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O S on the show

1:01

where we help you save

1:03

dinner or whatever you're cooking.

1:05

I'm Chris Morocco food director

1:07

of Bon Teeth and Epicurious

1:09

and today I am joined

1:11

by Damn Pacman. You might

1:13

recognize dans voice and iconic

1:15

laugh for them from his

1:17

work posting the Sport for

1:19

podcast. Bore you might know him

1:21

from. The pasta shape he developed casket

1:23

tell me which was one of

1:25

Time Magazine's best inventions of Twenty

1:27

Twenty One later in the showed

1:29

down and I will answer some

1:32

listener questions but first I wanted

1:34

to talk. Pasta. You

1:37

know, most the time I kind of come

1:39

in here. I just wing it you

1:41

know? But with you I was like oh

1:43

I need to do some research. I gotta

1:46

get the lay of the land of very

1:48

honored yeah I I ate casket tally. Great.

1:51

I hadn't done before like I'd seen

1:53

it right? but I don't know. It

1:55

wasn't necessarily stocked everywhere that I my

1:57

by pasta but the other day it.

2:00

The in a local market in Bantam,

2:02

Connecticut think it was Price just under

2:04

five dollars. guy. I had just listen

2:06

to most of Mission Impossible and loved

2:08

the background on it. You know just

2:10

how much effort it took for you

2:13

to bring that into the world and

2:15

I thought it was really good. Thank

2:17

you. Yes, I mean legit. Yeah, I

2:19

mean there were so many ups and

2:21

as the process of making it and

2:24

a little the initial impulse was really

2:26

more like I want to sell an

2:28

epic story on the sport for podcasts.

2:30

And there was like what have I meant

2:33

of food ever say to my producer Emmett

2:35

certain points we just what needed to go

2:37

read either really, whether really poorly and either

2:39

one of those a make for a good

2:41

story of a synthesis. The fact that it

2:43

and of going really well with sort of

2:46

some combination of of grit and luck I

2:48

think Now and it and it really Honestly

2:50

for everyone out there, it's really fun. Listen,

2:52

because it turns out that inventing your own

2:54

past the same isn't As does it sound

2:57

easy? I don't know. Will Spoiler alert, It's

2:59

not easy. Best. And it's good. I mean

3:01

no less an authority than my eleven year

3:03

old son said. it was the best pasta

3:05

he had ever had. Wow. You know,

3:07

I don't know that he was speaking hyperbolically

3:10

like I think he might have been on

3:12

to something. From the standpoint of Key, the

3:14

kid who prefers as pasta sauce with butter

3:16

and salt and I think this Fellini pasta

3:19

tastes there is like the almost exaggerated quality

3:21

to the just like the flavor of the

3:23

pasta itself. Like that's slightly nutty, earthy undertone

3:25

that even if you are eating it's us

3:27

with butter and salt, you're getting a lot

3:30

out of it. and certainly from a textual

3:32

standpoint. to ask a tally is not like

3:34

any other pasta. I'm a huge texture leader.

3:36

he knows. Maybe some as me and com

3:38

and such I wanted to me like a lot

3:41

of pasta shapes of kind of a dull texture

3:43

that a sliver boring. Five, These three metrics that

3:45

I used to judge all pasta seeps through their

3:47

talk about in the series on fork ability was

3:49

how's our fourth sauce ability, how others the sauce

3:51

adhere to it and truth think ability which is

3:54

how satisfying as a singer teeth into it. And

3:56

I think a lot of positives, maybe one or

3:58

two at of those three. very. You know

4:00

all three and I wanted it now three and

4:02

cast as I get these. ruffle that fella good

4:05

lemme know. position of ruffles Yeah there's kind of

4:07

fun and playful in her mouth. they're different type

4:09

of texture leader even words. butter and salt is

4:11

just like is suey and there's different thicknesses and

4:13

like it's is. this is the luck part Chris

4:16

which is the like there are different thicknesses or

4:18

and into the same and that could very easily

4:20

go off the rails and you could have a

4:22

wagon wheels have situation for the save. Never cooked

4:25

even dogs but the fact that the difference in

4:27

sickness is is just subtle enough to be preset

4:29

will without cooking. Unevenly is incredible and I can't

4:31

take any credit for that. That was just

4:33

a thousand. Good luck with that, that that

4:35

we all need. a little bit of that

4:37

sometimes will. Now you're doubling down in the

4:39

past the space and you're coming out with

4:41

a book. Anything's possible. Yup, Tell me more.

4:44

So. Yeah, this was in some ways this

4:46

is sorta like this sequel to Casket Tell You

4:48

where are we gonna have a multi part series

4:51

on the Sparkle podcast about the behind the scenes

4:53

story of the making this cookbook that also features

4:55

my wife and kids expressing a lot of doubts

4:57

about the merits of the project. for yeah it's

4:59

own Casket Tell he came out it was incredibly

5:02

went viral that I was getting all this testing

5:04

was very exciting gratifying of people were sending me

5:06

pictures of what they're making with it which I'm

5:08

sure for you said the you experience for many

5:10

years but I'm not a chef, I'm not a

5:13

recipe developer so I had never like. Made

5:15

any food thing that a lot of people

5:17

all over the country where all eating and

5:19

message me about. It's very exciting and also

5:21

kind of gratify and you must select are

5:23

being invited to have one's home for dinner

5:26

of it's It's sort of surprisingly intimate yeah

5:28

know that all people are cooking your food

5:30

in their homes so it was really special

5:32

but there was one problem which was that

5:34

with overwhelming majority of the pitchers who are

5:37

said the me were task as Hollywood tomato

5:39

sauce, meat sauce mack and sees a few

5:41

party animals made pesto or I like that

5:43

was nine know. Either only five percent over

5:45

a I throw in touch with a bang.

