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0:48

Hi I'm Margie Nomura and welcome

0:51

to the Desert Island Dishes podcast. This

0:53

is the podcast where every week I ask

0:56

my guests to choose their seven Desert

0:58

Island dishes. These range from

1:00

finding out about the dish that most reminds them of

1:02

their childhood, the best dish they've

1:05

ever eaten and of course the

1:07

last dish they would choose to eat before

1:09

being cast off to the Desert Island. The

1:11

question is what would you choose as

1:13

your last meal? Hi I

1:16

hope you're all very well. I'm very excited

1:18

today

1:18

as I've just had the most amazing

1:20

brand agree to do a giveaway with the Dinner

1:23

Tonight newsletter. Just firming up

1:25

the details as we speak but this is so

1:27

good. It's the kind of giveaway I actually

1:30

want to enter myself but I need to check

1:32

what the rules would be on that. So if you haven't

1:34

yet signed up this is a good time to do

1:37

it. You can do it by going to the website www.desertislandishes.co.

1:41

It's free for everyone every other week

1:43

and then if you pay just 76p

1:46

a week you get recipes

1:48

every single week and also lots more

1:50

planned. I was going to say sorry

1:52

for talking about the newsletter again but I'm

1:55

actually not sorry because I'm so

1:57

excited about it. I've never written

1:59

a code.

1:59

or actually I have but

2:02

only as a ghost writer. And

2:04

this is like writing a serialized cookbook.

2:07

And to then know that people are cooking the recipe

2:09

that week, it's honestly the best

2:11

feeling. And if you do choose to support

2:13

it as a paid member, please do

2:16

note that that does not go unnoticed.

2:19

It honestly makes my day. Every

2:21

time I get one of those notifications, it

2:23

makes such a difference

2:24

to me. And I promise I'm

2:26

working really, really hard to make

2:29

sure

2:29

you get lots of amazing recipes and

2:32

really good value for money. On

2:34

with today, we have a lovely episode

2:36

for you with the brilliant Zenna, who

2:39

I would like to think is my friend in real

2:41

life, but we'll have to ask her if she agrees.

2:44

She came around to my house and we drank coffee

2:46

and chatted all about her seven desert island

2:49

dishes. I'm so lucky

2:51

that I get to speak to so many brilliant

2:52

people. I've

2:53

never not learned something. And

2:56

I hope it's the same for you listening to. Zenna

2:58

is doing amazing things. Her food

3:01

is gorgeous. She's absolutely

3:03

incredible at creating food videos.

3:06

That's the kind that you just want to dive into.

3:08

And I'm constantly asking her for advice

3:11

and she's always so generous and she's

3:13

just a really great person. And

3:16

you know from listening to this podcast that

3:18

I enjoy nothing more than seeing

3:20

really good things happen to good people.

3:23

So I really hope you enjoy today's episode. My

3:27

guest today is Zenna Kangang. Zenna

3:29

describes herself as a passionate home chef,

3:32

a recipe creator and food enthusiast.

3:35

She's been passionate about cooking since she was

3:37

a young girl and she has always loved experimenting

3:40

with food and playing around with different ingredients,

3:42

flavors and textures. Before

3:44

going full time as a freelance recipe creator,

3:47

she worked for a charity and ran their anti-human

3:50

trafficking initiative. Worked for

3:52

a food media company as head of ops

3:54

before working at Mob Kitchen, the food media

3:56

platform. Zenna burst onto

3:58

the food creator scene. she appeared on Jamie

4:01

Oliver's Cookbook Challenge, and since

4:03

then, her career has gone from strength to

4:05

strength. She has since appeared on Lorraine,

4:08

has garnered a huge online following, and

4:10

this seems to be just the start. Welcome,

4:12

Zenna. Thank you, thank you. Wow, what an introduction.

4:16

It's so lovely to have you on Desert Island Dishes,

4:19

and if you listen to the podcast, you will

4:21

know that at the end, we are going to cast

4:23

you off to a desert island. How

4:25

does that make you feel?

4:27

I'm ready. Yeah. Are

4:29

you good in your own company? Are you a resourceful

4:31

kind of person? I am great in my

4:33

own company. Are you? Possibly too good.

4:36

Is that such a thing? I mean, I thrive

4:37

in being alone.

4:40

OK. That's a bit strong. I like

4:42

my own company. I used to be a massive extrovert,

4:45

and I feel like I now have retained the

4:47

social skills of an extrovert, but I very much enjoy

4:49

my own company. OK, that's interesting.

4:52

Yeah. So you used to be an extrovert. Like,

4:54

when did that change? I went through a huge sort

4:56

of life change about five, six years ago,

4:59

where my faith became super

5:01

important to me. So I'm a Christian. And

5:03

that kind of changed a little bit how I live

5:05

my life. I stopped going out as much, stopped drinking, yada,

5:07

yada, yada. Not that everyone needs to.

5:10

But I think because I spent so much

5:12

of my time doing so much,

5:14

when I sort of just sat back and relaxed, I was like, oh,

5:17

I actually kind of like

5:19

peace. I like quiet. I

5:21

like being in my own company. I love seeing people,

5:23

but my comfort zone is very much my...

5:26

A little bubble. Yeah. That's so interesting to think

5:28

that that can change over time, which is

5:30

obviously... Now, you said that makes complete sense

5:32

that that can happen. You

5:35

cook for a living and are obviously very passionate

5:37

about food and what you do. But

5:39

I wondered, what does food mean to you? I

5:43

think... I mean, it sounds really

5:45

cheesy when you say it, but genuinely for me,

5:47

food is love. Like, it's

5:49

how I show love, it's how I express

5:51

love. I also love food. Like, everything

5:54

about it just

5:56

is love and is joy, like, from

5:58

the actual act of... cooking, like

6:01

the process of chopping and frying and

6:03

roasting, whatever it is. It's just

6:05

so, I don't know. It just brings me so much joy and

6:07

it makes me feel at peace. But then equally

6:09

when it becomes like a shared moment. So if I'm cooking

6:12

for you, it's because I love you. People

6:14

always ask me like, do you ever want a restaurant in the future?

6:16

And I've never really thought about that. Cause for me, food is

6:18

always about connecting with the people that I do

6:21

know. And there is this element of

6:23

like cooking for strangers, not that it's not

6:25

great, but it's not quite as special. Yeah.

