0:39

You're saying , in that situation where you're a locums doc

0:41

or you're transitioning to locums or you're starting

0:43

your own practice , you still recommend getting

0:45

private disability insurance .

0:47

Everyone who needs

0:49

their income should have

0:51

disability insurance . If you imagine

0:53

that your last paycheck was

0:56

really your last paycheck , would

0:58

you be okay ? And

1:01

for most of us the answer is

1:03

no . We all have car insurance . We

1:05

all have health insurance . A lot of people

1:07

get their engagement rings insured

1:09

right . I would have much rather lost

1:11

my engagement ring than my ability

1:13

to practice .

1:14

What's good everyone . This is Dr Neve , back with

1:16

another episode . This time we got Stephanie

1:18

Pearson with Pearson and Ravitz

1:20

. What's good , dr Stephanie , how you doing .

1:23

I am doing well . How are you ?

1:25

I'm awesome . It's 2024 . We

1:28

are building off of our previous episode

1:30

. I don't remember the episode number that you were on

1:32

, but recently you were on and you talked about your story

1:34

about how you ended

1:36

up having issues with disability insurance and

1:38

how you ended up using that after

1:42

an on-site , on-the-job injury

1:44

, and how you decided to

1:46

open up your own firm , your own practice , selling

1:49

disability insurance as well as life insurance to

1:51

healthcare professionals . We're going to put that

1:53

link in the show notes , y'all , so you guys can go

1:55

back and take a look at that . But on the spot

1:57

, I don't remember the number . I'm

1:59

45 . This is a 45-year-old brain .

2:02

I would not expect you to remember that . Thank

2:05

you I appreciate the grace .

2:06

I appreciate the grace , but

2:08

what we're here to talk about is we're here to talk

2:10

about , or talk to the residents , talk

2:13

to the locums , docs , as well

2:15

as talk to somebody attending about out

2:17

there , about disability insurance , because

2:19

, look , you know , you

2:21

throw in all the things that we just don't

2:23

learn about . High up there is

2:25

actually financial advice right , we got investing

2:27

. That sometimes can be you want to stick your head

2:30

in the sand with , but also now we got disability insurance

2:32

and all the different type of insurance quotes and numbers . So

2:35

let's jump right into it . I

2:37

know that docs , particularly

2:39

medical residents we're at a point where now you've already

2:41

spent four years in college . You did four years

2:43

of medical school , maybe a little bit more four or five

2:45

in med school , and now you're probably in your

2:47

first or second year of residency . And

2:50

here comes Stephanie Pearson talking

2:52

about docs . You need to protect your greatest

2:54

investment , which is , you know , your physical

2:56

ability to do your practice . But

2:58

the resident is going to come back to you and say , doc , I got

3:00

debt . You know , I got a bunch of student loan debt

3:03

that I'm trying to pay for . I just got this new check

3:05

, this new salary that I'm trying to figure

3:07

it out with and I'm trying to save money . I don't

3:09

have room time to

3:12

get disability insurance . Dr

3:14

Stephanie , what do you say ?

3:16

So I would argue that this

3:18

is one of , if not the most

3:20

important thing that needs to happen

3:22

while you're in training , and I'm

3:24

probably in a small

3:26

handful of brokers

3:28

that will tell residents

3:30

just because and actually I tell everybody

3:33

, so it's not just residents , I also tell attendings

3:35

just because you qualify

3:38

for a certain amount of benefit

3:40

doesn't mean that you need to purchase

3:42

it all , and one of

3:44

the biggest things with getting

3:46

it in training different

3:49

from when you become an attending is

3:51

that all of the carriers offer

3:53

discounts to trainees

3:55

and once you lock that

3:58

discount in , every

4:00

dollar that you purchase moving forward

4:03

is discounted , and

4:05

you're never going to be younger than

4:08

you are when you start training , and so

4:10

a lot of times what we'll do

4:12

is kind of reverse engineer a

4:15

policy early in training . I

4:17

guess I should take a step back . There

4:20

are currently five major companies

4:22

that offer specialty

4:24

specific on occupation policies

4:27

for physicians , so it's not

4:29

a giant playground , and

4:32

each of them has different discount

4:34

programs and they'll

4:37

let you kind of get

4:39

your foot in for a small benefit , and

4:41

so what we can talk about is okay , can

4:44

you spend $50

4:47

a month ? Right , can you spend

4:49

$25 ?

