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or at hm.com Hello

2:05

and happy Tuesday. I'm not

2:07

gonna lie. Things feel

2:10

a little out of control right now. It

2:12

feels like the good guys are

2:14

getting punched over and over again

2:17

by Team Murdoch and their agents.

2:20

I.e. the people who have willingly

2:22

taken up their cause and

2:24

are spreading lies and twisting

2:26

facts. It is actually really

2:28

disgusting to see how effective

2:30

Team Murdoch's strategy has been,

2:33

at least on social media.

2:35

Ultimately, it shouldn't matter what's on

2:38

social media though. It matters what

2:40

happens in the courtroom. On today's

2:42

show, we discuss the campaign to

2:45

tear down Becky Hill's credibility and

2:47

what it might mean for Alec

2:50

Murdoch's chances at getting a new

2:52

trial. We also talk about

2:54

the different types of defamation that

2:56

exist and what South Carolina's oath

2:59

of civility of means in terms

3:01

of how lawyers are expected to

3:03

conduct themselves in and out of

3:05

the courtroom. One thing we are

3:08

discovering behind the scenes is that

3:10

just about every aspect of what

3:12

is happening to Becky is somehow

3:14

tied to a Murdoch associate in

3:17

some way, either directly or indirectly.

3:20

This surprises us zero,

3:22

obviously. We'll talk more

3:24

about this on our next episode of

3:27

True Sunlight, but I wanted to share

3:29

that just to give a little context

3:31

to our discussion today so you can

3:33

understand where we are coming from and

3:36

our opinions about what is happening. Let's

3:38

get into it. Cups

3:43

up, guys. Cups up. Cups

3:46

up. Cups up. What you got

3:48

there, Eric? It's my new Blam Richter glasses. I got to give

3:50

you guys one when I see you. Are those glass?

3:52

It's like a tin. What is it? Aluminum?

3:55

Yep. That's cool. I

3:58

like that. I love that. That's very E.B. a

4:00

latte monday. Yeah, I love

4:02

the new Starbucks cups this year. They added

4:05

pink. They're really pretty. Which makes

4:07

me want to go there more often.

4:09

How are you feeling after your surgery?

4:12

A lot better than the

4:14

last one. This one was

4:16

a lot less invasive. It's

4:18

only six stitches. And

4:21

it is not on my butt, which having

4:24

a surgery on your back end

4:26

is just it just involves everything. Like every

4:28

time you sit it hurts. Every time you

4:32

get up or you walk

4:34

it hurts. This one is a lot less

4:36

painful. And David got to watch it and

4:38

he was horrified. Now I could have done it for

4:40

you, Mandy. I had three tattoos and I

4:43

cut my first one out. And then

4:45

the second one it was before laser. I got

4:47

them sliced out with like a machine that looked

4:49

like a Hobart deli cutter. So I could have

4:52

done that for you. So yeah, I got

4:54

taken off three tattoos off me. Like at

4:56

a doctor's office you mean like you didn't do it yourself.

4:58

The first one I did in the

5:01

basement with a knife and sandpaper. My

5:03

sister-in-law helped me. I drank six Genesee

5:05

cream ale and then we started sanding.

5:07

Oh Eric, it looks like shark bites, huh?

5:10

Yes, they do. They do. We've

5:12

all had medical procedures lately. You

5:14

started it. Then Renee had a

5:16

medical procedure. I know Mandy did

5:18

actually. Yeah, then I had mine.

5:20

I know everybody's crazy. It's

5:23

surgery season for all of us. Yeah, really

5:26

truly. But I'm glad to hear

5:28

it went well. We should talk

5:30

to Teddy Jo Mellencamp because she

5:32

has had quite the ordeal with

5:34

skin cancer and pre-cancer surgeries. Oh

5:36

really? She's from Hilton Head. Oh

5:39

yeah. I've always wanted to talk to

5:41

her. Her dad. Yeah, John

5:43

Mellencamp, the singer. Yeah, he still lives

5:45

on the bus. Yeah, and they're quite

5:48

the local celebrities while also being actual

5:50

bona fide celebrities. But guys, so before

5:52

we get into the Murdoch stuff today,

5:55

I just want to talk. Did you

5:57

guys see the sentencing of a kid named

5:59

Ethan? Crumbly in Michigan. He's the

6:01

kid who I believe he killed four

6:03

people in a school shooting. His parents

6:05

I think were arrested and charged after

6:07

and sort of an unprecedented like

6:10

accountability move. Did you see his sentencing and what

6:12

he said to the court? I did not. That

6:15

he was a bad person. But he's

6:17

a bad person and you know I was watching that

6:19

and it really like stood in

6:21

stark contrast to everything we've been talking about

6:23

these last few weeks with Alec and what

6:26

he decided to do with his time and

6:28

sort of the difference between what you kind

6:30

of I guess what you the court wants

6:32

to see from people like this kid basically

6:35

said I'm a bad person. I belong in

6:37

prison. Whatever sentence you give

6:39

me I'm going to try and work on being

6:41

a better person. I'm already trying. I know two

6:43

years isn't enough to look at and see

6:45

a record. So I hope in 15 20 years

6:48

you'll see this change in me over the course

6:50

of time. He tried to say you know it

6:52

was no one's fault but his own. I'm here

6:54

because of myself. Basically all the things that I

6:56

think you kind of want you know I'm sorry

6:59

that that kind of thing. So it was interesting

7:01

to see because he appeared genuine. Yeah.

7:03

Yeah. Yeah. This is

7:06

a 17 year old who committed his

7:08

crime when he was 15 and he

7:10

got life without parole. So we look

7:12

at like you know punishment

7:14

I guess school shooting school

7:16

shooting. Yeah. And you know he's

7:18

one of the probably a rare

7:21

mass shooter who didn't end his own life.

7:24

Yeah. Right. It's very it's

7:26

very rare for those things to even go

7:28

to trial. Yeah. So it's just an interesting

7:30

study and sort of like what goes sort

7:32

of in the mind of a mass shooter

7:35

like that. But beyond that it's like we're

7:37

when we're talking about somebody like Alec who

7:39

has all this power all this sort of

7:41

you've been caught man. You've been caught. We

7:43

caught you. You're found guilty. Caught you a

7:45

hundred times over and still yet

7:48

like this 15 now 17 year

7:50

old understands sort of the message

7:53

of accountability. What what that

7:55

part of the process is supposed

7:57

to look like for somebody who's

7:59

done something. which is, you

8:01

know, I think we get these comments from

8:03

people like, you know, they're rare, but sort

8:05

of like what, you know, there's no forgiveness

8:07

or there's no, you know, like, getting forgiven

8:10

by the victims is a good thing, right? And

8:12

like we talked about this last week, it's just – Like

8:15

no real contrition. Right. There's no – it's

8:17

just – it's students' dark contrast. And I just

8:19

thought it was interesting to bring up. What do

8:21

you think about the concept of

8:24

the parents who bought the gun

8:26

being criminally liable knowing of the

8:28

mental illness history of their son?

