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Nine.

1:02

twelve, ten,

1:05

twenty eight, two,

1:09

twenty three.

1:12

This is deep state radio.

1:15

coming

1:15

to you direct from our Super Secret

1:18

Studio in the third sub basement

1:20

of the Ministry of Snark in Washington

1:23

DC. And from other undisclosed

1:25

locations across America

1:28

and around the world.

1:30

Hello,

1:30

everybody. This is Simon Rosenberg.

1:32

I'm filling in for David Roth off today

1:34

as hard as something like that may be.

1:37

I'm gonna give it my best. We

1:39

have a a great show today

1:41

with Eric Swalwell from California

1:44

who, to me, is one of the true bright

1:47

lights of this rising generation that

1:49

we're gonna be talking about so much more

1:51

now that we've begun to see the generational

1:54

wheel in

1:54

the Democratic Party turn.

1:56

as we've seen over the last few weeks.

1:59

Congress

1:59

welcome. Thank you for being with us today.

2:01

And hope

2:02

David gets better. I know.

2:05

I I had what he has, and it and it

2:07

was rough. And today is my first day among

2:09

the living. And so I I wish

2:11

him well. I had a few tough days

2:13

that hit our whole house. It was not COVID, but it was

2:15

something that felt an awful lot like it.

2:17

And so, yes, they got fingers

2:20

crossed for David. And

2:21

and So,

2:22

congressman, this is an historic

2:24

week.

2:25

Nancy Pelosi speaker Pelosi

2:27

has, along

2:28

with congressman Clyburn and congressman

2:30

Hoyer,

2:31

orchestrated what was really truly a graceful

2:34

and remarkable transfer

2:36

of power among

2:37

the House Democrats. And we've now

2:39

seen a new leadership team

2:41

led by congressman Jefferies and

2:43

congressman

2:43

Clark taking

2:45

over in the last few days.

2:47

It's a big moment for you. I mean, you've been

2:49

in Congress for a few years now. Give

2:51

us some thoughts. I mean, how's it going? What

2:54

what are your hopes, your aspirations? Do

2:56

you miss Nancy already? I mean, how how

2:58

do things feel from inside at all?

3:01

Yes,

3:01

Simon. It's exciting to see two

3:03

classmates of mine, the class of twenty twelve,

3:05

and Hopkins Jefferies, and Katherine

3:08

Clark, you know, take shape as

3:10

as new leaders for the

3:12

Congress in the new direction. But

3:14

it's a testament to Nancy Pelosi that

3:17

there was not a contested battle

3:19

for who the

3:21

next generation of leaders would be. Actually,

3:23

very unwritten has

3:25

been that

3:26

for

3:28

many years as long as I've been in the house,

3:30

the speaker has really developed

3:33

and mentored a number of

3:35

our colleagues to be ready to

3:37

lead. And

3:39

her approach has always been,

3:41

if you show the initiative, you

3:43

know, she'll show you the way and she'll give you the

3:45

form to be a leader. And, you

3:47

know, hot team certainly has demonstrated that,

3:50

you know, as the caucus chair, as

3:52

a impeachment manager, as a member of the

3:54

judiciary committee, as a leader in the black office.

3:57

And Katherine also in her own right is a,

3:59

you know, former

3:59

prosecutor,

4:01

assistant speaker, you know, a former

4:03

vice chair So she's

4:06

they're very capable, energetic,

4:09

and there's just a change in the air.

4:12

in the pockets. And we

4:14

recognize that, you know, we are riding this

4:17

momentum coming out of the midterms where, yes,

4:19

the gavels will change hands in the

4:21

house, but it's a very narrow margin. We were not

4:23

blown out in the way that we were told

4:25

by the forecasters and the pundits, everyone,

4:27

but you, it seemed Simon

4:29

And and now, you know, we have the

4:31

democracy is on life support. You

4:33

know, it was given a a reprieve, so to

4:35

speak, this midterm election.

4:38

But we know what the Republicans and the majority,

4:40

and if they're gonna try and scandalize Joe

4:43

Biden, they're gonna focus entirely on

4:45

going after and destroying the Biden

4:47

family. And they're gonna form the largest

4:50

law firm in Washington DC with

4:52

just one client. Donald Trump, and then they're

4:54

gonna litigate all of his grievances through

4:56

the judiciary committee where I sit.

4:58

And that's where, you know, I I think we are

5:00

going to have to, you know,

5:02

really stand in the breach?

5:04

I'm fascinated by the way you've

5:06

described all this because it seems

5:08

like This is the third consecutive

5:11

disappointing election for the

5:13

Republicans under MAGA.

