0:01

The era of automotive advances

0:04

with the all-electric Polestar 2. Now

0:07

with faster charging, improved EPA

0:09

estimated range of up to 320 miles, and advanced safety

0:13

technology, experience awe-inspiring

0:16

performance combined with luxury design

0:19

as standard. The time is now.

0:21

The all-electric Polestar 2. Book

0:24

a test drive and order today at Polestar.com.

0:31

Hello and welcome to Decoder. I'm

0:33

Eli Patel, editor-in-chief of The Verge, and Decoder

0:35

is my show about big ideas and other

0:37

problems. We have a special episode

0:40

for you today, and I'll be honest, it's mostly

0:42

problems. The Code Conference wrapped up this

0:44

week, and the finale was the first ever interview

0:47

with ex-CEO Linda Iaccarino.

0:49

The interview was conducted by Julia Borsten from CNBC,

0:52

who was my co-host at Code. To

0:55

say the sit-down with Elon Musk's number two

0:57

was confrontational would be an

0:59

understatement. Iaccarino appeared both unprepared

1:02

to answer tough questions, and was pretty

1:04

combative, especially when she was asked about comments from

1:06

Twitter's former trust and safety head Yul

1:08

Roth, who's become an outspoken critic of the

1:11

direction of the company since Elon took over.

1:13

Roth had just been on stage an hour earlier

1:15

at Code with Kara Swisher, and he

1:17

had warned Iaccarino of the risks of the

1:20

job she was in, and spoke at length about

1:22

the extreme harassment he's faced since leaving

1:24

the company. Iaccarino also gave us some updated

1:26

stats on ex-user metrics, and claimed

1:29

the company would turn a profit in 2024.

1:31

There were also some very tense exchanges about whether

1:33

Elon really plans to start charging a subscription

1:36

fee to use the platform if he seriously

1:38

plans to sue the Anti-Defamation

1:41

League and the company's recent cuts to

1:43

its election integrity team. It's

1:45

a jaw-dropping interview,

1:47

and you really have to listen to the whole thing. Okay,

1:49

here's Linda Iaccarino, CEO of X,

1:52

at the Code Conference. Here we go.

2:06

Linda, thank you for being here. Before

2:09

we dive in, I have so much to cover, I probably have

2:11

hours worth of questions.

2:14

But I want to make sure to get to

2:17

give you an opportunity to respond to Yoelle Roth

2:19

and his comments about an hour ago. He's

2:22

chuckling. Just for full context. You joined Twitter

2:25

in June and Yoelle did leave long

2:27

before you got there. He

2:30

was at Twitter for about

2:32

five weeks after Elon Musk took over the platform.

2:34

So you did not overlap. But he's describing,

2:37

you know, terrible things that happened to him and also

2:39

his experience at

2:41

a company that months later you have

2:44

come to run. I want to give you an opportunity to respond

2:46

to him. I'd be happy

2:48

to respond to him.

2:52

I'd be happy to respond. I

2:55

think I've been given about 45 minutes. Yes. And

2:58

also full disclosure, as many of you

3:00

saw, he was a very late addition to the

3:03

schedule. A surprise both

3:05

to me and Linda that he was added

3:07

here. So not something that

3:09

either of us were fully prepared for. I

3:12

think many people

3:13

in this room were not fully prepared for me

3:15

to still come out on the stage.

3:21

But here we are. So

3:24

thank you for asking the question. And

3:27

Julia's right. We have known

3:28

each other for a very long time and have had

3:30

a very long, deep,

3:32

strong relationship. So

3:34

when situations like this happen

3:37

unexpectedly, maybe

3:39

they were unexpected, we

3:42

stay strong together. So we're

3:46

going to move on.

3:47

But I do want to address

3:51

Yoel and I don't know

3:53

each other. He doesn't

3:55

know me. I don't know him.

4:00

I work at X.

4:02

He worked at Twitter. X

4:06

is a new company building

4:09

a foundation based on free

4:12

expression and freedom of speech. Twitter,

4:17

at the time,

4:18

was operating on a different sets of

4:21

rules, as said by himself,

4:23

different philosophies

4:26

and ideologies

4:26

that were creeping down

4:28

the road of censorship.

4:32

It's a new day at X, and

4:34

I'll leave it at that.

4:38

When asked what his advice

4:41

to you was, Kara asked him what his advice to you was, and he made

4:43

a comment about the

4:46

death threats or the threats

4:48

to his physical self that both

4:50

you and he have experienced and

4:52

him wanting to make sure that you were taking

4:54

any protections or precautions on the platform.

4:57

Seriously. The

4:57

team at

5:00

Twitter is fantastic.

