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details. Hey

2:22

friends, Robin here. And guess what? The

2:24

letter of the day is R because

2:26

I'm here with Rosie and

2:28

we are joined by Ranjan, who

2:30

is the clinician here at Headspace.

2:33

And we have some big questions

2:35

today. We're going to be answering

2:37

ones about improving communications with a

2:39

partner and one about how to

2:41

work on processing grief. And

2:43

we also have a question about trying to

2:46

get over angry feelings from being forced to

2:48

be a mom at a young age. So

2:50

these are all really important questions. I think

2:52

we should just get right to it. Have

2:55

you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher

2:58

on speed dial? Someone you

3:00

can call after a long day. Someone

3:02

you could lean on for their advice. Someone

3:05

to listen and help you to see things

3:07

differently. Welcome to

3:09

Dear Headspace, a podcast

3:11

where I sit with a meditation teacher

3:13

and we answer your questions. All

3:18

right, our power, ladies. How are we

3:20

doing today? How is everybody? Going well.

3:22

Yeah, great. I'm so excited to be

3:24

here with you, Ranjan. This is like

3:26

such a, I'm so excited. This is

3:28

great. I love this little trifecta. I

3:30

know me too. I got a

3:33

little cold that I'm bringing the energy in here. So

3:35

I got a little like gravelly, like not

3:37

cute, to me more voice. So that's me.

3:39

I like it. I think you sound great

3:41

all up in. Oh, well, I'm going to

3:44

tell you guys, I am so thankful to

3:46

have this very powerful trio here today because

3:48

we have important questions. And they're sometimes

3:50

a little bit intense that we need

3:52

to answer. So we are

3:55

going to start off with our first

3:57

question from Ilari. OK, here we go.

4:00

Hi, this is Elaria from

4:02

Italy. So my question

4:05

is about communication, because

4:08

me and my boyfriend lately were

4:10

having some trouble because

4:12

I think we have two very

4:15

different kinds of sensitivity and

4:17

I feel a lot. And when

4:19

I try to tell him how

4:21

I feel, he doesn't

4:23

always react that well. Like

4:26

once he said I was ridiculous and

4:29

it was nonsense and this kind of

4:32

stuff. Most of the times we

4:34

make up because then he says, yeah,

4:36

I didn't really mean that you said

4:38

it in the wrong time. You

4:41

know, he says sorry and we go more. But

4:44

we've fallen into a loop because I

4:46

do remember that he said these things.

4:49

I guess my question is how

4:52

do I communicate better, how I

4:54

feel without feeling guilty about

4:56

it, also without putting

4:58

too much pressure on the other person

5:00

to understand me. Thank

5:03

you for the great work you do. Bye.

5:07

Oh, thank you so much for this question, Elaria. There's

5:11

a lot to unpack in this. Right out

5:13

of the gate, she's asking about how she can

5:15

communicate better, which I think, we

5:17

all should be working on communicating better. However,

5:20

I heard and I'm curious you

5:22

two, lots of other stuff in

5:24

there that didn't feel like necessarily her fault.

5:26

So I would love to hear what your

5:28

thoughts are, Rosie and Ranjan. I mean, for

5:30

me, just what I'm hearing, the

5:33

same thing that you heard, Robin.

5:35

I mean, communicating with people, it's

5:37

so much of how we establish a

5:39

connection with the people that we care

5:42

about. You know, communication, people always say

5:44

communication is key. And so it

5:47

does sound like it's not

5:50

entirely her fault. And

5:52

I think that that's where our

5:54

innate response is to be

5:56

reactive. Anyway, that's what it is

5:59

for me. having a discussion with somebody

6:01

or if I'm having

6:03

an argument. I don't

6:05

actually remember where I read this,

6:07

but in terms of mindful communication,

6:10

you know, there's always like this sort

6:12

of red light, yellow light, green light

6:14

metaphor. It's like the red light is

6:16

your defensive reactions, which is innately what

6:19

we get to, right? The

6:21

minute that we're having an argument about something already,

6:24

I'm feeling like I need to justify

6:26

myself. I need to establish

6:29

my defense because my

6:31

response needs to come first.

6:33

I'm right. You know, that kind

6:35

of thing. And

6:38

what I think Ellaria is doing is more of

6:40

this, she's being very... I'm

6:42

proactive almost. Yeah, proactive.

6:45

She's being aware.

6:47

She's being conscious. She's kind

6:50

of being in this yellow light

6:52

state, right, where you're in between and

6:54

you're being hyper aware of what the

6:56

other person is doing, observing

6:58

whether they're open or closed.

