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1:09

Hello and happy Tuesday. Once

1:11

again, we are shaking things

1:13

up on Cup of Justice

1:15

because sometimes change is a

1:17

good thing, right? We

1:19

want to use this platform to

1:22

amplify other inspiring voices of the

1:24

justice system, especially strong women, because

1:26

frankly, we don't hear enough from

1:29

that perspective of the justice system.

1:31

So today, I am proud to

1:34

present this episode that contains two

1:36

different interviews from two completely different

1:39

inspiring women. In the first half, you'll

1:41

hear from attorney Sarah Ford, who joined

1:43

me and Columbia, South Carolina last week

1:45

for a members-only event called Capital City

1:48

Confidential, where we talked about the good,

1:50

the bad, and the ugly of the

1:52

justice system, especially when it comes to

1:55

victims. I got to know Sarah as

1:57

she was the attorney representing the Justice

1:59

Department. the victims and the

2:01

Bowen Turner case and I so

2:03

appreciate her passion to fix the

2:06

justice system and to use her

2:08

talent for good. Sarah also has

2:10

an awesome podcast called Stepping Toward

2:12

Justice which you can listen to

2:14

wherever you get your pods or

2:17

click the link in the description. And then

2:19

we are changing things

2:21

up with a fun conversation

2:23

with the hilarious and incredibly

2:26

talented former private investigator now

2:28

tick-tock famous, Mackenzie Foltz. Mackenzie

2:31

came across my feed in December

2:33

when I saw this absolutely bananas

2:36

video of her telling a

2:38

story about when she was a PI hired

2:40

by a woman to find the father of

2:42

her child so she could serve him child

2:45

support papers. Well Mackenzie found the

2:47

guy and a whole lot more. I

2:49

want to play you this clip of

2:51

her telling the story mind you while

2:53

she's doing her makeup because wow. And

2:56

so then he spills

2:58

the beans. I think I'm really good

3:00

at this job. Well he says it's

3:02

really none of his business what's going

3:04

on but he could clearly tell that

3:06

this guy has like a harem and

3:08

he remember a scene not one, not

3:10

two, not three, but four women that

3:12

were pregnant coming in and out of

3:14

the building with my guy. So this

3:16

guy has multiple women at different stages

3:18

of pregnancy just oh my god, I'm living

3:20

it up. Now Mackenzie

3:22

is so funny and also really great

3:25

at telling stories but I wanted to

3:27

interview her about her investigative skills

3:29

which really stuck out to me as

3:31

I was watching her videos. She also

3:34

has a podcast called Bating Detectives. Y'all

3:36

should check out wherever you get your

3:38

podcast or in the link in the

3:41

description. Both Mackenzie and Sarah inspire me

3:43

in different ways. They both

3:45

went for careers that I honestly wish I

3:47

pursued when I was younger but I didn't

3:50

have the confidence to do. If

3:52

I've realized anything in the last few

3:54

years it is that we need more

3:56

women in the justice system. We Need

3:58

more women in the justice system. In in a

4:00

courtroom fighting for victims and we need

4:03

more. Women using their and Jewish

4:05

and to solve investigations. I hope

4:07

y'all walk away from these conversations

4:09

inspired and ready to fight the

4:11

good fight, less get into it.

4:19

Or or. Wrong.

4:24

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong!

4:35

Every single one of your thank

4:37

you so much on a thank

4:39

you sir are buying a briefing.

4:42

Great phase or to say so

4:44

many people here have wonderful yeah

4:46

thank you all for joining us

4:48

tonight! It has. Been at ease your

4:50

honey and the last. Few years

4:52

and I can't thank

4:54

you all enough for

4:56

the support along the

4:58

way. Fans.

5:02

And not only for you

5:04

all are you all the

5:06

support has been amazing. That

5:08

meaning people like Sarah has

5:10

been. Life.

5:12

Changing because you feel

5:14

like you're alone and

5:16

you're fighting against the

5:18

grain and there's no

5:20

chance at and ears.

5:23

Any change. And then I'm a thorough

5:25

during the Bow and Turner case and.

5:28

She really gave me a lot

5:30

of inspiration, and that reminded me

5:32

that he can do hard things

5:35

and a sanders them really hard

5:37

thanks. Thank. You for joining us!

5:39

Thanks so much for having me at Saw!

5:41

It's great to be here with y'all and

5:43

to to chat with you all and talk

5:45

about all the things because there's so much

5:47

going on every day it seems like more

5:49

and more and more and things that we

5:52

feel like we're up against the brick wall

5:54

and how are we gonna over com our

5:56

going to get over the brick wall on

5:58

but it's so nice to be. among people

6:00

who see that there may be

6:02

a brick wall in front of us, but we

6:05

can get over it. We can make good things

6:07

happen. We can make change for the

6:09

people that need it the most. And

6:12

so I'm glad to be here to chat with you. I'm

6:14

so inspired by your story and the

6:16

work that you do for victims, because

6:20

no one wants to read my emotions and things like

6:22

that. But the way you tell victims stories through

6:25

the work, it's wonderful. So I'm grateful

6:27

to be here with you and to

6:29

talk about all the things. Yeah. Well,

6:31

first things first, I think we should

6:33

talk about the Bowman Turner case. Okay.

6:36

It's okay with you. Yeah. Yeah.

6:39

Just get right into it. Let's jump in. Yeah.

6:42

What did you learn from that case

6:44

and what can we learn to change

6:46

the system from what happened

6:49

there? I think originally,

6:51

you know, I was not involved with the

6:53

case, but it happened in my hometown where

6:55

I grew up. And, you

6:58

know, for me, being a former

7:00

public defender and being a prosecutor and

7:02

now a victim's rights attorney, seeing the

7:04

way that victims were being spoken of

7:06

in a courtroom and what they were

7:09

having to deal with, being bullied

7:11

by adults in a community that I

7:13

was from, just, it

7:16

was horrifying to me. And I

7:19

think if I could say

7:21

that I've learned one thing from that

7:23

experience is that there are really good

7:25

people in the world. Even when you

7:28

think that everyone is against

7:30

you and you think that we

7:32

cannot, we can't do

7:34

this, that it's too, you know, it's too

7:36

strong, that the system is against us, there

7:39

are good people of the world. And

7:41

it's those people that make it easier to

7:43

keep going, to keep fighting, to keep pushing,

7:45

even when you feel like

7:47

you get slapped by the courts, you get slapped

7:49

by, you know, some

7:51

folks in the media or just slapped, you know,

7:53

walking in the grocery store and, you know, people

7:56

literally say, hmm, they turn their

7:58

back, you know, I grew up there, I live there. That's

8:01

okay. And I think

8:03

what you said earlier is that you're not

8:05

alone in that. And sometimes you do feel

8:07

like you're alone with that. But the survivors

8:10

in that case and the

8:13

scholar family and the best family

8:15

are just, they're incredible people. And

8:19

it was so tragic to meet

8:21

them at one of

8:23

the worst moments in their lives, but to be able

8:25

to try and give them some semblance of direction

8:29

in a really difficult experience. It was

8:31

really a true privilege for me. And

8:34

validation, I think

8:36

that a lot of victims like

8:38

Sandy is here. That's

8:41

something that I've learned from

8:43

just listening to them is

8:46

not only do they want

8:48

justice and they, of course, want

8:51

to be heard, but validation and just somebody

8:53

to listen to them and tell

8:56

them you're not wrong here. This investigation is

8:58

messed up and the things that are happening

9:00

here is messed up and I'm going to

9:02

fight for you. It's huge.

9:05

And I think that something that I've learned

9:07

along the way is that a lot

9:10

of times we just see

9:12

something that's impossible and you just walk away from

9:14

it because it's too hard. And

9:16

if you think about the little

9:18

things that you can do, like

9:20

give a victim validation and

9:22

make them feel less alone,

9:25

maybe you cannot solve

9:27

their case. Maybe you cannot win in

9:30

court, but at least you

9:32

made it better for them. Yeah, you

9:34

know, as a foreign prosecutor, one of

9:36

the things that used to frustrate me

9:38

the most was I would

9:40

go in and I would have a victim and

9:42

the victim would often be sitting there by

9:44

themselves with a victim advocate.

