0:15

Pushkin. I

0:23

don't want to pick a fight with the cartel or the

0:25

biker gangs or drug boards.

0:27

I'm not I'm a small town chief

0:29

trying to run the department, and we have one cold

0:31

case that we're trying to solve, so we just

0:33

want to find the truth. That's

0:36

Ben Ford, the chief of police in

0:38

Traveler's Rest. When I was reporting

0:40

for this podcast, I spent a bunch

0:42

of time with Chief Ford, or Ben,

0:44

that's what he said I should call him.

0:46

He's a very personable guy, and he's

0:49

deeply invested in Brooke Henson's case.

0:52

In fact, when I first started poking around

0:54

on the story, he actually reached

0:56

out to me. He wanted to share

0:58

what he knew in the hopes that by

1:01

getting the word out there, he might finally

1:03

solve this case. So

1:07

when I first got into town, we drove around

1:09

owned for a while, gave me a little tour,

1:11

and we talked about the case, about all

1:13

the competing theories and what happened, and

1:16

then we headed back to his office and talk some

1:18

more. Honestly, it's

1:20

unusual for law enforcement to be quite

1:23

this candid, So today

1:25

we're sharing some of that conversation, and

1:28

one of The first things that Ben shared with me

1:31

was that he'd grown up here in Traveler's

1:33

Rest, and so everything that happened

1:35

here with Brooke Henson it was

1:38

personal for him.

1:52

I'm Jake Halbern and this is

1:55

deep cover this

2:09

week or going back to Traveler's Rest.

2:20

So what was it like growing up here? I'll just give me a sense

2:22

for her. Yeah, yeah, So you know, quiet

2:25

small town. You pretty much knew everybody,

2:28

and you're you knew of everybody, so

2:32

there weren't many things that could get

2:34

kept secret around here. So

2:38

you know, it was a quiet little town, not a whole

2:40

lot of crime, you know, just a great place

2:42

to grow up. Really, Brook

2:44

Henson must have been about your age,

2:46

maybe a bit younger. She was a little younger than

2:48

me. Yes, did you know her or her family

2:51

growing up? I did not. I didn't know. I

2:53

was five years I see, five years

2:55

older than her. I believe my

2:58

brother actually is three years younger than me

3:00

and actually knew her, and actually my

3:03

my wife knew her from school, so

3:06

I have those connections that

3:08

they knew of her, and and Brooke

3:10

dropped out of school early in high school,

3:12

in tenth grade. I believe it was But but growing

3:15

up through middle school in high school. Yeah, I've got

3:17

family members and my wife that that kind of knew

3:19

her. Does that change

3:21

things in terms of making

3:23

them more personal? Like this is not just some

3:26

random person who you're investigating.

3:29

What happeness is someone that you have personal connections

3:32

to in a small town. It does for me. And

3:34

even when I worked to another agency, the

3:36

Maldon Police Department, I

3:39

knew of this case. I knew of this case my

3:41

entire career. When I worked to other agencies and I

3:43

knew that she was missing and it was unsolved.

3:46

And if there were people that I

3:48

came across that I thought may know something,

3:51

I would ask And it wasn't even my case. Then

3:53

I worked for other agencies, but I would ask

3:56

and if if they had good information, I would refer

3:58

them up here to travels rest to see

4:00

if they could help help out with the case. So it

4:03

does. It does make it a little more personal. I

4:06

have an investigative background

4:09

throughout my career. Most of my career has

4:11

been investigations, and it's something that

4:13

that I don't like to give up home. It's just

4:16

especially when when it hits home and it's

4:18

so close to people

4:20

that I know. So there's

4:23

so many of different accounts in the media, and I know

4:26

a lot of uh, there's a lot of misinformation

4:28

out there. But let's maybe just start like, what do we

4:30

know about the facts of this case? Are

4:33

what are the things that we can say relatively

4:35

certain, and what don't we know about the

4:38

facts surrounding her disappearance. So interestingly

4:41

enough, what we thought were facts

4:43

in this case may not have been

4:45

now that we've we found out in the last

4:47

year. So what

4:49

was reported was that Brooke was

4:52

last seen at her residence at about

4:54

two thirty in the morning, outside

4:56

of the residence going for a walk. That's

5:00

reported by her mother and a

5:02

couple of other individuals family members there

5:04

that spoke to her

5:06

saw her. That's their account.

