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so even the best idea

0:43

needs direction need someone

0:45

to help you get to the heart of the matter and really

0:47

figure out what is the gym in the

0:49

midst of the pile of all of the

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0:56

the role that an

0:57

editor plays in the

0:59

role of editor can take many forms it can

1:01

be a friend who helps you get to

1:03

the heart of the idea you can be a creative

1:05

director in the organization

1:06

or a can be an actual editor

1:09

and onto the issue we have an actual editor

1:11

we have nicky papadopoulos nicky has

1:13

edited probably frankly many of

1:15

the books that are sitting on your shelf right now she's

1:18

have that many many high profile authors and

1:20

she also edited my book called hurting

1:22

tigers and we're going to talk about

1:24

how to get to the just have an idea how

1:27

do you know when an idea is right and then had you

1:29

prune away all of the non

1:31

essentials so that your idea is

1:33

pure and that it resonates

1:35

deeply with the audience

1:36

you're trying to reach

1:38

and has its intended and where

1:41

it is a great privilege

1:43

sat on the show to nancy that very

1:46

sincerely digging nicky papadopoulos

1:48

nicky is my editor

1:51

at portfolio on my book hurting tigers

1:53

and she is a profound

1:56

thinker and a sister

1:58

of ideas and some who

2:00

I have tremendous respect for, especially

2:03

with her ability to get to the heart of the matter

2:06

very quickly. Thank you for having me, Todd. I'm

2:08

so excited to be on. Awesome.

2:11

I obviously just gave a little bit of

2:13

the reason why I wanted to have you on the show. I

2:15

know there are a lot of people out there who

2:18

have to, they have to get to the heart

2:20

of the matter quickly when they're trying to do a complex

2:22

project or they're trying to communicate with

2:24

someone. You've edited any

2:27

number of books that probably are sitting on

2:29

people's shelves right now that they have no idea

2:31

you edited that have had tremendous

2:33

cultural impact. So I want to get into

2:35

some of that. I want to talk about how you think about

2:38

ideas and how you push people to get to

2:40

their best idea. But before we

2:42

do that, how did you get into editing

2:44

books? I mean, is this like from birth

2:46

you said someday I will be editing? Or

2:48

is it like what was the journey like for you to

2:51

get to this place?

2:53

Thank you. And thank you for

2:55

your comment about the books being on people's

2:57

shelves. I mean, that's certainly the goal,

3:00

right? Is that we produce work

3:03

that helps people and that influences people.

3:06

And I think

3:08

your community especially is a

3:10

community that we value a lot at Portfolio

3:13

and that we're actively trying to help and to

3:15

reach.

3:17

But let me answer your

3:19

other question.

3:20

So I don't think I ever

3:22

really knew what an editor was for the longest

3:24

time because I didn't grow

3:26

up in a family of publishing people and

3:28

I wasn't surrounded by

3:30

publishing people.

3:33

So I grew up mostly in

3:35

Greece before the internet.

3:37

So information was scarce and

3:40

rare and books especially books

3:42

that are hard to find. So

3:44

if I hoarded them and I read as many of them

3:46

as I could, my

3:48

high school book about God was served

3:50

in feminism and cultural history

3:53

and a lot of really dorky fantasy

3:55

and sci-fi novels which we can talk about

3:57

someday. And I was always

3:59

really

7:46

thought

8:00

and some of the transformational

8:02

business books that you've edited, it's kind

8:04

of funny that that would be a question, but I think

8:06

people can probably relate to that. I'm sure there are many artists

8:09

out there who are probably getting the same questions from

8:11

their parents even as they're listening. So

8:14

I want to talk about the process of editing

8:17

a book. And really, I think that this process

8:19

applies to any kind of editing

8:21

that we do in our life. If we're

8:23

doing a project, we're trying to create something for a

8:25

client, I think a lot of the same principles apply.

8:28

But specifically, in your process,

8:30

when you initially hear an idea for a book,

8:32

how do you know that it's one that you want to work on, one

8:34

that you want to acquire and then help

8:37

edit?

