,

11:24

not in her bucket, but on my feet,

11:27

right off right off my feet.

11:29

So I was on my socks and on the mat, and

11:31

everything, I was like, you got fucking kidding

11:33

me here. So I'm like doing that, dealing with this

11:36

revelation that Ayahuasca told me I had cancer.

11:38

I was like, this is fucking

11:39

this is brutal. And meanwhile Orlando

11:42

is just in the middle of the room sending this

11:44

spiral of white snakes up to

11:46

the up to the heavens like this just

11:48

big column of light and

11:50

energy just swirling. And I was

11:52

like, whoa. And then

11:55

the moment next to me gets stuck in a loop.

11:57

And in the loop she was in, she

11:59

keeps going.

12:00

I can't tell if I actually

12:03

shit my pants or I imagine I shit my

12:05

pants thirty minutes. straight.

12:07

I can't tell if I actually shit my

12:09

pants or imagine I shit my pants. And Orlando

12:12

didn't speak hardly any English. She's got

12:14

a little bit of English now. Not much.

12:16

Not much. He didn't understand anything.

12:19

So everybody's calling for help trying to explain to him

12:21

what's going on, and

12:22

he's like, oh, fuck it. So he just kept saying

12:25

he grows. So I'm just dealing with this.

12:27

And then finally, I was

12:29

like, fuck it. If I got cancer,

12:31

and that's my pet. and that's what I have

12:33

to deal with. So be it. And if

12:36

I die, so be it. Like, I even

12:38

then I knew that I'd lived a life

12:40

where I'd lived, like I'd loved, I'd lived

12:43

I'd fought, I'd cried, you know,

12:45

I'd lived as poet lived, and that was always

12:47

my moniker, the warrior poet. I'd lived with poet's

12:49

heart, which opens the heart and all

12:51

the feeling centers to feel. So

12:53

I was like, okay. And then it was just like,

12:55

you know, the scene where Ewa

12:58

wraps up you know, Jake in

13:00

all of those spindrels of light and

13:02

just pulls him down into the ground and I just

13:04

felt held by Gaia and

13:06

just like held and nesseled and when I

13:08

was, I was, like, you don't have cancer silly.

13:11

You're so healthy and we love you and you're

13:13

always held. I was, like, thank

13:16

you. But that that was

13:18

the first of those three journeys and I had crazy

13:21

visions of alien ships

13:23

beaming light under my tongue and another

13:25

flotilla of snakes like pulling pulling,

13:28

you know, pulling energy

13:30

out and then popped into

13:32

this other dimensional reality where I felt like

13:35

I could manipulate you

13:36

know, my own health and manipulate future

13:38

timelines, and I I went to go heal.

13:41

Real quickly, the one thing that

13:43

made me my hair styling in

13:46

as someone who's on the outside -- Mhmm.

13:48

-- looking in, who's never ingested

13:51

that this stuff. You identify with a

13:53

lot more. Yeah. The fact that he referred

13:55

to the very end Ayahuasca as

13:57

a person. Mhmm. Yeah.

14:00

Yeah. That that

14:02

stuck out to me. definitely if

14:04

there's a red flag emoticon

14:06

for sure. What what are your immediate thoughts

14:08

when you see this now? So you're in Christ

14:10

now. This was your world. You did this

14:13

back to back to back to back. Like, what

14:15

do you see in all this? It's

14:17

really hard to listen to that and

14:20

because that is that's

14:23

that's abuse. the If

14:27

if if a person, a actual

14:29

in body person, were to

14:31

sit where to

14:33

sit Aubrey Marcus down in the chair and

14:35

strap him down and hold him down, and

14:37

then level verbal

14:39

abuse at him. for, like, hours. because

14:42

he says this woman's talking about, you know, for

14:44

thirty minutes, she's caught in this loop. Right?

14:46

So then it took him through all the different ways that he

14:48

was gonna die. All these objectively horrific

14:50

terrifying ways. Right? Like,

14:52

this is this is, like, which would terrify

14:54

any any person. And I

14:56

look at that, and what it sounds to me is, this

14:59

the spirit was poking him

15:01

in different places till it could terrify him

15:04

and finally got him. And then when it's got

15:06

him hold down, berating him.

15:08

And then when he's finally terrified, it's like,

15:10

it's okay we love you. Right?

15:12

That's Stockholm syndrome. That's your

15:14

your your a captive. You're a captive of being

15:17

subject to all these horrible things.

15:19

And then when it's finally got you, it's

15:21

like, okay, okay, I'm scared, like and

15:23

then it's like, no, you're gonna be okay. And then

15:25

that release of affection, like, oh,

15:27

the abuser flipping things around

15:29

in a double blind, like, okay, then I love you.

15:32

That's that's classic abuse, classic Stockholm

15:34

syndrome. if some if a if a woman or a person

15:36

were to be doing that to him in person, he'd be

15:38

horrified at that. If a man were to do that to

15:40

a woman or anyone else, they'd be horrified at that. if

15:42

we were to see that in real life, but somehow in an Ayahuasca

15:45

trip, that's okay. Mhmm. That that's

15:47

alright. That you're stuck seeing these horrific

15:49

visions of your own death And when you finally

15:52

reach the point of most terror, that

15:54

it's like, you're gonna be fine. Mhmm.

15:56

Like, that's that's I listened to this and I

15:58

and I was and I was shocked. and I

16:00

was shocked. And that and that he's laughing it off.

16:02

And that's the thing is that experiences like this can

16:04

be laughed off until you see them for

16:06

what they are -- Mhmm. -- until you see it as

16:09

look back now and I can see the things that I went through

16:11

as, like, demonic persecution. And

16:15

and when you finally give in,

16:17

then you get then you get the good stuff. And

16:19

that's and then that that loyalty bond is formed

16:21

because you've released me from the torment. And that's in

16:23

hostage taking. That's Thalkem syndrome. No.

16:26

Isn't it also a lot of people? I

16:28

mean, he kinda mentions at the end that the byproduct

16:30

was not being afraid of death.

