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1:42

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1:45

there, listeners, future callers, and

1:50

cooking enthusiasts. This is the podcast for

1:52

you. It's a podcast where we

1:54

talk about the things that make a good podcast.

1:56

Hey there, listeners, future callers,

1:59

and cooking enthusiasts. the show where we help you save

2:01

dinner or whatever you're cooking. I'm

2:04

Chris Morocco, food director of Bon Appetit

2:06

and Epicurious. And today, I'm

2:09

joined by some very special colleagues. Hi,

2:12

I'm Rachel Gorjar and I'm an associate

2:14

food editor in the Bon Appetit Test

2:16

Kitchen. I'm Kendra Vaculin and

2:18

I'm also an associate food editor at Bon

2:20

Appetit. My name is Ina Sangeano

2:22

and I'm the test kitchen coordinator at Bon Appetit.

2:26

If you've received your December issue of

2:28

Bon Appetit, then you know our food

2:30

editors went all in on a cookie

2:32

swap this year. So

2:34

today on Dinner SOS, we're bringing

2:37

you a cookie swap swap. We

2:39

have each chosen one of our colleagues'

2:41

cookie recipes from the December issue. And

2:44

we're going to go around the table and make a

2:46

case for why that should be the cookie you make

2:48

this holiday season. And then

2:50

we'll answer some listener questions about

2:52

curating the perfect cookie selection. Basically,

2:56

we're going to talk about cookies first, and then we're going

2:58

to talk about cookies again, but in a different way. And

3:01

then we're going to talk about cookies after that. Got

3:03

it? Before

3:06

we start the cookie swap swap,

3:09

let's just talk about cookies. I

3:11

feel like everybody in their heart of hearts is a cookie

3:13

person at the end of the day, right?

3:16

Or is that not right? I

3:18

think so more than others. Yeah,

3:20

I don't know. He's not a cookie person here.

3:22

I'm not really a cookie person. I think it's

3:24

one of those things where, yeah, it's a little

3:26

bit of something for everyone, but I think

3:28

it's really hard to sell that it is worth

3:31

the hoopla. Wow. To

3:33

me, like a cookie is a home

3:35

product. Like if I go to a

3:38

bakery, I'm not spending my American

3:40

dollars on a cookie. I'm

3:42

going to buy something that takes more

3:44

time, like a croissant or something

3:47

that I can't make at home. Cookies

3:49

feel like that's something I do. Yeah,

3:51

it's giving laborists. I think that's the thing

3:53

for me. It's just giving like project. There's no

3:55

cookie that comes to mind where I'm like, Oh

3:58

yeah, just like. even

4:00

though you can. But it's just like the cookie I

4:02

want, the cookie I dream about, it's very seldom

4:04

that I think that it's

4:06

easily achievable. Totally. Well, I

4:08

agree that it certainly is hard to find a

4:11

wonderful cookie out in the world. And it

4:13

is true that you can make a great

4:16

cookie at home. You can make a cookie

4:18

that's probably better than a lot of what

4:20

you can get in most bakeries' stores of

4:22

any kind. And then you can have

4:24

all dozen to yourself. Yes. Right.

4:27

You have to spend $3.50 on one

4:29

lackluster cookie. Yeah. And

4:32

your house smells amazing. Yeah, true. Yeah. No

4:35

where I went just then. You remember

4:37

the movie Clueless House when Christian's like

4:39

coming over? She's just like, I better

4:41

be baking something. Yeah. She just

4:43

dumps the log of dough onto the cookie sheet and

4:45

just shoves it in the oven. And then of course

4:47

forgets about it. Yeah. It's

4:50

like you're supposed to do that when you want to

4:52

sell your house. Correct. You're supposed to like

4:54

make the smell of cookies in your house and then people

4:56

will buy it. I'm curious to

4:58

hear everybody's kind of earliest cookie

5:00

memories or just like holiday cookie

5:02

memories. For me, my

5:04

aunt, Mary Ann, shout out Mary

5:06

Ann's Go Field in Seattle, Washington.

5:09

She for as long as I can

5:12

remember makes like 30

5:14

types of cookies for Christmas. Like

5:16

truly, I mean, she is a maximalist

5:18

across the board. Like she has three

5:21

Christmas trees, but she also is like

5:23

making so many Christmas cookies and going

5:25

to her house. We would usually

5:27

go up to Seattle after we had Christmas, like

5:29

as a family, then we'd go up to see

5:31

my dad's side of the family in Seattle and

5:33

have Christmas part two on like the 27th and

5:36

dessert was always the best part because she would

5:38

put out platters upon platters upon platters on platters

5:40

of cookies. And you would do your

5:42

best not to get fooled because there were two

5:44

cookies that looked a lot alike and one was

5:46

like fully chocolate and one had rum inside of

5:48

it. And as a child, nothing could be worse

5:50

than like accidentally eating the rum ball. Yeah. But

5:54

I mean, I don't even know where she found the time

5:56

to make all these cookies, but it was everything.

