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Hello. I'm Robin

0:17

Ince. I'm Brian Cox. There's a new series of the

0:19

Infinite Monocade, and we are dealing with things

0:21

like the history of astronomy and the

0:23

changing ideas of the night Sky, spiders,

0:26

or spiders, you did not like spiders, did you?

0:28

We're also gonna be looking at the nature of

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material your face is made of, which, of course, is not

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known anywhere else on the planet Earth. It is

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totally in human, and we're gonna

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be telling you how to commit the perfect

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murder. The up of the monkey cake, listen wherever

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you get your BBC podcasts. My

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wife is a big fan if you will, by the way.

0:50

Hey,

0:50

everybody. It's Tuesday the twenty first of

0:52

February twenty twenty three. And

0:54

in the program, we're going to be talking about it

0:56

as digital planet, by the way. We're going

0:58

to be talking. We haven't got that in yet.

1:00

It's definitely say what the

1:02

program is then carry on. And we're gonna

1:05

be talking about these all these balloons

1:07

that have been spotted, obviously, those suspected

1:09

Chinese spy balloon and others

1:12

that have been spotted in and shot down

1:14

in various air

1:15

spaces. So and we're going to be disappointed.

1:17

Stories and myths and a few

1:20

minutes. Knows what's around there.

1:22

Yeah. Taking the myth out of that story.

1:24

And also, the

1:27

Turkey Syria earthquake

1:30

as well and the role

1:32

of amateur radio and

1:34

indeed the data volunteers in

1:37

that and aiding the relief

1:39

efforts. So we're gonna get to that in literally just

1:41

about thirty seconds. But let's

1:43

do a quick tweet here from Simon

1:46

on Twitter. He's basically Glenn thanking

1:48

us for the program. Oh, isn't that nice?

1:50

Very nice. Thank you, Simon. He says, I

1:52

moved to the Netherlands in twenty eleven.

1:54

Headphones on listening to your podcast

1:56

while walking through the coastal dunes

1:59

saved me for much

2:00

homesickness. Says Simon.

2:03

Oh, that's great. Thank you. Thank you, Simon.

2:05

It's very nice to get those bits of

2:07

stories and little personal some pieces

2:09

from people when they're listening about listening

2:11

to the

2:12

show. Yeah. The listeners went through a phase

2:14

of a while ago of just telling us where they listened to

2:16

the show and it's endlessly fascinating and

2:18

people jogging through parks in in

2:20

in forests in Denmark. I remember that.

2:23

And, you know, on their commute to work and maybe in

2:25

some unusual places as well. So yeah.

2:28

Simon. Thank you for getting that little

2:30

strand going on. But I've overrun from that

2:32

thirty seconds that I

2:33

promised. This has actually gone on for more

2:35

like We've got to do the show No idea

2:37

of timing. That's me. Makes me a very poor

2:39

broadcaster. Alright. Let's do the show

2:41

in that case. Get in. Here it is. I know

2:43

I really will have to stick to my time is because we're live

2:45

on the radio. So how it goes. Here's the shape.

2:48

Hello, everybody. I'm Gareth Mitchell, and this

2:51

is Digital Planet. Today, the technology

2:53

responds to the earthquake in Turkey

2:55

and Northern Syria, including the role

2:57

of emergency radio equipment. Galen

3:00

Boddington is here and Galen were also

3:02

looking at the data side of

3:03

things, aren't we? Yes. Hi,

3:05

Gareth. Yes. We're we're finding out how data

3:08

can literally save lives as

3:11

the emergency response in Turkey and Syria

3:13

continues. Yeah. We'll look in that look at

3:15

that. And separately, with high

3:17

altitude balloons very much in the news these days,

3:19

we're finding out about these objects a little

3:21

bit more about these objects floating above

3:24

our heads. And in Kenya, we're finding

3:26

out about a student converting human

3:28

waste into electricity. Well,

3:30

now two, Turkey and Northern Syria, hit

3:32

by a further six point four

3:34

magnitude earthquake on Monday.

3:37

And has been a large tremor in the region in

3:39

the last few hours as we go on air on Tuesday.

3:41

Alongside human fatalities and casualties,

3:44

the quakes have, of course, damaged power and

3:46

communications infrastructure and

3:48

to restore some comms and

3:50

to aid the relief effort, radio operators

3:52

have been stepping in Volunteers include

3:55

members of the Turkish Radio Amateurs

3:58

association. The association's president

4:01

is retired engineer as he's shasta.

4:04

And that he says that amateur radio, sometimes

4:07

known as HAM radio, allows

4:09

operators plenty of versatility.

4:11

We have frequency allocations in the

4:13

whole spectrum. I mean, they have been

4:15

granted for us that we have possibility

4:18

of experimentation first. And secondly,

4:21

being prepared to such unpleasant

4:23

events like emergencies, you know, having

4:26

those kind of vast possibilities in

4:28

the frequency selection plus variety

4:31

of techniques we use, I mean,

4:33

analog and digital techniques, including

4:36

satellite communication

4:37

we can cope with any kind of problem

4:40

easily. As for your response

4:42

in Turkey then, restoring communication

4:45

and connectivity, In amateur

4:47

radio, I suppose there are two main areas

4:50

of the frequency spectrum that amateurs

4:52

use. You have short wave, which

4:55

is lower down in the spectrum and reaches

4:57

longer distance, but can be a

4:59

bit unpredictable with atmospheric

5:01

conditions. And then there are the higher frequencies

5:04

and we call them VHF and UHF

5:06

that have a shorter range but more

5:09

reliable when they're line of sight.

5:11

Which are you using in Turkey? Mainly,

5:13

I mean, in the field during the rescuer,

5:16

it's VHF and UHF because most

5:18

of the problems have to be solved locally.

5:21

Right. So with VHF and

5:23

UHF, if people have seen

5:25

maybe security guards going around

5:27

with a handheld radio, That's

5:30

the kind of ban that we're talking about.

5:32

And my experience of it is that

5:35

it is more

5:36

reliable, but it is shorter range

5:39

yet you're talking about very big distances

5:41

here, aren't you? I mean, main response

5:44

activity is, say, in

5:46

the circle of one hundred kilometers maybe.

5:48

So we covered that by our repeaters.

