0:01

this podcast is brought to you by hand

0:03

it it's , lot more than

0:05

the world's most popular cognac cognac

0:07

is out here celebrate in the people who never

0:10

stop the people who never set the

0:12

people who are chasing great and

0:14

above all above people like chest

0:16

[unk] icon maurice ashley who

0:18

became the world's first black grandmaster

0:21

and nineteen ninety nine he sharpened

0:23

his intellect like a sore and

0:25

reached new levels of really levels

0:28

every really

0:30

your limit tennessee never

0:32

stop never visit tennessee dot com to learn more about

0:37

recent twenty one season

0:44

important for this podcast comes from chief

0:47

chief is the network of the most powerful

0:50

women in leadership joint

0:52

chiefs co-founder is caroline child or and

0:54

lindsay kaplan as the host the new

0:56

rules of business a podcast

0:58

have into today's most complicated leadership

1:01

challenges where there is no playbook

1:04

running playbook company has never been

1:06

more complicated on the new rules

1:08

of business caroline and lindsay speak

1:10

with world renowned academics and leaders

1:12

to tackle the issues that executive face

1:14

today subscribe today the new rules

1:16

of business wherever you get your podcasts your

1:19

can also apply to become a member of chief achieve

1:21

stock

1:26

moonwalking to decoder, nilay patel editor-in-chief

1:28

of verge and decoder is show

1:31

about big ideas and other problems

1:33

today what's

1:40

do some history instead in

1:43

october 2006 google buy youtube for

1:45

1.65 billion dollars,

1:47

january 1st, 2007

1:49

brothers, hank & john green started

1:52

making videos for each other and share them publicly

1:54

on youtube that's the same year youtube

1:57

world of his partner program with

1:59

shares revenue between egypt

2:01

and the people who make videos sweats

2:04

fifty five forty five saver

2:06

of the careers the ,

2:08

program basically watch the creator economy

2:10

as we know today and there are tons

2:12

of businesses that have sprung up on youtube

2:15

we've talked to a number of you tubers on the show they

2:17

will tell you that being a youtube or is a very

2:20

specific specific and

2:22

while some easy verse make serious additional

2:24

revenue on a platform by doing branded

2:27

in sponsor in a lot

2:29

of creators can say smart and sustain

2:31

themselves on had money they get directly

2:33

from the to partner program there's just

2:36

enough money flowing through

2:38

that system to let system happen because

2:41

of that that money you to is

2:43

the gold standard for freighters it's

2:45

something we've heard in every creator conversation

2:47

we've ever had on kotor if you can

2:50

make it big on youtube to

2:52

make big of a career that's not

2:54

the case on other platforms there's no revenue

2:56

share on instagram there's no revenue share on twitter

2:58

isn't revenue on twitter most

3:00

importantly there's no revenue share

3:03

six asked instead no something called

3:05

a creator or shares a

3:07

fixed pool of money about a billion dollars

3:09

a of all the creators on possible

3:12

that means as more and more craters to that ticked off

3:14

everyone gets paid by understand

3:17

the concept it's basic division now

3:20

as you'd expect from one of the original

3:22

and most successful you tubers and creators

3:24

out there hank has and very strong

3:27

opinions about platforms and how they pick

3:29

creators in addition to being an individual

3:31

creator himself he's also the ceo

3:34

complexity fifty person

3:36

company if it makes educational content about

3:38

science history in our that's

3:40

about twenty youtube channels and parker for

3:42

wasn't for the you to add money none

3:44

of those shows that exist because you to still has

3:46

that big fifty five forty five split

3:49

of all ad revenue so in february

3:51

hank made a video about why the tic

3:53

toc creator fund is a really

3:56

bad deal for creators why

3:58

the youtube model is still super here

4:00

is it happens i was right around the time i was talking

4:02

to you tube see product off a certain your mohan

4:05

on dakota and i asked him

4:07

when you to would switch from a craters fun

4:09

who the ads what model on you tube sorts

4:12

which is it's tic toc competitor confirmed

4:15

that a new moto seizure model for forces in the works

4:17

in the greatest one was just a way for the company to develop

4:20

and refine the metrics it needs to

4:22

properly attribute the money to creators

4:24

videos

4:25

the was ruled out

4:27

that's we said after that

4:29

episode of neo came out one of hanks friends

4:31

tweeted as him that he should go under

4:33

current talk about so think about it himself

4:35

on the show that's how long it's

4:38

wheezy honestly it's pretty deep in our feelings

4:40

about participating in the internet culture

4:42

economy and the relationship between

4:44

huge passed on companies and the

4:47

communities that build on that's

4:49

a good one and it's important i think it's not

4:51

something any of us talk about in hank

4:54

green creator and see if complexity

4:57

evidence

5:10

green courtesy of complex least

5:13

as a very popular in a traitor welcome to

5:15

the terms that thanks i

5:17

listen the all the time the time a lot from the

5:19

conversations you have so thank you for having don't

5:22

get ready for the org chart questions when they come

5:24

in oh i'm know i've i've been thinking about it and i'm like

5:26

i don't i feel satisfied with the

5:29

, answer answer is also

5:31

true that you are our first guest who has

5:33

a effectively invited himself on the show in

5:35

a tweet so i appreciate that then the whole

5:37

history yeah it was a friend of mine who

5:39

has like hank you should use why haven't you have and on

5:41

dakota and i was like please

5:44

like , it worked but don't mind if i do

5:46

so we had interviewed a new one who is the chief

5:48

product officer of youtube you talked about his creator

5:51

fun for youtube sure it's tiktok has a crater

5:53

friend you are very opinionated about

5:55

creator friends i hate them there is that's

5:58

the whole show everybody a it's been two minute

5:59

we're in a run at five ads now

6:02

and that's , also not only to

6:04

hit them they're very bad and everyone should hit them with me

6:06

all right great sense or twitter works right

6:08

steps promoters decoder we'll see next

6:10

week i target on assessed by

6:13

you are a businessperson you don't have

6:15

a long standing business a stable

6:18

business on the shifting sands is

6:20

a crater in an ass over my consisting years

6:22

so i was going to have her start

6:24

with complexly what is complexly

6:26

when it would are your goals with and something like complexly

6:29

complexly is a are educational

6:31

media companies that is focused on

6:33

making things through the internet

6:35

and making them available through the internet and and thus

6:38

also available to everyone and available

6:40

for free free making that

6:43

media as good as

6:45

what you might see on television

6:47

or being sold to schools

6:49

by bigger you know atticus music

6:52

atticus and that's tough and there's

6:54

certainly stuff that those big companies do that

6:56

we don't do but with the only way that

6:58

it felt like we could compete in that world was kind of

7:00

to just like make it put it out there

7:02

and if students like it if teachers like it they'll

7:04

use it and and if they don't and they won't and that's

7:06

the whole thing and it's so it's a tricky

7:09

business to put together and and have a like it's very

7:11

diversified path is a nice

7:13

were saying are we can't make it work without

7:15

are trying like a different things at the same time

7:18

but you know it's got a couple of if

7:20

you really big youtube channels and really

7:22

big their podcasts ah and us

7:24

and the majority of what we do monsters no

7:27

other social media stuff at the

7:29

it's ten years on now and it's

7:32

bacon and work ah they're definitely days

7:34

when i feel like somebody should just come

7:36

out of the woodwork and give me ten million dollars down to

7:38

worry all the time but that's not business

7:40

i guess business where you at man there

7:42

are billions phone or and as i did

7:45

i listen to this podcast right yeah right mean

7:47

that soon as soon as idea yeah and then they

7:49

want to be on it and talk about their or try to debate

7:52

the whole process has been some you have

7:54

actually had slipped a company for you he started

7:56

votes on with your brother whom we were

7:58

it was the conference recruiter the footage

8:00

to viacom was that process like for years

8:02

that's when you do again i mean that weirdly it was

8:04

the second company i sold our the first on

8:06

with savable which we saw the patriarchy is basically

8:09

that exact same thing pitcher and that except we had no tech

8:11

bomb so am i liked has to sign up you

8:13

had to email someone and be like might be like a platform

8:16

and that was wonderful was wonderful

8:18

easy project to merge those two

8:20

companies together glad we did at viacom

8:23

same was much bigger and more complex

8:25

and i had to be really thoughtful about it and and

8:27

it's always been something that something have like in

8:30

a moment in was ambivalent about

8:32

remain ambivalent about even ambivalent mean

8:34

less him before now that add this been two years of pandemic

8:36

and pandemic would we would have gone bankrupt times

8:39

during that period or if or if hadn't

8:41

been a larger company behind it and what that was

8:43

one of the reasons why we so badly want to do it we felt

8:45

very vulnerable to the world

8:47

and not not wasn't thinking of pandemic specifically

8:50

but just any instability when

8:52

you base your entire business

8:54

on three days in the summer

8:57

that's scary so

8:59

we so we thought i initially thought they're going to sell to

9:01

a conference company was like some company that runs

9:03

conferences will run this conference but then i realized

9:06

that if we did that that company would be trying to run

9:08

the conference to make it the most profitable

9:10

thing whereas a media company

9:12

is gonna be running it to make get the

9:14

coolest thing so that they look cool concept

9:17

were not like a big piece of via comes

9:19

budget over of that com that is

9:21

the game for events and media companies a trader

9:24

yep and that seemed like a way better

9:26

outcome than having somebody trying to squeeze every penny

9:28

instead try to create a really cool event where they

9:30

look good and they met make connections

9:32

and you know they get the put their executives

9:34

of in the states but like in ultimately

9:36

like you have to make the conference really

9:38

good in order for it to do is this the

9:41

is that that your actual objective is a good

9:43

conference rather than profit that

9:45

adding onto the so she companies are you like

9:48

the news and have some gives you a million dollars a

9:50

like and so and some point

9:52

in block off into the sunset no

9:54

i don't like the sunset assets

9:57

are terrible have you ever looked at one really sister

9:59

so ugly the i'm i'm a worker

10:01

and i like to do stuff now that there's

10:03

a often times i have ceilings where

10:06

i wish i had time to do other work

10:08

that i don't currently have time to decide i do think about

10:11

that and i think about like how do i create

10:13

these distances so that they have great leadership

10:15

and and am i doing enough of that

10:17

mentoring or enough of like that systematizing