5:47

Carbonara and I were almost all of upset

5:50

and it just made me feel little sad.

5:52

A And it also has made me realize

5:54

that despite all the different ways you can

5:56

eat pasta, I think that for a lot

5:58

of Americans, they're still. And from

6:00

a pretty limited palette. So I set out

6:02

to make a cookbook. The woods show people

6:04

that there's so many more things they can

6:07

answer. Be on pasta. There's no recipe in

6:09

this cookbook. from our analysis. Morasses very good,

6:11

but the world doesn't need another recipe for

6:13

it. That's there's no recipe for it to

6:15

bubble in a is or lasagna or standard

6:17

issue country A happy. I just feel like

6:19

I love all those things a bit. Again,

6:21

I don't have anything to add to that

6:24

discussions so I most people don't respect that.

6:26

You know impulse you know to me and

6:28

I think like everybody's often tempted said. Nonetheless,

6:30

Sort of develop into a very crowded space and

6:32

to put their individual spin on it. so I

6:34

I I was really struck by that when I

6:37

saw some of the concept I breezy that I

6:39

me I guess as kind of my personality for

6:41

better or worse I'm sort of like alerted to

6:43

doom and or everyone else is doing nothing. But

6:45

anyway point is yes I was sort of like

6:48

willfully stubborn in this cookbook. I have to say

6:50

though, it's interesting that you don't describe yourself as

6:52

a recipe developer and maybe you'd see yourself differently

6:54

now that you've under taken the you know book

6:56

which is a a a huge left when it

6:58

comes from a recipe developing standpoint. When I

7:01

saw some of the the concepts,

7:03

I thought they were very much

7:05

in line with how like a

7:07

modern, forward thinking recipe developer would

7:09

tackle pasta. You know and I

7:12

if I call out some examples

7:14

here: Cells with me So butter

7:16

and stallions party with happy with

7:18

silly crisp and optional Sichuan peppercorns.

7:20

There you go, Lard his casket.

7:22

Tally Sex? you can. Cells. And

7:25

I think we engage in that work

7:27

a lot as you know a food

7:29

brand as recipe developers taking something that's

7:31

familiar but giving it a spin so

7:33

people can can understand what's happening in

7:36

these dishes implicitly feast on These descriptions

7:38

are clearly you are are your hijacking

7:40

the flavor profiles a little bit right?

7:42

like your employing ingredients that might not

7:44

normally fit neatly within that contact them

7:47

in of these dishes might have originally

7:49

come from for sure and I guess

7:51

my brain is very analytical and so

7:53

when I look at. A food. Even though

7:55

I'm not a trained chef, I tend to kind of like.

7:58

Break. It down into his component parts was. The

8:00

What You Do also. So for instance, I didn't

8:02

want have a recipe for Bolland A's and my

8:04

cookbook, but there are a lot of incredible this

8:06

is all over the world that involve seasons ground

8:08

meat, right? So to me any one of those

8:10

is this a prime candidate for a mashup of

8:13

Bowen A, so he did a key mobilize within

8:15

his yeah, so I think it helps that I

8:17

look a flu that way. but I also need

8:19

to shut out the recipe developers that I work

8:21

with a my cookbook and I because I'm don't

8:23

have that kind of experience. I made a point

8:25

of really going on hand as an all star

8:28

team of folks. So unnerving. Asa Loopy. so. Sarah

8:30

from head to tail and and suggests see the

8:32

so talented she developed a bunch. the recipes seems

8:34

park So and Irene you who do a lot

8:36

of green American own cooking so they did a

8:38

lot of the Korean saw this is some of

8:40

the same for the whole big Red Chili Chris

8:42

and is essentially sort of bed and my cookbook

8:44

I work with same that and Katie Laird who

8:46

we refer to a super known as Your Face

8:48

and Martha's Vineyard. she lives in Cook in Italy

8:50

to see sort of our connection to Italian roots

8:52

She lives in Puja it is and with me

8:54

with a few through obscure pasta dishes that I

8:56

hadn't heard of before that we write him of

8:58

book I couldn't have done it without. Them and

9:00

I made a point is infinite universe in cook

9:02

books which is that I credited the recipe develop

9:04

Brawny recipe because I just felt their work with

9:06

so integral and they were really collaborators. There were

9:09

some recipes that I was ok here's an idea

9:11

and that them rows over there are some of

9:13

that they were person to meet and so am

9:15

I wanted makes a They were getting a lot

9:17

of credit because they all the way to the

9:19

book. The next level is there any pasta dish

9:21

that you just categorically don't like. Who.

9:25

Am. I don't like angel hair as a

9:27

shape. that's fair. So. If

9:29

we're gonna put any passes is an easel.

9:31

Hamilton like bow ties and wagon Wheels know.

9:34

The. Seeley know those are bad seeps.

9:36

I don't love primavera. Fairness.