7:01

And then the green light

7:03

being the openness of the

7:07

experience. You're listening, you're paying

7:09

attention, you're communicating

7:11

well, and you're able

7:13

to express how you feel. There's

7:16

a sense of ease and there's

7:18

a sense of responsiveness.

7:21

Now, all those states are

7:24

implying that both people are wanting

7:27

the same thing. They're

7:29

wanting to achieve a sense of communication

7:31

and it's like what happens

7:33

when the other person is not

7:35

receptive? What do you do? Yeah, that's

7:38

good because she does mention that

7:40

the partner apologizes, but what I

7:42

didn't love about it was that you just

7:44

said it wrong, kind of part of it. But

7:46

there could be... I don't think English is

7:49

Ellaria's first language. So there could be a translation

7:51

issue there, so I don't want to make any

7:53

assumptions about her partner. But you go ahead,

7:55

Ranjana. One thing that stood out was... And

7:57

the fake woman that I've heard is the partner saying it's

7:59

the wrong thing. time that you said it. And

8:02

I don't think like communication happens in the

8:04

wrong time. I think the part of it

8:06

which beautifully Rosie explained the red, yellow and

8:08

green light was more about also

8:10

the fact that emotionally we are not right there.

8:13

It is possible that we are so emotionally

8:15

fueled by it that sometimes

8:18

we don't kind of understand the context in

8:20

a complete sense. Yeah. And so it can

8:22

be lost in translation. When we talk about

8:24

communication, we think like the minute the

8:27

word fall out of my mouth, the other person has

8:29

to sit there and like respond.

8:31

Sometimes it's, I mean, I have found this really

8:33

helpful. I might come in with an energy

8:35

and then I pause and be

8:37

like, Hey, I have a question or this

8:39

is how I'm feeling. Do you have time?

8:41

I have to chat with you for a

8:43

minute. Oh, that's great. And I think sometimes

8:45

that is important because like if

8:48

we are in a world where both the

8:50

partners are hit with some bad

8:52

news that is bringing in different reactions into

8:54

them, it can be transferred

8:57

onto the other person without it being

8:59

intentional. Yeah. So it could be that,

9:01

you know, Ellaria is struggling with something.

9:03

She comes in with that energy, but

9:06

her partner probably is having another side

9:08

of it. Yeah. And so sometimes you're

9:10

asking that it was just a small

9:12

part of like, Hey, can I

9:14

ask you like, I have to share something with you.

9:17

Is it a good time? I know we always talk

9:19

about like, it's not a good time or a bad

9:21

time. And that's open communication, but also how is it

9:23

receiving on the other end? I think you're

9:25

both touching on the thing that struck me in the question, which

9:27

is communications, a two way

9:29

street, you can do all the

9:31

work in the world, but you need to make

9:33

sure your partner is committed to the communication as

9:35

well, getting buy-in from your

9:38

partner and making sure, cause if there

9:40

isn't buy-in, I don't know.

9:42

I think that's a really unfair position for

9:44

you to be in, to have to be

9:46

working on your side of communication as if

9:48

you are the only person that's causing the

9:50

problem. Yeah. And also I think Robin to

9:52

add to that is to create an environment

9:56

of compassion and understanding.

9:58

Yeah. You know, I think. that's part of it

10:00

too. It's like if one

10:03

person is willing to communicate and

10:05

the other person isn't, can

10:07

we arrive at an agreement by

10:10

creating an environment of

10:12

compassion? Yeah, and like

10:14

boundaries, what are your boundaries? Like I

10:16

love, you know, that we're talking about

10:18

kind of like by wins. Like maybe

10:20

now is not the best time to

10:23

talk, but okay, when you're done with

10:25

this giant work project later today, could

10:27

we talk about it then? Yeah, and

10:29

just I think too, understanding your partner

10:31

and their ways of communicating. We all

10:33

have different communication languages, right? There's different

10:35

ways, even the red light,

10:38

yellow light, green light, you know, red

10:40

means stop, green means go, yellow,

10:42

some people speed up, some people

10:44

slow down. So I think there's

10:47

a little bit of finessing that

10:50

awareness of, okay,

10:53

most of the time when my partner is behaving this

10:55

way, it means it's not a good time and

10:59

maybe there's another way, you know, a

11:01

better time to approach them or would

11:04

they be less frustrated if instead

11:06

I brought this up earlier in the day or

11:09

later in the day? You know, it just, I

11:11

think it just takes some

11:13

getting to know what the communication

11:15

style is, but also establishing your

11:17

own boundaries and, you know, having

11:20

your partner respect that as well.