8:31

You know, it's one thing to sue

8:33

the parents civilly for that, but they

8:35

have done the extraordinary step of charging

8:37

the parents criminally for purchasing a weapon

8:39

for a 15-year-old that they knew had

8:41

violent propensities and some mental illness. What

8:43

do you think about that? I think

8:45

it's interesting, and I like it. Ditto.

8:48

Something has to be done. And I'm

8:52

with you, Liz. Like, I was watching

8:54

that video yesterday, and I mean, there's

8:56

just so many times where I get

8:58

angry because every once in a while

9:00

I get a comment from somebody that's

9:02

like, you hate Alex so much that

9:04

you can't see anything, you can't see

9:06

straight, and blah, blah, blah, and your

9:08

reporting sucks because you just hate him

9:10

so much. And then

9:13

you see something like that after

9:15

watching Alec Murdock and his horrific

9:17

behavior all of these

9:19

years that accumulated into that 50-minute

9:21

speech, and then you compare that

9:24

to a kid who clearly has

9:26

learned more than Alec in his

9:28

19 years of life

9:30

in a school shooter who totally realized

9:32

that he did wrong. And

9:35

then there's Alec Murdock, and it's

9:37

because the system has supported him

9:39

and because Dick and Jim have

9:42

stood by him and supported his

9:44

inability to see

9:47

his own mistakes and own up to

9:49

them. And speaking of, more fun

9:51

on that front this week. We could call

9:53

it fun. I don't know why you're calling

9:55

it fun, Mandy. Sarcasm.

9:59

Yeah. Does somebody

10:01

want to bring us up to speed where we are with

10:03

everything? Eric, where are we

10:05

with everything? Well, we're moving inching closer

10:07

to ultimately the new hearing. We've had

10:09

the Becky Hill Show pretty much for

10:12

the last week and a half. It's

10:14

been pretty quiet on Dick and Jim

10:16

publicly. I'm worried about what's happening behind

10:18

the scenes. I'm worried about, you know,

10:20

who the judge is going to be.

10:23

We heard a rumor it was going

10:25

to be one judge, and then that

10:27

judge turned out to not to be

10:29

the judge. I'm not feeling as bullish

10:31

as I was about a month ago

10:33

about where we are. You know, I'm

10:35

very, very concerned. What do you mean bullish? What

10:38

do you mean by that? Because a month ago

10:40

when we were only talking about the

10:42

juror interference issues, I felt pretty good

10:44

based on what I knew from the

10:46

jurors I represented and then talking with

10:48

Justin Vanberg and Will Lewis, the lawyers

10:50

for Becky Hill, as well as with

10:53

Creighton Waters, and then obviously reading the

10:55

submissions to the court. But with the

10:57

issues with Becky, I'm starting to get

10:59

concerned because she may not end up

11:01

getting the benefit of the doubt. Becky's

11:03

credibility is going to be first and

11:05

foremost. The judge is going to have

11:07

to look at her on whether she's

11:10

going to be credible on when she

11:12

says, I did none of these things

11:14

that I'm accused of. And I think

11:16

she would have gotten the benefit of

11:18

the doubt without the ethics complaints on

11:20

the issue of inappropriate behavior at the

11:22

courthouse and some of the monetary issues.

11:24

And now that we have our son

11:26

and the fact that her phone got

11:28

confiscated and we have a grand jury

11:30

impantled, I am concerned that she will

11:32

not get the benefit of the doubt

11:34

of any credibility. And if that happens,

11:36

I'm not sure that the fact that

11:38

the jurors said that she did nothing wrong

11:40

will carry the day. The other thing is

11:42

we may never hear from Becky because she

11:45

may have to take the Fifth Amendment. If

11:47

I was her criminal lawyer, I would think

11:49

long and hard about putting her on the

11:51

stand and opening her up to cross-examination. And

11:53

it could really put her in legal jeopardy.

11:55

It's one thing that she may lose her

11:57

job. It's one thing that there may be

11:59

a maybe a new trial as a result

12:02

of something that she did, you know, she

12:04

could be in legal jeopardy, seriously legal jeopardy.

12:06

And that's what concerns me for the new

12:09

jury trial. Cause that's all I'm concerned

12:11

about. I mean, I do care about

12:13

Ms. Becky, but I care more about

12:15

the jurors that gave their time and,

12:17

you know, are basically being mocked for

12:20

giving a verdict of their conscience. They sat through

12:22

seven weeks of it. This was their verdict. They

12:24

own it and they don't want to give it

12:27

up. So I have a question

12:29

and I think I know the answer, but I

12:31

just want to make sure it comes

12:34

down to whether

12:36

or not the jury,

12:38

it comes down

12:40

to whether or not the jury was

12:42

influenced by her behavior. Correct. Well, it

12:45

comes down to whether the judge interprets

12:47

the law that way. So Dick and

12:49

Jim say whether or not the jurors

12:52

felt influenced by her is immaterial because

12:54

the law says meaning like, when

12:56

I say law, I mean like previous cases

12:59

and previous rulings say that it's enough that

13:01

she was a public figure and there's a

13:03

question over what she said. So they say

13:05

that's enough to warrant an evidentiary hearing and

13:08

a new trial. The state says the opposite.

13:10

They say because the fact that these jurors

13:12

are saying, no, my verdict, even the juror,

13:14

like we said in true sunlight, even the

13:17

juror that Dick and Jim are holding over

13:19

their heads, like we got one is not

13:21

saying that Becky influenced her decision in any

13:23

way. So the state is saying that, you

13:26

know, ultimately it doesn't matter because

13:28

whatever she said or didn't say,

13:30

the jurors are saying, A, you

13:32

know, the story that the egg lady was telling

13:34

is not, you know, we're not corroborating that into

13:37

I came to my own decision on my own.