5:51

We have nineteen repeaters in that area,

5:53

one only failed. And in the province

5:55

of

5:55

Atai, our repeater was the

5:58

only means of communications for seven

6:00

days. Oh, okay. And that's what I want to get

6:02

to because that the radio sets

6:04

on their own are relatively short

6:06

range, maybe thirty or forty kilometers.

6:09

But these repeaters, these are the key

6:11

important thing, aren't they? And

6:13

I suppose the clue is in the name as

6:16

to what they do, so tell me how a repeater

6:18

allows you to get signals across

6:20

longer distances.

6:22

When I'm talking to the repeaters, it

6:24

retransmits my transmission in

6:26

another frequency and it's heard

6:28

by any station

6:30

which is staying on that frequency. They

6:32

can provide communication distance up

6:34

to five hundred kilometers easily from

6:36

handheld to handheld. I mean, depending on their

6:38

location, And the important thing to say about

6:40

amateur radio is not about giving public

6:43

service announcements. It is absolutely not

6:45

a broadcast medium. Is it? So

6:47

with presumably talking about communications

6:50

between relief workers and

6:53

part of the emergency

6:54

response, tell me more about what you're using

6:56

it.

6:56

What we are doing is a two way communication. Two

6:59

persons speak with each other

7:01

and the others listen to it. I mean, that's

7:04

the essence of it. And several

7:06

agencies share one

7:08

frequency. And if one party

7:11

is giving an information All

7:13

the others also received that

7:14

information, which is very helpful

7:16

in response situations. Is this

7:19

literally the only connectivity you

7:21

have in some areas where, you know, like

7:23

the power networks and and comms networks

7:25

have gone down. Yes. We are

7:27

independent of the goods. That's a

7:29

very, very important thing because after

7:32

such disasters, the national grid

7:34

can get down. And then we can use

7:36

carbon ladies and so on to operate our

7:39

radios. And all the repeaters

7:41

are in areas or in buildings,

7:43

which have also backup power. So that's

7:46

why we can continue without

7:48

problems. What kind of results have

7:50

you had so far in terms of the

7:52

people you've been able to help?

7:53

Well, we we helped saving

7:56

lives. That's, I believe, quite

7:58

a nice thing for

8:00

us. I love that little understatement on

8:02

the end of there. We're yeah. The good thing is we're saving

8:04

lives, which is nice. Says but

8:06

it's so important. It's Nick Colen Boddington.

8:08

And --

8:09

Yes. It is. -- and to see how the the radiometers

8:11

are collaborating together. Yeah. Up Absolutely.

8:13

I mean, it's really interesting seeing the notices

8:16

that go out, actually. If there's a main radio out

8:18

of radio site, isn't that called QRZ

8:20

dot com? Yes. And I looked at

8:22

it today and it and it's got right at the top, it's just

8:25

got dear world radiometers due

8:27

to the massive earthquakes in Turkey,

8:30

twenty eight point 540

8:32

megahertz USB.

8:35

Fourteen at the sidebands at Garothecally.

8:38

Yes. Because the image is whatever what it means. Yeah.

8:40

Definitely. It has been determined as a disaster

8:43

communication frequency, basically

8:45

requesting radiometer to give way to any

8:47

emergency traffic, and that's just

8:49

completely clear. And underneath it,

8:51

there's a whole series of replies. Many

8:53

of them with sadness and prayers for

8:55

the victims of the earthquakes. But one

8:58

reply was very strong. It said every bandwidth

9:00

has a purpose in a

9:02

disaster. Mhmm. And and it does,

9:04

yeah, different strengths of each different

9:06

band, as you said, there could end. So thank

9:08

you. And as he's talking us through our

9:10

very high frequency, VHF and ultra

9:12

high frequency, UHF, and other

9:15

modes of radio transmission. Well,

9:17

not only are the radiometers aiding

9:19

the relief efforts, so are an international band

9:21

of data volunteers. Joining

9:23

us is Cecilia UTs manager

9:26

for the data entry and exploration platform

9:29

or deep for short. And

9:31

Cecilia is also with the Danish refugee

9:33

council. She joins us live so

9:35

deep. Cecilia, welcome to the program,

9:37

by the way, is a collaborative plaque form

9:39

for effective aid responses.

9:42

Tell me more about what deep is.

9:48

Cecilia. Just tell us a little bit more about

9:50

what deep is and what it does. Yes.

9:53

Thank you. Deep is an intelligent

9:55

online platform that is porting collaborative

9:58

humanitarian analysis. It

10:00

is supporting users to collate and

10:02

structure and analyze data in an

10:05

effect and purposeful purposeful

10:06

manner. And

10:07

what kind of data is

10:08

also in Yeah. Sorry.

10:10

didn't mean to cut you off the scene, but what

10:12

kind of data are we talking about? The

10:16

information can be drawn from multiple

10:18

sources. It can be media

10:20

reports. It can be articles. It can

10:22

be other type of reports, assessments,

10:25

and other type of documents in

10:28

any any shape and form, mainly

10:31

text related. I'm not as

10:33

much numbers, so more qualitative

10:35

data. And of course, you work in other humanitarian

10:37

and other aid situations. But in the

10:40

context of Turkey and Syria, you're

10:42

putting out these very valuable reports

10:44

collating a whole load of information that will

10:46

be of great help to, I guess,

10:48

policymakers and aid

10:50

relief workers outline just

10:53

briefly the kind of things that are reported.

10:57

So basically, what we would like to sure.

10:59

It's debriefing that we are sharing with you in turn

11:01

actors is informing them of the severity

11:03

of the situation, identifying the

11:05

vulnerable groups and what are the worst

11:07

hit location so basically ensuring

11:10

that they are receiving timely and accurate information

11:13

as to be able to take quick response

11:15

decision and, in essence,

11:17

saving lives. And Glen

11:19

Boddington, I know you're struck by

11:21

and you're very interested by data. You talk about it

11:24

a lot on this program, the importance of data,

11:26

good data, access to data, Equitable

11:29

Access to

11:30

Data. What do you make the deep platform?