11:22

Yeah, but I actually think it's

11:24

very brave of Alaria and

11:26

wise to be bringing this conversation

11:28

to us because being

11:30

in a long-term relationship, if you're locked in like

11:33

a behavioral loop where it's just

11:35

a hop, skip and a jump to,

11:37

you always do this and it's like

11:39

no good comes from always and never

11:41

or means you're triggered and you're usually

11:44

in the past. So it's

11:46

like, I'm making a pitch for, you know,

11:48

we're sitting with a headspace clinician right now

11:50

for talking to a person, like

11:52

a couple's person or, you know, because

11:54

sometimes it's just you need to learn

11:56

how to talk to one another. You like,

11:59

you need a media. person to teach

12:01

you how to communicate in a fair

12:03

way. I even give you a zoomed out

12:05

perspective of what is exactly going on

12:07

then have like, you know, getting

12:09

lost in the woods. And I think

12:11

like one thing that I really like in communication

12:13

is to start with is like

12:15

even setting five minutes at the end of the

12:18

day to check in. Oh, I like that. How

12:20

are you feeling? How was your day? No, that's

12:22

really that's really great. I mean, there's just, it's

12:25

so funny because it's one of those things like you

12:27

think it should be so intuitive and it's just not.

12:29

It's not in a lot of levels in couples. Yeah,

12:31

I agree. All right. So thank you so

12:33

much for that question. Let's move

12:35

on to our next question. Here we go.

12:39

Hello, Robin and Peter.

12:42

So my question relates

12:45

to me having a child at

12:47

a very young age and

12:50

I didn't want to have this child. I

12:53

feel like I was forced and

12:56

it's been a long time, almost

12:58

two decades since that happened, but

13:01

I never really got

13:03

over that. And for all

13:05

of these years, I've been

13:07

trying to be as special

13:09

mother as I can be. But at the

13:11

same time, I haven't wanted to be a

13:14

mother. So I've always

13:16

felt like I'm living a

13:18

life that I never wanted.

13:21

It wasn't even due to

13:23

like beliefs against abortion or anything like

13:25

that. But my mother didn't let me

13:27

have one because she felt that if

13:30

I got one, I would blame her

13:33

for the rest of my

13:35

life for making me have an abortion.