8:37

I mean, there is a set of questions that

8:39

you learn to run through when you

8:41

encounter

8:43

a new project after

8:46

a few years of doing this kind of work. And

8:49

I imagine it's not totally unlike what happens

8:51

in Hollywood or what happens with venture

8:53

capitalists. What is

8:56

this? Who is it for? How do we

8:58

talk about it? What does it remind me of?

9:00

How do we signal in the package

9:03

that people know that it's for them? And

9:06

what value can we add to

9:08

it that

9:10

no one else can add in order for it to reach

9:12

a wide audience? So

9:14

those are really publishing questions

9:16

more than editorial questions. But

9:18

I do think that they are really important. When

9:21

it comes to the idea itself, one

9:23

thing that I like to say is an

9:26

idea is not a topic. It's

9:28

not like managing your career

9:30

is not an idea. An idea

9:33

is a statement that someone

9:35

can and will

9:36

disagree with.

9:38

And a great

9:41

example of this, and he's really

9:43

good at this kind of shorthand, but it's the work of Simon

9:45

Sinek. Start with why is

9:47

a statement that not everybody agrees with. Or

9:50

the last is a statement that not everybody

9:53

agrees with. And it's an idea. And

9:55

if you hear that idea and it

9:58

resonates with you and it's... touches

10:00

something that you kind of thought that you might already

10:02

be on to, you know that

10:07

that book is for you. So

10:10

that's kind of how we think about the idea

10:12

piece. Now that's not always, not

10:15

every book is about arguing an idea, right?

10:19

A lot of books offer a different kind of

10:21

service to the reader. And so that's also

10:24

a question that we ask, like what is the service

10:26

being offered to the reader

10:27

in this book?

10:29

Is it offering comprehensiveness,

10:32

right? Like our mutual friend Josh Kaufman

10:34

wrote a book called The Personal MBA. Well,

10:37

the value proposition of the personal MBA

10:40

is you don't have to go to business school, you

10:42

can read this book. And

10:47

another kind of book, the value proposition offered

10:49

to the reader might be, you're going to read this

10:52

book and you're going to feel something. You're

10:54

going to feel motivated. You're going to feel

10:56

confident. You're going to feel less afraid

10:59

or you're going to feel empowered. So it kind

11:02

of depends on like, what

11:04

is the book trying to achieve? And

11:08

has the author got a

11:10

strong enough plan for how they're going to achieve it?

11:12

Yeah. And that's always, I mean, again, even

11:14

that's a subjective thing, right? I'm sure

11:16

there probably have been books that you thought were

11:18

going to be smash successes that ended up

11:21

not. And books that are surprise hits

11:23

that you had no clue were going

11:25

to be that way.

11:28

Is there any rhyme or reason about why some ideas

11:30

take off and others don't, in

11:32

your opinion? A

11:33

lot has to do with the cultural moment

11:36

into which the book is published.

11:38

And that is something that we can never be 100% sure about. When

11:43

we published Girl Boss,

11:45

that was the right moment for that book. I think

11:47

if that book had been published in the

11:51

Reagan 80s, it would have not met with

11:54

the same audience at the same moment

11:57

with the same message that they needed

11:58

to hear. And the reason

12:00

that that book worked was because

12:02

there was a cohort of young women who

12:04

were coming into the world,

12:07

into the professional world, and

12:09

having this sense of dissatisfaction that while

12:11

they were very ambitious, the traditional

12:15

structures of the professional world

12:17

were not really for them. And that book

12:19

came along, Sophia came along and said, you

12:22

can be a boss, even

12:24

though you're a young woman. You can be on the cover

12:26

of your own business book. That is a

12:28

thing that is now available to you. And

12:31

that was huge. Now if

12:33

someone comes along and does that today, it doesn't

12:35

have the same

12:36

impact.

12:38

And it could be just as good of a book

12:40

and they could have

12:41

just as good of a story. But you can't recreate

12:43

that moment of the cultural zeitgeist.