11:32

Well, I I think it's wonderful actually. I've I

11:35

had a big deep dive into

11:37

it actually today. And it's really great

11:39

to see this kind of open source scenario

11:42

where basically it's about collect collating

11:44

together, collective intelligence, which

11:47

can be used as as you say in

11:49

in in the deep resources. You

11:51

know, it's about collaborative projects and

11:54

analyzing together. So

11:58

it's what stands out really is

12:00

this kind of transparency that

12:02

you're trying to aim at Cecilia. And that

12:04

that kind of breaking down the

12:07

kind of fragmentation and duplication

12:09

of stuff that's out there and helping people

12:11

particularly through data visualization. And I

12:13

found the page on Turkey and Syria really

12:16

interesting if it's situational overview

12:19

of the earthquakes. It was

12:21

the best information I'd seen so far actually.

12:23

And so so much more cecilia than just

12:25

reams of text for instance as people may

12:27

may imagine that it could be, so you're not just

12:30

getting the data, but you're interpreting it in

12:32

ways that are valuable. And

12:34

just us to see how this is more than you know, it's not

12:36

just like you're googling for a whole load of spreadsheets

12:38

to do with disasters, are you? It's so much

12:41

more what you're doing with the data in order

12:43

to present it people and make it useful?

12:47

Yes. So basic liquidation processes

12:50

and helping us to structure the qualitative

12:52

data. To be able and to in

12:54

the next step making sense of it.

12:56

And then that

12:59

can be exported for different purposes.

13:02

And the whole idea with making a collaborative

13:04

platform is, of course, that not only

13:08

analyst and the annotators that is

13:10

collating and structuring the data can

13:12

utilize the data. So anyone in

13:15

the term community can then access

13:17

the data and use it for their

13:19

purposes and doing their analysis of that

13:21

same

13:22

data, which is reducing and

13:24

duplicative efforts in that sense. And

13:27

Glenn, they're putting out weekly highlight reports

13:29

as well you've been looking at some. I have and

13:31

I found that very useful too because obviously

13:33

you've got quite a lot of users

13:36

across many countries. think it's across

13:38

seventy countries or so. And many,

13:41

many different users looking at

13:43

your site and looking at all this gathering of

13:45

information about education, about

13:48

food nutrition, needs, health, and the

13:50

weekly highlight reports for

13:52

Turkey, Syria, point out exactly what

13:54

is needed. Yeah. And therefore,

13:56

I guess, where that's where you're drawing in

13:58

the people who've got those resources to possibly

14:01

offer that

14:02

in. Yeah. And Cecilia, is that hearing

14:04

from the communities themselves about the

14:06

kind of data that they would need? Sorry.

14:10

I didn't Yeah. I was just wondering to the extent

14:12

that you work with aid agencies

14:14

who might be coming to you saying, we need this

14:16

data. Can you put this together for us? Or is it

14:18

more that you create the platform, you put the data

14:20

out there, as you say, crucially, you structure

14:22

it. So this is decent data where you've

14:24

done the all important filtering if you like

14:26

and

14:27

structuring. But can people say,

14:29

actually, deep, we need this particular kind

14:31

of data?

14:34

Yes. No. That's Natalie. So we are working

14:36

together with the coordination structure

14:38

on the ground as to ensure that the reliance

14:41

with the people that is actually

14:43

using the the

14:44

information, the briefings, and the

14:46

analyze data for decision

14:48

making, and ensuring that we

14:50

will feel those Alright. Well, there we

14:52

will leave It's Cecilia Ute. Thanks so much for

14:55

speaking to us on digital planet, and we have more,

14:57

by the way, from Cecilia in the podcast edition

14:59

of this program. Alright. Subject

15:02

change

15:02

now, more objects shot

15:04

down over US airspace. Once

15:07

the balloon was detected, the US government

15:09

acted immediately to protect against the

15:11

collection of sensitive information.

15:14

That's Pentagon Press Secretary Brigadier

15:16

General, Pat Ryder, Yes, the US

15:18

has been playing spot the balloon and

15:20

then shoot it down following the

15:23

suspected Chinese spy balloon discovered

15:25

earlier this month. Reports even emerged

15:27

late last week that one flying object destroyed

15:29

by a US fighter jet was a

15:31

mere hobbyist balloon. Surreal

15:34

times. But high altitude communications

15:36

and surveillance platforms aren't always in the

15:38

news, so it's been our chance to find out

15:41

a bit more about them from an expert.

15:43

In this case, professor David Grace,

15:45

head of the challenging environment research

15:48

theme at the University of York in England,

15:50

and he's been telling me more about what

15:52

these high altitude objects are.

15:55

I think what you you need to imagine is

15:57

a very large helium filled

16:00

balloon. And then beneath it,

16:02

there will be what we call a payload,

16:04

which is a bunch of electronics that

16:06

is capable of providing a service, for

16:08

example, wireless communications that will be

16:10

powered by solar power and by

16:12

batteries. The loaders themselves

16:14

are free floating, but there are also

16:17

other forms of what we call high

16:19

altitude platforms, which are either

16:21

airships or aircraft, which

16:24

also sits in the stratosphere

16:26

and can be used for, for

16:28

example, delivering wireless communications

16:30

people might associate balloons

16:32

with the Mongolfier brothers or

16:34

maybe a nice trip with

16:37

their basket in a, you know, a bit

16:39

of champagne on a lovely, sunny

16:41

dusk. They don't necessarily associate

16:44

them with, you know, kind of communication

16:46

or emergency comms or any

16:48

of those kinds of activities. So what

16:51

is it about balloons? What makes them useful

16:53

as platforms for comms

16:55

or other related

16:56

things. I think high altitude balloons

16:58

is what we're really talking about here,

17:00

and they are balloons that are located

17:02

in the stratosphere And

17:05

by being in the stratosphere, they're closer

17:07

than satellites to the ground,

17:09

but far enough away to give you

17:11

a very wide look

17:13

angle, and that means that you can

17:15

serve quite a large area. But

17:17

let's take the communications example. Is

17:20

it then that they might provide mobile

17:22

phone

17:22

coverage? How do they plug into

17:25

the wider Internet or mobile phone network?

17:27

I mean, one of the things that is really

17:29

a unique selling point for them is you

17:31

can use your conventional mobile

17:33

phone for communicating with

17:35

these balloons, and that's different from satellites

17:38

for the most part, where satellites require

17:41

specialist terminal equipment to

17:43

allow you to actually connect into

17:45

the wider Internet. And the way these balloons

17:48

work is they will, for example,

17:50

backhaul via satellite or

17:53

you can backhaul down to the ground directly.

17:56

Both methods are actually in use today.

