0:00

And we're glad you're with us on this Tuesday

0:02

morning. And I love these Tuesday mornings

0:04

where we have Phil Herndon in studio with us.

0:06

Phil is a clinical director at River

0:09

train with Tin Man Ministries, and we're going to spend

0:11

a little time talking about a

0:13

healthy self-identity this

0:15

morning. We began that conversation last hour,

0:17

and if you missed any of that, you can always go back

0:19

and you can listen a little bit later through our website,

0:21

Don and Steve. Org or through the Moody

0:24

Radio app. But Phil, as

0:26

we talk about a healthy self-identity,

0:29

uh, for those who have not been with us, just really

0:32

quickly, uh, I want to hit

0:34

what does it mean?

0:36

You talked about the fact that, uh,

0:38

we need to get our identity from

0:40

God. He breathed life into Adam, and

0:43

with that comes identity. So if we properly

0:45

understand who we are,

0:48

what is what are we grasping?

0:50

What are we owning if we're going to have

0:52

a healthy self-identity?

0:54

Yeah, that, you know, we went

0:56

all the way back at the beginning, an hour ago to

0:58

the fact that God, God created

1:01

us based on his generative

1:03

love, big word. That just means it generated from

1:05

him the origin is he he.

1:07

He didn't need someone. He

1:09

created someone to love out

1:11

of love. And so where where

1:14

that gets where we get our understanding

1:16

of identity is rooted in him,

1:18

but also knowing that we live in a world

1:20

after Genesis three, that's going to throw

1:23

all kinds of stuff at us, all kinds of

1:25

muck and terror and trouble. And so

1:27

identity means I stay anchored

1:29

in that. Recognizing that we talked

1:31

about last hour, the my container,

1:34

my ability to be able to to absorb

1:36

how the world works, remaining

1:39

anchored in that identity you talked about, Steve,

1:41

is kind of one of the keys, and we're not going to do it perfectly

1:43

some days, not even going to do it very well. But

1:45

it's anchored in that navigating

1:48

a world able to deal with my own emotional

1:50

world, my own container, to

1:52

contain my own feelings in the world that gives us

1:55

that sense of healthy identity.

1:57

Yeah, so, so big, so

1:59

very big and then the big things

2:01

of life that distract us and get us off

2:03

of that path that God has designed

2:06

for us in the intimacy with him.

2:08

It could be something like anorexia,

2:11

dealing with anorexia your whole life,

2:13

knowing that that's control

2:15

and sister texting in saying,

2:17

you know, how does that affect our self-image

2:19

and our image in Christ? What do we do

2:22

with that? Because it's taken over.

2:24

We've talked about a couplet,

2:26

I guess you could say, if you imagine two,

2:29

two circles, uh, across

2:31

from one another horizontally and one

2:33

says desire for connection, the

2:35

other says fear of rejection. And

2:37

both of those are in play. If you think

2:39

of that same scheme, you think we have

2:42

a knowledge of self in

2:44

one circle and go to the right across

2:46

the page, if you will. In another circle there is

2:48

an image of self. And

2:51

so we have knowledge. I have these

2:53

skills. I have these limitations, I like

2:55

this, I don't like that I'm wherever

2:57

those kinds of things. Well, that's one thing. It sits

2:59

over there in that thinking brain as data

3:01

we go, okay, I know this about myself, but

3:04

our image of self is a completely different

3:06

thing. And so the delta, the

3:09

change, the difference between those two things

3:11

is a whole lot about what this, this

3:13

caller, this listener is talking about.

3:15

Like when we have an eating disorder, for instance,

3:18

we may have knowledge that this particular

3:21

food is good for me, is good for me to

3:23

have nutrition in my body. That's what helps

3:25

me grow and and to be able

3:27

to live life fully in terms of health,

3:29

physical health, that's my knowledge of self.

3:32

But my image may be, you know, the

3:34

fancy word is body dysmorphia. My my

3:36

image may be I'm grotesque

3:38

or I'm too big or I'm this or I'm that, and

3:41

I have got to have control of my life

3:43

in some way or another. And so what

3:45

I can control is what I see in

3:47

the mirror and what I do with food

3:50

and so I'm really glad that the listener

3:52

call that in or, or email that in, because

3:54

that delta between what she

3:57

knows about herself and

3:59

how she sees herself is really big.