5:02

If you're talking about my own personal

5:05

well-being and safety, I feel

5:08

great. I'm well

5:11

protected. He made a

5:13

comment about the FT

5:15

interview, I guess, as he

5:17

was preparing to come on the stage

5:21

that the public

5:22

scrutiny weighs heavy

5:24

on me,

5:25

my kids, my family,

5:27

my parents. I think

5:29

that's just

5:29

a human emotion when you get

5:32

thrust into such a public

5:34

spotlight in conjunction

5:37

with the nature of the platform

5:40

itself, when you're automatically

5:42

a recognizable public person

5:45

24-7 globally,

5:46

and with the

5:48

ability for or

5:50

the inability for anyone to control

5:53

other humans' actions,

5:55

comments, recognizable. And

5:58

I'm an identical twin. Think how

5:59

she feels. I

6:03

actually made the security team

6:04

a dollar bet because I only

6:06

ever bet a dollar by the way because

6:08

the reason I only bet a dollar ever

6:11

is because it's really only about winning right

6:14

so I told them I had a security

6:16

concern and I bet that they had never been confronted

6:18

with it and they're like there's no way we've seen

6:21

it all. What

6:21

are you gonna do for my identical twin?

6:24

So I won

6:26

the dollar but

6:29

to get back to the serious situation I

6:32

appreciate Yoel's comments and

6:34

I you know again we don't know each other I

6:36

assume they were authentic but

6:38

that is something that all public

6:41

people and a lot of times

6:43

CEOs have to confront because

6:46

of the public nature of their position

6:50

compromise insecurity so

6:53

again some people some other

6:55

people CEO friends of mine

6:58

peers have reached out to me I said

7:00

reach out to me if there's anything I could do to help you

7:03

on the platform but according

7:05

to Yoel's words

7:07

himself they were

7:10

platform wide he wasn't specifically

7:12

saying it was just coming from X

7:15

so I want to be clear about that. We

7:18

did Google and Disney that there were

7:20

threats him that were still there that was really the

7:22

one surprising thing to me and it does seem like that

7:25

is in violation

7:25

of the policies of X

7:28

Twitter. If

7:30

he reached out to me directly

7:32

I'd be happy to if

7:34

in fact those comments are true I'd

7:36

be happy to help them out as I would be

7:38

happy to help anyone in this room

7:41

or anyone who's listening but I also want

7:43

to take a moment and again

7:45

I hope we can get to pivot

7:48

yeah and talk about all the

7:50

moments that's going on at X

7:52

but I want to it's very hard for me to

7:54

refute or sift through the

7:57

combination of opinions of Yoel's

7:59

experience. and the position

8:02

to as fact that were

8:04

presented because again,

8:06

let's rewind, Yoel

8:09

was there for five weeks post

8:11

acquisition. One of the things he talked

8:13

about which was so surprising is that 75% decline

8:16

in content posted to X. That

8:22

in fact is not true

8:24

and is inaccurate and there are

8:26

many

8:26

days, weeks, months where there's

8:28

actually more content posted

8:31

to X and that is in spite

8:33

of our aggressive efforts to

8:35

fight spam and bots. So

8:38

think about that. Net

8:40

of our aggressive efforts that uniquely

8:42

started happening at X that other platforms have

8:44

followed suit, content

8:47

posting up. So that's one thing. But

8:50

Linda, because I want to shift gears from

8:52

Yoel's interview to a conversation

8:54

about the business. Yoel had 25 minutes to talk about

8:56

it. You have

8:58

a lot longer if you want. You

9:01

have all the time that you have for us. I

9:04

want to talk to you about the business and the issues of

9:06

engagement because I see a lot of data

9:08

as a reporter at CNBC and Aptopia

9:11

which tracks app usage. The actual time

9:13

spent on Twitter did get a post Elon bump

9:15

after the acquisition but it's tracked down

9:17

all year since then. A new report

9:19

out from Aptopia just this month says app

9:21

downloads have sunk to new lows. It's

9:24

in 96th place and when it comes to usage,

9:26

X is now 25th in active users

9:29

behind Telegram and even Samsung

9:31

clock. So how can we reconcile

9:35

what Musk has said about engagement, the

9:37

numbers you decided with all of

9:39

these different data points here? Well,

9:43

with over 540 million

9:45

global users, I'd

9:48

love to sift through the

9:51

data points that you picked

9:53

out. And they're really just

9:56

tracks of app downloads and engagement.

9:59

at the length of time

10:02

spent, the engagement on X

10:04

right now, the key metrics

10:05

are trending very,

10:07

very positively.

