0:00

Let's go! Dermot and Dave. Yeah!

0:03

Woo! Today, F.O. Now,

0:05

a really interesting story. Earlier this month, it was

0:07

announced that parent associations in eight

0:09

schools in Greystones in Wicklow

0:11

agreed to adopt a code of having no smartphones

0:14

until the children have finished primary school. Recently,

0:17

research in America has shown that the use of social

0:19

media is behind a rise in depression and anxiety

0:21

in younger people. Well, to chat to

0:24

us more about this no smartphone code,

0:26

we're joined by one of the people behind the initiative, Rachel

0:28

Harper, the principal of St. Patrick's

0:30

National School in Greystones. Hey,

0:32

Rachel.

0:33

Good morning. This is pretty

0:36

progressive, and it's not easy

0:38

to get everybody on the same page,

0:41

particularly a whole load of different schools,

0:43

never mind just the one.

0:45

Absolutely. I know. So, it's

0:47

part of It Takes a Village initiative,

0:49

which was launched on the 12th of May,

0:52

and that's a community-led well-being

0:54

initiative across the eight primary schools

0:56

here in Greystones and Dalgany. And

0:59

I suppose following that launch, the eight

1:01

principals, we all came together and we discussed

1:04

the rolling out of this smart device voluntary

1:06

code across all the schools because we feel that,

1:09

yes, there is a huge increase in anxiety

1:11

levels in kids at the present. And

1:13

we do feel that this is an area

1:15

that is causing anxiety, not the only

1:17

area, but, you know, it's certainly contributing

1:19

to it. Yeah, I mean, these kids obviously have gone

1:21

through a global pandemic and all the rest of

1:23

the stuff that they've had to deal with as well. So I suppose

1:25

it isn't a surprise that anxiety levels are on the

1:27

rise. But what you're seeing is research that

1:30

says that exposure to social media

1:32

at a young age can contribute to further heightened

1:34

anxiety and even lead to depression and stuff. Right.

1:37

So when you sit down then, you

1:39

know, as a principal of one school and you sit down

1:42

with the seven other principals and you say, OK,

1:44

we're going to collectively come together in this

1:46

It Takes a Village attitude, I love it,

1:49

and sit down and say,

1:49

right, we're going to ban

1:52

smartphones. What's

1:54

the practicality? What are the logistics

1:56

of doing this?

1:56

Yes. So, again,

1:58

you see, we can't. them as such. So

2:01

we have to be very careful that we come across that it's a voluntary

2:03

code. So we're really trying to encourage the

2:05

parents through the PTAs

2:07

as well. So the first thing we did was we were all around the

2:09

table and we were chatting about

2:12

it and we decided to come up with an email.

2:15

And an email just saying it was going to be

2:17

rolled out through our PTAs, the Smart

2:20

Voluntary Code. And we as the eight primary

2:22

school principals in the area really

2:24

are behind the initiative and we really

2:27

feel that this is really going to benefit their children's

2:29

wellbeing. And then at the bottom of that,

2:32

what we did was we all put our personal signature.

2:34

So that went out across all of the schools.

2:36

So I suppose there was power

2:38

kind of in all of us coming together. So

2:41

if you received that email as

2:43

a parent of one school, you'd be thinking, oh, maybe

2:45

this school is really strict. But then when you get to the bottom

2:48

and you see that all eight school principals

2:50

in the area are signing their name to it personally,

2:53

then you think, oh, look, maybe there has to be more in

2:55

this. All eight school principals feel

2:57

the same. And I suppose the strength

3:00

in it then by eight schools coming together

3:02

is the more parents that

3:04

sign up to it, then the

3:07

more that it becomes the norm in our area

3:09

here, Greystones and Dalgeneys. So if

3:11

a child from St. Patrick's here goes on

3:13

a Skype trip or

3:15

goes on a football

3:17

mat or football training or rugby or GAA,

3:20

whatever it is, they're the same

3:22

as all the other children in the area. And

3:24

speaking of

3:25

the children, Rachel, what was

3:27

their opinion on it? Do they agree with it? Yeah,

3:30

I mean, at present, like they're not allowed to

3:32

have their phones in school anyway, you

3:34

know, that sort of way. So we would do a little

3:37

bit of talking around and around phones. So

3:39

I think they'd be very

3:39

effective. Sometimes

3:42

we can kind of talk at children and assume

3:44

that they've no sort of skin in the game

3:47

in terms of making their own choices. But, you

3:49

know, you know, when they hear the research

3:51

that it makes them more sad and more

3:54

anxious and, you know, challenges

3:56

their self-worth and their self-belief and

3:58

all that. I mean,

4:00

Do they understand that actually this is a positive

4:02

thing and not just adults telling them yet another

4:04

thing that they can't do or have? Yeah, that's

4:07

it. And like the thing is, you know,

4:09

sometimes we don't give kids enough credit for

4:12

their reasoning, you know, skills. And

4:14

I suppose once it's explained to them

4:17

the reasons why we're trying to do this, and

4:19

I suppose it's really important to say that

4:21

we're not against phones, you know, it's

4:23

just the smartphones that are, you know, connected

4:25

to the internet. And I think once we

4:27

explain that to them and which we have, definitely

4:30

the response has been positive. You know, there's

4:32

naturally there's some kids going, I want my phone,

4:34

you know, or I need a phone. But I think the majority

4:37

are definitely understanding. And

4:39

again, that takes time chatting. So I suppose

4:41

like, you know, kids are very curious.

