0:00

Joseph Hubbard from Creation Research

0:02

UK. Now, I'm not talking about University of

0:04

Kentucky, I'm talking about the original UK

0:06

is with us this hour. Yes, there's going to be

0:08

another British accent in the studio and

0:11

you don't want to miss that. It's Friday,

0:13

so Dawn is in pink. Get in touch anytime

0:15

(800) 555-7898.

0:18

Yeah, yeah, I saw the shot

0:20

that was taken there. And then the attempted deflection

0:23

of guess that. Yeah, yeah the original

0:25

UK not Kentucky whatever. And by the way she's

0:27

in pink. Let's just because that makes it all

0:29

better.

0:29

Yeah absolutely.

0:31

You've also been waiting to say another

0:33

Brit is in the studio and you're super

0:36

excited about two for two. Yeah. We

0:38

we still outnumber you though. There's three

0:40

of us from the States here.

0:42

Quiet. We'll turn. Turn Glenn's mic

0:44

off.

0:44

There you go.

0:47

Well, we do have a Brit in the studio

0:49

with us this morning. Joseph Hubbard is with us,

0:51

writer and researcher for Creation Research

0:53

Worldwide. He serves as the UK director. And

0:55

welcome, man. It's good to meet you.

0:57

It's good to be here.

0:57

Yeah I do like that accent.

0:59

Thank you. Yes. It's it's I find it's quite popular

1:01

over here. I have a funny accent.

1:03

It's good.

1:04

Now why is it this. We'll

1:06

get on topic in just a second here. But this is just

1:08

a question. Why is it. Do you think

1:10

that Americans find British accents

1:13

so compelling? Yet I'm told

1:15

that American accents are rejected

1:17

by those in the UK.

1:19

Um, not so much rejected.

1:22

I just think that, uh. Do

1:24

you want the honest answer? I do, I'm really.

1:26

Curious because actually I actually do

1:28

a radio show.

1:29

We actually. Yeah, we had this a

1:31

similar question to this, um, last

1:33

night, which was along the lines of we were speaking at David

1:35

Reeves Place in Dixon, the Wonder Center,

1:38

and somebody asked, you know, why you had

1:40

like, the scopes trial and why

1:42

did evolution take on so much, even in

1:44

the US with a big, strong Christian heritage?

1:47

And the real answer is that Americans

1:49

love an English accent, and it

1:51

makes us sound intelligent. Right. And

1:53

you will find, even to this day, your

1:55

main groups that come out of

1:58

the UK from prestigious organizations

2:00

like Oxford University and Cambridge and stuff,

2:02

there is an association with a

2:04

posh or a sort of, you know, prestige

2:07

English accent. Uh, there's an

2:09

association between that and academia

2:11

and therefore authority. And that goes

2:13

back to this idea that academia equals

2:15

authority. Therefore, if you have doctor So-and-so

2:18

in front of your name, you must know what you're talking

2:20

about. All right. I'm here to tell you that's not

2:22

always the case. It

2:24

really isn't. But it is interesting

2:26

how people's perceptions will,

2:29

uh, you know, of something, of prestige

2:31

will lead you to believe something without actually looking

2:33

and understanding what they believe in the first place.

2:35

So a big part of what we try and do is

2:37

get people to question that. Yeah.

2:39

And I'm so glad you do, because

2:41

of that very thing that

2:44

we will take on something that we've heard for so

2:46

many years, or maybe we learned in elementary school,

2:48

and that makes more sense to our human

2:50

intellect than it does to believe that God

2:52

has created something. But take us back

2:54

to the creation research there

2:56

in the United Kingdom. What? What is this place?

2:59

What do.

2:59

You do? So, uh, creation research was founded

3:01

by our international director, John McKay,

3:03

who's Australian. He started the first

3:06

creation ministry in Australia and,

3:08

uh, brought in Ken Ham from Answers in Genesis

3:10

to work with him back in the 1970s. So

3:12

the two of them go way back. Right? And

3:15

Ken obviously moved over here to the US, started

3:17

Answers in Genesis. John stayed back in Australia

3:20

and many, many years later I then ended

3:22

up getting involved. Right. So creation

3:24

research is about, uh, well,

3:26

a research in creation, but ultimately

3:28

we're doing it to find evidence that God's Word is

3:30

true so that we can use that in evangelism.

