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2:24

Hey, y'all. You know some people enjoy

2:26

composing their own music chord by

2:29

chord So

2:35

be sure to follow COJPOD for

2:37

all the latest updates on exciting

2:39

new guests, the Kaluchi case, and

2:41

more. On today's episode,

2:44

we will talk more about the Kaluchi case.

2:46

We have less than a week before the

2:48

trial begins on May 13th. If

2:51

you're interested in this case and

2:53

haven't already listened to last week's

2:55

True Sunlight podcast, I highly recommend

2:58

that you do. We have uncovered

3:00

a lot. Now it's

3:02

just a question of whether the

3:04

prosecution can do the case justice

3:06

this time around. We

3:08

also talk about the very disturbing and

3:10

heartbreaking case of Micah Miller, a 30-year-old

3:13

woman from Myrtle Beach who was found

3:15

dead a week and a half ago

3:17

in a state park in North Carolina

3:19

near the South Carolina border. Micah

3:22

had just filed for divorce from her

3:24

past her husband. John Paul, JP Miller,

3:26

who has a history of violence. There

3:30

are so many strange things with this case,

3:32

but mostly there are red flags. Micah

3:34

lived in fear of John Paul and even

3:36

told her family members that if she'd ever

3:39

been found with a bullet in her head,

3:41

that JP did this to her. We

3:43

have put out a bunch of voyas in this

3:46

case and we will be talking about it more

3:48

on this week's True Sunlight. But

3:50

today, you're basically getting our raw reactions

3:52

to the case and what we think

3:54

needs to happen to protect women after

3:57

their untimely deaths. Premium members

3:59

will get a little something extra.

4:01

Today, Eric talks about those

4:03

pesky liability waivers we all have to

4:05

sign from time to time. Do we

4:08

have to sign them? What happens if

4:10

we don't? What happens if we were

4:12

to scratch out part of the agreement

4:14

before signing it? All that and more.

4:16

Let's get into it. Cups

4:20

up. Cups up. Cups up.

4:22

Hey partners, how you doing? Doing

4:24

well. So Eric, tell us what

4:26

happened at this meeting that you

4:28

had with the Attorney General and

4:31

Sandy. That's been a long time coming. Yeah,

4:33

it has. I guess the genesis of it

4:36

was at the victim's rally that

4:38

we were at, I guess, in early April.

4:42

And the Attorney General saw Sandy and David

4:44

and Mandy and Sandy, you know, mentioned something

4:46

the Attorney General said, I'll be glad to

4:48

meet with you. And I guess it was

4:51

one of those offhand comments, you

4:53

know, the people say like, hey, let's go do lunch next

4:55

week. And you call the guy and you say, hey, let's

4:57

have lunch. He's like, I don't want

4:59

to have lunch with you. But you know,

5:01

the Attorney General said he'll be glad to

5:03

meet and we certainly held him to it

5:05

because we immediately notified him and said, hey,

5:08

we would like to meet. And so this

5:10

morning we met at the Attorney General's office

5:12

and there was a significant

5:15

number of important people there. I don't want

5:17

to name who was there in addition to

5:19

the Attorney General. But we

5:22

were told that it

5:24

is an absolute active

5:26

investigation and that

5:28

they are actively pursuing answers

5:32

for Sandy. They both, they all

5:34

to a person said they want

5:36

to give her peace. And Sandy

5:39

said it the same way. I want to

5:41

just find out what happened. I want to

5:43

have peace for what happened

5:45

to my son. The Attorney General

5:47

was very serious about finding an

5:49

answer for her. He does not

5:51

like the fact that Stephen

5:55

was killed in that manner and that they

5:57

don't have an answer. They

6:00

were clear to tell us that when

6:02

they took over, meaning sled in the

6:04

AG, it was essentially a cold case

6:07

because the highway department had it for six

6:09

years and they released the file.

6:13

They reiterated the same concerns we had

6:15

when they released the file to the

6:17

public that that was a chilling effect,

6:19

in essence, for

6:21

the potential investigation. They

6:25

didn't share much of the

6:27

granular details of their investigation other

6:30

than that they believe that they

6:32

will come to a point that they will

6:35

have an answer as to what happened. It

6:37

may not be enough for

6:39

criminal prosecution, but they

6:41

believe that they will get

6:43

an answer. I saw a list of 11 things

6:46

that they're going

6:48

to do. I take them

6:51

at their word and they

6:53

were receptive to what Sandy was

6:55

asking them. I

6:58

did ask them some poignant

7:01

questions about the tablet

7:03

and different things like

7:05

that. I'm

7:08

not sure what they found off the tablet, but

7:10

it wasn't enough that it would have

7:12

yielded anything and you gave me some

7:14

suggestions about

7:17

Craig's List and different things like that that

7:19

I passed on. They were

7:22

very welcoming to any information

7:24

that we can give or any

7:26

information that the public

7:28

can give, either through you, through

7:31

True Sunlight, or

7:34

directly to the AG. They're

7:36

committed to getting

7:38

answers. When they said that it was

7:40

a homicide in March

7:43

of 2023, that

7:45

word connotes a number of things. It could

7:47

mean a murder. It could

7:49

mean somebody who was

7:51

grossly negligent under the

7:53

influence of alcohol and caused

7:56

the death, or it could have

7:58

been somebody who was inattentive and didn't… mean

8:00

it at all, that they were just looking

8:02

the other way and didn't see Steven and

8:04

something happened. So it's a broad

8:07

spectrum of definition of death. When

8:10

we hear the word homicide, we

8:12

already think homicide occurred. That's a

8:14

murder. And they wanted me

8:16

to understand and

8:18

Sandy to understand that they're

8:20

not reaching any conclusions regarding the

8:23

word homicide. Well, I don't think we

8:25

ever did. I think we were pretty clear

8:27

that homicide can also mean a vehicular

8:29

situation. But did they mention, so

8:33

there's been a lot of confusion because it's been

8:35

reported that there were two people of interest that

8:38

had been developed in the case. And of course, those

8:40

are the two people who

8:42

appear in the final

8:44

pages of the case file, where the case

8:46

file ends. Did they

8:48

mention that there's any person, like did they say that they

8:50

have people of interest or what did they say about that?

8:53

They did not say that. They did not say

8:55

that they have any persons of interest. Yeah.

8:57

And I did, I believe, over a year ago. I took

8:59

it as murder with the way that it was being said

9:08

and the way that it was being reported. Yeah,

9:10

I'll be the first to admit because it wouldn't

9:13

have been in development if it

9:15

was still a homicide in that context. You know

9:17

what I mean? So

9:19

this has just all been very disappointing

9:21

and confusing because a year ago, it

9:24

seemed like they were on

9:26

a track. It

9:29

seemed like there was more developments

9:31

a year ago than there is

9:33

today. And that is highly, highly

9:35

concerning. I mean, I guess

9:38

we have to take the positive here. And

9:41

it's a great thing that, Eric,

9:43

you got that meeting to begin with for

9:46

Sandy. I think Sandy definitely

9:48

deserves that kind of face time with

9:50

important people. And I have not talked

9:53

to her following it, but I'm sure

9:55

she's greatly, greatly appreciative of just that

9:57

because that's all that she's wanted just based.

10:00

updates of what

10:02

they know, what they don't and what they're doing.

10:04

It was definitely not a blow off meeting,

10:07

Mandy, because there was one,

10:09

two, three, four, five, there was

10:12

six very important people in that

10:14

meeting. Some that came from across

10:16

town. And if it

10:18

was a blow off meeting, it would have been

10:20

five minutes with just an assistant, I just didn't,

10:23

I'd been in blow off meetings and you've been

10:25

in blow off meetings too. I didn't take it

10:27

as such, but I did take it as a

10:29

meeting that they don't have a lot to

10:33

say or show at this time. Right.

