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0:31

His first impulse isn't just like, hey,

0:33

I'll heal you. His first impulse is

0:35

like, we'll do this other thing. And

0:37

then I'll use the healing as the

0:39

proof that I have the authority to

0:41

do that. Yes. It's almost as if

0:43

the story was carefully crafted to

0:46

tag these rhetorical bases. You didn't hear

0:48

it from me. Hey

0:51

everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

0:54

And I'm Dan Beecher. And

0:57

you are listening to the Data Over

0:59

Dogma podcast, where we increase public access

1:02

to the academic study of the Bible

1:04

and religion and combat the spread of

1:06

misinformation about the same. How are things

1:09

today, Dan? Going well,

1:11

man. I don't have a headache like you do,

1:13

so that's good. I'm

1:15

one up on you anyway,

1:17

so that's great. And

1:20

I'm looking forward to today's show. We got

1:22

some fun stuff. We're going to do a

1:24

Bible versus Bible and

1:28

find some interesting

1:31

contradictions. And then we're

1:33

going to look at the concept

1:35

of sin forgiveness via

1:37

a big hole in the ceiling.

1:40

So that's going

1:42

to be fun. Everyone should stay tuned for that.

1:45

But first, let's do

1:47

Bible versus Bible. All

1:52

right. So what are we talking about today?

1:54

Well, since

1:56

it was your idea, I think you already know.

2:01

is the name of a guy that I had never heard

2:03

of, but he pops up

2:05

in both Second Kings and

2:09

Second Chronicles or just First Chronicles? Second

2:11

Chronicles. So yeah, he's in

2:13

both of these places. It's

2:18

always a bad idea for the Bible to retread

2:21

the same ground because every

2:23

time it does that... It's

2:25

tricky. It's

2:28

a different retelling and they have some different

2:30

things. So why don't you walk us

2:33

through the story... Who is

2:35

Ahaziah? Right.

2:39

So we actually have a

2:41

couple Ahaziahs in this history,

2:44

but Ahaziah is a king

2:46

of Judah. So in

2:48

this period, traditionally we think

2:50

of the United Kingdom that

2:54

was founded by Saul and David and

2:56

Solomon, and then we had the divided

2:58

kingdom. The reality is that there was

3:00

probably never a United Kingdom, that these

3:02

are two kingdoms that developed

3:04

separately and were never... And Judah

3:06

and Israel? Correct. So Judah in

3:09

the south with Jerusalem as home

3:11

base, and then Israel in

3:13

the north with Samaria as

3:16

home base. And the

3:19

northern kingdom of Israel was the larger

3:21

kingdom, the more successful kingdom. And in

3:23

the eighth century, there was a lot

3:25

more economic growth going

3:29

on. There was a lot more cities

3:31

popping up. There was a lot

3:33

more money flowing in. And

3:35

Jerusalem, to the degree that

3:37

it was able to engage in international trade and

3:39

things like that, it was probably through

3:42

the northern kingdom of Israel. And

3:45

Jerusalem doesn't become prominent until

3:48

the fall of

3:50

the northern kingdom of Israel, because they

3:53

kind of take over the identity

3:55

of the northern kingdom of Israel, and

3:57

we get the creation of this history

3:59

where there's a united kingdom.

4:02

But Ahaziah is a king

4:04

in Judah, and we have

4:08

Joram as a king in Israel,

4:10

so that's in the northern kingdom. And

4:13

then Jehu is given Joram a

4:15

hard time. And

4:18

Jehu is some sort

4:20

of antagonist, but a

4:24

powerful dude. Yes, and Jehu

4:26

is actually going to... Jehu

4:29

is one of the earliest figures

4:31

from the Hebrew Bible, for which

4:33

we actually have direct archaeological evidence.

4:37

In fact, even a pictorial

4:40

representation of Jehu, bowing

4:43

down before an Assyrian

4:46

emperor, Jaminizr III, but

4:49

still one of the first ones that we have

4:52

represented anywhere in the late ninth century. But

4:55

we have the story of Ahaziah's

4:58

death, because Ahaziah is considered a

5:01

wicked king. And so

5:03

Jehu is coming after

5:06

Ahaziah. And

5:09

let me see where we got the... He's

5:13

going after Joram first. Jehu drew his

5:15

bow with all his strength. This is

5:17

2 Kings 9 verse 24, and shot

5:19

Joram between the shoulders, so that the

5:21

arrow pierced his heart, and he sank

5:23

in his chariot. Yeah, this

5:25

is like chariot, a bunch of chariot

5:28

stuff. Meet

5:30

each other on the field in

5:32

chariots. Yeah, and we're in the

5:35

Jezreel Valley, which

5:37

is... You got Megiddo over there, the

5:40

Jezreel Valley. You go further north, and you get...

5:43

I'm sorry to interrupt, but... What's that?

5:45

Pronounced Magneto. And

5:49

further north, Nazareth is

5:52

kind of in a little bowl place, where

5:54

if you go up on the hill, you

5:57

can look south over the Jezreel Valley, and on a

5:59

clear... day, maybe you can at

6:02

least pick out where Megiddo would be way off in

6:04

the south. And

6:07

Jehu said to his aide, Bidkar, lift

6:10

him out and throw him on the plot

6:12

of ground belonging to Naboth the Jezreelite. For

6:14

remember when you and I rode side by

6:16

side behind his father Ahab, how the Lord

6:18

uttered this oracle against him that basically he

6:20

was going to die. When

6:24

King Ahaziah of Judah saw this, he

6:26

fled in the direction of Beit Hagan,

6:29

a house of the garden. And this is

6:32

southeast of Megiddo.

6:35

This is basically just over the hill

6:37

from the southern tip of the Jezreel

6:39

Valley. Jehu pursued him, saying,

6:41

Shoot him also. And

6:43

they shot him in the chariot at the

6:46

ascents to Gur, which is by

6:48

Ableum. And then he

6:50

fled to Megiddo and died there.

6:53

His officers carried him in a chariot

6:56

to Jerusalem and buried him in his

6:58

tomb with his ancestors in the

7:00

city of David. So

7:02

all very specific. He

7:05

was riding in his chariot, was

7:08

shot. He

7:10

slumped, but he didn't die yet. It

7:14

was another guy who slumped to the ground. It

7:17

was Joram who was killed. And then Jehu

7:20

was like, Get him too. And

7:23

so he's going to get away.

7:25

And so they shoot Ahaziah in

7:27

his chariot. And

7:29

it says, Then he fled to Megiddo and died there.