4:51

a month . Can you get it that low ?

4:53

We can Not for most women .

4:55

sorry , ladies , but we can Women

4:57

get screwed with disability insurance ? I'll be honest

4:59

with you , we do .

5:00

Women pay almost twice as much

5:02

as men . Thankfully

5:05

, we get a little bit of break on the life insurance

5:07

side . It's more expensive for men Not

5:11

entirely a sexist , as

5:13

it appears . It is based

5:15

on true actuarial data that

5:18

says women leave the

5:20

workforce more often than men because of

5:22

injury or illness . Men tend

5:24

to die younger and more successfully

5:26

at their own hands and

5:29

there's a big misconception that

5:31

life insurance doesn't pay for suicide

5:33

. A lot of the better

5:36

companies will just not

5:38

within the first two years that you buy

5:40

the policy . And so

5:42

that's kind of their catch right , you don't

5:44

?

5:44

want to think about it first .

5:46

Right . They don't want you purchasing a policy

5:49

knowing that you're planning that

5:51

. It was actually something

5:53

really smart my husband made me do

5:55

after I got hurt . I

5:58

was not in a very good mental headspace

6:00

but my injury didn't

6:02

affect my mortality , it just affected

6:04

my morbidity . And we got

6:06

more life insurance for me . And

6:09

after I signed it he said , did

6:12

you read it ? And of course I said no

6:14

and he highlighted

6:17

where it said that

6:19

it would not pay for suicide for the first

6:21

two years of the policy . And it

6:23

was one of the smartest things he did because

6:26

, admittedly , I was in a very dark

6:28

place . I had written letters , I

6:31

had a plan and at

6:33

that point I was like I can't do it

6:35

. I can't do that to my kids , more

6:37

financially than mentally

6:39

, which is messed up in

6:42

its own vein , but that's

6:44

what depression does .

6:46

And I remember we covered that in the previous

6:49

episode where so much of your

6:51

, in essence , your worth , excuse

6:54

me , and what you can contribute to your family

6:56

was related to what you did

6:59

in the hospital as an OB-GYN , of course

7:01

, and that's really tough and I think a lot of

7:03

people think about it . When you hear that , you're like , hmm

7:05

, I wonder if I'm the same way . So

7:09

when you're talking to residents and you're

7:12

telling residents , okay , well , maybe for as cheap as $25

7:15

or $50 , they can protect

7:17

, now , how does that work ? What exactly are they protecting

7:20

? Are they protecting their

7:22

ability to bring in income ? Are they protecting

7:25

their like ? Get specific about

7:27

that , because I think that's the part that I think a lot of residents

7:29

we , even general doctors , don't

7:31

really generally understand about disability insurance . What

7:33

are you protecting ?

7:35

You are protecting your ability

7:37

to earn money practicing

7:40

what you have been trained and

7:42

skilled to practice right

7:45

. So I'm an OB-GYN

7:47

. I was not cleared

7:49

to operate . I was not

7:52

cleared to do OB . I

7:54

was a very prolific surgeon

7:56

and that's how I made most of my

7:58

money . And I couldn't do

8:01

either of those things , and

8:03

so what my disability insurance

8:05

did was

8:07

pay me back a

8:10

certain amount , and

8:12

that's another place where people get a little bit

8:14

confused . Unfortunately

8:18

, thanks to the

8:20

physicians from the 80s

8:22

, a

8:24

lot of things had to change in the

8:26

DI space when

8:29

HMOs and health

8:31

insurance kind of came in to

8:33

play and a lot of the docs who were

8:35

making a boatload right

8:37

, we all know the docs in the 80s were

8:39

like making a shit

8:41

ton and then they stopped making

8:44

that . There was an interesting

8:46

increase in bike accidents

8:49

, golf accidents and , believe it or not

8:51

, car accidents , and a lot

8:53

of docs made claims and

8:56

actually bankrupted a couple

8:58

of older companies . What

9:00

Are you serious ? I swear I'm a dork

9:02

. I love the history of

9:04

medicine .