4:01

And so that anchor point of her

4:03

identity in in Christ, in God as

4:05

his creation is a starting point

4:08

to be able to both speak and

4:10

listen, have that container to grow, which is

4:12

true for all of us, not just the listener, but

4:14

for that container to grow, to hear feedback,

4:16

to hear other people say, this is

4:18

my image of you. You know, we

4:20

call that feedback. And then the body. We call that giving.

4:23

Giving each other encouragement or

4:25

rebuke or confrontation or whatever it may be.

4:27

It's one of the one anothers speak truth to

4:29

one another.

4:30

So when we

4:33

have that self knowledge

4:35

but we have a skewed self image,

4:37

do we find, do you think that most people recognize

4:40

that their image is so skewed,

4:42

or do they need somebody to tell them that.

4:44

Well, you know, both. Some people,

4:46

can we hear it all the time and

4:48

not just in a therapist office or a pastor's office? We

4:50

hear all the time, I know the right thing to do.

4:52

I just can't do it, you know? And that's

4:54

where we have to move into that emotional

4:56

world where we what we're

4:58

talking about is, I've run to

5:00

the end of my ability to learn enough

5:03

or be good enough, or be tough enough that

5:05

that's run out. And so when that

5:07

runs out, um, that's when we get

5:09

into the emotional how story impacts

5:11

that, how how that lens

5:14

change. And we all have a lens.

5:16

And Adam and Eve's lens was

5:18

in the beginning was altered

5:20

by Satan. And ultimately he's

5:23

the one that alters it for the bad. But people

5:25

also alter it. Who raises

5:27

us, how we grow up, the messages we

5:29

get. Going back to that question that

5:31

God said to Adam, Adam, who told you that?

5:33

Who told you those things about yourself

5:35

that you have to take control in ego

5:38

and that delta between your

5:40

knowledge of self and your image of self is so

5:42

big now.

5:43

Is that where these neural pathways

5:45

get changed in us, Phil? And we

5:47

realize, because I can just hear

5:50

in my own story. Yes, I ran

5:52

to the end of my road. Okay, now I

5:54

have this self-image that I'm going to try to control.

5:57

I can hear you tell me.

5:59

Listen, God made you and

6:01

he gave you life in Christ.

6:04

That is enough. And truly

6:06

it is. But there's something in my brain

6:08

that says, I don't get it.

6:10

I just if I'm honest, I really, really

6:13

don't get it. My spirit gets it, but

6:15

my physical being doesn't get it. Is

6:17

that where we need to get into the neural pathways

6:19

and and and let the Lord change

6:22

those? That takes time.

6:23

It does take time. And that that's. Yes.

6:26

The short answer is yes. That's what we must

6:28

do because of that being created for

6:30

connection. You know, God wasn't messing

6:32

around and God wasn't going, I don't know. Here's

6:34

a pretty good idea. Maybe we just create people like

6:37

he wasn't doing that. There was a very intentional.

6:39

And so if he did that on purpose,

6:42

then we know that that desire for

6:44

connection that the Trinity has always

6:46

had, we know that is baked into

6:48

our very creative created DNA.

6:51

Therefore, when we have those deep,

6:53

truth telling, safe connections

6:55

with other people, that's what literally begins

6:57

to to change those trenches in

6:59

our brains called neural pathways.

7:01

It's a big thing, but it's doable.

7:04

Trusting the Lord the entire way.

7:06

It's as my grandpa would say, it's not just gobbledegook.

7:09

It is true. And God

7:12

has given us one another. That

7:14

goes back to His Word to help one

7:16

another. And that's what the Bible

7:18

tells us to love one another. More of this

7:20

coming up as we talk to Phil Herndon.

7:23

We are grateful to have conversations with

7:26

our friend who is counselor,

7:28

pastor and with ten

7:30

man ministries. Org. You can connect

7:32

with ten man ministries org through our Facebook

7:35

page. Or certainly if you text we

7:37

can send you the link (800) 555-7898.

7:41

And as we look at Wendy's

7:43

question that came in and we addressed that,

7:45

I think, Phil, you did that beautifully to remind

7:47

us that who we are in Christ

7:50

looking. In the mirror often

7:52

reflects poorly because we

7:54

develop this self-image, and it

7:56

may not be an accurate image

7:58

that God has created, but

8:00

it is what our brain is receiving. And you

8:02

talked about our past, and you talked about story

8:05

and how our containers for one

8:07

another. So let's go back there to containers,

8:10

because I, I don't

8:12

even know if we can hear that. Can we even

8:14

hear that you have people in your office all

8:16

the time. Are we so self-centered

8:19

that you talk about containers for

8:21

hearing someone else's story, supporting, encouraging,

8:24

loving? Well, and that's what Christ has called

8:26

us to, is to love one another. But

8:29

we've turned it to be so self-centered.