5:58

It was like all the frost. cookies

6:00

like cut out in the shapes of

6:02

you know the tree and the wreath

6:05

and the elves and whatever if you

6:07

would make all sorts of like M&M

6:09

cookies with all this like mix-ins everything

6:11

was red and green frosted sprinkles there

6:13

was like the non-bake like haystack style

6:15

cookies brownies the bark I mean

6:18

it was crazy this is the thing she

6:20

did everything she's the queen of cookies yeah

6:22

so that's that's my number one memory

6:24

regarding Christmas cookies I love that what

6:26

about you Rachel like where do cookies

6:28

bring you for me so I

6:30

grew up in India and my mom

6:33

never baked cookies but I do remember

6:35

going to a local bakery and picking

6:38

up cookies and in India we don't

6:40

call them cookies they're biscuits oh

6:43

of course so

6:45

we went to pick up biscuits and

6:48

there is one that I really

6:51

like it's called nana katai it's kind

6:53

of like a short breadie that's the

6:55

vibe it's very simple but it's so

6:57

delicious and then we have

6:59

a couple of other variations with spices

7:01

which are really yummy the ones with

7:03

spices you would see flakes of cumin

7:06

seeds on top and

7:08

there's usually a simple sugar

7:10

crust it's not even a

7:12

glaze you know when the glaze

7:15

really hardens and it becomes like

7:17

crispy yeah so I

7:19

remember that and then during Christmas because there's

7:21

a big Christian community in India so they

7:23

would do the fancy ones with green and

7:27

red like white frosting

7:29

so I remember that I love it when

7:31

the frosting on a cookie is hard yeah

7:34

it's very bakery yeah I

7:37

like it when it's hard so I can chip

7:39

it off and eat it there in a little

7:41

pile on my plate that like one of the

7:43

kids can come along and what

7:47

about you and that's were you always a cookie

7:49

Grinch or or did you grow into it I

7:51

think it's genetic I was a big cake family

7:55

and I don't know if that's from being around a

7:57

lot of women from the American South

7:59

but cheeses

12:00

and meats. Holiday wines and beers are also

12:02

on sale starting at $7.99. Host the perfect

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holiday party with Whole Foods Market.

12:08

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12:13

I'm Lala Arakoglu, host of Women

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Who Travel. Each story from

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for more adventures on Women

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Who Travel. Wherever you listen

13:17

to a podcast. Welcome back

13:20

to the Dinner SOS, cookie swap swap.

13:23

So like last year we didn't really

13:25

have a strong cookie moment. There were

13:27

a couple as part of the Claire

13:30

Safat's package of recipes. I don't know.

13:32

I think the question of like every

13:34

brand every year seems to come out

13:36

with anywhere from one to like seven

13:38

new cookie recipes. And at the end

13:40

of the day, how many people need

13:42

another cookie recipe? You know, that was

13:45

me. I guess I had taken the

13:47

page out of Inez's book last year.

13:49

So we didn't do it. And we were mad

13:51

at you. And you guys were mad at me.

13:53

I'll be honest. Well, you were like, you know,

13:55

the space is inundated with cookies, which it is.

13:58

People will get their cookies elsewhere if they need

14:00

to and we can provide a different service,

14:02

which is a good point. And yet I

14:04

was like, I want to do cookies. I

14:07

know. And then we didn't do it. And then

14:10

I was like, Oh, I feel like 15% sadder,

14:12

you know, that

14:14

we didn't tackle cookies as a team,

14:16

you know, and when this year rolled

14:18

around, I think we all

14:20

felt so strongly that we

14:22

wanted to have a really fun cookie

14:25

moment. And I feel like we did it.

14:27

Yeah, I'm so happy that we did it in

14:29

this way to where every member

14:31

of the test kitchen got to like, do

14:33

their thing. And we got to see

14:35

the breadth of what a

14:38

cookie box curated by our group would

14:40

look like. Yeah, totally. And they took

14:43

all types of forms and shapes. And

14:45

the whole conceit was sort of like

14:47

the BA kind of test kitchen slash

14:49

staff does a cookie swap, right? We

14:52

all kind of bring our own kind

14:54

of cookies and personalities and ideas and

14:56

personas to the table. Well,

14:59

except for me, of course, because I did

15:01

not develop a cookie this year. I

15:04

just ate the cookies this year. But the fact that

15:06

we did them was enough for me. And

15:08

so I want to do a cookie

15:11

swap swap where we go around and

15:13

we each talk about one of the

15:15

cookies that our colleagues made this year

15:17

that we just totally fell head over

15:20

heels for. How does that sound? Sounds

15:22

good. I'm in agreement. Yeah.

15:25

And as like, I want like 38%

15:28

more energy, like the work is done,

15:30

the hard part is over. Don't

15:33

worry, we're not going to make you do another cookie for

15:35

like at least nine months. It was definitely

15:37

a challenge, but I'm glad to

15:39

be on the other side of it. Okay.

15:41

Inez, take us out of the gate here.

15:43

What was the cookie, you know, from the

15:46

ones that we developed this year that you want

15:48

to talk about? I think hands down, it's the

15:50

one that embodies just sort of my philosophy

15:52

around cookies and my sentiments, but also

15:54

like ease me into just like, okay,

15:56

I can accept this cookie. It

15:59

was Rachel. chili cheese cookie,

16:01

I think it was one of those

16:03

things that I'd never seen before. Could

16:05

not conceptualize it, I think when she

16:08

was first like telling me about the idea, I

16:10

was like, how are we gonna bridge that sort

16:12

of world between like something being a savory cracker

16:14

and then a cookie, like what is a cookie?

