0:34

Hello and welcome to the Digital Works podcast

0:37

, the podcast about digital stuff in

0:39

the cultural sector . My

0:45

name's Ash and today's episode of the podcast

0:47

episode 47 , is a special

0:49

Digital Works Conference preview episode

0:52

of Bytes . I spoke to three

0:54

of our speakers Hilary Knight , Seb

0:56

Chan and Aled John to hear a

0:58

bit more about what they're going to focus on in their sessions

1:00

and also what they're looking forward to at the conference

1:03

more generally . Enjoy , generally

1:06

Enjoy

1:08

. You

1:14

have just come back from South by Southwest . You

1:16

are quite jet lagged , so we

1:19

will start with my second question first

1:21

, which is we've got a two-day conference

1:24

in Leeds looking at digital stuff in the

1:26

cultural sector . What are

1:28

you looking forward to about the Digital Works

1:30

Conference ?

1:31

There's lots I'm looking forward to . I have

1:33

to confess , generally when I come to conferences

1:35

, the main thing I'm looking forward to is the tea breaks , and

1:38

that's not because I'm a slacker , that's because

1:40

usually where the most useful conversations

1:43

happen , that's when you connect with the

1:45

people that you come there to see and

1:52

you can follow up with speakers and you can discuss what you've all just heard and you

1:54

hear everybody's reflections and you hear what everybody else is up to , and you know that's quite

1:56

often some of the most inspiring and stimulating

1:58

kind of conversations happen over

2:01

a coffee or , frankly , at the bar . And I have

2:03

to say it was the same at South by Southwest . So I've got great

2:05

hopes for digital works . Having said

2:07

that , of course , there are lots and lots of sessions

2:09

that I'm really looking forward to . Loads

2:11

of brilliant speakers are coming . I

2:14

suppose , just really rolling my eyes

2:16

down the schedule really fast , I'm

2:18

really struck by how many smart women

2:21

are going to be speaking , which I'm

2:23

always delighted to see , and I'm especially looking

2:25

forward to people like hearing from Carty

2:27

Price and Anna Rafferty and Claire

2:29

Reddington . They're always really intelligent

2:32

and insightful discussions and I

2:34

learn something from them every time they speak . But

2:36

also , on a personal note , I've never seen

2:38

Seb Chan speak in person and I'm

2:40

really looking forward to that . Hey , seb , I'm looking

2:43

forward to meeting you . But yeah , you

2:45

can tell I'm jet-lagged , I'm slightly overhyped .

2:47

I may have overdone the caffeine this morning , sorry that's

2:50

fine , because it's 10 am in the UK at the moment

2:52

. Your body thinks it's about three o'clock in the morning

2:55

, so caffeine is completely acceptable

2:58

in massive quantities necessary

3:00

absolutely but I do think it's interesting that you

3:02

sort of you identified the tea breaks

3:04

, the coffee breaks because Digital

3:06

Works sort of grew out of my

3:10

experience of all of the best conversations

3:12

I'd had at conferences were over

3:14

lunch , they were in a coffee break , they were traveling

3:16

from one session to another session , they were at

3:19

the social thing in the evening , and

3:22

that has always been something we've tried to

3:24

sort of hold space for in

3:26

our Digital Works events , and that's certainly true of the conference

3:28

. There are lots of coffee breaks . We've got

3:30

a proper lunch break , we've got a social

3:33

organised . You know , and

3:35

I think , as you've said , events

3:37

like this in-person events it's

3:39

as much about the other people in the audience

3:41

as it is what's happening on the stage

3:44

. And you know it's really exciting to see

3:46

the breadth of people

3:48

that are booking tickets . You know the way

3:50

that we're setting up the space . You won't all

3:52

be sat in rows , you will be sat

3:54

around tables so you'll be able to have conversations

3:57

with more than just the people sat to

3:59

your left and your right . And you know

4:01

that's what I'm really looking forward to is to see

4:03

what happens in the month , six

4:05

months , 12 months after this conference

4:07

. That's sort of catalyzed by conversations

4:10

that happen at the Leeds City Museum

4:12

.