6:27

Um, so yeah, long story short, food is

6:29

love. Yeah. And talking about the

6:31

different love languages, is that also how

6:34

you feel love? Like if someone coped

6:36

for you, is that a big thing for you? So

6:38

they always say that you have like love language, like how

6:40

you express and how you receive food

6:43

is how I

6:43

show love, but I feel nothing. I'm

6:47

like, oh, thank you. But I get it. I

6:52

don't know why it's not that I'm like,

6:54

I'm grateful, but it's

6:56

not my love language. It's

6:58

because their food just isn't as good

7:00

as yours. No, it could be the best

7:02

food and I'll be really grateful. But like, I

7:04

am more of like a words of affirmation gut, like give

7:07

me like a

7:07

really cute message on the board,

7:10

but give me like the best short rib and I'll be like,

7:12

thanks.

7:13

Yeah. Isn't that, I think it's so interesting

7:15

how the two aren't the same. Like how

7:17

you show is not the same as how you feel. Very

7:19

interesting. So let's dive straight

7:22

into the first desert island dish. And that's a

7:24

dish that most reminds you of your childhood. Okay.

7:27

So this one, this one's quite easy. So I

7:29

would describe it as a chicken

7:32

and tomato sauce, but really it's a Nigerian

7:34

style chicken stew, which is basically

7:37

like tomatoes, onions, bell peppers.

7:40

There's some curry powder there, some thyme for seasoning.

7:44

Um, if you're brave enough and you want to

7:46

raise your kids at Nigel, you'll

7:47

put some scotch bonnet. But like my mum was pretty,

7:49

uh,

7:50

she went pretty light on the spice when we were younger. But

7:52

I mean, well, when I say younger

7:54

below the age of five, one, five, we

7:56

were, we were better off.

7:58

And then we always had it with just white rice.

7:59

and peas. It is the first dish my mum

8:02

taught me to make and so it's the dish I associate

8:04

the most with my childhood. And so

8:06

now

8:07

are you amazing with spice? I mean

8:09

I would say that by I

8:11

mean it depends by whose standard. Okay.

8:13

By sort of average standards I'm great

8:16

with spice. Okay. By Nigerian standards

8:18

I'm okay with spice. Oh okay.

8:21

So is Nigerian food really super

8:23

spicy? I don't think I knew that. It's really

8:25

hot they just love heat so they'll add

8:27

stuff so like for example like one of Nigeria's

8:30

most famous dishes is jollof rice. It's like

8:32

a rice cooked in like

8:33

a tomato sauce and like you'll

8:35

get recipes that tell you to put one scotch bonnet but

8:37

I know people who put like six. I'm convinced my

8:39

mum doesn't have taste buds anymore because her

8:41

level of spice is just so hot. Who

8:44

needs taste buds? They're abrasive.

8:48

So do you think you do quite well in those sort

8:50

of online challenges where is it

8:52

the Dorito challenge do you think

8:55

you do pretty well? So I thought I

8:59

do well in those kinds of challenges but then

9:01

for my I think it was my 24th birthday

9:03

my sister got me the hot ones hot

9:06

sauces like the like YouTube show and

9:08

I filmed it never released it but yeah

9:11

great fine it got to eight nine

9:13

ten and

9:14

like I was a different woman like I was there

9:16

was stuff coming up out

9:18

of all parts of me I was profusely

9:21

sweating I was crying as I was crying

9:23

my tears were on fire my face was on fire everything

9:25

and I was like okay fine maybe I'm

9:27

not that like spice

9:30

your

9:30

tears being on fire is

9:31

quite painful

9:34

what's the answer milk

9:37

the answer I tried

9:39

milk but milk

9:41

it's too liquid it passes so I had to get

9:44

a tub of ice cream and just put my mouth in

9:45

it like I just stayed in the ice cream

9:48

for about 22 right

9:49

is Anna well we need to do this there's

9:51

no way you're leaving here

9:53

never never for a hard drive

9:56

viral content

9:57

at my expense

9:59

The best kind. So

10:02

you started cooking at a really young age, around

10:04

the age of seven, experimenting in the kitchen

10:06

and cooking for your family. You do have

10:08

sisters. Do they also feel the same way

10:11

about food? Because I'm so interested in the

10:13

idea of like nature versus nurture.

10:16

I think so. I've got two younger sisters. And while

10:18

we all share a love of food,

10:21

like eating food, I think I'm the only one that got

10:23

the cooking gene. Okay. My

10:25

youngest sister, so she's actually just moved out to

10:27

America. Shout out to her. She's super

10:29

smart. She's doing an MBA at Stanford. Oh, wow. And

10:32

she's like, I

10:33

haven't cooked in like years because of you. And

10:35

now it's really stressful. I'm not enjoying it. This is

10:37

so long. And

10:38

then my middle sister, I'd say she enjoys it a little

10:41

bit more. But again, they don't have that

10:43

sort of like, yeah, let's

10:45

cook. Yeah. More like, okay, I'll cook because

10:47

I have to. I wonder if they would have done if you

10:49

haven't shown an interest and that kind of became

10:52

your thing at home. Or maybe. So

10:54

my sisters and I were all really different. So

10:56

I'm the eldest. Maybe the

10:59

bossiest. But then I feel

11:01

like if they really like if they

11:03

liked it, there was no like, there was never

11:05

like that was the face for that. Like, I would have always been fine. I

11:08

think I almost because when I was a kid, I loved

11:10

doing it together. Like my favorite things

11:12

we would like cooked together. I grew

11:14

up in the 90s. We had those I don't know if anyone remembers

11:16

those like Tom and Jerry cupcake things. I

11:19

feel like the paper, like the paper little stickers. So

11:21

we do that together. And that was really fun. And

11:24

so I used to love cooking with them. But then I

11:26

hit sort of like 12. And I was like, no, this

11:29

is my thing. You said

11:31

that you started cooking at the age of seven, but you

11:33

actually got good at cooking when you were 17. Where

11:36

did you find this is quite literally what I said.

11:38

Vibation. Why did you find that? I

11:42

take my research very seriously.

11:45

But I wondered reading that how do you define

11:48

good at cooking? I

11:50

just I'm good at cooking by making meals that

11:52

people actually enjoy. Okay. I think

11:54

I made it 10 years before it was inedible.

11:57

I mean, no, that would be I'd have moments, right?

11:59

Like I.

11:59

I do this thing kind of like how I am with

12:02

music where like I find a song and I like rinse

12:04

it, I'm obsessed and then I kind of get bored of it. I

12:06

had the same thing

12:07

when I was younger. So I'd master like one or

12:09

two dishes and I'd run that for like four months.

12:11

So

12:11

like my friend's mom taught me to

12:13

make a vanilla souffle. We had a vanilla souffle for a year.

12:16

My uncle taught me how to make mussels. We had mussels for it.