16:16

I think it sent me into this space of

16:18

just like thinking of that and that existentialism brought

16:20

me to one of the greatest things I've ever

16:22

had. I think it had everything that I could

16:24

ever want. It was salty, one of

16:26

my faves. It had cheddar

16:29

cheese, so it was sharp and had

16:31

a generous just like addition of Aleppo

16:33

around the sugar crusting. There's something just

16:35

about how everything came together. Everything was

16:37

so cohesive but so different. It's one

16:39

of those things that you could never

16:41

imagine until you have it. I

16:43

would have never seen it working as well as

16:45

it did and it's beautiful. Like it's just everything

16:47

I like about eating. The way it looks, it's the way it

16:49

tastes and then also just like the way

16:51

it reimagined for me what cookies can be was

16:53

really what sold it for me. Yeah, it's

16:56

like it's so squarely a cookie. Like

16:58

the thing about that cookie is like

17:00

we've done like the Ina Garten, we

17:02

did it in the magazine I think

17:04

for last Thanksgiving even. The Ina Garten

17:06

slice and bake crackers that were like

17:08

cheddar crackers or Chipotle cheese crackers and

17:10

while the slice and bake part of

17:12

it are the same for those two

17:15

things, they could not taste more different.

17:17

They're so distinct and this is 100%

17:19

belongs in your cookie box, belongs

17:22

on your dessert table energy. It's the

17:25

sweetness against the chili that is like out

17:27

of this world. Right and it's so not

17:29

a cracker. I think that was the thing

17:31

too where I was just like how

17:33

did you get this to be so buttery and like

17:35

so smooth, it's so delicious. It's so

17:37

good. Yeah, I agree. Like

17:39

there's something about preserving that

17:42

slightly open, tender, buttery, crumbly,

17:44

more like almost like sable

17:46

texture of like a sweet

17:48

almost like shortbread style cookie but then

17:50

overlays this like savoriness to it. It's

17:52

not that it doesn't have sugar and

17:55

to your point it's not that it's

17:57

like a cracker. It has that like

18:00

wonderful kind of melt in your mouth

18:02

quality, tempered slightly by the fact that

18:04

there is that sort of like solidity,

18:06

you know, from the cheese, that kind

18:08

of comes in and sort of like

18:10

supports that structure, but it's a real

18:12

fun kind of like hybrid of like

18:14

both sweet and savory and just so

18:16

nicely done. Yeah, my husband

18:19

who is usually like anti-sweet

18:21

thing in his savory, he's like, you know, get

18:23

the fruit out of the salad type of energy.

18:26

I brought him home like a

18:28

quart container of these chili cheese

18:30

cookies and he demolished. Totally. What

18:34

about you, Rachel? Which cookie did you pick? I

18:36

picked Kendra's Matcha Swell

18:38

Spritz Cookies, actually. They

18:42

are Grinch colored, but I

18:44

feel like in your cookie box, you need

18:46

a cookie like this, you

18:49

know, that just oozes the

18:51

holidays. It is so inviting,

18:53

it's so bright and it's

18:55

so fun. And as

18:57

I was testing this recipe, I realized

19:00

how easy it is to make just

19:02

like this cookie is your inn. So,

19:04

you know, if I was friends with

19:06

Inez as a kid, I would be

19:08

like, let's make these cookies because you

19:11

have two colors, they're fun.

19:14

You know, you use your little

19:16

spritz press, which makes it more

19:18

fun and then you can decorate

19:20

it. So really an easy,

19:22

delicious kind of fun, creative

19:25

cookie. And

19:27

your cookie box, that is needed. And they're

19:29

so durable, I think that sometimes when I

19:31

saw you like making them with the gun,

19:33

I was like, oh my God, these

19:36

are gonna be like dainty. You

19:38

blow on them, they shatter cookies. But I think

19:40

that just like the integrity of them is also

19:42

like really impressive and they're so much more than

19:44

meets the eye, they're so gorgeous. Yeah. I

19:46

feel like cookie presses have fallen kind of

19:48

out of favor. I don't know, is that

19:50

fair? No, I think that's true. No, it's

19:53

true. This is a style of cookie that

19:55

is, you know, born of the fact that

19:57

like there's certain doughs that just have such a

19:59

high proportion of. fat that you can't roll

20:01

and cut them because they would just

20:03

fall to bits like you'd never get

20:05

them off your surface. They're

20:08

too rich to be sliced.

20:10

You know, I guess you could drop

20:13

the dough, but then you would have

20:15

like a shapeless mass, right? But instead,

20:17

like the dough is extruded

20:19

like pasta, right? Like the press

20:21

is pushing it through one of

20:23

many plates that come

20:26

with the press. And I'm sure

20:28

there's gotta be some wild Etsy

20:30

store devoted to like

20:32

specific vintage cookie press

20:34

forms to those dyes.

