0:00

Michael Dinsio: What's up, guys? Another episode of Dental Acquisition Unscripted. I'm jacked about today's episode because it's definitely unique. So as you guys all know, we're working through the acquisition process. We go through it and then we start back at the top and go through it.But today's kind of unique because I have a famous person on the other side of this who is a fellow podcaster. And some of you probably know this guy. And he's got a very successful podcast. And he's new to ownership. And I think it's going to be fun because I want to have a conversation with him today about how you guys think about these deals before and after and even through college. And so special guest today is Oni Franco with the Dental Student Podcast. And I guess we should unbrand you from that, Oni, because you actually are a practice owner now. So we can start saying your practice name, Oni Franco. But welcome to the show, man. Welcome to the show. Oni Franco: Yeah, man. Huge pleasure. Thanks for having me on. I listen to your episodes. And man, they've been very helpful and definitely just appreciate you putting out that information out there for everybody to listen to. Michael Dinsio: Dude, that's what it's all about. We're just trying to fill you guys with some good stuff so that when you head into that closing table, you've checked a lot of boxes. And of course, we want to help you through that, but we know that we're not for everybody as far as consultants go. You know, but we lead with a giving hand because I think that's the way this universe works is you give and it comes back. So Oni Franco Dental Student Podcast. So, buddy, tell me tell me a little bit about like you. Like, I want to get to know you a little bit. What's what's your story? Like, you obviously started this podcast before anybody else figured out how to be famous dental student podcasters and so I just want to hear the story from you give me your story man yeah Oni Franco: Man I mean we can go ahead i'm born raised in south Florida uh went to ucf uh in orlando for undergrad And then I went to University of Florida, Gainesville. Michael Dinsio: Go Gators. Oni Franco: Yes, sir. Michael Dinsio: I'm a Buckeye. So we'll see what happens this year. Oni Franco: Yeah, this year's going to be interesting. Michael Dinsio: I'm going to be texting you on the side. Oni Franco: Yeah, it's going to be interesting. And yeah, and then, you know, kind of a couple of years through dental school, me, my friends, Justin, Eric, and RJ, we're really close and we're like, hey, listen, maybe we should do a podcast. One of the four of us, his dad is a dentist, listens to a whole bunch of dental podcasts that are out there done by dentists. And he was like, hey, listen, there's a niche for this. Maybe you should do a podcast for dental students. And at the time we were thinking about it, maybe that was after he kind of implanted that into our brains after the first year of dental school. And anybody who's listened to this, that's gone through dental school, knows that the first two years are very tough on you. A lot of didactic courses, a lot of hand skill courses that you kind of need to master. So there's a lot going on. And we took our boards at the end of the second year and said, OK, let's go ahead and do this. We bought all the equipment and we got some advice from people. Yeah, we got some advice from some people who were doing podcasts. And we're like, all right, what are we going to talk about? And we're just, you know, just like you, just want to go ahead, put information out there that so a lot of people can access it through the touch of their phone. And we were going through a lot of leadership conferences. We were meeting a whole bunch of lecturers and dentists around the U.S. We were going on lobby days. We were very involved with ASDA and SciOmega. And we were just like, hey, listen, we're learning so much here. Let's make this available for our classmates essentially. Michael Dinsio: Yeah Oni Franco: And other dental students around the world around the U.S. and so we'd come back. We would go ahead and record all the information we had. You know, We put the first one out and we're like, wow, like, I guess people, you know, there's a, you know, a place for this in the, in the podcast wold. Cause nobody was really podcasting back then.We did this back in 2018. So like, it was pretty much like Joe Rogan, you know, this is like back when he was with Apple. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. Right Oni Franco: And so, yeah. So we were like, okay, let's go ahead and keep on doing it. And you know, we were just. know now going on five years strong so yeah it's uh it's been a great time get to meet awesome people like such as yourself. and uh you know we're learning along the way too we know we're definitely not coming from a place like, hey we we know this. you know we want to teach you this it's more like We bring on guests and we ask them a bunch of questions. We learn as well while the audience is learning through their headphones. Michael Dinsio: That's crazy. That's awesome. Fun. Podcasting is great. It's really interesting. Once you're in it, you have to commit, right? What's really interesting to me is the four of you, right? There was four in the beginning. Oni Franco: Yeah, it was four of us. It was Justin, Eric, RJ, and myself. So I'm definitely not taking full credit for this. Michael Dinsio: Yeah, no, no. Yeah, it's great. I'm on your site and can see you guys down the bottom there. So it's interesting because once you commit, you have to keep it up. You can't just like not not produce an episode. And I'm thinking about that. And you guys as students had to go and find more