12:18

So like, this is the one thing

12:20

I knew how to do. I did well, but it was the

12:23

experimenting

12:24

where it got a little bit more dicey. And

12:27

I think also because I wasn't cooking consistently

12:29

I think you have to do something consistently any way to get

12:31

good. And it wasn't until I was

12:33

sort of 16 that I started cooking consistently because

12:35

I started cooking in school and

12:38

for my friends and every day and that's where.

12:40

Yeah, I think the skills started

12:42

to flourish. Definitely. And

12:44

despite this obvious love of food

12:46

and cooking you didn't immediately go into the

12:48

world of cooking. I think you've said that it was

12:50

a passion but it was never a goal to turn

12:52

it into a job. And I wanted to ask about

12:55

that. Were you worried doing it as a job

12:57

would make you less passionate about it?

12:59

Or was it just not something that you ever considered

13:02

doing professionally? I think it was

13:04

just never a professional consideration.

13:07

I think growing up I wanted to be

13:09

lots of different things but by the time I got to sort

13:11

of my late teens I

13:14

thought I wanted to be in finance. Okay.

13:17

I was like, cool, I'll be in finance. You thought you wanted to be in

13:19

finance or you thought that's what was expected

13:21

of you? No, so my parents were super chill.

13:23

There was never any expectation. They

13:26

were probably too kind to me. It

13:28

was more in terms of what I wanted for myself or

13:30

what I thought I wanted for myself. I think because social

13:32

media didn't exist. The only, I guess

13:35

Korean food that I saw was either you

13:37

were gonna be sort of a restaurant chef which

13:39

I always knew I never wanted to be or

13:42

you became like a Nigella or a Jamie

13:44

Oliver and you had this great TV career.

13:46

And I was like, I couldn't even dream that big.

13:48

Though saying that, that's a lie. Cause

13:50

when I was very, very young and I was eight I did say I

13:52

wanted to be not the next Jamie Oliver better

13:55

than the next Jamie Oliver, whatever that meant. But

13:57

my mum loves to tell that story.

13:59

So yeah, I just, I never thought it could be and therefore

14:02

it never was a consideration, but

14:04

because it was something that I loved to do and spent so much

14:06

time doing it, there was always gonna be a little

14:08

something on the side that was gonna be dedicated to that. I

14:11

just didn't know that social media would come

14:13

in and fill that void. I know, it's

14:15

changed the landscape so much. Let's

14:18

pause there and talk about the second desert island

14:20

dish. What's the first dish you learned to cook? The

14:24

first dish I learned, so I

14:26

feel like I learned two dishes at the same time. So

14:28

on the one hand, I learned my mom's

14:31

chicken stew that I talked about earlier,

14:33

but then on the other hand, I also learned how to make

14:35

a lasagna. That was like the first thing we made

14:37

together. And I say lasagna, it wasn't

14:39

like a homemade lasagna. It was

14:42

like a jarred bechamel. I

14:45

browned my own mints, like we did that, but

14:47

it was like a jarred tomato sauce.

14:49

No Parmesan to be seen. I think it was like cheddar

14:51

or whatever it was. And

14:53

at the time I thought, I was like, yeah, great.

14:56

Yeah, because I mean, a lasagna is a labor

14:58

of love. Yeah, and it's like big and impressive

15:00

and it felt great. It

15:02

wasn't always great. Sometimes the

15:04

lasagna sheets were super crunchy and sometimes

15:07

it was really liquid, but it was always a fun

15:10

sort of afternoon activity. And

15:12

so thinking about the two dishes that you've

15:14

chosen, one being very traditional

15:17

British food and one being very traditional Nigerian

15:19

food, was that the food that you grew up with

15:21

that was just a mix of the two? I

15:24

think it was definitely a mix. I

15:27

wouldn't say we ate a lot of traditional Nigerian food

15:29

other than sort of like the chicken stew and the jollof

15:31

rice. I didn't really eat more than

15:34

that. But on the other side, I also

15:36

didn't grow up eating particularly like

15:38

British foods, like shepherd's pie or whatever.

15:40

I know you don't like shepherd's pie. I don't.

15:43

I don't even try this at home. Because I don't

15:45

like mashed potatoes. I think they're like...

15:47

What? They're like the most least enjoyable

15:50

form of potato. Like, you wanna... I

15:52

know. Why would you want to eat a paste? Sorry.

15:55

Sorry. Weird mashed potato is 50% butter.

15:57

So, yeah.

17:59

into food, I guess. I think so.

18:02

I think by the very nature of

18:04

who I am, I am, you know, half Nigerian,

18:06

half Cameroonian, grew up

18:08

here in London.

18:10

And

18:11

while just always this idea of celebrating

18:14

flavors and foods from all over the world, but

18:16

doing it in a way that like, you

18:19

can still honor those cultures, I think

18:21

from a very sort of earlier

18:23

on, not young, but like

18:25

in my twenties or as social media was sort of booming,

18:28

I found myself getting frustrated sometimes

18:31

when I'd be scrolling and I'd see something called

18:33

sort of Asian salmon, and it would

18:35

be like ketchup and soy sauce and the presence of soy

18:38

sauce made it Asian. And the more I sort

18:40

of got frustrated, I sort of asked myself, why? And

18:42

yeah, just, I think that's kind of where it stemmed

18:45

from because I don't think I

18:47

cook specifically authentic dishes.

18:49

However, I

18:50

think it's important to know where food

18:53

came from, where ingredients came from, and you

18:55

can use them in any which type of way you want, but just

18:57

acknowledge where they came from and just

18:59

celebrate that, credit where credit

19:01

is due. Yeah, because there's so much conversation

19:04

now about cultural or about culture

19:06

in general, and then particularly

19:08

in the world of food, cultural appropriation

19:11

when it comes to different dishes. But

19:13

something that I definitely noticed, I don't know if you've

19:15

noticed too, but on a

19:18

particular post that might be proving to be

19:20

slightly controversial, someone will say, this

19:23

isn't actually what you're saying, it is, it's a

19:25

local dish from where I grew up. And

19:27

then someone else will say, actually, no, it's

19:29

from where I grew up. And just connecting

19:32

those dots is so interesting, the way that food

19:34

travels and the way people create their

19:36

own dishes. And I guess it's a constant

19:39

evolving process, isn't it? Yeah,

19:41

I mean, we talk about the

19:43

fact that we are in like a globalized era,

19:45

but there has always been a degree

19:48

of movement, at least in our sort of most

19:50

recent modern history, whether it

19:52

was colonialism, whatever it was, there

19:54

was always movement and there were always

19:56

different peoples and tribes. And

19:59

as...