20:36

And it gives you

20:39

this cookie that like, Inez, I

20:41

think you mentioned like Danish butter

20:43

cookies, right? Like a cookie that

20:45

is like, it's so buttery and

20:47

so tender, so melt in

20:49

your mouth, just wants to just like Evaness

20:51

at the touch, you know, of like finger.

20:53

I have like a very

20:56

strong association with holiday spritz cookies

20:58

because my grandma, she always had

21:00

green Christmas trees in the mixture, right? And

21:02

because she was an Italian American, she had

21:04

to put like multicolored no parades all

21:07

over them. I mean, just like literally, she

21:09

must have had a cannon, she would just

21:11

like be firing colored sprinkles at like everything

21:13

she ever baked. With this cookie

21:15

with the chili cheese cookie and the ones

21:18

that you know, we're going to be talking

21:20

about shortly as well. I think the question

21:22

for me is always like, what is the

21:24

thing that's going to draw people in? You

21:26

know, like what about each cookie makes it

21:29

feel familiar and inviting? What is

21:31

like that additional layer that's new that

21:33

we're bringing to it this year? And

21:35

that inclusion of matcha really felt like

21:37

the one thing that was going to

21:40

make this spritz cookie feel like it

21:42

was different from every other spritz cookie

21:44

out there. Yeah, for sure. And

21:46

crazily, great timing. We actually just tested I

21:48

was talking to Sonia Chopra earlier and she

21:50

was like, you should figure out a way

21:53

that you can use this dough for people

21:55

who don't have a press. So just earlier

21:57

this morning, we sort of marbled the two

21:59

colors together. and rolled it into a log,

22:01

and then froze that for 30 minutes, and

22:03

then sliced and baked it, and it worked

22:05

great. So if you don't have a press,

22:07

you actually can still make these cookies. They

22:10

won't be as, like, extraordinarily gorgeous, but

22:12

they are really delicious still. If I

22:14

do say so myself, they are. Okay,

22:17

Kendra, you are up next. Okay,

22:19

so the cookies that I chose were

22:21

the cookies that were the biggest journey

22:24

this year, which were

22:26

Inez's baklava cookies. They

22:30

were absolutely worth, there was a lot of

22:32

trial, but it was worth it. And a

22:34

lot of error. It's okay. There

22:36

was even more error at the trial. It was so

22:39

worth it. Like, Inez came in with this

22:41

idea of, like, baklava, but make it a

22:43

cookie, which, you just hear

22:45

that phrase, and you're like, I'm in,

22:47

sold, take all my money, like, I

22:49

want that, and with such diligence, she

22:52

tried to make there be

22:55

phyllo dough in this cookie.

22:57

Like, tried so hard to make that be true,

22:59

and it fought her every step of the way

23:01

to the point where at the end, it was

23:03

like, no, we're not

23:06

using this dough at all.

23:08

We're taking the beautiful, honey,

23:10

nutty, gorgeous filling of

23:12

a piece of baklava, and

23:14

we're stuffing it into the

23:16

belly of sugar cookie dough

23:18

and baking it off. And

23:20

then we're tossing that in

23:22

this spiced, rose-pedley sugar mixture.

23:25

I mean, it is not only so delicious,

23:28

like, when you bite into it,

23:30

visually seeing that, like, nutty belly

23:32

on the inside. We're like molten

23:35

inside. God, it's so good. But

23:37

also, the fragrance, like, it really,

23:39

if you just close your eyes,

23:41

it smells like baklava. That mixture

23:43

of pistachio and rose, it's so

23:45

evocative to me. This is

23:47

definitely the cookie that I will be making

23:49

this year. I think it's so stunning, and

23:51

the payoff is huge. I know there was

23:54

a labor of love, but we are so

23:56

grateful to you for sticking with it. Thank

23:58

you so much. What did Chris say earlier? I don't

24:00

want to oveness right now. For

24:03

someone who does not like cookies in

24:05

S, it was amazing to see your

24:07

journey and then to just see the

24:09

result of this cookie being, it's a

24:11

special cookie. Thank you so much. It's

24:13

so special. And now we

24:16

know, CeeLo Dough is not a cookie,

24:18

it's for the other stuff. Save

24:21

it for your spanakopita. No,

24:23

it definitely gave Test Kitchen. Yeah,

24:25

it definitely was giving experience,

24:28

but I think it showed me too, just

24:30

like, that's the whole point of this, or just like,

24:32

I think that's what's so spectacular about each one

24:34

of these cookies is that it really does do

24:36

the work of reimagining what a cookie is

24:39

and just like, we get cookies every year.

24:41

But I've never seen some like these. No,

24:43

these are, it's so good. And like, when

24:45

you say it's a cookie, but it's baklava,

24:47

there are a lot of different directions you

24:49

could go because baklava can be a lot

24:51

of different things. And this, I

24:53

think, is like the perfect combination. I love

24:55

it so much. It's a great cookie.

24:58

Yeah, there was pretty much a 0% chance

25:00

of us walking out of this recording session,

25:03

not having discussed the baklava cookie, even if

25:05

nobody had chosen it. Because

25:08

I think developing recipes professionally is

25:10

sort of predicated on this notion

25:12

of being able to

25:14

sort of like, pitch people an idea,

25:16

right? Like baklava cookie, that sounds

25:19

great. Just like take something that is

25:21

familiar and you know, but add

25:23

an element that is unfamiliar and away

25:25

you go off to the kitchen to

25:27

make it a reality. Well, I mean, like

25:29

the nature of recipe developing is that you

25:32

hope you can make good on that promise.

