0:00

Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is The

0:02

Distraction Pieces podcast episode 566 and

0:04

I'm joined today by

0:08

Susie Ruffell and for

0:10

me it seems insane and we

0:13

discuss this and we discuss this in detail.

0:15

It seems insane that we've got to

0:17

episode 566 before having Susie

0:20

on. I'm a big fan of

0:22

Susie's comedy, I'm a big fan

0:24

of their podcasts and

0:26

I'm a big fan of their just presence in

0:28

this world. Again, as I

0:30

express in the episodes, so

0:33

this one's been a long time coming, it's

0:35

about flipping time. As you hear this, Susie

0:38

has I think one more day

0:40

announced of their

0:42

Big Kick Energy live

0:44

podcasts. Is it the Bristol

0:47

one? I think it is, but there's more to

0:49

be announced as well. I've heard rumours, so they

0:51

may be announced by the time this comes out

0:53

but follow on the socials and all

0:55

that business to get on top of

0:57

that and as we discuss they will

0:59

be going on tour next year, I believe, but

1:01

there'll be loads of work in progress stuff to

1:03

go and sink your teeth into. Yeah,

1:06

it's wonderful. But while we're

1:08

here, I should mention that a friend of

1:10

the podcast and label, B Dolan, dropped

1:13

a new music video on Friday, Fantasy

1:16

Baseball. It's not about baseball,

1:18

it's about the obsession

1:20

with ranking rappers, top five all time,

1:22

dead or alive, and

1:24

finding different

1:27

ways to rank and put art

1:29

against art, you know,

1:31

poetry slams rather than

1:33

poetry readings, comedy competitions

1:35

rather than comedy lineups,

1:37

things like that. It's really good and you

1:39

can pre-order B Dolan's album

1:42

The Wound is Not the Body, which is

1:44

about to come out. It's literally about to

1:46

come out in the UK. It will be

1:48

available in like your HMVs and your Amazons

1:50

and all that, but also at speechdevelopmentrecalls.com, which

1:53

is one of the things that we brought

1:55

to you by today. So head over there

1:57

to support the podcast and support the podcast.

2:00

independent rap. Good combination of things to

2:02

support all in all. You

2:04

can also support by going over to

2:06

patreon.com/scrubius pip yo where there's now a

2:08

variety of tiers at which you can

2:10

support and I've been more

2:12

active on there recently so again I'm not

2:15

promising it's gonna last but if you want

2:17

to throw some money in the kitty then

2:19

that'd be awesome and you

2:21

can head to twitch.tv/scrubius pip

2:24

yo for all the fun

2:26

and hijinks. I had arguably my biggest

2:28

stream of all time on Friday I

2:31

did a song battle contest for

2:33

best kids TV theme tunes

2:35

so everyone who tuned in

2:37

live had a chance

2:39

to submit a choice and we had

2:42

64 going head to

2:44

head in a tournament and then the people in

2:46

chat vote by selecting song one

2:48

or song two for each

2:50

round and we have around a 64 then

2:52

around a 32 then 16 and then 8

2:55

then the quarter finals and the semi finals

2:57

then the finals and we decided the best

2:59

kids TV theme song ever now

3:02

you can go and watch that on demand it's a

3:04

long one I warn you but it's a joy so

3:07

feel free to go and watch that or

3:09

just come and hang out at future stuff

3:11

over at twitch again people sometimes

3:13

avoid twitch because they're like I don't know how it works

3:15

if you can figure out how to listen to a podcast

3:18

or how to use Netflix

3:20

or Instagram then I promise you

3:22

twitch isn't complicated all people are

3:24

like oh it's all computer games

3:26

now it's arguing over kids theme

3:28

tunes as well instead

3:31

sometimes so yeah they're the ways that

3:33

you can come and hang out and

3:35

support let's get into the podcast because

3:38

as said me and

3:40

Susie have never crossed paths we've

3:42

never had a word of conversation so I

3:44

was excited to do so and when

3:46

we jumped on the zoom I quickly declared

3:49

myself a huge fan and Susie very

3:51

kindly declared themselves a fan of the

3:53

of the podcast so that's a good

3:55

start to any conversation do you

3:57

know I mean you meet for the first time and you both say I

4:00

already like you now we can

4:02

relax you don't have to be sitting there thinking do they hate

4:04

me do they hate me do they hate me do they hate

4:06

me I already like

4:08

you so let's talk it's

4:12

a beautiful thing so I hope you already

4:14

like this no I hope you like this

4:17

episode 566 of the distraction pieces podcast with a wondrous

4:22

Susie ruffle and

4:43

then I record this as a backup but

4:46

we are rolling um I'm here today with

4:48

Susie ruffle how are you I'm very

4:50

good why I'm delighted about is that I can

4:52

see what Bridget Christie was talking about in her

4:54

episode of your podcast by the

4:56

art behind you yes the weird the weird

4:58

art so there's a there's a which I

5:00

like a store on

5:02

a crucifix yes purchased by Riker

5:05

and a painting by by Heath

5:07

Caine but yeah it's the

5:09

perfect podcasting backgrounds spot right I like

5:12

it what's in your background well that is one

5:14

of my own tour posters which I can't decide if

5:16

that's cringe or not no I love it but from a show

5:19

that I really enjoyed doing and

5:22

then that is a Magda

5:24

Archer picture which said we like we

5:26

live that we like that we live that I

5:28

love it and it's a it's of course a

5:30

small bear riding a swan yeah of course

5:33

as one would expect you know which I

5:35

guess most people have in their office I've

5:37

told this story a million times but but

5:39

not to me so go for it touring

5:41

people in general musicians comedians whatever you get

5:44

to do tour posters and that's exciting and

5:46

you want to get some and frame some

5:49

but one of my favorite moments

5:51

was being in the studio of rapper

5:54

B Dolan with another rapper

5:57

Sage Francis and we put them

5:59

in our office or in a our studios or whatever else.

6:01

And he's loading up a beat and it

6:03

was just a silence as it's all loaded

6:05

and Sage looks around and just goes, so

6:08

who's the Be Dolan fan? She

6:10

just killed me. Cause

6:13

you can't just throw these things away, but then

6:15

equally you don't want it in your living room,

6:17

just kind of, he's picking up posters of me.

6:19

But so I do have a room that's got

6:21

so many posters and bits of art that people

6:23

have given me and stuff like that. I'm

6:26

like, I can't throw it away, but I can't

6:28

have it on display in the general areas

6:30

of my house. No, I don't want to,

6:32

like, I don't want to plummet to

6:34

see it. It's been like, oh she's like an

6:36

egomaniac. Yeah, yeah. There's just some pictures of

6:39

me over there. Yeah, there's just me

6:41

slowly aging through the years. Yeah,

6:43

exactly that, exactly that. When

6:45

I started this podcast, I

6:47

started, I decided I'd take

6:49

a Polaroid for each

6:52

episode and that's got depressing. I

6:57

didn't realize I was just going to literally weekly

7:00

track my aging. You could put

7:02

them all together and they'd end up like one of those,

7:04

you know those TikTok videos where people are like glitching all

7:07

over the shop and it's like, look at me aging over

7:09

a year or something. Yeah, it'd be exactly, I

7:11

like that. But just to start things off, how

7:13

are you today? How are you, how's your weekend?

7:15

How's your life? How are you? My

7:17

weekend was good, very good in fact. I

7:20

had a show on Friday night, then family

7:22

stuff all weekend, which is pretty nice. And

7:25

then this morning, we got up and dropped our

7:27

daughter at nursery and then decided to like run

7:29

to the beach and have a walk across the

7:31

beach for just 25 minutes, grab a

7:34

coffee just to start the week, looking at the sea. I

7:37

love that and I love it particularly because today

7:39

is Earth Day. So I love the fact that

7:41

you run across to the beach rather than drove

7:44

to the beach or anything like that. And then

7:46

just had some, had some

7:49

nature. I think, yeah, I think Weird

7:51

like people talk about the positives and negatives

7:53

of Lockdown and that whole period and things

7:55

that made us aware of ourselves. But I

7:57

Think getting out in nature was a massive.

