Episode Transcript
Transcripts are displayed as originally observed. Some content, including advertisements may have changed.
Use Ctrl + F to search
0:00
Get $250 cash back after your first $500 in purchases when you
0:02
open a new visa at Kemba
0:07
Financial Credit Union. Pick from two
0:09
great cards, each with their unique
0:11
cash back rewards, perks, and benefits,
0:13
and give yourself the gift of
0:16
cash this holiday season. Visit kemba.org
0:18
to compare the cards for details
0:20
and to apply. Purchases must be
0:22
made in the first 30 days
0:24
for cash back eligibility. Kemba, a
0:26
better way to bank, federally insured
0:28
by NCUA. On
0:38
July 27, 2020,
0:41
Diana Davis, a 50-year-old certified nursing
0:43
assistant, disappeared from the
0:46
Seattle-Tacoma, Washington area. Two
0:48
days later, her car was discovered on
0:50
fire in a downtown Tacoma alley. Then,
0:53
on August 5th, Diana's
0:55
body was found more than an hour east
0:57
of Tacoma in a wooded area. It's
1:00
been over three years since Diana was killed, and
1:03
investigators are still searching for the person
1:05
responsible. Hey
1:36
everyone, welcome back to Detective Perspective. My
1:38
name is Derek Lavassar. I'm a licensed
1:40
private investigator and former police detective, and
1:43
each week I'll be covering an unsolved case
1:45
and story format. I'll then give
1:47
you my perspective on the investigation
1:49
and provide contact information for the
1:51
individuals and organizations connected to the
1:53
case so that if you have any
1:55
tips you can contact them directly and maybe you can
1:58
help solve the case. who's
2:00
interested in true crime, specifically unsolved
2:02
cases, and you would like to
2:04
hear my opinion on those investigations,
2:06
please consider subscribing, whether you're watching
2:08
on YouTube or listening on Apple
2:10
Podcasts or Spotify or whatever
2:12
platform you use. Okay, so this
2:15
case this week, Diana Davis, this
2:18
is a relatively new case, and
2:20
we've been doing older cases leading
2:23
up to this, which I feel like need the coverage.
2:26
And this is a case to me that stood out
2:28
because, as I said, it's relatively
2:30
new. And you would
2:32
think as you hear the specifics of how this
2:34
case went down, I kind of went over a
2:36
little bit of it in the teaser, her
2:38
car being discovered on fire, her body
2:40
being found at a different location. And
2:43
then as far as her history, her
2:46
dating practices, you
2:48
would think that this case would already be solved. You
2:50
would think that with today's technology and
2:53
the ability to trace GPS coordinates
2:55
and see who she was
2:57
talking to on specific dating sites, all that
2:59
good stuff, that this case would be solved.
3:02
But we're covering it here, so obviously
3:04
it isn't. So knowing the specifics
3:07
of this case and
3:09
feeling like it should be solved, I
3:11
wanted to put it out there to you guys.
3:13
I feel like maybe there's someone out there who's
3:16
listening or watching this who may have information or
3:18
may live in the area
3:20
and have access to a personal security
3:22
system camera that police haven't checked yet.
3:24
Maybe there's something on that footage that
3:26
may be helpful. Now it is three
3:29
years later, so if you don't have
3:31
a huge storage device, the
3:34
video footage might be gone. However, there may
3:36
be something you remember from that time after
3:38
I jog your memory. So I wanted to
3:40
cover this case. The whole goal of
3:43
what we do here is to give
3:45
a voice to the voiceless and to give some
3:47
exposure to a case that, in
3:49
my opinion, hasn't gotten enough or a case
3:51
where I feel like maybe there's something we can do. Diana
3:55
did have two children, Chris and
3:57
Christina. They're still out there. They're
3:59
still searching for answers. So as long as they are we
4:01
will as well. So we're gonna dive
4:03
right into it But before we do real
4:06
quick just a little bit of a qualifier here if you
4:09
Haven't put it together already Apologies
4:11
for last week. I was very
4:13
sick and I'm still Kind
4:16
of recovering from it. I feel fine, but
4:18
I don't sound great I'm still a little
4:21
tired and my voice is just way far
4:23
behind I'm still very congested and a
4:26
little raspy So I wanted
4:28
to apologize ahead of time if at points
4:30
during this episode It's not
4:32
as clear or as crisp as it
4:35
usually is I'm going
4:37
to do my best and fortunately This
4:39
isn't live and I have a great
4:41
editor and Shannon So if I
4:43
got to do multiple takes which I normally
4:45
do have to do I will
4:47
do them here to try to give you the best Episode
4:50
that I can so again apologies bear with
4:52
me. But with that all out of the
4:55
way, let's dive into the case Diana
4:58
Davis was born on June 25th 1970
5:01
in Korea when she was young her
5:04
family moved to Eastern, Washington After
5:06
graduating from high school Diana went to college
5:09
in Western, Washington Where she
5:11
was known to be a free-spirited spunky
5:13
person with a positive personality Following
5:16
her college years Diana started working
5:18
as a certified nursing assistant and
5:21
caretaker She settled
5:23
in the Auburn area situated between Seattle
5:25
and Tacoma and welcomed two children a
5:28
son Chris and a daughter Christina Diana
5:31
was a devoted mother who spent a lot of
5:33
time with her children Even when
5:35
they became adults she face-timed them on a
5:37
daily basis When Diana wasn't
5:40
with her family, she enjoyed hanging out
5:42
with her friends watching Netflix Intending
5:44
to her garden at Proctor Community
5:46
Garden in Tacoma by late
5:50
2019 Diana wasn't in any serious relationships,
5:52
but she had been searching for a
5:54
long-term partner for many years She
5:56
used online dating services and typically went on
5:58
one to two days a week, often
6:01
with businessmen, lawyers and pilots.
6:04
Finding a potential partner was never difficult
6:06
for Diana. Her best friend Monica
6:08
shared with KIR07 that she was the
6:10
type of person who talked to everybody.
6:13
She was very personable, likable and lovable.
6:15
When the COVID pandemic began in early 2020,
6:18
Diana took a break from dating because she was scared
6:21
of catching the virus. Then a
6:23
month or two into the pandemic, Diana
6:25
met a criminal defense attorney on match.com.