25:34

Or otherwise stated, to your point,

25:36

Kendra, like there's multiple

25:39

sort of possible outcomes to

25:41

that setup, right? And it's

25:43

so rare that what we

25:45

initially go into pitches with is

25:48

what comes out here. Oh, yeah.

25:50

Like it inevitably goes through mountains

25:52

of changes or else you didn't

25:55

really test it. Yeah,

25:57

there's a lot of trial and error

25:59

because Yeah, to your point, it's

26:01

like we were using phyllo dough in ways

26:03

that were perhaps not entirely in line with

26:07

its capabilities, but we were really trying to push

26:09

the law. Yeah, crimes against culinary. Can we just

26:11

have that? It was... But

26:14

I think that was really important, Inez.

26:16

I know sometimes the journey is very

26:18

painful, and I agree,

26:20

there comes a moment where I

26:22

think we all collectively sense that,

26:24

you know what? You're not just

26:26

gonna simply cook your way out

26:28

of this problem, you need to

26:30

pivot. You need to adapt, and you

26:32

need to kind of find a new

26:34

direction to let this concept, this

26:36

idea breathe. And I think you

26:38

did that so well. The moment

26:41

at which you kind of maintained, you

26:44

know what, this is not meant to

26:46

be a phyllo-based cookie. We are gonna

26:48

do something different. We are gonna do

26:50

essentially like a drop-style sort of neutral

26:52

sugar cookie dough, and we're gonna encase

26:54

the filling within it. It's like, hey,

26:56

at that point, go for it. It

26:58

sounds really smart, it solves

27:00

the problem, and it still delivers on

27:02

that sort of central premise of like,

27:04

we're gonna give you a baklava cookie.

27:06

Even more so, I would argue. Like,

27:09

I didn't know that this would be the case, but

27:12

if we had used it, and you had

27:15

miraculously gotten it to be a cookie, I

27:17

would've been like, well, this is just baklava,

27:19

but in a different shape. And this instead

27:21

really delivered on it being a cookie, but

27:23

with the flavors of baklava. Right, and I

27:26

think it challenged me ultimately to define like,

27:28

in my own mind, okay, what is baklava?

27:30

It's not flaky pastry, it's not flaky pastry.

27:32

Yeah. So then it also gives you

27:34

an opportunity to assess, what is this thing? And ask

27:37

those questions for yourself. You can experience something so many

27:39

times, but until you really sit with it, and like

27:41

sort of like dissect it, you don't know what it

27:43

is. Yeah. Well, lastly,

27:45

the cookie that I wanted to

27:47

talk about is Jessie

27:49

Chef-Chex Morris cookie. And

27:52

part of the reason is that

27:54

the process was almost exactly like

27:56

the baklava cookie. Right, it's like

27:58

somebody says s'mores. cookie and the

28:01

deep voice inside you is

28:03

just like, yes, I want

28:05

that. But the question

28:07

is like, okay, what aspect of a

28:09

s'mores are you trying to recreate and

28:11

how and how do you do it

28:14

in such a way that a home

28:16

cook, somebody who doesn't feel nearly the

28:18

same confidence that you might in the

28:20

kitchen, is able to follow

28:23

it and recreate that. And

28:25

Jesse started off making a sort

28:27

of a Linzer style cookie. It was like a graham

28:30

cracker crumb based dough

28:32

that then used a

28:34

layer of toasted marshmallow in the sort

28:37

of like what would normally be the

28:39

jam layer of a Linzer with a

28:41

window pane sort of top slab of

28:43

cookie on top of it. And forgot

28:45

that's how this cookie started. Yeah, how

28:47

it started, right? I mean, isn't that

28:49

like freaking wild? We

28:51

kind of looked at it and we're like, this

28:53

is like really clever. This is pleasant. And then

28:56

it was like, yeah, let's change it. Like it's

28:58

not enough just because it's reimagining the s'mores experience.

29:00

It's not necessarily taking what's great

29:03

about a s'mores and amplifying that.

29:06

Right? And actually when you sit there and

29:08

think about it, is a s'mores like that

29:10

good? You know, if you weren't in the

29:12

woods, if you hadn't gotten bitten by like

29:14

100 mosquitoes that day and also had a

29:16

sunburn, would it hit the same way? And

29:19

so instead of like hard kind of

29:22

crappy graham crackers that like you forgot

29:24

about last summer and our like back

29:26

for like this summer's s'mores

29:28

rodeo, you have like a

29:30

drop style cookie that's very tender

29:32

and uses graham cracker crumbs still

29:34

in the dough, but it's like

29:36

a soft, chewy, crispy cookie. You

29:38

then have marshmallow fluff store bought,

29:41

which is broiled in the oven.

