0:00

We seek fame everywhere outside

0:02

the home, our time, attention, our identity. It's just

0:04

torn. And yet at the end of

0:06

life, when you look at end of life research, it

0:08

really is about, I wish

0:11

I would have lived the life I wanted to and not

0:13

what others expected of me. And the

0:15

world outside is expecting

0:17

other things of us rather than,

0:19

you know, and at the end of life, I mean, it's all really all about.

0:22

How, how well you love your family and how well you

0:24

showed up for your family and your biggest fans

0:26

live under your roof. All

0:33

right, guys, welcome back to another episode of the dad work podcast.

0:35

This is Kurt Storing, your host of the founder of dad work.

0:37

And today I'm joined by Dr. Josh

0:39

Straub. We met in Colorado

0:41

at this mastermind, which the listeners will know all about

0:43

because I've had so many dudes from integrated on, but

0:46

I'm really excited to have you because

0:48

you kind of like, what did I say before squared

0:50

the circle of all this healing

0:52

work, all this emotional work that I did. When

0:55

things were really hard, but you've also

0:57

then showed me that this is

0:59

actually like, there's a biblical truth to this

1:02

and that connection sort of like, it

1:04

just made everything right in my world. So

1:06

first of all, man, welcome.

1:07

I wonder if you could just tell people what you're about, what you

1:09

guys do at famous at home. And then we'll be jumping

1:11

in the conversation.

1:12

Yeah. Thank you Kurt so much for It's

1:14

an honor. And, you know, I love

1:16

that this whole biblical narrative

1:19

around emotions, set you free in a lot of ways,

1:21

especially as you talk about the work that you do.

1:23

So my wife and I lead an organization called

1:25

Famous at Home. And one of the biggest things

1:28

that we found is that there's so much

1:30

vying for our attention in the world around

1:32

us. We seek fame everywhere outside

1:35

the home, our time, attention, our identity. It's just

1:37

torn. And yet at the end of

1:39

life, when you look at end of life research, it

1:41

really is about, I wish

1:44

I would have lived the life I wanted to and not

1:46

what others expected of me and the

1:48

world outside is expecting

1:50

other things of us rather than,

1:52

you know, and at the end of life, I mean, it's all really all about.

1:55

How well you loved your family and how well you

1:57

showed up for your family. your biggest fans

1:59

live under your roof. And that's kind of the biggest

2:01

thing that we talk about is how do

2:03

we, we end all of our podcast episodes

2:05

with, the greatest red carpet you'll ever

2:08

walk is through your front door. you gotta

2:10

find what biggest fans are already running

2:12

as you walk into your house figuratively

2:14

down the red carpet every

2:17

day, whether you're coming home from work, whether you're coming home from the

2:19

grocery store, whatever it is, you know,

2:21

or your kids are coming in that red carpet, you know,

2:23

they're coming home from school or whatever. They

2:25

just want you, they want you and they want

2:27

your attention and the same thing with husbands

2:30

and wives. And so we're just really all about

2:32

helping people prioritize

2:35

famous at home because when we see. When

2:37

we are famous at home, research shows

2:39

over and over again, it shows up how, how

2:42

we, how we serve other people,

2:44

how we show up on our respective stages,

2:46

wherever that We're

2:48

awesome

2:50

respected, well known scene

2:52

or things more

2:55

blessing

2:58

this. the I'm

3:01

out into the world

3:07

which will about work

3:20

were hard there's

3:25

a this

3:34

really what we're all

3:35

And

3:37

have their marriages strong and have

3:39

that, have a trickle down effect onto their relationship

3:41

with their kids.

3:42

That's so good. And what a perfect name, man.

3:45

I love that because it just makes everything

3:47

like so exactly where you need to

3:49

be looking. And for me, I think the distraction

3:52

is a huge part of how we don't

3:54

show up and how we do not become

3:56

famous at home. And that's one of the things I hope to dive

3:58

into. But as you were saying there about.

4:01

That, almost like this curb appeal of life,

4:03

not matching the living room appeal.

4:05

That's something that I, I guessed Christian winger was

4:07

like, yeah, if, if everyone's looking on the outside

4:09

and they think it's good, but you know,

4:11

that as soon as you get inside, it's not actually what it looks

4:14

like from the, from the curb, there's

4:16

a misordered thinking there. And I think

4:18

it's so interesting to see just all the second

4:20

order effects of like, well, I'll just focus on my

4:22

business. Well. Maybe not, man.

4:24

Like maybe that's not actually going to go as well as

4:26

it would have if you just focused at home. And that's

4:29

what we do this podcast as well. So, could

4:31

you give us like maybe a 30,

4:34

000 foot view of just some of the

4:36

points that we can touch on here? Because

4:38

I want to take this a little bit more personal in a moment,

4:40

but I also want people to know what's coming.

4:43

So if you, if I'm like, okay, I'm just, I'm

4:45

a dad, I'm a Christian leader. I'm like,

4:47

I'm just trying to start leading because the world

4:50

around me has always told me. You're not supposed

4:52

to lead your, your, my dad never taught me

4:54

how to lead. I'm just kind of going,

4:56

how do I hold this all together when everything's against me?

4:59

What is your sort of 30, 000 foot view

5:01

of how to be famous

5:03

at home? And then we'll go deeper into all those.

5:05

Well, yeah, it's a pretty big Pretty

5:07

big, softball there in terms of how

5:09

you look at that. You know, I think number of years

5:12

ago, I was, when I first got my

5:14

start, in counseling, I was counseling juvenile

5:16

delinquents and I was like 21 years old. I'm

5:18

fresh out of college. I'm working in a maximum security juvenile

5:20

detention center. And then I quickly

5:23

progressed. Once I started working and working

5:26

on my counseling degree. I

5:28

became a chaplain at a juvenile detention center,

5:30

started working with those with misdemeanors,

5:32

but every juvenile delinquent

5:34

I ever worked with, I can look

5:36

back and go, and I've never met

5:38

one who had a great relationship with his dad. Every

5:41

single one had a, either didn't

5:43

know who their dad was, or

5:46

just had a poor relationship. And

5:48

I remember doing fatherlessness research at that

5:50

time and looking at really

5:52

the, the social ills of our day and

5:55

looking at the lack of fathers, in,

5:57

in the lives of, in, within these statistics

5:59

at a core, core level of all these statistics,

6:01

you saw fatherlessness as, as, as a real

6:03

big, almost cause to this and,

6:06

and, and, and I

6:08

and name man to

6:14

be and

6:16

I looked my own life,

6:18

don't home

6:28

the

6:35

think that

6:39

it looks the there

6:44

to see just of

6:50

Like that's going as

6:52

it have

6:52

where passion

6:54

that's 000

7:00

saw how, how

7:02

that. Because want

7:04

this a

7:08

so on so forth

7:09

if trying

7:16

me You're

7:18

my dad

7:20

me. how

7:23

hold this when everything's against sort

7:25

of

7:26

didn't that

7:30

other men did through the church, through the years

7:33

that really helped me to grow in my spiritual

7:35

growth. And so I think that community

7:37

of men, I think all of this

7:39

really comes down from a 30, 000 foot view. How

7:42

can we really support and

7:44

champion fathers, not just

7:46

in their own homes, but also

7:48

within the community of believers

7:51

so that I'm a spiritual father to

7:53

other young men, other. Boys, my

7:55

son's age and all of dads

7:57

come together and we get the support in a community,

8:00

a local community where we have other

8:02

fathers who are championing the same

8:04

things that I am in my home. I have other

8:06

men speaking those similar values into

8:08

my son's life, where they might listen

8:11

to him before they're going to listen to me, or those

8:13

dads are providing something, a strength that

8:15

I don't have, an area, a

8:17

hobby, something that maybe, you know. There's

8:21

all kinds of, hobbies like music, music would be

8:23

a great one. I'm not, I'm not musically inclined.