5:15

There this election, it really feels

5:18

like this was a state of course election,

5:20

a rejection of

5:21

extremism, very few incumbents

5:24

lost anywhere in

5:25

the country. And

5:26

it's almost as if the most powerful

5:28

signal the country could have given the

5:30

Republican party was that they wanted them

5:32

to move away and abandon MAGA

5:34

And

5:34

what you're saying is you feel they're gonna double and

5:37

triple down on it, and that they're so

5:39

enthralled by this extremism that they can't

5:41

help themselves. anymore.

5:42

Do you think there's gonna be really any

5:44

break

5:45

whatsoever? Is there any consciousness on

5:47

their end that they're already among

5:49

most popular people to ever take over the

5:51

Congress and the history of the country, and that they're

5:53

just gonna damage torpedoes and go ahead

5:55

without making any kind of olive branch to

5:57

credit

5:57

govern effectively or win over

5:59

voters that may be, you know, struggling to

6:02

stay with the Republicans now. That's

6:03

a great point, Simon, because, you know, the

6:06

the facade that they put

6:08

up during the election was that they

6:10

were running to address gas

6:12

and groceries, and they wanted to, you

6:14

know, take on crime in

6:16

our cities. And they've shown in

6:18

in just the last couple

6:20

weeks after the midterm election.

6:22

that they're gonna focus on hundred bytes and and and

6:25

the press conferences they've held has

6:27

made that absolutely clear.

6:29

And so I think we have to, you know,

6:31

responsibly Well, first, we have to defend

6:33

and punch back twice as hard in

6:35

our own defense and the defense, the president.

6:38

But also, we're gonna have to do the

6:40

work on gas and groceries and

6:42

keeping the government open and

6:44

extend, you know, paying our bills through the debt

6:46

ceiling and funding the effort

6:48

in Ukraine. And and yes,

6:50

watch them as they,

6:52

you know, quadrupled down, so

6:54

to speak, on Trumpism. And

6:57

I would think that, you know, in a democracy

6:59

you could be a cult leader. But

7:01

if you were to lose three elections

7:04

in a row, the house in eighteen,

7:06

the White House in the Senate in

7:08

twenty and not pick up

7:10

the senate when you're supposed to and not have the

7:12

red wave in the house when you're supposed to, that

7:14

that would be enough to defeat Trumpism, but

7:16

they're gonna prove I I think that they

7:18

can't quit Trumpism. And, you

7:20

know, what we're going to have to do is to continue

7:22

to put forward. I think this frame of, we

7:24

can have competency or we

7:26

can have chaos. You know, when it comes to

7:28

choosing our leaders, we can have voting, or

7:30

we can have violence, and and show

7:32

where they stand on those

7:34

frames and where we will lead?

7:37

It's a really important point is that,

7:39

you know, not only did we are we likely

7:41

to now pick up a seat in the senate

7:43

and

7:44

have the house essentially be a jump

7:46

ball. I mean, you know how these races work. I

7:48

mean, a handful of votes and a few

7:51

states in in few districts, we would have

7:53

been in the majority. So essentially, it was an

7:55

even election

7:56

in the house. You know,

7:57

we actually picked up five state legislative

7:59

chambers I mean, this

8:01

was by any historic measure,

8:03

a remarkable election for us.

8:05

And

8:05

the way I like to talk about a congressman is that

8:07

there were really two elections. There was a

8:09

bluer election inside the battleground

8:12

and a

8:12

bunch of blue states and a redder election

8:14

outside the battleground. And this

8:16

gets to the the next point that

8:18

I would like to talk to you about, as you

8:20

say a new day

8:21

is emerging, it

8:22

seems to me that one of the greatest challenges

8:24

we have is to In this

8:26

election, where

8:27

we had our heavily funded campaigns,

8:29

you know, our all the money that our grassroots

8:32

people were able to fund into our campaigns, we were

8:34

able to control the information by a

8:36

minute. But as you

8:36

know every day, they

8:38

are louder than we are. They're in

8:41

Fox News and the infrastructure they

8:43

have, they're

8:43

able to, you know, set the disc the daily

8:46

discourse and the talking points for the country,

8:48

even things

8:48

as ridiculous as fentanyl and Halloween

8:51

candy, right, that they made into a story

8:53

for a month

8:53

or so. How are

8:55

your at litter box?

8:57

cat

8:57

litter boxes. I mean, we're we're all aware now

8:59

that the noisiness of their side

9:02

is distorting and and they have

9:04

far more control over the daily discourse

9:06

than they should. how

9:07

do you think Hakim's team?

9:10

And the

9:10

newer, younger people who have or closer to

9:12

this digital age, you're a

9:14

digital entrepreneur yourself in the way that

9:16

you communicate, how do you think

9:18

we're gonna see a strat a change in

9:20

communication strategy

9:22

for

9:22

the house. If we're not legislating

9:25

as much, does that give you

9:27

more time to re to use this

9:29

platform you have? to to

9:31

fight out in the national discourse. I mean,

9:33

how are you thinking about this? How do you think

9:35

the house is gonna feel different? Do you think

9:37

Akeem

9:37

is committed to really

9:40

do more to counter the

9:42

national the the right wing noise

9:44

machine in the day to day given what you're talking

9:46

about, given that there

9:47

won't be as much traditional legislation, right,

9:49

passing. So just

9:50

interested in your thoughts about that.