13:39

And the second thing, shouldn't Dick

13:42

and Jim's credibility matter at all

13:44

here? Like, I feel like we're

13:46

forgetting that they have lied and

13:48

lied and lied again and again

13:50

and again on behalf of Alex

13:52

Murdock and they shouldn't. I

13:55

understand that Becky's credibility is in

13:58

trouble, but if Becky's credibility. is

14:01

in question then shouldn't theirs be that

14:36

would be utopia if we valued credibility

14:40

matter? Right. And it

14:43

should. When I spoke

14:45

for the Kansas Bar the other

14:47

day, one of their

14:50

rules is up all the truth and

14:53

they were asking me about media ethics

14:55

and media strategy and I said just

14:57

at the end of the day, being

15:00

honest to the media and leading them

15:02

down the honest path is the right

15:04

and ethical thing to do for lawyers.

15:06

And this case has gone so far

15:09

off the rails because Dick and Jim

15:11

haven't done that. The truth has never

15:13

been on their side and they have led the

15:16

media into a circus of

15:19

untruths and

15:21

I just I feel like

15:24

again the South Carolina Bar

15:26

has got to wake up

15:28

and realize that it just

15:30

makes a mockery. Well we

15:32

have in the 90s or late

15:34

90s early 2000s there was a

15:36

well well known famous domestic divorce

15:38

lawyer named Harvey Gould and he

15:40

would get opposing parties in a

15:42

deposition. He had a wife, he

15:44

represented the husband and the wife

15:46

was an opposing party and he

15:48

abused her so bad in a

15:51

deposition. When did you stop

15:53

having sex, cutting my

15:55

guy off? When did you stop smoking

15:57

marijuana even though she didn't do that?

15:59

It's constantly. painting the record about how

16:01

bad she was. And it got to

16:04

the point that the lawyers started screaming

16:06

at each other. And our bar enacted

16:08

what's called the civility oath. And

16:11

we have it where you have to, all

16:14

the members of the bar had to swear

16:16

every time, every year to take this civility

16:18

oath. If you were a new lawyer or

16:20

if you were an existing lawyer, you had

16:23

to swear that you would uphold and the

16:25

bar wrote this civility oath that we believe

16:27

it's not just being civil to other lawyers

16:29

and opposing parties and the court, but

16:31

it's a civility oath to be civil

16:34

to the public. And it came up

16:36

this week in the Gordon matter with

16:38

Mr. Gordon and his wife, who was

16:40

the photographer that they claimed that lawyer

16:42

Laurie, who went on a Tik TOK

16:45

rant about Becky Hill and about the

16:47

Gordon's and did say a lot of

16:49

things that were not true. And

16:51

they have filed a grievance against her

16:54

based on the civility oath that she,

16:56

you know, used profanity when in her

16:58

Tik TOK. And as a lawyer, we're

17:00

supposed to uphold the best of the

17:02

public and we're supposed to be honest

17:04

and truthful in, and speaking good faith.

17:06

So it's going to be a test

17:08

on, I think that grievance on how

17:10

far the civility oath is applied because

17:12

Laurie said it only applies to lawyers

17:14

talking to lawyers or lawyers dealing with

17:16

opposing parties that I believe in. Many

17:18

others believe that the civility oath is

17:20

I can't just be civil. Eight o'clock

17:23

in the morning, no six o'clock at

17:25

night when I'm wearing my suit. But

17:27

after I get home from work, I

17:29

have to be civil then too. And

17:31

I have to be civil on

17:33

the weekends. I can't bring my

17:35

profession in disrepute. So I think

17:37

actually that Gordon grievance could be

17:39

an interesting expansion of the civility

17:41

of I'm interested in hearing your

17:43

thoughts. But before we do that,

17:45

we'll be right back. The

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learn more. Okay,

18:58

guys, let's talk about something that

19:00

I don't really wanna talk about,

19:02

but I think it's important because

19:05

it's gotten so far out of

19:07

hand and absolutely bananas. Somebody that

19:09

we're gonna call TikTok Lori. TikTok

19:12

Lori is a lawyer in

19:14

South Carolina and she

19:17

has a very large following on

19:20

TikTok. Granted, there's a lot, I

19:22

just wanna say this, sidebar. TikTok

19:24

is well known to inflate their

19:27

numbers insanely and that's

19:29

a whole nother thing. Whatever, she's

19:31

got a big following on TikTok.

19:33

She had a video last week

19:35

that was horrifically bashing

19:38

Becky in a very

19:40

mean girl way. Did you guys see

19:42

it? Yeah, unfortunately,

19:44

it was sent to me and I

19:46

usually don't watch this because

19:48

the way I look at it is like she's

19:51

entitled to her own opinion and she can have

19:53

her, you know, she has a niche audience and

19:55

whatever. But in this case, because of just how

19:57

egregious the accusation she was making.

20:00

and just how egregious it was that knowing like,

20:02

I guess let's start at the beginning here. The

20:05

reason that was sent to me was because

20:07

there was evidence in what Lori was saying

20:09

that somebody had leaked to her one

20:11

of, at least one of the complaints

20:13

that were filed against Becky in July,

20:15

I believe. So she was using from

20:17

what we understood, lifting basically entire passages,

20:19

it seemed, in what she was saying.

20:21

It was clear that she had just

20:23

read this and what the accusations. And

20:25

a couple of the accusations concerned Melissa

20:28

Gordon, who was the wife of Neil

20:30

Gordon, who was Becky's co-author on

20:32

the book. And it accuses Melissa of

20:34

getting special treatment from Becky during the

20:36

trial, attending the trial 30 days and

20:39

getting preferential seating, being allowed to have the

20:41

run of the courthouse with her camera. And

20:43

essentially this like issue of when did Becky

20:45

decide to write the book is now floating

20:47

to the top as if it matters really,

20:50

truly at all. But Eric, you were on

20:52

Court TV this past week with Vinny Polaton

20:54

and TikTok Lori was on there with Neil

20:56

Gordon as well as Joe McCullough and a

20:58

couple of other people. One

21:00

of the things that I'm interested in hearing with

21:02

this civility going back, I just wanna go back

21:05

to the civility oath. You're saying that this is

21:07

something that you guys continue to have to do

21:09

every year? No, it's, you do when

21:11

you refer, when you

21:13

file for your license, but when they

21:16

enacted it, all the lawyers had to

21:18

get together and raise their

21:20

oath and take the oath. And then

21:22

all new lawyers have to do it

21:24

as well. And on that appearance, Mr.

21:26

Gordon and lawyer Laurie really

21:29

got into it. I mean, it

21:31

was a full contact argument and

21:33

he systematically dismembered her and her

21:35

assertions that she made. She claimed

21:37

that Becky met his wife, Melissa

21:39

I think was her name, at

21:41

the start of the trial, that's

21:43

not true. They met on March

21:45

2nd. It said that she

21:47

signed a deal with him or made an

21:49

agreement to write the book at the

21:51

beginning of the trial. That was not true.