7:32

And Megiddo isn't even his...

7:36

Oh yeah. So they

7:38

shot him at the ascents to Gur, meaning

7:40

he was climbing a hill or something in

7:43

the chariot. And then he made

7:46

it to a little town and then

7:48

died. Yeah, it's a little... It's

7:50

out of the way. Like his chair, he turned

7:52

and went another direction. Probably like, I'm not going

7:55

to make it there. I'm going to head to

7:57

this place. I think they can't shoot me if

7:59

I serpentine. Right,

8:01

serpentine. And

8:04

then Ahazai's own officers carried

8:07

him in a chariot to Jerusalem and

8:09

buried him in his tomb with his

8:11

ancestors in the city

8:13

of David. So we've got a clear picture

8:15

of how this happened. And then

8:17

we're going to go to 2 Chronicles. And

8:21

it's funny how many of these

8:23

contradictions are between Samuel King's and

8:25

Chronicles. Samuel

8:27

Kings are basically taking a bunch of records

8:30

and putting together a single

8:32

history of what went on

8:34

with the Kings. And then Chronicles

8:36

are basically doing the same thing, but a

8:38

couple of centuries later. And

8:41

they're like, eh, we don't like what that's doing. We're going

8:43

to take this over here. We're going to carry the 2

8:45

and we're going to slice that out right there. So

8:48

that's not what I heard. What

8:50

I heard happened. Yeah,

8:52

we think whoever

8:55

put together Chronicles certainly had access

8:57

to some version of Samuel King's.

9:00

It certainly wasn't the version exactly as we have it, because

9:02

even in the Dead Sea Scrolls, there's

9:04

a lot going on that's different. And

9:08

this was centuries before that. So some

9:10

version was there, but among other things.

9:13

And also, they were trying to...

9:16

The reason they decided to compose this history

9:18

is because they had certain rhetorical

9:21

goals to speak of their own. And

9:25

then, so we go to 2 Chronicles 22 verse 7,

9:28

but it was ordained by God that the

9:30

downfall of Ahaziah should come about through his

9:32

going to visit Joram. So

9:34

we're on the same page at least

9:36

that Ahaziah and Joram are

9:39

having a game

9:41

night or something. And

9:44

it says, for when he came there, he went

9:46

out with Joram to meet Jehu

9:48

son of Nimshi, whom

9:50

the Lord had anointed to destroy the house

9:53

of Ahab. So Jehu had

9:55

been anointed by Adonai the God

9:57

of Israel, because these

9:59

are... members of the dynasty

10:01

of Ahab. And so

10:03

they've got a, Jehu's

10:06

gonna shut him down. When Jehu

10:08

was executing judgment on the house of

10:10

Ahab, he met the officials of Judah

10:13

and the sons of Ahaziah's brothers

10:15

who attended Ahaziah and

10:17

he killed them. He searched

10:19

for Ahaziah, who

10:22

was captured while hiding in

10:24

Samaria and was brought up

10:26

to Jehu and put to death. They

10:29

buried him, for

10:31

they said, he is the grandson of Jehoshaphat,

10:33

who sought the Lord with all his heart.

10:37

And the house of Ahaziah had no one able to

10:39

rule the kingdom. So end of

10:41

the dynasty here, but we got

10:43

a very different telling of the

10:45

story. Yeah, we've got Jehu executing

10:47

judgment on the house of Ahab,

10:49

the officials of Judah. So remember this is

10:52

the king from Judah, the sons of Ahaziah's

10:54

brothers, all that. They get

10:56

killed, Ahaziah's not there. And

10:59

so they had to go and pound

11:02

the pavement and look for Ahaziah and

11:04

captured him hiding in Samaria. Now this

11:06

is a reference to Shomron, this is

11:08

a reference to a city, not

11:11

the region of Samaria. And

11:15

they, and this is the people who are

11:17

searching for Ahaziah, brought

11:19

him to Jehu and

11:21

the Hebrew is plural,

11:24

which means they put him to death,

11:27

that being the people who sought

11:30

him out and found him in Samaria.

11:32

They, the people who sought him out,

11:34

found him, killed him, buried him.

11:37

And it gives a reason why they would bury their

11:39

enemy. Cause they said, hey, this

11:42

guy's daddy was important, granddaddy

11:44

was important. So we're gonna do

11:46

him the honor of giving

11:48

him a proper burial. So

11:51

right off the bat, we've got

11:53

a number of significant differences between these

11:55

two accounts. Right, I guess a very

11:57

specific set of circumstances or some kind

11:59

of... of plot points, but

12:01

just none of them line up other than

12:04

the cast of characters. And

12:08

even there, like we don't have Joram

12:12

being shot between the shoulder blades and

12:14

slumping down in his chariot, a very

12:17

graphic telling

12:19

of that story. But we

12:21

do have Ahaziah who is hiding

12:24

out and brought to Jehu, which

12:27

is not Jehu commanding his

12:29

men to fire upon Ahaziah

12:31

in his chariot while

12:33

he is fleeing and

12:36

then fleeing to Megiddo and dying

12:38

there. According to 2 Chronicles, he

12:40

was killed before Jehu by Jehu's men

12:43

and then Jehu's men buried him. And

12:45

I think this is one of the

12:47

most explicit contradictions.

12:50

In 2 Chronicles, it is Jehu's

12:52

men who bury Ahaziah. In

12:55

2 Kings, it is

12:58

Ahaziah's men who bury

13:00

Ahaziah with his

13:03

ancestors. Yeah, that is an

13:05

explicit contradiction. Jehu's men

13:08

are not Ahaziah's men. And

13:10

so that can't be

13:12

reconciled. But

13:14

we do have interesting attempts to try

13:17

to gin up these

13:19

scenarios that are not in

13:21

evidence to make these things

13:23

gel. I heard

13:27

an interesting one. They searched for him, found

13:30

him in Samaria, brought him to the

13:32

Jezreel Valley, and were like, run.

13:36

And then he was like, ooh! And runs

13:38

off in his chariot. And then they shoot

13:40

him and he goes to Megiddo and then

13:42

they have to go find him again. And

13:44

they find him in Megiddo and then they

13:46

put him to death in

13:49

Megiddo. So it's a... You

13:52

gotta add a lot. And

13:55

also, the hiding

13:57

thing, Kings doesn't have any...

