0:00

it's a very quick thing before we get started if you have not

0:02

yet subscribed to the podcast either on you

0:04

tube or your favorite podcast app of choice and

0:06

please do it really helps us out a lot the

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only housing ninety minutes in a workday

0:10

what actually is going to make a difference

0:12

what is going to move the needle in my career

0:14

my business and austen it's it's

0:16

a very different answer than you'd expect it's

0:18

this moment of true for you have to do you

0:20

have to look yourself in the mirror and be so

0:22

honest as long as i thought the money

0:24

was evil business was bad everything

0:27

in that world was bad those are some of the most

0:29

powerful forces in the world i was like

0:31

guys you know someone in the desert

0:33

finding water i saw and i studied

0:35

i really looked into the numbers like what actually

0:38

makes a difference in people's lives and honestly

0:40

even boils down to one thing happened

0:43

and will come back to deep dive the ongoing podcast where

0:45

every week i sit down with inspiring authors creators

0:48

entrepreneurs and other inspiring people up as

0:50

far as had that waste of not are we talk about

0:52

the strategy than tools that can help us live our best

0:54

lives that middle by their journeys and how they got where they

0:56

are this conversation that you're going to here is

0:58

a conversation between me and my inset brand

1:00

and now real life friend that jago for take

1:03

yoga is on the world's foremost expert on productivity

1:05

apparently and has written a book which i've got his

1:07

somewhere cold building a second brain it's

1:09

a book is just come up very recently bought actually

1:12

i took his course building second brain and twenty nineteen

1:14

and it completely changed my life i would say

1:17

he trains were put my business obama the way i

1:19

approach my life and content creation and

1:21

my youtube channel and all the things my brother

1:23

joke that like just like i am the productivity

1:25

grew for various people on the internet jago

1:27

is my personal productivity growth we talk about a

1:30

bunch of things like like organization and productivity

1:32

about the concept of money and how is that the

1:34

how to think about navigating what us what to do with

1:36

your life we took a bunch about lead to misunderstandings

1:38

around what it means that actually be productive and then

1:40

we do a deep dive into the methodology

1:43

of building a second brain that will help you have place

1:45

organize your life and organize your creative output

1:47

whether that you work on your personal life so i

1:49

have enjoyed this conversation between me and yoga

1:51

forty the innovative

1:54

accommodation for the the first time you know anything

1:56

in the flesh yes i've been following your stuff

1:58

for the last three years now and

2:00

i remember the moment where i discovered you it was

2:02

in my brother who actually recommended your stuff

2:05

to me saying that luckily you know how you

2:07

are the productivity guru for all these people

2:09

in egypt tunnel him to jago should be your

2:11

productivity growth oh ,

2:13

went for a lab has been used all of the blog

2:15

posts and all that stuff to the court building

2:17

second brain know that we've been kind of friends

2:20

on twitter for the lot like three as via com

2:22

and on very simple here and there are

2:25

some i started on started house the your journey

2:27

for inspiring with talk about the blog about productivity

2:29

and creativity for the present wanted to start

2:31

wanted with is that you recently became

2:33

a dad yes and you have and note hot on

2:35

the way and i cannot imagine what

2:39

quote like have being a parent doesn't

2:41

like to stress test your time management

2:43

and like productivity systems so i

2:45

like how did getty

2:48

you were productivity bro before being a dad

2:50

and know your productivity broke me to that

2:52

will this is definitely see mode of operation oh

2:56

my gosh yeah ah became a

2:58

dad about eighteen months ago it

3:02

just radically the

3:04

strains your time energy attention

3:08

been with all of it i

3:11

, in multiple ways i mean obviously

3:13

want to spend hours a day this a day i would

3:15

not have guessed he

3:18

is painful to be away from my

3:20

kid for a day like ,

3:22

wouldn't think that i would be true of me i thought you know

3:25

i can go on trips i reckon an unknown

3:27

com business trips but i need

3:29

to see him every day if i don't it's painful

3:31

it hurts and so now

3:34

suddenly i have an hours a day commitment

3:36

that a commitment that i'll i love i really enjoy

3:39

arm which is such a contrast to before

3:41

where you know before having know before before

3:43

getting married especially i just had unlimited

3:46

someone and stay up all night and just

3:48

you know been learned something i did

3:50

if i wanted to spend the whole weekend do something i did

3:52

they wouldn't almost no constraints on my time i

3:55

see that's the biggest difference how did that

3:57

like of meet me to get healthy your your parent

3:59

now

3:59

john all that like business that you've got as

4:02

well writing a book

4:04

what happened on on a big

4:06

thing in your life

4:07

you can have on the

4:09

other aspects of your life unlucky silver see because i'm

4:11

very curious as to how because already i feel

4:13

like i'm not i'm here a but then

4:15

i think but i'm i did by doing that kid like come on

4:18

a guarantee yeah it's

4:20

it's to imagine the transition before it happens

4:23

arm but i think it's

4:26

hard it's it's painful because it's

4:29

just so much change you just

4:31

have a way you're you're you're used to spending your time

4:33

and has to all change but i think

4:35

now you know approaching two years and

4:37

it's it was helpful or , actually

4:39

interesting v having the kid coincided

4:42

almost perfectly with hiring a team with

4:44

her and people and you know i've always heard the advice

4:46

or you need to delegate you need to outsource

4:48

you need to you know pick the five percent

4:51

what is the five percent that would the one percent

4:53

most valuable stuff boats into you actually

4:55

need to you don't do that as you think

4:57

you do but when you only housing

4:59

ninety minutes in a workday it's this

5:01

moment of truth where you have to you have to look

5:03

yourself in the mirror and just be so honest

5:06

right like what actually is

5:08

going to make to make what is going to move the

5:10

needle in my career and my business and

5:13

often it's it's a very different answer

5:15

than you'd expect so i i think overall

5:17

basically to answer your question it's been a forcing function

5:19

has been a helpful constraint or i just

5:21

wake up in the morning and i have to ask

5:24

myself an answer what is the number one thing that

5:26

i need to get done today and just focus all of my attention

5:28

on that a because i can do

5:30

this item i asked myself what the number one thing i didn't

5:32

get that today and but then i actually out quite

5:34

a lot of time to do thing yes or and

5:36

and it's actually on days where the country's chockablock

5:39

with something is going to listen to the

5:41

the video he just for this gentleman and and so on worthwhile

5:44

the program and have to one of my book or right five hundred

5:46

words yeah i only have the settlement

5:48

lot to do this and he at night have done like parkinson's

5:51

law and a of us had a whole day for

5:53

only a video it take the whole data from the exactly

5:55

it's it's really true so

5:59

given them bet the one the lights off guess

6:01

is how did we get here how

6:04

, when i had a fitting for meet other and you

6:06

end up being one the world's most foremost experts on productivity

6:08

who what what with the journey yeah

6:11

i mean first of all i just replied as wrote that the

6:13

surface ah i just

6:15

you know almost aspiration only in

6:17

fact very us personally maybe three four years

6:19

ago said who who do i want to be how

6:21

i want to present myself to the world and

6:23

i wrote that i wasn't issue i the time but

6:26

it's something funny about kind of credibility

6:28

and expertise certain

6:30

people say it it's true enough

6:33

, of something like one of the world's foremost experts

6:35

now that it's that's been printed in the new york

6:38

times in the harvard business review on

6:40

radio shows and podcast and differing you tube

6:42

channels it's kind of it's become a selfish

6:44

filming prophecy prophecy but how

6:46

that happened under know how how far back to one ago

6:49

or so what did you do ups

6:51

of the school yes

6:53

of see i study business ah

6:55

i'm so i'm graduated in

6:57

two thousand nine sixty thousand

7:00

and two sixty and eight two thousand nine which if you remember

7:02

the us was remember financial meltdown

7:04

the financial implosion so there were

7:06

no jobs there were no possibilities

7:08

i had no particular skill i really

7:10

like i'm not the same as i'm really had no

7:12

particular the thing that i

7:14

was uniquely good at i'd studied business which is

7:16

kind of just like the standard thing to do ah

7:19

and so i join the peace corps i

7:21

can we are with the peace corps know what the hood

7:23

of it but yes it is a us

7:25

government agency basically ah that's

7:27

existed since the seventies early

7:29

sixties that basically pays

7:32

us volunteers of all ages to

7:34

go to usually developing countries answer

7:37

for two years of their two years and three months

7:39

i went to eastern ukraine the far

7:42

eastern portion of ukraine near the russian border

7:44

and is very random but i was an english teacher

7:47

there and i at i at school combine

7:49

middle school high school off for two years

7:51

when i was in my early twenties mid twenties okay

7:54

that's like you read this point we did really know what to do

7:56

realize exactly the thing via

7:58

same chemical the what will

8:01

happen next that's exactly what do as i had no

8:03

idea what i wanted to do there was nothing the seem particularly

8:05

appealing as i just thought how can i see how can extend

8:08

the student lifestyle whereas someone

8:10

tells me what to do assistance for

8:12

a couple more years that that so that these horrors

8:15

arm and he was in that it

8:17

was an amazing experience he was sounding was sounding he

8:19

of those siberian cyl winters in

8:21

i'm from california to meet before ukraine

8:24

a cold winter was like oh it's in the fifties

8:26

sixties fahrenheit's that done with that is celsius

8:29

arm but i had no experience a real winters

8:31

so that was challenging am i was in

8:33

the town completely by myself the peace quirks

8:36

doesn't want americans to be in the same place because and they

8:38

just hang out together all times so the only

8:40

american only the speaker for many miles

8:42

around in i

8:44

think what i learned is i learned that i like teaching

8:47

the english teacher so i was united a

8:49

job i would go every day to the school and and

8:51

teach you know from third grade to eleventh grade

8:53

so i had experience teaching from really

8:56

kids all the weight certain you know near

8:58

adults i learned that i love teaching