29:43

Like I couldn't believe this. He

29:45

just spreads it out on a

29:47

baking sheet, broils the heck out

29:49

of it until it's like black

29:51

and then incorporates that torched marshmallow

29:53

stirs it back through the rest

29:55

of the fluff. And funnily enough,

29:57

it does. You would think that

29:59

it would. the whole thing would turn

30:01

black. It doesn't, it's still like mostly white.

30:03

And it comes off the sheet pan

30:05

really easy. It's actually crazy. Like how

30:07

does it, I don't even know. I

30:11

thought that was gonna be a disaster to clean

30:13

up and he just scraped it right off and

30:15

plopped it back in the jar, it's amazing. Yeah,

30:17

completely. And then he has like a water-based ganache,

30:20

so just like a mixture of melted chocolate with

30:22

water just to thin it out so that it

30:24

stays kind of supple when it firms back up.

30:26

And then it's done, you know, as a sandwich

30:29

cookie, what do we call that,

30:31

like a- Like a whoopie pie. Yeah, so

30:33

it's like, again, it's like following these like

30:35

really fun, really compelling kind of ideas and

30:38

inspiration, but following them through the journey of

30:40

how they became a reality and all the

30:42

decisions that kind of went into it along

30:45

the way. I just love that like it

30:47

took all of the great things about

30:49

s'mores and made them better and made

30:51

them replicable and something that you can

30:53

pass out on a plate around the

30:56

holidays or any time of year, frankly.

30:58

It would really only be Jesse,

31:00

Cookie Prince, who would think I'm

31:02

gonna take graham crackers, put them

31:04

into a powder and then use

31:06

that as the flour in my

31:09

coffee. Like that's some

31:11

evil scientist thinking and it

31:13

paid off. All

31:17

right, we're gonna take another break. When

31:19

we get back, we've got a cookie

31:22

box full of listener questions.

31:28

If you're like me, you're probably excited that

31:37

we're getting into the holiday dinner spirit

31:39

with delicious favorites like mashed potatoes and

31:42

biscuits, which is why

31:44

I highly recommend checking out gravy. No,

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So go ahead, follow Gravy on

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Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite

32:32

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32:35

set you. Hi

32:37

listeners, it's Chris. On Dinner

32:39

SOS, we offer you cooking advice to make

32:41

your week a little less stressful. So

32:44

I want to share another podcast with you

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app and follow the show. Welcome

33:31

back to Dinner SOS. This

33:34

year we got a bunch of listener

33:36

questions about baking, gift-worthy cookies, and we're

33:38

going to tackle a few of them

33:40

together, mailbag style. Okay,

33:43

I'm reading the first question. Email

33:45

from Callie. I'm an avid

33:47

cook slash baker and stay-at-home mom

33:50

with three kids under three. Yikes.

33:53

And I'm wanting to do lovely treat boxes

33:55

for my neighbors this year. However, my free

33:57

time is limited and I'd love to be...

34:00

able to do prep work early in the season

34:02

as I have windows of time.

34:04

Is there a collection of cookies,

34:07

confections, desserts, etc. that freeze well

34:09

ahead of time, look gorgeous, and

34:11

can be arranged in a Pinterest-worthy

34:13

manner for holiday gifting? I

34:16

love this question. This woman is

34:18

my mother. My mom makes not,

34:20

you know, my Aunt Mary Anne's level of

34:22

cookies, but a good number of cookies every

34:25

year. And she makes them like the week

34:27

after Thanksgiving and freezes them all. And then

34:29

they live in our freezer until the week

34:31

of Christmas when she takes them all out

34:33

and arranges them and gives them to people

34:35

and whatever. Cookies stand up really, really well

34:38

to the freezer, fully baked. And all you

34:40

have to do is like take them out

34:42

and put them on a platter and they

34:44

will come to room temperature on their own

34:46

and they are no worth for it. There's

34:48

a lot of cookie doughs that you can

34:50

freeze as doughs and then bake them off

34:53

if you want sort of like more freshness

34:55

to that. But the fully baked cookie will

34:57

last. My mom does it like she piles

34:59

them on a paper plate and then puts

35:02

the plate in a ziplock bag and then

35:04

piles the ziplock bag paper plates in the

35:06

freezer and, you know,

35:08

divided by type of cookie. But that

35:11

really works. Fully agree. Whether you

35:13

want to do frozen dough, in

35:15

which case, you know, portioning your

35:17

cookies ahead of time is key

35:19

unless it's a slice and bake.

35:21

Like portioning, rolling into balls, freezing

35:23

on a baking sheet and then

35:25

transferring to a ziplock and labeling

35:27

it. That's definitely the play with

35:29

like so many drop style of cookies. I think

35:31

you could make caramels in

35:34

advance. Toffee caramel. They last

35:36

such a long time and you don't

35:38

need to freeze them. From our cookie

35:40

package, I would recommend she make the

35:42

matcha spritz, even the

35:44

chili cheese cookies and Hannah's

35:47

tiramisu cookies. You could totally make them in

35:49

advance, I think, and just freeze it and

35:51

then let them come to room temperature and

35:53

they would taste the same. I think so.

35:55

I think they would even be really good

35:57

cold. Yeah, I think they Hannah's cookies, those

35:59

tiramisu cookies. cookies, another insane transformation

36:01

of snowbell cookies. Yeah. Love

36:03

that. Any final thoughts

36:05

for Callie? I think most of the cookies

36:08

in this package even are giving Pinterest. Yeah,

36:10

I think that she has so many options.