9:53

Yeah. Well, I think that before Kevin

9:55

McCarthy even becomes speaker, you know, we need to

9:57

cast this, you know, for what it is, which is

9:59

a corrupt

9:59

bargain

10:00

in that you has struck

10:02

a drug deal with the most extreme

10:05

members in his caucus,

10:07

people who embrace, you know, Nick

10:09

Fuentes and you know, the pro

10:12

Nazi, pro Hitler approach

10:14

in Simonette. As we as we sit

10:16

here and talk, I'm getting updates

10:18

on my phone, about what Kanye

10:20

West and Alex Jones are talking

10:22

about in a conversation right now where

10:24

they're praising Hitler. And remember,

10:26

Jim Jordan tweeted out

10:28

Kanye Elon Trump. Kanye

10:31

period, Elon period, Trump period, these

10:33

are the people that they hold up. And so

10:35

if they are going to be, you know, quote

10:37

unquote, attackers going out to the Biden

10:39

administration. We need to make sure

10:41

that Americans know

10:43

just exactly, you know, who Jim

10:45

Jordan is who Jim Jordan

10:47

respects and really put his

10:49

credibility out there

10:51

or lack of credibility out there. So I'm

10:53

gonna be a part of that effort on the

10:55

judiciary committee. There's a lot of

10:57

talent on that committee. I I think it's

10:59

shown itself through

11:02

multiple impeachments that it is up

11:04

for this. But first and foremost,

11:06

if McCarty becomes speaker, we need

11:08

to make sure people know a corrupt bargain

11:11

was struck to do that.

11:13

And then once, you know, Marjorie

11:15

Taylor Green and comer

11:17

and and Jordan and and others go

11:19

on the attack that before they're

11:21

able to even host their

11:23

first hearing, that the American

11:25

people have, that they're fully

11:27

aware of, you know, who these individuals

11:30

are before any weight

11:32

of credibility it's given to them.

11:34

And so that's what I'm gonna do, and I know there's

11:36

a lot of efforts out there to make sure

11:38

that's the case. But we're not going

11:40

to we cannot get, you know, Ben

11:42

Gosied here and see a rerun,

11:44

you know, the same play that,

11:46

you know, weakened secretary

11:48

Clinton in twenty sixteen. And

11:50

just a reminder

11:51

to our audience that David Rothkoff

11:53

our normal host is a home ill

11:55

today and Tara

11:56

McGowan who's one of our co hosts and

11:58

my dear friend

12:00

unfortunately had technical issues. And so

12:02

just me and the

12:03

congressman spending time with you today, but

12:06

thank you, Congress. given

12:07

how busy this week is. You know, one of

12:09

the reflections I have about this election

12:12

is

12:12

that, you know, I've been doing this full time now

12:14

for thirty years. I joined the Clinton campaign

12:17

in early late nineteen ninety one,

12:19

early ninety two, and I've been working

12:21

full time. And I I really

12:23

think that when you look around at the party

12:25

now, not

12:26

only did we show incredible tactical

12:29

strength in this election by

12:30

withstanding the red wave and beating,

12:33

actually making gains in the battleground. We

12:35

didn't just was stay on the red wave. We actually

12:37

made gains in Pennsylvania

12:39

and Arizona and in Georgia and

12:41

Michigan among the most important

12:43

in Ohio. Right? I mean, among the most

12:45

important states in the country. So

12:47

and we flipped these state legislative chambers.

