0:03

Hello and welcome

0:04

to Deerhike and John. Or

0:07

as I prefer to think of the dear John and Hank.

0:09

It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions,

0:11

give you TV's advice and ring you all the week's news from

0:13

both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John,

0:16

Thanksgiving was fairly

0:18

recent. If you thought

0:20

your turkey was expensive, we'll just

0:22

wait till you find out that Elon Musk paid forty

0:24

four billion dollars for his

0:28

I I just I tweeted

0:31

that. I tweeted that and then I deleted it forty

0:33

four seconds later. That is the

0:35

that that is the best feeling. It's the only way

0:37

to use Twitter in twenty twenty two is

0:40

to share share as a people with notifications

0:42

on. Right. Exactly. It's only for

0:44

the thousand people who look down at

0:46

their phone in that moment. Yep.

0:48

Hank I really appreciate that you

0:51

frontloaded some Twitter content because

0:53

lately I've been concerned that the

0:55

three or four minutes of the podcast we

0:57

spend before you mentioned Twitter, are

1:00

three or four minutes where you're not really engaged

1:02

because you're waiting for the topic

1:04

to your

1:05

I can't look at Twitter. while

1:07

we're doing the podcast ever again

1:09

or at least right now because I've I may I put

1:12

an app on my computer that doesn't let me.

1:14

look at Twitter, and I'm

1:16

so

1:17

proud of you. As somebody who made not

1:20

being on Twitter their entire personality

1:22

for two and a half years. Yeah. I'm really

1:24

excited for it to be your

1:26

entire personality for the next two

1:28

and a half years. And was that said,

1:30

We're talking a big game about how Hank's not

1:33

on Twitter yada yada yada, but I can't

1:35

help but notice that as we're recording this,

1:37

Hank didn't tweet one hour ago.

1:39

So What I tweet. don't remember.

1:41

It hasn't been that long. Oh,

1:43

I know. It was like a customer support

1:45

thing for the awesome socks club. Okay.

1:48

I think it's great. That was part of my job.

1:50

There there are still things that I must tweet.

1:53

Yes. Well,

1:55

and maybe that's maybe that's the way that it's gonna

1:57

be moving forward. Maybe someone will tweet on

1:59

our behalf or, like, who

2:01

knows? The point is that

2:04

I'm really excited for your

2:06

personality to become I'm actually

2:08

not on Twitter. Well, I just

2:10

wanna be Look,

2:12

I wanna be less on Twitter. I got a lot

2:14

of here's what somebody recently said to me.

2:16

Do you think it's a slam dunk?

2:18

Because you got a lot of things that you're demands

2:21

for your time. You gotta run a couple companies.

2:23

You gotta sell socks. You gotta you

2:25

gotta a lot of So coffee. Don't forget

2:27

to sell coffee. actually, We're actually not

2:29

selling socks right now, but we are selling

2:31

coffee at awesome coffee club dot com. It's

2:33

so good. It's good coffee. My

2:35

father-in-law has it. And so I

2:38

it has caffeine in it, so I don't brew it at home.

2:40

We don't have decaf yet. We're working on it. It's surprisingly

2:42

complicated to make decaf. But I was over

2:44

at my my in laws house and

2:46

he has a subscription. And I

2:49

just, you know, I just had a half a cup. I

2:51

was, oh my gosh, it's really good

2:53

coffee. I am. It tastes so good.

2:55

It's the rest. It makes me very happy. Such good

2:57

coffee. Yeah. I know. It's really special.

3:00

Hello, everybody who kept just

3:02

hitting the fast forward thirty second

3:04

button until John and Hank were done talking about

3:06

Twitter. Today, we'd like to answer some questions from

3:08

our listeners. There

3:10

are so many good ones, and I've got

3:12

some amazing answers for

3:14

you. Let's begin with this question from Chloe

3:17

who writes Dear John and Hank, if people who

3:19

are under eighteen years old are called minors,

3:21

why aren't people who are over years

3:24

old called majors.

3:28

Decentered from Ryan's Chloe,

3:31

PS. Don't worry about pronouncing the accent,

3:33

John. Oh, alright. We'll just say Chloe

3:35

then.

3:40

It's really good. You

3:42

gotta love somebody who really anticipates the

3:44

needs. Yeah. So

3:48

John, do you know why? Why

3:50

people over the age of eighteen are not called majors?

3:52

Because they're called adults? They

3:54

are called majors. Oh. It's

3:57

it would be perfectly accurate to call the

3:59

majors. Whoa.

3:59

And in fact,

4:01

the eighteen in America is,

4:04

the age of majority. Oh,

4:06

yes, all that. That's when you become a major.

4:08

The majorization of a human is

4:10

on your eighteenth birthday. So

4:12

do you wanna go deeper into why? Or do

4:15

you just wanna guess? because I know why.

4:17

I don't wanna go deeper into why, but I do

4:19

wanna just briefly say that this means

4:21

that there's a characteristic or in Catch

4:23

twenty two who's, of course, a major

4:25

in the army or the Air Force,

4:27

whatever it is. In Catch twenty

4:29

two, the one of the great American

4:31

World War two novels. And the

4:34

major's name, his

4:36

his surname is Major, and then

4:38

his first name is Major because his

4:40

father who was a major in the Air

4:42

Force wanted to name a major

4:44

major, and then he became Major. So he's major,

4:46

major, But it turns out that he's

4:48

actually major major

4:50

major major major, which

4:52

is -- Mhmm. -- because he's over eighteen.

4:54

Exactly.

4:56

That's that's great news. The s this

4:58

episode is titled major major major

5:00

major major. Almost

5:03

certainly. It's already happened.

5:05

We've hit the title. You could turn

5:07

it off now. I So

5:11

So these are the it's the same word with two

5:13

different definitions, and they they have the

5:15

same root source, which

5:19

is Latin or whatever or something.

5:21

Yeah. And and then they became two

5:23

different words, and and and then they ended

5:25

up with two different, you know, definitions.

5:28

And the reason why is

5:30

because like, in

5:32

ancient times, I'm not gonna get super

5:34

specific because I forgot all the stuff that I

5:36

read. Okay. Maybe an ancient Greece

5:38

or Rome. it would

5:40

be like you put major

5:43

on the end if you were the father of the

5:45

person who had the same name as you.

