Amanda Lieb and Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom are unique in having both donated bone marrow to cancer patients twice. Amanda donated to a stranger who she was matched with through the national registry. Sharon donated to her sister and then the second time to a stranger through the registry. In this conversation they compare their experiences.

Mentioned in this episode:

1. Be The Match Donor Registry
2. Do Good, Be Good Facebook Page
3. Do Good, Be Good website

00:03 Speaker 1: This is Do Good, BeGood, the show about helpful people and the challenges they face in trying todo good. Your host is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom, a career do-gooder who also lovescraft beer and a good hard tackle in rugby. Sharon speaks to everyday peopleabout why they do good and what it means to be good.

00:24 Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom: Hi,everyone. I’m your host, Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom. Long-time listeners of thisshow will know that I donated my bone marrow in 2018 to a stranger through BeThe Match. In fact, I promised to tell that story here on the podcast, I talkedabout it over a few different episodes, but I never actually did. That was overa year ago, and what you don’t know is that I tried. I recorded several times,where I tried to record my own story of what it was like to donate my bonemarrow. The thing is, it turns out, it was really hard, both donating andthinking back and trying to tell that story. I would get really emotional. Iwould find it very difficult when I would sit down to record. So, I had to putit to the side and wait. But now you get to know at least part of my story,thanks to today’s guest, Amanda Leib.

01:28 ST: Amanda reached out to meafter a reporter interviewed me about my story of donating in our local paper.Amanda is a doctor, and she works on the Navajo Nation just north of here. Shereached out to me because she and I actually share a very unique experience. Wehave both donated twice. You’ll get to understand how and why during thisepisode. I will make a quick cautionary note. As I mention in the episode, I’mactually a fainter. I have fainted lots of times in my life, and at certaintimes, I was very prone to fainting any time I would listen to anythingmedical. So, from my own experience, let me tell you that today’s episode isgoing to include some medical talk. And if you are a fainter like me, if youhave the Tewksbury curse, as we say, then do not listen to this episode whiledriving or operating heavy machinery. Please use caution. With that said, Ihope you enjoy our conversation.

02:34 Amanda Leib: My family alwayssaid, “Oh, you know, she’s gonna be a doctor.” There was somethingabout the way I related to people or what I was interested in or the way I cutchicken up. I don’t know what it was. But they always said, “She’s gonnabe a doctor.” And in college, I kind of rebelled against that. Peoplealways thought that’s what I was gonna do, and I didn’t wanna be pushed intosomething that other people… That was someone else’s idea. So, after college,I did research for a couple of years. I was a lab tech in a research lab and thoughtabout things, and then realized it was what I wanted to do. So then I appliedto medical school, and the rest is the usual path.

03:19 ST: Was there a piece alongthe way where it was just completely different than you thought it was gonnabe?

03:26 AL: Residency was really hard.I did my residency before they had the new laws where they limited things to 80hours a week. And I always thought of myself as a very compassionate person,and it’s probably one of the reasons I wanted to go into medicine. And my hourswere just so brutal in residency, like 120 hours a week. And most of the time Iwas in the hospital, there was no sleep involved, so you’re just so tired andbeaten down. I didn’t think I was a very compassionate person. And I think, whenI finished my residency, there was that feeling of, “Did I make a mistakegoing into this? This was not what I bargained for, and I’m not really veryhappy.” And then started work and remembered what I loved about it all,and it felt like the right thing.

04:19 ST: I asked Amanda how sheended up on the bone marrow registry.

04:23 AL: When I started in TubaCity… It wasn’t long after I started in Tuba City. They had a bone marrowdrive at the hospital in the reservation because there was a child who needed abone marrow, a Navajo child who needed a bone marrow donation, and there werevery few Navajo or Native American donors in the registry. They didn’t have amatch, and they were trying to expand the registry and find a match for thischild. And so a lot of the people who worked at the hospital signed up. Peoplewho worked in the hospital that were non-Native also signed up for theregistry. I don’t know what became of that child, and I had totally forgottenthat I had ever signed up for this registry until about nine years later. I gota letter from the bone marrow registry saying that I was a preliminary matchfor somebody and would I be interested in going further into the process tofind out if I could be a match, and was I interested in being a donor.

