Eric Wolverton is back on the show and back at Habitat for Humanity. We discuss why he left a good job with benefits in the public sector to return to the busier, more stressful job as Director of the local Habitat for Humanity organization. We also discuss his choice to go straight into the workforce outside of high school instead of going into higher education and how that affects him now.

[music]

00:06 Speaker 1: This is Do Good, BeGood, the show about helpful people and the challenges they face in trying todo good. Your host is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom, a career do-gooder, who alsoloves craft beer and a good hard tackle in rugby. Sharon speaks to everydaypeople about why they do good and what it means to be good.

00:26 Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom:Welcome back, this is your host Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom, and I’m excited tobring you a continuation of Eric Wolverton’s story. On last week’s podcastepisode. We re-broadcast episode number three in which I had talked to EricWolverton about what it had been like for him to work in the food center, aswell as at Habitat for Humanity. And at that time he had made the jump to leaveHabitat for Humanity and start working for Public Radio. Well, now he is backon the mike and, spoiler alert, he’s back at Habitat for Humanity. That’s partof why I wanted to bring him in, is because he did something that is somewhatunconventional.

01:09 ST: He went back to a rolethat he had had previously, and I was really curious to find out why and howit’s going. So that’s a big part of what we talked about today. Although youwould enjoy this episode without having heard our previous conversation, I dorecommend that if you haven’t heard that yet, go back and listen to that onefirst. It should be the last podcast episode in your feed, or you can check itout on our website at dogoodbegoodshow.com. Re-broadcast episode number threeis what you look for. All right, let’s jump right into it.

01:45 ST: So you are back atHabitat?

01:48 Eric Wolverton: After beinggone for three years, I’m thankfully back and have been back for the last 14months.

01:55 ST: I saw you hit the groundrunning when you started. There was already exciting things happening.

02:01 EW: Well, we had to createexciting things because unfortunately, while I was gone in the three-year timespan, we only built one home. Honestly, when I left Habitat, my goal and what Iwas hoping I positioned the organization in was to be able to build at leastone home a year. So from the sidelines, I certainly was kind of bummed out.When I got back to Habitat and I had that great opportunity to really go backhome, I also recognized that not only was I the only one dissatisfied but thecommunity forgot who Habitat was. That’s when I challenged our board and Isaid, “Well, we’re gonna build two homes,” and they said, “Weonly have money for one.” And then I tried to compromise and I said,“Well, then let’s build one-and-a-half homes. And if we can build thesecond one out with some money, then let’s do it.” That was a game planthat the board could get behind. Thankfully, and I’m very grateful that thecommunity did step up, they saw our impact, they saw what we were doing on alarge scale. When we were done with the houses, our coffers were just as good aswhen we started. For us to be able to do that out of the gates was fencehousing.

03:28 ST: Yeah, I mean, as a totalsideline watcher, [chuckle] I felt the excitement that you were building aroundthat. I mean, it was great.

03:38 EW: Well, for me, it just camedown to the passion. After being removed for three years, I never really got totouch the mission of where I was working. Even though I was working in PublicRadio, well, I was only doing one facet of what I’m used to doing as anexecutive director. I was going out and I was asking businesses to sponsorPublic Radio. And that’s great and I’m behind Public Radio. I listen to itevery morning still but the problem though is is that for all good reasons, I’mnot gonna write a new script because I don’t have that background. I foundmyself getting very, very bored there, and I would go home and be, quitefrankly, quite depressed. My wife would say to me, she’s like, “You know,there’s really only one thing that satisfies you, and that’s when you’re touchingsomething that’s gonna end up helping somebody else.” Again, gratefully,when the opportunity presented itself, I could go back to my family over atHabitat.

04:47 ST: Was there anything that,in retrospect, do you feel like you were taking for granted at Habitat?