10:08

So if we wanna talk

10:10

about all the initiatives

10:12

that have been put in place, like was

10:15

covered in the previous interview

10:17

about all the brand

10:20

safety and content moderation tools

10:22

that exist now within

10:24

my first 100 days at the company,

10:27

that didn't exist for the eight years

10:29

prior, formerly

10:32

known as Twitter, I

10:34

think those are the type of things

10:37

we should be focusing on in

10:39

terms of progress

10:40

that has been made. Because

10:43

in a just short 100 days-ish

10:46

that I've been at the company,

10:48

what had to happen was for me

10:51

to kinda get in, look

10:53

under the hood. And when I realized

10:56

and I looked at, because it's still a lot of learning,

10:57

I mean, come on, it's 100 days, there's

11:01

a lot of learning that's still gonna

11:02

go on, but the

11:04

velocity of change,

11:07

the scope of the ambition

11:10

at X

11:12

really

11:13

does not exist anywhere

11:16

else. Forget the other platforms. At

11:18

any other company likely on earth,

11:21

there is no analog for

11:23

the book that is being written right

11:26

now. So if you look at

11:28

infrastructure changes, over 100 products

11:31

shipped since acquisition,

11:33

brand safety and content moderation tools

11:36

that didn't exist. Advertiser

11:40

products that did not exist that

11:42

are now wrapped up in brand

11:45

safety, third-party verification

11:47

partners that did not exist. The

11:50

company that was described about

11:53

an hour ago no

11:55

longer exists. And I would

11:57

argue pretty aggressively. if

12:00

you want to, I don't know the

12:03

stat, did you say telegram? Did

12:06

I say telegram? No, you're behind telegram.

12:08

No, no, I know, I have

12:10

to scrub your numbers. But

12:13

that being said, when you

12:15

put in context what

12:17

has happened in

12:19

the last 10 months

12:20

and

12:22

specifically the last 12 weeks of

12:25

listening to our employees, listening

12:28

to our customers, those advertising

12:31

customers that you reference that

12:34

I was given

12:34

such great advice

12:35

that I could prove from a data-driven

12:37

standpoint and they'll come back, the

12:39

great news is another fact

12:42

that was inaccurate. In

12:46

June, actually, I did

12:48

an interview with one of your colleagues

12:50

at CNBC, Sarah Eisen.

12:53

And- I think in August. Was

12:55

that August? It was 100 days, yeah. Oh yeah, I started

12:58

in June, it's all a blur. Because

13:00

again, the pace of innovation

13:03

is unlike anything you

13:05

could ever imagine.

13:06

Think about it, it's

13:08

exhilarating to the point of intoxicating,

13:10

that's why when you get inspired

13:13

and pushed by Elon Musk to

13:16

do the things that you

13:18

would never normally think were possible,

13:22

you land on a day like today.

13:23

You show up, you

13:25

tell them the mountain high of accomplishments

13:28

that were made in just 12 weeks. And

13:30

you don't look back and compare yourself

13:33

to a legacy company that doesn't exist

13:35

anymore. But so Linda, I wanna get some of these stats. So

13:37

you mentioned your interview- It's been a day,

13:40

so I brought my car. You're welcome to- I

13:43

was supposed to put an X on, but

13:45

I was watching the interview. And

13:47

I didn't have time. Okay, so one question

13:49

I have is, what are the daily

13:51

active users that you have? Because that is a

13:53

metric that Twitter was using before

13:56

Elon Musk came over. And you mentioned

13:58

that Sarah Eisen interview, You're your daily

14:00

active users and then also you told

14:02

Sarah you were nearing profitability. How

14:04

close are you? Yeah, well that's so exciting. I'll

14:07

get back to your first question but what's so exciting

14:10

is that from an operating

14:12

cash flow perspective

14:14

we are just about break even.

14:16

So the other

14:19

emotion that was painted in the previous

14:21

talk, we feel pretty good about

14:23

where we are and when I did

14:25

the other talk

14:26

that you said was in August, it

14:28

was too soon, I think it was

14:29

about five or six weekend, I couldn't have eyes

14:32

on even the rest

14:34

of third quarter let alone fourth quarter.

14:37

So now that I have immersed

14:40

myself in the business and we

14:43

have a good set of eyes on what is

14:45

predictable and what's coming is

14:47

that it looks like in early 24 we'll be

14:50

turning a profit.

14:52

So that's exciting. I want to get

14:54

back to another stat about 75% or

14:57

I think he said 60% of advertisers

15:02

had left the platform

15:04

or something.

15:04

Well that's what Elon Musk said. No, he said 60% of

15:07

advertising revenue. He didn't say

15:10

advertisers but

15:11

again another point of distinction

15:14

when you're talking about

15:16

months and months old information.

15:19

So 90% of the top 100

15:20

advertisers have returned to the platform.

15:26

In the last 12 weeks alone about 1500

15:29

have returned. So

15:32

whether it is a small

15:35

business or big brands

15:38

like AT&T, Visa, Nissan

15:41

all returning. Why are

15:43

they returning?