10:35

And I think that it, I

10:37

still believe that this case can

10:40

be absolutely cracked with one to

10:42

two people talking. And I believe

10:44

that one to two people

10:46

out there, maybe three who

10:48

knew what happened could absolutely change the

10:51

game. And so we are still begging

10:53

people to contact Sled,

10:55

contact us. Contact,

10:57

if you don't trust Sled, contact

10:59

us, but please, please, please contact

11:02

Sled in the attorney general's office.

11:05

This case is still ongoing. I

11:07

also want to be clear that the

11:09

people out there who knew what happened

11:12

and who are bearing

11:14

these secrets, they are not in the

11:16

clear by any means. And

11:18

the fact that all of these important people showed up to

11:20

this, that shows that. I

11:23

mean, this is still ongoing and that

11:25

is the good news. The bad news

11:27

is that it just seems

11:29

like we just have the,

11:32

it's not bad news, but we just

11:34

got to keep pushing. So I'm a

11:36

little, I have to say this,

11:38

and I think that this is something that I hope

11:41

makes it back to the AG's office and to Sled,

11:44

but you mentioned that there

11:46

was a chilling effect when the

11:48

state highway patrol released the case

11:50

file, right? So we

11:52

talked about that before on the show and

11:55

how that could be seen as a

11:57

strategy that was done, you know,

11:59

could. was that done on purpose to create

12:02

that chilling effect, right? Because it was a

12:04

very unusual move at the time and

12:06

it has actually had that effect. I do

12:08

think that the AG's office and Sled need

12:10

to change their tactic a little when it

12:12

comes to the investigation. So, we say, oh

12:14

yeah, there's people who know and those people,

12:16

you know, you might think that like the

12:18

rest of your life is going to be

12:20

lived and you're going to get away with

12:22

this. But, you know, I'll say

12:25

this, like cases get solved every day that are

12:27

50 years old. So, it's not going anywhere. Everybody's

12:29

going to talk at some point. But

12:32

that said, why aren't

12:34

the AG and Sled looking at

12:37

the, like do an investigation of

12:39

the investigation? Okay, so

12:41

let's look at it this way. When

12:43

the boat crash happened, there was, there

12:45

were accusations of this obstruction of justice,

12:47

right? And just how

12:49

things were diverted, how decisions were made, what

12:51

have you. That same thing

12:53

seems to have happened with the state

12:56

highway patrol, right? And we're

12:58

just, I'm just going off of that decision

13:00

to release that case file unredacted with

13:02

witnesses' names out there, with their

13:04

interviews out there, recordings of their

13:07

interviews. Why doesn't the

13:09

AG, like AG's office and Sled, why

13:11

aren't they looking into the potential of

13:14

obstruction of justice and go that route

13:16

and find out? Because if you start

13:18

at the top of, if something, and

13:21

I'm saying if there was obstruction of

13:23

justice here, won't that lead a breadcrumb

13:25

trail if it did exist to potentially

13:27

what happened that night? It

13:29

could, absolutely. You know, obstruction of justice

13:32

is really a great

13:35

charge when you're trying to figure

13:37

out the main crime. Because

13:41

it says that people are

13:43

actively trying to suppress information,

13:45

whether they're threatening others, whether

13:47

they're bribing others, whether it's

13:49

a quid pro quo not

13:51

to talk or say this.

13:55

That could happen. And it very well

13:57

may be, you know, look, Creighton's running

13:59

this investigation. Smart dude. And.

14:02

You know, We. Have to trust

14:04

him that he's going to see

14:06

this through the end. because you

14:08

know he said one thing You

14:11

know. They. Work methodically and it

14:13

may not be in the sequence that

14:15

you and I and Mandy want them

14:17

to work. For instance, they brought the

14:19

financial crimes against Alex for this out

14:21

of your case and they waited a

14:23

long time. Before. They brought

14:26

the murder charge and it's incremental

14:28

and we were very critical in

14:30

the fall of Twenty Twenty One

14:32

through Twenty Twenty Two of the

14:34

pace of what they were doing

14:36

and does he said basically trust

14:39

in the process on. They.

14:41

Have a process that they fall that's different

14:43

than the timelines that we want and the

14:45

sequence that we think they should do. I

14:47

did say and I name some names

14:50

of people that I. Believe.

14:52

Should be asked to. Do you

14:54

know anything? What? May have

14:56

happened to Steve and not of where you have

14:58

in a relationship with. I'm not. Did you kill

15:00

loan or were you in a car? Where? and.

15:03

But. You. Know. This.

15:05

Is a small area where so

15:08

that was a big time. Death.

15:11

Okay, that wasn't just and eighty eight

15:13

year old man fell off a tractor

15:15

and die. That. Was a nineteen

15:17

year old kid that was a seminal

15:20

death. If there's such a word, a

15:22

seminal Death. Paul and

15:24

Maggie were seminal. Desk Mallory

15:26

Beach was a seminal death.

15:29

Gory. Satterfield turned out to be a seminal

15:31

death, but not when it happened. But.

15:33

A ninety year old kid. Is.

15:36

A seminal death. And I

15:38

think in that community in that

15:40

school remember he was just that

15:42

a high school just about use

15:44

technical college. There. There's

15:46

a close knit group of people. He

15:49

may not have been in the group

15:51

of people that knows, but enough of

15:53

people didn't talk and I I honestly

15:55

believe that. The. there are

15:57

people carrying around the knowledge of what happens

16:00

And they're just not sharing it. And I

16:02

think there are law enforcement officers who are

16:04

carrying the knowledge of what might have gone

16:07

down in terms of decisions that were made

16:09

behind the scenes to further investigate, not

16:11

further investigate, to release the whole case

16:13

file to the public and expose the witnesses. So

16:17

I do think if they're not already looking

16:19

into that, I think that that's a tactic that

16:22

they should explore. Start from

16:24

the, you know, start from the other end.

16:26

It's not necessarily an expectation I have of a

16:28

timeline. It's just obviously the old way isn't working.

16:30

So let's come up with a new way. Let's

16:33

look at, let's try a different trail

16:35

where breadcrumbs can lead us. And I

16:37

think if we're going to trust anyone, it's

16:39

Creighton Waters. So I don't think it's really

16:42

a trust issue. It's just more

16:44

a question of whether they're going to approach

16:46

this from a different angle. There

16:49

are plenty of law enforcement officers who have

16:51

retired since Steven died nine years

16:54

ago. Plenty of law

16:56

enforcement officers who have retired. There are

16:58

also plenty who have gone on TV

17:00

shows saying that something was wrong with

17:03

the investigation, but not specifically saying like

17:05

who was pressuring them, what was going

17:07

on? Like

17:09

start there. Start with those officers who have

17:12

gone on all the documentaries and seen

17:14

what was the pressure,

17:16

what was going on in the investigation. Here's

17:20

the reality though. By defining

17:22

it as a cold case, it's not

17:24

at the front of the list

17:26

of cases that they're going to probably

17:29

devote all their resources

17:31

and time. We

17:33

have a drug problem in our

17:35

state. We have fentanyl

17:37

coming into this state. We

17:40

have environmental polluting going on.

17:42

Things that are touching people

17:45

today. Right now, Steven's death

17:47

touches us, touches our listeners,

17:50

and touches Sandy. But

17:52

it's a death that already occurred.

17:54

But when we have things like

17:57

fentanyl taking place and current investigation.

18:00

the Guatturi crimes, you know what I'm

18:02

saying? And even though

18:04

they didn't say Stephen is not number one

18:06

in the list, I think by

18:08

nature of being a cold case, it's never

18:10

going to be number one on the list

18:13

like Alex and Maggie and Paul. I would

18:15

ordinarily agree with you on that, but here's the

18:17

thing. This case is one they

18:19

chose to take. They chose it.