9:47

And then you'd have a descendant would walk

9:49

in and they would have their mom and

9:52

their dad and their boss and their choir

9:54

director and their third grade teacher and this

9:56

entire group of people standing there saying,

9:59

you know, this perpetrator is a

10:01

good person, they made a mistake, you

10:03

know, whatever they're going to say, and you

10:05

have a victim that's sitting there by themselves.

10:08

And that used to really, it used to

10:10

frustrate me a lot. And I think that's

10:12

why I got into the work that I'm

10:14

doing now with victims, because they deserve to

10:16

have someone stand there with them, and

10:19

to fight for them, and to represent them and

10:21

say, you're not crazy for thinking

10:23

this is, you know, this is not normal,

10:25

this is not right. You know, you have

10:27

all of these rights, you just have to

10:29

assert them, we can get these rights enforced.

10:32

And so it's a real privilege to do

10:34

that work. And to just

10:37

make people feel that, you

10:41

know, you may be in

10:43

the worst situation that you've ever been in. But

10:46

together, you know, I can't fix all

10:49

the things, I can't always,

10:51

you know, have success in the courtroom, but

10:53

you're not going to be alone. And that's

10:55

always really important for people. And

10:58

for us too. Right, it is. Does it

11:00

weigh heavy on you? Sure, yeah,

11:03

it does. It does. But

11:05

in a good way, it's a good heaviness,

11:08

because at the end of the day, you

11:10

know, I know who I am, I know that the work

11:13

I do, I know my heart. And,

11:15

you know, sometimes it has to be enough,

11:17

people will always have something to say about you, right?

11:19

You know, if you're ever you're doing anything, they're

11:21

always going to have something to say. But if

11:23

you know what you're doing, if your heart is

11:25

in the right place, if you're stepping

11:28

out sometimes by yourself, to

11:31

stand up for somebody who maybe doesn't have that

11:33

voice, it's heavy, but

11:36

it's a good heavy. Yeah, I realized

11:38

that early, thankfully, kind of early

11:40

on in the whole podcast, saying,

11:42

I have a lot of

11:45

trolls. And

11:48

I finally realized I felt

11:50

like paralyzed, like,

11:52

if any move that I make, they're going

11:54

to make fun of me, they're going to

11:56

laugh at me, they are going to ridicule

11:59

me. then I

12:01

finally just had a kind of

12:03

an they're

12:23

going to pick you apart for some reason or

12:25

another. But it just shoved

12:28

that to the side. Once you shove that

12:30

to the side, it's very revolutionary. It

12:32

is because you know, you're like, they

12:35

don't have anything to say about people who are in the

12:37

arena. That's one of my favorite quotes, as you know. My

12:41

dad gave that quote to me by

12:43

Theodore Roosevelt, my first office. So it

12:45

was Theodore Roosevelt and then Brene Brown.

12:48

And then Brene Brown. Yeah, well, yeah,

12:50

I'm with you. But

12:52

you know, it's you know, you're in the arena,

12:54

you're stepping in there and it's okay to lose.

12:56

But you're in the arena and all the people

12:59

up there kind of be saying, you know, you

13:01

didn't do this right or you didn't do that

13:03

right. But at least I'm in

13:05

there. You know, I may be

13:07

marred with blood and dirt all over my

13:09

face, but I'm in there fighting the fight.

13:12

And if you're not in there fighting the fight, I

13:14

love where Brene Brown took this. I'm not

13:16

interested in your feedback. Yeah. If you don't have something

13:19

to say. I'm not interested. I

13:23

don't want to hear that. Yeah. I

13:25

think that her quote was like, if you're not getting

13:27

your ass kicked in the arena, I

13:29

don't want to hear you be interested.

13:31

Because, yeah, we both have. And it

13:34

is hard and it's something that and

13:36

I and I wish as a society,

13:38

I don't even think people realize sometimes

13:40

that like when you say things,

13:44

it really matters. I mean,

13:46

little tiny things when I

13:48

was deep inside the investigation

13:50

and really not sleeping and

13:54

all I was doing is eat sleep

13:56

and breathing Murdoch. It was the tiniest

13:59

thing I've ever seen. little things would just like break

14:01

me they

14:06

start out emails and things with like I

14:09

don't mean to come across as blah blah

14:11

blah I'm

14:15

really meaning to be helpful and now I've

14:17

just learned to delete those before

14:19

I read the rest because they're never

14:22

nice never, they just never but

14:25

yeah you just got to realize

14:28

how to take it and shove that to the

14:30

side and it does not matter. Yeah if

14:32

you're not in there doing it then you

14:35

know doesn't matter. It doesn't matter and it's

14:38

you know I think like I

14:40

said I think most people are good

14:42

people but I think sometimes social media

14:44

and the internet gives people this mass

14:46

that they think they can say whatever

14:48

they want and there

14:51

should be consequences to what we say. I'm

14:53

not you know we've got to make sure

14:55

that you know if you say

14:57

something mean on the internet that means you're

14:59

a mean person it doesn't mean you know

15:02

like well I just said it on the

15:04

internet so it doesn't matter it does

15:06

matter and it's important because we have

15:08

kids and you know young people that

15:10

they've lived their entire lives on the

15:13

internet and social media. I was lucky I was

15:15

like the last generation that like you

15:18

know I had the cell phone and it was

15:20

like don't use this cell phone it's for emergencies

15:22

only you know like we only call at night

15:24

and weekends it was only free then you know

15:27

but we have a whole generation of kids that

15:29

are coming up and this is all they know

15:32

and it's really difficult when

15:34

they're faced with just

15:36

really nastiness and it's

15:39

hard but anyways moving on I could

15:42

talk about that forever because it's just

15:44

my let's

15:46

talk about how we elect our judges in

15:49

South Carolina. Oh

15:54

gosh hold on can I have a sip first? Wow

15:57

so I think it's really interesting that

16:00

South Carolina is one of only two

16:03

states where the legislature appoints our

16:05

judges, elects our judges and

16:09

we've got a we've got a system

16:12

in my opinion that needs

16:15

some tweaks, needs some adjustments

16:18

because we have really powerful lawyer legislators

16:21

that make a lot of decisions about

16:23

judges and then they appear in front

16:25

of those judges and they're able to

16:27

put off cases for three four five

16:32

six I'm not joking seven years

16:34

I have cases my paralegal is

16:36

here right now and she can

16:38

confirm we have cases

16:40

that are years and years old

16:42

and so it makes

16:46

me wonder is this the

16:48

best way we could do this surely

16:50

we can make a better system. Is

16:53

the delay mostly because of

16:55

their status? So there's protection

17:00

for lawyer legislators really

17:02

from January nowadays it

17:04

feels like it's all year long it's

17:06

like all the month so traditionally it's

17:08

just supposed to be until July which

17:10

is only half the year

17:13

but if they have any sort of hearing

17:15

going on or any sort of business

17:18

from the legislature they

17:20

get to put off any cases and

17:22

so that's that's really tough for a lot

17:24

of prosecutors that are saying you know we've got

17:27

six months to get all these cases with

17:29

this particular lawyer legislator done but that's just

17:32

in one circuit we have 16 circuits

17:34

in South Carolina so imagine if they've got

17:36

cases all around the state how difficult it

17:39

is and I mean they're only human as

17:41

well you can't prepare you know

17:43

you can't be ready to try a case every

17:46

week that's just impossible so in that

17:48

sense a lot of victims see their cases

17:50

pushed for years and years

17:52

and years and it's just

17:54

alarming because victims have the right to

17:57

a prompt disposition and I don't know

17:59

about y'all but four or five years that's

18:01

not no

18:05

we were looking into the

18:08

Stephen Smith case again this

18:10

week and noticed two

18:13

of the officers have died since

18:17

Stephen died I mean

18:19

that is how long time has

18:21

passed and it's insane yeah it

18:24

and that happens a lot we've seen a

18:27

lot of cases where witnesses will die or

18:31

their memory gets distorted or it's but

18:36

it always works for in the defense's

18:38

favor it does yeah the longer time

18:41

passes they want that to happen and

18:43

I remember when I

18:45

was investigating the boat crash

18:48

back in 2020 I remember getting

18:50

a call that was like a

18:52

dick or putlian is going it's

18:55

gonna be five years before and that's wasn't

18:57

Paul is alive this it's gonna be five

18:59

years before the boat crash goes to trial

19:02

because he's gonna be able to push it and push it and

19:04

push it and for that that would

19:07

be those kids going from age

19:09

20 to 25 and looking back

19:11

on when they were

19:14

20 or 19 and

19:16

that's a long time to recall

19:19

a traumatizing event

19:21

and what happens

19:23

then is the defense

19:26

wins and there

19:28

has to be something done but what do

19:30

you think the solution what are the solutions

19:33

with the way that

19:35

we are with our system and electing

19:37

our judges and specifically

19:40

I'm not someone that likes to you know if

19:43

things need to be changed I think we need

19:45

to change them but I don't think there are

19:47

major changes that need to happen with our system

19:49

I think lawyer legislators need to get off the

19:51

Judicial Merit Selection Commission they're the

19:53

ones that get to present the three

19:57

You know they present the three right now at.