great information. So like, it wasn't really because of yourself, but it was? But it wasn't? Because you had to keep your program going. And so you guys are like the epitome of that which made you guys go out and get great information, which actually has benefited you! I'm assuming, it helped get you to where you're at today. Is that a true statement? Oni Franco: Yeah, definitely. For sure. For sure. And There was a lot of reaching out. There was a lot of looking up to mentors. Hey, can you come on? Can you give us a soundbite, for 30 minutes? It's really casual. We do a lot of them over Zoom now. There's definitely some of that pressure to keep it going. The beautiful thing about podcasts is that they never go away. If you ever want to you know access the podcast you can always go you can click rewind you can you know and listen to it as many times as you want take notes Michael Dinsio: go back five years and watch Oni Franco: exactly and that's the amazing part of it so it's always there it's always it's available for everybody so that's the great thing and that's kind of what people like. What i try to tell people that you know um that lecture at conferences or something and they're looking to get involved more and come on podcast i'm like hey listen like you know you had to kind of hope that somebody showed up there for the conference where for this, this is like an opportunity that you can speak to everybody. Michael Dinsio: Yeah, that's right. No, that's it's great. So, OK, so you started this podcast, you got all this great information. You went to residency. You're an orthodontist today and you how many you didn't associate very long, did you? You went right into ownership, is that true? Oni Franco: yeah Michael Dinsio: so so, give me the timeline there so that because that's not normal but let's talk about that. Oni Franco: Graduated in May 2023 Michael Dinsio: like, a minute ago, Oni Franco: Eight months ago. Michael Dinsio: Eight months ago, and then you bought a practice when? Oni Franco: A month ago. Michael Dinsio: All right so now you are a practice owner. So you went right from school. Now the thing about that is you went to residency and so that's the x factor. A lot of folks take a couple of years to get their hand speed up and um figure out the business and work for some corporate to learn from their mistakes. I always say it's a great training, training ground, but you went through residency. So that was kind of your training ground. And then you went right to, to ownership. So, so I want to tap into all that, but before we get into ownership, cause I'm going there, of course, this program's about buying practice. We're going there. I want to like tap into all the things, all those emotions, all those thoughts about and you're the one percenter. Let's be honest. You're ambitious. The four of you are superambitious and started this program. But I do want to like understand and have a conversation about like, is there an expectation?What are the conversations at school like? When you're year three, year four, even in residency, is it all about ownership? Is everybody like, I want to buy or I just want to be an associate? Like, does everybody want ownership? Is that like a thing? Oni Franco: I don't think everybody wants ownership, nor is it for everybody. From what I understand from people that have just been in the dental field for, you know, 20, 30, 40 years, I think it's something that, we definitely speak about in dental school. There's clubs that you can join. And also of course the, you know, the adjunct faculty that are out there teaching you a lot of them do have private, well, some of them are depending on what school you go to there are some experience um practice faculty that were practice owners yeah um in their previous career so um it's definitely something that's talked about i think that there is a little bit of a journey before you get there um forthe most part like as you said you know you might be taking a job with you know maybe a corporation or um you may be taking a job with a private practice opportunity that you may have and then maybe you know, you kind of figure something out ahead, you know, with that, with the, you know, the senior doc, um, and maybe you take over that senior docs position somewhere down the line. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. Um, so, so, but like people are having that conversation in school, like Oni Franco: 100%, Michael Dinsio: So they're like, Hey, I want to own, these are my goals. Like business is starting to become, I'm just curious. I'm asking business is starting to become a thing in dental school? Oni Franco: Yeah. you know there are a couple of business courses um that you take in your final year uh we have one at florida when again when i say like we this is back you know 4 or 5 years ago so um so i'm not sure what you know if a lot of other schools are doing that i can only speak to the experiences that i've had personally right. there's definitely some if you're out there looking for it and you're like hey listen this is what i was born to do. I want to become a practice owner. There's a plethora of information out there that you can look at and you can expose yourself to. Michael Dinsio: What's really interesting, Oni, is that when I was at BofA, I used to do the pizza parties. Hey, I'm Bank of America. I can give you a loan. When you're ready, I'll give you a loan. The insurance people, hey, you need insurance. And by the way, when you buy a practice, you're gonna need more insurance. And attorneys, attorneys come and talk to you guys a lot at school. Hey, I'm an attorney. When you're ready to look at that associate agreement, I'll look at it. But they're