13:37

When in reality, I blame

13:39

her for forcing me to have a

13:41

child. So what

13:44

advice do you have for

13:46

me to finally reconcile after

13:49

all of these years the

13:51

reality of my life and

13:54

what I actually wanted

13:56

for myself? Thank you. Wow,

14:00

I feel like we all need to

14:02

just take like a deep breath for

14:05

our friend who just called in with that

14:07

question. That's just, that's

14:09

a very big question and it's just there's

14:11

so much in here and I want

14:14

to say from my heart, thank you so much for

14:16

sharing this question with us. I mean, I know

14:19

when I'm going through something, it can feel like

14:21

a burden, it can feel scary and I can

14:23

feel very alone and so to

14:26

reach out for help for yourself I think

14:28

is so important and I don't know, I

14:30

have to believe that just by asking the

14:32

question, you're going to be helping other folks

14:34

who may feel similarly. So I just wanted to

14:36

say that but what are you

14:38

all's thoughts where we start on this

14:41

question? I mean, just kudos to

14:43

everything that you said

14:46

Robin. I mean, it's such a brave thing to

14:48

come out and say that, you know, to be

14:50

able to express how you're

14:52

feeling especially as a parent. Especially

14:54

as a parent. Yeah. And

14:56

I think that there's a lot of shame and even

14:58

guilt in that admission or parents, you know,

15:20

have such a hard, and I'm not a parent obviously, you

15:22

know, but I can speak to this knowing

15:24

having friends that were pregnant

15:26

when I was in high school, right? Like

15:29

there was a lot of teen pregnancies. I

15:31

mean, I had a little sister that was

15:33

born my sophomore year, so I was 15 and

15:35

I was her main

15:38

caretaker because my mom worked. So I

15:40

didn't have a life and I remember even

15:42

at that time feeling resentful

15:44

at having to take care of this

15:47

child, you know, and it made me

15:49

not want to have kids, right? For

15:52

a very long time, you know,

15:54

I was like, nope, I did it. I

15:56

raised my little sister. I'm good. I don't

15:58

need to have this process. so stressful,

16:00

it's so much work. And I think that,

16:03

you know, for me, culturally, in Hispanic

16:05

culture, that's like choosing to not have

16:07

a child is not is really frowned

16:09

upon, right? Like I was raised Catholic,

16:12

so it's a sin, you know,

16:14

like there's so much cultural pressure

16:17

wrapped up in those decisions. And

16:20

I think that there's so much

16:22

pressure, it sounds so much familial pressure,

16:25

you know, from her mom trying

16:27

to protect her, which in turn

16:29

had her make a decision that

16:31

ultimately she feels like she

16:33

may regret in some way, shape

16:35

or form. And

16:37

her reflection on, had

16:40

I not done this, I would be better

16:42

off, right? So there's no knowing

16:45

she could have done it and also

16:48

been regretting that moment. Yeah, so I

16:50

really, I really feel like, you

16:52

know, from a mindfulness perspective, we're dwelling on

16:55

the past, we're not able to enjoy the

16:57

present moment because we're thinking of what

16:59

could have been, how my

17:01

life could be different, especially if I'm not

17:04

in a good state right now, I'm thinking

17:06

about, Oh, I made this bad decision, I

17:08

should have done this, we start shitting all

17:10

over ourselves. And you know,

17:13

my teacher always says don't shit all over

17:15

yourself. And it's true, because it just

17:17

creates these unknown scenarios

17:19

that there is no knowing, we

17:22

don't know. It's always that other scenario that

17:24

you didn't choose was perfect. Exactly. Which it

17:26

may not be. It may not be, you

17:28

know, it's like, I think the fact of

17:30

the matter is, this person

17:32

is struggling right now. And

17:35

we all struggle. And I think it's really important

17:37

for her to acknowledge that and to call it

17:39

what it is and to say the things that

17:42

people don't want you to say, like,

17:44

Yeah, maybe I regret having this child.

17:47

And it's hard, it's hard being a parent

17:49

right now. I have no idea. I'm not a parent, but I

17:51

have a little sister and I have nieces and nephews. And I'll

17:54

tell you right now, like, I tip

17:56

my hat to all of the parents out

17:58

there because it is. hard to

18:00

be a parent. It is so hard.

18:02

I can't even imagine. A,

18:05

you're absolutely right, is freaking hard. Run, gentle,

18:07

back me up on this. B,

18:09

it's almost like there's two things happening

18:11

in the question. Like this first part

18:13

is whether it be a shame

18:15

or regret or grief or whatever, I

18:17

don't want to put any words on

18:19

their feelings, but like there's stuff that's

18:21

going on that maybe needs to be

18:23

cleared out. And then there's the now

18:26

what? First thing I will

18:28

back your problem. It is hard to be

18:30

a mom, hard to be a parent. Oh my God.

18:33

Every single minute. And I think irrespective

18:35

of whether you think you're ready to

18:38

be a parent or

18:40

it just happens or someone else takes

18:42

the decision for you, it's

18:45

like a 360 degree change in

18:47

your life. And it isn't easy

18:49

in its own way with the

18:51

mental health challenges that come with

18:53

it. But at the same time, it

18:56

can feel as though, you

18:58

know, what I'm hearing from the listener is feeling

19:01

that helpless, helplessness in terms of

19:03

I wasn't given the opportunity to

19:05

decide about my life. Yeah. And

19:07

that can bring a lot of

19:10

grief, a lot of sadness, and

19:13

definitely some form of anger. Yeah,

19:15

that's a really good point. And

19:17

then, you know, in therapy, we

19:19

talk about something called as like

19:22

radical acceptance. And then we

19:24

talk about like sometimes we do have people

19:26

who don't create the

19:28

problems. And they still have

19:30

to deal with all the difficult situations.

19:32

And what comes with it is radical

19:34

acceptance, accepting that this is it is

19:37

what it is. And we're focusing on

19:39

the here and now the present moment,

19:42

and focusing on what can I do

19:44

from here for myself to

19:46

take care of myself. And from

19:49

a cultural perspective, like I'm a South Asian,

19:51

yes, not having kids is not an option.