18:22

They said that this was important to

18:24

them. They have taken a bow

18:26

before they had something to take a bow about

18:28

in some ways. I'm not talking about necessarily the

18:30

AG's office alone. I

18:32

think that this is a case that

18:35

yes, it's just one boy, one, one case, one situation.

18:41

This case is here now because of

18:43

a failure of the system. So

18:47

I think that this is different. I don't think it's

18:49

just a cold case. I don't think it's just your

18:51

ordinary, they ran into a brick

18:53

wall. The brick wall was built in front of them

18:55

and that's, that's always going to

18:57

be in my position on it. The brick wall is built in

18:59

front of them. They didn't hit a wall. The wall hit them.

19:01

So I think they have an obligation.

19:04

They have an obligation just to follow this through.

19:06

I hear you. Liz, what is the definition of a

19:08

cold case? So a cold case is generally

19:10

seen as an old case, right? Because when you

19:13

hear about it in the news, it's usually these

19:15

cases from the, you know, 1980, 1950s, whatever. But

19:19

a cold case is just simply means when

19:21

a law enforcement officer or sorry, an investigator

19:23

has run out of the leads. So a

19:25

case can go cold almost right away. If

19:27

you, if you don't have, you know, once

19:30

you get your forensics back, once you have

19:32

interviewed all the witnesses and what have you.

19:34

It loses its pulse is what you're saying.

19:36

Yeah, essentially. You seem upset, Mandy.

19:39

Why are you not upset? You're frustrated.

19:41

What's your frustration about? The

19:45

whole thing is just frustrating. I

19:47

think everybody in journalism and as

19:49

in police work and lawyers, they

19:52

all have the one case that haunts them. And this is

19:54

it for me. This is the one that like I, I

20:00

feel stuck in,

20:02

and I feel like I can't

20:04

move on from, into anything else

20:06

without getting answers in this case.

20:09

And we have tried and tried and

20:11

tried, and it's just

20:13

extremely frustrating. And it's extremely

20:16

frustrating with how

20:18

much we know this hurts Sandy and how

20:20

much we know that this hurts

20:22

the family. And

20:25

I don't want to go too hard on

20:27

the Attorney General's office, but I will say

20:29

that it is frustrating when I'm seeing his

20:31

Twitter account and he's clearly prioritizing

20:33

a lot of political aspirations

20:35

and a lot of political

20:38

endeavors over just straight up

20:40

murder cases and over public

20:43

safety. And we'll talk about that

20:45

in a minute with the Kaluchi

20:47

case and his office's handling of

20:49

that. But yeah, I'm just really

20:52

frustrated. And we'll talk

20:54

about Kaluchi after the break. How

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23:17

So, Eric, yeah, we're frustrated. I mean,

23:19

I don't want to hurt people's feelings

23:21

and obviously we trust Creighton. We

23:24

know if anyone's going to follow through, it's going

23:27

to be him. But like Mandy said, the attorney

23:29

general, I get it, like the attorney general position

23:31

is a political one. And, you know, that's their

23:33

kind of all for one and one for all

23:35

when it comes to the party lines. But

23:38

it's sort of hard for us to understand

23:41

how that's justified when it comes to

23:43

you're trying to solve cases

23:45

outside of the state almost. Or like you're

23:48

like jumping in these fights that are

23:50

national instead of at the state level.

23:52

So, I don't know. Right, and I

23:54

don't think it should be a political

23:56

position. I think that it's really hard

23:58

for us to understand that. It's really

24:00

weird that an attorney general has to decide.

24:02

I absolutely agree with you. Right. I

24:05

think that, and while I think it's very weird

24:07

that our attorney general has to be either Republican

24:09

or Democrat because the law should be the law

24:11

and they should be focused

24:13

on things happening in our state, not things

24:16

that are aligning with national political parties that

24:18

have no interest of what is going on

24:20

in the state of South Carolina. And

24:23

it's just extremely frustrating and I think that

24:25

that's an example of it

24:27

right now. We

24:30

just keep coming across

24:32

cases where, and the other thing

24:34

I'm frustrated with, I'll continue

24:36

this thought, the other thing that I'm really

24:38

frustrated with is just the system as a

24:40

whole. I'm very frustrated.

24:42

I know that they're trying. I know

24:44

Creighton is trying really hard and I'm

24:47

very, very thankful for his work, but

24:49

I also understand that there

24:51

are not a lot of resources in

24:53

the attorney general's office. I think there

24:56

are enough and I don't know

24:58

how they're being dedicated. I don't know how

25:00

many are being dedicated for all of these

25:02

national lawsuits because every other day we see

25:04

that Alan Wilson is suing Joe

25:07

Biden for something, et cetera, et cetera.

25:09

And it really doesn't have to do

25:11

with the local core issues and the

25:13

crime in our state. The attorney general

25:16

should be managing the crime

25:18

in our state and I don't think that

25:20

the position is doing that. It's just way

25:22

more political. However, how

25:24

about managed prosecutors? Because you look at

25:26

the Kooluche case was, BAG's office will

25:28

tell you over and over again, they

25:30

don't do murder cases, right? They don't

25:32

do homicides. They do more

25:35

child exploitation, human trafficking, like

25:38

larger scale issues that involve multiple

25:40

ponies. So why are

25:42

they taking a case? I mean, fine,

25:44

you have to take a case because

25:47

the prosecution in the circuit is recusing

25:49

itself, but it would seem to me

25:51

that maybe that's a problem. The AG

25:53

has authority over these individual prosecutor's offices.

25:56

If they can't handle these murder cases,

25:58

for instance, like the... The

26:00

14th Circuit can't handle Seidens' case, so obviously

26:02

it has to go to the AG's office.

26:05

But maybe it's time for a special

26:07

prosecutor, too. I mean, maybe they give

26:09

it to David Pascoe or something, you

26:11

know? Somebody who can have

26:14

a little bit more focus on it or to

26:16

follow through with it. I don't like the idea

26:18

of Sandy being told that there's more important cases

26:20

because they chose to take it. –

26:23

Cases that are more urgent. –

26:25

Okay, so urgent. I just don't like her being

26:27

told. I mean, if that was the sense that

26:29

she walked away from that meeting, is that

26:32

there's more urgent cases than Stevens, then that's

26:34

not the message I like coming from

26:36

that. – Urgent to come up out of

26:38

the woodwork that you

26:40

don't anticipate. – Oh, gotcha. – That's

26:42

what they were saying. They're not pushing

26:44

Stevens' case off. I don't want that

26:47

to be what you

26:49

walk away with it from. But there

26:51

was a realization that this is an

26:53

older case and that, you

26:55

know, there are emergency things that pop

26:58

up that require a lot of different

27:00

things. This was a cold case. That's

27:02

how they're defining it. And

27:04

you know, there's a lot of people don't want it

27:06

to be solved. I'm sure there's a lot of people

27:08

that don't want this case to be solved, right? I

27:10

mean, in the low country. But

27:13

I didn't find in that room that there were people that

27:15

didn't want that to be solved. I found

27:17

in that room that there was a genuine intent

27:19

to see a resolution of this case.