17:58

How long do they stay up for? How

18:00

long is a piece of string, really? Free

18:03

floating balloons can potentially last

18:05

up to half a year, just effectively

18:07

circling around the globe drifting

18:10

on the winds. In the case of

18:12

high altitude platforms that are aircraft,

18:14

they tend to operate much shorter

18:17

durations, maybe seven days, maybe

18:19

a month. In the case of the airships,

18:21

people are talking about having those up in

18:23

the sky. For maybe

18:25

several years. So it really

18:27

is very variable depending on what

18:29

type of craft you're using and how

18:32

you want to use

18:32

them. So these are platforms that

18:35

at best might stay up for, say,

18:37

few months, and they're floating

18:39

around aren't they? So Doesn't

18:41

that limit their usefulness for any kind

18:43

of reliable or durable communications

18:46

infrastructure? It depends on how many you

18:48

have up in the sky. And for

18:50

example, loom, which was a

18:52

balloon based system that was

18:54

launched couple of years ago, that

18:56

had a hundred and eighty of these

18:59

typically in the air as any one time so

19:01

that if you looked up, you would

19:03

see one of these balloons and that would

19:05

be able to provide the communication

19:07

service for what you need it. And

19:09

that meant that it was very flexible and they

19:11

worked out a way of actually

19:13

keeping them what we would call on station.

19:16

In other words, roughly above where you are

19:18

so that you can actually provide the communications

19:21

until the next one came

19:22

along, and they would use the winds to do that.

19:24

Right? So that's the key point with balloons. They

19:26

would tend to operate as a if

19:29

you like a mesh, a group of

19:30

balloons, you wouldn't perhaps so

19:32

often have a single balloon. That's right. With

19:34

a single balloon, it it's not really useful

19:37

by itself, whereas in the case of the

19:39

other platforms, because they are much better

19:41

at keeping on station, you can actually operate

19:44

these singly or as part of a network

19:46

in the

19:46

sky. It's

19:47

one of their advisers just basically they're obviously

19:49

cheaper to launch they're cheaper to operate

19:51

and build and satellite. It's partly

19:53

that yes. Certainly in the case of the free floating

19:55

balloons, they can be launched very, very

19:58

cost effectively. But it's mainly

20:00

about the types of service that they can

20:02

operate and particularly the aircraft

20:05

and airship based systems they

20:07

can potentially serve many more

20:09

users continuously

20:11

over a given area than, for example,

20:13

a satellite cam. So give us a sense of

20:15

some of the other things that balloons

20:17

in this context might be used for. I know for instance,

20:20

they used as weather

20:20

balloons, we often hear about that. But

20:22

what other use cases might there be? One of the most

20:25

compelling is obviously emergency service,

20:28

disaster relief, potentially also

20:30

serving specific events or underserved

20:33

areas, particularly very rural areas.

20:36

And they can be used obviously for communications,

20:38

but they can also be used for

20:40

mapping, of other forms

20:42

of over the landscape coverage

20:44

really. Alright. That's

20:47

David Gray. So let's come back to you in the studio

20:49

again in Boddington. Some people may be wondering

20:51

Do we know anything at all about this Chinese

20:53

suspected Chinese spy

20:55

balloon? No, we don't. Don't

20:58

even go there guys

20:59

because it's it's only speculation and

21:02

all we know is that it's not the only

21:04

balloon up there. As

21:06

we've been hearing in the meantime. Yeah.

21:08

And however, I mean, spy

21:10

balloons have got a long and fascinating history,

21:12

you know, but they the French were the first to

21:15

successfully use them. In the Napoleonic

21:17

Wars, actually, that long ago seventeen

21:20

ninety four for aerial reconnaissance and

21:22

it really helped them win their conflict with Austria

21:24

because they had superior knowledge of troop movements,

21:27

activities on the ground, etcetera.

21:30

But since then, they have been used for gathering

21:32

intelligence. They've

21:34

kind of shifted names several times, but

21:36

military observation balloons. Even

21:39

between the union and the confederacy in

21:42

the American Civil War in the eighteen sixties

21:44

and in the first World War in the early nineteen

21:47

hundreds, And that's when, in the first

21:49

quarter, when real time information used to

21:51

be started to be passed to the ground

21:53

that was using telephonal telegraph from

21:55

of

21:55

course, his manned balloons at that time.

21:58

Yeah. That's

21:58

right. So that was a very precursor in

22:01

a sense then. Yeah.

22:02

So it's yeah.

22:03

Where does that take us now

22:05

then? Well, there's still used a lot

22:07

for military, and most countries

22:09

have got some military balloons. But actually, what

22:11

we've seen more recently is much better use

22:13

of balloons for social and civic populations,

22:17

particularly for access to internet

22:19

and remote and rural areas and one of those of course

22:21

is project loan, which we

22:23

did cover in August nineteen when

22:25

Ewan, Bill, were in Nairobi You

22:27

actually You did a project down base station.

22:30

You

22:30

did didn't you and was a that

22:32

a really lovely report. And it was

22:34

an r and d project started by Google X

22:36

and it did become its own company,

22:38

although it's closed now. But what

22:40

was really amazing about it was that

22:43

these these groups of balloons would go

22:45

up and the and the example probably the best

22:47

one is Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico,

22:50

where there are thirty balloons that were relaying,

22:53

occasions between ground terminals connected

22:56

to people's handsets, and they

22:58

they their aim was, and I think they managed to

23:00

to bring hundred thousand people online through

23:02

that. So it

23:04

is very sad that it has shut down.

23:07

It was just they had quite a lot of crash

23:09

incidents and it was difficult

23:11

for it to be commercially

23:12

viable. Right. But a wonderful idea,

23:14

yeah, for both for remote rural

23:16

areas, but also for disaster

23:19

disrupting

23:19

bombs and so on. Yeah. Indeed. And you

23:21

even telling me on the way into the studio, there's a a world

23:24

helium crisis as well.

23:25

Yeah. Another topic, but Is it

23:27

Refestorate that in a year. Alright.

23:29

Okay. Now, finally, in

23:32

Leila, probably it's been pumping up all those balloons.

23:34

No. Sorry. Finally, let's go to Layla

23:36

Village in the southwest of Kenya.

23:38

Three wires emerge from behind a block

23:40

of toilets, and the wires run along session

23:42

of wooden poles into some nearby houses.