16:33

Mhmm. Mike Tyson has

16:35

been very outspoken of his use as well

16:37

too on psychedelics. And

16:40

now he has no fear of

16:42

death, like whatsoever. Mhmm.

16:45

But as a byproduct, he don't know Christ. Like,

16:47

I think about when it says in Hebrews that Christ has

16:49

delivered us like, from

16:51

the fear of death. Like, they're trying

16:53

to vicariously trying to find

16:56

freedom from the fear of death. through

16:58

this plant, like, through this ceremony --

17:00

Mhmm. -- like on some level. Mhmm. Yeah.

17:02

I mean, like, the the idea of

17:05

the idea of confronting your own mortality I

17:08

think is a I think it's a good thing for people to

17:10

do, and it definitely lets high achieving men

17:12

kind of push the edge. Right? Because some

17:14

aspect of ourselves always hold us hold us

17:16

back from doing the thing that we wanna do, whether

17:18

it be whether it be like skydiving.

17:20

Right? That's why people go skydiving to confront their

17:22

own mortality or not being afraid

17:24

to talk to a pretty girl at the bar at church

17:27

is a is a sense of fear of death and

17:29

overcoming your own fear of death and your own mortality

17:31

is a way to step forward in your life.

17:33

Right? To And again, this is the whole Ayahuasca

17:36

mentality about living your best life.

17:38

Right? So if you confront the material fear

17:40

of death, then you can achieve

17:43

higher in your own material life. And that's

17:45

the end of the discussion. But there's no and so

17:47

that it ignores the whole notion of an after

17:49

life that we should be afraid to

17:51

physically actually die because

17:54

we'll meet judgment. Now that idea of

17:56

judgment god's law sin is not

17:58

part of this new age world. And the only way

18:00

they do that is through oneism, but that's another conversation.

18:03

Yeah. So I know I wanna

18:05

just address something in elephant in room real quickly.

18:08

we just played this video

18:10

beginning to end unedited. Now

18:12

the while now that while while that might be troublesome

18:15

for some of you, I think what's important

18:17

to realize that what's the bigger

18:19

conversation, the bigger part of this, is that

18:21

this is the normalization this

18:24

is being normalized. This would have been

18:26

exclusive to tribes somewhere

18:29

in South America --

18:31

Mhmm. -- where just very

18:33

very minimal, like, out in the middle

18:35

of nowhere. Yeah. And now this is being

18:38

normalized. The this is somebody who's an NFL

18:40

court. They're gonna Aubrey Marcus is in

18:42

conversation with Aaron Rogers. He's the

18:44

MVP Super Bowl quarterback

18:47

for the Green Bay Packers. Mhmm. And

18:49

And now this conversation is

18:52

being talked about analyze on ESPN.

18:54

Mhmm. So I'm sorry, like, you can't avoid

18:57

this discussion. Yeah. and we have

18:59

to be able to analyze it and see

19:01

and realizing not only

19:03

do we need to have answers for it, but

19:06

there's gonna be a lot of people

19:08

who go into these Ayahuasca trips

19:10

are gonna experience horrific things

19:12

And we're gonna be there picking up the pieces.

19:15

Like anybody who's aspiring to be a pastor,

19:18

you're gonna be talking to people

19:20

who are dealing with legitimate

19:24

spiritual trauma from having to go through what

19:26

he's describing jokingly. Yeah. Yeah.

19:29

It's it's really it's

19:31

really real. And he's

19:33

he's he can laugh it off Right?

19:36

But people experience stuff like that all

19:38

the time that they can't just laugh

19:40

off. Right? In in in that And

19:43

you said something really important. You said that people

19:45

from the west are going down from from America

19:47

and from Europe are going down to South America

19:49

to participate in these indigenous practices. Yep.

19:51

that are usually that people from America usually

19:53

go down there to treat aspects of depression

19:56

and anxiety and fulfillment. Right? Western

19:58

particularly Western modern problems.

20:00

I actually asked at the retreat center I went

20:02

to what this is used for within these

20:04

tribal communities and they don't because they

20:07

don't deal with issues of personal fulfillment.

20:09

this is used for to heal, you know,

20:12

conflict between neighbors or what

20:14

the what the shamans are really interested in dealing

20:16

with is like demonic possession. That's the thing that

20:18

gets them really excited. They see all these westerners coming

20:20

down to talk about their modern western problems

20:22

of anxiety and depression. But down there, this is

20:24

used for, like, demonic possession stuff.

20:26

Like, it's not It's not a technology meant

20:28

for meant for fulfillment fulfillment. Like,

20:30

yeah, it can lead to personal reconciliation, which

20:33

they talk about in the same. but, like, it's

20:35

not it's not for what it's being used

20:37

for. Yeah. And just to listen

20:39

to this, like, on my own on that same retreat,

20:41

you know, I've seen pretty horrific things

20:43

on these journeys. Like, over the course of those seven

20:45

ceremonies, over twelve nights, I

20:47

saw, like, if we're talking about the world of spirit,

20:49

right, and the world of spirit is at least in

20:51

these visions was as complex as the world of

20:54

the world of animals. Like you see, amoebas

20:56

and then you see, like, caterpillars and fish

20:58

and insects. And right -- Yeah. -- this all the way up

21:00

the level is a complex to humans. I

21:02

saw in these journeys like levels

21:04

of complexity of dark creatures

21:07

that were feeding on energy. Yeah. Right?

21:09

So all the way from like an amoeba around like heat

21:11

vent because I'm just a source of energy up to

21:13

things that were, like, actively trying to pray on

21:15

me. And I had to keep myself they gave you

21:17

techniques to keep yourself cleanse with, like,

21:19

Agua de Florida, which is this, you know,

21:21

and then and then, like, Mapocho, Tobacco, and

21:24

techniques to keep herself energetically clean. But

21:26

those things are those things are real. to be

21:28

demonically persecuted in that world is real.