8:31

Like, well, how does that serve me? I'm reading

8:34

Mere Christianity. Lewis talked

8:36

about this way back. Like we

8:38

tend to look at right and wrong through the lens of,

8:40

well, you're wrong because

8:43

you're inconveniencing me, not

8:45

you're wrong morally or ultimately.

8:47

But yeah, that that just

8:50

doesn't work for me. So you must be wrong. How

8:52

do we shift that to grow our

8:54

containers so that we can

8:56

love one another and not just self?

8:59

Yeah. The you know, there's

9:01

so much in that question that's

9:03

wrapped up that.

9:04

Little bitty question. Yeah.

9:05

Like like from

9:07

Genesis three, you know, three chapters

9:09

later, uh, God's like, okay,

9:12

well, completely off the rails.

9:14

We're resetting here. It's, you

9:16

know, we humans are that good at it that far

9:18

back. So not new. But,

9:20

you know, you said something important there, Dawn.

9:22

It's like when we talk to one another. I

9:24

think it was Chuck Swindoll that said, man,

9:27

the good news is the church is is

9:29

are the living church is made of living stones.

9:31

He said. The problem becomes when they start talking to each

9:34

other, you know, and you're

9:36

talking about container. You said people are so self-absorbed,

9:38

which is actually true. But in some

9:40

other ways. Dawn Steve, it

9:43

people are so scared

9:45

that their containers are small. Uh,

9:47

you know, if we're not paying attention emotionally,

9:50

if someone says that they're angry or

9:52

afraid or sad or

9:54

grieving, we we sometimes

9:57

in the church can become so scared

9:59

when someone says that we don't we don't like

10:01

struggle. We don't want them to struggle. So we'll do things.

10:03

Job's friends come to mind. Uh,

10:05

they went to knowledge. And if you read

10:07

the book of Job out of context,

10:10

a lot of things they say about God is is

10:12

accurate data. But in the context

10:14

of the conversation they're having, it's crazy.

10:16

And so we can we often

10:18

will want to use like they got afraid they're

10:21

looking at job. He's a physical mess.

10:23

He's a mental mess. Like

10:25

he this guy was in horrible shape

10:27

and they could not tolerate

10:29

seeing the condition he was in. They couldn't

10:32

contain it. And so they started attempting

10:34

to talk him out of it with knowledge, talk

10:36

him out of it with logic, talk him out of it with

10:38

saying accurate data about God.

10:41

And so we often do that. I don't

10:43

think his friends were attempting to harm him. I don't

10:45

think they were wanting to hurt him worse. I think

10:47

they thought they were helping, but

10:49

their containers could not contain

10:51

what they were seeing and hearing. And so

10:53

they were throwing data at him to try to convince

10:56

him or find a reason for something.

10:58

We don't do well with mystery.

11:00

Well, we don't do well

11:02

with it. And then,

11:05

because sometimes I don't think we know what to do.

11:07

Yeah. You know, we recognize

11:09

the fact that we are

11:11

weak, we are frail, we

11:13

don't know how to help others.

11:15

Maybe we're fearful that, you know, God

11:18

could allow something like that to happen to us as

11:20

well. And so when

11:22

we maybe have someone in our

11:24

life that is

11:26

going through a very hard time like

11:29

job was, they are absolutely

11:31

wrecked in some way and we

11:33

are a part of their life.

11:36

How can we expand

11:38

our container in a way that is healthy

11:41

and helpful and not,

11:44

you know, allowing anyone to wallow

11:46

in self-pity or anything like that, but,

11:48

you know, come alongside them and encourage

11:50

them without it feeling like

11:52

we're trying to just slap a Band-Aid on

11:54

a gaping wound.

11:55

Yes. You know, we go back to

11:57

that word comfort. That's what job

12:00

is really looking for. And you look

12:02

at the last syllable of that word

12:04

for it. It means fortification. So comfort

12:07

can have to do with soothing

12:09

someone. But comfort has mostly to do with fortification,

12:11

with strengthening someone. And so

12:14

if I'm paying attention to my internal

12:16

experience with someone grieving or struggling

12:18

or whatever it may be,

12:20

and maybe it's not sin that I need to confront

12:23

with them, maybe it's they're just having a really difficult

12:25

time. They're alienated or estranged.