15:44

They are returning because of

15:46

the power and significance

15:49

of the platform, the place that

15:51

X has in this world. So do you have a stat

15:54

on daily active users? Yeah I'm going to. Probably 200,

15:56

250, stuff like that. Did

16:00

you check over? Did you check over? Did you

16:02

check over? No, this is when Musk took over,

16:04

there were 237 million monetizable daily action.

16:07

Yeah. So,

16:08

listen to this.

16:09

One of the reasons that

16:12

I'm in the chair I'm in today

16:14

and in the chair I

16:17

am at X leading the company

16:20

is because I knew for the

16:22

last decade, and you knew this, part

16:24

of my old remit was to

16:26

oversee not only the advertising

16:29

revenue for the company, but

16:32

to look after all of our

16:34

enterprise relationships, our, I still

16:36

say our, all of the NBCU

16:39

enterprise relationships, and Twitter

16:41

was one of them. I specifically used the

16:44

name Twitter, by the way, purposely.

16:46

That's when for 10

16:47

years and how I

16:50

fell in love with the platform, because

16:52

I knew, first of all, we all knew the trajectory

16:55

of where broadcast cable television

16:58

and usage and consumption was going, but

17:01

this

17:02

powered by now X was

17:05

the only mechanism that

17:07

could take the premium content business,

17:10

live global events, news,

17:13

when I used to sit in my office and watch you

17:15

on television, it was the only thing

17:17

that could put you live in

17:20

culture, where it happens,

17:22

in the moment. So the users

17:25

of X, our

17:27

community of ferociously

17:29

loyal user base,

17:31

shows up.

17:32

Everyone who's in marketing in this room, what

17:35

you want to get to is that you're a habit, it's

17:38

habitual that you're

17:40

checking this, Cuomo, morning,

17:43

noon and night. And you

17:45

need new engagement numbers you can share with us, because

17:47

those stats from Aptoping and others, other

17:50

sources show a decline. What sources

17:53

were they? It was Aptopia, and I have the

17:55

whole list here, whatever

17:58

source I just cited. I'll

18:02

give you almost like a more personal

18:05

specific number

18:08

which demonstrates part

18:10

of the

18:11

growth at X. If

18:14

you take our communities, 50,000

18:15

curated

18:18

environments and conversations

18:20

of communities on X,

18:24

the

18:27

engagement numbers and time

18:30

spent

18:31

is up dramatically

18:34

just since June.

18:36

Okay, right? So, hold on, I

18:38

want to... But we're running short

18:40

on time, so I got to get... We have so much to cover

18:42

here. Okay, where do you want to go? Okay,

18:45

I want to talk about your role running the company.

18:47

Okay, thank you. So, Elon Musk just

18:50

announced a new monthly fee for users. Yeah.

18:53

And my question for you is do you want to start charging

18:55

all users of X, as he said, and how

18:57

many users do you think you will lose as a result? Can

19:01

you repeat? Elon Musk announced

19:04

you're moving to an entirely

19:05

subscription-based service. Yeah.

19:07

Nothing free about using X. Did

19:10

he say we were moving to it specifically

19:12

or is thinking about it? He said that's

19:14

the plan. Yeah. So, what did he consult

19:17

you before he announced that? We talk about

19:19

everything. Did

19:22

you... Your background is in advertising. I

19:24

would be surprised if you want to get rid

19:27

of a free version. Why wouldn't

19:29

we? To have no

19:31

free version of that? So, do

19:34

you think Elon brought me to the

19:37

company to be the head of advertising,

19:40

which I appreciate Kara's comments that said

19:42

I'm such a fantastic advertising executive?

19:45

Or do you think he brought me to

19:48

run the company and to deliver

19:50

to our users the

19:53

best possible experience?

19:55

And one of the biggest struggles I had in my previous

19:58

career... at the other companies

20:01

I worked for was I was known as

20:03

a provocateur. I was called a heretic

20:05

a couple of times because I constantly

20:08

tried

20:08

to push legacy media companies

20:12

to change, to iterate, to innovate.

20:14

Why did I do that? I did

20:16

that to keep

20:19

up with consumer behavior.

20:21

And X will become

20:24

the best, most useful

20:27

platform to what the consumers

20:29

want. You've got to admit, it's not

20:31

boring. It's one of the funniest

20:34

places on earth. And when

20:36

you think about how users

20:39

are able to

20:41

communicate, to

20:44

now watch video, soon

20:46

to be able to transact,

20:50

that is a whole experience where there is

20:52

no surrogate today.

20:55

There is no surrogate for X. So

20:57

hang on. Hang on. So

21:00

it's continually, you know, I

21:02

could sit here and use the

21:04

answer

21:05

your questions about 540 monthly

21:07

active users, 225 daily active

21:09

users, but I'm not sure you're

21:12

even

21:15

asking me the right questions

21:18

because we're so caught up constantly

21:20

in the noise or the post of the moment.