21:31

And so to hear that he's being

21:33

so persecuted and being shown all

21:35

these horrific aspects of his own

21:37

death, in being forced to experience

21:40

that terror. And then when the terror

21:42

is removed from him that I would call the

21:44

trauma bond, like -- Yeah. -- it's like,

21:46

that's bad. if we had that if we

21:48

heard that in any other context, we'd be horrified.

21:51

But in this, it's like a joke. It's like, no,

21:53

this is no joke. Yeah. This

21:55

episode is brought to you by Apologious Studios.

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will support the studio, which will allow

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cultures to be a possibility for you to enjoy

22:23

on a weekly basis. Now,

22:25

back to the episode. Well and as

22:27

well too, just as we jump on to the next clip, just

22:29

one less observation is that. When

22:31

you look at the medicine that

22:33

came out of the western world, like the last one

22:35

hundred years, a lot of that -- How about public medicine?

22:37

Yeah. A lot of us come from a Christian worldview.

22:40

And so when you see somebody like, even

22:42

for example, like Ram Paul,

22:45

who's also a doctor, like, he goes and he's

22:47

a cataract surgeon, like, he'll go do his

22:49

humanitarian trips and and all of a sudden

22:51

will help, you know, a hundred people in one

22:53

day because he's that good and that profession.

22:55

You see how Westernized medicine

22:58

leads the last one hundred years that comes from a Christian

23:00

worldview has blessed the entire world -- Mhmm.

23:02

-- when you see a lot of components of this

23:06

eastern components, people are now trying to

23:08

bring those things, like, into the western

23:10

world. And then you're seeing as a bioproduct, a

23:12

lot of These things as a consequence.

23:15

Right. Exactly. And this is this is the level

23:17

of discernment that needs to be shown because

23:19

there are benefits to holistic health practices.

23:21

Right. right, to to to recognizing that

23:24

the mind and the body, this agnostic idea is

23:26

false, so that the mind influences the body, and the body

23:28

influences the mind. And by healing the mind, you

23:30

can't heal the body. Those things are just true. They talk

23:32

about the placebo effect. That's a real thing.

23:34

But the problem is that what they bring along with

23:37

it -- Yeah. the caboose that's hitched onto this is

23:39

this oneist worldview. Right. Right.

23:41

And and so that a lot of people aren't able

23:43

to make that discernment. They throw out

23:45

all of Western Society and Western Medicine because

23:47

obviously it's become predatory on so many

23:49

people as we've as we've seen. But that

23:51

doesn't mean you throw out the entire Western philosophy

23:54

of you with it. Mhmm. And and and that conversation

23:56

needs to be had of, like, what things

23:58

of holistic medicine are true and

24:00

what things come bring what ideology

24:03

rides along with it that isn't being questioned.

24:05

Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely have

24:07

plenty of issues with the the medical

24:09

industrial company. Absolutely too. And that's all. Yeah. Yeah.

24:12

That could be a coldest episode to have itself. It

24:14

should be. Yeah. But then but even

24:16

also like, I'm about like, I'm

24:18

forty I'm forty one and I'm trying to think of

24:20

ways to make sure that

24:22

I'm healthy and long and have health and

24:24

longevity for as long as I possibly can.

24:26

And so, yeah, I wanna go to sprout.

24:29

I like to go sprouts or whole foods and but even

24:31

if you walk into those holistic places or,

24:33

like, natural grocers. Like, within

24:35

that, you will see ads and flyers

24:38

with some sort of meditation retreat

24:41

or something like a smaller magazine that

24:43

does. And even like the worldview, I was doing

24:45

healthy products, I mean, kombucha is kombucha.

24:47

Right. Like, but what I was drinking earlier

24:50

was might be showing up when the previous episodes,

24:52

it had, like, it had a lotus flower on it. Yeah. It had

24:54

the flower of life secret geometry symbol.

24:56

Yeah. Exactly. So it just that world views

24:58

there and you need to be aware of it for sure. That's right.

25:00

It permeates it permeates our the whole

25:02

natural health and natural healing world where,

25:05

like, I I did a series of stories on Instagram

25:07

where I just walked into Whole Foods. I just took a

25:09

bunch of pictures, like, you know, the greeting card section

25:11

because I was wanting to buy someone a birthday card. There's

25:13

Buddha. you know, there's there's

25:15

namaste, you know, namaste, and then

25:17

there was a a Native American Dreamcatcher

25:20

and at the checkout line. There's all these other

25:22

new age kind of magazines and what do you

25:24

what do you not see? Mhmm. You see you see Christ

25:27

nowhere in that world. It's completely discarded.

25:29

It's like -- Right. -- completely blind to it. This this

25:31

this fetishization of eastern mysticism

25:33

that began in the nineteen sixties, and

25:36

we just threw out any notion of Christ in

25:38

in in American culture. And so we're so saturated

25:40

in it. can't even see it anymore. But

25:42

once you see it, you see it everywhere.

25:45

Mhmm. Gotcha. Definitely. What what what clip

25:47

do we got next? So in this next clip.

25:49

Erin Rogers is talking about some of the positive

25:51

aspects of some

25:53

of the modalities that is participating

25:55

in. and then immediately goes into the ideology

25:58

that rides along with it. So you can hear these things back

25:59

to back. So in other words, you'll see that the world

26:02

view is completely inseparable

26:05

from what he is doing to

26:07

improve himself as an athlete, as

26:09

a for his perspective as a man as a person

26:11

as a man. Yeah. Yeah. You see it slide right into

26:13

it. Sounds good. Let's go.

26:28

The

26:29

permission slip to do the same.

26:31

Mhmm. And I

26:34

think that's part of the reason you came to

26:36

mind first, obviously, our connection, but

26:38

just

26:41

to see yourself as

26:44

flawed and still love yourself gives

26:47

us permission for everybody else to do the same.

26:49

and it's a vulnerability to

26:51

go into those emotional moments and

26:54

sit with the emotions too. I think as men,

26:56

it's so easy to compress them. I did it

26:58

most of my life. to repress

27:01

and compress them into the depths

27:03

of our being instead

27:06

of just sitting with them. Mhmm. what

27:08

does this feel like in my body?