5:10

We don't actually know if that's true or

5:12

not. They're they're conflicting stories

5:15

now saying that no, she never walked

5:17

away from the house. She was other places.

5:20

We have several statements now that she was

5:22

last seen alive up

5:24

in the River Falls community of Greenville

5:26

County, which is about six

5:28

or eight miles north of Traveler's Rest,

5:31

and we believe that she was

5:33

last thing alive up there on the same

5:35

night or a different night. It would be the same night, the

5:38

same night she was known to

5:40

leave and maybe walk around the town. She

5:42

was known as a walker around town, and she may

5:44

walk to get some cigarettes or walk

5:47

up to the to the local store,

5:50

and there was some pool tables there and a

5:52

little hangout. Of course, these places

5:54

were closed this time of night, which makes

5:56

it even more strange on why she would have went

5:59

for a walk. Then, however,

6:02

we have statements that say that, you

6:04

know, this person picked her up, or this person picked

6:06

her up, or we have so many different statements.

6:09

Don't know what's true and what's not. So what

6:11

we're finding out is the deeper we dig,

6:14

the more stories we're hearing.

6:17

I heard one the other day and

6:19

I can't go into detail about some of the stories, but

6:23

allegedly this person killed her now and we never

6:25

heard that person's name in twenty three years, and

6:28

this is how this person did it. So you

6:30

know, we're we're still following up on that obviously, but

6:32

but you know, she was The

6:35

facts remain in the case file that she

6:37

was last seen at her residence. However,

6:39

we do have statements she was seen in Riverfalls, so

6:41

we believe somebody picked her up what

6:44

we believe now took her to River Falls to some

6:46

more parties. We've

6:48

been told there were parties up there too that night, so we

6:50

believe that she was last seen alive up there. What

6:52

happened that all of a sudden a year ago,

6:55

this changes. I mean we're almost more

6:57

than twenty years out, so what

6:59

happens that kind of gets this new information

7:01

going. So when

7:04

I came in the end of twenty eighteen, I

7:06

started digging into the case myself. I

7:09

wanted to look at it and see after

7:13

a couple of years of doing that off

7:15

and on, you know, being the police chief, I have other responsibilities

7:18

too. There's a friend

7:20

of mine, this retired law enforcement that

7:23

he and I talked about this case a little bit, and

7:27

he wants to be anonymous, and I'm going to keep

7:29

him anonymous. But he came

7:31

into the picture and we

7:33

talked a little bit, and I allowed him

7:36

to look at the case file, which is, you

7:39

know, for bankers box full

7:41

of information. Of course, I

7:43

scanned it and put it on digital format so he could look

7:46

at it and that type of thing. So when he came on the scene,

7:49

he had some it was a fresh set eyes. It

7:51

was a retired law enforce a officer. This is just volunteer

7:53

in his time. So at that point we really

7:55

sort of hitting it hard and talking to more

7:57

and more people. And so about

8:00

a year. It was April of last year, April twenty

8:02

twenty one when we started that, and

8:04

that kind of jolted us in this investigation

8:07

to spend more time working on it. The

8:10

main thing that we've heard in the last year

8:12

is that it's

8:15

not necessarily how Route

8:17

was killed, it's what happened to her afterwards,

8:20

and that it's much bigger

8:23

than we could ever imagine. That's what people are

8:25

telling us, So we're

8:27

trying to figure out what they mean

8:29

by that. And and the different

8:31

theories that have come into play is one has

8:34

to do with some type of satanic worship or cult,

8:37

some something's you know that could be a possibility.