8:25

I have a lot of great musician friends who

8:27

my kids can look up to and learn from,

8:30

who are also incredible dads. And so I think

8:33

from a 30,000 foot view, our passion

8:35

is, yeah, let's help people. Let's help men show

8:37

up well in their own homes and lead well, lead

8:39

their wives well, lead their kids well. But then

8:41

also, how do we show up in a community of

8:44

other men where we can really support the community

8:46

of believers?

8:47

guys

8:47

Hey guys, it's Kurt Storing. I want to take a quick break

8:49

to tell you about our family leadership blueprint.

8:52

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8:54

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8:56

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8:59

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9:01

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9:03

You can find that for free at dad. org

9:06

slash blueprint. It includes

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work slash blueprint to download

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your free copy today. That's dad.

9:19

work slash blueprint. All right, let's get

9:21

back to the show.

9:22

And a lot of that work, if I am

9:25

correct on this, is emotional

9:27

safety, emotional regulation,

9:29

nervous system stuff, presumably. And

9:32

for me, when I think about all this kind of stuff,

9:34

because this was where I needed the work, I

9:36

was like, I was super hard. Until

9:39

I wasn't then I was mean and angry

9:41

and explosive and then the shame spiral would

9:43

come But the word that comes

9:45

to mind with all of the actual work itself

9:48

Is influence and the reason

9:50

that I like the word influence is because it's a little

9:52

bit more masculine And I think it

9:54

gets guys attentions a little bit more then

9:57

you're like, oh emotional intelligence guys are like, I

9:59

don't need that But if you're like, bro, if you want

10:01

influence over your teenage sons, if

10:03

you want influence in your wife's heart, then

10:06

you're going to need to know how to show up in

10:08

a way that is emotionally connected and safe.

10:10

And I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but like,

10:12

there's just no way to

10:14

go about building connection, relationship, and intimacy

10:17

without this emotional piece. Do you have anything

10:20

to add on to

10:20

Oh, it's 100 percent accurate. I just got

10:23

out of a, I do a lot of work with Joint Special Operations

10:25

Command. I, I just did a marriage intensive,

10:27

a couple weeks ago. And, and

10:29

I do a lot of work with, these men who are

10:31

literally trained to capture or kill. That

10:33

is their job. And I remember

10:36

in 2015, I wrote a book, on emotional safety

10:38

in kids and, and showing up well

10:40

with emotional safety and how to cultivate that in the home.

10:43

And I remember, showing up. At Fort Bragg

10:45

asked to speak on this whole idea of emotional safety.

10:48

And I had never been more nervous in my life because

10:51

I'm, I'm talking to these men who are

10:53

trained to capture or kill. And

10:56

it's re it's resonated ever since.

10:58

I mean, I've been doing this work now for nine years

11:00

within the military, almost nine years.

11:02

And the reason is because the very

11:05

thing that they're trained to turn off to survive on the battlefield

11:08

is the very thing they have to turn back on

11:10

to survive when they get back home and,

11:12

and their wives get that their, their

11:14

kids understand that. And even they get

11:16

that. And the cool part about our military

11:19

is they want to be the best in everything. And

11:21

so when they grab a hold of this, I mean, these

11:23

men, manliest of men that I've ever met

11:25

in my life, they grasp ahold of this emotional

11:27

safety thing and man, it's just

11:29

cool to watch, them, them

11:31

show up. like they do. I remember,

11:34

this impacting me personally. First of all,

11:37

back shortly after, so I had learned all this,

11:39

right? I'd learned all this in my doctoral research. I'd learned

11:41

all this intellectually, right? You know,

11:43

Ephesians 3 19 says, Paul writes

11:45

to the

11:49

this presumably

11:57

this kind

11:57

your heart

11:58

where like

12:01

I

12:04

all this stuff a

12:09

comes work

12:11

just had our first

12:15

is like

12:25

you your to

12:33

puree, spackle it her shirt. I

12:40

remember

12:43

Do you anything add on

12:44

his emotions and

12:46

And the, the wild

12:48

part about that is it was about a week later

12:51

that I left for a week to

12:53

go to a leadership retreat. Because that's

12:55

what, that's what you do. You leave your wife, your, your

12:57

lonely wife at home and you go to a leadership retreat. But

12:59

the, the preface of that leading up to that, a

13:01

good friend of mine, Dr. John Townsend, he wrote

13:03

a book. With Henry Cloud called Boundaries, he

13:06

had told Christy and I, he said, if you let Josh,

13:08

he told Christy, he said, if you let Josh come to this retreat,

13:11

I promise you in 10 years, it'll pay off.

13:14

And what happened at that retreat a

13:16

week later was fascinating because one of the

13:18

key pieces I learned at that retreat.

13:21

I mean in some townsend was that the

13:23

world's top leaders from Ford 500 Forbes

13:25

500 leaders, military leaders,

13:28

business leaders, you name it, athletes,

13:30

their ability, the neurobiological

13:33

research was that their ability, the

13:36

highest capacity leaders had the ability

13:38

not just to do clinical content based conversation,

13:41

in other words, just the business of the day, but

13:43

they had the ability to do process based

13:45

conversation. In other words, how they

13:47

felt about the business of the day. They

13:49

had the ability to see what another person was

13:52

feeling about that transaction. Business

13:54

transaction or that, the, the, you know, what,

13:56

what was the fear? What was their, what,

13:58

what did they feel brave about, you know? And

14:01

I remember hearing that and thinking, if

14:03

I want to be a great leader, I got to get this right

14:05

in my home first. And so I

14:07

left that retreat and I went home and I

14:09

told Christie, I apologized to her and I said,

14:11

I'm so sorry. D in April I

14:14

for the ways that I have

14:16

not pursued your heart or asked

14:18

you what was going on in your heart. And

14:20

she said to be fair, she's like, I don't even know what's

14:22

going on in my own heart. We write about this, she

14:25

writes about this in our book, Famous at Home, and just

14:27

kind of that, that, that crossroads that we were at

14:29

at that point in our lives. But

14:31

I remember going home and saying, here's what I'd like to

14:33

do. I'd like to spend 15 minutes a day

14:36

where we sit down and I listen

14:38

to one Positive emotion

14:40

that you had today. What was one good feeling

14:42

you had? You felt brave, you felt content,

14:45

you felt happy, you felt joyful

14:47

you were, expectant, you know,

14:49

looking forward to something. And

14:52

then I'd like to hear one uncomfortable emotion

14:54

that you had today. What is an emotion where

14:56

you felt sad? depressed,

14:58

rejected, jealous, embarrassed.