27:21

– Yeah. This is hard, Eric,

27:23

because there's so much going on, I think, with the

27:25

AG's office in our realm right now. So

27:28

you know, last week we had sort

27:30

of maybe the most disappointing – disappointed

27:33

I've ever been in Alan Wilson's

27:35

office. We have been

27:38

reporting for quite some time that

27:40

the AG's office didn't seem

27:42

to know where Michael Kaluchi

27:44

was, meaning that his bond

27:46

conditions, as they stated them

27:48

to us, could not possibly have existed that

27:50

way, because he didn't live where

27:53

they told us he was under house

27:55

arrest. And right as we

27:57

were finishing up the episode of True Sunlight last week

27:59

–. We found out from

28:01

a source that Michael is not on

28:03

house or us and in a isn't

28:05

soft on an ankle monitor which is

28:08

something that we came to the cheese

28:10

office with an ass in several different

28:12

ways because we believed him to be

28:14

on an ankle monitor. So. For.

28:16

Them to give us misinformation and then let

28:18

us run with it. For. Weeks on end.

28:20

Was his bond modified? Did they didn't

28:22

know ago? His bond with modified in

28:24

two thousand and eighteen during the trial

28:26

date the Pilot: Instead of having him

28:28

in the holding cell overnight, they gave

28:30

him an ankle monitor and allowed him

28:33

to stay at a nearby hotel with

28:35

Andy Savage such doubtless had been assigned

28:37

know ah night at the. Bar. Fun

28:39

Fun Fun Room service!

28:43

Or don't. Let about less about my

28:45

gray. Of them

28:47

fell out again and imagine there are worse

28:50

scenario is getting stuck with your client and

28:52

and vice versa. But would you do that?

28:54

Eric. Know. Would you say let's

28:56

go on? Yes! I. Am know, I

28:58

know, I just yes, I've had clients

29:00

that are my friends and civil cases

29:02

yes But in criminal cases now I

29:05

I think you gotta. Have a

29:07

line of demarcation that you don't break. You

29:09

eat, you don't want to let your shirt

29:11

down in front of them. and they shouldn't

29:13

let their shared down in front of you.

29:15

There has to be some clear wall between

29:18

the two two of you. So, and he's

29:20

a pro. He? Yeah, yeah, maybe they were

29:22

saying the same hotel, but I'm not sure

29:24

they were staying in the same room and

29:26

Grand Do. and that's why I'm I'm picturing

29:28

Andy with a big long sleeping cap on

29:31

and submitting Michael and and nice. But

29:34

as. i

29:36

guess the question i have for you

29:39

though is is it normal for an

29:41

attorney to be seen as sort of

29:43

the i don't want to see baby

29:45

sitter but sort of like in charge

29:48

of where their client is staying know

29:50

and i'll stop because now right because

29:52

evoke hulu t from what i understand

29:55

what sources tell me if he called

29:57

it the andes office according to my

29:59

sources and said that he

30:01

wanted Michael Colucci out of his house.

30:04

And this is in 2016, and I

30:06

just don't know what Andy, why is

30:08

that Andy's responsibility? I get that he's

30:11

being paid, but that just doesn't

30:13

seem like a lawyer's responsibility. So

30:16

you're not held personally accountable if

30:18

your client doesn't

30:20

adhere to bond conditions

30:23

or doesn't wear the ankle monitor

30:25

regularly or things like that. No, no,

30:28

unless, you know, and a client does have the

30:30

right to always meet with an attorney, even

30:33

if he's under, or she's under house arrest and

30:35

can come to the attorney's office. And then there's

30:38

exceptions for counseling

30:40

and medical appointments. I

30:44

will say this, that Andy

30:47

is an unusual lawyer in

30:50

that he invests a ton

30:52

of himself in his cases. He's not a

30:54

guy that takes on a lot

30:56

of cases. And when he takes it on like

30:58

the Michael Slager case, that was a case that

31:01

certainly wasn't popular. And

31:03

he fought so hard for Michael

31:06

and he genuinely liked

31:08

Michael and genuinely liked his

31:10

wife and was so scared

31:12

for the family because

31:14

they were getting death threats. There

31:17

was death threats coming everywhere, from every

31:19

angle on lawyers, on investigators, on the

31:21

family. And I

31:24

know that Andy cared enough that

31:27

he made sure that Michael and his family

31:29

were safe. So Andy's that

31:31

unusual lawyer. He really, because he

31:33

takes on these difficult cases, he

31:39

has strong feelings for his clients in a good way.

31:42

That makes sense. Yeah, that does make

31:44

sense. I know that that case affected

31:46

him deeply when he didn't

31:48

get the sentencing that he had hoped

31:50

for his client federally. No, not

31:52

from Judge Norton. No, not at all.

31:54

Yeah, yeah. So with Colucci,

31:56

though, The disappointing thing

31:59

is that we were given... Listen for me said

32:01

after we came to them with craft information

32:03

because our what we were told was that

32:05

the bond conditions that were sad during the

32:08

trial which is that he would be on

32:10

an ankle monitor. That

32:12

those still stood, that he had an

32:14

ankle monitor currently and we were told

32:16

by the age is Us Up that

32:19

wasn't the case and that he was

32:21

on house arrest and that he was

32:23

at his parents' house and so this

32:25

whole time we've been you know those

32:27

are sack that were easily disproved. But

32:30

sister find out like a week

32:32

before the trial that this person

32:34

was on ankle monitor. I guess

32:36

people might wonder why that is

32:38

significant, Why that's important. If you're

32:41

a victim or member of assembly

32:43

who had somebody or die violently

32:45

and the defendant in that case

32:47

is out on bond he has

32:49

and in jail awaiting trial, you

32:51

are always waiting for the other

32:53

shoe to drop. Because.

32:55

There is violence involved. granted me on

32:57

Michael for she says he didn't do

33:00

that. Said he's innocent where have you

33:02

but does it and Siri well may

33:04

believe that he dead as to list

33:06

outlay for so long. We're talking about

33:09

nine years now and six years since

33:11

the first child without. Knowing

33:13

what the conditions that as bond or

33:15

for without understanding that he was being

33:17

kept track of ostensibly because we know

33:19

that system sucks. That's just not. That's

33:22

not the way it should. Be for

33:24

victims Scholars A big difference between house arrest

33:26

an ankle monitoring house arrest you're sure did

33:28

somebody is in their house age but some

33:30

of these on like a minor. you're gone,

33:33

the shop. it. On. Whole

33:35

Foods or you're shopping at Publix and

33:37

you'd walk down the aisles and there

33:39

he is. So that's scary year. Charleston's

33:42

not that big. It's Yes, it's a

33:44

a big city in in the terms

33:46

of South Carolina, but you can run

33:48

into people twice in one day. Both.

33:51

In West Ashley in a male pleasant

33:53

or downtown. And. You know, So.

33:56

That scary for victim's family.

33:59

Or. I think the scary thing

34:02

that we have found is over and

34:04

over again with a Bow and Turner

34:06

End it. Case in the with this

34:08

case is that there really isn't a

34:10

system monitoring these people and monitoring his

34:12

ankle monitor is like there's no it

34:15

it. Just because there's a piece of

34:17

plastic on somebody his ankle doesn't mean

34:19

that there is somebody twenty four seven

34:21

making sure that they're not at the

34:23

victims house or making sure that the

34:26

the victim as being alerted when they're

34:28

near. There's really nothing like that. Going

34:30

on, it's justice. It seems

34:32

like a protocol. That's a

34:34

company. right? It's a company

34:36

re private. It's not

34:38

raining to poor breed. Which is

34:41

insane. A ride on profit from it,

34:43

right? They contract with local

34:45

law enforcement Solicitor's office to

34:47

provide a service and it's

34:50

one person. Probably.

34:52

In that shift would say it's

34:54

a ten o'clock This o'clock in

34:56

the morning monitoring he'll three hundred

34:58

people. Play. It. But there's

35:00

also no incentives. I have no incentive

35:02

to call it out when somebody is

35:04

violating bearer. Bonds

35:06

and. Then they

35:09

lose. That guy goes to jail and

35:11

they lose a customer. Hundred.