10:20

my own brain i instead of like

10:22

being light that's how much easier if i just do

10:24

the work and an onset help

10:27

other people do other work but i really like

10:29

what both of my companies are doing right now

10:31

and right feel really good about them and it's hard

10:33

but it's certainly don't think about acquisition

10:36

for for those companies i think about you

10:38

know how do i get great leadership to support

10:40

me superiors and somebody kind of questions

10:43

how many people that these companies

10:45

the have to be able to as are like a committee that helps

10:47

creators create great products and sell

10:49

those products to their communities is

10:51

about safety and are you know

10:54

the majority those are on warehouse side and

10:56

then there's like out support and then product

10:59

development and kind sports and

11:01

then are complex is that fifty people to which

11:03

has spread across a bunch of different shows

11:05

up people are mostly focused on individual shows a

11:07

complexly there's some people who sort of jump between

11:09

teams

11:10

focus on complex li every

11:13

, do whole are descended on march and logistics

11:15

and is a print on demand scrotum

11:18

salva has to die it's why

11:20

do i know so much about any of that

11:22

as not my intent but do

11:24

not answer this was addicted or murmur

11:27

store is t of tps yeah vox does

11:29

work with us you think so go by an email

11:31

t shirt and i'll help us with that the

11:33

premise that the center and semester

11:35

the reality other i'll be awesome if both

11:38

awesome citizen complexly fifty people

11:40

he said massive are focused on initial simms has

11:42

it's such an era

11:43

a lot of our editorial said the words

11:46

that come are people's mouths is

11:48

his contract based so would

11:51

crash for a specifically like wheat we'll be

11:54

teaching a course on chemistry

11:56

and we'd so like you're going to be making

11:59

a course of the course of year on chemistry

12:01

you don't need to hire a chemistry a writer if

12:03

you're going to fire at the in a that year so

12:05

it's a lot of extra contractors

12:07

be doing fact checking syllabus

12:10

stuff course design and bachelorette in

12:12

of the thing and then we have sort of an editorial team that

12:14

i'm no sooner to turn smart

12:16

, words into kurdish forces and

12:19

that's similar to how it works of runs i show

12:21

similar to how works over an eon switches are

12:23

like prehistoric world class class

12:26

and you to jump and

12:29

, like those shows sort of like live in their worlds

12:31

they usually have a person who's in charge of editorial

12:33

who's not necessarily writing most of the stuff but his

12:36

add to it during their management of

12:39

contract people and then there's a production

12:41

team that is in charge

12:43

of actually turning it into something pretty

12:46

and at prosperous the

12:49

graphics are actually outsourced to her company

12:51

called thought cafe in canada who are amazing so

12:53

we don't have to figure out how to do all that though

12:55

it's a lot like you know you look at our pie chart and

12:58

the second biggest piece of the pies contractors after

13:00

employees and , we

13:02

house like a person who is

13:04

in charge of the by content

13:06

for the whole company company then a person

13:08

is in charge of the editorial for the whole company so

13:10

like the all of those of who

13:13

are on different shows report to a person

13:15

who's in charge of editorial and then on the production

13:17

people are reported to the reported

13:20

had and it's you know

13:22

it's pretty close together i didn't think hard

13:24

about how org structure works i didn't listen to enough

13:26

decoder honestly forest if it's nothing

13:28

business i was using her see how to run

13:31

errands make up catholic muslim

13:33

and like half the time muslim and changed from think of sense

13:36

which is really interesting overtime

13:38

to i am a i just for the table just

13:40

server would like get a refresh is a real

13:42

thing that comes monza ah yeah we've

13:45

never done that or maybe we haven't

13:47

we just rationalized as i

13:49

, there's a lot of that but often see as it's

13:51

known wants admitting any center set family doctor

13:54

ports to u c l

13:56

complexly i think fives so

13:58

had of content had of action the

14:01

ceo wow the charge i

14:03

guess they try reports to ceo

14:05

then my assistant in the chief of staff

14:07

can an added you manage your this

14:10

is like the hardest thing for me right so

14:12

i've i've a big management

14:14

business function that as to do is enter and

14:16

see susan and as the in individual

14:19

craters on the show another says all times

14:22

and i find context

14:24

switching between those two things to be almost

14:26

impossible i need a full day

14:29

of just like walking around walking around circle the

14:31

reset my brain injured or the other things

14:33

you make a lot of stuff right

14:35

i would say your james webb space

14:38

telescope tic toc is one of my favorite

14:40

pieces of in our content from the to assert their

14:42

that was fun and you're just like really excited he

14:44

was like in the moment and straight be ugly head i

14:46

make it that i'm assuming like your

14:48

ceos

14:50

like yeah we got a business deal i gotta

14:52

talk to about yeah in this had to wait

14:54

like how do you manage that split a nasa time

14:56

i don't suffer have much in

14:58

switching i find that makes months

15:00

i'm in a meeting i'm in the meeting and

15:03

then if i can keep my fingers on his twitter

15:05

that i'm in i stay in the business and

15:07

then once i'm out of the meeting and

15:09

i'm an unscheduled time than i

15:12

had to sort of slip into creative mode

15:14

and you know when that might be unproductive

15:17

creative mode where i'm gag i try

15:19

not to yell at somebody on twitter that's

15:21

, switched over to that by the way i used to

15:23

that time used to be yelling at people on twitter now it's

15:25

trying not to death which is great i think that

15:27

that's a huge a huge step forward for me would

15:29

i recommend by the way as i have a slight sounds like

15:31

see friends where he tweet the things at each

15:33

other and so swim and her surrogate the

15:35

i think which of my youtube her friends would most like

15:38

this city twists methods of of

15:40

know that that video actually i did

15:42

while my wife was out of town and

15:45

i was like of like with my son and he

15:47

was on a he was eating as one's watching

15:49

gets this

15:52

, a great idea for a tick tock gives a schedule

15:54

your on schedule time oh yes see of

15:56

a block and encounter that right i'm in ago

15:59

the masses

15:59

to track the actually like thursday

16:02

with his wild and on the i don't get you anything

16:04

on thursday unless something's

16:06

the ad

16:07

then i have , afternoons

16:10

which your little the cotton into have to be honest this

16:12

is a for illicit trade of worship threat

16:15

threat and i have a that there are several other periods

16:17

of my week were usually there's

16:19

like four hour blocks and

16:22

then right now actually next week

16:24

i don't have that because as because bunch of stuff

16:27

for years a classic together questions when

16:29

you came on to answer is been added

16:31

for fifteen years he got to companies

16:34

whether the shifting sands platforms how do

16:36

you make decisions

16:38

i mean is a monster different kinds of decisions

16:40

i mean you gotta balance your stakeholders and

16:42

for me i'm really

16:44

lucky and that like the first stakeholder

16:47

or oh by had there were two as

16:49

my brother some making the salon together

16:51

in like two thousand and seven and then the

16:53

people who were watching it and that was

16:55

it you know i wasn't even really one for there wasn't

16:58

enough , involved at that point and

17:01

so to have the audience be a primary stakeholder

17:03

com and just have like my brother be kind of the most important

17:05

member of the audience was you know

17:07

that you know right when at least oftentimes

17:10

i will i will be in a meeting and people be confused

17:12

about what we should do and will be extraordinarily obvious

17:14

to me because like i'm thinking

17:17

well you know it doesn't matter what

17:19

that person wants or what that advertiser

17:22

once or whatever like if it's not it's

17:24

like the audiences if we're gonna lose credibility

17:26

with those people if we're gonna like not have

17:28

their support and respect for in of

17:30

a less of their support and respect after this

17:32

than before it as way

17:35

more than anything any mistake we could

17:37

possibly make or any it's relationship

17:39

with an advertiser so that is

17:41

always are the primary touch points for for decisions

17:44

unless it's family

17:47

financially

17:48

well unless unless my wife is like

17:50

you have not seen your son and for this athletic

17:53

dynamics and smith addison yes

17:55

and eight on area that the family

17:57

cause there's cause there's boss of all as

18:00

there's no you tube or is and if we don't report

18:02

directly to the family you get west

18:04

like i don't have the same assassins

18:06

out here a family is

18:09

serious yeah there's i would

18:11

say there's an underlying too much and we're into that

18:13

i'm saying is you the right to

18:15

to be more complexly you're always on channels

18:17

it all you to money to spend about

18:19

was already come from oh gosh no sabia

18:22

it's a huge piece i think probably maybe

18:24

up to a third of our money come straight

18:27

from you tube about are we are

18:29

of are and we have channels that are mostly

18:31

supported by merchandise we've

18:33

channel that are mostly supported the crowd funding we have

18:35

channels that are mostly supported they

18:37

crash course for example is crowdfunding

18:40

you tube money it's ah director

18:42

ad sales that we sell in grants

18:44

like the end and like there is no

18:47

piece of that that could go away we

18:49

can still make the show and crash

18:51

course i think probably the biggest pieces

18:53

crowdfunding

18:54

it's a third of a company's revenue comes from youtube

18:57

is that going up busy going

18:59

down could you walk away from you tube know

19:02

culturally and economically i could not walk

19:04

or since to play at high ah it's

19:07

still a bit like saying would you walk away from america

19:09

and for me you know it's like they're sent there's

19:11

things i very much don't like about it

19:14

but i and i feel a little like a citizen

19:16

and that if that would be such big

19:18

decision to make for me culturally but in terms

19:20

of money now also now yeah

19:22

monetization like just add sense is really quite

19:25

powerful and we get a lot

19:27

of use and a lot of money comes in from those

19:29

views and there aren't platform stitch share revenue

19:31

like that i'm and there's also like it

19:34

a lot of our traffic comes from

19:36

the youtube recommendation system a lot

19:38

of our traffic comes from search and

19:41

there aren't a lot of platforms that are you know

19:43

driving a lot of traffic to video with search a

19:46

outset of youtube so the fifty five

19:48

percent as a big deal that's fifty five percent

19:50

of the revenue split so you get fifty

19:52

five percent of the add money and youtube forty

19:54

five or so yeah i like it was that

19:57

there's a lot of companies out there that would not at work without

19:59

the [unk]