8:39

Um, there's been mentions of of

8:42

maybe biker motorcycle clubs

8:44

involvement. UM, I won't

8:47

go in specifics because you just don't know if it's

8:49

true. We haven't proved any of that. And then there's

8:51

there's also been mentioned of of cartel

8:54

of Mexican cartel involvement and over drugs

8:56

and stuff. Is that carteller was

8:58

that cartel active at that time in this area.

9:00

They were, They were not and

9:03

not the way that they are in

9:05

today's world with the with the methamphetamine

9:08

trade and things like that. But and again I'm

9:10

not gonna accuse any which

9:12

one of those because I don't know yet. Um,

9:14

but you know, these may be distractions

9:17

as far as we know, we don't. We don't know, but

9:19

there's a lot of things that lead us that point

9:21

to those different possibilities

9:24

with the Satanic worshiping and then

9:26

the drugs and the money, you know, because when

9:29

when people go missing or or get

9:31

killed, you know, funny and drugs and greed,

9:33

you know, lust, those are big reasons

9:36

why people die. Among those three theories,

9:38

is there a front runner or is it impossible

9:41

to say? I think it's impossible to say

9:43

right now. Depends

9:45

on what week it is. And one week we're looking at at

9:48

the theory of the

9:50

Satanic worshiping and the black magic, and

9:53

then uh, the next week something

9:56

points us in a different direction. So we're just

9:58

trying to keep an open mind to all of it and not

10:01

get tunnel vision on it. The one key thing

10:04

we're really missing, it's the body, and that's

10:06

the big, big thing we're missing. I believe

10:09

that if we could find the body, then

10:11

this case would move forward faster. We

10:13

just don't have a body. Talked me

10:16

through how that would be true. So

10:19

when you have a missing person, you

10:21

can't there's no crime. So

10:24

somebody that's missing, there's no crime. If

10:26

you find a body, and then you

10:28

can determine if the person was murdered

10:32

normally, or if they died of natural

10:34

causes or whatever the case may be. Brooke

10:36

could be alive in California right now. Do you think

10:38

that's a possibility. I don't know. I

10:41

don't think that she would have left her mom. Her

10:43

mom and her very close. I

10:45

don't think she would have left her mom or friends.

10:48

And if she had, she would

10:50

have she would have made contact by now. I don't believe

10:52

that's a possibility. So

10:56

the body you were saying, if you could find, if you had

10:58

the body, then what if we

11:00

had the body, that would

11:03

confirm one of the many stories

11:05

we have or theories about how

11:07

she died about maybe,

11:10

for example, if the body

11:13

is in said grave

11:17

and said wooded area, then

11:20

we take it and go back and look at all the tips that came

11:22

in and say, okay, well these ten tips now

11:24

may be true because of where the body's found.

11:26

I see. So it's kind of like putting the putting

11:29

the puzzle together, but we don't have that

11:31

that main piece we need. It's almost like you know how

11:33

the story ends, and then you can work backwards to figure

11:35

out what happens in between. Correct. Correct. We

11:37

believe that in the

11:40

case file the answers are in there. We

11:42

just don't know. It's like a multiple

11:44

choice tests. We don't

11:46

know which one is true. But we believe that the answers

11:49

right there in front of so we just don't know which one's true yet.