04:51 EW: Oh, absolutely, I wastaking for granted that we were doing so well. Quite frankly, I don’t feel likeI work hard at my job. I just work diligently at my job. We had great successmy first three years with Habitat before I left to go to Public Radio sophenomenally well, in fact, that I really honestly thought, okay, even though,when I found Habitat, they were struggling, but when I left it after threeyears, they are in a great position, and I can emotionally walk away, because Iwas being sought after by Public Radio with this idea of that I could earn ajob that was easy. And unfortunately then I thought that sounded really good.But when I got there and I recognized that I wanted a little break from being aleader, the guy that the buck stops here, I did want an unemotional break fromthat, but I didn’t recognize on how important it was for my psyche to be inthat role, on a day-to-day basis. And so then going to a place that I couldn’tfind myself emotionally fulfilled by the job, then it was meaningless.

06:14 EW: Public Radio gave me greatopportunities to expand my knowledge of the community and a lot of other thingsincluding being able to spend more quality time with my daughter in her singledigit years, which are very important. But nonetheless, I wasn’t reaping anybenefit. Just the things around me were becoming easier, because it’s easier, Ilearned a really hard lesson, it’s not fulfilling. And so, that grass was sogreen when they first said to me, “Come on over here,” and, “Thestudio is warm, all the time.” It sounded great, but boy, I’ll tell youwhat, that grass was very, very, very not as green as a thought.

[chuckle]

07:00 EW: And then, in hindsight, Irecognized how perfect I was at Habitat. It’s like a break-up, that’s what Ihad. I broke up a relationship. I’m the one that started it, [chuckle] becauseHabitat was being real good to me. But, for some reason, I felt like Ifulfilled everything that I needed to, and that I could move on and move up. Ifound out almost immediately after the break-up that I made a terrible,terrible choice. [chuckle] Granted, I had to learn a really good lesson atKNAU, and there’s no regrets. I’ve always told myself that a regret is just aleash, and it holds us back from being able to grow and be better. I look atthose three years as being great, because I wasn’t thrilled, but I persevered.I wasn’t really maybe super pumped up about the job, but I did it well, and Imade sure that the numbers were always the best that they’ve ever been.

08:07 ST: I asked Eric about theperspective he has gotten from working in different non-profits in differentfields.

08:15 EW: And you know, it is reallyinteresting to be able to go from food insecurity over to housing. Thecorrelation is very direct because food insecurity is always going to be thefirst cut from any budget. It’s the only thing that we have, in terms of ourneeds, on a financial scope, every month, that we can manage. So, we know thatour gas is gonna be $50, and we know our electric is gonna be $50, and ourwater is gonna be this much. All those are set in stone, and so if we’rehurting financially, there’s only one budget line item that you can mess withand that’s food. And then, that’s how people end up becoming food insecure,because they take that unfortunate but necessary step that sets them back, andthen it’s hard to get back on to the regular path again. And once somebody’sthere, then obviously, it’s very easy for folks to say, “Well, I’ve cutall the food I can cut. Now I’m gonna start missing a payment on this utility,or missing a mortgage payment, or what have you.” And so it can turn intoa downward spiral.

09:29 EW: I am just thrilled at whatI get to do with Habitat is that I get to work with the workforce of Flagstaff,and ensure that they have an opportunity to stay in Flagstaff. And living herefor 22 years everyday, and I’ve owned my home for 10 years now, but still,everyday is a battle to keep that home. We look at job opportunities as beingsexy, if they have health benefits, if they have a pension attached to it. Andthe reason why we do that is because we need a sense of security, right? But Ithink what ends up happening, though is by… And this gets a little political,but by allowing our employer to create that sense of security, it also thendisadvantages our ability to keep the passion, sustain the passion, find thosethings that really make us wanna work hard.

10:39 EW: And so I’ve always madethe argument that it’s not an employer’s role to provide benefits, or provide apension, because now you’re just stuck. But all of those great people, and theyare great people, that may feel stuck. If we had universal healthcare, if wehad a very good social security safety net, which doesn’t exist, then thosepeople would be able to challenge themselves and take their entrepreneurialspirit that all of us have and go do something with it. And take a risk,because that’s what all business is, it’s taking a risk.