9:00

love teaching ah actually

9:03

that was the first time i i talk

9:05

kind of productivity related things out of

9:07

it as a time he was it was basically

9:10

study skills because , were going to these

9:12

classrooms and the inner the ukrainian

9:14

which is basically like a legacy soviet

9:17

education system is souls school

9:19

like until you've experienced what's a decades

9:21

old school system is like it's it's very different

9:24

there was no concept of study skills

9:26

a was just everything was pure rote

9:29

memorization everything was just this

9:31

is the teacher talking you for the whole class periods

9:33

memorize it regurgitated for that us and

9:36

so i started teaching you know how to take notes how

9:38

to set goals even just like for

9:40

your class how to make how to

9:43

like imagine it a student who has never had

9:45

to make a schedule never had to look at their agenda

9:48

ah and i just saw what saw tremendous difference

9:50

amazing are just as one example i would teach my

9:52

tenth and eleventh formers ah

9:54

how to do these things and then they would use those hills supplied

9:56

our university get into university

9:59

which is a completely life changing you know

10:01

i'm like changing thing for them and

10:03

so that combination of kind of productivity

10:06

said he skills project management with teaching

10:09

really started dispersed something in me during last

10:11

year saw okay i guess that's nuts

10:13

when like the with the would productivity i feel

10:15

like it's southern like would have

10:17

become popular often that time how

10:20

how were you thinking about it when you are teaching

10:22

the things yeah s that's a good

10:24

point i didn't think of it a free to leave it to productivity

10:27

at the time i didn't know i wasn't familiar with this

10:29

whole world of thought leaders and blogs

10:31

none of that you know i was only twenty

10:33

four years old i hadn't had

10:35

any exposure and so i i came back from ukraine

10:38

ah , get my for sort of real professional

10:41

job in san francisco and i

10:43

went from you know a village and eastern

10:45

rural ukraine straight to the epicenter

10:48

of silicon valley in a matter of like a

10:50

couple months to complete culture

10:52

shock reverse culture shock i wish in some ways

10:54

it's harder than culture shock you got us

10:56

eastern europe you expect i'm going to have some

10:58

difficulties you come back to california

11:01

and i came back to my home states and

11:03

i i just remember most of all being just

11:06

just shocked by the piece of work

11:09

in a we were in a corking space and downtown san

11:11

francisco surrounded by start ups

11:14

it was a was the quintessential information

11:16

overload the speed at which communication happened

11:19

email happened collaboration happened was

11:21

completely foreign to me about time that i

11:23

wonder what or what you mean by that

11:26

the

11:26

the paperwork he was just so

11:29

fast them in the morning would have a meeting someone

11:31

has an idea then the hour

11:33

after the meeting they write it up and then

11:35

midday at lunch they're discussing the next

11:37

to duration and then by the afternoon

11:39

and might be written up in a document that a shared with colleagues

11:42

around the world and to do all that

11:44

it wasn't just going fast you had to absorb

11:46

lot of information managed lot of information

11:48

keep track of a lot of information so

11:50

around this time i was introduced to productivity apps

11:53

i was introduced to digital know taking apps evernote

11:55

and others as introduce really to social

11:57

media i'd been on like facebook

12:00

in and things like that before but he

12:02

was such a crash course in just what it means

12:04

to be and knowledge worker and kind

12:06

of just like a modern information centric

12:08

percent and i guess if i think coast can

12:11

of most jobs these days

12:13

it is that kind of knowledge work where

12:16

raiders information flying in from all angles

12:18

even even in medicine to be honest like a

12:20

big chunk of the way i'll prices

12:22

of the doctor was using productivity principles to

12:24

figure out like prioritization and to do

12:26

this management and figuring out my schedule

12:28

for that aiming okay from wanted to have been teaching look

12:30

under the water and of from a till eleven so between

12:33

eleven and one anita do this list of jobs

12:35

let's figure out the ones that rely on other

12:37

people being a bottleneck like getting radiology to

12:39

prove my can request fast and like a cool and

12:42

do this of the requires waiting on things the entitlements

12:44

have like a waiting for list on my

12:46

old page they'll have solved using the

12:48

i pad people to leave the only thing i've had

12:50

what's that like near hum and it seems like

12:53

more and more jobs are actually

12:55

about managing know as in managing information

12:57

flows i , that's that's

12:59

mostly what jobs are these days is

13:01

year if you boil it down to the most basic

13:04

elements you have inputs you process

13:06

those inputs and turn them into a person

13:08

person you can mathis to to literally any

13:10

any job any kind of work which

13:13

is cool because once you cool you once

13:15

of boil it down to that level you can

13:17

learn from anyone you can look at chefs

13:19

and i've i've learned a tremendous

13:21

amount from chefs you can look at construction

13:23

and my brothers a construction manager a contractor

13:26

i learn things from him and i've talked to truck drivers

13:29

musicians comedians at

13:31

went at the most basic level of inputs and outputs

13:33

were all doing the exact same thing and therefore we can all learn from

13:35

each other mm yeah it reminds me

13:37

of this m e a bertrand

13:39

russell has an essay in praise of idleness

13:41

hum where he talks about i'm how

13:44

and he he wrote this in like the nineteen thirties or something

13:46

like that or maybe the ninth and tenth about

13:48

how how the modern world is obsessed with productivity

13:51

yeah he was , with one

13:53

hundred years ago and he was saying well what

13:55

is the definition of a job a job is

13:57

moving matter or about

13:59

the author this or telling other people to do

14:01

that a

14:03

and then our principal minute expand on

14:05

that definition or away which is like either moving

14:08

matter or meeting pixel or telling

14:10

other people to move matter or pixels yeah the yeah

14:12

surface of basically what we're doing his job

14:14

he has built has whole lives around this kind of construct have

14:16

construct have and our whole identities around in

14:18

a me feeling like oh my god i don't have a job live

14:20

on sleep medicine willing to do like who am i

14:23

only things as if either of moving something

14:25

from a to be or leaving a pixel from a to

14:28

be telling , people to do it's so

14:30

true if it's kinda crazy that that

14:32

is our job status what we do we have to become experts

14:34

in these weird esoteric fields

14:37

you know like something like you know personal

14:39

knowledge management or you x design

14:41

or you know a

14:44

these different methodology like agile or scrum

14:47

you used to be such a rarefied abstract

14:49

for like academics and like universities

14:51

now you know it is actually

14:53

power and dabbling in those things and applying them

14:56

because things think that i think the the thing that's interesting

14:58

about that that basic level of inputs and outputs

15:00

is and there's so much variation

15:02

so how well people do that orders

15:05

of magnitude variation you think it's had

15:07

to sympathize but it is clearly if you just

15:09

look at the economy look at the world there's

15:11

some people that you have very badly and some people

15:13

that do it astronomically well the intercept

15:16

so tell when i talked a lot about the idea of productivity

15:18

or there's one productivity book in particular in addition to

15:20

court building a second brainy august book that i've really

15:22

enjoyed of the last month and that is four thousand

15:25

weeks plane and how to use it by on of the

15:27

buckman who we in fact had as a guest

15:29

on the previous season of deep dive for you can

15:31

check that out that be linked down below and in the shown us

15:33

is genuinely really good book and it's all about canada

15:35

finish you to time and it's about like existential

15:37

is minutes about like what is the point of oldest productivity

15:40

as it takes a little bit more of a a

15:42

balanced and uplifting and

15:44

nice view of the whole productivity thing but

15:46

if you wanna get the key ideas from the book and maybe

15:48

don't quite have time to read the book in it's entirety you

15:50

might like to check out the summary of the book over a

15:52

short form who are very kindly sponsoring this

15:55

episode of the podcast if you haven't heard by now short

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15:59

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16:01

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16:03

it's way more than just a book summaries so they've got one

16:05

pagers for every book on the in the catalog

16:08

or they also have detailed a chapter by chapter summaries

16:10

so you can dive deeper into a on the other cool thing is

16:12

that they also have these little short form notes so for

16:14

example if the author of a book makes a particular point

16:16

if not point is particularly controversial old as

16:19

an author of a different book who argued against that

16:21

point very short form of like that up within the somebody

16:23

itself with a little short form the so they'll say for example

16:25

that hey if you've read gripped by angela duckworth

16:27

you'll find that she argued the exact opposite of

16:29

what other buckman is arguing for and four thousand weeks

16:32

and it's just really nice because it gives you a balanced perspective

16:34

rather than just imagining that a single authors what

16:36

jacuzzi patch it up in book format as gospel

16:38

truth the way our usual from personally is that firstly

16:41

if i get a book recommendation and i'm not one hundred percent

16:43

sold on reading the book immediately then i will look up

16:45

the summary of it on short form and based

16:47

on how i feel about the summary then i will decide

16:49

whether i do or don't want to read the book i also

16:51

use it because it's a great way of revisiting things

16:53

i've learned from books i've already read so

16:55

for example my two main ways of doing that on number one

16:57

rereading my kindle highlights which is all the stuff that

17:00

personally resonated with me but it's also really useful

17:02

to read the short form summary to see if there's anything that i've

17:04

missed or any particular that a in particularly

17:06

interesting point that has sparked some kind of thought

17:08

that resonates with something i read recently it's just genuinely

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good for getting a detailed summary of the thing that i can

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forward slash deep dive and not your i will give you

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so yeah thank you so much short form for sponsoring