9:38

To time I sort of feel like if

9:40

it was marketed as a pasta salad I

9:43

think that I wouldn't go that as a

9:45

cold noodle. There some gas or server room

9:47

temperature to barbecue with some nice your summer

9:49

squash I can see that. but like as

9:51

an entree I still think the vegetables are

9:53

too big in relation to the pasta. The

9:55

size is don't work for me some yeah

9:57

yeah and for saying haven't thought about that,

9:59

this. Wow, I bet that you have

10:01

one. I know I don't want to

10:04

tread carefully because I know you just

10:06

entered the space with ah we'd alternative

10:08

pasta. I have a hard time with

10:11

pastas made from things other than wheat.

10:13

I think like they're cyst, almost like

10:15

the space of like functional pasta pasta

10:17

plus protein. Whether it's sick p or

10:20

lentil I don't know I anything other

10:22

than kind of whole wheat or maybe

10:24

spells I started this be like this

10:26

is doing something different from the I'd

10:29

rather have like. That the city's an

10:31

pasta together right? and maybe it's eighty percent

10:33

seek peace but I get some pasta that

10:35

just does what I want pasta to do.

10:38

but I don't know. but if my kids

10:40

eat it would I make them in a

10:42

bonds a Mac and sees? yeah I probably

10:45

would write you know in my wife is

10:47

gluten free anyway so half the time I'm

10:49

like I have to make unsourced past the

10:51

for one kid sauce pastor for the other

10:54

kid a making brown rice jovial positive for

10:56

my wife anyway road I don't even know

10:58

what to eat any marisa. It's not about

11:00

me reflect that the you know and that's where

11:03

I am, right, right? I as a weed there's

11:05

a bomb. Servers and Caskets Hollywood did a whole

11:07

episode as Purple about Yeah of the science of

11:09

gluten free pasta and even the the sciences we

11:12

spoke to in Italy where a lot of the

11:14

best gluten free boss has been made even See,

11:16

So this is a look. It's come a long

11:18

way as a lot better than it was five

11:21

years ago. But no one's going to tell you

11:23

that they're interchangeable like serve you can eat regular

11:25

pasta and universities. The difference for serve? Yeah, let

11:27

me through you curve ball and okay. I'm ready.

11:30

You're ready. Okay, and so. I. Had

11:32

this idea like years ago and

11:34

you having undertaken to the extreme

11:36

work of bringing a new path

11:38

to seep into the world my

11:40

idea isn't so much for a

11:42

seep this it only worked for

11:45

like wide a tubular pasta. imagine

11:47

ridges on both sides meaning like

11:49

ridges inside the pasta as well

11:51

as outside where you have decent

11:53

assurance of like sauce penetration of

11:55

like the inside of the pasta

11:57

you notice because it would be.

12:00

A wide tube Mathematica arm you know

12:02

Parker? yeah Rigatoni at the very least.

12:04

Rematch and you're doing bridges inside and

12:06

out. I think that's a really good

12:08

idea and I'm serious. look that be

12:10

sucked Have no one's done that. but

12:12

it makes a lot of sense because

12:14

it is ever increasing surface area. Yeah

12:16

you're going to increase the sauce ability

12:18

or making more tactile gonna hold things

12:20

better. So by increasing the surface area

12:22

inside the to be more sauce should

12:24

stay inside their said and it's a

12:26

wide sued so you're gonna you know

12:28

things are going up flow through it

12:30

as well as around it. Anyway generally

12:32

speaking I like sector of yeah not

12:34

bad and I like the you're you're

12:36

talking with the big to that rigatoni

12:38

measure on a gay pottery as I

12:41

don't love the medium sized to spend

12:43

a penny know they're fine right wing.

12:45

Media problem with those tubes is that

12:47

they are not wide enough to really

12:49

flat and into two distinct layers be

12:51

incredibly satisfying like a rigatoni, but they're

12:53

not narrow enough to spring back against

12:55

bite force like a bucatini. they're just

12:57

bringing enough to sprint off your fourth.

12:59

Yep, know there's a certain rigidity to

13:01

their structure that kind of defies easy

13:03

collapse and anyway will. Okay and I'm

13:05

heartened that you don't think it's a

13:07

terrible idea. I just got a lot

13:09

of potential to it. So.

13:14

Mr. Tusk a tele himself things

13:17

my pasta as potential fellini did

13:19

set. Go for real love sec

13:21

Ruth to tell the truth so

13:23

help me up I'm waiting for

13:26

your call. We're

13:28

going to take a quick break a sick around

13:30

here down and I tackle some a good listener

13:32

quest. And.

13:44

Center and that from and creator and

13:46

mastermind behind Smitten Cousin and the author.

13:49

Three hundred bucks and I'm Kenji Lopez

13:51

Also, you might know me from series

13:53

of move up and the was purple

13:55

professional hung up. Which means that we

13:57

create such recipes, assessing over them and.