11:23 ST: I think one littlemicrocosm of that is the almost religious zeal that many employers, mostemployers, have towards having sets schedules for work and prescripting thatwork must start at this time and end at this time. I mean, when I think aboutmyself and the times in which I wasn’t making the most out of every houreveryday, it was because I was forced to be there during hours where, I nowknow, I have trouble being very productive, like right after lunch.

12:01 EW: Yep. [chuckle]

12:02 ST: I’m just naturally notlike a super productive person right after lunch.

12:06 EW: Nor is anyone.

[chuckle]

12:07 ST: I have after lunch slows.So, now that I run my own schedule I can plan around that, and I can say, youknow, after lunch I’m just gonna do some chores, I’m gonna run that errand,whatever it is that doesn’t take a lot of mental effort on my part, becausethat’ll make more productive use of that time. And then, I’ll jump back into mywork after that.

12:28 EW: Yeah.

[music]

12:32 EW: Just taking a quick breakfrom my conversation with Eric to remind you that you can get the show notesfrom today’s episode, as well as a transcript at dogoodbegoodshow.com. You canalso follow our conversation around the show on Facebook at our Facebook page,facebook.com/dogoodbegoodshow. And you can always subscribe to the show forfree in any podcast app of choice, such as Spotify, Stitcher, Apple Podcast,Google Music, wherever you like to find your podcast. And, of course, it wouldhelp us immensely if you would rate our show in your podcast app of choice.Thanks so much for listening. Let’s jump back into the conversation with Eric.

13:19 EW: Our job roles have toevolve because our passion can’t be sustained with just one goal. We need toknow that everyday we’re going into work not to build a house for Habitat.We’re going in to build a house for Habitat and since we did that last year,that should be a lot easier. Let’s start talking about scholarships for adultsthat wanna go into trade professions, where it’s so needed, and there’s great opportunityfor our youth to be able to fill a monster void within our economy, and that’sjust those trade jobs. We’ve ignored those professions for a really long time.And, quite frankly, [chuckle] we have been living in the security of ourparents and grandparents to do that work for us. Well, they’re either gone orthey’re retired. And nobody in our generation, whether it’s Gen X, Millennial,Gen Y, nobody really is being… I don’t wanna say pushed, but educated thatthere’s these opportunities.

14:38 ST: How do you see that lackof people being encouraged to go into the trades, the fact that there are notenough workers for the trades here locally? Are you seeing that impact at all,the work that you do with Habitat?

14:54 EW: Oh, it’s insane. It costsa lot of money to get anyone to come out. It’s impossible to schedule anyone tocome out. There is just not enough workforce for the need. So, the more youngadults that we can get, and not going to the building management direction,again, that’s just people going for the leadership role. Not everybody is theleader and you don’t have to be a leader to make a great living. My friendsthat are in trade jobs, they find fulfillment when they are done with aproject, so if they end up putting electricity in a house, they did something.They physically got that thing so that it has power. And they can walk away,and everytime they go by that house, they can say, “I touched that house.I put power into that house.” That is fulfillment. And they’re doing this,maybe daily, maybe weekly, depending on how big the project is where sitting ata desk, and shuffling papers, and sending out emails, how are you gonna findaccomplishment? It’s really hard to drive by your office and say, “Wow,I’m really glad I put out that email yesterday.”

[laughter]

16:15 ST: Yeah, absolutely. Youmentioned that that was something that’s part of your story of saying,“I’m just gonna go into work, rather than going into college.” I’mcurious kinda how that choice has affected you as you’re now in this leadershiprole in the community. Did such still show up or was that something thatdoesn’t even factor in?

16:39 EW: I certainly think itfactors in almost daily. So, in high school I made the conscious decision, veryearly on, probably my sophomore year of I didn’t really wanna go to college. Myfather worked for the road department, he didn’t go to college. I have twobrothers, one went to college and my other brother is a general contractor, andhe doesn’t have a degree. I was never against education, though. I think thateducation is the most important thing for all of humanity. But, at the sametime, for me and this was back in 1996, when college was affordable, I didn’twanna pay for it. That was my big gripe. I was a farm boy that was used toworking, and I just wanted to get to the career immediately. To be honest withyou, I didn’t wanna do the hard work. I wanted to do the hard work into settingmyself up on a professional level that could compete with my peers that weregoing to college. My argument was like, “When you’re going to school forfour years, I’ll already be a supervisor when you’re done, because I am gonnaput in my sweat equity into my work.”