8:00

The thing that eight really highlight the

8:02

importance of that for me and generally

8:04

water is a big six or to

8:06

go either to a river or to

8:09

the say or to a light is

8:11

be adults are is such as yeah

8:13

powerful thing. I love living by

8:15

the say yeah I love it

8:17

is Sites I lived in London,

8:19

Sir Ababa seventeen eighteen years. Yes!

8:21

and then we need to Brian's and it

8:24

was like I have this is. I

8:26

didn't realize how much I missed this. This is amazing!

8:28

Yeah do you think Bryson should be?

8:30

The should be some kind of rule

8:32

about them cold in a a beach

8:34

though cause I just started seeing pebbles

8:36

count as a beach in it really

8:38

annoys me always forget and until I

8:41

get i get to bribe them are

8:43

against the be allying I'm mainly stones.

8:45

See I got in Portsmouth say Pebble

8:47

Beach is make sensory. A stand as.

8:49

It stands as you're lucky, you see? I

8:51

mean, it's. Seat Seasons absolute truths

8:53

and although before we started as kind

8:56

of saying that I'm up I'm really

8:58

excited to have this chap. I think

9:00

it's the perfect dates.dot more we come

9:03

up with a big fan of your

9:05

work and is of of you is

9:07

of as a presence but will gamer

9:09

one of us are not economy say

9:12

well as I said analysis out of

9:14

this podcast say I decide. To

9:16

license the else to do it. Is bizarre up

9:19

arms of never crossed. His is what we

9:21

were discussing. Got so many meet friends I'm

9:23

a big comedy five and over see a

9:25

big big podcast fine and you t in

9:27

both of those worlds. yet for some reason

9:30

with no crossover it's is to see them.

9:32

Have been trying to keep us apart. Think it

9:34

might be that she's. In the powers Bc

9:36

so. Of course you might have got podcasts

9:38

and of let them know have become a

9:40

sideline but a bit of allows a foreign

9:42

juri pages podcast like Roses and as a

9:45

guide and ship John Harrison job growth have

9:47

focus everyone I might sweeps has got a

9:49

podcast. They never seem to let me be

9:51

in direct contact with the of a member

9:54

of their process assess assess. It always feels

9:56

as if it comes to see scientists if

9:58

I want to hit the. To do

10:00

any put bible work advanced are you

10:02

comfortable out and then he'll talk to

10:05

Jerry and yeah is and yesterday some

10:07

of his been doing processing to keep

10:09

in mind some in some strange way

10:11

he met the right I want to

10:13

talk about the courthouse and want to

10:15

talk about comedy sort of for a

10:17

do that for some reason for don't

10:19

know why I wrote this in my

10:21

notes and just want to get your

10:23

opinions on Sunday Many small and easy

10:25

to figure out as as his social

10:28

media good or bad. Oh god. Is

10:31

a struggle with it so bots a

10:33

cynical if it is. so that's. I mean,

10:36

I'm see to start with something quite easy. Do

10:38

you know? do you have the own son? I

10:40

think it should be treated with caution.

10:42

I think it's good as long as

10:44

you say. Because and I think the

10:46

As: it's really hard not to ease

10:49

up some kind. Of obsessed to the

10:51

city has to end up not comparing yourself

10:53

to other people. I don't know that we

10:55

were meant to know about the ins and

10:57

outs is everyone's ice as humans and I

10:59

will miss asked several hundred and and this

11:01

as a day I think we're meant to

11:03

nervous about one hundred other people interested. In

11:05

that was a year. But I

11:08

still like the constant excessive

11:10

information about everything so of

11:12

makes my brain Ikea. Some

11:14

of the time it magnifies everything a

11:16

magma since there was a period the

11:18

are so oh is made the world

11:20

worse by think is to shallowness how

11:22

bad the world is wrong with her

11:24

So sorry for a suicide their life's

11:26

people say oh be your only see

11:29

the good side of people's eyes but

11:31

that was kind of always the case

11:33

if you bump into someone industry they're

11:35

gonna generally sites. oh yeah maybe he's

11:37

doing goods and and yeah on this

11:39

but you you always only got the

11:41

good side of people's lives. This is

11:43

more. Magnified to such a

11:45

degree that it seems. Fight and

11:47

yeah and damage in some. yeah

11:49

and i think i yeah i try to

11:52

figure that the people have i never said

11:54

the get this and a as and the

11:56

world has always been awful is in some

11:58

respects i hit with side of it

12:01

is that it's become a great place

12:03

for people to connect with other people

12:05

like them. Certainly

12:07

as sort of a queer person I

12:09

think had there been social media or

12:12

like YouTube when I was growing up

12:14

I think it would have been really

12:16

comforting to see adults that were

12:18

like me which I didn't really see at all.