35:13

And thirty five dollars a week or one eight was

35:15

at one seventy five a week or something about is

35:17

a hero up from some people to lot of money.

35:20

For their customers, the sake, of

35:22

course there's I don't wanna lose

35:24

a cancer rate like when Bolland

35:27

Turner violated his sixty different times

35:29

and it was only after Sarah

35:31

Forward and Chloe Best parents and

35:33

several people made several complaints that

35:35

they realize how many times that

35:38

he live in just because people

35:40

kept seeing him and public and

35:42

people kept seeing and then these

35:44

different spots is that they notice

35:46

like no one's really looking at

35:48

their and he was. by he

35:50

violated it over sixty times and even

35:53

after that they didn't they gave him

35:55

a plea deal and did nothing with

35:57

that like there was no repercussions for

35:59

that whatsoever I just think,

36:01

I mean, we keep screaming about these

36:03

things over and over because we just

36:06

keep seeing like these big flashing lights

36:08

with the justice system. And this is

36:10

a huge one of there is a

36:13

giant disconnect between the ankle monitoring system

36:15

and the justice system and actual public

36:17

safety and people, keeping people safe. I

36:20

feel like it's almost a huge, it

36:22

is, it's a huge disservice to victims

36:24

to tell people, oh, they're out on

36:26

bond, but they're on an ankle monitor

36:30

when that's just a piece of plastic.

36:32

That doesn't really mean anything at all

36:34

except for the only, the

36:37

only thing that it could do is

36:39

that if that person committed a crime,

36:41

they might be able to walk back

36:43

the GPS and see where, where

36:45

that person was during the crime maybe. But

36:49

it's, it's worth it. I've definitely seen it,

36:52

Mandy, where a guy on an ankle monitor

36:54

was in the area of where a murder

36:56

happened on Hilton Head. And

36:59

I mean, that seems like a slam dunk,

37:01

right? You're like, oh, we got the

37:03

guy who's out on bond for murder

37:05

and now there's another murder and they

37:07

had beef and it was not enough

37:09

to get prosecutors interested in that. I

37:11

mean, I see him all the time. You

37:13

go in the summer, you know,

37:16

to a convenience store, pump a gas or

37:18

you go to a fast food restaurant and

37:20

you're waiting in line and people are wearing

37:23

shorts. You know, somebody's got an

37:25

ankle bracelet monitor on. What does that mean?

37:27

You know, some people like

37:30

when Greg Leone had an ankle bracelet, it

37:32

was to house and to work. And,

37:36

you know, he wasn't allowed to go

37:38

to Chick-fil-A and stand in the line. You're not

37:40

allowed to do that. When,

37:42

when you are under house arrest

37:44

or with exceptions for work and

37:47

your attorneys, you can't make a break for

37:49

Dunkin Donuts. You could call up and say,

37:51

look, I got a flat tire. I got

37:53

to go to Nuddles and get my tire

37:56

plugged or whatever. But you just can't stop

37:58

and get ice cream at Pelicans. you

38:00

know, but you see people do that and you wonder how

38:02

are they doing that? But if

38:05

you do, I think like

38:07

Greg Leon, he obviously had attorneys who

38:10

were like, you cannot do listen, you

38:12

cannot do this, it could compromise your

38:14

entire case, blah blah blah and I'm

38:16

sure he was smart enough to understand

38:18

that. The problem is, is

38:21

there's lots of people that

38:23

just like Bowen Turner who just they

38:25

hear one thing, a set of directions

38:28

and they do what they want to

38:30

do and I have never known anybody

38:32

who was on an ankle monitor, I will

38:35

admit and I didn't know a

38:37

whole lot about the system until the Bowen Turner

38:39

case and silly me, I

38:41

thought that it would be something like,

38:44

oh, if you go to McDonald's, then it's going to

38:46

be like beep beep beep beep beep

38:48

and then it beeps in the

38:50

police station, right? Beeps in the police

38:52

station, beep beep beep and then the police

38:55

dispatch somebody and then they come and get

38:57

you and put you in jail. That's what

38:59

I've done and it's nothing

39:01

like that at all, unfortunately

39:04

and again, the technology

39:06

exists for that to

39:08

be possible. The technology

39:10

is all there. We have AI, Mandy,

39:12

like let's get a robot on this,

39:15

like let's get somebody to analyze this.

39:17

I can tell where somebody just from

39:19

their phone had lunch yesterday, we should

39:22

be able to have an

39:24

AI tell us that this is the

39:26

printout of this person's GPS

39:29

coordinates and these are not within the

39:31

scope of where he was supposed to

39:33

be. I had a case in Greenville

39:35

where a guy who was

39:37

an ankle bracelet on Columbia couldn't leave Columbia

39:39

proper, went to Greenville and murdered somebody. How

39:42

did that happen? And he was there

39:44

in Greenville for two weeks. He was

39:47

in Greenville for two whole weeks and

39:49

he was not supposed to leave Columbia proper. But

39:52

we ask how that happened. I mean, it's because

39:54

there's no system in place to stop it. How

39:57

does it happen? All these guys talk. to

40:00

each other and they're like, oh yeah, I was able to

40:02

go to McDonald's and I was able to go to Greenville

40:04

and I went to North Carolina

40:06

last week and blah, blah, blah and they

40:08

haven't done anything. And that stuff gets around

40:10

and it's very obvious why this is happening.

40:12

The problem is, do we have legislators to

40:15

fix it and do they care enough? No,

40:17

because they're the ones who created it. They're

40:20

the ones who prioritize private profit. Right,

40:22

and they're making money off of it. Mm-hmm.

40:24

Gross. It's just so gross. But I guess

40:26

with Koji, I mean, I think he's getting

40:29

off easy because he has just the one

40:31

ankle monitor. You know,

40:33

Porell Russell, he had the two. He

40:36

had double. And he had double.

40:38

But do you remember Russell talking

40:41

about like what a headache it

40:43

was to charge both his legs?

40:46

I was thinking about that because, you know,

40:48

from what I understand about some people who

40:50

are on ankle monitors is they

40:53

might use that charging time to go to

40:55

someplace where they shouldn't be, like a bar

40:57

or some sort of transaction that might be

40:59

illegal, that kind of thing. Don't you have

41:01

to charge it by plugging it in the wall and then

41:03

plugging it into the monitor? Oh,

41:06

sorry. Yeah, they, sorry. They let it die. Yes.

41:09

Sorry. Yes, they let it die. Correct. Am

41:11

I bad? Yes. Yes. There's some people

41:13

who let their monitors routinely

41:16

die. And they wait to see

41:18

if that phone call comes in from

41:20

the monitoring company. And if they give

41:22

you an hour or two hours before

41:25

they call, I've seen this, then

41:27

they know they have that window and

41:30

they go do things during

41:32

that downtime. It's

41:34

not an instantaneous phone call that you

41:36

get like, Hey, Mandy, your monitor just

41:38

went off, you know, and I'm calling

41:41

you 30 seconds later.