20:00

They can present up to three

20:02

people who are qualified nominated and

20:04

the something smells funny. you know

20:06

if it does doesn't pass the

20:08

smell test to mean that should

20:10

be enough. If people are think

20:13

this doesn't feel right this doesn't

20:15

look right much. to make it

20:17

a better product I think that

20:19

will be a good start. I

20:21

think not limiting the number of

20:23

people that you nominate on either

20:26

right now in our legislature has

20:28

put off electing judges because. We

20:30

have some members of the senate who are

20:32

saying you know we want you to sue

20:34

Reform to keep hearing a lot about you

20:36

does your form but I don't see a

20:38

lot of things happening or at seeing any

20:40

of these bills and committee and that's frustrating

20:42

because. We're saying as

20:44

a we've both. You know people who

20:46

are in the community are concerned about

20:49

this, but we're not seeing a lot

20:51

of action because those who have power.

20:53

Why? Would you want to give that up?

20:55

You probably eat All gray are holding

20:57

on to their holding on to it

21:00

so I think you know. Figuring

21:02

out what we can do with

21:04

a jam as see getting more

21:06

legislators out of their getting more

21:08

regular people on that committee. You

21:10

know a lot of people who

21:13

are nominated for for judges in

21:15

South Carolina have a lot of

21:17

interesting connections with members of the

21:19

legislature. army node, sons, daughters, law

21:21

partners. in him is it's a

21:23

bit of a pardon my language,

21:25

but an incestuous cesspool arm and

21:28

it just doesn't smell right. And

21:30

as someone who represents victims. In

21:32

the court room all the time. I

21:34

see the advantages that that were legislators

21:36

get. Whether they want to tell me

21:38

I'm crazy for seeing mad or not

21:40

I know what I see and and

21:43

my my clients, victims and survivors in

21:45

South Carolina know with a C so

21:47

there's definitely were to be done. Their.

21:50

on march sweepers are victims matter

21:52

rally or third annual victims at

21:54

a rally is happening at the

21:56

statehouse it's just an opportunity to

21:58

let the legislature No,

22:02

victims are not alone. There are

22:04

people that support them. There are

22:06

people that stand with them, and

22:08

we care. And it's

22:10

really cathartic and beautiful for victims and

22:12

survivors to be together and

22:14

to have people that support

22:16

them, surround them with such

22:18

positivity and love, because

22:22

it's hard. You know, when you're a

22:25

victim in Marlboro County, South Carolina, and you're

22:27

thinking, this makes no sense. Why is all

22:29

this stuff happening? And then you're able to

22:31

connect with other people and know this is

22:33

not right, and I can actually do something about

22:35

it. There are people that will stand with me

22:37

and stand in that courtroom with me that they'll

22:40

fight for me. It's really

22:42

a beautiful thing. And so, I love that

22:44

event. I'm very, I just, I

22:46

love that it keeps growing and you know, that

22:48

we have more and more victim service providers there.

22:51

And you know, I hear from survivors, you

22:53

know, every year that just say, it

22:56

just makes me feel good to stand

22:58

there with other people who get what I've

23:00

been through. They know, they've

23:03

seen where our system has fallen

23:05

short. And maybe

23:07

we can't go back and fix what happened

23:09

to me, but I can stand here and

23:11

support people in the future.

23:13

And I can say, you know what? It's

23:15

not, we're not gonna let it happen anymore.

23:17

We're not gonna let it happen again. And

23:19

that's just really powerful for survivors. Yeah,

23:22

it's all, the

23:24

stroller is hug Sandy Smith

23:26

and at that event,

23:29

and it was just a

23:31

really powerful, empowering

23:34

moment, like seeing

23:36

these people connect with one another

23:38

and seeing again, I think the

23:40

theme of this conversation is making

23:42

sure victims don't feel alone and

23:44

whatever you can do for that. But

23:48

seeing these victims come together and seeing

23:50

there was a woman that had a

23:53

Justice for Stephen Smith sign

23:55

and it was just amazing.

23:57

And I can't

23:59

wait for it. this year and it will be less hot

24:01

because it's in. We were

24:04

really sweaty last year. I was sweating. So

24:06

it was at nine o'clock in the morning

24:08

in May and I was like, oh, it'll

24:10

be fine. But Columbia is a different kind

24:12

of hot. It is a different hot. The

24:16

Lowcountry isn't even that hot. Oh my gosh.

24:19

Famously hot in Columbia, right? Yeah, it really is.

24:21

They're not joking. Nine o'clock in the morning we

24:23

were all like, oh my God. Yeah.

24:26

But it'll be fun in March this year. I'm excited.

24:29

I'm very, very excited and I'm really,

24:31

each year it's gotten bigger and we've had more

24:34

involvement and so I'm really

24:36

excited to have more people join us.

24:38

And some people they're like, I

24:40

had no idea that victims had rights,

24:43

like defendants have rights. I'm like, yeah.

24:45

There's a whole bill. There's a whole bit,

24:47

it's constitutional. It's a whole bill. I get so

24:50

excited because I'm- It's a whole bill because if you

24:52

pay attention to the news and things like that, people,

24:56

I don't even think I knew victims had

24:58

a bill of rights until I

25:01

started getting into this stuff. I mean-

25:03

Well, defendants rights are so ingrained in

25:05

our consciousness. Kids playing like policeman or

25:07

like, you have the right to remain

25:09

silent. They know. And

25:12

those are things that we just, we

25:14

all know. Innocent and healthy.

25:16

Innocent and healthy. Inincident and guilty. If you can't

25:18

afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.

25:22

But the legal nerd in me is like

25:24

Article One, Section 24 of the South Carolina

25:26

Constitution says, hey, victims,

25:28

you have the right to an attorney. You

25:30

have the right to be represented. You have

25:33

the right to be treated with dignity and

25:35

respect. You have the right to restitution, which,

25:38

oh gosh, don't get me started on that. Victims

25:40

have that right. Victims have the right to

25:43

confer with the prosecutor. They have the

25:45

right to speak at any hearing where

25:48

bail or bond or sentencing is happening.

25:50

They have so many rights. And they're

25:52

like, I had no idea. So

25:55

anytime I can put my little nerd legal hat on

25:57

and talk about it, it makes me excited. And

26:00

three, the murder case.

26:03

People. Certain freely getting like

26:05

standing up for Alex Murdoch

26:07

him being legs but he

26:09

has ways. Place.

26:13

for day old. On, take a

26:16

step back. Can you picture yourself

26:18

and Alec Smirnoff shoes war? the

26:20

nutrition six years old and the

26:22

victims frame and my sorry, I

26:24

can't picture myself in his shoes

26:26

so I don't care And. Space.

26:30

I mean you know or system has

26:32

to have all the players you know

26:34

we have that prosecutors we have fab

26:36

defense attorney defense attorneys matter we have

26:39

to have ever raised please their part

26:41

but our system is not designed with

26:43

victims in mind. it's just. Not you

26:45

know, victims for so long have been pushed

26:47

to the side and you know I hear

26:49

you know I'm from working on a case

26:52

this week. Words like to victims even have

26:54

standing and I'm like wow we can argue

26:56

about in corn. I'm excited. Argue that this

26:58

You know, We've. Gotten but

27:01

for what happened to the victim.