21:47

a

22:00

crispy lamb dish with coriander,

22:03

garlic, and these

22:05

other flavors that I don't really know what they

22:07

were, but

22:08

it was the best thing that has ever

22:11

entered my mouth. I have never, to this

22:13

day, I'm now 30. This is 16

22:16

years ago. I still remember it, and

22:18

nothing beats that. There was also on the side

22:20

a really simple egg white fried rice,

22:23

but it was the best fried rice I've ever had in my life. I

22:25

don't have the words

22:25

to express how great that meal was,

22:27

so that is... I'm getting a feeling of it. Do

22:29

you feel like in a way it's kind of good that place

22:32

doesn't exist anymore? Because if you went back,

22:35

would it be the same?

22:36

I think that if I went

22:38

back, I

22:39

would probably be disappointed.

22:40

I dreamed about this for 16 years. It's

22:43

too much pressure. It could never

22:45

live. That is a really long time. Was

22:48

it... Do you think it was purely

22:50

the food, or was it anything

22:52

to do with who you were with and

22:54

the occasion, or was it purely...? It

22:57

was purely the food. I remember

23:00

it was a great sort of time.

23:02

It was celebrating my dad's best over 40 years.

23:04

Everyone there was quite old, I wasn't there for the people.

23:07

Maybe that was part of it, Zenna. You

23:09

just managed to focus on the food.

23:12

Sorry, Dad. The land I'm

23:14

just really bored. Your

23:18

big break into the world of food, I

23:20

think, came with the great cookbook challenge

23:23

for which was a Bake Off-style

23:25

show where people were competing to pitch their

23:27

idea of a cookbook and get it published. How

23:30

did that come about? How did

23:32

you get involved? It was sort of...

23:34

It was 2021. I was sort

23:36

of minding my own business on summer holiday,

23:39

and I got a DM saying that there's a show that

23:41

they were piloting, and we'd love for you to

23:43

apply.

23:44

At this point, there was no... It didn't have a name. It

23:46

also didn't have Jamie Oliver's name attached to it. So

23:49

I was like, whatever, I've got nothing to lose. So

23:51

I applied, and I went through the various stages. And

23:54

ironically, the application for that show, you had

23:56

to sort of pitch your concept, and my

23:58

concept was all around...

23:59

cultural appropriation and

24:01

my thoughts on that have sort

24:03

of developed but in in

24:05

it was sort of in its infancy and

24:08

again I did not know that this would be a show presented

24:10

by Jamie Oliver so I wrote

24:12

my whole application because I talked

24:15

about cultural appropriation and I used that chicken

24:18

I talked about the John

24:19

Offrite as a John Offrite which

24:22

and I love Jamie Oliver I need to say that he knows

24:24

I love Jamie Oliver but the that recipe

24:26

I remember back in the day on Twitter like it kind

24:29

of went

24:29

it popped off because it was there were loads of ingredients

24:31

that you wouldn't normally find and I also

24:33

brought up these rice and peas there are a few other there

24:35

are a few other ones and so I mentioned that as a

24:38

not as sort of as a point of hate but as a point

24:40

of this is what sort of has

24:42

happened and I think that there are different ways of doing

24:45

this and then I submit

24:47

my application and a week later they announced that it's a

24:49

Jamie Oliver show and I was like oh it's great

24:51

like he's gonna hate me I'm not

24:53

gonna get on but thankfully he

24:56

didn't actually read the application. I think

24:58

someone told the producers told me someone

25:00

told him and thankfully

25:01

he found it funny like he's a great guy so

25:03

like there's no effort.

25:05

So still good to the stage. Imagine that thinking

25:07

feeling where you're just like no. Yeah

25:09

and he was like my

25:10

biggest idol as a kid so I was like well this

25:13

is I just ruined that.

25:15

This is a primetime TV show

25:17

with one of the most famous chefs in the world were

25:19

you nervous or did that side

25:22

of things come easily? So

25:24

I thought I'd be really nervous but

25:26

I wasn't and I think that it's because

25:30

so it was the show was that it was a sort

25:32

of co-produced by two production companies

25:34

Plumb Productions and then Jamie Oliver Productions and they

25:37

were so good about making everyone feel so

25:40

comfortable that like there was

25:42

no issue. I felt like I was

25:44

with

25:44

people that cared like genuinely and I think that

25:47

that made a big difference because I up

25:49

until that point I think I hadn't really shown my

25:51

face ever because I was quite scared

25:53

because people on the internet were really mean so it was like very much

25:55

my food did all the talking but

25:57

they made it really

25:59

comfortable. And it's I think because of my

26:01

experience on that show that I then applied to do

26:03

more and have become more of a personal

26:06

mind social media, because I was like, it sort of demystified

26:08

the whole thing and made it a lot less scary. That's

26:10

interesting. So when you started out, you were

26:14

you weren't like forward facing and you

26:16

were nervous. And that's because of how

26:18

the internet can be. Yeah.

26:21

So you weren't scared to put your work out there, but

26:23

somehow putting your face to it made it scarier. Yeah.

26:25

Because I think that it's one thing if someone's like, oh,

26:27

your chicken looks dry. First of all, my chicken's

26:30

never dry. So I'm good. You can say that. But

26:32

I know that my chicken's not dry. And

26:34

if it becomes about you, then it hurts more. And

26:36

I think I've now obviously developed tougher

26:39

skin. But back in the day, like I wasn't

26:41

ready for that. So I think for the first

26:44

sort of I think it was two years of having my social

26:46

media account. I didn't show my face

26:48

or my hat of photography. And

26:50

then I sort of posted a picture. I was like, hi, this is me. And everyone's

26:52

like, oh, my God, wow, you're a black woman. I

26:54

was like, yeah, I'm a black woman. Hi.

26:57

No one had any idea. And like you sort of until

27:00

someone shows you who they are, you, I guess, create

27:03

a little idea in your head. Isn't that so interesting

27:05

that you can do that from photographs of food?

27:07

Yeah. Like even with something like that, you form

27:09

a picture in your mind, which is such a strange

27:12

thing to think about. When you say

27:14

that they made you feel really comfortable with the filming

27:16

and all of that, when you watch the edit,

27:19

did you feel the same way? Oh,

27:21

gosh. Watching your back was hard.

27:23

And to this day, like I even like when

27:26

I was so excited to do the Lorraine stuff. But

27:28

I've only watched one. I get really cringed out

27:30

watching myself. And I think you were really good.

27:32

Thank you. The show was

27:35

it was difficult to watch because I

27:37

know how emotional I got. Like I was

27:39

comfortable. I also cried every episode. So watching

27:41

being like, how much of my tears

27:43

are we going to show today? And they were really,

27:46

really, you're not really a crier.

