0:00

Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is the

0:02

Distraction Pieces podcast episode 565. And

0:06

today I'm joined by one of my

0:09

favorite humans in the world. OK,

0:11

I said that at the beginning of the Beethoven

0:13

episode, but I don't say it often. It just

0:16

happens I've had two of my favorite humans in

0:18

the world within the

0:20

last month and two of my favorite conversations in

0:22

the world. I came off of this conversation and

0:24

I was streaming on Twitch that night and

0:27

I said, I think I might have had

0:29

my favorite conversation of the year today. And then

0:31

I went, oh, but that conversation would be

0:33

Dolan. And I had a really nice

0:36

conversation with Chris Glasson of the

0:38

Hardcore Listing podcast recently, but yeah,

0:41

this might trump them all. I'm joined

0:43

today by my dear friend Ed Scrine,

0:46

star of many a Hollywood film and

0:48

just a great person. The

0:50

first episode I did with Ed

0:52

was like at least eight years ago and

0:54

it was a two part and I had

0:57

so many people reach out about that over

0:59

the years. It's up there. It's one of

1:01

the it's seen as one of the classic

1:03

Distraction Pieces episodes with your gal, Paul, as

1:05

you ready, Temple Morrises. You

1:07

know, there's loads, there's loads. It's up

1:09

there with them. So

1:11

I was delighted to have Ed back

1:13

on and the timing was perfect. And

1:15

Ed speaks so calmly and in such

1:18

a considered manner. When

1:20

we talk, it's never just people

1:22

taking it in turns to have their

1:25

rant or their ramble. It's always a

1:27

real consideration of what the other has

1:29

said an absorption and then a reflection.

1:31

God, I sound like such a hippie.

1:35

Damn, it's a really good

1:37

chat. I promise you, we talk a little

1:39

bit at the end about music and we're brought to you

1:42

as ever by speech development records dot

1:44

com. That's where you can get all my

1:46

music and you should you can get my

1:48

music and my wonderful merch is

1:50

cracking. We're also brought to you by

1:52

patreon.com forward slash ScrubiousPipio, where you can

1:54

now support for one dollar, three dollars

1:56

or five dollars a month, and

1:58

it all makes a difference. If you've

2:00

been listening for example since that early, that

2:03

last Ed Scrying episode, then maybe it'd be

2:05

nice to chip in some money, help keep

2:07

the lights on, you know what I mean?

2:09

Yeah, and we're also brought to you by

2:11

twitch.tv4 slash ScrubiousPipio, that's where you can come

2:13

and hang out with me. Took

2:16

nonsense, met about,

2:18

we have loads of music based streams, we

2:20

have loads of chat based streams, we have

2:22

game based streams, we have all sorts of

2:24

stuff. It's always a good time, and it's

2:27

a wonderful community over there, that's one of

2:29

the things that's been the best thing I've

2:31

got from Twitch, is the community that I've got

2:33

to meet and nurture. Let's

2:37

go on with the episode, shall we? If

2:39

you don't know Ed's, you're

2:41

mad. Ed's in Rebel Moon, as

2:43

we recorded this, part one was out and part two

2:45

was on its way, and as I've

2:48

recorded this intro, that is still the case,

2:50

but I'm very excited that part two will

2:52

be out shortly, and will be already out

2:54

for those who are listening. I'm making a

2:56

meal of this, ending of the

2:58

intro. Ed was also in Deadpool, I

3:01

used to be famous, amazing film

3:03

Ed did on Netflix,

3:05

we talk about that. On

3:07

the previous one, we talk about Ill Manners,

3:09

which is what kind of started it all

3:11

for Ed, brought him from a rap

3:14

career into an acting career. I

3:16

recommend you listen to this and

3:18

go back and re-listen to the last

3:20

chat, because it is a classic. It

3:23

certainly had a lot of things that

3:25

have continued to influence me in my

3:27

day-to-day life going forward, and

3:30

this one will too. It was beautiful.

3:32

We had a beautiful conversation, and

3:36

we hugged hard on

3:39

greeting and farewell. So I hope

3:41

you enjoy this. As I

3:43

said, this is the Distraction Pieces podcast episode 565

3:45

with Ed Scroin. It's

4:09

all picking up. It all looks good to me. I'm

4:11

here today with Ed Skryan. How are you, mate?

4:13

I'm good, mate. It's nice to see your big

4:15

smile, bruv. It's fucking delightful to see you. And

4:17

we've been lining this up for

4:20

a bit, but I feel like I

4:22

say this every week. I think these things come

4:24

at the right time and there's loads I want

4:26

to talk to you about and get into. And

4:28

we've tried not to talk ourselves out before round

4:30

because we were literally like, let's come up and

4:32

record. And then we've spent 10 minutes

4:34

having a bit of a catch up. And now we're like,

4:36

let's go in. But how are you just as a

4:38

general across the board? How are you at the moment?

4:41

Well, today is a beautiful day. Beginning

4:44

of spring, proper feel optimistic

4:46

come from watching my boy play

4:48

football, which is, you know,

4:51

partly my happy place. Yeah, how'd that go? It

4:53

was really, really good, man. It was really

4:55

good. He's doing us all proud. And last

4:58

time we saw each other, we were watching

5:00

your boys swim. We went along

5:02

long to a swimming lesson. I remember. Oh,

5:04

yeah. And you were like, no, I've got

5:06

this, but just come along if you

5:08

want, because we were struggling to get a time to catch

5:10

up. And I was again, I love my

5:12

first question on here is talking about

5:14

that balance because that was a big inspiration at the

5:17

time of going, all right, you've got this, you're

5:19

doing big things and you're dedicated to

5:21

it. And we'll get into that as well.

5:23

But you also dedicated to making it work

5:25

and balance and, you know,

5:27

how is that? The two are definitely

5:29

in opposition. Yeah, you know, the two

5:32

are really in opposition, but definitely they

5:34

help each other. I was watching Curb

5:36

Your Enthusiasm last night. Yeah. Because he's

5:38

a huge fan. And he's been cussing

5:40

me for years not getting into it.

5:43

And I've seen a bit along the way. I'm

5:46

season one, season one, episode five. It's

5:48

amazing watching it from the beginning and

5:50

seeing without digressing too much the birthplace

5:52

of, you know, the office and even

5:54

all the way up to people just do nothing and things.

5:56

It's like such an influence. It's interesting to begin as well,

5:58

because it is so hit and miss. It becomes quite

6:00

a show as it gets bigger, but the

6:02

beauty of those early series is there's loads

6:04

that you are just like, all right, this

6:06

is just... Yeah, I mean, partridge is like

6:09

that as well. Yeah, yeah. And really interestingly

6:11

looking on IMDb, partridge came out three years,

6:13

started three years before. Really? And so the

6:15

travel lodge and all that stuff, really

6:17

interesting in the shooting style. You

6:20

know, we all influence each other, but yeah,

6:22

really interesting sort of checking the dates.

6:24

The office started the year after that.

6:26

Yeah. Interesting. It's mad, isn't it? Brent,

6:28

one year after. So it's really

6:30

interesting seeing the influences. But anyway,

6:33

so I was watching Curb and

6:35

Larry was getting so pissed off

6:37

at American football. And he

6:39

was just going, he's going, I hate this so much.

6:41

Ray Ray was cussing. And I was thinking, oh yeah,

6:43

I remember when I used

6:45

to really get affected by

6:47

Liverpool and Ethan so far,

6:50

long ago, England football team. And

6:53

I remember reaching this point where I

6:55

was like, I need to make this

6:57

work because my life can't go on

6:59

like this forever. I can't be potentially

7:01

crying every Saturday or swearing

7:04

and shouting at the TV and have all this energy

7:07

in me. Yeah. And I've really got to

7:09

a beautiful place. So much so that

7:11

Liverpool losing 3-0 to Atalanta last night and

7:13

playing terribly is the source of an ironic

7:15

smile rather than any actual negativity. And I

7:17

can see the balance in it. And all

7:20

of that long-winded stuff to say, I realized

7:22

really early on in my career that I

7:24

had to do that with my family. And

7:27

I can't fight on two fronts. I

7:29

can't fight these separate fights because I'm

7:31

the one that loses. And

7:33

I need to make

7:36

peace with the dynamic,

7:38

with the way

7:41

that they're pushing against each other. And

7:43

I need to, again, like football, kind

7:45

of protect my mental health and protect

7:47

my balance and my

7:49

zen and my chi inside of that. So

7:52

it's really hard, but on

7:55

the whole, it's like being in

7:57

a relationship. You've got to work on it

7:59

every day. Yeah. During nuances and the

8:01

ones of us who been a long

8:03

once the time we ain't got no

8:05

Se noses was just I today A

8:07

you know is just one day by

8:09

a fucking day in and I'm is

8:11

with intention you know much like creativity

8:13

as well. You know that Quincy and

8:15

Rick Rubin inimitable talk about with amusing

8:17

stuff is like we spoke about for

8:19

we'll be sacred an inside man we

8:21

go to dancing said of a reason

8:23

and am so yeah and my life

8:25

is nothing but number one priority. Been

8:27

the best as I can be. Yeah

8:29

and creating the best humans I can

8:32

create. And when I say the best

8:34

and I mean you know most elite

8:36

know I mean. People

8:39

to contribute to a world I

8:41

enjoy being around and and that

8:43

we have we only j together.

8:45

Number two that the creative juices

8:48

flow. Let them let myself am

8:50

flattered. Creativity reveries my entire it's

8:52

an act in anything and then

8:54

number three After that is is

8:56

exercise mean he wants to Lawson

8:59

been healthy on the outside to

9:01

be healthy. On the inside

9:03

and with the three of them was kind

9:05

of realizes like same way was yellow mix

9:07

it's our nerves is like I got the

9:09

three of them and is that sometimes like

9:12

when we will move when I see the

9:14

net was out with a ten opposite and

9:16

sea level Eleven stamps and ten and then.

9:19

Wow the a once they will summon

9:21

well he exercises and sixty five just

9:23

sat in his own see I was

9:25

ten the most of yeah and then

9:27

you come back yeah and a sly

9:29

okay creativity. death is essentially down to

9:32

zero. Maybe one point five cause I'm

9:34

with problems. Little things for am families

9:36

up to ten immediately to sign that

9:38

he he and of exercise. Well that's

9:40

another thing. It's a scene of calibrate

9:42

in that the body in and also

9:45

the timetable. So it's like a lot

9:47

of my life. I realize now like.

9:49

i think even last time we

9:51

spoke with this will probably let

9:53

nineteen eighteen a long time on

9:55

his nose bus prolia some the

9:58

my fat he fixes sixteen I

10:00

came round to my gas in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I

10:02

think that was 16. It's

10:04

got to be eight years. It's weird, isn't it?

10:07

Fucking weird. We've got a couple more gray hairs

10:09

every year. Yeah. Jesus.

10:11

But yeah, anyway, I digress.

10:13

But yeah, yeah. I like it. I

10:15

think the key word I think is balance there. And

10:18

I think that's really important because I think often

10:20

people in the public eye will

10:22

give snippets of

10:24

their life or their focus or their

10:28

dedication and not explain that there's a

10:30

balanced side of it as well. I'm

10:32

thinking instantly of when that Mark

10:34

Wahlberg exercise kind of schedule and regime

10:37

came out. It's like, that's amazing. And

10:39

he looked insane in that period, but

10:41

it's not sustainable. And I think fitness,

10:44

and I want to talk about that more because

10:46

I want to talk about how much of that

10:48

is about your health and mental health, how much

10:50

of it is about the art form that you're

10:52

doing. Because I think these things are key. But

10:55

I think it is one that that's the thing

10:57

that I feel I'm in my best place fitness

10:59

wise, even though I'm not the fittest I've ever

11:02

been. Like I'm in a good range, but I'm

11:04

not the fittest I've ever been, but I've got

11:06

that balance. I know that, right, I'm keeping healthy.

11:09

I'm enjoying myself

11:11

when doing it. If I've got a reason to

11:13

go to the not enjoying it as much, but

11:16

for better results kind of area of fitness, then

11:18

I will. But finding that balance

11:20

and not beating myself up over things. And

11:23

I had one yesterday where I had a

11:25

workout I got there, I

11:27

started it, I wasn't feeling it. And

11:29

you've got a choice then of going, no,

11:31

determination, push through, accountability, all these things, and

11:33

that can be fine. But sometimes

11:35

it is right to go, no, I'm gonna chill

11:38

today, today and the day, and then tomorrow I'll

11:41

hit it properly and want to do it and

11:43

want to enjoy it. I

11:45

feel like there's a lot of pressure on us

11:47

from like clips of well-known figures that sometimes I

11:49

enjoy listening to as well, being like, you know,

11:51

you gotta push through, you gotta do it. Kindness

11:55

to yourself is so, If

11:57

you don't do the workout that day, and then you

11:59

all. Oh, don't go the next day. New

12:02

awesome. I'm gonna next day we got a

12:04

problem. Yeah, exactly. That is Not. Did.

12:06

Take the title of again don't go how

12:08

many atop a Ben and Jerry's these of

12:10

gear of you know maybe but this is

12:12

a smooth syllable one for me of learn

12:14

is if a force myself on that day

12:17

seven going to be force myself tomorrow I'm

12:19

going to be forced myself to die afterwards

12:21

Him I don't guy that died maybe even

12:23

not the next title of the next summer.

12:25

Come on the be so motivated and I'll

12:27

do so much better and feels so much

12:29

as I. I think the thing for me

12:31

is like the way I've always talked west

12:33

of this like a train for a decade.

12:35

Yeah yeah. When I was in. Martha

12:38

is a settlement isn't for you. Watch how

12:40

intensely he you know I'm forty one now.