23:45

Human waste in the toilets produces

23:47

heat, then a thermoelectric device

23:49

converts that heat into electricity and

23:51

then that gets stepped up to main twelve sages

23:53

and is, well, apparently, feeding

23:56

the home of a twenty one year old student

23:58

and his family at Wairumu Guitarhi.

24:01

Why remove Guitar? beg your pardon, has

24:03

met the engineer. And she said

24:05

all about how this began

24:07

with an accident.

24:15

One day, while twenty one year old

24:17

Vincent Otero, was heard in

24:19

sheep in Lena Village in Western Kenya,

24:22

one of the sheep fell into a Pickler Trim.

24:25

And this was the start of an intriguing

24:27

journey.

24:29

When we put the ship out, we found

24:31

the photo of the ship already back. So

24:34

that's where started wondering that we could

24:36

have pushed this back. So the and

24:38

I hear came to me that probably the subgroups

24:41

studying the human waste. Then

24:44

and I hear, she's six again, came to me that

24:47

imagine can be converted from one form there.

24:49

So I started wondering, why can I combat

24:51

this hidden value that is presently

24:55

And that's where the the system that is charging

24:57

to this where it is before else came

24:59

in? When

25:02

this sound comes on, electricity

25:04

is flowing. This is a big

25:06

deal in a village that has never had access

25:08

to electricity. But for

25:10

now, only Vincent and his parents, can

25:13

share in this joy. Official

25:15

permission must be sought from the Kenyan government

25:17

for his neighbors to have

25:19

access. The government monopoly

25:21

over the distribution of electricity in the

25:23

country. Yeah. There's actually around one

25:25

hundred and forty four gig that we I have supplied

25:27

in the three of our homes here. My

25:29

house. This one here, I use this for research,

25:32

for practicing my own inventions.

25:35

Then I also supply the office in the kitchen,

25:37

where my mother is using it for writing. And

25:40

in the

25:40

house, the part of the television and

25:42

the radio is for the brother and

25:44

for Chinese.

25:47

So how does this invention work? So

25:50

this is the tip that's seen from where to this paper.

25:54

So we deep down here the human waste,

25:56

So this pipe here runs deep down

25:58

to the bottom of the hole where I place

26:00

my transducer here. So the transducer,

26:03

that's the combustion of heat energy present

26:05

in the human mass. Directly to

26:07

telephone pin direct current, which

26:10

is then taken out of the of

26:12

the waste via these two cables.

26:14

So this is two point five millimeter

26:16

cable that carries out total voltage DC.

26:19

But if that feeds the two inverters

26:21

in the total voltage DC, which converts

26:24

the total voltage, this is to one hundred and forty

26:26

each. I then connect this one in

26:28

parallel to give me a two hundred and forty

26:31

voltage AC output which

26:33

I passed the device on later

26:34

here, one other switch. The

26:37

two hundred and forty voltages is then taken

26:39

up. For step up

26:41

so that it can be transmitted in the next

26:43

minimum dollars. Vincent is

26:45

a student at Jaramogue, Oginga, Oginga

26:47

University. Dr. Johna Goomba,

26:49

one of his lectures, says that Vincent's

26:51

invention stands out from similar

26:54

inventions

26:55

done in the past. When you talk about electricity

26:57

from a toilet, it seems not new.

26:59

But I can say this particular one is very

27:01

new because many people have worked on these projects

27:04

in the past. Use biogas to

27:06

harness electricity from toilets.

27:09

But this is specific, well, the student

27:11

is not using biogas. It's using

27:13

actually one small one that

27:15

is found in toilets, out

27:18

of the by repetition of the waist.

27:20

And from the world, students is able

27:22

to amplify this small

27:24

voltage levels into very high

27:27

voltage, which is able to serve a

27:29

big area. To build his invention,

27:31

Vincent had to go without some essentials so

27:34

that he could save up to buy the materials. He

27:37

also went looking in dumpsites for scrap

27:39

objects. This invention

27:41

supplies electricity at the same voltage

27:44

as the Canadian government for home

27:46

use. Vincent says his invention

27:48

needs a few improvements to work

27:50

at its optimum. The product is

27:52

working perfectly, but the problem

27:54

is that it is causing hitting the

27:57

margins because of the way

27:59

that it produces in us square. So

28:01

it's like it's causing prices, which

28:03

is not safe for electric upluses. What

28:06

we do currently is that we don't use

28:08

our upluses for long. We

28:10

switch it on when we want to use

28:12

them. And then after, sometimes, we switch

28:14

them off so that they could yeah.

28:17

So that's what we do.

28:19

Alright. That report from Wairiemu, Gattarhi,

28:21

and I'd love to know getting bodies little bit more

28:23

maybe about how he's getting so much

28:25

power out of heat from human

28:27

waste. I'd have thought probably many watts

28:30

rather than the kilowatts you might need, but

28:32

be interested to hear more. But I still love this

28:34

story.

28:35

Yes. Well, I mean, it is, you know, these are young, innovative

28:37

ideas. They're imperative in the world,

28:39

especially when they're emerging from their

28:41

own communities' needs. Yeah. think that's

28:44

wonderful as grass roots out. And

28:46

there is a growing use of biogas, yeah,

28:48

across the world in in many developing

28:50

countries, and that's created by the by

28:52

the residue of human and animal waste.

28:55

It's dried and charred. It's like

28:57

a charcoal equivalent fuel. And

28:59

of course, that's great because it reduces the need

29:01

to destroy forests.

29:02

Yeah.

29:03

Okay. So there's some sustainability there.

29:04

Yeah. That we have to go already. Say sorry. Good

29:06

day in bottling soon. Our studio manager

29:09

is Andrew Garrett. The producer is Hannah

29:11

Fisher this

29:12

week, but we will be back with more.

29:14

In seven days. Yeah. I'll see you then.

29:16

Thank you.

29:18

Alright. Well, let let's carry on then. And

29:21

as additional podcast extra

29:23

material. We can bring you a bit more from

29:25

Mercedes Benz who we heard in the program

29:27

talking about a deep which

29:30

is this collaborative platform

29:32

for effective aid responses, and

29:34

we were talking about the the

29:37

data effort as the we

29:39

go through the aftermath of the earthquake and

29:41

indeed earthquakes in Turkey

29:43

and Northern Syria. Sashida Yitesh

29:46

is manager for the data entry and ration

29:48

platform, all deep. As I've said, there's a cedar.