4:44

That's the fear behind all this, that, you know,

4:46

they have curious minds. Everything's just

4:49

at the press of a button. You know,

4:51

they can go anywhere so quickly that

4:53

their teacher's parents, nobody is aware

4:55

of where they can go on the internet. And

4:58

again, just by doing it this way, also,

5:01

we feel that we can help equip

5:03

the children in sixth class around the eight

5:05

schools and we'll get an expert in to talk

5:07

to the kids about getting a phone in first year. And,

5:10

you know, how it's really beneficial, how we can help. But

5:13

just, you know, just some things around

5:15

to be aware of, you know, the amount of usage

5:17

and just the internet and about posting

5:20

pictures, you know, things like that. It's very important.

5:21

I think education is very important for kids. But

5:24

now just one thing, though, like you said, they're not allowed

5:26

to have them in school anyway. So,

5:29

you know, is this how or

5:31

how is it different than, for example, the

5:34

locality that I live in or Durham lives or anyone else listening

5:36

lives in, in the sense that the kids shouldn't have their phones

5:38

in school, obviously, anyway, because they're supposed to be concentrating on what they're doing.

5:42

But when they get outside the school gates, you

5:44

know, aren't they kind of back to

5:46

whatever reality they live in outside of the eight

5:48

schools? Yeah.

5:50

And I suppose that's where it comes down to

5:52

the parents and the PTA's, you know,

5:54

working with the parents and the parents signing

5:57

the voluntary code that they're all agreeing

5:59

together, that they're not.

5:59

not going to purchase a

6:02

smartphone for their child until

6:04

secondary school. What if they had them already?

6:08

Yeah, and that's a very good point. So I suppose

6:10

like fifth and sixth class, if they have them already,

6:13

it's very hard to reel back on that.

6:15

I suppose what we're really concentrating on are

6:17

the junior years that say third, fourth

6:19

class is going to be the new norm for them. And

6:22

hopefully fifth class, sixth class

6:24

are nearly gone now at this stage. They've

6:26

nearly left us. But I

6:28

suppose even when I'm saying to parents, if

6:30

your child already has a smartphone, it's

6:33

getting the conversation and certainly everybody's

6:36

chatting about it in Grey's Johns and Delganey. And

6:38

it's making everybody listen

6:41

and just kind of recalculating, you know, if their

6:43

child has a phone, how much usage

6:46

are they getting on it? And how supervised

6:49

is it? And everybody's really thinking

6:51

about it and thinking how they can reel back on it if their

6:53

child

6:53

has a phone or anything. That conversation is so

6:56

important, isn't it? The fact that we're just literally having

6:58

the conversation. What you guys have done, even if

7:00

you're

7:00

not attempting, as you said at the start, you're not trying

7:02

to ban phones or not anti phones, but you're just

7:05

having a conversation about the exposure,

7:07

the amount of time kids spend on phones, the fact

7:09

that they obviously shouldn't be on them in school.

7:11

And yeah, we're having

7:14

the discussion with our soon to be 11 year old now

7:16

about what's happening for his birthday.

7:18

But he has a Nokia like little small

7:20

brick phone that he can ring us on whatever. That's all

7:22

that he's ever been given.

7:25

So he's kind of like, I'm so good, I

7:28

tidied my room again today. My daughter turns 12

7:30

today,

7:30

you

7:35

can imagine the conversations we're having.

7:37

So yeah, of course, there ain't no phone

7:39

beside the bed. That's for sure.

7:42

Not just yet.

7:42

But that's the thing that

7:45

you know, our kind of first, second,

7:47

third class, that hopefully with this,

7:49

you know, initiative that it becomes a new norm that

7:51

the kids don't have to keep asking their parents

7:53

that they just know that in Greyston's

7:56

and down, we don't get our phone until secondary.

7:58

So to know the way you can kind of

7:59

help the parents a bit because there is that guilt.

8:02

I totally understand that if your child

8:04

reaches 11 or 12, I'm the only child

8:06

in the class that doesn't have a phone, you know,

8:08

and it can be difficult. So it just

8:10

becomes a new norm, hopefully that

8:12

everybody's the same. Well, I can see the kids

8:14

now coming in and going, look, I really,

8:17

I understand the Greystone's

8:19

Delgany rule. Okay, I get it. So I've

8:21

come up with a solution. We need to move.

8:25

We're called to kill mechanic immediately. Yeah.

8:29

Rachel Harper, Principal of St. Patrick's National School

8:31

in Greystones. Congratulations on a very

8:33

smart initiative to get this conversation going. And pass

8:35

the congratulations from us on to the rest of the

8:38

principals as well. And everyone in the Greystones

8:40

and Delgany area. Thanks a million. Thank you.