9:06

So because they weren't making as much as they

9:08

were making before and

9:10

they already had and they already

9:12

had disability insurance . They

9:15

were getting into these accidents

9:18

. Whoa , that's crazy

9:20

.

9:20

And what happened ? As does

9:22

when things like this happen , legislation

9:25

got involved and now

9:27

we're not supposed

9:30

to be able to be fully insured

9:33

, meaning we can't make

9:35

you whole right . You're

9:38

covering a percentage of

9:41

your income and it's all

9:43

based on internal proprietary

9:45

algorithms that the companies have , where

9:48

we say okay

9:51

, Dr Smith makes X dollars

9:53

and has a group benefit

9:55

of X dollars . What

9:58

does Dr Smith qualify

10:00

for ? It's not like you

10:02

can say to me , steph

10:04

. I want $20,000 a month in

10:06

benefit . I'm willing to pay for it . If

10:08

the numbers don't work out , I

10:11

can't make it happen . It's one of the

10:13

most interesting sales

10:16

positions in that

10:19

I don't control the product , I

10:21

don't control the pricing and I don't

10:23

control how much I can get you . I

10:26

can control education

10:28

, advocacy and service right

10:31

.

10:32

What if a resident comes back to you and says , well , look

10:34

, I'll take my chances , I'm young , Like , what's the likelihood

10:36

of them ? What's the likelihood of a claim

10:38

? Or do you have that ? What's the likelihood of a claim

10:41

being , or someone getting injured

10:43

in residency ? Or just in general , do

10:45

you have that statistics of someone getting injured

10:47

while they're being a physician ?

10:48

So because of proprietary

10:51

stuff , it's almost impossible to

10:53

get that data If you

10:55

look at national data

10:57

, but it kind of encompasses everybody

10:59

. The kind of rule of thumb

11:01

is that one in four will

11:04

experience a disability

11:06

during their working career

11:08

. So I don't

11:10

have the ability to say , okay

11:13

, 10% of residents

11:15

or whatever . I can say anecdotally

11:18

that we've had

11:20

clients go out in

11:23

training . I also

11:25

am friends with my disability lawyer

11:27

and he has dozens

11:30

of there's disability lawyers . We

11:34

sometimes need the good guys . There

11:36

are not good guys and

11:39

good guys .

11:40

When you say disability , you talking about the injury , and

11:44

the injuries the ones that we see on TV commercials

11:46

, those type of so disability

11:48

lawyers do not .

11:49

A good disability lawyer is

11:52

usually not that shawarmy . I've

11:54

never seen a commercial for

11:56

a disability lawyer . You're usually seeing

11:58

commercials for workman's

12:00

comp or lips and falls

12:03

ambulance chasers .

12:05

That's not the same thing .

12:06

Not the same thing . Got it okay , got

12:08

it , and it's

12:10

interesting because my case got challenged

12:13

and I did need a lawyer

12:15

. However , knock

12:17

on wood , we've had over

12:20

two dozen claims in the last

12:22

year and a half and not a single one

12:24

needed a lawyer . I'd like

12:26

to think that it's because I kind

12:29

of helped them through the process in

12:31

a way that I wasn't helped , but

12:34

I'm digressing , sorry . The

12:37

short answer is we don't

12:39

actually know the percentage of

12:41

physicians . However , every

12:44

year there are hundreds

12:47

and hundreds of docs who

12:49

leave and , interestingly

12:51

, in our pocket , most

12:54

of our clients that have gone out on

12:56

claim have actually been

12:59

under 45 . And

13:01

I think that most people

13:03

, when they think disability

13:06

, they're thinking older , right

13:09

, they're thinking cancer , stroke . They're

13:11

not thinking about breast

13:15

cancer , which we're seeing younger

13:17

, musculoskeletal

13:19

issues Calming cancer Right .

13:21

Yeah , we're seeing that , yeah .

13:23

You know , I read somewhere in an ergonomics

13:26

talk that

13:28

surgeons are pretty

13:31

much on par with your

13:33

basic construction guys and

13:36

it kind of makes sense . We put our bodies

13:38

in really interesting positions

13:40

.

13:41

I definitely see orthopedic surgeons , definitely

13:43

Right .