6:28
According to friends, he was persistent in going
6:30
on a date with her and she eventually
6:32
gave in, despite her concerns about COVID. Diana
6:35
and the attorney hit it off and she soon
6:37
told her friend Monica that she wanted to pursue
6:39
something with him. They started calling each
6:42
other boyfriend and girlfriend, although they had
6:44
an open relationship and could date other
6:46
people. And it's important to note
6:48
that during this time, Diana continued to live
6:50
on her own in Auburn. Active
6:52
military or veteran planning your next
6:55
career move? Start at Columbus State
6:57
Community College. Columbus State equips you
7:00
with the skills to launch a
7:02
high-tech career in Columbus's fastest growing
7:04
fields, including cyber security, software development
7:07
and more. That's why employers fueling
7:09
Central Ohio's tech boom hire our
7:12
graduates. Plus, our veteran services team
7:14
will help you maximize your benefits
7:16
and connect to a supportive campus
7:19
community. Take the first step. Apply
7:21
at cscc.edu/ it. Looking for
7:23
a single transportation service to handle
7:25
all of your transportation and logistics
7:27
needs? LCG Logistics is backed by
7:30
years of exceptional on-time delivery and
7:32
is uniquely qualified to provide the
7:34
coverage you need at the right
7:36
price. Based in Ohio, we provide
7:38
dedicated fleet service throughout 48 states
7:41
in Canada. LCG Logistics is small
7:43
enough to care and large enough
7:45
to handle your shipping properly. Call
7:47
614-272-4052. LCG Logistics, your single source
7:49
transportation supplier. On
7:55
the morning of July 27th, Diana and
7:57
her son Chris exchanged texts about her plans for the
7:59
day. which included going to her
8:01
garden. Then at 9.38 a.m.
8:03
they face time for approximately 31 minutes. According
8:07
to Unsolved Mysteries, Diana made it to
8:10
the community garden by that afternoon where
8:12
multiple witnesses had seen her. She
8:15
spent time tending to her tomato plants and
8:17
even texted her boyfriend a photo of a
8:19
tomato she had harvested promising to bring it
8:21
to dinner. He responded, quote,
8:24
sounds great. This is
8:26
her last known phone communication with anyone.
8:29
Now I wanted to bring up this interaction
8:31
with her boyfriend for two reasons. One, as
8:33
I just said, it's her
8:35
last known phone communication, but also
8:37
there's a little bit of an
8:39
interesting twist and I
8:41
don't really know exactly what to make of it, but
8:44
it involves this tomato and we're gonna get to it
8:46
in a little bit. Now Diana never
8:48
showed up for dinner that night leading her boyfriend to
8:50
call the police for a welfare check. When
8:53
officers went to her place, she wasn't there.
8:56
No one else heard from Diana that night. Her
8:58
family found this unusual, but they didn't panic.
9:01
Diana was known for always responding to messages
9:03
except when she was at work or with
9:05
someone. During those times, she
9:07
would often turn off her phone to
9:09
stay present. So the family figured she
9:12
might be with someone and that's why
9:14
she wasn't responding. The family's concern grew
9:16
on July 28th when they still couldn't
9:18
reach Diana. It was completely
9:20
unusual for her not to talk to her
9:22
kids and to disappear suddenly. On
9:25
July 29th, both Diana's family and
9:27
her boyfriend filed a missing persons
9:29
report. The police conducted another check of
9:31
her home, but Diana was nowhere to
9:33
be found. Unsolved mysteries reported
9:35
that on that same day, Diana's
9:38
family took matters into their own hands and went
9:40
to speak to someone they felt could be connected
9:42
to her disappearance, her
9:44
ex-boyfriend. She had broken up
9:46
with him because she wasn't as interested in him
9:49
as he was with her and after the breakup,
9:51
he allegedly stalked her, calling her
9:53
constantly, driving by her apartment and
9:56
showing up unannounced. Diana's brother
9:58
and his wife went to the outside.
10:00
ex-boyfriend's house, which was not far from
10:02
the community garden, and when they got there they
10:04
knocked on the door. The ex-boyfriend peered
10:06
through the window, but he refused to open.
10:09
When they insisted they wouldn't leave until he
10:11
told them where Diana was, he finally
10:13
opened the door and claimed he hadn't seen her
10:15
in two months. Diana's brother
10:18
and his wife left after this encounter. A
10:21
few hours later, at 10.54 PM,
10:23
police received a call about a burning
10:25
car in an alley in the 1600
10:27
block of Court E in downtown Tacoma.
10:30
When an officer arrived, they found a fire
10:32
consuming a silver 2013 Chevy Impala. The
10:36
owner of the car was nowhere to be found. The
10:39
license plate was gone, so the officer checked
10:41
the vent of the vehicle, which came back
10:43
registered, to Diana Davis. The
10:45
officer then called dispatch to get Diana's information
10:47
so that they could reach out to her
10:49
about the car. The dispatcher ran
10:51
Diana's name and found that she was currently
10:53
entered as a missing person, so
10:55
obviously concerns about her well-being intensified.
10:58
The car was searched and Diana's purse was found,
11:01
but her cell phone was missing. An
11:03
investigation concluded that the fire started in the
11:05
back seats and the trunk, suggesting
11:07
someone had set the car on fire
11:09
to destroy potential evidence. Unfortunately there were
11:11
no surveillance cameras in the area, so
11:14
police were unable to see who was
11:16
responsible for the fire. Diana's family
11:18
was puzzled about the car in the alley. It
11:21
wasn't close to the garden, and they didn't
11:23
think Diana would go to that area so
11:25
late in the evening. The family was heartbroken
11:27
and desperate for answers about Diana. Her
11:30
daughter Christina told a news outlet that she
11:32
really was hopeful someone with information would come
11:34
forward. She said the family missed
11:36
Diana deeply, and they just wanted to know
11:38
what was going on with her. With
11:41
Diana's car being found on fire,
11:43
her disappearance became highly suspicious. The
11:46
King County Sheriff's Office and Tacoma
11:48
Police Department joined forces to investigate
11:50
with Detective Jack Nasworthy taking the lead.
11:53
He reached out to the press, asking for
11:55
information about Diana's car and any sightings of
11:57
her between July 27th and July 4th. July
12:00
29th. While fielding tips from
12:02
the public, Detective Nazworthy focused on building a
12:05
timeline of Diana's activities from the 27th to
12:07
the 29th. He obtained
12:09
a search warrant from her phone company to
12:11
track her location. His findings revealed
12:14
that on the 27th, Diana spoke to
12:16
her son, briefly visited her
12:18
workplace, stopped by her boyfriend's house in
12:20
Tacoma to give him a house plant,
12:22
and then spent time at the community garden. Now
12:25
as I said earlier, while in the garden, Diana
12:27
took a photo of a harvested tomato and sent
12:29
it to her boyfriend stating that she would bring
12:31
it over for dinner. But here's the interesting part.