27:12

To be alive is to feel all those emotions,

27:14

I think, not just the highest of

27:16

highs and the elation and the joy of,

27:18

you know, sports

27:21

or sex or relationship or

27:23

love or companionhip, friendship,

27:25

whatever it might be is to feel

27:27

the sadness and the regret and

27:30

frustration and the depth

27:33

of all those emotions is what it means to be

27:35

alive. And that's

27:38

a gift that you give, not just me

27:40

as a dear friend, but but

27:42

the people that are in your life and your sphere

27:45

of influence listen to your podcast. And

27:47

that's what we need as men. We need more men willing

27:50

to to be vulnerable. And that's

27:52

hopefully what I can continue to

27:54

take to my teammates and and

27:56

our supporters to open up opportunities to

27:58

have deep and meaningful conversations to connect,

28:01

to be vulnerable, to

28:03

not have to be on the

28:05

outside, you look like the machoist, the macho

28:07

dudes, and, uh-huh, you know, although

28:09

you're not gray on basketball court, like,

28:12

you know, hosting your workouts

28:14

online and on and everything.

28:16

But on the inside, you're deeply, highly

28:18

sent of vulnerable human

28:20

who fucking loves with the humongous heart.

28:23

And that's the modeling that we need, the

28:26

redefining of of the

28:28

masculine qualities calling in the divine

28:30

feminine to balance our lives out

28:33

and to raise up like you do so incredibly

28:35

well to raise up the women in your life

28:37

and to give them a platform to speak and

28:39

to lead and to set

28:41

the trajectory for the next generations.

28:44

And I think you know, that

28:46

someone loves you a lot. I I think

28:49

I just wanna just say that to you. Thank

28:51

you. Brother,

28:52

you know. Yeah.

28:54

I mean, I

28:57

what popped to the very end? I think you saw that I

28:59

kinda react to that part. Yeah. The divine

29:01

feminine Mhmm. -- that

29:03

is something that comes out

29:06

as a byproduct, and there it is. Yeah.

29:08

you have an emphasis too. I mean, your whole podcast

29:11

is about rediscovering masculine, giving

29:13

you where you are as a Christian. Mhmm. There

29:16

is a stark contrast between

29:18

the biblical worldview as far as

29:20

the roles between masculine and

29:22

feminine. That's a rat and also

29:25

when you just look at it, tourism.

29:27

It's a radical difference when it comes to

29:29

oneism. Mhmm. So maybe you could

29:32

maybe unpack or explain for anyone who

29:34

doesn't know, like, how does New Age

29:36

ideology like view the masculine feminine.

29:38

They view it through the lens of like duality. Maybe

29:41

could you help us translate what

29:43

he is saying I mean, some people might

29:45

be kinda hearing bits and pieces, but struggling to

29:47

put it all together. Mhmm. Like, maybe

29:49

a help do, like, Google translate as much

29:51

as you can. Yeah. So so

29:53

the New Age kind of healing world

29:56

conceives of the masculine and feminine

29:59

energies as needing

30:01

to come into balance within the individual.

30:04

Mhmm. Like as a as a man, you

30:06

need to raise up your divine feminine to come

30:08

into balance with your divine masculine. And

30:11

and as a woman, you need to bring your divine masculine

30:13

to rise up in in addition to your divine feminine.

30:16

and we also need to do that society

30:18

wide internationally. So, like, the world

30:20

has been dominated by the divine mask gun

30:22

for the past several thousand years, basically

30:24

since the start of you know, since

30:26

Abraham, essentially the start of the Abrahamic religions

30:28

is what they say. So now, we need to bring in the

30:30

divine feminine to balance it out. and

30:33

we need to return to a divine

30:35

feminine world. And you see the show

30:37

up in our culture with Hillary Clinton,

30:39

it's her turn. Right? Mhmm. And the forces

30:41

female is another example of that,

30:43

you know, where a lot of these ideas are beginning to

30:45

be made manifest in the So the forces female isn't

30:48

the futurist female? that's another one. The

30:50

402 Okay. Yeah. So when when the new

30:52

Star Wars series came out, the the it's

30:54

the sequel trilogy. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

30:56

With JJ Abrams and all that. Yeah. It's a whole It

30:58

was it was that bad. I forgot it was even made. Exactly.

31:00

That's probably great. That's so obvious. You get,

31:02

like, the men in black flashy things. Yeah. Flash. Okay.

31:04

So that so so what Kathleen Kennedy who

31:06

was who was think she was the CEO

31:09

of Lucasfilm or something like that when that happened.

31:11

She and her team were producing shirts that said

31:13

the force is female. Oh, I write that.

31:15

So it's all manifestation of the same divine

31:17

feminine rising kind of energy

31:20

that also comes up when you see talk about

31:22

mother earth. Right? That we need to save

31:24

Gaia or Mother Earth. You also see

31:26

it we saw it during COVID when they say

31:28

you're killing who -- She -- which he mentions that

31:30

too, by the way. Right. So yeah. So when you're

31:32

when during COVID, if you weren't wearing a mask, who

31:34

were you're killing? you were killing grandma.

31:36

Mhmm. Right? It shows up in only different ways. So

31:39

what he's talking about here at the end is bringing

31:41

up the divine feminine. Now there's a lot now

31:43

what made this interview really difficult

31:45

to listen to is that it's really complicated

31:47

because there are a lot of things that are going on in

31:49

that little short clip that are very

31:51

important. So I think it's important

31:54

that that men do learn to understand

31:56

their emotions. Right? Because a lot of men

31:58

especially high achieving men do do what

32:00

Aaron Rogers says, which is to suppress their emotions

32:02

as they have a very narrow range of emotions like joy

32:05

inhalation. They can't actually experience

32:07

grief, which If you check out the book,

32:09

iron John by Robert Bli, again, he's

32:11

he's not a Christian man, but he talks very openly

32:13

about about men's emotional experience

32:15

that the doorway to emotions from men as

32:18

grief, and a lot of men suppressed their grief.