14:00

that Kings has him and who's

14:03

the other Jay guy? Joram? Is that the

14:05

other guy? Joram. Joram. Yeah. Both

14:08

riding out specifically to

14:10

meet Jay who

14:13

in that place. Like the whole thing that

14:15

leads up to it. So yeah, there's he

14:18

couldn't have been hiding in some area that's

14:20

not possible unless

14:23

you really really you got to

14:25

squint and turn sideways and kind

14:27

of like you can't

14:29

you can't you have to be

14:31

working real real hard.

14:33

Right. You're not letting

14:36

the text set its own terms. You're

14:38

setting the terms for the text. And

14:41

here's something that I find so baffling

14:43

about the attempt to salvage the inerrancy

14:46

and the univocality of these two texts is

14:49

you basically have to turn both

14:51

authors into liars. You

14:53

have to say that each

14:55

account is just wildly misrepresenting

14:57

the events. Right. So that

14:59

you can say there are

15:01

these connecting events that

15:04

get us from point A to

15:06

point B that are being entirely omitted. And

15:09

so you have one story where everything's going on

15:11

in the Jezreel Valley and it's it

15:13

it is coherent. It makes sense. There's a

15:16

beginning a middle and an end. And it

15:18

all happens in this one little corner of

15:20

the valley. And then it's like, no, the

15:22

reality is that this thing was spanning over

15:25

dozens of miles and we have people coming

15:27

back and forth and we have people who

15:29

are giving them a chance to get away

15:31

or something and, you know,

15:33

playing sport with them. And and

15:36

you basically make each story

15:39

entirely false in

15:42

order to protect the inerrancy

15:45

of the two stories, which

15:47

is something that frequently happens when we're

15:50

talking about contradictions like

15:52

the the death of

15:56

Judas is like that. People are like, oh, well,

15:58

that's simple. hanged himself and

16:00

then over time the rope broke and he

16:02

fell and then you know everything

16:04

just he

16:06

burst and all that. It's like that's not

16:09

the story. That is a

16:11

very, very different story from the two

16:13

stories that were told. You

16:16

have to insist on

16:19

sovereignty over what the text is actually

16:21

saying and you turn the text into

16:24

a falsehood for

16:26

the sake of protecting the inerrancy of the

16:29

text. Yeah, I mean one of the things

16:31

that I wanted this discussion to be about

16:33

was the idea

16:35

of why we point

16:37

out these contradictions on

16:40

this show because I

16:42

think you think it's a very important thing

16:44

to do and it's

16:46

not about poking holes. I

16:48

know plenty of people who point out contradictions

16:51

because they want to poke holes in the

16:53

Bible and it's a big gotcha but

16:55

that's not what they're about. So why

16:57

is it important to you? It's

17:00

important to me because I think

17:02

it is necessary to take the Bible more

17:04

seriously. If we believe that

17:07

what the Bible is saying is important, then

17:10

I think you have to let the

17:12

Bible operate on its own terms. But

17:14

so many people don't want to let

17:17

the Bible operate on its own terms

17:19

because these presuppositions of inerrancy, of inspiration,

17:21

of univocality have more

17:23

authority than the text of the

17:25

Bible. And that's not

17:28

taking the Bible seriously. That's taking those

17:30

dogmas seriously. But

17:32

if I'm trying to let

17:34

what these authors were trying to say

17:37

come through, when

17:39

you mask, when you

17:41

obscure what the authors are trying to

17:43

say and alter it in

17:46

order to salvage your

17:48

dogmas, you're just shoving the

17:51

Bible down. You're not taking the Bible seriously.

17:53

And this is why I insist there's no such thing

17:55

as a biblical literalist because

17:58

there are one One, the Bible

18:00

is not univocal, it's multivocal.

18:04

There are lots of different people saying

18:06

lots of different things. So you can't

18:08

even extract a single, coherent, consistent worldview

18:10

from the Bible as a whole. You

18:12

have to pick and choose. You have to

18:15

say, we're going to take this one for this situation,

18:17

and we're going to leave that one on the side

18:19

for this situation. You have

18:21

no choice but to do that. And if you

18:23

try to impose a unifying framework upon the whole

18:25

thing to say, no, it all works, and

18:28

what you're doing is saying the Bible cannot operate on

18:31

its own terms. It has to operate on my terms.

18:33

Well, it doesn't leave room in

18:36

a book that was written over the course

18:38

of what, a thousand years or something like

18:40

that? About a thousand years, yeah. There's

18:43

no room in your worldview for innovation

18:45

within that period of time, for change,

18:47

for change

18:50

in thought, change in philosophy,

18:52

theology over a thousand years?

18:56

That is impossible. Yeah.

18:59

And it's an example I've brought up

19:01

many times in the past, but just

19:03

within my own lifetime, I

19:06

have seen people on one side of

19:08

the political aisle go from, you can

19:11

never have an adulterer as president

19:13

to, it's okay to have

19:16

an adulterer as president. Within

19:18

a single generation, you can have people

19:20

entirely flip-flop on what they claim are

19:24

absolutely essential, central ideologies

19:26

for their identities. And

19:29

so over the course of a thousand years,

19:31

that's going to happen thousands

19:33

and thousands of times. So,

19:36

yeah, it

19:38

doesn't treat the Bible as an authority on its own

19:40

right. It treats the Bible

19:42

as the proof text for the

19:45

real authority, which is the dogmas

19:48

of the

19:50

dogmas that are prioritized for

19:53

a given set of

19:55

social identities. Whatever one's identity

19:57

politics demands, the Bible be.

20:00

that's what they're going to make the Bible into.

20:07

I'm Jane Pirlas, long-time foreign correspondent

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and former Beijing bureau chief for

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the New York Times. I've

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Check us out and subscribe wherever you

21:34

listen to podcasts. It

21:39

doesn't even allow the Bible to be the

21:41

authority on the Bible. Yeah,

21:44

like if there's one thing that

21:46

the Bible can definitively be of

21:48

the authority on, it's damn self.