3:33

It's here to provide evidence that,

3:35

well, if you can trust what God said in the beginning,

3:38

you can trust what he says about what he's going

3:40

to do in the end. Right. And so

3:42

it's a it is a ministry. It's a gospel

3:44

based ministry, and it's a ministry which

3:46

is about reaching a pagan culture

3:49

because despite, you

3:51

know, very long Christian heritage in the United

3:53

Kingdom, good Christian heritage here

3:55

in the United States, we are increasingly

3:57

becoming more and more of a pagan culture

4:00

simply because the culture is all around

4:02

now. Evolution. Millions of years,

4:05

we evolved out of the slime and

4:07

that is a pagan concept in itself.

4:09

That was what our whole presentation last night. David's

4:11

place was about, right? The pagan roots of evolution.

4:14

And so we are increasingly becoming

4:16

a pagan nation. Now we have this

4:18

account in the book of Acts of Paul

4:20

going to pagan nations, particularly

4:23

the Greeks. Right. Which is where evolution

4:25

really started. And, uh,

4:27

the way that Paul dealt with them, the way

4:29

that he evangelized to them, was to go back

4:31

to creation. We have to start with the basics.

4:33

In the beginning, God created and

4:35

we go from there.

4:36

That's true. Yeah, he did, didn't he? And,

4:38

uh, acts know Romans chapter one.

4:41

He spells that out again about

4:43

creation and how, you know, we can

4:45

look to that and see we have a designer

4:48

God, we have Joseph Hubbard Hubbard

4:50

with us this morning talking about

4:52

creation. Well, I'm going to slow down

4:54

creation research, United Kingdom.

4:57

You just need to say it with a British accent. And

4:59

I think that's it. I screw it up

5:01

and he'd still sound authoritative.

5:03

The best I got is southern. I can pull on

5:05

the pull out the southern. No, no. All

5:07

right, well, we'll we'll let Joseph keep

5:09

the British accent and continue to talk about this

5:11

when we look at how God has

5:13

brought things into being. And

5:16

Glenn is his associate.

5:18

Are you the handler today?

5:19

So I'm the USA representative

5:22

for creation research.

5:23

Oh, there we go. So you know.

5:25

Ken Ham, a scientist, and I met

5:28

John and Joe in 2019.

5:30

Then Covid hit. Uh, but

5:32

I joined the team 2021.

5:35

Yeah. So in the middle of all Covid and all

5:37

that. So yeah, it's all sort of

5:40

ministry. Picked back up again last year and we've

5:42

been we've been going from there.

5:44

We're glad we get to be part of your journey.

5:46

If you have questions about creation

5:49

and evolution you can get those in right

5:51

now. (800) 555-7898

5:55

back with these gentlemen in just a few

5:57

moments, an American tour.

6:00

I love this Joseph Hubbard with us.

6:02

And you are the director at

6:04

the creation. Uh,

6:06

I want to say Creation Museum, because that's what

6:08

I'm used to here in the States. Sure.

6:11

All partnered together because, you know, Ken

6:13

Ham. Ken Ham spend well, not partner.

6:15

Partner. I know you're shaking your head.

6:17

We work with closely with answers and Genesis,

6:19

particularly in the UK. We do conferences

6:21

and stuff together with them and so and they go

6:23

they go way back to the beginning. But yes, we're creation

6:25

research. Yes. And we do have our own,

6:27

uh, museum project as well. So we,

6:29

we work with some of the other organizations

6:32

with their museums. But, um, Glenn,

6:34

here in the US, you have a sort of a touring museum

6:36

that goes around.

6:37

Creation Station, which is a

6:39

mobile museum that we can go to churches,

6:41

we can go to businesses, set up,

6:44

display our evidences

6:46

of creation, and then use

6:48

that to lead us into a discussion about

6:51

the gospel love. That's what it's

6:53

all about.

6:53

So closely associated, everyone is

6:55

closely associated to get the gospel out and to talk

6:57

about creation.

6:58

Common purpose. Yeah. Which is to to

7:00

back up the Bible and to spread the gospel.

7:02

And you're backing up the Bible with some pretty

7:04

big teeth and a big old bone that you

7:07

brought into the studio this morning. What you got Joseph

7:09

here.

7:09

So this is actually I mean, I'm just looking at this, right?