19:59

they push on citizen of he tude for a minute

20:02

yeah please it a big idea

20:04

but there's you tube a company

20:07

which is not benign it's a company

20:09

and as motives as

20:11

ceo is also true i will

20:13

i will say that this is also true of other

20:15

countries it's not

20:18

like to hear me you don't get a vote

20:20

out

20:21

susan we just eat like she's not have youtube

20:23

she's got to deliver a revenue line

20:25

to google shareholders and turn to

20:27

alphabet roll it's very complicated youtube

20:30

community are

20:33

you a citizen of the youtube community or

20:35

the youtube come? or visit both

20:37

at once how does that feel for you i think

20:39

that it's impossible to disentangle

20:41

them

20:42

i think that a lotta you tubers think

20:45

of themselves as part of the youtube community and not

20:47

have you tube the company i am you can

20:49

do that in your head you the my hat have that be that

20:51

a separation the you making your had my not think that it's a separate

20:53

and exists in the real world you know

20:55

you eat a you tube community is based on

20:58

the youtubes algorithms which is based on youtube

21:00

to smile i wouldn't be the first person

21:02

to live in a place where i don't

21:04

get to vote for the leader and

21:06

i'll probably the the vast majority of

21:09

the scientists for free democracy or that somewhere

21:11

and also like there are levers which

21:14

is why it like with at what i'm thinking about it like this

21:16

it's you know you say okay don't get to vote out

21:18

says which is he but what are the levers that people

21:20

have and lights people who work for you to have

21:22

a lot of power over susan people

21:25

who make content on you tube

21:27

have some power advertisers have

21:29

power over susan my thera lovers the people

21:31

pull and have pulled that and

21:33

you know you just freezes must it with instagram i don't know

21:35

when this gonna come out but ah instagram

21:37

getting a tremendous amount of pushback of over sort

21:40

of like having that at the

21:42

the street

21:43

i

21:45

can great asset value and instagram

21:47

like we're , sorry for

21:49

me yeah but else so there are other there

21:52

are it's just like kim kardashians the isn't isn't

21:54

oligarchs of instagram basically

21:56

who who has enough power to influence

21:59

and and so like oh power structures and if go

22:01

of course i'm you know who this there

22:03

are many ways in which you did not a country at

22:05

for example i can leave whereas and be obe

22:07

citizens of countries can't leave them easily

22:11

you , but i do try and like recognize that and

22:13

myself an awesome almost a little bit indulge in it whereas

22:15

dislike i have to accept the

22:17

i live a lot of my life and this is the

22:19

you know i'm more this way the most people but like

22:21

this is the key for a lot of people will have a lot

22:23

of our lives in these places that are

22:25

corporate autocracies and like that

22:27

is our choice and the fact

22:29

that it is our choice is the thing that gives us

22:32

freedom from the feeling of being in an actual autocracy

22:34

because we can choose to leave the like my businesses

22:37

chances to least for that's kind of also okay

22:39

you know in the same way that like my business couldn't

22:41

choose to leave my town we're

22:43

like many people's business couldn't just leave at home so

22:47

you know i know i i try and understand

22:50

the gravity the

22:52

significance of that relationship which

22:54

i think is bigger than most people think it is

22:57

both in terms of business and in terms of our

22:59

acts like our attention which is the only thing that

23:01

we have

23:03

we'll take a quick break the want to combat

23:06

has to talk about the to deliver them

23:14

that said his receive my

23:16

cleavage company is reinventing email and text

23:18

marketing for he commerce business owners clay

23:20

the of it's creators makers and doers back

23:22

in control them are thing with an easy to use

23:24

data driven pass on the does exactly what it

23:26

says the liver simple personalized

23:28

email and text messages to customers it's just

23:31

the right moment helping you make more money

23:33

is quite be out your build better relationships with your

23:35

customers by engaging and exciting it

23:38

started for free at k l a

23:40

d i y o dot com slash box

23:42

today this absurd decoders received

23:45

by hennessy well as popular contacts

23:47

in the world for hennessy living well mean

23:49

celebrating the trailblazers who came before us

23:51

to hennessy partner was inspiring people who spend

23:54

their lives taste and greatness their

23:56

stories redefine was possible as you're willing to

23:58

hustle and grind it was

24:00

just legend maurice ashley he

24:02

can be isis from jamaica and spent his afternoon

24:04

sharpening his skills in speeds as icons

24:07

in brownsville brooklyn that determination

24:09

and dry skin of years later when ways

24:11

actually became the world's first black chess grandmaster

24:14

the story is inspired so many others

24:16

shows a greatness is always we're striving

24:18

for the news your own pursuit of greatness

24:20

with hennessy once remind everyone out

24:22

there to never stop and never sent is

24:24

hennessy dot com to learn more about

24:26

maurice ashley when he went plus

24:29

please enjoy response

24:33

well the

24:35

just before the break you said something

24:37

i want to focus on will that he said that algorithm

24:39

chefs sex the community

24:41

and i think every you tube creator

24:44

i've ever talked to his were found at

24:46

their core right

24:48

the distribution platform and the whims

24:50

of the distribution platform the directly

24:53

affect what they make and you

24:55

you can see it i'm a recent

24:58

that example like bad breaks

25:00

philosophically bad example his views

25:03

on johnny depp amber heard cover

25:05

the skyrocketed since and so like hundreds

25:07

of channels with videogame channels

25:10

suddenly pivoted toy live courtroom reaction

25:13

channels to get themselves my

25:15

partner programming monetize a half

25:17

in an explicitly said in the morning about of

25:19

making bitter committees yeah that dynamics

25:22

is not obvious the audience

25:24

i think the like how do you see where you going

25:26

to part is he from one time and how do you see a play out

25:28

as a dozen algo change in the group

25:31

text was up in it's like we're all gonna make

25:33

train video say like sits

25:35

, it's better to imagine instead of like a

25:37

change happening within you tube and c

25:39

c like assist but like it's

25:42

easier to imagine ah

25:44

when you look at two different platforms that have

25:46

different algorithms they have different form factors

25:48

they have to france start dates

25:50

like they came around to different moments in time and

25:52

all that stuff tremendously impacts

25:55

what kind of stuff gets made with the culture

25:57

of the platform is how the creators behave

26:00

the creators incentives arm so like it

26:02

goes back to mcluhan right it's just like the medium

26:04

is the message and like in this case the

26:06

algorithm is of really important part of

26:09

the mediums so the thing that

26:11

gets created is going

26:13

to be the thing but succeeds like isis

26:15

that we can't say that pressure to there is something that

26:17

people will make even if it's successful something's

26:20

not right to assess but

26:22

like what we can say is that things

26:24

won't get made if they don't succeed and

26:26

if they do it doesn't matter because no one seemed so

26:28

what gets created and and like the vast

26:31

difference between what a television

26:33

show is what a facebook video

26:35

is what a youtube video is what a tweet

26:37

is when a tick tock is what an instagram

26:40

or real is like these things

26:42

are very different from each other like

26:45

what succeed on those platforms is different

26:47

even it in the case of like vertical sizable

26:49

video which is it the seems like the same

26:51

medium on these different platforms like very

26:53

small changes you know have

26:56

huge impact and so like that i think

26:58

the difference between a youtube video

27:00

and a facebook video is like as

27:03

different as the as the difference when like a tv

27:05

show on a youtube video the get

27:07

into the weeds or it like you

27:09

are in the broadest fresh right

27:11

at like a science you tumor yeah

27:14

sometimes you tube love science

27:17

other times it's like we're all everyone

27:19

dress up like elsa and sad elmo in the heart

27:21

like a little weird things happen

27:23

on you tube suddenly gather he's a nobody

27:26

yeah to like predicted are understand

27:28

even the people inside of you tube yeah are

27:30

often surprised of the algorithm has decided

27:33

is trending , best young i

27:35

think that they worry about about

27:37

the send a lot of time be like one is ever seen

27:39

doing stuff for you know like i covered

27:41

tuck in business that's the thing

27:43

business that's to do because we have our

27:46

own site of no wonder the traffic

27:48

from our site comes from any platforms including

27:51

google so we have some pressure there but

27:53

we're like this is the thing we make any audience will come to

27:55

us directly and that's great i'm

27:57

it feels like for craters on platforms are

27:59

that

28:00

un be a science you to bear the other

28:03

people wanna be tech youtubers or

28:05

beauties rivers and sometimes youtube

28:07

is like yep the audience will come to you for that sometimes

28:10

like know the ice is going somewhere else in your business

28:12

will collapse mechanically

28:15

for you how is that expressed because

28:17

i see autism

28:19

it feels like you need to figure out

28:21

how to disentangle yourself from the algorithm

28:23

some extent cf have like it's great to have

28:26

deeper relationships with the individual people

28:28

if you've also feel like there's two things at work one

28:30

is the decisions of human beings which is the

28:32

only and put that algorithms gets and so

28:35

you get a higher click through rate year

28:37

video will do better and that click through rate

28:39

is not been determined by the algorithm it's been determined

28:41

by a human be like a bunch of human beings

28:43

making decisions and so he so he

28:45

know it as with all content creators

28:48

forever i guess alec magazine covers

28:50

aren't like this you know you you

28:52

have to market your content somehow and

28:54

you do it on youtube with title and thumbnail on

28:57

tic toc you do it with you

28:59

know like figuring out how to hook people said

29:01

that they will watch for a little while and then give them enough

29:03

of a reward they'll cut the like button or at

29:05

least sinister video without swiping

29:08

so like you have to be aware

29:10

of the things that the

29:12

algorithms probably taking into account

29:14

which is like click through rates and wants through time is almost

29:16

all of it tough on you to assess

29:19

and then you have to have to create kind of no

29:21

actually inspire those actions but there's

29:23

the second thing where if you tube doesn't

29:25

know what your spouse's it can't

29:28

figure out who to show it to to get

29:30

the higher click through rate because there are you

29:32

know there are a lot of different kinds of people my