5:47

who was the minor. Mhmm. So it's like

5:49

the lesser or the smaller. Right.

5:51

Literally, like, this is, you

5:53

know, Julius the smaller.

5:55

So you'd be, like, Julius minor

5:58

would be your name. And and

6:00

that became, like, the childhood name

6:02

and then as you got older and you had a kid

6:04

and your dad was dead or whatever,

6:06

you'd be the major and they'd be the minor.

6:08

And that just eventually came to mean

6:10

adult and child. So

6:12

it was almost like you could journey from

6:14

being a junior to a senior.

6:17

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. We

6:19

all, like, Like, we have a we have

6:21

a family member whose name is Little

6:23

Mike. Oh, Mike. because he was the he

6:25

was the little a littler of the mics no

6:27

mic isn't little mic anymore. Oh, he's like fifty

6:29

two years old. I don't

6:31

think we call him little mic anymore. No.

6:33

but I still think of him.

6:35

I kind of think of him as little mike sometimes.

6:37

Yeah.

6:38

When I see when I see him, that's the sort of the

6:40

first thing that comes to mind. Yeah.

6:42

that shouldn't call him that, but

6:44

still in Yeah. Great guy. He

6:46

is great. I love what I'm like. This next question

6:48

comes from Caroline who asks This

6:51

question was inspired by a recent YouTube short of

6:53

Hank about Marie Currie's notebooks, Dear Hank and

6:55

John. How do regular

6:57

items when irradiated to become radioactive?

6:59

Can you wash the radio activity

7:02

back out of a previously safe

7:04

object? Or is it part of the atoms

7:06

now? I understand the basics of like atoms

7:08

to kaying and letting off radiation, but

7:10

something like a piece of clothing isn't made

7:12

of anything. I'll

7:14

I'll explain it. It's not made of anything

7:16

inherently dangerous, so how can radiation

7:19

begin emanating from it after it

7:21

is exposed, pumpkins and penguins

7:23

Caroline. Okay. So I have a ton of

7:25

different things here. Yeah. The first thing I

7:27

need to know and I have wanted to know this

7:29

for a long time. So I'm excited is

7:32

-- Yeah.

7:33

what exactly is radioactivity?

7:40

So

7:42

radiation -- Yeah. -- is any

7:45

energy that is

7:47

emanating from a

7:48

a substance. Okay.

7:51

And that is a problem because

7:54

we are currently in

7:56

that sense radioactive. Like radiation

7:59

is emanating from us. It's in the infer it's

8:01

photons in the infrared wavelength. And

8:03

and so in that sense, are we radioactive?

8:06

no. So so

8:08

there are basically

8:10

two kinds of radiation. There's

8:13

the kind that's made of photons and so it has

8:15

no mass but it has energy.

8:17

And then there's the kind that's made of particles

8:19

that do have mass and energy.

8:22

And photon radiation can be

8:24

dangerous if it's high energy enough,

8:27

whereas radiation that is made of particles

8:29

because it has mass is go and

8:31

it's going very fast is more

8:33

dangerous. So there are two different kinds of

8:35

things. We use the same word for them and I don't

8:37

like that, but there we are. Okay. So

8:39

I wanna repeat back to you what you

8:41

said to make sure that I understand it.

8:43

Mhmm. Radiation is

8:46

just like energy coming out of

8:48

anything. but

8:50

the

8:50

radiation that we worry

8:52

about has mass.

8:55

And then somehow it, like, penetrates

8:57

your skin

8:58

Well, look, is it the both

9:01

both can be bad. One

9:03

though is always bad. And

9:05

one is oftentimes just like the color

9:07

green. Oh. So

9:09

so you you don't have to worry too much about it

9:11

unless it's like up in the x rays. when

9:13

it starts to become ionizing where

9:15

I can actually have enough

9:18

energy to change something

9:20

chemically. And

9:22

but but these these particles of

9:24

radiation, they're actually like, you know,

9:26

neutrons or helium

9:28

nuclei or something like that, which is just you

9:30

know, but it's it's another scale of

9:32

thing. But but

9:34

when something is irradiated, that

9:36

doesn't mean that it's turned into something

9:39

radioactive. So

9:41

so you can like shine

9:43

ultraviolet light at something that's gonna kill all the

9:45

bacteria, but it didn't turn

9:47

that substance radioactive. What

9:49

is happening with Marie Currie's clothes

9:51

and notebooks is that there was a

9:53

bunch of radioactive stuff around

9:56

and those radioactive atoms

9:58

are now in those things. They're just like

10:00

the way that dust gets

10:02

on stuff. So there's just atoms

10:04

of the stuff she was studying

10:06

that is on those things. So that doesn't mean

10:08

that it's hard to clean off. Yeah. It

10:10

could be cleaned, but they we would

10:12

destroy it in the process, which you don't wanna do because

10:14

it's her notebooks and it's a story. Right.

10:16

Right. Right. And also, like,

10:18

whatever you cleaned it off with would then

10:20

become radioactive waste. As well,

10:22

probably a higher volume of it. You'd have to diluted

10:24

a lot before it wasn't dangerous. So

10:27

it's probably better to keep it all in one

10:29

place anyway.

10:30

Okay. Interesting. But

10:32

there is another thing that can happen where if you hit something

10:34

with a high energy neutron, you can

10:36

actually change it atomically and

10:38

make the existing thing

10:41

into a radioactive element.

10:43

You can, like, add a neutron to it and

10:45

that's gonna, like, make

10:47

the nucleus unstable and that will

10:49

cause it to decay and then emit

10:51

some radiation. So that's

10:53

what we are talking about when we call

10:55

something radioactive. It's that the nucleus

10:57

of the atom itself is

10:59

unstable and will decay and

11:01

emit radiation of various kinds,

11:03

whereas something that emits

11:06

electromagnetic radiation and the infrared. Like, we don't

11:08

call that radioactive even though it's emitting radiation.

11:10

So those are like the three different

11:13

things. There's like a radiation which

11:16

can, like, you know,

11:18

have damaging

11:20

radiation or not and does

11:22

not cause something to become radioactive.

11:24

There's being contaminated

11:26

with radioactive nuclei of various

11:28

sorts because you're around them, and then

11:30

there's actually creating radioactive

11:32

nuclei through the emission of

11:34

high energy neutrons or something like

11:36

that.