13:46

And it's not a surprise , and think about how

13:49

when people GI

13:51

guys , they're scoping , they're

13:53

moving their bodies we all

13:55

do it . And

13:59

random , random stuff too . I

14:01

mean , we had two

14:03

broken femurs , one

14:05

literally just walking

14:07

, and turned out that he had

14:09

a undiagnostic vision .

14:11

I was about to ask is that a pathologic

14:13

fracture ? Yeah , it was a pathologic fracture

14:15

.

14:17

And then we had a gal get hit by a car

14:19

walking across the street . Like

14:22

accidents happen right .

14:24

See , it's funny . I'm glad you bring that up because I was thinking

14:27

I'm a surgeon , trauma surgeon

14:29

. We think the worst . I'm thinking like that you pick up a drinking

14:31

habit , or you pick up

14:33

you get hypertension through all the stress

14:35

of all your attendings and so forth . But no , you're

14:37

talking about real life , like A what if you develop

14:40

cancer ? What if you get hit by a car

14:42

? You are driving home , post

14:44

call you got kicked and stuff

14:46

. So the question I have for

14:48

you then is okay , in that situation

14:50

, the way to look at it if you're a resident

14:52

is when you're your healthiest

14:55

, the insurance is the cheapest right

14:57

, correct .

14:58

You're the youngest , you're the healthiest and

15:01

it's going to be the cheapest because it discounts

15:03

.

15:03

And I didn't know that you could get it that cheap . I did not

15:05

know . I thought it was like because I paid , like I

15:08

got to be honest with you . I

15:10

had a certain company that I'll just

15:12

say the initials with NW , but

15:14

I was like in the high 200s

15:17

in residency , 300s I think , and

15:19

that was a bit of a struggle for me , but that was more budgeting

15:21

of an issue . But I thought that was expensive , but

15:23

I thought that I didn't not think that you can

15:26

go cheaper than that you can .

15:28

And right now and I'm

15:30

painting with a wide brush all

15:33

the carriers have different little nuances

15:35

, but all trainees

15:37

qualify for a $5,000

15:39

a month benefit . Some companies

15:41

have gotten a little bit higher . The

15:44

rule of thumb again is

15:46

men should expect to pay 1%

15:48

to 3% of

15:50

their gross income , women

15:53

should expect to pay 2% to 6%

15:56

.

15:57

That's total the entire year .

15:59

And I will tell you , with the discounts

16:01

it gets lower than that . And

16:03

I made a mistake . I didn't get it till I was in

16:06

attending and in my , you

16:08

know , say domesticist brain

16:10

, I went back and ran numbers

16:12

and I qualified

16:14

for less and I paid more . Because

16:18

, again , if you remember when I said when

16:20

you're , you know when you're in attending they look

16:22

at how much you make , but they also look at your

16:24

group benefits and group benefits often

16:27

hurt us . They're way

16:29

inferior and

16:32

I didn't even qualify

16:34

for a $5,000 benefit my first year

16:36

as an attending .

16:37

So these are the benefits . When you say group benefits , that's

16:40

the well . You have disability

16:42

insurance as a resident . That's part of

16:44

like all the residents get . That that's

16:46

like a group coverage , but that's different than

16:48

us talking about specifically in this situation

16:51

, you purchasing your own disability insurance

16:53

right Like the

16:55

benefits Employer

16:58

benefits . See , I knew you . Yeah , there you go .

17:00

Okay .

17:02

Now you mentioned you mentioned there was some companies that

17:04

make it the companies that you should go with

17:06

. What are those ? Is it the top five or top

17:08

seven companies ? So there's five .

17:11

So you have principal , standard , emeritus

17:13

, mass mutual and guardian . They're

17:16

considered the big five Prior

17:19

to May of 2023

17:22

, ohio

18:22

National was the sixth , but

18:25

in May they dropped out

18:27

of the individual disability

18:29

space , just like MetLife

18:31

did in 2016

18:33

. Both of

18:36

those companies , though , if you have

18:38

a policy with them and

18:40

you pay your premium , the policies are

18:42

intact and

18:44

protected . It's just that they're not

18:46

writing new .

18:48

New ones . So you're grandfathered in if you

18:50

hear your name with that company .

18:52

Yes , okay , so

18:54

name those five companies , again Principal standard

18:57

emeritus , mass mutual

18:59

and guardian .

