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microsoft.com/AI for all. This

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is death, sex, and money from Slate.

0:32

I mean a sale. Our

0:34

show has just joined Slate this year, as

0:36

you may have heard, and as we celebrated

0:39

with our revival episode in your feed last

0:41

week. The team and I

0:43

are busy recording and crafting new episodes that

0:46

we will start sharing with you very soon.

0:48

But in the meantime, as we

0:50

put down new roots and keep refining

0:52

our mission for this new era of

0:55

the show, we're gonna share some episodes

0:57

with you that really to me exemplify

0:59

the spirit of death, sex, and money,

1:01

and what we wanna do together with

1:03

our listeners. And

1:05

as you listen to these classic episodes, here's

1:08

what I want you to pay attention to. We

1:11

talk about death, sex, and money here, yes, but

1:13

I'm most proud of how we do that.

1:16

We are a show that tries to get to the

1:18

heart of things, that doesn't pull

1:20

punches when there's a tough or delicate question.

1:22

I'm gonna ask it. And

1:25

I'm also going to give our guests room

1:27

to explain, to try

1:29

to help me and by extension us, the

1:32

listeners, understand something

1:34

specific about their experience,

1:36

to make it concrete in all of our

1:39

imaginations. And that

1:41

objective, to listen closely,

1:43

to hear the moments of transition and difficult

1:46

choices that have made up each person's life,

1:49

that's affected how I move through the world.

1:52

And I feel like this episode that we're sharing

1:54

today, we first made in 2017, it really shows

1:57

that. What

2:00

happens when I look up and

2:03

ask some questions about what's

2:05

going on with all the other people Moving

2:07

around the community where I live Are

2:11

you in school or you out of school or what stage of

2:13

life are you in now? Figuring

2:16

it out Just

2:19

like everybody else in for uber My

2:25

show is sex and money and it's about

2:27

sex and money I'm

2:30

so sorry It's

2:32

actually it's about the things that

2:34

everyone that everyone goes through But

2:38

that we have trouble kind of talking about

2:40

you're not gonna put this on TV, huh? With

2:47

what seems like an endless amount of information

2:50

at our fingertips We tend to forget that

2:52

wondering about things is really part of the

2:54

journey to finding answers We're looking for so

2:56

when it comes to the hot topics

2:59

of Israel Judaism and Zionism There's

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4:20

Hello. Hi, Ahmad. This is

4:22

Anna. You just confirmed my pickup. Yes,

4:25

ma'am. Yeah, yeah. I just have

4:27

a quick question for you. I'm a radio

4:29

reporter and I'm doing interviews with Uber drivers

4:31

while I take rides today. Are

4:33

you open to answering just a few questions

4:36

about the kinds of conversations you have with

4:38

passengers while you drive? Like

4:40

what kind of questions you have? Just

4:42

kind of like, you know, why you

4:44

drive and what it's like driving around and

4:46

the kinds of people you meet and sorts

4:48

of conversation you have. Yeah, no problem. Yeah,

4:51

no problem. Okay, cool. I'll see you in a few minutes.

4:54

Bye. Producer,

4:56

Katie Bishop and I recorded interviews

4:58

for this episode over a couple of days. An

5:01

Uber ride after Uber ride all around

5:03

the Bay Area. Hello. Hello, Anna. How

5:05

you doing? We rode in the backseat

5:08

and turned drivers' cars into recording studios.

5:10

Why are those so big, big

5:12

bikes and holes? You're scaring me

5:14

now. At

5:17

the time, Uber was in the news

5:19

a lot, particularly its leadership and corporate

5:22

culture. But I wanted to know

5:24

more about the drivers and what keeps them

5:26

on the road. I want to take my wife to Spain, so

5:28

I started doing this. I don't want to

5:30

get sick at home. And I have money

5:32

when I need to buy something for my little

5:34

son or for my house. We

5:36

also heard about the downsides of driving

5:39

for Uber. In order to make full-time money, you have

5:41

to work like 11 to 12 hours. I

5:44

drive more at nighttime, so I know how

5:46

to handle the drunk people. There's a lot

5:48

of competition, and it's kind

5:50

of difficult to get a ride sometimes.

6:00

15, 20 minutes you spend together. Conversations

6:03

can get surprisingly personal. We

6:05

had a pretty bad experience

6:08

with parents. Like,

6:10

you know, did not get enough

6:12

love when we

6:14

were younger. Everyone

6:17

has a story about what happened in their lives

6:19

that got them driving for money. I was working

6:21

in mortgages. 2008 lost my job. I'm

6:25

like the Jack of all trades.