12:20

So in that respect I think

12:22

lots of people and even if it's the

12:25

thing that you're into you know if

12:27

you're into playing Dungeons and Dragons it's like oh you'll

12:29

find a whole community of people that get you or

12:31

if you want to play a football

12:34

game online or whatever the thing is I think that's

12:36

really nice I think that it has this

12:38

like it can make you feel super

12:40

isolated or it can make you feel

12:42

super connected. Yeah and it sort

12:44

of depends on which side the

12:47

Queen drops that day. Absolutely again it

12:49

goes back to the magnifying of everything

12:51

because I think you're completely right there

12:53

I think we wouldn't be in such

12:55

an amazing place for the development of

12:58

sexuality of gender of types of relationships

13:00

of all these different things that seem

13:02

to be evolving so it's such an

13:04

exciting place that's often confusing for me

13:06

but wonderful and

13:08

exciting to see and social media

13:11

opens you up to seeing other

13:13

people like you but

13:15

then at the same time it opens

13:17

you up to people who don't like

13:19

people like you or like that and

13:21

those I mean it opens you up

13:23

to a abuse that you wouldn't have

13:25

got previously or accusations that you wouldn't

13:27

have got previously in your small

13:30

town or whatever else. Yeah it's why you've got

13:32

to take everything online with a pinch of salt like

13:34

eat the good stuff as well yeah yeah if

13:36

I believed people on the internet half the day I'd

13:38

walk around feeling like a dog with two dicks yeah

13:41

and the rest of the day I'd walk around feeling

13:43

like I was the worst person that ever existed and

13:45

I should probably stop doing all of the things that

13:47

I do and live under a

13:49

rock. It's one of the rare things where

13:51

experience in this particular industry really helps because

13:54

I think that's something you learn early on

13:56

in any entertainment type thing I mentioned Big

13:58

Dodo earlier but He streams on

14:00

Twitch as well and he had a thing recently

14:02

because a YouTuber who comments on, who

14:05

reacts to music videos, found one

14:07

of his songs and loved it. And Bea kind

14:09

of talked about it, but his audience were kind of

14:11

surprised he wasn't losing his shit at the praise. And

14:14

then the next video that this guy reacted to, he

14:16

didn't like. And Bea was like, this

14:18

was why. This was why I didn't

14:20

get excited about this guy claiming I'm the best thing

14:23

in the world. Because then, so I

14:25

would then have to accept when he thinks that he

14:27

doesn't agree with my political views or whatever here. And,

14:29

you know, that's the thing you've got to

14:31

take, you know, getting like great reviews is

14:33

nice. And like, you know, we've all got

14:35

an ego, but I think that as

14:38

much as you're willing to believe everything from a

14:40

five star review, you've got to believe everything from

14:42

the three star as well. Yeah. So

14:44

you're better off just sort of taking both of them

14:46

and going, okay, well, yeah, these people

14:49

like it. And these people are the people that

14:51

come. Yeah. People that pay to come. And

14:53

I'll just keep doing what I like to

14:55

do. Yeah. And when validation

14:58

starts to mean nothing in the end as

15:00

well. Anyway, I recently had

15:02

someone excitedly messaging

15:04

me to say that decided I was

15:06

a lyrical genius, which was

15:09

obviously exciting and positive. And then the particular lyric

15:11

that they chose, I was like, Oh, I don't

15:13

even like that one. I'm not that proud of

15:15

that one. He is the ones I

15:17

wanted you to tell me I'm a lyrical genius for,

15:19

but now you're praising me for the wrong bit. So

15:21

it's like, well, it's all pointless. Let's just forget about

15:23

it. Yeah. It's an interesting place,

15:26

isn't it? And I just, yeah, I go on and

15:28

off constantly. Have you found with like

15:30

live stuff, just talking about like the buzz, like I

15:32

remember I was talking to someone about this the other

15:34

day and I wonder if it's the same in music,

15:36

but like when I was coming

15:39

through and I was when I was really new

15:41

and you'd go and do like a 10 minute

15:43

spot at the Birmingham Glee or

15:45

like, you know, a proper comedy club, but you'd be

15:47

the 10 spot. So you'd be on like some, some

15:49

clubs don't give you any money at all. Sometimes you

15:51

get like half the fee because you're doing half a

15:53

set and there'll be times when I'd have really good

15:56

ones. Ones where I'd go next time I'm

15:58

going to get the 20 next one. I'm going to like. Today

16:00

to kick this made me stop. Iran

16:02

is allowed to use unlicensed hi A

16:04

smashing a gig to three hundred two

16:07

hundred fifty three and people would stay

16:09

with me for a week and equally

16:11

a bad gig. The shame shudders the

16:13

I would walk around with thinking of

16:15

it's would certainly through week now I

16:18

should have a fantastic gig in front

16:20

of the thousand people and I would

16:22

say the bug lasts for about six

16:24

minutes. Pathetic spokeswoman said you be like

16:26

stuff was amazing I love to that

16:28

I was in this. The even less

16:30

than that probably bothersome have walked by to the

16:33

restroom an untouched you get with the at have

16:35

been on yes of Wichita and is that the

16:37

same? See it. Yours is the weed is

16:39

the weakness of my in your passion your

16:41

your work is new again from normal and

16:44

if we die always member The first time

16:46

I did my first big headline to and

16:48

it was excellent him but my partner of

16:50

the time would not bring me after every

16:52

show. Miss me off for of research know

16:54

how was it after four five shows it

16:56

was not whoop it was the same as

16:58

as the last one is the goods to

17:00

say news of don't to a town everyone

17:02

who seeks on goods has got to give

17:04

her in a room system and the south

17:06

is about how good I am. And then

17:09

have left for is not is never going

17:11

to really be bad. His kids, kids uma

17:13

you know fish a is your headline to

17:15

everyone is there for you. As such sites

17:17

it's a different thing I remember feeling really

17:19

good kind of ungrateful because I'm of into

17:21

the to do more in a message got

17:23

all my god it was the best thing

17:25

in the world is us day when will

17:27

again yeah but but but the why far

17:29

as and good at the hotel the successor

17:31

that's the main thing. I'm focused, some of

17:33

them are videos or the beds or it's

17:36

not very dark rooms and I'm evans that's.

17:38

really the iran as far as the

17:40

car and the neo this kind of

17:42

things it's less by small things become

17:44

the ferrari bus a weed thing i

17:46

learned so a stop to music and

17:49

playing live in general and have not

17:51

missed it and was something of realize

17:53

over the years from that is the

17:55

moink simon was always ah salween people's

17:57

is is this new sing of crazy

18:00

And again, I think it's one of

18:02

the advantages of comedy, is you

18:04

bring new material through more often.

18:06

So if I'd have a

18:08

new album, that first chunk of gigs I'd be

18:10

so excited about. By the end, I'd be like,

18:12

oh, I've shown you all it now. I'm

18:15

no longer that excited because it was

18:18

the realization after I stopped that. Again, it was

18:20

a nice realization that it wasn't particularly about just

18:22

getting on stage and everyone cheering and thinking I'm

18:25

great. It was about, oh, but look at this

18:27

thing that I've made or written or created. Yeah,

18:30

exactly that. Because I've since

18:33

been at Friends gigs where we've got tracks together.

18:35

If I wanted that hit of Dothanin, I could

18:37

jump up and do a track with them and

18:39

it hasn't appealed at all. Because it's like, no,

18:42

we know that. We've

18:44

played that. I've shown you all that. We don't need to

18:47

show it again. You can

18:49

listen to that at home. So how

18:51

is that buzz of a

18:53

good gig when it's new

18:55

material? Oh, like the best. Yeah,

18:57

it's longer, right? It lasts longer and it's

19:00

more exciting because you weren't sure, I guess.

19:02

So the first time you do new material,

19:05

you're going to have that even bigger rush of it goes

19:07

well. I love it. I love doing new.

19:09

So I've finished a tour in November.

19:12

Yeah. Then the show had to stay in

19:14

my head until January. So I was filming

19:16

it in January. So I was still doing

19:18

that stuff and keeping that

19:21

stuff fresh as I could. So

19:23

it was at the tip of my fingers when I was

19:25

recording it because I was only recording it once. I

19:27

don't write these. I need to nail it. Yeah, I

19:30

need to nail it. And then I've been

19:32

doing some other writing work and had some

19:34

other jobs on. And now I'm Sunday. This

19:36

week is my first new material gig for the

19:38

next tour, which was not this

19:40

June, next June, June 25. So

19:43

I've got a good while to write

19:45

it, but I'm really excited. I'm really excited

19:47

to go. I've got some ideas that

19:49

I've not that I've only said to

19:51

my wife, who is usually like a

19:53

really good sort of litmus test. Yeah. Where

19:55

she'll go. She'll laugh or she'll go.

19:58

Yes, that's kind of interesting. And

20:00

that will be her going, I think this

20:02

is like, this is specifically

20:04

you or you need to find a

20:06

way for people to connect with this, which is really helpful because she's

20:09

not a tall comedy adjacent. She's so far

20:11

from comedy. She likes it, but she doesn't

20:13

love it. Yeah,

20:15

that's what you want though. That balance because

20:18

the rest of the feedback that you'll

20:20

be getting privately will be from comedians

20:22

who again, comedians and comedians, you need

20:25

a balance of that. You need to be making

20:27

the comedians laugh, but

20:30

you don't want to only be making the comedian laugh.

20:32

Oh yeah, like, yeah, I mean, none

20:34

of my stuff is ever like sort of highbrow.

20:36

And it's like, you know,

20:38

what I do is sort of mainstream. So it needs

20:40

to be, they're the gigs that I do, the telly

20:42

that I do, the places I play at. It's, and

20:45

that's the comedy that I like as well. I like

20:47

sort of, I like connecting with lots of people. But

20:50

yeah, it's good to have a, don't

20:52

get me wrong, I'm not sort of standing in

20:54

my kitchen doing the bit, but I'm sort of

20:57

going, is that a funny idea? And so yeah,

20:59

I've got a gig with friends as well, actually,

21:01

on Sunday. I love the idea of after

21:03

dinner every night, you just do a quick five

21:06

just to draw and think about it. The

21:08

weird thing is I have a mic

21:11

and I walk onto music. Yeah,

21:13

you're like, oh, can we start that new

21:15

series on Netflix? Can we just get this

21:18

out of the way? Not

21:20

before me. No, no, no, no, no. But

21:22

yeah, absolutely. The excitement of doing

21:24

that new material gig has

21:26

been like in the diary for ages. And now I've started like peppering

21:28

them through my diary where I go. Okay, because the

21:30

tar, when I'm still doing sort of proper

21:32

gigs, I use my, you know, older stuff

21:34

because I think if people are paid, you

21:36

know, good money to see a lineup show,

21:39

I think it's impolite to go on with stuff. I don't

21:41

know if it works. Yeah. And I

21:43

know there are some comics that would be like, no, you know, comedy

21:45

for me. And that's how I ask

21:49

what your new material approach is, because

21:51

I always remember I had one evening,

21:53

which was the best example, because I

21:55

went to two new material shows, but

21:57

headline new material shows and such. So

21:59

it wasn't multiline. So

22:01

it was Simon

22:04

Amstel was doing an earlier one and

22:06

then Ramesh was doing a later one.