19:01

Okay , okay , all right . Now

19:03

, if you're an attending and you're listening to this show and

19:05

you're like , look man , like my specialty

19:08

, like I always get a letter from the American College of Surgeons

19:11

, is this nice thick size envelope and it says

19:13

that you can get disability insurance for this amount

19:15

and this insurance is specifically

19:17

tailored for members of the American

19:19

College of Surgeons . You're a surgeon , so

19:22

why not buy it from us ? Because we know exactly

19:24

what you go through , right , you get that letter so I could

19:26

come back and tell you , dr Stephanie

19:28

, like that's what I got or that's what I'm thinking about getting

19:30

. I got a lot of money . I got a lot of debt

19:33

I don't have , and also my job

19:35

whether it's private practice or , you

19:37

know , the hospital based practice that I'm at they have

19:39

group policy . Talk to me about that . I

19:41

need to get my own disability insurance .

19:44

So three main reasons that

19:46

we have issues with employer

19:48

policies , and then I'll talk about association

19:51

policies for a little bit . Most

19:54

group employer

19:56

benefits happen to be employer paid

19:59

right . It's part of your benefits

20:01

package . It's one box that you

20:03

check off right During open enrollment . They

20:06

don't have to actually give you the policy

20:08

which is mind boggling to me

20:10

that's one of the bands of my existence is trying

20:13

to get these full documents , but

20:15

it comes down to taxation

20:18

, ownership and language

20:20

. If your employer

20:22

is paying for your

20:25

policy . Any

20:27

money that you get from that policy

20:29

is taxable income

20:31

. That

20:34

policy you're paying

20:36

for yourself with post tax

20:38

dollars , so the benefit

20:40

comes tax-free . Big

20:43

difference between money that's getting taxed

20:45

and money that's not getting taxed right

20:47

.

20:48

Second , ownership so that

20:50

$5,000 is not really $5,000 .

20:53

Not from a group benefit .

20:55

From a private yes , got

20:58

you .

20:58

Ownership is the second . Most

21:01

of these employer paid policies

21:03

are employment dependent , so

21:06

you walk away , it's

21:08

not coming with you , and

21:11

recent data shows that

21:14

most of us will make three to five job

21:16

changes during our working

21:18

years , and so

21:20

you may have been covered and

21:22

then you You'll hear me applaud , not

21:24

to cut you over , but I'm like , yes , we should .

21:27

The way how the job market is and the way it's contracting

21:30

with all these mergers , you may have to make

21:32

a move a couple of times .

21:33

So that makes sense , right , and so it doesn't

21:35

go with you , but if you have a private policy

21:37

, it's portable . I joke

21:39

, it's like having it in your back pocket . I kind of age

21:42

myself , I know it's really on a computer , but

21:45

it's going to go with you wherever you go

21:47

. Right , it

21:49

grows up with you , is

21:51

what I like to say . Right ? The

21:53

biggest issue , though , is language

21:55

. Right , you want to know what you're actually

21:58

covered for , and , unfortunately

22:00

, these employer benefits

22:02

need to be cheap

22:04

. Right , the

22:06

employer's covering everybody and

22:09

they don't really want to pay out .

22:10

Now I get it .