36:12

Perfect. And we love a

36:14

proactive queen. Get on your holiday baking

36:16

now. Correct. Definitely. All right, next up,

36:18

we have a voice memo from Abby.

36:23

Hi, Chris. I have a holiday

36:25

dinner SOS. And

36:27

it has to do with holiday cookies. So

36:30

always try to make a bunch of office cookies. And

36:32

every year, I don't mind that it's

36:34

a whole thing, but every year I try to

36:37

do a molasses cookie, a chocolate

36:39

chip cookie, maybe a frosted cookie.

36:42

And I feel like when I make these cookie

36:44

recipes by themselves, they always taste better. The

36:46

fact that there's so much going on in

36:49

the one cookie bake-a-thon, if you

36:51

will, seems like you lose a

36:53

little quality. And I was thinking there's

36:55

probably a cookie framework that I don't

36:57

know, like make one dough and do

36:59

a bunch of things with it. So

37:01

that's my holiday dinner SOS. Wow,

37:04

OK. I mean, I feel like there's

37:07

kind of like two things in here for me. One

37:09

is just like, what's like a

37:11

category killing holiday cookie to rule

37:14

them all, kind of, right? But

37:16

then also, she's asking

37:18

about what is a cookie framework that

37:20

she doesn't know to the point of

37:22

make one dough and potentially do a

37:25

bunch of things with it. Like,

37:28

to my mind, like one cookie that

37:30

does a bunch of things, I'm always

37:32

a little suspect about. Yeah. Versatility

37:34

is not necessarily what I'm going

37:36

for. I would like a well-angled

37:39

cookie rather than a well-rounded cookie.

37:41

Like, I want it to be

37:43

very much its own sort

37:45

of particular thing. I wouldn't like it

37:47

if we tried to make Rijal's Chili

37:49

Cheese Cookies be baklava. You

37:52

know what I mean? I want it

37:54

to feel distinctive. That said, like a

37:56

plain sugar cookie dough, you could roll

37:58

it out. and

38:01

make a dulce de leche filling, and now

38:03

you have a sandwich cookie. You could make

38:05

a lens or cookie with jam. You could

38:08

fold in chocolate or frost the tops and

38:10

use sprinkles. You could do quite a bit

38:12

with a single sugar cookie dough, but the

38:14

taste is just going to be the same

38:16

sort of across the board. So I think

38:19

that makes sense for if you want sort

38:21

of visual variance, but in terms of one

38:24

spectacular bite, I think you're better served

38:26

finding a very unique cookie

38:29

flavor-wise that can sort of jolt people

38:31

out of the sort of humdrum nature

38:33

of eating the same kind of cookie

38:36

again and again. Right, or if you

38:38

are making a variety, you know, you

38:40

stick to some of the classics and

38:42

then every year you make one unique

38:45

cookie. One new cookie that you haven't

38:47

made before satisfies everything. Somebody wants a

38:49

chocolate chip cookie, it's there, or a

38:52

gingerbread one, it's there, and then you

38:54

push the limits a little bit with

38:56

the new cookie. The wild card. Yeah,

38:59

and that's the beauty of the project, right? I think it

39:01

goes back to cookies, like in my mind at

39:03

least being inherently laborious. There's

39:05

a reason that you're taking on the project

39:07

and not getting the tin of cookies that

39:10

have the same dough, just like they all

39:12

taste the same. So I think that's the

39:14

beauty of the process of it all. Yeah,

39:16

I actually, I'm gonna revise my earlier statement.

39:18

If she is gonna do one thing to

39:20

use multiple ways, I think the molasses cookie

39:23

that you mentioned could live a couple of

39:25

different lives. Like you could roll the ball

39:27

in sugar before you bake it so it

39:29

has that crust, sugar crust outside. You could,

39:31

you know, the softer sort of chewier molasses

39:33

cookies you could make into like a

39:36

whoopie pie style by like

39:38

sandwiching a cream between them. You

39:40

could ice the top of it,

39:42

but that does feel distinctly holiday

39:45

in flavor more than a sugar

39:47

cookie does to me. Correct. Yeah,

39:49

I agree with all this. My

39:51

advice is like don't expect one

39:53

dough to do multiple things necessarily,

39:56

like from like a flavor perspective, like as

39:58

soon as you start adding. different ingredients

40:00

to a dough. Like they can change

40:02

the structure of the dough, they can

40:04

impact performance. But what Kendra is talking

40:07

about with the molasses cookies, using that

40:09

one dough for its own merits, but

40:11

kind of like almost doing like a

40:13

finishing treatment that kind of skews it

40:15

in one direction or another. Like the

40:17

example I was thinking of is like,

40:19

either with your spritz cookie as well,

40:21

Kendra, or like, you know, my zebra

40:23

striped shortbread cookie, swirling in like a

40:26

different color. You can do like, you

40:28

know, multiple tints to the dough using

40:30

food coloring, and then use multiple

40:32

standing sugar colors and types around

40:35

the outside. Just that,

40:37

like letting the each cookie kind of like

40:39

do its own thing, but just doing like

40:41

a final kind of like visual treatment can

40:44

multiply the impact of your cookie,

40:46

even if it's starting from like

40:48

a very simple place with just

40:50

like one dough. Totally. Okay, so

40:53

from Jessica, I've got, I'm a

40:55

competent cook, but I don't really

40:57

bake, but I love holiday cookie

40:59

boxes. I've compromised with myself by

41:02

learning how to make biscotti and nothing

41:04

else. The problem is that each

41:06

year, I like to make three or four kinds.