12:42

What's how it's him safety pin and what

12:44

he wants. Same as sixty and watch and

12:47

it's not like oh and will be it

12:49

was going to be Look we know I'm

12:51

going to be. I'm gonna be

12:53

strong and then be Mobo. I'm going to

12:56

feel good enough. So is that long term

12:58

thing man. Same for the ten years and

13:00

is like so yeah. Chemists Today for that

13:02

does also mean that there's three hundred sixty

13:04

five days in the year and a baby

13:07

training for he entered the room near his

13:09

moon and for his today's when are the

13:11

days of today's when it a days off

13:13

and it took me a long time to

13:15

sell an M B kinds of myself same

13:17

way I think like something that comes with

13:20

training Once you decide that you want to

13:22

start training. Is like a certain

13:24

level of body dysmorphic think is really

13:26

really norm when something which I think

13:28

that is in talks about. Isn't.

13:31

Recognized lack with a lot of men and men

13:33

train in our when I'm in a gym. See.

13:35

A lot be when I'm not so easy

13:37

on how much like a fool of their

13:40

kind of a slave to the to the

13:42

gym and I'm. A might be creating

13:44

their it's in my head by am I

13:46

don't want to be slaves to the gym

13:48

I have read ah thought were quite a

13:51

lot recently I really know exactly why I

13:53

love the i just nine out of it

13:55

so much Yeah I'm so happy as been

13:57

to buy the of it as a marketing

13:59

thinking about like when people say those things

14:02

like are change his life since making machines

14:04

last always be like shut up you idiot

14:06

set up by you know was thinking about

14:08

that my happy place is like at the

14:10

end of the day. When. I'm watching

14:13

the show is our just proper sweet sauce

14:15

and I got so much on in my

14:17

life that that hours like actually doses do

14:19

minutes me I'm and when I was season

14:21

one of West vote and was like oh

14:23

my god you know in certain things that

14:25

when you watched hims upon it know he

14:27

watched him and and dame they are Macys

14:29

as I was thinking oh yeah I'm really

14:31

happy when on I know that when Elsa

14:33

Map yells at play when I'm of my

14:35

time when I'm in the gym when I'm

14:38

with the community when I'm with my guys

14:40

little my kids playing in a ring messing

14:42

around. Friends who spoke to each other and

14:44

jumping around and you know I'm here.

14:46

Empty in the tank next to someone

14:48

else is empty and the tenth and

14:50

you know we ram uplifted each other

14:52

at I'm so happy when I'm doing

14:54

that. And. When. I'm

14:56

on set of some have damning as a theme

14:59

here. was busy trying to kill again. I'm so

15:01

happy when I'm on set and when I'm working

15:03

and even when she to and in I'm. Not.

15:06

So enjoyable when they they can be. Let our

15:08

side of it when I'm on set. The still

15:10

enjoyable is only when I go home now for

15:13

fuck sake I want to go back. I want

15:15

to go. That's him at New Way of A

15:17

by I'm when I'm on set up in this

15:19

like I don't know why I love while of

15:21

exercise so much. I think about it with movies

15:24

was like Rebel Moon up pushed it's so hard

15:26

on them. More. Than I ever done in

15:28

my life. You know now isn't also said like

15:30

on this a week ago when you're fully. Assess

15:35

Anna even city young pups in the cost

15:37

in that capacity. and I mean unless a

15:39

discipline and at the end of it did

15:41

single. So why did up with so hard?

15:43

why did I see why I needed to

15:45

know when I look back and say okay

15:47

was really a statically I think is really

15:49

interesting for the character and you know other

15:51

movies that I used to be famous oh

15:53

ever stopped raining on purpose so I didn't

15:55

have muscles and definition. this one. i wanted

15:57

to be sinewy and weird and freaky and

16:00

I also wanted it to be otherworldly. I knew that

16:03

other members of the cast were doing a big chunky muscle thing.

16:05

I was like, now I want to be weird. So

16:07

yeah, I get it. But you know what? I'm a good

16:09

enough actor. I didn't need that. Yeah. I could have done

16:12

it without that. Yeah. So then it's

16:14

like, was I doing it because I needed

16:16

to, because I had so much

16:19

stunts to do. I had a lot of stunts in

16:21

this movie, more than any movie projects I've ever done

16:23

before. No, I just needed to be functional for that.

16:25

I could have done resistance bands, mobility.

16:28

I could have done yoga and Pilates reformer,

16:30

and they just stayed agile. I just kept doing

16:32

the Muay Thai. Didn't need to do nothing else.

16:35

Yeah. It's like, OK,

16:37

the whole cast, there's 10 of us in

16:39

the cast, everyone trained in inverted commas, but

16:41

way different levels of training. Yeah. Why did

16:43

I feel the need? I had to be

16:46

like, push it the hardest and the whole

16:48

time I knew like, this is a marathon

16:50

motherfuckers. Watch by the end of this. You

16:53

know, I joined like two or three months after a lot of them.

16:56

Why did I feel that thing of like, oh, I

16:58

have to push it to the extreme,

17:00

like really? And I don't

17:02

know, man. I mean, there's different reasons

17:04

with Rebel Moon. If I think about

17:07

it, it was probably somewhat

17:09

like a crutch. You know what I mean? Like

17:11

a mental crutch because like I was missing my

17:13

kids so much. We shot in LA. You

17:16

know, be careful what you wish for. The dream I

17:18

was shooting in Hollywood on the lot. Yeah,

17:20

I've always wanted to do that. I was big

17:23

budget. Come out of the warehouse. Come

17:25

out the hangar, the studio, look up

17:28

Hollywood sign. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

17:31

Look at that. Every day I was

17:33

like, look, there's the Hollywood sign looking at me coming

17:35

out of the studio. But

17:37

Hollywood's a long way from acne. And

17:41

like it was horrible to be away from the

17:43

kids that long. Covid restrictions, man, I couldn't travel

17:46

as much as I normally do. So that was tough.

17:48

So yeah, a lot of pressure and all that stuff.

17:50

And, you know, I'm not I wasn't very happy. And

17:52

I wonder whether that was a part of it as

17:54

well. It's like a sort of crutch. And whether I.

17:57

Here's something I can throw myself into and. and

18:00

have to, here's another reason I have to be

18:02

here because it's to push myself to

18:04

this next level. I think it was, I'm not just

18:06

turning up and clocking in, because I think that's the

18:09

key thing when you've got kids and I've not got

18:11

kids, but I spoke to Simon

18:13

Pegg about this. It's like, if something

18:16

is gonna take you away from your family,

18:18

it has to be worth it. It has

18:20

to be worth it artistically, everything. So I

18:22

think if you are away and

18:24

you are struggling, I can completely see that as

18:26

making you go, right, well, I

18:28

need to be putting everything into this because I

18:32

don't wanna walk away from this and just go, well, I

18:34

shouldn't have come, I shouldn't have been here. Interesting, this

18:36

is like the fucking purpose because what

18:38

I'm thinking now. A week, a week, exchange a

18:41

few voice notes, like a little while after you got back

18:43

and you said that it was a struggle, that was amazing,

18:45

but it was a struggle. And I could kind of hear

18:47

in your voice that it was like a wonderful

18:50

creative experience, but not the

18:52

easiest mental experience and physical

18:54

experience, you know? And I

18:56

think actually when I'm away

18:59

and I'm leaving the kids, I never want

19:01

time to myself. Not because I'm

19:03

scared of what I'll do, because I don't wanna do

19:05

nothing. I wanna go clubbing, I don't

19:07

wanna go drinking, even if it's like cast dinners

19:10

and shit, like we're gonna get to

19:12

know each other on set and we're gonna, you

19:14

know, if you're a nice person, we're gonna love each other

19:16

by the end of this. Like it will be the, you

19:18

know what I mean? I'll be your best friend on set.

19:20

I don't wanna link up outside of it, man. Yeah, I

19:22

relate on that. And you know, I've got so many friends

19:25

that I ain't even got time to see back in London,

19:27

like I'm good, you know? And like peace

19:29

and quiet is actually one of my favorite things that every

19:31

year that goes on, I just love solitude as well. So

19:33

if I get the chance for that, I take it. So

19:36

when I think about it, going that

19:38

hard with training, getting the stunt

19:41

guys to do extra training, kind of do this, it

19:43

was also a way of just filling up all my

19:45

time when I wasn't working.

19:47

So I didn't have enough time to miss

19:49

the kids and filled up the

19:51

time. So it was just, yeah, wake up in

19:53

the morning and I'd wake up

19:55

every Saturday morning after long days of

19:58

shooting. And by Friday, we'd be shooting until. one

20:00

in the morning. So I'd wake up eight

20:02

o'clock, he could clear up the

20:04

house by fucking eight thirty eight forty-five

20:06

training, doing the weight training

20:08

with everyone and every week I'd think I don't

20:10

want to go I'm so tired I just wish

20:12

I could lie in bed but when I think

20:15

about it subconsciously I think it was like yes

20:17

get up go, bang, work, come out,

20:20

have a fucking coffee and a banana

20:22

and then go and do

20:24

three hours of stunt work sliding around

20:26

and throwing swords and doing all this swinging

20:28

stuffs and all that and I'd think fucking

20:30

oh this is too much I understand what

20:32

a healthy load is and this is not

20:34

a healthy load but I think it's

20:36

not for long it's not for long and now

20:39

I think about it I do think that

20:41

it was like gave me an opportunity to kind of hide

20:43

from the reality that that

20:46

yeah like I'm in this industry because I

20:49

love being creative Saturday

20:51

and Sunday is not creative yeah soon as

20:53

I leave set it's not creative no

20:55

more yeah I'm doing my sessions

20:58

with my voice coaches my acting coaches

21:00

obviously I'm you know especially for a

21:02

character like Noble I love to learn

21:04

fucking lines there's a mad dialogue to

21:06

learn but it's not really

21:08

creative hmm so I'm not

21:10

really that it's not really that stimulating

21:13

so the only other thing my kids aren't here,

21:15

exercise yeah throw myself into that and

21:18

then it can become something kind of

21:20

unhealthy in a way although I'm like

21:22

especially seeing part two the

21:24

action in that is really really good

21:27

and wait till you see obviously the

21:29

extended cuts that are rated ones that

21:31

really and truly is the movies we

21:33

shot yeah right the action is fucking

21:35

sick and the physique is insane

21:38

in the word true's word of

21:40

insane yeah like Zach released his

21:42

photography book and when I

21:45

saw it I was like I'm a fucking

21:47

psychopath look at me I look insane

21:49

again I was insane in him times

21:51

it's what I wanted to kind of

21:53

talk about the the the work

21:56

side of fitness

21:58

because I'm a I remember reading, and

22:00

we've known each other since before I moved

22:02

into acting, and so I've gone through this

22:04

whole period and reading all these books and

22:07

so much of it I don't agree with

22:09

or I think is bullshit, but then there's

22:11

always these bits that stand out. And

22:13

I remember reading, I can't remember in which book,

22:15

but it was talking about it's an actor's responsibility

22:18

to have agency over their body

22:20

and their physicality, to have that

22:22

control so they can transform for

22:24

characters and be what they

22:27

need to be rather than just themselves

22:29

acting. I've never

22:31

heard the physical side of it. I

22:33

think Rebel Moon is a

22:35

great example of that because I think the physicality

22:38

of part one, as we speak now, part one's out and part

22:41

two is on its way. I

22:43

think it's a key part of it for that character.

22:46

What I loved about your performance in

22:48

that was that you

22:51

played this boots on

22:53

the floor frontline experience

22:55

kind of general, but

22:58

then you played him as

23:00

a shit grin in

23:02

Tory, which just adds a level

23:04

of darkness and fear. To

23:07

play in that way, you need to be physically

23:09

like, you need to be able to see that

23:11

this dude is dangerous. He's not

23:13

just a pencil approach or

23:15

anything because he presents at first as

23:17

quite just officious and that kind of

23:19

thing. I think those things are

23:22

key. It is key to have that combination to

23:24

get that character across. I think that

23:27

was one of the standout things

23:30

of the film for me. As horrible

23:32

as it was, it did have an

23:34

effect and land. Yeah. If

23:37

I look back now, I think I did do that

23:39

thing. If I look

23:41

back now, I wonder how I could

23:43

have... Not everything's fun, Pip.

23:45

I was going to say how I could have made it

23:47

more fun or better and all that. Not everything is supposed

23:50

to be fun and some things are

23:52

just hard and that's okay in this

23:55

Age that we live in where we

23:57

did have everything and we did have

23:59

happiness and everything should be equal. this

24:01

is a balance in this industry though

24:03

because there is the kind of miss

24:05

of needing to be like a struggling

24:07

are as to live on a tortured

24:09

are a small and have definitely been

24:11

on sex before way your life or

24:13

you're just making this uncomfortable for forever

24:15

When again I made any size is

24:17

find that balance of as you say

24:19

is one of your three. Two

24:22

ways he he he can't ruin it is

24:24

he says it's yet I you go make

24:26

sure there's something there. Any V is a

24:28

said we as often with creative things it's

24:31

the end result that's the bit as the.

24:33

That's. The joy the actual process of make

24:35

it might not be the joy but the

24:38

end result is but yeah it's balance Their

24:40

as said I died I do think there

24:42

was certainly period where he you'd hear these

24:44

people are a nightmare to work with a

24:46

wherever else bach what they create Iguana Time

24:49

is astounded. Yeah exactly as I sat in

24:51

hope and come from like. Coming

24:53

from London Mccoys the buddhist more sense on

24:55

it that that's. And. Are

24:58

same how lack the the way that

25:00

the kids and the dad's and the

25:02

managers talk. In. Football. It just

25:04

would not be acceptable anywhere else. It just

25:06

wouldn't be. Man is fucking. Psych,

25:08

you just be kicked out if he

25:10

spoke Lie that and I find it.