12:45

It does seem like there's almost like the earthquake

12:48

and then there are the tremors that follow the earthquake,

12:50

right? Like the aftershocks. Right.

12:53

People always try to capitalize on, like, you

12:55

know, a couple of years ago there were a handful

12:57

of books that are really just like one

13:00

or two books that came out with profanity in the title.

13:02

And then all of a sudden you see profanity everywhere

13:04

in titles. And it's like people think that that's

13:07

the reason it was successful versus the

13:09

idea, you know, or whatever. But it is kind

13:11

of maddening. You

13:14

know, because to your point, or your earlier point,

13:16

this idea that, you know, because people,

13:18

I mean, as I'm sure they do with

13:21

you, you're probably less accessible

13:23

to people than I am from the standpoint

13:25

of like, hey, I've got a book idea. Can I run it by

13:27

you? Right. Like I get that all the time

13:29

because people know I write books and I'm always happy

13:31

to talk to people and help them. But

13:34

often I hear something like my book is about

13:36

how to market your business better. That's

13:39

not a book. Like, that's like

13:42

good advice. Like market

13:44

your business better. That's fine. But it's

13:46

not a book. I mean, a book to your point, your earlier

13:48

point, I mean, a book has to have a point of view.

13:51

And that's maybe something that you're willing to drive a stake

13:53

in the ground and say, here I stand and

13:56

I'm going to offend some people maybe even

13:58

with what I say. offend some people,

14:00

you probably don't really have a point of view with

14:03

your book. You

14:06

mentioned Simon's books earlier. I

14:09

had that same experience with Die Empty. I

14:11

got so many hate emails from people

14:13

who just hated

14:16

that title and they were really, really mad at me. But

14:18

the people who got it really, really loved it. They really

14:21

understood it and got it. You

14:23

have to be willing to take a risk like that with

14:25

your idea. If it doesn't

14:27

feel a bit abrasive, then

14:30

you probably don't really have anything

14:32

yet.

14:34

Absolutely. It's funny, Todd,

14:36

because I remember internally

14:38

with Die Empty

14:41

that we had a lot of, as with every book, we had

14:43

a lot of conversations about the book. But

14:47

the psychographic profile of the

14:49

reader for that book was never in question.

14:52

Nobody ever asked, well, who is this for anyways?

14:54

Because it was so clear that it was going

14:57

to be for some people and not for

14:59

other people.

15:00

Yeah.

15:01

I still get that to this day.

15:04

Frankly, I still remember the emails back and forth too

15:06

where we were discussing alternative potential

15:09

titles for that book, none

15:12

of which were really all that great. But I know that

15:14

there was, I could sense that there was some trepidation

15:16

about what to call it.

15:19

I do remember, I think actually it was

15:21

Adrian Zakim, I do remember a

15:24

planted flag Die

15:26

Empty is the title of the book. I

15:28

think that's actually what it came down to, which

15:31

I really appreciate. But

15:33

I do think that when you're thinking about ideas,

15:38

especially titles and containers and things like

15:40

that, I would love

15:42

to hear your perspective on

15:45

how do you think about, when

15:47

an idea for

15:49

a book or you think about a set

15:51

of ideas within a book. Because every book isn't

15:54

just one thing. There's a set of ideas

15:56

that have to hold together. How

16:00

do you think about what belongs and what doesn't?

16:02

How do you really get to the heart of, hey,

16:05

these are all good ideas, but some of them

16:07

don't belong

16:10

together. How do you sort through

16:12

that? Authors do not struggle

16:14

with having enough ideas to put

16:16

in a book. Typically it's like, I want to write seven

16:19

books in this book. How do you

16:21

decide what stays and what goes? I

16:23

like to work backwards from the

16:26

imagined use case of the book.

16:29

I like to think about

16:31

who the reader is and what their relationship

16:33

is with this particular book.