27:03

Nobody would be doing and it

27:05

would not. Law enforcement about prosecutors,

27:07

jet and nothing And yet we

27:09

leave victims out until the very

27:11

end. It's like by the way

27:13

to o'clock Skyn to be guilty

27:15

blunts like whoa, hold up arms

27:17

not informing the and nine not

27:19

late night and yet we talk

27:21

about this tale of our our

27:23

lot of friends. They take the

27:25

victims Bill of Rights as a

27:27

way similar and set of way.

27:29

oh absolutely should make these people

27:32

feel. Like they've

27:34

been brutally validated. Whole air and all

27:36

that life is how some and makes

27:38

them feel like we did something for

27:40

them and make them feel like the

27:43

system didn't stop all over them exactly.

27:45

It doesn't take a whole lot to

27:47

do that, There's so many resources out

27:49

there he detested have a conversation with

27:52

someone yeah I I sit on. I

27:54

see do a lot of. Prosecutions,

27:57

with such crimes against women and children And,

28:01

you know, we used to have people say, well, another victim's here,

28:03

they want to drop the charges. And

28:05

so, and say, well, you just want to send them away? I

28:07

say, no, I want to talk to them. What do they have

28:09

to say? And the victim would come

28:11

in and say, I want to drop these charges. And

28:14

my question is always,

28:16

and maybe I'm not asking them

28:18

this directly, but me, why? What is

28:20

it? Is it this

28:23

really didn't happen? Is it they

28:26

don't have anyone bringing in money to their house so

28:28

they can't feed their kids and they don't know how

28:30

they're going to pay the electric bill? Is that what

28:32

it is? Is it, you

28:34

know, they've left time and time before

28:37

and it's, you know, they've not been able

28:39

to just extricate themselves from the cycle of

28:41

violence. What is it? And

28:44

we have to have conversations with people that

28:47

are admittedly very difficult to have,

28:49

but it's essential if we are going to

28:52

really serve and support victims and survivors. That's

28:54

the only thing that's going to change. I

28:57

feel like there's a lot of shame with victims

29:00

in our society. Like all of a sudden,

29:02

if you're a victim in the court system,

29:05

they feel like, oh, have you seen

29:07

that? I know I've seen that and

29:09

it's horrible. You know, anytime,

29:11

you know, the work

29:13

that we do at South County Victim Assistance

29:16

Network, I'm the legal director and we have

29:18

an amazing team. Shout out to Nicole McKeown,

29:20

who's victim service provider and apparently goes, she

29:22

keeps, she's wonderful. We

29:27

have six attorneys and we have four

29:29

victim service providers, victim advocates, peer legal

29:32

and it is so

29:35

incredibly important, you know, the work

29:37

that we're able to do and

29:39

support these victims

29:42

because when a victim calls us

29:44

and says, this is what's happening or this is,

29:46

you know, what's going on, they think

29:48

that their situation is the only situation, you

29:50

know, it's the only situation like this. Until

29:53

you hear a podcast like Mandy's where

29:55

it's like, you know, all this

29:57

other stuff is happening, but the work that

29:59

we're able to do and you know the

30:01

motions and things that we're able to write and

30:03

things that we're able to push,

30:06

these are things that are nobody's really doing

30:08

this work for victims and

30:10

you know anytime we can draw attention to saying,

30:13

okay I'm not going to call names but I

30:15

got an email from a judge this week who

30:17

said, in 30 years

30:19

I've never had a victim's attorney take

30:23

such a position. I've never even seen a victim's

30:25

attorney in a courtroom. I

30:28

was like, oh that's so cute. There's

30:30

a first time for everything. It's

30:33

me, hi. I see, hi. I

30:35

see. I'm the problem, it's

30:38

me. But it's

30:40

you know just because we've always done things a

30:42

certain way or the system is well we've never

30:45

done this or I've never had to you

30:47

know do a hearing because a victim's requested

30:49

that. It's okay. You guys are

30:51

going to be okay. It's like it

30:54

should be the whole reason why the system exists and

30:56

then they completely forget and then they're like, oh who

30:58

are you? What are we doing? What

31:00

are we doing? What

31:02

are we doing? But you know

31:04

the work that victim advocates and

31:06

victim service providers are able to

31:08

do and to work with victims,

31:10

it's so incredibly important and

31:13

it's a true privilege to do that work, it really is.

31:27

And we'll be right back with Mackenzie Foltz.

31:52

Thank you. For

32:00

important safety information and to find

32:02

a licensed specialist, visit juvederm.com. That's

32:06

juvederm.com. Not

32:10

for people with severe allergic reactions,

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allergy, psilocytocaine or the proteins used

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in Juvederm. Common side effects include

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injection site redness, swelling, pain, tenderness,

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firmness, lumps, bumps, bruising, discoloration or

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itching. There's a risk of unintentional

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injection into a blood vessel which

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can cause vision, abnormalities, blindness, stroke,

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temporary scabs or scarring. Talk to

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a licensed specialist to find out

32:31

if it's right for you. This

32:34

show is supported by State Farm. Insurance

32:37

is a part of any solid financial plan. Making

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sure you have the important things in life

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covered is one of the best ways to

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give yourself a little breathing room when things

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price for your business. Like

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a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Talk

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to your local agent today. Cups

33:29

up, Mackenzie. Cups up. So excited

33:31

to have you on the show.

33:33

Cheers. Cheers. Tell us a

33:35

little about yourself. You're also known as Freedom Barbie

33:37

on the internet. You have a huge following that

33:40

reached me a couple months ago and I got

33:42

really excited. So tell me about yourself. I was

33:44

so excited about when you posted one of the

33:46

videos that I posted, I was like, oh my

33:48

gosh, it's her. Like I had heard your name

33:51

and I was so thrilled. I was beyond. It

33:54

was so great. So my name's Mackenzie

33:56

Folt. I'm a private investigator. I've been in

33:59

the PI industry. here in Florida for the last

34:02

17 years. So just fresh out

34:04

of college and kind

34:06

of got into the PI world because, well actually I

34:09

wanted to be on the SWAT team. My family is

34:12

law enforcement, my dad was a cop and I wanted

34:14

to be on the SWAT team and I shot with cool

34:16

and the kicking down doors and my dad and I

34:18

would always go shoot together. So that was something I

34:20

really loved. And anyway, so I wanted

34:22

to be on the SWAT team. I told my college

34:24

professor that and he said, well, you can't have your

34:26

nails done if you're going to be on the SWAT

34:28

team. Like that's silly. And I was like, okay. And

34:31

so just to be kind of like a jerk and

34:33

this is like in the middle of class. And so

34:35

like just to be kind of the class clown, cause

34:37

I was embarrassed, I had to say something back. And

34:39

so I said, well, I'll make my own rules. I'm

34:42

going to be a private dick. Ha ha ha ha.

34:44

And the whole class laughed and they thought it was

34:46

funny. And you know, I was the class clown. That's

34:48

what I wanted. And so I was like, great. Um,

34:51

and then he said, you'll never make it in that

34:53

industry because you're a girl and that's a man's industry.

34:56

And I was so taken aback that I was just, I just kind

34:58

of like sulked back in my chair. Like I was like, well,

35:01

whatever. And so then I got home and I was

35:03

like, I wonder if I actually really could be a

35:05

PI. So I Google, I got on the Google machine

35:07

and I'm like, what do I have to do to

35:09

be a PI in Florida? And I

35:11

followed all the steps and did all the

35:13

things, contacted the people, took the courses. And

35:16

before you know it, I'm a

35:18

legit licensed private investigator in Florida with

35:20

a full time job. Like that. I've

35:22

never done this before in my life.

35:24

And they just like, let me be

35:26

a PI. And that was the beginning

35:28

of everything. That's

35:31

amazing. What class was that? Where

35:33

the, your stupid professor said, you

35:36

couldn't do it because you're a woman. It was a, it

35:39

was a career of criminal justice careers. So it

35:41

was like, so you were majoring in criminal justice.