21:23

And what's going on under our nose

21:26

is a platform in transformation

21:29

where there is no surrogate. But so

21:31

then talk to me about this comment that Elon

21:33

Musk made just a week ago saying he wanted

21:35

to make it all subscription to fight

21:38

the army of bots. And when I heard that news, I

21:40

thought two things. Number one, I would

21:42

be surprised if you whose background is in

21:45

free app supported content on the project. I think my background

21:48

is being a very senior

21:50

executive. I would

21:52

be surprised if you didn't want to have some free version

21:55

of X. And I'm curious if you agree

21:58

or if you think it all should be subscription

21:59

based.

21:59

And my question for you was, the

22:02

two things I thought was, I would be

22:03

curious to know if you

22:05

thought that was a good plan. And second,

22:08

how much he consulted you, because yes, you

22:11

were brought in as CEO, that is your title,

22:13

but you don't cover

22:16

product. All of the

22:18

product teams report to Elon Musk,

22:20

and as a result of that, there's been a lot of... To

22:23

anyone in this room, there would be a... Can

22:25

I finish, please? Wait, Linda. Let me finish.

22:28

Sure, sure, sure, sure. The product team does not report

22:31

to you. The product team at Meta

22:33

reports to Mark Zuckerberg. Because

22:35

the product team does not report to you, there has been

22:37

speculation that you are in more of a COO

22:40

role, or a CBO role, a CEO

22:42

in name only role. You know what's funny is that

22:45

we talk about that a lot at X. As

22:48

you know, it's a very flat organization,

22:50

and the teams are

22:52

very empowered

22:53

to perform at their highest levels. So

22:56

I'm not sure what your definition

22:58

of, or how you want to wiggle

23:01

me into an answer of are you really just

23:03

a COO, or

23:05

I don't know... CEO in name only. Oh,

23:08

COO, oh, okay, yeah. Yeah,

23:11

not nice. But that

23:13

being said, that being said,

23:15

I think what Elon

23:18

and I talk about a lot, number

23:20

one, always starts with the user

23:23

experience. And that has to be

23:25

primary, but I want to go back to your... He

23:28

runs product, he

23:31

runs technology, he leads a team of

23:33

exceptionally talented

23:35

engineers.

23:38

And who's kidding who?

23:40

I don't care what the structure is at Meta,

23:43

but who wouldn't want Elon

23:46

Musk sitting by their side running

23:48

product? I

23:53

see a show of hands.

23:57

There may be a few show of hands

23:59

to give. get the cute chuckles you're getting, but

24:02

I would say the percentages in

24:04

this room are

24:05

about 99% who

24:09

would say no to that and 1% of

24:14

maybe personal opinion or

24:16

feelings. We

24:19

have to take a quick break. When we're back, Julia asks

24:21

Linda about Elon's demon mode.

24:31

The era of automotive advances

24:33

with the all-electric Polestar 2.

24:36

Now with faster charging, improved EPA

24:39

estimated range of up to 320

24:41

miles, and advanced safety technology.

24:44

Experience awe-inspiring performance

24:46

combined with luxury design as

24:48

standard. The time is now.

24:51

The all-electric Polestar 2. Book

24:54

a test drive and order today at Polestar.com.

24:59

We're

25:03

back and we're getting into what it's like to

25:05

work for Elon Musk.

25:07

Notably, last week, Walter Isaacson

25:10

came out with a book. Did you read it? I

25:12

have not read it. It's very long. I've not read it. So

25:15

no, no, I've not read it. I've read many excerpts. Watch

25:17

his interview on C-SPAN.

25:19

Sorry for the competitive network, but his interview,

25:22

he was interviewed on C-SPAN. I thought it was excellent.

25:25

I have read many excerpts. I

25:27

mean, it's a very long book for those of you who have read it. In

25:30

this book, in interviews that Musk has

25:32

done, in his tweets, Musk comes off

25:34

as, I will say, mercurial. I think

25:37

that is a fair description of him. And

25:39

Walter Isaacson describes him as having a, quote,

25:42

demon mode.

25:44

When was the last time you saw

25:46

the demon mode? And how's it like to work with someone who

25:48

has that? I've been there 12 weeks. I

25:51

am still somewhat

25:53

in awe of his availability

25:55

to me. So the moments where you think

25:58

we don't talk, we talk. Unbelievable

26:00

availability. It's stunning. I've

26:04

never experienced any

26:06

of that. He's been Consistently

26:11

and completely supportive of me now.

26:14

This also is not my

26:15

first rodeo

26:17

I've had I've

26:18

reported to a lot of CEOs

26:21

you go through

26:22

highs and lows because

26:24

you have differences of opinions

26:26

and you have a different scope of Experiences,

26:30

but one thing Elon always talks about

26:32

or actually the whole team talk about

26:33

is the feedback loop That

26:36

it's just think about the nature of the platform.