21:53

It happened on March 3rd or March 4th.

21:56

And each assertion that she

21:58

made, he knocked down. And

22:00

she was, you know, nonplussed about it.

22:02

Like, oh, so what? It doesn't really

22:04

matter. You know, I get to say

22:06

what I want and, you know, you

22:08

are, you know, tainted. And

22:10

she looked really bad. I mean, you know,

22:13

I'm interested in what you guys say. I

22:15

would say it in a different way, but

22:17

I'm interested to hear what you guys say.

22:20

I think she looked disgraceful and I think

22:22

she embarrassed our profession because we're not a

22:24

profession of tiktokers. We're a profession and we

22:26

talk with force and authority. And we have

22:29

a duty of candor, by the way.

22:31

The rule in our rules of professional

22:33

conduct, we have a duty of candor

22:35

to not only to the courts, but

22:37

to opposing counsel and opposition. And I

22:39

believe it extends to the public. It

22:41

doesn't give us free reign to lie.

22:43

We have a duty of truthfulness. And

22:45

so I'm interested. What did you guys think of

22:48

that? Right. I just want to

22:50

say this really quickly. Going back to

22:52

what you said earlier about lawyers, it

22:54

shouldn't matter when you put your suit

22:56

on or when you have your jammies

22:58

on, you should not be lying at

23:00

any point. But the big difference is

23:02

that she's doing all this very, very,

23:04

very publicly. And her

23:07

video got like, I want to say it

23:09

was like 40,000 likes,

23:11

probably over a million views. It

23:13

went very, very viral very, very

23:15

quickly. And the damage

23:17

immediately, I looked to the comments

23:19

and everybody was like, Oh, Miss Becky,

23:22

oh, we're going to get a new

23:24

trial. Miss Becky is the worst, blah,

23:26

blah, blah. Hating on her, it did

23:29

immediate damage. That's what I'm saying. And

23:31

when you do that publicly and there's

23:34

major repercussions for your actions, as

23:36

there has been in this, I'm

23:38

really interested to see what the

23:40

bar does here because also TikTok

23:42

Lori is a woman and she

23:44

is not protected by the good

23:47

old boys. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

23:49

whoa, whoa, whoa, Mandy. Whoa. Hold

23:52

on. Hold on. Can I finish though? We

23:54

all know how it works. She wants to

23:56

be in the club. She has

23:58

been seen in the club. She mingles with

24:00

the good old boys. She's a part of

24:02

them, but we all know how it works

24:05

There's always the sacrificial person that if that's

24:07

the first to go and Lori would be

24:09

the first to go They would put her

24:11

on a chopping block before Dick Jim any

24:14

of the rest of them do that I

24:16

agree I'm saying dick and Jim have layered

24:18

normal circumstances under normal circumstances dick and Jim

24:20

have layers and layers and layers of protection

24:23

That she does not because also we

24:25

should talk about like she came out

24:27

of nowhere Nobody knew that she was

24:30

as an attorney Before she

24:32

started making these tick-tock videos like I think

24:34

she was a defense attorney in Columbia I

24:36

think she has her own firm She did

24:38

she worked for Rutherford before she went to

24:40

school at the same time Alex and Cory

24:42

and all of them did but it's a

24:45

She wasn't this huge big-time lawyer

24:47

before all of this happened And

24:50

she's got no direct connection to the

24:52

murder to the murder on that or

24:54

she's not involved civilly She's not as

24:56

involved criminally and she talks like she

24:58

is part of the process whether it's

25:00

representing victims Or understanding the defense and

25:02

I never really understood it because I

25:05

never saw her at the trial during

25:07

the murder trial And I haven't seen

25:09

her at any of the sentencing and

25:11

I always wondered why every time I

25:13

went on TV She would always take

25:15

the contrary position to me She was

25:17

a contrarian to everything I said and

25:19

then Liz pointed out to me that there

25:21

may be a connection Between her

25:23

and dick and Jim that goes

25:25

beyond just I like them. Is

25:27

that true Liz? Yeah, not only

25:29

has she been photographed with them and

25:31

I guess Mandy you said she

25:33

like cried Because of Cory

25:36

sentencing or something she cried on

25:38

tick-tock live Apparently when Cory got

25:40

sentenced like she was physically upset

25:42

about it when Cory Flimming was

25:44

sentenced and what bothers me about

25:46

that is is she's a defense

25:48

attorney And she is probably

25:50

like most defense attorneys, you know She has

25:52

to have that conversation with her client, which

25:55

is like this is the best deal I

25:57

can get for you This is I recommend

25:59

taking this deal, but you know, we

26:01

can still go to trial. She's like,

26:03

I won't say she's I don't know,

26:05

but most defense attorneys have probably recommended

26:07

to their clients to take a plea

26:09

deal that ended up with them in

26:11

prison for longer than what Corey got

26:13

for less of a crime when it

26:15

comes to the monetary damage and the

26:17

damage that and what she upset. Right.

26:20

So like, are you crying every time that you sit in front of

26:22

a judge and you're like, oh, yeah, we accept the plea deal. To

26:26

me, it just shows like it's just so clear

26:28

that because I don't know if it's like some

26:31

Patico because they're in the same profession or if

26:33

there's, you know, if there's just a felt like

26:35

there was a connection between her and Dick and

26:37

are in. Is there

26:40

there is a connection? Right. I

26:42

mean, I was sent a picture

26:44

of Dick Jim and Tik Tok

26:46

Lori at the Columbia St. Patrick's

26:49

Day celebration. And this source

26:51

said that they are very good friends.

26:53

It's very well known and shame on

26:55

her for not saying that because guess

26:57

what I do in my podcast? I

27:00

say Justin's my friend. I say that

27:02

Eric's my friend. I am very clear

27:04

about who I'm friends with and how

27:06

that affects my reporting. It is not

27:08

cool for her to she's done a

27:10

lot of pro Alex Murdoch, Tik Toks.