11:37

Okay. I'm just gonna try to avoid

11:40

all of it and remain as stable as

11:42

I can for as long as I can. Well,

11:44

you can't avoid being hit

11:46

with radiation because you would otherwise

11:48

freeze. Okay.

11:51

Cool. Thanks for that. That's

11:53

not helpful. Lots

11:55

of things are true, but not

11:57

helpful. there's

11:58

a really weird experiment that you can

12:00

do because the

12:02

earth is constantly radiating a little bit

12:04

of infrared light, and and this is happening

12:07

from your and so it those things are

12:09

keeping you warmer. If you go outside

12:11

on a clear, cloudless night and you look

12:13

up your face, the top of your

12:15

face will feel colder than the rest

12:17

of your body because

12:19

there's no infrared radiation coming

12:21

from above. And if you put an

12:23

umbrella over you, you

12:25

will feel like, it

12:27

feels like there's cold radiating from

12:29

space onto you. And if you put an umbrella

12:31

over you, it will feel like you're stopping

12:33

the cold from hitting you. But

12:35

what is in fact happening is the

12:37

umbrella will be radiating some

12:39

because it has warmth. We'll be

12:41

radiating some infrared radiation down

12:43

toward you. then and it's noticeably

12:45

warming your face.

12:47

Wow. So if you're ever

12:50

self from hypothermia, and

12:52

you have no clothes, but you do have an

12:55

umbrella. You do have

12:57

a very little amount. It'll

12:59

buy you, like, four seconds. This next

13:01

question comes from Natalia. Right?

13:03

Dear John and Hank, why is the skin on our

13:05

body different depending on where it

13:07

is. Like, why is lip skin so

13:09

different from face skin? That's

13:11

a great question, Natalia. And

13:13

I have It's no idea.

13:16

Like, why is the science day

13:18

here on Direk, good job? You're making

13:20

more after this? This is the last science

13:22

question. I'm just announcing it right

13:24

now. We're moving on to

13:26

hard humanities after

13:28

this. I'm gonna

13:30

ask Hank questions about religion. Oh,

13:32

I'm gonna do great on that. And

13:35

I don't know. I know

13:37

nothing. John, please help. No.

13:39

I'm really grateful to have these science

13:41

questions because just a

13:43

little peek behind the curtain. It's

13:45

it's week two of of

13:47

of our three week experiment,

13:49

and John is most the Ed

13:51

McMan of this podcast because there are certain

13:53

events happening inside of

13:55

his television that demand

13:57

percentage of his attention. Well, here's

13:59

another

13:59

here's another one, John. So

14:02

there's two ways there's two ways for me to answer this

14:04

question. There's what what, like,

14:06

physically makes the skin different.

14:08

Yeah. And then there's, like, why is it

14:10

different? Like, how is it how does

14:12

the body construct itself in this

14:14

way? Yeah. The first one is, like,

14:16

we know the anatomy really

14:18

clearly of, like, you know,

14:20

palm skin is thicker. It has

14:22

more fatty and connective tissue. It

14:24

has, like, that padding -- Mhmm.

14:26

-- underarm skin has, like, a certain

14:28

structure, like, a higher density of sweat

14:30

glands. Mhmm. And then

14:32

you've got, like, lip skin, which

14:35

maybe is full

14:37

of blood vessels for

14:39

signaling to other people,

14:41

then, like, this is lips and you have to, like, read

14:43

lips and so you wanna be able to see them more

14:46

clearly. There's also, like, maybe a sexual

14:48

selection thing going on there. And

14:50

then there's like there's like skin that

14:52

grows different lengths and amounts of

14:54

hair. Mhmm. And we know we,

14:56

like, have all this stuff pretty cataloged. We

14:59

we know about it. As for how the

15:01

body decides to build itself.

15:03

We have a we have some we

15:06

have some basic understanding of

15:08

how that works, but it's

15:11

quite complex. and we are still in the

15:13

process of figuring that

15:15

all out. But basically, like, lip

15:17

skin is is is is

15:19

able to be different from face skin and

15:21

your butt skin is able to be different from your foot

15:23

skin because of

15:25

the same reason that your nose is

15:27

your nose and your toe nails or your toe

15:29

nails and you don't hair inside of your

15:31

liver. Like, your body knows,

15:33

like, has systems for planning

15:35

the body. Well, it was a

15:37

complicated system Yeah. And you can

15:39

research Hox genes, H0X if you

15:41

want to learn more about it. But we

15:43

are on the path to understanding

15:45

this, and we are certainly I

15:47

don't think the majority of the way down

15:49

the path. I

15:50

don't like to criticize the body because I

15:52

think in general, it does a fairly good

15:54

job like not like literally nothing has

15:56

ever created or

15:58

sustained consciousness except for biology. So

16:00

it's a little hard, I think, to

16:02

be I can't be too too To

16:04

be too negative. Like, biology, I think you

16:07

need to remember, like you know,

16:08

I mean, biology with

16:11

with

16:11

essentially a limited

16:13

number of tools figured out a way to

16:15

go from really

16:17

boring bacteria

16:20

Yeah. To really interesting

16:23

humans. So I don't like to be critical of biology.

16:26

That said, whatever is going

16:28

on with lip skin, it is a

16:30

catastrophe. Like, it's so obviously

16:32

a disaster. And it's amazing

16:34

to me that people can be like, oh,

16:36

we are in our, like, final

16:38

completed form. How can that

16:40

be if I

16:42

need to apply chapstick to my

16:44

lips seven hundred times

16:46

a day? Like, how can this be like

16:48

a a perfect glorious

16:50

clockworks if it needs

16:53

constant moisturization?

16:56

Yeah. It's it's I think it's

16:58

tricky to build these sort of

17:00

transition zones from

17:02

from inside to outside. You know what, Hank?

17:04

I don't wanna III don't want you

17:06

to tell me all the reasons why

17:09

biology had a hard time

17:11

making my lip skin not suck. I just I

17:13

just want you to say the truth which is

17:15

that biology could have and should

17:17

have done better. Well,

17:18

but this is this is what I was

17:20

gonna say. It seems like there are lots of

17:22

animals who don't have this problem. And

17:25

I think that maybe it

17:27

was our own doing

17:29

that we selected this

17:31

trait. having thin,

17:34

you know, more

17:36

colorful lips, either because it was

17:38

helpful for communication to be able to

17:40

read lips or because we just thought

17:42

they looked good -- Mhmm. -- so we

17:44

selected mates with worse lips

17:46

-- Mhmm. -- like functionally worse

17:48

lips. Oh, so you're saying that

17:50

that wear to

17:50

blame. Yeah.