4:13

Right , exactly Because those kinds of

4:15

connections also you know it's ultimately

4:17

everybody is network

4:19

building . I mean , networking is this slightly

4:21

icky thing but through those conversations quite naturally

4:23

sort of building and strengthening

4:25

an ecosystem of people who are all working

4:28

in this space and sharing knowledge and sharing skills

4:30

, and that can only be a good thing absolutely

4:32

and more specifically

4:34

, you are going to be one of those things

4:37

happening on stage .

4:38

you're taking part in a panel with nick

4:40

sherrod and helen page and fran

4:42

sanderson looking at funding

4:45

and partnerships and specifically how

4:48

digital maybe opens

4:50

up new opportunities or different ways of entering

4:52

those conversations , sort

4:55

of from your AEA perspective

4:57

, what are you hoping that that conversation will

4:59

touch on and look at ?

5:01

I'm really looking forward to this conversation because I'm hoping it's one

5:03

of the conversations I'm going to learn from while I'm actually

5:05

in it . We're doing a lot of thinking about

5:08

business model innovation and

5:10

this speaks exactly to that this panel

5:12

. It's not going to surprise anyone . We all know

5:15

the funding environment is incredibly difficult here in the

5:17

UK , but funding for arts

5:19

and culture around the world , and certainly the

5:21

Western world , is shifting . Public

5:24

funding is in decline and certainly

5:26

in the UK has been for over a decade

5:28

now . But also , looking at grants

5:31

and foundations and

5:33

philanthropic funding , their focus

5:35

has changed as well and what they're ready and

5:37

willing and interested in funding , what

5:39

their priorities are , has changed . So

5:42

cultural institutions , how they

5:44

are funded and how they generate

5:46

income whether that's contributed or earned

5:49

income has to adapt and has to change

5:51

. And that's post-COVID thing

5:53

, it's also an inflation thing , it's also

5:55

a big macroeconomic thing and

5:58

there are lots of different ways of

6:00

approaching this problem and discussing it and I'm really

6:02

hoping that we'll be able to get through those in

6:04

the time that we have on stage . You know thinking about

6:06

from the role of digital

6:08

in generating more

6:11

contributed income to how

6:13

organisations can think about

6:15

their business model and innovating their business

6:17

model to create more earned income

6:19

opportunities to corporate

6:22

and foundation-based partnerships , and

6:24

working in partnership with other organisations , and

6:27

particularly the corporate space .

6:28

You know there are lots and lots of different ways of approaching it , so

6:30

I'm hoping that's what we're going to dig into and

6:33

that's what I'm hoping to hear more about myself

6:35

yeah , and I think you know , one of the exciting

6:37

things for me is the conversation

6:39

about money , particularly in the UK at the moment

6:41

is , you know , if it's not first on the agenda

6:43

, it's second on the agenda , and what I'm really looking

6:46

forward to is we've got all of those different

6:48

perspectives in the room . We've got funders , we've

6:50

got people from corporates , we've got people from technology

6:53

partners , we've got people from consultancies

6:55

like AEA , we've got people from cultural organizations

6:58

and also we've got perspectives

7:00

from other countries . You know , people from the

7:02

Netherlands and Canada and the US

7:05

and Sweden and Denmark and France

7:07

and Australia and Hong Kong will all be in

7:09

the room and I think it's

7:11

really interesting to have these types

7:13

of conversations with perspectives from lots

7:16

of different countries and different

7:18

funding models .

7:19

Absolutely , and there's a ton to learn from that

7:21

kind of breadth of perspective . And

7:23

you know , this is something

7:25

that the sector as a whole is grappling with

7:27

. So there's always going to be something to learn

7:29

from other people . But also , I

7:31

think , there's something that comes out of discussing

7:33

it in a more discursive space . We're back to the

7:35

tea breaks , because what we're talking about

7:37

is how we adapt

7:39

business models and operating

7:42

models , how organizations are going to have to change

7:44

how they do things and why

7:46

they do things and how they approach the things to

7:48

kind of adapt to this . But it's important . Money

7:50

is always going to be the top concern , because without it

7:52

you can't do any of the things that we all want to

7:54

do and that we're all set up to do . And it's

7:57

that kind of business model adaptation and operating

7:59

model adaptation I'm especially interested

8:01

in , obviously , because that's kind of what we do at AEA

8:03

.

8:04

Brilliant . Well

8:18

, thanks so much , hilary . I'll

8:20

see you in Leeds Pleasure , looking forward to it . Before

8:24

we talk about what you're looking forward to , seb , what are you going to be talking

8:26

about when you give your keynote at the end of day one ? It's a very good

8:28

question .