27:13

And if your friends are taking Jim

27:16

fine, but admit it. And because that affects your

27:18

bias. And second of all, because I know people

27:20

are going to say, why are you giving her

27:22

attention? Blah, blah, blah. She just

27:24

wants this. Here's my problem. I've

27:27

watched Tik Tok Lori for a

27:29

few years now and she has

27:31

gotten progressively more dangerous

27:33

and progressively more loose with

27:35

facts, progressively more aggressive. And

27:37

it's because the algorithm likes

27:39

it. It's because Tik Tok

27:42

likes that crap. Tik Tok

27:44

likes Mean Girls stuff. That's like, ooh,

27:46

let's take down this woman. Ooh, Becky's the

27:48

worst. So let's Alex Murdoch, let's

27:50

get a new trial. Woo woo, like, like,

27:52

move on. That's what the

27:55

algorithm loves. They love very dumb things

27:57

that people can watch in a minute

27:59

and react. and very

28:01

strong reactions. Her videos make

28:03

you angry, they make you upset,

28:05

they make you want to

28:07

comment back and that's all the...

28:10

Scream. Scream. Throw your phone

28:12

as I almost did when I saw

28:14

the video. But I think that the

28:17

problem and I've heard people say like

28:19

Lori is a good person deep down,

28:21

she's just getting wrapped up in all

28:23

of this. And that's why we're saying

28:25

this right now because Lori, don't get

28:27

wrapped up into all of this. Guess

28:30

what's going to happen? The good old boys

28:32

will not protect you at the end of

28:34

the day, they're not going to. Like this,

28:37

she will be the first one to get

28:39

in trouble with the bar, I guarantee it,

28:41

I'll put my money on it. They do

28:43

not care about her, they do not care

28:45

about her TikTok following and none of it's

28:47

worth it. And I just think she's just

28:49

getting so wrapped up because the way that

28:51

social media encourages it. You

28:53

can do a profanity laced reporting

28:55

on TikTok, you can talk about

28:57

what you think of Becky and

28:59

you could say that I think

29:01

this tarnishes her reputation, it goes

29:03

to her credibility, there's too much

29:05

smoke. You can say all these

29:07

things which are reasonable and they're

29:09

genuine questions that need to be

29:11

raised and I recognize that. But

29:14

when you dumb it down with

29:16

profanity laced and you're a lawyer,

29:18

it brings our profession in disrepute.

29:20

How I conduct myself, look, look

29:22

what Alex did, his single ear

29:24

act of theft and all his betray

29:26

on the murders has done incalculable damage

29:28

against our profession. He tarnished the 5000

29:31

members in our state, the bar members

29:33

and when somebody who has Lori's audience

29:35

and I commend her, she's done a

29:37

really good job to get people to

29:40

listen or you don't have to do

29:42

profanity laced things. If you're substantive and

29:44

you're credible, you can have the same

29:47

impact. Right. What bothers me is the

29:49

conflation and Eric, I think you kind of

29:51

understand what I'm saying here between journalism and

29:53

the law in that TikTok Lori's profession, I

29:55

mean she's a lawyer, she's not a reporter

29:57

and I think that

30:00

her getting leaked this information and

30:02

then presenting it in a way

30:05

that doesn't couch it journalistically in

30:07

any way. And it's

30:09

almost like her reaction validated the

30:11

claims. So even though she threw

30:13

in the word allegedly here and

30:15

there, a reaction of that level

30:17

that she gave it, I think

30:20

it rings true to people when they hear it and they're like,

30:22

oh boy, like, wow, she

30:24

gave preferential treatment to that. Because we're

30:26

just trained, I think, as consumers of

30:29

information to just believe what we're hearing

30:31

on face value sometimes, especially in the

30:33

last 10 years. So

30:35

that's what bothers me is that there's this sort of

30:37

like, go ahead and say what you want,

30:40

be a commentator, who cares? But I

30:42

think that there's a huge lack of

30:44

responsibility when you're taking information that was

30:47

leaked to you and presenting it.

30:49

That's the second time you use the word

30:51

leaked. So let's get into that. Why

30:54

do you mean leaked? What are you

30:56

talking about? What was leaked? How would

30:58

somebody get it if only her lawyer

31:00

submitted this and then there was a

31:03

complaining party who made the complaint against

31:05

Becky? What do you mean by

31:07

leaked? So it's interesting in South

31:09

Carolina, the state ethics commission,

31:11

when you make a complaint against a public

31:13

official back before, I believe it was 2021

31:15

or 2022, I can't remember, but it

31:20

was a very, very secretive process. Meaning

31:22

you could not, as the complainer, tell

31:24

anyone that you made this complaint. You

31:28

could not call the media and say, I filed

31:30

an ethics complaint against so and so. Here's a

31:32

copy of it. Here's why I'm saying this. And

31:35

it was like, I believe it was under the

31:37

threat of potential obstruction of justice. I

31:39

can't remember, but it had serious consequences

31:41

to it. And if you were there

31:44

under an investigation by the ethics commission,

31:46

you weren't allowed to talk about it

31:48

either. So what that did was it

31:50

protected the bad people, the people who

31:52

had done something wrong, and it vilified

31:54

the people who hadn't done anything wrong

31:57

because inevitably it gets out there, right?

31:59

You're political. opponents find out that this has

32:01

happened, they start leaking it and you don't have

32:03

the benefit of being able to respond. So somewhere

32:05

in, like I said, 2021, 2022, the Ethics Commission

32:07

changed their

32:09

roles. So if you've made that complaint or you're

32:11

somebody that has had the complaint made against you,

32:14

you're allowed to talk about it publicly. But here's

32:16

my issue. So why I'm using the

32:18

words leak. The names of the

32:21

people who complained against Becky are

32:23

redacted in these complaints, apparently, right?

32:25

That is a sign, well, that

32:28

to me says that these people

32:30

who I guess, you know, for

32:32

all practical purposes would be considered whistleblowers

32:34

to an extent, they get to protect

32:36

their identity. But their identities are completely attached

32:39

to the kinds of complaints that are being

32:41

made because you need to be able to

32:43

judge and say, does this person have standing

32:45

to make this complaint in the first place?

32:48

Like would they have witnessed this? Are they

32:50

hearing it through the grapevine? Because largely when

32:52

you look at these complaints, they're not cited.

32:54

Like there's not, they're not firsthand. And they're

32:57

not cited. They don't have, they're not citing

32:59

a statute that, you know, accusing her specifically

33:01

of violating a statute. They're not, you know,

33:03

from what we could tell, it didn't seem

33:05

like there was any sort of corroborating

33:08

evidence that was attached to this.