17:23

this episode of the podcast i want to

17:26

talk a a little bit about the

17:28

concept of productivity because

17:32

the away you

17:34

know and i guess you and i are very for plugged into this particular

17:36

ecosystem and so we can maybe see the trend but it seems

17:39

like the world has

17:41

already the people we fall on her has sort of moved away

17:44

from productivity and now i feel a little

17:46

bit like earth when it

17:48

i was i was interviewed on a podcast me to the decal

17:51

me productivity experts tell us on

17:53

my part of know i am i'm a guy get into the

17:55

expert but also losing to be like our what's

17:57

the point of productivity leah life is about

18:00

than just productivity kind of kind of thing play

18:02

out how do you approach the word

18:04

productivity what i think as industrial

18:06

a kind of connotations of cranking up more and more with

18:09

yeah so couple things first i

18:11

like industrial age stuff lists

18:14

armed one of my biggest sources of inspiration

18:16

has been modern manufacturing or ,

18:18

theory of constraints just in time manufacturing

18:21

ah i'm in a high velocity

18:23

manufacturing automated manufacturing i

18:26

think sometimes we disparage that stuff to

18:28

are you know toward detriment detriment

18:31

manufacturing today is not you know it

18:33

like in the nineteen twenties these dirty

18:36

set sills you know exploit

18:38

it is arm is it

18:41

is it is something much different

18:43

it's very precise it's very technology centric

18:45

it's very clobbered his arm so i

18:47

don't his don't mind using factories as factories

18:49

kind of metaphor on boats

18:51

to can i answer your question more directly answer

18:54

your of productivity is a face it's

18:56

a phase phase in someone's life okay,

18:58

there is a a in your life or

19:01

it could recur so there could be different

19:03

phases where you have to think

19:05

about and then there's other phases where

19:07

you think creativity i really see productivity

19:10

s2 to the same coin for

19:13

my dad and my is one of those creative people

19:16

i've met imaginative creative,

19:18

but how does that creativity make

19:21

it out into the world is productivity

19:23

so he has these these very

19:25

systematic approaches and routines

19:27

and rules he uses from, you know,

19:29

the time day that he paints from this time

19:31

to this to how long he's spend

19:34

on each stage of a paintings to the way the

19:36

he takes notes and so i see this kind

19:38

of like pendulum productivity creativity, productivity,

19:40

creativity and if you go too

19:43

far on either, end of the you

19:45

start having diminishing returns and you start to get stuck

19:48

right? like like on both sides

19:50

so you can get so fixated on productivity, your

19:52

work starts formulaic, it starts

19:54

to become very and as time

19:56

that to kind of go to the other end of the spectrum

19:58

creativity but and you can go too far and

20:01

creativity that's when you get to precious you,

20:03

get now that's my artoo

20:05

has to be a certain way and you know talked

20:07

someone six months later, what are you doing on

20:09

working? on my my my one painting

20:11

for the last 6 months that also doesn't work, you're

20:14

not, you're getting stuck, you're getting your

20:16

getting sort of locked up in your own and

20:19

so i really see them as this kind of alternating

20:21

back and forth pendulum nice i

20:24

had a bit of thought you were saying that and i

20:26

think i've, i've never really full of the

20:28

to being being separate i get, i guess,

20:30

you know given a

20:32

bunch of videos i make having baby,

20:34

themed run productivity when people ask

20:36

oh what is productivity? i kind

20:39

of a a step back i brought in the hour and i

20:41

said yeah

20:44

would you then makes it more like gentle definition

20:46

that you complete your personalized your work life and

20:48

and who doesn't want to you the time or intentionally yeah

20:50

but the something about the word productivity that feels

20:53

a bit more like this is

20:55

a feel very worthy via and very much

20:57

like i'm generating economic output for my employer

20:59

and this is a bad thing via i'm any

21:02

any filter much the a couple things so

21:05

productivity is like efficiency like

21:07

efficiency sort of a synonym rights what

21:09

is efficiency if you again if you go back

21:11

to manufacturing it's simply minimizing

21:14

waste i think of it which

21:16

is one of the most important things important things

21:19

like when people say productivity as a matter i go

21:21

to the no matter the you now waste your

21:23

time you know does not matter

21:25

that you wish your attention does

21:27

not matter that you waste your ideas doesn't

21:30

matter that you waste your potential

21:33

like isn't that like almost will

21:35

life is about and it's easy to lose sight

21:37

of that if you think of efficiency but i really just

21:39

think about it as minimizing waste ah

21:42

and the other thing i'm gonna say out think about

21:44

other uses of the were productivity a productive

21:46

conversation would you say a productive

21:48

conversation is is you

21:50

know not is is ah

21:53

is anti human or is not benevolent

21:55

or is kind of removing the humanity

21:57

know i want all my the most intimate conversely

22:00

the with my wife i still want to be productive

22:02

that doesn't mean it's not a good conversation on

22:05

, alternatively think of a productive ecosystem

22:07

productive ecosystem the forest is a productive

22:10

ecosystem not because we went in and clear

22:12

cut everything and built and parking lots

22:14

but because there is value been created rights

22:17

and you could say economic though you but i just think of there's

22:20

plants been grown is animals

22:22

that are surviving there's evolution

22:24

this happening there's families

22:27

animals and humans that are being raised from

22:29

the sustenance of the forest so

22:31

i kind of like to to use or productivity because

22:34

it confronts people that's what i like to have

22:36

i want people to be confronted because

22:38

the same thing that has he kind of be triggered by

22:40

productivity if you follow

22:42

that thread you're going to get you

22:45

an incorrect assumption incorrect assumption believe

22:48

a blind spots that is going to let me your

22:50

life and in your career beautiful

22:53

i can feel my kind of mindsets hanging

22:55

about because i was within like he i agree

22:58

positivity the that of death was never left is

23:00

that would intentionally seal to me like that

23:02

but i like how you just like get productivity

23:05

the a good thing like cause to get thing

23:10

i'm he advocated again when people

23:12

like a , the anti productivity

23:14

movement seems to treat productivity

23:17

of being all about work in particular

23:19

and would say that off but

23:21

like personal life and wellness

23:24

and like self care is like really really

23:26

important and like do

23:29

you think of the separation of productivity at me

23:31

like what we're supposed to lie for like how how

23:33

do you think about it yeah you know

23:37

the think you

23:40

know being productive is ultimately about having

23:42

a a career you love

23:44

i mean you're not going to get the jobs you want you're not gonna

23:47

start the business you want you're not going to advance

23:49

if you're not productive you just not it's wishful

23:51

thinking and so you have to learn it and

23:53

then go beyond this but the were

23:55

think of this to his arm

23:58

you know most of my twenty i was working in nonprofits

24:01

our true microfinance non profit in colombia

24:04

ah during university is pretty my study

24:06

abroad i taught english in brazil and

24:08

and later in ukraine ah i

24:10

worked for the government in the peace corps select

24:12

peace big jordy my twenties i was bleeding

24:15

heart humanitarian heart was going to dedicate

24:17

my life to to see to service really

24:20

what i wanted to do but do i became

24:22

disillusioned with a whole idea because

24:24

disillusioned saw and saw studied i really looked

24:26

into the numbers like what actually

24:28

makes a difference in people's lives what knowledge

24:31

what training watson as is called

24:33

capacity building or whatever or is and

24:35

honestly you can boil it down to one thing if

24:38

you want improve from

24:41

one place at life outcomes all of them increase

24:43

their income increase

24:45

their income if you can read

24:47

that one dial the downstream

24:50

effects that they will take care of all the rest

24:52

they'll improve their health their family

24:54

will be healthier they'll improve their neighborhood they'll

24:56

improve their psychology dell invest in education

25:00

it's almost like people can be trusted people

25:02

know what's best for them but they need the

25:04

resources so i made

25:06

this hard pivot i thought business for

25:08

years was evil was bad i'm not

25:10

going to do business i mean it's hard pivot

25:13

from like humanitarian stuff into business collectors

25:15

thoughts i'm in a focus all my attention

25:17

on helping people have amazing careers and amazing

25:20

businesses cause that's how they raise their incomes

25:22

and then everything else is gonna be possibly

25:26

how did you get to that know

25:28

that that conclusion that the thing that matters

25:30

is reading people's income because i've

25:33

i've heard that idea before i've heard loud thing that

25:35

matters is education girls and yeah raising

25:37

them whatever have a a country or the thing that matters

25:39

is sanitation or vaccination of all

25:41

the things like what what

25:43

love your income yeah this

25:45

might be the controversial the controversial even know i

25:47

don't know if anyone if everyone would agree with that

25:50

i'm a bit were really came from was my

25:52

research in microfinance microfinance

25:54

it's funny because it is it's

25:56

not it's a non profits humanitarian and it's

25:59

you know developing work but it's also

26:01

finance in all the research

26:03

that's been done other side there's actually some major problems

26:06

with micro finance but there's some very

26:08

clear research that you

26:10

know people if they just have loans like

26:12

what is more mercenary then loans

26:15

what is more like oh yeah like eve

26:17

oh my gosh loans that have finance charges

26:19

and you're charging them interest and yet for

26:21

a lot of people microfinance has had a tremendous impact

26:24

a i guess it just comes from seeing that inaction

26:26

you know i worked for a a nonprofit in

26:28

colombia in the coastal region of carta

26:31

hannah which is the poorest part of columbia

26:33

and one of the poorest parts of latin america and

26:36

our loans were like fifty dollars the

26:39

hundred dollars few hundred dollars

26:41

they just needed a little x by

26:43

our standards like we spend that much on a dinner or

26:46

like a lunch rice and they would make

26:48

investments they would buy you know carts for their

26:50

business they would send their kids to school

26:52

ah for a month or two they would do they

26:54

would make his little changes that than had cascading

26:56

of facts arm and i guess is

26:59

something i observed that that increasing

27:01

your it's like it's it's i think very well

27:03

established that spots higher incomes

27:05

are correlated and i think causal

27:08

from all these other things for i like how are you

27:10

going to improve your health if you don't have money gives

27:12

zero financial resources what would you going

27:14

to do like you just to have that many options

27:18

another that's great like i've i

27:20

years since over

27:22

the last year or two my youtube channel has taken

27:24

a soft and rather a hardcover or a lot to

27:26

what talking about like business and entrepreneurship and making

27:28

money and , will occasionally

27:31

get comments from people being like i liked your

27:33

youtube channel when you were talking about how to study

27:35

for your exact yeah but now or you talk about

27:37

is how to make money in this is bad and

27:40

others to others thought that like the right

27:42

in that that is now the thing that i talk about that

27:45

like the way i see it

27:47

you know

27:48

i'm i'm all about helping people to live at a slice

27:50

and meet want to do that myself and hooked on a

27:52

beyond that of a documentarian of on think

27:55

that my best life will be out and as well like

27:58

without without having money what oh

28:01

what you gonna do yeah in in the that

28:03

sort of the first one problem that me and most of my close

28:05

friends have is like ah you know

28:07

i want to be self actualized i want my jobs

28:09

me with the thing that i enjoy i don't wanna be a wage

28:12

slave i have my my house may

28:14

have you know workforce fourteen hours a day for management

28:16

consulting and fun but like it's it's it's

28:18

too many hours yeah cause my best like because

28:20

i'm spending all the time with my employer fear and

28:23

he started the youtube channel started a podcast out of the business

28:25

twentieth do business coating on the site

28:27

and build a be streamed of income to buy

28:29

heard the freedom he has and use

28:32

her life energy the limited when we have on

28:34

this earth yeah on something a chasubles

28:36

to eat something women's education

28:38

yeah i'm trying to make a regimen

28:40

of a couple hackathon company element of richer yeah

28:43

and with money at it and and so i think

28:45

it's very easy to

28:47

the

28:48

very easy to cost shade on people the

28:50

out about money yeah thinking that like are evil

28:52

capitalist off making money is just about exploiting

28:54

the poor or whatever terminology and will

28:56

use for this and i see it like making money

28:58

a thief read every

29:01

everything else eminent into society that we let it

29:03

will you to say money's that the most fungible