26:38

I mean The

26:41

feedback loop is incredible and

26:43

also we always talk about the value

26:45

of that negative feedback loop so

26:48

the opportunity to state

26:51

an opinion Based on

26:53

your scope of experiences and point

26:55

of view is always

26:57

encouraged If you don't have

26:59

that push and pull when does the innovation

27:01

happen? When do you when you?

27:04

question

27:06

What used to exist or will you

27:08

question the challenge that

27:10

lies ahead if you don't debate

27:12

and there's not a friction there How

27:15

does the next happen? I mean

27:17

if the car industry wasn't

27:19

questioned, would we have the electronic car

27:21

into? Industry, I mean I could

27:24

go on and on about the list of accomplishments And

27:26

I'm not here to go down that

27:28

road or to represent that all I'm saying

27:31

is that the the idea Of

27:34

the inability

27:35

to have a debate or feedback I haven't

27:37

experienced or I'll say I haven't

27:40

experienced it yet because you

27:42

all go through different

27:44

Turns in your relationship and

27:49

You know

27:50

all good 12 weeks

27:52

in I wish that we could have spent

27:54

more time talking about the scope

27:56

of Accomplishment and we talk

27:58

more. I'd love to talk to you about the media business

28:01

that you're building, I know that it says we're out

28:03

of time, but if you're okay to keep going,

28:05

I would like to keep going. I'll wait till

28:07

they come give me the hook. Well,

28:09

they're not gonna give you the hook, Linda.

28:12

I have hours more of

28:14

questions here. I know you have places

28:16

to be, but I would like to keep

28:18

going, and I think specifically

28:20

when it comes to why you are at

28:23

X, I know it is to rebuild

28:25

the relationship with advertisers, and

28:28

I know I'd be remiss not

28:30

to ask about the ADL, and

28:32

we've had the head of the ADL on CNBC

28:35

multiple times. He reported, first he talked

28:37

about how much he respected Elon Musk, what

28:39

once Elon took over Twitter, and

28:42

more recently he talked about how he had a great

28:44

productive meeting with you. We did. That

28:47

is in fact true. Followed by

28:49

Elon Musk saying he was threatening to

28:51

sue the ADL.

28:53

I wish that would be different. We're looking

28:56

into that. So do

28:58

you... I want to

29:01

be clear about the situation, okay?

29:03

So

29:05

shortly after, maybe a

29:07

day after

29:08

the transaction

29:11

and acquisition of the company,

29:13

the ADL, under Jonathan's leadership,

29:17

came out with a letter ecosystem-wide

29:21

suggesting that advertisers

29:23

pause on the platform. Was this

29:25

a coalition of 60 civil rights groups? Because there

29:28

was what I remember covering in November 2022

29:30

with 60 civil rights groups, including

29:33

Color of Change,

29:35

Media Matters, Free Press, and yes,

29:37

ADL. They did launch a campaign called Stop

29:39

Toxic Twitter, but

29:42

they were releasing data. You asked me

29:44

specifically

29:45

about the ADL. Yeah.

29:47

So the ADL

29:49

has been very consistent

29:51

about suggested pausing

29:54

of advertisers on

29:57

then Twitter

29:57

continues into X.

29:59

Those were

30:00

related to Elon's

30:02

comments about advertisers being

30:05

down so significantly. The

30:07

productive conversation I had with Jonathan,

30:10

and I would hope

30:12

that there will

30:13

be productive conversations in the future,

30:16

was about the need for

30:19

the ADL to acknowledge all the

30:21

progress that has been made now at

30:23

EPP. And

30:26

there in lies the moment

30:29

that we're living in today. And

30:32

when Jonathan continues to

30:34

question the progress as it relates to anti-Semitism,

30:38

it is disappointing

30:39

that there is not equal time given to

30:41

all the progress. As a matter of fact,

30:43

did you get an alert on your phone about the

30:45

spaces that Elon is doing

30:48

tomorrow night? I did not, but admittedly

30:50

have not been on my phone today. Well,

30:53

Elon is co-hosting

30:55

and lead participating in a spaces

30:57

tomorrow night with, I believe

31:00

it's nine, it could have grown more

31:03

very influential

31:05

Jewish leaders in the world

31:08

to discuss

31:10

anti-Semitism, the

31:12

current state of the impact on culture,

31:15

and how X can help. So,

31:17

I will leave you with that. Linda,

31:22

is this in response to the 100 Jewish

31:24

leaders, including prominent rabbis and academics,

31:27

releasing a public letter? You know, I don't believe so. I

31:29

don't believe so. And again, what you're

31:31

referencing, I was just made

31:33

aware of it today. I think it came out yesterday.