27:48

Oh, I am. I pretend I'm not. I

27:50

cry. I'm

27:51

like, what kind of stuff makes you cry? Well,

27:54

I enjoy cry slash emotional cry more.

27:56

So like when I laugh too hard, I cry all the time. So

27:58

like a John Lewis Christmas.

27:59

crying.

28:00

Like, you're only human.

28:02

I'm only human. So, um,

28:04

but I think because the show, it

28:07

was so great, but it was also, it was just a little

28:09

bit surreal. Jamie Oliver on the show was our

28:11

mentor and for so much of

28:13

it and so much, it never made it to air. Like he would

28:15

stop filming and actually just have conversations and

28:18

actually help and actually build relationships with people.

28:20

And so I think I was just so like, how

28:22

is this my life that like,

28:24

I just kept crying. I was like, how is it? It was, it

28:27

wasn't that it was sad. It was just like,

28:29

how am I here? So like almost in a way

28:31

quite overwhelming. Yeah. And so now

28:34

would you consider Jamie Oliver a friend?

28:36

Yeah. Yeah. How cool is that?

28:38

Yeah. Great

28:39

guy. Then we're on to the most

28:41

important question of the day. Okay. What

28:44

is your favorite sandwich?

28:46

Okay. So my favorite sandwich, this

28:48

varies

28:49

by the season. So if you'd

28:51

asked me this in the summer, it had a bit of different

28:53

answer, but now that I'm sort of leaning into

28:56

comfy, cozy, hearty foods.

28:58

Yeah. So it's actually inspired by an old

29:01

Carluccio sandwich. I don't think they do anymore,

29:03

but it's basically a like crispy

29:06

chicken, crispy Milanese style chicken

29:08

sandwich. So you've got ciabatta, which for me

29:10

is one of the best breads of all time. Black pepper

29:13

mayo. So just like mayo with loads of black pepper, crispy

29:15

chicken Milanese fillet

29:17

thing,

29:18

crispy pancetta, rocket

29:20

tomatoes, sandwiched in together, crispy,

29:23

crunchy,

29:24

juicy, salty,

29:25

delicious.

29:28

So good. So good. I feel a bit speechless.

29:32

How often do you think you have that sandwich?

29:35

So, um,

29:37

in the last 10 years, I've had it once. And

29:39

it's my

29:42

favorite. So I don't actually

29:44

get this sometimes, you know, when you have like a

29:45

favorite something, but it's like

29:46

it too much. No, but it's just so much work.

29:49

I did it once for a video and I had to re-film

29:51

it like three times and I

29:52

haven't made it soon. Because it was so much

29:55

work. I wish they would just sell

29:57

it again so I could have it, but I don't want to make

29:59

it.

30:00

I really wasn't expecting that as an

30:02

answer.

30:02

That's absolutely no. I say when

30:04

I cry and I laugh.

30:05

And yes, we've got evidence. You've

30:08

got evidence. She does not lie. OK,

30:10

so it's your favorite sandwich, and you like

30:12

it so much you've had it once in 10 years,

30:15

once ever, aside from the

30:17

collage years. So when I was like a teenager,

30:19

I had it every Friday. OK. I

30:21

should have said that. OK. Only

30:25

a minute. Yeah.

30:27

So like, well, your question was, what's

30:29

your favorite sandwich, right? There's

30:31

no judgment. I'm just drilling down

30:34

into the full answer. If

30:37

you want to know my most eaten sandwich, what's

30:39

the answer to that? It's

30:41

a grilled cheese, because it's simple. I love

30:43

a sandwich, but the idea of spending a lot

30:45

of time making a sandwich

30:47

kind of, to me, defeats the point.

30:50

One of the things I love about going to America is that

30:52

they take sandwich culture so seriously

30:54

that you can get a great sandwich in the

30:56

way that

30:58

I don't think you can get here, except for certain

31:00

specific

31:01

spots. The average sandwich in

31:03

the UK isn't, to me, as exciting as

31:05

a US deli

31:07

style sandwich. What's your secret

31:09

to the best grilled

31:10

cheese? So

31:13

I think my secrets

31:13

aren't particularly unique. So mayo

31:16

on the outside so it gets crispy. Mayo

31:18

over butter. Over butter, but I put butter inside,

31:21

because butter is flavor. I just don't want my butter

31:23

to burn. Mayo on the outside, butter

31:25

on the inside, cheese. Also,

31:29

and I got this from Chris

31:31

Morocco, from Bon Appetit. If

31:33

you add really, really thinly sliced,

31:35

or even like mandolin,

31:38

shallot slices,

31:39

you get just a little

31:42

bit of oniony goodness. Raw.

31:45

But it's thin enough, because you're putting it at the

31:47

top.

31:48

The heat coming through is enough

31:51

to almost steam it a little bit, so you don't get like

31:53

a raw bite, but it has to be super thin.

31:56

Okay, that's a great tip. And

31:59

you said you had a side. sandwich. What is

32:01

your summer sandwich that you've had once in

32:03

the last 20 years? So my summer sandwich I actually

32:05

have at least, I think

32:07

I just don't really eat sandwiches very much. I had it

32:09

twice a summer, which as a number,

32:13

I mean the summer is quite short here so that

32:15

could be quite often.

32:16

But it's a marinated aubergine

32:18

sandwich. So I roast aubergine

32:21

rounds like quite thick, really

32:23

like sort of hard and fast, they get really charred and like

32:25

gooey on the outside and gooey in the middle. And

32:28

then I dry roast it so no oil,

32:30

no salt, no nothing. And

32:32

then you make a marinade with olive oil,

32:34

preserved

32:36

lemons, basil, parsley, garlic,

32:38

sort of all the fun stuff with a bit of that brine.

32:41

Toss the aubergines in there, let them sit for

32:43

like an hour. And then you load that into ciabatta

32:45

with some tomatoes, like good summer tomatoes,

32:47

mozzarella, rocket. Again

32:50

in a ciabatta because I think ciabatta is one of the best breads in the

32:52

world. So good. So with cooking

32:54

in general, do you ever feel like

32:56

that? That it can take a very

32:59

long time and then it's

33:01

gone in a matter of seconds? Or

33:03

is it very sandwich specific that you feel

33:05

like that? I think it's so much specific.

33:07

Some people

33:09

hate sort of long recipes.

33:10

I don't mind a long recipe. I love, the

33:12

act of cooking is what I love. For whatever

33:14

reason, apply it to a sandwich. And I'm like, oh, that

33:16

was a lot of work. I think maybe I ate my sandwiches

33:18

too quickly. Maybe that's what it is, Anna. Yeah.