25:13

I think most people if they went

25:15

to football and fat how like some

25:17

of these managers who salad twelve year

25:19

olds you think like this is unacceptable

25:21

and the way to I see axes.

25:23

Sometimes on say even sometimes. and

25:25

some of the size and we've

25:28

mentioned already a find unacceptable in

25:30

a while find Unacceptable because. Men:

25:33

As cost. And

25:35

you should be. Of course you should be

25:37

a good at some be able to perform

25:39

a baseline. were all at work. Be glad.

25:41

The. polite, Say. Good morning You

25:44

ain't gotta be everyone's best friend

25:46

know but minimum be like kind

25:48

and nice and don't be one

25:50

of those accessed. it's a ticking

25:52

it so seriously that everyone has

25:55

to be around to it and

25:57

they have like crew members saying

25:59

i. Work on it anymore. Omelet with

26:01

this person because of their process and

26:03

that's unacceptable. This is someone's mom is

26:05

live in a kid to come to

26:08

work as a third a d and

26:10

because you're rude Seok was you're like

26:12

oh this is my process which I

26:14

believe is based on insecurity. Yeah most

26:16

of the time that poses I'm not

26:18

float not for everyone. I'd love to

26:20

watch that Daniel Day Lewis is obviously

26:22

to go to guy to eat and

26:24

like I've loved actually to see his

26:26

process and to see if I it's

26:28

disagree with it because. Not everyone is

26:31

the same and and yeah, I really, I

26:33

find that unacceptable man. So even when I

26:35

was that pretty miserable. On Rebel Moons.

26:37

Big smile for the crew. Because.

26:39

The crew. Is. That they were the ones

26:41

that got me through scan a science can say

26:44

love you just but I'm mentioning the crews

26:46

there is. The key thing is I can be

26:48

so. Underrated or or or

26:50

from the outside London think it's

26:52

true of when people say. The.

26:55

People that number lot one and number two

26:57

on the Co. She set the mood for

26:59

a show Cygnus as says the truth in

27:02

that would be beautiful things. Ninety percent of

27:04

the time it's been a beautiful thing for

27:06

me and that's inspired me. Any someone com

27:08

up an ecosystem right, this is how human

27:11

to do it. Passing massively the side id

27:13

the full Friday or all. These people are

27:15

of. Of a running things.

27:18

Back. Of Ice and wherever they're the ones

27:20

who set the scientists the nature of this

27:22

industries, You're going to get a four o'clock

27:25

pick up time and in things are gonna

27:27

go wrong and you know actually going to

27:29

be needed until midday. Oh. Ever

27:31

in his life is all these people

27:33

to make this doable a workable is

27:35

is not necessarily the pin high rate

27:37

of are many ways to cruz said

27:40

set the tone like I think of

27:42

i like make up our is and

27:44

cause he misses like after a while

27:46

Groomers, stunt doubles, Obviously. build

27:48

up a report when you have to sweetie personal

27:50

relationship with him this intimacy with and we see

27:52

them every day they become you'll see them every

27:54

day that their that the of though become friends

27:56

or family but they you know they are they

27:58

become a part of your life more often the

28:00

first and last person you said we're talking

28:02

hair and makeup and things like that. And

28:04

costume. There with you all the time. Physical

28:07

contact with him. There is intimacy in that

28:09

a mate of mine runs a charity called

28:12

haircuts for the homeless. And on

28:14

the basis it sounds Oh, that's nice to give

28:16

him homeless people haircuts. But he found

28:18

really quick. It's the intimacy bit

28:20

that they're starved of that no one's

28:22

touching them and engaging with them in

28:24

that guard down way

28:27

and that's hair and

28:29

makeup and every day for several months

28:31

if not several years. It's like

28:34

100%. So at the

28:36

beginning they'll always be very professional and they won't say anything.

28:38

Oh, if you think okay, how are you? Yeah, I'm good.

28:40

I'm good. And then after a while you'd be like, Oh,

28:42

what's up? And they'll be like, Oh man, I don't

28:44

want to say I've always been like, come on, you know, I mean,

28:46

getting sick and get into it. And if

28:48

I find out that like they're not being treated

28:51

properly by heads of department and

28:53

things like that will ruin my that will ruin

28:55

my shit. And that's why they don't say anything.

28:57

Right. But because we're close, you know, we're there

28:59

to say to open up to each other. And

29:02

it's like let the truth be known. The set

29:04

should be at a minimum, people

29:06

should be happy to people should be

29:08

or not unhappy to come

29:10

to work. People shouldn't be getting far creed

29:12

and you know, we should be being kind

29:14

to each other. So whether it's people

29:17

being pissed off with a

29:19

lack of etiquette from cast

29:22

members that are, you know, because

29:24

of their process or producers or

29:26

heads of department is unacceptable. Yeah,

29:28

it is an interesting because we're

29:31

getting kind of inside baseball here.

29:33

But I've had actors talk to

29:35

me about other actors that they've

29:37

felt aren't professional or whatever else

29:39

or producers maybe there's that and

29:42

I'll always take that with

29:44

a pinch of salt because there's egos involved.

29:47

Whenever I've heard from hair and makeup

29:49

about someone being a piece of shit

29:52

or being a dick or costume. I'll

29:54

say that a lot more seriously, because there's not the

29:56

egos of it. Like it's the real drawn

29:58

because again, as much as I do believe it from

30:00

other actors. You also know, well, I

30:02

don't know how you were on that day and

30:04

how that scene went and what happened. Have you

30:06

lost some lines? There's some ego there. Right.

30:11

All right. I'll take that on board. If I hear it more, cool.

30:13

But I hear it once off hair and

30:16

makeup and I'm like, all right. That person's

30:18

gone from my list. Yeah, they got big

30:20

crossnicks for their name, man. I just think

30:23

manners make it for the fucking person, man.

30:25

Do you know what I mean? I just

30:27

think it's like, it's so important and it's

30:29

so stressful again. I went halfway

30:31

across the globe to do that. Let's all be

30:34

nice to each other. Let's all speak politely and

30:36

kindly. I don't know. I also feel like if

30:39

I'm doing all that discipline psycho shit all

30:41

weekend and coming in and I'm like, if I

30:44

can do it, come on, man. Who you

30:46

other actors can do it like me, man? Come

30:48

on, man. Be polite. Come on.

30:50

But the bottom line is, again, I think

30:53

with empathy, I think that

30:55

if I think of one person in

30:58

particular, then I think it was

31:00

insecurity. And I think it was like,

31:03

things are hard. It is a

31:05

high pressure environment and we react differently to it.

31:07

And I think a lot of the people that

31:10

are being rude and making crew

31:12

members feel unhappy, they wouldn't

31:15

dream of doing that in their real life. Does

31:17

that make it okay? Not really, to be

31:19

honest. But does it

31:22

mean that I can forgive or

31:24

understand and empathize with them? Definitely. It's

31:26

both unacceptable

31:29

and understandable. It's a really high

31:31

pressure environment, man. I completely understand

31:35

what you're saying there. And I think that's one of

31:37

the key things in life. Me and our

31:40

mutual friend, Chris Glaston of

31:42

the High Collision Podcast, he's put forward

31:44

a question today. We're going to get

31:46

into it, man. Send image to you,

31:48

my love, man. As with Chris yesterday,

31:51

beautifully reminisced, he was talking about when

31:53

you invited him to come on set and

31:55

it's first time we come on a set. And he was

31:57

saying, I didn't know that time and you certainly didn't know

31:59

that was. It was a real rough time in his life

32:01

at that point. And that invitation came at the perfect point

32:03

to kind of motivate him and make him go,

32:06

oh, look at how things can be. And look at

32:08

how you were conducting, exactly

32:10

as we were talking about there, look at how

32:13

you were conducting yourself in this huge situation. So

32:15

yeah, there's a lot of love there, but we've talked

32:17

a lot about how I struggle with

32:20

the way the world can be now,

32:22

where it's kind of almost hate mobs

32:25

and condemning people because almost

32:28

every horrific act that's done, I

32:31

can see in some way how

32:33

if I made the wrong choices, I could

32:35

be there. I could do that. I could

32:37

end up in that place. And it's that

32:39

weird empathy that, because empathy is generally considered

32:41

a good thing, but it's that weird empathy

32:43

that people sometimes don't understand because someone

32:46

who's clearly bad will have done

32:48

something. And not that I'll be defending them, but I'll be like,

32:51

well, yeah, I think we like to, we're

32:53

in an era where we like to imagine monsters

32:56

and heroes. That is so binary. There's so much

32:58

in between there. Yeah, we're not talking about pedophiles

33:01

and rapists here. And if we're talking about it,

33:03

I don't really want that much gray area, to

33:05

be honest. We're talking

33:07

about something way

33:09

at the other end of the spectrum here.

33:11

So even my choice of language at the

33:14

beginning, unacceptable, even that, I mean that in

33:16

a kind of literary

33:20

sense, but I

33:23

understand. It's like my mate

33:25

Aubrey once said to me, when he's talking about

33:27

his misses, man, I always remember, I always think

33:30

about it. And he said, when he's

33:32

pissed off with his misses, he

33:34

just thinks, and he thinks, oh, what

33:36

a effing sighting or whatever. He says, you know

33:39

what, have I ever done that to

33:41

anyone else? And I tried it myself

33:44

and I was like, I almost never, I'm

33:46

not sure there's anything ever that I've thought, no,

33:48

I never do that. And I would never do that.

33:52

I've done that. I've done, you know, I'm not

33:54

being rude to people. But you know, like,

33:56

and I think we have to remember that.

33:58

I think you're right about being empathetic. But

34:00

does it mean that we should accept it?

34:02

Does it mean it's fair enough? Understanding isn't

34:04

simply acceptance. I

34:07

see how you go, hey, but... There's

34:10

a really interesting book I read called Monsters.

34:12

And it's what we do with the

34:14

stories of monstrous men. And

34:17

they're really interesting. Most

34:19

of the most profound conversations I have are

34:22

on the mass after Muay Thai. And

34:25

there's one of

34:27

my friends there called Rosie Price. Rosie, really

34:29

lovely lady. And I found out that

34:31

she's a novelist. And

34:34

I read her book, what read was,

34:36

it's amazing by the way. But we

34:39

would speak a lot about the creative

34:41

process and our completely different fields. And

34:43

how they were hit on the mats, all

34:45

red-faced and sweaty. I was talking about Noble

34:48

in Rebel Moon and saying, No,

34:50

I was talking about Herr Seidler, who was the

34:52

character I played in All of the Light We Cannot See.

34:55

And just saying how horrible it was for me

34:57

to play a Nazi and to have a swastika

35:00

on me. And

35:02

that my grandma and grandfather

35:05

were political refugees. The

35:07

only reason I'm born in London is because they

35:10

came here as refugees. And loads

35:12

of my family were killed by the Nazis. And

35:15

60 years later, I'm being

35:17

my usual Jovial self, kind to

35:19

everyone, swanning around in swastikas. Now,

35:23

do I justify that because I'm earning

35:25

money from my family? Is that enough

35:27

reason? Do I justify that because it's

35:29

been enough time? Does it

35:31

become some sort of, I'd sit on set having

35:34

these thoughts, is this cathartic

35:37

for me? Is this something that

35:39

my grandmother would have liked to say, you

35:41

know what, look at the life I had when I

35:43

was a kid and when I was a young person

35:46

growing up, when I was a young parent, I

35:48

wanted to create a better life for my kids.

35:51

And what she did is that for

35:53

my dad. And then my dad created a

35:55

great life for me, which

35:58

means that I can go off and play these things.

36:00

things frivolous or somewhat

36:02

frivolously play these characters.

36:04

Like what a luxury. Look how successful

36:06

her life and her son's

36:08

life has been that I can get and her

36:11

grandson's life to be doing that. None

36:13

of these really stick with me, Pip. None of

36:15

these actually stick. And then I

36:17

thought, well, do we need to tell these stories? And

36:20

I thought, well, we've had a lot of old ones,

36:22

except we've had a couple already. You

36:24

know, and it's familiar with

36:26

the Nazis. We're familiar with the

36:28

Nazis. Am I bringing anything new

36:31

to it? I think I brought something

36:33

interesting when you look at the

36:35

canon of Nazis on that show, I think, other

36:38

than being the only non-German Nazi.

36:41

Yeah, I really tried to bring something new on

36:43

something different to it. But I struggle,

36:45

I struggle with that, with that idea. And

36:47

it's like that's what I was talking to

36:49

Rosie about saying, like, what do we do

36:51

with these stories of monstrous men? And what

36:54

do I do when they want me to

36:56

keep playing these monstrous men? And

36:58

when I clearly can play these monstrous

37:01

men and I clearly enjoy

37:03

it to a point and

37:05

I'm clearly good at it. Yeah. So

37:08

what do we do? Like, I'm in this position

37:10

where it's like, hang on a minute. You guys

37:12

want to hire me for seven months to be

37:14

a space Nazi and like strangle women and punch

37:16

people. That's what I was going to say. Because

37:19

originally I was thinking, well, the difference

37:22

between that and your

37:24

character in Beale Street can talk

37:26

and Rebel Moon is

37:29

fiction. It's a fictional character. But

37:31

then what is the difference? You're

37:33

still portraying those same traits and

37:36

those same, as you say, you're essentially

37:38

a space Nazi. Yeah. I mean,

37:40

if Officer Bell from Beale Street was, you know,

37:42

came striding out of the spaceship, he would do

37:44

it completely differently. You know, it would have been.

37:46

He was a very different energy. And

37:48

there was a because of the great writing

37:51

of and back, all of the writing

37:54

outside of Barry screenplay that I had

37:56

from James Baldwin. Like, there was a

37:58

lot of interesting stuff. I could

38:00

do with Officer Bell where I could, I

38:03

think, somehow make him feel human. And

38:06

even though his role in the piece was to

38:08

be the antagonist, I was like, oh, you know,

38:10

I think there's interesting things I can do here.