17:53

You're not blaming. You say

17:55

biology isn't the problem.

17:58

dumb humans

17:59

thinking that useless things are

18:02

beautiful is the problem. And

18:04

now

18:04

and this isn't even a human thing either.

18:06

this happens all the time. Where you like

18:09

like, sexual selection ends up

18:11

creating just ridiculously useless

18:13

-- Yeah. -- actually detrimental traits.

18:16

Right. Yeah. like the male

18:18

peacock being the prime example. I

18:20

That's a ridiculous thing. Yeah.

18:22

They're ridiculous. They're lovely, but ridiculous.

18:25

I

18:25

think this is great, and I appreciate

18:28

it very much. And

18:30

I also think it's a great transition

18:32

away from science toward the humanities

18:34

because now we're talking about this strange

18:36

choices humans make

18:39

and how we find

18:41

meaning together, which brings

18:43

me Hank to this question

18:45

from anonymous. Who writes, Dear

18:47

John and Hank, in episode two hundred and twenty

18:49

seven, John brought up Retin Link's Deacon episodes

18:51

about religion, and John mentioned that Hank is

18:53

on a journey of meaning. Can you

18:55

expand upon that? Can

18:59

you hank expand upon that? Can do

19:01

you mentioned that I was in a journey

19:04

on a journey of meaning? That sounds like it's

19:06

for you. No. It sounds like it's for

19:08

you to figure out. I more think that it's

19:10

more for you to

19:12

acknowledge and acknowledge. I don't know what you

19:14

meant. Your journey of meaning.

19:16

Okay. Here's what I meant. Hi. What did you mean?

19:18

And maybe I can maybe I can chime in

19:20

because oftentimes I have no idea what

19:22

people are talking about. Hank,

19:24

when it comes to philosophy. I think Hank,

19:26

you have been on a journey of meaning in

19:28

the sense that you are

19:31

interested in trying to find

19:34

ways that in the secular

19:36

world with secular

19:38

belief systems and and worldviews

19:41

we can still make meaning together, still

19:43

take advantage of the benefits of

19:45

ritual together, still

19:47

find ways to have

19:49

the kind of connective tissue

19:53

parts of religious communities.

19:55

And then

19:56

the

19:57

I also think that you're a little bit on a journey of

19:59

meaning in the

19:59

sense that you're trying to

20:02

understand whether or

20:04

not meaning

20:04

is something that we entirely

20:07

make up together or whether or not there is

20:09

some larger thing to be derived,

20:12

some larger sense of meaning to

20:14

be derived. Yeah. So from

20:15

where I sit, humans weren't

20:18

created, they happened. And

20:21

and so if if if

20:23

something was created. It was created for

20:25

a purpose. If something happened, it it

20:27

just happened. And so it doesn't have

20:29

a an

20:32

innate reason to be or

20:34

reason why it was made. Right. And I I

20:36

that is how I feel. That is what I think about

20:38

people. That's This is, you know, where evidence

20:40

has pointed me. Yeah. This is

20:42

one of the main

20:43

disagreements between Hank

20:46

and me and our

20:47

worldviews, but it's not

20:50

super important. Like,

20:53

I

20:53

will often say in our conversations, well, we

20:55

weren't made to or we weren't made

20:58

for, and Hank will be like,

21:00

no, we weren't made

21:02

two or four anything. Like,

21:05

that's just the wrong way

21:07

to think about it. You know? Like,

21:09

and And and I'll be like, well, I

21:11

think we were made to and

21:13

or four, but it doesn't

21:15

really matter if the end of the

21:17

sentence is the same. Like,

21:19

the -- Yeah. -- whether or not there is,

21:22

you know, the

21:24

two or the four is

21:25

not actually that important

21:27

to us. Right.

21:29

Well, we also I think I think that

21:31

we evolved

21:33

to do many particular things.

21:35

Right. Like, you know, our eyebrows

21:38

exist it seems

21:40

people thought thought for a while it was a sweat thing,

21:42

but it seems our eyebrows mostly exist

21:44

to signal how we to, like, have facial

21:46

expressions. So we were made to communicate. We

21:49

evolved to communicate. Right. That's for that's

21:51

very clear. Yeah. We you know, our tongues

21:53

are good at that. Our lips are good at that. Our brains are good

21:55

at that. So but

21:58

but I don't think that just because

22:00

we evolved to do certain

22:02

things means that those certain things are

22:04

inherently good or

22:06

the things that we should be doing.

22:08

Right. And and

22:10

so that's I often see people kind

22:12

of trying to make that argument that if people

22:15

to do certain behaviors,

22:17

then those behaviors are the

22:19

right behaviors and other behaviors are the

22:21

wrong behaviors, which I always think is definitely

22:24

wrong. Yeah. A

22:27

misunderstanding of of

22:29

things happening. But

22:32

I do like, I so

22:34

I'm I'm onboard now, I understand now,

22:36

and I am very interested

22:39

in. whether they're like,

22:41

you know, and I think that this is I

22:43

think it's probably all constructed But

22:46

I think that you can construct it in

22:49

really sturdy ways.

22:51

Mhmm. So there there are

22:53

there are sturdy stable ways of

22:55

constructing meaning, and there

22:57

are really janky tumble

22:59

down ways of constructing meaning. Right. And

23:01

I'm interested in sturdy ones.

23:03

and I'm interested in and I'm interested in

23:05

in in whether or not

23:07

the sturdy ones have something

23:10

interesting to say about

23:12

what it is to be a person

23:14

and about the value

23:17

of people specifically life

23:19

less specifically and the universe even

23:22

less specifically. Mhmm. And I think that

23:24

there is value in

23:26

an empty universe in

23:29

a universe without life. I

23:31

think that there is value in that

23:33

just existing. And I think that there

23:35

is more value in a in a universe with

23:38

life. And I think that there is more value in a universe with people.

23:41

And whatever reform those people

23:43

take, you know, complex

23:46

multi cellular or or, you

23:48

know, communicating knowledge

23:50

storing -- Right. --

23:52

chemical systems. And I

23:56

And and and I think

23:58

that there are sturdy ways to build that, and I think

23:59

the philosophers work and

24:02

think really a lot about that.