12:34
She ended up leaving the tomato in the garden. She
12:37
later drove around Tacoma in her Chevy Impala
12:39
with no one following her. According
12:41
to My Northwest, Diana made a
12:43
stop at an Ace Hardware store
12:45
in downtown Tacoma and stayed about
12:47
50 minutes from 5 p.m. to
12:49
5.50 p.m. She gave off
12:51
the impression she was just passing time and
12:54
she left without making any purchases. After
12:56
leaving the Ace Hardware store, Diana drove
12:58
north on the interstate to Seattle, ending
13:01
up at Loom & Field near Mariner Stadium at
13:03
746 p.m. Her phone's last signal
13:06
was there and then the phone turned
13:08
off immediately. Diana was
13:10
never heard from again. Now
13:13
two things here. Nazworthy did look for surveillance
13:15
footage at Loom & Field to see if
13:17
Diana met anyone there, but there were no
13:19
cameras in the parking lot. He also checked
13:21
the Ace Hardware store parking lot as well.
13:23
Again, no cameras. Now after
13:25
building Diana's timeline, Detective Nazworthy had
13:27
two potential suspects to investigate, one
13:30
of them being Diana's boyfriend, the
13:32
criminal defense attorney. He was the
13:34
last person she talked to and one
13:36
of the first people to report her
13:38
missing. Nazworthy questioned Diana's boyfriend and he
13:40
denied having any involvement in her disappearance.
13:42
He did share that he and Diana
13:44
had a serious discussion about their relationship
13:47
the night before she went missing. Diana
13:49
really wanted to get married, but
13:51
the boyfriend wasn't interested in that and he said
13:53
he preferred to keep their relationship open so that
13:55
they could date other people. While all
13:57
of this could seem suspicious on the surface, Nazworthy
14:00
was able to quickly rule out the
14:02
boyfriend of having anything to do with
14:04
Diana's disappearance. According to Unsolved Mysteries, the
14:06
boyfriend provided receipts from a grocery store
14:08
trip on the 27th, and
14:11
various witness statements confirmed his whereabouts from the 27th
14:13
to the 29th. Now,
14:16
if that all wasn't enough, Nazworthy also obtained
14:18
a search warrant for the boyfriend's phone. The
14:21
location data showed that he was either at
14:23
his home or at his Tacoma office during
14:25
all relevant times. He was never
14:27
near Diana's home, the community garden, or
14:29
downtown Tacoma where the burned car was
14:32
found. The boyfriend
14:34
also passed the polygraph test where
14:36
he denied any involvement in her
14:38
disappearance. With Diana's boyfriend
14:40
basically ruled out, Detective Nazworthy
14:42
had another suspect to investigate,
14:44
Diana's ex-boyfriend, the one who allegedly
14:47
stalked her before she went missing, and
14:49
the one that Diana's brother went and visited
14:52
after she disappeared. According
14:54
to Unsolved Mysteries, Nazworthy tried to get
14:56
a statement from the ex-boyfriend at his
14:58
home, but he refused to talk to police.
15:00
Fortunately, a neighbor across the street had
15:02
a security camera that captured the movement
15:05
in front of the ex-boyfriend's house. Nazworthy
15:07
also got a search warrant for the
15:09
ex-boyfriend's phone records and realized that he
15:11
was nowhere near Diana on the 27th
15:13
through the 29th. The
15:15
surveillance footage, coupled with the phone records,
15:17
seemingly ruled out the ex of having
15:20
any direct involvement with Diana's disappearance. Then,
15:23
on August 5th, a body
15:25
was found about an hour and 20 minutes east
15:27
of Tacoma near I-90. That
15:29
afternoon, a woman was walking her dogs near
15:31
Snoqualmie Pass when one of her dogs ran
15:33
25 yards into the woods. The
15:36
woman followed the dog and was led to
15:38
a half-buried body. She immediately
15:41
called the police. Responding
15:43
officers examined the body and believed
15:45
it might be Diana Davis, so
15:47
they immediately called Detective Nazworthy. He
15:49
later told Unsolved Mysteries that after he arrived
15:51
on scene, he wasn't immediately positive
15:54
that the body belonged to Diana due
15:56
to the advanced state of decomposition. The
15:58
killer attempted to dig a grave. grave, but
16:01
gave up after only getting six inches in. He
16:04
buried the body's lower half in a shallow grave,
16:06
then covered the upper half with tree debris. This
16:10
meant the upper part was more
16:12
exposed to the elements and animals,
16:14
speeding up decomposition and making the
16:16
body unidentifiable upon observation alone. When
16:18
investigators uncovered the lower half of the
16:20
body, which was in a lesser state
16:22
of decomposition, Nazworthy immediately noticed
16:25
a leg tattoo that matched Diana's.
16:27
He now believed the body was hers,
16:29
however no identifying belongings like her phone
16:31
were found in the area, so
16:34
he couldn't be 100% certain until an
16:36
autopsy was completed. The King
16:38
County Medical Examiner and a team of
16:40
forensic anthropologists performed an autopsy on the
16:42
remains. Within five days,
16:45
they were able to officially identify
16:47
them as belonging to Diana Davis.
16:50
My Northwest reported that the autopsy
16:52
concluded Diana's cause of death was
16:55
repeated blunt force trauma to her head and face,
16:58
most likely with a hammer. Nazworthy
17:00
noted that the high level of violence
17:02
suggested a close and personal attack. He
17:05
thought there was also a possibility that
17:07
Diana may have been sexually assaulted, but
17:09
due to the condition of her body, the
17:11
examiner was unable to make that
17:14
determination. When you
17:16
download the Kroger app, you have easy
17:18
access to savings every day. Get the
17:20
most out of weekly sales and receive
17:22
personalized coupons to save on your favorite
17:24
items, all while earning one fuel point
17:26
for every dollar spent. Kroger makes it
17:28
easy to save while you shop, whether
17:30
it's in-store or online, so you get
17:32
the most value out of every trip,
17:34
every time. Download the Kroger app now
17:36
to save big on your next purchase.