15:02

I really want to hear what's on that next level

15:04

down. And that was

15:06

an exercise. We started doing that 15

15:08

minutes a day where I would share, she would share.

15:11

And what it did was it took us beyond

15:13

content based conversation. How many times

15:16

our son needed to be fed when we were feeding them

15:18

and how much sleep he was getting and how many minutes in those

15:20

infant years to. The

15:22

feelings of those moments

15:24

to how are we actually doing? And

15:27

I believe when scripturally, you know, you talked

15:29

about this as we take some of this research

15:31

data and we bring it down scripturally, you

15:34

know, the Bible says that, you know, when you get married,

15:36

you become one flesh. And I

15:38

think in Proverbs, when you read the whole of scripture,

15:40

it says to guard your heart for it is the wellspring

15:42

of life. And so when I

15:44

look at my wife and I look at our marriage, and

15:47

I know that we're one flesh, I've got one

15:49

marital heart to guard, I'm gonna go back to what

15:51

Tim Keller said when my marriage is. strong we step

15:53

out into the world in strength. But

15:55

in order for my marriage to be strong, I've got to be paying

15:57

attention and fighting for what's going on in Christi's

16:00

heart, and I've got to protect what's going on in Christi's

16:02

heart and be prepared for

16:04

maybe what's coming ahead. communicating

16:06

and so to guard her heart is

16:09

to hear, and sit, and listen,

16:11

and be quick to listen, slow to

16:13

speak, and slow to become angry. Because

16:15

in verse 20, that's James chapter 1:19-20

16:18

verse 20 says, because human anger

16:20

does not accomplish God's righteousness.

16:23

And so often what we do is we get defensive.

16:25

Why don't you ever ask me about what's on my heart? You

16:28

know, are you kidding me? Like, why don't

16:30

you, you know, and we get defensive

16:33

as husbands and we, and we, and the next thing,

16:35

you know, everyone's limbic system is, ratcheted

16:38

up and we're going back and forth. We're defending,

16:40

we're arguing, we're using sarcasm,

16:42

passive aggression, whatever our dances,

16:44

we get into these things. I

16:46

think one proactive way to really

16:48

enter into our spouse's world

16:50

is this whole idea of just sitting and listening

16:53

to one positive and one uncomfortable

16:55

emotion because it's getting to the heart

16:57

of our wives, and that in turn

16:59

is getting to our own hearts as men as well, and I

17:01

believe that's good leadership. some of our

17:03

That's so good. That's a very actionable thing that guys

17:05

can start doing right now. And there's so many pieces

17:07

to this in terms of you listed

17:09

off probably more emotions and like the average

17:11

American man would even know. So there's

17:14

vocabulary there, which is very important.

17:16

There's also then the ability to sit and

17:18

listen and ask heart questions.

17:21

There's also the ability to know what's happening

17:23

in your heart. And so I think maybe

17:26

I'm just trying to think about like the the pillars

17:28

of this system here and I use

17:30

system sort of loosely but let's go

17:32

with the guy who is hearing

17:34

this. He's like great. That's

17:36

awesome but like I don't know

17:38

anything about my feelings, I don't know

17:40

anything about my emotions and When

17:43

I try I immediately get defensive

17:45

reactive, etc So we're going a little bit in the nervous

17:47

system And for me, I just needed

17:49

to know that this existed like just

17:52

personally as soon as I heard Like

17:54

about the nervous system and about how it was regulating.

17:56

I was like, Oh, I don't have to judge myself

17:59

anymore. I don't have to feel guilty about this anymore.

18:01

I just got to do the work. And for me working,

18:03

I was like, dude, let's go. But

18:06

I didn't know what to do. So can you walk us through maybe

18:08

a little bit of how to do some of that work

18:10

and maybe just some of the background for guys to understand

18:13

this and pursue it confidently.

18:14

of

18:14

Yeah, I think it all starts by understanding

18:16

what we have come to believe

18:19

about emotion. What, what were we taught

18:21

growing up? You know, were we taught

18:23

to not cry because men don't cry?

18:26

The reality is, is that true

18:28

emotional health is the ability to have a

18:30

full range of emotion from positive

18:32

all the way to uncomfortable. And I use uncomfortable

18:35

cause I think every emotion is given to

18:37

us by God for a purpose

18:40

to teach us about our circumstances,

18:42

our soul, and the world around

18:44

us. And, you know, I

18:46

think it's important that we first, Identify

18:48

what were the messages that we were given

18:51

because if you can't if you're

18:53

sitting in a movie theater And you're fighting back

18:55

tears, or you're with some people and you're fighting

18:57

back tears Something's really moving

18:59

you and you don't want to let those tears

19:01

out Those emotions

19:04

have more control of you than you have of them, and

19:06

so I think it's important. You know I

19:09

heard a great For

19:13

me as a man, I don't want to be owned. Like, I want to

19:15

own up to my stuff. I want to

19:17

own my emotions. I want to own my, like,

19:20

if I have sin in my life, I want to repent. I

19:22

want to be aware of that. I want to, I want

19:24

to make sure that I'm constantly working on

19:26

who I am as a man. And, I don't want my

19:28

emotions to own me. I want to own them. But if

19:32

that.

19:37

go to work

19:38

like man would

19:41

got to identify

19:44

to to

19:50

your heart

19:52

know, what are we

19:55

this

19:55

what are we covering

19:57

system of

20:02

alcohol, I

20:05

know feelings defensive

20:14

a little in the nervous this

20:19

just

20:20

But they

20:22

how

20:23

don't

20:26

anymore so

20:34

can

20:39

one of the best start, and I

20:41

would, I would highly encourage this. We wrote it, my wife

20:43

and I wrote a children's book called, What Am I Feeling?

20:46

And in it, there's a pull out feelings poster

20:48

in the back of the book. And you

20:50

can, it's perforated so you can hang it on their bedroom

20:52

or that wall or that type of thing. But

20:54

I think a feelings chart is one of the most

20:57

significant ways that we can

20:59

enter into our emotions

21:01

and our feelings. And so, I don't mean

21:04

to be, please, I don't want to speak condescendingly.

21:07

But in so many ways as

21:09

men, I was this way. I mean, we're, we're

21:11

kids when it comes to our emotions. Like we

21:14

need, we need to rediscover

21:16

that inner child. And so even by

21:18

simply reading a children's book like that with your

21:20

kids, it gives you the ability to also

21:23

with your kids point to what it is that

21:25

you've been feeling. And so

21:27

a feelings chart is a great way to do that.

21:29

You know, there's so many online you could also

21:31

download and print off. The

21:34

other thing that I would, I would encourage

21:36

you to do or to think about is

21:38

that true growth happens,

21:40

like growth, like as leaders, you know, if

21:43

you're a leader, you want to be growing

21:45

and true growth happens when we're thinking,

21:48

feeling and relating at the same

21:50

time. So in other words.

21:53

That's why stories are so powerful

21:55

story. I told about my wife, you know, saying,

21:57

why don't you ever ask me about what's on my heart?