38:12

And kind of this notion that like he doesn't

38:15

understand what he's doing. It's like, you

38:17

know, there's another scene that we shot

38:19

where I say to her, oh, do you want me

38:21

to help you with your bags? She's like looking at

38:23

me like you fucking monster. But I'm like, you know,

38:25

I'm like, you know, these people are racist. I've

38:28

got a black friend. It's like, do

38:30

you know, do you know, like,

38:32

yeah, you don't understand how institutionally

38:35

ignorant you are. And so without

38:37

digressing too much, I definitely think all

38:40

of the characters, all the antagonists I've

38:42

played have all of these different points.

38:45

But when you've got to spend seven

38:47

and a half months being one of them, I've never

38:49

spent that long being one of them before. Because

38:52

essentially we shot four fucking movies, didn't we? Part

38:54

one, part two, and then the R rated versions.

38:57

Seven hours worth of stuff.

38:59

I mean, it's like a whole season of TV.

39:04

It was such a long time

39:06

spending in that place. And by

39:08

coincidence, I played the fucking

39:11

Nazi two months before without knowing, you

39:13

know, which was great fun. Go

39:15

over Budapest, you know, work with Sean Levy

39:17

and, you know, do that. And one

39:20

of my favorite previous guests,

39:23

me and Sean did a podcast. It was so good. He

39:26

had no idea who I was, but he came

39:29

on to just do some press. And then we

39:31

got proper deep into it and

39:33

seeing him change from press junket show

39:35

them into, oh, we're having a conversation

39:37

about filming, about the art, about the

39:39

craft and all of this. Yeah. Yeah.

39:41

That must have been amazing to work

39:44

on. But then, yeah, and

39:46

it wasn't even to shoot in

39:48

Eastern Europe as well. You

39:50

know, that was like to shoot in places

39:53

that were, you know, directly affected by the Nazis. Well,

39:55

a lot of the crew would talk to me and

39:57

say they were Jewish and stuff. And we'd kind of

39:59

talk. about it. But coming back to

40:01

this book, Monsters, what do we do with the

40:03

stories of monstrous men? And it's a really interesting

40:06

book. I would recommend it. I won't try and

40:08

read the back of it to you of memory.

40:11

But it's something which

40:13

I certainly struggle with, especially because like

40:15

in real life, like I'm really preoccupied

40:17

with being the opposite of a monster.

40:20

And that's not me saying, look

40:22

guys, I don't want to always play the bad

40:24

guy. No, listen, I'm not saying

40:27

that. I'm just saying I spend my

40:29

whole life trying to find balance and

40:31

life, actively trying. Not just living out

40:34

life, normal. No, like

40:36

trying to be a

40:38

good person and trying to always be better

40:40

and trying to help and bring

40:43

people together. So to play these monsters, there's

40:45

a level of like Jungian shadow work to

40:47

it for sure, where you get

40:49

to like, you know, let it out there and

40:51

be, you know, explore the

40:53

shadows, man, explore the dark side. These are

40:55

my shadows in inside love

40:57

and in Noble and all that. You

41:00

know, as much as the Zaks that

41:03

he's, you know, written into the screenplay

41:05

and thought of, these are my

41:07

shadows. So there is something Jungian about

41:09

it, but the same time

41:12

is something that I find really, I

41:15

struggle with in a way that I find really

41:17

interesting, which would not be interesting if I didn't

41:19

enjoy it. I fucking

41:22

love it. And I'm

41:24

like, after like, wow,

41:26

14 years since my

41:28

first acting gig, 14 years

41:30

in the game, basically, I'm

41:33

like, I can say I'm good at it. You

41:35

know, I can say there's not many that can like, I'm

41:38

just trying to be as good as Stephen Graham doing

41:41

it, you know, the greatest to access in

41:43

the dark side, but also being a soldier

41:46

of the light in outside of

41:48

it, you know, he's definitely the greatest.

41:50

But yeah, something I do

41:53

kind of, I do struggle

41:55

with. And it's obviously more obvious when

41:57

there's a swastika involved and my family's

42:00

been killed and chucked in the Danube and I'm

42:02

aware of that. And my

42:04

life has changed, you know, because

42:06

of that, always already on a predetermined, you

42:08

know, my life was influenced so much before

42:11

I was even born by it, that I'm

42:13

aware of. But yeah, even just playing all

42:15

these monsters and stuff is like, it'd

42:17

be really interesting to sit around with like

42:19

Johnny Harris. I mean, you, these

42:22

are all guests of yours. Stephen, if

42:24

I need, did you do that Alan Rickman? No. Rest

42:27

in peace. The greatest antagonist ever.

42:29

Yeah. Who else we putting in

42:31

this debate conversation? I think

42:34

yeah, we've got Johnny and Stevie. Are

42:36

we bringing Joe Pesci in for this?

42:38

Yeah, it depends where we're going. But

42:41

I think it's, what do

42:43

we do with the stories of monstrous men

42:45

when we are good people? I'm

42:48

assuming Joe Pesci is a good person. Yeah,

42:50

you'd hope. But I think it's a

42:52

really, interesting debate,

42:55

which not everyone needs to come

42:57

to terms with, because not everyone ends up,

43:00

not everyone maybe can or ends

43:02

up playing them characters. I've

43:05

spoken a few times about doing

43:07

a kind of almost a broader

43:10

mental health conversation on on actors.

43:12

Because again, I know numerous people

43:14

have played against these evil

43:17

characters, these monsters,

43:19

and that's been as traumatic. You know,

43:22

if you're the Vicki McClure to

43:24

Johnny Harry, then how do you

43:26

how do you how do you process that and

43:28

take that on board? I've spoken

43:31

privately and I think on the podcast to

43:33

Niamh Algar about some of the places that

43:35

she's had to go to in these roles,

43:37

and then you're in your hotel room. And

43:40

we're done. And I think there's loads there

43:42

that weirdly, I've got a

43:46

script kind of that that's based around that.

43:48

But we just take for granted, oh,

43:50

they did that. How amazing. And don't think of,

43:53

well, I couldn't do that. Because well,

43:55

you could but you'd have to go

43:57

to somewhere really fucking dark. And could

43:59

you pull your they were of a

44:01

and from to come come back out

44:03

the other scientists yeah it's a fascinating

44:05

subject of it's what. as big as

44:08

good as say when you were talking

44:10

about balance and try and into things

44:12

is how do you find the in

44:14

an industry that isn't necessarily or hasn't

44:16

traditionally been super with us and I

44:18

think East is game but the about

44:20

I was chatting who is a chance

44:22

I was talking to them in Bumi

44:24

m we were talking about how. It

44:26

should almost be mandatory in certain

44:29

stories of sunsets. To have some

44:31

kind of offload. It's says therapy

44:33

on a day that there's these

44:35

did they speak season when he

44:37

was talking about how. It

44:40

should always be offered pricing like.

44:42

My. Mom or worse for this marriage this man

44:45

to free them at the end of every

44:47

shift during one of the other some errands

44:49

his the offload for that noise and they

44:51

say or what happened and they have Lotus

44:53

of the Not. I can only fixes every

44:55

shift for the and again I'm right. I'm

44:57

not saying have full therapy but I think

44:59

if you've got these huge and dramatic scenes

45:01

it would be quite easy site. Before you

45:03

go you each have to sit down and

45:05

just talk about how you see what make

45:07

sure you're not because again more often than

45:09

not we are away from our family and

45:11

their support. Network Zola these things

45:14

and you touched upon it you're out

45:16

with. Else to do is living the

45:18

dream in Hollywood. It might not be

45:20

easy to bring one of your boys

45:22

up and go. I'm struggling man years

45:24

I might be worth it in a

45:26

factory allegedly been a workaday this is

45:28

wrong with your guides on released struggling

45:30

a my nice apartment in Hollywood. Father's

45:32

yeah thanks Biggest oh this is not

45:34

a might not sweetheart not attend to

45:36

be just that sense of death and

45:38

I'm in my spurs. And yeah exactly

45:41

a look at it is I. might

45:43

not lines and yeah i definitely think they

45:45

could easily be some stuff i that burrow

45:47

seen again he wouldn't need to be on

45:49

every set and every scene and every story

45:51

but definitely think this is that could be

45:54

something there that would really help people know

45:56

i'm and up in a dark place for

45:58

with it we had it We had a

46:01

really, really, really sad situation

46:04

on Rebel Moon where one of the

46:06

people that worked in the,

46:09

ladies that worked in the stunt

46:11

department, it was on logistics, she

46:13

got in a car accident and she died

46:15

man, when we were like five months in

46:17

or something. And yeah, it was

46:20

so sad man, so sad, you know,

46:22

we're kind of making these silly movies and

46:24

even if the movies aren't

46:27

silly, it's silly movies for people to be

46:29

dying on. And they

46:31

offered therapy and

46:33

I thought, that's so good. And

46:35

I thought, why does someone have to die for you to

46:37

offer us therapy? I've asked myself,

46:41

I've needed therapy this whole time. I

46:44

do it myself anyway, so I was doing my own stuff,

46:46

but not everyone can, not everyone is

46:48

in that Riverman groove, but I thought,

46:50

wow, that's really interesting, that's really interesting and

46:52

I bet it's like protocols, which is a

46:54

really good thing that they do that now.

46:57

I said, it's allowed to be a great

46:59

thing and something that makes you go, all

47:01

right, why did it take this? Why

47:04

did it take this to

47:07

get this offered? Yeah, I think

47:09

it's why now I've graduated from

47:11

like young pup. I mean,

47:13

last time we were talking about

47:16

imposter syndrome a lot last time, weren't we? Yeah.

47:19

Well, I've graduated now. I ain't no imposter syndrome

47:21

in the room anymore. And

47:24

Rebel Moon, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm

47:26

an older actor now. The

47:30

youngest actors here are like, well,

47:33

Charlotte was 17, I'm 41. Like,

47:36

I'm more than old enough to be her pops. Then

47:38

you've got Skye, he's 21. I'm

47:41

definitely old enough to be his pops. I'm like

47:43

basically double his age. And

47:46

then even like some of the older actors, he's not a

47:48

35. Of

47:50

course, I got a gentleman who's like, he's got a couple

47:52

of years on me. Yeah, one of

47:55

the first people I worked with on one of the

47:57

first sets I've ever on and he was just a

47:59

sweetheart. I know exactly how he

48:01

was. You for human, use it as that he is.

48:03

I wonder. What? A lovely man. What

48:05

a sweet sweet song And bless chime

48:08

and and by M and then obviously

48:10

Tiny Hopkins is that. My. Favorite

48:12

of all time that he was an onset

48:14

by am in are easily shelter in the

48:16

Cosby ever have a now that wow this

48:18

is weird. I'm one of the older ones

48:21

that I've always wanted to let the Chris

48:23

when I started in the game I felt

48:25

like people didn't I didn't have a scooby

48:27

what was going on off so let our

48:29

my debts and it took basically of us

48:31

six years. Different kind of work out of

48:34

stock was going on and everyone's job swam.

48:36

what the hell's going on here Once in

48:38

his oldest in I would just couldn't understand

48:40

anything and a solar people. Didn't really tell

48:42

me stuff man and a fillip people in kind

48:44

of like put our mommy and can to help

48:47

me out. Man I'm a big deal So I

48:49

look like or like strong confident guy but like

48:51

papa didn't know and I really wish they did.

48:53

so I do that. Every so I'm

48:55

on now a proper. Take. That

48:57

role and of you know speak to them say listen

48:59

you're allowed to say no You allowed to do this

49:02

When Italy to do that let me too I do

49:04

and it's only to do that. He is seen as

49:06

you know and is always on with grace by say

49:08

it's. Not I will be Didn't have a thank

49:10

you very much. You know you have the to enshrine give

49:12

him. What? His stuff and it's like

49:15

seen these youngsters on the big movies that

49:17

rebel moon it was so trigger him for

49:19

me to sounds like ah man he to

49:21

protect the summer and this is like this

49:24

is the stuff that like this is mental

49:26

health Nightmares is a the so how would

49:28

have friends are like you're in Hollywood births

49:31

you over there but they are twenty one

49:33

do with twenty five twenty free. And.

49:35

they're in l a by themselves and allays

49:37

a strange place at the moment and what

49:39

is present there been made to train and

49:42

one of that like i did even though

49:44

i obviously needed to train that mile or

49:46

so they needed to do the same on

49:48

allows the they want us all of this

49:51

pressure net without the experience and everything i've

49:53

got so so sorry for them and not

49:55

even safe and i'm a proper solar they

49:57

needed more support of back to his there

50:01

I think for all actors

50:03

under 25, it would be brilliant

50:05

to be able to offer, to be able to

50:07

have kind of like a mandatory checking in system.

50:10

And like, I urge you brother, as

50:12

a budding filmmaker and same

50:14

with me, when I do my first feature

50:16

and all that, it's to create that environment,

50:18

I think we will. But to be actually,

50:20

I know it's in your nature and

50:22

it's in my nature, but that doesn't mean that you'll

50:24

have time to think about it. Because you won't, because

50:27

you'll have a million questions to answer and you'll be

50:29

very preoccupied with the fact you've got to get all

50:31

this and your shot list and you'll be geeking out

50:33

of your cinematographer and you might not think about your 25 year

50:35

old. And

50:37

they really need protecting because like

50:39

my training, we trained for decades. These

50:42

youngsters look at a movie like Rebel Moon, I think that's

50:44

the end of it. Like, wow, Rebel Moon, no, when I

50:46

do Rebel Moon, I think, well, yeah, this is just one

50:49

of the next and one of the last. And

50:51

even when they say, oh, it's this, it's that,

50:54

just relax, man. I've been part of big movies

50:56

before that was supposed to do

50:58

this and it doesn't always get

51:00

just relax. Let's just enjoy the ride

51:02

and we'll see. Billy Bragg talked to me about

51:04

this was one of the biggest problems he sees

51:07

with people coming up is they

51:09

achieve their dream and

51:11

then it just isn't what they'd hoped or expected.