32:20

So what he's talking about men coming into

32:22

reconciliation with their emotional nature is very

32:24

important. and what he's talking about men having

32:26

deep connections with each other that he's modeling with

32:28

Aubrey Marcus is very important. And you

32:30

you feel that the genuminess of that bond

32:33

that a lot of men don't feel with other men in their

32:35

isolation. But then on the very back

32:37

end of that, you hear what slips in. We need to

32:39

elevate the divine feminine. Right. you know, we

32:41

need to we need to that's where the I that's where the worldview

32:44

slips in, where it's like, no, we need to turn

32:46

to Sayyons to put women in charge. Right.

32:48

and these things need to be separate. Mhmm. That's my work.

32:50

Right. And but even just from I can see the

32:52

appeal because even from someone like initially

32:54

in Aaron Rogers, I mean, he wasn't always into But

32:56

when you look at sports medicine or even

32:59

sports psychology or sports performance, there's

33:01

a level when you're at the top of your game

33:03

and you throw an incomplete

33:06

pass. And you hear eighty thousand people

33:08

who are all wearing your jersey go,

33:10

oh, or then boo, but

33:12

all of a sudden, then you make a then you do a

33:14

completion, or you then you throw a touchdown two

33:16

plays later, and the whole crowds won't like,

33:20

how do you maintain

33:22

and not get carried away by the crowd. Like,

33:24

it feeds into your adrenaline. So, physically,

33:27

home gain the home team wins more

33:29

than the opposing team. And so

33:31

there is a level in maybe where he finds that appealing.

33:33

But again, he's now taken

33:37

this aspect of controlling your emotions with

33:39

now replacing, taking

33:41

a whole world that you're you're trying

33:43

to embrace the divine feminine. That's what kinda

33:45

caught my attention. Yeah. So a lot of

33:48

a lot of high achieving men they

33:50

get that way because they suppress emotion.

33:52

And one of the demands that's placed on men

33:54

and has been placed on men throughout history is

33:56

You're supposed to set your emotion aside because you

33:59

must be available to protect, provide,

34:01

and provide for women. And so your emotional

34:03

experience as a man is is not

34:05

important. And you see this, like, when when

34:07

when the spider, you're at home. Right? The spider

34:09

is up on the wall. Yeah. Right? Like, no one

34:11

cares about the emotional experience dad is having.

34:14

dad has to kill the spider. Mhmm. Or when you're in

34:16

bed and you hear something go bump in the night, it's

34:18

like, guess what? You're the one getting up and then you

34:20

might be scared, but you have to suppress your emotional experience

34:22

to go down and check out if there's a burglar. Or if you're

34:24

working, you're a deep sea diver, and you're terrified,

34:27

and you're doing this underwater welding, which is

34:29

the most dangerous job in the world, doesn't matter

34:31

if you're afraid you're supposed to set this aside. That's

34:33

the cultural expectation of masculinity that's

34:35

always been that way. Right? But now we live

34:37

in such comfortable age that there's

34:39

more space for men to begin expressing their emotions,

34:41

but they don't have fluency with it, so our culture

34:44

doesn't teach men that. And so the new

34:46

age world is really big on helping

34:48

men encounter that, which think is really important

34:50

because men being in touch with their emotions helps

34:53

them be better husbands, partners,

34:56

providers, fathers,

34:59

all these things are really important to to form an

35:01

integrated man. And so that's that's

35:03

the nature of my work and that's the journey that I went

35:05

on. The problem is when you start

35:07

valuing this this inner emotional

35:09

nature, which he calls a divine feminine, I don't

35:11

think emotions are by nature feminine. I think

35:13

I'm a man. I have emotions as a man. I will

35:16

always experience emotions as a man. But what

35:18

he says and what a lot people do is they've

35:20

overvalued the divine feminine and say what we need

35:22

is more emotion and more emotionality in

35:24

society, and we need to elevate men to teach

35:26

us that. And just don't think that's true.

35:29

And that's the ideology that comes with so

35:31

much of this. and you see it manifest in

35:33

burning man in other ways. Hey, everyone. We wanna

35:35

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you so much for supporting us. And

36:20

now back to the episode. I've

36:23

noticed real quickly and we've

36:25

we've just seen until we've got like twenty minutes

36:27

before we got to close out. This

36:30

is I've always noticed when it comes to in

36:33

the whole world, the new age, there

36:35

is a opponent just a component. It's

36:38

even stepping outside from these two. Mhmm.

36:40

Just men and gender who are involved,

36:43

they're effeminate. just in the way they

36:45

act, the way they compose themselves, and I'm not

36:47

trying to be disparaging. It's think

36:49

it's just an objective observation. Mhmm.

36:52

The women are

36:54

always trying to take on the alpha kind of like

36:56

masculine -- Yes. -- I am my own goddess

36:59

role, which is interesting because when

37:01

I have conversations with ex new age,

37:03

especially female ex new ages who've actually

37:05

been the majority of our guests. Yeah. As

37:07

soon as they're saved, they all

37:10

they wanna do is, like, be at

37:12

home. Yes. Be married, bake bread,

37:14

be a mom, have children, nurture

37:17

them, And it's like the quintessential opposite

37:19

of everything that you're looking for. And it's

37:21

like, whoa. And I was like, whoa.

37:23

What is this? pengulum like that because even

37:26

the even in the Christian world that's controversial

37:28

as far as -- Mhmm. -- complementarianism versus

37:30

egalitarianism, And while we're not a

37:32

podcast about that -- Mhmm. -- that just an

37:34

observation, especially on the

37:36

side of of women who get saved. they

37:39

swing way over here. Yeah. Like, what do think about

37:41

that? Well, I mean, the

37:43

the reason why that happens in the church

37:45

is that these feminist ideas of of

37:47

equality have traveled so

37:49

far in our culture to the point where like

37:51

men and women men and women are equal. They've taken

37:54

this notion of like legal and economic

37:56

equality into this whole dimension

37:58

of, like, we're identical, we're the same.

38:01

Equality is not sameness. Right?