21:52

Yeah, but we assert

21:55

authority over that as well when you have

21:57

New Testament authors quoting from the Book of

21:59

First Enoch. referring to 2nd

22:01

Maccabees or the ascension of Isaiah or something

22:03

like that we've got to say that

22:06

wasn't really scripture yeah yeah that's a problem

22:08

yeah the folks 300 400 years later who

22:10

sat down and hammered out what the boundaries

22:16

of the Bible were gonna be they

22:19

knew better they were at least we're

22:21

giving them more authority than we are to

22:23

the actual authors of the biblical text so

22:26

it's it's such a disingenuous

22:29

concern this

22:32

this trying to protect

22:34

univocality because it

22:36

has absolutely no choice but

22:38

to assert the authority to dictate to

22:41

the Bible what it is and is

22:43

not allowed to mean like

22:45

the this is one of the reasons I'm not

22:48

a huge fan of the new international version of

22:51

the the Bible because

22:53

it says in the preface that

22:55

the or the introduction that all

22:57

the translators are committed to the

22:59

inspiration and infallibility of

23:01

the text it's like if you're committed to

23:03

that then you're

23:06

not letting the authors speak right

23:08

you are speaking for them and on their

23:11

behalf and you have to make changes in

23:13

order to make things fit and they do you

23:16

can find places where they are

23:18

fiddling with the translation in

23:20

ways that are not academically

23:22

defensible just to make

23:25

things fit this

23:28

this ideology yeah it makes sense

23:30

to me that the yeah

23:33

this whole thing I will say this

23:38

on a slightly different topic because because I

23:40

think I think we've made that point I

23:42

think that that's I think we're

23:44

clear on that anyone who

23:46

would disagree with us at this point about

23:49

that is it they're they're

23:52

just you know they're defending that ideology

23:54

or they're you know defending those dogmas

23:56

mm-hmm I do think that one of

23:58

the things when I I was reading 2

24:01

Kings 9 about Jehu,

24:03

son of Nimshi. I

24:06

think we should have in our merch, we don't

24:08

have merch yet, but we will. But in our

24:10

merch, I think we should have a bumper sticker

24:13

that says 2 Kings 9, verse

24:16

20, because that

24:18

has the part that says, it

24:22

looks like the driving of Jehu, son

24:24

of Nimshi, for he drives like

24:27

a maniac. And I just

24:29

think you

24:31

drive like Jehu, son of Nimshi, would happen

24:33

to have a bumper sticker or something like

24:36

that. Is that what it says

24:38

in the King James version? No, that's what

24:40

it says in the NRSV. Oh, NRSV drives

24:42

like a maniac. Drives like a maniac. Oh,

24:44

I probably can't sing. Because

24:47

that's okay. Nobody heard that, right?

24:49

Yeah. The

24:51

King James version says, for he

24:53

driveth furiously. Yeah, either way. Both

24:56

are good. Fastest and furiously. And

25:01

then the New English translation says

25:03

he drives recklessly. I

25:05

like like a maniac, but furiously also.

25:08

Yeah, the fast and the furious. I

25:10

love it. Jehu, son of Nimshi, played

25:12

by Confecial. All

25:16

right. Well, there's that. However

25:20

Ahaziah died, we

25:22

will never know the truth of it,

25:24

unfortunately. Probably not. Probably not. We. Yeah.

25:27

So, so I get it. Yeah,

25:29

I would just say that 2 Kings

25:32

is probably closer to the

25:34

truth than Chronicles, since it's coming so

25:36

much later and is trying to fiddle

25:39

with things more. Right. Okay. Fair enough.

25:41

All right. We're gonna say he drove

25:44

wounded his chariot back to

25:48

wherever the place was. All

25:51

right. Well, I think it's

25:53

time for a bit of chapter and verse. All

25:56

right. Let's hit it. All

25:59

right. Alright, so

26:02

we're going now to Mark and

26:05

walk us through. We're

26:07

in Mark chapter 2. Mark

26:09

chapter 2. And there is a fun

26:11

story of Jesus

26:14

and it starts

26:16

at his house. Yeah, so

26:19

this is Mark

26:22

chapter 1, the Gospel of Mark begins

26:24

with, we've

26:27

got the forerunner coming, here's Jesus, he's

26:29

getting baptized, he's been baptized, and then

26:31

we have Jesus staying

26:34

within what some people call the evangelical

26:37

triangle, which is a triangle

26:40

of three cities on

26:43

the northwestern corner of the Sea of Galilee.

26:46

Beit Shem,

26:50

Capernaum, and I forget

26:52

what the other one is, but it's a

26:54

little up the hills away

26:57

and it has black stone, like the

26:59

city was constructed of black stone and

27:02

there are hyraxes there. And

27:04

so you got to be careful because these

27:06

rodents will yell at you and

27:09

they're bizarre creatures. However,

27:11

so everything's going on up in

27:13

Galilee in Mark 1 and

27:16

he casts

27:18

out an

27:20

unclean spirit. He heals many

27:22

at Simon's house and Simon

27:24

lives in Capernaum or

27:27

Capernaum or Capernaum. However

27:30

you like to pronounce that name. If

27:33

you go visit, if you ever have

27:35

the privilege of visiting, there

27:38

is a statue right outside the front entrance.

27:40

As you're going in the front entrance, you

27:42

look to the left and there'll be a

27:44

bench and there is a, well it

27:46

looks like a homeless man covered in

27:49

a sheet or something laying on

27:52

the bench. But you

27:54

look at the feet and you see there are scars

27:56

on the feet and

27:58

so this is Jesus. It's

28:01

trying to remind you Jesus

28:03

is one of us. He's a beggar.

28:05

I thought that was a lovely touch.

28:08

But you go into Capernaum and

28:11

you can actually go visit what

28:13

some people think is Simon's actual

28:15

home. They've drilled down

28:17

to a dwelling place that

28:20

likely dates to the first century

28:22

and seems to have very quickly

28:25

become a pilgrimage site.

28:28

And so a lot of folks think this might be Peter's home.

28:31

But Simon's home, but you Simon

28:33

Peter. Oh, sorry.

28:36

These guys and these names,

28:38

man, I will never get

28:41

the New Testament prophets straight

28:43

or New Testament apostles. We

28:46

did a show on this. I know. And

28:51

so Mark two begins when

28:53

he returned to Capernaum after some days. It was

28:55

reported that he was at home. And

28:59

the Greek here suggests that Jesus was at

29:01

his own home. So Jesus

29:03

probably lived in Capernaum. Okay. There

29:07

you go. If you need to send his

29:09

letters, send him letters. Yeah.

29:12

Care of Mary. And so

29:15

many gathered around that there was no longer

29:17

room for them. So the word

29:20

got out. It's like

29:22

the tours going around where the rock

29:24

lives and people are like, I saw

29:26

him going. And they all run

29:29

over. Not even in front

29:31

of the top on without the top.

