0:00

By the way, in case you haven't heard, my brand

0:02

new book, Feel Good Productivity is now out. It is

0:04

available everywhere books are sold. And it's actually hit the

0:06

New York Times and also the Sunday Times Best Seller

0:08

list. So thank you to everyone who's already got a

0:11

copy of the book. If you've read the book already,

0:13

I would love a review on Amazon. And if you

0:15

haven't yet checked it out, you may like to check

0:17

it out. It's available in physical format and also ebook

0:19

and also audio book everywhere books are sold. All

0:22

right, Ravi, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much, excited

0:24

to be here. Yeah, this is so cool. So this

0:27

is kind of random. So we're in Paris at the moment and

0:29

I discovered your YouTube channel about three weeks ago and binge

0:31

the shit out of a lot of your videos. And

0:34

then I commented on a bunch of them and felt like

0:36

a bit of a groupie to be like, just like commenting

0:38

on like, this is a really good video, really good video.

0:40

And I was sending your videos across to various members of

0:42

my team. And then you DM'd me on Instagram, but I

0:44

didn't see it, but you DM'd Angus as well. And Angus

0:46

was like, do you know this Ravi guy? And then you

0:48

very kindly invited us to Paris to hang out at your

0:50

mastermind. So thanks for having us. So thank you for having

0:52

me on here. Yeah, it's pretty funny. I've been following

0:55

your stuff for a while, like we were

0:57

just talking about before here. And then you

0:59

were feeling like a fangirl when you messaged me,

1:01

but it's so funny. When you messaged me, my girlfriend

1:03

and I were like, fangirling like, Ali messaged us, Ali.

1:06

We're like, oh, we're doing something right. And because

1:08

I was coming here, it's just funny how the universe works.

1:11

I was coming here a week later. I

1:13

was even more of a fangirl at that point. And I

1:15

was like, I emailed you, I Instagram messaged you. I was

1:17

like, I want to meet up with you in person. And

1:21

then you weren't answering. So then I was just like, you know, I

1:23

started my whole business doing cold outreach to total strangers. So

1:25

I was like, all right, if you can't get the CEO,

1:28

you can get the next person in line. So then I found Angus's Instagram

1:30

and I liked like 10 of his photos. I sent him a message and

1:33

I was like, Ali, Ali should know who I am.

1:35

Just tell him it's Ravi and then here we are.

1:38

So I'm so glad you messaged Angus because I'm actually

1:40

in between assistants and we're doing an email, email handoff.

1:43

It probably slipped through the cracks there. And obviously I never

1:45

checked my Instagram. You probably also get like hundreds of messages

1:47

of people like, oh, Ali, I want to hang out. So

1:49

I also, I figured I could slip through the cracks. So

1:51

for people who might not be familiar with who you are,

1:53

can we get the quick kind of life story? Yeah. What's

1:56

the backstory? I'll give you like a super simple one. So

1:59

was. We're going to be a

2:01

lawyer. That was like a plan similar obvious with med

2:03

school. I come from an Indian background so was like

2:05

either a doctor or lawyer or a engineer and I

2:07

to lock as I'd watched every episode alone order and

2:09

suits and I thought of those what being a lawyer

2:12

was about. And then com I

2:14

graduate from college and in a just like the

2:16

and cats in law school you that if the

2:18

else at as the number one determinant of where

2:20

your law school in that's no moon terminate of

2:22

like how much money making your whole life. So

2:24

I decided to take a year off of college

2:26

to study for the else and then take the

2:28

test and go to law school or but about

2:30

five days after I graduated my dad was diagnosed

2:32

with stage four lung cancer posts at in remission.

2:35

Now I'm like are grateful are by I ended

2:37

up having to like Stop It I was doing

2:39

moved in with him in Atlanta and then spent

2:41

the next year Don't chemo and radiation. Was that

2:43

he for the Alsace? It was kind of.

2:45

just during this whole experience I realize like

2:47

I'm. Actually, up into that point which

2:49

I was twenty three years old, I'd never

2:51

actually spoken to a lawyer about going to law school.

2:54

everybody those on go to law school where all my

2:56

family members and none of them were lawyers and of

2:58

course I just wanted the best thing for me or

3:00

they want to meet he gets a job and so

3:02

I ended up as I was nearing the else out

3:04

as that of the talk to a few lawyers and

3:06

all of them were like do not be a lawyer

3:08

averaging one of them like absolutely.it's like a different world

3:11

now that was that fence and so I ended up

3:13

taking the else. I guess I'd pretty much. Practice.

3:15

My whole life for toward the top thirteen percent

3:17

of percentile so I did well got my my

3:20

dream schools by ultimately came downstairs one day until

3:22

my dad i wasn't going to law school which

3:24

that gonna grid a liberal rift in our relationship

3:26

right as he felt like also my life away.

3:28

Then I started working an Italian restaurant you know

3:30

So I went from like going to top and

3:32

last woman asian to literally working at the Sally

3:35

restaurant. I am street. Why? Figure myself

3:37

out some at a long story short. But.

3:39

An online course. I was fine so I'm a big

3:41

fan of online courses was title of as as as

3:43

a make or know there's no one Yeah so's I

3:46

just put the rest of my money on a credit

3:48

card. For that You're one of those people I was

3:50

an outside of has caused an acrylic older and I

3:52

and this I took me awhile to do. It is

3:54

what I did as I watched the web and or

3:56

and then I would screenshot all the testimonials that he

3:59

was showing the webinar. And then I would individually

4:01

message all those people on Instagram and Facebook and I'd

4:03

be like. A. Is this legit? Like are you

4:05

really making ten thousand dollars a month and they would

4:07

opt? I guess I am I going on cause of

4:09

them and you know it's kind of like that thing

4:11

where it is you see somebody else doing it. It

4:13

makes you believe that you can do it as well

4:15

as so I went all and I bought. It's to

4:17

be a year to give. My first clients was my

4:20

girlfriend's at the time her dad was a plastic surgeon

4:22

or and then once I got efforts Klein it was

4:24

like okay I now know. That. This is

4:26

possible I can do this and I just went

4:28

all in a skill that some to muscles and

4:30

figures a year were serving real said agents. By.

4:33

It's iconic, got a little bit turned off

4:35

by the real stayed like advertising agency worlds.

4:38

And then I started my company Now

4:40

School Systems, which is where we essentially

4:43

build marketing systems for companies and

4:45

we worked with some over two thousand

4:47

misses the past three years. And

4:50

it's funny because I just as have this conversation

4:53

last night. But. Even. Now we're launching

4:55

or membership like the community that were talking earlier

4:57

and that's like subscription revenue and so I just

4:59

feel like every single step of the way I've

5:01

just been helping my vehicle, I think that one

5:03

of people work really hard and nice, but I

5:05

feel like a lot of people miss out on.

5:08

Of finding the right vehicle inward and thus or time

5:10

energy and effort into shows like. First. It

5:12

was going to be a lawyer and that was a

5:15

decent vehicle but then it was like a than oh

5:17

sorry an advertising agency that was a better vehicles. Then

5:19

it was starting school systems and that's an even better

5:21

vehicles and now I see what's happening with subscription services,

5:23

membership sides and I think that's even better view. Got

5:26

to that and my friend some I spy on exactly

5:28

my final and goal would be some from for that

5:30

was actually working on ice many with the Nathan Buried

5:32

blog post yeah not as about for yeah I'm wearing

5:34

a video about it like next week. I love I've

5:37

been living a hit breathing the ladders and turning into

5:39

scrap booking the my team for life and of how

5:41

do we describe. It to the exactly this

5:43

point about. like you graduate to different vehicle gaffe

5:45

an editor at each different states is at each

5:47

different lot at as a whole new set of

5:49

skills. I'm. Okay, let's

5:52

remember episode You're You're twenty three.

5:54

You. Spoken to these lawyers. You decide that. Law.

5:57

School isn't for me. Like. sell it

6:00

Most people listening to this have can

6:02

probably relate to that idea of like, you know, this is certainly

6:04

my story where it's like You've

6:07

got the option of doing like a very

6:09

sensible thing Like what

6:11

was you what was your psychology that just let you think

6:14

screw it? I'm gonna work in Italian restaurant Yes, it's

6:16

actually it's kind of funny because my entire identity up

6:18

into that point was like I was gonna be a

6:20

lawyer So it wasn't an easy I made it seem

6:22

easy in that quick story, but it really wasn't an

6:25

easy process Yeah, because like I

6:27

think human beings The number one thing

6:29

we try to do is be aligned with who we think

6:31

we are like and so it's always difficult to break From

6:33

that and I had told everybody for the past 18 years

6:35

that this is who I wanted to be I wanted to

6:37

be a lawyer. So it's like for me to break for

6:39

that. It was kind of a big deal, but I Actually,

6:42

I always tell people that I think the big breaking

6:45

point for me was I read a book the subtle

6:47

art of not giving A fuck by Mark Manson And

6:49

I just realized that like if I did this I

6:52

was really doing it for other people and I could

6:54

actually end up Resenting like, you know, my father or

6:56

some of these people that were really wanting me to

6:58

go to law school Once again,

7:00

not against them at all But like if I didn't

7:02

know what the best thing was for me How could

7:04

somebody else know what the best thing was for me

7:07

and I just felt like okay. I had no girlfriend.

7:09

I had no Like house

7:11

payment. I had no essentially the past year

7:13

I became a ghost because all I did was chemo

7:16

and radiation with my dad five days a week and

7:18

then any free time I had I was either at

7:20

the gym or I was I

7:22

was studying for law school So, I mean I didn't I

7:24

looked at my phone. I maybe send 10 text messages that

7:26

year to other people I mean it was like I was

7:28

a so it was very I realized that I probably would

7:30

never be in this unique situation again where The world had

7:33

kind of forgotten about me somewhat and like I could kind

7:35

of create whoever I wanted to at that point and I

7:38

knew that law school was like two hundred thousand dollars plus at least law

7:40

school is gonna go to So I just decided

7:43

you know what? I'm gonna give this a go for 12

7:45

months if I can't do it I can always especially because

7:47

I already took the LSAT I can always go back to

7:49

law school I can justify it was a gap year or

7:51

something like that And like

7:53

I didn't quote-unquote burn the boats I just was like took

7:55

a step in and this other direction a little bit and

7:58

then when I got my first client I

8:00

just realized right then and there, it was like, my

8:02

first client was $3,000 a month, and I had

8:04

made $2,000 the previous month working for

8:07

this restaurant, and it was just right then and

8:09

there, I was like, all right, I can go

8:11

all in on that, and I was like, I'm

8:13

never gonna go back to law school. Nice, so

8:15

then, where did the idea to start

8:17

a social media marketing agency come from? And, okay,

8:20

so my, I don't

8:22

know much about this space. So, because when I was

8:25

Googling how to make money online, this was when I

8:27

was like 15, and it was like niche affiliate sites,

8:29

and it was paid surveys, and that

8:31

was about it. And then I learned to code

8:33

and tried to build websites and stuff, but it seems like

8:35

the next wave was Amazon FBA drop

8:37

shipping social media marketing agency, and

8:40

now the next wave seems to be start a membership site on

8:42

school, or something to that effect. So,

8:44

what was it that took you down the rabbit hole

8:46

of, I'm gonna start a social media marketing agency? Pretty

8:49

much exactly what you had said. I was getting hit

8:51

with ads, of like how do you make money online,

8:53

and the really turning point for me of like me

8:56

doing the social media marketing agency was, I

8:58

had seen all these ads, like you said, it was like the thing that

9:00

was happening at the time. And you couldn't avoid it if you

9:02

were like between the ages of 18 and 28, you

9:05

were getting hit by these people's ads. And so

9:07

I was like, oh, maybe I should do it. I talked

9:09

to all these people, and then one of

9:11

my fraternity brothers, who I went to college with,

9:14

I remember him and his dad posting all of

9:17

these screenshots of all these social media marketing clients

9:19

that they were getting, there was these trucking companies.

9:22

And he was, he's a super awesome guy, but like,

9:24

did I think that he was the most talented person

9:26

in the world? Like, no, I didn't think so by

9:28

any means. And I mean, he was just like

9:30

me. And so I remember specifically,

9:33

they had made this post, I

9:35

was thinking about doing the social media marketing agency, I reached out to

9:37

him, and I kept on seeing his dad post about all this stuff.