12:49

But when

12:50

I look around at

12:51

the party in addition to tactically

12:54

being successful and look at

12:55

the leaders that are coming, you know, that at some point

12:57

over the next five years or so,

13:00

Speaker Pelosi is gonna cede to

13:02

Nancy and Joe Biden and Bernie

13:04

Sanders, and others

13:05

will be giving way to

13:08

this next Democratic

13:08

Party. And when I look at Gavin

13:10

Newsom

13:11

and Jared Polis and Gretchen Whitmer

13:13

and many of

13:14

your colleagues who've now survived to

13:17

incredibly

13:17

difficult elections in a row

13:19

and Cortez Masto and Alex

13:21

Padilla. You know, I

13:22

really believe that what I'm looking at

13:25

is the strongest and best

13:27

Democratic

13:27

party since I've been in this business

13:29

over the last thirty years. And it's

13:31

why

13:31

what I I think that the elegant

13:34

transfer

13:34

from Nancy

13:36

to Hakim and the team was just so

13:38

symbolically important for us, is

13:40

that

13:40

this is the beginning of

13:42

a multi year long process of of

13:44

a new generation rising and taking

13:46

the reins of the Democratic Party that will be

13:48

happening. It's arguably the most important thing

13:50

that's gonna happen to us over the next

13:52

five

13:52

years or so, you're one in my

13:54

mind, you're one of those people

13:56

that

13:56

give me so much confidence. And I

13:59

just wonder how does

14:00

it feel right now? Right? I mean, in

14:02

terms of you look around, you've been doing

14:04

this, you've been fighting this out for a decade, we've

14:06

been ups and downs, you were in it

14:08

before, even then, right? But, I mean,

14:10

does it feel strong? I mean,

14:12

the line I had in my memo yesterday that I

14:14

released was the Democratic Party

14:16

is strong. we

14:18

didn't feel that way six months ago.

14:20

I

14:20

think we I feel that way now. I

14:22

mean, what are your what are your thoughts about that

14:24

comment?

14:26

it's exciting to see

14:28

now as this new generation takes shape

14:30

that that there's going to be

14:32

an audio for so many of these generational issues.

14:34

Where, frankly, there there is overwhelming

14:38

cohesion among

14:40

Americans on what we need to do ending

14:43

gun violence and making sure that, you know, our kids

14:45

don't have to live in fear, overwhelmingly

14:47

the American people support that and

14:49

you have, you know, now, you know, in the leadership,

14:51

you know, three people in

14:54

Khakim and Katherine and

14:56

and Pete, who have

14:59

relatively younger children who

15:01

have come up in this

15:03

culture of gun violence. And so they're going I

15:05

think it's uniquely personal

15:07

to them. And and so many of us in

15:09

Congress now as it as it has become younger and

15:11

younger, I have a five year old, a

15:13

four year old and a one year

15:15

old and feel a real responsibility to

15:17

make sure that they don't go into

15:19

an environment at their schools where

15:21

they're still when they're graduating, you know, from

15:23

high school, doing mass shooter drills. So

15:25

then it's very personal. And

15:27

I I think having younger leaders

15:29

that are connected to that makes it

15:31

even more likely that you'll see

15:34

bold action on it, student

15:36

loan debt. When I came into the

15:38

house, overwhelmingly the majority of

15:40

my colleagues on both sides

15:43

were millionaires before they were

15:45

elected to congress did not have

15:47

student loan debt themselves or kids did not

15:49

have student loan debt. Well, you have

15:51

dozens of colleagues now of mine, especially

15:53

on the Democratic side, who still

15:55

have student loan debt. I I still have about

15:57

eighty thousand dollars that I'm

15:59

paying off. And so when when it's that

16:01

personal to you, you understand what

16:03

it means to other Americans.

16:05

And it it gives you a better shot, I think, of, you

16:07

know, prioritizing it as an

16:09

issue. And then with climate

16:11

our kids are of

16:13

a generation that is

16:15

very pessimistic about

16:17

whether this earth

16:18

is even gonna be sustainable, you know,

16:21

for their own children to live on. And

16:23

when I was running for president, I heard so

16:25

many high schoolers tell me

16:26

that they didn't think that they

16:28

would start families themselves because they

16:30

didn't want to give birth to a generation

16:33

that would see the worst effects of

16:35

climate. And then that's so awful to

16:37

hear. But when you have leaders in the house who

16:39

are, you know, through their own kids

16:41

connected to these issues, I I think

16:43

it gives you even more of an

16:45

incentive and a reason to take them on. So

16:47

that's that's something that is going to be,

16:49

you know, very different with this new

16:51

leadership and and something that I'm really

16:53

excited about. But Simon, it

16:55

was generation z in

16:57

women who delivered this election for

16:59

us. And and that's why you were

17:02

writing off all of the forecasters in the

17:04

polls because you you you sensed the

17:06

energy that was out there, but you also saw the

17:08

data of, you know, the participation

17:10

rates among those groups. And I think the

17:12

best thing we can do is to give

17:14

those, you know, individuals

17:17

agency and make sure that they

17:19

know that they're empowered because they showed up and

17:21

and if they stay engaged on the

17:23

issues they care about, making sure that we

17:25

put in place a woman's right, you know,

17:27

to make her own healthcare decisions, you know, in

17:29

the law, the second that we're able to. If we

17:32

give them that agency, they're gonna stay

17:34

engaged all the way to the twenty four

17:36

election when we're really, really going to deepen.

17:38

If you're like me, you're probably

17:40

a bit frustrated with the state of our

17:42

political system today. So

17:45

why does American democracy look the

17:47

way it does? And how can we

17:49

make it more responsive to

17:51

the people it was formed to serve?