19:54

And without recognizing that there is so

19:56

much with the world and the way

19:58

the world is working. right now, the

20:01

social support is so less for

20:03

a working parent. And

20:06

recognizing that there isn't much

20:08

of a community that is nonjudgmental,

20:10

where they are willing to hold

20:13

you and say, hey, it's okay,

20:15

let's fight this together. And so

20:18

it can feel like I want

20:20

to have that kind of communication

20:22

and I want to kind of openly talk about

20:24

it, but it can also feel like I just

20:27

feel helpless at all times. You know, I feel

20:29

this weight of this person,

20:32

of this child that

20:34

I'm holding. And somewhere

20:37

I lost a different track

20:39

of my life. Yeah, parenting

20:41

as a choice, like when you were like,

20:43

I can't wait to be a mom. And

20:46

it's still the most difficult thing I've ever

20:48

done in my entire life. But I chose

20:50

it, I actively had to jump

20:52

through a lot of hoops to make my family. Yet

20:55

it's still very hard. And there's times where you're like,

20:58

what did I do? I say that with the

21:00

most love, you know, like, I doesn't mean I ever

21:02

would take it back or want to change it, but

21:05

I got to choose it. So like,

21:07

there has to be a reckoning of the fact

21:09

that a choice was taken from you. And,

21:12

and to move through that before you can

21:14

even do the what is now. I also

21:17

want to add that I love to play devil's advocate.

21:19

So I look at it as like,

21:22

if I'm looking from a mom's perspective,

21:24

who coming from a generational point of

21:26

view, right, like where decisions were

21:28

taken, and there's a generation where like,

21:30

they would always take these decisions, because

21:33

that is the thought process that you don't

21:35

know better, which isn't the case. But that

21:37

is how that generation functioned. So they were

21:39

just aligning to what they knew about their

21:41

generation and how they were raised and what

21:43

parenting at that time looks like. I

21:46

know in today's world, it is more about like

21:48

gentle parenting and all that. And

21:51

that in itself is also hard, right?

21:53

Like, because now you have to mind

21:55

your own emotions before you can

21:57

talk to your But

22:02

I'm just saying that sometimes even looking from that

22:04

perspective is holding that anger towards

22:06

your own parent. How is that helping

22:08

you and how is that benefiting you?

22:10

And passing and asking yourself that what

22:13

that parent did at that point was

22:16

probably what they learned. Probably

22:19

it was a cultural pressure. Probably

22:22

it was a social pressure. Does not

22:24

make that parent weak either. It was

22:26

just that they wanted to protect their

22:28

child and that's all. I

22:31

think all the time about what my kids are

22:33

going to be saying about me when, like, as

22:35

they're older. And I hope that they say that

22:37

we did the best that we could with what

22:39

we had at the time. You

22:41

always hope as a parent that that's what they're going to

22:43

say. I mean that's such a powerful thing even to just

22:45

think that. My parents

22:48

were not, they didn't do the greatest of

22:51

jobs but they did what they could and

22:53

they did their best. I'm not saying it

22:55

could have been better. Of course it could have

22:57

been better. They could have done a better job. But

22:59

they did what they could in the

23:02

time that they did and I'm so grateful

23:04

for what my experience was because

23:06

it's built the person that I am today. And

23:10

I love who I am because of it, you know.