29:34

signs that something should everyone in order

29:36

to get a three percent clicker it my signs that years of

29:38

being so to people who are more likely to

29:40

click on science videos and that is what's

29:42

getting that click through rate higher than like point five percent

29:45

but if if you to doesn't know how to find the people

29:47

who will like your content that's

29:50

a failure of you tube that a youtube

29:52

failures on a content failure it's a hard problem

29:54

to solve that like what it does is it reinforces

29:56

existing audiences and making counted

29:59

for existing audiences then when things

30:01

like amber heard johnny depp mess

30:03

happen the algorithm will identify

30:05

and do group of people but you really need i'm a pretty big

30:07

critical mass to create that or

30:10

you need a lot of time or you need to spin

30:12

off from some other group and it's harder

30:14

for you to because they get waste your data points than

30:16

than tic toc which you know you

30:18

you probably watch you know twenty tic tacs

30:21

the my time you spend watching one youtube videos that's just

30:23

more data

30:24

assuming all this right you have to

30:26

have this pretty analytical logistical

30:29

some of ruthless brain if

30:31

you you know what did algorithms

30:33

want you know the platforms want you know the

30:35

economics of a platform are with

30:38

the innovative society paid i see

30:40

him and then yes we had credence

30:43

yeah but then in you particularly have

30:45

to manage fifty people through that process

30:47

ah like how do you communicate out here's

30:49

other stuff i know what the platform in house and from the content

30:52

to cities

30:53

that hard and like also if it's important

30:55

to not think that that's everybody's jobs

30:58

we actually have an easier time writing

31:00

a great episode of sideshow

31:02

than we do marketing a great episode of

31:04

sasha and it's like that the title is

31:06

what the you know you guys seven hundred words crept in the titles

31:09

five the seven words and it's

31:11

like the fat by far the most important

31:13

work and cigarettes the interplay between

31:15

a thumbnail on a title way you can have them sort of talking

31:17

to each other or like oftentimes

31:20

my editorial team don't want to tell

31:22

people what's in the video in the title

31:24

the be like here's what's in the video here's what you're gonna get

31:26

and i'm like well now and only

31:28

the video like they are they don't feel like they need

31:30

the video because they feel i tell ya

31:33

okay i got that information that i under i got through

31:35

the headline and problem and and all

31:37

headlines through the headline i now that enough information

31:39

ride on me to consume their contents inside of the headline

31:42

so trying to figure out the way to

31:44

get people's people will

31:46

confused almost without making

31:48

the believe something that's not true as a

31:51

on the big problem like a headline can be true

31:53

but it can make some the believe something that's not true of ethical

31:56

line that we have internally at the company that

31:58

if people are being misled by headline and because

32:00

former people going to be the headline that i'm gonna watch the video

32:02

the title i guess what it's called i'd i'd

32:05

paid back in the day i didn't make youtube videos i

32:07

wrote words sump yeah sneezing

32:09

and willingness and cigarette in some indexing leads he

32:12

asked the so we don't want every person

32:14

the company to have to be worrying about that now

32:16

we do want writers be thinking about how to market the videos

32:18

when they're writing the script we're in a pitch

32:20

at least like is this pitch marketable

32:23

and you know i like to be entered meeting some time so that i

32:25

can be like how as cool

32:27

that's cool thing about the universe but like who

32:29

cares success

32:35

with deaths and deaths and it's signs

32:37

of make videos aragon only gonna get hundred thousand views

32:40

but the the way that i can talk

32:42

about marketing content is i will do it

32:44

and then i'll do a case study or i'll look at somebody else

32:46

in i'll be like hey like to to an editorial

32:49

team or something of like looks how this person solve

32:51

this problem exists is a really complicated

32:53

idea to get across in the title and a thumbnail like

32:56

what's actually interesting about this

32:58

topic and he did it by

33:00

x strategy and

33:03

in a while i love that stuff i guess like my

33:05

one of my favorite parts as being uterus trying

33:07

to figure out how to keep the click on your videos without

33:10

being a bad person how i

33:12

i'm always into into doing

33:14

well worse as such as journalism for

33:16

me on that note is that some has chosen

33:19

a zero sum game like everyone's

33:21

gonna add publicize owners you

33:23

the i make sure to pick my in early

33:26

as like real people her release national

33:28

sovereignty is provided summers you feel very zero

33:30

sum the do you think about

33:32

other science you to resign resources your

33:34

competition the storm

33:36

a community with you with that relationship like

33:39

we don't we're all like

33:41

we're all friends a hum

33:43

vs the the only people that we don't like

33:45

are the ones who are lying a little bit

33:47

or cheating a little bit in some way so

33:49

they might make headlines that are kind of gd where

33:52

they might like make their videos

33:54

by doing copyright infringement that we couldn't

33:56

get away with or their videos

33:58

dislike subtly the researched

34:00

and so the like that information

34:03

that's the to the on people that we don't like there's

34:05

like i'm in in the sort of educational

34:08

youtube or community there is

34:10

some drama there's

34:13

also a tendency that like it's very hard

34:15

to get them to work together so it's very impressive

34:17

to me when people do get them to work together because

34:19

they're just so smart that everybody thinks they

34:22

know the right way to do everything with

34:25

the who i get out and out and way

34:27

slightly different but like you know we

34:30

get together and play board games and nom art

34:32

dumb and you know have

34:34

have further the last ten years

34:36

and when there's new people who come up like they

34:38

like invariably if like

34:41

the test is like it does your content

34:43

inspire and a maze and to lights

34:46

and is accurate and if that's the case

34:48

like that that there seems to be very little barrier

34:50

once the algorithm decides that like people are

34:52

gonna see at my best that's the hard part but

34:54

once people start seeing it and other

34:57

youtube or started thinking oh my gosh that's interesting

34:59

it seems to be like quite an open

35:01

place as long as you're not being

35:03

manipulative her misinforming people

35:06

maybe the third time even

35:08

mention the algorithm is sort of like an external

35:10

force that will make a decision and

35:12

picking up on that because n n a mentor a lot of craters

35:15

you make a lot of videos about the platforms

35:17

the nature of the platforms when

35:20

young creators come creators you for gotten some

35:22

intercept when intercept talked and something like

35:24

that they really do see the algorithm

35:26

some external force

35:29

the might bless them or not

35:31

and i'm always gonna like yes but

35:33

no right way gets there's a part of it

35:35

it's in your control how do you development

35:37

it is very yes but now and i think that it's

35:40

you know can be very hard when

35:43

the problem isn't the algorithm

35:45

which is our our and and often the case like

35:47

it's me you know it's just that the the

35:49

hook isn't hooky and ass or

35:52

the hosting isn't snappy enough

35:54

for something and are in others

35:56

it is it's extremely crowded

35:59

out there though that's tough

36:01

but we usually when i'm like haven't won conversations

36:04

with creators it's because think the contents very

36:06

good seth so the

36:08

main thing there is like you know it's it's

36:10

it's gotta be obsession and

36:12

it's sort of sucks that it has to be obsession

36:14

but like year obsessed

36:16

with the difference between

36:18

a three point nine percent click through rate enough four point

36:21

oh click through rate like you just the

36:23

going on about that you're thinking about

36:26

you know your know your your to like ratios on tic

36:28

toc you're thinking about like what was different

36:30

about this video why did this one pick up

36:32

and it off and eye contact ah the constraint

36:35

be magic like i think the

36:37

i think the tic tac almost intentionally

36:39

introduced as random as into this ah

36:41

how it from it's contents because it like

36:43

gets people

36:45

more addicted randomness is

36:47

you know your brain brings her to figure it out and so

36:49

it's like creates false

36:51

narratives and so a you

36:53

know like that the that the thing though is

36:55

i how do you select great topics and

36:57

then it's also how you deal

36:59

with success witches something

37:02

that is is easier to talk about because

37:04

it's it's more transferable from person to

37:06

person whereas successes so different

37:09

you know ten years ago than it is now i

37:11

don't have experience i don't know what it would be like to try and

37:13

start

37:14

one of things i've noticed an epidemic

37:17

i just don't that know is like these jobs have become

37:19

very public but very lonely you

37:21

know you're like in montana says you've always been some

37:24

rest is that like three

37:26

years ago salman abedi newsroom like

37:28

publish a hit like a big school they

37:30

get i'd walk into the newsroom among

37:33

people with no and they're like a little bit of a feedback

37:36

loop even always entrance ramp now mine now

37:39

it's like you're the won't make

37:41

yours alone at not like many people

37:43

in these industries creative industries are is how

37:45

it alone at home get same

37:48

as online and anyway for your

37:50

laptop lead and yourself alone

37:52

as yeah it's a weird thing that

37:54

is happening right now we're so when

37:56

your time dealing with success is it

37:59

there's nary a flat weird agents and lawyers

38:01

who come to you is it suddenly strangers

38:03

in a dissects to back and of every video

38:06

and be weird about you or is

38:08

it

38:08

it's still going to field on me because that to me

38:10

is the weirdest part of this entire moment yeah

38:13

i mean it's it's all of those things one

38:15

of the hard parts of being a

38:17

creative entrepreneurs that you have to both be

38:20

ambitious but also balance

38:22

it with like something healthy so

38:24

i dunno like an ambition can be healthy but ambition

38:26

is usually early in a career

38:29

it comes from but there's like a little bit [unk] chip

38:31

on your shoulder there is like trying to prove yourself

38:33

there's trying to be more successful than

38:35

this person you think sucks the like

38:38

there's a lot of kinda dirty fuels that

38:40

burn pretty hot and and that strives

38:42

a lot of people and i certainly use them so

38:45

i try to talk about it in those terms but

38:47

also that there has to like if you

38:49

go all in you have to be

38:51

able to come some out and

38:53

whether that's like six months later or whether

38:55