29:33

So that they go and see the

29:35

double decker. Yeah. Got

29:39

to have that. One of the funny just a sidebar

29:41

here. One of the things

29:43

I remember the most about riding double

29:45

decker buses in England was I was

29:47

always surprised by how much moss

29:50

and mold and stuff grew on the

29:52

tops of the bus stop. Oh,

29:55

because normally you see a bus stop and you

29:57

see there's a covering there, but you're looking down

29:59

on the top of it and but when you're

30:02

on the top deck of the bus you're like

30:04

oh I'm looking down on this roof here and

30:06

there's moss everywhere okay so I

30:08

just liked being on the sorry now

30:10

I'm on double I just loved being

30:12

at the very front on

30:14

the top layer of a double because

30:17

you think you're going to hit

30:20

literally first of all those bus

30:22

drivers especially in London are maniacs

30:24

yeah but they drive us furiously

30:26

huh yeah they do they do

30:28

they are like what's his name

30:30

son of what's the name but

30:33

they also like they

30:35

get really close and you feel like you're

30:37

just like going to hit

30:39

every single yeah front of it I that

30:42

I I don't know what would be more on I

30:45

don't think that's as uncomfortable as back

30:48

in the day riding in the back

30:50

of the station wagon the ship that

30:53

pointed backwards I used to love that

30:55

that was my favorite I

30:57

hated cuz when you know you're

31:00

on a road trip and somebody's behind you on the

31:02

interstate and you're like where do I look I don't

31:04

want to just stare down the person

31:06

who's gonna be behind us for an hour oh I

31:08

was there like an idiot waving ha ha

31:12

okay so many gathered around

31:15

that so many gathered around that there was

31:17

no longer room for them not even

31:19

in front of the door and he was speaking the word to

31:22

them that then some people came

31:24

bringing to him a paralyzed man carried

31:26

by four of them and in the King James

31:29

version it says one sick of the palsy but

31:31

this just means someone

31:33

who was paralyzed yeah and

31:35

there were four people carrying him

31:37

and when they could not bring him

31:40

to Jesus because of the crowd they

31:42

removed the roof above him and after

31:44

having dug through it they let

31:46

down the mat on which the

31:48

paralytic lay that's all that they climbed up

31:50

on the roof which would have been a flat roof

31:52

and it would have been there there would have been

31:54

a couple layers of things there there would have been

31:56

some mud brick and then probably

31:59

a bunch of straw and stuff like that.

32:01

They literally dismantled Jesus's house. Yeah.

32:03

And then what? Brains with the

32:05

guy up? How did they like... It

32:09

seems like they could have just sort of maybe

32:11

asked the crowd to part a little bit. Okay,

32:14

we're going in the hard way. That's

32:16

fine. Yeah, the very hard way. When

32:19

Jesus saw their faith, he

32:21

said to the paralytic child, your sins are

32:23

forgiven. So he's obviously not

32:26

upset about the property damage. No, he's even more

32:28

upset than not. Yeah, because I'm

32:30

sure he can just wave

32:32

his hands and... Rebuild.

32:35

Bibbidi-bopidi-boo. Yeah, he

32:38

has repaired. Maybe

32:41

it's not bibbidi-bopidi-boo. Maybe it's... What

32:43

does Merlin do in

32:46

Sword in the Stone? Oh my gosh, I don't know. It's

32:52

whatever the Aramaic is for bibbidi-bopidi-boo. Yeah,

32:54

yeah. Now some of the

32:56

scribes were sitting there questioning in their hearts.

32:58

So they're not saying this out loud, they're

33:00

thinking this. And this

33:03

raises an interesting thing here. Mark

33:05

is a little closer to kind of

33:08

the, let's say, Semitic

33:10

culture than to the Greco-Roman culture. And

33:13

in the more Semitic side

33:15

of things, your heart was the seat of

33:18

not just emotion, but also cognition. So

33:22

you fought with your heart. You didn't think

33:24

with your brain because they didn't care about

33:26

your brain. That's why the Egyptians, when they

33:28

mummified people, they just scooped

33:31

the brain out. Threw that away. Threw it

33:33

away, yeah. You get one of those. Yeah,

33:37

it's like a gigantic

33:39

oyster, just this goo that we're gonna get

33:41

rid of. So

33:44

the heart was the seat of cognition.

33:47

And so in the statement,

33:49

the first great commandment, love God

33:51

with all your heart might mind

33:53

and strength, that is

33:55

a Greek translation of

33:57

the... the

34:01

actual commandment from

34:03

Deuteronomy, which only says heart

34:05

might end soul. So

34:08

if they're talking about the mind, it's

34:11

not Hebrew Bible stuff. Interesting. Yeah, that

34:13

would not have been how

34:16

Jesus would have talked about this

34:18

stuff. I'm also interested in the

34:20

fact that the author of Mark is

34:23

writing in the third-person omniscient.

34:26

He's talking about what's going

34:29

on in everybody's heart. Yeah. Well, and

34:31

this is something that some folks

34:34

bring up when it comes to

34:36

some of the stories of Jesus'

34:38

trial. Because when Jesus is

34:40

before Pilate, Pilate takes

34:42

him out, puts him on display, hey everybody, what's

34:45

going on? And they say, crucify

34:47

him. Pilate brings him

34:49

back in, interrogates him, he's alone,

34:51

and then Jesus immediately goes to his death.

34:54

So whoever is telling that

34:57

story, obviously, we

34:59

have to imagine what Pilate would have

35:02

said to Jesus. But

35:04

yeah, the narrator is

35:06

omniscient. So

35:08

they're questioning in their hearts, why does this

35:11

fellow speak in this way? It is blasphemy.

35:13

Who can forgive sins but God alone? At

35:17

once, Jesus perceived in his

35:19

spirit that they were discussing these questions among

35:21

themselves. And he said to them, why

35:24

do you raise such questions in your hearts? Which

35:27

is easier? To say to the paralytic,

35:29

your sins are forgiven, or to say, stand

35:31

up and take your mat and walk, but

35:34

so that you may know that

35:37

the Son of Man has authority on

35:39

earth to forgive sins. He

35:42

said to the paralytic, I say to you, stand up,

35:44

take your mat and go to your home. And he

35:46

stood up and immediately took the mat and went out

35:48

before all of them so that they were all amazed

35:50

and glorified God saying, we have never seen anything like

35:53

this. So

35:56

quite the powerful parlor trick

35:59

here. of healing

36:01

the paralyzed man. Right.

36:04

And there's something interesting that... The demonstration of being able

36:07

to... As

36:09

a demonstration of the authority to

36:12

forgive sins, which is an interesting

36:15

reason. Not... It's... Like,

36:18

his first impulse isn't just like, hey, I'll

36:20

heal you. His first impulse is like, we'll

36:23

do this other thing. And then he'll

36:25

use the healing as the proof that

36:27

I have the authority to do that.