33:21

I need to slow down. Slow down. Maybe if I used a cutlery

33:23

and like made it an experience, I would have my

33:26

favourite sandwich once a year.

33:28

I do appreciate a sandwich that requires

33:31

cutlery because you just know it's not messing around.

33:33

I'm just a serious girl.

33:35

I

33:37

read something you said where you were talking about the

33:39

more you experimented in the kitchen, the better

33:41

you got. And as you improved, so

33:44

did your knack for pairing flavours. And

33:46

I wanted to talk about that because of the way cooking

33:48

is viewed from the rise of social media

33:50

and cooking shows and all of those things. There

33:53

is this kind of expectation that you're either a good

33:55

cook or you're not. And

33:57

that some people think that they're a bad

33:59

cook. But the reality is it's just a skill

34:02

that needs honing and you need to practice. Yes.

34:05

I think that everyone has the ability

34:07

to be a good cook. Do you think that's true?

34:09

But not everyone has the ability to be a great

34:12

cook. Okay. This is maybe controversial,

34:14

but I'm going to, I'm going to liken it to driving. I

34:17

think that there are certain people who

34:19

are just naturally born great

34:21

drivers. And there are others who

34:23

just really aren't and that's okay.

34:27

Um,

34:28

and you can, you know, you can all be good

34:30

drivers and that you can all eventually pass your test,

34:32

but some of you won't be driving

34:34

as well as the others. And I think cooking

34:37

is kind of like that where like you,

34:39

like any skill, the more you do it, the better

34:42

you get. But I don't know.

34:44

I think there's something,

34:46

there has to be an innate love of food, kind

34:48

of there. And that if that doesn't

34:50

exist, then like,

34:52

you're never going to be great because unless

34:54

you love it, you're not going to try and be great. You're not

34:56

going to try and learn more. You're not going to push yourself.

34:59

I think I definitely would agree with that. I don't

35:01

think there's such

35:02

a thing as a bad cook, but

35:06

there is if you don't

35:08

love cooking and if you don't love eating, cause

35:10

you can never be a great cook.

35:12

If you don't enjoy eating facts.

35:15

I asked someone else that recently, whether

35:18

they've ever met like a very high end,

35:20

like Michelin starred chef who just

35:22

wasn't really passionate about food. And

35:24

the answer was yes, because

35:26

you can be technical and you can get

35:28

to that level.

35:30

But it will always be missing something because you

35:32

don't actually care. But

35:34

can we liken that to driving, Zenna? I

35:36

think that's quite a weird

35:39

analogy. Do you not

35:41

ever be great at driving

35:42

if you love driving? I

35:44

think so. Do you think so?

35:46

I would say I am an excellent driver.

35:49

But you hate it. I

35:51

mean, I get

35:55

very passionate when I'm driving. Okay,

35:57

fine. I'm with you.

35:59

I think great drivers do. So I'm gonna

36:02

put us in that category. Okay, yes, that's true. How

36:04

many times did it take you to pass your driving test? First

36:06

time. Oh, I

36:09

would say that actually

36:11

the worst drivers are the ones who pass

36:13

first time. Because if you think

36:15

about it, you kind of had the least number

36:17

of lessons. Whereas

36:21

it took me five goes to pass. That

36:24

is a lot of lessons. That is also a lot

36:26

of time. Right. I

36:29

think that really stood me in good stead. So one

36:31

of my really

36:32

close friends also took five

36:34

times

36:34

to pass a test. And to this day,

36:36

people

36:37

don't get in the car because

36:39

they're like, for it took you that long.

36:41

I think by the first time they were like, okay, we feel bad

36:43

for her. Let's just

36:45

like

36:46

give her the license. Yeah, I think actually

36:49

my final test when I passed

36:51

was definitely the worst one I'd done. But I think the

36:53

instructor was just like, oh my goodness,

36:55

this girl, like we can't, this is

36:57

embarrassing now. Have you

37:00

ever had any cooking disasters? So

37:02

many. Because it's part of the process. It's

37:04

part of the process. But I think people are a bit

37:06

scared of cooking in that sense. And if

37:08

they have a disaster, it can kind of

37:11

put them off. But I think it's comforting to know

37:13

that really great cook, it

37:15

is just part of it. And even now, not everything

37:18

will go to plan. No, and that's okay. And that's

37:20

okay. There are two, like

37:21

I like to think of myself as like a pretty

37:23

good cook. Hopefully it's my job.

37:26

But there are two

37:26

dishes that like when I make, it

37:29

could go either way. The first is fried chicken. My

37:31

fried chicken is not great. I

37:33

don't know why. I've been trying to perfect

37:36

like a fried chicken recipe to put out on the internet

37:38

for

37:39

four years now. Oh, still not out because

37:42

it's good, but it's not great. And

37:44

then second is tiramisu. I make

37:46

both the world's best. And I know

37:48

you're triggered. And we'll let you make that

37:51

on purpose. I did, I did. Please, please, please

37:53

tell us what happened when you made the tiramisu.

37:56

I don't want to talk about it. This is about

37:58

you and your disaster.

37:59

We can share it on Zoster. My

38:02

tiramisu is either the best thing

38:03

in the world or the worst. Like when it goes to plan,

38:06

I make an excellent tiramisu.

38:07

And then sometimes it's just like, if I'm trying to do

38:09

too much, if I'm under pressure, either

38:12

I will over whip the mascarpone mix and

38:14

then I have to start again, cause it starts to like curdle and like get

38:16

into like butter slash buttermilk territory.

38:19

Or like for whatever reason, I will have like over

38:21

soaked my biscuit, whatever it is. Sometimes it just

38:23

doesn't. And I have to start from scratch, that's the whole thing.

38:26

But yeah, I know you can relate and I

38:28

can heavily relate and now we'll

38:30

move on. The

38:33

fifth of the island dish. What's the dish you

38:35

eat the most often? The dish I

38:37

eat the most

38:37

often is probably a dal. Like in the colder

38:39

months, I make dal at least once a week, some kind of dal,

38:42

whether it's like a sort of taka, which

38:44

I say wrong, I know,

38:45

but I don't know how to pronounce that sort

38:47

of

38:48

genetically or like a sort of coconut-y

38:50

one. Like I have dal a lot. And then

38:53

closely followed by salmon. I feel like I'm always,

38:55

just like a piece of roast salmon. Which is like

38:57

an easy thing to do. Because as much as I

38:59

spend so much time cooking for content when I'm just

39:01

sort of cooking for dinner or something simple, I just like

39:04

put a piece of salmon in the air fryer and like call it a day.