it's every day it's think it's better

38:57

for it's to be every day where you have pieces

38:59

of why you think you matter

39:01

and your identity that are not connected

39:04

to one hundred thousand people

39:06

loving you who you've never met the

39:09

what are the things that you're diversifying

39:11

into that still bring you joy

39:13

and still make you feel valued then

39:15

i think that entirely gov is what i'm lucky to

39:17

have lived in montana this whole time where of

39:20

my friends don't care that much and what

39:22

we talk about is like i went about

39:24

work and then they went about the processor

39:30

and it also like it it puts into perspective

39:32

you know that

39:33

like i got a psycho reebok will things going on

39:35

so i can feel good about it without

39:38

comparing myself to other creators who

39:40

are maybe getting more views per video i'm

39:43

you know at but like my friend who

39:45

is that

39:46

baker mean i was wearing about bakery

39:48

things and i'm worrying about click through rates

39:50

and like that's just life like some people

39:52

worry about bakery things in some people worry about you

39:54

to person

39:56

this perfect answer gonna break as when a comeback

39:59

when eternal

39:59

at six o'clock

40:08

hey everyone mrs clinton under me producer

40:11

on decoder and this episode is

40:13

supported by compiler and original

40:15

podcast from red hat

40:17

comes to you from the makers of

40:19

command line heroes and it's hosted

40:21

by angela andrews and point seminal

40:24

as listeners of this been a cast you understand

40:27

have strange and complicated the world

40:29

of tech can be well compiler

40:31

tries to unravel those industry topics

40:33

trends and deep seed questions about

40:36

tax through interviews with people

40:38

who know he passed

40:39

on compiler you will hear a chorus

40:41

of perspectives from the diverse communities

40:44

behind the code as they tackled big

40:46

questions in tech like what

40:48

is technical debt and

40:50

what our tech hiring managers

40:53

actually looking for and do

40:55

you have to know how to code to get started

40:57

in open source learn more

40:59

about compiler at red hat dot

41:01

com slash compiler podcast

41:04

and listened to the podcast on apple podcasts

41:07

or anywhere you listen to podcasts

41:09

hey everyone to his creighton i'm not be producer

41:12

here on dakota

41:14

running a business is hard

41:16

in your employees concrete all sorts

41:18

of interesting issues

41:21

like getting complaints because someone

41:23

stealing lunches

41:25

or that person who refuses

41:27

to her head

41:29

and one series complaint against your company

41:31

can turn your whole world upside down with

41:34

bambee you'll be able to solve conflicts

41:37

without sacrificing the workplace culture

41:39

you've strived to create bambee

41:41

is an outsourced hr solution

41:43

tailored to your business's specific

41:45

needs for just ninety nine

41:47

dollars per month you'll get access

41:49

to your very own dedicated hr

41:52

manager the real us

41:54

based person offering h your

41:56

expertise and a personal touch

41:59

there are available

41:59

the phone email and online messaging with

42:02

bambee on boarding and terminations

42:04

can run smoothly your team members

42:06

can reach peak performance and your business

42:09

can stay compliant with changing hr

42:11

regulations plus with bambee

42:13

h r autopilot you'll automate

42:15

important hr practices like setting

42:18

policies training and feedback

42:21

they can save you

42:22

labor cost since hr managers

42:24

cost over eighty grand a year

42:26

schedule your free conversation today

42:29

to see how much bambee can take off your

42:31

plate visit bambee dot

42:33

com slash and decoder right

42:36

now spelled b a

42:38

m

42:39

the he he

42:40

dot com slash decoder

42:43

that's bambee dot com slash

42:45

dakota

42:52

but how to protect our just before the break your

42:54

time my views on your videos

42:56

you're on the show because if you tweeted a

42:59

greater funds and tic

43:01

tacs economics are set up as

43:03

up as sum game there's

43:05

a six part of money the billion

43:07

or so dollars

43:08

they distribute to the creators and perform isn't

43:11

courteous and that's all the money

43:13

and the prefers i was a growing like a weed didn't

43:15

and that means a passing science while you made a very

43:18

long video about us anchorage have a go at it you

43:20

did he was it good job or summarizing and so good

43:22

has told him it's insists division it's

43:24

like yep i

43:26

, like this audiences are in some pretty i like

43:28

there's a six lot of money and more people are getting the money and

43:30

amazing suarez yeah but you're on tic

43:32

toc i would say like i've

43:35

seen more and more as you enter talked

43:37

over time because it's time because

43:39

like easier to make we the cost

43:41

of to talk production is so much lower how

43:43

are you thinking about that balance between platforms

43:45

are easy metics those

43:48

to talk about tic toc let's talk first about

43:50

instagram because i think that instagram sustaining

43:53

his instagram never shared revenue

43:55

with creators are as has as stunning and like weird

43:57

little temporary ways are some

43:59

and there's never been like youtube whereas

44:02

like bring i create a stable economic

44:04

ecosystem where you know how much you are making

44:06

and you are making them money based on solid

44:09

effectively we can sell ads against her consent what

44:12

that it is is it created a to an instagram

44:15

were in order to have a viable business

44:17

as instagram creator you had

44:19

to do it as a person

44:22

who's gonna be good at doing brand deals and

44:24

so like instagram kind of created the brand

44:26

deal a little bit ah and that was

44:29

the way that you could be a professional instagram

44:31

or in a sense as sticks can you explain

44:33

when and brando's for people sure a

44:36

a brand like lori l comes to you

44:38

and says we want you to talk about our shampoo and

44:40

your and your tic toc were in your instagram

44:42

post and ah and it's dislike

44:44

a , of getting on advertising impression

44:47

that connected to the credibility ah

44:50

and the authenticity of authenticity creator what

44:52

that created was an ecosystem we could

44:54

only be a procession on the ecosystem

44:56

if you were good at selling

44:59

certain products and that

45:01

meant that eat that instagram became focused

45:04

on lifestyle and beauty content and

45:06

aspiration or contents not because

45:08

there was anything intrinsic to instagram

45:10

about that kind of content but because

45:13

that was the economic incentives like

45:15

you had decreed as personal contents of people would

45:17

want to have a life like yours so that you could sell

45:19

them shampoo that seems like a huge

45:21

miss to me that they were like if you had

45:24

created a platform where you could make money doing

45:26

lots of different kinds of things like say youtube

45:28

dead then you would have a much more impactful

45:30

bigger deeper cool

45:33

interesting platform now that i know thing and

45:35

i can stream is cool interesting as like especially

45:37

as a most of the things that are going on to

45:39

on instagram that are interesting though don't make any money to

45:42

doc is is interesting in that it could

45:44

see saw that it was like okay why

45:46

would we share a portion of our money with

45:49

creators his instagram

45:51

figured out how to do it without sharing anything

45:53

i think the reason is does it say that is because you're

45:55

screwing us of over you're saying like only

45:57

certain kinds of content that are good at selling stuff are going

45:59

to be economically viable in your platform why

46:02

at the same time brandy was are

46:04

working very well on tic toc and

46:07

so you know i don't know if that's permanent

46:09

and i i it it also seems to be that it doesn't

46:11

need to be as aspiration oh it doesn't

46:13

like it's not needing to sort of like a rest

46:15

on you want my life it can

46:17

be more like we have the same laos

46:20

and so trust me but you know

46:22

the reality is people are make him plenty

46:25

of money i to making money like that

46:27

not at this like purview level anything the lights

46:30

the amount of money you make on you tube by people

46:32

are figuring out how to make it work on tick tock

46:35

tick tock gives the creator instead of money

46:37

to give them attention and just

46:39

figure out how to turn that into gin and the money and

46:41

a lot of kinds of content though still

46:44

aren't that good at that so you let

46:46

the platform is limiting itself only to

46:48

content it's good at at helping people

46:51

sell things for other people for

46:53

for themselves if they're you know if they're big enough to sort

46:55

of create their own product then i did a that's

46:58

very limiting for the platform and i think is very

47:00

bad for creators because it means that the

47:02

the kind of content it's it's not just what

47:04

successful it's also what

47:07

i can be turned into something that's monetize

47:09

the you make money from to

47:11

the know but i do the

47:13

main way i have made money from tic toc is that

47:15

i have a sock subscription

47:18

and the success and you're gonna get a pair of

47:20

socks delivered every month see a designed by different

47:22

in have been an artist that that we decided

47:24

to collaborate with and our

47:27

the princess from the cycle goes to charity so

47:29

i don't make money but about the saw club has

47:31

donated over a million dollars to charity and and

47:33

tic toc has been the biggest piece of the marketing

47:36

of the soccer so i can

47:38

see that conversions com like

47:40

that i saw a pretty good at converting so

47:42

i get that but i'd assists success

47:45

of you tube just leads me to believes

47:47

that the savvy moves this

47:50

to share revenue rather

47:52

than create these static

47:54

tools but that's a very hard

47:57

message to sell when you have

47:59

gone from losing money every year

48:02

to just printing cash

48:04

to say like okay we're printing cash

48:07

we're going give away half of it

48:10

that's a hard sell

48:11

that i very much hope that you tube does for

48:13

that pressure on by having that relationship

48:15

with shorts which is just exploded as well

48:18

like my shorts are doing but of them attacked us really

48:21

the shorts or modified by a creator front

48:23

sorts aren't currently basically on monetized

48:25

so yeah their mother has they create are fun but but for

48:28

you tube sources on monitors there's no advertisement

48:30

running on shorts the shortest a whole that they're throwing

48:32

money into right now so to

48:34

to me i'm like okay from give us the creator fund is

48:36

better than sharing us fifty percent of nothing

48:39

but the moment you too

48:41

wanted it's monetization product for shorts

48:44

has to be soon rec swab

48:46

you have you have kind of relationship with the to the me

48:49

i ask him questions thirty

48:51

five com people lawyer out an answer

48:54

yeah and and it's ground into dust

48:56

in the answers nothing five out niels answer on

48:58

the stock s was really good though he really like straight

49:00

up like we will share avenue on shirts

49:03

at the same way we share of in one everything else