9:40

And I said, hey, man, I see your

9:42

dad owns his social media marketing agency, I see that you work

9:44

with him, do you mind if I have a call with him,

9:46

so I can ask him some questions about, should I do it

9:48

for myself, et cetera, et cetera. And he

9:50

said, oh, no, no, no, it's my social media marketing agency,

9:52

my dad works for me. And

9:54

it was like, that hit me, I was just like, oh

9:56

my God, I was like, if this guy

9:58

can do it, there's absolutely no reason why. why I can't do

10:00

it. And I was attached to no, I could

10:03

have I tried drop shipping, you know, I tried

10:05

everything, I was attached to nothing. But the reason

10:07

why and it's actually where I always tell people

10:09

to kind of start a little bit, even I

10:11

don't always recommend starting in like a coaching world

10:13

as well, because I like done for you services,

10:15

because like, they have no capital to start, it

10:17

only requires your time. And it's very

10:19

easy to sell a done for you service versus something

10:21

else, like maybe a coaching along those lines. So it

10:23

was very easy for me to go to people and

10:25

say, I'm going to pretty much become your slave and

10:28

like I'll do it. I mean, I was like, adjusting

10:31

websites, writing email sequences, posting on their social media

10:33

content, creating sales funnels, walking their dog, taking their

10:35

kids to school, it was like anything that I

10:37

could to get a client. Yeah. And that so

10:39

I went down that rabbit hole. And then I

10:41

just I kept getting positive feedback loops as I

10:43

signed more and more clients. And I was like,

10:45

All right, this is what I'm gonna do for

10:47

the next person in the future. That's interesting. Yeah,

10:49

like, don't be services

10:51

like these these days, whenever I interview entrepreneurs and

10:53

ask the question of like, okay, if you had

10:55

to make 100 grand a year, how would you

10:57

do it? It's always service based agency. Sure. That

11:00

serves other businesses. Yep. Which is just

11:02

not how normal people think unless you've been hit with

11:04

all these ads and you've really drunk the Kool-Aid. Because

11:07

I guess whenever I thought

11:09

about making money, I always seemed to have to sell

11:11

something to people that were like me. Yeah, other kids

11:13

and other consumers and other people in med school. And

11:16

you can't really make a solid business trying to sell

11:18

to students who don't who don't have any money. And

11:20

switching from selling to consumers to selling to businesses, suddenly,

11:23

it's like, Oh, okay, that makes a world of difference.

11:25

Yeah. And a lot of it is about who is

11:27

the person you're selling to rather than I rather than

11:29

anything else. Like if you're selling to someone who's a

11:31

plastic surgeon and has a business and wants to make

11:34

money, so much easier to charge almost anything for a

11:36

service that can help them make more money. Yeah, it's

11:38

it's definitely I've always like even skill and systems, like

11:40

I said, we predominantly help people build marketing systems will

11:43

help with operations and client success and all that stuff.

11:45

But I'd say 90% of our clients have been in

11:47

marketing. Yeah, I've always kind of fell in the realm

11:49

of like, if you can help other people make more

11:51

money, then you can make more money. And then of

11:54

course, going back to vehicles, it's like, okay, if I

11:56

help a med student, like, for

11:58

example, let's say I help a med student get into a

12:00

better medical school, like I have a client that does

12:02

that, you can charge some money for that for sure,

12:05

because that med school probably determines where they're going to

12:07

do residency, where they're how much money they're going to

12:09

make, etc, etc. But it's like, they're not going to

12:11

really make money for years down the road. And even

12:13

then they're like, you know, whatever, hundreds of thousands of

12:15

dollars in debt that they're trying to pay off, they

12:17

already don't have any money. So it's

12:20

like, you know, there's a saying, you can

12:22

do anything, but you can't do everything. And so I

12:24

think that I think that not enough people spend, and

12:26

this is, I obviously wasn't thinking about this

12:28

when I did this, right? But now looking

12:30

back, I think that not enough people don't spend

12:32

enough time strategizing there. Everyone's like the tactician, actually,

12:34

the YouTube video on this, but everyone's more of

12:36

a tactician than they are a strategist. So a

12:38

tactician is like trying to win the battle, and

12:41

a strategist is trying to win the war. And

12:43

so if you're like, Okay, if I could do

12:45

anything, should I serve this medical student that I

12:47

could help and my value to them is like,

12:49

it could be the exact same amount of work, but it's

12:51

maybe worth $100 or $500. Or should

12:54

I help somebody else where, if I

12:56

help them, it's worth $10,000 or $50,000. And that's why

13:00

even for scaling with systems, primarily

13:02

our clients are coaches, agencies, online

13:04

service providers, like influencers, content creators,

13:07

because for them, super high margins,

13:09

pretty usually typically high ticket, their

13:12

sales cycle is short. So

13:14

I think like people should spend a little bit more time around

13:16

that. And then they'll be able to like, once

13:18

again, exact same amount of work, maybe even less work, and

13:20

you can charge a little bit more. It's

13:23

interesting you say that I might be on

13:25

this is that at the start, people spending

13:28

too much time strategizing. Because I know so many people,

13:30

a lot of people in my audience have been dreaming

13:32

of starting their own business for years and have done

13:34

all the research, but have never actually tried to make

13:36

the first sale or ask for that first dollar. And

13:39

I think the zero to one of just getting started

13:41

by like the thing I'll tell people is like, just

13:43

get started with anything, walk the local dog. Like I

13:45

couldn't care less. Sure, sell private tutoring to medical students.

13:47

It's not the business you're gonna stay in. Sure. But

13:49

it's a great very good business to start in. Because

13:51

then you realize, okay, this is how you ask people

13:53

for money to say make website. And

13:55

then at that point, a mistake, a

13:57

mistake I made. I think I

13:59

was was too action

14:01

focused. And that really served me in the early

14:04

days because everyone else didn't even get started. But

14:06

then I just kept on being too action focused and

14:08

didn't have enough time, or didn't create the time to

14:10

zoom out and really think about like, what's the goal

14:13

here? What's the strategy? How am I getting there? And

14:15

I only now know this in hindsight. So now I

14:17

spend a lot of time doing that because that's the

14:19

thing that needs the needle for the business. Yeah, you

14:22

actually made a really great point. I guess I'm really

14:24

talking to the second stage Ravi of AppRAD started the

14:26

business. I think if I had been too much of

14:28

a strategist in the very beginning, like, oh, am I

14:31

gonna do this business or this business? For me, it

14:33

was like literally survival. I was like, I have to

14:35

make money at this point. I can't keep on working

14:37

at the Italian restaurant. So I think that's super valid.

14:39

But just like you said, it's like, you

14:42

put it perfectly. I'm sure you have like a broad

14:44

swath of people that are in your audience, but

14:47

it's like in the very beginning you just do

14:49

anything you can to make money. But then at

14:51

some time, we've been rewarded up until that point

14:53

by just like taking immediate action, not thinking like

14:56

imperfect implementation and like not taking a step back.

14:59

This is all in my YouTube video. I said the same thing. I

15:01

said, actually in the past year, I'd say, or

15:03

the two years, my biggest mistake is not taking a

15:05

step back. And there's a famous quote. It's like, you're

15:08

always building two businesses. The business you have right now

15:10

and the business you have in the future. And I

15:12

think that in the past two years, I've been so

15:14

focused on the business that I had right now that

15:16

I wasn't thinking about the business in the future. And

15:18

that's when the landscape starts changing, competitors

15:20

enter the landscape, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah,

15:23

I think the order of operations would be like,

15:25

whatever you need to do to get started. But

15:27

then, and I'm sure people are like, okay, how

15:29

long until I start strategizing and there's no right

15:31

answer. But the answer is probably sooner than

15:33

you think after you get started. Oh, mate, like

15:35

the last two years of my life has also

15:37

been move fast, break

15:40

things like, okay, we've got the book coming out, working on

15:42

the book. We've just released this YouTube course and now that's

15:44

doing well. Oh, shit, okay, cool. Well, let's start a high

15:46

ticket thing because I'm gonna switch it to Evergreen and let's

15:48

sort of build the systems. And we'll,

15:50

shit, we've got 300 people in. So we're sort of

15:52

building the systems while also selling the cruise ship. And

15:54

it's like, everyone, like customer success team is fighting fires

15:56

at all the time. And we're like, now it's

15:59

like, I was... So, we were having this conversation

16:01

with Angus like two days ago, because I hadn't seen your latest

16:03

video. And I was saying to him, you know, he was

16:05

like, everyone in the team is feeling overwhelmed. It feels like we're

16:07

doing all these things all at the same time, because

16:09

our goal is to go from 5 million to 10 million. I

16:12

was thinking, I feel like we need to

16:14

switch our operation from move fast and break things to go

16:16

slow to go fast. And actually taking

16:18

a period of maybe a few months to figure out

16:20

our systems and our operations and get our client success,

16:23

people like not fighting fires and being a bit

16:25

more proactive, getting ourselves and marketing engine up

16:27

and running. We're switching from ConvertKit to HubSpot to be able to track

16:29

leads and stuff. We're doing that same switch right now. Oh, no, I

16:31

hear you. All of this shit is just taking time. And

16:33

then we're like, oh, but should we pause

16:35

sales calls? And it's like, our

16:37

sales are down because we haven't been taking sales calls

16:39

because we've been revamping the offer and the back end

16:41

fulfillment and stuff. And it's like, it's actually okay to

16:44

pause sales for a little bit so that we can do

16:46

this, because we know we can always drive leads

16:48

further down the line. But let's like, the

16:50

analogy is, I find myself saying is that let's build the

16:53

cruise ship before we try and sell tickets for the cruise

16:55

ship. I suppose we can always build a wait list. Even

16:59

then. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because

17:03

it's like, I think that that's probably if I

17:05

had to tell you the biggest difference I see

17:07

between like a seven and an eight bigger entrepreneur,

17:09

it's probably their ability to prioritize. And

17:11

because as you start making

17:13

more money, and you start building a bigger audience, you

17:15

just have so many opportunities that come at you. And

17:17

it's just so easy for you to be like, let

17:19

me do this thing over here. I'll make a little

17:21

bit of money here. Let me do this thing over

17:23

here. But pretty soon you kind of have this Frankenstein

17:25

situation going on. And then you're making a little bit

17:27

of money in a lot of places versus a lot

17:29

of money in maybe one or two places. And

17:32

I also think that like people mistake a value ladder,

17:34

they think that they have a value ladder, but in

17:36

reality, they just have like four different types of businesses,

17:39

they may play and feed into each other. But

17:41

in my opinion, a true value ladder is essentially

17:43

the same thing, which is varying levels of support.

17:45

That's like to me, that's a real value ladder.

17:47

They're like buying, it's the same acts

17:50

of the same stuff, but you're going to get one on

17:52

one help, you're going to get coaching calls versus just like

17:54

maybe the course itself. And that makes

17:56

things so much easier when you are trying to

17:58

scale and you're dealing with client success. and fulfillment

18:00

because all the things that you're talking about

18:02

we've gone through or are going through in our end and

18:05

I think another mistake that people make is

18:07

when you go back it's kind of going back to prioritization

18:10

if you're always so focused on like I need to make

18:12

more cash this month than I did last month which is

18:14

really what everybody wants to do all the time obviously which

18:16

is great but at the same time it kind of sometimes

18:18

to play these longer term games like if you want to

18:20

be here in a year two years three years you kind

18:23

of do have to like pull up on the reins and

18:25

maybe fix some of the stuff going on and it's it's

18:27

really difficult in our world I think to do that and

18:29

I think there's things that you can do to like mitigate

18:31

it a little bit as well but yeah

18:33

like first we talked about it when we first came here

18:36

but like now I won't start something unless

18:38

I think it's like a level 10 opportunity I mean

18:40

I have to be able to make at least ten

18:42

million dollars a year from it if I'm gonna start

18:44

a new product like yeah easily

18:46

because I know that I can make ten million dollars a year

18:48

right I've already done it so the question is like okay if

18:50

I'm gonna start this thing over here if it's not gonna at

18:52

least maybe ten million dollars a year why not just keep on

18:54

doing the thing that is making me ten million to make you

18:57

know twenty thirty forty million dollars a year as well and

19:00

and I think that once you kind of it's almost

19:02

like raising your standards once you decide this

19:04

is I'm only gonna go after level 10 opportunities then

19:06

it comes super hard because you have to say no

19:08

to maybe like a two million dollar a year product

19:11

or a three million dollar a year product but and

19:14

then I'm sure at some point I'm gonna have to say no to

19:16

the ten million dollar a year yeah to go to like the hundred

19:18

million dollar a year the two hundred million dollar a year so yeah

19:20

it never gets easier for sure but I

19:22

think that prioritization of being like okay this is what

19:24

we should focus on at the

19:27

sacrifice of all these other things over here all these

19:29

other ads and opportunities I'm getting hit with I think

19:31

that helps propel the business forward to the next level

19:33

sick can you remember

19:36

what was how did your revenue trajectory happen like

19:38

from h23 to yeah I'll

19:41

roughly give it so it's like you

19:43

know age 23 I probably took

19:46

home I don't know w2 income working

19:48

as a waiter maybe 20 grand a

19:50

year yeah something on those then

19:52

I started the social media marketing agency the first nine

19:54

months we did three thousand dollars in total sales so

19:57

not great at all so I don't

19:59

even know I think, but then after that, within 90 days, we

20:01

hit our first $100,000 a month, right? Because

20:03

I implemented a few things. So I

20:05

probably took home, I don't know, let's say somewhere between 50 and $100,000. The

20:10

next year after that was my first $2 million

20:13

take home year. Then my

20:15

first $4 million profit. Yeah, like,

20:17

yeah, then it was $4 million. And

20:20

so the direction has kind of been up into the

20:23

ride a little bit. Ironically enough, this year, going

20:25

back to like a long term vision. So

20:28

in the SaaS world, they call it swallowing the

20:30

fish. But it's like, you know, we've been

20:32

charging upfront 15K, 50K for people to work

20:34

with us. And we've been doing that

20:36

for the past three, four years. And it's been very profitable.