12:27

You know, people are in great pain. There's

12:30

this crazy experiment that was done many

12:32

not too long ago where people

12:34

who were 40, people who were recently

12:36

broken up with in a relationship

12:38

were brought into a laboratory, and they

12:41

were shown images of the person

12:43

who had just dumped them, and they

12:45

recorded their brain activity

12:47

with that. When they saw that image, then

12:49

they put burn patches on their

12:52

arms and legs and recorded it as well.

12:54

The same spot lit up and the brain.

12:56

So people are literally hurting

12:59

physically and emotionally. Notice how when

13:01

we feel emotional hurt, we will bend over

13:03

as if to cover our vital organs. Well,

13:05

the brain's working and saying you're hurting.

13:07

And so we can just remember just that one little

13:10

thing that when people are hurting, they're literally

13:12

hurting. And if I can strengthen them

13:14

like a splint or a cast

13:16

or something, to be able to help, help keep that

13:19

bone right where it is because they're

13:21

immobilized in, in their

13:23

hurt. If I can just be that human

13:25

splint with fortification for

13:27

them to help tend to that wound,

13:29

it will go a long ways in a lot of those one

13:31

another's.

13:32

Now, the splint, though will do

13:34

its job, and then it's

13:36

taken away because the the

13:38

healing has happened. And how

13:41

do you know when that splint

13:43

is no longer needed? You're still in community

13:45

with that person. I see the time. Okay.

13:48

We'll come back to that in just a minute, because I

13:50

do think that we want to walk well, often

13:52

if our containers are are large

13:54

enough, like we are trying to love one another

13:57

and try to be there for one another. And

13:59

yet, at what point

14:01

is your is your container overflowing

14:03

with this other person's story?

14:05

And that's never going

14:08

to change for them. But you're kind

14:10

of like spent. We'll

14:12

come back and ask that. Get

14:14

the answer to that question. God

14:16

called us to love one another, to

14:18

be there for one another, to help one

14:21

another. And oftentimes we do

14:23

think that's just data throwing somebody

14:26

a lot of Scripture because scriptures are

14:28

true. And yet the emotional hurt,

14:30

the depth that doesn't receive

14:32

that all that well. And you referenced job and his friends,

14:34

Phil Herndon, as we talk

14:37

about though, what is real help

14:39

look like, it's kind of like you said, a splint or

14:41

a cast that will come alongside the

14:43

break and set it,

14:45

helping it to heal. And

14:47

then at some point the doctor says, okay, you don't

14:49

need that anymore. You're going to get stronger.

14:52

And this injury is

14:54

going to be okay emotionally,

14:57

though, if we're trying to be that splint or that

14:59

cast, at what point do we say,

15:01

okay, we're still here, we're not

15:03

leaving you. But it's time

15:05

to recognize that there's healing here.

15:07

Or is it a perpetual wound?

15:10

Yeah.

15:11

That's where we.

15:12

How do we know?

15:13

You know, my my professor, I

15:15

think was the first day of graduate school

15:17

said to our whole class, they come to

15:19

one of the weed out classes, said, hey,

15:22

if you want to join a profession

15:24

where you know for sure that everything you

15:26

say is objectively accurate and you got all these

15:28

measurements in the wrong place, you better.

15:30

Go back home.

15:31

And so all these nebulous

15:33

lines and like, you know, and

15:36

then the thought that God took on human flesh

15:38

to walk along these nebulous, they weren't

15:40

nebulous to him. But in his

15:42

humanness, he talked to people like

15:44

the rich young ruler who said, no thanks.

15:47

And Jesus, for lack of a better

15:49

term, let him walk away.

15:51

And then he challenges the syrophoenician woman.

15:53

And we read that and go, man, he's been hard on

15:55

her and and the woman at the well, tender

15:57

and sweet, the Samaritan woman. So Jesus

15:59

is all these different ways with people.

16:01

And one thing we know he's doing it perfectly

16:04

how to do that with these struggling people. And so

16:06

what what that question comes down to

16:08

is like, man, so often it's like, okay,

16:11

I'll help provide a splint

16:13

or a cast and maybe even I

16:15

was the cane as you started walking.