17:38
Kroger. Fresh for everyone. Must have a
17:40
digital account to redeem offers? Restrictions may
17:42
apply. See site for details. The
17:45
holidays start here at Kroger with a
17:47
variety of options to celebrate traditions old
17:49
and new. You could do
17:52
a classic herb roasted turkey or spice it up
17:54
and make turkey tacos. Serve up
17:56
a go-to shrimp cocktail or use
17:58
Simple Truth Wild Caught Shrimp for
18:00
your first Cajun risotto. Make
18:02
creamy mac and cheese or a spinach
18:05
artichoke fondue from our selection of Murray's
18:07
cheese. No matter how you shop, Kroger
18:09
has all the freshest ingredients to embrace
18:11
all your holiday traditions. Kroger. Kroger, fresh for everyone.
18:13
Now I want to pause here for
18:16
a second and talk about this because
18:19
this this gets thrown out a lot in true
18:21
crime and I'm
18:23
not a forensic pathologist, not a medical
18:25
examiner. I don't do this
18:27
every day and there are
18:29
way better people more qualified to talk about
18:31
this but and then you also
18:33
have the psychological element of it. I'm not
18:36
a forensic psychologist either but I hear what
18:39
people are saying when they say you know the violent
18:42
nature of this attack
18:44
could suggest that it was personal in
18:47
nature right this crime of passion this
18:49
violent act where this person was hurting
18:51
and was mad at their victim and
18:53
therefore inflicted this level of pain. Yeah,
18:56
that's true. That's very possible. I don't
18:58
know what the statistics are behind it but
19:01
just coming from a normal person couldn't
19:03
it also be just a crime
19:06
of convenience and what I mean
19:08
by that is if this individual
19:10
is some sick person right and
19:14
let's say and I'm going to get more into this in my
19:16
perspective but let's say there's a
19:19
disagreement or something goes wrong maybe
19:21
he pushes it further than Diana
19:23
wanted to go he realizes
19:25
that she may implicate him
19:27
in a crime or or it
19:29
could have been a sexual assault could have been a
19:32
rape right where it
19:34
was there was no personal feelings in this
19:36
there wasn't any hatred but maybe the closest
19:38
thing to this assailant was
19:40
a hammer or a bat or whatever
19:44
it might be and that was
19:46
just the the the weapon of choice because
19:48
that was the most convenient it had nothing
19:50
more to do with that it's
19:52
not that deep and as far
19:54
as assaulting her multiple times again I don't want
19:56
to I don't want to take away
19:58
from what happened here But I think it's
20:01
just as likely that this person who may
20:03
not be experienced in killing people may
20:06
have struck her multiple times to ensure that she
20:08
was dead. So I try
20:10
not to get too caught up in the
20:12
whole, oh you know the way she was
20:14
killed, she was stabbed multiple times or she
20:16
was struck in the face repeatedly. You
20:19
know that suggests that this person knew her and this
20:21
was personal to them. Yeah, that's
20:23
possible. But I don't want to discredit the idea that
20:25
it's also possible that this individual just did it because
20:27
they did it and they thought that that was the
20:29
best way to accomplish what they wanted
20:32
to accomplish which was to shut her up
20:34
and make sure that she never spoke again.
20:36
That it could be, I'm not
20:39
trying to take away from what we're talking about
20:41
here. I'm just trying to keep it
20:43
in perspective for everyone because I
20:45
feel like sometimes when an
20:47
investigator or a storyteller says you
20:49
know she was struck in
20:51
the face multiple times, this you know that suggests
20:53
it was a crime of passion. Maybe they knew
20:55
this person. I feel like
20:58
sometimes what we're actually doing is narrowing the
21:00
field of vision as far as who
21:02
our potential suspects are and that's not
21:04
necessarily a good thing because if
21:06
we're only looking for people who
21:08
had some emotional connection to this and
21:11
may have acted this way, we may
21:13
be missing the actual suspect who didn't
21:15
know her from a hole in the wall, didn't care
21:18
about doing this, didn't have any previous encounters with
21:20
her where they were upset with her. This
21:22
was just a means to an end for them. I'm
21:24
just trying to keep that perspective as wide
21:26
as we can so we don't find ourselves
21:28
going down the wrong path and missing the
21:31
right person. As far as the
21:33
sexual assault, I hear different
21:35
things on this because you could have DNA,
21:38
you could have semen on the body or
21:40
in the vaginal canal and it would
21:42
suggest some type of sexual encounter. You
21:44
could have vaginal tearing, you could have
21:47
signs of holding the victim down by
21:49
the arms or legs, fingerprint impressions. So
21:52
there's a variety of things you may
21:55
see if the person isn't this badly
21:57
decomposed. But again, I don't like to go too
21:59
far down the- that path because I do think there's
22:01
a lot when it comes to this that's subjective
22:04
to interpretation and you
22:07
could have multiple, we've seen it, you could
22:09
have multiple examiners look at the same
22:11
body and come to a different conclusion.
22:14
So what's my takeaway here? Diana
22:17
was brutally murdered. Point
22:20
blank period. So I don't want to focus
22:22
too much on the motive because yes, if
22:24
we knew for sure that this crime
22:27
suggested or the way in which it was carried out,
22:29
100% guaranteed that the person who
22:32
did this had a personal vendetta against
22:34
Diana. Sure that'd be great. It would absolutely
22:36
narrow the pool and it would make all
22:38
of our jobs a lot easier. I
22:41
just don't want to go off speculation
22:43
because that's really what it is, a profile,
22:46
right? And have it be
22:48
the wrong person because then we're going to end up
22:50
where we are right now with no answers. So not
22:53
to take anything away from that. I
22:55
just want you guys leaving this with, yeah,
22:58
there's no doubt about it. Whoever did this, they're
23:00
a monster. The fact that they were
23:02
able to do this to another human being says
23:04
more about them than anything else
23:06
as to why they did it. We
23:09
may never know unless we catch them. Now
23:12
the medical examiner was able to determine
23:14
that Diana had likely been in the
23:16
wooded area since July 27th shortly after
23:18
she went missing. The medical
23:20
examiner also was able to recover male
23:22
DNA from under one of Diana's fingernails.
23:25
Now the sample isn't big enough to
23:28
enter into the national DNA database, however,
23:30
it is sufficient for a one-to-one comparison.