20:38

And every year has been growth since last. But now

20:41

what's happening is actually last month was

20:44

one of the lowest months I've had in the last 12 months. And

20:46

that was because we're migrating a lot of

20:49

our business to the subscription revenue through the

20:51

membership site. So like kind of like you

20:53

had said, we're taking less sales calls. My

20:55

sales team's freaking out right now, right? Like

20:57

everyone's like, we're focusing our audience

20:59

towards scaling school, which is our membership site as

21:01

well. So instead of seeing all these like 15K

21:03

and 50K wires every single day, I think these like

21:06

$97 payments come in, right? And

21:08

it's funny, I did a webinar yesterday and I said, I'm actually

21:10

more excited about these $97 payments than I

21:13

have been about the 50K payments because the

21:15

$97 payments require almost

21:17

no like you have a course, right?

21:19

I've never really sold anything that wasn't

21:21

like, intense one on one custom work,

21:23

like a lot of dump you services. And

21:26

so we're swallowing the fish right now. So this year

21:28

we might do the same numbers that we did last

21:30

year, but I'm actually okay with it because I

21:34

have this strong belief that like going back

21:36

to opportunities that like you

21:38

should make as much money as you can doing whatever you need

21:40

to do that makes you a lot of money take home. But

21:43

then once you get enough money, I think you can kind

21:45

of step back and then you can kind of look and

21:47

find an opportunity in front of you, right? So like,

21:50

I just knew that what I was doing up until this point,

21:52

I loved, but I didn't know if it was going to be

21:54

the thing that had taken me to what I want to do,

21:56

which is 100 million net worth and eventually billion dollar net worth.

21:58

And so I was like, Okay, instead of

22:00

like continuously spending 12, 14

22:03

hour days trying to keep on growing and forcing this

22:05

thing here, maybe let me just do four hours a

22:07

day. And then let me spend the rest of the

22:09

time trying to identify what's the next opportunity in front

22:11

of me that can let me jump to the next

22:13

level. So like, yeah, that that'll be

22:16

what we do this year, but, um, it's

22:18

a little bit hard as well, because you're just

22:20

trying to beat last year's numbers going back to

22:22

the opportunity thing we talked a little bit earlier,

22:24

but I just, now I have enough money that

22:26

all of my personal expenses are taken care of.

22:28

Like my team's taken care of. And so now

22:30

I can start being like, okay, I can lose

22:32

money next month or the month after that, I'd

22:34

be totally okay with it. If it was leading

22:36

to a larger leapfrog jump on the road. Yeah,

22:38

that's pretty exactly what my thought process is right

22:40

now. So, uh, uh, so what was your

22:42

revenue and profit last year? Uh, revenue we

22:44

did right around 11 million and profit. We did around

22:46

4.5. Nice. So

22:49

yeah, we did about 6 million

22:51

revenue and a profit about 3.5. Yeah.

22:54

Last year, the profit was lower. So the

22:56

year before that we did, I think

22:59

6 million and profit was three.

23:02

Um, so we had a lot more revenue last year

23:04

than we did profit, but man, I, I learned a

23:06

lot last year. There was a lot of things that

23:08

we did. Like I just shut down my sales and

23:10

marketing for two months because we couldn't fulfill on the

23:12

client success side. I also started, uh, I started my

23:14

first few portfolio companies last year. So I took on

23:16

a few additional companies and that helped to increase some

23:18

of the, um, the overall revenue, but

23:21

I don't get paid out in those top at margins

23:23

until like probably this year as well. And

23:25

I also learned a lot more once again, it's like

23:27

I took on a few of these portfolio companies, which

23:29

added a few million dollars a year to my, uh,

23:31

my bank account, but at the same time, it was

23:33

like, like I'm

23:36

doing, okay, a few million additional dollars, isn't

23:38

going to change my life. One, Iota, $30

23:41

million, $50 million. That

23:43

would like actually changed my life. So it goes right

23:45

back again. Like I'm winding down some of the portfolio

23:47

companies this year because it's like, okay, sure, I could

23:49

continue to make this cash play of a few million

23:51

dollars. But what I'm really looking for is like the,

23:53

the a hundred million to $300 million, the next three

23:55

to five years. And it's not going to be through

23:57

one of those companies. I

24:00

was having a similar conversation with another friend last

24:02

week. So we're trying to do some software plays

24:05

where we've got this app called VoicePel, which

24:07

is like AI voice overcoming writer's block.

24:09

We're building another one around goal setting

24:11

and things. I was thinking to

24:13

this friend of mine, being like, yeah, the plan is

24:15

to have a portfolio of these small microSAS apps that

24:18

could maybe do, I don't know, a few hundred to

24:20

a couple of million a year. And

24:22

this friend was like, why are you trying to go for

24:24

10 tiny apps? Why not just make the

24:27

productivity app to rule them all? And

24:29

just focus on that one. I was like, oh,

24:31

shit. Because in my mind, it's really hard

24:33

to make the ultimate productivity app. And it's

24:35

easier to make 10 smaller ones. But is it though?

24:38

Exactly, but it's just never really questioned that. And

24:40

so journaling on the Eurostar on the way here,

24:42

I was like, what would the ultimate productivity app,

24:44

if there was just one app that we were

24:46

working on, that we could

24:48

go grow to tens of millions or even hundreds

24:50

in valuation, that's

24:52

actually probably more doable than trying to do 10

24:55

small ones that are sort of cash flowing each

24:57

year. Yeah, and I actually very

24:59

much predict. So Sam

25:02

Ovens came into the online coaching consulting worlds

25:04

like seven years ago and came out with

25:06

Consulting Accelerator. I think that it had his

25:08

peak year. He was doing like 30 million, 35 million a year. And

25:12

I think that we're on the other end of the

25:14

high ticket space, where if that's your main business high

25:16

ticket, I think that you need

25:18

to be looking to the future towards the

25:20

other opportunities. And I personally predict that in

25:23

the next three to five to seven years,

25:25

creators are going to be much more involved

25:27

with membership sites, recurring revenue and SaaS place.

25:29

Like when I look at SaaS, membership site

25:32

is in some way similar to SaaS, right?

25:34

It's very similar. If the product

25:36

is essentially the course material, whatever else it is. And

25:39

when I look at it and when I look at the

25:41

numbers that we're doing, so we launched our membership site, we

25:43

did 30K MRR the first 30 days. Oh, wow. We're going

25:45

to do 60K. We're

25:47

on track to do 60K our second 30 days. So

25:50

it's like it's growing. And we figured out ads

25:52

and we figured out how to do all this.

25:54

So it's working well. And it's super interesting because

25:56

I'm like, okay, in SaaS or

25:58

membership site, it's like for every. dollar you

26:00

make, if you were to edge it, it could be $10, right?

26:03

So if I make a million dollars in monthly recurring revenue,

26:05

it's really $10 million in evaluation. So

26:07

going back to the opportunity and the vehicles that

26:10

we were talking about earlier, I

26:12

think that like the idea of building the

26:14

ultimate productivity app is amazing and you have

26:16

something that a lot of these huge other

26:18

productivity companies don't have, which you have this

26:20

amazing built in audience that already knows, likes

26:22

and trusts you. And like their biggest problem

26:24

is typically acquisition. So if you can't, and

26:26

then for example, let's say people sign up

26:28

to your YouTube course as well, like I

26:30

call it indirect promotion for either your membership

26:32

side or your software. It's like now you have

26:34

all these, um, high ticket products or

26:37

one, two, three, four, $5,000 products over here. And

26:39

then you have the super low ticket, let's say

26:41

somewhere between 17 or $97 a month

26:43

for the productivity app over here. You keep

26:46

on selling all your high ticket stuff, but

26:48

included in the high ticket is three months,

26:50

six months, nine months of your SaaS or

26:52

membership site. Because the biggest problem with SaaS

26:54

companies when it comes to growth is, um,

26:56

is cost per acquisition. So like we have

26:58

SaaS company clients and they're okay to spending

27:00

$400 to require a $97

27:02

a month person because they have venture back funds

27:04

and they're going to liquidate in a few months.

27:06

But you know, one of the things that we're

27:08

doing and a company like ClickFunnels has done is

27:11

you charge this like 95% profit

27:13

margin, one, two, three, four, $5,000

27:16

course upfront, and then you get people

27:18

on that subscription service in the backend. And, um, and

27:20

I think that that's going to be the future of,

27:22

I have a few friends that did it, uh, Sam

27:24

Ovens did it with school. Alex Becker did it with

27:26

Hyros. I have another friend. He'll probably do 36 million

27:28

this year. He's doing it with a software as well.

27:30

High ticket upfront with it. So I just feel like

27:32

that's going to be the trend of the future is

27:34

combining both of those things together. This

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30:28

So let me treat

30:30

this as a bit of a coaching session for me. Our plan is

30:32

so we were launching

30:36

something called Productivity Lab, which

30:39

is going to be a $97 membership.

30:41

Nice membership site.