35:43

Yeah. And the whole course was about like, what

35:45

can you do with your, and so the college

35:47

that I went to, they had like placement programs.

35:49

So like when you graduated, they wanted to help

35:52

place you in a job of your

35:54

choice, like whatever that is or whatever. And so we

35:57

were talking about the different jobs you could do,

35:59

how much money. you can make and the different

36:01

jobs and everything. And I was like, listen, I shouldn't be on

36:03

the SWAT team. He said no. So I came back and he

36:05

said no again. And I was like, but I

36:07

probably really could. It sounds like every job

36:09

he's like, no, women can't do that. Just

36:12

incredibly sexist and horrible.

36:15

Yeah, like, and this, listen, I'm almost 40

36:17

this year. So maybe it was a long

36:19

time ago, but it wasn't that long ago

36:21

where we're still limiting women on what we

36:23

can do for work. Right. And

36:26

just because. And I, and

36:29

I think women have really

36:32

great PI skills, which is why you're

36:34

on the show. Like

36:36

I, all of our fans

36:38

find things are so good at finding things

36:42

out about people, criminals,

36:44

men, whatever, like

36:47

way better than the cops that I know.

36:49

The cops are like, oh, how do I

36:51

access Snapchat? And

36:53

I mean, not all the cops, some

36:55

of, some of my cops are great,

36:57

but you know what I mean? Like

36:59

sometimes they're women are so, I

37:02

feel like it's instinctual for a lot of women

37:04

to do this kind of work and they're just

37:06

naturally good at it. Do you think that too?

37:09

It's a superpower, right? So women

37:11

are naturally more inquisitive or naturally

37:14

nosy. We are, we naturally have

37:16

these desires to know things and

37:18

our brain just works a little

37:20

bit differently. And so I feel

37:22

like that kind of lends itself

37:25

to being better in

37:27

the PI field as a woman because, and

37:29

especially because if you find yourself in a

37:31

situation where you need to get information, right?

37:33

A lot of private investigators are

37:36

their ex-military, their ex-law enforcement, this

37:38

is something they're doing as like just

37:40

kind of a, I've retired, but I still want

37:42

to work kind of job. And so they are

37:44

very, they're very militant in the way they dress

37:46

and the way they walk and talk. Like you

37:48

just don't get rid of that, right? Like it

37:50

just kind of stays with you. And so imagine

37:52

going up to someone and trying to get information

37:54

from them and you're this big burly guy and

37:57

you're like, hello, I would like to get some

37:59

information. Or you have. this pretty blonde girl that's

38:01

like, hi, oh my gosh, can you help

38:03

me with this? And like, and then they

38:05

just, they're not, you're, they're not intimidated by

38:07

you. And right, you can use it.

38:09

And that's a skill. Yeah. I

38:13

used to see, it's so funny in the

38:16

last like few years, I've really noticed this,

38:18

like I used to think those guys in

38:20

suits, they just had so much going on

38:22

with them. But it's like, no, they actually

38:24

can't. A lot of them,

38:27

their intimidation is not good because

38:30

people just shut down and are like, I

38:32

don't relate to you. I don't know how

38:34

to talk to you. Instead, you could

38:36

just like come up in your pink and be

38:38

like, Hey girl, tell me what's going on here.

38:40

And that's what I've done in a lot of

38:42

journalism. And I think that we

38:44

relate to the, that type of, uh,

38:48

that skill of just the

38:50

old talking to people and getting the dirt from

38:52

them. And it's a very

38:54

long way. It's true.

38:56

And when you're, I have such a big personality

38:58

that a lot of people are like, how are

39:01

you a PI with this personality? The way you

39:03

don't understand is along with my personality comes the

39:06

desire to like befriend people. Like I just

39:08

naturally, I do, I've never met a stranger.

39:10

Like if you've come in contact with me

39:12

in public or otherwise, whatever, you are immediately

39:14

my friend. Like there is love and kindness

39:16

and I'm so excited to see you, even

39:18

if I don't know you. And so I

39:20

think that really that lends itself to kind

39:22

of like people just feel good around you.

39:24

And so that's, you know, it

39:26

makes you feel, it makes them feel

39:28

good and they give you the information.

39:30

Right. Exactly. And they, yeah, it's, it's

39:32

like that warm energy people really respond

39:34

to. Yes. You are so good.

39:37

And I've watched a million of your videos.

39:39

You're so good at quickly telling stories while

39:41

you're doing makeup, which is amazing because I

39:43

can not do two things at once for

39:46

the life of me. Uh, like

39:48

I said, for this, I had to like

39:50

stop what I was doing to do my

39:52

makeup and do my hair and do anything

39:54

else. Can you tell

39:57

us a quick, crazy PI

39:59

story? to give our audience an idea of

40:01

the types of stories that you tell and the kind

40:03

of work that you've done. Yeah.

40:06

So I actually do a lot of

40:08

insurance fraud cases. So a lot of

40:10

it is insurance companies and attorneys

40:12

coming saying, hey, this guy is like in

40:15

this car accident, you know, he's suing Geico

40:17

for like $13 million. You

40:19

know, he says he can never work again. And

40:21

then I go out and I do him, I catch

40:23

him like, you know, skydiving. He says, I can never

40:25

skydive again. I can't, I can't drive my car. Or

40:28

the most recent story I posted was the guy

40:30

like he literally said he could never drive

40:32

again, but he was waiting for his settlement

40:34

from this insurance company. He wanted $13 million

40:37

so he could buy this car that he

40:39

wanted. So he's car shopping while I'm doing

40:41

surveillance on him. He actually like, I, of

40:43

course, I pretended to look in the same

40:45

like car. I pretended to be interested in

40:47

the same car that he was. And so

40:49

I'm at the dealership and I'm kind of

40:51

leaning in listening to the car salesman as

40:53

he's talking about this car, just to let

40:55

them know that I'm, that I'm listening to

40:57

hear what he has to say. Cause I'm

40:59

interested also the car salesman goes inside and he

41:01

comes out or the guy, my subject who was

41:03

looking at the car says, Hey, listen, we're going

41:05

to go on this, on this test drive. Why

41:08

don't you just come with, you're already interested in the car, like just

41:10

join us. So it was going to be me and

41:12

him and the car salesman. We were going to go take a spin

41:14

in this car. The intercom goes

41:16

off and asked for the salesman. So he's like,

41:18

Hey, listen, I'm going to go inside. I got

41:20

to take care of something. I'm going to, you

41:22

know, you guys just go take your, take

41:24

your, take her for a test drive, whatever.

41:27

So I ended up getting in a car with this

41:29

strange man that I have no idea to test drive

41:31

it. Okay. Because I wanted to

41:33

document him inside the car, actually driving because outside

41:36

the car, he was holding his arm real close,

41:38

like in a sling like, Oh, I can't move

41:40

my arm. So things like,

41:42

so I get into this car with a strange man

41:44

and I'm videotaping him actually using it to drive. And

41:46

while we're in the car, we're driving down the road

41:48

and he looked, he turns and looks at me and

41:50

goes, Oh, I could, I could kidnap you and no

41:53

one would ever find us until we're halfway out of

41:55

town. Ha ha ha. I was like,

41:57

I'm for sure going to be murdered. Like, I'm.

42:00

that he's gonna do a murder, like I'm, it's

42:02

fine. Like my best friend knows to clear my

42:04

browser history. Like, that's all I remember thinking about

42:06

was, I hope she clears my browser history.