8:29

I think you know I'm going to be talking a

8:32

lot about where we are in

8:34

the landscape of

8:36

technology and media as

8:38

cultural orgs now , where

8:41

we've come from and how the

8:43

moment has changed and

8:45

we need to ensure

8:47

that we don't lose sight of what

8:50

we want to make possible and

8:52

for whom and how , and that that

8:54

is perhaps quite different to how

8:57

we might have thought about things five

8:59

years ago , 10 years ago and certainly

9:01

at the end of last century

9:03

. And I think that optimism

9:05

that we had , and

9:08

for many of us and many of the people

9:10

who are speaking at the conference , that optimism

9:12

has soured in the last five to 10 years

9:14

and that has become

9:17

now a souring across

9:19

, across

9:29

our communities at large , but that we do need to ensure that we do have an ongoing curiosity

9:31

about what technology makes possible , but

9:33

also how that might manifest

9:36

in how leadership of cultural

9:38

orgs imagine and

9:41

then lead into that

9:43

curiosity so that our organizations

9:46

are able to engage

9:49

with and deliver the kinds of

9:51

things that our constituents

9:53

, our citizens , our

9:55

audiences , our artists

9:58

and creators that we work with

10:00

expect and need us to do

10:02

. And I'll be drawing a lot

10:04

on the lessons

10:07

learned , I guess , over the last little

10:09

while in my various roles , but

10:11

also throughout the programs

10:14

that I've been running with cultural

10:16

leaders around Australia and the

10:18

Pacific , but also in discussions

10:21

with many others around the world

10:23

around how do we move

10:26

the sector forward but

10:28

also not always be a follower

10:30

of the ?

10:32

latest tech hype . Yeah , and I think

10:34

you know , when we've talked about this session

10:36

and we've talked on the podcast , that idea

10:38

of imagining different

10:40

possible futures feels increasingly

10:42

sort of urgent , given all the various

10:45

challenges the sectors in all countries

10:47

is facing . It's so critical .

10:49

You know , I think it's such a critical

10:51

thing and I think that's really what I'm excited

10:53

to be in Leeds

10:56

for is actually to connect again

10:58

with heaps of these folks

11:01

who I've known , some for nearly

11:03

20 years and others I'll be meeting for the

11:05

first time , but that sort

11:08

of sense of that . There are a lot of really

11:10

shared challenges

11:12

here , but we all have slightly different

11:14

contexts we operate in and

11:17

there's a lot we can learn from each other

11:19

around the

11:21

contextual specificities

11:24

that make some things

11:26

possible in some organizations

11:28

, some things impossible

11:30

in some organizations and some

11:32

things just hard . But

11:34

some of the things that are hard are really worth persisting

11:37

with and I think also some of the methodologies

11:40

we use are very transportable

11:43

across different domains , and I guess

11:45

that's really the thing that I've

11:47

realized more over my

11:49

career obviously having feet

11:51

in lots of different parts of well

11:53

, I have lots of feet , it turns out , but many

11:56

arms , many tentacles in lots of

11:58

pies , or whatever the

12:00

terrible metaphor might be . There's

12:02

lots of lessons across different types

12:04

of cultural practice , different

12:06

organizational sizes and scales

12:09

and different

12:11

networked technologies have

12:14

had the effect of connecting us

12:16

up better , but not

12:18

necessarily enabling

12:20

us to collaborate better

12:22

. Despite all , the

12:25

collaborate differently is probably a

12:27

better way of saying it .

12:28

Great Well , Seb , safe travels

12:30

and we'll see you in Leeds . You will indeed

12:32

. Hello

12:50

alid .

12:50

I'm looking forward to having a quick chat with you about this

12:52

conference that we are both involved with .

12:53

I'm really looking forward to it as well . So ft strategies

12:55

are sponsoring the event and you are actually

12:58

speaking in two sessions

13:00

. You're moderating a panel session and you're

13:02

also giving one of the keynotes on

13:05

Wednesday , the 24th , in the morning , so

13:07

maybe we'll start with the keynote . What

13:10

are you going to be talking about

13:12

? What are you going to be looking at ? What are you going to be discussing

13:14

?