24:04

But I also sort of, like, am am on

24:06

my own trying to

24:08

think through that a lot. And I love doing that.

24:10

I think it's interesting. And I also like,

24:13

The the places where it tends to lead me feel good

24:15

and feel right -- Mhmm. --

24:17

and also make me feel like we're not,

24:20

like a waste of energy

24:22

--

24:22

Mhmm. -- and resources and, you

24:24

know, that that the harm that we

24:26

have done is not

24:29

is not met by no

24:31

good. It is met by an equal or greater

24:33

amount of good. Howard Bauchner:

24:35

Right. So I

24:37

think just to back up a little bit,

24:39

when you say you think it's

24:42

probably all constructed. You mean, like,

24:44

all meaning, all --

24:46

Yeah. -- sense of, like, meaning separate

24:48

from you know,

24:49

just as you say, like, the value that

24:51

is in the universe because it is a universe.

24:53

I think even that, I think even the

24:55

the value that is in the universe is

24:57

constructed. Like, I can imagine a universe

25:00

without life or people. Right. I think

25:02

that, like, I imagine that as more

25:04

valuable than nothing.

25:05

Right. Like, that seems right to me. Right.

25:08

But that's a construct. You're getting to get to the bottom

25:10

of one. is is, of course, very

25:12

complicated, but that's that's something that you're

25:14

constructing. That's not something that's, like, quote

25:16

unquote, really real or or

25:18

exists outside of the construction.

25:20

That's what

25:21

I saw. Lots of things

25:23

that are constructed are real. like,

25:25

tables -- Yeah. -- for example.

25:29

And all these words that

25:31

that are coming out of our mouth. Right.

25:33

Exactly. So, like, III

25:34

think this is where

25:36

we are both really interested is,

25:39

yes, it is constructed.

25:42

but so are tables. And are are there tables

25:44

that can be really, really helpful?

25:47

And what I

25:49

feel is that there are a lot of

25:51

world lot of ways of making meaning

25:54

that are like having

25:56

an umbrella when

25:58

it is when it is

26:00

like drizzling outside. and

26:02

the meaning is the umbrella and you're like, oh,

26:04

this meaning is very helpful because it is drizzling

26:06

and I'm not getting wet and

26:08

I'm not uncomfortable. The problem with

26:10

a lot of those systems of

26:13

making meaning that our good

26:15

umbrellas is that when

26:17

there is a hurricane the

26:19

umbrellas completely stopped working. And and

26:22

can I, in fact, become counterproductive.

26:24

Right? Like, they can, like, invert

26:26

themselves And if you hold to them too

26:28

tightly, they can carry you straight

26:31

away. Right? So these --

26:33

Mhmm. -- these things that are

26:35

that are hopeful

26:36

worldviews or useful ways of

26:38

constructing meaning to deal

26:40

with sort of everyday distractions

26:42

can really fall apart

26:45

in the face of the big,

26:47

hard realities.

26:49

And you and I

26:50

are both really interested in

26:52

how to make meaning, how to make meaning in community

26:55

that can hold up to

26:57

that that work

26:58

in hurricanes, that work in

27:01

in the difficult things, the most difficult moments

27:03

that humans go through that work in the

27:05

edge cases. And and also

27:07

that tell you things that you don't

27:10

that don't

27:11

just tell you the thing that that you want

27:13

you

27:13

wanted to believe in the first place. Right. That don't

27:15

just confirm for you, that

27:17

the way that the way that is most convenient for you to live is

27:19

the best way to live.

27:22

Yeah. But it challenged

27:24

you in a in a loving non

27:27

shameful way. Right? Like so

27:29

much so much of the time when we're

27:31

challenged by ethical world views, it's

27:33

done as a way of, like, shaming

27:35

us or guilting us or or making people

27:38

feel bad about their humanity.

27:40

How do how could how

27:42

could you create those

27:45

challenges from a place

27:47

of love.

27:48

Mhmm.

27:50

So that's

27:52

Yeah. And and and the fact

27:54

that, like, Hank approaches those questions from

27:56

the perspective of, I

27:58

think, humans happened And

28:00

I approach those questions from the perspective of,

28:03

I'm not quite so sure that humans just

28:06

happened. Is

28:07

super unimportant.

28:09

Like, it's hard it's hard for

28:11

me to overstate how little I think about

28:13

that and how little I care about it. What

28:16

I care about is, like, can we find the

28:18

stuff? Right. because because the reality

28:21

is that, like, it doesn't provide any

28:23

special insight into like, if

28:25

humans were in some way created, we

28:27

don't know why. Right. Like,

28:29

we don't get special insight

28:31

into why. Right.

28:33

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

28:35

Because of because of that difference.

28:38

Mhmm. And I but I think that a lot of

28:40

people, like, their religion, provides

28:42

them what what they see. That's the exact

28:44

intent. Yes. No. That's exactly it.

28:46

That's exact that is it. That is

28:48

exactly it. That I don't feel

28:50

like having that knowledge

28:52

would provide me with special insight.

28:54

Whereas I do feel like, for

28:57

example, like, the question of

28:59

did

29:00

the universe come to be?

29:02

Continues to be interesting to me?

29:04

Because I

29:05

I feel like it might provide me with special

29:08

insight that I wouldn't get. Even if

29:10

you told me, like, even if God

29:12

appeared to me right now in in

29:14

my basement, Well, first off, I would be like

29:16

you're standing right in front of the

29:18

World Cup. God. So

29:21

you make a make a better door in a window

29:23

if you don't mind stepping

29:25

a little bit to the I'm trying to watch Portugal

29:27

play Uruguay. And then after

29:29

I said that, I I

29:31

would be like, I

29:35

don't know that it would provide me with

29:37

special insight to know that the God I believe

29:39

in is really real because

29:42

I'm much more interested like, what God

29:45

would

29:45

want for us

29:48

or of

29:48

us if if God were

29:51

really real. So, like, if God told

29:53

me that, I would be like, oh, that's

29:55

super helpful. Thank you. Yeah.

29:57

Yeah. It's like I made all

29:59

of this. and here's why.

30:01

But if God if God just appeared right

30:03

now and was like, I am, I would be

30:05

like, alright. Well, that's I mean,

30:07

thank you. can

30:08

I get some more? Yeah.