42:10

Anyway, so stuff like that. And I

42:12

do a lot of cheating spouse cases,

42:14

like crazy, crazy

42:17

stories about these. I

42:19

actually did a celebrity sports baller and he

42:21

was cheating on his wife and he had

42:23

come here with his mistress. They flew on

42:26

in two separate, they flew in to Florida

42:28

on two separate flights, but then they walked

42:30

to each other. So like, they did that

42:32

to kind of not put their names on

42:35

the same itinerary. And so when

42:37

he got off his flight, he walked to her flight and they met and

42:39

then they went to go pick up their luggage. Anyway,

42:42

so they stayed the weekend here. And then the

42:44

wife actually, it was actually her dad, the wife's

42:47

dad who wanted to do surveillance because she didn't

42:49

want to believe what he was doing. And so

42:51

I actually, she flew me out there, out

42:54

towards the West Coast and to do surveillance

42:56

on him out there and got

42:59

a bunch of crazy video on

43:01

him with his mistress who

43:03

he proposed to while he's texting his wife saying

43:05

he misses her and that he wants to work

43:07

things out they had been fighting. And yeah, it

43:09

was a doozy, frigging doozy, crazy. These

43:11

people are nuts. Is that like

43:13

depressing to you to see like

43:16

how many men cheat and

43:18

how terrible they are? Like, I feel

43:20

like that would weigh me down a

43:23

little bit. It does, I'll

43:25

be honest. It does in the beginning, but you

43:27

get numb to it. Like you, like just like

43:29

anything negative that, you know, anything negative

43:31

that happens, you just get numb to it. And you

43:33

just kind of realize like, this is my job. Like

43:35

this is, this is what I do. Like this is

43:37

the information that they paid me to find out. These

43:39

are the skill, I have the skills to find it

43:41

out. And that's my job, that's what I do. But

43:44

it is, it does kind of hurt your feelings a

43:46

little bit, but I'll be honest with you. A lot

43:48

of times a woman will hire me to follow her

43:50

husband or whatever. And he, I won't catch him cheating

43:52

at all. Not to say he's not cheating, but

43:54

I won't catch him. But I do normally

43:56

catch them when it's a wife cheating or

43:59

a female cheating. I catch them more

44:01

often than the men. And so

44:03

I find that interesting considering the fact that

44:05

women are more thoughtful about that stuff, a

44:07

little more sly when it comes to stuff

44:09

like that. So it makes me wonder if

44:12

women actually do maybe cheat more. And

44:15

do women suspect it more?

44:18

Are you hired by like the... Are

44:20

you hired by more women who hire

44:22

you for cheating, surveillance

44:25

versus men? Yeah, it's more

44:27

women. If a... You

44:31

can sometimes tell. I've

44:33

had some men hire me that were like... They

44:36

knew that their wives were cheating. They just

44:38

wanted to like find out who the guy

44:40

was so they could like beat him up.

44:42

And I'm like, yeah, I can't. I'm not

44:44

going to give you that guy's information. We're

44:46

not going there. Oh my gosh. Do you

44:48

carry when you... How do

44:51

you protect yourself when you're

44:53

doing surveillance in these kind

44:56

of scary situations? Being in a

44:58

car with your subject, that's kind of

45:00

scary. How do you stay safe?

45:03

So for the sake of just

45:06

not saying one way or the other, just know

45:08

that I feel very well protected. Good.

45:11

I'm just glad I was worried about you. So...

45:14

No, and actually my dad was a firearms

45:17

instructor for the sheriff's office when I grew up.

45:19

And so he trained me a lot. We would

45:21

go to the range and we would do the

45:24

dueling tree. We did a lot

45:26

of training and so I'm very comfortable around

45:28

firearms. I know them really well. I'm

45:30

very well trained. I actually train often. My husband and

45:32

I go on date nights and we train. So I

45:34

do feel very well protected when I go out in

45:36

the field. My husband's looking at

45:39

me like, we need to do that because we

45:42

go get sushi and go to the gun

45:44

range. That's what we do. Oh fun. I

45:46

love that. We get each other a gun every birthday.

45:48

We love it. We're hobbyists. I

45:50

like it. Yeah. I

45:54

mean, I feel like that would be the one

45:57

thing as a woman that would... maybe

46:00

prevent you a little bit. For

46:03

me, there are some things that I just

46:05

won't do by myself, won't

46:07

go just, I don't feel safe. And

46:10

it's kind of, you have to

46:12

draw those lines for yourself. Do

46:14

you turn down cases

46:17

that are like too dangerous? So

46:19

in the beginning, in the beginning,

46:22

I was, I'm very competitive. And

46:25

so I feel like since my college professor told

46:27

me you're a girl, you can never do that.

46:30

If I turn down a job because

46:32

I feel unsafe, all I'm doing is

46:35

basically making him accurate. Like, oh, you're

46:37

a girl, you can't do that, that's unsafe. So

46:40

in the beginning, I would absolutely go out, I

46:42

didn't care how dangerous it was. I was gonna

46:44

do this, I was gonna do this job, I

46:46

didn't care who was there, I didn't care what

46:48

was gonna happen, I was absolutely gonna show

46:50

up. Little by little, I

46:52

kinda learned that my safety was more important

46:54

than my pride. And so there were certain

46:57

areas that I kinda stopped working in, I

46:59

was like, don't even ask me to work

47:01

there, I don't even care. I just don't,

47:03

like I had to stop, I had to

47:05

put my pride aside and just stop worrying

47:07

about like, you know, if they thought

47:10

I was, you're only as good as your last case,

47:12

right? And if you turn down a case in the

47:14

private investigation, like kinda industry, we

47:16

kinda work with one another. Like most

47:18

of the times a private investigator doesn't just work

47:20

with one company, like you're working with this guy in

47:22

this company and this individual person that has a pimping

47:24

in, agency and all this stuff. And so if you

47:26

turn down a case, that's all they're gonna, they're gonna

47:29

remember that if they call you, you're gonna say no,

47:31

and so they won't call you for cases anymore. And

47:33

so I wanted to make it a point that I'll

47:35

do it, like nobody else will do it, I'll

47:38

do it. And so I did have to learn that

47:40

like, sometimes you gotta say no. Something

47:42

else I wanted to talk to you about, so

47:45

with your, it

47:47

seems like you have a pretty big range with

47:49

the things that you've done as a PI.

47:52

Have you ever been hired for

47:54

a murder investigation? Yeah,

47:56

actually a couple of them. So what's

47:59

difficult about- Well, being hired to

48:01

investigate and murder after it's already been

48:03

investigated by law enforcement is the access

48:06

to records, the access to evidence, everything's

48:08

been destroyed and looked through and then

48:10

if it's still open and they're still

48:12

investigating or if it's just not closed,

48:15

you don't have access to literally anything

48:17

and they just put like a huge

48:19

damper on everything. But I will say

48:22

that law enforcement

48:24

officers are bound by

48:26

a certain set of rules. I am not bound

48:28

by those same set of rules. So where law

48:30

enforcement officers have to have like, they have to

48:32

have warrants and they have to have like, you

48:34

know, reasonable cause or whatever it's called, like, I

48:36

don't need any of that. All I, all I

48:39

have to do is walk up to someone, pretend

48:41

to be someone else and just like do a

48:44

little social engineering to get some information, right? So

48:46

I don't have to announce myself as a law

48:48

enforcement officer. I don't know, I don't even know

48:50

if that's still a rule anymore. But

48:52

anyways, I can get around those

48:54

things differently than a law enforcement

48:57

officer can but still it's

48:59

the evidence that you don't get to

49:01

have as much access to and that's

49:03

what hinders your investigation. So a lot

49:05

of, when you're working on a murder,

49:07

it's a lot of talking to people.

49:10

You have to rely on the words

49:12

of others, like you have no choice. But I haven't done

49:14

very many, like I haven't done enough to really like speak

49:17

on it or anything but that's my experience, that you have

49:19

to, you have to talk to a lot of people. Well,

49:21

but that's how some murders are solved. Yeah,

49:24

that's true too. Yeah. I mean,

49:26

sometimes there's just no evidence, especially

49:28

years later. Have you been able

49:30

to solve, like have you been hired and were

49:33

able to find a, who

49:36

did it? There were,

49:38

I've just been involved in three and

49:40

only one of them had a solution.

49:42

And I, I think it was, they

49:45

said that we didn't have anything to do

49:47

with it, but I think we did, but

49:49

they solved the murder of this woman's son.

49:51

And it was because of the infirm, it

49:53

was because we found a witness that they

49:55

had not found. And we spoke to

49:57

this witness, but because they were able to bring him in.