05:24 ST: I also signed up at adrive that was happening, in my case, at NAU. I did have personal history withit, but I hadn’t actually been on the registry because my personal history wasdonating when I was 2 years old. And I had just made an assumption that if youhad done it once, you couldn’t do it again. And so I was always saying,“This is a great thing, other people should sign up for theregistry.” I think I actually said that. I was so excited to see thetable, and I went up to the woman who was recruiting, and I was like, “I’mso glad you’re doing this, and this was really important in my family’slife.” And she’s like, “Well, are you on the registry?” I waslike, “I don’t think I’m allowed to be on the registry ’cause I’ve alreadydonated.” She was like, “Oh, no, that’s not the case at all. Youcould definitely be on the registry and you can donate more than once, and it’snot a big deal.” So, I, too, I signed up and then didn’t hear anything forseven years, I think, in my case. But, yeah, I think you don’t generally getsome form of ambiguous contact that’s like, “You might be a matchpossibly.” And you start on the…

06:25 AL: “Are youinterested?” And then if you respond that you are, then you go through aless involved preliminary interview and then some more blood draw, and thenvery extensive interviews, and very extensive informed consent process. Theinformed consent process was hours long. I’m a physician and I do informedconsent for people for surgeries all the time, and it’s not hours long.

06:56 ST: It was hours long in mycase, too, and it felt like it happened three times hours long.

07:02 AL: Yeah.

07:03 ST: When you got that initialscreening call or contact, did it immediately all come back as to what this wasand you thought, “Oh, yeah, now it’s really happening and I’m ready togo.” Or were there any concerns that came up or questions?

07:19 AL: I wouldn’t say there wereconcerns or questions. You get the letter, and you’re like, “Why am Igetting something from this bone marrow registry?” or whatever. And thenthe little light bulb goes on and you remember, “Oh, yeah, way back when Idid this.” I was actually excited and happy to be able to go forward withthe process and help. And there was actually somebody else from the hospitalwho matched for someone else and decided not to. And I thought that was reallyinteresting, too. She was just at a different point in her life, and it didn’tfeel right to her, but it just felt like, “Wow, this is great. I can dosomething for someone.”

07:56 ST: I know, after you gothrough some of those phone calls and some of the health history and that kindof screening part of it, then, like you said, you do all the blood tests andthe informed consent, and you get a ton of information about what you’re aboutto go through and what’s involved and what the risks are. Being that you areand were a doctor, was there anything that surprised you? Did you feel like youalready understood all of that?

08:24 AL: When I matched, what theywanted me… They gave me a choice, but what their preference was to be a stemcell donor rather than a bone marrow donor initially. And I guess thatsurprised me. Not dealing with this stuff as an obstetrician, I didn’t knowthat that was the state of the art or what the preference was. And that waspretty involved. It involved a lot of medications, and then they talk about thepossible long-term risk of leukemia or other things, which I understood wasprobably pretty small. I think at some point you realize, “Hmm, this isnot a risk-free procedure for me either.” And that was probably a littleeye-opening.

09:08 ST: Yeah. I remember alsobeing a little… It being a little eye opening. I’m probably on the absoluteopposite end of the spectrum, which is that I faint really easily and so Inever like to know the details of anything medical. And I had purposely skimmedthe fine print but not read anything carefully. And then you get to a pointwhere they really want you to know what this is entailing and so you cannotjust avoid knowing. And I got to a point where I was like, “Oh, I finallyreally know what’s actually gonna happen.” And it is more involved than Ithought. And there are more risks to me, or there’s going to be more impact tomy health and my life than I might have anticipated.

09:50 AL: And then once I wentthrough it, there was a definite impact and I don’t think I quite expectedthat. It’s funny, the thing that scared me the most with the peripheral stemcell donation was, they said, “Most of the time, we put in… Especiallyin women, smaller women, we put in a central line.” I don’t know why. Butthat, in particular, I was just so apprehensive about that. That was the thingI was the most nervous about. I don’t know why. We put in central lines all thetime, and in the end, they put in the central line and it wasn’t as bad as Ithought. But, for whatever reason, that was the scariest thing for me. Therewere probably other things I should have been more scared of, but that was it.

10:34 ST: Yeah. It’s funny becauseI’m saying this now and I’m like, “I’m gonna really make sure that I don’tfaint in the process of interviewing you.” But I’ve gotten a little bitmore accustomed to it from writing about it myself and just dealing with it. Yeah,I actually liken it… I’ve been writing about it lately, and I liken it to thefact that I got into mountaineering when I was a teenager. And I remember Iended up on this graduation trip to Mount Rainier.