really, what they're doing is fishing for acquisitions and startup leases, right? So you're being kind of indoctrinated pretty early on, which is great. I find that like, even if people showed up at those pizza parties, I would just kind of like look at the room and I'd be like, okay, there's like two people in here that are taking this stuff seriously. Uh, and then everybody else came for the, just the pizza. I mean, is that kind of like, I mean, there's some, there's, there was definitely some hardcore people that had ownership on their mind, ready to roll, probably guys like you and gals. Um, it's just really interesting. I'll, I'll say this. Um, Look, I went through business school. I went to Ohio State. A little plug for OSU. The Ohio State. Sorry. Let me recorrect. Oni Fraco: Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Michael Dinsio: And look like I went through business school and then I got an MBA. And I would say even all of my business friends, colleagues, people that I graduate don't own their own business. But yet you guys have a business course, if you even have one at your school. And I remember a statistic was like the ADA said that. I want to say it was like at least 50% of you will be owners at some point in your career. Yet you didn't even have a business course, right? And I went through an MBA course and I wouldn't say half of the MBAs own their own company. So isn't that like, dude, that's like four, six years of business, business, business. And most of those people won't be owners. Yet you guys are going through six, seven, eight years, whatever. Of dental school and maybe one or two business courses. And you have to seek that out. Should that be part of the program? Oni Franco: I definitely think that there should be, um, you know, business courses incorporated within the curriculum for dental schools, residencies. I mean, it's very important. Um, you know, there's like you said, like a lot of people that are a lot of dentists, like there's a high percentage of them that will become a dental owner, um, you know, at some point in their career. So a lot of, you know, I think it might be, it might be going down a little bit from what I'm seeing in the chart numbers in terms of how quickly dentists get into ownership. I think it's just moving back a couple of years. Michael Dinsio: I think that's a healthy thing. Meaning, let me make sure I'm understanding. You graduate. The opposite of you. You graduate and it's taking longer to get into ownership. Oni Franco: Yes, that's what I believe. We can go down the whole student debt thing, but I think that has a huge part of… that, um, in terms of just kind of postponing ownership, because I think the average debt, um, idea put out was like $287,000. For ortho, I think we're like 500k to 600k. I think that's like the average that people are graduating with. And, it's a lot of money. So people are like saying, okay, hold on. Let me go to the employer. That's going to pay me, you know, 10, 15, 20% above. I'm going to work a little bit harder. Um, maybe see a little bit more patients, and then, you know, and then you go from there. Then maybe, you know, three, four years when you're a little bit more comfortable and you want to seek ownership or you kind of have to make the decision. Maybe I like this working Monday - Thursday. Monday - Friday. I like my current hours. I go home. I don't have homework. I don't have to deal with, um, you know, all the business stuff, so to say, like what you were talking about earlier. You know, I think people are moving towards that. People are moving towards the work-life balance and just trying to figure that out a little bit more. Michael Dinsio: I'm bouncing around in my head a little bit on this. And I think this is a great – let's hold here because I think this is a really great conversation. I think if you want ownership – To me, and I hear you on the debt. I do. I'm an ex-banker. I'm comfortable with debt. Debt's like what you do. If you want a business, you get a loan. You want a house, you get a loan. If you want out of the business, you sell the business, you get the money back, it pays off the debt. If you want to sell your house and get out of debt, there's assets that pay off the debt. It's called a balance sheet. You have assets and you have liabilities. And so if you take out debt, yeah, you have debt, but you also have an asset that clears it out. So to me, I look at debt differently. Student debt doesn't have an asset other than a piece of paper. Now, I'm not saying that that's not worth something. It absolutely is. You have to be an orthodontist to do orthodontics. Well, that's not true, but you get what I'm saying. You have to be a dentist to do dentistry. And I guess what I'm saying is, is if you want ownership, I would challenge to press on it quicker. You're two months in, three months in, you're of ownership-ish, right? Oni Franco: Yes. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. But you haven't felt the gains yet. You're all in the stress mode right now. So I can't ask you this. But if you were to ask an owner that's been in it six years, they're going to be like, oh, yeah. I mean, I wish I did it sooner. You're just not there yet. It's going to take you two, three years. Oni Franco: Yeah, I think the numbers also do show that. And, you know, I was just sitting in a lecture from Chris Benson from Benson Koppel and Associates and show that great with that firm. Right. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. A great CPA firm, right? Oni Franco: Yeah, they do a whole bunch of transitions and stuff like that for an acquisitions for orthodontists. And they and they and they talk about like, you know, what do the numbers look like if you're working 30, 40 years as a W2? 