30:11

Yeah. Can I how many

30:13

questions do I get? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Is this like

30:15

a is this like a genie thing where I can make

30:17

three wishes? Can I ask three questions like,

30:19

what's the deal? Is this all I get? Is that I

30:21

am? I am is

30:23

helpful. It's good, but it's not I'm not sure that it

30:25

would give me special knowledge, and I think that's

30:27

exactly it. That's you nailed it. ambition

30:29

something like, omnichannel,

30:31

omnichannel powerful something was like,

30:34

you can you can get I can give you three

30:36

wishes or answer three questions. So

30:38

the three wishes will will always be

30:41

your will will come true,

30:43

and the three questions will definitely

30:45

be true. Mhmm. I'm

30:47

not sure which I'd pick. Oh, I think I'd ask

30:49

three questions. No. No.

30:52

Not if you thought about it for a minute.

30:54

Well, if everybody

30:57

believes me, like well,

30:59

yeah. Like, Matt Like, if I if if it

31:01

came with evidence of some kind,

31:06

This reminds me of my of one of

31:08

my favorite jokes, but it's like twenty minutes

31:11

long. I'm not sure if it's worth telling.

31:14

Definitely not. I think it probably is.

31:16

I I agree with you. I should

31:18

tell it. No.

31:21

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm pretty sure that

31:23

you should say I'd like three

31:25

wishes because the first wish could be

31:27

I would like to end poverty and disease among

31:30

humans. And that would be good. I feel

31:32

like you can't ask any question that's

31:34

gonna be as good as ending poverty

31:36

and disease.

31:37

Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I I could

31:40

also say, first wish, I'd I wish

31:42

to know the answer to these

31:44

three questions. but

31:46

that's good. Yeah.

31:48

And then and then and

31:50

then God would be like, hey, no no pedantic

31:52

BS. Okay? I I

31:55

don't Three questions. It's three wish It's not

31:57

a fun task master game,

31:59

Hank.

32:01

Yeah. It's

32:03

interesting. It's

32:04

an interesting thought anyway. It is. It reminds

32:06

me that this this brought podcast is brought

32:08

to you by John in

32:10

basement with God. Still

32:13

watching the world go. Step to the

32:15

left, please.

32:17

Also,

32:18

today's podcast is brought

32:20

to you by lip skin. Lip skin.

32:22

I need to moisturize mine right now

32:24

because it's been twelve minutes since I

32:26

last did it. This practice is also brought to you by major,

32:29

major, major, major. Yes.

32:31

Who is an adult named major, major,

32:33

who is also a major? That's right.

32:36

and this podcast is brought to you by a universe that

32:38

contains nothing, a universe that contains nothing

32:41

less valuable according to Hank

32:43

than a universe contains something, although he

32:46

realized that that value is constructed inside of

32:48

his head and not really real. Unless it

32:50

is really real, which is possible, he's

32:52

not positive. Is that

32:55

right? Did I get it? That's right.

32:56

You got every bit every bit.

32:58

Yeah. We also have

33:00

a project for us a message to read.

33:02

It's from Jessica to Hannah.

33:04

Dear little

33:05

sister, it's been four

33:07

months since you've left this world. I don't know what to say,

33:09

it just sucks. I know

33:11

I'll always hear your voice quoting our favorite shows

33:13

or laughing at a funny cat video

33:16

I would have shared with you. I'm so glad the universe picked

33:18

you to be my partner in crime growing

33:20

up. I don't know where I would be. If I

33:22

didn't have you to play laugh

33:25

fights, scheme, scream and navigate the world

33:27

with, I'll forever cherish the

33:29

memories. Thank you. I

33:31

miss you. grateful for

33:32

you, John. Yeah. Me

33:34

too. Me too. I think that's such

33:36

a good description

33:38

to play laugh,

33:41

fight, scheme, scheme, and navigate the

33:43

world with. And I'm so so

33:45

sorry for your loss, Jessica. Hank, I

33:46

would like to ask you this question from

33:49

Kalei. Who writes Dear John and Hank, how

33:51

long have artichokes been

33:53

around? I mean, I know they were

33:55

cultivated at some point, but like from what?

33:57

Something about them just seems very

33:59

old.

33:59

Pumkins and penguins, calliope. Now,

34:02

Hank, I think we should say for

34:04

our listeners what an artichoke

34:06

is or more precisely what an artichoke

34:08

was because I have not seen

34:10

an artichoke.

34:12

They're around? I mean, when

34:14

we were kids, our

34:16

parents

34:16

would make artichoke dip.

34:18

They did make artichoke a lot. I

34:21

really liked them. I think that's

34:23

why. I I did not like them, and I still

34:25

don't. I love them. But I remember you

34:27

liking them as a kid. And,

34:29

yeah, I don't

34:30

think I've seen it hard to joke since childhood.

34:32

So this is a food product if it looks vaguely pineapply.

34:36

Yeah. It looks a little like

34:37

a little like a pineapple, like

34:39

a green pineapple. or or a

34:41

little bit like a sort of

34:44

succulent that isn't a cactus, if

34:46

that makes any sense. Yeah. It's got

34:48

spines on the end of the leaves. There's a lot

34:50

of leaves mostly inedible, but you can eat the bottoms

34:52

of the leaves and then at the

34:54

end, there is a heart which is

34:56

the good part

34:58

and you stick it in some melted butter and -- Yeah. -- you yeah.

35:00

I mean -- Oh, good. -- I

35:02

wouldn't say so good. And I wouldn't say, oh, yeah. I

35:04

would say more along the lines of yeah.

35:08

Okay. Oh, man. I love it. Alright. I I look

35:10

at you. I have a very sophisticated palette. Not

35:12

like you. With your with your

35:14

silly little tongue -- Yeah. That's

35:18

dramatic and and my dehydrated lips.

35:20

Sorry to keep breaking them off, but

35:22

they're just it's it's present in my

35:24

life. red

35:26

lips. Yeah. Do we know when artichokes began to be

35:28

cultivated? And more

35:28

importantly, do we know why? Because it seems

35:31

to be that, like, looking at that plant, you

35:33

would never think, like, oh, I

35:35

bet this is I bet I can

35:37

get more calories off this thing than I'm gonna put in to try

35:40

to cultivate it. Well,

35:42

as far as how long art

35:43

it took have been

35:46

around around three point seven billion

35:48

years ago. Something

35:50

started to be alive. And

35:53

in a very real way -- Yeah. --

35:55

all currently living things are

35:58

that same thing.