7:11

This is sort of what, three feet?

7:13

It's about three feet long.

7:14

Big, big bone. This is one

7:16

section out of four.

7:18

The the full bone which we have

7:20

the full bone is nearly eight feet

7:23

in length. Wow. I know that's a that's

7:25

a big it's a big bone.

7:26

It's a huge bone.

7:27

And it's a rib bone of

7:29

an Apatosaurus, which is one of those big

7:31

long necked dinosaurs. Right. So

7:33

it's a it's a huge bone. This is one that was found in

7:35

Utah. So it's one of it's one of yours. Right.

7:38

And we're taking it back to the UK with us,

7:40

uh, because we're going to do some analysis of

7:42

the bone and sort of dig inside and have a look. But

7:44

it does give you sort of a bit of an idea of

7:46

size. I'm sort of struggling to hold this up. Yeah,

7:49

right. It looks and it's just one of four

7:51

sections of this single bone.

7:53

Uh, that's that's a that's a big bone. These

7:56

were big creatures. These dinosaurs.

7:57

You said that one bone is about eight feet long.

7:59

Eight feet long. Yes. And weighs an

8:01

awful lot. An awful lot.

8:03

No. I will admit that for a

8:06

long time I had thought that

8:08

if dinosaurs were real and okay,

8:10

we see the evidence of from

8:12

dinosaur bones and all that, they probably had to have

8:14

been real. But, you know, people

8:16

who tended to have a young

8:19

earth view of age say, how do they fit in

8:21

the Bible storyline? Oh, maybe they they

8:23

were all destroyed in the flood. Yeah.

8:24

All destroyed. And there's so many different ideas.

8:26

I mean, just from my from my dad, right

8:28

when he, he was an atheist before he became a Christian.

8:31

When he did become a Christian, his big question was, what

8:33

do I do about the dinosaurs? Exactly. And he

8:35

went to church. And the person in the church,

8:37

the pastor in the church told him, well, dinosaurs,

8:39

they have big, horrible claws. They have horns

8:42

on their head. They love to kill things. I

8:44

don't think that God would have created that. So I

8:46

believe that Satan created the dinosaurs.

8:48

So for for. Yeah, I see your

8:50

face, right? For four years of my life, I

8:52

was banned from having anything to do with dinosaurs.

8:54

And I've been taking revenge ever since. I.

8:57

I dig the things up. Right. But it's a big

8:59

question. How does it fit? Okay, start

9:02

with the Bible. Okay. Philippians chapter

9:04

two verse five says, let this mind be in you. That

9:06

is also in Christ. So if we're going to understand

9:08

answers about dinosaurs, we need to view

9:10

dinosaurs from God's perspective. Right

9:13

in the beginning, God created the heavens and

9:15

the earth and everything was very good.

9:17

And you and I view good as a moral word.

9:19

But and it is. But it's a lot more than that,

9:21

because God described what his creation was

9:23

like. The climate was good, animals

9:26

only ate plants, and man was in

9:28

charge of the animals. God was in charge of

9:30

man. Man was in charge of animals. That was

9:32

the hierarchy. In a perfect world,

9:34

dinosaurs, by definition, are

9:37

land creatures. Land creatures

9:39

were made on day six of creation. Dinosaurs

9:41

were made on day six of creation alongside

9:44

man, according to the Bible. But

9:46

then you have a change. Man sins.

9:49

Yep. Okay. That hierarchy

9:51

God over man, man over animals

9:53

gets broken down. There's now a separation

9:55

between God and man because of sin. As

9:57

a result, the world is cursed. And there's now

9:59

a. Change between man and animals,

10:01

because no longer do we have good dominion.

10:04

The animals have a fear of man,

10:06

right? So there's a breakdown of

10:08

this hierarchy. By the time you

10:10

get down to Noah's flood, the world has gone from

10:12

good to bad to worse, right?

10:15

So now we have animals eating meat.

10:17

Now we have a breakdown between animals

10:19

and man, and we have a rejection

10:22

between man and God. God, man becomes

10:24

so bad. God judges the world with a global

10:26

flood. And there's no doubt about it, you

10:28

go digging dinosaurs up with me, right? You will

10:30

find abundant evidence that most

10:32

of the dinosaurs have drowned, and

10:34

they are in rock sediments that go all across

10:37

the world. Right? You think dinosaurs?