1099 or what does it look like? And how does that compare to owners? Michael Dinsio: Right. It's a dramatic difference. Oni Franco: It is a little, yeah, it is a little different. Michael Dinsio: But what's interesting about that is if they didn't look at the 20 year deal and they looked at, if they looked at like delaying two years, I just did a presentation. And if you delayed it just two years and I did like some math and it was a $200,000 net worth gap, maybe more. I mean, look, that's not crazy, but like, it's probably more. And there were a lot of, it was a very conservative model, but like.. Oni Franco: And then, hey, compound interest over 30, 40 years. Michael Dinsio: No, that didn't include that. So you take 200 grand over what, a 15 year career, 20 year career, That's that's over a million bucks, I bet. So and that's just a two year. So look, I'm not saying get in, be dumb and just jump in because it's not. I think you said it. It's not for everybody, but. But I would say if you want ownership, do it sooner. And I love that you did it real quick because, look, you just jumped in. You've got all this great information from the podcast. You're prepared, dude. It's going to be hard, but I love that you did it. Are you any regrets? Oni Franco: No, zero regrets. And with what you just said as well. Like, yeah, you know, you can come in, you can talk to all your mentors. You can go through the list of podcast hosts that you've had. You can, you can talk to, you know, listen to other podcasts, listen to, you know, YouTube videos. But at the end of the day, like there's just gonna be things that you're gonna learn and you just, you can't, you can't learn it without going through it. Michael Dinsio: That's right. Oni Franco: So anybody that's listening in, that's gonna about to go through it. Um, you know, I just wanna let you know, Like, and you probably said this on your show before. It's like, it's just something you, when you go through, you will learn everything about it. And there'll be some hiccups here and there and that's okay. That's part of the process. Michael Dinsio: That's right. Oni Franco: And it's impossible to learn everything up front. And I think that's something with our personalities as, you know, dentists. We are like, for the majority, we're type A's. And we're like, hey, you know, we're used to like having to score really good and high on tests. And every single question you get wrong, you know, it's a deduction. And so like, you know, we're kind of very, you know. Michael Dinsio: Perfectionists. Oni Franco: Yes. Michael Dinsio: You have to be. Oni Franco: We're drilled like that, no pun intended, you know. And so, yeah. we that's how we feel and just that's just not the name of the game here like there's just going to be learning on the fly and you got to learn how to manage it and that's just you know i'm speaking from somebody that's only been in it for a little bit and um I consistently just have to remind myself that. Michael Dinsio: Dude that Dan my producer take that sound bite and i want that to be the short clip because. Because look, business is not perfect. It's just not. Like like I'll be super transparent. Next Level had banner quarters this year. Banner, banner, banner. Third quarter hit and not so much. We retracted. It's inevitable. You don't hit banners every single quarter. It's not realistic. And so when things do contract, that's where growth happens. When you mess up, that's where growth happens. And I'm not trying to be a dorky consultant right now, but it's true. When you go through a hard time, you see that growth. And so you got to go through some hard times to see that growth. And you're probably right in the you're at the pinnacle of having so much information, which is why this is a really interesting conversation, because I probably won't find another person out of the four of you, another person that has learned and heard really great stuff for as long as five years of your podcast. And you had to do it. It wasn't you, but you had to do it to keep your podcast up. And and yet you're only going to learn something when you're ready to learn it. So here you are. You went through the process. Shoot, how many times did you interview a guy like me that was an acquisition or a startup expert? Many, many times before you went through it, but when you were going through it, you needed that information. And so like, it's really interesting how even a guy like you that had all that information, I guarantee you, you went through some hardship through this process. Oni Franco: There's, there's just things that are going to pop up, like just, just very, there's just things, of course you do the best you can to just, um, you know, lower the amount or, um you know make sure they're not major hiccups. you know what i mean? Thankfully we haven't had any major hiccups. and um you know and you talk about this on your show i'm sure it's just you got to make sure you surround yourself with a great team around you and you know people that are experienced such as yourself that are going to come in and be part of the deal and say hey listen like you should maybe look out for this demolition clause in the lease. You know what I mean? You should maybe just look at the options. You know, things that are just so very like just vital to the deal. And you know, what, what are we going to know? where, I mean, we just graduated dental school and we graduated residency. We're like, we're busy learning all this stuff so we can treat our patients to the best of our abilities. And at the same time, like, No, I mean, was it Henry Ford that said it? I mean, like you just hired the