23:12

And I've learned so much from them and

23:14

I think I love that perspective too. It's

23:18

like to have compassion for her

23:20

mom, right? It's

23:22

like she did what

23:25

she thought was best and

23:27

ultimately it could have,

23:29

should have, would have. We waste so

23:31

much time on what could have

23:33

been or what should have happened instead

23:35

of just saying like these were the

23:37

decisions that I made because we

23:40

did make a decision. And

23:42

I think at this point what

23:44

is the best course of action? The

23:47

best course of action is to

23:49

feel supported and to feel

23:52

like you can continue your life in

23:54

a way that's going to be

23:57

the best possible route for you,

23:59

right? It's like taking

24:01

your child and your mom out of

24:03

the equation. What is the best

24:05

thing that you can do for yourself right

24:07

now? And I'll tell you that

24:09

thinking about the past and projecting into

24:12

the future is not it. It's

24:15

like, what can you do for yourself to

24:17

get yourself through this moment in

24:19

time? Yeah. Well,

24:21

no matter what, I just, again,

24:23

I just want to reiterate what I said at

24:25

the top. But thank you so much for sending

24:28

us this question. You are brave. You

24:30

are loved and you are part of a community

24:32

of people who are out here supporting you. And

24:35

you are not alone. I think that is

24:37

the most important thing. Like even folks like

24:39

us who chose it, we still struggle and

24:41

it's still hard and not enough people talk

24:44

about it. So don't take that on. We're

24:46

with you. Okay. We

24:49

will be right back. Ignite

24:54

your passion for discovery at the COSI Science

24:56

Festival, May 1st through the 4th. The

24:59

festival is three days packed with interactive community

25:01

events, featuring exhibits, live demos and

25:03

engaging conversations with experts in

25:05

science, technology, engineering, arts and

25:07

math. And on Saturday, May 4th, join

25:10

us for the free big science celebration featuring over

25:12

100 exhibitors, all with interactive activities to

25:15

share. And of course there will be

25:17

larger than life science demonstrations, live music and more

25:19

from 11am until 5pm. Just

25:21

outside of COSI. Visit cosiscifest.org to

25:23

learn more. Okay,

25:29

we've got one more question from Rowena. Here we

25:32

go. Hi Headspace. My

25:35

name is Rowena and I'm from the

25:37

UK. I've gone

25:39

through some difficult losses this

25:41

year. I've lost my cat

25:43

to cancer and

25:45

I've lost my granddad the following month.

25:48

I've been listening to your podcast,

25:50

which has really helped me, especially

25:53

the grief podcast and also

25:55

been in touch with UK

25:57

Charities that have helped me. Wondering

26:00

do you have any says read vice

26:02

the i could take home please not

26:05

to tell me and helped my husband

26:07

who sell. Squeeze. In

26:09

a different way. Thank. You. Know

26:13

Rowena are sending you love and you

26:15

know it's It's hard to lose people

26:17

but it's also hard to lose our

26:19

pets like they're like little members of

26:21

our families. So we're sending you love

26:23

and I I was thinking about. Unfortunately

26:25

sometimes it's like it's time but I

26:27

was thinking about when my mom passed

26:29

away and like I tried to to

26:31

do list my way through grief the

26:33

guy was like I will write out

26:35

my feelings I will journals go to

26:37

yoga and eight yo suddenly a like

26:39

sobbing a yoga class insists like I

26:41

couldn't I couldn't to do listed. Away because

26:43

it took time and I had to just

26:45

process it. The up there is no one

26:48

size. Fits all to grieving.

26:50

You know, Greaves is

26:52

our natural human response.

26:55

And. It's different. You know?

26:57

for different people, you know losing. A

26:59

job grieving a Pack Grieving a

27:01

loved one. I think it

27:04

just really depends on. How

27:06

you process things. I'm a big fan

27:08

of therapy. Always talk about it. I

27:10

mean for me, talking to somebody always

27:13

helps. I know Robin You You like

27:15

to write, that's part of your process.

27:17

I think for me

27:20

understanding that. Greece.

27:22

Is not something that just passes,

27:24

it's more something that it just

27:26

becomes a part of your life

27:28

in a way. Know that some

27:30

people like to have the finale

27:32

of grief as something that comes

27:34

in and then goes away. Other

27:36

people like to not feel they're

27:38

a little bit more avoidant with

27:40

their because they don't know how

27:42

to process those feelings and or

27:44

you're the type of person that

27:46

can grieve incrementally late. for me.

27:48

I feel like. You.

27:51

Know I was really close. to my our

27:53

lead guy you know my little grandmother passed

27:55

away in i talked to her every week

27:57

she's been in my life my entire life

27:59

and So I randomly just some memory

28:02

might come in where all of

28:04

a sudden I just start crying.

28:06

You know, or I have a

28:08

dream about her and or

28:10

I hear a song or I'm

28:12

looking at the hummingbirds. Like it's just so

28:15

random and I could be totally like laughing

28:17

ha ha ha ha, like everything's great. And

28:19

then the next moment I'm just like crying.

28:21

And I think that that's part of it,

28:23

you know. But you know what's

28:25

interesting about that Rosie though is like I just

28:28

had this experience like this morning. I

28:30

keep getting served this like Instagram ad. It's

28:33

like a little hammock that you put on

28:35

your car window for cats and

28:37

I was like, good Lord, my dad would have

28:39

loved that. Cause he trained his cat to drive

28:41

in car, on long trips with him. But I

28:44

had this thought that just came to me that

28:46

like, they're still with me. Like my

28:48

dad is still with me because I'm thinking of him

28:50

in these moments and I'm like, oh, I wish he

28:52

was here. I would, I would get on Amazon so

28:54

fast and send him that stupid little cat hammock. But

28:57

it's like they are still with us. And it's

28:59

like, that's the first time that I've not missed

29:01

them in that moment. Like one of my parents.

29:04

Yeah, and grief is temporary and

29:06

love is eternal. The love that

29:08

you have for the person or

29:11

your pet is gonna live forever.