30:44

Membership with like daily zoom co-working and

30:46

weekly reviews, like goal setting workshops, is

30:48

basically helping creators, entrepreneurs and professionals

30:51

double their productivity by doing

30:53

a bunch of things, which is attached to a

30:55

course. So when we launch it, I'm going

30:57

to do a live the course of the live cohort for

30:59

the first four weeks. And then we'll record everything, turn

31:01

it evergreen, etc. And we're

31:03

thinking of doing this as sort of $997 for the year, which

31:06

works out to $19 a week. So we're thinking $19

31:08

a week to double your productivity. If that's worth it

31:10

to you, then come join Productivity Lab. And

31:13

so this is the first proper

31:15

product that we'll have in the productivity value ladder, because

31:17

at the moment, our only other product is the YouTube

31:19

value ladder. We have our YouTube Academy, which is $1,000

31:21

course, YouTube Foundations, which is the $1 course that upsells

31:23

people for the 1000, which we might scrap and just

31:25

put on YouTube for free potentially. And then we have

31:27

a $5,000 higher ticket YouTube accelerator, which

31:30

is basically the same stuff, but with more support. And

31:32

then we're thinking maybe we'll do a YouTube for businesses,

31:35

which is like maybe a one on one consulting thing

31:37

for businesses that want to scale their own YouTube media

31:39

in house empire. So that's a sort of

31:41

YouTube value ladder. And I guess we're sort of

31:43

building a productivity value ladder. So one

31:47

of my, so I'd love to get your

31:49

general thoughts on that philosophy. But one of my general questions

31:51

is that I know a bunch of people who have dabbled

31:54

with this, well, who have not doubled, but who've done low

31:57

ticket membership sites, $29 to $97 a month ish. And

32:00

of the five people that I

32:02

know, basically all of them have said that three

32:04

and a bit months is their average churn. And

32:08

so really what they get is their LTV

32:10

is about $300. And

32:13

so if an LTV is $300,

32:16

you may as well just sell a $300 course. Or like

32:18

for our productivity lab, we're thinking do we just sell annual

32:20

memberships because we don't want to deal with monthly churn. But

32:22

the monthly churn is good because it forces you to improve

32:24

the product. And we're thinking building

32:27

quarterly like Smart Passive Income do and have

32:29

quarterly and annual. How do you think about

32:31

the duration of membership sites as

32:33

it relates to churn and LTV? Yeah,

32:35

I guess my quick follow-up question is that

32:37

the productivity being $1,000 for 12 months, are

32:39

they paying up front for it? And

32:43

then is it renewing after that at another $1,000 for another

32:45

12 months? Yeah. Okay. Yeah,

32:47

so obviously you guys are doing

32:49

well. My only concern

32:51

is you do have this. You're essentially going to

32:53

build two businesses. They can feed each other,

32:56

but the YouTube thing and the productivity thing are not essentially

32:58

the same thing. Yeah, that's a problem. So it's a little

33:00

bit of an issue. I like the productivity

33:02

thing because the market is just so much larger. Like

33:04

if you built a software for productivity, it could

33:06

be a billion-dollar company. If you built one for

33:08

YouTube, I don't know. And

33:10

so going back to opportunity vehicles, that would probably

33:12

be where I'd spent my energy on. But you

33:14

don't want to kill the golden goose because

33:17

I can get the money right now. Yeah, I think that will

33:19

probably wind down you for a time after productivity ramps up. But

33:22

you can still feed into it, right? So

33:25

it's like in your YouTube stuff, I would be saying, people

33:27

ought to ask, how am I able to shoot this many

33:29

videos every single week? It's because of this productivity thing over

33:31

here. So I would definitely feed into it, but there is

33:33

an opportunity cost by doing both. The membership side people, I

33:35

can't speak because I don't know who those people are. I

33:37

personally, so I used to have the chief, I don't know

33:39

if you know what Mindvalley is. So I

33:42

used to have their chief marketing officer was my

33:44

chief marketing officer for two years. And then I

33:46

also spoke with a few people on the marketing team

33:48

of masterclass.com. So I went

33:50

straight to $100 million a year membership site

33:52

companies, just to figure out, okay, they're doing

33:54

it, what do I need to do that's

33:56

different? And I'll be respectful for their

33:58

numbers. But it's definitely longer than

34:01

three months. They're average member inside of there. I

34:03

think a lot of people do membership sites incorrectly.

34:05

I think that they throw all the content out

34:07

there thinking that I'll be providing value, but then

34:09

people feel overwhelmed and they're not taking advantage of

34:11

it so then they hop off. There's a few

34:13

different things on top of it I won't get

34:15

into unless you want me to. But in

34:17

my eyes, I

34:19

would personally rather do some

34:22

kind of membership site. I would make

34:24

the entry point something like whatever, $35

34:28

to $49 a month for this productivity

34:30

baseline package. You can put

34:32

that as the first link inside of YouTube and

34:34

then everybody joins that and that's just building solid

34:36

MRR that you're getting from inside of there. Then

34:38

you can sell this productivity course for $1,000. I

34:41

would really stress you to do $2,000 for six months. It

34:45

includes six months of the $49

34:48

a month thing. And

34:50

then after that, it will automatically start renewing them at

34:52

the $49 a month. So you

34:54

can get the upfront cash infusion and you can

34:57

send that, but also for productivity, maybe

34:59

a lot of people can't afford the $100,000 or $2,000 thing as well. And

35:02

so they can come in on the $49 base

35:04

package on top of that. And now you

35:07

have two super solid revenue streams coming in. You have

35:09

this baseline and let's

35:11

say people churn, right? That's

35:13

the other thing. The course, there's

35:16

so many more elements of a course that you'd have to give for $1,000.

35:19

But let's say people join and earn in three months, you

35:21

can work on that, but what is the cost to you

35:23

if they churn? There's no work involved in

35:25

you pretty much at all. So it's like you

35:27

keep that in, you work on the churn, and

35:30

then you have this other package here, which is

35:32

I would really stress $2,000 for six months. It

35:35

gives you, we just did this. We just launched

35:37

a webinar yesterday, $2,000 for six months. It

35:40

includes six months of scaling school. And then after

35:42

that, it starts renewing in addition to that.

35:45

And then when you launch the SaaS product, which is

35:47

what we're planning on doing as well, you can do the

35:49

exact same thing. And you can say,

35:51

hey, if you get the SaaS product, it includes

35:53

six months of my membership

35:55

site community on top of that. And the SaaS product is

35:58

going to be a high-ish ticket? Yeah, it'll probably be. probably

36:00

be like somewhere between $297 and $497 a month.

36:03

Okay, so like the funnily type pricing. Exactly. I

36:06

think more like high-roast B2B. It'll

36:09

be something along those lines. Interesting.

36:12

You mentioned there were a few other things that you've seen from

36:14

membership sites that are doing 100 million plus. Yeah.

36:17

So one, they have longer LTVs than just the frame

36:19

vote or longer trend rates. I think here's a few

36:21

things. First of all is they

36:23

don't overwhelm their members when they come in. So

36:25

another huge company that people on membership sites, people

36:28

don't really realize is Audible. So what does Audible

36:30

do if you buy a membership? They give you

36:32

credits every single month. And so we

36:34

are the only platform I know that's on school

36:36

right now that does a credit system. So when

36:38

people come in, they get 10 classes included, but

36:40

then we have 46 classes inside of

36:43

there and they get one credit every month they renew.

36:45

If they ever left, they would lose all the credits

36:47

and all the classes that they have so far. So

36:50

it leads to people wanting to stay longer. The

36:52

other thing that I learned from MasterClass, someone

36:54

on their marketing team there, he said

36:56

your greatest retention weapon is coming soon.

36:59

So he says that people will always pay

37:02

for what they are anticipating is going to

37:04

happen in the future. So he

37:06

said, obviously, when people are paying money, if

37:08

they feel like they've

37:10

gotten all the value, that's going to get out of it, then

37:12

they're going to cancel it. But for example, there

37:14

was a, I forgot, there was a movie that was coming out

37:16

recently on Netflix that my girlfriend and I wanted to see. And

37:19

I really don't like Netflix that much. So I want to cancel it, but

37:21

I was like, well, let's just wait until the movie comes out. And

37:24

then I'll cancel the membership. So they I literally was churning

37:26

and they convinced me to stay because they were coming. So

37:28

then if you're able to once a month, we do something

37:30

we call the scaling scoop. And I just did the March

37:32

edition of it. And I'm saying like, okay, here's all the

37:34

things that we have coming up this month. We're doing a

37:36

short form. I'm having a short form agency come in here

37:38

and teach a course. We're releasing

37:40

our diamond level package. We're doing blah, blah, blah.

37:42

And so all these coming soon things get people

37:44

excited for, for what's coming

37:47

up like in the future. And

37:49

so they don't want to cancel their membership. The other thing

37:51

that they said is almost the reverse of that. If

37:54

you can constantly be sharing wins in

37:56

like an email blast to people because

37:58

people don't want always. into

38:00

the community, but they will read their

38:02

email. So people feel like, it's almost

38:04

like people, Planet Fitness, their gym membership.

38:07

I think the numbers is like 90% of Planet

38:09

Fitness members don't actually ever go to

38:11

the gym, right? But somehow by

38:14

being a part of a gym membership, you're getting a little

38:16

bit of the feeling that you're

38:18

being productive and you're, oh, I have

38:20

a gym membership. And then by sharing

38:22

other people's wins and sharing updates to

38:24

this email list on a constant basis,

38:26

people feel like they are getting

38:29

the wins themselves, even though they aren't actually getting the

38:31

wins themselves. And then there's other things

38:33

like, the really obvious things like asking people what they

38:35

want, then putting that in the coming soon and the

38:37

future thing. And you

38:40

being engaged in it as well. And yeah,

38:42

I would say those are like the real major ones.

38:44

In radical transparency, we haven't had ours long enough to

38:47

know what our churn is gonna be, but I have

38:49

learned from these other companies that have done it like

38:51

long enough. And once again, even

38:53

if my churn was atrocious, like say three months,

38:55

four months, something like that, I will tell

38:57

you that I've been like the high ticket space, we

38:59

serve 2000 clients. And for us, it's

39:02

like 70% of our clients aren't renewing for

39:04

another six months or 12

39:06

months on top of that. And we're putting

39:08

an incredible amount of work in there. If

39:10

I can essentially charge almost nothing and not

39:13

have to do any real like physical one-on-one

39:15

work with these people, then they're churning isn't

39:18

gonna hurt me too much, especially if I'm also

39:20

selling the $1,000, $2,000 course of

39:22

funds. So why not then just sell a $300 course? Because,

39:25

yeah, so it also depends on what your

39:27

future, what you want to do with

39:29

your company. My plan is also to exit the company in

39:31

the future as well. So if you have a recurring revenue

39:34

and like I think everybody should plan on that as well.