22:08

And Simon was really kind of, I've

22:10

got these loose ideas, let's

22:12

talk for a bit, see how it goes.

22:14

And I went to Ramesh

22:16

and I was like, how's this new material?

22:19

Like this feels like a stadium show. But

22:21

again, that could be just how far along

22:23

they are on the new material. But I

22:25

always remember hearing Joe Wilkinson talk about Russian

22:28

Conaty and her going on stage with literally

22:30

nothing. And just figuring it

22:32

out and going, all right, let's have a

22:34

chat and see where we land. So where

22:36

do you sit on that on that spectrum

22:38

of it's all lined out, you just need

22:40

to bounce it off the audience versus it's

22:42

really loose or you've got literally nothing? No,

22:45

I would never go up with literally nothing. I don't

22:47

have that kind of confidence. But I also will

22:49

never type my shows out. The only time I've

22:51

ever typed up my standoff is when I've had

22:53

to do it for telly and they've had to,

22:55

and a lawyer has to see it before it

22:57

goes out on a big TV show.

22:59

But right, so I write it all

23:01

down with like a pencil and

23:04

spider diagrams. And

23:07

then we'll have, I'll have like

23:09

a word, you know, not that this is my material

23:11

because people that don't know me that listening will be

23:13

like, God, that sounds dreadful. But if it was like

23:15

kitchen, and then underneath it, I'd have

23:17

draw whisk. And I'd know I'd have an idea about

23:19

a drawer and a whisk. And then I'd go right,

23:21

okay, now it's one of your classic bits. So it's

23:24

what you're mainly known for. And

23:26

I really appreciate you saying that.

23:29

And when I go and do gigs, I was like, draw, draw,

23:32

draw, draw, draw, draw. It's like

23:34

glass and it's mad. And

23:36

I'll have a cup and I'll have a couple of lines

23:38

that I think are really funny. Now,

23:40

sometimes I'm wrong. Yeah. Or sometimes it's just

23:43

funny for me. And that's okay. And that's

23:45

where that's where the line learning happens. But

23:47

I go up with lots of ideas, but

23:49

but never sort of a written out bit.

23:52

And a lot of my material is sort

23:54

of very physical and you can't really practice that until you're

23:57

on stage. Yeah, of course. So like I

23:59

do lots of Super Things That

24:01

solely Evans when I was fourteen and I

24:03

think it. Made some sort of ten in

24:05

my brain where I went. That's what comedy is,

24:07

so. I always use every part my body the

24:09

a cat or. My size as he is

24:11

hop really right that you know get older

24:14

our has I'll have any. can't write to

24:16

us is cussing hair. Is she

24:18

so when I was I'm gonna buy back.

24:20

If you're really should, should have recused himself.

24:22

He's the job but what you think of

24:24

his face? Yeah, Exactly how do it I've got

24:27

there in the last so where i i i

24:29

do a bit about my cat and the my

24:31

job as as. She stretches. And

24:34

the longer the to A was going, the

24:36

longer that stretch was edited. More ridiculous it

24:38

became. And but that you can't type that.

24:41

In your hearts as so weirdly

24:43

spawn. They are a sea Change direction with

24:45

your head is if when they think it's about

24:47

to finish year and then you do another thing

24:49

just briefly slightly that that that is the only

24:51

set the did. You can only learn that by

24:53

people acing on stage. I love to work

24:55

email a sec kind of stuff I

24:57

am. I went to school in south

24:59

Friend and are once on the way

25:01

to school or so. Blue Evans was

25:04

now in one of the the playgrounds.

25:06

He was on a rum and doing

25:08

Martha crazy worker on front of monkey

25:10

bars and things like success and that

25:12

was a real kind of at the

25:14

time are almost doesn't doesn't remove the

25:16

relay ever leave these layers of moved

25:18

into act in a red to in

25:20

a series on how important the physical

25:22

side these and your body keeping your

25:24

body. In a start you turn transform and

25:26

deliver what's needed from around with newly didn't

25:28

things as I who I've just always what's

25:31

his stuff gone out he's a silly man

25:33

during the city south but as exhausted and

25:35

not in our he that a T freedoms

25:37

it to keep limbo A flexible and all

25:40

these different things for the amount of levels

25:42

he would go to see because a who

25:44

it injure himself or pulled a muscle every

25:46

not aware of a So it was really

25:49

interesting to to say that of you think

25:51

of particularly comedian Mark and they ever did.

25:54

you think yeah you said arms about material but but

25:57

he's gonna have a say over now on a to

25:59

make sure i can delivery even,

26:01

which again, that fascinates me. Yeah.

26:03

Well, if I come off after an hour and 20 on

26:05

stage, and

26:08

I don't feel utterly exhausted, I don't feel

26:10

like I've done it right. Yeah. That's not right for

26:12

every stand up. There's plenty of really great comics.