6:27

I've worked with people like Justin

6:29

Bieber. No way. Before

6:32

I was in the restaurant, the Mexican

6:34

restaurant. When you first got here, you had

6:36

a different job? Yeah, pizza. Pizza?

6:38

A little pizza, yeah. This job

6:40

is better because this job, pizza

6:42

don't talk. That's

6:47

what led us to a grocery store

6:50

parking lot, standing around with microphones out,

6:52

headphones on, waiting for a mod.

6:55

I think this is a mod. Hi,

6:59

how you doing? So

7:08

how long have you been driving? One

7:11

and a half year. And why did you start? I

7:17

just started because I thought it's

7:20

more money in the Uber. And

7:22

how many hours a week do you do it generally? When

7:26

I started, I was working like 70 hours.

7:31

Yeah, 70 hours. And

7:33

now I'm doing like 50 to 55 hours. Like

7:38

on a really good week, what's

7:40

the most that you've made? I

7:44

have made $2500 a week before. And

7:49

right now I'm just making like $1500,

7:51

maybe like $1200. What

7:56

brought you to the Bay Area originally? I

7:59

just moved from... since when

8:02

I moved here I had an uncle here in Union

8:04

City so I was living with him for

8:06

for a year. And what

8:08

kind of work were you doing back then? I

8:11

was working for an ice cream store. Ice

8:14

cream store and

8:16

the cloth store that was a cloth store over

8:18

there. So you were working like

8:20

retail? Yeah retail. Sounds

8:23

like you probably are making a lot more money as an

8:25

Uber driver than you did at those

8:28

jobs. Uber like

8:31

if I am doing eight hours job

8:33

in in any other place I'm making

8:35

the same money. The thing is

8:37

like the Uber I go for

8:39

like 12 hours 14 hours

8:42

even I have worked like before 28 hours

8:45

throughout. So yeah.

8:47

Why did you do that? That's

8:49

a lot of hours in a row. I

8:51

know but like when you

8:54

are new here you you see the

8:56

people like hey these people are better

8:58

than me so I do

9:00

that like I have to make some more money. Uh-huh.

9:05

Do you often talk with your riders or

9:07

you quiet? Before I

9:09

was I used to talk a lot with

9:13

the riders but right now I

9:15

try to being quiet. Why

9:17

did you change? Because the

9:20

people in Pakistan

9:22

we have a we

9:25

have a like a thinking the American

9:28

people they are very nice they are very

9:30

generous even more than our people. So

9:32

that's why I was used to talk

9:34

a lot with the people like I thought

9:37

you guys like to talk more and

9:41

then I realized now they are kind of different

9:43

people not not that

9:45

kind of generous. So

9:47

your your opinion of Americans has

9:49

shifted? Have shifted yeah. Is

9:52

that because of interactions you've had or because?

9:54

Yeah with the interaction with the people

9:56

interaction. Oh really? Yeah

9:58

I realized that. Because

10:01

back then I had a very good

10:03

opinion about the American people. Like in

10:05

general, I mean they are very

10:07

kindly or wherever you can say. So

10:10

now it has changed. A little bit, not too much.