23:33
Now we know the sample was tested against
23:35
Diana's boyfriend and it did not match. It's
23:38
unclear if the sample had been tested against
23:40
her ex-boyfriend or anyone else for that matter.
23:43
After the news of Diana's death broke, her daughter
23:45
told the media that she was not prepared to
23:47
learn that her mom had been murdered. Diana
23:50
said, quote, to hear somebody just
23:52
kind of threw her in the woods is absolutely
23:54
sickening to me. I don't understand
23:56
why people would want to murder such a sweet, beautiful,
23:59
innocent innocent soul. Christina
24:01
went on to say that the family wanted justice,
24:04
but it wasn't going to bring Diana back. Nothing
24:07
would ever be the same again. Diana's
24:09
son Chris was also struggling with the loss. He
24:12
told Fox 13 News, quote, every
24:14
night it's hard to sleep. It's hard to
24:17
eat every day. I've dealt with
24:19
loss before. But when it's something
24:21
like this, so unnatural, unexpected, so
24:23
untimely, I can't really
24:25
fathom it. This is real
24:27
life. It's not a TV show or a movie. There
24:30
is somebody really out there who had the capability
24:32
of killing my mom. Chris
24:35
added, quote, somebody cut my mom's
24:37
life short. My mom just turned 50
24:39
and I feel like she had 50 more years in front
24:41
of her. She was full of life. Chris
24:44
ended his statement by saying the family was
24:46
really hoping people would come forward to help
24:49
find Diana's murderer. After
24:51
Diana was laid to rest, Detective
24:53
Nazworthy continued his investigation. At
24:55
this point, he had a theory about what had happened to
24:58
Diana. He told Unsolved Mysteries
25:00
that he believed Diana didn't actually plan to
25:02
meet her boyfriend for dinner on the 27th,
25:04
which is why she left the tomato in the garden. Nazworthy
25:07
thought that Diana might have been upset about
25:09
their talk regarding not wanting to get married
25:11
and wanting to see other people. So
25:14
instead of going to her boyfriend for dinner, Diana
25:16
set up a date with another man as a
25:18
way of saying, look, I can date other people,
25:20
too. Nazworthy theorized that after leaving
25:22
the garden, Diana went to Ace Hardware to
25:24
pass the time before meeting up with her
25:26
date at Lumen Field. After
25:29
leaving Ace, she drove to Seattle, parked
25:31
at the field, and turned off her phone
25:33
to focus. Unfortunately, she was
25:35
then tragically murdered. Nazworthy
25:38
also believed it's possible Diana's car was
25:40
used to transport her body to Snow
25:42
Qualmy Pass, an area the killer was
25:44
likely familiar with as it wasn't a
25:46
type of place you would stumble upon
25:48
accidentally. Because of this
25:50
location, Nazworthy thinks the killer is an
25:52
outdoorsy type who likes hunting, hiking, or
25:55
even camping. Nazworthy further believes
25:57
the killer knew Diana was from the
25:59
Tacoma area. and that's why he left
26:01
her car burning there. He theorized
26:03
that the killer is also familiar with Tacoma,
26:05
which explains how he was able to choose
26:08
a spot without cameras to burn the vehicle.
26:10
Nazworthy thought it was possible that Diana met
26:12
this man on a dating website right before
26:15
their date, or maybe she had already been
26:17
on a date with him in the past. Nazworthy
26:19
suspected this man had a professional career
26:21
as well because, as I said earlier,
26:24
Diana tended to only date
26:26
businessmen, pilots, lawyers, people with
26:29
established careers. Now I
26:31
want to take a second here and just
26:33
give another wrinkle because when
26:35
you think about those types of individuals,
26:38
what do they also have in common? They
26:41
travel a lot. So it's
26:43
very possible that Diana, maybe not by
26:45
choice, was dating a lot of men
26:47
who had professions
26:50
that required them to travel throughout
26:52
the country. And so these
26:54
men, as they're traveling from state to state,
26:56
are hopping on these websites, finding
26:59
women in whatever city they're spending the night
27:01
in, and going out on a date, potentially
27:03
hooking up and going on their
27:05
way. Maybe this
27:07
is an angle that Nazworthy had already looked into,
27:09
but I can tell you right now, if
27:12
I were working this case, these
27:14
are the types of individuals that I'd be looking
27:16
for. Now before I give
27:18
you my opinion on all of this, I
27:20
want to note that Diana's best friend Monica
27:22
told Unsolved Mysteries that she disagrees
27:24
with parts of Nazworthy's theory. She
27:27
doesn't think Diana would meet up with someone other
27:29
than her boyfriend for a date during COVID. However,
27:32
Monica did concede that it wasn't
27:34
impossible. She mentioned that if Diana
27:36
did arrange a date, it would have been
27:38
with someone she already knew as she
27:41
was wary of strangers due to COVID. Now
27:43
as far as my thoughts on this, I
27:45
don't necessarily disagree with Monica and I'll be
27:47
the first to admit she knows Diana way
27:49
better than I ever will. But
27:52
I will say if there was something that occurred
27:54
that maybe caused Diana to
27:58
act differently would
28:00
maybe out of frustration or anger she
28:03
could go outside the scope of how she would
28:05
normally act especially as it
28:08
pertains to what her friends and family would normally
28:10
expect from her. And what I mean by that is
28:13
yeah under certain conditions Diana
28:15
probably conducted herself in a
28:18
pretty similar pattern. However
28:21
if something threw her off maybe
28:23
a conversation with her boyfriend the
28:25
night before that frustrated her and
28:27
maybe she wanted to prove a
28:29
point. Could she go
28:31
outside what she would normally do during COVID
28:34
in order to try to get something
28:36
across to her boyfriend that hey I'm
28:38
not gonna be here forever? That's possible.
28:41
It's also possible that Monica's right. I'm
28:44
not saying at all that it's that this person responsible
28:46
for her death isn't someone she already knew. In fact
28:48
we're gonna get to it in a little bit but
28:51
a little bit of a foreshadow here I
28:53
think more than likely it was someone she knew from the
28:55
past. Now hoping to find the man
28:57
that Diana possibly went on a date with Nasworthy
28:59
obtained a search warrant for her known
29:02
dating profiles match.com and a
29:04
website related to BDSM. According
29:06
to Fox 13 News Diana's last
29:08
login on match.com was a month
29:11
before she went missing. Details
29:13
on the BDSM website haven't been released
29:15
but as far as I can tell
29:17
the site doesn't provide any obvious leads
29:20
either. Without Diana's phone Nasworthy
29:22
had no idea if she had used
29:24
any other dating sites. To
29:26
learn about that potential possibility Nasworthy asked
29:28
the public for tips hoping to find
29:30
men who might have matched with her
29:32
or even dated her from a different
29:34
platform. Unfortunately no
29:37
solid tips came in and
29:39
the case stalled. In 2022 the
29:41
Tacoma Police and King County Sheriff's Office began
29:44
working with the Seattle Police and
29:46
the FBI to solve Diana's case.