22:00

I guarantee you, if you're a man

22:02

who's experienced something similar with your wife,

22:04

you resonated with that story. And there was a feeling

22:06

within you that now all of a sudden you're

22:08

grabbing a hold of and going, Oh, that 15

22:11

minutes a day exercise. I'm going

22:13

to, I'm going to go home and do that because it connected

22:15

to an emotion and a story. And

22:17

even though we weren't relating, you're relating.

22:19

To me, as you listen

22:21

to my voice. And so

22:24

that's where true growth happens. And so I want to

22:26

give you an example of this. I'm going to go back to the juvenile

22:28

delinquents that w that I used to work with.

22:30

I remember I would sit with those,

22:33

with those guys. And, and the very first

22:35

thing I would do is give them a feelings chart because

22:37

my job was to get them to feel

22:40

remorse for their victims. But

22:42

the reality is, is. I can't

22:44

help somebody else feel something

22:46

for somebody if that person has never

22:49

felt what it has been on the receiving

22:51

end of that feeling. So in other words,

22:53

my ability to help them

22:56

feel like that for me to feel

22:58

empathy for them for not having a

23:00

dad show up for them in their lives, me,

23:03

or seeing their dad leave their mom

23:05

or whatever they have experienced,

23:07

whatever pain and heartache they've experienced

23:09

in their lives. They need someone to

23:11

feel that with them. And I remember one

23:13

particular situation where I had, a kid,

23:16

a court appointed to me, to do counseling

23:18

hours. And then also they would get community

23:20

service and then they would also have hours,

23:23

for counseling. And I remember counseling this

23:25

one kid and. He,

23:27

we were getting nowhere. It was all content based,

23:30

right? We're talking about content and process based

23:32

conversation. We were just in content. He, he

23:34

was incognitive. He wasn't in the emotional.

23:37

And I remember one day he wanted to play basketball

23:39

with some friends and he asked

23:42

me if he could, we could switch our

23:44

time. I think we had like a five o'clock appointment. He wanted

23:46

to bump it up to seven or something. And, and,

23:48

and I knew that it would make them angry

23:50

if I did it. It's kind of one of those situations where I

23:52

knew that I'd be. You know, almost walking

23:55

on eggshells with this kid because I hadn't gotten anywhere,

23:57

but I could feel the tension and

23:59

I chose, even though I could, I chose not to

24:01

I held the boundary of the time. Number one,

24:03

I wanted to teach him the healthy boundary, but

24:05

number two, I was okay with his

24:07

anger towards me. And so we get into

24:10

session. And I remember

24:12

him just looking down. He had his arms crossed

24:14

and he's staring down to the ground and

24:16

I'm asking him questions. And all of

24:18

a sudden I move it to the here and now. And I just said

24:20

to him, I said, I get the feeling that

24:22

you're angry with me. And

24:24

he, and he, and he looks up at me and he looks

24:27

me square in the eye and he cusses

24:29

at me. And, and he says, no,

24:31

you know, And he let me know

24:33

how really angry he was at me. And

24:36

in that moment, it was really beautiful because

24:38

now he was feeling. So now

24:40

he's not just thinking, now he's feeling and

24:43

he's relating to another man. And

24:45

we got to a place that by the end of

24:47

that session, He said, I've

24:49

never had another man sit with

24:52

me and allow me to be angry

24:54

without getting angry back and without

24:56

cussing me out back. He said, this is

24:58

the first time that's ever happened. And,

25:00

and he thanked me for sitting with him and we

25:02

got further. He told me all about his dad. He told

25:05

me all about his broken relationship with. Men in

25:07

his life, we got further in that day

25:09

than we had at any other point because

25:11

he was able to get into the emotion, thinking,

25:14

feeling, and relating at the same

25:16

time. And that's why a lot of times

25:18

are so, so I could go into

25:20

another conversation with that. I'll hold

25:22

it for a second, especially

25:24

with parenting. I think as

25:26

men, for us, you asked the question, how do we

25:29

identify it as men? I think we have to pay

25:31

attention to, if you really want to grow

25:33

as a leader. You've

25:35

got to step into this and you've got to be able to

25:37

identify when you're feeling those emotions,

25:40

just take a step back, find a feelings

25:42

chart or a feelings list somewhere and

25:45

just, just even verbally out loud. Journaling

25:47

is a great way to do this, by the way. Journaling is

25:50

a fantastic way to do this

25:52

and I would highly encourage any man, listening

25:54

to this right now. If you're a leader in any way, just

25:56

even taking a couple minutes a day just to journal

25:58

a few feelings you had. especially

26:00

in a prayer of examine with God and

26:03

asking God how he, how, how he was showing

26:05

up in that emotion. That'll take

26:07

your, that'll take your relationship with God to a different

26:09

level.

26:12

Man, that is, I've just been introduced to

26:14

this kind of prayer. I think that you're sort of alluding

26:16

to you here where it's a relational, it's

26:18

not just the voicemail, but it's asking what's the lie

26:20

I'm believing. And what is your truth?

26:22

And what do you have me to

26:25

learn here? That's, you know, I'm not feeling

26:27

peace and joy. Why not? What do I

26:29

need? And that's, man,

26:31

it's so good, and I'm looking around, I've got

26:33

like 18 journals, and I'm actually putting a journal together

26:35

right now, just because I needed, I,

26:38

yeah, I'll talk about that later, but, there, there's a

26:40

number of things you said in here, and this is one of the things, man,

26:42

that, honestly, it's so hard for me,

26:44

because I, this was everything I had

26:46

to do, and it's like, the last 10 years of my life,

26:48

it's very difficult for me to condense it down to like,

26:51

Oh man, I needed to know this. I needed

26:53

to know this. And so I'm really glad you're using

26:55

stories because those are going to be more

26:57

impactful anyway, but everything you just

26:59

said about that interaction, I think is really

27:02

important for guys to hear for interactions

27:04

with other human beings generally, but for

27:06

your wife and for your kids. And what I heard

27:08

there was empathy and validation. And

27:11

you're able to just hold space. I've

27:13

heard it called. Can you give just

27:15

a quick overview of like the specifics

27:17

of how you interact with this,

27:20

this kid? Because I see

27:22

so many people unwilling and unable

27:25

to sit with their kid's emotions and

27:27

their wife's emotions. And like you said, they get defensive

27:30

and blamey, or they come down hard

27:33

on their kids. Like I used to when I

27:35

would yell because they were making me uncomfortable.

27:37

And I wasn't willing to sit with that. So can

27:40

we work towards comfort

27:42

in other people's emotions? Like probably

27:44

through our own comfort first, so that

27:46

we can hold space and empathize because that was a

27:49

game changer for me,

27:50

Yeah. I think that you have to first understand that you

27:52

can't take it personally. You can't take someone

27:54

else's emotional. lashing out

27:57

on you personally, same thing with my wife.