29:06

resource it's the easiest thing to change

29:08

for anything else even more than yes

29:10

cause money you money you any way

29:13

to just a lift to survive so sure

29:15

going to do that anyway i mean money can

29:17

be exchanged for freedom like he said it can be exchanged

29:19

for connections that can be exchanged

29:21

for i mean still a thing i really

29:24

care lot about invest lot of time in his his personal

29:26

developments and personal development is so

29:28

expensive even something like this

29:30

a great example i'm a person

29:32

in meditation retreat it's free anywhere

29:35

in the world their centres all over three

29:38

hundred percent free know costs but

29:40

they're ten days for you

29:42

to to take ten days off from

29:44

work and ,

29:46

like offload your responsibility so know

29:49

so you have to be in touch with anyone cause you have no phone

29:52

phone more that's a hard even

29:54

calculate the monetary value of that so

29:56

even for something that is free you spell on

29:58

a time in ah and so i just think

30:01

money is this kind of base layer

30:03

it's this kind of basic security the

30:05

uni it's like muscles in a hierarchy you

30:07

need a certain foundation to be able to and thus

30:09

and freedom self development creativity

30:12

productivity all these other things depend on your

30:14

income something

30:16

about interesting people keep telling me i use what interesting too much

30:20

the did a book on a bookshelf got a happy

30:22

sixty millionaire by didn't even bother to numb

30:24

as the sun

30:26

yeah

30:27

carter above potatoes entrepreneur

30:30

this , the uk and hear the phrase

30:32

that health is your first foundation

30:34

because like without health there is nothing else

30:36

nothing the no point having the money be done money be health and

30:41

the thing that you just said almost sounds as if money is your

30:43

first foundation

30:44

then i will i wonder

30:46

like i'm just thinking aloud here but i i

30:48

wonder to what extent it's like once

30:52

you have sufficient money and then at that

30:54

point health becomes your first foundation but if you

30:56

don't to the very hard to take care of your health when

30:58

you literally broke because like yeah how

31:00

are you gonna find the time to do the healthy things

31:02

and to eat healthy meal to cook

31:04

the whole food and , on the place yeah

31:07

when are you trying to work multiple jobs to make ends meet yeah

31:09

i mean i think there's definitely a flywheel their synergistic

31:12

with each other but yeah being healthy is expensive

31:16

expensive healthier the food the more expensive it is and

31:18

the the worst the food is for you the shepherdess

31:21

which is like if you were going into the design and unhealthy

31:23

society that's how you would do it make the

31:25

worst stuff cheap and easy and convenient

31:28

and fast and everywhere and make the

31:30

the healthy stuff difficult to access

31:33

easy to spoil expensive and

31:36

so it takes it takes a real investment

31:38

to kinda get over to the side m b but

31:40

i mean obviously to to make money you

31:42

also need to have a certain level of kind of biological

31:45

know stability yeah yeah

31:48

yeah i think it comes to comes to that law of a

31:51

equaling up with the advice for different

31:53

people in different situations the exact

31:55

opposite advice may well work absolutely

31:57

the for someone like me and you probably

31:59

we the focus on our health the more than making

32:01

more money yes but if when we were in

32:03

our early days when we were in our early twenties on at

32:06

said it's awful and or whatever and up

32:08

when actually optimizing for a money is

32:11

is , not the with the you could do the and spending

32:13

a time cooking healthy food guide

32:16

to the gym elect has okay

32:18

fine but like you know that there

32:20

are things there are a different points in alive

32:23

certain things become more needle moving than others

32:25

vs i think for me and a good thing i've

32:27

been cards or people to do getting productive

32:30

and harming really good at your job become boudicca you study

32:32

the comedy going to work becoming really good

32:34

thing that you doing to than start a business developmental

32:37

stream of income that , actually a

32:39

really good thing to be day many young puppy i'm

32:41

usually follows up i

32:43

couldn't agree more i really think i really of

32:45

seasons also you know like when

32:47

i learn about whatever capitalists it's

32:49

productivity i don't want to be like of productivity

32:52

san you know it i want to like just

32:54

casually once in awhile as if it's

32:57

as if it's like i don't know like put like

32:59

perusing a magazine i cause is entertaining

33:02

pick up pick a goal pick a school you

33:04

wanna learn concentrate on it's intensively

33:07

immerse yourself intensively in it for a short amount of time

33:09

and in go do something else that's the whole point

33:11

is you acquire skill and any step

33:13

away and use it elsewhere yeah because it guess

33:15

the the thing about part of the that it's not an end

33:17

in itself is like a means to the end

33:20

of the thing that you want are you helping

33:22

you to do the things you want yeah and similarly creativity

33:24

is known as itself in the

33:26

tool to help you do the things that you want

33:29

in the world have the impact of a happy meaningful

33:31

like whenever people are which probably aligned

33:33

with those things via com and that

33:35

seen as we said going too far in one direction

33:37

or another you're in a way that

33:39

in there is a danger of worshipping

33:41

at the altar of the tool yeah rather than

33:44

the thing that the tool that he do he

33:46

asked like being a hammer enthusiast rather than be

33:48

as a carpenter them you have added another user and

33:51

hammer enthusiast i have other the world's

33:53

greatest collection hammers get what have you built

33:55

oh no this is i just clicked

33:57

hammer synthesis and find

33:59

that be illegal or cameras but i will be hot dog

34:02

has an unlit

34:04

that the thing they are they generally want to do i find

34:06

of ugly know taking ups or yeah it's a pattern of like

34:09

wanna try that one yet to come in the collect

34:11

revenue taking out rather than actually

34:13

writing which is and putting it out to into world was

34:15

is a thing i actually care about absolutely the

34:19

third we were in the

34:21

process of you do anything with the you join

34:23

son who went when back to san francisco and the you're

34:25

in your sort of early to a late twenties he

34:28

said that you made this hot pivot from the humanitarian

34:31

stuff to the business them what was

34:33

the story behind that haven't had that happen i had

34:35

like i said no business and money investing

34:38

ah productivity

34:40

business none of this but my mom

34:42

gave me one night reached at port as ah

34:44

yep rich dad poor dad changed

34:47

everything because it was my

34:49

first exposure i was like us

34:51

i was like a is you know someone

34:53

in the desert running water i

34:55

didn't know that's what i was missing i was

34:58

missing a relationship to in that his money

35:00

coming back to the subject of money which

35:02

was a relationship of abundance you

35:04

know as long as i thought the money was evil

35:06

business was bad everything in that world

35:08

was bad i was in

35:10

those are some animals pout might like most powerful

35:13

forces in the world's rights and

35:15

so i read that book i read the whole book in one night

35:17

i couldn't sleep entire night read it through the

35:19

night and i just kind of was

35:21

in was daze and i just thought oh my

35:23

gosh business this business this i realized

35:26

from reading it business can be the vehicle

35:29

for everything that i want to create in the world for

35:31

the impact a positive impact i wanna

35:33

have the people i want to help the education

35:36

i want to create the life outcomes

35:38

for people that i want to i want to change business

35:40

can be my friend instead of my enemy and

35:43

i made a complete life to this ah

35:45

went went from from studying

35:47

international development in school to study international

35:49

business ah started you know

35:52

writing i've started writing and

35:54

publishing my first little bits of content online

35:56

i really just shows business as my means

35:58

for

35:59

for having the opportunity

36:02

why do so many people a seemingly

36:04

at least the ones were active on twitter why

36:06

do they feel so like anti business

36:10

i think of her arthur andersen arthur andersen

36:12

we were taught the other making

36:14

money people have so many i'm sure you

36:16

see this all the time so many limiting police are making

36:19

money ah , making

36:21

money means you are compromising your integrity

36:24

integrity money means you're taking advantage of people making

36:27

money means you are losing yourself

36:29

and not being authentic like there's some

36:31

billie and we'll have these we never actually

36:33

completely let go of all those beliefs are lurking

36:36

back here in our psychology on

36:38

but those things you know they have truth in

36:40

them but they're not that sure sounds like money at the root

36:43

of all evil yeah side of stuff yeah yeah

36:46

i remember to use a gonna have a

36:48

year and half go i had a cool with you

36:50

and me from the front david about a this

36:52

of course that i was i was going to time ,

36:54

or academy and i was thinking oh you know

36:56

i'll do it as a prerecorded thing i'll sell it for

36:58

like two hundred dollars why don't we ponder upper neck

37:00

but unlike the idea of selling it myself but i said it

37:04

it it okay yeah well you

37:06

and baby will be kind of laughing it was like it sounds

37:08

like you think making money is evil or sounds like

37:10

you think selling something is evil yeah but

37:12

what if that's not true and you sort of china's

37:14

me to question my assumptions around that yeah that

37:16

actually what is money money is an exchange of really

37:19

yeah and if you're providing something that is believable

37:21

and doing it in a way to flick authentic and and and with

37:23

integrity and stuff yeah and people pay you for it that's literally

37:26

how the world runs yeah and that that is not an evil

37:28

thing i'm there are so many greatest that i speak to

37:30

now that i i recount that conversation to

37:32

when they're like oh it's okay for me to

37:34

get a due to do a sponsored video sponsored

37:36

by square space or brilliant skill share whoever

37:38

humphrey supposed to exist but i'm bomb

37:40

as soon as i tell my product suddenly becomes

37:42

oh i i couldn't do that my audience

37:44

would hate me you won't becoming a setup for

37:47

selling my own thing yeah yeah it's

37:50

so common so com and the internet

37:52

almost makes this worse because you can just create free stuff

37:54

forever and you'll get

37:56

paid somehow may be like sponsorships

37:59

or no ads or something but

38:03

it's a certain business model that we both found

38:05

finding the most engage people

38:07

who are building their own businesses

38:09

can can really be a great business

38:11

and really impactful for them and we're talking

38:13

before recording that someone

38:16

can hear a piece of advice a hundred

38:18

times but then you look

38:20

them in the eye and you say do x

38:23

exit the right path for you and some

38:25

other like oh wow that really sunk

38:27

in it's the power of teaching it's of our

38:29

coaching as the power of interactive you

38:32

know forums

38:35

the

38:36

where i get i guess at this point where in

38:38

your early thirties you've made the pivot the business

38:41

know how do you go from today's

38:43

, bro to kind of business

38:46

growth to world's foremost possibly experts

38:48

calling calling a couple steps and between

38:51

and yes let's see i

38:53

it took me years it took me years

38:55

because i you know how you first professional

38:58

job and san francisco which was in consulting

39:01

learn so much their consulting consulting is great for

39:03

young people also because you just get exposure

39:05

to so many different kinds of businesses every month

39:07

is a different clients and so one day

39:09

or in you know petroleum or find refinement

39:11

another ah months here and like

39:14

self driving cars another mature and cut

39:16

something completely and packaged goods and

39:18

so i can have this brought exposure to different

39:20

businesses are the one i like the most by

39:22

far as education right that's just what i loved

39:25

ah and i quit that job

39:27

one day when i just couldn't take it anymore

39:29

i wish i could say had a plan but it was like rage

39:32

quit like i just can't take this arm

39:34

and a reason for i was i just remember putting in

39:36

more hours and i had ever put into anything i

39:38

mean consulting is anything you work just

39:42

absurdly long days you work

39:44

late into the night you work on weekends you travel

39:46

and work even longer and i just

39:49

realized wait realized minute longer and keep doing

39:51

this for years and i remember had

39:53

my first performance review i was tell the story

39:56

the first time someone had ever sat down and

39:58

talked about my career what you want for

40:00

your careers is great but an eight my

40:02

manager laid out the path and and she

40:04

was like okay couple more years you can go from

40:06

junior project manager to to project manager

40:09

couple years his senior project manager

40:11

few few more years after that seated you

40:13

know project director and

40:15

she was laying in l like like he was so inspiring

40:18

and amazing and i was like my

40:20

god i'm going to waste the most

40:23

productive decade of my life to

40:26

, his career ladder i might as well

40:28

do that for my own stuff and invest in my own

40:30