11:04 AL: Oh, wow.

11:04 ST: And it was amazing and fantastic.But up until then, I had hiked on snowpack. But I had not done any actualmountaineering in which you rope up, and you’re going through crevasses andstuff. And we ended up in this summit hut at the top… Not at the top, but atthe point at which you take off for the real summit. And we were gonna have anAlpine start at 4:00 AM and this whole thing. And they’re giving us avalanchebeacons and helmets. And they’re doing the safety talk while we’re already upthere at the summit hut. We’ve made it that far. And then the guides are like,“Here’s what to expect,” sort of their own informed consentproceeding. And I remember just being like, “How did I get to this pointwithout realizing that that’s what I’m about to go through?”

12:01 ST: And at that time, when Iwas 18 and on Mount Rainier, I actually told the guide, I was like, “I’mnot gonna do it. I’m gonna wait here for you guys and then I’ll hikedown.” And so I thought about how, in the bone marrow process, I had kindof a similar reaction to thinking, “Wow, I’m really far in this process,and I really didn’t realize what I was getting myself into.” But I didn’thave the reaction of, “And now I want out.” It was more like,“Okay, what support am I gonna need? What am I gonna need to prepare becausethis is more involved than I thought it was gonna be?”

12:41 AL: Yeah. For me, there wasthis point where I knew the time sequence of things, and I knew when myrecipient was gonna go through the chemotherapy and radiation to wipe out theirbone marrow awaiting my cells which had to happen, I don’t remember, 10 days orsomething before I donated, and they flew the cells to them. And I was like,“Oh, my God, this is the biggest responsibility I’ve ever had in my entirelife. If anything happens to me, this person is gonna die.” It was reallyan overwhelming feeling. We went to Telluride for spring break. I skied reallycarefully, and I thought, “What if we get in a car accident on the wayback?” It was just this feeling of responsibility that I’m a wife, I’m amother of three children, I’m a physician. And I essentially hold people’s lifein my hands on a regular basis, but I never have felt such a sense ofresponsibility to anybody before. And I can’t imagine ever feeling that wayagain.

13:45 ST: A hundred percenteverything you just said. [chuckle] I resonate with so fully. And I rememberjust… I was trying to work out every day to stay in good health. And for me,it was in the winter, and everyone is getting sick around me and I’m trying tostay healthy.

14:02 AL: Washing my hands likecrazy, like, “What if I got sick?” Yeah.

14:06 ST: Yeah. And I would be inthe middle of a workout… And sometimes I just have this overwhelming sense ofthat connection to the recipient, even though it hadn’t happened yet. But inthose 10 days leading up to it, when I knew that their life was inextricablytied to mine. And I would just think about them regularly or I’d like… It wasmore visceral. It wasn’t even thinking about them. It was like I would justfeel that connection.

14:31 AL: Yeah. And this persondidn’t know anything about me, but they had to put this unbelievable amount oftrust in me. Because they tell you, “You can back out at any point. Wejust want you to know there is a point where there will be these consequences,but you always have the right to back out.” And you’re like, “Wow, Icould never back out.”

14:56 ST: Yeah. Was there anythingthat happened during that time? You mentioned going on that trip, but…

15:01 AL: No, there wasn’t, and Iwas very grateful. But you just worried about every little thing. I’m not atotal worrywart, but, boy, you just, “What if I slip on the ice? What if Iget a cold? What if? What if? What if?”

[music]

15:20 ST: I hope you’re enjoying ourconversation. I’m just jumping in to remind you that it is always free tosubscribe to Do Good, Be Good in your podcast app of choice. When yousubscribe, it allows you to get each episode as soon as it is released so younever miss a story. Also, as we move forward into 2020, I’m open to ideas fornew guests to interview on the show. If you have an idea, contact me [email protected]. That’s [email protected]. Now, back to myconversation with Amanda.

15:57 ST: I didn’t have thatprocedure, so I’m curious in term… You said that it did have an effect. Idon’t know what the words you used were, but it was more involved maybe. Howmuch of an impact was that? What kind of recovery is involved?