35:59

Mhmm. So From that perspective, artichokes have been around for about three point

36:02

seven billion years, which is the same for

36:04

you and me and -- Oh. --

36:06

bananas -- Sure. -- and back over.

36:08

Yes. But and by the way,

36:10

it is very very weird

36:12

that all of that life came from

36:14

life except at

36:16

some point life must have come from non

36:18

life. That's weird. That's a weird

36:20

thing. It's very weird. It's

36:22

one of the big ones.

36:24

That one Alright. So

36:26

we're gonna make some meaning with that. But but

36:28

more importantly, when did

36:30

artichokes start being artichokes

36:33

and not protests?

36:35

So there

36:36

was they they are a

36:38

kind of thistle. So they're related to thistles,

36:40

which is wild, which you would never

36:42

look at a thistle and think

36:44

that should be in my mouth. Like, they're they're very dangerous

36:47

looking plant. And indeed,

36:50

they are very ancient. They're supposedly one of the

36:52

world's oldest

36:54

foods. They were first harvested by people in the Middle East. They

36:56

became popular in ancient Rome and

36:58

Greece. And there were

37:00

sort of like two wild

37:04

ish things that one of them we don't seem to have anymore.

37:06

And so we think that that one is the one that

37:08

turned into the modern artichoke. Mhmm. And

37:10

the other one still exists out in

37:13

the wild called Cardoon, and

37:15

you can still you people

37:18

did eat it then. And I think still may

37:20

eat it now. The plan of the elder

37:22

claimed that it could that cure

37:24

baldness, strengthen the stomach, freshen the

37:26

breath, and increase conception of

37:28

boys. Oh. And

37:30

there is there is also like

37:33

as it was cultivated it

37:35

continued to be cultivated in the Middle East. And when

37:37

it was brought to Europe in the

37:40

during the renaissance, apparently,

37:42

it was frowned upon because people thought it was very scandalous for some

37:44

reason. Oh. There was something

37:46

something about it

37:48

that seemed It does

37:49

seem It's a little it is a little scandalous. I

37:51

mean, there is something

37:55

sensual about it. I

37:57

guess, yeah, dispensing on how you

37:59

eat it. So Yeah. So,

38:01

yeah, that that but but I guess we

38:03

got over that, and

38:06

then I aided a bunch when I was

38:08

in elementary school for some

38:10

reason. Yeah. Alright. I mean, I

38:11

think that mom was

38:12

just excited to find a green thing I'd eat.

38:15

Yeah. But except that the part that you eat isn't

38:17

really that green. It's more sort of like

38:20

whitish yellow. No.

38:22

Definitely not. actual no

38:24

fiber. I don't know how, like, what it's made

38:26

of, but it's it

38:28

tastes like it's made of like,

38:30

you know, avocado stuff. Like, it's -- Yeah. --

38:33

fatty. It's soft, warm.

38:35

That's how I would describe

38:37

it is as it it's a bit of a

38:39

crap avocado. And

38:40

in ninety thousand studies, art

38:43

of jokes anymore because if we we

38:45

got off avocado. In nineteen eighties, Florida --

38:47

Better. -- there literally was

38:49

no avocado. And so

38:51

we had to eat

38:53

artichoke. and now we don't have to because there are

38:56

avocados. Yeah. So

38:58

people say progress isn't real, but

39:01

Those people did not grow up in Orlando, Florida

39:03

in the mid nineteen eighties. This

39:05

next question comes from Tiffany who writes Dear

39:07

John and Hank, longtime listener of the pod.

39:09

My partner has just started watching crash course in

39:11

the last month and was wondering what the heck

39:13

is up with Bernice or I

39:16

think Bernice rhymes

39:18

with Bernice. he asked me if it was a reference to something because you guys

39:20

both managed to weasel references in just

39:22

about everywhere and I can't find

39:24

anything. So who the f

39:26

is Bernice not the singer, just

39:28

her namesake Tiffany.

39:30

I don't know. You don't remember.

39:32

Yeah. Okay. So I don't remember.

39:35

Alright. So We had an

39:37

ant, and uh-huh, or I

39:39

don't she wasn't an ant.

39:41

She was our grandmother's cousin, whatever that

39:43

is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is something familiar. And

39:45

her name was Bernice.

39:48

It it was spelled Bernice, but

39:49

it was spoken burness

39:52

rhymes with furnace. And in fact, when she would introduce herself,

39:55

she would say it's burness

39:57

rhymes with furnace.

40:00

and she

40:00

lived in rural Tennessee and

40:02

was a

40:04

fascinating character, a a

40:07

great pository of stories about our

40:10

grandmother. And that's all I

40:11

remember

40:14

about her. I

40:15

don't remember ever mentioning her

40:17

in crash course, but I

40:19

might have. Yeah.

40:20

I mean, I remember mom saying

40:22

burness rums with burness a lot.

40:24

Yes. I

40:25

remember that. And then I visited Burness in Tennessee when

40:27

I was maybe, like, twenty three years old. It

40:29

was a great moment. Oh, wow. Actually,

40:32

so I

40:34

And I think I talked about this in

40:36

the anthropocene reviewed book, maybe, but I called so here's how

40:38

it went down, Hank. I was

40:41

into McDonald's in Tennessee,

40:44

And I was like, I close to

40:46

where my this woman

40:48

burn burnist lives who

40:50

I've always heard stories about. and

40:53

I do know last name. And so

40:56

I looked her up in the phone book

40:58

and I called her from

41:00

the pay phone at the McDonald's. And

41:04

I was

41:04

like, hey, so I

41:06

know this is a weird phone

41:09

call, but I'm

41:10

Billy Grace's grandson,

41:14

and I am

41:17

actually in your town. And

41:20

there

41:20

was a long pause, and then she said,

41:22

so you're saying that you're

41:24

akin to Billy Grace.

41:26

And I was like, yeah. And then

41:28

she said, so you're akin to me. And

41:31

I was like,

41:32

yes. And then she said,

41:34

well then

41:35

come on over.

41:42

It's a girl. It's like the bet the best

41:44

burnest story. That sounds like

41:46

and Burness would do knowing nothing about her.