31:38

This is... Or

31:38

Monday, maybe. I don't believe so. As

31:42

you know, last week Elon also met with

31:44

Prime Minister Netanyahu. So

31:47

that in conjunction with open

31:49

conversations that we have with

31:51

a lot of these groups, right? So

31:53

whether it's the AJC

31:56

or the Foundation to Combat Anti-Semitism,

31:59

we have an open...

31:59

honest

32:01

partnership relationship.

32:03

And if there's something that comes

32:05

up that we were

32:07

not perfect and we didn't

32:09

catch, they DM me directly.

32:12

They contact me so I could alert the trust and

32:15

safety team. And we invite

32:17

all of our partners to participate

32:20

for the solution, to

32:22

create a solution to benefit the

32:24

people who are being harmed when things

32:26

are negotiated in the press for

32:29

headlines. So

32:31

imagine if we were able to take the conversation

32:35

from a reactive

32:37

one when some of the damage

32:39

has already been done and enable

32:42

us to be proactive as partners

32:45

to focus on the real solution. And I wish

32:47

everybody would have that

32:50

as their priority focus, because some of these

32:52

groups have moved beyond

32:54

the scope of their original

32:56

mandate into activist

32:58

organizations.

32:58

But Linda, to me, the way

33:00

I saw you at NBC

33:01

Universal is very conciliatory, that was part of

33:04

your job. And the way I saw you meeting with

33:06

Jonathan Greenblatt and having these meetings, very conciliatory.

33:08

That is your reputation, is how I've

33:10

known you. I'm a nurturer and

33:13

a solution provider. But let

33:15

me finish this question. The

33:17

fact that days after that meeting with

33:19

Jonathan Greenblatt, Elon Musk threatens

33:22

to sue the ADL makes

33:24

me wonder if he's working in opposition

33:26

to what you're doing, and it makes me wonder

33:29

if you think that the ADL is defaming

33:31

Twitter, and if it's a good idea for your

33:33

partner and your company to be threatening that

33:35

lawsuit. I'll repeat what I said.

33:38

The conflation of

33:40

two different issues of what's going

33:41

on at the ADL, which

33:43

is the continuation

33:46

of focusing on

33:48

an advertiser

33:48

ecosystem to pause

33:51

at X without acknowledging

33:54

progress is the

33:55

situation. When you reference

33:58

my style of the ad,

33:59

being very partnership oriented

34:02

or use your word conciliatory

34:04

is because I built a career on

34:07

partnerships, knowledge

34:09

and hard work, right? That

34:12

continues at X. Okay?

34:13

I've

34:15

also

34:16

spent my

34:17

entire career

34:18

being candid

34:20

and completely transparent.

34:23

Ask anyone who's ever done business with me. And

34:26

sometimes that creates tough, candid

34:29

conversations. But I'm always

34:32

going to stand up

34:34

for the truth.

34:37

And that's what you're hearing from

34:39

me today. And is that this is

34:41

about the truth. And but

34:43

do you think that it is better to

34:46

have these conversations and these meetings

34:48

as you're describing or to threaten

34:50

a lawsuit?

34:51

Are there times when you

34:53

wish that Elon Musk would not tweet and

34:55

would instead

34:56

let you do your job?

34:58

The foundation of

35:01

X

35:01

is based on free expression

35:03

and freedom of speech. Everyone

35:07

deserves to have that opportunity to

35:11

speak their opinion,

35:12

no matter who they are,

35:14

including Elon, including you,

35:16

Julia,

35:17

we can't just decide who

35:20

doesn't get to post or have their

35:22

opinion because we don't like

35:25

it. It's actually what we talk a lot about.

35:27

Free expression is only successful.

35:30

Freedom of speech only

35:31

successful. If someone you

35:33

disagree with says something,

35:36

you disagree with.

35:37

And on that note, I have

35:39

got to. Can I get two more

35:41

minutes with you on your trust and safety work

35:44

that you've been doing? Because this is something

35:46

that you all referenced. I'm

35:49

kind of glad you brought that up because he said there

35:51

was one person on the

35:54

election integrity team. Well, today there

35:57

was an article out and the information that reported

35:59

that... all these people had been

36:01

fired. I think they referenced three and

36:03

that is entirely accurate but

36:07

he also said there was only one person

36:10

at the company. So just to reference what Elon Musk tweeted

36:12

in response to the information article. He said

36:15

that yes, the team that

36:17

was the global election integrity

36:20

team, the

36:23

disinformation election fraud, this is the team focused

36:26

on that, Musk confirmed that they

36:28

had been fired and he said that this team

36:30

had previously undermined election

36:32

integrity. Over a billion people

36:34

are gonna vote in 2024. It's

36:37

not just in the US, election integrity

36:39

is an issue all around the world. And

36:41

it's an issue we take very seriously. And

36:44

contrary to the comments that

36:46

were made, there is a robust

36:48

and growing team at

36:51

X that

36:55

is wrapping their arms around election

36:57

integrity. And

37:00

it is a spectrum

37:02

of skillset

37:03

and discipline

37:05

from operations

37:08

to brand safety. And it fights

37:11

platform manipulation, disinformation,

37:13

right? It

37:17

captures everything that we

37:19

need to protect on our

37:21

platform. It's not only one

37:23

person that was referenced, it's not

37:25

only three people. We are, as

37:28

a matter of fact today, added two people

37:30

to the team. So I can't argue a portion

37:32

of an article

37:35

that manipulates

37:37

information. But I will tell

37:40

you. Are you saying the information article about the layoffs is

37:42

manipulating information? I know, I said

37:44

that it was partial information.