29:13

I mean, I think that the hardest heartbreak

29:16

is that you're trying to like squeeze

29:20

the love of two people into one

29:22

heart, right? So I think that that's

29:24

the process that hurts the most because

29:27

it's like, there's so

29:29

much love there that it hurts that

29:31

it's no longer being carried by the

29:33

other. And so I think

29:36

that talking about it is

29:38

really helpful. And also just, I'm

29:41

gonna touch just a tad on what she said

29:43

at the end, how her

29:45

partner grieves differently. And I think

29:48

there's room there for understanding

29:51

and kindness and compassion as

29:54

well. Because for me, I

29:57

would see how my entire family, we

29:59

all lost. a grandmother, right? Like

30:01

we all lost her and we

30:04

were all grieving in different ways. Some people would

30:06

start crying all of a sudden. Some people were

30:08

like laughing, joking, like talking to other family members.

30:11

And then I would get these moments of looking

30:13

at some of my cousins as they're like laughing

30:15

and stuff. I'm like, why are you laughing? Like

30:17

this is terrible. But then, you

30:20

know, like an hour later, I'm

30:22

seeing, you know, some of my other cousins that

30:24

I've not seen and then we're joking and laughing.

30:26

And then I get mad at myself.

30:28

I'm like, why am I laughing? I should be sad, you

30:30

know? So I think it's really important

30:33

to be able to accept the

30:36

different way in which people grieve because I

30:38

feel like it just makes the process that

30:40

much better. You know, sometimes you want to

30:42

be in your feels, right? Sometimes

30:44

you want to listen to the music and be like,

30:46

okay, I just need to be sad for a moment.

30:49

And then you might have that friend who cracks a

30:51

joke and you start laughing. You're like, I don't want

30:53

to laugh right now. I want to be in my

30:56

sadness. And I think it's important for us

30:58

to discern when those

31:00

moments are of processing and

31:03

what that looks like for us and to

31:05

really honor those processes for ourselves.

31:07

And the one thing that I will

31:09

say for me, like losing a pet is

31:11

so hard. It is

31:14

something that is the same gravitas

31:16

in my heart. It's so, it

31:18

can weigh really heavy on me.

31:21

And I think it's really important to be able

31:23

to know what you do

31:25

for yourself in order to move through

31:28

those feelings, whether it's going for a walk,

31:30

talking to a friend, talking to a therapist,

31:32

journaling, or just having a good

31:34

cry. You said it so beautifully,

31:36

Rosie. Lost in itself is

31:38

so hard. Being there, like I

31:40

always recall my grandfather and the

31:43

way and my grandmother, like the way things

31:45

just went. And it's funny,

31:47

like when you mentioned that, you know, you would

31:49

see them sometimes or you remember them, like it

31:52

feels nice because just recently on

31:55

his death anniversary, I remember like him

31:57

coming in my dreams all of a sudden. Just for life.

32:00

a fleeting moment and it just

32:02

felt so good. Like I was

32:04

like, oh, you're there. Like I

32:06

can feel you. And

32:08

I don't think when I lost him, I

32:10

had the capacity to cry or feel all

32:13

of those. Like there were just so many

32:15

things happening all of a sudden, okay, you

32:17

can get this and this and there's people

32:19

coming and let them know. Versus I remember

32:21

like seeing my sister grieve in such a

32:23

different way. And

32:26

also recognizing that even

32:28

based on your experience

32:30

with grief, you tend

32:33

to process it very differently.

32:35

Like some people, as we talk about like the

32:37

stages of grief, right? Like some people just go

32:40

in and like, okay, I'm going to rush through

32:42

this, get this over with. Versus

32:44

others are like, okay, I'm going to go in a denial. Then

32:47

I'm going to have some anger. Then I'm going to have

32:49

some sad and very low,

32:51

low, exactly. And I think it

32:53

is what we have seen in movies where

32:55

we see

32:59

like people saying, oh, everybody's so sad and

33:01

everybody's like quiet and you don't make a

33:04

joke out of it. But sometimes like you

33:06

have to remember the best parts of the

33:08

individual. Like that keeps their memory

33:10

alive in you. And I think that guides you

33:12

towards being a better version, like

33:14

things that they have always pushed you to become.

33:17

I think like those things keep it going. So

33:20

as you rightly said, like grief is something

33:23

that can seem like, okay, we pass here,

33:25

you're done. Like one year later, you should

33:27

not be grieving anymore. I think you're always

33:29

grieving the loss because they have had an

33:31

impact on your life on some level. Yeah.