11:51

That sounds like that could drive you crazy. Absolutely

11:53

can Absolutely it has been driving

11:55

me crazy for three years. Now. Can

11:59

I ask you why is this so important to

12:01

you? I mean, I get I

12:03

think I understand it. But someone might

12:05

look and say, hey, this happens so long ago. Parents

12:09

are both deceased, Brook appears to be

12:11

deceased. Why why

12:14

is this so important to get to the bottom of this? Because

12:17

this is my hometown, and

12:20

when someone goes missing and

12:23

allegedly something happened to that person, somebody

12:27

needs to fight for justice for her, and

12:31

if the family has passed

12:33

on, there are friends of hers,

12:36

and there's me, and there's this police department that

12:38

will fight for justice for And

12:41

I don't plan on giving up, even

12:44

though it gets frustrating, because someone needs

12:46

to fight for her. And if we don't

12:49

fight for her, then who then who's

12:51

going to fight for the justice for her? If

12:54

this person or those persons killed

12:56

her. We

12:59

want to get to the bottom of it and hold those

13:01

individuals accountable. So it's justice

13:03

is what it's about. For me. I get that. And

13:05

I could also see how it

13:08

in some ways to finds this place and sense of

13:10

like, this is not okay to happen in this

13:12

town, right and we're not gonna

13:14

accept this right exactly, And in twenty

13:17

three years, this is the only cold

13:19

case we have, This is it? We

13:21

don't We don't have a

13:23

lot of violent crime happen here, well,

13:26

you know, and I pride myself on

13:28

that, and I love this city because of

13:30

that. And we're four and a half square miles. It was small.

13:32

We're small, seven thousand residents,

13:35

and we have about five violent crimes a year, which

13:38

I love. But this

13:40

one, you know, if we

13:42

don't try to find out and give it my all.

13:45

I'm gonna try it to the day I retire the best

13:47

I can to try to find out what happened to her. And

13:50

if we don't try, then who John

13:52

Campbell and I and view him today was talking about

13:54

being involved in the early days at this case, and he said

13:56

a few things that were interesting. One he said

13:58

he took over about two years into it, and

14:00

he said all he got were some written

14:02

notes that were pretty hard to make sense of because it was

14:05

pre computer days. And

14:08

he wished that it had been treated

14:10

as a murder right from the beginning. What's your take

14:12

on that. Yeah, you know, anyone that

14:15

looks when you put a new set of eyes on a case

14:17

like this, you can always say, well, why

14:19

didn't they do this, why didn't they do that? And some

14:22

of that's been frustrating for me too, you know,

14:24

wondering why they didn't document it better, or

14:26

why they didn't do this or that. Unfortunately,

14:30

you know, after you spend a couple of days

14:32

worrying about that, you kind of have to let it go

14:34

because it's just not there and you kind of

14:36

move on with what you have. But but John's right

14:38

there there. I wish it had been treated differently.

14:42

But then again, you look at you know, hundreds

14:44

of thousands of people go missing every year in

14:46

this country, and if

14:48

every one of them was treated like a homicide,

14:51

imagine how many officers it would take to, you

14:55

know, follow those cases correctly and work

14:57

them like a homicide. Sure, we may get a missing

14:59

person called this afternoon and then thirty minutes find

15:01

the person, and that's

15:03

the happy ending. We find the person, they're

15:06

safe, and you know, then we may get one

15:08

that maybe another twenty three years

15:10

we haven't found. So you never know how

15:13

it's going to end out. So I guess back then they

15:15

thought it was just another runaway

15:18

and that maybe she just ran away, she'll

15:20

be home in a couple of days. You know, it was kind of thought

15:22

of that way, and you never really know. So

15:24

unfortunately it was

15:26

handled in a way that

15:29

that turned out to not be just another

15:31

runaway. John made a reference to

15:33

an area. Didn't tell me where, but

15:35

that there was a place where they thought the body

15:38

might be. What can you tell me about

15:40

I understand that's sensitive, but what can you tell

15:42

me about about that? There's several

15:44

places mentioned in all of these tips

15:46

that came in where the body may

15:49

be, and some of the places

15:51

are very difficult to navigate.

15:56

If and I'm going to mention just

15:59

a pond for example. Okay,

16:02

if you have a pond and

16:05

over the course of twenty plush years, and

16:08

the pond is in the mound, the sediment

16:11

that rolls that comes down the mountains over

16:13

twenty plush years, gathers in the bottom that pond.

16:15

So the bottom of the pond is not the bottom of the pond

16:17

that it was twenty years ago. Or

16:21

if you have concrete that

16:23

is sixteen feet deep and

16:27

a body is put in concrete fifteen

16:30

feet down, how are

16:32

we ever going to get it? How are we

16:34

going to know it's down there? So these

16:37

things are those hypothetical?

16:39

Are those those are possibilities? Those are actual

16:41

possible possibilities, their possibilities, there's

16:44

real possibilities. But I don't I don't know which one

16:46

is to me. They're all equally

16:48

important to check out. So what do

16:50

you do with those two possibilities.