49:05

but eight known as having i do it the i

49:07

spent a great idea news great any news

49:09

or as i was going up said that like he gets

49:11

a sack of years has the thing

49:13

the you can just promise the next thing

49:15

forever tix i can say that because

49:17

you don't have the thing

49:18

what do not ah yes they don't have a smidgen

49:21

adsense like model the chairs reading like that they just

49:23

have a crater fund use you've already has

49:25

the model everyone wants to think it's the modeler

49:27

the technology that's the problem like what's the

49:29

difficulty of launching the thing they're heading

49:32

for you see what's her easy to say we will extend our

49:34

current advertising model from

49:36

regular easier to sorts the

49:38

problem to solve their is it's

49:41

not pre roll credits in between swipes

49:43

video right cf to figure out who's responsible

49:45

for the to the impression so there's a little

49:48

bit of a technology and business and politics problem

49:50

there but like not unsolved because

49:52

you can just expand the things you already have

49:54

yeah

49:55

they can work this way and you've got the

49:57

pre existing understanding and everyone

50:00

that some huge percentage of the money coming and

50:02

will cost that everyone includes

50:04

again might also that shareholders

50:07

who know that easy result this way and

50:09

so extending the model for them to talk right

50:12

they just have a child chinese corporation

50:14

the know and can lead pierce the veil of my

50:16

brother say some meant but they can't necessarily

50:19

be like

50:20

the changing our revenue model so that sixty

50:22

five percent of every incoming dollars and goes

50:24

out to crit like that's a big change

50:26

right so you're saying it's harder to sell for

50:28

the shareholders more than it's harder to

50:30

sort of build the product or yeah

50:32

like spot a size the best comparison i

50:34

can make actually which is they can central

50:36

but as the same problem isn't like

50:39

every dollar a pain to satisfy most of it goes

50:41

out to artists or record labels

50:44

surfaces and and

50:46

songwriters in whatever but my younger than there ever

50:48

in they're chasing increasing margins

50:51

by doing such as valuable house on valuable cipher they

50:53

don't have that economic relationships

50:55

isn't but then on the flipside sort

50:57

of flipside also as huge

50:59

shareholders in the record labels were shown

51:01

huge trump's a satisfy any

51:03

got a legal regime in this country

51:06

where they're like regulated into having

51:09

to pay certain amounts of licensees

51:11

for music in certain ways and like creators

51:13

get none of their like we go to

51:16

like that that's law whereas that

51:18

tic tacs problem is can you get

51:20

shareholders on board with the idea that this would be a more dynamic

51:22

long lasting ecosystem if we

51:24

are pay creators and it not just

51:27

sort of like put the burden of monetization on them

51:29

but also do some work to actually

51:32

pay them more than like you know point zero

51:34

zero zero zero cents per

51:37

yeah but like i know in

51:39

over the course of the past many years you

51:41

have made many videos relax you

51:44

tube is done for x then youtube

51:46

a like change like my joke

51:48

is at their life cycle was ever use humor

51:50

it's an inflection point where they make youtube

51:53

video of him and they are you tube sit back

51:55

and that's where i everything changes they

51:57

be some software like unless world like that

51:59

is when it happened with my youtube is

52:02

responsive to it's creative community you think

52:04

takes off his responses to screw to me that my

52:06

and i don't realize i think that they've

52:08

got some pretty big profit like the in

52:10

other responses to big big creators

52:12

big big big big greatest like instagram says responses

52:15

to a kardashians for example like a huge problem

52:17

they have the stats moderation is really

52:20

automated and there's very little recourse

52:23

see i for i've had friends who had channels with over

52:25

the accounts with over a million followers that

52:27

just lost there's no recourse

52:30

like it's i hate green could not

52:32

the

52:33

seven very egotistical but

52:35

like i had contacts inside they talk

52:37

and i was like what can we do

52:39

for this person in there like with a person who handles

52:41

that does not take my calls like

52:44

a the i'm not allowed to talk to them i think

52:46

that there's just not enough infrastructure built up there

52:48

it feels to me more like the relationship

52:51

between facebook and creators were it's sort

52:53

of like you know they're going to do with they're going to do

52:55

and i think that maybe the

52:58

concern is like if you give creators a little bit

53:00

they're gonna expect more and more and more and more so just

53:02

let them deal with us as we exist

53:05

and you know if we hear something that seems like a good

53:07

feature change will take that feature we won't

53:09

like say that we responded to the creator communities

53:12

and like that more like

53:14

imagine us as a black box and

53:17

not made of people and that

53:19

that people don't make these decisions it's tic toc

53:21

ah that makes these decisions and and i think that some

53:23

most creators think about i don't think about it as

53:26

a group of people

53:27

the don't lawmaker viable hedge against

53:29

you to my think i know a lot of haters who think

53:31

okay the audience is moving the set

53:33

up the platform certainly are terrified of the audience

53:35

humans to talk but economically

53:38

it doesn't seem like a viable heads or

53:40

a sustainable or stable hedge against i'm

53:42

in a heated

53:43

what do you mean by hedge we in early

53:46

results are diversifying a revenue streams so

53:48

i think like petri on is a viable

53:50

had run against the instability of you

53:52

tube right so for a creator is

53:54

tic toc a viable heads okay yes

53:57

ah you know i

53:59

i think

53:59

creators are often super aware

54:02

of the fact that like that that they are in the

54:04

attention game rather than the money games

54:06

and that that's more what motivates most

54:08

of them anyway certainly what motivates you

54:11

at the beginning before any money as there so

54:13

i think that in that way it is like it's certainly

54:15

and attention hedge if it's not an economic

54:17

one better same time like i even

54:19

after the you know to plus years

54:22

of being a tick tock are like a straight like i'm

54:24

a tick tock are now i do

54:26

not feel like it's a stable

54:28

place and i feel like it's would have to be interesting

54:30

to me as i when does it happen when is the moment

54:33

of self awareness arise and enough people

54:35

cause this happens every platform i am i'm ruined

54:37

like the relationship between twitch and streamers was

54:39

just so beautiful and loving

54:42

and rosie and everybody was so

54:44

happy about every decision

54:46

that which made and then like at some point or says like

54:48

fox has happened and

54:51

i remember that happening with you tube do like we love

54:53

you tube early on like there was never any drama

54:55

between you two when you tubers in the beginning and

54:58

i think that you know it's been interesting because it

55:00

isn't really when creators start to feel

55:02

that way it's when audience to start

55:04

listening to them about it's because right now you

55:06

can make a tick tock about how annoying you

55:08

a nord you are by some decision to talk made boneless

55:11

the audience is like gonna watch that instead of the

55:13

next thing that they could immediately swipe to than

55:16

seven hundred i think it's not gonna get any views the

55:19

degree to talk the mechanism to set up the

55:21

swipe actually insulate to talk

55:23

from that kind of criticism babies

55:25

you have a relationship with youtube or somewhere that you'd

55:27

might not have a relationship with her daughter's right

55:29

i think that it does until tic toc

55:32

starts to experience like in

55:34

the audience his head isn't all

55:36

positive thoughts and

55:38

you know right now i think that the vast majority of people whose

55:40

tic toc statistics for them as like an upstart

55:44

like what a surprise what a delightful

55:46

little place without any

55:48

idea of how big by dances you know i

55:50

think they get a thing that tic tacs this tiny little sudden

55:53

a sudden couldn't companies that is

55:55

fighting the big dogs

55:58

and bet that's like it is like an underdog story anna

56:00

enough you'll really good and so it's sort of like well

56:02

you know given given time given

56:05

given some slack they're like tic toc are tiny

56:07

little company essence this essence this you

56:09

know that i don't think anybody like a fairy

56:11

it would be very weird for because like you know

56:13

you don't have any other interactions with by dances

56:16

at american

56:17

the do you think of yourself as a citizen

56:19

of tic toc his usefulness of a talker are

56:22

you a citizen of to talk with your system abuses yeah

56:25

totally is it was if you different

56:27

feeling many easier yeah

56:30

it feels are much more

56:32

surface level like to talk

56:34

for example will send you a

56:36

two hundred are flower arrangement they

56:39

will not talk to you about when you

56:41

whether your friend's account got cancelled you

56:43

know anything , they may be cutting

56:45

back on us a little bit that are still hit for a lot of their six

56:47

bucks lag was out of hand like our i

56:49

got my hike i was like my wife was like you need to tell

56:51

them to stop sending stuff stuff

56:55

that everybody dislike i i don't know we'll see if

56:57

it happens again that this this christmas but

56:59

dislike cakes and skateboard deck skateboard

57:02

hoodies and boxes this dislike specific

57:05

company that does not have to make money businesses

57:07

that's without any kids like this is accompanied still

57:09

taurine a burn says and maybe

57:11

will be forever in the burns's i

57:14

don't think that tic tac isn't the burn face anymore and

57:16

i also think that like spending thousand dollars on dollars creator

57:19

that's making them hundred thousand dollars is

57:21

dollars great deal for them like if they can sensibly flowers

57:24

instead of sharing revenue the a huge win

57:28

this is my second question to

57:31

talk is by dance by dances

57:33

by dances company i know i've done this

57:35

i just realized in this conversation the

57:37

people i know a tick tock who are going up with new the conversation

57:40

i just want to say i'm sorry this

57:42

is how i feel i would love i

57:44

would love to not feel this way i would love

57:46

to seal like you have the capacity

57:49

to take on that the the sort of complexity

57:51

of the challenges you face and i would love to feel

57:53

like you want to support

57:56

creators the same way the you tube does that i don't

57:58

feel our

57:59

the

57:59

the difference in like citizenship feeling is

58:02

here

58:03

but i do feel like i love the tiktok

58:05

community hugely like this

58:07

is where it's complicated like there's so

58:09

much creativity and there's so much air

58:11

there's so much light in the forest where there isn't

58:13

any on youtube so much opportunity

58:15

to get discovered and that that

58:17