39:06

Because I was gonna ask that. So I think you film

39:09

three days out of the week.

39:11

And on those days, you're obviously producing a lot of food.

39:14

Do you then get to the end of that day and then cook

39:16

yourself supper? Or are you eating

39:19

what you've cooked? Because sometimes

39:21

if I've been, whether it's for

39:24

a catering job or whether it's for online

39:26

content, sometimes I can't

39:29

look at the food. So yeah, what

39:31

is that? I don't know. I'm

39:33

the same. I'm like, I can have it the next day.

39:35

As my leftovers, like once I've like, a degree

39:37

of separation between me and the food, fine. Also,

39:40

I think as I eat as I go, I'm actually not that

39:42

hungry by the end of it. So I'll have something really small. I

39:44

always have some kind of frozen dumpling, either homemade

39:47

or from like, I think it's ajiminota.

39:50

I can't remember. It's a Japanese brand, they're great.

39:53

And chicken tenders, because I'm a first year old woman

39:55

that still eats chicken tenders. As in like

39:57

breadcrumbed ones. Like breadcrumb, yeah, like

39:59

frozen ones. months. Yeah. So I'll have like that in peace

40:02

and call it a day. Yeah. I think that's

40:04

very common. Like if you speak to any restaurant

40:06

chef, they come home and they're having

40:09

microwave meal or a takeaway. Have

40:11

you seen Boiling Points? Yeah. Wow.

40:13

Such a good film. And yeah, they're working in this amazing

40:16

restaurant creating this beautiful food and they literally

40:18

go home and have a really sad looking

40:21

microwave meal because that's just all

40:23

you have left in you. Yeah. You've said that

40:26

when you're creating recipes, the

40:28

most important thing that you think about

40:30

is texture and that you think

40:32

that's the difference between a good plate

40:34

of food and a really great plate of food.

40:37

Talk to me about that. So I was trying

40:39

to explain this to someone the other day. When you eat something

40:42

and like it's all the same texture, chef

40:44

is pie. I was saying chef is pie. Yeah.

40:47

It's all kind of soft. It's all

40:49

kind of mushy. And therefore

40:52

as you're eating, it's tasty at first, but

40:54

like there's no other sort of level of excitement

40:56

that comes. Whereas if you have a dish that's like, it's

40:59

got some soft elements and crunchy, every

41:01

bite is kind of like a new experience. And I feel like it

41:03

keeps you like interested,

41:05

interested. So that's what I mean. Like

41:08

I can do a whole plate of like just pasta

41:10

and sauce. Like it doesn't have to have texture, but if it can,

41:12

I think it makes it a little bit more exciting. So

41:15

it can often be about the finishing touches, like

41:17

adding something. Yeah. There's something really simple,

41:19

like

41:20

sesame seeds, sunflower seeds, whatever it is,

41:22

just anything broken. Or

41:24

even like it doesn't have to be crispy. It can

41:26

be like a crunch, like a pickle or like just

41:29

something to break up whatever

41:31

the dominant sort of theme in that dish

41:34

is. What they've done, like studies

41:36

in it, and it is, it's not just about

41:38

texture, but it's just about contrast. Exactly.

41:42

And they have actually done studies where

41:45

I think it was specifically, they did

41:47

it with pastries. They'd give someone a

41:49

pastry, they'd raise it out of 10, and then they

41:51

give them the exact same pastry, but pretend

41:53

it was different, but in a paper bag. And

41:56

the ruffle of the paper bag made

41:59

that pastry.

41:59

taste a million times

42:01

better. Oh, interesting. It's been really interesting.

42:03

But it just shows there are so many different elements

42:06

at play when you're eating, which I guess

42:08

is what Heston built his

42:10

whole career off, you know, being

42:12

blindfolded as you're eating and how that affects

42:15

the way that you taste it. Yeah. That's

42:17

so interesting. Creating these

42:19

recipes online, have

42:21

you ever been surprised by

42:24

what food people respond to

42:26

the best? I'm consistently surprised.

42:28

Are you? Well, not in as

42:30

much as like what people relate to.

42:33

I think there's a mistake, I think, in

42:35

sort of correlating

42:37

dishes that or posts that go viral

42:39

with like, that's your best food or what

42:41

people relate to more. I think there's

42:44

like two levels to it. There's the algorithm doing its thing

42:46

and just pushing out to more people and therefore

42:48

more people are seeing it. It doesn't necessarily

42:50

mean that it's the best that you've put out. Like there

42:53

are recipes that I've put out that I'm like, this

42:55

is the best thing in the world. And it hasn't

42:57

become popular, but that's purely because social

43:00

media didn't sort of give it that air

43:02

time. Yeah. So it's like trying

43:04

to find the balance between that.

43:07

But then there's also something going viral

43:09

for a reason. So there's obviously something

43:11

there. So some things that

43:13

are really popular make sense to me. So like

43:16

recently I did a

43:18

gotchajang butter onion thing that's been doing

43:20

really well. That made sense to me because

43:22

I thought the video was good, but also it was really simple.

43:24

It was

43:25

four ingredients, ingredients you probably have

43:27

at home fine. But

43:29

then if I look at

43:30

another dish that did really well for me was I

43:32

did like a taco roasted cauliflower that was delicious,

43:35

but it's so many elements, so many ingredients.