17:55

democracy decoded is a

17:57

podcast by the campaign legal

17:59

center. It

17:59

examines our government and

18:02

discusses innovative ideas that

18:04

could lead to a stronger, more

18:07

transparent, accountable and

18:09

inclusive democracy. In

18:11

season two, hosts

18:13

Simone Leoper covers

18:15

everything you need to know about

18:17

voting in the United She

18:19

speaks with experts from across the country and

18:22

voters representing impacted

18:24

communities about the

18:26

deliberate barriers to voting. that

18:28

exists today. She asked how can we make

18:30

our voting system more inclusive? Because

18:33

our democracy works

18:35

best when every voter

18:37

can participate. Listen

18:39

to the latest season

18:42

at democracydecoded dot

18:45

org or wherever you get your

18:48

podcasts? You

18:49

ran a caucus in the

18:51

house that is geared towards younger members,

18:54

right, and younger politics.

18:55

And I do think that one

18:57

of the things that you and I have discussed and the

18:59

times that we've been together

19:02

is

19:02

how critical it is that Democrats figure out how to

19:04

make younger Americans at the very center of

19:06

their politics and not at the periphery.

19:09

which it

19:10

often is. I will give the Biden team

19:12

a lot of credit this year.

19:13

I think in the last six

19:16

months,

19:16

they really moved aggressively on

19:18

things that really, really mattered

19:20

to

19:20

young Americans. And I think they created

19:23

an

19:23

ability even despite his age.

19:26

was able to build a politics that

19:28

spoke to the concerns

19:29

of young people, and it was gun

19:31

the gun first gun violence legislation

19:34

We've passed in thirty gun safety legislation, we passed

19:36

in thirty years. The historic climate

19:38

legislation, the cannabis bill,

19:40

the student loan, efforts.

19:42

This was

19:42

a major effort by the

19:45

administration to speak

19:46

to young people in a way to engage them

19:48

in the future of their

19:50

country That

19:50

wasn't it's not just about how it turned out in the elections, but

19:53

it's it's about what really matters

19:55

to a rising generation of

19:57

people. We should

19:57

be putting those concerns

20:00

at

20:00

the very center of our politics. And I I do

20:02

feel

20:02

congressmen in a funny way that this

20:04

election

20:04

was a tipping point for

20:07

that. I do

20:07

feel that, you know, for you who fought so hard

20:09

to get these issues into the mainstream,

20:12

I think

20:12

they're there now forever. I mean, I

20:14

think we're gonna be talking

20:16

about this climate, this historic climate initiative,

20:18

you know, Bill, that you helped pass,

20:20

you know, for the

20:21

next twenty, thirty years. These things are now at

20:23

the very center of

20:24

our politics. And it's gonna make

20:26

those

20:26

of us who care about engaging young people. I

20:29

think we have far more tools to

20:31

do it before. And of course, we have this

20:33

very big new one. which

20:34

is the of abortion. Like,

20:36

which is

20:36

very, very important for people of childbearing

20:39

age younger Americans and

20:41

is

20:41

not something that even if you live in a state

20:43

where things are protected, you know

20:44

that you have fellow brothers and sisters

20:47

across the country who

20:48

may not be, and

20:49

that we've got work to do

20:51

here. I have a a

20:51

youth council that

20:54

advises me it's high

20:56

schoolers and that should be

20:58

about sixteen to h

21:00

twenty. recently, I I was with them

21:02

in in the middle of our meeting.

21:04

All of their be

21:06

real alerts went off and

21:09

you know, that that's a new app, social media

21:12

app where when you get your

21:14

alert and it changes every

21:16

day, you have to be real. So you have to within,

21:18

like, minute and a half, take a picture of where

21:20

you are, and it uses both

21:22

both cameras, the one that faces you and

21:24

the one that faces outward.

21:26

and then you show your friends what you're doing.

21:29

And I I think to that generation,

21:31

that's exactly what they want from

21:34

their leaders. is for us to be real. And so it's no

21:36

it's no mistake that that's one of the most

21:38

popular apps right now among young people. And

21:40

so I I think that's as

21:42

we lead as we go forward and

21:44

as we engage that generation, I think

21:46

we'd have to be real with

21:48

them. We have to let our cards down a little

21:50

bit. We don't have to be so

21:52

scripted and manufactured. And I

21:54

think that really resonates

21:56

with them. And so to

21:58

my colleagues, I tell them, you know, be

22:01

real, be accessible and be bold

22:04

because all of these solutions, gun violence,

22:06

climate, women's reproductive

22:09

rights, they're going to

22:11

require boldness, you know, to

22:13

to solve what is a willingness in

22:15

in all of those rounds. And so

22:17

that's kind of how I'm approaching this is, you

22:20

know, be real, be accessible,

22:22

be bold, and we can

22:24

be better for this generation.