13:14

Sure , well , first of all , thank you for having me . I'm really

13:16

looking forward to the conference because I'll tell

13:18

the attendees , I guess , a little bit about FT strategies

13:20

, but really the main focus is how

13:23

the FT , the Financial Times , transformed

13:25

itself and its fortunes

13:27

, I guess , and its ability to sustain

13:30

itself over a number of years

13:32

. And I guess the lessons that can be extrapolated

13:34

from that are quite important and

13:36

they're very useful and very practical

13:39

and relevant for other sectors

13:41

, in particular ones which are , I

13:43

guess , as many are exposed to

13:45

structural or existential challenges

13:47

to do with changes in consumer behavior

13:50

, the impact of technology , the challenges

13:52

of capabilities in the organizations , et

13:54

cetera , et cetera . So , yeah , I think there's an

13:56

incredibly interesting story to tell there for the

13:58

Financial Times , where I work , and how

14:00

to innovate through those challenges and what it takes for

14:02

a big legacy organization to do so

14:04

. I think that's the healthy

14:07

dose of pragmatism and reality

14:09

, hopefully , that I can bring , but really looking forward to the event

14:11

, yeah , and I'm interested

14:14

.

14:14

One of the reasons I asked you to speak is because

14:16

it does feel that the FT's digital

14:19

transformation has been a genuine transformation

14:21

. It's not just about having a nicer website

14:23

or offering a bit of digital stuff . It

14:25

feels like the organization

14:28

has completely changed from

14:30

top to bottom culturally , mindset

14:32

, business model , you know , editorial

14:34

model all of these things have transformed

14:36

yeah , they have , and

14:38

there's still work to be done , right .

14:39

But I guess what is interesting about the financial

14:42

times is from an external perspective . It is one of the

14:44

most well-established heritage

14:46

brands , if you like , in the news publishing space

14:48

, but but also just full stop

14:50

in the uk media market

14:53

, and it is seen as both a

14:55

almost a cultural institution as much

14:57

as as it is , a provider

14:59

of incredibly trustworthy news

15:02

and opinion and commentary and everything else . I

15:07

guess there is a benefit to having a real burning platform underneath you , which is you need

15:09

to make decisions pretty bloody quickly to change your organization

15:11

, and the FTE is placed

15:13

some very extraordinary and well-foresighted

15:16

bets , if you like , on where they thought

15:19

the business needed to get to , and in

15:21

truth , I think their hands were slightly tied right . They

15:23

knew they had to change because if they didn't , the economics

15:25

around their business would not allow

15:28

it to sustain itself . That's

15:30

not a new story . In many ways , I think what's

15:32

interesting about the FT is it is a heritage brand

15:34

, it's a legacy that's been around for a very long time

15:37

and probably one which you wouldn't necessarily

15:39

associate with kind of top

15:41

to bottom , nose to tail , digital

15:44

transformation and , as you say , there

15:46

are many parallels that could be deduced from that , if

15:49

you like , to arts and culture . We

15:51

at FT Strategies take some of those lived lessons

15:53

to organisations in the cultural

15:55

space . There's also many other

15:57

differences , right , it's not the case

15:59

that many arts organizations can completely

16:02

upend their business model to

16:04

be fully focused on digital and

16:06

not that the FT is , by the way , because print and

16:08

live experiences and convening forums

16:10

and events and otherwise are all very much

16:13

part of the mix . But I guess what

16:15

it realized was getting closer to

16:17

an understanding of customer need , user

16:19

need , the benefits of a scalable

16:21

business model which didn't rely solely

16:23

on in-person or physical assets

16:26

like a print distribution , had

16:28

a lot of opportunity for the FT , I guess

16:30

. So the organization took many

16:32

years to kind of shift the tanker , if

16:34

you like . I guess , where we come

16:37

from FT Strategies , that is , we extract

16:39

that and we take it to other organisations

16:41

so they can learn from it and hopefully do it in

16:43

a much quicker way . What was 20 years

16:45

for the FT can be a lot quicker for organisations

16:47

that the FT supports now . But

16:50

I think it's a very interesting story to tell .