14:00

They're just right and I'm our new

14:02

podcast. A Recipe with hands yentob. We'll

14:04

save our techniques and ingredients to that

14:06

You can learn everything you need to

14:09

create your own perfect recipe from Brady

14:11

as healthy as from Prs. It's the

14:13

recipe makes sense. Yeah, and that now

14:16

on your favorite podcast platform. Of

14:28

them were back. So

14:31

it's it's okay with you. I'm gonna have

14:33

it to some listener questions or a bus

14:35

do and just jump and I'm curious to

14:38

hear your thoughts. So. The

14:40

first one came as a voice memo

14:42

from listener Matthew and I'm gonna have

14:44

missed Cel Play that for us. As

14:48

it on our money Missouri Matthew the

14:50

guys are charging a dog armed with

14:52

United States Army here. I'm really curious

14:55

over my friend. just what about how

14:57

I got a pasta dish I could

14:59

make thing I grew up by a

15:01

lot of fake. However, I just. Ever

15:04

done. Much. Of a pop. I

15:06

don't know much about it. Some. Wanted

15:08

to cook for the are often so

15:10

at that some secured the like potatoes

15:12

for. Good. Not a beginner

15:15

foster because I know I know good amount of

15:17

cooking but I won't central so. I.

15:20

Feel a you found my target audience

15:22

is no time We have no way

15:24

we'd we did a very careful for

15:26

recess from from the mail bag questions

15:28

I wear my had goes with this

15:30

is pasta for crowd is actually hard

15:33

depending on what you're doing. Some.

15:35

Of the bus passes in the world

15:37

I think exist ideally on a very

15:39

small scale like in Party with Happy.

15:41

It's hard to manipulate a full pound

15:43

of spaghetti in a skillet and get

15:45

the most. and you need to emulsifier

15:47

the cheese and to the sauce, you

15:49

know. Where. Is like I wear my brain

15:51

goes with this is like. Big. The

15:53

pasta. As a way of speeding a

15:55

lot of people but as a distinct goal that

15:57

is separate from like learning about after what is

16:00

what does this do for you? I agree with

16:02

that and it possible for a crowd can be

16:04

a salinger right? And as I made a point

16:06

of highlight all the recipes and my cookbook that

16:08

is at work for make ahead and also to

16:10

do specific instructions for techniques for like couldn't the

16:12

past in advance a be a minute short bled

16:14

out i see panel at a cool and then

16:16

you can finish the dish kind of the last

16:19

minute so that opens up some possibilities. Reward for

16:21

as cook pasta but beyond We start from scratch

16:23

from your company has their way I agree, big

16:25

possibly even that is an area where there's a

16:27

lot of opportunity for innovation in new ideas. I

16:29

felt so. Now I did a ah a

16:31

Baked Cauliflower Mack and sees it's gonna go

16:34

Mustard Beard sees Soul Baronet yes yes with

16:36

a Ritz Cracker crumbs hop And we did

16:38

a I'm Era in the movie Big Night.

16:40

They do the jobs that that is upon

16:43

us right now. We we did one of

16:45

those, but a vegetarian one that's not quite

16:47

so unwieldy with that's a bit is on

16:49

with Dell Adele Case. They ended up eggplants

16:52

thin sliced eggplants roasted with bread crumbs and

16:54

then molded the eggplant around the outside to

16:56

creep the sort of like them. It's like

16:58

a very deep sea suit. Like a bottomless

17:00

T sat on our with what we do

17:03

with pasta, mozzarella and cubed eggplant makes them

17:05

yeah so that was as good on sick

17:07

of you know what we did the others

17:09

who the fuck is we took manic hardy

17:11

or with the other places like manna taught

17:13

him alone can alone you think you got

17:15

like a long yeah I into but we

17:17

did like and salon styles so it is

17:19

smoked setter and fretted sickness when you just

17:22

go to the store by rotisserie chicken if

17:24

you are shortcuts credit mix it with some

17:26

like sour cream or crema and to smoke

17:28

said or sees send you stuff. The pasta

17:30

cells oh you stuff vote Manna Kati Young

17:32

laid out you covered season and a lotta

17:35

sauce and you bake it's and as citizens

17:37

you can make you can prep ahead, throw

17:39

it in the oven and pull it out

17:41

when or ones coming in to make up

17:44

for a crap out of store bought manna

17:46

Caught Eve Okay yeah I'll have fun some.

17:48

Another one that we did it's fun for

17:50

a crowd is a spinach artichoke dip, lasagna

17:53

pinwheels of i have a spill I'm kind

17:55

of anti lasagna Chris because I feel like

17:57

okay, we'll so there's another one hundred subscribers.

18:00

Our but it's like is eternal war and you

18:02

kind of the second gets cut up and a

18:04

few bites are taken out of it. Ricotta Dealing

18:06

with a big Cd effectively. yeah right like a

18:08

August missteps you put all this work to create

18:10

these beautiful distinct layers the very quickly get destroyed.

18:12

So if I decided want to have that are

18:15

my cookbook myself as good be any kind of

18:17

lasagna is thing I wanted to be something really

18:19

special that that a big Cd format couldn't replicate.

18:21

So we did pinwheels you layouts, you cook and

18:23

then lay flat out of a sort of as

18:25

I am a new stuff it with spinach artichoke

18:27

treated like a lemon best smell and you roll.

18:30

It added understand them up and they are

18:32

can cover them with some seas and it's

18:34

it looks incredible. It's a total so stop

18:36

earth's It's also kind of like not quite

18:39

as heavy as a lasagna. it's vegetarian and

18:41

it's got some sees would not pounds and

18:43

pounds of it so it's like satisfying and

18:45

delicious but also little it bright and and

18:47

see spinach artichoke dip to people when they

18:50

go crazy. Honestly that that the great example

18:52

of like recipe development is full of hard

18:54

choices. Like you know I've developed lasagna recipes.