16:53

Well, you hope that technology comes

16:55

along far enough and you get someone that

16:58

can either volunteer their equipment or

17:00

maybe get the FEDS involved, or maybe Greenville

17:03

County helps out and tries to

17:06

locate you know, a body

17:08

in in these areas. UM.

17:10

So a combination of all those things.

17:12

And then UM,

17:15

you know one you

17:17

know, you think you can drain a pond. You know, ponds

17:19

can be drained, but depends on

17:21

how big the pond is, how deep it is. There's so

17:24

many factors that come into play. UM.

17:28

Concrete, you know, you can't just tear up the concrete

17:30

unless you have something solid to

17:33

to show, yes, that body is down there. So

17:35

then you look at you know, equipment like

17:37

UH or

17:41

penetrating UM, I forget what the solar

17:43

penetrating or you know, the ground

17:45

penetrating radar, that's it ground and you

17:47

look at that and using that, but it's not

17:50

going to show a three D image of a

17:52

body or bones. It may just show

17:54

avoid you know. So technology,

17:57

it depends on technology, It depends

17:59

on and and I do believe that if we were ever to find

18:01

a body, UM, then you do you

18:03

have DNA possibilities. You

18:05

know, Now, if there's anything with the

18:07

body, maybe we find one of these suspects

18:10

DNA in there with it. You know, So that type

18:12

of thing. That's why I mentioned the body's important right

18:14

now. But um, you've got whales.

18:16

People have said she's been put in a whale. Well

18:20

in the country, there's lots of

18:22

whales and if and to

18:24

look in whales, we had to We've looked in

18:26

one whale. We had to get a camera

18:28

from a local um

18:31

a company, drop it down about

18:33

fifty feet and look around in that whale. And of course

18:35

we didn't find anything. But there's a

18:37

lot that goes into trying to use the equipment

18:39

and check out these places. It seems

18:42

it seems overwhelming very much. So it

18:45

is I go home with this, I think about it

18:47

all the time. I have

18:49

to try to set it aside because I have a family,

18:52

you know, I have to try to set it aside and just not

18:54

think about it all the time. But when you

18:57

open up this Pandora's box of

18:59

of what happened to Brooke, then

19:02

you know there's fifty

19:05

people that have my work cell phone number

19:07

and they'll call me weekends

19:10

nights if they have information. They don't

19:12

mind calling, and I don't mind them calling me because I want to

19:14

try to get everybody involved I can to

19:16

see if we can, you know, find out. But it weighs

19:18

on me a little bit. I think I've had

19:21

hair turned gray and turned loose a lot over the past

19:23

couple of years, given me both.

19:28

I mean, the other thing that seems that they would kind of

19:31

mess with my head is that there

19:33

are folks walking around this town. You said,

19:35

you said, one of the first things you said we said this interview

19:37

is they're not a lot of secrets in this town.

19:40

And yet we're talking about maybe

19:42

the biggest secret right here. Because if

19:44

what you're saying is right, there may be multiple

19:47

people who know what happened to her.