10:39

You think Jurassic, right? Yeah. And most people

10:41

think Jurassic, you know, films and Jurassic

10:43

millions of years. Reality is Jurassic

10:46

was named after the Jura mountains in Germany,

10:48

right? Because of where they were found.

10:51

What's the significance? Well, the man who

10:53

named them was Alexander von Humboldt. He

10:55

traveled the world, right. He was the king's geographer

10:57

from Germany. And he recognized that

10:59

rocks in the United Kingdom, rocks in

11:01

the United States, rocks all over the world

11:04

matched the ones in the Jura mountains. So he

11:06

said, hey, we'll call them the Jurassic.

11:08

So you know what that's just told you? These

11:10

Jurassic rocks go all over the world, and

11:13

they all contain land animals and land

11:15

plants buried next to fish and sea creatures.

11:18

They are all buried clearly in

11:20

a great big watery catastrophe.

11:22

So there's no doubt about it. I strongly

11:24

believe that most of the dinosaur fossils that we

11:26

find were formed during Noah's flood.

11:28

But do you remember that definition of a dinosaur?

11:31

It was a land dwelling, air breathing animal that

11:33

was made on day six. Now God

11:35

sent Noah to of every

11:37

land dwelling, air breathing animal.

11:39

And seven of the clean ones. Yeah, right.

11:41

So what do you think? Does that mean that dinosaurs

11:43

weren't on Noah's Ark?

11:44

I would think.

11:45

So. It by that definition, they would they would.

11:47

Right. And so the logical question is, well, how on earth

11:49

did they fit? Right. We've

11:51

got a big bone here, right? This is a big creature.

11:53

This is a, you know, 20 ton, two story

11:56

tall creature. Um, well, what's interesting

11:58

is in our museum collection, we have

12:00

a set of dinosaur eggs right from one of the largest

12:03

ever creatures. And they're about the size

12:05

of an American football. Right. That

12:07

is a small creature that would have hatched out of

12:09

that. No trouble fitting on the ark at all.

12:12

So then what happened after

12:14

that? We got to take a break, and we'll come back

12:16

and find out what happened. Dinosaurs.

12:19

They're always intriguing, especially

12:21

as we look at how God created

12:23

the earth. And we have Joseph Hubbard with us talking

12:26

about that from the creation

12:28

research in in the United

12:30

Kingdom. That's why he talks a lot

12:32

like Briggs. You recognize that beautifully.

12:35

Writer researcher for Creation Research

12:37

Worldwide and UK director Joseph

12:40

Hubbard is in the studio with us. And

12:42

Joseph, we're just talking a little bit about dinosaurs a

12:44

second ago and how they would have been

12:47

on Noah's Ark. Yeah. So where

12:49

are they now if they.

12:50

Yeah. I mean, it went on Noah's Ark. Fine. You know, small

12:53

eggs hatch out. So what happened to them? Where

12:55

did they go? The common

12:57

belief about the extinction of the dinosaurs

12:59

has something to do with a large, you know, asteroid

13:01

coming in and all that, right? And

13:03

there's very little evidence for it, despite,

13:05

you know, David Attenborough and Brian Cox standing up

13:08

on the BBC and saying, we know that an

13:10

asteroid came and destroyed the dinosaurs 65

13:12

million years ago, and we don't

13:14

if you want some fun, actually,

13:17

Google. Right. Particularly in academic

13:19

Google like Google Scholar and have

13:21

a little Google as to ideas as to why the dinosaurs

13:23

died out because the asteroid extinction

13:25

is just one of them. My favorite ones

13:28

include that flowers evolved at the time

13:30

of the dinosaurs, and the dinosaurs were

13:32

allergic to. They were allergic to black fever and

13:34

died. I think my favorite one of all of them

13:36

is that marijuana evolved and the dinosaurs

13:39

all got high and died. No genuine

13:41

theory that's out there. Okay, um,

13:43

so the reality is, in the scientific

13:46

world, we do not know, right?

13:48

What happened to the dinosaurs? Um, in

13:50

that in that sense, the there is not a scientific

13:52

consensus on it. Asteroid? Nothing. So

13:55

what happened to him from a biblical perspective?

13:57

Most of the fossils formed during Noah's flood.