51:13

And he's lucky he achieved his dream and it

51:15

was everything he wanted it to be and he

51:17

continued there. But there's so much of that,

51:19

you get that big gig and you're like, well, this is it now.

51:22

But again, we've brought up Steven Graham numerous times.

51:24

I'm going to bring him up again. Oh,

51:26

as many times as possible, please. Him telling me about

51:28

after this is England, him not getting him not booking

51:30

a gig for 18 months. It's

51:33

like that's helped him and Sophia also

51:35

in in Rebel Moon and the two

51:37

people who had similar stories like that.

51:39

And it was such they

51:42

were unaware, but it helped me so much in

51:44

points of my career already because I'll have these

51:46

gaps and I'll be like, well, when they said

51:49

that you were 15 months into the 80 month

51:51

run or whatever. Oh, that's exactly. Well, I know

51:53

Stevie ain't shit. I know Sophia ain't shit. So

51:56

I'm not getting booked because I'm shit. I'm

51:58

not not getting bookings if you know what I mean. Because

52:00

I'm shit, it's because of that's how this thing goes. But

52:02

I was grinning throughout

52:05

you talking of realizing that

52:07

you're in a guidance role now

52:09

as you're one of the elders on set. Because

52:12

I kind of had a fast forwarded version of

52:14

that because of Steven Graham.

52:17

So Taboo was my third ever acting

52:19

gig. And on day one, he proper

52:21

took me under his wing. And we

52:23

were the only two members of Atticus's gang. So

52:25

I say that because I'm his right hand man,

52:28

had these scenes with Hardy and all this. And

52:31

he's like, stand here. Because if you're in

52:33

the background of my close up, then even

52:35

if you've not got lines, it will establish

52:38

you as a current. The more everyone thinks

52:40

about the lines you've got, it's not as

52:42

he's like, I guarantee you go through so

52:44

many TV shows

52:46

that you think a character, you know, this

52:48

character, but they didn't actually say that much. They're just there

52:50

a lot on all this. And

52:53

then there's other points where he's giving guidance. And

52:55

then three days in, they had three new members

52:57

of our gang. And he came up to me

52:59

one point, he's like, do you see

53:01

what you just did? I was like, what is that? Those

53:03

three didn't really know what to do or where to

53:05

stand. And you kind of advised them and

53:07

told them because we're like, in this scene,

53:10

we're not important enough to be hassling the

53:12

director and asking what he wants

53:14

from us because it doesn't matter. It focuses on this.

53:17

So I was like, yeah, if we just if you'd like to

53:19

start clearing up that bit, and we do that is like, that's

53:21

what I was doing to you three days

53:23

ago. And you're now again, on a far lower level.

53:26

And it was a beautiful thing to

53:28

have highlighted because it was that natural thing because even

53:31

within that amount of time, I was like, right, I

53:33

know that those level of characters we can't be going

53:35

up and go, so what do you want? You know,

53:38

what are you thinking? What's my intent in this particular

53:40

thing? And it's like, right now we need to just

53:42

play it. Just play it out. Do you think there's

53:44

a part of it with you? Because

53:47

when I I'm very aware, there's

53:49

a part with me that recognizes

53:51

their insecurity. Yeah, yeah. And

53:53

even I don't feel it no more.

53:55

I know I remember how it feels

53:57

and seeing them and even projects. younger

54:00

insecurity onto them back. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

54:02

yeah, 100% of them, that

54:05

they very well might not have needed any

54:07

advice or tips, but because of that you're

54:09

like, in this instance, that was me like

54:11

three days ago, who's like the first big

54:13

set I've been on, I'm kind of nervous.

54:16

And yeah. That actually looked fun

54:18

though, I love those period sets.

54:20

Yeah, yeah, look, we could

54:22

find Liverpool, Manchester. No, it was all

54:25

London and Essex. Oh, it's at the docks

54:27

in Tilbury, which is where Chris kids. Yeah,

54:29

yeah. Well, that's it. It's up the road

54:32

from us. We've done

54:34

a few days in London and we got this email. It

54:36

was kind of like, the next week, it's a bit out

54:38

of the way. Yeah, yeah, for a long time. I'm like,

54:40

I can walk there. As

54:42

you really need to give me a trailer, I can just get dressed in

54:44

my room and come over. But there's

54:48

so much I want to talk about and we're

54:50

going to run out of time. But before

54:52

we wrap up on rebel moon, me

54:55

and Chris were talking about it and Chris

54:57

was saying how he felt. Yeah,

55:00

yeah. He felt that your character, it

55:02

felt like almost it was an audition

55:04

to be in the

55:06

Warhammer universe. He's a massive Warhammer nerd. He

55:09

feels it's going to be the next Marvel

55:11

and things like that. Because there's so many

55:13

stories in that world. There's so many things

55:15

and Henry Cavill is now is leading that

55:17

kind of he's bringing it all to screen.

55:19

There's long process and

55:21

development. And yeah, he was kind of asking

55:23

if you're aware of any of that, because he felt the way

55:25

you played that it was so it fit

55:28

that Warhammer universe so well. And in

55:30

his mind, he was like, Ed

55:32

might not know, but I guarantee

55:35

in his future is something in

55:37

this huge, a big universe. And

55:39

it's so interesting. I completely see it. Like, whenever I talked to

55:41

him about it, I'm a little bit of a nerd in that

55:43

world, but not his depth. And it

55:45

is, it's as rich and deep as kind

55:48

of your Marvel universe and all that. But

55:50

it's already got all this established lore and

55:53

I haven't got a fucking clue. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's

55:55

it. I don't know if you're even aware of it.

55:57

I always when I was a kid, wanted to get

55:59

into it. to it and never did. Definitely

56:02

didn't have the patience for doing a little

56:04

intricate painting. But no, I didn't know. But

56:07

like training, every

56:09

single job is an audition for 10

56:11

years time. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So

56:13

that was an audition for everyone, for

56:15

the world. And also just to show

56:17

like, you know, I'm getting better, and

56:19

I'm learning, you know what I mean?

56:21

That's what that was. So definitely this

56:24

Warhammer thing. Yeah, 100%. I'd

56:26

love to. Yeah, I think it's cool. Yeah. Well,

56:28

there's more I wanted to talk about on

56:30

Rebel Moon, but I don't want us to run out of

56:33

time. And again,

56:36

probably, I was gonna say a couple of years ago,

56:38

but probably four or five years ago, we bumped into

56:40

each other outside, there's

56:42

Hamilton's casting, cast offs. And

56:44

we had a quick catch up. You were coming

56:46

out, I was heading in at a coffee shop

56:48

across the world, didn't it? Yeah. But nougos. We

56:50

had a little bit. Yeah, we had a little

56:52

bit time for a catch up. And I remember

56:54

you talking then about wanting to do more stuff

56:56

that your kids, your kids could want. And not

56:58

just doing kind of angry grown up stuff

57:00

that maybe might appeal to you more,

57:02

but more stuff that the less money

57:04

your kids want. Yeah, less money. Exactly.

57:06

That all family friendly monsters like Monsters

57:08

Inc. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The right monsters,

57:10

but Mike Pukoska, where is the Yeah,

57:12

that'd be gold. But I remember

57:15

sitting down to what I used to be famous

57:17

debut from from Eddie Sternberg. Yeah. And I

57:20

was watching it because you're in it, mate.

57:22

And it's on Netflix. And I was like,

57:24

this probably ain't gonna be my kind of

57:26

thing. And it warmed my

57:28

heart so much. I genuinely found it

57:30

beautiful. I found it so

57:33

watchable and believable, even though it is

57:35

kind of so uplifting and

57:38

positive. I guess number one,

57:40

how was that to work on? And number two,

57:42

is that part of your kind of do you

57:44

look at roles and go, I want to do

57:46

one that will inspire my boy, you know, and

57:48

things like that. And my

57:50

kids can watch and go, I asked my

57:52

dad, definitely, I want to, you know, definitely, I

57:55

want to I know if I did, if

57:57

I do to even like two roles that are like

58:00

good for my kids then I'm like, all right, let me play

58:02

a monster. But preferably not

58:04

for seven, eight months. We're back to balance.

58:06

We're back to balance. Definitely. And it's part

58:08

of me. It's like the Jungian shit is there.

58:10

The shadows are there, so let me explore

58:12

them. I used to be famous,

58:14

man. I keep saying to my

58:16

agent, like, I just want to not

58:19

remove it. I used to be famous. You know, when

58:21

I spoke to Eddie, so... Because I had the monster

58:23

in there as well. Not

58:25

Montpasse, but your character wasn't the nicest

58:27

guy at a point. Yeah,

58:29

he wasn't just some

58:31

angel. That's true. Exactly. But I

58:33

was signed on to another movie. I was

58:35

signed on to, okay. I was

58:38

signed on to another movie that was really interesting to

58:40

work with a couple of actors that I found really

58:42

interesting. That wasn't... I

58:44

wasn't in head over heels with the

58:47

actual character. So I was kind of

58:49

like... When I used to be famous, came in, I was like, oh,

58:51

I know if I won't be able to do the two of them. When

58:54

I went to meet Eddie and Khali, the

58:56

producer, like, there are

58:58

some meetings I'll never forget. Ever, ever, ever, ever.

59:01

And that was one of them. It was just

59:04

amazing. I just loved how they described it

59:06

to me. You know, when I

59:09

spoke to them, I'd had a conversation with Cepa just before

59:11

that saying, like, I want to do stuff in

59:13

my own accent. I don't always... Why

59:16

do I always have to play posh people? Or why

59:18

do I have to just be cockney? Or why do

59:20

I have to be this and that? Why can't I

59:22

just speak like myself and my friends? I don't speak

59:24

different from the rest of the community. Everyone speaks like

59:26

me. In fact, everyone will

59:28

have pretty much what colour skin they've got, what

59:30

age they are, what gender they are, what sexuality

59:33

they are. We

59:35

just talk like this, right? Why can't

59:37

I represent my community? Why can't I be... Why

59:40

can't we do that? Anyway, and

59:42

Eddie was like some fucking fairy

59:45

godfather, was like, Ed, I want you

59:47

to... There were a message that

59:49

I listened to that podcast I'd done with

59:51

Cepa. He said, I want you to do

59:53

that. I want you to speak in your

59:55

own accent. And I was like, oh my

59:57

god, listen to this guy, I like fuck.

1:00:00

He's a match made in heaven, man. And

1:00:02

we just geeked out, man. And from what we

1:00:04

call the zoom digressions, because we'd get on zooms

1:00:07

to talk about the character in the script. And

1:00:09

we did about 10 zooms. It'd be like, what

1:00:11

would it be like with me and you? It'd

1:00:13

be a nightmare. 10 zooms,

1:00:15

and we were like 50 pages in. We were

1:00:17

like, we need to stop digressing, man. We're having

1:00:19

too much fun and just talking about rea- you

1:00:21

know, just too much. And so anyway,

1:00:24

when we shot that, it was such

1:00:26

a beautiful experience to shoot in London

1:00:29

and to leave the other

1:00:31

projects behind, even though

1:00:33

it was like the least important thing to

1:00:36

me is money, but it's three times as

1:00:38

much money. It was like significant, like very

1:00:40

significant things. It would have been the most

1:00:42

amount of money I'd ever earned in my life if

1:00:44

I'd have done the other one. But it's like, I did that.

1:00:47

I don't want to do that. I want to do this. Not

1:00:49

even did that respect to the project. But like, this

1:00:51

is amazing. This is like my heart. And I just then

1:00:54

straight- and like when we were in the meeting, Eddie said

1:00:56

to me, yeah, you can sing, right? And I was like,

1:00:58

yeah, man. I mean, listen, if I can learn martial arts

1:01:00

from movies, I can learn to sing, right? If

1:01:02

I can speak Louisiana, you know, street

1:01:05

Louisiana for Mona Lisa and

1:01:07

the Blood Moon, I can learn this, innit? Fuck,

1:01:10

that was so scary and so hard. And

1:01:12

learning the piano, man. It was

1:01:14

so hard. And not even learning grade, whatever. It

1:01:17

was learning just the songs, just the riffs that

1:01:19

I had to do. So straight

1:01:21

into like vocal coaching and the

1:01:23

piano stuff. And it was really scary, man.

1:01:26

It was really hard. And

1:01:28

like, God, that was terrible at first. But I

1:01:30

knew I'd get it. I've got like a confidence

1:01:32

in my process now that like, even when it's

1:01:34

terrible halfway through, I'm like, I

1:01:36

know I can get it. I just got

1:01:38

to work it out. And it just wasn't

1:01:41

working, wasn't working. We even went to the

1:01:43

church studio in Crouch End. Who owns that?

1:01:45

Someone brilliant, innit? Yeah, I'm not sure. Someone

1:01:47

big. And amazing, big, like

1:01:49

huge studios in there. Like, you know,

1:01:51

and from my music days, it was

1:01:53

like bedroom studios and underground studios and

1:01:55

fucking estates and people's

1:01:58

basements in there. This was like, what? I look

1:02:00

at this and I'm singing in there. So

1:02:02

we went in there, recorded the first recording

1:02:04

session with London Grandma who wrote all the

1:02:07

songs. I just came

1:02:09

out and I was like, we hadn't even

1:02:11

shot a day and I was like, this doesn't

1:02:13

feel right. I'm singing this character and I don't

1:02:15

even know the character is yet. I

1:02:17

know roughly what it is, but I don't

1:02:19

know Vince's voice. So how can I do

1:02:22

these songs? So we found

1:02:24

this other guy, this other vocal

1:02:27

coach Joshua, and this guy

1:02:29

is a proper peaceful

1:02:32

warrior, amazing soul. He

1:02:34

works with Ray who just

1:02:36

won the seven Brits. Right. Yeah. It

1:02:38

doesn't surprise me. When he told me that, I said, yeah,

1:02:40

of course you have. Yeah. Of course

1:02:42

the underground artist or the person that got dropped from a

1:02:45

label that you were working with in isolation

1:02:47

when everyone had given up on them, of course

1:02:49

you made it brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's the

1:02:51

most amazing man and he just unlocked me man.