10:13

Is your life here in the Bay Area, is

10:15

it like what you imagined when you decided to

10:17

come? No. I

10:21

wish I, before moving here, I would

10:23

have come to America to see things, how

10:26

the things are. Then I

10:28

would choose if I want to move here

10:30

or not. But I

10:32

did the wrong thing, I just packed

10:34

my whole luggage and came to

10:36

America. And I said

10:38

like fuck. It's not a

10:41

good life. Like how

10:43

I imagine. It

10:48

wasn't just drivers new to California who

10:50

told me life here wasn't what they

10:52

expected. A driver named Matthew

10:54

is from here. And 10 years after graduating

10:57

high school, he's trying to make enough money

10:59

to stay. He's worked as a

11:01

server at a grocery store and is trying to

11:03

break into coding now. He's been driving

11:05

for Uber since October. Like

11:07

for me and all my friends, it's just

11:09

like nobody's making it. Everybody's in debt. Like

11:13

all my friends that decided to go for the four

11:15

year and they didn't really come for money and they

11:17

pulled out student loans. They just reeling

11:20

from it. Like they're

11:22

not doing any better than I am and I didn't go that route

11:24

at all. What did you do right after

11:26

high school? I did try and

11:28

go to DVC. I went there for about a year

11:30

or two. What was that? Diablo Valley

11:32

College. Community college. Yeah,

11:37

I just never really figured out exactly what I wanted to do

11:40

until it was a little too late. I

11:42

did try and take coding stuff at that school

11:44

in about two weeks. I was like I

11:47

could teach myself more at home alone in one day

11:49

than I've learned in this class in two weeks. So

11:51

I just decided to drop out of that class and just do it on

11:53

my own. Have you had somebody who

11:56

has like you go to for advice when you're

11:58

trying to figure out next steps? Yeah,

12:00

I totally have a I. Am

12:02

someone's pato on him to take me under

12:04

his wing is I can have a friend

12:06

that I met their friend and he's in

12:08

a. Coating Business. Had

12:11

weren't What's that a reference to? Are worse

12:13

I said no that's an eye out on. An

12:17

end of the know that that's how you refer

12:19

to him. Data on even. And

12:23

what? Slick and you have a

12:25

conversation. With. A passenger that had

12:27

that like you think back on and so

12:29

been anything that sake. A

12:32

moment we're like wow that change the

12:34

way I thought about something. On.

12:38

This. Definitely gonna have a bunch of

12:40

tiny ones. It's more fascinating the realize

12:42

all these different people, different destinations. Kind

12:45

of like I'll talk to them, I'll

12:47

drop one person off. it's don't you.

12:52

Are attending a wedding? They bring that

12:54

that energy in our lives car and

12:56

in fifteen minutes later the gone. It's

12:59

a macguffin and you're driving them to

13:01

like their moms grains. I've totally done

13:03

that. Is crazy for

13:05

get these different energies that come to the car

13:07

in scanner like oh that's awesome you go know

13:09

adding that so cool him next person gets under

13:11

the current. they're having the worst day ever and

13:13

they're just kind of staring out the window. A

13:18

guy I saw some a i'm

13:20

a feminist amis councillor really and

13:22

I say I also sounds so

13:24

last. Time

13:27

I can sell more. Almost

13:29

anything is. This

13:32

is evelyn season driving for Uber for

13:34

about a year. twice a week or

13:36

so. extra money. The anything. I've.

13:53

Done is. merely

13:56

are you selling to people who are planning

13:58

ahead or are you selling the people who

14:00

already... Both. Both. Pre-need

14:02

and at-need. Oh, that's what it's

14:05

called? Yeah, pre-need when you're planning.

14:07

Uh-huh. For your family or for

14:09

yourself. At-need is when somebody's

14:12

already passed away. I

14:15

imagine it feels really different when

14:17

it's pre-need or at-need. Like a

14:19

different experience. It's

14:22

almost the same thing. It's just a lot

14:24

of paperwork. Uh-huh. I've

14:27

been more into real estate side,

14:29

actually. Uh-huh. When the real estate

14:31

market went down, you know, I

14:34

slowed down. I lost some property

14:36

soon. So... So you

14:38

got hit... Anytime you see turn right onto

14:40

Harrison Street. Hit sort of with

14:43

the downturn and the foreclosure crisis.

14:45

Correct. Correct. Uh-huh. Was

14:47

it investment properties that you lost?

14:49

Everything. Everything. Everything. Oh.

14:53

So have you been sort of rebuilding since then? Yeah.

14:56

Rebuilding financially and rebuilding

14:58

life. You know.

15:01

When you say you lost everything, what do

15:03

you mean? Lost my houses. Houses.

15:06

Houses. Oh,

15:08

yes. Income, that kind of stuff. Yeah.

15:11

You know, and children are growing up.

15:13

It was a hardship. It was... It

15:16

was a traumatic experience in my life.

15:18

I know that I have children with

15:20

me. You know, I have my grandchildren

15:22

with me. But hey, life

15:25

is... That is good. Are

15:30

you... Do you have a spouse? Divorce.

15:33

Divorced. Yeah. So you're a

15:36

single woman navigating all of

15:38

that. Navigating the Ubertu.

15:40

Yeah. Expert navigator. What

15:49

helped you when it was the scariest? What

15:52

helped me? Yeah. I

15:54

think my charts. That's when... I

16:00

can't have that. Dad

16:03

has reason for everything. You.

16:06

Ever go back to where your old houses

16:08

where to look at them? Oh yeah all

16:10

the time near my children go past by

16:12

and driverline. How. Does it feel to

16:14

look at it? I

16:17

just miss my plants. Yeah

16:19

because I love plants in our as

16:21

it all of that my lamb on

16:23

the still alive as out of rules.