38:03

And so that that's another part where the ideology

38:05

shows up. and what a lot of women discover

38:07

is that they haven't enjoyed being

38:10

the boss babe, that they haven't enjoyed

38:12

stepping up and bullying the men around them,

38:14

and the men themselves. This is why Christianity

38:17

is so important to my work as the men discover that they

38:19

haven't enjoyed being feminine and and

38:21

submissive and weak, and they wanna know

38:23

how can I actually authentically step into

38:26

masculinity and be reinforced by

38:28

that by my, we might say, feel my

38:30

my theology. and it just so happens

38:32

that the only faith in the world that I've

38:34

discovered that accurately models

38:37

proper and healthy relations

38:39

between men and women is in Christianity,

38:41

which is why women who discover Christianity

38:44

and and and come to Christ immediately go

38:46

into this feminine like I wanna be

38:48

mother and do what God designed me to do and and

38:50

and raise children to make a home. Mhmm. And men

38:52

who come into Christianity and they say, I wanna

38:54

provide for a woman and and and I wanna take

38:56

care of a home in in submission to

38:58

Christ. Right? And to and to lead home in a

39:00

godly way. It's a very natural thing,

39:03

but you don't find in this new age world, which is very

39:05

much all about balance. and here's

39:07

the trick. The trick is who

39:09

gets to determine when things are

39:11

actually balanced? The person

39:13

who gets to determine when things are balanced is the

39:15

woman. And if the woman gets determined when

39:17

things are finally balanced, she's the one who's ultimately

39:20

in charge. And that's the trick of this

39:22

world. Is that, like, who actually says if

39:25

if She's the one who finally says when things are balanced

39:27

enough. Ultimately, it's not a balanced balance.

39:29

It's about what woman being in charge. And you see it

39:31

right there. Yeah. What do we have for the

39:33

next clip? In this clip,

39:35

now my understanding is that Aaron Rogers comes

39:37

from a Christian background. Mhmm.

39:40

And and has since

39:43

He since adopted another theological worldview,

39:46

the new age that we've been talking about. In

39:48

this, he quotes scripture,

39:50

to reinforce the onest kind of

39:52

worldview, misquote scripture,

39:54

paraphrases, and sort of and

39:57

sort of interpret couple key events

39:59

in the new testament as meaning things that

40:01

they don't actually mean. Okay.

40:03

Let's play the clip.

40:05

It's cool. It's a note to recognize

40:07

the divine in you. As long as

40:09

you recognize the divine in everybody. that's

40:12

the key. Which is kind of what Jesus

40:14

was saying to Peter when

40:16

Jesus is talking to them, the

40:18

disciples about his imminent ascension

40:20

and and death and leaving the

40:24

community that he'd established Peter's,

40:27

you know, I'm paraphrasing. They say,

40:29

what are we gonna do when you're gone? Like, I wanna

40:31

do these things that you're doing. and

40:33

he basically says everything

40:36

you've seen me do and more

40:38

you're capable of. Mhmm. Now

40:41

the church we often try and set

40:43

that one aside. Anytime there's any

40:46

any you know conversation

40:48

around the ability to do miraculous

40:50

things to acknowledge

40:53

the divine living in us. I mean, the whole

40:55

tearing of the veil, old testament,

40:58

a new testament,

40:59

was a

41:01

a marker for us to go, oh,

41:03

we don't need to go through anybody anymore

41:05

to experience a divine. The divine is

41:07

in all of us. There's no

41:10

veil between us and divine. There's

41:12

no separation. It's the

41:14

divine living and us. And like

41:16

you said, an understanding

41:18

that it's not just in me and not in

41:20

you. Right. Not just in you. Right. It's in

41:22

all of us. And when you start thinking, The other

41:25

way, that's when the god complex comes on and

41:27

we start missing the entire -- There's nothing more

41:29

than gross in this life than people

41:31

who flex their spirituality.

41:34

as he flexes his spirituality. Yeah.

41:37

Yeah. Yeah. So just real quickly,

41:40

before I let you comment, just so you

41:42

can realize that what Aaron Rogers is talking

41:44

about this is the naturopathic

41:47

outcome pun intended -- Mhmm. -- of

41:50

this worldview by way of him

41:52

trying to to fulfillment in

41:54

his consumption of primarily Ayahuasca.

41:57

And now he's sort of tried to syncretize

42:00

his new age thinking using

42:02

the Bible to back that up. Right. What

42:04

do you what do you think about what he said? Yeah.

42:07

And and, you know, I I wanted to pick that

42:09

one because have a whole a whole,

42:12

you know, document full of clips that we

42:14

could have chosen from to go over. but I

42:16

wanted to choose that one because not

42:19

not to emphasize, you know, either Aaron

42:21

Rogers or Aubrey Marcus one more than the other,

42:23

but because I I think it's important because he

42:25

did he did mention scripture there. Yeah.

42:27

And and what he's what

42:29

he's saying there, which is what a lot of

42:31

New Age people say is, mischaracterizing

42:35

the teachings of Christ to fit it

42:37

into his worldview. You know,

42:39

and all these things and more you can do, like, yes,

42:41

you there'll be signs and wonders and mirror circles,

42:43

but all these things more. It's that's

42:45

not why Jesus came here. He didn't come

42:47

here to perform signs and and wonders. He came

42:49

here to die for our sins so that we could be in

42:51

reconciliation with god. Mhmm. Jesus

42:53

was god. He wasn't man who came down work

42:55

miracles and and gave us signs he

42:58

came to to die for all of us

43:00

in in ways that we couldn't do that no man could do

43:03

for ourselves. Mhmm. And so that in

43:05

the discussion of Christ consciousness or Christ being

43:07

an ascended mass master or whatever, that

43:10

dying for sin gets left out.

43:12

And that's the key point that when you accept

43:14

that, as I have when you accept that faith

43:16

in Christ that he died and was resurrected and died

43:18

for your sins, that's where real

43:21

peace with god comes from. And as long

43:23

as that message gets slid over

43:25

to he was just he was just a man who accepted

43:27

his divine consciousness and did all these wonders.