1:02:53

He unlocked my singing, he unlocked everything. So all

1:02:56

the songs when I recorded them, when we went

1:02:58

back in, he would be standing in the booth

1:03:00

with me, conducting me like an orchestra. Really? Yeah.

1:03:02

Actually, he was my crutch. I needed him there

1:03:04

and I was so proud of him. So proud

1:03:07

of him and so proud of Leo

1:03:09

Long who just

1:03:12

did the most amazing job. It's obviously

1:03:14

like a buddy movie, two people really.

1:03:16

So signing on to it is also a bit

1:03:18

like all manners. It was like right back with non

1:03:20

actors. Obviously, he's neurodiverse

1:03:22

as well, but to be honest,

1:03:24

I don't think that really makes it, changes it that

1:03:27

much and non actors are non actor whether you're neurodiverse

1:03:29

or not. It was just amazing man

1:03:31

and he was just like, he was wicked man.

1:03:33

Everything that you see on screen

1:03:35

like his energy is amazing man.

1:03:37

His mum, dad and his dog,

1:03:40

Cashel, who's always floating about and that.

1:03:42

They were just like, it was just

1:03:44

the most beautiful thing man. Eddie created

1:03:46

an amazing vibe on set. Just

1:03:49

like you said, I knew from the beginning when I signed

1:03:51

on to that, I'm like, right, this is, and I'm going

1:03:53

to show Leo how you lead a set as well. This

1:03:55

man is in grace and kindness and open

1:03:57

heart, but also seriousness and proficiency.

1:04:00

professionalism and It

1:04:02

was so it was such a beautiful project

1:04:04

man to be honest if people if I

1:04:06

had to say like what is my favorite

1:04:09

Film I'd ever worked on it's probably that's probably

1:04:11

my most enjoyable For me experience.

1:04:13

It'll manage it just always the one I

1:04:15

say just because yeah heart feet heartstrings But

1:04:19

I used to be famous was just amazing and I

1:04:21

was really and every movie is a gamble in it

1:04:23

So when I read the screenplay as you can imagine

1:04:25

I was like how the fuck are we gonna pull

1:04:27

this off? Yeah, and even the

1:04:29

last act I was like is this gonna

1:04:31

work that last scene? Yeah in the square.

1:04:34

I was like, this is a bit like

1:04:36

say fantastical Like how does this how do

1:04:38

we do this and I was so happy

1:04:40

with the tone of how we did it

1:04:43

and I completely It could easily have been

1:04:45

cheesy or saccharine or wherever else but it

1:04:47

didn't I didn't feel that at all It

1:04:49

felt like this. Yeah, just

1:04:51

beautiful real story And yeah, and that comes

1:04:53

across as well the joy it was to

1:04:56

be on set if there is ever a set where

1:04:58

you're gonna be Up for going

1:05:00

out for for cast and crew meal It

1:05:03

feels like it's that one The

1:05:06

only time I'd ever say it's ready like

1:05:08

now I'm gonna I'm gonna work on stuff

1:05:10

in my room It feels like that's the

1:05:12

set that you'll be like, I'll be

1:05:14

down in five. I'm My

1:05:16

wife, but the thing is we were in London

1:05:18

weren't we do like I was he just if

1:05:21

that was great thing is I could go Home,

1:05:23

we're shooting in Peckham. So I'm on

1:05:25

the high road and I'm wearing normal clothes

1:05:27

I've got like muddy white Adidas

1:05:30

high tops and you know

1:05:32

I'm carrying around my iron board with the

1:05:34

keyboard on it and all that We're a lot

1:05:36

of time shooting with the long lens people aren't batting

1:05:38

an eyelid I'm just you know doing all this stuff

1:05:40

on the high road and then even

1:05:42

when we were shooting on the high road It's just

1:05:44

it's what I love about shooting in London is people

1:05:47

are just sort of out of the way and they

1:05:49

carry on moving There's not a big who-hoor about it,

1:05:51

but we would wrap at lunch and

1:05:53

I'd be like, you know What I'm just gonna go and get

1:05:55

some hard food from up there. I'll meet

1:05:57

you back there Alan. We got all right, sweet And

1:06:00

so it was such a luxury to

1:06:02

just walk the other way from the

1:06:04

runners in the first and second and first and go, I'm

1:06:06

just got there, go and have a chat with the women

1:06:08

in the West Indian, get my

1:06:10

hard food and stewed chicken or whatever, and

1:06:14

have that four minute walk back

1:06:17

to space by myself, come

1:06:19

back, security guards from London and all that

1:06:21

as well, and just come sit down, whoever's

1:06:24

there, just eat the food communally and then

1:06:26

go back on set and live this London

1:06:28

life and breathe this London life is

1:06:31

something which I really want to tell more

1:06:33

London stories and be a part of more

1:06:35

London stories, but they just got to be

1:06:37

writing it. And it's even more complicated because

1:06:39

being a proper Londoner and understanding it, it

1:06:42

means that if you said, if you show

1:06:44

me 10 inverted commas London

1:06:46

scripts, I'll probably have a problem with seven

1:06:48

of them. Yeah. Yeah.

1:06:50

So you know, there's not going to

1:06:53

be that I won't be able to take, I won't

1:06:55

be taking that much stuff in London,

1:06:57

but yeah, I love it. So when it's

1:06:59

right, it's right. Tell me, tell me you

1:07:01

had screenings of it at the Peck and

1:07:04

Plex. I was, they did. Yeah. I was

1:07:06

in LA and I already, deep

1:07:08

under water. Yeah. I

1:07:10

couldn't do any press. That's rubbish. Oh

1:07:12

yeah. I couldn't even go to

1:07:14

the cast and crew. Yeah. I

1:07:16

couldn't go to any screenings and I understand

1:07:19

that. Yeah. I really understand that. And when

1:07:21

I would have liked to have, but

1:07:23

I'll tell the truth, that's not my

1:07:25

part of it. Yeah. Like it is

1:07:27

a relay race and I run the

1:07:30

race before that. Yeah. You know, I

1:07:32

run the second leg essentially. Yeah. Pre-production

1:07:34

is the first one. They pass it

1:07:36

to me and I shift. Yeah. I

1:07:38

shift and I give it everything and

1:07:40

you know, then I collapse and pass it

1:07:42

to post-production and they run on. And

1:07:44

then the fourth one is they just pass it

1:07:46

onto the public and the public say, that's

1:07:48

an odus shi'o. That's the best thing I've ever seen.

1:07:50

Yeah. And none of those

1:07:52

stages are mine. Yeah. And it gets further and

1:07:55

further away from me and I'm just there on

1:07:57

the other side of the 400 meter track. dealing

1:08:00

with my fatigue and

1:08:03

all of that. Just

1:08:05

hoping that I got my change opens,

1:08:07

and I ran the fastest I could,

1:08:09

and it's not mine after that. So

1:08:12

in some ways, for most movies, I'm

1:08:14

actually quite relieved. Yeah. When

1:08:16

I'm like, oh no, I'm shooting, I can't do it.

1:08:18

That one though is different because I wanted to sing from the

1:08:21

rooftops. It was pretty amazing how it

1:08:23

was received, man. It was like all

1:08:25

over the world and the numbers it

1:08:27

did was amazing. In America, it was

1:08:30

number one and all this stuff. It

1:08:32

was really quite amazing. It's

1:08:35

the beauty of streaming. Again,

1:08:37

there's definitely pros and cons. As

1:08:39

I said, I remember because

1:08:42

Ryan Lane was coming out on Disney

1:08:44

Plus, I remember I watched that on Disney Plus, and

1:08:47

then I was heartbroken. I had bothered to get down

1:08:49

and watch it either at the Pecoplex or at one

1:08:51

of these spots because it was so good and it

1:08:53

felt so true London and things

1:08:55

like that. It makes me lazy, but as I

1:08:57

said, it gets things out there and

1:09:00

spreads them about. It's crazy

1:09:02

for me because I used to be

1:09:04

famous. All of the like we

1:09:06

cannot see Netflix, both of them Netflix. Rebel

1:09:08

Moon, four movies on Rebel

1:09:10

Moon. Then I did, this

1:09:13

year did an episode of Love, Death and

1:09:15

Robots, which is fucking exciting,

1:09:17

in my own accent, on my head.

1:09:19

Amazing. And actually not hammed it up

1:09:21

because I don't know how you ham

1:09:23

up this actually. I kind

1:09:26

of pushed it with like, oh

1:09:28

really? America. You're letting

1:09:30

me, okay. Let's do it. I

1:09:32

actively went in there thinking, let

1:09:35

me see how much I can say stuff

1:09:37

that is so localized and kind of hard

1:09:39

to distinguish, but it's like, it's how we

1:09:42

say it. But all of them

1:09:44

are Netflix. I've done all my

1:09:46

projects, I've been Netflix for a couple of years and

1:09:49

I sleep for a good

1:09:51

or a bad thing. Like you say, there's

1:09:53

this positive and negative. It's

1:09:55

amazing that these projects can be

1:09:57

so accessible to people and it's been really interesting.

1:10:00

in watching the way that they wheeled

1:10:02

them out. And they have got a

1:10:04

very different strategy to how they

1:10:06

do things. Sometimes they'll just put them out

1:10:08

and sometimes they'll give it a big who

1:10:11

or who are, like it's a studio movie.

1:10:13

So it is interesting. I wonder

1:10:15

if I'll ever work for anyone ever

1:10:17

again. Yeah, yeah. Feels like one of

1:10:19

them old school Hollywood contracts where they've

1:10:21

got me. You locked in there. Locked

1:10:23

in to one studio. Not bad. Well,

1:10:26

I mean, we're gonna have to wrap

1:10:28

things up relatively soon. I think

1:10:30

we're gonna have to just do a whole nother episode

1:10:33

on directing, because writing and

1:10:35

directing is a big part. Speaking

1:10:37

of London, like a little river

1:10:39

run is a love

1:10:41

letter to London. So I guess we'll touch upon

1:10:43

that briefly. Where are you

1:10:46

with that with writing and directing and

1:10:48

that part of your creative process?

1:10:50

Because I think these things can

1:10:52

be tough because it is always a, as

1:10:54

you say, your creative dial has got a

1:10:57

limit on it still. So

1:10:59

if that is taken up by several

1:11:01

months in LA and doing these different

1:11:03

things, then you're not gonna get

1:11:05

the time or be in the headspace to

1:11:08

be in the writing and directing mode. But

1:11:10

what's your goal there and your outlook at

1:11:12

the moment? It's something that I

1:11:15

know is inevitable. There's

1:11:17

no two ways about it, but I'm very patient

1:11:19

with. I don't feel like I need to

1:11:21

rush and push things. Writing-wise,

1:11:26

writing all the skits and the kind

1:11:28

of short film that we wrote for

1:11:31

the Cass album, Famous

1:11:33

Last Words, that was a short

1:11:35

that I was working on and developing that

1:11:38

just kind of became something else,

1:11:40

became just an audio short that

1:11:42

just fitted perfectly for the piece,

1:11:44

as an atmospheric piece.

1:11:47

And I'm interested in that notion as well,

1:11:49

that the writing and the directing,

1:11:51

it kind of starts as

1:11:53

a seed that just kind of needs to be

1:11:56

planted. Like, it's interesting that it can turn into

1:11:58

different things. And in some ways, so... the

1:12:00

kind of conceptual side of acting

1:12:02

as well. But without

1:12:04

being my usual thousand words

1:12:06

for just fucking answer the question, you idiot.

1:12:09

Um... I'm waiting for the

1:12:11

right story for the future. Yeah. There

1:12:13

is a novel which was

1:12:16

the first time I was like, this is it, I

1:12:18

found it. And so I've been speaking

1:12:21

to people... Yeah, I won't say

1:12:23

any more about that, but I'm trying to do

1:12:25

the business to see where things are. Again,

1:12:29

just like with a run, I'm

1:12:31

preoccupied with London stories. I'm

1:12:34

preoccupied with the pressures and

1:12:36

the emotions underneath all the

1:12:39

nameless, faceless individuals that

1:12:41

walk past us every day

1:12:43

in London and that we coexist next to,

1:12:46

and the inner feelings

1:12:49

and inside of them underneath

1:12:51

the surface of these clear kind of

1:12:54

like stereotypes and boxes

1:12:57

that we will just so easily put people

1:12:59

in in London and how London can

1:13:01

be represented. So, yeah.

1:13:05

We'll see about the thing that I

1:13:07

would like to develop, because that's not

1:13:09

my choice. So the world will have

1:13:11

to get on board with that. But

1:13:14

we'll see. We'll see. I

1:13:17

always have these ideas about a kind

1:13:19

of alumni of a generation of us

1:13:22

all wanting to tell stories about

1:13:24

our generation and different sides of

1:13:26

it, of its northeast, Essex, wherever

1:13:28

it is, it's like whether you're

1:13:30

35 or 45. I

1:13:32

feel like there's so many

1:13:34

of us that are

1:13:37

trying to do things by ourselves and banging our heads

1:13:39

against brick wall and trying to do this and trying

1:13:41

to hustle stuff, and it's so hard to

1:13:43

do it by yourself. And so

1:13:45

many of us, like I know I'm

1:13:48

willing to contribute and help people and

1:13:50

uplift people and where we can, but

1:13:52

it's like we're so isolated, especially when

1:13:55

we're developing films. Yeah. I

1:13:57

constantly have this idea and speak to people about

1:13:59

it. I know about this. It's

1:14:03

a mad one. It could be

1:14:05

such a behind closed doors journey.