19:49

Now. I believe that. I believe multiple people know. I

19:51

believe in my mind six

19:54

eight ten people know what happened to her. And

19:56

I believe there were accomplices and there were people

19:59

that helped help

20:02

move the body or help you know, bear

20:05

the body. There's I believe

20:07

a lot of people know. However, the people that

20:09

they're scared of, the

20:12

ones above them that are run

20:14

that we're running the show back then, or that they

20:16

help control over them, that's why

20:18

they can't tell. And I believe a lot of the people that are several

20:20

of the people that know are dead now. Ricky Shawn

20:22

Shirley, he's dead now, and I

20:25

believe he knew what happened to her. It sounds like your

20:27

investigation would be helped by support

20:30

from the county and maybe even the FEDS. Yeah,

20:33

And to be honest with you, the FEDS have been

20:35

here, They've talked to us, they're assisting us on

20:37

some things. The FBI

20:39

is they've worked with us a little bit

20:41

when a halftime. The county has

20:44

helped us on some things with

20:46

some searches of some areas outside

20:48

of our jurisdiction here in the city. We

20:51

do not believe our bodies in this city. We believe

20:53

it's out in the county. All

20:55

these different locations that that Dopu mentioned as

20:57

possibilities that they're all out in the county. Yeah,

21:02

talk to me about a little bit about the

21:04

Aster Reid situation. Obviously that's first

21:07

of all, you weren't here in Champa's rest and it's

21:09

kind of peripheral to to brock

21:11

Hanston's story. But do

21:13

you remember that unfolding at the time, What were thoughts

21:16

about about all that? I do remember

21:18

that unfolding, and when that happened,

21:21

it really piqued my interest, and

21:23

I actually called John back

21:25

then and I said, John, what's going

21:28

on? Is this a possibility, and

21:30

he said, I'm checking, I'm

21:32

checking, let me check, And I said,

21:34

do what you gotta do. You know, I'm just because

21:37

I knew John worked

21:39

here. Um. I was an investigator

21:41

in another agency at the time, and it really

21:43

piqued my interest that Now, when you say a possibility,

21:45

do you mean that that that this was really Brooke Hanson.

21:48

It was up in New York at Columbia, right right?

21:50

I mean it would it would have been um, it would

21:52

have been very interesting. Um.

21:55

You know, one tip back then

21:58

in the Brooke Henston case was that

22:00

that she left and went to California,

22:02

and she just ran away to California and wanted to be on her

22:04

own. So it was feasible

22:06

that she could have possibly went to New York, you

22:08

know, and stayed up there, so that it

22:11

was a possibility. But then it didn't take

22:13

much checking to determine the truth, obviously,

22:15

But but it did pique

22:18

my interest in the case, and I was

22:20

very curious at the time and talked with John

22:22

about it a little bit back then. What

22:24

I mean, there was for a brief

22:27

while there was a ton of media attention, mainly

22:30

ons to read, but probably also spill over

22:32

into Broke Hanson. Me. Look here, I am all these years

22:34

later. What did that do for

22:37

the case? Between two thousand, Between

22:40

about two thousand and I

22:43

guess two thousand and six, there

22:46

was hardly anything done

22:48

on this case. Very little.

22:51

John did a little bit, but there wasn't a lot to go

22:53

on. When Esther read happened,

22:56

all kinds of tips started coming in after that,

22:59

so they determined that Esther Reid was Ester Reid,

23:01

not Brooke Henson. But then more tips came in

23:03

and more tip It brought more attention. It brought it back to

23:06

life, so to say. And that's

23:08

kind of what I did when I came in twenty

23:10

eight, twenty nineteen, kind of bring it back

23:12

to life. So it was very

23:14

it was good attention. It was sad

23:16

that it happened the way it did, but it was it

23:19

kind of brought it back to life. And

23:21

and uh so, so the friends

23:23

of hers wouldn't forget, so the community

23:25

wouldn't forget. And as

23:27

far as

23:29

as as long as I'm here, um, we'll

23:32

use our social media to always remind

23:34

the community will never forget. I was surprised

23:36

that you reached out to me in all my years as a

23:38

journalist. I don't think I know a case where

23:40

the law enforcement reached out. I mean, this

23:43

is a missing person, but clearly

23:45

this must be part of your mission. It

23:47

is, and transparency is

23:49

what I'm all about. I don't

23:52

mind sharing. Of course, you know there's

23:54

details of the case. I can obviously and you understand

23:56

why. But why hide

23:59

We need the we need help. If if if

24:01

one of your listeners here's here's

24:03

this and says, you know what. I know the truth

24:05

and I'm tired of you know

24:07

it needs to come out now, and it'd be great.

24:10

And like I said earlier, if if we don't

24:12

care, who's going to care? If

24:14

I retire from here in whatever year

24:16

I retire, it

24:19

may be the end of it. Maybe nobody picks up, maybe

24:21

nobody messes with it anymore. It's just

24:23

my mentality. I don't want to let it go. Do

24:25

you think you're going to solve it today?