13:59

Young dinosaurs, small dinosaurs go

14:01

on Noah's Ark. They come out to repopulate the

14:03

earth. But remember where we started?

14:05

In the beginning, everything was very good.

14:08

The world was cursed and the world went from good to

14:10

bad. Noah's flood world goes

14:12

from good to bad to worse. Because at the

14:14

end of the flood in Genesis

14:16

chapter eight, God promises Noah

14:18

right famous rainbow never flood the earth again.

14:21

But that wasn't the only covenant. There was also rules

14:23

about diet. And there was also

14:25

a promise about the climate.

14:27

It said, God said to Noah that for as long as

14:29

the earth shall remain, there will be seed time,

14:31

harvest, cold, heat, summer and winter.

14:34

First reference to erratic

14:36

climate. Major changes

14:38

in climates. Now, if you're very

14:40

large, cold blooded reptile,

14:42

you need some very specific climate to

14:44

be able to survive. Okay, if

14:46

you change that climate so

14:48

that well, what's the most common

14:50

biome? The most common right landscape

14:52

today it's temperate grassland.

14:55

Now that means you need to be a

14:57

warm blooded to be able to cope with the cold. And

14:59

b you need to have a special four chambered stomach

15:02

and able to digest grass. Right?

15:04

So we're talking about, you know, cows,

15:06

wildebeest, bison, horses,

15:09

that kind of stuff. Right? All of a sudden the

15:11

places where you can survive as a dinosaur

15:13

is limited. The places where you can thrive

15:15

as a dinosaur is virtually nowhere.

15:17

So there's a major shift between

15:20

what appears to be before the flood and

15:22

what appears to be after the flood in terms of

15:24

the animal population. A majority

15:27

reptile before the flood, a majority

15:29

mammal after the flood because of this change

15:31

in climate. And then also,

15:33

you know, how do animals normally go extinct? Hunting,

15:36

lack of vegetation, an lack of ability to survive

15:38

in an area, climate change. Right. All

15:40

this kind of stuff is, is very real.

15:43

And so there's no issue with the dinosaurs going

15:45

extinct at all. Um, in a very

15:47

short period, because most of them would have been wiped

15:49

out. And quite frankly, you'd never get back

15:51

up to the populations that we see in the fossil record.

15:54

Wow. Okay, there you go.

15:56

I'm like so riveted. I'm just listening.

15:58

But I'm also thinking about Jurassic Park

16:01

and wondering, okay, in our pop culture,

16:03

this is how we view dinosaurs. Yeah. And

16:05

you saw one of or two

16:07

have you seen the Jurassic?

16:08

Seen some of the original ones. And your thoughts?

16:11

They're good. They're good fun. You know, they're science fiction,

16:13

but there's a few interesting sort of

16:15

points to take out of them, right? The first one is

16:17

beware of false science. That's what

16:19

the apostle Paul says to Timothy, right? Beware

16:22

of science falsely so called right science

16:24

being the old Greek word for knowledge. All

16:26

right. Uh, in Jurassic Park, you have

16:28

these great big 5 to 6 foot tall velociraptors.

16:31

Well, in reality, they were only the size

16:34

of a large chicken. Okay, so

16:36

to be wary of a little different, but at least

16:38

not.

16:39

Scary enough for Spielberg.

16:40

Exactly. Yeah, but at least Jurassic Park

16:42

had scales on their dinosaurs, because

16:44

all the indication tells us that

16:46

these creatures had scales. Now,

16:48

the popular belief nowadays is that they were

16:50

covered in feathers, and the grand total

16:52

of fossil feathers were found attached to a Velociraptor

16:55

is nil. Okay, we haven't found them, despite

16:58

the fact that we've gone to

17:00

some world class, uh, fossil

17:02

casting companies. People who make

17:04

copies of fossils. We've ordered a Velociraptor

17:06

fossil cast off of them, and it

17:08

comes covered in feathers. And I said to

17:10

them, well, as far as I'm aware, we've not found any

17:13

feathers. And he said, no. He said, we've been

17:15

requested so many times by museums

17:17

around the world to have a cast of

17:19

a Velociraptor covered in feathers, but we can't find

17:21

anywhere one to cast a copyright.

17:23

So we've had to draw the feathers on ourselves.

17:25

Uh, now, if you go into a museum

17:28

and you see a feathered velociraptor on the wall,

17:30

what are you going to think about? Evolution? Here's

17:32

evidence of dinosaurs turning into birds.