29:50

I hope III still got that right. And

29:52

thanks very much for staying back.

29:54

And Sasita, I wonder if I can

29:56

ask you about some of the other projects

29:59

that you do because this isn't just

30:01

about Turkey and

30:02

Syria. Is it, for instance, you've got a

30:04

whole load of data about Ukraine? Yes.

30:08

No. Definitely. So in a similar fashion,

30:10

as we responded to the

30:12

earthquake in the Turkey and Syria. He

30:14

also responded in the Ukraine. So

30:17

we managed to establish a team

30:19

that very quickly was down

30:21

then set up

30:23

to collate and manage data as

30:26

to be able to in a regular

30:28

basis

30:29

inform the humanitarian

30:31

actors on the ground of the situation

30:33

in Ukraine. So this seems to be quite

30:35

a hallmark of what you do at deep responding

30:38

to these emergency scenarios,

30:40

obviously, the clues in the name of your platform.

30:43

But would you call yourself like a rapid

30:45

response data platform? Is that it?

30:48

And no, it's it's as much what

30:50

you used in any other type of

30:52

crisis situation, not only in your time contracts,

30:55

it's also due to in development context

30:57

as well. So

30:59

it can basically be used for

31:02

any secondary data

31:03

you, situation analysis, monitoring

31:06

efforts, etcetera. Right.

31:09

So you do work in lots of different areas

31:11

and not just in emergency crisis

31:13

situations. That's good to know. And

31:15

now one thing we didn't get a chance to talk

31:17

about in the radio program was the NLP

31:20

aspects of what you do, natural language

31:22

processing. And given that the whole

31:24

point of your platform is to make

31:26

data usable. I

31:28

guess this is what use it a branch of machine

31:30

learning that helps algorithms

31:32

and ultimately the people using these algorithms to

31:34

pull out insights from

31:37

from words basically from text. So tell me

31:39

a bit more about the role that natural

31:41

language processing plays.

31:45

Yes. So now so basically, if possible,

31:47

we are using machine learning techniques such

31:49

as natural language processing to speed

31:51

up the processes. So it

31:53

can allow then the humans to focus

31:55

on the analysis and decision making

31:57

instead. Mhmm. So we

31:59

are trying then to utilize NLP for

32:02

all of the task that more

32:04

or less can be automatically done.

32:08

So so with what kind of data would

32:10

this be? Might it be from, say, social

32:13

networking platforms or

32:15

government reports that are given out. So

32:17

things that aren't just numbers, basically,

32:20

is it?

32:21

Yes. No. So the the Deepgram overall

32:24

is very much aiming at looking at qualitative

32:26

data. So it is

32:29

in opposite to quantitative data in a

32:31

sense. So it is reports. It could

32:33

be assessment reports. It be media

32:35

articles, it could be social media

32:38

and tweets, for example,

32:41

that is then collated. And

32:43

then reducing the machine learning

32:45

or natural language processing to

32:47

go through all of this vast amount of data.

32:51

And you may have no comment on this and don't

32:53

worry if not, but just in recent weeks

32:56

on the program, we've been talking about Twitter's

32:58

API. And, you know, Twitter's

33:01

plans, I suppose, to make that

33:03

something that people have to pay to use.

33:06

And for instance, a lot in in the people in the

33:08

research community are very worried about it. They

33:10

won't have quite such free access

33:12

potentially to data from

33:14

Twitter. Now we haven't briefed you to talk

33:16

about this particular thing, and I don't know if it's something

33:18

that you're concerned

33:19

about. But just in generally, is that something

33:21

that affects you when platforms change their

33:23

APIs? Yes,

33:26

it would definitely affect us

33:28

directly in different ways. We

33:30

are not really set up to scrape

33:32

either Twitter or media in a sense.

33:35

So that's really not to the way

33:37

that the deep is set up. But definitely, we

33:39

are using APIs to many different

33:41

platforms Fox in the humanitarian

33:43

sector. Right. Okay. And Glenn

33:45

Boddington listening with interest here

33:47

and interesting that the serious

33:50

stress that they're using much

33:52

more qualitative. Tell me if I'm wrong,

33:54

you said qualitative, not so much of the quantitative

33:57

data. It's more text. Than

33:59

numbers on spreadsheets necessarily. Good

34:02

aim. What do you make of that? It's an interesting

34:04

Yeah.

34:04

No. I think that's a highly valuable approach. A very

34:06

valuable approach. And actually, we've

34:09

talked often before about the

34:11

need to use qualitative alongside

34:14

quantitative data for many

34:16

different analysis that

34:19

kind of what we could with soft data

34:21

rather than the hard just facts

34:24

to enable much more community

34:27

decisions to happen, which are actually relative

34:29

to people's lives, not just to, you

34:31

know, this is a date of it, said that this road

34:33

should close or whatever, you know. So

34:36

But I I it'd be really interesting to

34:38

know that I'd say I was a small NGO

34:40

and I set myself up

34:42

to be able to use your your data on

34:44

your site. What would be

34:47

the the the way that I would just

34:49

it would just be a real simple explanation of how

34:51

actually, what I would get up front. Yeah.

34:54

How does it work? Yeah.

34:57

Yes. No. So so again,

34:59

the platform is actually set up to

35:01

be able to support being at a local NGO

35:03

or a larger scale organization as

35:05

well. So you can use it in different

35:07

ways. You can either go into the platform,

35:10

and there you can join any

35:13

project that you find interesting being it and

35:15

the country they're interested in, etcetera, as

35:17

to better understand what data is already available.

35:20

You also have the possibility as any

35:22

user to establish your own project

35:25

where you then define what type

35:27

of analysis you would like to to do and

35:29

then you can start collecting your

35:31

information

35:32

yourself. And you can either, so to

35:34

speak, do that on the backbone on another project,

35:36

or you can start from from scratch for

35:38

your own purposes. So you kind

35:41

of get your own dashboard of different projects

35:43

that you're working in and this

35:45

and this AI A powered

35:47

assisted tagging is linked into

35:49

that. I can pull the tags into so

35:52

I can get the right searches through it.

35:54

Is that right?