41:43

Right. And it's also not like we

41:46

were talking about. It's not like there's

41:48

an alarm and the police are called

41:50

and immediately dispatched to your house. It's

41:52

a phone call that you can probably

41:55

not answer for a while and

41:57

still get away with it being

41:59

off. for a while and that's again

42:02

it's just it's worthless and until we we

42:05

fix it and until we have actual repercussions

42:08

to if you violate

42:10

your your ankle monitor and

42:14

if you are if you're caught it

42:16

should just say you go back to jail straight

42:21

to jail if you're caught if you're

42:23

caught doing anything that we told

42:26

you not to do you go back straight

42:28

to jail because you're on bond here and

42:30

it is a privilege that you are on

42:33

bond and we can revoke that at any

42:35

time and I feel like our government just

42:37

does not use that enough. You know

42:39

they sure don't there's just such a dichotomy

42:41

between what legislators say they want they want

42:44

to be tough on crime they want to

42:46

protect the public but really what they

42:49

want is to help their friends profit

42:51

and to pretend that the system is

42:53

working just fine the way it is. And

42:56

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42:58

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45:15

So are we gonna talk about the wacky preacher? I think

45:17

we have to. Yes, also known

45:19

as the Micah Miller case. We

45:22

have to talk about it. It's really,

45:25

really sad. I mean, I've

45:27

been diving into this case for

45:29

all of seven hours so bear

45:32

with me on details here but

45:34

I've already gotten a couple sources

45:36

and already have

45:38

my bearings about it and

45:41

it's just a really horrifically

45:43

sad situation. Her name was

45:45

Micah Miller. She is like

45:48

me from Kansas and eventually moved to

45:50

South Carolina. She was 30 years old

45:53

and she was married to a preacher

45:55

named JP Miller who

45:58

was the preacher. at

46:00

Solid Rock Church in Myrtle Beach

46:03

and on April 27th a couple weeks ago, Micah

46:10

was found dead of at least one

46:12

gunshot wound that we know of in

46:15

a park in Lumberton, North

46:17

Carolina which is a little

46:19

bit north of Myrtle Beach. And

46:22

I think the biggest red flag

46:24

is that authorities... there's

46:26

also breaking news in this case,

46:28

the medical examiner has said that

46:30

her wound was self-inflicted and that's

46:33

why we're involved here because

46:35

it seems like there needs to

46:37

be a lot more than a wound

46:40

to tell if somebody else

46:42

was involved. By all indications

46:45

if somebody was leaving breadcrumbs saying

46:47

this is the person who is

46:49

going to murder me, that is

46:52

what Micah did. She

46:54

left a trail of breadcrumbs

46:56

including she was filing for

46:58

divorce already and that was

47:00

official. Both of her

47:02

siblings have filed affidavit saying that there

47:05

was abuse in the marriage, that he

47:07

was an abusive husband and

47:09

that she was worried for her safety, she was

47:11

worried for her life and she even went to

47:13

the extent to saying that if I'm

47:16

found with a bullet in my head it is not

47:18

me, it is him.

47:20

And it's just heartbreaking that

47:22

this woman left so many crumbs

47:25

and did so many things and

47:28

still it seems like authorities

47:30

are pushing back a bit.

47:33

The narrative is it doesn't

47:35

look like a suicide and all

47:38

surrounding evidence points to

47:40

a murder and points

47:42

to him being the

47:44

number one suspect. Well let's break

47:46

this down. I mean to suicide they

47:49

would have to say that she had

47:51

gunpowder residue on her hand

47:54

and that's how they must have determined

47:57

it was self-inflicted because I can put a

47:59

gun god forbid. up to your head and

48:01

shoot you and drop the gun

48:03

and I have a rubber glove on and then

48:05

I put your fingerprints on it, but

48:08

you won't have gunpowder residue on it. Or I

48:10

could hold your hand up and do it, then

48:12

you could have gunpowder residue on it. The

48:15

thing that really stuck out

48:17

to me was he proceeded

48:20

from the pulpit to talk

48:22

about her alleged mental problems.

48:24

That no one

48:28

in the parish knew that

48:31

she was – God forbid he

48:33

said she committed, tried to commit suicide

48:36

a number of times that she was

48:38

committed. What husband would publicly talk about

48:40

that, about their wife? I mean,

48:42

that to me was fitting into

48:45

the narrative that it was a self-inflicted

48:47

killing because she had all these mental

48:49

problems. Right. And I mean,

48:51

I think the biggest thing that I –

48:53

the biggest red flag that I've seen so

48:55

far is that he announced to the entire

48:57

church the next day that

49:00

his wife was dead because

49:02

of suicide and that she had

49:04

all these mental health problems. And

49:07

that was very not only strange to

49:09

do – to announce it in that

49:11

way, but at that time, it seems

49:13

like authorities had not ruled it as

49:16

a suicide. Right. So what husband, if

49:19

you truly care about your wife in any

49:21

way, shape, or form, would be

49:23

so quick to announce that it's suicide

49:25

and not be worried and say,

49:28

I don't know

49:30

why she was up there. I don't know what – I

49:33

hope that they investigate this, and I hope they

49:35

find out what happened to her. I'm not sure

49:37

if it was a suicide or if she was

49:39

murdered, but I want people – I want answers.

49:42

I want answers. Right. That's the normal

49:44

thing. That investigation takes place.

49:47

Right, but he did the opposite of that, which

49:50

is – and then, Liz, what did he say

49:52

when he stood up before

49:54

everybody? He told everyone to stand.

49:56

So he said that he had an announcement to make

49:58

and that he wanted everyone to stand. be quiet and

50:00

that they should stand up and

50:02

he said that he wanted to say

50:04

this and then have them leave and

50:06

not talk about it. So

50:09

essentially it's he didn't want any reaction

50:11

from them he instructed them that as

50:13

well and then he went on to

50:16

announce her death and

50:19

there's a couple of things here. Yeah if my

50:22

wife God forbid took her

50:24

life yesterday I'm not on the

50:27

pulpit tomorrow guys I'm sorry I'm gonna

50:29

have to ask a junior preacher to

50:31

take over I'm gonna be with

50:33

my kids and I'm gonna be mourning I

50:35

mean it's the strangest reaction to lose your

50:38

wife like that to say

50:40

I'm gonna pitch baseball the next day you know

50:42

what I'm saying? Right so I think it's

50:44

hard because you know I think obviously our

50:46

first like our entry into any case is

50:48

just like how the person reacted

50:51

after something like this happened and comparing

50:53

it to how we would or how

50:55

the normal person would and right

50:58

all that Alex and we're and I think a

51:00

lot of people are right in their assumptions about

51:02

people sometimes like that's an odd thing to do

51:04

after you found out that your wife died what

51:06

have you but I

51:08

think there's some bigger issues that we need

51:11

to talk about in terms because obviously like

51:13

the medical examiner has now ruled it a

51:15

suicide or you know that she took her

51:17

own life like you said Eric gun shot

51:20

residue like on your hands could

51:22

be telling but like you said it's not

51:24

also telling like if somebody's holding

51:27

a gun to your chest or to

51:29

your head or something and and you

51:32

know making you do that it makes you

51:34

wonder if they they jumped I don't

51:36

know like I hate to say it's because I don't

51:38

know enough about the case to say that I believe

51:40

the husband did this but what

51:42

worries me is that generally speaking in

51:45

cases where there is a pattern or

51:47

at least an inkling that there was

51:50

some domestic violence occurring that

51:52

there's a divorce in the works Anything

51:54

like that I Feel like there

51:56

needs to be some measure for

51:58

investigators? No matter. After what state

52:01

it is that they need to stop

52:03

what they're doing and look at this

52:05

case as any sort of other investigation

52:07

not just immediately say suicide because with

52:10

the Clergy case I think what we

52:12

lost in the investigation comes from Michael

52:14

Fluid. She be able to just say

52:17

that my wife killed or south and

52:19

then that law enforcement comes onto the

52:21

scene With that in mind and varied

52:24

see things don't get done because in

52:26

their mind this is Dave been told

52:28

it was a suicide so. When

52:30

you know that there's a history of

52:32

violence or that there's a divorce in

52:35

the works or in Michael Pooches case,

52:37

at least some evidence that there was

52:39

some source struggle or perhaps a site

52:41

before no matter what he says happened

52:43

at least you look at that. The

52:45

evidence as their and can say something

52:47

might have gone down here. You have

52:49

to stop as investigators and say we

52:51

need to treat this case it differently

52:54

and the husband. And God

52:56

help him if he is in a

52:58

sense god help the any husband who

53:00

citizen who gets blamed for his wife's

53:02

death, they need to Just under C

53:05

N.unasked this case you I'm sorry, but

53:07

this is what it looks like. From

53:09

this angle something more needs to be

53:11

done to protect women after death after

53:13

they've been killed or they die at

53:16

their own hand. Whatever it is, the

53:18

case needs to be classified as something

53:20

different and investigators need to treated differently

53:22

and and not go because it that

53:25

that. Would have they say like the

53:27

the first forty eight hours as like the

53:29

most critical on that me investigation like right

53:31

on the scene at the most part of

53:33

call and and I don't now but we

53:36

got the probate file an the the facts.