24:33

It feels like I'm not. Why

24:35

do you say that? Because tomorrow

24:37

it may change And one

24:39

day I feel like I will, and the next day I feel

24:41

like I want it based on what information

24:44

has come in that day that has changed my mind. And

24:49

last week there's some information

24:51

that came in, I felt really good about Today

24:55

I don't feel as good about it. So this

24:57

is unlike any other case I've ever worked. I

24:59

could work a case and I could tell you with one hundred

25:01

percent certainty, I'm gonna solve this case, or

25:04

with one hundred percent certainty, there's no way I

25:06

can solve this case because I don't have any evidence

25:09

in this case. There's a plethora

25:12

of information, but we

25:14

don't have a body. Yeah, I honestly

25:16

think that we won't solve this case unless we have

25:19

a body. After

25:21

speaking with Ben Ford, I spent the

25:23

next several months reporting this story,

25:26

making the season that you just heard, But

25:29

I never stopped thinking about Ben and

25:31

the enormity of the task that he faced.

25:34

Part of me hope that maybe after

25:36

the podcast came out he might get

25:38

some new leads. So

25:41

when our last episode dropped, I called

25:43

him up to check in. That's

25:45

next after the break? Any

26:00

you there? Yeah, I hear you that. How are you

26:02

any good? How are you I'm good, I'm good.

26:05

I want to check in with you on a few things. So it sounds

26:07

like you had a chance to to listen

26:09

to the podcast. I wondered, like, what

26:12

your reactions were. You know, I really enjoyed

26:14

it. I didn't know a lot

26:16

about Esther Reid in that case,

26:19

just for what John Campbell told me and

26:22

what I read in the news. I mean, I

26:24

was very surprised that you

26:27

had a conversation with Esther and I

26:29

loved hearing what

26:31

was going on in her mind. What

26:34

did you make of this kind of new stage

26:36

of her life where she's after Matthews and she's

26:38

a professor atak and Zaga. What did you what

26:41

did you make of that? Well, you know,

26:44

hearing where she came from and what she

26:46

went through and you know when she was younger.

26:49

You know, it just showed me and it

26:51

confirmed that anybody, know, anybody

26:53

can do what they put their mind to. And

26:56

she chose to live one way and do

26:59

certain things a certain way for a long time,

27:01

and then she decided to do it a different way.

27:03

I'd love to see when

27:05

people actually turned their lives

27:08

around, and there's six more successful

27:11

than they were when they were making bad

27:13

decisions. So I thought it was great. I thought

27:15

it was a great story. Oh, I appreciate

27:18

that. I'm wondering if, since the podcast

27:20

came out, whether any additional

27:23

tips or bits of information have come your way.

27:26

We haven't, not since the not since

27:28

the podcast has come out. Ironically,

27:31

though, before the podcast was released,

27:35

I did have a man contact

27:37

me from our county's attencive Center and

27:41

we talked with him and eventually

27:44

we got him in here and he gave

27:46

us some information and he actually

27:48

said I knew where Brooke is

27:51

buried whoa And

27:53

we said, well, how do you know that? And

27:56

he said, well, I heard two

27:58

people talking about it and they said

28:01

where she was buried at? I said,

28:03

can you take us to the spot, and he said

28:06

yes, I said, let's go. So

28:09

we went to the spot. Um, it

28:11

was on a piece of property that

28:13

belongs to a

28:16

family that the mom and

28:18

dad are deceased there.

28:20

So the sister was in charge of the property

28:23

and gave us permission to look on the property. So we

28:25

went on the property. He pointed out the location.

28:29

We put him back in the vehicle away

28:31

from the scene, and we brought in cadaver dog.

28:35

Cadaver dog alerted. So

28:38

we took that dog away and we brought another

28:40

dog in and that dog at

28:44

what is that when you said cadaver dog alerted?