26:14

It's just stand still and talk into a mic,

26:16

but that's not my skill. I got into fitness

26:18

after I stopped touring and it was exactly because of

26:21

that because I was like, all right. I'm now

26:23

in my late 30s. So I was

26:25

doing a 90-minute workout every night. Now, if

26:27

I don't do that, everything is going to

26:29

go to shit. It was

26:31

a horror having to play catch-up, having never

26:33

looked at fitness at all, but not realizing

26:35

that I was keeping in shape because of

26:37

these gigs every night, and it has an

26:39

impact, right? Totally. Well, I want to dig

26:41

more into your growing up in Portsmouth

26:44

and starting out in comedy and things like that. But

26:47

I'm also aware that because I'm just

26:49

a comedy nerd, I'll often focus

26:51

on that completely. I want to

26:53

talk about podcasting, and I want

26:55

to start on the subject we're

26:57

talking on. The difference

27:00

between doing podcast live and doing a

27:02

set, because it is more you're turning

27:04

up and you don't know what's going

27:06

to happen, like more so with a

27:08

live podcast. How do you find

27:11

those? Because you've been doing them recently with Maisie,

27:13

with your big kick energy, and

27:15

you've got one more end of May

27:17

in Bristol, I think. Yeah. We've got Bristol and

27:20

then we're adding a few more. So the

27:22

podcast is about women's

27:24

football specifically. Well, first of all, we

27:26

only really planned to do it for the World Cup last year. The

27:29

idea was that Maisie thought I wasn't into football

27:31

at all. Maisie thought over the space of a

27:34

tournament, she could make me a football fan. Yes. We

27:36

thought that's a funny idea. Yeah. You

27:38

know what Kelly's like. There's no

27:41

point pitching anything. The amount of time

27:43

that it would take for someone to come back to you and

27:45

three heads of department to leave and a commissioner to leave, and

27:47

then someone else to be in charge. When

27:49

you were talking about the beauty of niches on

27:51

social media, I was instantly thinking of that's why

27:53

I love podcasts as well, because you can just

27:55

go, right, no, here's the thing that we want

27:57

to do. Precisely. It will find its audience. I

28:00

don't need to... someone to affirm it before. And

28:03

that's the great thing about podcasting. And so we

28:05

were like, oh, rather than pitching this as a

28:07

thing, or trying to take it to, you know,

28:09

an audio channel, just going, well, Maisie thinks she

28:11

can make me a football fan, let's say, if

28:13

she can. Although I had watched the Euros and

28:15

really enjoyed it, but I hadn't got into it

28:17

properly after that. And Maisie was like, I think

28:19

you'd be a proper football fan. And so over the

28:22

course of the World Cup, we would watch the games,

28:24

and then I would sort of try and explain what

28:26

happened, and I would get more and more into it,

28:28

and I was getting more and more excited. And

28:30

then we got such a great following, that we

28:32

were like, oh, we should do this for the

28:35

WSL, which is the Women's

28:37

Super League, and for all the different sort

28:39

of domestic tournaments. And so

28:41

now it's just a weekly show where we chat about what's

28:43

happened in football that week, whether there's any big news stories,

28:45

anything about women's sports in general,

28:47

we'll do like a recap of the different

28:50

games that have happened, and where people are

28:52

in the league. And then lots

28:54

of people write in, and we get loads of lovely

28:56

stories from people that have played football, or used to play

28:58

football, got in touch because my auntie

29:00

played during the ban in the 1960s, and all

29:02

that sort of stuff, and the history of women's

29:05

football, and stuff that I didn't know

29:07

about at all, I didn't realize there was a 50

29:09

year ban of football, when they only got un-banned, is

29:11

that the word, in the 70s. And

29:14

so Maisie and I were just having loads of fun,

29:16

just a real laugh, and Maisie is probably the person

29:18

that I corpse with the most, we giggle loads, and

29:20

I don't know why, we just absolutely

29:23

fucking lose it. And there's been times when

29:25

we've been doing telly shows together, and we've

29:27

had directors in our areas going, girls, I know

29:29

you're having fun, but actually you really need to

29:31

get this done, because it is like, it's

29:34

the best thing in the world, it's so contagious. It's

29:37

great, I mean it's just

29:39

really, really fun. Just

29:42

tears pouring down our faces. And then we thought, we

29:44

have such a good time together, and we're such good

29:46

mates, why don't we take it on the road? Because

29:49

then what often happens when you've got a

29:51

successful podcast, people go, what's the telly thing?

29:53

Pitch it as a thing. And

29:55

we were kind of like, well if it becomes a

29:57

thing, that would be cool, but on the road we've got...

30:00

autonomy. This is the thing. And

30:02

so it's a show where we play

30:05

games with the audience in the first half. So it's

30:07

loads of crowd work. I'm in the crowd for the whole of,

30:09

for pretty much the whole of the first half talking to

30:11

people. And Maisie's on stage and we're showing

30:13

different things and we're rinsing each other as

30:15

much as we possibly can. Yeah, the

30:17

other day I played Maisie snoring to

30:20

the audience. Her husband has sent me without

30:22

her knowing, you know, stuff like

30:24

that. Just really playful, silly stuff. Oh man,

30:26

we play a game called the nickname game

30:28

where we get, because Maisie and I both

30:30

have nicknames when we're doing the podcast and

30:32

a girl was in the audience and she

30:35

said that her nickname was mortgage. We asked

30:37

why and she said, well, I've got, I've

30:39

got a lazy eye. And so my friends

30:41

say that one of my eyes is fixed and

30:43

the other one is variable. And I

30:47

mean, and every, the

30:51

audience lost their minds and she ends up being

30:53

like a part of the show. You know, we

30:55

keep coming back to mortgage and, you know, she's

30:57

the person that said that it's not like we're

30:59

roasting her. She's like, you know, shared it. So

31:01

she's up for it. And then, and so we

31:03

just really make it feel like it's collaborative with

31:05

the audience, which they, people seem to really love.

31:07

And I think that's the thing with podcasts, it

31:10

feels very personal. Yeah. And that's what makes

31:12

it unique, right? The fact that it's different

31:14

to a comedy tour where you're doing the

31:16

same material every night. And when

31:18

I used to do distraction pieces live, I'd

31:20

sometimes have a surprise guest for half of

31:22

it, but in general, the guest would

31:24

be the audience. And that was kind of the point of

31:26

it that, and rather than just passing the mic in the

31:29

crowd, it was like, cue up at the

31:31

side. If you want to come on and you'll sit down

31:33

and we'll talk for however long it takes. It could be

31:35

one question, but then

31:37

if we get into something really interesting, like in

31:39

Dublin, I once had this

31:42

young lad who's a YouTuber

31:44

with Down syndrome and has lived a far

31:47

more exciting life to me. He's like an

31:49

adventurer, does all this mad stuff. And we

31:51

were like five minutes in and I'm looking

31:53

over at the queue, like Some

31:55

of you might want to sit down because this might be

31:57

the podcast now. The

32:00

Demise insights faggot. That's what makes them

32:02

excitement and unique and a thing as

32:04

as good to have that where you've

32:06

got a structure of the show but

32:08

you've got lack freedom to just yes

32:11

they were guys. And then in the

32:13

second half of the shy out we have

32:15

a professional bowler or I had that ever

32:17

side support us as that we had right

32:19

your daily been a lion s yeah you're

32:22

a winner Will help semifinalists as develop Last

32:24

hour on Friday and we didn't have a

32:26

crowded they lost their minds with this is

32:28

a huge dame since. Apple and then we

32:30

and then we asked support us questions that when

32:32

a moment emphasis on yeah are some my school

32:35

as well as Niger yeah like of apply. We

32:37

had lived in a band that has he been

32:39

a disease in their shit. but then we try

32:41

to ask questions that they don't normally to us

32:43

we're not going to be were either. Awesome! Fossilized

32:45

on Talksport Nikita we want know about Like Your

32:47

Journey insists. If we want to know about you know.

32:49

And it's of a secret interesting to have to.

32:51

This is not said that the women growing up

32:53

as was if her career. Option. If.

32:56

It wasn't going to be something you could

32:58

do for a job you know most is

33:00

in the like like as he was Ellen

33:02

why his in the he was at the

33:04

your eyes he wanted theorists had like was

33:06

I doing Her accountancy qualifications are the same

33:08

thomas things that will put his he didn't

33:11

know with you had a career off to

33:13

some new many wouldn't like you'd make enough

33:15

money. Nice Madness is me. And

33:17

so we try and ask questions that

33:19

are interesting and different and play so

33:21

and just offering something that that we

33:23

didn't quite sick was there from two

33:25

comments either the playfulness and and so

33:28

far all assess the supporters of come

33:30

on the show have loved and of

33:32

said oh yeah other again let me

33:34

know you're with someone again because as

33:36

he insists is very different being and

33:38

she by sports journalist and thing and

33:40

see by. To comics

33:42

and the ah, you

33:44

know, passionate. And so giddy like

33:46

school girls because they're in the presence

33:48

of a line. Us. but

33:51

also again you always gonna be

33:53

coming from a place of excitement

33:55

and of a new love him

33:57

signed him to the thing yes

34:00

Just what you touched upon there is one

34:02

of the most fascinating things that in comedy,

34:04

in music, I'm a big fan of mixed

34:06

martial arts and it always blows my mind

34:10

when I find out how little some of

34:12

these professional athletes are earning, how many other

34:15

jobs they have in their hands. And stuff

34:17

like that. I always remember again, when

34:19

I first went and toured in America and met some

34:21

of my rap heroes who I've got CDs of and

34:23

see that they're playing to 200 or 300 people. And

34:26

I'm like, all right, in my mind, you're the biggest

34:28

thing in the world, but you're maybe not earning

34:30

enough to make a living out of this at the

34:33

moment. That's insane, isn't it? And those things aren't talked

34:35

about because if a journalist brings

34:37

it up, it'll often feel like it's coming

34:39

from a place of criticism. Like when they

34:41

have those, a photo has come

34:44

out of this person who's been breaking

34:46

bad, works in Tesco's or something. Well,

34:48

yes, because all of these industries are

34:50

really unreliable. Because we put

34:52

them on a pedestal from a societal

34:55

point of view, you assume that comes

34:57

with loads of money and loads of

35:00

success. So yeah, it's weird. I

35:02

love those conversations when you get to go, oh

35:04

no, right. And particularly

35:06

with women's football for a long

35:08

time, there wasn't nearly enough support government

35:10

and things like that. So it's like,

35:13

you shouldn't be working, but you have to

35:15

because even now, you know, people,

35:19

me and Maisie were on the train up to Birmingham

35:21

and we were talking about clubs and we were talking

35:23

about what we had coming up and different clubs that

35:25

we were talking about. And we said Aston Villa and

35:27

these guys in front of us all went, and we

35:30

were like, oh, there must be a Villa game today.