1:14:07

There could be so much

1:14:09

of that journey done in complete

1:14:12

isolation and that's weird. It is

1:14:14

weird, but it's also not always

1:14:16

the best place for decision making.

1:14:19

And you get despondent.

1:14:22

And then when you get those

1:14:24

disappointments, it can so easily

1:14:26

just go, ah, because there's no one pushing

1:14:28

it except you. It's hard. So I don't

1:14:31

know. I don't know how this alumni

1:14:34

works or this union works,

1:14:36

but I'd love to

1:14:38

see a new generation of London filmmakers. I'd

1:14:40

love to see more London stories that

1:14:43

are actually represent my,

1:14:45

I don't just mean London, you know, actually

1:14:47

do I? Because I'd be as

1:14:49

interested in seeing something from fucking Exeter or

1:14:52

fucking Sunderland. Yeah. Funny.

1:14:55

Yeah. I can

1:14:57

see that happening with Phil, Phil

1:15:00

Barrentini and Steven Graham

1:15:03

and Hannah Graham with what they're doing with made

1:15:06

up productions and, and, and we're matriarch

1:15:08

of going, that's exactly, it's exactly what

1:15:10

you're saying, except it's Liverpool. It's going,

1:15:12

right. We want to make these stories

1:15:14

happen and bring these things through. And

1:15:16

it's purely a load of

1:15:18

people coming together who care about

1:15:20

it and want to tell it. And yeah,

1:15:23

and the more of that happening, the better.

1:15:25

And people in a position of power and

1:15:27

means doing that, you know, instead

1:15:29

of just going, I'm like, should we buy

1:15:31

a house in Spain? I

1:15:34

always shout my, my guy, Gus Khan, cause

1:15:36

I think what he did on man like

1:15:38

Moby and the way he involved the community

1:15:40

and he made sure the set

1:15:43

was on point and it in every area. And that

1:15:45

was like, that wasn't even a man in position power.

1:15:48

That was a man who got his first opportunity and

1:15:50

went, I might not get another. So

1:15:53

while I'm here now, I'm going to focus on my

1:15:56

community, my people and get, make

1:15:58

this as, as. as positive a

1:16:00

thing as possible. And the more that

1:16:03

the better. This has already been like

1:16:05

a Stephen Graham appreciation post. But I'd

1:16:07

like to add guys kind into that.

1:16:09

As someone I've never met, like

1:16:11

what a, the way he

1:16:13

talks about his family, the way he talks about his

1:16:15

community, I truly

1:16:19

respect and agree with his morals. And aside

1:16:21

from that, he's really good at his job.

1:16:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel

1:16:25

like, again, like what I was saying at

1:16:27

the beginning about actors and being unacceptable, being

1:16:29

rude to the crew and stuff, is just

1:16:31

like, there's two sides to this, man. You

1:16:33

can be good at your job, but like

1:16:35

be a good person as well, man. Yeah,

1:16:37

yeah. Serve those around you and be kind.

1:16:40

And it doesn't mean like he's

1:16:42

navigated it, that his career has been able

1:16:44

to take off without dissipating his energy and

1:16:46

such. Same with me. Yeah.

1:16:48

And it seems Stephen as well. And it's

1:16:50

just like, I feel like, yeah,

1:16:53

people like Gus and Stephen, they're

1:16:56

really inspirational. Yeah, and Gus, me

1:16:58

and Gus have never been able to articulate

1:17:01

in a way that's particularly helpful, but I

1:17:03

think has always been, you

1:17:06

can tell quite quickly who's real. And

1:17:08

it's just that term real, is

1:17:10

all he bases most of his things off. It's what

1:17:12

we connected on, because we're like, no,

1:17:14

he can tell who's real on this set. Absolutely.

1:17:16

Like there's certain people that haven't ended up in

1:17:19

contact still and things like that, but it's like,

1:17:21

no, you know, yeah. Well, you

1:17:23

can handle quite quickly, but I always say

1:17:26

to myself every time,

1:17:28

and sometimes out loud, let's

1:17:30

see how quickly they change. Because

1:17:32

I ain't gonna change. From the first day you

1:17:34

see, to the last, I guarantee it'll be the

1:17:36

same. And on the next job you see

1:17:38

me, yeah, I love, something will be different, but. You

1:17:41

must bear in mind, these are professional actors. You

1:17:44

know, they change, they change, they

1:17:46

switch it up. They

1:17:48

can seem real at the beginning, and it's like,

1:17:50

hold on, let's see, let's see. Speaking

1:17:53

of love letters to London, I'm gonna wrap

1:17:55

things up with something that we were gonna

1:17:57

do a whole podcast about at one point,

1:17:59

about three. three years ago, just as

1:18:01

the pandemic was ending. Because I want

1:18:03

to talk to you, even if it's

1:18:05

briefly, about rap legends you've been

1:18:08

to see or you've had tickets to see and

1:18:10

have been cancelled. Because that was a big thing

1:18:12

in the Jazz Cafe days in Apollo.

1:18:14

There'd be loads of rap legends who

1:18:16

you'd have tickets for. I

1:18:18

mean, I know I had tickets for

1:18:20

that. Come

1:18:22

around the corner and see the sandwich board

1:18:25

outside like I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously,

1:18:27

there's no social media or internet. And it

1:18:29

was like, oh, that was so... And it

1:18:31

was so common for that era of rap stars

1:18:33

because of visas and shit. But

1:18:36

he'd think to be booked and then they'd literally try and

1:18:38

fly. You can't leave. You can't come

1:18:40

into the country because of whatever

1:18:42

in your past. Yeah, Slick

1:18:44

Rick was

1:18:46

definitely the height of

1:18:49

it. It's really interesting that you asked

1:18:51

that question now and I've got goosebumps

1:18:54

as you said it and I

1:18:56

thought about it. But Tonight is

1:18:58

the 20th anniversary of Asylum Speakers,

1:19:00

the Foreign Beggars album, which was

1:19:02

like the first album that I

1:19:04

was part of and kind

1:19:06

of recognized for. Mind Out was on that, my

1:19:08

song. And Ebo Metropolis

1:19:11

from Foreign Beggars passed away 2020.

1:19:15

So, yeah, Tonight is

1:19:17

like everyone's going to be there. Skinnyman's

1:19:19

going to be there. Yeah, Double

1:19:22

H, Dr. Syntax, Dabla,

1:19:24

all of the old school crew. These American

1:19:27

acts I saw Foreign Beggars opening for. I've

1:19:29

got a clear memory of Idea and Abilities

1:19:31

on their first, them first coming over when

1:19:33

they'd really blown up off Scribble Jam and

1:19:35

stuff like this. And they had their A&E

1:19:37

Day album that was just so good. I

1:19:39

don't be getting there and Foreign Beggars opening it

1:19:41

all up. I'm sure it's like 93 Feet East

1:19:43

or something like that. 93 Feet East, that was

1:19:45

a proper one. It was amazing. Yeah.

1:19:49

And it's mad. It's like a path back

1:19:51

into my old life. Yeah. My friend Celica,

1:19:53

who's an amazing painter from Spain and Lucia.

1:19:56

We met in 2003 on a Beggars. Dude,

1:20:00

on the biggest tour, we call it a tour, but it

1:20:02

was a mini bus of four dates up and down

1:20:04

the country. I said tour,

1:20:06

that counts. Yeah, and he was spraying

1:20:08

stuff up and we were spitting. And

1:20:15

20 years later, or 21

1:20:17

years later, we're the closest of

1:20:19

friends. I go over to all the times, take

1:20:21

my kids to go and paint in his studio,

1:20:23

and he's selling in

1:20:25

galleries and he's an amazing artist, and we're still

1:20:28

brothers. And so he's come over for it. And

1:20:30

so yeah, we're going to go tonight and go

1:20:32

to the gig and it's like, yeah, I feel

1:20:35

really, I feel emotional. Must be emotional. I'm

1:20:37

scared because there's going to be loads of tributes

1:20:40

to E-Bowl and it's

1:20:42

been four years and it's

1:20:45

still struggle to hear his

1:20:47

verses and stuff. Which

1:20:49

is going to be a problem tonight, but allow

1:20:52

it all to hear. Allow it all to hear.

1:20:54

I mentioned to you, I went to, me

1:20:56

and Chris were together yesterday because of

1:20:59

a funeral and it was for

1:21:01

our mate who died 21 years ago. It

1:21:03

was his dad passed, shout out to Errol

1:21:05

Knott. And I've got a weird relationship with

1:21:07

death. I'm quite comfortable with it. I talk

1:21:10

about it a lot. I write about it a

1:21:12

lot. I think about it a lot. And

1:21:14

I was going to this funeral quite kind of

1:21:16

like, I can't wait. I

1:21:18

love the beauty of this. The sharing of

1:21:20

stories, the send off, the tribute.

1:21:22

And it was numerous points that hit

1:21:24

me where I wasn't expecting it. Anytime

1:21:26

they said my mate Jamie's name, I

1:21:29

was just sniffing and welling up

1:21:31

and struggling. And I didn't

1:21:33

expect it. But when I went

1:21:36

home that afternoon, I consciously went on a couple of

1:21:38

walks on my own to kind of go, right,

1:21:40

let's not just put a TV show on, which is

1:21:42

my normal. Let's go for a walk and let's allow

1:21:44

some of it. And it was really

1:21:46

nice. I loved those. Yeah. I

1:21:49

loved those moments of emotion, particularly when you're not expecting them. I went

1:21:51

into that thinking as grimy as it sounds,

1:21:53

I've seen enough death in my life. I

1:21:56

know where I am with this. And then

1:21:58

as I said, just, I got there. All

1:22:00

the seats were taken. There was a

1:22:02

row of people standing all the way around the outline

1:22:04

of the church and then another row in front of

1:22:06

them and then the doors open at the back because

1:22:08

they couldn't get everyone in. And that

1:22:10

alone, I knew about, I knew the direct family

1:22:12

and my two mates who I'd gone with. I

1:22:15

didn't know any of these people, but that alone

1:22:17

made me emotional because I'm like, how many people's

1:22:20

lives has this man touched there? Because

1:22:22

particularly with people, you know, older, they're often the

1:22:24

quieter funerals because there's not a lot of people

1:22:26

left and things like that. So as one of

1:22:29

them was just, even that start, I was like, today

1:22:31

isn't what I thought it was going to be. I

1:22:33

was ready to just be like, this is just beautiful

1:22:35

and I love the send off. And as it was

1:22:37

a conscious choice to go, right, allow all of it.

1:22:39

I made it as we came out, was like, have

1:22:41

you got a cold or something? I kept really sniffing.

1:22:43

I'm like, you know, we're at a funeral, right? I

1:22:45

ain't going to apologize for that. It's

1:22:48

legit. But I'd say that

1:22:50

with a tonight man, allow that. Yeah,

1:22:52

all that emotion is going to come

1:22:54

and it's going to be a beautiful

1:22:57

thing. I'm sure I've told you before, but

1:22:59

with my mate Jamie, my favorite day of

1:23:01

the year is the 25th of April because

1:23:03

we, me and a few mates and his

1:23:05

family always get together. I don't know

1:23:08

if that's going to happen this year because, you

1:23:10

know, there's been another death to be

1:23:12

dealing with, but it's my favorite day of the year. And

1:23:15

21 years on, we're still doing it because

1:23:17

it's that day that we, we probably tell

1:23:19

the same stories every year, but we get

1:23:21

to hear those stories. You've

1:23:24

heard those verses before, but you know, it's

1:23:26

beautiful. And again, it's very obviously very raw

1:23:28

still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think those

1:23:30

things are beautiful too. I love those moments

1:23:32

now. I went from it being the day

1:23:35

that I feared to the day that I'd

1:23:37

look forward to all year round because I'm

1:23:39

like, there's going to be people like

1:23:42

when I was on Facebook, I was like, I know there's

1:23:44

going to be at least one photo I've not seen before

1:23:46

that pops up. And I'm like, oh, fuck. I

1:23:49

think like if you were going to

1:23:51

that funeral or I was going to

1:23:53

the gig tonight by myself, there

1:23:56

would be, it could be reason to fear in

1:23:58

a way. Yeah. I'm with my

1:24:00

brothers and my sisters. And

1:24:02

so I know it's gonna be okay. And

1:24:05

I'm at a place where like, yeah, I'm more

1:24:08

than happy to go off and

1:24:10

have a weep or whatever, do what I need

1:24:12

to do. But it's also just deep in terms

1:24:14

of like, that being so formative

1:24:16

for me, the foreign beggars man, that was

1:24:18

like a really, really important, like it

1:24:21

was kind of the making of us,

1:24:23

you know? It was like really formative

1:24:25

years and wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, amazing, amazing

1:24:28

times in our 20s, man, like early

1:24:30

20s. And just, yeah,

1:24:32

just the creative journey

1:24:34

in the underground, man, it was just, it

1:24:37

was so beautiful what we did together. And we

1:24:39

kind of thought it was gonna last forever. We

1:24:41

thought we were gonna be young and beautiful forever.

1:24:44

And boy, we weren't. Things

1:24:46

had changed and some of us had gone, you

1:24:48

know? And most of

1:24:50

us don't, you know, practice the medium anymore.

1:24:53

So yeah, it's a really, really interesting thing,

1:24:55

man. And then it's like, you know, also

1:24:57

getting to see like Skinny Man tonight, you

1:24:59

know? I'm really excited about that because he's

1:25:01

properly one of my heroes. Like,

1:25:04

you know, you've got like Anthony Hopkins, you've

1:25:06

got Skinny Man. No

1:25:08

shit. You know, Council of State

1:25:10

of Mind is obviously one of the best. Picking

1:25:12

up obviously one of the best out in the world.