36:29

Yes. It's almost as if the story

36:31

was carefully crafted. Wait

36:33

a minute. To

36:37

tag these rhetorical bases. Yeah. Here's

36:40

what I... You didn't hear it from me.

36:43

Right. Here's what I think this story does. At

36:45

least one of the things this story does.

36:47

We'll get to the forgiveness thing, because that's

36:49

where we're really angled for. But if anyone

36:51

ever claims that they are a messiah,

36:54

if you ever run into a David Koresh

36:56

figure or whatever, dig

36:59

into his roof, break into his house. And

37:03

if he's mad at you, that's not him. Not

37:05

the messiah. Not the one. So

37:09

we've got this question about divine forgiveness.

37:11

Who can forgive sins but God alone?

37:15

One other thing that baffles me about

37:17

this, and this text is appealed to

37:19

frequently by folks who

37:22

are trying to make the case that

37:24

Jesus is God. Yeah. And

37:27

basically you have to agree that the scribes...

37:30

Is it scribes or who does it say in here? Sorry.

37:33

Yeah, I think it's scribes. You said the word scribes.

37:35

Yeah, some of the scribes. Some of the scribes are

37:37

sitting there questioning in their hearts. So basically, you have

37:41

to suppose that the scribes are right,

37:44

that no one can forgive sins except

37:46

for God alone. And this is... I

37:48

mean, this is not an incorrect inference

37:52

to draw from the way the Hebrew Bible

37:54

talks about the forgiveness of sins. However,

37:57

I think Jesus'

37:59

response... precludes that understanding

38:01

of what's going on here

38:03

because Jesus doesn't say, doesn't

38:05

turn around and give him one of these,

38:08

what do you think that makes me? Jesus

38:11

says, wrong,

38:15

so that you may know, you

38:17

lack information, you don't know something,

38:20

I am going to drop

38:22

some knowledge on you. What is that knowledge?

38:25

That the Son of Man has

38:27

authority on earth to forgive sins.

38:29

In other words, the scribes were

38:32

wrong. Who can forgive

38:34

sins but God alone? Jesus says, Son

38:37

of Man can forgive sins. And

38:39

Son of Man here is a

38:41

reference specifically to him, himself. Right?

38:43

So there's a debate about this. I

38:46

think Mark is presenting Jesus as

38:48

the Son of Man. However, those

38:51

who, Bartirman and

38:53

others who try to reconstruct

38:55

how Jesus himself

38:58

might have thought about this, they,

39:00

some of them will argue that

39:02

Jesus did not actually think he

39:04

was the Son of Man. And

39:06

this requires kind of taking

39:08

some of these Son of Man statements as

39:11

actual words

39:13

of Jesus but reinterpreting

39:15

them as third-person

39:17

references rather than first-person references.

39:20

Okay. But the

39:23

way this story presents itself, it is very

39:25

clear that he is saying, I have

39:27

this authority. He's not saying anyone

39:29

else does. So it's basically, according

39:31

to him, at least in this

39:33

moment, me and dad. Yeah,

39:36

yeah. The guys are saying, only

39:38

God can do this and Jesus says,

39:40

I am God's plus one. Because

39:44

the Son of Man has authority on

39:46

earth to forgive sins. I just

39:48

don't see how you can interpret this

39:50

as anything other than a correction of

39:53

an error. And

39:56

so right off the bat, I don't

39:58

think it's serves

40:01

as a proof text for the notion that

40:04

Jesus is God. But there's more to this when

40:06

it comes to the forgiveness of

40:08

sins, because this

40:10

is a question that we see rising

40:14

up in some other

40:16

Jewish literature, even some Greco-Roman period Jewish

40:18

literature. There's an idea that there might

40:20

be a Dead Sea Scroll fragment that

40:22

is talking about a priest

40:25

having authority to forgive sins. But

40:28

this is a debate that people have

40:30

been having for a while. Does

40:32

the Bible say that only God forgives

40:35

sins? And is there anything

40:37

else, anywhere else that says anyone else has

40:39

the authority to forgive sins? Because this is

40:42

something that is repeatedly attributed

40:44

to, this is a divine

40:46

prerogative throughout the Hebrew Bible

40:48

and most of the New

40:50

Testament except for here. So

40:52

we have in

40:57

Numbers 14, Moses asked God to forgive

40:59

the people and God says, I

41:02

have pardoned according to your word. We have

41:04

a bunch of references to God

41:06

having authority to forgive sins. In fact, in

41:09

Joshua 20, I think it's 2419,

41:13

you have Joshua

41:15

telling the people you can't

41:18

serve God because he's a

41:20

jealous God and he will

41:22

not forgive your sins. The

41:25

word there is a word that's more

41:27

commonly translated transgressions, but there's

41:29

a lot of semantic overlap between the two. But

41:32

Joshua says, he will not forgive

41:34

your transgressions. And most

41:37

scholars agree, this is not

41:39

saying that you're hopeless, God's

41:41

never going to forgive your sins, but that

41:44

God is the one who has the authority to do

41:46

so and God is jealous

41:49

about that authority and God is also

41:51

pretty sparing with that

41:53

authority. Which does, I

41:55

mean that feels in conflict with what

41:57

I was taught, which is that like

42:00

Anyone who asks for forgiveness

42:02

earnestly. And. Repents and doesn't

42:04

sin anymore. Gets. Forgiveness.

42:08

Is. Certainly sounds like that in the

42:11

way the New Testament represents it, where

42:13

we forgive those who have sinned against

42:15

or seven times seventy times. Ah, and

42:17

things like that it it sounds an

42:20

awful lot like we have the ability

42:22

to ah to forgive other people since

42:24

we're not I'm I'm saying are like

42:26

I thought the God for gave our

42:29

sins. I get like is

42:31

not stingy about it. All you have to

42:33

do is go ahead and ask for forget

42:35

ask for forgiveness send you get it. I

42:37

could see ads. So.

42:39

It's interesting that that that the

42:42

earlier idea was. Maybe.