18:56

they all involve some amount of compromise because

18:59

the true ultimate or. Example of lasagna

19:01

is a phenomenal amount of work. I

19:03

mean hand made pasta, sin seeds along

19:05

cooked meat sauce To me like what

19:08

lasagna is all about and this is

19:10

why I get I wait when I

19:12

see a lasagna recipe that doesn't contain

19:14

it. It's about the joy of best

19:17

smell in a big pasta. you know

19:19

best ml To me it's like it

19:21

provides like to psych that moisture that

19:24

plus ness that in contrast with like

19:26

another sauce like a meat or tomato

19:28

based sauce. It's wonderful. On it's own

19:31

it doesn't break under the heat of

19:33

the the of in the way other

19:35

cream based pastas can. I freaking love

19:37

it. You know, like lasagna to me

19:39

is about making some sort of love

19:41

letter to Bash Ml. How ever you

19:43

handle the question of why are you

19:45

getting store bought Noodles are homemade? Are

19:47

you doing a fast sauce? Look slow

19:49

sauce? Whatever else right? Well I'd say

19:51

like to Matthew those are all great

19:53

ideas from damned book. I would also

19:55

to say like listen there's the past

19:57

the you want a speed a crowd.

20:00

Then there's the pastor that I think

20:02

can kind of teach you about what

20:04

it truly means to I you know

20:06

fuse sauce and pasta together. I would

20:09

highly recommend something like a tattoo a

20:11

puppy just for it to make for

20:13

yourself just right on the side. Don't

20:16

overthink it, it's a handful of ingredients

20:18

and it will unlock a world of

20:20

the the simplicity and the beauty of

20:22

simple pasta based really building up a

20:25

sauce out of almost nothing, creating animals

20:27

and out of in opens very little

20:29

but. Creating this like stable wonderful cheesy

20:31

red sauce that is something you owe

20:33

it to yourself to get into hundred

20:36

percent at an order. Some of that

20:38

are in the next question I just

20:40

as a success or that's that's and

20:42

comes from listener Sir Rena I want

20:44

to make a shrimp scampi pasta recipe

20:46

which calls for dry white wine and

20:48

I only have a sweet mascot out

20:50

on hand. Man I wish we could

20:52

have been with you in real time

20:55

that that I'm very happy with your

20:57

hat with that Will this totally ruin

20:59

the recipe? How interchangeable or winds and

21:01

other alcohols and cooking? Well yeah I

21:03

mean sweetness? gotta I'd say probably not

21:05

but mainly just because like residual sugar

21:07

is not going to cook out of

21:09

line. You know I think a lot

21:11

of like why we cook with wine

21:13

is usually for it's acidity as well

21:16

as some amount of flavor that kind

21:18

of carry through in the final this

21:20

but sweetness isn't gonna go anywhere. You

21:22

will have made your pasta, your shrimp,

21:24

whatever it is quite sweet at that

21:26

point. The only thing you could at

21:28

that point do is. Take a page

21:30

from James's cookbook to answer some silly Chris

21:33

been there make it really hot, make very

21:35

bright. you know that's how I'm thinking about

21:37

that. Any thoughts I agreed on average teachers'

21:39

easier to Chris because certain winds the people

21:41

don't consider to be very dry like a

21:44

Pinot Grigio but I feel like the size

21:46

of I have a half drink bottle of

21:48

Pinot Grigio in the fridge and I need

21:50

to cook with some wine. Also use that

21:53

yeah work fine. Totally live as people shouldn't

21:55

get too hung up with recipes is a

21:57

very dry white wine like the official be

21:59

like sugar wine right by like if it's

22:01

Pinot Grigio not shard ne that will still

22:04

be okay a one hundred percent yeah I

22:06

I'm very non fussy about like what wine

22:08

am I cook with Whatever I have open

22:10

is gonna win every time even if it's

22:13

like rose they you know what I mean.

22:15

Something that like the little Blake soft or

22:17

maybe not quite as high as said I'll

22:19

still use it because warming in the do

22:21

like open an entire other bottled says to

22:24

like than dump a third of it into

22:26

and s know run on how I roll

22:28

right. The

22:35

first and then he gets more

22:38

listener. Hi.

22:50

Listeners: It's Crests on Dinner As the

22:52

West's we offer you cooking advice to

22:55

make your week a little less stressful.

22:57

So. Want to share another podcast with the

22:59

that has helped me decompress from the

23:01

stress of everyday life. And. Called

23:04

Meditative Story and in each episode you'll

23:06

hear a different story teller share a

23:08

moment in their life where everything changed

23:10

for them. I just listened

23:12

to the episode with Cielo South Carla

23:15

Hall. She. Says an incredible, heartfelt story

23:17

about the power of play and how he

23:19

fell in love with cooking from watching her

23:21

grandmother and her kitchen. My. Favorite

23:23

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23:25

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23:27

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23:29

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23:31

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23:34

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app and follow the so. Welcome

23:44

back to dinner! Eso es. Aren't

23:47

Next question comes from listener for

23:49

rock. Okay is

23:51

a good run with formally cheap

23:53

cuts like Syncs take becoming more

23:56

expensive. What proteins or cuts do

23:58

you think are still. Value!