53:38

And mean, she. Filed.

53:40

For divorce a. April.

53:43

sixteenth i wanna say ah and

53:45

then he was served in the

53:47

papers two days before she was

53:50

killed and that in that's a

53:52

big it that have any there's

53:54

just a lot of red flags

53:56

but i i agree with you

53:59

liz something else has to

54:01

be done because we just see

54:03

this over and over and over again and I'm

54:07

not fully convinced just because the

54:10

medical examiner said based on the

54:12

wounds that it is a self-inflicted

54:14

wound. We've

54:20

all seen movies, people can set up a

54:24

murder to look like a suicide and in

54:27

this case I

54:29

just really hope and the other thing

54:31

is that this is the Robeson

54:34

County Sheriff's Office who it

54:36

seems like is pretty busy.

54:40

I think quite a few murders

54:42

happen there and it's

54:44

just really unfortunate that some

54:47

cases and not saying that

54:49

it's going to happen with this one but

54:51

it's just much easier for everybody to

54:54

say it was a suicide and then

54:56

to write it off as a suicide

54:58

and move on and check that box

55:00

and it's one less

55:02

open case and I'm

55:05

sure they're like everywhere. I'm

55:07

sure they're overworked and lacking

55:09

resources but couple things, this

55:11

could be within the FBI's

55:13

jurisdiction if there was any

55:15

sort of crossing borders if

55:18

he murdered her and if and

55:21

I'm saying if and again I'm

55:23

not positive one million percent that he

55:25

murdered her. I'm

55:27

just saying that there's a lot of signs that

55:30

she was very very scared of him and that there's

55:34

enough there for motive in

55:37

itself. Very strange the way he gave

55:39

a full description to

55:42

his flock. You

55:45

could say you may have heard that

55:47

my wife passed away last

55:49

night. It's very traumatic for my family and

55:51

me. I don't want to

55:53

talk about it but please say your prayers for

55:55

me. But why go into

55:57

the granular detail on that when

55:59

you... just found out 12 hours earlier and you

56:02

don't know what it was. Like

56:04

Mandy said, it could be

56:06

that she was abducted or somebody did this.

56:10

Why go into that granular detail like that

56:12

and get into her background and give a

56:14

cause of death? It's hard

56:16

to say because the evangelical churches

56:18

have very distinct relationships with

56:20

their pastors and their pastors

56:22

have very distinct relationships with

56:25

their flock. There's more of a,

56:27

not in every church, but I think in more

56:29

charismatic ones, there's a

56:32

sort of an open book kind

56:34

of mentality. I think like I'm transparent

56:37

and here, so it's hard to say

56:39

whether that's a sign of anything. When

56:42

you look into his history, he

56:44

does have violence. He's gotten in

56:46

trouble for being violent before. He

56:48

was charged with assault and battery

56:50

of a high and aggravated nature.

56:52

That's a serious felony. That's just a serious

56:55

felony. It means somebody got hurt and

56:57

you're very seriously hurt. So listen

57:00

to this though. In October

57:03

2021, he applied. This

57:07

assault and battery occurred in the late

57:09

90s and he pleaded guilty to it

57:11

in 1999. He

57:16

was sentenced to, I believe it was like four

57:18

years suspended, that kind of thing. Okay, so Eric,

57:20

when you commit a felony, admit to a felony,

57:22

what are the things that you lose as

57:24

a citizen? Right to vote, right

57:27

to hold a license. Can't be

57:29

a plumber, can't be a barber, can't be an

57:31

accountant. What kinds of things can't you maybe purchase?

57:33

Can't hold a gun. Can't hold a gun,

57:35

right? So in October

57:38

2021, this is now 22 years

57:41

after he pleaded guilty for

57:43

assault and battery of a high and aggravated

57:45

nature. He submitted

57:48

an application to be pardoned for that

57:50

crime and he was granted it five

57:53

months later, six months later, something like that. I think it was

57:55

in May 2022. He

57:57

was granted and we have the application. that

58:00

he put in for his pardon along with the

58:02

recommendation letters. We got it while we were... Was

58:04

that a federal partner or a... No, it was

58:07

state. It's state. Governor McMaster gave him

58:09

the pardon? Apparently. I mean, the

58:11

board agreed and yeah,

58:13

Governor McMaster must have agreed. And

58:15

he wrote in his reason for

58:17

requesting a pardon. And again, this

58:20

is in just two years ago.

58:23

I am seeking a pardon to restore my

58:25

civil liberties in the community that I serve

58:27

daily. As a husband,

58:29

father and pastor, the right and ability

58:32

to protect my wife and

58:34

children as well as

58:36

my congregation is imperative. So

58:39

he hasn't said firearm here,

58:42

but it sure does seem like

58:44

the reason he was seeking a pardon was

58:46

so that he could purchase a

58:49

firearm, right? Am I crazy? So

58:51

two years ago, he put in an application to

58:54

get rid of his very serious felony,

58:57

which was a violent crime for this.

59:01

So that's disconcerting. And

59:05

that's something that I'm hoping that

59:07

the sheriff's office is looking into.