28:46

What does that mean? Exactly? So that

28:49

means they picked

28:51

up what they believed

28:54

to be the

28:56

scent of decayed

28:58

body or bones. Now

29:01

it's it's not a it's not a

29:03

perfect science, and

29:06

it's it's not an absolute So

29:09

that's why we use two different dogs, and we had

29:11

a statement from somebody, so we

29:14

used all of that in order to get

29:17

a search warrant for the property. Well,

29:21

Greeble County came out and helped, and we

29:23

dug and found nothing. So

29:28

we kind of like climax there, thinking we

29:30

were gonna we were on something and we didn't

29:32

find one ball, nothing and we dug

29:34

a lot big area.

29:37

Do you think this was at the time where you like

29:39

this this is in or were you we use skeptical

29:42

You know, I try to not to get my hopes

29:45

up, um and I I try

29:47

not to show that I get my hopes up because I've been

29:49

let down so many times, you know. But

29:51

in this case, you know, I thought there was gonna

29:53

be something. I thought, yeah, this is a

29:55

very good possibility. Let's let's find

29:57

her. And and

30:00

so I did think it was, but I

30:02

didn't want to show too much enthusiasm

30:06

due to the fact I've been let down so many times. So

30:09

when we found out it wasn't, I was disappointed.

30:11

But then yet again, it's another lead that

30:13

we've checked off. Wow, it's

30:16

true. It's it's like, you don't

30:19

know, you have to follow up every lead. I

30:21

guess that seems even remotely

30:24

credible. I guess right, that's the only Yeah,

30:27

and you know, we we

30:29

were hesitant to listen to him at first, But

30:34

anytime somebody says I

30:36

know where the body's at, I can show you. I mean, we've

30:38

got to go. We've got to go with it and we've got

30:40

to check it out. Um. But

30:43

that's that's the most we've done

30:45

with the case. In the past few months.

30:48

I've had people ask me too, whether you're

30:50

any further along than they beginning some ground

30:52

penetrating radar at the at the water

30:55

treatment plan. So

30:57

you know, I did some more research and I found

30:59

a company and they

31:02

volunteer their services to law enforce in all

31:04

of the country and they have

31:07

ground penetrating radar. So who

31:09

are I'm planning to call? Nick? Yeah, please let let

31:11

me know how let me know how that goes, whether I

31:14

mean, if that ends up happening,

31:16

or just stay in touch with me. I'd be curious. I really

31:18

wouldn't be curious. Look is so so

31:21

by far to you again and you'll have

31:23

a good weekend there, Okay, take care of Ben.

31:25

Bye bye, thank ye. Talking

31:29

to Ben and getting this update on the

31:31

investigation, it really hit

31:33

home for me how there were all these

31:35

leads, all these people who claim to

31:37

know what happened to Brooke, and

31:40

how each time one of these leads

31:42

surfaced he had to take it seriously,

31:45

and that inevitably part of him hoped

31:47

that this one might be the breakthrough,

31:50

the one that helped him solve the case and

31:52

at long last bring some closure

31:54

and some healing to this town. But

31:58

so far it was just dead ends

32:00

and heartbreak, and then inevitably

32:03

a new lead and the cycle would begin

32:05

again. I could see how,

32:07

after so many years, this would

32:10

all take a toll on everyone. And

32:12

yet He's still added, we'll

32:17

keep you updated if we hear anything else from

32:19

the Travelers RESTPD. Then

32:22

Ford is still working diligently on the Brookenson

32:24

case. So if you have

32:27

any new information at all that might be

32:29

helpful, please contact him

32:31

at Ford at tr police

32:33

dot com. That's fr D

32:36

at tr police dot

32:38

com.

32:45

Deep Cover is produced by Amy Gaines

32:47

and Jacob Smith. This episode

32:49

was edited by Sophie Crane, mastering

32:52

by Sarah Bruger. Our

32:54

show art was designed by Sean Karney.

32:57

Original scoring and our theme was

32:59

composed by Luis Gera

33:01

Special thanks to Karen Shakergie Mia

33:04

Loobelle, Greta Khne and Jacob

33:06

Weisberg. I'm Jake

33:08

Halper