43:30

As long as that notion of dying for sin

43:32

gets left out. It can kind of reduce

43:34

the message of Christ to just another man who

43:36

has the divine in him, like, had the divine

43:38

of all in all of us and that's one ism versus

43:40

two ism versus the creator, condescended

43:43

into his own creation to bring us into

43:45

reconciliation with him, which is we are not

43:47

him and he is not us. We were separate

43:49

and he came down as man with the Hybostatic

43:52

Union and god as man at

43:54

at once brought us into reconciliation with him.

43:56

Yeah. And but even what's

43:58

so difficult to understand

44:01

is that Aaron Rogers in this

44:03

clip he's using

44:05

the veil being torn combined with the new and

44:08

the old the old and the new testament. And

44:11

what is So

44:13

obvious, at least if you

44:15

if you read holistically the

44:18

the entirety of the bible special in relation

44:20

to the old new covenant, the

44:22

veil being torn, the whole

44:24

the whole concept assumes tourism.

44:28

There is a gap. There's a gap between

44:31

the creator in the creation. Mhmm.

44:33

Every single thing that happened in the Old Testament,

44:35

when you look at all the different sacrifices they

44:37

represented sacrifices that

44:40

had to be taken to be able to and

44:42

you had a high priest who had to get like, go into

44:44

the holy holies on behalf of

44:46

God's God's covenant people and take on

44:48

the because because they were sinners. And

44:51

all that and you look at the new testament, the veil was

44:53

torn. Everything has to deal with

44:55

it. There's a gap between god and

44:58

man, and that came about

45:00

by the man Christ Jesus. Mhmm. There's a distinction.

45:02

There's reconciliation that made everything that's

45:04

made as tourism. And as

45:06

much as he wants to try and borrow

45:09

from the Christian worldview to kinda bring

45:11

his idea of one is in the somehow

45:14

it's about bringing the divine and all

45:16

of us. Mhmm. Look at the like, read

45:18

Leviticus. Like, read deuteronomy, when you look

45:20

at the sacrificial system, when you look at the book of

45:22

Hebrews, when talks about how crisis are great,

45:24

high priest, how it's impossible for the

45:26

blood of of bulls and goats to be able to

45:28

remove sins. Yeah. And what that whole

45:30

aspect of the covenant was all about It's

45:33

not about oneism. You can't find

45:35

it there. It just it would make everything

45:38

that happened with the veil

45:40

completely nonsensical. That's right. That's

45:42

right. To to to

45:46

accept that as the interpretation is to throw

45:48

out everything else that takes place around it, like

45:50

god coming down and giving the laws of Moses,

45:52

right, and the temple being set up in the in the wilderness

45:55

in particular way and treating the law

45:57

a particular way. Like, you have to take all that

45:59

with that's why the veil was there. And then

46:01

when the veil was torn like, yes, we can

46:03

connect directly with God through his presence

46:05

as Christ Jesus dying for our sins. Yeah.

46:07

And so you have to throw out all the things that

46:09

are with it to to to misuse, misinterpret,

46:12

misinterpreted symbolism, and and why

46:14

that was why that one stuck out for me is,

46:16

you know, Pastor Jeff gave the most

46:18

moving sermon about the veil was torn and

46:20

apology at last fall. And I was

46:22

I was in the pews that they hadn't yet become

46:24

a member I was in tears. I kept the

46:26

bulletin from that day because that was so

46:28

moving, especially for me coming from Jewish

46:30

background. You know, with the law, and

46:32

is to really understand to really get it in

46:35

my bones and in my blood, and especially

46:37

coming through the New Age world as well, like, yes,

46:39

we can now be one with God through Christ and

46:41

my own lineage as well. Mhmm. And so when

46:43

I heard that, it's like this was a personal piece

46:45

of my history to hear that that moment

46:48

represent and say, no, there's there's an even

46:50

more beautiful truth than that.

46:52

And that's the thing is that the New Age World

46:54

seems to paint this very beautiful moving picture

46:57

But the reality is Christianity is so much

46:59

more beautiful, so much more glorious, so

47:01

much more fulfilling -- Mhmm. -- so much

47:03

more fulfilling in the piece that I have now,

47:05

I've never been able I never found in any

47:08

other practices than the piece that I found

47:10

in reconciliation with God. And that was a really

47:12

really important moment, but not for the reasons that

47:14

he said it was. Yeah. And so I definitely

47:16

encourage I hope that you'll put that sermon in

47:18

the show notes. The veil was torn part two.

47:20

So that Yeah. So men can men and women can listen

47:23

to that and hear, like, no. This is what was actually going

47:25

on in that moment. So it's so profoundly

47:27

important. Yeah. And I think one of the

47:29

things too is that, I mean, there's

47:32

a thing that says, like, patriarchy is inevitable.

47:34

Think the world because God made it is inevitable.

47:37

And but also,

47:40

what you

47:41

talking about, like, having a mediator? No.

47:43

That's inevitable as well too. Absolutely.

47:46

While he is not necessarily trying

47:49

to say the crisis of media between god and

47:51

man. In in some sense, saying

47:53

there is no mediator. Why don't you say anymore? Well, he's

47:55

also sort of both of them are kinda looking

47:57

to Ayahuasca as

48:00

as their personal mediator to

48:02

have some sort of inner peace, which

48:04

is, again, one of the earlier clips where

48:06

Aubrey Marcus refers to Ayahuasca almost

48:09

gives personhood to it. Yes. It's not

48:11

just on personal drink. This is actually Iahuasca

48:14

talk to me. Yeah. So

48:16

you see, like, neutrality is a myth. Everyone has a

48:18

mediator -- Mhmm. -- to find peace. It's just

48:20

questions what medi are you going to

48:22

have. when I was talking to the young lady

48:25

this morning who was a rapey

48:27

practitioner, I was trying

48:29

to tell her that

48:31

everything like in Christ,

48:33

and now it's telling us, I've talked to

48:36

scores of people who have been in your boat.