means that the the diversity of science creators

58:20

his head and shoulders above youtube

58:23

younger it's more female it's more

58:25

of color it's and like these are just

58:27

people are making like people want content from different

58:30

kinds of people and like

58:32

i have love that and i also

58:34

love like just how culture just fricking happens

58:36

like it's a huge driver of culture it feels

58:38

it and like i am happy to be on it

58:40

i i have a lot of concerns about it and and i

58:42

think that that's definitely a citizenship

58:44

thing to not sort of like accept

58:47

the place where you are as the way that

58:49

it will always be

58:50

the usual say but the that to receive craters

58:52

think it feels like you tombs

58:55

algorithms have like settled

58:57

in there like middle aged six hundred

58:59

number that are forever what are you inject

59:01

into an algorithm to turn it into a twelve year old

59:03

again like that's we gotta figure that out yet

59:06

like the only to have midlife crises yeah it's

59:08

de sac recommendation algorithm on easy

59:10

beats like by convertible yeah

59:12

be young again young again way to get really

59:15

into modeled frames this summer

59:17

i heard you on way form with mortars and

59:19

i saw to mark as well as to do we see this to you

59:22

tube sinks that are videos

59:24

recent and ninety seven percent men in

59:27

and we look at the actual stats

59:29

in the tech industry and nim like

59:32

seventy percent of purchase decisions

59:34

in sacramento when the

59:36

i know based on the actual money

59:38

that is spent the women are very

59:40

interested in technology and even

59:42

like make content for them and then you run into this

59:44

like crusty old youtube algorithm

59:47

there's something very certain it's ways yeah that's

59:49

like only does yeah and tic toc

59:51

like just doesn't have the keira it's or to hasn't

59:53

develops the rigidity and

59:56

on us fire stuff as anybody see what will happen

59:58

and that was that out

59:59

read make

1:00:01

dynamic seems like the opportunity

1:00:03

but also feels like a very big story about

1:00:05

how culture works right now

1:00:06

yeah and it's also very interesting because

1:00:09

it's a different question will you watch this

1:00:11

vs will you click on this and i think that we have biases

1:00:14

about ourselves and about what counted as for us and

1:00:16

our own minds to and i think that deciding

1:00:18

to click on our technology review video

1:00:21

or a science video might be

1:00:23

a very different decision than whether i will watch it once

1:00:25

it starts playing so there is difference

1:00:28

there as well but yeah that mean when

1:00:30

i think about this i'm going back to

1:00:32

previous woman in the conversation i think about like how

1:00:34

to cook is structured for creators it's just so

1:00:37

designed for the user not

1:00:40

designed for creators it's like do it so

1:00:42

optimized for the best possible

1:00:44

experience of the user which is now like

1:00:46

it's starting to walk back from that a little bit because

1:00:48

like yesterday put more advertisements and it's

1:00:50

time to control things a little bit more said that he can

1:00:53

not be and burn mode forever and

1:00:55

youtube did this to tv you know it was a much better user

1:00:57

experience the tv and it out spent the last ten

1:00:59

years china i create systems that actually

1:01:01

make it like not just pure candy

1:01:03

land you know we will promote

1:01:06

whatever stuff does well even if

1:01:08

it's extraordinarily destructive to society

1:01:10

and , least space you know his face open

1:01:13

for somebody who's comes along with an set

1:01:15

of features that is even

1:01:17

better for users and

1:01:19

and even sort of more it easy and sunday as

1:01:22

we had my about you tube in there algorithms

1:01:25

had a work in access you tube and i

1:01:27

might have there's a levers influence to see

1:01:29

if you tube and they've grown and

1:01:31

we satellite about tic tac as black box where

1:01:33

most important elements of to talk is about

1:01:35

box is at its own by chinese company that has

1:01:37

some element of control of the change

1:01:40

enable dispute that actual mechanisms

1:01:42

control but like it's there was something

1:01:44

there and there's reports of data being shared

1:01:46

seller as a as door this morning about the chinese

1:01:48

government asking for a propaganda account that wasn't

1:01:50

labeled as a propaganda accountant and youtube

1:01:53

and ticked up being like and we we

1:01:55

have to we have to push back against us but like it's

1:01:57

that the conversations are happening you know do

1:01:59

this

1:01:59

you ne pas what participating the special

1:02:02

yeah i guess the thing that gives me the the

1:02:04

most it makes the most important and

1:02:07

i don't know if i'm doing the right thing i felt this way

1:02:09

about youtube to some extent like that there

1:02:11

was a time when it felt very values

1:02:14

neutral or even values positive the create

1:02:16

youtube videos and then there was a time when it's ico the

1:02:18

spot on this may be like i don't

1:02:20

know every day whether this is does more harm

1:02:22

than good and i feel that

1:02:24

way about all of the social media platforms

1:02:26

language with but the that

1:02:29

the that but this is different

1:02:32

and i don't know

1:02:34

like i don't feel like i have the expertise

1:02:36

to know how different it is

1:02:38

and i don't i also don't get the idea that anybody

1:02:41

like i don't think that one thing that i will say is

1:02:43

that i seem to we all underestimate how

1:02:46

powerful these possums are guide

1:02:48

think that's generally they don't

1:02:50

leverage that power for much more

1:02:53

than increased revenue you

1:02:55

know i think that the best actors out there try to

1:02:57

use that power to sort of like

1:02:59

barry misinformation can only

1:03:01

think that's think that's of the work that they do but almost

1:03:03

all of that is how do we get people to stick on our platform

1:03:06

ensure the morass so just of money

1:03:08

motors but like if there's

1:03:10

a motive beyond that there's no

1:03:12

reason why it couldn't be used for the motive

1:03:14

beyond that whether that is to create division

1:03:17

or create sticks certain narratives

1:03:19

and people's heads or to

1:03:21

make people sort of just more chill

1:03:24

i get his face was done research on

1:03:26

on the fact that they can make people happier were

1:03:28

more sad by what they show them and

1:03:31

they're also like facebook there's been trying to

1:03:33

optimize for more connection which i don't

1:03:35

know that they successfully have ever

1:03:37

done but like that's a weird

1:03:39

thing optimized for ipad it's a weird amount of power

1:03:41

for like ten people to have yeah this

1:03:43

is the weirdest thing about

1:03:46

our current society that we don't think about a lot

1:03:48

is that as a huge amount of power being

1:03:50

held in the hands of like a board and

1:03:52

a ceo and you know maybe

1:03:54

a couple of people around the ceo

1:03:57

and add in be know on

1:03:59

some what agonist tix foreign

1:04:01

government and that equation and it's

1:04:03

the order of magnitude creepy and

1:04:06

you know more worrying so i don't i

1:04:08

don't know how to how to interface with that and i you

1:04:11

know my my hope is that like i'm not actually drawing

1:04:13

people onto the platform but i'm reaching them with

1:04:15

good stuff on there but like i i

1:04:17

think that that's weasley do you think that

1:04:19

you have to be there to that's where the audience is going

1:04:22

i honestly don't think

1:04:24

about it that way i use the platform

1:04:26

because i find it very compelling

1:04:28

to use i get up a lot to answer this question

1:04:31

that would seem a little bit less troubling

1:04:33

but ultimately i think that we are all

1:04:36

kind of chasing just emotions

1:04:38

and sopa mean and and like i like

1:04:40

to i'm trying to be honest with myself about that

1:04:42

and like the audiences there's

1:04:45

certainly that's a component of it not like i just it's

1:04:47

really fun to use it does seem way

1:04:49

more fun making to the instant

1:04:52

feedback loop read yeah i also

1:04:55

like i was it's weird because i have also have a novelist

1:04:57

and stuff like that sick the full gamut

1:04:59

cells that a lack of my work on this for three

1:05:01

years and know if it is the at him and it's going to be six

1:05:04

months done this before anybody

1:05:06

you know and he consumers these it's versus

1:05:08

a tick tock which is like or a tweet the

1:05:10

i like suit like them most instantaneous like

1:05:13

i went from on idea to feedback

1:05:15

on it in you know less

1:05:17

than five seconds know this now think we sat

1:05:19

on all platforms twitter is never had anybody a dime

1:05:21

a well for all sorts they they have also never

1:05:24

pay themselves the time or the sheriff obsess

1:05:26

like ultimately if if you believe

1:05:28

that like people act rationally economically

1:05:31

motivated no one should tweet with only

1:05:33

disasters him before you and you'll never make any

1:05:35

money and yet like the whole media industries

1:05:37

i got sweet and there's like twelve people who

1:05:39

have made money from their tweets assistance

1:05:41

like this doesn't none of this makes sense

1:05:44

if you're one of the see creators who can go

1:05:46

off and start your own little perform

1:05:48

davis is on his see of memory

1:05:50

streaming service anybody want to invest

1:05:52

your your big enough audience still think

1:05:54

like us through it and we've and these algorithms

1:05:56

behind him and own to make my own thing and you

1:05:59

pay me to bucks a month

1:05:59

bird and costs

1:06:01

that's not an or the thought about in the and

1:06:04

sense but like i don't think that there's and there's

1:06:06

a nus like would have to make content for a

1:06:08

system quite tired but

1:06:10

i do i do find that model

1:06:13

very interesting and i hope that it's a

1:06:15

big part of the future seeing

1:06:17

creators make stuff that sort of

1:06:19

like in between the quality of a youtube

1:06:21

video on a television show because it's on a streaming platform

1:06:24

aziz and like make that work and

1:06:26

, that sort of the

1:06:29

different things that can exist that couldn't exist

1:06:31

otherwise because of that that

1:06:33

great and i think that nebulous a

1:06:35

like probably that iguana when

1:06:37

elvis not deem standout version

1:06:40

of that but like that

1:06:43

complexly

1:06:44

there

1:06:45

always like been a when we have these numbers and

1:06:47

savage said this and a meeting that acts that we

1:06:49

are impact focused and so like

1:06:51

we would rather make a little bit of money from a lot of people

1:06:53

than a lot of money from a little bit of people so

1:06:56

that's the reason why not

1:06:58

too but lake diversification feels

1:07:00

very good and also being but a mixed if

1:07:03

you couldn't otherwise make still very good and also

1:07:05

there's a bunch of all my company want to do stuff we can't afford

1:07:07

and be good or max has and i

1:07:10

want to embrace how he met the sox by the

1:07:12

as well as question here you said

1:07:14

he retired

1:07:15

i think about what

1:07:17

you've done with his build it as a stable

1:07:19