16:27

The. And

16:31

when live in the house? Yes now he

16:33

has also Filipinos a month or her. Be.

16:37

I want to go back to

16:39

of flipping houses. It didn't spooky,

16:41

we didn't scare you after nine

16:43

in in this this life he

16:45

is all a part of life.

16:47

What you gonna do You just

16:49

gonna lay down there and take

16:51

everything now. They're not the fight. I

16:54

learn how to fight. Coming

16:59

up more conversation and the backseat

17:01

avenue birch me how to pronounce

17:04

your first name in Nepali accent.

17:06

You call it modern modern. Ah

17:08

so it's about to the American

17:11

the I go mad. Man

17:15

I. We

17:29

put together with come to call and

17:31

race panel episodes. We gather a group.

17:33

Of buried gas to listen to your stories

17:35

and questions about something going on in your

17:38

life and then way and with advice about

17:40

what one next. Be sweet.

17:42

Ten episodes about ceiling with decision

17:44

Fatigue About relationships, sex questions about

17:46

fear Remember that one. Steve O

17:49

from Jackass is one of our

17:51

guests for our next advice so

17:53

we want to know if you

17:55

are considering. A big me set

17:57

in your life for is your or.

18:00

Memento of one and need some advice

18:02

about some heard of it. Are you

18:04

trying to figure out the timing of

18:06

when to make the jump? Are you

18:09

facing some challenges? Having made some big

18:11

adjustment, I often find that I can

18:13

sense the need for. Change for for

18:16

have any idea what the actual thing.

18:18

I want to change to his which

18:20

can make for quite a chicken or

18:22

egg dilemma like few. Make space for

18:25

something new and your life. Would you

18:27

wait to make a big change until

18:29

you know exactly what you're moving towards?

18:31

Will try to help. With these kinds

18:33

of reset essence and a. Voice my

18:36

mouth and tell us your name, a bit

18:38

about the big reset your considering for in

18:40

the middle of right now and what

18:42

you need advice about and then send it

18:44

to us at. That sex

18:47

many at state.com. And

18:49

we may use it in an upcoming

18:51

episode again. Send us your reset advice

18:54

questions to our email and box at

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that six money. At Slate

18:58

com. And speaking

19:00

of recess, you may have heard me

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say this already, but I want to

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underline for you that in this transition

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it free. Hello.

21:42

How are you? Good, this is

21:45

my producer, Katie. Hey, how's it going, Katie? This is Death, Sex,

21:48

and Money from Slate. I'm Anna Sale, and this is

21:50

Jeremy. He drives Uber part-time, so

21:52

he and his wife can save up for a ride home.

21:55

I'm Anna Sale, and this is Jeremy. He

21:57

and his wife can save up to buy a house. I

22:00

do it on my days off and evenings.

22:03

What's your other job? I'm an

22:05

engineer at eBay. Really? Yeah.

22:09

But you know, it's a very expensive town

22:11

to live in. I should have bought three

22:13

years ago when I started doing it, but

22:15

I didn't. I waited. Now it's kind of

22:17

like I'm racing to catch it, but I

22:19

will never catch up now. So how

22:21

long have you lived in the Bay Area? That's another

22:23

little twist to this story as well. So

22:26

I actually live in Colorado, I

22:29

fly here for my job and I

22:31

have, I rent a place with

22:34

my brother. So while

22:36

I'm here, I'm making money on my

22:39

spare time so we can buy that house. So

22:41

how often do you get to see your wife? I'm

22:43

going home next week. So I'll go home

22:45

Wednesday morning and I'll come back Saturday night. I

22:49

do that about every other month. Do you

22:51

have children? Yeah, I got four. You

22:53

have four children? So I was

22:55

thinking, I was like, gosh, when do you see your

22:57

family? But your family is not here, so you're

23:00

free to work. Yeah, exactly. But

23:02

yeah. How long

23:04

do you think you will be doing this? I

23:07

told my wife I wanted to move this

23:09

summer. So I was like, we'll just

23:11

find something, wherever it is,

23:14

like just rent in the interim. But

23:17

like for sure next year, I want to find something

23:19

to buy. And if not, then

23:21

sorry eBay, I'm gonna go back to Boulder. As

23:26

we talked to drivers over two days, it

23:29

became clear that all of them are

23:31

in some kind of transition. Uber

23:33

was no one's plan A. Hello.

23:37

Hello ladies. How are

23:39

you? Doing good. This is

23:41

Mudin, Madden. He started

23:43

driving after nursing school didn't work out.