29:48
In September of 2022
29:51
more than two years after Diana's death authorities
29:54
held a press conference to remind everyone about
29:56
the case and how it was still
29:58
unsolved. Detective Nasworthy where they said,
30:00
quote, this person went through a lot of
30:02
effort to cover up this crime. Not
30:04
only did they take her out in the woods, bury
30:07
her in a place where they probably didn't think she'd
30:09
ever be located, but they also went
30:11
through the effort to burn her car to hide
30:13
evidence. And that's not something you're
30:15
going to see usually in a random crime. Since
30:18
the press conference, there have been very few
30:20
official updates in Diana's case. However,
30:24
some people online believe a potential person of
30:26
interest emerged in April of 2023. That month,
30:30
a man named Brett Getchell was
30:32
charged with the kidnapping and murder
30:34
of Leticia Martinez-Kosman in Seattle. Media
30:37
outlets reported that Brett and Leticia went to a
30:40
Mariners game, which was held right next to Loom
30:42
and Field. Following the game,
30:44
Leticia vanished, and almost two weeks later,
30:46
she was found strangled in a wooded
30:48
area 20 minutes away in Renton. Brett
30:51
had burned Leticia's car to hide evidence
30:53
and also attacked her adult son. After
30:56
Brett's arrest, many people online noticed
30:58
that Leticia's murder shares similarities with
31:01
Diana's, a possible first date near
31:03
Loom and Field, a burned car, and
31:06
a burial in the woods. Now, some
31:08
people have theorized that Brett might be
31:10
Diana's killer. But as far as
31:12
I can tell, the Tacoma police have not commented
31:14
on this publicly. That being said, Diana's
31:17
friends and family are still fighting
31:19
for justice. Enjoying
31:46
Kia's season of giving back. Kia, Movement
31:48
7 Time. Call 800-333-4200 for details. Always
31:52
drive safely. Event end 12.4. Active
31:54
military or veteran planning your next
31:56
career move? Start at Columbus State
31:58
Community College. and thousands
32:02
of new jobs in Central Ohio.
32:04
They hire Columbus graduates. Our engineering
32:06
technology programs equip you with skills
32:08
and experience to launch
32:10
a high-tech career in Columbus's fast-growing field
32:13
and our veteran services team will help
32:15
you maximize your benefits and connect to
32:17
a supportive campus community. Take the first
32:19
step apply at cscc.edu
32:23
engineering tech. All right, so let's
32:25
dive into my perspective and I know I always say oh,
32:27
this is gonna be a quick one and then it's never
32:29
quick, but this one actually is gonna be quick and I'll
32:31
tell you why I agree with
32:33
a lot of what Nazworthy has had to say
32:36
about this case. I think he's spot-on. I
32:38
definitely think there's a situation here where
32:41
there was a conversation the night before
32:43
between Diana and and the boyfriend and
32:46
she didn't like what was said. She thought the
32:48
relationship was going one way. He
32:50
clearly felt that it was going another. So
32:53
she goes over to the garden. I think
32:55
she may have already had a date lined
32:57
up. She already knew what she was going
33:00
to be doing and as I
33:02
said earlier, it's probably someone that
33:04
she's dated before and may have been in
33:06
town again, which is why the
33:08
phone might be missing by the way. If there's those
33:11
messages that are going back and forth that maybe
33:14
on a like, I don't know, a secretive app that was
33:16
only on the phone, then it wouldn't be on her phone
33:18
records like a Snapchat or something like that.
33:20
There may not be a record of it. But
33:23
that being said, I think she knew she
33:25
was going out that night. So she goes
33:27
to the garden. She sends the picture
33:30
of the tomato full
33:32
well-knowing. She has no intention on going
33:34
there. She leaves the tomato in the
33:36
garden well before anything happens. That's a
33:38
verifiable fact. Nazworthy has already checked that
33:40
all out. It checks out and just
33:43
a quick to go back to what
33:45
we talked about in the episode. As suspicious
33:47
as the ex-boyfriend might be and you
33:49
know the boyfriend knowing what he knew, I the
33:53
peers, they were both thoroughly vetted. And
33:55
I would if I had to guess if I
33:57
had to guess the DNA that we
33:59
had have was also
34:01
compared to the ex-boyfriend. That's
34:04
my guess. But even if it wasn't, you
34:06
can't be in two places at once. If
34:08
he's seen on camera going into his residence
34:10
and then he doesn't leave that
34:13
entire day, well, he can't kill
34:15
her on the 27th if he never leaves his
34:17
house. So that would be exculpatory
34:19
evidence. So either way, I don't
34:21
think the ex-boyfriend or the boyfriend are good
34:23
for this murder. So let's get back to
34:26
what I think as far as what happened
34:28
and how it lines up with what Nazworthy
34:30
has already said. She knows she's
34:32
going on a date. She knows
34:34
the time in which she has to be there. She
34:36
knows how long it's going to take to get there,
34:38
which is why she goes to Ace Hardware.
34:41
We've all done it, right? You have a place that
34:43
you're going to be meeting someone, maybe not necessarily a
34:45
date, and instead of going home,
34:48
you just stop somewhere to kill some time. We've
34:50
all done it. It's super common. It
34:52
makes perfect sense. So she's at
34:54
the hardware store, doesn't buy a single thing,
34:57
and heads on up to Seattle
34:59
and heads over near Lumen Field.
35:02
And although I wouldn't suggest
35:04
doing this ever, turning off your phone, especially when
35:06
you're meeting up with someone who you may not
35:09
know that well, it does appear
35:11
that that was a common behavior for Diana.