business on the shifting sands of these

1:07:21

platforms and i've read many stories

1:07:24

what were you have to go to you to been patiently explained

1:07:26

each of executives are youtube works and

1:07:29

am i do take talk and talk and about this

1:07:31

and like and asia seems like building a business

1:07:33

as a creator on his muslims

1:07:36

are not sable is exhausting and

1:07:38

we hear about greater burnout all time where

1:07:40

you are you burn are you in it are you the

1:07:43

another fifteen years and green

1:07:45

so i'm not burned out i've

1:07:47

never experienced

1:07:49

when i think people are talking about

1:07:51

when they talk about burnout i get out of nurse

1:07:53

things like i could collapse moment i guess had

1:07:55

my that very bad moments in my career

1:07:57

for sir but usually they're not about like

1:07:59

the over work there about some external

1:08:02

problem that i cancelled the

1:08:04

things that have helped me was that are

1:08:06

obviously having a lot of like that enough resources

1:08:08

to get help you know usually

1:08:10

when i say help i don't me like therapy though that's

1:08:13

also good i mean like people

1:08:15

to take ,

1:08:17

bird his office me other people to do things

1:08:19

in the us and there's having

1:08:21

like people around me who don't

1:08:24

a my leg as driven because i'm not surrounded by

1:08:26

people who won the same things me

1:08:28

i think that if i get like that's very self reinforcing

1:08:31

and so at that that's a nice piece of it's i

1:08:33

have a really supportive community of people

1:08:35

who like if i have to take a break their likely take a break

1:08:37

my brother's very supportive like i like it's

1:08:39

always been the two of us in this together

1:08:42

and so of i'm having a hard time time

1:08:44

i wind to him he will either

1:08:46

tell me to stop whining and solve the

1:08:48

problem or the actually i'm just whining

1:08:51

and that like if you know that's like life is

1:08:54

hard and i have chosen and

1:08:56

very interesting life like

1:08:58

that it had the opportunity and she was very

1:09:00

interesting life that like as type loves

1:09:03

and if that it contains hard part's than

1:09:05

like that's other people's lives to bernard birds

1:09:07

do but sometimes it's like a thing that we were how

1:09:09

do we solve this problem tell i

1:09:12

have managed the not have

1:09:14

the to feel like i

1:09:17

don't know i just i am definitely tired

1:09:19

but i think that i wasn't this tied before

1:09:22

i had a child smith is

1:09:25

that this sort of additive sort like having of like

1:09:27

of stuff to do and also like wanting to be a good dad is

1:09:29

that is a big is definitely tricky and had

1:09:31

me thinking more about how do i get

1:09:34

great help and that i

1:09:36

think is really and that's probably

1:09:38

a much bigger deal than i ever

1:09:41

anticipated it would be and something

1:09:43

that i don't know i don't you like business people talking

1:09:45

enough about succession or like

1:09:47

how to

1:09:49

create

1:09:49

really stable systems have excellent executives

1:09:52

and which it seems to me like it's like the whole thing

1:09:55

yeah it's a host this is also here like

1:09:57

how you build a system that car parade itself might

1:09:59

no sony answer yet if you're out there was just

1:10:03

give thanks and million dollars and get on dollars sense

1:10:05

but it's it when it when it edited that

1:10:07

poll switch clicks me like overnight like

1:10:10

iverson lot more time there's a lot

1:10:12

of stats are there to say the the saying that young

1:10:14

people want to be most as he two birds like the number one

1:10:16

desired profession whenever i hear the satellites

1:10:20

in i like this but you might like at yeah

1:10:22

want to want asshole for us but like it's really hard

1:10:25

the i'm like it might be sustainable do think it's a sustainable

1:10:27

career now and twenty and

1:10:30

i'm in for a lot of invalid his cessna

1:10:32

methods a new yeah yeah

1:10:34

i think there's ways to do it the the

1:10:36

other thing i think is i think that it's

1:10:38

more like when people

1:10:40

wanted to be a rock star then when people

1:10:42

wanted to be quarterbacks the been a quarterback

1:10:45

it's not a super transferable skill

1:10:48

and also it's very hard on your body and also

1:10:50

it's very there's it's very select group of

1:10:52

people but one of the be a rock star

1:10:54

you least come out of it being great guitar the

1:10:57

one of the a you tuber i feel like you

1:10:59

can come out of it being a better communicator

1:11:02

you can come out of it like understanding

1:11:05

marketing better eat like a i

1:11:07

feel like it's it's if you actually a sort of like chase

1:11:09

it to it's logical conclusion it's like also you want to communications

1:11:11

degree which

1:11:13

is valuable like there's a lot of people who have great

1:11:15

jobs and have communication series i don't think that that's

1:11:17

how most kids are thinking about it but i think if

1:11:19

they cease it that like the skills

1:11:22

that you develop trying to be a you tube or are

1:11:24

more transferable than i try to

1:11:26

be a professional sports star and like

1:11:28

i am glad i wanted to be a rock star for

1:11:30

a little bit so that i can play my son simon

1:11:33

and garfunkel songs as the concern is more are

1:11:35

you setting yourself up for failure i think the dreams are

1:11:37

always six percent in

1:11:39

l a base i think that the main thing about

1:11:41

dreams is that once they

1:11:43

become less interesting to you whether it because

1:11:45

you're failing because you're changing that

1:11:48

you don't hold yourself to a dream that

1:11:50

you don't have anymore that's the only

1:11:52

thing i'd say to those kids

1:11:53

yep agger here i would say that i'm for all

1:11:55

the madison talk on the show being an ad

1:11:57

struggling little band was in a spanish and

1:11:59

the thing ever see is magnified cia

1:12:02

for people in the room and hour at a certain stop on time as

1:12:04

really hard yeah only and being

1:12:06

on tour did you ever go on tour where it's like knives

1:12:08

guys in a van with a thousand t

1:12:11

shirts and just smelling each

1:12:13

other for two months

1:12:15

we had our goal of flying the metro in chicago

1:12:17

is what the only thing i ever wanted and the other like well

1:12:19

puts it it's nothing less than three

1:12:21

done something because of commit

1:12:23

such reporter says that affects like

1:12:26

emma let's see everybody later we we

1:12:28

we had we realized we had we didn't have the next set

1:12:30

of innocent that's a whole other so gotta

1:12:32

have a member the band who is mostly

1:12:35

there to keep everybody else at

1:12:37

peace and on times this

1:12:40

once you doubt it's like others is over joe to

1:12:42

george love love him so much

1:12:45

i myself have and was to play guitar and final

1:12:47

approach with the system as instruments you

1:12:50

have to suffer from clumsy cherry

1:12:52

on top of everything else awesome sox awesome

1:12:54

coffee house with us

1:12:55

yeah so the the whole idea is

1:12:59

we buy things that we need and

1:13:01

want and like the current model is

1:13:03

in order to do that you have to have a founder

1:13:05

or stock shareholders who are getting

1:13:08

rich somehow but like do we

1:13:10

have to like it suffered that complicated and i'm

1:13:12

turns on are more complicated than i thought coffee also

1:13:14

same but do we have to

1:13:17

like it can you have a situation where instead

1:13:19

of when you by sachs some strange

1:13:21

rich person gets richer than that you will never

1:13:23

know exists could get to

1:13:25

speed that it helps build hospitals or something

1:13:28

celeste of this fall that were playing around with a certainly

1:13:30

not a unique idea of studied and

1:13:32

and with thought of newman's own and

1:13:35

, ways that it makes things easier and as with the makes

1:13:37

things harder and there's some of those with

1:13:39

that makes things harder surprised me me

1:13:41

the the alchemist a very good people

1:13:43

a sign of the without over ten thousand caucuses covers

1:13:46

over forty thousand success covers the some coffee

1:13:48

cup dishonest recently and

1:13:50

i don't know like part of me is like

1:13:52

okay we're going to be a sock company and this coffee

1:13:55

company and that's going to be great and part of me as like

1:13:57

birds are all assessor

1:13:59

be bigger than amazon yeah

1:14:04

a but like i never have a person who thinks too

1:14:06

much about what the goals are i think more about what

1:14:08

happens today and a what's happening

1:14:10

today seems good and i'm just going to chase it and

1:14:12

do it and whatever whatever decision

1:14:14

seems like the right decision that's later that's

1:14:17

amazing well hank you've given us so much time thinking some

1:14:19

ushering some ushering you for inviting yourself under cutter this

1:14:21

is really fun yeah thank you for asking good questions

1:14:24

and knowing so much about this stuff and also

1:14:26

having to put [unk]

1:14:34

thanks again to hang green for taking time

1:14:36

to started fighting soften the show

1:14:38

thank you for listening to tell her i hope you enjoyed

1:14:40

it is always i'd love to hear his into the show

1:14:42

you can email us at decoder suffered a com

1:14:45

can hit me up directly on at reckless on twitter

1:14:47

he likes the show the share with your friends

1:14:50

subscribe where we get a contest is really

1:14:52

like the south diversify service

1:14:54

and courses he tweet about the show i

1:14:57

, obviously be cutters a production

1:14:59

of the verge and for the busing hipparchus busing were to

1:15:01

is absurd as produce the critically some and jacking germany

1:15:04

was edited by kelly right decoder

1:15:06

music is my professor cylinder professor senior audio

1:15:08

directors and reno or editorial director is

1:15:10

brooke mentors or executive producers

1:15:12

owner donovan oceanic stuff

1:15:18

did you know we didn't get a black chess

1:15:20

grandmaster until nineteen ninety

1:15:22

nine that's when more wreath ashley

1:15:24

finally grabbed his greatness tennessee

1:15:27

, the drivers like more re

1:15:29

people who never settle until they reach

1:15:31

new heights for maurice he

1:15:33

did it on the chessboard pushing his mind

1:15:35

and sharpening his skills day in and

1:15:37

day out out into

1:15:39

your own pursuit of greatness

1:15:42

with hennessy never stop never

1:15:44

settle visit tennessee dot

1:15:46

com to learn more about maurice ashley

1:15:48

twenty one plus please enjoy response

1:15:56

leopard know that the dogs and cats we love

1:15:58

our true family members

1:15:59

that might sudden just to the that are so

1:16:02

sir

1:16:02

for humans and animals like they're

1:16:04

off

1:16:06

that by the dodo offers unmatched

1:16:08

pet insurance that reimburses up and ninety

1:16:10

percent of unexpected vet bills even

1:16:12

cover things that

1:16:13

they don't like this is to emergency

1:16:15

clinics exam seas and treatment

1:16:17

said reason the big issues and you

1:16:20

can keep cool that you're a little buddy already

1:16:22

love you know the one with a good treat

1:16:25

her limited time get up to ten percent

1:16:27

all such pet insurance as

1:16:28

three here

1:16:30

get your free personalized

1:16:32

at u penn dot com slash box