41:08

And usually I'm trying to create at least one

41:10

new flavor. When I look for recipes to start

41:12

from, they vary dramatically. And since I don't know

41:14

a lot about baking, I can't wrap my head

41:17

around what it means that one recipe calls for

41:19

six eggs and another calls for three eggs plus

41:21

one egg yolk. I know it matters,

41:23

but not how or why. So the problem becomes

41:25

when I try to put new stuff in the

41:28

biscotti, I'm throwing off the delicate balance of dry

41:30

and wet and hard and soft. And

41:32

that isn't always great. Can you help

41:34

me with a base recipe and tips

41:36

about adding things like dried fruit, nuts,

41:38

cocoa powder and extracts. I'm lucky that

41:40

my family will eat them no matter

41:42

what, but that doesn't stop me from

41:44

wanting to quote, get it right. Paging

41:47

Jessie's chef's check. Beep, beep, beep,

41:49

beep, beep, beep, Jessie, Jessie solved

41:51

this problem for you. Almost like

41:54

it was meant to be. It's

41:56

like the do anything biscotti cookie

41:59

recipe. recipe for Epicurious, it's truly exactly

42:01

what you're looking for. I can't believe

42:03

it. We've solved your problem in the

42:05

most perfect way. It's like, how can

42:07

the base be vanilla? How can the

42:09

base be chocolate? Do you want to

42:11

fold in nuts or dried fruit or

42:13

whatever? Do you want to glaze on

42:15

top? Do you want a chocolate dip?

42:17

Lots of different variations built within the

42:19

same base recipe framework so you don't

42:21

have to do what we do all

42:24

the time, which is that crazy math

42:26

to make sense of varying recipes. Correct.

42:28

I want to say it's like any

42:30

Scotty. So cute. Yeah,

42:32

we've seen this before with like

42:34

brownies, etc. When you start throwing

42:36

like cocoa powder around that is

42:39

going to function as a dry

42:41

ingredient almost as though you've added

42:43

flour. And that's going to create

42:45

toughness and hardness and certain elements

42:48

like nuts and dried fruit can

42:50

be interchangeable. But just starting from

42:52

one great base recipe, exactly that

42:54

Jesse recipe was phenomenal. It's like

42:57

not too hard, but not too

42:59

soft. And it seemed incredibly

43:01

easily accommodating of a

43:03

multitude of mix-ins. I

43:09

hope we solved cookies for this year, but

43:12

I guess time will tell right? Any

43:14

final cookie thoughts from anyone? I

43:17

think you should make them. Make

43:21

cookies. Yeah. And don't

43:23

let your past cookie

43:25

hating stop you from participating in

43:27

the cookie festivities. Give it

43:29

a try. Here, here. Well,

43:32

listen, thank you all so much

43:34

for joining us and for all

43:36

of your contributions to this amazing,

43:38

beautiful cookie package. I'm so glad

43:40

we jumped back into cookies wholeheartedly.

43:42

Mouths open this year. And yeah,

43:44

it's really fun to have you

43:46

all on. I'm going to remind

43:48

you next year when you try

43:50

to say we don't need cookies, I'm going to

43:53

play this episode back. I know.

43:55

You're 15% regret. Well, you

43:57

know, there'll be another mountain to climb next

43:59

year. There always is. If

44:30

you enjoyed this episode, please give us

44:33

a rating and review on your

44:35

podcast App of Choice. And

44:37

hit that follow button so you never miss an

44:39

episode. Thanks for

44:41

listening to Dinner S.O.F. I'm

44:43

your host, Chris Morocco. My

44:45

co-host this week are Inez Anziano,

44:48

Rachel Gurdjur, and Kendra Vaculin. Our

44:50

producer is Michelle O'Brien. Jordan

44:53

Bell is our executive producer. Peyton

44:55

Hayes is our associate producer. Cameron

44:57

Sous is our assistant producer. Jake

45:00

Loomis is our studio engineer. Amar

45:02

Lal makes this episode. Next

45:05

week, Navey is in charge of

45:07

Christmas dinner for her husband's family,

45:10

but the number of dietary restrictions

45:12

simply overwhelming. So

45:15

in this family, there is a

45:18

garlic allergy. I

45:20

am celiac. We

45:22

have a dairy-free family member.

45:24

We have a no-pork family

45:27

member. And we have

45:29

a flexitarian who will eat chicken.

45:32

That's mostly it. And

45:35

it's just a lot to accommodate

45:37

for. Thank

45:55

you. you

46:44

I just know that you're a foodie

46:46

who loves to learn, so I'm excited

46:48

to tell you about If This Food

46:51

Could Talk from our friends at APT

46:53

Podcast Studios.