my own stuff and so i quit

40:33

ah i'm and that started kind

40:35

of the kind of employment journey

40:37

how do you quit

40:40

i'm a little the privilege of being

40:42

single childless ah

40:45

i really had very little savings on

40:48

i eat you mean like how mean did a financially

40:50

like how like actually did at the i like the final

40:53

thing out of cricket out vs

40:56

i'm i'm i'm i have piccolo and

40:58

i feel like every other personally meet meet

41:00

these days is like i'm thinking of quitting my job yeah

41:02

like great and are like ah but

41:05

money via you know what i think living

41:07

abroad had really taught me just

41:09

how little i can get by on it is

41:12

really something really something you have to learn for

41:14

yourself or ukraine i think i

41:16

survived unlike two hundred and fifty dollars a month

41:19

my total budget and of course as ukraine rights

41:21

but you just get creative you learn that you

41:23

can rely on other people you learn that you

41:25

can make money goes so far

41:28

when it comes to food even crash

41:30

on people's couches you can travel cheaply

41:32

you can have fun she plates you don't have to

41:34

go out to a posh restaurants you

41:36

can play a card game with you know your neighbors

41:39

and so i just knew from experience

41:41

in the peace corps in columbia in brazil

41:43

that i i needed so little financially to

41:45

get by course i was a san francisco

41:47

the most when i'm most expensive places in the

41:49

united states so i think i had about

41:51

six weeks a savings at our six

41:54

weeks that i could survive before needed new income

41:57

which it turns out was the best

41:59

center and if i had had even six

42:02

months it would have been that slice because

42:04

you know six weeks okay i have two weeks

42:07

to plan something two weeks to

42:09

launch it and then hope that it makes money within

42:11

the last two weeks stuff was literally

42:13

the timeline test and so i just went on

42:15

skill share which is the only afraid of

42:17

yeah it was skill share is the only only

42:20

educational far from that a new if dreaded

42:22

have time to the research how to spend two weeks to research

42:24

rights or i said no let me just go on skill

42:26

share the , thing that i knew how to teach was

42:28

productivity because i taught it in a score

42:30

and swimming like like state seven years ago

42:32

before they started sponsoring everyone video yeah so

42:34

since two thousand and thirteen up a lot like

42:37

my evidence yeah thats kosher

42:39

yeah it was just when they are pivoting his skill

42:41

share was originally and person classes at the

42:43

would organize like workshops and cities and

42:46

they they decided us to harvest to spend some so

42:48

they pivoted online i was in the first with

42:51

with was helpful writes ah

42:53

and i just i didn't even have time to research

42:55

different subjects i just got the getting things

42:57

done book which was the most recent book that i

42:59

had read like did that did how

43:02

little of research and preparation i did

43:04

when i look back was just it was just insane

43:06

but i just had no time for has parkinson's bargain

43:09

it is so i just created a course

43:11

best directly on the spock which i can't

43:13

recommend exactly because i almost got

43:15

in trouble with the loss ah i

43:17

had to put a disclaimer you know this is not officially

43:19

approved by the david allen companies who is who ah

43:22

but that cope out very first course which i

43:24

created within a few weeks ended up doing well

43:26

and paying the bills for like a year year and a half

43:29

i got very lucky yeah

43:31

but okay third where

43:34

you can allow what we gonna do if things didn't work out

43:36

in the six weeks how's probably going to

43:38

move home and live on my parents couch

43:42

i was starting to look at like local jobs i

43:44

applied at target i applied at

43:46

like plate leno little retail

43:48

shops at the mall i was i had some plans

43:50

and prosecute of course i didn't know was gonna

43:53

work i seem to was not going to work here and

43:55

there was a number things that happened that made me get very

43:57

lucky like skill share picked up my courses

44:00

it it was like on the front page of skill

44:02

share our the timing was really good

44:04

with productivity south people really getting interested in productivity

44:06

it's online education was taking off

44:09

they were there was a number of factors that got really lucky

44:11

but then also course it was it's i

44:13

had tried other things calling your story like

44:16

your first overnight success

44:18

is a really like the tenth thing that you try

44:21

rights and so is a combination

44:23

of luck chance timing ah

44:25

but then i used that year

44:27

year and a house it was barely enough

44:29

year of barely enough money to make it a year

44:32

year and a half to to just really

44:34

for next three four years i just strung together

44:37

literally like one or two months and rented

44:39

a time i would go work and events

44:41

make another few hundred dollars i would do

44:43

with random consulting project for friend

44:45

make another you know couple thousand dollars i

44:48

really for good three or four years

44:50

it was like month to month maybe a few

44:52

months at a time if i had three months of

44:54

rent paid so that was like plenty

44:56

of runway and

44:59

i get you a would it would be

45:02

kind of irresponsible to take us to risks now now

45:04

that you have like a family and a cast of to support

45:06

have some of the ability to take

45:08

those sorts of asymmetrical risks were as

45:10

a downside capital of the up like a huge i

45:13

think a lot easier to do when you're not supporting

45:15

a family town like

45:18

it's yeah it's isn't really set up third one

45:20

of my when my close friends as loathing

45:22

you know read what kind of management consulting

45:25

job earning way more than six figure the

45:27

air and kind of thing him and she's

45:29

like off i know want to quit my job like

45:31

how will i get that back to that

45:33

level of income yeah and like to to really need

45:36

hundred fifty kr to survive at a single

45:38

person when you gonna go home in the

45:40

blue pants albino an hour okay

45:42

fine but like to see how to it's not like about

45:44

things like no no not really yeah like

45:46

what he actually schedule the remind

45:48

it reminds me of the story of that that

45:50

cartoon of oil some kind of purple

45:54

where there's this kitten that does they go to the

45:56

zoo and they see these two elephants

45:58

month the little baby elephant and ones and big mama

45:59

and the baby elephant as a chain

46:02

a metal china touched with leg than that

46:04

because like daddy was the retain it has to the like the

46:06

omen and the doppler oh well

46:08

you know the the in a bit a baby elephants like letterman

46:10

round the lunch escaped and so you know the chain

46:13

stop them from escaping here and

46:15

then they look at the mama elephant pursuit elephant

46:17

enormous and he's got a little piece of string via

46:19

husks to the foot a wrestling with

46:21

attack

46:22

the not put a good like metaphor

46:24

for these invisible shackles

46:26

these limiting beliefs the hadith back yes

46:28

i run into this all the time myself i'm like oh my

46:30

god what if the business folds what it's like

46:33

this and that and then i speak to someone

46:35

as i broke you've got my tenure the runway just

46:38

by choice or senior investigator you literally have

46:40

tenure the runway like shit your shit i

46:42

agree we need and the next ten years you want him to figure

46:45

something else it's crazy like why do you need

46:47

of under fifty k your to live like you can literally to me

46:49

back home or hang out with friends and make something

46:51

happen via a really

46:53

is true it's some you

46:56

know the fact that the my

46:58

salary at that consulting job was so

47:00

low it was criminally low like it was

47:03

barely survival one san francisco was

47:05

francisco blessing because blessing nothing to lose i'm

47:08

going to go from one subsistence salary to

47:10

another sisters it's subsistence salary

47:13

and so i think you need constraints like

47:15

the best way to destroy someone's motivation

47:18

and productivity and momentum give them a ton

47:20

of money give them a ton of time give them a

47:22

ton of freedom when you have

47:24

an over abundance of those things you just start

47:26

floating in space because

47:28

there's no hard line there's

47:31

no wall there's no constraint for you to

47:33

push up against and and

47:35

for the that that's going to force you to kind of maker

47:38

make a choice yeah yeah this

47:40

must be something be something in a

47:42

business book recently around like kind

47:44

of building start of stuff where

47:47

it is kind of the idea that before

47:50

a business has figured out their money printing machine

47:53

very exhilarating very a very like and

47:55

more hands on deck when you know we need to make this happen

47:57

there is a sense of urgency a sense of energy the

48:00

place and as soon as the businesses figured out

48:02

what it money printing machine as and now the scale

48:04

another get more people on board yeah suddenly

48:06

start character and but bullshit things last

48:09

ah i want everyone to only be working six

48:11

hours a day i want to make sure we have been bad

48:13

for to make sure we have massages at work and

48:15

yellow this stuff and

48:17

you often hear from people that the early days

48:19

were in way more fun than the stating

48:21

day when we had the table tennis table in the bean bag and

48:24

all the puck that you could you could dream for us

48:26

because there is there sense of urgency when you

48:28

like you like to make this work via and

48:30

wanted working elite than a salon is

48:32

very easy to be like oh this

48:34

is good and that's very true that we all had

48:36

like i'm by think there has been a danger

48:38

of a lot of big businesses

48:40

have moved so much slower than school of business as all a

48:42

big mister says are at risk of and see failing

48:45

because they don't have that momentum that

48:47

philip does absolutely nothing

48:50

that same kind of principle applies to a personalized as

48:52

well yeah there is a level of like keeping

48:54

up this previous years just generally

48:56

been as only the doesn't only been you on stress you out

48:58

to the point where it's like chronic of a such a long period

49:00

of time vs but there is some energy

49:03

and

49:03

the idea of whom he says and the i

49:05

would have until you make you stronger yes a

49:08

little bit of calorie restriction is good for the body and

49:10

a little bit of sleep deprivation is good for us a little

49:12

bit of like having to run and

49:14

, being a strategy mason is good for yeah

49:16

i'm where the for a couch potato with a catheter

49:19

and like a video game controller all day living a very

49:21

comfortable less less it

49:24

does not progressive yeah it's not progressive

49:26

true so

49:29

what what wasn't in your journey that

49:31

then close things to quit take off

49:33

and where are , move away from the substances

49:36

for subsistence living month to month kind of lifestyle

49:39

yeah so it's a kind of slowly change

49:41

and i tried i tried so

49:43

many things didn't for while i

49:46

, let me go on a consulting cousin has

49:48

super low overhead right it's just one person

49:51

person wasn't very good at that didn't enjoy it much

49:53

then i went into corporate training so thought i

49:55

know how to teach that was more profitable

49:58

that's when the money started getting better by

50:00

i was just in these environments working in silicon

50:02

valley for some on so you know wealthiest

50:05

corporations in the world and i lost

50:08

the humanitarian service

50:10

side of i i was working enough

50:12

his company's is making their the world's wealthiest

50:14

companies even wealthier which is no problem

50:16

with that river as we were saying but

50:18

it just wasn't very satisfying i needed to work with people

50:20

who were just starting out people who are in need

50:22

people who had a problem arm

50:25

and soak and soak at the same time

50:27

i was taking elements of all these things like from

50:29

consulting even though didn't really work i learned how

50:31

to talk to companies that's a skill the

50:33

be able to come into a business meeting and have a business

50:36

conversation price i learn

50:38

how to price things i learned just how

50:40

much money corporations house and

50:42

how much they're willing to spend without you know without

50:44

that difficult to the process from

50:47

corporate training i learned how

50:49

to structure you know trainings i learned how to design

50:51

workshops i learned how to ah

50:53

to deliver content in a way that a professional

50:56

ah could take in and take seriously

50:59

ah but then i went online education actually

51:02

even online education didn't really work because

51:04

i had i had first gtd so

51:06

as course as i thought oh this is my jam

51:08

the first my first try was a success

51:11

i i'm a master well the second

51:13

and third and forth attempts

51:16

fails because gtd

51:18

has a built in audience has adults it's a movement

51:20

and so there's like a ready made demand ah

51:22

my had much more difficult in fact i i haven't

51:25

to this day launched another successful self discourse

51:27

so that also was no my skill i didn't have

51:29

the production capabilities i didn't have the

51:31

planning capabilities and ,

51:34

i just kept trying things trying to

51:36

find my niece and it ended up being the most

51:39

you know something you know have never guessed which was

51:41

cohort base courses was

51:43

taking the business stuff from

51:45

consulting the training from corporate

51:47

training the teaching of self paced

51:50