23:46

I was unsuccessful on that. I

23:49

tried it twice. I couldn't

23:51

make it. So this is the only choice,

23:53

past money, because I wanted

23:55

to do something and be

23:57

something. Yeah, you said, what did you

23:59

say? say money? P- P- Fast. Fast money.

24:02

Yeah. And where did you grow up?

24:05

Uh, actually I am from Nepal.

24:07

Uh huh. Yeah. I studied

24:09

abroad there in college. Oh, did you? Yeah.

24:11

Oh wow. I lived in, uh,

24:13

Chhabil, outside of Kathmandu. No way!

24:15

Yeah. It's, it's so nice

24:18

to meet, like, you know, American

24:20

people who have visited Nepal because

24:22

they have much more broad idea. They

24:25

are like, like, you know, most of the

24:27

American people, they don't visit outside. Yeah.

24:30

But it's really nice to meet someone who

24:32

has already visited Nepal. Yeah. Oh.

24:35

And why did you choose to come to the U.S.? Oh,

24:37

because my dad,

24:40

he is uneducated, to be

24:42

honest, and he's a farmer. So

24:46

he was thinking more like, you

24:48

know, his children should not be

24:51

depending on palm and stuff.

24:53

So basically he

24:55

didn't want his son to

24:57

be, you know, like him.

25:00

So yeah. When

25:03

did you first come to the U.S.? I came here when

25:05

I was 18. 18. Yeah. So

25:07

how many years ago was that? Uh, it was,

25:09

I, I've been here almost six and a half years.

25:12

Okay. Yeah. What do you do when

25:14

you're not working for fun? Um,

25:18

I basically don't have any life. I

25:21

either drive or

25:24

sleep or cook food. What

25:26

do you cook? Uh,

25:29

it's called, uh, um,

25:32

bao. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

25:35

Yeah. I know. Anna, right?

25:37

Yes. Oh my goodness. Interesting. Like, you

25:39

know what I'm talking about. You know,

25:41

it's funny. This is, um, when

25:44

I was there, something about

25:46

the, I was the student

25:48

with women and men. And for

25:50

some reason when we ate dal baht, which is

25:52

dal and rice, it's like when we ate dal

25:55

baht, um, all of the

25:57

women gained weight. And so. started

26:00

calling it a bot

26:02

butt because we

26:05

were all gaining weight

26:08

in our hips. So

26:10

that's what I think about when I think of

26:12

salve butts. That is so funny. I

26:15

love it. Yeah.

26:19

Do you think you'll like, when you think about your

26:21

life in like 10 years, what do you picture? Like,

26:23

what do you hope for? In

26:26

10 years, I think of

26:28

myself having a business. What

26:31

kind of business have you thought? Probably gas

26:33

station or, you know, something

26:35

that generates money. Yeah. Yeah.

26:38

Why did you want to be a

26:40

nurse when you were thinking about calling it a bot? Because I

26:44

really wanted to help people so

26:46

bad but I

26:49

guess, you know, I chose

26:51

the wrong career. Maybe,

26:53

you know, I didn't know

26:56

how to learn, right? So,

26:58

or maybe I don't know what

27:02

was the worst part I did to,

27:04

you know, to be unsuccessful in school.

27:07

You know, since I didn't become a nurse,

27:09

I think the lady that I'm going to

27:12

marry with, she's going to be a

27:14

nurse for sure. And she's going to help our

27:17

community out. That's what you

27:19

like. Yeah. You're on the market for a

27:21

nurse. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm

27:24

going to get married with a nurse from Nepal.

27:29

When do you think you'll get married? Probably

27:32

planning this summer. This

27:34

summer? This summer. Like in a few months?