16:36

And I have a lot of assumptions about who

16:38

this reader is. My first assumption

16:40

always, and this is very important, is

16:42

that our reader is a reader. They read

16:45

lots of books. I find

16:47

it very difficult to talk about making books for

16:49

people who don't read. That is a very frustrating

16:51

conversation. And I'm not... Some

16:53

people are good at that. I'm not good at

16:55

that. I'm good at thinking

16:57

about how do we make something

17:00

for someone who cares a lot

17:02

about getting information from a book,

17:05

getting an edge from a book, feeling

17:07

like they have a relationship, an intellectual

17:10

relationship with the author of a book.

17:13

That's a relationship I care about very much. And

17:16

honestly, it's because that has been my

17:18

relationship with books throughout my whole life. I

17:21

feel like many of these authors are

17:24

not necessarily friends, but definitely mentors

17:27

and people who I felt like have

17:29

guided me at a particular moment in

17:31

my life. But that relationship has gone two

17:34

ways, right? These authors didn't just show

17:36

up and boss me around.

17:39

I looked for their book because I had a

17:41

particular problem or a

17:43

point of curiosity that I was looking to solve.

17:46

So I work backwards a lot from that relationship.

17:49

That's all very theoretical. Concretely, what that

17:51

means is a lot of times I like to talk to

17:53

an author and I say, what is the reaction

17:55

that you want to have from

17:58

a reader who has found your book? at

18:00

just the right moment. What is the Amazon

18:03

book review look like that

18:05

is success for you? Like

18:08

I met this person at exactly the right moment.

18:11

You and I just had an email exchange

18:14

about herding tigers and about, I don't

18:17

know if you want to talk about it, but about an

18:19

interaction that happened around that book. And

18:22

I thought to myself, that's exactly what

18:24

we were trying to do. That person, that moment,

18:27

that

18:27

is what we're going for.

18:28

So by getting really granular about

18:30

that, I think that helps

18:32

answer a lot of other structural questions about

18:34

what goes in the book and what doesn't.

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21:59

Yeah, all this.

21:59

I think it's really valuable because we forget,

22:02

you know, we don't just make products to

22:04

make products. We make things to

22:06

have an impact, right?

22:09

And that's really what our voice is. It's

22:11

an expression through a medium to achieve an impact.

22:14

And so if you forget about that impact, if you don't work

22:16

backward from that, it's really easy to make

22:18

something and get to the end of the process and say, ta-da.

22:21

And everybody's like, oh, are you still making things? I didn't

22:23

realize you were still making things over there, you know,

22:26

which happens often. And we see books that, you

22:29

know, people launch them with great fanfare

22:31

and people are like, or, or, or,

22:33

because it doesn't really solve a

22:36

problem. It doesn't really have an impact.

22:39

It's kind of a me too book. Not

22:41

me too in the very, you know,

22:44

cultural movement kind of way, but me too. And I like,

22:47

hey, listen to me too. I've got some things to say. Well,

22:49

no, that I mean, you have to step up and really

22:51

claim your space if you want to have impact.

22:54

Definitely.

22:55

Another thing I think is that is important

22:58

and I'm, I'm, I'm stealing all these ideas,

23:00

by the way, like these are all ideas that other people

23:02

have had. Sure. Like specifically

23:05

Seth Godin, but, but, but. By

23:08

the way, you edit Seth's books. Yes, I edit

23:10

that. Seth has been a, has been a huge

23:13

positive force in my life. And

23:17

but I was going to talk about Kathy Sierra, who

23:19

is not one of my, one of my authors, but

23:22

Kathy Sierra has a talk

23:24

where she talks about how,

23:25

you know,

23:28

a

23:28

bad book makes the

23:31

author seem smart, but

23:33

a great book makes the reader feel smart.

23:36

Oh, I love that.

23:38

Oh, I love that. Very important. Yeah.