smartest person in the room for that for that particular thing, that particular job. So that's right. That's like I don't need to be the person that's going to answer every single thing like I just know. And then we find that person that's going to go at it and help me facilitate this responsibility or this duty that I need to get through. Michael Dinsio: It's trust though, right? Oni, it's trust. Because you're so on point. I'm imagining Joe Biden in this present, in this moment of time, forget politics, but when there's a crisis, they lock themselves down in the room and we've all seen the movie. And there's a bajillion people in this room. And I don't even know what it's actually like, but the movies make it sound like there are 50 people in the room, right? Why? Because he or she, hopefully someday, is in the captain's chair and they have to make the decision, but they can't make a decision without all these smart people in all these different departments, right? That's an extreme of what we're talking about. But all those people in the room didn't get the job to be in that chair, to be an advisor to the president if they weren't great. They've earned that spot. And so I don't think we I think everybody listening to the program that's considering ownership or whatever startup or acquisition. I think everybody's heard what you just said is you need great people. Let's talk about how does an advisor, like myself, I'll learn something from you today. Maybe you're gonna give me something today. How do you gain that trust? Because it's about trust, right? It's about trust. So how? What do us professionals need to do to be better for you guys to trust? Because look, we're all asking you for some money. We're all asking you for some money. So what's that advice? Oni Franco: Yeah. Of course! You know, I think just for me, it's something that needs to be vetted out. You know, I got to have a couple of personal referrals. Probably most likely just kind of, you know, okay. I heard about this guy, Mike Dinsio, from a couple of people who went through the process with him. Okay. How was it? I'm very, very big on that. And then, you know, kind of feel them out on the phone or in person and, you know, I'm kind of old school like that. I'm very slow to pull the trigger. And honestly, that could be one of my biggest weaknesses. I'm slow to pull the trigger on things. I'll kind of just take my time until I kind of like feel comfortable or I feel like I'm making the best move. I'll talk to a couple of people. And, um, that's, that's the biggest thing to kind of earn my trust. Okay. You know, Dr. Jones just went through this acquisition process. Okay. Who was your buyer rep? You know, Dinsio. Okay, I’ll ask. What was your experience? You know? And if they come up with a good experience and really value that person, I'm not going to ask people that I don't value their opinion. Right. You're not going to ask, you know, you're not going to ask opinions of people that you don't wouldn't trade your spot in life with. Right. That's just kind of like how I live life. If, um, and so if there's somebody that I'm looking at, and I'm looking to hire, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ask for somebody that's kind of vetted out and, you know, then I'll, that's how I kind of find myself getting comfortable. Um, it could be different for other people. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. I think, I think that's, I think that's spot on. And it reminded me of a book I read, it's called the Influence Science and Practice. It's by Robert Cialdini. It’s basically, I was looking it up. It's basically psychiatry or psychology??? My sister's a psychiatrist. I'm probably using that wrong. Oni Franco: She's going to come after you. Michael Dinsio: She's going to kill me. I hope she's not listening. Of influence. It's the art of influence. And one of the principles is someone else saying something about you. That's what you're talking about. You know what's really interesting about that? I'm taking it back to dentistry, so I appreciate that I have people that are saying good things about you um and all that good stuff so that that's huge uh and I agree definitely do that I don't think people follow through with my references they always ask and then I and then I don't think they actually ask my references like ask them. Or just read my Google reviews or whatever. But bottom line, I love what you just said, but it's reminding me of the principles of influence by Robert Cialdini. And he talks about all the principles. One of them is if you get somebody to say something great about you, people are more likely to believe that person, not the person who's saying it. And what's interesting about that is that's the same thing with treatment planning. And dentists don't realize that. A lot of you guys don't. And if you're trying to increase your case acceptance, your dental assistants, in your case, your hygienist for GPs, have to back you up and talk to the patient about the same diagnosis and you pass the power. It needs to be passed back to the front office everybody is backing you up and it's and it's psychology. I think yeah isn't that right? Oni Franco: I agree with you. I mean just think about it dentistry is a very personal profession. I guess for well not I guess it's definitely personal you're in someone's mouth like you're right in front of their face. A lot of people will ask their friends and family, hey, who do you recommend as a dentist? When you go to a restaurant these days, what's your first thing? You've never been to a restaurant. You have your phone in front of you. You're looking up like, okay, what are the Google reviews? What are the Yelp reviews? Is