27:59

And that's very difficult to do because that's where it gets the

28:01

closest, right? Is with your, with your spouse

28:04

or even with your kids, but

28:06

we've got to be able to, and

28:08

again, I say this, I want

28:10

to be careful how I say that we got to be able

28:13

to, it's a journey and

28:15

I think that unless you realize what you're

28:17

signing up for, if you're new to this,

28:19

what you're signing up for, you said. Even

28:22

Kurt, for you, it's 10 years,

28:24

you know, I'm, you know, I'm 44 years

28:26

old. I'm just, you know, I've got, you

28:28

know, I remember entering counseling. My parents

28:31

took me when I was, when they were going through the divorce back

28:33

in my, you know, preteen years,

28:35

but I didn't really enter

28:40

of think to you what's

28:52

you I'm feeling

28:53

it

28:58

I've journal

29:07

And this man for

29:13

to like life

29:29

to for

29:40

it with

29:52

to they

29:56

that's

29:59

come kids. making

30:06

that own

30:15

I simplified it down into emotionally

30:17

safe for my kids, I can help them self regulate,

30:19

I can help them, and the reason that every

30:21

major outcome was linked to that, is

30:24

to emotional safety, is because when

30:26

you have a calming part of your brain, so the brain

30:29

grows from the bottom to the top, I, I think it's important

30:31

to explain this, the brain grows from the bottom to the top, so that back

30:33

part of the brain, the amygdala, it's a lower

30:35

functioning part of the brain, it's the fight or flight

30:37

or freeze response. When

30:39

that kicks in is when we're overreacting,

30:42

that's when we get emotional, that's Okay. That's

30:44

where the verse, you know, be quick to listen, slow to speak,

30:46

and slow to become angry comes in because

30:48

human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness.

30:51

And so whenever someone is emotionally

30:53

lashing out, especially a close loved one,

30:56

what it does is it raises that they're speaking

30:58

out of their amygdala, their, their limbic system, then

31:00

Our limbic system goes up and

31:02

if our limbic system goes up and we react

31:05

in anger, it's just ratcheting everybody

31:07

up. And so as the, as, as

31:10

a parent, or even as a spouse,

31:12

we want to sign up to a lifelong journey

31:15

of being comfortable when someone's

31:17

emotionally lashing out at us so

31:19

that we're helping bring down their

31:22

amygdala. We're helping bring down their limbic

31:24

system and that the, the atmosphere

31:26

in the home, the environment. home.

31:28

The energy in the home, if you will, is

31:30

coming down into more

31:33

of a sense of understanding,

31:35

a spirit of peace, a spirit of

31:37

understanding where we can connect and

31:39

talk as opposed to everyone ratcheting

31:41

up into our dance of Back

31:43

and forth, passive aggression, you know,

31:45

sarcasm, everything that we use, martyrdom,

31:48

you know, we use these tactics to try to,

31:50

I call them the, the, the idiotic

31:53

ways we try to get our spouse to love us deeper,

31:55

or the idiotic ways we try to get our, we

31:57

try to get our kids to obey, right?

31:59

That's really good. Cause that's exactly what's happening. You're like,

32:01

I'm so mad, but it's because you're not seeing me.

32:04

It's because you're not giving me what I need. It's because I don't feel loved.

32:06

So I can attack you. was

32:07

going to attack you.

32:08

Yeah, like it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't

32:11

my wife and I had a conversation

32:13

where we went Here's what I'm likely to do

32:15

when I'm triggered If you see this

32:17

just be aware and so that conversation

32:20

allowed us when we got there to be like, oh It's

32:22

not me and what you said before I was gonna ask like

32:25

I tell this to my guys to like it's not

32:28

Like it's not you That she has

32:30

a feeling about it's her feeling but that's

32:33

really hard Is there anything that you've

32:35

seen that would like help guys get around that

32:37

if they've never experienced that before cuz mom

32:39

would yell at Me dad would yell at me. Whatever. Of

32:41

course, it's my fault How do you even

32:43

like explain to someone that no? She's

32:45

allowed to have emotions and while you might have done something

32:48

to get those like it's not your fault

32:50

So to speak so maintain that calm. Can we

32:52

like build

32:53

Yeah Let me let me finish this real quick because

32:55

that that whole idea of of emotional

32:57

safety with kids What it does is when we cut when

32:59

we come down and everyone else comes down that

33:01

actually triggers the higher Functioning parts of

33:03

the brain behind the eyes, which is the prefrontal

33:05

cortex It's responsible

33:07

for emotion regulation cognitive flexibility

33:11

social skills Self

33:13

control and problem solving. Well,

33:16

that's exactly what you want to do. You want to engage

33:18

your kid's brains. You want to engage your

33:20

spouse's brains. I mean, this, this is across,

33:22

I mean, you can, I talk about

33:24

it in parenting. I talk about it in, in marriage. Essentially

33:27

what we want to do is we want to be able to bring

33:29

everybody to a place where we can actually

33:31

have emotion regulation. We can think

33:34

straight, we can problem solve, but

33:36

that requires, and you said

33:38

it so beautifully, and I think this is the key,

33:41

if we could simplify this, is

33:43

for our wives and our children to be

33:45

seen, that they feel

33:47

seen, that they,

33:50

and this is where 15 minutes a day with your

33:52

spouse actually helps this process,

33:54

is because they know you're being, my

33:56

wife knows I'm being intentional, she knows

33:58

I'm pursuing her heart, she already knows

34:00

these things, and so You know, I,

34:03

what you mentioned, this is, I'm going to go to the, I'm

34:05

going to answer your question here by going to this whole idea

34:07

in marriage of, of communication. I think

34:10

communication is so overrated.

34:12

And the reason I say that is because

34:14

it's not communication. That

34:17

is the issue. What it is.

34:19

There was a, a study done recently that

34:21

said that, the, the,

34:23

the thing the couples argue

34:31

you're not It's don't and

34:35

was make

34:37

any us

34:51

I was like. to

34:54

like

34:55

I react. to

35:00

our

35:05

cuz

35:09

in

35:11

like that

35:18

their heart see

35:21

you. Let me come alongside

35:23

you in this journey, and

35:25

I don't need to fix it, I just want you to know I'm

35:27

present with you, I'm here beside

35:30

you, and let's figure this out. And

35:32

99. 9 percent of the time,

35:34

that's all Christy needs and it's all I ever need. I

35:36

don't need Christy to fix me, she doesn't need

35:38

me to fix her, we just need to know that we're

35:40

in it together, and that we're there for one

35:42

another. And that's gonna, that's gonna,

35:45

you know, so, so, that's

35:47

gonna heal 99 percent of your arguments, is just

35:49

making sure the other person feels seen. And,

35:52

but I, but as I said, it's easier to talk

35:54

about this stuff than it is to live it out. And

35:56

that's why I said, this is a lifelong journey

35:58

of really choosing to enter

36:01

into the emotional

36:03

world and not see emotions as a,

36:06

as an enemy or as something you

36:08

need to avoid, but is something

36:10

that if you embrace, you

36:12

will find more joy in your life

36:14

and more connection in your relationships than you ever

36:17

knew existed.

36:19

Yeah, and I think that's really good

36:21

to see because if you turn that into what you

36:23

need rather than just looking out

36:25

Go like well, what do I need? And I think that's

36:28

what helped me get more

36:30

comfortable with that. Oh, I have an emotion

36:32

right now That's okay, because

36:34

I'm having a reaction to something. So when

36:36

other people have that emotion Oh, it

36:38

must just be how they react to it. And

36:40

I've got a different life experience than they do So it'll

36:42

be different things Okay.