22:27

That

22:27

was terrific. I I have a seventeen

22:29

year old, a twenty year old, and twenty two year

22:31

old, and, you know,

22:32

their BS detectors are way

22:34

beyond anything that we knew when we were

22:36

younger, and they're

22:38

aware of manipulation. They're much more self

22:40

they're much more aware of

22:42

the games that go on in

22:44

this media environment. And so they have it's a I

22:46

know I can't put anything past my seventeen

22:48

year old daughter. She's got the biggest BS

22:51

detector of anyone I've ever Matt,

22:53

I think. So changing

22:54

gears is a little bit in the spirit of David.

22:56

Talk

22:57

about Ukraine and how you

23:00

see

23:00

Congress. I mean, the Republicans have expressed some

23:03

doubt

23:03

about continuing the blank

23:06

check as was the phrase Kevin

23:08

McCarthy used. I mean, what's your sense?

23:10

We're in the middle of winter here. Thankfully,

23:12

gas prices are coming down here and

23:14

around the world, alleviating some of

23:16

the pressure on Europe, some of the energy

23:18

surges that we saw. What's your

23:19

sense about how things are going? Congress

23:22

is gonna play this?

23:23

Are you proud of Joe Biden's

23:26

leadership? in mobilizing this coalition

23:28

to take on Putin.

23:29

This certainly seems to be one of

23:31

the most

23:32

important things that government

23:34

has to do over the next couple of years.

23:36

What are your thoughts

23:37

about how it's going?

23:39

Ukraine has Russia on

23:41

its heels and its

23:44

future will be a day

23:46

where they will

23:47

push out all of Russia's

23:50

forces that threaten their

23:52

territorial integrity their way of

23:54

life and innocent, you know, human

23:56

life that's been lost and could be

23:58

lost in this campaign. And the

23:59

only threat to the progress

24:02

that Ukraine is making is a Republican

24:05

majority in the House of Representatives. And

24:07

and so I went over

24:09

couple weeks ago to Keith

24:12

not to see president Zelensky.

24:15

And look, he is focused.

24:17

He's determined the people in that

24:19

country have sacrificed.

24:21

They're willing to fight. They're willing to

24:23

weather a cold cold winter

24:26

without heat and and

24:29

electricity, but they need us to be with

24:31

them. And they need us

24:33

to recognize as president Biden

24:35

has and it's that Congress so

24:37

far has that their fight for

24:39

freedom is our fight for freedom.

24:41

And and if their line

24:44

falls, then that fight will come

24:46

to us. at our front door. And

24:48

so president Biden has

24:50

stitched together, you know, the most powerful

24:53

international alliance since World War

24:55

to push back against Russia's aggression. It

24:57

not only has put Russia on

24:59

its heels when you look at China

25:01

and Taiwan, there's

25:04

no question that president

25:06

Xi is looking at what we've

25:08

done in Ukraine with pause

25:10

as to whether he wants to move

25:12

on Taiwan. And so not not only

25:14

would we allow Putin

25:16

to overtake Ukraine

25:19

and Zelensky, you know, would probably

25:21

be deposed as a leader if

25:23

we backed out, but it would

25:25

certainly embolden Xi to move on

25:27

Taiwan. And then you would see,

25:29

you know, two fronts where freedom

25:31

would be overtaken by violent

25:34

ruthless dictators. So everything's on

25:36

the line. If Kevin McCarthy

25:38

is responsible and and cares

25:40

about defending freedom, then he

25:42

will put up Ukraine aid and

25:44

rely on democratic votes to get it across the

25:46

goal But if he is

25:48

worried about what the extremes in his

25:50

caucus think, then Ukraine

25:52

a will be at risk. As you know, Simon, he

25:54

does not have two hundred and eighteen votes

25:57

in his conference to

25:59

pass a Ukraine funding

26:01

package. And so he will need Democratic votes,

26:03

and we will give him those votes. We will not play

26:05

politics. This is about something bigger than

26:07

politics. But what we fear is that he'll play

26:09

politics, and he'll worry about his

26:11

own speakership, the lab scene if he were

26:13

to rely on Democratic votes, and

26:15

that's where their aid comes in jeopardy. And I'll

26:17

just say nothing has been more

26:19

invigorating and inspiring over

26:22

the last ten months than

26:24

watching nearly ten thousand miles

26:26

away, Ukrainians defend their

26:28

own freedom. And as

26:30

we see democracy on

26:32

life support here. It's just a reminder of

26:34

why we all fight

26:36

for this crazy idea, this crazy experiment

26:39

of self governance and and majority rule. So

26:41

it's inspiring to me. I think it's

26:43

inspiring to my colleagues. I know it's inspiring

26:45

to David who talks about it

26:47

a lot. and and we have to keep them in the fight.

26:49

It's a fight they can win. My

26:51

grandfather, Louis

26:53

Rosenberg, came from

26:55

Ukraine. was

26:55

a Ukrainian Jew. And I will tell you

26:57

there are days when I mean, just when you were talking

26:59

about Zelensky

27:02

that

27:02

given the history of Jews and

27:05

Ukraine, the

27:05

notion that the world's most

27:08

arguably powerful defender of

27:10

democracy came

27:11

from a similar background as

27:13

my my

27:14

own family is almost hard to believe.