35:13
So I'm not going to knock her for
35:15
it. We're just going to acknowledge that the
35:17
phone going off at that time
35:20
is not that suspicious because it's something she was known
35:22
to do in the past. But what
35:24
we know, based on her friends and
35:26
family, is that when that phone went off,
35:29
it was usually because she was meeting
35:31
with someone more specifically a date. So
35:34
is it a big leap to believe
35:36
that more than likely she
35:38
was meeting someone for a date? I don't think so. More
35:41
than likely she went up to Seattle knowing
35:43
that she had someone there that she was going to be
35:45
meeting for dinner or whatever the case may be. And
35:48
as soon as she got out of the car or as soon as she parked, she
35:50
shut off her phone, which she had done in the past. And
35:53
as Nazworthy said, something happens that night.
35:55
Maybe it was premeditated. Maybe this individual
35:57
who had met up with her before.
36:00
kind of softened her up a little bit, made her drop
36:02
her guard a little bit, had some nefarious
36:04
intentions going into it and knew what they
36:06
were gonna do that night, or
36:08
this was something that just kind of went
36:10
awry, where that's where the hammer
36:13
kinda comes in and it
36:15
could mean one of two things, right? And we don't
36:17
know for sure it was a hammer but could have
36:19
been a some other blunt force object similar to a
36:21
hammer, but it could mean one of two
36:23
things. One sick individual who
36:25
found gratification by using an item
36:27
like that during the murder or
36:30
as I said earlier, this was the
36:32
closest thing in reach, right? Something goes
36:34
wrong, there's a sexual assault, something of
36:37
that nature and there's a
36:39
fight that occurs which is why DNA
36:42
was found under Diana's fingernails, that would
36:44
be a sign of a defensive wound
36:47
and during that assault the individual grabbed a
36:49
hammer or something like a hammer, strikes
36:51
her once, strikes her twice, incapacitates
36:54
her and then continues to
36:56
strike her to kill her. And then
36:58
as Nasworthy said, this person knows the
37:00
area where he eventually leaves her body,
37:03
gets a little spook that maybe someone's gonna
37:05
come by, doesn't dig a deep enough grave
37:07
but figures based on where it's located, it's
37:10
far enough off the beaten path where no
37:12
one will find her and based on what
37:14
we know that may have been the case
37:16
if it wasn't for this dog that as
37:18
I said, ran 25 yards off the walk
37:22
to locate Diana. And the burning
37:24
of the car, I don't think it takes a
37:26
detective to figure that one out, of course, they
37:28
might have been in her vehicle together, the the
37:31
vehicle might have been used later to transport her
37:33
body although that would be very risky to do
37:36
that but it's possible and yeah,
37:38
there's no doubt about it, they brought the car
37:40
to a location where they knew
37:42
or assumed there were no cameras and
37:44
they decided to light it on fire to
37:46
hopefully destroy any type of trace
37:49
evidence that would potentially be left behind. Fortunately
37:52
for us, the
37:54
individual did not expect Diana's body
37:56
to be recovered and more importantly
37:58
did not expect anything that
38:00
was recovered to be viable in a
38:03
potential DNA test. So that's
38:05
where we are right now. We do have
38:07
some DNA. If we find
38:09
a potential suspect, we can
38:11
connect them to this crime. If they're
38:13
not someone who had a previous relationship
38:16
with Diana and fits the
38:18
the different criteria here as far as
38:21
the dates in question July 27th and
38:23
may have been known to date people in
38:26
the past, this could be something where we
38:28
could really solve this case and that's why I wanted
38:31
to get it out to you guys because I do think you
38:34
or or someone you know may
38:36
know Diana or know someone she
38:38
dated and this could get
38:40
the ball rolling. As I said earlier,
38:43
just finding a different dating app that
38:45
she may have used that Detective Nazworthy
38:47
is not familiar with, he
38:49
may be able to get a
38:51
warrant for that website to see
38:53
the conversations that Diana was having
38:55
on that platform and if we're
38:58
really lucky maybe she was
39:00
having a conversation on one of
39:02
those platforms that happened relatively recently
39:05
and around the time in which she
39:07
possibly went on this date. So
39:10
that's where we are right now. We have a
39:12
date, a time, a potential
39:14
location where Diana met up with
39:16
her offender and we
39:18
know the path in which Diana was
39:20
brought back and left at
39:22
this park and then also her car
39:24
was burned. So as I
39:26
mentioned all these different locations, this
39:29
may be something that rings a bell for someone
39:31
out there who's watching or listening to this episode
39:34
of maybe a person who would be
39:36
familiar with all three of
39:38
these locations and may have been dating around
39:41
the time of July 27 2020 and that's
39:44
where you come in. If you have information we need
39:47
you to come forward. So real quickly just to
39:49
recap, Diana Davis was last
39:51
verifiably seen at 5.50 p.m.
39:54
on July 27 2020
39:57
at an Ace Hardware near downtown Tacoma in
39:59
Washington. Washington, phone records
40:01
show that within two hours she was at
40:03
Loom & Field in Seattle, and
40:05
on July 29th, Diana's silver 2013
40:08
Chevy Impala was found burning in
40:11
an alley in the 1600
40:13
block of Court E in downtown Tacoma.
40:15
On August 5th, her body was found
40:17
near Snoqualmie Pass, and her phone has
40:20
never been recovered. In
40:22
addition to wanting to speak to anyone
40:24
who knows about Diana's murder, detectives want
40:26
to talk to anyone who saw Diana
40:28
and or her car between July 27th
40:30
and July 29th, as
40:33
well as anyone who might have matched with her or
40:35
dated her in the past. If you
40:37
have any information, you can call Crime Stoppers
40:40
at 1-800-222-8477. And
40:45
my final words on this one are
40:47
really simple based on where we are
40:49
right now. It's the beginning of December
40:52
as I'm filming this episode, and
40:54
I'm thinking about Chris and Christina,
40:56
Diana's children. We covered
40:58
a lot of cases this year, and we talked
41:01
about a lot of families that have been affected
41:04
exponentially, and their lives will never be the
41:06
same. And I
41:09
know why, and you know why we're
41:11
covering these cases. We want to spread
41:13
the message about these unresolved stories with
41:16
the potential that maybe, just maybe,
41:19
we'll be able to solve one of them. That's the
41:21
goal here. I
41:23
think the silver lining in
41:25
listening to these stories, for
41:28
me and for you, is that we
41:31
can find value in the fact that around the
41:33
holidays, I think we all have things
41:36
that we complain about, that we
41:38
wish were better. And I
41:40
know without a doubt that Chris and Christina and
41:43
every other family that we've talked about
41:45
on Detective Perspective this year would
41:48
give anything just to
41:50
have their loved ones back. So
41:52
as I leave this year, thinking
41:54
about all the cases that we covered, that's
41:57
what I'm taking with me. Yes, we're going to continue
41:59
to... fight for justice, but
42:01
at minimum it makes me more grateful for what I
42:03
have and the fact that I can still pick up
42:06
the phone and call most of the
42:08
people that are closest to me in my life. The
42:10
people we talk about each week, they don't have that
42:12
luxury. And so I think
42:15
that if anything you take from this
42:17
case, it's that to talk to
42:19
the people you love the most and to understand
42:21
that tomorrow's not promised and even
42:23
if it's promised for you it may
42:26
not be promised for the people you care about. But
42:28
don't take it for granted, as I said on social
42:30
media for some of you who may have caught it,
42:33
this was supposed to come out last week
42:35
and thinking about family and friends and just
42:38
talking about them now, they have
42:40
all told me that I'm burning the wick
42:42
at both ends. I have a lot
42:44
going on right now and I'm extremely blessed and fortunate to
42:46
be in this position. But they've
42:48
been telling me for a while that I need
42:50
to slow down and it's very apparent that my
42:52
body is starting to tell me that as well.