42:46

On of we're gonna see I'd

42:48

I doubt it. Easy doesn't like

42:50

you very much so. Yeah,

42:53

I eat. It's a mixed bag

42:56

because the bible's not, you know,

42:58

vocal. So you've got a lot

43:00

of different representations of God's perspective

43:02

on said because you have. Ah

43:04

other things were Micah, for instance,

43:06

sir, I is praising God who

43:09

is a godlike, you pardoning iniquity

43:11

and passing over transgression for the

43:13

remnant of his inheritance. So

43:15

God is praised as as being pretty

43:18

liberal. With. The forgiveness of

43:20

sins and elsewhere. It's got a

43:22

stingy with the forgiveness of sins,

43:24

but. Got his room

43:26

is mainly the one who

43:28

is. Able to forgive

43:30

sins, at least forgive the

43:32

sins of well, forgive ah

43:34

other people's sins. Now I

43:36

was about to say like

43:38

with in humans circumstances were

43:40

supposed to forgive others who

43:42

sin against us and so

43:44

but we can't really forgive

43:47

the sins of someone against

43:49

somebody else for and so

43:51

that that's outside of our

43:53

per view. Or that's above

43:55

are pay grade right? And. Here

43:57

we get into the question of how

44:00

gun the authority relate to that and

44:02

I'm and scholars would say that. The.

44:05

Sins as they are laid out

44:08

of their described in the Bible

44:10

and within my girly Jewish literature

44:12

and things like that overwhelmingly are

44:15

represented as violations of God's commands.

44:18

right? So if it's not against God's

44:20

commands, Then. It's not a sin,

44:22

and so God is. The offended party

44:24

is the injured party when it comes

44:27

to any sin whatsoever. And so it's

44:29

up to God to do that. With.

44:36

Something you learned in history class

44:38

that you feel wasn't the whole

44:40

truth. Better yet, what something?

44:42

You didn't learn? It all that was

44:44

omitted completely. That's. What I'd

44:46

like to call redacted history. I

44:49

believe it or history. No matter how

44:51

good or bad needs to be told.

44:54

They. Were wars, massacres, battles, and entire

44:56

historical events that are just not

44:58

in our school's history books? Have you

45:00

ever heard of a Merry Bows

45:02

Or? I didn't think so.

45:05

My. Name is Andre White the

45:07

host of the redacted History Podcast

45:09

The Place where history for Guy

45:11

and events, heroes and villains get

45:14

their story told one episode at

45:16

a time. To come huddle

45:18

around the campfire with me and get ready to

45:20

hear the stories that you were robbed us. And.

45:23

Get comfortable. We're. Going to be here

45:25

awhile. The. Redacted History

45:27

Podcast Real History. Never.

45:29

Dies. Stream.

45:31

The redacted history podcast on Apple podcasts

45:34

Spot a Fight or wherever else you

45:36

get your park as. Yeah,

45:39

because it's often bothered me the idea

45:41

that you know. Someone.

45:43

Even if it's God that someone

45:45

other than the like, you know

45:47

I do something. Horrible.

45:50

To someone else. And.

45:52

Then. Like. Forgiveness is

45:55

something that the God can grant me,

45:57

but I don't think it to my

45:59

mind that's not how that transaction works.

46:02

Like is a person the only person

46:04

who can grant me forgiveness. Is

46:06

the person that I have hurt in

46:09

some way. And

46:11

you know it, done under no obligation

46:13

to do so button so. I

46:15

think that there's an end. You know?

46:18

I think that forgiveness also means different

46:20

things. You know there's forgive forgiveness I

46:22

think Op and times. In

46:25

this, in these kinds of contacts, in

46:28

biblical context, it's more a sense of

46:30

forgiveness as in we forgive a debt.

46:33

Not. As in like a functional forgiveness.

46:35

Ah, Like I. Have gotten

46:38

myself to a place emotionally where. I.

46:42

You. Know can now. Let

46:44

go of the fact that you've done harm

46:46

to me but is rather. Okay,

46:48

you owe me x amount because you

46:50

did this and I forgive that, that

46:53

sort of thing. Yeah N n

46:55

I think that is a. That.

46:57

Is a metaphor. They governs the

46:59

representation of the the moral transgressions.

47:01

So the the word that is

47:03

used for forgive is is like

47:06

release, loosen, let go on. and

47:08

so I think it's is probably

47:10

related to the idea of of

47:12

that debt. And and as you

47:15

pointed out as we were outlining

47:17

what we're gonna talk about today

47:19

in the or the Lord's Prayer.

47:22

In Matthew it says. Forgive.

47:24

Our deaths as we forgive our debtors.

47:26

Ah and then if you go to

47:29

the The Luke and version the Sermon

47:31

On the Plane. Says ah

47:33

forgive our sins. And. So.

47:36

One. Could interpret Matthew to

47:38

be talking about our fiscal

47:41

principles. Ah, or it could

47:43

be. I think it's probably

47:45

more likely that is being used figuratively to

47:47

refer to a moral deaths and things like

47:50

then Oh I know that the first time

47:52

I looked up the the Lord's Prayer because

47:54

I didn't I wasn't raised saying it of

47:56

Lds people Don't say the Lord's Prayer but

47:59

I you know, It heard it in. Night.

48:01

You know, media and movies or whatever.

48:04

And. I kind of know. You know, I kind

48:06

of know it. It's enough in the Zeit guys

48:08

that I kind of know it when I look

48:10

at up in Matthew and I'm like and forgive

48:12

us our debts or what other. Pets.

48:15

As a bit doesn't say trespassers what's going on.

48:17

It was married as I'd and then I was

48:19

in a frantic like. Like I'm

48:21

looking at all of the different translations and

48:23

whatever image at all says debts. And I

48:25

was. I was blown away by that. Yeah.

48:29

It does. There's the there's what the

48:31

text says and then there's the. The.

48:34

Discourse about it and I

48:36

and frequently what we. Internalize

48:39

and what we remember and what.

48:41

The. The level at which the discourse

48:43

operates is not what's what's in the

48:45

tax like people and that now people.

48:48

There. Are a lot of conspiracy theorists

48:51

who claim that that's because you know

48:53

Cern has been screwing with the fabric

48:55

of reality and has been changing things.

48:57

So it is the Lion and the

48:59

lamb. Ah, because in reality the Bible

49:01

never talks about the line and Alam

49:04

talk about the Wolf and Eleven But

49:06

it has become the Line and the

49:08

lamb in the discourse. And a lot

49:10

of people are like know Nasa and

49:12

Cern of Scenes Reality and Angela X

49:15

Men to allow Dallas I've exactly so

49:17

they're like I know and I remember.

49:20

And you know I

49:22

was. There. Was there is

49:24

is go of when I can't remember where

49:26

this where they don't remember the context but

49:29

somebody. At some point was

49:31

talking about when Now when when the

49:33

Pharaoh gave Moses his ring. And

49:36

I was like. You're. Thinking

49:38

of the Prince of Egypt us

49:40

that was an animated movie that's

49:42

not and separate close. So

49:47

now I totally lost regular we

49:49

were got a specific for forgiveness

49:51

for a minute for forgiveness for

49:53

since yeah. But

49:56

I I want to return to this idea

49:58

of god been as jealous guy. Who

50:00

will not forgive your transgressions because

50:02

there actually is another divine agent.