16:17

But at some point, because I care

16:19

about you and I can't

16:21

be your answer, what happens? A lot of times we put

16:24

pressure on ourselves to be someone's

16:26

ultimate answer. And

16:28

so we have to say to these people,

16:30

like, I'm not your ultimate answer.

16:32

I'm not unfriending you literally

16:34

or on Facebook. I'm not. Unfriending you. But

16:37

because I care about you, you've

16:40

got to. To create breadth

16:42

in your relationships. To help you

16:44

walk. We've got depth. We've walked together

16:46

for a long time, which I love. And so as

16:48

you, as you spread out and walk with

16:50

others and create depth with them,

16:53

that's how the body operates.

16:54

Yeah, and that's really good. But

16:57

sometimes I think we may struggle a little bit

16:59

with being that person

17:01

to help them when we ourselves are

17:03

hurting. Yeah. And Brian, appreciate your

17:06

question. This morning. He said, how do we do that

17:08

when we're hurting? How do we walk

17:10

with someone else in the midst of their pain,

17:12

their hurt, and maybe especially

17:15

if we've been a part of their hurt?

17:17

Mhm.

17:17

You know there's an old saying hurt people.

17:20

Hurt people. Yeah. And and sometimes

17:22

hurt people harm people. And that's

17:24

a whole different world there. And so especially

17:27

you know in intimate relationships like

17:29

marriage or like a deep, deep

17:31

friendship of many years or of great depth,

17:34

um, the I think the most important thing

17:36

we can do, I'll go back to that word we used in

17:38

the garden, the word confession. It's

17:41

like, if it's amazing, forget

17:43

therapy, forget pastor, just

17:45

fill with people and Dawn or Steve

17:47

with people. If we just make confession

17:49

like, hey, I know I've caused harm,

17:52

I know I've done this and

17:54

I need to confess to you that I know

17:56

I've caused the harm and I'm not sure exactly

17:58

what to do. I tell people a lot

18:00

like it. Sometimes it matters

18:02

more how we're talking to one another

18:05

than actually what we say. And

18:07

so we can spend time in these situations,

18:09

like Brian called in. Yeah.

18:10

What do you mean by that?

18:12

Um, for instance, let's just let's

18:14

just pick on you and me. Yeah. Um,

18:16

if Steve and I are friends and

18:18

we're having coffee and

18:20

I've caused you hurt, and I know I have,

18:22

and I'm. I'm the cause of some of why

18:24

you're limping. So I'm not only a splint. I'm

18:27

the hammer that hit you. Yeah. I'm both.

18:29

And so for me to sit down and go, hey, Steve,

18:31

I know we got stuff going on between

18:33

us, and I know I've caused some of it, and I'm

18:35

carrying stuff that you've done, too.

18:37

So let let let's have this cup of

18:39

coffee or, you know, with me and you, let's have these ten

18:41

cups of coffee. Yeah. Right.

18:43

As we.

18:44

As we talk about this and I want, I

18:46

want to I want us to talk about how we're

18:48

going to talk to one another, like

18:50

in my I'm going to own my stuff. I want you to

18:52

do the same. I'm going to confess to

18:54

you what I know of

18:56

our situation, and I'm going to ask you

18:58

to contain it. Just contain it, because

19:00

I'm going to talk about me, not you. And I want you

19:02

to do the same, and I want to contain what you say.

19:04

So let's establish how this is

19:06

super important in marriage. How are

19:08

we going to talk to one another? How are

19:10

we going to do it? And if we're going to do it in a way,

19:13

I may say some things that you feel hurt about,

19:15

but I'm going to be super careful to not harm

19:17

you. Now, I'm going to do that by

19:19

containing what you say and asking you to

19:21

do the same.

19:22

Oh, Bill.

19:23

Herndon with us. So good. Maybe you've got a question

19:25

or comment 800 555 7898.

19:28

That's (800) 555-7898.

19:33

To connect with Phil, you can check out

19:35

the website Tin Man Ministries

19:37

dot org. And you're certainly

19:39

welcome to do that. As we continue talking with

19:41

Phil Herndon this morning of River

19:44

Tree and Tin Man Ministries, Tin Man ministries.org.