35:32

They're all going up. And they were like, you go into the

35:34

match. We were like, oh no. And we were like, we'll

35:36

talk about the women's team anyway. And they were like, oh,

35:38

don't care about the women's team. And you go, well, I

35:40

didn't ask you to care. I think women's football aren't waiting

35:42

for you to be interested. Yeah. You

35:45

know, in the same way that golf isn't waiting

35:47

for me to be interested, but loads

35:49

of people love golf. And I won't deny the

35:51

fact that golf has a massive audience. Your

35:53

reaction to, are you going to the

35:55

Villa game wasn't, I don't care about

35:57

Villa. Yeah, exactly. It's that difference. mentality

36:00

there. And so it does have like loads more support.

36:02

I was at the Arsenal game yesterday and there was 42,000

36:04

people there. And you know, there'll

36:06

be clubs in the premiership aren't getting that in

36:09

the men's game, you know? But so, you

36:11

know, it's still, it is growing, but

36:13

I think it's going to be massive. I mean, it is

36:15

massive in many respects. But just grassroots

36:17

support and stuff where there should

36:20

be more support in grants and

36:22

as I said, government funding

36:25

that there is for bringing

36:28

through the next men's

36:30

England teams

36:33

and legends. There still isn't as much there. But I

36:35

do, it struck me that

36:37

I adore that you approached this like

36:39

a big evil company and just thought,

36:41

right, we're just going to do the

36:43

World Cup and you know, just make

36:45

the world cup. And then you couldn't do

36:48

it because you're actually good people. We're like, no,

36:50

this is actually amazing. We're going to keep doing

36:52

this forever. The plan was just wildly popular. Well,

36:55

we just did it. Well, that's the thing. Maisie

36:57

is the proper, you know, she knows everything

36:59

she's got and she's in, she's into, you

37:01

know, she's watched football growing up, absolutely loves

37:03

it as a professor of Leeds. You know,

37:05

she's really a massive football fan and she

37:07

was right that there was a, that there

37:09

was sort of a fan. Yeah. But inside

37:11

me that I wasn't even aware of. And

37:13

now it's sort of something. And 12 months

37:15

ago, I knew nothing about football. Yeah. And

37:18

now I could tell you like, who's on

37:20

the bench at Man City, you

37:23

know, like it's, it's, it's mad how

37:25

quickly it's become something that I, I love so

37:28

much and I identify so much with. Yeah.

37:30

And, you know, it's only going to get bigger,

37:32

which is really exciting. And when I

37:35

was doing my, my practice, I want to talk

37:37

a little bit about like-minded friends,

37:39

because that was the one that the

37:41

first podcast of yours that I just,

37:43

yeah, I jumped on and loved, but

37:45

I was looking into it and I

37:47

realised that you represent the full

37:49

podcast of spectrum in the

37:52

full spectrum of podcasting the pool podcast

37:54

of spectrum in that was quite a

37:56

thing as well. But the fact that

37:58

you've done a football podcast. and a

38:00

wine podcast. It's the two

38:03

ends of what podcasting is. It's the two

38:05

ends of the podcasting world. And you can

38:07

be on both ends of them. And then

38:09

in the middle, you've got one that's just

38:12

huge chatting with your mate.

38:14

And that's the crux of podcasting, I

38:16

think, at this point, anyway. The main

38:18

podcasts are Pals having a chat. Yeah.

38:20

I mean, we started Like My Dear Friends nine

38:23

years ago this year, so it's been around for

38:25

a long time. And we

38:27

started it. And it's me and Tom Allen,

38:30

who's one of my best friends in the

38:32

world. And we started because we weren't

38:34

that busy, which is mad now.

38:36

I mean, especially for him, like, you know, he's on

38:38

everything and he's absolutely fantastic. He's absolutely killing it. And

38:40

you know, now we're in a stage where every week

38:43

it's like, Oh, no, I've got this and I've got

38:45

this on. Oh, I've got to be there for a

38:47

show. And I'm filming this thing. So when can we

38:49

squeeze in this half an hour? Whereas once upon

38:51

a time we had oodles of

38:53

time to do it every week.

38:55

Yeah. And it's just, I mean,

38:58

it's basically you can hear sort of nine years

39:00

of us documenting our lives from like

39:02

breakups to losing people we love and

39:05

grief and excitement and

39:08

all the different career moments, life moments. And

39:10

it is just two friends catching up and

39:12

people seem to love it. Like people

39:15

really enjoy it. And we don't really

39:17

know what it is. And it's never

39:19

really had a format. And it doesn't

39:21

really have a point other than people

39:23

saying, Oh, Tom always says it's a

39:25

vestige for the lonely. Yeah, we

39:27

should think it's quite good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

39:29

Which we would put ourselves in that

39:31

category as well. But people that are

39:33

just trying to find a bit of

39:36

contact. It's the beautiful

39:38

thing about podcasts is they are in

39:41

your ears. And again, in

39:43

the early days when you guys were

39:45

starting off as well, there was certainly

39:47

a period where there was no one

39:50

really or advertising in podcasts wasn't

39:53

particularly a thing. You couldn't make a lot of money from

39:55

podcasts in the early days. And I remember

39:57

doing a lot of work with a cast to kind of get

40:00

through to sponsors that numbers on radio

40:02

shows aren't the same as numbers on

40:04

podcasts because radio shows are passive listening

40:06

a lot of the time. It's not

40:08

in the background you're doing other things,

40:10

whereas podcasts are destination listens. You're

40:12

putting it on when you have the time. And

40:14

again, that varies as well. There will be points

40:17

that it's just on in the background, but in

40:19

general, you're putting it on to really focus on

40:21

it and have it, you know, with your journey

40:23

or whatever you're doing. And that's a different, it

40:26

means that those numbers are different, but it also

40:28

means that those connections are different and there

40:30

will be people who connect in a different

40:32

way to you through your

40:34

podcasts than they do through your comedy. Oh,

40:37

a hundred percent. And you know, when

40:39

I go on the road, frequently venue

40:41

staff will say to me, your audience

40:44

hasn't come from our mailing list or

40:46

hasn't come from, there's 50%

40:48

of them are brand new to the

40:50

theatre. And lots of people will come

40:52

who've never been to comedy before because they've

40:55

found, and I'm sure it's the same for

40:57

Tom, although he has been doing stand up

40:59

and touring for longer than I have. But

41:01

it is amazing to find those connections because

41:03

then I think also it sort of makes

41:06

my gigs better. So I think people really

41:08

care about what I'm talking about or they

41:10

care about, they're already invested in me.

41:12

And I think because I'm so bloody honest, and

41:14

I do sort of talk about my feelings, and

41:17

I do talk about being quite anxious, and I

41:19

do talk about all these different things, that

41:21

people sort of know what they're getting. So there's

41:24

an energy in the room and there's an

41:26

excitement. And I feel enormously lucky for that

41:28

audience. I fucking love them.

41:30

The podcast audience are always brilliant. And they're

41:32

always so up for it. And they always

41:34

stick around afterwards to say hello. And they

41:37

all, and you know, they make me feel

41:39

like I'm really special. And

41:41

they're just lovely. It just makes me, and it's

41:43

wonderful. It's wonderful because it's a way to connect to

41:45

people that, you know, I'm sure

41:47

you've said it before as well as like, there's

41:49

just no gatekeepers. Yeah. So if

41:51

you're, I mean, as you say, if you're into

41:53

it, you can find it like we said about

41:56

social media, like you will find your crowd and

41:58

it doesn't matter if your crowd is thousands or

42:00

tens of thousands or just hundreds. Yeah. Because that's

42:02

still like a lot of people to be talking

42:04

to. A lot of people to be giving a

42:06

shit about what you're sharing, which is massive.