42:55
So this is a good opportunity during the holidays
42:57
to recover and refresh myself
43:00
both mentally and physically and
43:02
get ready for 2024 where we'll
43:04
be back with detective perspective doing more
43:06
cases like we never left. And
43:09
I just want to get ready for that year
43:11
and enjoy time with the family. And
43:14
like I said, get 100% again and get ready
43:16
for the new year because we got a lot in store. Trust
43:18
me, things that you guys don't even know about. Crime Weekly is
43:20
still going to be out there every week. Like
43:23
I said, we're going to be shutting it down
43:25
for the rest of the year for detective perspective
43:27
so we can get things in order. I
43:29
can get back to 100% health and
43:31
we can keep it rolling. So I just want
43:34
to say thank you to every single one of you who
43:36
has tuned in every single week
43:38
whether you're listening or watching. This
43:41
was a new thing that I started. I didn't know where it was
43:43
going to go and I can see the
43:45
potential now. My vision for what
43:47
this was when I initially started, it's
43:49
finally becoming a realization. I'm super excited for
43:51
the potential of what we could do in
43:53
the future. There's some things going on behind
43:55
the scenes that may even help us grow
43:57
this channel more that may help get the
44:00
the message out about what we're trying to
44:02
do, and most importantly, get the message out
44:04
about the cases we're covering. So
44:06
again, thank you to everyone who's been
44:08
here all year with me. We'll
44:11
be back next year. And listen, if you're someone
44:13
who is like, whoa, what am
44:15
I gonna do? I love true crime. I wanna
44:17
continue hearing about it and talking
44:19
about it. Well, listen, I might have an
44:22
opportunity for some of you that you may be
44:24
interested in, and this might be the perfect time
44:26
to do it. So I've
44:28
said before, and I'll say it again, I
44:31
could not do what I'm doing here without
44:33
the team that I have around me. Shout
44:35
out to Shannon, my editor, she's amazing. And
44:38
shout out to Haley Gray, who
44:41
is a researcher and writer for the
44:43
show as well. She's also incredible. And
44:46
that's what I wanna talk to you about right now.
44:48
Listen, a lot of you guys listen to these cases
44:50
and you wanna be involved, you wanna know more about
44:52
it, and you're doing your research on your own. Well,
44:55
why not take your skillset to the next level?
44:57
And this is where you might be able
45:00
to do that. Haley Gray, like I said,
45:02
works on Detective Perspective, has now came up
45:04
with a training program to teach you how
45:06
to research and write scripts for true crime
45:08
podcasts. And this is called True
45:10
Crime Podcast Training. And this training is 100%
45:12
online and
45:14
it's taught by Haley Gray and certified teacher,
45:17
Andrea Marshbank. Now a little bit more about
45:19
Haley, because I could tell you everything about
45:21
her, but she's got seven plus years of
45:23
experience working alongside true crime podcasts like Detective
45:26
Perspective, but also My Favorite Murder, and many
45:28
more podcasts that I am absolutely certain you
45:30
have heard of and listened to. So
45:33
whether you're seeking a full-time career or
45:35
a side gig at True Crime Podcast
45:37
Training, you will learn to use archival
45:39
databases and other tools essential for
45:41
researching true crime podcasts ethically. So
45:44
if this sounds interesting to you,
45:46
you can head on over to
45:48
truecrimepodcasttraining.com today, and you can
45:50
use the code DETECTIVE for $150 off any course.
45:55
Go take a look at their online
45:57
programs, they're awesome. Once again, that's
45:59
truecrimepodcast.com. training.com. Use
46:01
the code detective to get $150 off any course. That's going to
46:03
do it for
46:06
me guys. I survived. I got through it. I still
46:10
have my voice. It's amazing. Again, can't
46:12
thank you enough for being here with me
46:14
each and every week. I will see you
46:16
after the new year. Stay safe out there.
46:18
Happy holidays. Reimagine
46:31
this holiday season with more capability and
46:33
more adventure in Kia's Ever Ready lineup.
46:35
This winter, gift yourself what you really
46:37
want during Kia's Season of Giving Back
46:39
sales event. Kia is offering great deals
46:42
on the capable Sorento and the spacious
46:44
Sportage, and deals on even more vehicles
46:46
like the all-electric EV6 and the fun-to-drive
46:48
Forte. So visit your local Kia dealer
46:50
and explore all your newfound possibilities by
46:53
enjoying Kia's Season of Giving Back. Kia.
46:55
Movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4KIA for details.
46:58
Always drive safely. Event ends 1-224. The
47:01
holidays start here at Kroger with a
47:03
variety of options to celebrate traditions old
47:05
and new. You could do
47:08
a classic herb roasted turkey or spice it up
47:10
and make turkey tacos. Serve up
47:12
a go-to shrimp cocktail or use
47:14
Simple Truth Wild Caught Shrimp for
47:16
your first Cajun risotto. Make
47:18
creamy mac and cheese or a spinach
47:21
artichoke fondue from our selection of Murray's
47:23
cheese. No matter how you shop, Kroger
47:25
has all the freshest ingredients to embrace
47:27
all your holiday traditions. Kroger.
Podchaser is the ultimate destination for podcast data, search, and discovery. Learn More