35:58

Yes. To some extent, but I would say it's

36:00

more about that you are using

36:02

the AI or the NL to

36:04

be able to, so to speak, annotated

36:07

data that you would like to take. Okay. When it comes

36:09

with the data already tagged, you can

36:11

then filter that and and export

36:13

what is important for you. You do not

36:16

really need AI for

36:17

that. Yeah. Alright. Miss Cecilia,

36:19

thank you for that. We'll we'll keep you on here in our

36:21

our pod cost outflow and hopefully come back to you, but we

36:23

have some other business from the program that

36:25

you may be interested in as well, Cecilia, and feel

36:27

free to comment if you will. But we were also

36:30

talking about these balloons and

36:32

it turns out that there were more of them out there than

36:34

maybe some people thought certainly

36:36

more than the Americans thought, so they wouldn't send

36:38

some f twenty twos out to sort that out.

36:40

So anyway, this is on the back of the

36:43

Chinese or the suspected Chinese

36:46

spying balloon. And so we had a good old

36:48

chat with David Grace the University

36:51

of York, and he was obviously

36:53

talking about the different kinds of balloons

36:55

and high altitude platforms. So we carried

36:57

on chatting to David Grayson. I

37:00

was interested in getting, like, you in the program

37:02

browser, however, I said, you're on digital planet to

37:04

go and see project

37:05

looms. It says Google's --

37:06

Yeah. -- project site. Yeah. LOOM.

37:08

And I was interested in David's take

37:10

on that and we'll hear him discussing that in

37:12

a moment. And I had a few other questions in mind

37:15

as well. What about some

37:17

of your existing research or

37:19

previous research. I know that you've been involved, for instance,

37:22

in something called many.

37:24

I think it's a research project that's

37:26

closed, but I know you've learned a lot from it.

37:28

So perhaps pick that one up for us, if you will.

37:31

Sure. So many stood for mobile

37:33

access, North Yorkshire. So

37:35

it was about how we could provide

37:37

rural area communications. And

37:41

one of the things that we looked at was

37:43

how we could actually use what

37:45

are known as tethered balloons or

37:48

helikites to provide temporary

37:51

event communications and also potentially

37:53

communications for post disaster,

37:56

for example. And anybody who's

37:58

been to North Yorkshire will know that there's quite

38:00

a lot of rural space

38:03

which actually has very, very little mobile

38:05

signal anywhere. So we developed

38:07

a system that could actually be

38:09

fitted at the bottom of a

38:11

heliKite that would provide 5G

38:14

communications. We use that

38:17

to test different types of application,

38:19

for example, the mounting rescue

38:21

service was using that to

38:23

test out whether you could actually provide

38:26

coverage in a very very

38:28

rural underserved

38:29

valley. Alright. So ideal for a rural environment.

38:32

And I can see that this was about it being

38:34

a research platform. So I guess,

38:36

presumably, if you wanted to see how five g was working,

38:38

it's a lot quicker and easier and cheaper and more

38:40

perhaps than just pulling up a whole load of temporary

38:42

masts. It's not all over the landscape. You can

38:44

do it much more easily with the tethered balloon.

38:47

Exactly. So we were using what was known

38:49

as a soft by defined radio based system,

38:51

which is a piece of hardware that you

38:53

can actually load software on that

38:55

changes how that operates. And

38:57

we were able to say, well, today, we want

38:59

to make it a 5G base station. You know, tomorrow,

39:01

we could actually make it a 4G base station.

39:03

And that was then connected in a backhauled

39:06

via satellite to allow connectivity

39:09

into these rural valleys that have never

39:11

really been served with A5G mobile signal

39:13

before. What about the practicalities of tethering

39:15

it in the first place because you are talking about a very

39:18

long piece of rope or wire or

39:20

whatever you're

39:20

using. Yeah. So our tether was about five

39:22

millimeters in diameter but

39:25

really, really strong. And running

39:27

up the tether, we also actually had an optical

39:29

fiber as well. The tether itself, we went

39:31

up to only about a hundred meters

39:33

altitude. So it's much, much lower altitude

39:36

than the stratospheric platforms

39:38

we were talking about earlier. But

39:40

actually, that still enabled us to have

39:42

very, very good coverage over

39:44

several kilometers around the actual

39:47

helikite itself. And the Helikite

39:50

is relatively small. We're talking a few meters

39:52

across, so it can actually

39:54

be stored in the back of a van

39:56

and then inflated actually on-site

39:59

where it's needed within about

40:01

half an hour. And then you can just winch

40:04

it up to the altitude that you want to pinch

40:06

it up

40:06

to, then bring it down when it's

40:08

ready. Right. So easy. But

40:11

I say so easy as as if you just as

40:13

if it was. I'm sure there are many practicalities on-site,

40:15

but I know what you mean in in principle that you can just

40:17

do that. Also, what about

40:20

Project Loon? I'm bringing that up because

40:22

this was Google's project to deploy

40:24

every like a network of balloons

40:27

providing comms. And I think their

40:29

idea was to give communications

40:32

to people in remote regions or

40:34

disaster zones, etcetera. I'm just bringing

40:37

you up, David, because I know you're interested given

40:39

your research. But also, we were there few years

40:41

ago with digital planet. We went to

40:43

one of the ground stations in Nairobi

40:46

when Project Loom was still

40:47

running. So it didn't

40:49

work out though. Did it in the end? What I

40:51

would say is I think it worked really well

40:53

from technical viewpoint. They were able

40:56

to make sure that there were

40:58

sufficient numbers of balloons available

41:00

on station and they were able to

41:02

provide communications to

41:04

those that needed it when they needed it.

41:06

Where it was challenging though

41:08

was actually to make the economic

41:11

case for it to actually work. Loan

41:13

system was very basic. It allowed

41:16

just a few communication cells

41:19

to be served from a single balloon.

41:21

And that limited the capacity of the

41:23

system and it limited the number

41:26

of subscribers to the system. And

41:28

that meant that you couldn't actually

41:30

bring in enough revenue from the

41:32

actual fleet of balloons to

41:34

pay for itself. But I know

41:36

for a fact that loom are very

41:38

keen to allow that technology to

41:40

go into the wider research

41:43

and development space so that it can be built

41:45

on for future applications

41:47

to take that forward. And one way that could be

41:49

done and we've looked at it is to put

41:52

many more cells per platform

41:55

onto that type of

41:56

craft. And in that way, you can

41:58

actually serve many more users and you can make

42:01

it much more cost effective. There

42:03

you go. That is David Grace. Speaking

42:05

about cost effectiveness when it comes

42:07

to balloons and things high

42:09

in the sky. And I

42:12

mentioned in the introduction to that item

42:14

in the radio program that's a hobbyist balloon,

42:16

and had actually been possibly,

42:20

there's no confirmation of this, but it

42:22

is thought and reported that a

42:24

hobbyist balloon was one of those that was

42:26

shot down. Night. Sidewinder

42:29

missiles launched from F twenty two fighter

42:31

jets. Slightly one-sided back life.