39:36

So if you could make the exact same amount of money

39:38

from a $300 course as you could for a $97 thing,

39:41

conventional wisdom for the high ticket coaching

39:44

influencer space would be like, get the $300 upfront. But

39:47

once you start thinking of the longer term, exactly,

39:49

you're thinking how can I, and then of course, the

39:51

other thing is that if somebody's paying you, so

39:54

Google came out with a study, it's called the 7-Eleven-4 Rule. On

39:56

average, it takes someone seven hours of content across 11

39:58

touch points in four different. locations to

40:01

return from a stranger to a buyer. That's why you

40:03

obviously do well is because you have all this exposure

40:05

on YouTube, right? The nice thing about membership

40:08

site is that they're continuously getting, they're paying,

40:10

so they're more likely to pay attention and

40:12

then you can have additional packages, tiers, high

40:14

ticket on the back end of your membership

40:16

site and you're gonna have

40:18

much more likely active people ascend there than if they

40:20

just spent the money one time, they don't go through

40:22

it and they feel like they're not getting value out

40:25

of it. Nice. How do you think about the investment

40:27

of your personal time into all this

40:29

stuff? There's something I'm struggling with like, how

40:31

should I be spending my time? I mean, I could always

40:34

make more YouTube videos and that's the thing that I love and

40:36

that's fun. I also like the zero to one stage of making

40:38

products but I'm not particularly enthused by the

40:40

maintenance of products but I also like doing like live

40:42

webinars and stuff because there's something exciting about live and

40:44

I love doing in-person events and things like that because

40:46

I'm trying to figure out for me how

40:48

can I do productivity stuff and the

40:51

youtubing stuff in a way where the

40:53

only things I have to do are the things that I just really

40:55

love doing. How do you think about that? Yeah, I actually think about

40:57

that a lot. I'm like at the point in my life now, like

40:59

I said before, where I don't have to work

41:01

if I didn't want to so I just want to do

41:03

the things that give me energy every day and ironically, those

41:05

are the things that usually make you a lot of money

41:07

as well. That's the other reason I kind of like the

41:09

membership site thing a little bit because like instead of building

41:12

this one static course that you like build and then you

41:14

just give away and like that's it. The

41:16

thing I like about the membership sites, I'm exactly like

41:18

you. I like the creative zero to one product led

41:20

growth area of like a business and so

41:22

with the membership site, I'm coming up with new

41:24

classes every single month and I can create those

41:26

new classes, the buzz around the new classes, then

41:29

I can make usually what I'll do is I'll

41:31

make a YouTube video. That YouTube video will perform

41:33

well so I'll make a class to go around

41:35

that YouTube video or I'll make a class that

41:37

class does well and then I'll pull a video

41:39

from the class and put it as a YouTube

41:41

video. Right, so I'm really leveraging up my time

41:43

a lot when it comes with it and then

41:45

I have a full client success team and I

41:47

pretty much tell them like once they're members inside

41:49

of there, all I'm gonna be doing is

41:51

I just want to be posting value, creating

41:54

classes and getting new members inside of

41:56

there, everything else, answering questions, doing the

41:58

coaching calls, support, billing. That's delegated to

42:00

somebody else but my zone of genius is gonna

42:02

be creating content creating products and creating like hype

42:04

and culture around it And so that's like my

42:07

full-time job And I would say that was even

42:09

the case when I had the high ticket program

42:11

as well Like I wasn't doing any of the

42:13

coaching calls. I was doing the slack messages I

42:15

was mainly just improving the product and doing you

42:17

and I honestly think like for you That's your

42:19

absolute zone of genius and there's not one thing

42:21

that you could do else inside that company That

42:23

would be worth more than than improving creating new

42:25

products or doing YouTube video Nice

42:27

I completely agree. The one thing I sometimes add

42:30

to that list is being

42:32

the sort of business coach for the team having that zoomed

42:34

out perspective because the team as amazing as they are are

42:36

so in the weeds with their own thing that they don't

42:38

have that bird's eye view and Often

42:40

it'll just be asking a few casual questions looking

42:43

at our scorecard asking a few casual questions about

42:45

the customer success department to realize oh, there's this

42:47

whole thing that we Just

42:49

it was a bit of a blind spot because everyone's sort of missed

42:51

the forest from the trees And

42:53

I was saying this to my CEO coach that like I

42:55

feel like I should be spending some of my time doing

42:57

like Essentially business coaching the business and invest commas and

43:00

he was like, I mean, it's probably not

43:02

your job zone of genius But it feels like no

43:04

one else in the team is doing that. So how

43:06

would yeah Yeah, that's when the first time I hired

43:08

a director of operations That's when I realized that's really

43:10

what the director of operations is for right a COO

43:12

a general manager or whatever else They should be spending

43:14

more their time on that and even me like we

43:16

were talking about this a little bit earlier But it's

43:18

like, you know You feel like you could maybe even

43:20

do the job better or you could do it in

43:22

half the time where you're like Well, like why aren't

43:25

you guys doing this already? Like we should already be

43:27

doing this like and I will say myself

43:29

Sometimes I just have zero ability to understand other people's

43:31

capacity I'm just like everybody works like me

43:33

right and everybody cares much and so

43:36

I'm also under spike I also accept the fact

43:38

that stuff is likely gonna be breaking and it's

43:40

likely still gonna be Let's say if I'm not

43:42

involved in any of this other stuff like coaching

43:44

the business or whatever else it is Let's say

43:46

it's operating 20% less than it could if

43:48

I was doing it 30% less, right? I

43:51

have a strong belief that I buy instead

43:53

just double down on the stuff that I'm

43:55

incredibly great at that I could make it

43:57

a higher increase of output than whatever the

43:59

law is Was over year and then let's

44:01

say that you are able to get it

44:03

a like a someone operation general Manager something

44:05

like that are over to make that thirty

44:07

percent gap. Fifteen percent of they come about

44:09

by fifty percent and then and he's I'm

44:11

I'm like okay I still need to have

44:13

my input in here. I use figure out

44:16

what's the most leverage way to do that.

44:18

So an example would be like okay one

44:20

supporter you guys decide Okay Ali we have

44:22

this you know Rafer goal that lets a

44:24

customer success This is picking this up working

44:26

over here So then like the General manager

44:28

would say okay here's what the Kp. Eyes

44:30

are. Here's what the problem is. and then maybe

44:32

one day out of the quarter you're. Coming.

44:34

Up you're sitting down and room in. It's almost like

44:36

the creativity of you and the product person view. You're

44:39

going to create the solution for it's but the were

44:41

like to say to you have no homework so it's

44:43

like people come to you, they present the problem to

44:45

you and then literally use eight years a solution and

44:47

then they go out and take care of it and

44:49

you're not involved in the process anymore so that would

44:51

be like the most leverage waited him. that's vs like

44:53

you doing all the research. You'd ask people much questions,

44:56

getting our conversations using all the all the way through.

44:58

It's just like a much more condensed version of your

45:00

time and you would if you did one thing every

45:02

quarter four quarters year I know, doesn't sound like. A

45:04

lot but it to be massive for the growth of the

45:06

business and once again you to spending the majority and time

45:08

of the stuff that has a higher here. If

45:11

I if I wasn't anything my times make more youtube

45:13

videos and making and improving a products like very this.

45:15

the things you either like get okay with just like

45:17

stuff not being as good as it could be lion

45:19

and I know I'm a little bit I don't like

45:21

to say too much bigger than always been numerous but

45:23

I am a little low cd and so like. When.

45:26

Things are perfect Like you should see me trying to build

45:28

a sales funnel. it like has like I like my team

45:30

gets annoying I'm like no no you see this image is

45:32

like and and yellow the same is like I did this

45:35

to be fixed inside of your ads us and I've just

45:37

like in the past year I'm like okay to get to

45:39

the numbers that I want to get to like. You.

45:41

Know I gotta be okay with some of the stuff

45:43

now being absolutely one hundred percent perfect and I think

45:45

the same thing goes your team as well. you the

45:47

be okay with that. Not been the case but. I

45:50

think leadership for the team's is just as important as

45:52

any work that you'd be doing with them. And. Are

45:55

you know? A great example is Rob

45:57

the Erdrich see as a password Osman.

46:00

Well but like he just spends all of his

46:02

time coaching his chief of staff and then his

46:04

chief of staff goes and tops the rest of

46:06

his like the Mormon has in this department has

46:09

Go down and talk to them. so instead of

46:11

you dealing with entire departments are huge problems wrangling

46:13

with like one person you're began with three times

46:15

a week and then they deal with all the

46:18

other problems. Nice. Okay yeah thanks

46:20

is my general manager in that sense and Sir Angus

46:22

I meet once a week and like and Venice when

46:24

I know to things. I. Have gotten much more

46:26

discipline that direction and Sir Angus rather than being like

46:28

message someone would seem to be like hey why is

46:30

that the we're getting three hundred emails and helps cut

46:32

each week Like Alex this stuff as I thought of

46:35

it and I just want to a prescription drug of

46:37

be like. Of. A grown up with

46:39

pets and then things up in the eyes. It's

46:41

also good light. I figure even better situation would

46:43

be obviously like you guys are learning. Adapting would

46:45

be like Angus comes to you and says hey

46:48

there's were getting three hundred emails a week's This

46:50

is the reason why we're getting two hundred emails

46:52

with. This is the solution that we've already implemented.

46:54

Do have any feedback you'd like to give to

46:56

at right that would be the dream world is

46:58

that you're really just been told of what's going

47:00

on here and wouldn't my conversations with like really

47:02

high levels ios. Once again, they're not really leaving

47:05

with homework and are not really identifying into the

47:07

problems, are typically solving them. So like we have

47:09

of meetings every Friday, team leader meetings and I'll

47:11

run those meetings. I'm just like I sit there

47:13

and quiet and I just like let my department

47:16

heads talk wherever and in of somebody asked me

47:18

for my he backs and I'll give it or

47:20

if I feel like it's valuable give us for

47:22

the more I take over If the more identify

47:25

problems in, the more I solve problems. ironically enough,

47:27

the more I'm limiting and handicapping the rest of

47:29

my team Yet so even if I feel like

47:31

they're like. So many times I'm sitting

47:33

here quietly and I feel like they're solution

47:35

is the wrong solution. I like obviously know

47:37

that of my head. And I will.

47:40

At this point I'll let them execute the solution.

47:42

I will let them go through and see that

47:44

so they can learn from their mistakes. And I

47:46

know about. The. Whole transparency to sing

47:48

ice for with the most and on our annual

47:50

meeting this year we each the team leaders gives

47:52

the another team leader critical feedback for them to

47:54

work on the next year. My number one thing

47:57

this of this year is to speak less on

47:59

meeting so like. I'm not perfect at this the

48:01

I'm still working on myself, but it's just so

48:03

easy. Was. Like. I want to solve all

48:05

these problems when someone says the problem and it's

48:07

obviously a business coaches well some just like. here's

48:09

a solution. must watch if you're doing and instead

48:11

I'll let them solve it on their own. A

48:13

disaster. My input I get nice and have you

48:15

come across the buckled multiplies I have. Yeah yes

48:17

exactly what it is. Literally exactly yeah I actually

48:19

didn't even to give it an eye on dec

48:22

submitted of years ago. That's exactly what. Yeah, this

48:24

is something. I guess that sesame occurs that as

48:26

an analogy that guilty of my book which is

48:28

that think of yourself as a poker player in

48:30

the final number of ships and every time you

48:32

speak you're using some of your ships while. So

48:34

I called it. it's back sang it will say

48:36

to me to sit me last week alley I

48:38

think you apply to Beauty Tips in that meeting.

48:40

A stab at the Velocity question as content and

48:42

as like it's the contents on the my name

48:45

of the content meetings like. Sean has

48:47

to be built for the cult that me to have ever

48:49

seen. Not sure what that the it's it's I think of

48:51

who was the thing that my director of operations my bias

48:53

or up robbers is that was anymore but he eat one

48:55

thing he told me. Was. The term

48:57

thought leader and you would use of the moment ago

49:00

when we talk to my book cetera et cetera and

49:02

I never really thought of it inside of a company

49:04

as well and so am I Did the first meeting

49:06

Abraham come on I hired him and used to work

49:08

at Crossfit a Nike. He ran three hundred plus person

49:10

teams and saw the first mean he came on was

49:13

a day after he got on board it and lives

49:15

or marketing meeting and like I consider myself pretty good

49:17

a marketing That's what I've done. I've helped thousands of

49:19

this is the marketing systems throws like. After

49:21

we got them with a meeting it was a regular meeting

49:24

and so it does have been. I after the meeting was

49:26

another so like give me some critical feedback and honestly there

49:28

has to be the one who like honestly. I.

49:30

Was shocked at how much he were talking during

49:32

the meeting and like that. Not a

49:34

heavy with i yeah yeah just like well of course

49:36

I should be talking on the face, the brand on

49:38

the market, or like I know the stuff. And it

49:41

was like from that moment that I realized oh wait,

49:43

like I. Do A goes. It's Edward side.

49:45

This full circle goes exactly. We talked about the

49:47

beginning which is you and I are so used

49:49

to. Do. With how we got today was

49:51

now xactly all the things that were try not to

49:53

do right now and or identity as around all the

49:55

stuff that we talk about right now. so it's like

49:57

you have that separates as and be willing let other

49:59

people. They'll and be willing to have a not be

50:01

the right answer and figure out their own and it's

50:03

like one or most difficult thing to do but I

50:05

think the biggest thing that will help you as if

50:07

you have thought leaders so like instead of. Hiring.

50:10

Like just whatever. A person that can really just physically

50:12

get the job done. If you spend little more money

50:14

and find somebody who's truly a thought leader many that

50:17

they bring their own ideas the table. They're not just

50:19

like sitting there waiting for you to give an answer

50:21

to something, then it makes your life a million times

50:23

easier. I will say. Oh. What

50:25

Did: What's your thought? What's your take on. Yeah.

50:29

This that discussion of like. It as.

50:31

I as admin every basic everyone on our team.

50:33

Is. Quite jr and quite young than the that sort

50:35

of been with me for the last like two plus

50:37

two to four is. And. Have ascended

50:40

the ranks as of Oregon lot better. And

50:42

visit pushes the voice for the said to me you

50:44

should really consider hiring season frova stuff and who's been

50:46

like oh but I believe in growth mindset and it's

50:49

like nice to have a young team of people who

50:51

are my age and bit younger and was the sort

50:53

of growing together. and yeah how do you think about

50:55

his it's it's a really good point. I'm the exact

50:57

same way because like you want to reward these people

51:00

that have gone with you but it's a goes right

51:02

back to what we're saying. It's like. What?

51:04

Got you to where you are right now is very

51:06

likely not the be the gets the next level and.

51:09

I'm. I. Started making hires like to

51:11

see ammo of mine valley right and these salaries

51:13

are not cheap. Price was like I'm used to

51:15

paying like like letter say x amount of dollars

51:17

and yeah I'm paying like this amount of my

51:20

neighbors are safe and like every I'm I'm I

51:22

do know how I'm like okay this is like

51:24

of your this really are hundreds of dollars a

51:26

day like eat office like this would freak me

51:28

out a little bit. Ray us as but I

51:30

will say that I'm getting. We've had almost a

51:32

full turn over and our leadership team in the

51:35

past four months. almost one hundred percent turn over

51:37

only because I'm. Either I let them

51:39

go or the position has changed so much and

51:41

there was a lot of friction that was happening

51:43

because I now knew what I was requiring us

51:45

like. Let's say that you're right, the markings you

51:47

meeting and a my example I'm talking the entire

51:50

time and then finally I stopped talking and then

51:52

all of a sudden for like four weeks nobody

51:54

saying anything like the head of Marking Weber. nobody's

51:56

talking because they've been so relying on you. and

51:58

now that you're. Not talking. Nobody knows

52:01

what to do at that point. they're frightened to.

52:03

That's when it becomes apparent to me like oh

52:05

wow Maybe this is not the right person for

52:07

this position, but I definitely will say. You.