16:15 AL: It was just mainlyfatigue. The medication they give you ahead of time boosts your bone marrow, soyou literally feel all your bones aching, ’cause that’s where the bone marrowis made, and you feel like you have the flu, your whole body aches. And thenyou go down and do the procedure, and I guess it’s a hemodialysis kind ofmachine. Your blood leaves your body. Tell me if I should stop, if you’refeeling faint.

[chuckle]

16:39 ST: I’ll let you know.

16:41 AL: And they filter out thestem cells, and then they return it to your body. And they anti-coagulate yourblood. I guess there are some chemicals that are going back through. And it wasa long day, and we got a late start. They had some meetings, so it took them…They were delayed in putting in the central line, which was actually a big dealbecause the person who is collecting the cells had to get on a flight withthem, an international flight. They had to be at the airport at a certain time,so the delay was a really big deal, and there is just so fast they can go.

17:15 AL: And then afterwards, I justremember being more exhausted than I can ever remember in my entire life. Westayed at a hotel in Phoenix that night. I had this huge bandage on my neckfrom where they took out the central line. It was very hot in Phoenix. It waslike 100 degrees at 8 o’clock at night when we finally got back to the hotel.My husband dropped me off at the entrance to the hotel and then went to parkthe car, and he was gonna bring all the stuff in. Our room was at the end ofthe hall, and somebody had been holding the elevator or something. I had towalk up the stairs to the room. And I just remember he wasn’t there yet, and Ijust remember thinking, “I’m not gonna make it to the end of the hall. I’mjust gonna sit down here in the hall and wait for him. I just don’t think I canmake it.” I’m a fairly fit person, but I was that tired. It was just soexhausting.

18:07 ST: And that’s really theanemia, right?

18:09 AL: I don’t think I was anemic from that procedure, ’cause they were only taking out the stem cells. It was just something about the whole procedure that was so exhausting. And then I just remember we ordered room service that night. I remember asking, “Could you just send me some chicken soup and a grilled cheese sandwich?” I just needed some comfort food. And they were really nice, and they did. But it was very exhausting. When I did the bone marrow donation, I probably lost more than a liter of blood with that whole procedure, and I was pretty anemic. And that was physically more demanding to recover from, for sure.

18:47 ST: Yeah. Mine was 1.4 liters.

18:49 AL: Yeah. I didn’t ask in theend, but, yeah, it was a lot. And I remember, my back was literally the deepestpurple I have ever seen. I’ve never seen a bruise look like that, and it was mywhole lower back. And instead of being convex, it was concave, it was hideous.

[chuckle]

19:10 ST: Well, I don’t rememberthat, but I don’t know that I could even look in the mirror, so I don’t know.

19:12 AL: Yeah. No, this wasshocking.

19:12 ST: I still have the marksthough.

19:12 AL: Yeah, I have some littlescars.

19:12 ST: I asked Amanda how sheended up donating a second time.

19:12 AL: What happened was, thefirst time I did it, it was the peripheral stem cells. When the Regional Centerwas in Phoenix, they were… The woman I dealt with, whoever, my coordinator orwhatever, was great. She just really was so into the whole thing and reallykept me informed of things. And so I would get a little update from herperiodically, how my person was doing, my recipient was doing. And he did notdo well after the stem cell, it didn’t fully engraft, and he had a lot ofcomplications and illnesses and everything. And so they asked me a few monthslater if I would be willing to do the bone marrow actually, and that’s how Icame to do both for the same person. After I did that, it wasn’t long afterthat that they moved the regional center to California, and then I never gotany more information. I know he had had a very rocky time and then I gave himthe second… The bone marrow, and I didn’t hear too much after that, so I haveno idea what his ultimate fate was or how he did.

20:33 ST: Yeah. To this day, I’venot heard a single word about the recipient, so I don’t have a single update.

20:38 AL: And that’s interesting,’cause I will never know anything more about my recipient, but the person atthat center was great about updating me every few months.

20:47 ST: Yeah. I checked in aboutseven months afterwards, and she said there weren’t any updates yet that shecould share, and to check in at a year to find out. So, I’m waiting. [chuckle]What felt different the second time around?

21:04 AL: Well again, they ask you,“You don’t have to do this. Are you willing to do this?” And I said Iwas. I felt like I had gone down this road and I… I don’t wanna say I feltobligated. I wanted to continue to do everything I could for this person. Ifelt really bad that they had had complications and hadn’t fully engrafted. Youcan’t help but not feel some sense of responsibility even. I was like,“Okay, whatever we have to do, let’s go ahead and do it.” I felt likethe actual bone marrow donation was certainly a harder procedure to go through.