1:25:14

People listening to that, what album? But for

1:25:17

me, for my generation and for UK Rap, but. I

1:25:22

was gonna say, for UK Rap alone,

1:25:25

it was a different, it changed so much. And if

1:25:27

I listen to it now, I'm like, I know every

1:25:29

word to so many of the things I'm like, wow,

1:25:31

how is it still in there? I was gonna say,

1:25:34

you say some, and we will wrap

1:25:36

up at some point, I swear. You

1:25:38

say some of us don't practice anymore or

1:25:40

practice the art anymore. How easy is it

1:25:42

to not practice the art anymore? I'm

1:25:45

thinking more because of Cassius

1:25:47

and like stuff that's going on that

1:25:49

you're so, you know, involved in and

1:25:52

around. Do you ever find

1:25:54

yourself going, I Wanna, or

1:25:56

coming up with things in your head

1:25:58

and. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Homeowners

1:26:00

my load is he who got some some

1:26:02

little bit by Never Dies that never goes

1:26:05

more than two lines just like some from

1:26:07

the can. A general stuff this like I

1:26:09

would never want anyone to read of his

1:26:11

his way of of I talked about this

1:26:13

a mystery race because people always ask out

1:26:15

to use to Right now you sound like

1:26:18

still right and annoyingly to say. The

1:26:20

same by so I reckon over and

1:26:22

the best things over him since us

1:26:24

don't know who brought him up exactly

1:26:27

sites but ask as he cites to

1:26:29

learn. So three lines yeah have not

1:26:31

written the best song or in the

1:26:33

have realize I'm not. That's better than

1:26:35

anything I've ever remember it because I'm

1:26:38

Evanston into a full not he was

1:26:40

gets to exist yet I realized you

1:26:42

asked how easy it is and like

1:26:44

is the only way. Like

1:26:46

at the ideas I hadn't no feelings towards

1:26:49

Spin on I want to spare to. If

1:26:51

you think about it I could finally make

1:26:53

you know I could probably get Dj premier

1:26:55

to pretty smile them as if whereas I

1:26:58

couldn't when I was Spitzer yeah in Opium

1:27:00

Aca get p Roxy do often premier to

1:27:02

do the of or off a couple brigade

1:27:04

makes by some people walk up over yet

1:27:07

wicked Features. If you think about a probably

1:27:09

any good position to make it finally make

1:27:11

that the album and be you know try

1:27:13

and make my own way. But as with

1:27:16

so many things. In Life. When. You

1:27:18

have the means of stuff to do it in

1:27:20

that way I I don't want it. Is

1:27:22

did nothing inside me at once. If you

1:27:24

know could a spat on loads of people

1:27:26

season and people's hundred as ingest people say

1:27:29

our when you come about you going to

1:27:31

give me advice and then is like and

1:27:33

not who like the I mean in my

1:27:35

mind this is my dinner with a quality

1:27:37

but there's so many things in my past

1:27:40

I'll never go back to his past cells

1:27:42

and I was young and you know was

1:27:44

fun and. Also. The nature

1:27:46

of the median and. Know. Rap

1:27:48

and Hip Hop and. As. is into mack

1:27:50

of early this morning if is came back into

1:27:52

am i said i was was a since he was

1:27:55

on the movements and i'm in of them as such

1:27:57

a knee and and all of that i just

1:27:59

have a does I as a person

1:28:01

have a huge problem with it. The

1:28:04

Sonics is the making of

1:28:06

me and moves my soul. It does

1:28:08

not sound too rap fans. Yeah, it moves my soul. I

1:28:10

listen to more misogynistic hip-hop

1:28:13

than I listen to anything

1:28:15

that aligns with my moral

1:28:18

code. Now I

1:28:20

can make peace with that listening to it

1:28:22

and also have no choice just because I

1:28:25

love you. I love Redman

1:28:27

too much. Yeah, and I want that to be

1:28:29

my friend. But to make it

1:28:31

myself, to put my name on it, yeah,

1:28:34

no way. No way. I saw

1:28:36

my friend, my trainer, my Muay Thai

1:28:38

trainer on the way down on

1:28:40

my motorbike. I stopped. I said, I'm

1:28:43

late. I ain't got time to stop for anyone

1:28:46

but this is you. Quick hug, bro. Eat

1:28:48

my barrack. And I was saying to him, like,

1:28:50

oh, he's like, where you off to? I was like, I'm just

1:28:52

going to see my friend to record a

1:28:55

podcast. I was like, already feeling

1:28:57

like, oh, no one wants

1:28:59

to hear what you've got to say. No

1:29:01

one wants to hear you talk for two

1:29:03

hours. And already kind of

1:29:05

like having those thoughts. But

1:29:07

I said to him, but I know we

1:29:09

have meaningful conversations, meaning me and him, just

1:29:11

like we always do whenever we speak often.

1:29:14

I said, we have meaningful conversations. So I'm

1:29:16

just going to go and have a meaningful

1:29:19

conversation with a friend. But it's that feeling

1:29:21

that makes me not really want to do

1:29:23

too much press and not put myself out

1:29:25

there like that. That

1:29:28

is just like I could never rap.

1:29:30

I could never be on another rap

1:29:32

song again. I don't think. Yeah.

1:29:34

But who knows? I'm 40. I'm

1:29:37

50, 60. Who knows like how

1:29:39

things might change, the medium might change. If

1:29:42

there's a role that demands

1:29:44

it. If I

1:29:46

found something conceptual that I could

1:29:48

do, where I could use the

1:29:50

medium and do something conceptually, I'm

1:29:52

open to anything. Just

1:29:55

like I'm open to tomorrow finding out I've

1:29:57

got to do a film where I've got to be a ballet dancer. spending

1:30:00

six days a week doing ballet instead of Muay Thai.

1:30:02

If that's what it becomes, you

1:30:04

know, or whatever, judo, you know? And

1:30:07

okay, well then we start that tomorrow. But I

1:30:10

can't see it happening, man. I can't see it

1:30:12

happening. It's so much an important part of me.

1:30:14

You know, it's like spitting is like, I don't

1:30:17

even wanna say my mother's breast, but you know,

1:30:19

it's like, you know, I needed that milk. And

1:30:22

that was what helped me grow. But like,

1:30:24

I don't drink that no more. I'm not,

1:30:26

you know, it's not for the big man

1:30:28

like me, you know?

1:30:30

Yeah. But I love it so much. I'm such a

1:30:32

fan. And then again, to be able to work with, be

1:30:35

a part of Cassie's music, but from the

1:30:37

outside never record, well, just to skip and

1:30:39

never record bars and that is like really

1:30:42

interesting. I'm like, oh, this is like, this

1:30:44

suits me. This is like good for all

1:30:46

of us. Yeah, I really like it. I

1:30:48

really like it. Cause it's still number one

1:30:51

fan. And having that

1:30:53

objectivity, having been gone from

1:30:55

it for so long, but also having

1:30:58

seen another industry and

1:31:00

having tasted success in another industry that

1:31:02

I never tasted in music means I can

1:31:04

go, ah,

1:31:06

remember I used to do that, but in this you do this. And

1:31:09

like, oh, imagine if you'd done, oh, okay.

1:31:12

Oh, now I see when I got offered that and

1:31:14

I did that. Oh, no wonder they told me, get

1:31:16

the fuck out and lock the door. You know,

1:31:18

it's like, you can see it so much, oversee

1:31:21

it so much more from the outside. So I

1:31:23

really like being a part of people's projects. I

1:31:26

think the outside perspective though is fascinating. Like

1:31:28

there's easily been a thing I found when

1:31:31

trying to get film projects off the ground. It's

1:31:33

like, all right, we're meant to do it that

1:31:36

way. But in music I would have done it

1:31:38

this way. So I say, I'm going to do it.

1:31:40

We'll see how that shake things up. Like that's how

1:31:42

I got my break in acting was I

1:31:44

just hit casting directors up directly, which you're

1:31:47

not meant to do. And I

1:31:49

was like, I've done it since then. And there was

1:31:51

so much stuff that got me off the ground because

1:31:53

I didn't Know the way it's done

1:31:55

in this industry. So I think there's loads

1:31:57

now that I look at analytically and say,

1:31:59

well, This was an

1:32:01

album us provide when he's out there.

1:32:03

I wouldn't just do a series of

1:32:05

press junkets african A to react this

1:32:07

or do that would have some states

1:32:10

that have the right Ld different things

1:32:12

slots I love those those cross over

1:32:14

him and and very things that that

1:32:16

you can bring the aren't just gonna

1:32:18

be or that's how you put an

1:32:20

album out on us, how you put

1:32:23

feel mail or sauna cycles assessing like

1:32:25

the thing that love about film and

1:32:27

the thing have loved about that was

1:32:29

and Lucasfilm a collaboration. And feel like

1:32:31

when I was spend it wasn't didn't feel

1:32:33

like a collaboration nine or right you are

1:32:35

working with produces and made that have been

1:32:37

in the limits of how I used to

1:32:39

collaborate with the in. polite, Working with

1:32:42

produces even when you're working with other rappers

1:32:44

as stuff. I never felt like I dunno

1:32:46

was at the same may because I was

1:32:48

never in like a group group. Yeah, and

1:32:50

if you know any Grigor, even if you're

1:32:53

in a group is a level of competition

1:32:55

rather than collaboration hierarchy. it was a lotta

1:32:57

time in. Are you to Gary Barlow? you

1:32:59

the I'm A Chance a friend? Yes, it's

1:33:01

a scenario man. So.

1:33:05

Yeah those as you're gonna get me back on

1:33:07

the bus anytime soon made by M. maybe the

1:33:09

of in I may be in may be in

1:33:11

twenty years mean you do I do out in

1:33:13

amber have become a sissy What a nice stirs

1:33:16

up my friend to says you know maybe he

1:33:18

might be speak it I'm I've have a voice

1:33:20

not a one I am but there was be

1:33:22

as fun as and we got going to our

1:33:24

guys insisted fifty said is fading someone's iran by

1:33:27

suffering under. Fire

1:33:29

subsidies and of it's as if. he

1:33:32

will cease who save homicides the gonna kick

1:33:35

his hour and a minutes of again after

1:33:37

up out that may is been a pleasure

1:33:39

is ever so i might be a beautiful

1:33:41

things he touched upon our when we do

1:33:44

too we talked deep and there's value in

1:33:46

that we don't talk every day we don't

1:33:48

tickle zombie could go a year or two

1:33:51

but when we do talk it's is beautiful

1:33:53

and and of this who's other i loved

1:33:55

i'm at so many people reach out about

1:33:57

that first time of of which is side

1:34:00

particularly the wider folk not

1:34:02

kind of mantra of someone

1:34:05

has to be in this role, why not

1:34:07

me and that kind of thing. There's so

1:34:09

many things from there that stuck. So, yeah,

1:34:11

I appreciate getting to sit down and go

1:34:13

through it again. He's truly a joy man.

1:34:15

And I feel like the only guy that

1:34:18

I want to speak to really with this

1:34:20

stuff and even this Rebel Moon press tour,

1:34:22

we went Sao Paulo, Tokyo, LA thing. And

1:34:24

I was like, I don't want to do

1:34:26

any extra press. Don't find me no extra

1:34:28

stuff. Please, like this will be more than enough.

1:34:31

But yeah, when when when people come to call

1:34:33

in, I know it will be meaningful. When is

1:34:36

the right time? And that's what you start exactly.

1:34:38

That feels like the right time. And like we've

1:34:40

both been sort of trying to make stuff happen.

1:34:42

But I'm very aware now sometimes where I'm like,

1:34:44

yeah, Pip's the right guy. But if it's not

1:34:47

the right time for me, then let's

1:34:49

wait. And when it's right, it will be

1:34:51

beautiful and we'll never forget it. And

1:34:53

I'm grateful. So me and Bashir have talked about

1:34:56

that because Bashir has never really done a big

1:34:58

sit down, let's get into it. And we've

1:35:00

said a few times when the time's right. I've

1:35:02

said, I will be open invitation, but when the

1:35:04

time's right, we'll get that in. But

1:35:07

it's a joy, mate. And I look forward

1:35:09

to all that's ahead. Thank you, Rebel. Much

1:35:11

love, man. You've

1:35:28

been listening to Scroobius

1:35:30

Pip's Distraction Pieces.

1:35:33

There we go. That was Ed Scrime.

1:35:35

Another classic in the bag and a

1:35:37

long one. A long classic.

1:35:40

We're tickling the chin of two hours.

1:35:43

Thank you for tuning in and for listening.

1:35:45

What a conversation, eh? I could talk to

1:35:47

that man for, I mean, we

1:35:49

have talked for hours on end, but for

1:35:52

days on end. Absolute dude.

1:35:54

Absolute dude. I look

1:35:56

forward to us working together at some point. You

1:35:59

know, that's not. It's not presented itself yet,

1:36:01

but all these things come at the right time.

1:36:04

Speaking of coming at the right time, I'll

1:36:06

be here again next week, Wednesday. You know

1:36:08

what it is. It's the Distraction Pieces podcast.

1:36:11

We're always here. We pretty much always have

1:36:13

been. An episode a week for almost 10

1:36:15

years at the moment is what we're talking

1:36:17

about. At least one episode a

1:36:20

week for 10 years. No

1:36:22

off seasons, no breaks. We're

1:36:25

here, you're here. It's a beautiful thing.

1:36:28

And we'll continue to be so for as long as

1:36:30

it makes sense. And

1:36:34

at the moment it makes sense. So I will see you

1:36:36

next week. Until then, stay

1:36:38

safe and stay sane. Titter.

1:37:01

Hey folks, it's Mark Maron from WTF.

1:37:03