50:05

Who. Of whom the exact

50:07

same thing as said word for word.

50:10

And that happens in Exodus

50:12

Twenty Three. When we have

50:14

the Angel God's As look,

50:17

I'm sending an angel before

50:19

you to guide you along

50:21

the way. Don'ts disobey him,

50:23

Don't take him off. says.

50:26

Because he will not forgive your

50:28

sins. And it's the exact

50:31

same Hebrew that we find. And

50:33

Joshua Twenty four, nineteen. The

50:35

purview the prerogative of the jealous god.

50:37

And then it's as because my name

50:39

is in him. And

50:41

so I've I argue in my book that

50:43

this seems to be. A their

50:45

accounting for why the angels identity gets

50:48

mixed up with God's identity which we

50:50

see with Ah with the Angel who

50:52

appears to Moses and the burning bush

50:55

and and. It. Happens with

50:57

Hagar, it happens with Abraham and

50:59

happens with Gideon and happens with

51:01

Monarch and his wife. Were stories

51:03

that were recently about God visiting

51:05

Humanity. Have the Angel written in.

51:08

To. Kind of muddy the waters and this, I

51:10

argue, is is a way to account for how

51:12

the angel can do and only got a supposed

51:14

to be able to. And. Ines,

51:16

and in the case of Exodus twenty

51:19

three. It's that

51:21

prerogative not to forgive sins. That.

51:23

The angel has as a result of

51:25

God's name being in him and so

51:27

I would take this back to Mark

51:30

to. And say. It's.

51:32

Possible. I. The

51:35

I think it's likely. That. The

51:37

author has in in mind

51:39

and allusion to this notion

51:41

that hey. There. Was

51:43

a divine agent that was able

51:45

to. Have authority over the

51:47

forgiveness of sins and the Hebrew

51:49

Bible. The Son of Man is

51:52

held up as an example of

51:54

someone who is able to exercise

51:56

divine prerogatives. Ah, and in some

51:58

instances because they were. Dowd with

52:00

God's name or have God's name

52:02

in dwelling within them. And so

52:04

I I think that's probably. What

52:08

is underlying the story here? Rather

52:10

than the notion that Jesus is

52:12

winking at them about being God

52:15

through this narrative in child without

52:17

actually coming out and saying yeah,

52:19

And don't you get it yet?

52:21

I'm the guy. Yeah, it's it's.

52:24

the me. See

52:29

Messiah Assess assess Missouri.

52:31

Oh, Yeah,

52:34

that that's fascinating. I'm

52:36

I it. It's weird.

52:39

That. It happened like. The

52:41

whole set up with. The

52:44

The. Paralyzed. guy coming

52:46

in through the roof is

52:48

real strange to me is.

52:51

Ah, it. Ever since we're setting up something

52:53

that. Could. Have happened to

52:55

any number of other ways but ah, But.

52:58

I mean, who knows. Maybe it's because it

53:00

actually happened in our people digging through your

53:02

roof. That's. That's a fun

53:04

story. You. Can be gotten out a map for a

53:07

long time. And. I

53:09

think is interesting that are also that.

53:12

Is as Jesus saw on the make

53:14

sure that's that's plural. Yeah, Jesus saw

53:17

their face. So. It's

53:19

not that it's not the the

53:21

man lion on the bed whose

53:23

face Jesus is rewarding right? is

53:26

it's the say server his buddies

53:28

and he's like oh well I'm

53:30

in a forgive. Disguise.

53:33

Since he's been over his I go for it.

53:35

The for buddies are probably like and. What?

53:38

About our sense yeah it's knew it

53:40

was our faith we were talking about

53:42

their we hosted the guy all the

53:44

way up here. We

53:47

should get something. Yeah unless it was

53:49

the. The man who

53:51

was as is laying on the the

53:53

caught or whatever they were carrying him

53:55

home who is like stick through the roof.

53:57

I gotta get in there are no.

54:00

He made him do it said literally

54:02

cannot be that is it must like.

54:06

Some. Structural Learned structural engineer has to

54:08

tell me how it is possible that dig

54:11

dug through the roof and it the whole

54:13

thing didn't came in. I just wondered how

54:15

anyway it actually is fine because it could

54:17

have been you know like a basketball hoop

54:19

sized hole and they just kind of lowered

54:22

him down by as he. Says

54:25

if they had to hold him flat

54:27

ah that is a very large hole

54:29

that they've been updated the day that

54:31

and to they look like the just

54:33

referencing this guy in is matt to

54:35

they lower him down. On the mat

54:38

like it feels like the must have used

54:40

the match to look. I don't know. This.

54:42

Is in. They. Had a dolly

54:44

and a bunch of straps

54:46

of they were starting his

54:48

junior high voltage and lowering

54:50

him than in seeing him

54:52

down foot bicyclists. Aura or

54:54

they distract him to the mat and.

54:58

Roll him in a relay, cross your fingers

55:00

for some. Of

55:04

her it is. It is fun

55:06

to imagine potential historical realities underlying

55:08

these are these literary stories. Yeah,

55:11

because I I think some of

55:13

the ways of these stories are

55:15

told. They're. Not told

55:17

so that you imagine these realities. They're

55:19

just told so you focus on the

55:22

points that they're making. On.

55:24

And then trying to imagine

55:26

those realities raises? Peculiarities.

55:30

With this is what I'm saying. I if

55:32

I could go back in time and

55:34

talk to biblical authors, I would be

55:36

like. I understand good storytelling involves details,

55:38

but like. Let's not make

55:41

the details so weird. That it's.

55:43

Totally distracts from the actual like

55:45

moink are trying to make here

55:48

cause that. That's. A

55:50

weird detail. Yeah.

55:53

i don't know where where they grew

55:55

up some idea how they learn their

55:58

their storytelling craft But

56:01

one thing is for sure is the gospel

56:03

authors were definitely well

56:05

trained. So they

56:08

were sticking with the conventions

56:10

and the norms of their

56:12

time, even

56:15

if it strikes us as peculiar.

56:18

And lo, they did... The

56:21

paralytic man did crowd surf to the

56:24

place. Alright,

56:26

well, I

56:29

guess that's it for this week's show. If you

56:31

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