24:00

This one's hilarious to me because and as

24:02

he does a lot of our grocery shopping

24:04

here in the task it's and team is

24:06

literally down at Florence Prime Meat Market and

24:09

like just a matter of weeks ago from

24:11

wonderful little narrowed butcher on like Greenwich Village

24:13

west Village area and like somebody is complaining

24:15

about the cost of skirt steak and the

24:17

butcher was like well you know these magazines

24:20

the keep writing I swear on their behalf

24:22

of last and now it's like eighteen dollars.

24:24

Run on try that are the and whatever

24:26

it is so far as a society know

24:28

like sounds like a. Head bowed, ducking

24:30

backing out of cigarettes? Are you know?

24:33

call me crazy for him. Love Ground

24:35

Me. Quality ground meat. You know it's

24:37

if if you have a place that

24:39

actually grinds their meat on site and

24:41

might even like incorporate some different Hudson

24:44

to it. Some places in this is

24:46

more like a premium butcher thing. They

24:48

might even have like some amount of

24:50

dry aged meet that might go into

24:52

specific blend. Honestly, you're gonna struggle to

24:54

pay more than like ten or twelve

24:57

bucks a pound, you know? unless you're

24:59

getting something super. High and and specialty

25:01

and it's so versatile from a coronary

25:03

perspective. That's kind of work I go

25:05

with that is more reflective the how

25:08

iconic cook at home. It's very rare

25:10

that were making state just because everyone

25:12

such a pain and at home with

25:14

the i don't are out there right

25:16

right? I agree. Grammys is delicious. One

25:19

recipe in the cookbook that that if

25:21

you are like double your protein. I'm

25:23

Andrea Winded recipe few years back from

25:25

Oppo Tofu spaghetti. I work with her

25:27

to adapt that to go with caskets.

25:29

Heli. With my possible to the ground meat

25:32

in there goes into those ridges and it's

25:34

fantastic. But one of andrea stroke of genius

25:36

in that recipe is it rather than taking

25:38

that more firm tofu and tubing it and

25:40

them up or to for she digs silken

25:42

tofu as you puree it. Oh, which gives

25:45

the sauce the texture of a of a

25:47

sick cream sauce but with no dairy. Yeah,

25:49

and it holds it all together and so

25:51

it's got a ton of protein and that's

25:53

not expensive at all. and it's incredibly delicious.

25:55

But also he's approaching. I think of Pixies

25:57

Down or my favorite. This isn't the cook.

26:00

His country fried freer. It's from Pouliot to

26:02

the south eastern corner. the show the boot

26:04

of Italy A all the way down. You

26:07

gotta go to this city they they said

26:09

the south eastern most corner of Italy the

26:11

city called let's say in an area called

26:13

the Solent. Oh yeah and let's say is

26:16

like even if you I'm in Italy I'm

26:18

sure you've heard of Rome and Florence in

26:20

Venice and Milan and Tuscany in the Amalfi

26:23

coast. Less is not near any of those

26:25

places ssl it's not abyss Alentejo as very

26:27

little groundwater. So of the cuisine there's very

26:29

focused. On lagoon was a very little

26:31

mean embezzled seas and they have this

26:34

is considering three Fbs. You take pappardelle

26:36

wide flat fresh pasta and tear it

26:38

into pieces like the size of stick

26:40

of gum and half of the pasta.

26:42

You fry until it's crispy and then

26:44

you make a chick pea broth with

26:46

few basic vegetables. Might have some white

26:48

wine and it. And. Said peas and

26:50

then the other half the posse of cook

26:53

in the city broth. Then. Of the

26:55

last second you add the crispy fried pasta.

26:57

it is so simple wow I mean this

26:59

this you can make one portion is for

27:01

fry fifty cents but it's got a ton

27:04

of flavor and it's got the protein, the

27:06

cities and importantly and has the two different

27:08

textures of pasta, the crispy fried pasta and

27:10

the chewy dough you fresh pasta and it

27:12

is so so good. While I mean I've

27:15

obviously no of by posse chichi about this

27:17

is a variation of that that has some

27:19

very interesting sounding. Yeah, now there's a

27:21

bit of a debate in let's say about

27:23

whether you should take the fried for some

27:26

little better. Now that I know you wouldn't

27:28

believe in agree about fact That and I

27:30

yes sir, Yes so some people say you

27:32

should take the fried pasta and simmer it's

27:35

in the city broth for just thirty seconds

27:37

before Servant of has softened it a bit

27:39

and let it soak up some flavor. Others

27:41

say no serve the days and then you

27:44

put the fried pasta on top of the

27:46

very end to maintain maximum crisp. I heard

27:48

this debate was happening and I said why.

27:50

Not both. So.

27:52

For my recipe, I divide the posse

27:55

and thirds so we have one third

27:57

boiled, one third fried, and and partially

27:59

boil. To maintain some crispin and

28:01

different texture and one third not boiled at

28:03

all only fried and that creates the media

28:06

from pasta taxes instead of to which increases

28:08

the text, a variety of the dis and

28:10

the price of in that sensory science call

28:12

dynamic contrasts which is a dotted I'm sure

28:15

you know well bringing together different textures into

28:17

the same by and now you are not

28:19

welcome back for the rest of my life.

28:21

I hope that with Martha. Amazing!