48:38

Everything that you're, like,

48:40

in Christ is everything you

48:43

can find you're trying to find in Reekay.

48:46

Mhmm. Like, and and in shock or alignment and all that

48:48

sort of stuff because I said, I just told her, like, there's no

48:50

end in sight. Yeah. And she's looking at

48:52

me, like, deer in the head I've never talked with this person

48:54

before. And she's looking at deer in the headlights. She's

48:56

like, she knows. she knows, like, there's

48:58

no amount of Ayahuasca trips, there's no amount

49:01

of shocker alignments, there's no amount of no

49:03

matter you name it, go you can go to XYZ

49:06

temple to meditate for three,

49:09

seven, ten, twelve, twenty

49:11

four, thirty six. There's some people

49:13

who who meditate for a whole lifetime. You find these

49:15

Buddhist who who are in these, like, temples who do it,

49:17

who literally are like in caves. Yeah. Like,

49:19

that's how wisely they are. There's nothing you can

49:22

do is there's no one in sight. Right. There's

49:24

no way you can escape the world of oneism.

49:26

That's right. you have to you have to jump

49:28

into tourism, you have to find peace with Christ.

49:31

And it's just awesome to see,

49:33

like, your perspective and just because

49:36

I I see around the whole world like

49:38

right now. I mean, just culturally, you

49:40

know, text, you know, which talk and you see all

49:42

craziness -- Yeah. -- but you see this,

49:45

like, remnant that God is just saving

49:47

people out of the New Age. And they are like,

49:49

you see this, like, like,

49:51

just like this. Oh, I'm just I this is a

49:53

oasis in the desert and their parts.

49:56

And just one last thing and and you can give

49:58

me your thoughts as we we wrap up here,

50:00

like, you're new in the faith. I'm in a Christian for twenty

50:03

years. And, like, I know tons

50:05

of people who have

50:09

were in the faith who have walked away from the

50:11

faith who have, like, deconstructed -- Yeah.

50:13

-- people that, like, I looked

50:15

up to as a kid, people like a match from

50:17

DC talk and you have other

50:19

people that are very popular, like a lot of popular

50:22

bands. Like, who's band

50:24

I think it was under oath. I think those guys deconstructed

50:27

their, like, Christian, like, screen old band. They had

50:29

some great songs. But I've

50:31

seen Like, in the same way, these

50:33

people have walked away. Like,

50:35

I see New Aagers, like grabbing

50:37

-- Yeah. -- what they walked away from. So the whole

50:39

parable of of the pearl of great price.

50:42

Like, I've seen that, like,

50:44

happen, like, in real time from my

50:46

vantage point. And it's So on one level,

50:49

it's like it's heartbreak. It's like there's a weird duality.

50:51

We're at one level, it's it's amazing to see, but

50:53

it's also heartbreaking. Mhmm. Like saying, like,

50:55

why is it why are you walking away from this? because

50:57

I'm seeing all these other people

50:59

who are coming out of the new age and they're just it's

51:02

everything like Jesus is everything to them

51:04

and walked away. Yeah. I mean, I

51:06

I just think of the parable of the prodigal son.

51:08

Right? You know, born into such prosperity

51:10

and have to go and sleep with sleep with the pigs and

51:12

realize that that's what you're doing. And

51:15

I can say, you know, what what I what I

51:17

really respect about Aaron Rogers and

51:19

Aubrey Marcus is that they're

51:21

I believe that they're sincere in their quest for truth.

51:24

I do believe that. And and I was

51:26

sincere in my quest for truth, and I kept walking

51:28

until I found it. Mhmm. And I believe

51:30

that there are so many people in the New Age world

51:33

that are very sincere about their quest of truth

51:35

and they're and they're very hungry and and they feel

51:37

called by God and they were brave enough to

51:39

walk up to the point where the New Age cult

51:41

says you're not supposed to step past this point.

51:44

And you say, well, I'm I want truth

51:46

more than I want belonging. So I'll step

51:48

past this point into truth. is what I

51:50

did, and I found what I was looking for. Scientificification

51:53

and regeneration is real. Peace with God

51:55

is real. My personal transformation.

51:57

If you wanna call it out, the piece that I found

51:59

in the joy that I found in my

52:01

heart over the past couple of years

52:03

since I've been baptized unlike any other

52:05

modality I've ever done in so much greater than all of

52:08

them and has brought me the real peace that I'm looking for.

52:10

And I pray that both of these men are very courageous

52:12

in their achievements on earth and very achievement.

52:15

They're very courageous in their spiritual pursuits.

52:18

And I just pray that they continue to have the courage

52:20

to keep walking forward to find where

52:22

the real truth is. And I hope this conversation can

52:24

bless them in that regard. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate

52:26

you in your heart, and this was great. And

52:28

who knows? We might have to get you back on. Maybe we

52:30

can analyze some more clips for your

52:32

Roger. We're seeing what happens to their Rogers or anything

52:35

else going on. This has been great. This has

52:37

been great. Real quickly as we wrap up here,

52:40

where can people find you at? I host a podcast

52:42

called Renaissance of Men, which is all about all about

52:44

the rebirth of masculinity and femininity happening

52:46

around the world today. and Christianity is an

52:48

enormous part of that type of conversations with

52:51

pastors and leaders of, you know, all over

52:53

all over the world that have influenced me and are influencing

52:55

millions of people. And so you can find that

52:57

at link tree dot

52:59

com, sorry, link tree slash random men.

53:01

Awesome. We'll tag in the description as well too.

53:04

Alright. Thank you all for hanging in for

53:06

part three. We have our fun

53:08

little one hour assessment of Aaron

53:10

Rogers and Robert Marcus in this conversation. So

53:13

appreciate you all listening in. And then there's always a program like

53:15

this cannot continue without your support. So if you wanna

53:17

support cultish, go to the cultist

53:19

show dot com. There's a donate tab you can a one

53:21

time becoming monthly partner with us. All

53:24

that being said, we'll talk to you all next time

53:26

on cultists where we enter into the kingdom

53:28

of the cults. Talk to you guys soon.