33:34

Grief can look very

33:37

unique to a person. Yeah.

33:39

And it can hit you at any time

33:42

based on like what the nervous system feels

33:44

at that point, I would say that way.

33:46

Yeah. And it's, you know, and it's like, I

33:49

found for me, there was so much to do when

33:51

my parents died. There was like so many things that

33:53

needed to happen. And there was, you know, and then

33:55

you're there and you're here. And it was not until

33:57

I got home that I was That's

34:01

when it all started and I think that's it

34:03

and all the calls have ended by that point.

34:06

So it's it can feel very lonely

34:08

and I think when you take like

34:10

Rowena's had two losses sort

34:12

of back to back and people don't know what to

34:14

do with that you know. So it's like I think

34:16

that finding people is another

34:18

resource whether it be a grief group

34:20

or you know there's just there's lots

34:23

of resources but underneath all of the

34:25

resources is just patience and

34:27

trying to find the love and the joy of the

34:29

person. I don't know what else there is

34:32

to do unfortunately. I think like

34:34

on some level it could also be

34:36

tapping into that a friend or

34:38

someone who can like check in with you.

34:42

You know someone that you trust in saying like

34:44

hey I'm I'm struggling. I think that

34:46

that's a problem. We don't say we

34:48

are struggling. Yes and also just to

34:50

add to that I think sometimes

34:53

us as friends need to check in

34:55

on our friends who have gone through

34:58

something like a

35:00

loss because nobody

35:02

likes to feel discomfort and especially if you

35:04

know that your friend is going through something

35:06

sometimes we feel like we might not want to

35:08

bring it up because we don't want to

35:10

make them upset but sometimes that's not

35:12

that it's going to upset them but I think

35:14

sometimes we need that you know we need to

35:16

be that friend to check in on

35:19

our people and say like hey you know I

35:21

know that you lost

35:24

one of your parents or you lost your grandmother or

35:26

your pet just died like how are you

35:28

doing you know. How can I support you

35:30

you know are you how are you feeling. Yeah

35:33

well wonderful wonderful wonderful advice from

35:36

both of you on

35:38

all of these questions. I mean they were a

35:40

bit heavy today and I don't think that's a

35:42

bad thing. I think it's just it's something to

35:44

be aware of and I think it makes me

35:47

think you just never know like what someone is

35:49

going through in any given day and I think

35:51

it's a nice reminder about having compassion for others

35:53

as we kind of journey through our day. Yeah

35:56

I love that I think having communal support

35:58

is always the key. And

36:00

saying that for those of you who

36:02

have gone through the hard

36:05

thing of losing a pet,

36:07

I just recorded a losing

36:09

a pet meditation that will be

36:11

available in the app coming soon.

36:14

That's so great because I think that that's one of those

36:16

things that we just... There's

36:19

not a ton of support around that. So I

36:21

think that's great. And I want to say a

36:23

huge thanks to our callers today for just sharing

36:25

these really important questions and trusting us as part

36:27

of your community. And if you're

36:29

at home or at work or in your commute and

36:31

you're listening and you've got some stuff

36:34

going on that you'd like some help with, all

36:36

you have to do is just head over to

36:38

sayhi.chat slash your headspace and you can record your

36:40

question. And of course, as always, that link is

36:42

in the show notes. And if

36:44

we are able to use your question in

36:46

the show, you're going to get three months

36:48

of headspace for free, which I think we've

36:50

proven over and over again is a lovely

36:53

thing. Yes, it's always a lovely thing. And

36:55

yes, please send us your questions. We're always

36:57

honored to hear from you. We've

36:59

approached that moment where we're going to transition

37:01

into the rest of your day. So this

37:03

is a moment where you can just

37:06

take a moment to integrate everything you

37:08

heard and you can reflect and settle

37:10

your mind. So hear the sounds of

37:12

a temple in the forest. Listen

37:15

and let your mind do whatever it wants

37:17

to do. Until next

37:19

time, stay happy, stay healthy,

37:22

and be kind to each other. This

39:00

is Vice Presidentmble Dear

39:25

Headspace is a Headspace Studio's original

39:27

podcast. It's produced by Robin

39:29

Hopkins, Ash Jones, and Scott

39:31

Norensen. It's executive produced

39:33

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39:35

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39:38

Our production coordinator is Taylor Jennings-Brown. It's

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hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Kesanga

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39:49

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production is by Dan Kroll. Music

39:54

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