19:46

So Phil, we've talked a lot

19:48

about having a healthy self-image, how that comes

19:51

from God. But I want to spend

19:53

the last few minutes, if we can, talking a little bit about

19:55

the way that we then view

19:57

God when our self-image is

20:00

askew and we have such

20:02

a messed up, uh, image or

20:04

picture of ourselves, how

20:07

does that typically impact

20:09

or influence the way in which we see

20:11

and then interact and believe

20:14

things about God?

20:15

Steve, the answer to that question honestly,

20:17

and the answer to that question, I think, unlocks

20:20

so much to at least begin

20:22

the journey, what we're talking about to healthy identity.

20:24

And there's a story. It's a parable.

20:26

And so, you know, the bigger Luke 15,

20:29

the prodigal son. And, you know, the bigger message,

20:31

of course, is to legalism. And the older brother,

20:34

when we do a character study of the

20:36

main players in Jesus's story,

20:38

this prodigal son, there's a turning point

20:41

in the story. We know what that is. He's

20:43

here's this nice Jewish boy in a pigsty,

20:45

you know, that doesn't go together at all. And it

20:47

says he came to himself.

20:50

He had knowledge about himself.

20:52

He had an image of himself. And

20:54

he woke up and said, this

20:56

is not me at all. I am not made

20:59

for this. And so we

21:01

have a knowledge of self and an image of self. We

21:03

also have a knowledge of God in an image of God.

21:05

And so we find out what his image is. He came

21:08

to himself through great pain, which is almost always

21:10

how we come to ourselves in great pain.

21:12

And when he woke up, he began to.

21:15

He knew his. He knew where his dad lived.

21:17

He knew his dad had the money. He knew

21:19

he knew all these things about his dad. But

21:21

look at what his image was. His

21:24

image was, I can become one of his servants.

21:26

I can work my way back into his good graces.

21:28

I can I can appease him somehow,

21:30

like a Roman panoply of gods, and get

21:33

back into my rightful place someday. Maybe.

21:35

And so he goes with the knowledge

21:38

of self and the image of self. He also

21:40

goes with his knowledge of dad and his image of

21:42

dad. And what he failed to do

21:44

was he recognized how he viewed

21:46

dad. He did not recognize how dad viewed him.

21:49

And that's where dad set that straight

21:51

in me. This patriarch, running with his cloak

21:53

pulled up and legs showing and

21:55

running for his son. And that story

21:58

again, we understand the punchline with the older

22:00

brother before the older older brother

22:02

shows back up, we have this amazing picture

22:04

of how that delta got shortened

22:07

between the two. He, his

22:09

knowledge, and his image of himself being covered

22:11

with kisses as the Greek renders

22:14

that being covered with kisses and

22:16

recognizing that his dad was coming to meet

22:18

him, much like the garden, by the way,

22:20

God pursuing that a dad was

22:22

coming after him to say, let

22:24

me close this delta, this difference

22:26

between how you viewed me and

22:29

how I view you. That's what you missed.

22:31

You missed how I view you.

22:33

And that's how we can be anchored into our own identities.

22:35

And using that story.

22:36

Oftentimes we hear the truth

22:39

and then we go back to, well,

22:41

but this in my story or that

22:43

or the other person, and we get

22:45

our eyes back on the situation, the

22:48

hurt, the turmoil, how do we practice

22:51

who God truly is

22:53

and how God sees us as

22:55

his created kid, his redeemed

22:57

kid? If we're in relationship with him.

22:59

Pay attention to. Just imagine

23:01

when you're reading scripture. Imagine that

23:04

you're looking through a filter, a

23:06

glass, and, you know,

23:08

Paul says, we look through a glass darkly

23:10

now, same concept.

23:12

And what again, back to the

23:14

church, back to the body of Christ.

23:16

I'm paying attention to what brothers and sisters

23:18

in Christ tell me about me. Tell

23:20

me about them, and tell me about God.

23:23

And notice when you're reading in the morning

23:25

or the evening, whenever you read the filter,

23:27

you're looking through. If I'm looking at that

23:29

story at Luke 15, through the filter of

23:31

someone who has to make penance or

23:33

whatever I will miss, I will look,

23:35

I will look at a distance at that story and go, yeah,

23:38

that's a great story Jesus told to

23:40

people. But I mean, really and truly,

23:42

would he come running after me like

23:44

that? And when I'm in relationship and I'm

23:46

with other people and they say, yeah,

23:49

because I'm running after you. And so

23:51

if I have a person running after me, pursuing

23:54

me, desiring to know me, forgive

23:56

me and confront me with

23:58

what's going on, then that changes

24:00

those neural pathways we talked about. And my

24:02

filter changes even how I read his word.