27:16

Right? because Jews were not seriously that well

27:18

treated. in Ukraine, particularly in older

27:21

times. And for

27:22

his family to

27:24

have

27:24

stayed and stayed with

27:25

it through all that the

27:28

stuff that came is just

27:29

it's an incredible story. I mean, he

27:31

really truly is one of the most remarkable leaders

27:34

of

27:34

of of modern times.

27:37

and

27:37

and

27:38

history calls. And sometimes people

27:41

answer the call.

27:41

Sometimes they fail to. Right?

27:44

and

27:44

he certainly answered history's call in a way

27:46

that is inspiring all of

27:48

us every day. I mean, it's really just

27:51

a remarkable I

27:52

hope to get over there at some point and

27:54

and lend a

27:55

hand in any way that I can. I'm

27:57

very

27:57

proud of what they're doing. And

28:00

I And

28:00

I do think that your point about and and I

28:02

I think we just have a few minutes left, and I'd

28:04

like to use this to pivot

28:06

back to

28:06

something you said earlier,

28:08

which is Do

28:09

you think McCarthy if

28:12

he survives and he gets his

28:14

he becomes the speaker? Do you think

28:16

there's

28:17

any chance

28:18

that on any issue, he would ever

28:20

allow a vote to happen where

28:22

he needed Democratic votes to

28:24

get something over over the line. I mean, does

28:26

he survive that? if he if he uses that as

28:28

a tactic. And

28:30

I don't think he

28:32

survived he survives it. And and so it's a

28:34

matter of does Kevin McCarthy want to

28:36

do what's right and put the country

28:39

in

28:39

freedom

28:40

everywhere over his own

28:42

job? Or is he gonna be

28:45

singularly focused on keeping his own

28:47

job and willing to

28:49

see the consequences of that,

28:51

which would be government shutdowns.

28:55

economic collapse because we don't extend the debt

28:57

ceiling, letting Ukraine fail

28:59

because we don't fund their efforts. So he's

29:01

he's never been tested like this before.

29:04

He's a nakedly ambitious political

29:08

operator. But he's never been tested, you know, as

29:10

a leader. He's he's always been able to just take

29:12

potshots from the gallery you

29:14

know, as a minority leader, but he's never had to actually

29:17

lead. And so this will be a test. And, you

29:19

know, I'm rooting for him to pass this

29:21

test for the sake of, you know, what's

29:23

at stake? but I don't have

29:25

high expectations just seeing, you

29:27

know, as I said, the corrupt bargain he's already

29:29

struck to become speaker. And and so

29:31

it'll be a test for him. And to

29:33

test that we need him to pass?

29:34

I think it

29:36

was really smart of the president

29:39

to bring him over this

29:41

week. the

29:41

White House. I think he should do that frequently. I

29:43

think it's

29:43

important for Kevin McCarthy to be

29:46

reminded to be pulled out of the

29:48

bubble. that

29:48

he lives in, that they all live in every day and

29:51

be pulled back out into the big

29:52

world, and

29:53

to be reminded of the stakes of

29:55

of the challenges that are ahead of us,

29:57

the stakes of our politics right

29:58

now. I think the president was

29:59

wise to do that. I hope he does it

30:02

frequently because

30:02

I think as you know,

30:04

Cognizant

30:04

very well the

30:06

power and intensity of the

30:08

bubble

30:09

that they're all in there every day

30:11

is is hard for many Americans to

30:13

really understand. And

30:14

it is critical

30:15

that we try to give them a chance to

30:17

succeed. To your point, I mean, we're all patriots, we're

30:19

all Americans, we want the

30:21

right thing. And

30:21

I think is to give and to

30:23

have our

30:23

fingers crossed that Kevin McCarthy shows the

30:26

political dexterity, the courage,

30:28

the

30:28

leadership ability to do the right

30:30

thing when he needs to. It's not gonna be

30:32

often, but we're gonna need him to do

30:33

it a few times. That's

30:36

right, Simon. He can give a seat at the big kids

30:38

table or he at the adult's table. Yeah. And and

30:40

he's gonna and he's earned it. He's gonna be the in

30:42

theory, he's gonna be the speaker, and you

30:44

know, let's hope that history is calling

30:47

him and that he answers in a way that

30:49

is

30:49

right? But is also, he's dealing with a

30:52

very, very difficult situation

30:54

underneath

30:54

And and I do think that piercing this

30:57

bubble and

30:57

getting the Republicans out of this notion that

31:00

what politics is about is

31:01

getting first in line to get on Fox News

31:04

every day as

31:04

opposed to actually governing. Right? Which

31:07

is something that they haven't really had to do a lot of

31:09

in recent years. is

31:10

is really important. And I think the president

31:12

set it off on a on a smart

31:14

foot, which is that he's

31:15

not gonna let these guys off the hook. I mean,

31:17

they're now gonna be leading

31:19

the most

31:19

important delivery of body in the history of the

31:22

world. And, you know, they

31:22

have an obligation to get out of

31:25

there to

31:25

rise above and to not keep going

31:28

down. And and I think we should continue to expect that

31:30

out of them. And not to not to let them off the

31:32

hook. Congressman, thank you

31:33

so much. I I'm sorry, David

31:36

wasn't here. Hopefully, it was

31:38

It's

31:38

hard to fill in for David Rothkopf. I will tell you that.