42:34

I feel really.

42:36

Very definitely. But it it was actually one of

42:38

the questions that I've had from listening to all the

42:40

staff and reading everything is very

42:42

clearly, it These balloons are hooked

42:44

up to mobiles. Yeah. And the mobile

42:46

connects, obviously, satellite or through the

42:48

ground, to enable it to work.

42:51

Doesn't that mean that it can really

42:53

be done by

42:53

anyone? And isn't that the hobbyist route

42:56

to it? Yeah. Well, that's and it's really quite quite

42:58

interesting. I mean, I suppose one of the barriers

43:00

to entry as it were is just being able to launch the

43:02

balloon in the first place and different countries will have

43:04

their own aviation and

43:06

airspace for instance. Yeah. They probably

43:09

don't launch one near a major international

43:11

airport kids, I think.

43:13

Too many electric wires. Yes. Indeed.

43:16

Let's think about the safety aspect. Yeah. So I'd

43:18

imagine that would be one thing if

43:20

you're presenting one of these things that you'd need

43:22

to check with the aviation authorities in

43:24

your

43:25

country. Yeah. I have

43:26

feeling they'd probably say we'd rather you didn't

43:28

do that. Mhmm. But nonetheless,

43:30

but certainly in terms of the access to the technology,

43:32

it's relatively cheap technology. And

43:35

the kind of payloads you can put onto them. And

43:37

I don't think that every amateur could just have

43:39

some backhaul into the mobile phone network

43:42

straight into one of the mobile phone providers.

43:44

But nonetheless, obviously, the even

43:46

at amateur level, you can get access to satellite

43:49

connections from some kind of high altitude.

43:51

Yeah. And we'll see more and more of that as

43:53

the technology that you

43:55

can launch as payload since these balloons

43:57

becomes cheaper and lighter

44:00

and more able to be powered with things

44:02

like

44:03

sailors, so you don't need to put a holiday

44:05

to have that place on there. And as David said,

44:07

you know, with with less than a hundred dollars,

44:09

I think he mentioned a little bit of kit

44:11

At one point, it was little bit of kit in a hundred

44:13

dollars. And actually, this

44:16

this light to load partly

44:18

due to Microtech advance is, yeah,

44:20

much smaller and smaller cameras and

44:22

smaller and smaller

44:24

little bits expected to go on it. And you have the

44:26

likes of Raspberry Pi and Arduino. Yes.

44:28

Say that people can very readily

44:30

get a hold of these things that are essentially circuit

44:32

boards. I mean, they are computers. They're they're fully fledged

44:34

computers certainly in the case of the Raspberry Pi,

44:36

but you can get them on a little circuit board and

44:39

do all kinds of things with

44:40

them. But do you want to I've been looking a bit more into

44:42

this hobbyist balloon that got a shot?

44:43

Oh, yes. I'd like to know. Definitely, please.

44:46

Yes. Yeah. And So this was

44:48

it was one of these like Pico balloons.

44:51

So in the hobbyist community, there's this whole thing

44:53

about putting a Pico meme, something very, very small,

44:55

and so they are there's a small

44:58

sized projects that

45:00

amateurs do. And there's an amateur radio

45:02

connection, would you believe it? Right.

45:05

And I There has to be. Well, there

45:07

has to be and to be honest, I haven't

45:09

been aware of this either is, and I've been to haven't

45:11

to radio for few years now. So I've been learning

45:13

about this. But so radio emitters what they

45:15

do is they get one of these picob balloons. They

45:17

put a transmitter on this balloon. It's called

45:19

a whisper, which is actually WSPR. Stands

45:22

for a weak signal propagation reporter.

45:24

Less than a hundred dollars. It's just a little circuit

45:27

board. It's GPS in there. Out and

45:29

yes. Yeah. And it just scalks out GPS

45:31

coordinates on a regular basis, and the amateur

45:33

radio people track it with their antennae wherever

45:36

they are in the world. And there's a network of amateur

45:38

radio operators so they can track one

45:40

of these things over intercontinental distances

45:43

if it comes to that. So this particular

45:45

object was Well,

45:47

this is all reportedly okay. So I'm gonna

45:50

stress that. We don't have confirmation on this, but

45:52

there is a radio club that

45:54

says that this particular object

45:56

matches up the one that was shot down. Right.

45:59

The tracking data they have on their pico

46:01

balloon and the balloon, it's

46:03

even got its own call sign. K9Y0

46:06

or kilo nine Yankee Oscar. And

46:08

they have reported this obvious

46:11

club that Kilo

46:13

nine Yankee Oscar is missing in action

46:15

after a hundred and twenty three days and eighteen

46:17

hours of flight. It was somewhere over

46:19

the Yukon in Western Canada.

46:23

And then it disappeared at around the

46:25

same time that there was some f twenty two

46:27

side winder missile

46:29

activity. So might just

46:31

be a coincidence. That's all I and they are saying.

46:33

There are many stories coming out of this, but

46:35

and there we are. There are balloon tracking like

46:37

instead of flight

46:38

tracking, a balloon flight tracking. Yes.

46:40

There's

46:41

some balloon tracking app. Yeah.

46:43

Someone will cope with those. It will it will happen.

46:45

Yes. Yeah. So There we

46:47

are. Well, on that balloon related

46:49

notes, that might do us for this particular intro.

46:52

So it's okay. And Sasidia,

46:54

if your microphone is still up, just to say a

46:56

very fond thank you for joining us as

46:58

well. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on

47:00

the podcast.

47:01

Yes. It has. Yes. Yeah.

47:03

Keep us informed with what you're doing with deep c

47:05

Cecilia. Thank you so much.

47:08

Thank you too.

47:09

There you are. Thanks a lot, Cecilia. And

47:11

to you, dear listener, and we'll be back next

47:13

week. Take care. Bye.

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