50:00

get more information out of him and

50:02

continue to talk to him, then

50:04

they were able to solve it. But I feel like

50:06

it was because of our, like if it wasn't for

50:08

us, they would have solved it. But the other two

50:10

that I worked on, they're still not solved. Yeah. I

50:13

ask because I, there's a

50:15

murder here that I might need

50:17

your help on. We're going to

50:23

take a quick commercial break. So on

50:25

that note, we'll be right back. This

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Visit max.com. You

51:01

did something unique as a PI.

51:04

You started, did you start on

51:06

TikTok or Instagram? I

51:08

think I started both. I started

51:10

on both platforms, but TikTok started

51:12

blowing up before Instagram did. And

51:15

when did you start sharing your PI

51:17

stories on there? So well,

51:19

what happened real quick was when I was

51:22

doing surveillance in my car for years and

51:24

years and years, I started playing with makeup

51:26

and it was just something like you, you're

51:29

literally bored to tears for hours. Sometimes it's

51:31

like 18, 20 hours of surveillance. So you're watching YouTube videos

51:33

and you're doing makeup and so I'd bring my makeup with

51:35

me. That's what I did to fill my days and play

51:37

with makeup. I got really good at it. Well

51:40

then over the course of several years, I just, you know,

51:42

I would try different makeup products and I saw this makeup

51:44

online that I thought was actually really stupid. And so I

51:46

was like, Oh, I got to try that just like every

51:48

other product. And I really liked it. Well, turns out it

51:50

was a direct sales company. So I start,

51:52

I joined this direct sales company thinking it was

51:54

just like affiliate marketing. I didn't know. So

51:57

then I, um, I get in with this company and now I

52:00

start like kind of liking it after hating it

52:02

for the first I really wanted to hate it

52:04

because I don't direct sales was gross To me

52:06

and so then I really actually started liking it

52:08

I liked the company and so I started

52:10

making videos because success leaves clues I see all

52:12

these other people making videos So I

52:15

started making videos and now I was selling the

52:17

makeup really well after having zero social media No

52:19

following whatsoever that people were buying this makeup from

52:21

me So I was like imagine if I had

52:23

if I was on more social media then I'd

52:25

get even more sales And so now it became

52:27

like a challenge now it became like something that

52:29

I've never done Didn't know it didn't think

52:31

I could do didn't think I wanted to do anyway

52:33

So I started realizing that I

52:36

was just sounding like a bunch of the other the other

52:38

reps for the company and I wanted to Do something different

52:40

so that was in January that I found this

52:42

company and in September Was when

52:45

I started telling PI stories cuz I was like, all

52:47

right, these stories are stupid No one's gonna think

52:50

this is funny But maybe if it's like funny

52:52

then it'll be something different than just boring makeup

52:54

videos, right? So I told a story my very

52:56

first PI story that I told was about a

52:58

woman who hired me to do surveillance on her

53:00

boyfriend Who was at their home while she

53:02

was out of town and she said

53:04

I just want to know what's going on I want

53:06

to know if this if that hoe is coming over

53:08

in her word So anyway, so there's I pull up

53:10

this guy's house It's like 11 o'clock at night and

53:12

there's a car an SUV backed into the driveway and

53:15

in order to find out who the car belongs So

53:17

I got to walk behind it get the tag number

53:19

So I was prepared to get out of my car

53:21

go walk up the driveway look behind the car and

53:23

get the tag number Well as I get out of

53:26

my car and I start walking that way this neighbor

53:28

comes out He's his garage was open, but I didn't

53:30

realize he was outside like dark and he's smoking He's

53:32

just what are you doing over there? And I'm like, uh Looking

53:36

for my cat and so then him and I

53:39

Start searching for this cat this imaginary cat and

53:41

he's like, well, what does it look like? So

53:43

then I start describing the cat I had in

53:45

second grade is orange and black cat his name

53:48

was Garfield And so but

53:50

I called him Felix cuz feline Felix and so

53:52

I was like this his name is Felix And

53:54

he's going here Felix and I'm going here Felix

53:56

and we're both looking under this car and meanwhile

53:58

I'm trying to like make my way

54:00

to the back of the car to like look for Felix but

54:02

then the guy looked back there and so I will start walking

54:04

back and he's like I already looked back there so

54:07

I could never get this freaking tag number and I just

54:09

I could never look behind the car

54:11

and so I can't I can't look at the

54:13

Venn number like I can't do anything because this

54:15

guy's watching me he's inside he's like I'm gonna

54:17

go make flyers for your cat we're gonna find

54:19

this animal and so we spend

54:21

like 30 minutes looking for this imaginary cat and

54:23

then finally he goes I'm gonna go inside I'm

54:25

gonna make it I'm gonna start making flyers for

54:28

you don't worry and he is like I'm like

54:30

thank you so much like I can't this page

54:32

is missing and so then he goes inside so

54:34

I rushed behind the car there's no tag on

54:37

the car I cannot I cannot

54:39

identify this vehicle right so

54:41

before I can get my flashlight out on my phone

54:44

to get the Venn number and take it down this

54:46

guy comes out and by this time I'm like it's

54:48

too suspicious like I can't risk it so

54:50

but anyways so that was the

54:52

the very first story that I told about was

54:54

that one and to me doing surveillance for as

54:57

long as I had it these

54:59

stories are not funny like they're just it's like once you

55:01

do something for so long it's not interesting anymore but everybody

55:04

told me oh you gotta tell these PI stories I'm like

55:06

man I was gonna care I was gonna listen and then

55:08

people actually thought it was funny and I was like alright

55:10

and then a couple people asked me about the makeup that

55:12

I was selling and I was like hey that's kind of

55:14

cool some people asking you know whatever and

55:17

so the rest was just literally history like

55:19

it just took off I just kept telling

55:21

more and more stories and when

55:23

I the tik-tok took off and then the Instagram

55:25

took off my the producer

55:28

of my podcast actually found me on tik-tok

55:30

and she's like oh my gosh I've been

55:32

dying to do like a private investigator style

55:34

podcast do you want a podcast and I'm

55:36

like I guess so like I

55:39

don't know what that entails but sure I guess and

55:41

it's just been a minute it's been

55:43

this amazing like a blow up of

55:45

just everything that's awesome so how long

55:47

when did you start your podcast the

55:49

podcast is gonna be a year old

55:51

this April Wow so you this is

55:53

all you blew up real quick really

55:56

really fast like I had I think January

55:58

of last year I had had,

56:01

by January of last year, I had told probably

56:03

like 20 something PI stories or something like that.

56:06

And my husband's birthday was January 23.

56:08

We went to Sonny's Barbecue is all

56:10

you can eat ribs and

56:12

his little car buddies and they go in there and they talk

56:15

cars and they eat all the ribs, they eat the restaurant out

56:17

of ribs every year, it's something they take pride in. I don't

56:19

know whatever. But anyways, I walked

56:21

into that restaurant, I was like 900 followers and

56:23

I walked out with 50,000 followers on Instagram. Because

56:26

my one once you watch one

56:28

video, you want to watch the rest. So it was

56:30

I had like 25 videos going viral

56:32

at the same time. Oh, wow.

56:34

And so it my following blew

56:36

up. And then that month,

56:38

I became a top seller in the company. And

56:41

I've never not been a top seller or a

56:43

top recruiter in this direct sales company that I

56:45

never realized I was good for

56:47

you. That's amazing. I love that.

56:49

It's been so fun. And I

56:51

love makeup so much. And I

56:53

always like I love I love

56:55

being on social media, because my

56:57

personality is just it suits

56:59

my personality just to and I've

57:01

never I don't know, growing up, I was ugly, fat,

57:04

grow, I never had friends. And so now I have

57:06

all these friends and like, you know, my customers and

57:08

people that follow me and we just connect about everything,

57:10

even not makeup stuff. And it's just, it's such a

57:12

cool group of women. And I love being someone that

57:15

has a platform where I can, you know, kind of

57:17

share my experience as a PI. A lot of women

57:19

have told me that they Oh, I've, you know, I've

57:21

looked into being a PI now, thank you for your

57:23

inspiration, or, oh, I feel so much prettier in my

57:26

makeup. And it's like, it feels really good to be

57:28

someone who's out there just like helping other women in

57:30

their career or their makeup, or something silly

57:32

that seems silly to you, you know,

57:34

right? I mean, I think with you,

57:37

a lot of women,

57:39

I've all I live my co host

57:41

and I have worked together for a

57:43

really long time. And when we were

57:45

journalists years ago, we always had like

57:48

a pipe dream of becoming of having

57:50

our own private investigator, little firm

57:53

or whatever, because we were like, we're really good

57:55

at getting information out of people. And this is

57:57

so fun. But you don't hear of a lot.