18:00 ST: I don’t think that thelack of education has hurt me professionally. Quite frankly, I’ve been luckyenough that my work ethic has been able to shine above any person’s perceptionthat having a lack of education could therefore then directly constitute aninability to do a job, which is very frustrating and still exists today. Thethings that irk me is If I’m compared to another person only based on myeducational background. So, if I have not met someone and they’re gonnainterview me and another person, and that other person has a master’s, but I’vegot 10 years more of work experience, then, yeah. I really, really getfrustrated when somebody’s like, “Well, they earned that master’s.”Well, what did I do? Are you saying I was just lazy, so I didn’t earn my wayup? That can get really hard. But I’m also very proud of where I’ve gotten, andI tell people, proudly, only have 12 college credits, and they’re all from thecommunity college. And I did it under my terms and when I wanted to do it.

19:19 ST: I feel like we’re at ashifting point. I don’t know if I can speak nationally, but [chuckle] certainlyin what I’ve seen and I was an instructor at the university for a semester, andI saw how these conversations were affecting the students I was working with,about the fact that college is not affordable at all. And that there’s noguarantee of results when you get out, in terms of employability, in terms ofhaving a career that will pay back your student loans, etcetera. So, I gotquestions directly from some of the students I was teaching, about… I had onestudent, in particular, who said, “I don’t think I should be here. I thinkI have other career prospects that I would be happier in, where I could startworking right away, where I could get great experience. I don’t even understandwhy I’m still here.”

20:16 EW: And that’s exactly why Ithink a lot of students feel that way. And they should. I mean, again, we’retalking about a vulnerable population, in terms of where they’re at. All of asudden, they’re 18 and given total freedom. And we all did, too, and it was great,and terrifying, and awesome. And I ate 50 packages of Oreos the first day I hadmy own place, ’cause I could do whatever I wanted, and that was awesome. Butalso, I ate 50 bags of Oreos! Let’s think about this. And immediately, like,“Here’s a credit card. Do you know how to use a credit card? Here’sstudent loan opportunity. Do you know how to pay those back?” All thesepredatory things that happen to young adults.

21:06 ST: I just have to interrupt to say that, as a freshman in college, they had credit card sign ups stations all over campus, or right outside campus and I once… The only time I did it. [chuckle] I signed up for a credit card, tried to give them a fake name and everything, in order to get a free sandwich.

[laughter]

21:27 EW: Well, at least you gotsomething out of the bank. [laughter]

21:29 ST: It’s like the one blemishon my credit score. It’s like this false account that I set up.

21:35 EW: That’s too funny. But it’sjust really… We go back to that food insecurity. You just wanted a sandwich.

21:40 ST: I just wanted a sandwich.I was really hungry and you were dangling a sandwich in front of me.

21:46 EW: So why not take it?

21:47 ST: Yeah, poor life choices at19, you know. [chuckle]

21:50 EW: Well, and that’s the thinglike we all make poor life choices, no matter what age we are.

21:55 ST: I would say and now.

21:56 EW: Yeah, I mean, it doesn’tmatter. From my 10-year-old, and I always remind her daily, mistakes are greatopportunities. The hard part though is is that when you’re young and you’reimpressionable, people can take advantage of it. And we’re setting our futureworkforce, like five steps back from where they could be. The opportunity ofowning a home is so impossible for so many people, because their debt to incomeis too high because of student loans like, give me a break. Hey, welcome to theworld, you’re 18 now. You’re going in to get your college degree,congratulations. You’re making a… The steps we told you to do for success tohit the American dream. By the way, we’re just gonna back you up $50,000. Don’tworry, it’ll work itself out.