52:09

Know you have of his his coaches are you

52:12

this year coach The way that I kind of

52:14

justified the my mind was like okay if I

52:16

pay this person the salary and they have worked

52:18

in this specific positions Neil Patel says you should

52:20

get somebody who's done it three times like one

52:22

time as last two times for kind of know

52:24

they're doing three times. It's like there's no doubt

52:26

that they absolutely and do what you want them

52:28

to do. And so it's like when you hire

52:30

this person that's done it three times. they have

52:32

years of experience the weather eyes look at. It

52:34

is unjust hiring another coach for that position. So

52:36

why Hundred Operations I told him. As ago

52:38

this isn't working on it. a some snow

52:40

justify this as literally me hiring a business

52:42

coach like that's what are going to be

52:44

to miss and I learn more about operations

52:46

and last arguments. ninety percent days of working

52:48

with them that I had in the past

52:50

three years running in a bigger company because

52:52

like he worked at multiple mind figure a

52:54

billion dollar companies right and so I think

52:57

that I'm a businesses growth is always limited

52:59

by the some of the knowledge ah a

53:01

of the people that are in the computer

53:03

running the company. and so if you can

53:05

take somebody who's already has let's say five

53:07

more years of specialized knowledge and this thing

53:09

and you bring them inside of the companies

53:11

are you did the jump of the overall

53:13

intelligence goes up. I obviously multiples who says

53:15

it's it's time you know and it's founders

53:17

Now it's such as well because I'm. These.

53:19

People that I'm like letting go are firing like.

53:22

They're. My friends you know, military. I'm super close with

53:24

them. Like the more most recent one that I

53:26

did it was them problem most of go fire

53:28

I've ever had to do and like. Your.

53:30

Got little emotional. I'm a call and he's like i kind

53:32

of your blindsided and I'd just like. As. A

53:34

human being just like literally breaks your heart in on

53:37

him into heroes of the my best and you also

53:39

know they just committed to years of their life. Three

53:41

years ago you ice. but once again maybe just me

53:43

rationalizing but I just know. That tell

53:45

them I'm like look. I. Just know that. I.

53:48

Can't I'm I can promote you anymore. I can't give

53:50

you any more money because like I don't think that

53:52

you're doing the job the way to get done. Since

53:54

I'm not doing you any favors by keeping you around

53:56

your to me like you I'm I'm actually doing you

53:58

a favor by letting you go. That you can

54:00

go out there and be because maybe they're limiting their

54:02

own growth because they're just want to work with you

54:05

and that may by the boss and so light it's

54:07

it's super difficult to do because every single time you

54:09

start a start up. The. First people you hire

54:11

or friends, family people you know like and

54:13

then you may get the next level. You

54:15

use that and at a great example that

54:17

is some Layla her mosey. So she came

54:19

to my house with Alex a few years

54:21

ago and out live was blown away. This

54:23

is before they became like who they are

54:25

today and they were telling me that like

54:27

she was saying that when she realized that

54:29

she had a pretty much fire like almost

54:32

the entire company I'm paraphrasing remember the entire

54:34

thing but like they almost other fire the

54:36

entire cope with the left all these bad

54:38

reviews on Glass Door like they'd like to

54:40

the. Other know these people don't know their

54:42

this young entrepreneurs baba boss at an obviously

54:44

they just exploded after that they grew as

54:46

well south that also like. That's.

54:48

A little bit just occasion. Also my mind to be like okay

54:50

let the It's very rare that the person that you hired the

54:53

very beginning is gonna be the person that takes you to whatever

54:55

the most late and I think of among. They.

54:58

Can be a definite camp and com against.

55:00

This is where I'm a. What about this

55:02

to I used me to strikes me that

55:04

what about the battlefield? Let's say you've got

55:06

someone who's in that role. And

55:08

that president has a good coach. So.

55:11

That's a great question. The answer that question is

55:13

that ah this There's so I live my life

55:15

by forty three principles. I got a from the

55:17

book radar Leo's principal so I created my own

55:19

safe and one of the principles that he talks

55:21

about inside of there is essentially you need to

55:23

make the calculation your heads of is specifically sung

55:25

my team members of waiting for them to get

55:28

a right vs just hiring somebody who already knows

55:30

how to get it done. So whatever the opportunity

55:32

costs, let's say you have this person right now

55:34

the performing at eighty percent you get them the

55:36

ninety percent for So what's the cost of his

55:38

coach? That's going to help them. Second of all,

55:40

Was the time and costs of you trying to

55:43

find this person. Third of all, what is a

55:45

lowered output of they're doing while they're changing the

55:47

way that they're doing their behavior until they migrate

55:49

over to this new way of living or new

55:51

way of doing their jobs. And then you're paying

55:53

them the salary that entire time. So what does

55:56

that cost versus. Going. Out and just find

55:58

somebody that already has. And the next question is. It.

56:00

Has person going to continuously the coaching or is it

56:02

gonna be like a Disney this one thing and that

56:04

problem solve so there's no right or wrong answer their

56:07

the way that I just look at it as like.

56:09

Okay, What does the opportunity cost of keeping this

56:11

person train them up vs simply just finding somebody who's

56:13

already done that thing that I want to do to

56:15

get mathematically to They couldn't. One of the issues that

56:17

I sometimes have is. I.

56:20

Don't know what good looks like it's

56:22

like are for example. Mukden,

56:24

Guy but the middle the new from the for been with

56:26

me there for three years. I've never worked

56:28

with a C ammo and so unlike just

56:30

even a sense of like what should the

56:32

i could be doing a drink and thing

56:34

for making the money like are Convertino campaign,

56:36

The Black Friday with Save Me Five Hundred

56:38

and Like weekend muscle and as sick. But

56:43

like this I'd to me feel that it's a

56:45

lot of unknown unknowns and that like. What

56:47

would yeah for with twentieth more experience my blood

56:49

in that same this ironically enough like the so

56:52

that exact same thing that happened me when I

56:54

want to go higher as the ammo. I had

56:56

never hired a Sumo and like in our industry

56:58

it's not like you know exactly you're working and

57:00

like butter know retail sales you're hiring. This other

57:02

person feels I aren't is relatively young as well

57:04

so like trying to find somebody with experience. What

57:06

does that look like? What are they do? One

57:09

the best things I've ever done is like all

57:11

just like when I hire this the ammo I

57:13

just did fifty interviews with other see a mouse

57:15

and all those interviews I ask them exact same

57:17

questions. I guess what does a good Cm? oh

57:19

do What are the Kp eyes of a good Cml

57:21

base or numbers right here? What should you protect

57:23

our growth? be or should look like old? Are

57:25

your top priorities are than one of my favorite question

57:28

last on every interview especially if it's a position

57:30

I don't know I say what was your on

57:32

track earning expectation that you on earth and so like

57:34

for Alzheimer's he ammo I had no idea what's

57:36

up pay the Cml. By the time I finish

57:38

fifth the interviews I knew exactly what a Sumo should

57:40

be doing, what they should be getting paid, all

57:42

this stuff other probably should be. And so then

57:44

I can make an offer to somebody and say this

57:46

is what I'm expecting. Out of this person here.

57:49

And ironically enough for my p A previously

57:51

ammo. I. Did city interviews he was

57:53

the first person I interviewed and I knew I was

57:55

like i think gonna hire this person by always hire

57:57

the first person other I'm going to do all these

57:59

other in. Use and then of I still believe

58:01

in it. Are going to go back and do is

58:03

allow me to also negotiate pricing and so you're right,

58:05

We never know, we don't know. I think the biggest

58:08

thing that you can do as the cheapest and easiest

58:10

thing to do was interview a bunch of people and

58:12

have that right. So like because is not gonna cost

58:14

you any money as on costs are time. With an

58:16

absolute worst case scenario you're learning things that this person's

58:18

probably not doing that they need to be doing this

58:21

wealth. The other opportunities like masterminds, coaching, programs, talk and

58:23

other people are also really good at That suffers Well

58:25

that's are other ways I've been like oh this is

58:27

how this person run their sales. Seem like we should

58:29

be reading. ourselves seen this way. Obviously you

58:31

deposit as well, but. Yeah.

58:34

I guess you can typically do

58:36

a simple. Like. They're simple logic

58:38

behind. if this person's been doing this thing for

58:40

two years and this person be doing the same

58:42

for ten years, all other things being equal, The

58:45

person doing it for ten years probably has more

58:47

knowledge by, so that's always a safe assumption you

58:49

can make. Is it a hundred percent accurate? It's

58:51

like know, but especially if you do apples to

58:53

apples. So for example, Like. I told

58:55

him I'll see him. Oh came from mine valley. You

58:57

know they're doing one hundred million bucks a year. So

59:00

I didn't hire a Sumo from a company that was

59:02

doing ten million a year. I want to do the

59:04

next level up with louder money or so they also

59:06

need to be. It's like okay this company that's doing

59:08

nine figures a year justified hiring this person and keeping

59:10

this person's then I likely can do it at ten

59:12

million dollars a year and so that say that There's

59:14

always kind of external use that you take to make

59:17

a decision of shy or them and then are using

59:19

a recruited on his people are going with so I

59:21

was I exhibit. Ironically I could you tube video called

59:23

like our Town Acquisitions Assault or but it's essentially. Like

59:25

everything we're doing and marketing I do the same thing

59:27

for talent so I create ads we were on facebook

59:30

ads linked it as indeed as we send them to

59:32

a sales of a deal sales letter as a video

59:34

of the walking for one am expecting out of his

59:36

position what the on track earnings is going to be

59:38

were what our company's doing like our vision mission values

59:41

than as an application process than there's a test that

59:43

they pass a test the on the first interview so

59:45

I just do it. Honestly I'd use i build a

59:47

whole system one time and then I just send Profit

59:49

there. so I just like turn on all the links

59:52

and as of his biggest it's an art center like

59:54

if I was if. I may be one skyn opportunity

59:56

costs of I didn't have the skills and I have.

59:58

I'll probably get a recruiter. The recruitment? Expensive.

1:00:00

You're hiring some for two hundred grand

1:00:02

a year. Typical workers. Thirty percent. You're

1:00:04

going to pay this person sixty grandson

1:00:06

by plus this person's two hundred grand's

1:00:08

salary on top of it's so I

1:00:10

kind of like just building a myself

1:00:12

minimum the little bit cheaper by death

1:00:14

and so. That. In. Hiring

1:00:17

wasn't initially pot of I like doing content

1:00:20

building products thing. Where does hiring for into

1:00:22

sense of how you use your talent? Yeah

1:00:24

there's actually a great book ah call I

1:00:26

think it's in the cloud by Mark Ben

1:00:29

Ali's are You Rob is the founder salesforce

1:00:31

and he talked about like pretty much he's

1:00:33

believe the number one see a job was

1:00:35

talents are high finding and recruiting talents. I

1:00:38

will agree with that is what rights especially

1:00:40

in a situation like you or me where

1:00:42

we have personal brands and that's another reason

1:00:44

I think that branding is so powerful because.

1:00:47

You know I can get people on pay them a little

1:00:49

bit less than they could somewhere else just because they have

1:00:51

been follow me for while the know the like me to

1:00:53

trust me the mission is address so am. I.

1:00:56

Think that. The recruiting aspect

1:00:58

of things is incredibly important, but the

1:01:00

way that I do it. Is

1:01:03

super simple right? So we have a system ah, soccer

1:01:05

and as a recruiting pipeline inside of a sauna and

1:01:07

then what we do is like let's say that we

1:01:09

want to hire for this position. Or

1:01:11

we have a typical you're not like you're not

1:01:14

a Esas companies, you're probably not hiring fifty people

1:01:16

might try to set mutable. you need one person

1:01:18

here, one person there so you know you build

1:01:20

a system around it. So that way in case

1:01:23

the person doesn't work out, you can just turn

1:01:25

the ads back on and get more applicants computer

1:01:27

at an yeah. I personally run this is to

1:01:29

myself but I use Systems Automation to filter out

1:01:31

ninety percent of people until it's only that final

1:01:34

ten percent on. and then what I love. I

1:01:36

don't your lot of talk about this but in

1:01:38

a sauna. Imagine I have this this Trelleborg essentially

1:01:40

and it's like ah, Application: Receives our application

1:01:43

Potential Interview Requested First Interview Schedule Second

1:01:45

of you schedule third interview schedules and

1:01:47

then there's the state on June. Second

1:01:49

and then there's offer extended and that

1:01:51

stage is called offer Potential And so

1:01:53

what I used to do was like

1:01:55

as a C O done by I'd

1:01:57

spend all my time energy we go

1:01:59

and. This new crisis manager something like that

1:02:01

adam thirty days later wouldn't work out and others

1:02:03

are that entire process all over again. And so

1:02:06

now what I've realized: if you're doing enough volume,

1:02:08

there's probably three to five people that you would

1:02:10

hire have any just go higher this one person

1:02:12

for whatever. Maybe that's a little cheaper Other benefits

1:02:14

So what I would you solicitors five people are

1:02:16

all extend the offer to the one person and

1:02:19

are going to reach out to other for and

1:02:21

say look. You. Are very close. I

1:02:23

didn't you to you the first pick for this reason

1:02:25

here, Fights this person doesn't work, were very fast a

1:02:27

fire in the company. Next fourteen three days are going

1:02:29

to say you another email and I understand if you're

1:02:32

not able to but if you want to you can

1:02:34

come work at a company that has and I can

1:02:36

tell you how many times it's like okay now if

1:02:38

it doesn't work out instead of a lot of people

1:02:40

just accept this person down mediocre because they don't wanna

1:02:43

go through the whole fucking process Alliance were now like

1:02:45

and I'm that person knows also that I have a

1:02:47

software potential so now it's really just like okay cool

1:02:49

this didn't work out. Send an email Blast! Those next

1:02:52

four. People first person accept the offer and you

1:02:54

just have to keep on going to the process

1:02:56

of them basket. Two. Years ago

1:02:58

with than a just wanna fine me an executive assistant

1:03:00

random are not in doesn't and then we decided had

1:03:02

not hide opposition to do make a change in the

1:03:05

company. And I was looking for an he A now. And

1:03:07

we go hundred of applicants and done like honey

1:03:10

bee like hang on We gotta shortlisted person from

1:03:12

two years ago to reach out to her and

1:03:14

she was like I will Eisner it's it's it's

1:03:16

was like Shore and uses better than the other.