23:41

And if you don't leave space

23:43

for your reader to, to have

23:47

their own ideas

23:47

and their own reactions and make their own

23:49

connections, if you write your

23:51

book in such a way that this is like, this is everything

23:54

I want to say because I want to say it and it's

23:56

really important to me, that's going to

23:58

be really hard for someone else to connect.

24:01

Yeah, which is, by the way, a lot

24:03

of the people that I sit down with, that's why they're

24:05

writing a book. I have things to say.

24:08

I'm like, that's not a reason

24:10

to write a book. You need to write a book because other people

24:12

have things they need to hear, right? And

24:15

you have to flip it on its head because

24:18

one is a very narcissistic approach

24:20

and the other one is a very empathetic approach, which

24:23

is why I always

24:25

tell people when you write a book, you have to think about one

24:27

person. Not an avatar, not

24:29

a group, not a target market, but think

24:32

about the one person in your life that really

24:34

needs this advice right now. And

24:36

if you were sitting across the table from them, how

24:38

would you offer it to them and write it as if you're

24:40

sitting across the table from them? And if

24:42

you do that, you'll reach a lot of other people too. But

24:45

if you try to write it to a group,

24:48

you're not going to hit anybody, right?

24:50

Because it's not going to feel personal.

24:52

I promise this is the last plug.

24:54

I'm going to have... No, please. Plug as much

24:56

as you

24:57

want. But there is a new book out by

25:00

my friend and mentor, Seth Godin, called This

25:02

Is Marketing that talks about

25:04

a lot of these questions about how do

25:06

you think about what you're making and who it's for

25:09

and how it's going to reach them. And

25:11

it is a terrific book. And

25:14

I would say that even if I didn't publish it. But

25:17

I think especially for people

25:20

who are grappling with...for creatives

25:22

who are grappling with the kinds of questions you're asking

25:24

here, I think it offers a tremendous amount of insight.

25:27

It does. I think that having people like

25:29

us do things like this framework

25:31

has been really helpful to

25:33

me and making things for someone, not

25:36

just for anyone. Just the idea

25:38

of you have to be willing to say it's not for you. That's

25:41

a hard thing for people to do when they're creating

25:44

work and when they feel the pressure of time and space

25:46

and money and their

25:48

boss is screaming at them. If

25:53

your goal is to create impact in the world, you

25:55

have to be willing to say it's not for you. I

25:58

mean Seth, we were talking before we... started recording, but

26:01

Seth and I both spoke at a conference

26:03

about a month and a half ago. And in about

26:06

two minutes, as Seth does, he completely

26:09

reframed the way I'm thinking about my

26:11

latest book and how I'm taking it to market and

26:13

some of the things I'm doing. And the

26:16

biggest chunk of it was this

26:18

idea of, I mean, back to the idea

26:20

of people like us do things like this. What

26:24

do the people I'm trying to reach, what do they do? How do

26:26

they see themselves in the world? And

26:29

what kind of story do they want to live

26:31

out in their life? And I've

26:33

not really been thinking about that. And

26:36

as Seth does, in like two minutes, he completely

26:38

reframed how I think about what I'm doing.

26:41

And the book is just a wonderful articulation

26:44

of many of those same sentiments. So I echo

26:46

your praise for the book for sure. And

26:48

for you, by the way, who

26:51

endured editing that book

26:53

through a pregnancy, which

26:55

was probably not easy. The

26:57

final weeks of my pregnancy, I was

27:00

eight months pregnant when

27:01

Seth Godin called up and said, great news.

27:03

I want to do a book and I want you to edit

27:05

it.

27:07

And I said, oh, you know, like,

27:09

I guess I won't be here when you deliver the manuscript.

27:12

And he said, when are you delivering? And I said, in

27:14

four weeks. And he said, hang on.

27:18

And we... Hang on? Yeah.

27:22

And then I think a week later, a manuscript

27:24

showed up. And we

27:26

just worked on it together every day. And it

27:29

was really wonderful.

27:30

It was really wonderful. That's awesome. All right.

