In lucky number 13, we speak with Robbie Epsom, EMEA Head of ESG for CBRE Investment Management, about transparency, change and constant improvement in the industry, the effects of ESG on the property sector, and the need to think more broadly to achieve the SDGs.

You can listen to Robbie's playlist at Apple: https://music.apple.com/gb/playlist/desertification-islands-discs-13-robbie-epsom/pl.u-06ox7K3FWqZJxV