28:26

Now that's so cool. As often think

28:28

about an hour line. way off topic

28:30

I'm sorry Barack like online advertising agency

28:32

steak and word like views and protein.

28:34

We got all kinds of sheep. yeah

28:36

network that's true see protein. I mean

28:38

obviously like going plan Pace has like

28:40

tons of merits of behind it but

28:42

yeah I don't I. You know I

28:45

think so much of this like regional

28:47

variation from like one place the next

28:49

and Italy. It's like you could be

28:51

from one part of Italy and just

28:53

not know what was happening like next

28:55

door. This is fascinating because I have

28:57

family from the south some we never

28:59

had anything. Like quite like that most the

29:01

food I grew up with a like influenced

29:03

by American interpretations of Italian southern Italian food

29:05

ways but you know you really want to

29:07

get sidetracked your chris of them that I

29:09

think you'll find interesting. My research trip across

29:11

Italy the most shocking thing the big take

29:14

way that really inform i brush my both

29:16

was that first of all Italian food culture

29:18

is not as old as people think pasta

29:20

culture is not as older and will think

29:22

Pasa has only been an ass on the

29:24

severely for by the past hundred years Carbonara

29:26

was only events in the nineteen forties and

29:28

fifties and the ingredients are only really standardized.

29:30

In about two thousand, so it's not

29:32

as set in it's ways as Italians

29:34

themselves even seem to think. But also

29:37

a lot of Italian Connery history has

29:39

been influenced by Italian Americans and by

29:41

Italians going to America and then coming

29:43

back. Murder on roads were to Carbonara

29:45

probably could only have come to be

29:47

because of the American presence Italy during

29:49

World War Two. An American rations were

29:51

sort of like bacon and eggs. And

29:54

had greets yeah which was sort of cotchery peppery

29:56

but with grandchild I saw yeah for you it

29:58

was kind the like a pork and pepper and

30:01

she's causing the didn't always have sees it was

30:03

kind of farmers got thrown going to have a

30:05

think and then when americans were there and and

30:07

sort of eating bacon and eggs and have an

30:09

egg and bacon rations and stuff. that's the leading

30:11

theory as to how assorted got matched up with

30:13

ideas about the there are you ended up with

30:15

carbonaro it says the eggs guanciale in the petrino

30:18

in the black pepper and so the point is

30:20

that like italian pasta history is not as old

30:22

as you will think the side of status is

30:24

will thing as not exclusively italian serve totally volt.

30:26

I hope you got all that barack a fat

30:28

fuck around much as I go. To Italy?

30:30

Yeah, and maybe some boneless short ribs

30:32

and their addresses and rank three Affordable.

30:35

Caught? Yeah. Maybe still passing under the

30:37

radar or it's finally here. A seasonal

30:39

question from Td. My family and I

30:42

love a lazy lingering Sunday dinner in

30:44

the summer. we slice up fresh veggies,

30:46

make or sometimes open some hummus, and

30:48

poor on some brining olives. Maybe some

30:51

burrata or feather jump on their if

30:53

I have some, I feel like picking

30:55

on the board all afternoon is so

30:57

satisfying. Only one big this to clean.

31:00

And you're done. But right now it's

31:02

winter. The produce is not great. It's

31:04

easy to be inspired when the weather

31:06

is good in the one he alfresco

31:08

for. The early darkness and silly air

31:10

is making it hard to feel inspired.

31:12

My boards are more limp leftovers than

31:14

magical medicine Ss. And what I know

31:16

when I'm bored: Three sons, could you

31:18

suggest? What do you think? I mean

31:21

depending on where you live? certainly seasonality.

31:23

There's times a year that things aren't

31:25

you did on as many options. But

31:27

like I feel like this is soup

31:29

weather and. Soup is another area where I

31:31

feel like I think a lot of who are not

31:33

taking advantage of the full spectrum of all the suits

31:35

the to be having for to say to me as

31:37

accident will be in the spirit of what this person

31:40

is talking what is like make a ball soup and

31:42

then go to the bakery and geico really nice low

31:44

for fresh bread with a nice thick crust on it.