42:08

It's interesting because it's really

42:10

worth noting that the difference in crowds is

42:12

a really big thing and really noticeable. I

42:14

remember talking

42:17

to James Acaster a lot about the change

42:19

from when people were coming who were, oh,

42:21

we love James Acaster to when people were

42:23

coming and going, oh, that guy on the

42:25

TVs in town tonight,

42:27

let's go and see him. It's a completely

42:30

different vibe and relationship and

42:32

interaction. For sure. That can really

42:34

affect, again, that might sound like,

42:37

yeah, but they're paying a gig as a gig.

42:39

It's like, no, but if that's your life every

42:41

night for several months, then it's got to be

42:43

the right relationship and the right interaction and the

42:45

right engagement. For sure. It

42:47

makes a big old difference. Oh, massive.

42:49

I feel very lucky that the crowds

42:51

that I get are always, I

42:54

think I had one tour show that I didn't enjoy out of the

42:57

80, 70 odd that I did

43:00

last year. Yeah. I like it. It was

43:02

one that I was like, No, I'm

43:04

kidding. No, I'm kidding. I

43:10

don't know that everyone gets that. Yeah. I think

43:12

when you're coming through, you assume that what you

43:14

want is the big telly job and the this

43:16

and the that. But again, I think if then

43:18

what you do on stage isn't that thing that

43:20

you've done on telly, it might be quite a

43:22

different audience. It might not be what you're after.

43:25

And I love live. I really love stand up.

43:27

I was one of the few stand up comedians

43:29

that I know. And to be clear,

43:31

most of my best friends are stand up comedians, but I

43:34

was one of the few comedians I know that during lockdown,

43:36

I really missed stand up. I

43:39

really missed it. And Josh would have kept texting

43:41

me and going, I bet you're missing stand up. I

43:44

know. I really am. Because

43:46

I just love it. I love the live. As

43:48

soon as my tour finished, I like to sit my agent right. When's the

43:50

next one? What makes sense in my diary for me to get

43:52

back out on the road? And I wanted a year to write

43:55

the show. So I feel really proud of it. Because

43:57

that's another thing. And I think that sort of hearts back to my.

44:00

like a sort of working class family, but

44:02

when people come and pay to see me, I'm like,

44:04

oh, it's gotta be good. It's

44:06

gotta be my best. It's gotta be the best that I

44:08

can do. And so I like to

44:10

have as long as possible to write a show and I

44:12

like to really give people their money's worth and do more

44:15

than an hour and give people a night

44:17

out. I want it to be

44:19

worth getting a babysitter. Yeah, or the,

44:21

I mean, the giving is something

44:23

I wanna talk to you about

44:25

because you touched upon the honesty

44:28

in your shows. And again, I

44:30

think in your work in general,

44:32

whether you're writing things or expressing

44:34

opinions online or whatever else or

44:36

on podcasts, honesty and openness on

44:39

things that mean a lot to you is really

44:41

key to who you are. It's one of the

44:43

reasons I said I connect with your work on

44:45

many different mediums, but

44:48

that can also be taxing and

44:50

mentally exhausting and hard. So I

44:52

guess how important is the honesty

44:56

and how do you balance that

44:58

with just living? If

45:01

you know what I mean, with life, pouring

45:03

yourself into a new set can be

45:05

amazing, but control

45:08

over how much you put out there. Yeah,

45:10

do you know what? I'm really happy talking about stuff

45:12

like mental health or stuff that

45:14

I've really struggled with. The thing that I don't

45:16

really talk about is my family. My wife is

45:19

like, my wife and our daughter, they didn't sign

45:21

up to be on stage. And

45:23

whilst I might tell a story about my

45:25

family life, it will always be really about

45:27

my reaction to a thing or me not

45:31

being able to deal with something or me being

45:33

an idiot. That's what it is about, it's always

45:35

about me. And so actually

45:38

talking about ADHD or talking

45:40

about anxiety, I've

45:43

actually found it really freeing because

45:45

I think that when I was sort

45:47

of embarrassed or ashamed of that or

45:49

talking about being like, I'm severely dyslexic

45:51

and it always made me feel really

45:53

stupid and talking about

45:55

that stuff, I find actually

45:58

is an first part of it. I'm

46:01

very aware that we comedians are going through a phase

46:03

of really talking about our mental health. So I know

46:05

I'm not like, I'm really not breaking

46:07

the mold by doing this. I'm well aware. Sure, sure,

46:09

sure, sure. I know that.

46:12

But talking about it has made me feel

46:14

kind of better about it all. And

46:16

there's some stuff that I keep back and I won't talk about

46:19

specifics about my daughter's life. And

46:21

I won't talk about specifics of my

46:23

wife's life. She's got a very normal job. She's

46:26

just happened to fall in love with the show off.

46:28

That's not her fault. With

46:31

someone that absolutely needs the strangers to

46:33

clap at their voice occasionally. So

46:35

that's how I keep the distance. That's

46:38

how I keep some back for me. The family stuff, not

46:41

for sort of public consumption, I

46:43

guess, for want of a better word. I feel

46:45

less beautiful though. I think that's the key. I

46:47

think I've always found the key

46:50

to being able to be almost

46:52

uncomfortably open is knowing where your boundaries

46:54

and privacy and lines are. It's like

46:57

I'll be so open about this. But

46:59

again, similarly, I've always had that with

47:01

relationships and things like that. It's always

47:03

like, well, that's no one's business. I'll

47:07

talk about all the things that have broken my heart and

47:09

the different struggles I've had and things like that. No,

47:11

if something's actually happening now, I don't

47:14

want any outside negative effects on that.

47:16

Yeah, totally. And once you put it out there

47:19

in the world now, the

47:21

internet remembers forever. And

47:23

there's definitely bits of material that I look back and go, oh,

47:25

I didn't love that. I'm really pleased I didn't do that on

47:27

telly. I'm pleased that

47:29

that bit never made it to the

47:31

internet because it just isn't

47:33

that good. Even though I'm sure they clicked online of

47:36

me being very new and not really

47:38

knowing what I'm doing. And so I think

47:40

that's it. But with regards to the anxiety

47:42

stuff, the mental

47:44

health stuff, I feel like comics

47:46

are sort of, I think we're kind of meant to

47:48

be brutally honest. And someone called me really early on

47:50

in my career, someone from The Guardian

47:53

called me a confessional comedian. And I

47:55

thought, yeah, I like that. I like that it's kind

47:57

of confessional. And there is a line,

47:59

but I don't know. that people would know that because

48:01

it feels like I'm giving you everything. Yeah. But

48:03

this little bit is private because that's not about

48:05

me. That's not just me. Everything is just about

48:07

me. I'm willing to share, I guess. But that means that

48:10

means you're doing it really well. Again, I have a

48:12

similar thing that I'll new people will get to know

48:14

me and be surprised at how private I am because

48:16

they've heard my work. I thought, but you just or

48:18

heard the podcast. Like you pour everything out. It's like,

48:20

oh, no, I mean, I'm holding the jug. I

48:23

know exactly how much is being poured out here.

48:26

And that's why it's comfortable. If

48:28

it was just flooding out, it would be

48:30

incredibly uncomfortable. But there's been times

48:32

when I've worked out, when I've been working

48:34

out how to talk about a subject on

48:36

stage, talking about heartbreak or talking about grief.