this place vetted out? So I think that's just kind of like where this world is kind of going. Michel Dinsio: Yeah that's great... uh you need a great team. Sorry for that. I digressed on treatment planning and influence, Oni Franco: No, I love it! And it's also the opposite for that as well, too. If you're, you know, you see your assistants doing a great job, you see like your, your TC’s doing a great job, go ahead and hit them with some positive affirmation and say, Hey, just want to, you know, Mrs. Smith, you're doing great today. Mrs. Smith, you did. You did awesome. I appreciate that. Do that in front of the patients as well, too. Just kind of it's all-around team building. Michael Dinsio: I love that. It's a great tip. All right. So back to back to our program, that little treatment, treatment planning. Oni Franco: Yeah, you're going to have a tough time figuring out a topic for this episode. Michael Dinsio: No, look, I really didn't have a grandiose strategy here. Other than I wanted to tap into you. So we're kind of at that place where I want to talk about the acquisition itself and kind of where your brain's at today. Because like, look, we kind of touched on it. Ownership isn't for everybody. I did want to say that. Like, if you're feeling the pressure of ownership, don't. Just find that right job making your money putting in your time ownership challenging, and that's kind of where I'm going with this. Now that you're through the process well for first what were some of the pitfalls challenges of your deal um probably as similar to a lot of deals or was it crazy streamlined because you had great advisors it's okay if it was perfect. Oni Franco: Well, I kind of want to preface with, you know, I think Collier and Associates says this, and I got to give a shoutout to Preston Miller. He honestly just texted me this out of the blue, like right before I was, you know, starting to think about this whole acquisition process. And he was just like, the most important thing in business and in life is what's more important than the deal is the person you're in the deal with. And so for me, again, we go back to honesty. We go back to trust. What we were just talking about a few minutes ago is like, if I felt comfortable with the person that was selling the practice and you kind of just hit it off, that was very important to me. And, you know, there's so many deals out there, right? And I knew that there was going to be a transition period. And, you know, you hear about all, even you listen to your podcast, you listen to NDP podcast with Charles Loretto's, and they. You know, can sleep talk about, okay, these are the pitfalls. This is where you're going to see, um, you know, this might not work out. You hear from the lawyers, you hear from the CPAs, the people who do the evaluations. Michael Dinsio: Yup. Oni Franco: So for me, the most important part was, okay, if I'm gonna engage in this process, which is not two weeks long by any means, I want to do it with somebody that I felt that I trusted and that was very honest. And I have been blessed with that to be completely transparent. I've been blessed with a person that I've been transitioning with, and they have been absolutely amazing, and, I couldn't have asked for, uh, I don't think I could have asked for a better, you know, person to transition with. Which is kind of just, you know, you, you talk about it all ahead of time and you know, there's, again, there are just so many things though. Not, not everything makes it into the contract. You know, that's just, there's just some things that you just gotta be like, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let this go. Like, you know, all right. You know, there's, I don't know. I'm just bringing up the example. There's this lab bill, like, all right. We didn't talk about let's just go 50/50 on it. Or maybe, you know, this person takes the loss on this and then you take the loss on the next one. Like, and honestly that, you know, just finding that right person, you're not going to always find that right person. I, from, you know, other talks that I've had and, you know, just hearing stories and, you know, way more than me. Michael DInsio: No. Yeah. Oni Franco: And I just feel very blessed and lucky, honestly, to have been able to meet the person that I've met. Michael Dinsio: A couple of things on this, Oni. I keep thinking about this. So a couple of things. Meet the seller. It's important. Across the table. You know who you're dealing with. Whether you really hit it off or not, at least, you know, it doesn't mean that the practice is not a good buy if you're not like best friends with them.Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing is, is Oni's an ortho, so that's really important in the transition because these are referral sources sending the seller opportunity. Ortho's going really direct these days, similar to pedo and GP, but there's still a ton of referrals coming in. So for any of you that is a specialist, that's a must, what he just said. That's a must, must. GP, not so much, but it would be definitely great, great to have that kind of connection. So I love that tip. And I did want to touch on another thing. Oni is super mature. And I say that because, business is mature. I don't know about you personally. You might be super immature, personally. Oni Franco: Could be. Depends on who you ask. Michael Dinsio: But from a business perspective, he's mature because he said, if you heard it, not everything makes it into the contract and there are just some things that you have to be cool about. I think a lot of my clients in this next generation think it's a zero-sum game, a win-lose game, and it doesn't exist. Couldn't be further than