21:41 ST: For me… And I imagine itmight be similar because you had a similar extensiveness of how much they hadto take and stuff. For me, they said, “The recovery might take up to sixweeks, particularly for the anemia, and have the regeneration of the bonemarrow, so that you don’t feel so tired anymore and stuff.” And for me, ittook the full six weeks until I was back to my same level of activity asbefore. The first few weeks were more the intense, and getting over the pain orbending or stuff like that. But, yeah, getting over the anemia was definitelylike a full six-week process for me.

22:18 AL: Yeah. My friends spoiledme. They made me red meat, chocolate, red wine. People were really… Afterthat, everybody knew, and people really spoiled me because of it, which wasnice.

22:32 ST: Yeah. One kind of weirdside note is that I had been on a diet the year before, getting selected as abone marrow donor, and I was two pounds away from my goal weight. Leading up tothe procedure, they said, “Try to build up your iron levels, eat red meatand chocolate and things like that.” And so I gave up the diet and I waslike, “I’m just gonna eat whatever I need to eat.” And then inrecovery I really needed the salty food, so suddenly I’m eating potato chips,which I don’t normally eat, and all of the salty stuff, and I gained 7 poundsin the recovery. Though my friend was pleased to remind me that they took 1.2liters of bone marrow, so at some point in the middle of the procedure, I hadreached my goal weight.

[laughter]

23:20 ST: I was like, “Yeah,that’s probably true.” And for me, actually going through the processhelped cure me of the obsession over this intangible level of health that Ithink I was seeking by losing weight. Because I remember looking in the mirrorthe night before I went in for the procedure, and I completely saw myself in adifferent way. It was like before I had seen, “I need to lose weight, Ineed to do this, I need to do that,” and then suddenly I looked in themirror and I was like, “I am a healthy strong individual. I just passed aphysical with flying colors, where they were like, ‘You’re perfect, you areexactly what we need.'” It just was interesting. I was like, “Wow,what a mind shift,” to go from, “Oh, I gotta fix this or fix thatwith my health or with how I look,” and then to be like, “No,actually, you’re perfect. You are just what we need.” And now you’re aboutto have all of that taken away. [chuckle] I mean, not all of that taken away,but you’re about to go from what is actually truly healthy to needing to bepushed around in a wheelchair and be in the hospital and everything else. Yeah,I think partly it was just I had been so weirdly lucky up to that point. I hadonly been in the hospital once before then.

24:40 AL: Did you have to stay over?

24:41 ST: I stayed one night.

24:43 AL: Okay. I did not, butprobably should have.

[chuckle]

24:47 ST: Yeah. They even releasedme before they probably should have. They said I would have to walk to thebathroom before I could be released. And that definitely was not true, that didnot happen.

24:55 AL: Yeah, I remember… Firstof all, funny thing, I had the meanest recovery room nurse I’ve everencountered. She was so mean, she was so mean to me. I think my procedure tooklonger, and she wanted to go home, and I was not meeting my milestones the wayshe expected, and it was just gonna take longer. And the other person who hadtheir bone marrow donation probably after me had already gone home, and shejust… I just didn’t wanna eat anything, and I had to eat something. And myblood pressure was really low, and she was annoyed about that. And it got tothe point where I just wanted to go. They put in an epidural, I couldn’t pee, Iwas dizzy, and my blood pressure was super low. And I’d see her coming, and I’dstart pumping my arm so that my blood pressure would be a little higher. And Iwent into the bathroom, and I pressed on my stomach to be able to pee, and Iwas like, “Okay, I can go,” and she wouldn’t give me pain medicineuntil I had eaten something, so I was in pain. And then we’d have to fill thepain medicine prescription afterwards. It was just… It’s funny, it was likesuch a… It was just a good thing to do, and you’d think that people wouldtreat you nicely, and I’ve never encountered such a mean person in my wholecareer.

26:20 ST: Was the place you weredoing it at a dedicated bone marrow center?

26:23 AL: Yes.

26:24 ST: Wow, that’s weird.