27:33

So I want to just ask you one more question. And then

27:35

we have a lot of potential authors out there. And

27:37

I know people, which by the way, please do not

27:39

email Nicki. Don't go looking for her email address

27:42

and email her and send her

27:44

something. There's a process for all

27:46

of that. So please honor the process. But

27:49

you

27:49

know... I can tell you what the process is.

27:51

Yeah, please do.

27:52

Okay. Is that helpful?

27:54

I think it would be very helpful. Yeah.

27:56

So I work almost exclusively

27:58

with literary agents. And the

28:01

reason why I do that is not because I'm a snob,

28:03

but because I think it is better for

28:05

the author to have an agent who works for

28:07

them and who represents them. I work for

28:09

Penguin Random House, which is

28:11

an amazing company. We are the

28:13

biggest publisher in North America, but

28:16

it is a big company. So

28:19

I recommend that you have an agent in your foreigner who

28:22

is experienced, who knows the industry

28:24

very well. How do you get an agent?

28:27

Well, you can spam people or

28:30

you can think strategically about the fact that this

28:32

is a people business. And

28:35

you can do things like read the books that

28:37

you think your book is like and

28:40

reach out to those authors and reach out

28:42

to those agents and start to

28:44

build actual connections based around

28:47

shared areas of interest and care.

28:50

Yeah.

28:51

Yeah. And it's interesting because

28:53

the way I landed a portfolio is because

28:56

I had an agent, Melissa

28:59

Sarver-White, who's amazing and

29:01

awesome. And she was helping me. Yeah,

29:03

she's incredible. But one

29:06

of the ways we landed a portfolio is because I

29:08

was so obsessed with the kind of books portfolio

29:10

was publishing that I was just interviewing

29:13

portfolio authors left and right for the podcast.

29:16

And it was just so obvious and evident

29:19

that this is kind of the stable that I

29:21

belonged in if I ever wrote a book because

29:23

so many of the big idea books that

29:26

you all were publishing were just right in my wheelhouse.

29:29

And it's kind of funny because I think you tend

29:32

to gravitate toward the people who think like

29:34

you or the people you tend to find your tribe,

29:36

I think in publishing often. And

29:39

I definitely found my tribe with

29:41

portfolio. I think, again, because

29:43

I was resonating so deeply with the stuff

29:46

that you all were putting out at the time.

29:50

So what advice do you have then for potential

29:52

authors about how to shape their

29:54

content and to get it into the world?

30:00

The cliched advice is to write a lot,

30:02

but it's cliched for a reason,

30:05

right? Like if you want to be

30:06

an Olympic skier, you should probably put some

30:08

skis on at some point. Probably.

30:10

But the

30:13

point at the heart of that advice is not

30:15

just to write, but to share your work

30:18

often and

30:22

to be listening for

30:24

who it is touching and who it is not.

30:27

It's to hoard it,

30:28

because hoarding is a form of hiding,

30:30

and when you tell yourself that you're keeping your idea

30:32

from being stolen, what you really mean

30:34

is that you're hiding your idea

30:36

because you're afraid that people won't

30:38

like it or that it won't be enough.

30:40

So ideas in writing get better

30:42

when you're consistently and softly

30:44

testing them in front of an audience.

30:46

And thanks to the Internet, there's nothing stopping

30:49

you from doing that. You can do it in a newsletter,

30:51

on a blog, you can do Twitter, or if you

30:53

don't even like the Internet, you

30:55

can do it in physical form. There

30:59

are these two amazing women in publishing who

31:01

a couple of years ago started an analog

31:04

newsletter about soup that

31:06

they physically mailed to people who opted

31:08

into a Kickstarter, and it was really successful.

31:11

I mean, if you care about something

31:13

and you want to get better at talking

31:15

about it so that people listen, then just talk

31:17

about it. And if you're doing

31:20

it in a way that is sincere and

31:22

resonant, then publishers

31:24

and agents and all of those kinds of people, they will

31:26

come to you, because our business

31:28

depends on finding you.