courses combining all of them into

51:52

an online course but one that is delivered live

51:54

via zoom in a way that doesn't require

51:57

so much polish doesn't require some was

51:59

preparations or not that ah

52:01

the was are all about the human connection

52:03

and about interaction and coaching through zoom i

52:07

guess it's all about has now become a sudden the the

52:09

book yes building second brain

52:11

second brain method to another organized with his life on

52:13

a lock your credit potential like how long we've been running

52:15

costs would with within the whoa or what the story

52:18

of kind of the the course and it's sort of yeah

52:20

so it's wild because i never i never

52:23

made long term plans for this i never tried

52:26

i never thought much into the future i really just ran

52:28

one covert at a time so

52:30

i did a like a beta cohort in like

52:32

december two thousand and sixteen ah

52:35

co or one the first official co or

52:37

was like january february two thousand and seventeen

52:40

ah , now is this

52:42

now we're not the spring summer two thousand and twenty

52:44

two if we don't fourteen cohorts which

52:47

is just insane to me like i really it's

52:49

the same way earlier that i want from paid from

52:51

paycheck to paycheck and then one month's

52:53

rent to the next month's rent out can use

52:55

to that as used to very short term

52:57

you know finances finances really

53:00

for the first like seven eight

53:02

nine cohorts it was just make enough money

53:04

in this cohort to run the next one that's all

53:06

i thought about until very recently ah

53:08

and it's just kept going each cohort each little bit

53:10

better a little more profitable a little bit

53:13

bigger until i couldn't a

53:15

you know for to do things like hire a team higher

53:17

higher people how did you get your first to customers

53:20

it was all friends okay it was

53:22

i think i i had a personal relationship with every

53:24

single person in the first cohort it was like colleagues

53:27

, coworkers people in the co-working

53:29

space that i had met over lunch friends

53:33

xs i just went into

53:35

my social networking was like any favor

53:37

that i have and it really wasn't that i'm doing me

53:39

a favor yeah those early cohorts

53:41

i i i'm sorry i'm sorry

53:43

to those people because it was i would just

53:45

show up on a zoom call me with some slides

53:47

and it was just extemporaneous

53:50

it was it was improvised improvised

53:52

around cohort six seven or

53:54

eight i started to really have pride in

53:56

what we were we well how much were charging

53:59

so started a five hundred five hundred

54:01

yeah which was co her one which is a huge

54:05

that sounds cheaper sense of i'm really expensive

54:07

a was so rights because it was

54:09

my myself this horse previously

54:11

was fifty bucks and or even less is a

54:13

twenty five at the time that

54:16

it wasn't our ages price on it was it

54:18

was it was kind of justice board

54:20

leap to say if i'm in a young calls

54:22

with he over the course of a month if i'm minutes coach

54:24

you interact with you consult with you if i'm gonna

54:26

be your personal second brain expert

54:28

this you know what it really was i

54:31

charge not as it online course

54:33

creator or charges a consultant news

54:36

as if i was your personal consultant

54:38

which within a framing partner or to seep

54:40

through that's what it is yeah it's like a recount

54:42

ray like five dollars for an online course oh shit that's really

54:44

kind of the farmer dollars for like corporate

54:47

, about that way to cheat is socially

54:49

disadvantaged disadvantaged wifi the price

54:52

so every cohort i would release a whole

54:54

bunch of improvements since increase the price

54:56

hundred dollars and with six hundred seven

54:58

hundred eight hundred and hundred there was always a reason

55:01

that a com response which was like the new the

55:03

are in seoul we were reached the scene

55:05

hundred dollars for the lowest tier oh and then we started

55:08

releasing new tears a second tier third tier

55:11

or we stopped at the scene hundred because i wanted

55:13

to be accessible which is funny because

55:15

like fifteen hundred dollars you

55:17

know it to with one framing not accessible at

55:19

all but we could also just continue to

55:21

raise the price but i kinda wanted to be something

55:23

that is on par with like

55:26

a weekend vacation him or going

55:28

to a conference or investing

55:30

in a personal coach or consultants like sixteen

55:32

hundred dollars is it's a serious amount of money but

55:34

it's there are other things in life that we

55:36

invest fifteen hundred dollars and yeah i

55:38

think it's an interesting point because to

55:41

some people what's going to think this will be like fifteen

55:43

read dollars like how can you possibly

55:45

due to that much for something that completely absurd

55:48

cannot believe it and like or feldman for

55:50

another thing when people watching this is like athena dollars

55:52

have like ten times cheaper than the corporate training i spent

55:55

like to think ronald last week via an assist like

55:57

completely different approaches to money via and

55:59

one thing that a lot of my consulting

56:01

friends have said is not working and consultant

56:04

makes you realize how broken the world

56:06

of money actually is mm because

56:08

like the amount not corporations

56:11

have to spend is so

56:13

astronomically different you don't even fathom the scale

56:15

of at compared to the day to day that we

56:17

spend being like not three dollar fifty

56:20

coffee at starbucks with a little expensive yeah to

56:22

p a t t p seventy seems a bit more bit

56:24

more reasonable yeah and in a way unless

56:26

you've you know i know i struggle

56:28

to the could explain to

56:30

my mom in the sense what she's like he

56:33

authentic how much on discourse on how much on

56:35

the surface of how much of the team members like michael used everything

56:37

yourself with you doing is of and like about

56:40

the money doesn't have experience in in business we're

56:42

thinking about five six fifth or

56:44

five six figure expenses of my bloody help us like

56:47

ten years with sour yeah but it's

56:49

just like a different yeah

56:51

it's a completely different mindset to tax deductible

56:55

that i mean i'm in california some of the highest

56:57

taxes in the u s you're in europe and it's

57:00

just a complete different mindset because you

57:02

are paying with that pre-tax so

57:04

you actually want to spend money it is

57:06

to your benefit defined as many ways as you can

57:08

spend the money as possible because then you're your tax

57:10

bill as the government is in a way paying

57:13

you to spend money yeah they're giving you like

57:15

a refund on your taxes because

57:17

you've made these investments in your business yeah and

57:20

business get the group is going to be from people that thing eu

57:22

tax avoidance that but avoidance was like most like

57:24

well like mean if the economics works we want people to spend money

57:27

yeah providing attack [unk] for

57:29

business to spend copious amounts of money individual

57:32

doing corporate training or small businesses more bigger

57:34

the say the mind that literally how the world works yeah

57:36

like physicists any money and like money

57:39

as an essentially people on

57:41

the audio trickle down economics economics

57:44

free then sort of get used

57:47

in the plight of the wrong thing he had a really like a business

57:49

was founded on the money to spend that

57:51

money on food the smaller mentors

57:53

and they spend money on the full of endothelium supplies

57:55

and you end up with yeah

58:00

that's how works i mean young age

58:02

would you everything obviously by the book you have to it was

58:04

just not worth that you do everything by the bug bites the

58:07

government is shaping your behavior they're

58:09

saying spend money here don't spend it there were

58:11

just were just following the incentives

58:13

and yes any money accordingly cel mai

58:15

the government says the like you can't the

58:18

optimal if i clothing for example him but

58:20

you can bring and though i'm not

58:22

gonna buy a fantasy for me to a bit of videos could that

58:24

not legit yeah but like i am courses like to

58:26

yeah yeah yeah and then in a way

58:28

that incentives encourages investment

58:31

in education trade us and a way that it

58:33

doesn't include investment including or an alcohol or

58:35

and petroleum or one of our

58:38

national some of comfort

58:40

from the book you mentioned something and oh you're in a conversation

58:43

etti of just in time and you externalize

58:45

what externalize what what what just in time mean for productive yeah

58:48

so this goes back to manufacturing this

58:50

is i mean just in time

58:52

manufacturing completely changed the entire world week

58:55

to to an extent of we all realize not

58:59

a lotta people notice history but toyota a

59:01

motor company that you know the maker

59:03

of cars they introduced this

59:05

way of building cars which was instead

59:08

of stockpiling all the resources

59:10

you need you know all the parts

59:12

and the rubber and all the different things you know i

59:14

dunno on the factory floor they

59:17

would have this network of suppliers where they would

59:19

decide what car they're going to produce and then

59:21

just in time just days

59:23

or even hours before they would just pull

59:26

it would bring all the parts into the factory

59:29

producer right then and ship it off which

59:31

sounds like it's this weird esoteric why does that

59:34

matter it matters tremendously five

59:37

using things just in time using resources

59:39

just in time you not only improve speed

59:41

which is nice you improve

59:44

ah sufficiency which is great but

59:46

an unexpected thing with that is you improve quality

59:49

of at quality gets radically higher by

59:52

it's it's can as hard to explain it's interesting

59:54

it's basically i think about

59:57

that endless take auto manufacturing if you have

59:59

a bunch i don't know tires

1:00:02

right the you stockpile the thousand or ten thousand

1:00:04

and four years and then you start putting them on the

1:00:06

production line you find an error a

1:00:09

mistake a defect what do you do if

1:00:11

you stockpile the thousand or ten thousand tires

1:00:14

you just keep quiet and you'd let them all go

1:00:16

through what you gonna do you can return them that

1:00:18

that one defect has been replicated

1:00:21

a thousand or ten thousand times ah

1:00:23

, so by keeping another we're seeing this is

1:00:25

keeping inventories low you don't want a lot

1:00:27

of work in process work and process as anything

1:00:30

that has like in in operation

1:00:32

in process that that is ongoing currently

1:00:35

currently and then apply miss the knowledge work it's interesting

1:00:37

we also want to keep working process well when

1:00:40

you're doing too many things the one for me this one for basically

1:00:42

management when you have twenty five projects

1:00:45

of once qualities going to suffer

1:00:47

assistance he is gonna suffer time is going to be wasted

1:00:49

cfc want to work on few things at once

1:00:52

yeah i guess working on ten things at once

1:00:54

rather than in a way one thing at a time this

1:00:57

did not a linear relationship between them

1:00:59

i have ten products that protects i

1:01:02

can do ten things were that didn't have the time in

1:01:04

the same and i added the some efficiency

1:01:06

that you lose out on by having

1:01:09

so many fit in progress we are fundamentally

1:01:11

i think just doing things one at a time little fun for

1:01:13

me not the sweet spot because a lot of my energy

1:01:15

level actually want a weapon the thing or f i can

1:01:17

be a bottleneck him thing x if

1:01:19

i focus on thing why the what was that effect

1:01:23

the thought about like justin and this idea

1:01:25

of just in time buses just in case for

1:01:27

the the how does that relate to i guess personal productivity

1:01:30

for us and off kind of work and personalized

1:01:33

yeah so i was he just in case is how we were kind of

1:01:35

educated which is you do everything wayne

1:01:38

advance you do it as perfectly

1:01:40

as possible as early as soon as possible

1:01:43

which is okay if you know what's gonna

1:01:45

happen if you're taking a class in school

1:01:48

you know i need a steady each lesson

1:01:50

each unit each paper each

1:01:52

it's reading assignments is important simply

1:01:54

because the professor said you know study this

1:01:57

but then you leave school and it's

1:01:59

and a radically higher level of uncertainty

1:02:02

you don't know right if you spend six

1:02:04

six months researching a topic that

1:02:07

topic may never come in handy you may never

1:02:10

need their skill you may never need that knowledge

1:02:12

so you have

1:02:14

to be much more dynamic and fast moving

1:02:17

and basically you can think of like just

1:02:19

in time learning learn something acquire

1:02:21

knowledge right when you need it use

1:02:24

it fast likely be talking

1:02:26

about get the results get the feedback

1:02:28

learn make another adoration do it again rather

1:02:30

than stockpiling and growing this

1:02:33

huge reserve of you know material

1:02:35

before you even start by the way quick break from

1:02:37

the podcast to mention my completely free five

1:02:39

day email crash course for create

1:02:42

her printers now printers creator printers

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is basically this portmanteau is think what is

1:02:46

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1:03:01

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1:03:03

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free if you want to fun of the five day email crash

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course than you can secure email other link in the video