26:25 AL: I know. I think she wasjust annoyed ’cause she wanted to go home, and the other guy who had had hisprocedure done after me did so much better. [chuckle] And then I remember mybandage that they had put on my back after the procedure was absolutely soaked.There was so much blood and stuff on it, and she wouldn’t change it. I was inthis wet… It’s funny. The whole post-procedure thing was terrible. [chuckle]You did this nice thing, and you’d think people will treat you nicely, and itwas just… That was awful. But then we went back to the hotel for the night…And I know enough about medicine to know if I needed to go back in or whatever.I didn’t feel uncomfortable with that. And we spent the night, and then wenthome. And then I’m surrounded by my physician and nurse friends, and they alldoted on me. And it was all okay. It was just that couple of hours in therecovery room.

[chuckle]

27:23 ST: No, I had a long time inthe recovery room. My procedure ended in the afternoon, I think, and I stayedthe whole night. I was there more than 24 hours actually, because they weren’table to take an auto unit. They had told me when I came for the physical thatone thing they like to do is take a unit of blood so that they could give you atransfusion of your own blood afterwards, if you needed it.

27:48 AL: But your procedure was soquick after your… I can’t imagine that you could have regenerated your bloodin time.

27:54 ST: Right. So, they werealready debating, “Is there even enough time for us to do this?” Andthen I was late, and so there wasn’t even enough time before I had to fly outto go back home. So, I got out of it and I was really glad I got out of it,’cause I’m afraid of having blood draws, and I really was already freaked outabout that. But they almost had to give me a blood transfusion the next day,because it was so low, and I was so anemic, and my blood pressure was so low,and all kinds of issues. Luckily, I managed to get out of it. I’m curious aboutthe reaction you’ve gotten from other people.

28:33 AL: Yeah. I think surprise andadmiration and, “Wow, that’s really cool.” And some people are like,“Wow, I wish I had matched so I could have done it.” And others werelike, “Well, good for you. I don’t think I could have done that.”

28:47 ST: I’m always surprised bypeople who say… Well, I’ll say I’m surprised by people who say, “I nevercould have done that.”

28:53 AL: Yeah, I am, too.

28:55 ST: Particularly because ofthe people who tell me that. I have someone who said, “I could never havedone that.” And she works with refugee women who are survivors of sexualassault, and goes into refugee camps and helps them. And I’m like, “Wait,what?” It’s not that she’s afraid of doing hard things that take risks,or… And there’s plenty of times that I say “no.” [chuckle] And yetfor this, it never was something that I…

29:27 AL: Right. I never hesitated.

29:30 ST: Yeah, neither did I. Iwonder if part of it is just that it is… And I don’t think people realizethat it is such a… Not a once in a lifetime, but almost once in a lifetime. Imean, you are that person’s match.

29:47 AL: Right. And they might nothave another one.

29:47 ST: Yeah. I asked Amanda what,for her, was the hardest part about donating bone marrow to a stranger.

29:54 AL: It’s hard not knowing and,for me, knowing I’ll never know.

29:58 ST: The podcast is called DoGood, Be Good. What do you think it means to you to be good?

30:05 AL: Certainly doing somethinglike this, without asking anything in return, just to help somebody. I believein the inherent goodness of people, that given the opportunity to do somethingto help someone else, most people would do it.

30:21 ST: Well, now you know part ofthe story. Keep listening to Do Good, Be Good. I promise that one day I willshare my full story, with all of its twist and turns, many of which I did notget into on today’s episode. During my interview with Amanda, I didn’t yet knowwhat the outcome was for my recipient. I have since received an update from BeThe Match, but for now I’m choosing to keep that information private.

30:48 ST: Thank you for listening toDo Good, Be Good. For show notes on today’s episode, and all the episodes,visit the website at DoGoodBeGoodShow.com. And if you want more behind thescenes stories and insights check us out on Facebook,Facebook.com/DoGoodBeGoodShow.

31:05 ST: Thank you again to Amanda for coming to my home studio and for sharing her story. On today’s episode, I was your audio engineer, producer, host, and all of the other things that went into making this podcast. Music in this episode is “Bathed In Fine Dust” by Andy G. Cohen, released under Creative Commons Attribution International License, and discovered in the Free Music Archive. Until next week, this is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom signing off.

[music]

The post #42 Two 2-Time Bone Marrow Donors Talk appeared first on Do Good, Be Good.