31:33

It's funny because each of my, as you say that, each of my

31:35

books started with a blog

31:37

post or a podcast episode,

31:39

right, where I put something out and all of a sudden

31:42

it started spreading and I'm like, oh, I think there's actually

31:44

something here, more than I thought was

31:46

here. But if I had just held

31:48

those things close to the chest, I never may

31:51

have known that there was something there. I

31:53

think that's excellent advice. And people think

31:55

that if I share it, somebody's going to steal

31:58

it, right? And the reality is, listen, they're probably

32:00

already 50 people out there writing

32:02

about the exact same thing. Nobody's going to steal it

32:04

from you.

32:06

But if you don't share it, you may

32:08

never find the space that you

32:11

are wired to occupy. I

32:15

like to tell people that I think a lot of people

32:17

would rather live with the illusion of invulnerability

32:20

than test their limits and actually discover that

32:22

they have some. And so it feels good

32:24

to just live with it. That's a great statement. Yeah,

32:27

I think it feels good to just live with this

32:29

notion that, well, I could be a best-selling author

32:31

if I ever put this out. But I don't really

32:33

have the time to do it. I'm not going to go through the effort.

32:36

It's easy to live with that. Instead

32:39

of putting it out there and realizing, actually,

32:41

I have limits. Actually,

32:43

maybe it's not as good as I thought it was. That's

32:46

a risk worth taking, though, because it's

32:48

only when your work is in the world that you're

32:50

actually going to have impact on the people you're trying

32:52

to reach. So I think that's excellent

32:54

advice. We have been

32:56

talking with the brilliant, the

32:59

eminent Nikki Papadopoulos

33:02

editor at large. That's not actually

33:04

your title, but I think that's an awesome way

33:06

to describe you because you are certainly

33:08

at large in culture. Nikki, if

33:11

people do actually want to find

33:13

you or learn more about you, is there

33:16

any place they can go to do that? I am on

33:18

Twitter,

33:20

reservedly.

33:21

It's

33:23

at Nikki underscore

33:25

Pop.

33:26

By the way, Nikki Pop is what I

33:29

always call you when I'm informally referring to you

33:31

to ... When I'm talking to my agent or I'm talking to Seth

33:33

or anybody, it's like Nikki Pop because it's just so great.

33:36

That's what Seth calls me. Oh,

33:38

really? Okay, that's funny.

33:39

Yeah, it's a thing. I mean, Papadopoulos

33:42

is very long, but I'm on

33:44

Twitter. I would say 95%

33:45

of what I tweet about is books

33:47

that I'm publishing and working on.

33:51

And so if you want to

33:54

connect with me, I am there. I also

33:56

will be hopefully ...

33:59

World Domination Summit this summer.

34:02

The last one. The last one.

34:04

That's where, I think that's where we met in person the

34:06

first time. It's where we first met in person. How

34:08

about that?

34:09

Yeah, it's a wonderful community. I'm

34:11

very sad that it's coming to an end,

34:15

but it was, and you know, we have a lot

34:17

of, we have a lot of authors who

34:19

have gone through there and met each other

34:21

through there, and so I am

34:24

going to the last one.

34:25

Wow, fantastic. Well, Nikki, thanks for

34:27

the work that you do, and thanks for taking the time to share your

34:29

wisdom with us today.

34:31

Thank you, Todd. Thank you for bringing

34:34

it every day with heart and sincerity,

34:36

and I think you do a tremendous service to your listeners,

34:38

to your readers, and I am

34:41

so damn proud of our book together. Well,

34:43

I hope you enjoyed that revisit of a conversation

34:46

from 2018 with Nikki Papadopoulos. If

34:49

you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe

34:52

to the weekly newsletter. It's called Three Things, just three quick

34:54

ideas to get your week off on the right foot. You

34:56

can subscribe at toddhenry.com slash

34:58

subscribe. Remember friends, cover bands

35:01

don't change the world. Don't be a cover band. You need to

35:03

find your unique voice if you want to thrive. We'll

35:05

see you next time.