36:45

So it might not be my fault,

36:47

so to speak, but I can be there.

36:49

And this is really good. I, an example of just this morning,

36:52

we just got a puppy and everyone's

36:54

like a little bit, dude, everyone's

36:57

a little bit on edge. Like we

36:59

sort of, I was praying and God was like,

37:01

do you trust me? And he's like, I was like, yeah, he's like, go

37:03

get a dog. And I was like, No. Like,

37:06

why would you make me do that? And so we have

37:08

this puppy now and everyone's been

37:10

on edge. Everyone's like, it's hard to put the baby

37:12

down because the puppy's there. And my wife

37:14

sort of left the house this morning to give me some time

37:16

in a little bit of a huff. And what

37:19

I saw was, Hey, I'm also feeling

37:21

that I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm

37:23

feeling heightened in my reactive state.

37:25

The kids are feeling this way. And so

37:27

instead of me, I could tell, I was like, Oh,

37:30

I want to tell her like, don't talk like that. Don't talk

37:32

to the kids like that. You know better than that. But

37:34

what I did was, Hey, there's

37:36

only going to be a few more weeks of this. And I see you're really

37:38

overwhelmed right now. That's okay. I'm also

37:40

feeling this way. The kids are also feeling this way.

37:42

So let's just have a breath

37:45

together and do our best to

37:47

stay connected. And it didn't

37:49

fix anything. She didn't be like, Oh, thank you.

37:51

But it didn't escalate. And it showed that I

37:53

was noticing. And I know that she's

37:56

doing her best. I know that she's trying. So

37:58

in terms of stories that like literally just happened

38:00

and it took me being able to

38:02

see it.

38:03

Hey guys, Kurt here. Just wanted to take a moment

38:05

to tell you about our private training community,

38:08

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38:10

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slash. Legacy. Enjoy the rest

39:02

of the podcast.

39:03

Today or sorry yesterday when

39:06

I was sort of I was in a hard place because

39:08

things weren't working the way I wanted them to And

39:11

I went and I talked to my

39:13

to my mentors And by the end of the day,

39:15

I was like, wait a second. I

39:17

just talked to four men Between

39:20

50 and 78 years old. I

39:22

have four men in my life who are willing to

39:24

do that. I just talked to a number of local

39:26

friends. I went out for coffee today with

39:29

a friend. I journaled, I've got guys in

39:31

my online group. I've got, and I went,

39:33

Oh, I've done it. God's provided

39:35

this group of men to surround

39:37

me too. I mean, cliche, iron

39:39

sharpens iron. So absolutely

39:42

fundamental. So you said like all my favorite

39:44

things, journaling, being surrounded by other

39:46

men, actually like. Yeah, just

39:48

just doing all of that on an intentional

39:50

path to grow And

39:53

I think if you're listening to this podcast, you probably

39:55

already understand the growth mindset versus fixed mindset

39:58

but if you haven't you can get better at this and that's what i'm trying

40:00

to do here is like Nobody ever told me

40:02

that I could be a better dad I

40:04

just saw my dad and I was like, the only

40:06

thing I learned was if you get tired of your wife, you get another one.

40:09

And I didn't want to do that.

40:11

So I guess I just suffer. And

40:13

so hearing all of this stuff, it's like, guys, there's action

40:16

steps. There's literal things you can

40:18

do, but they take discomfort. And

40:20

then I think about like, well, I had a coach one time

40:23

and they said, don't strong men do hard things.

40:25

I was like, yeah. They're like, well, why don't

40:27

you feel your emotions then? I was like, Oh, don't say that.

40:30

Like that's too hard, but it was exactly the

40:32

right thing. Right? So you got to do the hard thing

40:34

to feel uncomfortable so that when it actually gets

40:36

uncomfortable, you can be okay with it, man,

40:39

this is so good. But I love what you said about that

40:41

primary relationship. I think,

40:43

and this is just my own journey and I'm sure I've heard

40:45

this somewhere, I don't know where to give credit, but I

40:48

think that God, the father is the only one who can

40:50

ever fill that father sized hole left in your heart from an

40:52

infant. A father who never showed up. And

40:54

I know I felt that, I know I was looking

40:56

elsewhere to fill that father sized hole, like, Oh,

40:59

does this work? Does this work? And it was always

41:01

no, but God, the father came

41:03

in just like overwhelmingly

41:06

abundantly cup overflowing

41:08

filled that up. And I hope

41:11

that if you're listening to this and you don't have that

41:13

relationship, please seek it. And if you

41:15

do, remind yourself of the truth, and that's

41:17

what my journey has been about recently.

41:19

Is what does God say about me? What

41:21

does God say He is as a father?

41:24

And then just like abiding in that. And

41:26

you're right, man. I'm just like, what do I have

41:28

to worry about? Like, this is awesome. And of

41:30

course, I trip all the time.

41:32

But you're so right. That is like primary

41:35

to all of this. So thank you for bringing that up.

42:08

and reading David

42:10

and King David's, it's

42:12

kind of like a voyeuristic look into

42:15

his journal, into his diary, where

42:17

he's facing, as a leader,

42:20

literal death by his enemies.

42:23

And you see him show up. talking

42:26

about how he drenches his couch all

42:28

night long in tears. And this

42:30

is a man who killed a bear with his bare

42:32

hands, and yet also

42:34

writes poetry, and talks about his emotions,

42:37

and known as the man after God's own heart.

42:40

And so, reading just

42:42

a psalm or two every morning, as

42:44

a man, as a father, as a husband, has

42:47

been one of the most significant game

42:49

changers for me in terms of my experiencing,

42:52

a love letter from the father and how he's

42:54

fighting for me and how he's showing up for me. And

42:57

so, I just find, again,

42:59

you gotta find what works for you, but

43:01

that's, that's a practice that has really

43:03

stuck with me, and has helped me, as you

43:05

were saying, Kurt, just experiencing

43:08

the father and that God

43:10

shaped hole in our heart that

43:15

Yeah, it's so interesting that you said love

43:18

letter, because that is the, the word

43:20

that came up with this journal idea that

43:22

I'm creating right now. It's basically

43:24

love letters in the margins of a journal from

43:27

God, because I noticed that I write

43:29

and I'll forget, I'll be like, I'll be lamenting

43:31

on my blank journal pages. God, why

43:34

are you doing this to me? What am I missing? What do

43:36

I need? It feels like you're not there.

43:38

But imagine if every page in the margin was just

43:40

a little love note a little psalm from from the

43:42

father So anyway, i'm gonna release

43:45

that in a little bit. I'm figuring that out right now but

43:47

I have a couple of questions from guys

43:49

that I work with a couple of last minute

43:51

questions here and one of them is

43:53

if let's say, you know, you you've got

43:55

older kids and i'm just gonna say Let's

43:58

just, I'm not even gonna say older kids, let's say like

44:00

5 to 15 and

44:03

you haven't been doing this, you've been reactive,

44:05

you haven't known about emotions, and now your

44:07

kids show that

44:09

because your kids are the way you, they are because you're the way

44:11

you are typically. So let me just

44:13

read this. My biggest challenge right now is my two older

44:16

sons, neural pathways are so well worn that

44:18

the instant they don't feel safe, they dysregulate and go

44:20

into fight, flight, screaming, rage, damaging

44:22

brothers or property would like to know strategies

44:24

for teaching them to feel what's happening in their bodies

44:26

and be able to off ramp before raging.