43:37

Like when you think about it, like it really

43:39

shouldn't have sort of popped off the way that it would,

43:42

because not only did it have a long ingredient

43:44

list, it had ingredients that you traditionally wouldn't have

43:46

in your kitchen, but somehow that

43:48

works. So I don't know what exactly it is sometimes,

43:51

but sometimes it makes sense. And then other

43:53

times you're like,

43:54

I've seen a really big,

43:56

as in very successful food creator

43:58

in America say that she. was

44:00

consistently getting a lot of views and

44:02

doing really well and her audience was growing

44:05

but then she jumped on one of the viral trends

44:08

and everything exploded and

44:10

obviously that was good because she got more followers

44:13

but she actually found that really hard to reconcile

44:15

because that's not what she wanted to

44:17

be known for and it's a fine

44:20

line isn't it between creating things that

44:22

you think

44:23

people are gonna

44:24

like obviously because that's why you're doing it

44:27

but that versus something going

44:29

viral and I guess ultimately

44:32

you always have to be able to defend

44:34

every recipe that you put out and be passionate

44:36

about it yourself yeah otherwise

44:38

yeah getting famous for the wrong thing

44:41

is I don't know kind of confusing in your own mind

44:43

maybe yeah it also then pigeon holds

44:45

you in a way that you might not want to be because if you

44:48

go viral for something that like isn't

44:51

sort of natural to what you make or how you cook

44:53

yeah there is then an expectation to continue

44:55

doing that to retain that audience yeah

44:58

and so do you quote unquote set out to yourself and

45:00

do that and make not set up but make food that you're not

45:02

really passionate about and

45:03

keep the algorithm happy and keep growing

45:05

or do

45:06

you do what you love but then suddenly

45:09

you have this like spike and that that's

45:11

not what they're there for that's not for this very specific

45:13

thing so I think I have friends who that's happened

45:15

to and it's it's tricky like you

45:17

want your work to be recognized there's nothing wrong with that

45:19

but when it you get recognized the stuff

45:22

that's actually yours not yours but

45:24

comes from you know some creative

45:26

part in you that you're really proud of then like that's

45:28

the ideal yeah that's got to be

45:30

the best feeling hmm have you ever

45:32

made something that's

45:34

really incredibly

45:35

delicious

45:37

but it just doesn't come across like that on the

45:39

video and you just wish if you could serve

45:42

all of these people this dish they would

45:44

think it was the best thing they'd ever tasted but

45:47

it just doesn't come across like that all

45:49

the time very frustrating and I

45:51

think it's now to the point where like when I recipe

45:53

I'd like come up with recipe ideas it's I

45:56

I'm thinking because my main sort of

45:58

medium is video So I don't,

46:01

I don't bother wasting time on stuff that I know

46:03

won't look good. I may have the best recipes, but

46:05

I might save that for a newsletter or

46:07

for a magazine or whatever it might be. It

46:10

just makes no sense for me to put so

46:12

much effort into something that I know just

46:14

is going to flop.

46:15

It's not because it's bad, but it's because not

46:18

everything is meant for every platform,

46:20

every media, every stream.

46:22

And that's okay. It's just recognizing what

46:24

works with

46:26

whatever it is that you're doing at the time and

46:29

using your energies wisely. Yeah. I think that's

46:31

a good motto. That's okay. Okay.

46:34

The sixth desert island dish, Zenna, what's your

46:36

go to dinner party dish? So my

46:39

go to dinner party dish has to be

46:41

my pork and prawn wontons. They're

46:43

really good. And then I make them with a homemade chili

46:46

crisp, because I'm kind of obsessed with like homemade

46:48

chili oils. And so do you get

46:50

to throw many dinner parties? I do.

46:53

I do a lot of dinner parties recently a

46:55

lot. Like last week I did three, which was not planned.

46:57

That was a heavy dinner party

46:59

week. But no, I like hosting. Um,

47:02

and you often do

47:04

a pudding.

47:05

I always do a pudding. However,

47:09

I feel like my strengths in

47:11

the food world lie in the savory.

47:12

So really, and truly I have two

47:15

desserts and

47:17

it's tiramisu, which goes either really great

47:19

or not great. Or it's back clever. That's

47:21

it.

47:21

Yeah. Well, those are two great ones.

47:23

They're very good. On desert island

47:26

dishes, we have a cookbook corner. I'd love

47:28

to know what is your most treasured cookbook?

47:30

So I need to preface my answer

47:33

in saying that controversially,

47:35

given sort of what I've been doing with my life, I'm

47:38

not a big cookbook user.

47:41

And it's not that I don't love cookbooks. I think because

47:43

I'm constantly having to create content,

47:46

I don't get as much time to consume it as

47:48

I'd like. So that's my sort of

47:51

context. But my favorite cookbook recently

47:53

is Meska by Easter

47:55

Belfridge. That

47:57

woman and the way she pairs flavors.

47:59

it's

48:01

I actually don't have the words her I need

48:03

to

48:03

try the prawn lasagna lasagna is one

48:05

of the best things I've ever eaten okay like it's try

48:07

it so good so yeah that is

48:09

my excellent

48:09

topic Susanna I can't

48:12

believe it but we're on to the final seventh

48:14

desert island dish what is the last dish you

48:16

would choose to eat before being cast off to the

48:18

desert island I should also say

48:20

at this point you are allowed several courses

48:23

ah okay well I thought it was just

48:25

the one and when I did think it was

48:27

the one it's just one big

48:30

giant plate of McDonald's chips Oh

48:33

just chips skinny

48:36

salt ketchup perfection perfection

48:38

like that isn't what I expected

48:40

you to say I have to admit it's

48:43

rogue but I'm also the type of person like

48:45

I just I think chips are single-handedly

48:48

one of the best foods in the world like a good skinny

48:50

fry that's perfectly salty and

48:52

crispy is just like a beautiful

48:55

thing and McDonald's a day the best

48:57

you've come across yeah

48:58

yeah

49:00

well no but they're

49:02

my favorite you know how when you

49:05

have something that you know is not objectively the best

49:07

but you love it anyway pretty

49:10

close to being the best I mean they're actually pretty

49:12

soggy but I don't mind that cuz you know like if you

49:14

get a delivery but if you get

49:17

fresh you know the good one actually

49:19

don't know the last time I was in a physical McDonald's

49:22

oh well that's why you think

49:22

that was way you know what now that I

49:26

know that I can have anything

49:29

that I want that's that

49:32

plus the lamb from when I was 14 years

49:35

old and the side of egg fried rice that's it okay

49:37

are you gonna finish with a pudding

49:39

sweet scum

49:41

so I serve pudding at my dinner party so I feel

49:43

like I have to but if I didn't have to I wouldn't

49:46

I just end on like coffee or cheese

49:48

okay

49:49

I'm a savory girl okay they're

49:51

just extras of all the main course yeah like

49:53

three places

49:57

with that we're gonna cast you off the island

49:59

thank you

49:59

much, Emma. Thank you. So

50:02

there we have it, another delicious

50:04

day of Desert Island Dishes. Don't

50:06

forget that you can rate, review and subscribe

50:09

to the podcast on iTunes. It really does

50:11

make a difference because that boosts

50:13

the show in the charts and then it tells other people

50:15

that it's a good show and means

50:17

that more people listen and that means

50:20

that I can keep bringing it to you each week. If

50:22

you don't already, then come and follow me on Instagram

50:25

at Desert Island Dishes and you can

50:27

also sign up for the newsletter and

50:29

find a whole host of different recipes at DesertIslandDishes.co.

50:32

A huge

50:34

thank you to my producer

50:35

Georgie who's helped me so

50:37

much with keeping this all running smoothly

50:40

and has to listen to hours of

50:42

my voice in her ears. Thank you so much

50:45

Georgie, you're the best. Thank you

50:47

for listening and I'll see you next week. Bye.