the truth, honestly. Right? I mean, these are two people, two business owners, and you might have the idea the seller's made all this money, and it's my turn. I'm due, and I don't have any money, and he or she's got a ton of money so they should take the loss. No, we're all people, and fair is fair. So, just be fair. Oni Franco: Yes, 100%. I think you just if you think that you're going to go in and try to win on every single little thing, there's going to be an unhappy person at that point. And wow, I don't know. I don't know. For me, that's just not how I roll. I would like to think that I don't roll like that. But that's just kind of my thoughts, and listen, everybody's a human being at the end of the day like there's a lot of things going on in terms of psychologically, mentally, emotionally, physically with selling or buying a practice, like yeah, there's a lot more deals that go down some are just hey business is a business type of deal. You know, I get that from a standpoint too. But you're right. You do make a very good point in terms of orthodontics. Like you are seeing, I see some of these, let's say if a patient started a month before the acquisition happened, I will see that patient, you know, a year and a half, two years, two and a half years could be even longer. So it's like just making sure that you know, the transition goes well and that person that's in it with you is your cheerleader, too. And you want to be their cheerleader as well. Michael Dinsio: Yeah, a thousand percent. On the legal side, I'm gonna drop this. He only said that, and not everything makes it to the contract. That's true. And a lot does make it to the contract. Let me put that in perspective. If it is in your contract, I've seen many deals where stuff was in the contract, and then it was breached or a broken agreement. The funny thing is, again, the type A's, the perfectionism, the imature bussiness person, is like “Oh he broke his contract”. They didn't pay for a lab case. What are you going to do? Are you going to take them to court over $1,000? No. So just because it's in the contract, folks, does not mean that common sense will follow, post-close. You're not going to take someone to court for.... I have literally had clients where all of this was buttoned up in contracts. I've had sellers steal almost the whole team. I’v had people take a chair post-close. I've had a sterilization center taken in the middle of COVID, a transaction that happened right after COVID, and they took the sterilization and put it in their other office. I've had all kinds of stuff, straight contract breach, straight up. And the buyers almost every single time are like, you know, what the hell am I going to do? I'm going to take him to court over a thousand dollars and it's going to stress me out, and it's going to… they end up buying the stuff. I mean, I mean, that's it. So when you're across the table from the seller, just like Oni said, it's really about that gut feeling, right? Oni Franco: Yeah. And honestly, yeah. And I'm a big-feel type of guy. I don't know if my wife really likes it. They're like, Why do you feel like you need to get along with the person that the, you know, with the hostess or like, you feel like you need to get along with the waiter or like, you're just like, hey, like, you know, I don't even realize it.You know, why do you feel like, hey, you're going to buy a car? Why do you feel like, like the guy or the guy has to give you a good vibe? Like, why does it matter? It's a transaction. And she's an attorney. So like, you know, she's wired like. And it's funny. I'm the same way. My dad's the same way. I probably just got it from him. Michael Dinsio: It's a skill set. That's a skill. Oni Franco: I don't know. There's probably some cons. There are definitely cons that come with that. Michael Dinsio: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are strengths and weaknesses. Right. The type A's have a lot of strengths, but there's a lot of weaknesses. Oni Franco: One hundred percent. Michae Dinsio: Making slow decisions. A lot of weakness in that, but a lot of strength too in some ways. And then, you know, uh, we go through a behavior assessment and I'm way over time here. So Oni, we're going to shut this down soon. I can interview all day but, but we do a behavior analysis, which is called DISC. If you've ever heard of it, it’s called DISC and, and what you're describing, I bet you you're a high “I”. Are you a high “I”? Have you done DISC analysis? I haven't done it. I've done a couple of other ones that do like colors and stuff. Okay. Yeah. So there's a lot out there. There's different ones, but you're a high I and that trait is that you want to connect and your influencer and you like to build relationships through that. And there's like you can influence people as an “I”. But a lot of people don't have that. Like maybe your wife. I don't know. And it's hard for them to influence, but they're very open. Very detailed, very complient, very, uh, and there's, there's again, a lot of strength in that too, but a high “I” and a high “C” in this case, are almost different spectrums. So she's probably like, what are you doing? Are you flirting with that waitress? But really, that's not what it is in your head. It's probably just, you're trying to do a transaction with somebody. Oni Fraco: Exactly. Exactly. And it's good to have probably, you know, have the high “I”'s. There are “D”'s, “I”'s, the “S”'s and the “C”'s, you know, it's like, you just want to make sure you have a well-balanced team. That's right. And I heard a lot of people, you know when they get bigger teams, they make them on an annual basis. Or if they're hiring, they go ahead and take that. We do the