16:51

You're also chairing a panel discussion

16:54

in the afternoon of day one , so

17:02

we'll also be hearing from Oliver from the audience agency , we'll be hearing

17:04

from Christina , who works at the Royal Opera House , and Katie , who's at the

17:06

People's History Museum , and that session is focused on data . You know , working

17:08

digitally gives you a mountain of data

17:10

, a mountain of potential insights , but

17:12

you know , we hear all the time cultural organisations

17:15

often struggle to know where to start to

17:17

actually make use of all of that stuff

17:19

, and that's what your afternoon

17:21

session will be focused on . What

17:24

particular areas are you interested in digging

17:26

into in that chat ?

17:27

it's such an interesting topic because it befuddles

17:29

a lot of people and , depending on the organization

17:31

you're in , there are different views

17:34

as to the utility of quote-unquote

17:37

data to To some people it's

17:39

a massive enabler and , to be fair , I think

17:41

most people and most leaders grasp

17:43

that . But looking through the soup

17:46

of data that any activity frankly

17:48

, physical or digital that is created

17:50

and digital does give you the opportunity to see so

17:52

much more is one of the biggest challenges of the time

17:55

, in a way , and extracting , to

17:57

put it in a , I guess , quite a boring

17:59

way , the metrics that matter to any organization and

18:01

all the data that underpins those metrics

18:03

, and really simplifying it so that it's actionable

18:06

, again focusing on the practicalities

18:08

and the pragmatism that's required to make it

18:10

actionable . That in itself is a really

18:13

interesting challenge for any organization to grapple

18:15

with . So simplifying it , making

18:17

, making it understandable , how you then disseminate

18:19

it and make it actionable and consistent

18:22

and consistently applied is a really interesting and

18:24

important challenge to solve

18:27

for , and it's one that the ft has done a

18:29

lot of work on , as you can appreciate , and with

18:31

any kind of editorial or creatively

18:33

driven organization and

18:36

it's definitely fair to say , the newsroom is , you

18:38

know , the driving force of the ft- as it is

18:40

with many media organizations , and same

18:42

would be said , I'd imagine , of cultural institutions

18:44

and the creative force within them . How

18:47

you take into consideration data , into

18:49

decisions that editorial

18:51

or creatively driven orgs have

18:53

to make , is an ongoing

18:55

opportunity and challenge , I think , for any player

18:58

in the space . So , yeah , I would love to get

19:00

into all of that with those incredible panelists

19:02

that you've got on the panel , ash

19:04

.

19:04

Fantastic and away from

19:07

your sessions . What else

19:09

are you looking forward to at

19:11

the conference ? Are there other speakers you're particularly

19:13

interested to hear from , or you

19:15

know just the fact that there's two days

19:17

, several hundred digital professionals

19:20

all coming together to be together in a museum

19:22

in leeds ?

19:22

well , that is also great and genuinely

19:25

. Actually , that's probably the key point for me , which is , I

19:27

think many industries do their best

19:29

work when they try to take into consideration

19:32

external stimulus and lessons

19:34

and best practice from other areas , and so there's

19:36

some incredible attendees and speakers across

19:38

the conference . So , whether it's from a funding

19:41

perspective and understanding how the funding models are

19:43

adjusting or how digital is being adopted

19:45

in different spaces entirely like

19:47

we have a speaker from the Lego group that

19:49

is , for me , going to be particularly exciting because there

19:52

will be ripe opportunity to share useful

19:54

insights . The main thing for me is making

19:56

sure it is a , as I said you've

19:59

heard the word a few times a

20:02

really practical couple of days where people can walk away with very clear

20:04

ideas to how to improve or evolve

20:06

their businesses . But yeah

20:08

, it will be a , as we say in the

20:10

trade , a learning experience , because that's

20:13

why I'm there to learn from many others and hopefully

20:15

share a few ideas of my own Brilliant

20:17

. Wow , I there to learn from many

20:19

others and

20:23

hopefully share a few

20:25

ideas of my own .

20:26

Brilliant well , I'll see you in leeds , can't wait . Thanks

20:28

for listening to this episode of bytes . You

20:30

can find all episodes of the podcast on our website

20:33

at the digital dot works

20:35

, where you can also find more information

20:37

about our events and sign up to the newsletter

20:39

. Our theme tune is

20:42

Vienna , beat by Blue Dot Sessions . And

20:44

, last but not least , thanks to Mark Cotton

20:46

for his editing support on this episode . See

20:50

you again soon .