59:10

What's the lead... Who's the lead investigative chair of

59:12

agency, Mandy? Is it the local or is it

59:14

the North Carolina one? Is that what we have

59:16

to find out? It's North

59:18

Carolina because she was found in North

59:20

Carolina at a state park. But Robeson

59:22

County Sheriff's Office is in charge of

59:24

the investigation as far as I know,

59:27

as state police could take over, the

59:30

FBI could take over if we find out

59:32

that it crossed state lines. I

59:36

think the problem that

59:38

we're seeing right now is that breaking

59:40

news on this as we

59:42

were talking about this, the

59:45

case is already derailed. When an

59:47

ME says it was

59:49

suicide, it just makes it incredibly

59:51

hard for a proper investigation

59:54

to occur. And just again, I want

59:56

to... When an ME says suicide based

59:58

on wounds, I really... want to ask

1:00:00

a million more questions. Just

1:00:04

like when a pathologist says it was an auto

1:00:06

accident that took Stephen Smith's life and you go

1:00:08

down that rabbit hole. You're

1:00:11

down that rabbit hole and it could

1:00:13

just be a completely incorrect rabbit hole

1:00:15

and instead I mean they need to

1:00:17

be getting GPS data of not only

1:00:20

her phone, of his phone, they

1:00:23

need to be again make it

1:00:25

whose gun is it, when was

1:00:27

it purchased and what happened with

1:00:29

that and whose fingerprints are on

1:00:32

it. I mean there's

1:00:34

a lot of things but the scary thing

1:00:36

is if this was a murder

1:00:38

and if he did it, it sounds

1:00:40

like he had been planning this for a very

1:00:42

long time and he knew where to place

1:00:46

evidence and knew how to point

1:00:49

the investigation in the wrong

1:00:51

direction and that makes it

1:00:54

a whole lot more difficult

1:00:56

but I don't think that this

1:00:58

man like Alex Marduk anticipated

1:01:00

the entire internet coming down on

1:01:03

him and looking up every move

1:01:05

that he's made and carefully watching

1:01:07

him and carefully combing through his

1:01:09

life and looking through all of

1:01:12

his very

1:01:15

alarming past. Why

1:01:17

do you have to reach a conclusion so

1:01:19

quickly? That's what I'm thinking like what is that all

1:01:21

about? What about a toxicology report

1:01:24

on her? Let's take that,

1:01:26

let's find out. So

1:01:29

execute a search warrant, go look in their

1:01:31

house, see what is in there. Is

1:01:34

that a prescription that's in the

1:01:36

house? Find out little

1:01:39

things. I mean just what's the

1:01:41

rush to reach a conclusion that

1:01:43

somebody committed suicide? Well I think

1:01:45

it's easy. It's easy for the medical examiner, he's

1:01:47

just going on the information he's gotten, what he

1:01:50

sees in front of him. It's easy for the

1:01:52

police department because they can close the case. It's

1:01:55

certainly easy for a potential if this

1:01:57

was a murderer, for the potential murderer.

1:02:00

But let's just say this, if there is

1:02:02

a woman legislator in North

1:02:04

Carolina and one in South

1:02:07

Carolina and you're listening, I

1:02:09

think it would be a very good thing to

1:02:11

do to write some

1:02:13

legislation that puts a

1:02:16

hold on any suicide case, any scene,

1:02:18

any case where it seems like a

1:02:20

woman has taken her life, where

1:02:22

like I said earlier, there's question

1:02:25

about her relationship, where there's

1:02:27

some sort of indication that

1:02:29

her not all was

1:02:31

well in her home life. It's not to

1:02:33

say that women don't take their own lives,

1:02:36

but when you complicate, when you have this

1:02:38

complicating factor of this was a fraught relationship

1:02:40

when she was actively worried about this happening

1:02:42

to her. I don't think you could, because

1:02:44

how many cases now are we going to

1:02:46

talk about this where a medical

1:02:48

examiner or a coroner

1:02:50

or what have you has put down a

1:02:52

cause of death or manner of death that

1:02:55

then screws everything up for

1:02:57

the case itself. We're dealing with this, this is

1:02:59

Sarah Lynn Kaluchi's case. It

1:03:02

was a situation with Steven's case. It

1:03:05

just seems like we're constantly talking about

1:03:07

this. We had three different death

1:03:09

certificates in Steven's case. Right. Three.

1:03:12

Right. I think first of all,

1:03:14

we're supposed to find out more about this on

1:03:17

Tuesday. The Robeson County Sheriff's Office is supposed to

1:03:19

come out with some sort of a report or

1:03:21

some sort of statement

1:03:24

saying what they have found

1:03:26

and I hope that they're

1:03:28

either investigating it thoroughly or

1:03:30

they have some really, really,

1:03:32

really convincing information that points

1:03:35

to suicide. I'm not

1:03:38

even sure if I can imagine what

1:03:40

that could be because every piece of

1:03:42

information that I'm imagining could

1:03:44

also be placed, if you know what I mean. Are

1:03:48

they being coy? Is it

1:03:50

possible that they're going

1:03:52

along with the suicide thing to watch the

1:03:55

preacher to see what he's doing and to see

1:03:57

if he lets his guard down? I

1:04:01

mean, they'd have to be pretty cunning to come up

1:04:03

with that idea in Robeson County. Because

1:04:05

it is tarnishing her name. Well, kind

1:04:08

of. I mean, there's no shame. I know that it's

1:04:10

shameful in certain religions and what have you, but I

1:04:12

don't think we want to shame people who make the decision

1:04:14

to take their lives. No,

1:04:16

but I'm just saying, you know, for him to

1:04:18

get on the pulpit and say, oh, she tried

1:04:20

a number of times to

1:04:23

commit suicide, and she had mental problems,

1:04:25

and we've committed her. I mean, they

1:04:27

stigmatized her. He's weaponizing it,

1:04:29

and that's really frustrating from, like,

1:04:32

it's so hard to articulate how

1:04:34

upsetting it is when you see

1:04:36

a man weaponize a woman's mental

1:04:38

illness. Because it is a

1:04:40

stigma. It's still, no matter how many

1:04:43

Instagram posts, no matter how many times we put

1:04:45

it out in the public, it's still a badge

1:04:48

that somebody wears where they sort of feel

1:04:50

like they have to, I don't

1:04:52

know, maybe like compensate for it. Or

1:04:55

in certain lights, it looks different, right? Like,

1:04:57

you can have depression and anxiety, and that's

1:04:59

a normal thing, and most people I know

1:05:01

have some form of it. But when you

1:05:04

start to talk about, like, somebody

1:05:06

took their own lives… Right. And

1:05:09

a couple other things I want to say.

1:05:11

It seems like they start – they at

1:05:13

least met when she was underage, and he

1:05:15

was some sort of a youth

1:05:17

pastor. I believe she was 14, 15. So,

1:05:22

he could have – that's

1:05:25

another giant red flag. But the other thing I

1:05:27

want to say before we wrap this up is

1:05:30

that with this

1:05:32

case, what

1:05:34

is different is that the family

1:05:37

seems to be very – they

1:05:39

already out of the gate seem

1:05:42

to be 100 percent

1:05:44

against the idea that it's a

1:05:47

suicide, and

1:05:49

very, very, very skeptical of him

1:05:51

and the relationship, which sometimes in

1:05:54

abusive relationships like this, the abuser

1:05:56

controls her family as well. And

1:05:58

so sometimes the – person

1:06:00

who's being abused family just kind of

1:06:02

stays quiet and stays down. But it's

1:06:04

been good to see that they are

1:06:07

taking their power back. They have a

1:06:09

lawyer. They're filing probate

1:06:11

documents. His sister is

1:06:13

in charge of got a

1:06:15

special appointment. Well, under our state

1:06:17

law, she would be appointed as

1:06:20

personal representative to pursue an investigation

1:06:22

or any wrongful death claims regarding

1:06:24

the death of her sister. Special

1:06:27

administrator. Really? Okay. All right. It's

1:06:30

just, I guess she has investigatory

1:06:32

powers and they're not pursuing any

1:06:34

legal claim yet. I mean, usually

1:06:36

it's a PR, special administrators a

1:06:38

little different, but then obviously

1:06:41

you're right. They have questions and they're going to

1:06:43

demand answers and they're going to hire their own

1:06:45

investigators and they're going to have a lawyer that's

1:06:47

going to have his ideas and possibly

1:06:50

hopefully there could be a coroner's in

1:06:52

question. Right. It's extremely important.

1:06:54

And they did the smart thing with

1:06:56

putting the family, putting in writing, what

1:06:59

they knew about the abuse of the

1:07:01

relationships and what they were questioning with

1:07:05

her death. So it doesn't get

1:07:07

all skewed within media and it

1:07:09

does the message doesn't get conflated

1:07:12

by it or it's, it's a

1:07:14

solid document showing what they knew

1:07:16

and what they believe. And that's

1:07:19

super helpful and important when it comes

1:07:21

to covering cases like this. For sure.

1:07:23

Well, that was a big episode. Cuts

1:07:25

down, everybody. Cuts down. Cuts

1:07:28

down. Kaba

1:07:36

Justice is a Luna shark production created

1:07:38

by me, Nitti Matney and co-hosted by

1:07:41

journalist Liz Farrell and attorney Eric

1:07:43

Bland. Learn more about our mission

1:07:45

and membership at lunasharkmedia.com. Interruptions

1:07:48

provided by Luna and Joe Pesky. A

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