41:48

And she was, like, eighty eight years

41:50

old and she made me like,

41:53

pimento cheese sandwiches.

41:56

And I was like,

41:56

I'm not hungry. I just came from McDonald's, and she was

41:58

like, well, you're not leaving this

41:59

house without evening without

42:02

eating. Oh my

42:02

god. Grant. I love

42:04

that. I'm so happy for you. So as far

42:06

as I know, that is the only burnest story

42:10

I have. I'm

42:10

and somehow burners made it into crash

42:13

course. Indeed, which,

42:14

you know, apparently,

42:16

That was a long time ago. I don't

42:18

remember everything I said in this video.

42:24

Alright, John, what's happening with AOC Wimbledon? Well,

42:26

Hank, nothing lasts forever, not even

42:28

cold November reign as Guns and Roses

42:31

memorably put it. And after unbeaten

42:34

Wind streak of ten

42:36

games, ASE Wimbledon finally lost a

42:38

game while I

42:40

was not tweeting

42:42

about them. So it turns out

42:44

that maybe I wasn't the cause

42:46

of the windstorm. have so much

42:48

power. Yeah. AFC Wimbledon

42:50

lost two nil to Chesterfield in

42:52

the second round of the FA cup. This is

42:54

a bummer because if you get to the third round of

42:56

the FA cup, you can make a bunch of money, but

42:58

it's not a mummer in the win anyway. So who

43:00

it's not like we were about to lift

43:03

the trophy. You know? So

43:06

it's a bummer because it could have been a

43:09

big payday, and we do

43:11

need a big

43:14

payday. But since we

43:16

last talked, actually, AFC Wimbledon

43:18

did win an additional game --

43:20

Oh. -- which is encouraging. And,

43:22

you know, at this nineteen games into the

43:25

League two season. We are solidly

43:27

mid table. And we like, when

43:29

I say solidly mid table, I mean that

43:31

our goal difference is

43:33

zero. we have scored exactly as many goals as we have

43:35

given up. And that's

43:38

not the end of the world. Like, I would

43:40

love to see us go on a run

43:42

here. We are only five points off the playoff but the

43:44

main thing is to make sure that we

43:46

stay out of the

43:50

replication zone. I'm reasonably happy

43:52

with how things are going so

43:54

far. And, oh, the only other thing that I should

43:56

mention is that we have a player in the

43:58

World Cup. which is

43:59

very

44:00

exciting, not least

44:02

because we get paid. The club

44:04

based -- Oh, runny. -- when you when you

44:06

have a player in the World Cup. They're

44:08

for, like, their time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Chris Gunther,

44:11

who is our starting

44:13

fallback, is one of the

44:15

backup fallbacks for whales.

44:18

So congratulations to AFC Wimbledon's

44:20

own World Cup player Chris

44:22

Gunther. You just like anything

44:24

that makes

44:25

us a little bit

44:28

of money. Oh, yeah. No. It's just good for us. Squeeke it

44:30

out dollar by dollar.

44:32

Well, at Mars news,

44:35

great, exciting that the ingenuity

44:38

helicopter is still working

44:40

-- Right. -- has granted in fact, has

44:42

been working so long that they've had to upgrade it

44:44

so it can continue to do its

44:46

job because or to do a new set

44:48

of jobs that it wasn't originally intended to

44:51

do. Mhmm. It was designed to just

44:53

fly over smooth terrain because they're just

44:55

basically, they're just seeing if this could, like,

44:57

work. Right. But it's continued to

44:59

exceed expectations. It's been really

45:01

helpful supporting the rover. like, it

45:04

can scout ahead -- Mhmm. -- and

45:06

see see what's going on, help navigate. But

45:08

in order to do that, it needed to get some

45:10

updates so that

45:12

it could land

45:14

better. So when it's flying

45:16

over a smooth terrain, it's been pretty straightforward to

45:18

find level places that don't have a lot

45:21

of rock that would damage the helicopter, but those

45:23

kinds of places are harder to find

45:25

where the rover is now. So

45:27

the software up it helps the helicopter find

45:29

safe spots to land using downward facing camera to detect objects

45:32

that might pose a risk and steer

45:34

away from those to find a better

45:36

landing area. And it also ingenuity

45:38

process differences between its own

45:40

movement and the terrain. So

45:43

ingenuity was designed

45:45

for smooth terrain, any changes in elevation would look to the helicopter,

45:47

like, it was it itself was

45:50

going up or down rather than the ground was

45:52

coming up and down. Oh,

45:54

yeah. So instead

45:56

of flying over a hill, it would,

45:58

like, correct its course in a way that

45:59

was not actually correct. So the

46:02

new software uses digital elevation

46:04

maps to make the distinction between hills

46:06

and the helicopters on

46:08

movement making it

46:10

better able to navigate in its in

46:12

the places where it is now. So super

46:14

helpful doing its job and way

46:18

doing way more than we ever expected

46:20

it to. So just doing software

46:22

updates to Mars -- Yeah. -- for helicopters.

46:25

This small matter of updating software on Mars. I

46:27

love what you just said. Doing its

46:30

job,

46:30

trying to be helpful.

46:34

and doing it as well as it can.

46:36

Like, maybe that's maybe what

46:39

the little helicopter on Mars is

46:41

doing is just what we all

46:43

need to do. the best that we can for

46:45

as long as we can. That's

46:47

right. So

46:48

we're doing our best. Definitely.

46:50

Yeah. it doesn't

46:52

have to worry about trying to find meaning, just landing spots. So

46:55

that's great. Yeah. That's true.

46:57

That's true. Well, Hank, thank

46:59

you for potted with thanks to

47:01

everybody for listening. If you wanna email us questions, please do

47:03

so at hankandjohngmail dot com. We

47:06

are so grateful for

47:08

your questions. and

47:10

for getting to spend this time with you.

47:12

We're off to record our Patreon only

47:14

podcast this weekend stuff. You can find out how to

47:16

listen to that at patreon dot com slash

47:18

pure Hank and John. This podcast

47:20

is edited by Joseph Toonometh. It's

47:22

produced by Rosiana Hall's Rojas. Our

47:24

communications coordinator is Brook Shotwell, our

47:26

editorial assistant is to bookie

47:28

truck Revarty, music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great

47:30

gonna roll up. And as they say in

47:32

our hometown, don't forget to

47:34

be

47:36

awesome.