33:10

So what happens is these people

33:12

who get to hide under the cloak of their

33:14

names being redacted have, you

33:16

know, who, whether it was them that gave

33:18

the information to TikTok Lori, or it was

33:21

somebody in sled, somebody in AGs who knows

33:23

or lawyers that happen to

33:25

have it, whoever she got it, I call

33:27

it a leak only because it's still

33:30

patently unfair because Becky can't

33:32

respond to it. So Becky

33:34

can't have her, she

33:37

can't come out with her receipts and be

33:39

like, wait a minute here, actually, like what

33:41

they're saying happened didn't. And here is the

33:44

photocopy of the receipt that shows that this

33:46

is where the money went. Or this is

33:48

the email that I got, you know, like

33:50

she can't say this is the evidence that

33:53

shows that I didn't do this. And that

33:55

to me, a leak you do so because

33:57

you want the public to have it, whether

34:00

it's for good reasons because you want

34:02

the public to know something that's bad

34:04

that's happening or it's because it helps

34:06

you politically and it helps you with

34:08

your case potentially in this case. So

34:10

what was given to TikTok Lori and

34:12

to subsequently to other media, it to

34:14

me felt very motivated in doing exactly

34:16

what TikTok Lori did and what Mandy

34:18

read in the comments. That was, you

34:21

know, a very effective strategy, I guess.

34:23

But Eric, I guess the question comes

34:25

down to this because Mandy and I

34:27

don't believe that Becky's credibility should

34:29

matter. And this is in

34:31

a sense of like, I mean, I do

34:33

not know, you know, I don't know what

34:35

she's being accused of specifically. I don't know

34:37

what, you know, if there's more to it,

34:39

if there's more, I don't know what investigators

34:41

are seeing. But regardless of whether or not,

34:43

you know, Becky's credibility can be torn down,

34:45

the issue just comes down. I mean, the

34:47

way that Mandy and I are looking at

34:50

this law is the jury did not change

34:52

their votes. So

34:54

why are you concerned about

34:56

her credibility issue if, you know, really

34:58

it's the egg lady juror versus Becky

35:00

in a she said, she

35:02

said situation? Because the egg lady juror has a

35:04

lot of problems too with credibility. Because

35:06

I believe that if there is

35:09

a toss up on this and

35:11

it's not so one sided that a judge

35:13

says, look, the allegation by the egg lady

35:15

and Dick, they just had, they didn't hit

35:17

the mark. I think

35:19

we have to, it has to

35:21

prevail significantly. But if it's

35:24

close, if there is credibility of

35:26

the egg lady and some of

35:28

the other jurors waffle a little

35:30

bit and Becky comes on, the

35:32

judge is just going to look

35:34

at her differently as if, you

35:36

know what, you are a public

35:38

officer, you should have been beyond

35:40

reproach and now you're accused of

35:42

possibly, and this is accusations, tampering

35:44

with the jury, you're accused

35:47

of using your office to possibly

35:49

enrich yourself and you

35:51

used your son to get

35:53

information on potentially people

35:55

that are gunning for your job. It

35:57

would be an abuse of power. And

36:00

so when you have that abuse of power,

36:02

I think a judge would be hard pressed

36:04

if a decision is on the fence, it's

36:06

going to go to Alex. It's got to

36:09

go to Alex. We have to have a

36:11

system where the tie goes to Alex. And

36:13

I think when we started, it was 90,

36:15

10, they was so in

36:17

favor of the prosecution, but I'm getting

36:20

scared now that it's getting close

36:22

to the middle of the

36:24

fence. And look, Laurie is not protected.

36:26

When she goes on her TikTok, she

36:28

can't just say things that are false

36:30

and she can't say it with malice,

36:32

we're protected when we're in court. I

36:34

could say anything I want, basically when

36:37

I'm in court or in a court

36:39

filing. And I've said this about Dick

36:41

when he has a press conference, he

36:43

is not cloaked with that kind of

36:45

immunity. You are subject to the regular

36:47

defamation laws that we all are subject

36:49

to every day. And Laurie can't just

36:52

go out there and say these false

36:54

notes because listen, a lie travels around

36:56

the world before the truth laces up

36:58

its shoes. No one's ever going to

37:00

remember if Laurie's telling falsehoods now, but

37:02

they're going to solve the public when

37:04

it comes out of their fall somewhere

37:06

down the road. Nobody's going to hold

37:08

Laurie accountable, but the law of defamation

37:10

will. And maybe the bar will. That's

37:12

what I'm saying. Yeah. Just saying allegedly

37:14

is not enough. And that's something that newspaper

37:16

reporters know. Journalists know you can't just

37:19

say allegedly, like you've also have to

37:21

show that you did your due diligence to find

37:23

out if it's true. She's replicating Mandy, the

37:25

defamation. You can't republish it. Somebody else

37:27

does it. I can't just republish it

37:29

and say, well, Mandy was the first

37:31

one that spoke it. And all I'm

37:33

doing is repeating what Mandy said. No,

37:35

I become Mandy when I speak it.

37:37

Well, and she in the video barely

37:40

said allegedly, we know this as journalists.

37:42

I remember when I was on 2020,

37:44

a few people made fun of me.