31:40

It's a daunting No, Simon. I'll I'll just say you you

31:42

gave me a lot of help. You're and

31:45

you reaffirmed what my instinct

31:47

was leading up to the election

31:49

because I I never once

31:51

thought the cycle that we already

31:53

had wiped out. I felt like we had a lot to be proud of on

31:55

what we delivered, and I looked at the

31:58

contrast of the chaos

32:00

that they had on their side. And and

32:02

I just thought

32:04

how would the voters go for that

32:06

just because history says that they're

32:08

supposed to. This is about the

32:10

future. So why would we be looking back at

32:12

at history knowing so much is on the line in the

32:14

future. And then you didn't fall for it

32:16

either, and optimism begets

32:18

optimism, and and we should learn that lesson as we

32:20

go into twenty four. and no

32:22

more bed wetting a month before the

32:24

election because that's when it's all on the

32:26

line. And we need people to

32:28

fully engage. Well, and I

32:29

I just wanna say thank you for helping promote

32:31

my stuff. And

32:32

I believed because it was the data it was

32:34

showing me that. And I didn't believe in the

32:36

Red Wave. And There's a

32:38

lot of lessons in here that are very important,

32:40

but the thing

32:40

you hit on is the most important,

32:43

is

32:43

that the

32:44

center left is gonna prevail in my view

32:46

in this global fight between democracy

32:48

and democracy.

32:49

Only if we get more

32:52

intentional about creating positive sentiment

32:54

and

32:54

optimism in our politics, because

32:57

But

32:57

a lot of what MAGA and greater MAGA

32:59

do is to

33:00

put positive to negative sentiment into

33:03

our discourse they want us to

33:05

think less of ourselves, less of our country, less of our leaders,

33:07

less of the American project,

33:09

less of each other, less

33:11

of all the things that

33:12

we care about.

33:14

And

33:14

we have a role to play as information warriors,

33:17

and that was what I was doing consciously

33:19

every day for the last

33:20

several months of the election.

33:22

was not spinning and not,

33:24

you know,

33:25

but I was I

33:26

was I

33:27

had conviction in what I was saying

33:29

was And

33:30

so I fought in a different kind of

33:33

way. And

33:33

we need to learn how

33:35

to

33:35

fight harder and smarter here.

33:38

Right? because they're noisier than we are. We

33:40

don't have to replicate what they've done. We're

33:42

not gonna be them.

33:44

We have

33:44

to But we have to do it in our way. And of the things

33:46

I just wanna say hats off to you and one

33:48

that's excited here is that to me,

33:50

you're one of the most powerful

33:53

congressional

33:53

communicators that we have. You

33:55

show

33:55

up in my feed. You're just

33:58

around in what I do. I can feel

33:59

you every day through

34:02

your work, through

34:02

stuff getting retweeted, through your

34:05

television appearances, you're loud

34:07

in the way that I think we all need to be and I don't

34:09

mean loud in a boorish way.

34:11

loud in

34:11

an effective strategic way.

34:14

You're

34:14

really loud. And I think that for me,

34:16

you're one of the great communication examplers

34:19

in the Democratic Party we

34:20

need if we have thirty, forty, Eric's wallwalls in

34:22

the next, you know, few years, we're gonna

34:24

the country's gonna be

34:26

okay. And so

34:27

I wanna say thank you as a I'm just a

34:29

fan boy for your, you

34:31

know, for your passion, for your

34:33

intelligence, your fight, your

34:35

grit, you know, you're in there every

34:36

day, congressman, mixing it up. And

34:38

it's what it takes if we're gonna prevail here.

34:40

And I just, you know, as a patriotic American,

34:42

I

34:42

just wanna say thanks to you and all that.

34:45

Thank you. and then we're all authors in in what this

34:47

next chapter is. And so let's get out

34:48

there and make sure, you know,

34:51

we have the right entity. Listen

34:52

everybody. That's the part of the show. For those of you who are

34:55

just guests with us, there's

34:57

now a next part of

34:58

the show, which is for

35:01

they've

35:01

paid subscribers of

35:04

of Deep

35:04

State Radio. And so we're gonna take a

35:06

short break and we'll be

35:07

right back with you in just

35:09

a moment.