17:34

But. Beware of false science,

17:36

right? That's the first thing. Second thing, very

17:39

briefly. And this is what I've done academically,

17:41

right? Uh, what did Jurassic Park

17:43

do? You have a little mosquito?

17:45

It takes some of the the blood.

17:47

Right? And then you take the blood and the DNA

17:50

out of the blood. You do something strange with a frog,

17:52

and you end up with a dinosaur. Now,

17:54

I'm sure we can all agree that's science fiction, but

17:56

two things. Number one, that concept

17:59

of soft tissue, soft, squishy

18:01

stuff from dinosaurs still being

18:03

present in bone really is

18:06

there? We've done it. We can extract

18:08

collagen, we can extract red blood cells,

18:10

we can extract nerve cells and

18:12

ligaments. And it's phenomenal the amount of stuff

18:14

that's in there. And the reality is,

18:17

there is no way that you can preserve

18:19

something like collagen for 65

18:21

plus million years, right? We

18:23

know what the life, the shelf life of

18:25

collagen is. It's a protein. It's meat.

18:28

You put a steak out in the sun, it's going to go off.

18:30

Now you can extend that shelf life of the steak

18:32

by putting it in the fridge or freezing it, or

18:34

salting it, but it still has a shelf

18:36

life. And there's no way that this meat,

18:39

this protein can last for 65 million

18:41

years. So it's a good indication that

18:43

the bones are not actually as old

18:45

as they're purported to be. And finally,

18:48

and the thing that amused me the most right about

18:50

this all you have this mosquito sucking

18:52

dinosaur blood, right? Take the DNA

18:54

from the blood cells and make a dinosaur.

18:57

Red blood cells don't have DNA in them.

18:59

They were the only cells in the

19:01

body that don't have DNA, because their sole

19:03

purpose is to transport oxygen

19:06

around the body. That's why they're red, right?

19:08

Because of the iron. So, yeah,

19:10

it's it. Beware of false science and

19:12

enjoy science fiction. Don't get me wrong. Right.

19:14

But recognize it as being science fiction

19:17

and be wary about letting that

19:19

influence the way that you view the real

19:21

world.

19:22

Keep it in its place. Keep it in its place.

19:24

There, though. That is stone. It's

19:27

rock. And you're telling me that there is

19:29

soft, squishy stuff?

19:30

Well, um, it's interesting

19:32

because, uh, this

19:35

fossil dinosaur bone is not stone, so

19:37

maybe we should, uh, we should come back and talk

19:39

about that, because let's talk about what

19:41

a fossil actually is, because lots of people think

19:43

a fossil means turned to stone. It is. It doesn't

19:45

necessarily mean that. So we should

19:47

talk about that when we come back.

19:49

We'll get that straight from the educator's

19:51

mouth as he's done the research

19:53

and it's creation research. United

19:55

Kingdom Creation Research UK. Com

19:58

as we talk to Joseph Hubbard, hey, we've

20:00

connected you through our Facebook page, Don and Steve

20:02

in the morning. Cathy,

20:04

thank you for your text. (800) 555-7898

20:08

phenomenal interview. You said as

20:10

we talked to Joseph Hubbard, and we are talking

20:12

about creation, and you

20:14

brought in a big dinosaur bone.

20:16

It's just a part of an eight foot section

20:19

of a rib. And yet we

20:21

often think that fossils

20:23

are rocks. So are we. Right.

20:25

Okay. Well, just a

20:27

quick point, first of all, because and thank

20:30

you for the for the comment. Right. Phenomenal interview. But

20:32

this there's so much stuff we could go and talk

20:34

about here. Right. So if you want to find

20:36

out more go to Creation Research dot net

20:38

and click on the fact file. There's a Q&A

20:40

site. You can follow me and where we're going

20:43

and come and see us. Right. And we've still got some

20:45

gaps in the itinerary. So get in touch.

20:47

But when it comes to fossils, a lot of people

20:49

think turned to stone. But a

20:51

fossil literally just means in a hole,

20:53

right? It means to be dug up. So

20:55

what is a fossil there? Preserved remains

20:58

of creatures or plants or

21:00

organisms from the past. Now,

21:02

in some cases it is turned to stone.