personality tests or the trade behavior and behavior tests. Yeah. And so, yeah, and then just kind of hire off that or just see what they need to fill in. Michael Dinsio: We do at Next Level Consultants. That's exactly what we do. That's awesome. Great tips. Well, my friend, any last little bits of the audience that's listening and folks looking to buy or start? Jump over to The Startup Uncensored podcast folks if you're a startup person. But any last kind of tidbits of your journey for the acquisition itself that you want to give? Oni Franco: Yeah, sure. You know if you're if you know you want to be a business owner and you're financially in a position to do it, you know you're never really in a financial position to do it right because you went to dental school your 300k, 500k, 600k, or 700k thousand dollars worth in debt, you know. I just kind of look at that, not as an expense but more like an investment. But if you want to be an owner, right? And you are moving back to your hometown and your wife so your wife's family's there your family's there, your brothers and sisters um, and you know you're moving back to this area and you know you want to be an owner someday. You know, just go ahead and just kind of put some feelers out there. Talk to a bunch of people. It can get a little hairy with some non-competes. So, just try to think about that on the front end. If you hop into an employment agreement, just think about what those non-competes look like. Draw those radiuses out and ask yourself, is this good for me? Or is this not good for me? That was a decision I had to make early on, like, okay, South Florida is very packed, very dense area, and there are many non-competes for, you know, a lot of miles. They had three, four, and five locations from these places. What your typical job will look like, and maybe you can hop around at least for orthodontics if you're working in that realm. So you just kind of have to say, OK, what is my exit strategy? What is my game plan? Where do I want to be in five years? And so I'm kind of rambling here, but it's just something to consider. It's not as easy as, like, OK, I want to hop into ownership. I'll just take this one job, and then, you know, I'll start looking for leases and agreements after that. Just look at what your non-compete is. I think that's very important. And then just hire the right team. Get the practice evaluated. If it's not. If there's no evaluation, get it done. It's worth it. Hire an attorney. It's worth it. Hire an accountant, people that are going to go ahead. And I know it's hard. It's hard to write that check. I have a consultant, too. I have a coach. Trust me, it's hard to write that check. But at the end of the day, I just came out of residency. I don't know everything. I'm very well aware that I know a little bit. Michael Dinsio: This coming from a host of a podcast of five years who has been listening to professionals for five years, and he's still admitting that maturity again. He's admitting right now that he still doesn't have it all. Oni Franco: I need you to tell my wife honestly. That I'm mature. Michael Dinsio: Let's have your wife on the show next time. Oni Franco: Yeah, right? Maybe as an attorney. But that's it. And if you're going to do it, you can do it. You can do it. Feel free to reach out. We're on Dental Student Podcast. You can find us on pretty much any site. You can DM us on Instagram. If you have any questions, I'm more than happy to help out. Just the trials and tribulations, just like you went through in dental school, just like you went through residency. You can do it. I believe in you 100%. The information is out there. Go ahead and find it. Podcasts make everything so available. YouTube University. I'm a big student on that. So, yeah, you can do it. Michael Dinsio: Dude, I love that. That was inspirational, folks. If you doubt any of that, you're crazy, and watch this on YouTube. You can see his conviction and that he’s coming from the heart. I can tell. And that he cares about you guys just like I do. And so fllow him on his Instagram. Follow us on our Instagram. Check this out on YouTube. All the things, all the things, guys, all the things. And if you are thinking startup, jump onto the other podcast Start Up Unscripted. One last little reminder: Next Level Consultants is a consulting firm that helps you guys do all this stuff. We make sure people aren't doing the wrong things before ownership and then make them successful post-close as well. We would love to be at your presidential table like we discussed earlier. Oni Franco: And those mistakes can cost you a lot more than what it costs to hire a good team. That's a huge thing. So, maybe it costs a few thousand dollars here and there. But, you know, some of these mistakes can be very, very big. Michael Dinsio: And, you know, it's funny. We'll shut it down on this one .But it's funny. Like, I don't want to go back to the client and say, gosh, like I just saved you five grand in that because that's kind of like egotistical. But like you almost have to. Because if you go through the process super smooth and nothing hurts you, that just means that your team did such a great job. Oftentimes, those clients don't realize that savings. But they do realize that savings when something does go wrong and they didn’t hire an advisor. Oni Franco: Yes. Yep. And you know what camp you want to be in when you have those two options. Michael Dinsio: Exactly. Oni Franco: It’s been a pleasure Michael Dinsio: All right. With that being said, my friend. Yeah, this has been fun, man. And thank you for your time.I t's an investment in your time and mine. And I appreciate you. All right. Without further ado, let's shut this bad boy down.