44:29

And he says, these are the same skills that I'm learning as a dad,

44:31

but I don't know how to do it for their brains being less developed.

44:40

and his 14 year old daughter had come

44:42

home from school and she wanted to go to a Friday night football

44:45

game And her dad said No, and

44:47

she looked at her dad and she said dad I hate you

44:49

and she went storming to her bedroom and

44:52

now you can imagine as a dad

44:54

you know the reaction the amygdala the

44:56

the the The fight, fight or freeze

44:59

response that we would have to that, you

45:01

know, I want to describe emotional

45:03

safety here because the posture of emotional

45:06

safety is not punishing the negative emotions.

45:08

You have to realize that when your kids

45:10

are reacting the way that they are, there's

45:12

something going on within their inner world.

45:15

That is, that is happening that they might not even

45:17

know how to put language to. And so,

45:19

you know, the negative emotion

45:22

might be looking at her and saying, don't you ever speak to

45:24

me that way again. You go to your room, I'm taking

45:26

your phone for a month, and no, you're not going to that Friday

45:28

night football game. Do you understand me? And

45:31

so often what ends up happening is, is we punish

45:33

the negative emotion and it builds a wall between

45:35

our heart and our child's heart. so

45:38

the other way that we do this is to

45:40

dismiss the negative emotion. Dismissing

45:43

a negative emotion would be saying something

45:45

to the effect of, don't be mad at me.

45:48

Or minimizing it would be saying,

45:50

it's just a Friday night football game, who cares?

45:53

But the posture of emotional safety is our

45:55

ability as a father to

45:58

enter into our child's world and

46:00

to say, honey, what is it about that Friday

46:02

night football game that matters to you so much?

46:05

And in this instance, this girl had

46:07

been rejected by a group of friends that she hung

46:09

out with in the. And

46:11

this was the first Friday night they invited her to

46:13

be a part of something, and her dad said no.

46:16

so, know, here she

46:18

is seeing them posting pictures on

46:21

Instagram and Snapchat, they're hanging out without her, now

46:23

they're inviting her into something. And

46:25

her overreaction wasn't

46:27

because she hated her dad, it was because she

46:30

wanted so badly to be accepted

46:32

by these friends at school. And

46:34

he, you know, as dads, we could even be

46:37

jumping in and going, well, what if they reject

46:39

you there? And they don't, they aren't really true friends.

46:41

And we can jump into advice giving and we can jump

46:43

into, you know, well, my

46:45

experience with this, but they're,

46:48

they're not listening to that because they're not

46:50

feeling seen. Remember it comes back to.

46:54

And so helping your kids feel seen

46:56

by saying what really is going on

46:58

with X, Y, or Z, whatever that situation

47:00

is. In this case, it was a Friday night football game. Tell

47:02

me more about that. And I say

47:05

to dads, you know, your three greatest words,

47:07

really in a situation like this are tell me

47:09

more. Tell me more. And,

47:12

and it allows our children

47:14

to feel seen as they reveal

47:17

what is going on in their inner world. And

47:19

then once they feel seen.

47:22

Then we have the

47:25

all the clout in the world because to

47:27

enter in and start giving it, you know, maybe

47:31

you're not giving advice right away, but at least

47:33

guiding decision making and

47:35

coming together and problem solving because

47:37

now our brains are all at a place where we can

47:39

actually they're calm, you know, and

47:41

we can communicate in a healthy manner. And

47:43

so I think just that posture

47:45

of emotional safety of saying what

47:47

is it about this? It's important. Tell

47:50

me more.

47:52

And so let's I just, I know a little bit about this situation.

47:54

So imagine, let's say, you know, eight

47:56

and 10 year old boys really

47:58

hyper reactive because of dad's

48:01

former way of dealing, which would be yelling and anger

48:03

and overwhelm, and they just

48:05

like really quickly go to anger and fighting

48:07

and it's almost making the,

48:09

the home. Run from

48:12

the children's perspective because they're so disruptive.

48:15

This was kind of my story. So I resonate

48:17

a lot with this but in those moments

48:19

where like some kid does something wrong

48:21

The other one goes what are you doing that for and there's fighting and stuff

48:23

like that What what are you recommending

48:25

to get there to have that conversation to say?

48:28

you know tell me more when they're just

48:30

like super elevated. Do you have any suggestions

48:32

on that?

48:34

they're super elevated, the elevation

48:37

has to come down. And so you've

48:39

got to be able to bring

48:41

it down in some level in order for there to be

48:43

any conversation or helpful conversation

48:45

had in that moment.

48:47

And so, you know, there's there's a couple different ways

48:49

that you can do this. And one of those

48:52

ways https: otter.

48:54

ai Ahead of time and

48:56

being proactive, it's similar to 15 minutes

48:59

going, okay, the next time

49:01

this happens, when

49:03

you feel like you have been, you know,

49:05

you got a toy taken from you and that

49:08

just ticked you off because your brother took a toy and you

49:10

lost it. Next time your brother takes a toy,

49:12

what would be another way? What do

49:14

you need the

49:18

next time your brother takes a toy? What do you need

49:21

in order to be able to not

49:23

react in anger, but to take a moment and calm

49:25

down? Are you feel the anger boiling up? What?

49:27

What is your go to? Do you need a punching bag to go

49:30

punch? Do you need to just get outside and go for a run?

49:32

What do you need to rechannel your anger and

49:34

for that dad to be open about guys?

49:37

I'm really sorry because I wasn't a great model

49:39

for you for this. I. I reacted this way

49:41

for so long and I'm learning

49:44

and, and I really want to help you guys learn a new

49:46

way as I'm learning a new way. I

49:48

want to help you guys learn a new way to channel your

49:50

anger. And so here's mine, right?

49:52

And so it's almost like, Hey, I'm going to be

49:55

vulnerable enough. Now, obviously you're not putting

49:57

your, you know, your emotional overwhelm on your

49:59

kids or your. Burden, you don't want to burden

50:01

your kids with your journey, but at the same

50:03

time, you're teaching your kids about your journey

50:06

so that they realize, Oh, dad's

50:08

dad's on this journey too. And now

50:10

we're coming up with ways when we're not in the overwhelm,

50:12

because when everyone's overwhelmed, it's

50:15

nothing positive is happening in that moment.

50:17

There's nothing good being accomplished. And

50:19

so to be proactive with it, to.

50:22

To look back on when it did happen and

50:24

say what would be a way? How do you need

50:26

to be seen here? What is it that you care about

50:28

and what is it that you need to be seen from your brother

50:31

next time? And then, you know, have them learn

50:33

how to communicate about it. Well, you

50:35

know, I feel like he doesn't care about my toys. Well,

50:37

okay. So, you know, and now you're, now

50:39

you're, you know. role playing you

50:42

can even role playing is huge for this like

50:44

so not only are we talking about it now

50:46

We're also going to role play if this happens

50:48

next time Let's role play it out

50:51

So that what would be a healthier

50:53

more helpful option for you to feel seen

50:55

for your brother to feel seen and for you guys to come

50:58

down and and and have

51:00

a newer way to navigate

51:03

your anger and over in

51:05

the moment

51:06

Yeah that's really good. And I can throw my

51:09

personal way behind that. Cause that's what we had to do. There's

51:11

a lot of that kind of stuff. And is

51:13

it ever too late to

51:16

reconnect?