21:04

An example would be petrified

21:06

wood, right? There's none of the wood left

21:08

in there. Usually it's all turned to stone.

21:11

Now, occasionally you do find some other

21:13

forms, like, you know, carbonization. That's what

21:15

coal is. Sometimes you do find right in

21:17

the center of these petrified trees, there is still fresh

21:19

wood that you can take out and burn. And that's

21:21

remarkable because that's soft tissue. Right.

21:24

Um, but when it comes to the bones, like

21:26

this dinosaur bone, it's not turned to

21:29

stone. Uh, the technical term

21:31

we use is permineralized.

21:33

So break the word down.

21:35

Permineralized permeated with

21:37

minerals. It's as simple as that.

21:40

You have a bone. Bone is very porous.

21:42

Right? You know, you've got the honeycomb structure in the center.

21:44

Well, that's just one part of the the

21:46

holy part of the bone, right? Even the really

21:49

dense bone around the edge is full

21:51

of holes, microscopic holes, but full

21:53

of holes. So if you bury your bone

21:55

in the right conditions, then

21:57

minerals will permeate the bone, go

21:59

into the bone infill and entrap the bone

22:02

in case the bone. So you have

22:04

preserved the bone in stone,

22:06

not turned it to stone.

22:08

Now that means that when you hold this

22:10

bone here and you hold the bone. Just a minute ago, I did.

22:12

Yeah. This bone is the very

22:14

bone that was inside the dinosaur.

22:17

It hasn't changed. Hasn't turned to stone.

22:19

It's still there. It's been preserved

22:22

in stone. Now, that means that when

22:24

we come to doing analysis on it, in testing,

22:26

you can take a sample of that bone. You

22:28

grind it into a powder very, very fine,

22:30

right between 25 and 50

22:32

microns. So microscopic particles

22:35

you then demineralize the

22:37

bone. So that means get rid of the minerals that preserve

22:39

the bone. You then digest the bone

22:41

using a type of acid that gets rid

22:43

of all of the inorganic part of the bone.

22:46

You're left with anything that's organic

22:48

in a little solution. So anything that's soft and squidgy

22:50

will be in a little solution. You test

22:52

it using something like a mass spectrometer, right.

22:55

Spins it around really fast, tells you what's in it,

22:57

and you end up analyzing

22:59

things like collagen. Collagen

23:01

is a soft, squishy protein.

23:03

Think protein, think meat. Right.

23:06

Uh, that's a principal part of

23:08

bone. And you're finding these amazing

23:10

things inside bone

23:12

that simply couldn't last for millions

23:15

of years. Wow.

23:16

I'm fascinated by this.

23:18

I'm telling you, have, like, five rivets with you,

23:20

right? They're riveting.

23:21

All right. So. But laying right next to the dinosaur

23:23

bone, you brought in a couple of what

23:25

looks like some pretty big teeth.

23:27

Well, I'm going to tell you a little story here, because it has a

23:29

lot to do with our beliefs

23:32

and the way that we view things. So can

23:34

you tell me what that is?

23:35

It. It is a tooth.

23:36

It's a tooth. Do you know what kind of animal it's from?

23:38

I to me it looks like a shark's tooth, but

23:41

I don't know.

23:41

You're absolutely right. Yeah, it is a shark. This is from a great

23:43

white shark, right? Oh, wow. And you knew it was a great

23:45

white shark tooth because it looked like a great white shark tooth.

23:47

Right. And then down here we

23:49

have a much, much bigger shark tooth.

23:52

That thing looks like it's about seven inches

23:54

long and about five inches wide.

23:56

Yeah.