22:48 ST: Yeah, don’t start at zero,start at negative $50,000.

22:52 EW: Yeah, it’s unbelievable tome. And that’s where I thought, quite frankly, again, getting back to makingthe choice of not getting that upper education right after high school,especially, was one, I didn’t want the debt. My parents were, God bless them,were really good about teaching me what debt was, and what it meant, and Icouldn’t afford school. I just personally thought, “Okay, my greatestopportunity for success is just get into the workforce. And that’s what I did.My first job was a postal worker. I thought, “Hey, I know mailmen andmailwomen that retire after a quick 25 years.” Well, I had to learn thathard mistake that I was not made to be a mailman. And I learned it. It tookeight months but I realized this wasn’t my path.

23:50 ST: Was there anything inparticular about being a postal employee that actually did teach you a lessonthat you carried forward?

24:02 EW: It did. I can’t do thesame thing everyday.

[laughter]

24:04 ST: I was imagining that wasthe piece of it, that it was particularly hard for you. [chuckle]

24:11 EW: It is. And it’s verydifficult. And I was very lucky, I was in rural New Jersey, they had a walkingroute that was five miles. Most people would find tons of satisfaction in thatworld, but to be honest with you, this was before there were iPods or anything.And so, I’m walking five miles a day, with no exterior distractions or anythinglike that. I must have came up with a million, million dollar ideas in mybrain. None of them in fruition. But, nonetheless, I was kind of driving myselfa little batty there.

24:48 ST: Yeah. What I’m hearing,though, really, is the next time you need a career break you should go get ajob like that where you have lots of time to think and physical exercise. Andthen that’ll set you off to your next million dollar idea. [chuckle]

25:04 EW: You know what it will doand much like my break from Habitat? It will put in perspective of what’simportant in my life. And again, that’s why I’m really thankful, and everyoneshould be really thankful that when times aren’t great, they’re still good. Andwe can try and look back and say, retrospectively, “How do I get back togreat, then?” And it might not be the old path, it might not be like Eric.“Oh, he went from Habitat to this and back to Habitat.” I was lucky.But that doesn’t mean that there’s other great opportunities. We started thewhole thing off, where I felt like I broke up with Habitat, and then we gotback together. That’s what work is. It’s just a slew of relationships. Youmight not be in a good one, but… And it’s hard to get out of it, it’s reallyhard to get out of a bad relationship.

26:03 ST: And it’s interesting,actually. I like this metaphor, because you talked about how we get medicallyand financially sort of trapped by the benefits and things and jobs. And thatcan happen in relationships, too. You own a house with someone or you have somesort of financial connection.

26:24 EW: No, I think you’respot-on. The thing that I lost the most about leaving Habitat and, quitefrankly, in my history at the food bank, nothing rewards me more than walkingaway from my desk and being able to participate in the mission, whether it’sputting food in food boxes, or installing floors at the Habitat homes.Honestly, that’s what I need. That’s my passion. Putting out the five emailsthat I joked about is my job and I do that all the time, and it’s part ofcreating the passion. But, nonetheless, I’d probably be just as happy if I justput in floors and physically could do so all year long.

27:11 ST: As long as you don’t haveto do it everyday.

27:14 EW: Yeah, not everyday.

[laughter]

27:16 ST: I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Eric. And thanks, Eric, so much, for coming to my home studioto record. I’m really grateful we got to have you back on the show. Thank youfor listening to Do Good, Be Good. For show notes on all of our episodes, visitdogoodbegoodshow.com. Today’s episode was edited, produced, and everything elseby me, Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom. Don’t forget you can always subscribe for freeto this show in any podcast app of choice, be that Spotify, Stitcher, Apple Podcast,any of them that you like. You can just click the button to subscribe, andyou’ll get each episode as soon as it is released. Music in this episode isBathed in Fine Dust, by Andy G. Cohen, released under Creative CommonsAttribution International License, and discovered in the Free Music Archive.Until next week, this is Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom signing off.[music]

The post #45 Coming Home to Build Homes for Others appeared first on Do Good, Be Good.