51:17

mean, you

51:18

Let yeah.

51:22

Yeah,

51:25

60, 70, 80 year olds. I just

51:27

can't even begin to describe that.

51:32

that's exactly what I was hoping you'd say, because

51:35

I get this man. Like when you're in it. The,

51:39

the, the redemption arc that I

51:41

had a guy in my podcast, Rory recently. And he said,

51:43

you know what he said? I don't know, but

51:45

maybe your redemption, maybe God's redemption

51:48

story for your life is going to be more impactful on

51:50

your future generations than if you had been good this

51:52

whole time. And I was like, Oh man,

51:54

that is so good. And that same

51:56

thing I see my mom, I see like

51:58

all, all these things, all these people in my

52:00

family going through. So if you're in

52:03

that moment where you're just like, Oh, I don't know what to do.

52:05

This is never working. It's not too

52:07

late. It's never going to be too late. And if you've got

52:09

time for one last one. All

52:12

right. All right. First,

52:15

I thought you were just like, nope, never got in time

52:17

for another question. See ya. anyway,

52:20

I've got another question from

52:22

a man who's had a hard time connecting with his wife.

52:25

He's trying to communicate, but it comes

52:27

off, almost, a formulaic

52:29

and not really on the connection level, not

52:31

the, not the next level of seeing. And

52:34

she's almost. Withdrawn so much

52:36

that she has no more interest in listening.

52:39

Is there a way, or have you seen

52:41

ways, for men to rebuild emotional

52:43

safety with a wife who seems to be

52:45

kind of checked out?

52:50

see this a lot, I see it a lot

52:53

where a man finally is coming

52:55

back to, for the first time in his life,

52:57

he's coming into a place of seeing

53:00

his emotions, feeling his emotions, and

53:02

his wife has just been, you

53:04

know, at him for years to see her.

53:06

And he just didn't and now all of a sudden she's

53:09

checked and and it's a hard

53:11

place to be because you have to I think the first place

53:13

you have to realize is is your

53:16

emotional awakening if you

53:18

will as a man cannot

53:21

expect our wives to

53:24

respond immediately

53:26

and get angry immediately to

53:28

all of the years of of

53:32

of our own neglect, our emotional neglect in

53:34

a way, and I don't, I hate to say it as neglect.

53:36

I mean, in some cases it might be neglect, but

53:38

where our wives feel neglected, they, they legit

53:41

feel neglected. so

53:43

we can't expect them to just all of a

53:45

sudden, you know, for an, I'm sorry

53:48

to right the ship after years of, of brokenness,

53:51

especially from her end and the perceived.

53:55

And so I think that's a key one. I think another

53:58

thing is to give her time to

54:00

say, Hey, listen, I want to pursue you. I'm

54:02

sorry. It starts with repentance. It always starts

54:04

with repentance. I'm sorry. And

54:06

I want to make this right. And if

54:08

there's ever a part of this journey that

54:10

you can help me make it right, please tell

54:13

me what's working and what's not working you.

54:16

You know, how do you feel seen? I want to know. I want

54:18

to learn. I want to, I want to learn how, how

54:20

I can help you feel seen. And so. You

54:22

know, our friend, our mentor, Jeremy Pryor,

54:24

I remember him saying one time with his wife

54:26

April, he said, I want to get a Ph. D. in April.

54:29

I want to get a Ph. D. in, you know, and I'm like,

54:31

I tell men, like, that's such a great phrase,

54:34

to get a Ph. D. in your wife, so

54:36

that you can really know her, know

54:38

her heart, and really enter

54:40

into there. So I think that's the first one, is expectation,

54:43

is to really Pay attention to your expectation because

54:45

that's just gonna build a bigger wedge in

54:47

and it can feel formulaic. That's

54:50

often what happens. And so I tell guys

54:52

a lot, you know, to

54:54

really do your best to find

54:56

what really helps her feel seen.

54:58

And then Baby steps

55:01

take small steps toward helping her feel

55:03

seen so that it doesn't feel formal like

55:05

the 15 minutes a day doesn't but simply just

55:07

sitting down, you know It

55:09

you know, random time spontaneously.

55:12

Hey, you know, tell me tell me when you

55:14

a positive emotion You had today when did

55:16

you feel brave? Did you feel sighted? Did you feel

55:19

I just want to you know here? And and

55:21

if she doesn't like that, then don't try it again, you know,

55:23

but just try it say, you know, let's just see

55:25

you know To me, this

55:28

really comes into play when you

55:30

can know your wife's love languages, when

55:32

you can know what your wife, how

55:34

she feels seen, and just ask

55:36

her and communicate about it. Remember, made

55:39

a communication is the big deal. Made a communication.

55:42

And it may get to a place too where you want to sign up for

55:44

a marriage intensive or a group marriage

55:46

intensive or that type of thing and say, Hey, I really

55:48

want to pursue this. I know that I

55:50

neglected this for years and you probably

55:53

were crying for it or screaming for it or asking

55:55

me for it for years and I didn't follow through

55:57

and I'm really sorry. So

55:59

if you don't want to do this right now, I understand

56:02

that and I understand it'll take time. And

56:04

so let me know when you're ready because I'm going to be ready

56:06

because I want to pursue your heart. And sometimes

56:09

that wives just have to grieve that hope

56:11

those years that they feel like they lost before

56:13

they're ready to move forward. And so I,

56:15

I would just say tread cautiously, as

56:18

you pursue her heart, but do

56:20

so in a way that helps her feel seen and, and

56:22

focus on meta communication, communication about

56:24

how you're communicating so wrong

56:32

and you're not even realizing it. You think you're actually

56:34

being sincere when you're being sincerely wrong and

56:36

how you're communicating.

56:41

That's really good. Thank you very much for that. And

56:44

thanks for being here. I'm

56:46

curious if, before we get to where people can find

56:48

you, is there anything that you think from

56:50

this conversation, and again, I apologize for

56:52

my sort of verbosity on this subject,

56:54

because it's so big in my life and I wanted

56:57

To get so much of your brain and your wisdom

56:59

that I appreciate you rolling with me. Is

57:02

there anything from this conversation

57:04

that you think would be a good next step that

57:07

we haven't got to? And if not, please just let us

57:09

know where we can get more of

57:11

Josh and Famous at Home Amazing,

58:03

man. I'm really glad that you guys do all of that because,

58:05

I'm always looking for places to send

58:07

guys. And now that I know this works with

58:09

like, what worked for me with the Bible, I'm like,

58:12

just go to, just go to Josh. It's going to be fine.

58:14

All right, man. Thank you very much.

58:33

and spiritual growth with your home, you can check

58:35

that out as well.

58:37

That sounds awesome. Okay, man. Thank you so much

58:39

for this. I appreciate it.