1:03:16

description or description or show notes anyway let's get

1:03:18

back to the episode so the so book titled

1:03:20

building a second brain second proven method to organize

1:03:23

your digital life and unlock your creative

1:03:25

potential i'm i

1:03:27

didn't have the i have a thing that we probably should have addressed earlier

1:03:30

that like what the hell is a second brain and

1:03:32

why is it and why does it help

1:03:34

you organize your digital life unlock

1:03:36

your creative central yeah he

1:03:38

has he has question are a second brains

1:03:40

think of it the think of things you already

1:03:42

do though you might have a journal more

1:03:45

a diary imagine

1:03:48

if everything you wrote in the journal or diary

1:03:50

was saved forever was searched

1:03:52

for both the you can actually drive insights from it you could

1:03:54

go asked a question what have i thought about

1:03:56

money in the past when of i thought about personal growth

1:03:59

how have my it's been in the past where they

1:04:01

learn you could actually mine the insights from

1:04:03

that that's a journal or diaries now

1:04:05

imagine odd notes you took from books or

1:04:07

articles now imagine even practical

1:04:10

things a grocery lists are packing

1:04:12

list travel itineraries

1:04:14

okay now add bookmarks

1:04:17

for that you save from the wet now

1:04:19

add any kind of document they've created from

1:04:21

the past all these things are

1:04:23

things we largely already due to some capacity

1:04:25

but now imagine getting all of that material

1:04:28

which like we said his data all

1:04:30

of that stuff is just information a new

1:04:32

you save it is centralize

1:04:35

at all in one single central

1:04:37

place where you know we preserved

1:04:39

for ever you know you can always search for things

1:04:42

you know you can once it saved in

1:04:44

the same place or to link things together started

1:04:46

target start to organize it's what

1:04:48

would be the value what would be the you

1:04:50

know those would be the value of the

1:04:52

that aggregated some of all that material that's

1:04:55

your second brain authentic

1:04:57

would say that noel who what did the value

1:04:59

of up why do i care if my life shown

1:05:01

a bit isn't a bad thing if my private journalists in

1:05:03

one place for them or evil corporations at the forever

1:05:06

like , don't care about my shopping list yeah

1:05:08

books i've read a pretty picture never mind i

1:05:10

i read fifty shades of grey and it into getting things

1:05:12

done why does it matter if it's all in one place yeah

1:05:16

i would say i would things if you make anything

1:05:19

an artsy more of us are makers are

1:05:21

creators than you would think tried if you're writing

1:05:23

long emails if you're reading reports

1:05:25

memos analyses project plans

1:05:28

like most knowledge workers have some virtually

1:05:30

all knowledge workers has some kind of outputs

1:05:33

you can't just sit down and make something from scratch

1:05:35

or if you do a won't be very good

1:05:38

he will have a lot as kind as

1:05:40

interesting ideas to add to s you

1:05:42

need as a creative person some repositories

1:05:45

some store of he

1:05:48

is an insight to draw from or else you're going

1:05:50

to be doing that classic saying that we want avoid

1:05:52

which is looking at the blank page are looking at the back

1:05:54

blank screen rights and trying to come

1:05:56

up with an idea which is one of us the

1:05:58

worst experiences how's

1:06:00

the even broader than making things think about decisions

1:06:04

the decision is something that you in a sense create

1:06:06

race you take into account all this

1:06:08

information all these inputs what

1:06:11

your team thanks for your colleagues saying

1:06:13

how the economy's doing what people in

1:06:15

your industry say you are incorporating

1:06:17

all of those inputs into a decision

1:06:20

was it as something that you need to draw an existing

1:06:22

material or any kind of outcome like

1:06:25

it's it's difficult to to go out and and into

1:06:27

the world sort of naked in idea

1:06:29

terms and make things happen without

1:06:32

any research without any creative

1:06:34

raw material without any planning it's

1:06:37

it's just hard to do the

1:06:40

way that i kind of can you know where where people off

1:06:42

me out what the deal with the second briefing on like

1:06:45

it's basically a you know a

1:06:48

digital know taking system that

1:06:50

you can put anything into him and

1:06:52

that you can then use for the thing they actually

1:06:54

care about yeah so i think this is

1:06:56

very easy to give an example to if you're

1:06:58

for example a writer and it is this

1:07:00

idea of idea commonplace a commonplace is

1:07:03

a thing for i can the day

1:07:05

we are easily read a book or use of in

1:07:07

for his have an idea you write it down in the zone

1:07:09

but can and now if you have multiple

1:07:12

the that you've created through ten years of illness

1:07:14

anything to the thing about i

1:07:17

know how old are these insights have already gathered i've already

1:07:19

got the raw materials like taking notes and costs

1:07:21

you you if you have enjoyed going to say your

1:07:23

mining but notes you've taken in cloth doing the bill

1:07:25

a little bit of googling but most of the doing it from stuff people that

1:07:27

a cloth wider reading other advice maybe

1:07:30

a little note that sparked when you were in a lecture and

1:07:32

then your assembling usa based

1:07:35

on those raw materials yeah rather than

1:07:37

assembling your essay from the blank page attempting

1:07:39

to assemble your essays a google search where

1:07:41

you're just going to be a derailed by

1:07:44

se o content marketers who are writing

1:07:46

the most boring optimistically the ultra

1:07:48

content for that thing exactly so in a way

1:07:51

you're creating your own google yeah you're

1:07:53

on sort of external brain your second

1:07:55

brain that you can search for rather than things

1:07:57

yeah i guess that's that's that's easy enough to think about

1:08:00

like let let if you're a student any writing essays easier

1:08:02

if you're like a huge uber yahoo i

1:08:04

get to mind as for content ideas what

1:08:07

, like not than not obvious

1:08:10

things like that on what other use cases are

1:08:12

there for a second brain outside the scope of i'm a

1:08:14

greater yeah , greater a

1:08:16

little mundane things just

1:08:18

from people's everyday lives like i'll

1:08:21

give one very simple example simple driving

1:08:23

by the hardware store as

1:08:25

a parent it's

1:08:27

like i have to make use of every single minute

1:08:29

if i'm driving by the hardware store i

1:08:32

want to take advantage of that opportunity

1:08:34

opportunistically know is there

1:08:36

anything that i could just pop in pulling

1:08:38

right here pick it up from the hardware store which is across

1:08:41

town price rather than trying

1:08:43

to from my home set

1:08:45

aside all this time to go to the hardware store

1:08:47

hips so how so is your here's

1:08:49

the question how can i say within seconds

1:08:53

look at some resource some

1:08:55

place and know all the things

1:08:57

that i might want to pick up at the hardware store and

1:09:00

i did that the i actually had this as had kiss that

1:09:02

as a like that micro case study in the book i'll

1:09:04

in went into my notes went into

1:09:06

the project folder for the studio that we were

1:09:08

building when into one know the had

1:09:10

things to pick up at the hardware store i

1:09:12

wish i could have also done a search for and

1:09:15

then right there in the know i can to reorganize it

1:09:17

put some things with the top but some things in a section

1:09:19

of says don't worry about it for now and

1:09:21

that way it's like i can take advantage

1:09:23

of a spontaneous opportunity in my day

1:09:26

which is driving by the sorry restore to also pick

1:09:28

up those items which i would never be older member

1:09:30

re any would also be hard to sit there and the parking

1:09:32

lot and try to like make a new list and

1:09:34

try to remember all the things that we were

1:09:36

talking about two weeks ago they have to be your

1:09:40

, brain is is is of looting personality

1:09:42

from your own own to remember

1:09:45

things like three weeks from now when i happen

1:09:47

to be thing by one of the things that

1:09:49

need to grab yeah and so it's not just

1:09:51

like noticed that you're taking from lectures

1:09:53

at work from lectures see what books they read it's

1:09:55

also to do lists for projects that

1:09:57

you working on that the remodeling studio

1:10:00

let's say you're i dunno getting something installed in

1:10:02

your kitchen and who you're trying to make your bedroom took

1:10:04

a little bit nicer yeah the those are all

1:10:06

i guess protects us in a life

1:10:08

yeah i know unless you are used to thinking about the productivity know

1:10:11

it you might not think of them as projects i guess

1:10:13

you know install bookshelf in bedroom or

1:10:15

somehow a cable management on desktop need

1:10:18

for that while i need them cable ties and he's one of those like

1:10:20

plastic boxes to put into your i need

1:10:22

some kind of cleaning the implemented

1:10:24

keyboard committee will that fucking mess and

1:10:27

i'm not going to bother getting bother thing for analysis to committed

1:10:29

to do that such that next time next time to swing

1:10:31

by the hottest or pick up the things

1:10:34

and it becomes a sort of the most

1:10:36

part of my life that are gonna be idea exactly

1:10:39

yeah , think people sometimes they think

1:10:41

our second brain this is this advanced futuristic

1:10:44

technology it's gonna be this like you know

1:10:46

exoskeleton that's going to give me

1:10:48

new powers a new capabilities shirt

1:10:51

maybe eventually but instead think

1:10:53

about said of the top of your skill hierarchy

1:10:56

the bottom what is the stuff

1:10:58

that you're trying to memorize what is what

1:11:00

suffer you're trying to keep in mind

1:11:03

you know the little things are you trying to keep in mind

1:11:06

you know your the homework assignments or kid

1:11:08

has to complete this week they you're helping them

1:11:10

with are you trying to keep in mind

1:11:12

arm you know places you want to visit next time

1:11:14

you're in this country are you trying

1:11:16

to keep in mind the ideas from the

1:11:19

meeting with your boss last week are

1:11:21

you trying to keep in mind ideas that have come

1:11:23

up in a marketing meeting he probably don't even

1:11:25

realize it right his when we were never

1:11:27

taught oh i think you're trying to keep in mind don't

1:11:29

keep that in mind as sox were usually taught keep

1:11:31

this in mind remember this like even

1:11:34

even notice the things people say in

1:11:36

a little these little conversational moments they're like

1:11:38

oh can you can use to remind

1:11:40

me of this or keep this in mind or

1:11:43

bring this up next time i'm always like know

1:11:45

it's i can't i'm as a sickle

1:11:48

fragile human being a have to write it down

1:11:50

the what happens if is if you replace

1:11:53

them instead of adding new levels

1:11:55

of thinking replace the bottom levels

1:11:58

which then freeze up your time free the puritans freeze

1:12:00

up your energy which you can then dedicate

1:12:02

to the higher level yeah hello i think

1:12:04

of a lick of cigarettes my

1:12:08

brain in the last night was my brain to

1:12:10

remember anything it over and over the border me to

1:12:12

write down some of you and then i need to remember

1:12:14

where i've written it down and furthermore

1:12:16

the second later becomes and the more i know that

1:12:18

all of my thing we're going to folder yeah i think kind

1:12:20

of apple nothing's going to go notebook via the

1:12:23

more like the i'm to remember think that islamists me

1:12:25

exactly and i i started applying within

1:12:27

the were in the realm of people as well from

1:12:29

my have like a people folder in my opponent from where

1:12:32

i'm at a time i have a conversation with someone

1:12:34

and if i remember to do it on just quickly be like

1:12:37

hasn't , danny on the fifteenth of april

1:12:39

and may twenty two we don't have a x he thinking of leaving

1:12:41

america and you'll be america for for a month coming

1:12:43

back on that fourteen to make a

1:12:46

fine with and all but next time i figured done in

1:12:48

which might be two months later i look later another

1:12:51

oh yeah i know that america for like a mofo for a month i

1:12:53

will you tripped america done in and for off he remembered and

1:12:55

it's like were totally cool with writing on people's

1:12:57

birthdays he added like oh yeah i'm not going

1:13:00

around of them with birthday but birthday know it's important that important

1:13:02

remember the bus they so i can send them some think they're there

1:13:04

for me to write to write fear the

1:13:06

girl the funny thing about like the people

1:13:08

that we know that we want to

1:13:11

remember yeah we just don't trust our brain to

1:13:13

the like i don't know how you could as a whole bunch

1:13:15

of guys get it i know that you guys have kids and

1:13:17

maybe throw have another kid on the way as i i

1:13:19

have doesn't friends are in the pursuit getting married and have the upper

1:13:21

various stages of pregnancy how

1:13:24

, he practical that it's important for that individual

1:13:26

nations have yeah but no one would be on the

1:13:29

a is it for gump you have an address book can you

1:13:31

had can you down details on the something cute

1:13:33

about it yeah he put it in apps on the of what

1:13:35

am i go to be to systematically of i know

1:13:37

what is wrong with you your robot it's that we have

1:13:39

it's so funny i have a christmas notebook

1:13:42

christmas presents notebook every time i come

1:13:44

across an item that i think could make

1:13:46

a good gift i just take a clip take

1:13:48

a link take a know and put it in there said it

1:13:51

and then athena the year i just do a matching i just

1:13:53

get a list of everyone and he presents for open

1:13:55

up their notebook is it's things i haven't even

1:13:57

looked at you know all year long and then i just cook

1:13:59

a this one for this person the for for this person as

1:14:02

a result everyone thinks i'm like this incredibly

1:14:04

thoughtful gift giver i'm the worst

1:14:06

gift giver i can remember anything a camera

1:14:08

anniversaries birthdays nothing by

1:14:10

using i was since the offloaded at

1:14:13

the party my brain that would be constantly thinking

1:14:15

or stressing out athena the year osu

1:14:17

how i buy all these gifts and i'm just

1:14:19

giving their jobs in my second break what

1:14:22

about it the we've got days i'm kind of principles

1:14:25

and here we have a whole longer video on your

1:14:27

channel where people can watching bowling that the description

1:14:29

way you know i kind of breakdown in detail from

1:14:31

with screen shares with practical and i article

1:14:34

thing isn't and i got a whole lot of video on my

1:14:36

main channel where i kind of literally break down the ten

1:14:38

top principles him but i wonder if you can do a quick

1:14:40

whistle stop tour through the

1:14:42

, of the second brain and how people when

1:14:44

they might be able to find out more threats to to

1:14:47

so basically the book is really built

1:14:49

around for four pillars

1:14:51

which are the stages of the creative process i think the

1:14:54

creative process is the most important part

1:14:56

of people's productivity the says how do you

1:14:58

take inputs and process

1:15:00

them and some creative way and turn them into

1:15:02

helplessly we talked we ah

1:15:04

and what i really slow to do is say

1:15:07

everyone has special things everyone has exceptions

1:15:09

everyone has some unique things the what is what

1:15:12

is the part of the creative process it is timeless

1:15:14

like when go back to the ancient greeks we can

1:15:16

go back to roman times in go back to the renaissance

1:15:19