1:03:18

For me I was I guess that's all I

1:03:21

got working well but honestly even to build a

1:03:23

system array like especially to some I don't know

1:03:25

about the south as the and like as you

1:03:27

scale Cfc like people that you're always learn he

1:03:29

supports sales people Klein success managers like all these

1:03:32

are as appointment centers, mural, high volume positions and

1:03:34

hydrant positions and so have you can just have

1:03:36

this like if you look. At our offer potential

1:03:38

say there's like. Twenty. People and

1:03:40

it's like Media Department of Editors video and

1:03:42

I got a great out the on mail

1:03:45

designer. He has another way so you just

1:03:47

have the schools. We literally just let this

1:03:49

a thumbnail designer go on Thursday of last

1:03:51

week or they want response have enough to

1:03:53

reach back out at. Ironically actually think the

1:03:55

i think they were you serve redo thumbnails

1:03:58

for you actually yeah of oh yeah. We're

1:04:00

not going on about what are you an

1:04:02

idea as because he showed us I'm gonna

1:04:04

do that for your butts So. A. We

1:04:06

let that person go on Thursday. the new person was

1:04:08

working with us on Friday he did his first on

1:04:10

the on Monday. So like you know Avenue such a

1:04:12

pain in the ass of fine go to the whole

1:04:14

process. define the final five and I was like there's

1:04:16

no area. Do this again at what I used to

1:04:19

do is just except mediocre of the awkward because also

1:04:21

I want to restart. this will probably audience and now

1:04:23

it is like you're out. You're an avenue to keep

1:04:25

on July. Sleep on rights. It. What?

1:04:28

Does your will what he didn't find the

1:04:30

first fourteen thirty days That just let you

1:04:32

make such instances. Yeah, you know I'd skyn

1:04:34

some super cheesy but you So I always

1:04:36

say that. Are hiring and firing ironically

1:04:38

enough is the most important skill I think

1:04:40

an entrepreneur can have as you scale. but

1:04:42

as the muscle that we use the least

1:04:44

right is literally so it's like the most

1:04:46

important thing that we almost never do this.

1:04:48

So I think you guys just fire people

1:04:50

just to like get the a figure out

1:04:52

what it's like it hurts. but in my

1:04:54

experience after you go through enough people you

1:04:57

just know if somebody is right, that when

1:04:59

you literally know and I'm so in tune

1:05:01

with like. My. Self reflection, journaling all the

1:05:03

head off that like. I. Know what are

1:05:05

you let somebody go and and also if the

1:05:07

costs of letting this person go like oh god

1:05:09

I gotta go out and find this new person

1:05:11

just if you don't have any system eyes on

1:05:13

boarding process and he says might recruiting process as

1:05:15

you just accept this mediocrity because you're like oh

1:05:18

there's there's nothing better was would be so hard

1:05:20

for me to find something breath I'd say the

1:05:22

vast majority the time it's that I know like

1:05:24

you have a gut feeling for the second thing

1:05:26

is almost always you're hiring. you're hiring for a

1:05:28

specific pain that you have right now. So for

1:05:30

example of how Director of Operations it was around

1:05:32

recruiting I was like hey. I'm I'm director

1:05:34

of Off. sometimes it a recruiting, sometimes I don't and

1:05:36

I just was like look. The. Biggest problem right

1:05:39

we have right now is that we can't hire fast

1:05:41

enough for some these missions that we need and so

1:05:43

I want this person take it over and so all

1:05:45

the questions that has all the interviews. Everything I did

1:05:47

was around recruiting and so when I thought the person

1:05:49

on board the simple question was like. Is.

1:05:51

A recruiting process fix? Do I need to

1:05:53

be involved in recruiting process? And even better,

1:05:56

specifically in a position of like an operational

1:05:58

role Are they only do? Audacity. The work

1:06:00

away from yeah so like instead of. It.

1:06:02

Like my daughter operations I was going to be the third

1:06:04

interview and is like i don't really think it's that serve

1:06:06

you to the burden of you wanna I just do the

1:06:08

first interview and a third interview will have an apartment had

1:06:11

to the second one so now he's given me back my

1:06:13

time a little bit as well but some yeah it sounds

1:06:15

cheesy but I would say you honestly will just know and

1:06:17

it's just helps when you have fun of in your back

1:06:19

pocket a few lot back up that you can have asthma.

1:06:22

Because. Of them for us So for a for

1:06:24

us to even consider hiring someone it feels like

1:06:26

an enormous task or like sounded like I got

1:06:28

like and as a so easy to be like

1:06:31

okay well I'm sure they can improve as I

1:06:33

mean it's not a little yeah how it's is

1:06:35

exactly what's your tongue earlier. It's like you know

1:06:37

either just satellites you rationalizing like to like totes

1:06:40

the mobs. I do this thing here like that

1:06:42

it's it's I think that that's a big benefit

1:06:44

of having and operations role as well as they

1:06:46

can be in charge of recruiting like I don't

1:06:49

think you and I need like ahead of recruiting

1:06:51

like we're not hiring. That much so it doesn't

1:06:53

you to go to somebody. To me it makes

1:06:55

more sense to be in an operational position for

1:06:58

once again they're obviously probably doing to deal

1:07:00

with things as well. So like if you can

1:07:02

make it system eyes had ended, streamlined and then

1:07:04

they're just spending. Let's say like for example my

1:07:06

ah my Operations manager he has a time in

1:07:09

his calendar for one hour every Friday and it's

1:07:11

just called a queen out our and update recruiting

1:07:13

Pipeline said he just spent an hour every

1:07:15

Friday disperse as potential we're moving them along and

1:07:17

mean people have a potential and you can almost

1:07:20

as anybody do an hour But if you're like

1:07:22

dispersed. Has been fifteen hours a reason we do in the

1:07:24

recruiting process than eat dinner. Going to lose out on a

1:07:26

lot of other stuff. For

1:07:28

some listen to this he might be a who

1:07:30

might not be entrepreneur and his thinking oh my

1:07:32

god these guys of palace like talking about talking

1:07:34

about human being by the last episode. One

1:07:37

of the factors that make them on an indispensable

1:07:39

employee know Okay, good, okay, I didn't pursue the

1:07:41

I I have a tendency to do that sometimes

1:07:43

agree on. is this why I also feel like

1:07:45

people don't say the honest truth nine to my

1:07:47

somebody. Personally I like Valve. Yeah I knew exactly

1:07:50

how I feel because like it's a those even

1:07:52

more acceptable vouchers like oh, train them up and

1:07:54

coach them and like you can do it is

1:07:56

was no doubt about. like I said, you just

1:07:58

have to. Decide what you value more. Change.

1:08:01

Your question, what I feel like is indispensable. And boys,

1:08:03

so I think that the most underrated thing inside of

1:08:05

a company going back to the Cel is your vision

1:08:08

i'm sorry is your values. I think the values of

1:08:10

the most underrated thing inside of a company. So. I'm

1:08:12

in a position we look for always two things we

1:08:14

look for us skills fit and a culture fit and

1:08:17

a quarter fit as defined by us as a fit

1:08:19

inside of our values and we're Fi values and the

1:08:21

five values are We have our directly model from exactly

1:08:23

how I live my life. So because like I would

1:08:25

want to be a lot of my values because and

1:08:27

I couldn't expect somebody else to be outlined with as

1:08:29

I as okay missing So it's not like hey let's

1:08:31

ever the team together and come up with a shed

1:08:34

now and I get an allied I little a thing

1:08:36

when people came on board like yeah I don't good

1:08:38

really done as I could select amount as destruction says

1:08:40

you should and act. So. I

1:08:42

so I loved that and we have to follow E

1:08:44

O S. but I'd There's a few things I disagree

1:08:46

with and so like. I think even one of the

1:08:48

videos you commented on. I was talking about how we

1:08:50

run our t movie ends were young a little change

1:08:52

it up as really back and so I got was

1:08:55

from what I updated, some other things together at all.

1:08:57

Ironically enough, we did our first quarterly meeting offering fraction

1:08:59

and I was like or less to the values and

1:09:01

it was like. We. Spend so much

1:09:03

time trying to figure out the values everybody had

1:09:05

and at going back to what I had said

1:09:07

about. The. People that are on your team right

1:09:10

now may not be the people that you want to

1:09:12

be within the next three five years. So now people

1:09:14

that may not be there I said are giving you

1:09:16

feedback on what their value should be and now you're

1:09:18

making your company around the wrong person inside of their

1:09:20

yeah so like it's so My John literally has areas

1:09:23

right and then you don't you feel bad you want

1:09:25

a drink with and if there's one person in your

1:09:27

company in the future that will never leave it's going

1:09:29

to be you is going to the cel So I

1:09:31

just knew that okay what would and I also wanna

1:09:33

only work of people that I enjoy spending time with

1:09:36

his so I went. I would enjoy spending time with

1:09:38

me. Right? That's obvious and so like. okay

1:09:40

if I can just identify the values that

1:09:42

I follow my own life, There. I

1:09:44

can write those out and then I can say now

1:09:46

all these other people should share these vows and if

1:09:48

you don't. This what we tell people the

1:09:50

first interview we always do is us a culture interview.

1:09:52

If you don't share the same values then we say

1:09:54

live your. It's not that you're a bad person and

1:09:57

it's not even that our values are right or wrong.

1:09:59

It was that. We're looking for this person of

1:10:01

these values now. Would you ask me recently, what makes

1:10:03

the goods? Are a good employee. They. Need

1:10:05

to align with your values adds up. If they don't

1:10:07

allow your values I will tell you those are always

1:10:10

the hardest to let go. People that I've ever fired

1:10:12

is like to the get a job but it's like.

1:10:15

Very centimeter sam and like yeah they're essentially or

1:10:17

for every out if they're like if you base

1:10:20

your values off of you amp and then they

1:10:22

matter values are some. see somebody that you would

1:10:24

hang out with the subs those are always the

1:10:26

hardest even fire vs on me. That's like obviously

1:10:28

underperforming on so but it's not their fault if

1:10:30

they don't know the values on the first place.

1:10:33

So like. Every. Meeting we have as

1:10:35

a company we got the first now do is

1:10:37

go over the values like so we everybody my

1:10:39

team we call them right now I guarantee they'll

1:10:41

rebel values other top of their head without even

1:10:43

speaking as an the second things. That

1:10:45

are also makes a good employee good in my

1:10:48

opinion is I'm. That. Is their problem

1:10:50

solving ability? So going back to powers asian

1:10:52

like. This. Of following tracks and we

1:10:54

do. I do yes, Identified as doesn't solve and so

1:10:56

when we run these ideas, meeting some so we have

1:10:58

a team leader idea meeting every Friday and in every

1:11:00

department has their own idea as well. And so if

1:11:03

you're part of departments and there's an issue going on

1:11:05

and you're not providing any kind of input or any

1:11:07

kind of value in your just like sitting back m

1:11:09

and you're encouraged to speak in you have nothing of

1:11:12

value to as that's a little bit of a red

1:11:14

flag to me because it's like. Okay,

1:11:16

Let's say just for example, I'll give you a

1:11:18

perfect example. We used to have

1:11:20

video editors that. You. Know let's see their base

1:11:23

India some like that and they would give zero input

1:11:25

on anything there. It's like we're just tell them like

1:11:27

editors who do this when they would do it and

1:11:29

that was going back to what you said earlier of

1:11:31

like not knowing what a good at like I don't

1:11:33

know what a good video editor once and it wasn't

1:11:35

until I hired a new video better and he was

1:11:37

like hey I really think that you're a little bit

1:11:39

off brand with some of these things like this editors

1:11:41

editing this way, this editors having this way like why

1:11:43

don't we create a collective like graphics and colors of

1:11:45

and one was and I was the first I was

1:11:48

already us Media was like oh my god that's like

1:11:50

the smartest thing I've literally ever heard of. my entire.