58:00

And you don't see a lot

58:02

of examples of women being

58:04

PIs. Because we're told we can't.

58:06

Right. And it's crazy. And

58:11

I like to,

58:15

with our platform,

58:17

I like to encourage women to

58:19

be in any job that

58:21

they want that gives

58:23

them satisfaction. But especially in the

58:26

legal and justice field, there's just

58:28

– women can make such

58:30

a huge difference. I've seen

58:32

so many cases that when a female

58:34

detective comes along, she just makes –

58:37

she just gets, like, different observations. And

58:40

she sees things different than a lot of

58:42

the boys. Yeah. And we need that. Like,

58:44

murder – there's murder cases unsolved everywhere.

58:47

So time to change

58:49

things up with the cops and, like, what

58:52

we think of the ideal police officer. And

58:55

maybe they can be – maybe

58:58

they can wear pink and have

59:00

pretty blonde hair and do makeup and

59:02

still be a good cop. Like, why

59:05

does our society think that we can't do that? When

59:08

you have – a lot of people think that,

59:10

oh, women, you know, a lot

59:13

of, like, a lot of the law

59:15

enforcement jobs are a lot

59:17

of men because it requires, like, you know,

59:19

this intimidation factor and all this stuff. But

59:21

what about the compassion? Like, if you solve

59:23

– if you're a detective and you're solving

59:26

a case just solely based on facts, right,

59:28

which is great. That's how an

59:30

investigation is completed. You have all the facts.

59:32

You have all the evidence. You put it

59:34

together. The way you find more facts and

59:36

evidence is when you're thinking with compassion and

59:38

you're thinking about, okay, what did these people

59:40

go through? Let me experience that for myself.

59:43

And I feel like women are really good at

59:45

that because we're more nurturing and more caring. And

59:47

so I feel like we have the ability to

59:49

bring something that maybe a man doesn't. And I'm

59:51

not saying that men aren't good at their jobs,

59:53

but I'm just saying that there is room for

59:55

everybody. And we all bring different things

59:58

to the table that maybe someone else doesn't. So

1:00:00

women, I think for when you add a

1:00:02

woman, it's just a different, she just adds

1:00:04

a different level of like compassion and nurturing

1:00:06

that helps to get more information. Yeah.

1:00:08

And just cares. A

1:00:11

lot of cases that I've come across, it's

1:00:13

like nobody gave a shit and

1:00:16

that's why nothing got solved. Like

1:00:18

nobody cared in this entire case.

1:00:21

And sometimes that's just a,

1:00:25

having compassion and actually caring is

1:00:27

also a skill that we have

1:00:30

women need to know that they can use. And

1:00:33

yeah, I would like to see

1:00:35

a rise in like women, police

1:00:37

officers. I know we've

1:00:39

seen a rise in female attorneys, but

1:00:42

I think the podcasting

1:00:44

and social media, the great

1:00:46

thing is that we

1:00:48

don't have to have Hollywood representing these types

1:00:50

of people to set an example and to

1:00:52

inspire other people. You can, we can just

1:00:55

do it now. Absolutely. And

1:00:57

I think that's huge with your platform. Well,

1:00:59

that's why I love what you do too,

1:01:01

because like as a woman,

1:01:03

I imagine that there was, I

1:01:06

don't know, it feels sexist, but like at

1:01:08

the same time, there's just something that you

1:01:10

as a woman probably contribute to your field

1:01:12

as opposed to a man. There's just, there's

1:01:15

just something a little bit softer, maybe a little

1:01:17

bit more understanding, a little bit more tender. And

1:01:20

although women can be like women are badasses, right?

1:01:22

But I feel like we also, we can do

1:01:25

that and we can kind of have that tenderness

1:01:27

that really helps us in our field, whatever that

1:01:29

is. And so there's just something we can bring

1:01:31

to it that, you know, that I think is

1:01:33

valuable. Right.

1:01:36

What is your advice to women

1:01:38

that want to get involved in

1:01:40

PI and want that as a

1:01:42

career? I think a

1:01:44

lot of people look at private investigation and like, oh my

1:01:46

gosh, how do you even do that? A lot of people

1:01:48

are like, they'll message me and they'll say, so how'd you

1:01:50

become a PI? And I go

1:01:52

to the Google machine, type in how do I

1:01:54

become a private investigator in and then put in

1:01:56

your state's name and it will literally tell you,

1:01:58

okay, you have to Like in Florida, it'll tell

1:02:01

you Florida Division of Licensing and Consumer, oh,

1:02:03

Mackenzie, Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services,

1:02:05

under the licensing, it'll tell you how to

1:02:07

get a CC license, which is like an

1:02:09

intern license, a C license, an agency license,

1:02:12

a manager license, like it'll tell you how

1:02:14

to get all these things. It is literally

1:02:16

right at your fingertips. Just type in, how

1:02:18

do I become a private investigator in and

1:02:20

then put your state in. You can, it

1:02:22

is so much easier than you think. Many

1:02:24

states don't even require a license. In Florida,

1:02:27

you just take a 40-hour course. I happen

1:02:29

to have a criminal justice degree, a

1:02:31

bachelor's degree in criminal justice, but they

1:02:33

don't require it. If you have any

1:02:35

law enforcement or military background, you probably

1:02:37

have to shoe in. So just Google

1:02:39

it and you can find so easily.

1:02:41

And women are needed in this field

1:02:44

and I think that's because people

1:02:46

just have, you tend to be less intimidating as

1:02:48

a woman, right? And it's kind of easier to

1:02:50

do your job sometimes. I also,

1:02:53

it does kind of maybe make things

1:02:55

a little more dangerous because people aren't

1:02:57

intimidated by you. So they're like, oh,

1:03:00

well, you know, you don't scare me. I don't want

1:03:02

to give you any information, but that's where, you know,

1:03:04

being a girl kind of comes in and you could

1:03:07

be just so innocent and I'm so sorry. I didn't

1:03:09

know. And then just get

1:03:11

your information, girl. I

1:03:13

love that. Well, Mackenzie,

1:03:15

this was amazing. I'm so glad you had me

1:03:17

on the show. Thank you so much. This

1:03:20

was wonderful. If you guys love true crime, which

1:03:22

obviously you do or you wouldn't be here. And

1:03:25

if you love Mandy Matney, which of course you

1:03:27

do, you might really like my podcast

1:03:30

is called The Dating Detectives. And you can

1:03:32

catch that. It comes out every Monday. We

1:03:34

have a new episode. Get it anywhere you

1:03:36

get your podcasts. It's more true crime light.

1:03:38

So it's not necessarily like the big dog

1:03:40

murders and stuff like Miss Mandy covers, but

1:03:43

we do a lot of like a

1:03:45

relationship based stuff we call like dogfish and you

1:03:47

know, liars, cheaters, conmen and relationships. So check

1:03:49

it out. You might really like it, especially if

1:03:51

you're in, if you love the true crime

1:03:54

space. I think our people will love that. It's

1:03:56

a good show. It's fun. And actually we've

1:03:58

had several fans say that. They've listened to your

1:04:00

podcast, so this is the, oh yay,

1:04:03

that's so exciting. It's an exciting

1:04:05

crossover. Yeah, I love that. And with

1:04:07

that, cups down. Cups down. Kupa

1:04:16

Justice is a LunaShark production created

1:04:18

by me, Nitti Matney, and co-hosted

1:04:20

by journalist Liz Farrell and attorney

1:04:22

Eric Bland. Learn more about our

1:04:24

mission and membership at lunasharkmedia.com. Interruptions

1:04:28

provided by Luna and Joe Pesky. Thanks

1:04:33

to State Farm for supporting this show

1:04:36

and helping our listeners protect their businesses

1:04:38

and lives like a good

1:04:40

neighbor. State Farm is there. Talk to

1:04:42

your local agent today.