37:46

It was my first TV interview and

37:48

not people made fun of me because

37:50

I said according to the depositions a

37:53

lot. And, but that's just how

37:55

I'm journalistically trained to say, this is, this

37:57

is how I know that it's according to

37:59

that. not this is fact. And

38:01

when I was back

38:05

and listened to it again, it was coming off

38:07

as this is what happened,

38:09

this is fact, especially when she was

38:11

accusing Becky of essentially stealing funds from

38:14

the Colleton County Clerk of Courts Office,

38:16

which that's a crime. And

38:18

the way that she was saying that went

38:21

down and what we have seen

38:23

so far seems like two different

38:25

things as far as her scratching

38:27

out a check. What did she

38:29

say, Liz? So yeah, the

38:31

accusation is that because Becky was giving

38:33

us tours, or she wasn't giving

38:35

the tours before there were tours being

38:37

given at the courthouse after the trial,

38:39

one of the tourists that came donated

38:41

money to a fund or to help

38:43

the court fix their windows. And one

38:46

of the accusations from a former employee

38:48

of Becky is that Becky deposited the

38:50

check in her own account and

38:52

scratched off the Colleton County

38:54

Court, the name and wrote in her

38:56

own name allegedly. So that's what

38:58

the ethics complaint says. I'm sure Becky

39:01

has a response to that. So

39:03

David just asked, what are those four

39:06

things again, that are per se, you

39:08

don't have to prove damages and per

39:10

se defamation or per se libel is

39:12

when you accuse somebody of doing bad

39:15

at their occupation. Two, you accuse them

39:17

of a loathsome disease. Three, you accuse

39:19

them of a crime. And four, it's

39:21

the old time you say a woman

39:24

is unchaste or somebody's unchaste. So those

39:26

are per se, meaning if you do

39:28

that, the law presumes that it's defamation,

39:30

you don't have to prove damages. But

39:33

now Becky's a public figure. And you guys

39:35

know under New York Times Sullivan case, if

39:37

it's a public figure, you have to actually

39:39

go that next step and show actual malice

39:42

that she was really trying to hurt Becky

39:44

and knew that what she was saying was

39:46

false. Well, I think it's time for us to

39:48

take a quick commercial break. But I will say that,

39:50

you know, in that show that you were on, Eric

39:53

TikTok, Lori did look a little nervous to me

39:55

that's just you know, she's in the business of

39:57

opinions. That's my opinion. So we will be right

39:59

back. fact

42:00

that the AG would grant this stuff. That's all

42:02

I'm saying. I don't feel concerned

42:04

about that because I think you know

42:06

the ethics commission is set up to

42:09

solely investigate ethics complaints and what one

42:11

at least one of the complaints was

42:13

accusing her of crimes of stealing money.

42:15

So it now transcends that

42:17

right. It's not just an a matter of

42:19

you know did I not report money I

42:22

was getting or am I double dipping, am

42:24

I you know that kind of thing. I'm

42:26

holding two positions and I should only be

42:28

holding one. It's an issue, it's a matter

42:30

for law enforcement. So the best place for

42:32

it would be Fled at this point

42:35

just in the sense of neutrality of

42:37

being able to look at this from

42:39

a non-connected Murdoch position. That's saying that

42:41

Fled doesn't have its issues with the

42:43

Murdochs but you know I am concerned

42:46

about Duffy's role in this

42:48

but I mean ultimately Duffy did forward it

42:50

on to Fled which was the right thing

42:52

to do. I just don't know how long

42:54

it took for him to do that. What

42:56

happened before you know what led up to

42:59

that moment? I do think well let

43:01

me tell you really what's so huge

43:03

here. Yeah let's if the jury issues

43:05

can be scheduled before the end of

43:07

the year if the Supreme Court names

43:09

a judge the judge has a status

43:12

conference after the first of the year

43:14

and then the jury issues are scheduled

43:16

to be heard whatever the process and

43:18

procedures the judge wants to put in

43:20

place. If they're heard before there's a

43:22

conclusion of the ethics stuff and the

43:25

investigations in Ms. Becky I think everything's

43:27

going to work out fine. My concern

43:29

is if our Pootleian says no judge

43:32

we now need to wait until

43:35

the investigation into Becky and the state

43:37

level and all these investigations with Sled

43:39

on the conclusion before we hear that

43:42

motion. Do you understand my concern? I

43:44

think it's adorable. Yeah I think

43:46

it's funny that you're using the word if because

43:48

we know darn well that that is what Dick

43:51

is going to do. Like obviously that's going to

43:53

be the strategy. Can we just talk a little

43:55

bit though about maintaining the sanctity of the jury?

44:00

process and end of jurors in the

44:02

future because I think what we're missing

44:05

here is that the judges

44:07

have, whoever the judge is, whoever, you

44:09

know, the Supreme Court, whatever it is

44:11

that will ultimately end up ruling on

44:13

this, they have a duty to protect

44:15

future trials and if all

44:18

it takes is this sort of

44:20

argument that could be blown

44:22

over like a feather when you're strictly

44:24

talking about the evidence and what, you

44:26

know, and what was actually being, what

44:28

Becky's actually being accused of and what

44:31

the outcome of Elick's trial was. If

44:33

you're just solely talking about that stuff,

44:35

it seems obvious to me that the

44:37

judicial would want to protect the

44:39

sanctity of future jury trials and,

44:41

you know, nobody wants the jurors to look

44:44

at like a, you know, if they're saying

44:46

they have to go through this. If we

44:48

have to go through this every single time

44:50

now, you know, like not just with Elick

44:52

but it sets a precedent for how other

44:54

defense attorneys, like how far they'll

44:56

go and if it doesn't, it's to the person

44:58

who might say this doesn't set a precedent, this is

45:00

just dick. Well, it's a one-off, it's a one-off,

45:02

so you're gonna hear that. If it is a

45:04

one-off, then why is he getting that one-off?

45:06

That's because it's on there. Proof positive that

45:09

he's getting special treatment. Right, exactly. So either

45:11

it's gonna set precedent or it's a one-off.

45:13

If it's a one-off, that means we're seeing

45:15

special treatment happen here. So, Eric, can you

45:17

talk a little bit about that because I

45:19

want to know what this could mean for

45:21

future jury trials? Well, you know,

45:24

most trials are done without a

45:26

spectators being in the audience. It's usually

45:29

just the parties and the paralegals that

45:31

are assisting lawyers and maybe some people

45:33

that are close to some of the

45:35

litigants and so, you know, there isn't

45:37

that much at stake where, you know,

45:39

you're gonna have a defense attorney who's

45:42

going to raise these issues.

45:44

But there are some very high-profile cases

45:46

and, you know, if I'm a juror,

45:48

they can potentially be selected to sit

45:50

on one of these high-profile cases. I

45:52

may come up with a real good

45:54

reason not to serve on a jury

45:57

because I don't want this kind of scrutiny. You know,

45:59

like I said, these jurors gave up seven

46:01

weeks of their life and now all

46:03

of a sudden they're made to be

46:05

look like they're bad people that they're

46:07

covering up for Miss Becky or they're

46:10

not being honest that they were manipulating

46:12

and all that is just totally untrue.