31:46

may be years to be with the super maybe are

31:48

going to make some nice glowed seize up something like

31:50

riddled with a nice olive oil I'm outside of you're

31:52

gonna cut six slices and this fresh bread written a

31:54

griddle it now of oil with maybe a blend of

31:57

a couple different cheeses in an injured in a did

31:59

that into this. That's got the wintertime version

32:01

of what I'm hearing described in this

32:03

alfresco scenario. I like that You know

32:05

there was many years where we we

32:07

know for healthiest foods as a sub

32:09

brand that we kind of hard and

32:11

he bear gone and I did have

32:13

a lot of the recipe development for

32:15

it. You know every year January would

32:17

roll around with Trot out the feel

32:19

good food plan. I love those recipes

32:21

as a non dogmatic glebe. L C

32:23

later approaches to just cooking especially for

32:25

people who are looking for New Year's

32:27

resettled last couple of years of. Them

32:30

might screw that you know of any

32:32

and like Iraq and first of all

32:34

everybody else is in that space. com

32:37

New year right? Like new year in

32:39

a yeah whatever find like yet eat

32:41

the things that like winter is for

32:44

right to lean into the coziness, the

32:46

hardiness, lean into the fact that like

32:48

yeah it's soup see then you know

32:51

you can bundle up with a ball

32:53

of light tomato soup or whatever and

32:55

grilled cheese. I still think what lock

32:57

them in like videos and season maybe

33:00

citrus. And sees doesn't always go together,

33:02

but the firmer, saltier teases certainly go

33:04

with citrus. Like, I think you just

33:06

have to really shake up what you're

33:08

thinking about the know as being like

33:11

in season tropical fruit isn't season Again,

33:13

I wouldn't necessarily serve. Now I was

33:15

like starting to say like maybe not

33:17

pineapple with burrata but actually I think

33:19

it might be a diss actor. Want

33:21

a boy you know, like I'm like,

33:24

what other desserts I think you're interpreting

33:26

this little bit overly narrowly. You know

33:28

there's a lot going on. Even right

33:30

now I love radicchio season. I love

33:32

bitter greens. They last for ever in

33:34

the fridge. You know the let us

33:36

out please let us sucks. Right now

33:38

they're getting ticked all the way to

33:40

the east coast from California. Albert the

33:42

radicchio is perky. It's there for you

33:44

and other hand and ago I got

33:46

a recipe. the cookbook this radicchio and

33:49

and dive with a sauce. It's like

33:51

a riff on like a banya kowtow

33:53

like I'm at seven. The got like

33:55

eighteen and so visas is like incredibly

33:57

savory new kind of like fear that

33:59

produce either. The only and I've and

34:01

it's crunchiness, bitter. it is credibly savory. He

34:03

a band called it is like literally seek

34:05

food and sums of like you know, just

34:07

something with tons of garlic, tons of and

34:09

soviets lots of olive oil. maybe a little

34:12

bit it's he's in there like something to

34:14

dip your fresh feds, whatever in your not

34:16

nestling and want to eat that in June.

34:18

You know they celebrate what's around to like

34:20

now that you can make the most of

34:22

right? Listen, dance. Really fun to chat with

34:25

you is my pleasure. they so much rather

34:27

me. yeah I mean why goodness you've thought

34:29

a lot about part of. Some

34:32

might say too much but you know I guess

34:34

of other things to obsess over in the world

34:36

how how is your family coping with. About

34:39

about us Are they okay? Well I'm a bit

34:41

vague. They get a kick out of a but

34:43

I give you listen to the news foreclosures with

34:46

the making of the cookbook which features them prominently.

34:48

there are several areas moments, route, or I'm like

34:50

trying to explain to them by the thought process

34:52

behind a desk. I invented this thing called past

34:54

the pizza. It's like eg, take a long is

34:56

it a cook fettuccine? Put it on a sheet

34:58

pan and you roasted in the bottom from. Others

35:00

be brown yeah and good. Very troubling pizza pick

35:02

up places needed. I thought of it while driving

35:04

in the current I come home as had my

35:06

daughter Emily's ten years old I said i got

35:09

this idea for the simple pasta pizza as she

35:11

goes also likes pizza about like with process and

35:13

my yet do I hear more about it says

35:15

i know it already sounds good and of I

35:17

ask you to tell me more about it is

35:20

for got a whole lot when I was in

35:22

a so I'd rather just avoid that settle and

35:24

success Yeah I mean it's worth pointing out that

35:26

you know for people in the food space their

35:28

families are along for the ride. You know,

35:31

for sure like really. I mean that sometimes they

35:33

get fed up. But. I wouldn't they

35:35

had savvy pasta than the onboard

35:37

ssssss. other. Six,

35:42

you have a dinner emergency on

35:44

your have the right to us

35:46

at dinner as though as the

35:48

when apathy.com or leave us a

35:50

voice message. That's and once you

35:52

sweet sex as the last one

35:54

to one to to eat Six

35:56

Seven Zero Seven One check out

35:58

the unspoken Anything's possible. I'm more

36:00

creative approaches. the pasta you can find

36:02

it was ever that's are sold. If

36:07

you enjoyed this episode, please give us

36:09

the rating and review on the path

36:11

of choice. Oliver

36:13

and see and never miss an episode. Thanks

36:17

for listening to dinner as though

36:19

as I'm your host Chris Morocco

36:21

my cohost this week and then

36:23

passion or producer is Michelle O'brien

36:25

hidden his larsen see a see

36:27

through every foods that are assistant

36:29

producer. Jake Limits with

36:31

or studio engineer Far Law makes.

36:35

Christian and on the now head

36:37

of Global Audio. Next

36:40

week Easy and Nina her twins

36:43

who love to cook together about

36:45

cz love baking doesn't always go

36:47

well for her sister. I

36:50

kind of This guy like I have like

36:52

one more saw it as trying to bait

36:54

together and following her allies with me as

36:56

an otherwise maybe. I'll just have grown. Were.

37:02

Debating to some of the pan

37:05

and golden brown or dark golden

37:07

brown. Years got

37:09

a look of consternation on your face.

37:11

Christian I guess we'll see in our

37:13

recipe editor. Legal Brothel Last Resort is

37:15

one of the our conversation be a

37:18

probably yeah it's like gold in who

37:20

it's like golden. You're in one space

37:22

but like dark gold and is almost

37:24

like a contradiction in terms like you've

37:26

moved outside. Of the gold, Hey

37:32

listen Earth Chris Morocco here

37:34

as you find yourself in

37:36

a dinner crisis at the

37:38

curious as to the rescue.

37:40

Not only we unlock over

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