48:38

And when I've not quite got it right. And it's never

48:41

been at a stage where people have been filming it or

48:43

anything like that. But when I'm doing new stuff and

48:45

I think audiences don't I think there's a there is

48:47

a line for an audience as well. But

48:50

I go, oh, I don't think you're comfortable with

48:52

sharing this. Or I don't think that I feel

48:54

worried for you. Yeah. I've had that

48:56

before. I've been at comedy shows before and

48:58

film. I always remember. And again, it's one

49:00

he's talked about. I remember going to see

49:02

Doug Stanhope and it was just after his his

49:04

mum had died. And part of his thing is

49:07

that it's always on the edge of is this

49:10

is this someone about to break? But it was

49:12

a really it was a beautiful gig, but it

49:14

was a really uncomfortable and strange one because you

49:16

are like, oh, right. This feels like you should

49:18

maybe have canceled the gig. Can they?

49:20

Maybe you shouldn't be here. Yeah. And

49:22

you never want an audience to feel like

49:24

that. So I think that it's it's

49:26

a two way thing. Yeah. I want I need

49:28

to be comfortable enough with what I'm talking about

49:31

that they're comfortable to. Yeah. I love that,

49:33

though. I love that. I love when Marilynne

49:35

Robertson's most recent show or their last

49:38

show at the Fringe, it

49:40

was one of them. It was like talking about

49:42

stuff that they now had enough distance from that

49:44

they could talk about. And again, you see that

49:46

with a lot of amazing comedians

49:48

that they'll get quite

49:50

big and you won't know a key part of their

49:52

story and their life and their journey. And then when

49:55

that show comes out, it's because it's at the right

49:57

time. It's when you're comfortable to talk about it. All.

50:01

Are important in a couple toffees. Really

50:03

tempting to to her as she says

50:05

she spoke up secretly says he says

50:07

it A say that we want to

50:09

your best friends is really tempting to

50:11

talk about the immediate thing that's happening

50:13

when you may be aren't actually readied survives

50:15

If you were right into a say

50:17

you'd go there the i'm not ready

50:19

for the actually but cause it's a

50:21

casual conversation you might puts examined my

50:23

for the funny. Stuff. And like

50:26

minded friends that now I wouldn't did. I

50:28

guess now I wouldn't say that.

50:30

Never that more trains ends. Editing

50:33

As I got here and. I

50:35

mean like mentally at a Cs and states are

50:37

completely the yeah I see that is harder but

50:39

then I think is difference I think put custodians

50:41

ah I listen to the different last a subtle

50:43

accounts you are things he said something. That's.

50:47

Certainly an audience is like my friends

50:49

illicit every week I saying is not

50:51

so I wouldn't be so worried about

50:53

slight say I'd say that again. I

50:55

feel just goddess of inbuilt. Now about

50:57

my must have. Hi nice! But.

50:59

Or Tom and Autumn guides una sola

51:01

so obsessed with are you rather than

51:04

he is a legal. Actually, you know what?

51:06

thanks slugging that maybe not going to a

51:08

different way. You can also do not searching

51:10

for a loss and I think that's the

51:12

same sometimes of comedy especially to to them

51:15

or something very bleak. That's when if you're

51:17

like really scrambling for a law he might.

51:19

Go extra dark or extra Blake

51:21

yeah to get lighter on guard

51:23

last year. which I did

51:25

not read it kind of comedy. the I

51:28

do bet that you may see people doing

51:30

that see and as a precision up for

51:32

two stitches even have I laugh tracks and

51:34

on the podcast and I mean thank god

51:36

because of that at it as a way

51:39

that funny sometimes it's really sad sensors is

51:41

really serious and hook you know extensively about

51:43

with of the eating your. Lunch on your

51:45

own of school. Has impacted allies to the

51:47

point where I now have that that I see

51:50

the light in the site is that people really

51:52

seem to. Like I said, I. I

51:54

I want to kind of

51:56

rapoport just quickly asking me

51:58

how was bicycle. Can.

52:00

We don't know the on a jury rights. It

52:02

was an absolute shame of say throat when they

52:04

asked me. Yeah. I love the

52:07

size. Yeah so. I was so is

52:09

a genuine san you and I looked

52:11

like I've won a prize to be

52:13

that the whole way through and I

52:15

sat like I said it's he will

52:17

have Les Paul improve Lovelace I was

52:19

summoned. I just. Adore you know. Filled

52:21

with a lovely. As well yet isolates

52:23

the zebra did it with daddy like and

52:26

I somebody say and Daves it offers a

52:28

Daves I know and I to admit for

52:30

had met Gabi the for a joy and

52:32

he the whole experience was like gorgeous of

52:35

like can't believe this is work. Do

52:37

you always open them? It is not what

52:39

syncopated his mercy bet on the farm and

52:41

markets apart papa. To that will always

52:43

have something for and of the oven or am

52:45

I was the color of your marine to seize

52:48

was just. Too. Beautiful. just

52:50

kiss or when I was absolutely shifts

52:52

Case will wrap things up there is

52:54

been a public place it's as a

52:56

token to you says gonna be a

52:58

new to make soup but they'll be

53:00

work in progress stuff yeah throughout the

53:03

year and a better right. I'm

53:05

announcing of the time employment tell people been

53:07

doing a book that the next year as

53:09

well. Success in size Yeah you know I'm

53:11

sure you've got a necessity of athletic is

53:13

who I am. Size of his videos online.

53:15

Is as down by any that eyes He

53:18

died. Yesterday. That side as

53:20

well as a specific events that are

53:22

you er recommends just putting your Xu

53:24

Xian i'm in the podcast app that

53:26

you listened to the So Now and

53:28

and Silly New Boots cuz yer women.

53:30

Bits and Bobs yes as this involves the

53:32

and us that assad of this of Lcs

53:35

summer the my sister. is losing them as

53:37

lovely say i'm sorry it took so long

53:39

as a said it was it whenever you're

53:41

out it rarely i ever hear our messy

53:43

side the weed thing is the susie hasn't

53:45

been on are addicted genuinely out to check

53:48

quickly because of ragnar about a lot of

53:50

guess some i just forgot one here but

53:52

it's been a pleasure they'll be more painful

53:54

as you'd forgotten me this you physicists possessing

53:56

not books the being forgotten about my second

53:58

time or i did a post just this

54:01

week asking what guest people

54:04

would like to see me have on. And I

54:06

forget every time I do one of them, that

54:08

it's just me spending all day going, oh, they've

54:10

been on. Oh, they've been on. Oh, they've been

54:12

on. Literally every response is someone because I've been

54:14

doing it for almost 10 years now,

54:16

one a week. It's like, oh, they've all been on.

54:19

Oh my God. Yeah, a lot. A lot of people.

54:21

It's a lot, but it's been a pleasure. I'm glad

54:23

we made it happen. And yeah, I look forward to

54:26

catching your new material. Thank you very

54:28

much. You've

54:45

been listening to Scroobius

54:47

Pitts Distraction Pieces. There

54:50

we go. That was Susie Ruffell.

54:53

Following all the places. Listen to

54:56

all the podcasts. Susie's

54:58

a podcast icon. I'd go as far

55:00

as to say we didn't even talk

55:02

about their kind of interview podcast that

55:05

they did, which was, which

55:07

is fantastic. So the

55:09

ones you need to listen

55:11

to a like-minded friends, but

55:14

with Tom Allen. There's

55:20

out with Susie Ruffell. Delete

55:22

that Paul's buddy piece or leave it in. I just

55:24

drew a blank. Leave

55:26

it in. Let the people know that I am fallible. Let

55:29

the people know I am fallible. There's

55:31

out with Susie

55:33

Ruffell. There's Wine Times

55:36

and there's Big Kick Energy. That's

55:38

four podcasts that you might not already be

55:41

listened to that might appeal. And the breadth

55:43

of them is wondrous. So yeah, I think

55:45

you enjoy it. I'll be

55:48

back next week with another glorious

55:50

guest. Until then, stay

55:52

safe and stay sane. Tada.

56:02

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style.