46:14

It's not even how they're being made to look

46:16

Eric they've had to sit for interviews with sled

46:18

interviews with Dick and Jim they've had people showing

46:20

up on their doorstep knocking on their doors they had

46:22

to get me as their lawyer their lives have

46:24

been disrupted because of this and

46:27

me right they don't need me as their

46:29

lawyer really right they really shouldn't have had

46:31

Eric Bland come and meet with them and

46:33

you know talk to me in a privileged

46:36

setting and they should have never had to

46:38

reveal to me what their thought process was

46:40

on why they reached the guilty verdict. I

46:43

should have never been able to hear that

46:45

or get inside their head that's their own

46:47

jewel that's their own they own it they

46:49

own it. But the other thing that really

46:52

bothers me about all of this is

46:54

the timeline and even looking at

46:56

when you look more into these Jeff

46:58

Hill allegations and what he did happened

47:01

in July correct yeah what he allegedly

47:03

did yeah what he allegedly did

47:05

with wiretapping and which is not supposed

47:07

to have anything to do with Becky

47:10

allegedly happened in July. Jeffy didn't get

47:12

involved until after Becky was made

47:14

out to be the worst person ever

47:16

by Dick and Jim who ruined the

47:19

trial the investigation didn't ramp up

47:21

at all until after all of that that

47:23

all just seems very weird and but the

47:25

other thing that bothers me about the timeline

47:27

is this I'm worried it's going to come

47:30

down to the jury 630 who

47:32

said that Becky the one juror who

47:34

said Becky said watch his body language

47:37

she was the one that actually

47:39

did vote and she said

47:42

that but she said Becky's didn't influence

47:44

me but before she said watch his

47:46

body all the things that Creighton said

47:48

right watch his body language blah blah

47:50

blah. If they would have asked

47:53

and when we talk about the

47:55

sanctity of the jury process if

47:57

they would have just asked these

47:59

jurors. right out of the gate

48:02

back in March, did Becky say

48:04

this? Did she not? Blah blah

48:06

blah. Memories would have been so

48:08

much clearer and it's

48:10

almost impossible now to decide whether or

48:13

not Becky said that or not because

48:15

it happened such a long time ago.

48:17

It was a traumatic process and the

48:20

timeline worked out for Dick and Jim

48:22

because they want people to be confused

48:24

and they did it specifically. Am I

48:27

making sense here? It's all... You

48:29

are making a hundred percent sense. It's

48:31

all... Tell me what we said.

48:33

Guys, tell me what I was wearing and

48:35

what we said on episode 32. Pigeon the

48:37

pants. Tell me right now. Where were you?

48:40

I don't know what episode 34 was. What were

48:42

you wearing? What was I wearing? Where were

48:44

you? You know, who's... let it off. Oh

48:46

yeah, we have no idea. Right, I don't know what episode 34 was. Right,

48:48

and like

48:54

tell me what I was doing a

48:56

week after the trial or during or

48:58

the Tuesday of that Alex got convicted.

49:00

I don't know and until I go

49:02

back to look at things, I was

49:04

confused too of who said what during

49:07

the trial and it's spent like if

49:09

they said it if they asked them right out

49:11

of the gate I think that the new

49:13

process should have some sort of

49:15

like defense attorneys can only ask

49:18

questions of jurors so soon after

49:20

the trial so they know for

49:22

sure yes or no what they're

49:24

getting into because here's what happened

49:26

Becky's book came out they saw

49:28

an opportunity there at the same

49:31

time Becky's son was getting into

49:33

some trouble in Collerton County they

49:35

saw a huge opportunity there and

49:37

they didn't start asking questions until

49:39

August of these people and it's

49:41

very clear that it would be impossible

49:44

at that point for these people unless they

49:46

have photographic memories to say Becky said this

49:48

on this date and I know that for

49:51

a fact so it's just more strategy and

49:53

trickery that we're seeing and I'm using the

49:55

legal system in this way to their benefit

49:57

but what concerns me the most is this

50:00

sort of sword of down-loquies that's going

50:02

to be hanging over future prosecutors,

50:04

judges, what have you. If Ellek

50:06

is successful in being able to

50:08

get a new trial, if the

50:10

jurors are dragged through the mud

50:12

and further dragged through the mud,

50:14

it creates a point of leverage

50:17

moving forward that we've already got

50:19

enough in the state of judges

50:21

fearing lawyer legislators, fearing these

50:23

high-priced sort of defense attorney personality, like

50:25

the ones that we all know of.

50:28

If there's a threat of if I

50:30

don't rule this way or, you know,

50:32

I guess what I'm saying is how do

50:34

you protect a jury's verdict moving forward? If

50:37

there's always this threat over the judge that

50:39

it could go this far or the threat

50:41

for the prosecution, they might be more likely

50:43

to drop cases. It just feels like it's

50:45

creating this new point of leverage and I

50:48

don't like that one bit in a state

50:50

where we're trying to sort of remove those

50:52

points of leverage when it comes to just

50:54

using the system for trickery. We're going to

50:56

be talking on True Sunlight more about Becky

50:59

and the Murdock case and sort of closing

51:01

some of the loops there. And then

51:03

after that, we're going to be returning to

51:05

the Stephen Smith case and some of the

51:07

things that were said on 48 hours and

51:09

particularly by some of the experts that were

51:11

employed in this. So yeah,

51:13

I haven't even told you guys this,

51:16

but events are really fun and I

51:18

want to do more of them. And

51:21

Liz, I think that you will love them too. You

51:25

know I love fun. I

51:27

know you love a good time. Can

51:29

you believe this is Mandy saying this? Hold on

51:32

guys. Can you believe our

51:34

Mandy is talking about I love

51:36

going out in the public now

51:38

and talking to people and everything.

51:40

She was traditionally very private and

51:42

guarded. It's great. It's

51:45

great Mandy. It just gives you so

51:47

much confidence and it's just so different.

51:49

It's such a crazy experience. We have talked to

51:52

these people for two years and then being

51:54

able to listen to them and hear

51:56

why they love the show and why

51:58

it matters to them. hearing about

52:00

their fights against the zoning boards and

52:02

just different things that they, the way

52:05

that the podcast affects their lives. It's

52:07

so like uplifting and it's positive and

52:09

it makes me feel a lot better

52:11

and I want to bring that joy

52:13

out to more cities and places across

52:16

the United States and we're gonna start

52:18

doing that next year. So if you

52:20

have an idea for a Luna Shark

52:22

event where we can come and we'll

52:25

sign books, we'll sign koozies and have

52:27

a good time anywhere. It could be

52:29

Australia. I know we have people in Australia. It could

52:31

be a lot of people. Submit

52:33

your event suggestions

52:36

at lunasharkmedia.com/new events.

52:40

I think it'll be pretty cool because by

52:42

the spring my books should be finished and

52:44

now on the public it won't be as

52:46

robust in sales I'm sure as yours and

52:48

I would be shocked if Liz says she

52:50

isn't working on a book either. So I

52:52

would imagine all three of us will have

52:54

books out so it'll be a pretty exciting

52:56

time. It will be an exciting

52:58

time and yeah like I said it's

53:00

just a very fun and it's it's

53:03

crazy like in a different to be in

53:05

a different city and to just show

53:08

up at a location and it's like all of

53:10

your new best friends are there and they're all

53:12

just welcome you with a nice warm hug and

53:14

it's just amazing and so I want to do

53:16

that a lot next year and I think it'll

53:18

be really fun and on that note great

53:21

show everyone. Great show. Cups down. Cups

53:23

down. Cups down. Great

53:25

job guys. Thank you.