the enlightenment what are they doing

1:15:21

that we're still doing because

1:15:23

if i can find some things that's

1:15:26

likely that we're going to be keep doing as in the future

1:15:28

the the straight and

1:15:30

i boil that down it's it's amazing how long

1:15:32

as took ah into forceps

1:15:34

capture organized still and express

1:15:37

which underlies really all

1:15:40

kinds of work things have to be captured

1:15:42

they have to be recorded in some way shape or form

1:15:44

staff to be organized in some way

1:15:46

categorize classify groups that

1:15:49

to be distills have to decide what is the take

1:15:51

way what is the main point what is the main

1:15:53

message and then i think

1:15:55

the purpose of knowledge is to be shared his to

1:15:57

be expressed and so the last

1:16:00

stage and the the letters for that of cod

1:16:02

for code is express how

1:16:04

do you share it had you collaborate

1:16:07

with collaborate how do you apply is how do you put

1:16:09

into your own words how do you put it into

1:16:11

some form that has that positive

1:16:13

impact on you your family your

1:16:15

career your business okay

1:16:20

so this is kind of britain is not so capture

1:16:23

meaning how do i take insights and

1:16:25

like highlights and like notes on

1:16:27

shopping lists and anything from any aspect of

1:16:29

my life and just rooted in someone

1:16:31

he organized now that i've

1:16:33

written down somewhere where does it go

1:16:35

the as he gets filed away and my father for chemistry

1:16:37

one a or does it at all the way in my

1:16:40

bedroom remodel what does he get farther away than my

1:16:43

kids doctor's appointments folder yeah kind

1:16:45

of thing a half distill is that i guess

1:16:47

the next step of like for the things that i am the

1:16:49

are related to my creative outlet

1:16:51

to know whether it's a presentation for my work though as

1:16:53

much thought and whether it's a poster

1:16:56

for a find to the conference i'm working on or paper

1:16:58

for this gen permission

1:17:00

and i'm a doctor a scientist when there is a youtube

1:17:02

video on youtube or whether it's not as

1:17:04

gonna write a report last episode to them a pocket like whatever

1:17:07

the thing is how do you t i'm

1:17:10

the bit but you saved and figure out what are the best actually

1:17:13

matter and co the on a fatalist for the only

1:17:15

some of it matters and then expresses that sort

1:17:17

of the publishing the yes exactly like

1:17:19

has a brilliant summary think it is that

1:17:21

like river recreating what he said it's like a little bit worse

1:17:23

i'm a again i i i

1:17:25

see how this would very much apply

1:17:28

the realm of the help

1:17:32

help content creator because that's like

1:17:34

my damn i'm what other kind

1:17:36

of case , or use cases have

1:17:38

you seen of the sort of the code concept second

1:17:40

brandis brandis gosh so

1:17:42

many i mean people really

1:17:44

really come from all walks of life i've seen i've

1:17:48

you know others actually term hook books

1:17:51

a hook the hook of a song is song important

1:17:54

that they will just write down

1:17:56

either way like individual

1:17:58

words turns of phrase these little sentences

1:18:01

ah scenes from everyday life you know

1:18:03

i saw someone in red pants get

1:18:06

into a red tab or some just like little snapshots

1:18:09

so that when they go to write the song

1:18:11

right imagine account with the hook was a good hark

1:18:14

on my gosh like to give something really

1:18:16

smart and brilliant an original like

1:18:18

too much stress instead they just open up the hook books

1:18:21

and they and they even piece together few

1:18:23

of them or find some evocative

1:18:25

little snippets an awesome bill the whole song

1:18:27

on the hook ever , is a music

1:18:29

producer with talking about this he was like you know

1:18:31

a heard like i'm in love with the shape

1:18:34

of you yeah just like the thing or okay

1:18:36

we got it yes only successful because the fuck

1:18:38

is really good yeah and then everything else looks run the

1:18:40

song and they spent hours and hours and hours are the study

1:18:42

thing like what the hell it the hook vs as i guess similar

1:18:44

to like marketers website file or like artists

1:18:47

have like a i don't know i'm not bored or

1:18:49

an interior designer who keeps like saving think on pinterest

1:18:51

for inspiration yeah you're long i

1:18:53

have like a modern my instagram of like mins were

1:18:55

passing inspiration yeah so that when an

1:18:57

when i'm in a shop i can be like of

1:19:00

ethical thing let's go into let's go uniqlo

1:19:03

or something and yeah that particular jacket yeah i

1:19:06

guess is that kind of idea of capitalists and

1:19:08

what's interesting what that is everything as a hook this

1:19:11

is something is a amazing i've amazing i've

1:19:13

you know talking to my my other brother who's a

1:19:15

ballroom dancer would

1:19:17

seem to be very different from from you know creating

1:19:19

self help content but he he

1:19:22

showed me that when you're ballroom dancing

1:19:24

there's this thing you do with your hands it's like a

1:19:26

flourish you know you know you do

1:19:28

a turn and and you can reach out to the side ago

1:19:30

and got the like that with their hands him a told me

1:19:32

that the hook the way you can

1:19:34

just look at someone's hand and tell how good of a dancer

1:19:37

they are because that is would attract the attention

1:19:39

that is what completes the movement that

1:19:42

is what that is this like singular

1:19:44

moments that defines the quality

1:19:46

of the dance wicked building if

1:19:49

you just look at a building your i

1:19:51

go to certain it's it's not the you're looking

1:19:53

at the whole building equally it goes to the

1:19:55

crowning on the window it goes to the some

1:19:57

little detail it goes to some some

1:20:00

material so in any saying

1:20:03

there is some there is one part of it

1:20:05

that has more important and that's like the hook

1:20:07

and that's it that's a great example of hard

1:20:10

to come up with the things on demand hard to come up

1:20:12

with a brilliant hope it's is worth

1:20:14

just in your everyday this what i'm saying in your

1:20:16

everyday life don't make any extra

1:20:18

special effort just live

1:20:20

your your normal life but when

1:20:22

you come across those moments for a museum

1:20:24

you go to perusing a bookstore something

1:20:27

you hear on tv something you're on the radio

1:20:29

some in the happens you something you feel just

1:20:31

write that down and you will be amazed when use

1:20:34

after a week a month opener

1:20:36

thing up in you will realize you have a way

1:20:38

more interesting less than you realize

1:20:41

that

1:20:42

can we talk about this idea

1:20:44

of constraints he

1:20:47

said that would a couple of time and even before recording

1:20:49

you mentioned the idea of constraints like what

1:20:52

, does the how does that relate to this kind of stuff that we're talking

1:20:54

about yeah with see this is a super

1:20:57

interesting subject i think okay the

1:20:59

were would talk about this is is

1:21:01

makes noise were so difficult one

1:21:04

of the things is that there's no constraints there's no

1:21:06

limits you know how much data

1:21:08

can you download and essentially infinite

1:21:11

you know how many how

1:21:14

many sources of information do have essentially

1:21:16

incident since then on the opposite side

1:21:18

how many different ways can use an idea incident

1:21:20

at how many different kinds of projects keepers

1:21:23

see how many different kinds of goals could you house

1:21:25

says it's not that you can do at all but

1:21:27

the optionality is so great

1:21:29

it's it's overwhelming as humans we were not designed

1:21:32

to house such a vast

1:21:34

optionality rights be able to date

1:21:36

anyone in your city be able to eat any

1:21:38

kind of cuisine from the entire world be

1:21:41

able to you know read any story

1:21:43

from any corner of the world it's it's actually

1:21:45

maddening to have that many options and

1:21:48

so i think a lot of what my book is doing

1:21:50

is creating

1:21:52

constraints around all work it

1:21:54

is actually raining in

1:21:57

that optionality the vast amount of option

1:21:59

so many code red school is

1:22:01

saying okay right now just capture

1:22:04

like a rule there's a limit to it just

1:22:06

right the thing down don't worry about anything else then

1:22:08

and a supper time just organise right like you're

1:22:10

trading me is very discreet stage

1:22:13

is set of trying to do all the activities all

1:22:15

the time they are designated

1:22:17

times to do different kinds of thinking and

1:22:20

if a common thing with rising of ah it's like research

1:22:22

in with them and then the first dropped a

1:22:24

step in and

1:22:28

, things things need to

1:22:30

be a different kind of break space he has you the thing

1:22:33

even if you try and do all the things that once and nothing ever

1:22:35

gets ever yeah i think this is one of

1:22:37

the key things that i learnt from eating

1:22:39

fruit from your corson and your blog dollar

1:22:41

then uploaded to youtube channel of like actually

1:22:44

you know idea generation is

1:22:46

a thing that happens thing time in a

1:22:48

in one sitting then coming up with like

1:22:51

title and thumbnail is a very different skill

1:22:53

to coming up with the structure of the video which

1:22:55

is a very different guilt thing until mean that area which is rare way

1:22:57

different skill to signal different the video and

1:22:59

back in the day while on duty things all at once or

1:23:02

one after the other and from one time

1:23:04

a would feel quite overwhelming whereas

1:23:07

when quite think about like aga three minutes in between

1:23:09

patients at work come up

1:23:11

with people appoint someone if it if we had on or

1:23:13

levy to generate five more video ideas or

1:23:16

whatever that thing might be for the people how

1:23:19

i guess you can could be more productive

1:23:22

he used time more intentionally

1:23:24

here whereas otherwise but i wouldn't and and

1:23:26

and are doing is going on instagram yeah i'm so glad

1:23:28

i spend those like

1:23:29

three to five met blocks here and there

1:23:32

the doing stuff that

1:23:34

contributed to the thing i genuine he cared about i eat

1:23:36

make youtube videos and right in front of nebulous

1:23:38

business yeah rather than amos he's going for instagram

1:23:41

the i have no idea was called through and

1:23:43

have that has added there about is my life of rural i

1:23:46

think that's think that's a good observation yeah

1:23:49

you're you're you're making use it you're able

1:23:51

to make use a smaller amounts of time because

1:23:53

you're not trying to reinvent

1:23:57

in the we'll hear you know you have three

1:23:59

to five minutes what can you the two to five minutes i

1:24:01

was you think can i make one note a

1:24:04

note can be one sentence one

1:24:06

bullet point that , likely to

1:24:08

have future value i can i can do and

1:24:10

thirty seconds or you can be one quote

1:24:13

one idea and has even do like just

1:24:15

the title of know can i think and and

1:24:17

even i can think of the content i'm too tired i'll

1:24:19

have time to can even think of the title of a know

1:24:22

that when my future self sees that will spark ideas

1:24:24

to then fill in the content the body of the know it's

1:24:27

really amazing once you scale it down that's

1:24:30

scale it and also have a place

1:24:32

to save if you have confidence

1:24:34

six when you hit save that notice going to

1:24:36

be say somewhere that you can then revisit it then you're in

1:24:38

it's not going to be worth the trouble i ,

1:24:40

i think that's that's a big part of it yeah to get

1:24:42

this reminds me of how like it's pretty

1:24:44

common advice or basically any

1:24:46

kind of creative at least two always have

1:24:49

a notebook with you and your movement prefer be one of our than

1:24:51

of offensive line as it's gonna be found

1:24:54

because so that when you come across something interesting or something

1:24:56

inspirational if you have a thing that you can just you

1:24:58

thing in your pocket to write down and given that most

1:25:00

of us don't care enough a claymore but we'll with our our

1:25:02

phones with us the with guess the second

1:25:04

rate of basically rate sort

1:25:07

of pocket notebook but on steroids exact

1:25:09

that anything can go into it and you know it's gonna be

1:25:11

coming it's gonna come coming handy at some point for that unlike

1:25:13

exactly yeah yeah we have our phone more

1:25:15

than any any notebook you could ever house

1:25:18

even if you don't have your phone if you have a tablet

1:25:20

if you can find a computer log

1:25:23

into your account they are your apple watch

1:25:25

or you know soon there's gonna be smart glasses

1:25:27

and air pause and all these things i it's

1:25:29

it's just exactly what you said it's that

1:25:31

creative notebook that is so obviously

1:25:33

useful i mean just look at it you use it all

1:25:35

the time except in digital form that's what we're doing

1:25:39

the people of of me of like how did you manage

1:25:41

to do all the thing how did you do you to tell a stop

1:25:43

on working fulltime i have full time job like lettuce or

1:25:45

article i can't make time for my thing i

1:25:48

think those like i mean mean

1:25:50

make it fun and like make him make the process

1:25:52

of the thing doing the thing itself so energizing that makes

1:25:54

you want to do it in the evening for the weekends or whatever but

1:25:57

also like no one's annually worked for like eight

1:25:59

to ten twelve hours they did always moment of downtime

1:26:01

the even in the most demanding jobs even

1:26:03

in a even what he medicine weather's like receivers

1:26:06

even busy day there's always that the little bit

1:26:08

on time for lunch little bit of time on the toilet were

1:26:10

if i wanted to i could spend the sky bet dislike

1:26:13

doing something a contribution towards the protect

1:26:15

that i really care about via the

1:26:18

the crew sitting in areas like figure out was one of the things

1:26:20

you care about what are the project for the gold you working

1:26:22

on movement and find ways to quit be more productive

1:26:25

me you your time were intentionally and

1:26:27

get the things hopefully

1:26:29

or is contributing to your meaningful and

1:26:31

fulfilling lives

1:26:32

connoisseur better myself i'll have it set

1:26:35

of the greatest and the conversations how to thank you so much for coming

1:26:37

down we will link to all of the things the

1:26:39

book your blog your you tube channel

1:26:42

fourthly your podcast when basically it's like show

1:26:44

at certain them rival the concept the buildings like a brain

1:26:46

are willing to the courses well if i want to take as a typical

1:26:49

three years ago now to i had my life i was

1:26:51

a mentor the horses mouth and will also link

1:26:53

over here somewhere do the

1:26:55

youtube video that your and i are doing and

1:26:57

i will also have a summary of this book available on

1:26:59

my main channel ah and the by that when

1:27:01

you're watching this a aneurysm a glistening about and we're

1:27:03

getting think of coming on how to thank you so much

1:27:06

right to that's if it if we have had a deep dive thank

1:27:08

you so much for watching or listening all the length and resources

1:27:10

that we mentioned input costs i can be linked down in the video

1:27:12

description or in the shown us depending on where you're watching

1:27:14

or listening to this if you listen to this on a podcast platform

1:27:16

than do please leave a review on the i ching story

1:27:19

really helps other people discover the podcast or if you're

1:27:21

watching this in full hd of okay on you tube

1:27:23

and you can leave a comment below and ask any questions or an

1:27:25

insight or any thoughts about the episode that be

1:27:27

awesome for yeah thank you very much for the thing i'll catch you hopefully

1:27:29

in the next episode