27:37

Uh-huh. Have you met, do you know who you're

27:39

going to marry? No, I don't know. It's

27:42

strange but I don't know who it's going

27:44

to be. Yeah. So, right now, are

27:46

your parents, are they like talking

27:49

and trying to find potential partners

27:51

for you? Yeah. How

27:55

do you feel about that? That's

27:57

soon. and

28:00

like you know what they say

28:03

is parents are always experienced people

28:06

yeah so they know what they are doing do

28:09

you think your parents have a good marriage uh-huh they've

28:12

been married for well

28:15

i don't know what to tell you because

28:18

my mom she left me

28:20

when i was high because

28:25

you know it was a situation where she

28:27

had to choose between

28:29

keeping herself safe versus

28:32

being with us so

28:34

she chose to leave family

28:37

you know how

28:39

like in napalm like

28:41

we do not they do not have

28:44

like moments do not have

28:46

that much rights yeah if they

28:48

do have appears so like you

28:50

know if i was in napalm

28:52

i can do whatever want beat

28:54

her you know more like domestic

28:56

violence like the men can do

28:58

whatever the man wants to do

29:00

yeah so she chose to leave

29:03

family and then

29:07

just for the sake of her children my

29:10

mom more like she chose her

29:13

own sister to get married

29:15

with my dad and that

29:17

way you know my dad is happy

29:19

because he wanted to get double married

29:21

like uh-huh they are really not satisfied

29:23

with just one woman oh i see

29:25

yeah and um do you

29:28

have a close relationship with your mother oh not

29:31

really because i haven't seen what she looks

29:33

like oh you haven't seen her

29:36

since i haven't because like you know you're you're

29:38

you're afraid of your dad like what he's

29:40

gonna do because i mean i

29:42

really respect my dad but i hate him

29:44

too because he's the one who

29:47

brought us up here because you

29:50

know no neplys can think to

29:52

come to america it's it's very

29:54

expensive like for capital

29:56

city people it's not that big

29:58

but for us from rural side,

30:02

it's more like, you know, dream to go

30:05

to America. So I respect my dad for

30:07

bringing us up here. But I

30:10

also hate him because we hadn't

30:12

seen our mother, what she looks

30:14

like. Yeah. Yeah.

30:18

And then, but you feel, do

30:21

you feel nervous to get married? Oh,

30:25

kind of nervous and excited. Yeah.

30:28

Yeah. Is it your father

30:30

who will pick out your, your wife? What

30:32

kind of husband do you think you will be?

30:34

Do you think that you will, do

30:37

you think you'll be the kind of husband that your

30:39

father was? No, definitely not.

30:42

Because once you get married, like women

30:44

should be respected. And

30:46

that's what I think. Like once you get

30:48

married, you should be good with it for

30:50

the rest of your life. Yeah.

30:53

If things don't work out, then

30:55

you really need to solve it.

30:57

But getting married and bidding

31:00

up the women, it's

31:02

really not the thing. It's not being a man.

31:14

I am so glad that you did my

31:16

podcast. I appreciate it. That's

31:18

good. Thanks also to

31:20

Ahmad, Matthew, Evelyn and Jeremy,

31:22

as well as Ana, Mufti,

31:25

Rizwan, Sherrod, Emiliano and Charles

31:27

for letting us get into your car with

31:29

microphones and for the ride. This

31:32

episode was produced by Katie Bishop

31:35

and me in 2017 with help

31:37

from Emily Botin, Jillian Weinberger and

31:39

Andrew Dunn. Death, Sex

31:41

and Money is now produced by

31:43

Slate, where our team includes Andrew

31:45

Dunn, Zoey Azulay and Cameron Druze.

31:48

Daisy Rosario is our senior supervising

31:50

producer at Slate. Alicia Montgomery is

31:52

Slate's head of audio. Our

31:54

scene music is by the Reverend John

31:56

Delore and Steve Lewis. And

31:58

if you're new to the show, welcome. We're

32:00

so glad you're here. You can find

32:02

us and follow us on Instagram

32:05

at Deathsexmoney and you can find

32:07

my newsletter at AnnaSale.Substack.com. You

32:10

can also reach out to us

32:12

anytime to tell us what you

32:14

think, ask us questions, share a

32:16

story. Our email inbox is Deathsexmoney

32:18

at slate.com. We love hearing from

32:20

you. We gave

32:22

out Deathsex and Money stickers before we

32:24

got out of the car each time.

32:26

I think Evelyn was the most into

32:28

it. Deathsex and Money. Deathsex and Money.

32:30

The money part I like. But

32:34

that's later on. I

32:36

know I want to meet my lord, but not yet.

32:46

I'm Anna Sale and this is Deathsex and

32:48

Money. I

33:09

want to thank you for listening and for

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get access wherever you

33:56

listen. Thanks. What

34:00

does the future of abortion look like in America? It

34:03

might look a lot like the past. Over

34:06

50 years later, I still don't

34:08

know exactly what happened to me.

34:10

I'm Susan Matthews. We're telling

34:12

the forgotten story of the first woman ever

34:14

to be convicted of manslaughter for getting an

34:17

abortion. It's always women who have the abortion,

34:19

but it's always men who make the law.

34:22

That's slow burn, Roe v. Wade.