37:47

So one of the other articles today. Again,

37:50

I think it only said three

37:52

people. So it was partial information. And

37:55

I really gotta go. My last thing is, I know there

37:57

were a lot of layoffs before you came. I'm

37:59

sorry. And there were a lot of layoffs at the company

38:01

before it came. Oh my gosh, dramatic layoffs.

38:04

This goes back to the velocity

38:07

of change and the scope of the ambition

38:10

at X with roughly

38:12

25% of the original

38:13

team.

38:15

So it does

38:17

speak to maybe what was going on

38:19

prior to acquisition because as one

38:22

of the biggest advocates

38:24

of then Twitter at

38:27

my old job, the

38:29

biggest frustration

38:31

always was the complacency

38:34

or lack of change or new product shipment.

38:36

I remember one time I called one of my contacts

38:39

there and said, I got approval

38:42

at NBC Universal for resources

38:45

because I really want you to

38:46

build this video product for me. Okay?

38:48

So it existed back then. But

38:51

I get back to your question. You go

38:53

from 8,000 to a little less than 1,500 or whatever that percentage

38:55

is, 25% of the staff,

39:00

you ship 100 product updates. The

39:02

overhaul of the infrastructure updates,

39:04

you have brand safety tools, content moderation

39:07

tools did not exist. But

39:09

so are you hiring in this category?

39:13

In this category, as I said, we just hired

39:15

two people to the brand safety

39:18

team today.

39:18

And I have to say, I

39:20

just brought in a partial new leadership

39:22

team that have exquisite

39:26

resumes who just joined the

39:28

team from really

39:30

pristine backgrounds who bring

39:32

with them not only a network security

39:35

or which category for the company. I said

39:37

leadership team. It seems like

39:39

some of those people are in the sort of content business,

39:41

which I wish we had more time to talk about.

39:44

But because you'll be hearing some of those announcements

39:46

in the next week or two. But thank you so much,

39:48

everyone. I got to go. I really appreciate

39:51

it. Lindy, I could know. Thank you for making the time

39:52

for it.

39:58

for agreeing

40:00

to appear at the Code Con. And Julie

40:02

Borstin for keeping her cool and asking

40:05

all the right questions. I thought your interviews

40:07

were perfect. Watching Alia at work here

40:09

was incredible. I'd also like

40:11

to thank all of you for tuning in. I

40:13

hope you enjoyed the show. As always, I'd love

40:15

to hear what you think of D2D2. You can email us at decoder

40:17

at the version. You'll need all

40:20

those instances. You can also send me a message through

40:22

the friends at MattRickles128. We also have a tech doctor

40:24

comments at decoder.com, it's a lot of fun. If

40:27

you like Decoder, please share it with your friends and subscribe

40:29

to the podcast. If you really like the show,

40:31

hit us with a flasher.

40:32

Decoder is a production of the Virgin,

40:34

a part of the Vox Machina network. Today's episode

40:37

is produced by Kate Cox and next time it was

40:39

edited by Kevin Wright. The Decoder music is

40:41

by Breakmaster

40:41

Cylinder. Our editorial director is Brooke Ventura

40:43

and our executive producer is Alan O'Donovan. We'll

40:46

see you next time.

40:52

The era of automotive advances

40:55

with the all electric Polestar 2. Now

40:58

with faster charging,

40:59

improved EPA estimated range

41:02

of up to 320 miles and advanced

41:04

safety technology. Experience

41:06

awe inspiring performance combined with

41:09

luxury design as standard. The

41:11

time is now, the all

41:13

electric Polestar 2. Book

41:15

a test drive and order today at Polestar.com.

41:21

Support for this show

41:23

came from American Express Business. You've

41:26

seen your business go from just an idea to

41:29

a success. Now it's time to find

41:31

a partner to help you grow it even more. American

41:33

Express is here to help. American

41:36

Express Business cards are built for your

41:38

business with features and benefits like

41:40

the ability to earn membership rewards points

41:42

on select cards, the power to pay

41:44

for big business purchases and 24

41:46

seven support from a business specialist.

41:49

Built for your business, Amex Business,

41:52

terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com

41:55

slash business cards.

41:59

you