24:04

And it's no longer just data.

24:06

Hmm'hmm for the person who says,

24:09

Phil, that sounds good, but I

24:11

don't have somebody in my life like that. I

24:13

don't know how to begin to put this into practice. Or

24:15

maybe I have people in my life, but when I've

24:18

tried to share my story with

24:20

them, it has not gone well.

24:22

I've been shut down. They've not received it,

24:25

um, in a healthy way. You

24:27

just keep trying because at

24:30

some point I'm tempted to say I'm

24:32

scared to keep putting myself back out there. Mhm.

24:35

That's one of the saddest statements,

24:37

Steve, that I think it's true in the church

24:40

today. The church universal. Um,

24:42

is that what in the world. We're having

24:44

a lot of people. I hear it probably

24:46

every day. What you just said like I'm

24:49

so lonely and where do I

24:51

find these people. And I say that you,

24:53

you start somewhere.

24:56

Um, issuing. I used to tell guys when we

24:58

were. We were in treatment, doing treatment together.

25:00

I would say everything I say to you is going

25:02

to be an invitation. And I really want

25:04

you to say yes to the invitation. I'm afraid you're

25:06

going to say no, but I want it. And

25:08

it's amazing to me. I do a lot of men's ministry.

25:11

It's amazing to me, these guys that come in and they

25:13

don't know a feeling from third base at first.

25:15

Yeah, but like they get when when someone

25:18

issues them an invitation. Can

25:20

we just sit down and

25:22

talk about something like just share our

25:24

stories and just starting

25:26

somewhere? Sometimes we have this grand vision

25:29

that I'm going to sit down at Panera Bread

25:31

or somewhere with my friend, and we're going to immediately

25:34

be off into this territory of,

25:36

you know, angst and pathos is

25:38

like, just start with a cup of coffee

25:40

saying, come what we said earlier,

25:42

can we start talking about some things

25:44

on a deeper level than just the surface and

25:46

just issue the invitation? Sometimes it's

25:48

far simpler than we think.

25:50

Far simpler than we think, and yet takes

25:53

practice.

25:53

And it's.

25:54

Scary. It is.

25:55

Scary. And I most

25:57

people will deactivate right there. I

25:59

am just not going to trust my story.

26:02

But I would argue that's where

26:04

there are people like you that

26:06

can hear the story and definitely

26:08

be a safe place. So I would even think

26:10

if we keep hitting a wall with other people,

26:13

as far as friends that were

26:15

taking that risk with and that

26:17

hasn't worked out for us, find a godly

26:20

yes counselor and start

26:22

the story there. That's going

26:24

to be helpful to the Lord

26:26

in that he created us

26:29

again for community. It

26:31

may be I don't want to call it manufacturing. It may

26:33

be convenient community because

26:35

there may be a cost involved or something.

26:38

And yet, how badly do we want that

26:40

fellowship with the Lord? Do we need to be

26:42

restored to him? I

26:44

just yeah, is that a

26:46

what do they call that? Uh, what's

26:49

the question that you already know that the

26:51

implied answer.

26:52

There it is. Is that a.

26:53

Rhetorical? Because I do

26:56

think even within the church, like, we're

26:58

so not willing to

27:00

risk because we have

27:03

an excuse for why? I mean, I'm

27:05

I'm a poster kid for that. Yeah. 3 or 4

27:07

years ago, if you would have said that to me, I'd have been like,

27:09

nah. And now

27:12

I'm grateful because the Lord has used

27:14

it in my life to bring healing

27:17

an image of him that is biblical.

27:19

And I'm going to go to that instead of

27:22

looking in the mirror.

27:23

And I'll tell you with a few seconds we have left that

27:25

if you just read the book of Nehemiah,

27:27

how he rebuilt that

27:29

wall really slowly,

27:31

really prayerfully, a little bit at a

27:33

time, and they finished it in, in

27:35

time, you know, they hadn't had before.

27:38

But that's a great picture of that. Like, check it

27:40

out, start small, but start

27:42

somewhere.

27:42

Start somewhere. Beautiful challenge

27:45

to our day. And Phil Herndon

27:47

has brought it once again, grateful for

27:49

his friendship and the knowledge God

27:51

has given him. Certainly we're glad

27:53

you're here. It's Don and Steve in the morning.