23:57

Giant black teeth the size of a hand,

23:59

right. Or a big hand. Uh, this is from

24:01

the megalodon. Right. And, uh, it's

24:03

effectively just a great big, great white

24:05

shark. Now, the little bit

24:07

of a story, right? The ancient

24:10

Greeks dug these teeth up, right? These these

24:12

shark teeth, fossil shark teeth. But the ancient

24:14

Greeks believed in a different

24:16

worldview, a different philosophy to

24:18

what we believe in. They believed in

24:20

many, many gods. And they believe that

24:22

their gods were just like us, but

24:25

bigger. So if we can play tricks,

24:27

the gods could play bigger tricks. And

24:29

the Greeks dug shark teeth like this little

24:31

shark teeth out of the rocks. And they said,

24:33

good try, Zeus. We know that sharks

24:35

live in the water. They don't live in the rocks. These

24:38

must be tricks played on us by the Greek

24:40

gods. Now that is a 100%

24:43

logical conclusion. Just happens to be

24:45

100% false, right? Right. So logic doesn't

24:47

always equal truth. But what you'll find is

24:49

the Greeks influenced the Romans, the Romans

24:51

influenced the rest of the West. And

24:54

you will find that all down throughout the Middle Ages,

24:56

the people believe that these shark

24:58

teeth were just tricks played on them,

25:00

not by the Greek gods. By the time you get

25:02

to the Middle Ages. But by the

25:04

devil. Now, how did we get from

25:07

that? To believing these were shark teeth?

25:09

Enter Nicolas Steno, a

25:11

man from the 1600s wrote a whole great

25:13

big, thick book all about if it looks

25:15

like a shark's tooth, both inside and outside,

25:18

guess what? Probably is a shark's

25:20

tooth, right? If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck

25:22

and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

25:24

All right, well, how did he come to that conclusion?

25:26

Simple answer. He was a Christian. He

25:29

believed in the Bible. And he believed two

25:31

things. Number one, in the beginning God created

25:33

and number two, he believed in Romans chapter

25:36

one, where it says that God has stamped his nature

25:38

onto creation so we can trust

25:40

the world that God has created just

25:42

as much as we can trust the creator who made it

25:44

in the first place. And so the simple

25:46

answer is, if this looks like a shark's tooth, it

25:48

is a shark's tooth. Now you can ask the question,

25:51

how did it get in the rocks? That's the science

25:53

of paleontology. And it all started

25:55

because a man trusted the Bible and

25:57

actually asked questions about the world

25:59

in light of the Bible.

26:01

Well, all right, so I'm so fascinated

26:03

by this last, uh, question we probably

26:05

have time for. And this is we

26:08

probably spend a whole hour on just this, but

26:10

you began the conversation by saying we

26:12

do creation, recreation, research

26:14

as a part of ministry so that we can tell

26:16

people about Jesus and the gospel

26:18

and all of that.

26:19

That's what it's all.

26:20

About, right? And I love that. So

26:22

how does having a biblical

26:24

understanding of creation

26:27

equate to bringing people to

26:29

salvation and the gospel message?

26:31

Okay. Um, think about what evolution

26:34

is. Evolution is a story that

26:36

was sold to us based on the pagan Greek

26:38

beliefs, which was promoted by Charles Darwin

26:40

and quote unquote, Charles Lyell,

26:43

who introduced us to millions of years, was

26:45

a mentor of Charles Darwin, quote

26:47

unquote. My aim is to free science from Moses,

26:50

right? It's to get rid of God out of people's

26:52

thinking. Why? Well, Moses

26:55

first five books of the Bible right, are

26:57

in there. You have the creation to the law.

26:59

If you get rid of

27:01

all of that, then you have

27:03

no basis for Christianity or morality

27:05

whatsoever. You see, if you believe

27:07

that if given enough time, you can call out

27:09

of the slime. There's no need for a creator.

27:12

Death has always been a part of the world.

27:14

There's no life after death.

27:16

There's nothing special about us. We're no different

27:18

from animals. And the rest of the Bible comes

27:21

falling down. However, if you start

27:23

with Jesus Christ as the creator.

27:25

Ah, now all of a sudden we're made in his

27:28

image. Now all of a sudden we've sinned

27:30

and need a Savior. Now all of a sudden, Jesus

27:32

Christ did come. The word became flesh

27:34

and dwelt among us, and he died on a cross.

27:36

And you'll find in both the Old Testament and the

27:38

New Testament, it's Jesus Christ who's

27:40

given the credit of creating John chapter one,

27:43

the word who was the creator. Colossians

27:45

116 all things were made by Christ

27:47

and for Christ. Hebrews. He

27:49

made all things through the world. That's where we

27:51

need to start.

27:52

Boy, there's so much that we unfortunately

27:55

do not have time to get to. But I want to encourage you

27:57

to connect with creation research.

27:59

And so we've got links on the Facebook page.

28:01

You can go right there, Don Steve, in the morning

28:04

when you're on Facebook. We so appreciate you guys

28:06

coming in and joining us this morning.