1:11:52

Life like that and so even as far down

1:11:54

and this is under speckled a video editor but

1:11:56

like that is more of like I say commoditized

1:11:58

position as I even as or. Is that

1:12:00

like. Going back to what

1:12:02

I said earlier about the growth of the

1:12:05

business is based on the cumulative in knowledge

1:12:07

of those people inside of their if you

1:12:09

have the like video editor on as forty

1:12:11

person company and they are providing insights like

1:12:13

that then like that companies go rapidly grow

1:12:15

vs. it's like out of a forty percent

1:12:17

company there's three thought leaders and they're running

1:12:20

into that's what the coffee man risk in

1:12:22

enterprise and it's like they're running the entire

1:12:24

show. So yeah it julia with my values

1:12:26

are obviously or the Us feel fit and

1:12:28

the like how much of a thought leader

1:12:30

are they in. A pub running their opinion even

1:12:32

if they're in of opinions and correct I'd rather

1:12:34

as your it out some and be able to

1:12:36

justify with the rest. The team. Us:

1:12:39

how. Heavy duty or worth forty eight

1:12:41

or forty nine people. Yeah we're We're like

1:12:43

I said we're doing the entire reward right

1:12:45

now so like it's a little fluctuating bad

1:12:47

run around and what it's like one of

1:12:50

the world maliciously so us there's obviously Ceo.

1:12:52

mean ah I actually in in between Director

1:12:54

of Operations right now so I don't have

1:12:56

a D O L, but I did have

1:12:58

a deal Also it's mean Director of Operations

1:13:00

and and I have the rest. Executive team

1:13:03

is ahead of billing and support appliances as

1:13:05

director had of sales. They also on the

1:13:07

setting team and I'm. Much more

1:13:09

ahead with a get a head of marketing as

1:13:11

well. We used to have other media director on

1:13:13

that same level, but then I realized that like

1:13:16

they weren't really adding a lot of value to

1:13:18

the leadership meetings or mean it's not their photos,

1:13:20

just like. They. Wanted to talk about like

1:13:22

how much you thumbnail the continent are trying

1:13:24

to talk about like obviously like snail and

1:13:27

they become of them are So they became

1:13:29

hundred marketing and then so only marketing at

1:13:31

some like media buyers are them Them the

1:13:33

media director and in the media wrecker has

1:13:35

their team underneath them as well. At an

1:13:37

early to had a sales you have the

1:13:39

sales team members the setting team members are

1:13:41

inclined success, campaign manager, clients, us managers, our

1:13:43

community manager or sporting billing like any kind

1:13:46

of v a support and help scout responses

1:13:48

on strike, building, admin and then tech as

1:13:50

well and then the. Only other. God.

1:13:52

You people report to me is my executive

1:13:54

assistant and. I. Have a house manager. she

1:13:57

reports my scripts and my dad's isn't reports the me

1:13:59

and then my. My family office for

1:14:01

such as as a family of a serious felt I

1:14:03

was gonna do bit vague before it because you never

1:14:05

know minimum of on though the so this this what

1:14:07

they call outsource family or how cel mai you don't

1:14:09

need to be a billionaire to do it but they

1:14:12

help you with taxes and and like investments and all

1:14:14

that south are amazing. I love working with them. I

1:14:16

think they're minimum prices a million dollars a year or

1:14:18

take home that you have to be making only of

1:14:20

tears for like it's like twenty grand a get started

1:14:22

and then it's like five km on so you need

1:14:24

to be obvious to be making enough money that. Then

1:14:27

there's hack say i have any knowledge of the pay

1:14:29

them but then you have enough money to make a

1:14:31

tax plays that are going to cost like x amount

1:14:33

of money now as well so it doesn't make sense

1:14:35

province oh you're like when when fi to take on

1:14:37

what is your what's the stuff that you he hated.

1:14:40

That. Are So actually I was going to

1:14:42

have a youtube video that covers about this

1:14:44

as as as your analysis and death and

1:14:46

and my house manager as as to inside

1:14:48

a skill in school I had a great

1:14:50

like all of our task and side of

1:14:52

his google Zoc mobile but ah but yea

1:14:55

I was a majority She schedules entire Paris

1:14:57

mass minor that you're over your ass She

1:14:59

also does does any kind of are all

1:15:01

from all my email management, all my calendar

1:15:03

management confirming appointments organize my counter social schedules

1:15:05

all my personal appointments so every two weeks

1:15:07

hair caught, eyebrow writing manicure pedicure of know

1:15:09

my. Husband does my car wash or image

1:15:12

should you are my. I do a lot

1:15:14

of traveling solo. my trips traveling plan around

1:15:16

that. She also. Your. There's a great book

1:15:18

or by backer title and and martell. yeah so

1:15:20

I think he did it. come on your part

1:15:22

us are not yet of I would sort of

1:15:24

my mind he did this whole podcast or there

1:15:26

but I was asking ends are and he was

1:15:28

like adult higher for position higher four times and

1:15:30

I was doing payroll previously and other guy gonna

1:15:32

hire an Hr manager so hard this is our

1:15:34

manager and I was like this is so silly

1:15:36

for one thing that's so nice had my ear

1:15:38

Sergeants are now sees us payroll for me as

1:15:40

well. I'm I think those are the majority of

1:15:42

things and is literally just ad hoc things that

1:15:44

are going on. So literally anything that's like it

1:15:46

doesn't follow. The typical the apartments oh she's

1:15:49

also and on the idea meetings he runs

1:15:51

the agenda for that. She does the task

1:15:53

for the disrupting exactly so that allows both

1:15:55

me and be operational right honorable to go

1:15:58

thought leaders instead of the person. Hyping

1:16:00

the thing down the entire time such as she hops on

1:16:02

all those meetings as well. I'm.

1:16:05

Out of It has wrestled of the feel having a

1:16:07

fifty people. Are embarrassing the like

1:16:09

fifteen to twenty two thing I counter and

1:16:11

I'm like smooth, yeah, more than I would

1:16:13

live. You obviously have a doll managers that

1:16:16

probably helps. Nom. Yeah. I'm definitely

1:16:18

calling back the amount of people that we have for

1:16:20

dinner like I I, I don't want this big of

1:16:22

a team arm or at least like my revenue per

1:16:24

employee. I want to be higher arm. I think it's

1:16:26

very easy to justify like hiring a lot of people

1:16:28

now. Good because you have this big team like as

1:16:30

a life it is. But are we as efficient as

1:16:32

I could be? Absolutely not. And then it becomes more

1:16:34

about managing a team member than grow in the business

1:16:36

and. Yeah. I don't think

1:16:39

it really feels that much different than I did.

1:16:41

What I had: seventeen employees like it's not like

1:16:43

you leave your outfit scene is a three x

1:16:45

increase in stress levels. It's a point of diminishing

1:16:47

returns, especially if you have a good organizations like

1:16:50

I honest to god don't really talk to anybody

1:16:52

below my leadership team but often so I've been

1:16:54

dealing with the same. Five positions for

1:16:56

the past two years and I've as us we

1:16:58

could have one hundred employees got the employees and

1:17:01

employers have and been in some departments when we're

1:17:03

doing a rewards even if there's only to be

1:17:05

wanted apartment I'll still build like they still have

1:17:07

an apartment or weekly I'd yes meeting they still

1:17:09

a party organizations heart of this is that what

1:17:11

I want to just the structure that where we

1:17:13

can add people on build him in their vs

1:17:16

like oath were a small company like much as

1:17:18

can a small company. My view I mean let's

1:17:20

not even if you're smoke up there that you

1:17:22

suppose. Organizational. Chart with a wreck,

1:17:24

reports or idea meetings like okay be eyes,

1:17:26

scorecards, all that stuff that way so much

1:17:28

easier to plug the bull headed out versus

1:17:30

likes of small small company feeling of any

1:17:32

final like tips for me or training or

1:17:35

from five to ten or the think I

1:17:37

should be thinking of years ago. easiest thing

1:17:39

would be I'm. Like adjusting.

1:17:42

The product sweet so that they lead one

1:17:44

thing leads in the other a little bit

1:17:46

better in my opinion or one of the

1:17:48

main. Things. I see is a problem

1:17:50

as you scale going to be having as you tube on

1:17:52

over here and having this product of the arm of your

1:17:54

so like sometimes you have to kill off one thing for

1:17:56

the other one to really thrive and scale so I be

1:17:58

curious as the other please up obviously. You're doing

1:18:00

well and have you to think so. It's a

1:18:02

little bit challenging, but I would mostly like. I

1:18:05

guess that the bottom line is this: I'm. Of.

1:18:07

We have. we talked about Opportunity

1:18:09

Vehicles a lot agnes this conversation

1:18:11

south. You don't I would spend some time

1:18:13

identifying what is the one thing that you feel like

1:18:16

is going that let's say you go to ten million.

1:18:18

But really your goal should be like because want to

1:18:20

get a timeline What are national gonna be as twenty

1:18:22

Twenty Thirty Fps? So than the So is your know

1:18:24

that doesn't mean the next school The question I would

1:18:27

simply ask myself before I started like. Daunting.

1:18:29

And all that stuff would be like is this next

1:18:31

thing or the launch. The thing that can take me

1:18:33

not just a ten million but a clear path to

1:18:36

thirty fifty one hundred million as well. The answer is

1:18:38

no, I probably wouldn't start that thing right. Actors You

1:18:40

could probably just do it by doing more. which are

1:18:42

you doing inside of like Youtube So instead I would

1:18:44

take a second in the like. Okay for example for

1:18:47

me it's skill in school. that's our membership site. That's

1:18:49

what I feel like I can bring that's one hundred

1:18:51

million dollars an hour are especially. We talk on the

1:18:53

Sas as well. So like that is mine now for

1:18:55

so now that I have that as my saw these

1:18:58

I I little he told. By a team Nothing

1:19:00

we do or nothing we self now are are

1:19:02

absurd. Everything we sell has to be part of

1:19:04

feelings with has to include gun sorts of you

1:19:06

want a Vip day with rubbing fourteen day free

1:19:08

trial skills Will you come to Paris last month's

1:19:10

fourteen the it a free trials console you join

1:19:12

school system skill in school we just want a

1:19:15

weapon or yesterday you get six months a skill

1:19:17

in school. So once you get that like vehicle

1:19:19

where you have this is my hundred million are

1:19:21

your vehicle didn't become so much easier to look

1:19:23

at the rest your products and be like okay

1:19:25

I could keep on skilling for example the you

1:19:27

tube thing here but how am. I mean, yeah,

1:19:29

jump over here I'm and so it's just

1:19:32

for me, identifying what that one vehicle is

1:19:34

and then using the assets at your disposal

1:19:36

at your disposal. youtube channel, the courses, whatever

1:19:38

else it is. The. Only reason those things

1:19:40

exist or just to concede defeat in grow that one thing

1:19:43

that sick and when be planet more by still for

1:19:45

saw think it's more to have me on here. This is

1:19:47

of last for a conversation where basic if if if I

1:19:49

feel like you're going to talk about this for next

1:19:51

six hours of this massive i'd south pacific of by I

1:19:53

love to have those are great questions and I just as

1:19:55

app a huge fan of your work for very long

1:19:57

time and I get to say that on here but. I

1:20:00

love what you guys do you think that's

1:20:02

the for me? you can go. Actually I

1:20:04

probably ought since I just as bad skill

1:20:06

in school right? So that's our membership side.

1:20:08

It's everything I learned scaling to mostly figures

1:20:10

skilled school.com or you can find me and

1:20:12

eighty got a you Tube Instagram and he

1:20:14

does have the platforms at at Robbie Lawler

1:20:16

or a D I a be you the

1:20:18

ala nice links old i'm alone a description

1:20:20

shown us where people listen to this and.

1:20:22

Such precision. Right?

1:20:25

So that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank

1:20:27

you so much for watching or listening or the length and

1:20:29

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1:20:31

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1:20:46

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