22:11

Right . So a lot of them are

22:14

somewhat misleading . They'll

22:16

tell you that it's own occupation , but

22:18

then you read the document and it may

22:21

be own occupation for two years

22:23

and then it switches to any

22:25

occupation . Or the

22:27

definition of own occupation

22:30

is what's called held to the national

22:32

economy or the local labor

22:35

market . It is not specific

22:37

to what one employee does at

22:39

one employer site . Well

22:41

, you put a hundred surgeons up against

22:43

a wall . You're not all doing the same thing . You're

22:46

not practicing the same way , right

22:49

? You don't want to be compared

22:51

to your neighbor . You want to be covered

22:53

for what it is you do day

22:56

in and day out , and with a private

22:58

policy , that's what happens

23:00

. Also , most

23:04

I've yet to see actually a group

23:06

policy that doesn't do this

23:08

. The definition for total disability

23:11

is you can't

23:13

do your job , as they've defined

23:15

it , and you

23:17

can't be gainfully employed . And

23:20

I will tell you that , for most of us

23:22

who are type A and

23:25

want to serve , even

23:27

guys with TBIs and

23:30

strokes have figured out how

23:32

to be productive , if for no other reason

23:34

, to get the hell out of your house . Most

23:37

of us are not hardwired to

23:39

stay at home and you don't want to have to worry

23:42

about losing any or all of your benefit

23:44

. They've also gotten really

23:46

creative . Most of them

23:48

now will limit mental

23:51

health and substance abuse to two years

23:53

. They have this new category called subjective

23:56

illnesses . That is

23:58

including , but not limited to

24:01

, pain , headaches , fatigue

24:03

, ringing

24:05

in the ears .

24:06

There's a giant list that

24:09

they're only going to pay for two years , and this

24:11

is specifically on the group side right . We're

24:13

still talking about the inferiorities

24:16

of group . So they suck .

24:20

Yeah , since COVID , yeah

24:23

, yeah , since COVID . No , you know what

24:25

? It's

24:28

better than nothing . And there are

24:30

definitely people out there with

24:32

complicated medical histories where

24:35

I will say , look the group

24:37

policy , it's better than nothing

24:39

. Right , but

24:41

in a lot of places it

24:43

really does hurt us . And since COVID

24:45

we're seeing more policies

24:48

that are not covering work related

24:50

injuries or illnesses . I

24:53

don't know how we're supposed to prove

24:55

where we get sick

24:58

, like it's a slippery

25:00

slope . We've

25:02

also started seeing group policies

25:05

that limit musculoskeletal injuries

25:07

and I already said that's the number one reason we go

25:10

out . Shoulders

25:12

, necks , backs are

25:15

huge and

25:18

a lot of people don't realize that

25:20

there's a limit . And so

25:22

a lot of times people will come

25:25

to me saying , oh , 60%

25:27

of my income is covered , I'm

25:29

fine . And then I get to

25:31

be in this unenviable position

25:33

where I say , hey , check page four . Did

25:36

you see where it said 60% of

25:38

your base , up to

25:41

10,000 a month ? And

25:44

then they're like malescaping

25:47

. A lot

25:49

of docs and academic settings

25:51

have a very small base

25:53

salary .

25:55

And then they get different plucks .

25:58

You get your RVU , you get your teaching

26:00

stipend , you get your quality

26:03

assurance stipend .

26:04

Listen up , listen up academics .

26:07

None of that is covered . None

26:10

, it's your base . That's

26:12

how they get you . And

26:14

again , there are times just

26:17

like everything in medicine there are exceptions to the rule

26:19

and there are times where I will actually

26:21

say to somebody a group

26:24

benefit needs to be part of your negotiation

26:26

Because we're not going to be able

26:28

to get you covered and you need to have something . And

26:31

again , something's better than nothing . But

26:34

when we're talking about private

26:36

policies , we get

26:38

to make them as strong as we want . The

26:41

one thing I'll say about association policies

26:44

is if it looks too good

26:46

to be true , it usually is . Oftentimes

26:50

they also have some

26:52

very interesting things

26:57

snuck in . As

26:59

far as I can take

27:01

the ACS , for instance

27:04

I just reviewed theirs not too long ago you

27:07

have to be full-time for

27:10

it to be active . Well , how many

27:12

docs do we know that are going part-time

27:14

or cutting back for

27:16

work-life balance ?

27:17

Or just do low-comes . How do you keep track of those numbers

27:20

?

27:21

Right , and so you have

27:23

to be a paying member of the society , you

27:25

have to be full-time . There are

27:27

limits on when and how

27:29

you can keep pace with your income

27:32

. It may

27:34

be that , oh

27:37

my gosh , I just lost my train of thought .

27:39

Hold on , I just sticky . I'm

27:43

telling you guys , she's surgical

27:45

with this . She's surgical with this .

27:47

Sticky Again . I told you I'm old

27:50

, right ? So their

27:52

definition of total disability is you can't

27:55

do your job and you can't be gainfully

27:57

employed . So that's a modified total

28:00

disability definition . Their

28:02

residual benefit so a

28:05

residual or partial benefit is a benefit

28:07

that kicks in if you can do your job

28:10

but not sustainably . So

28:12

think things that cause fatigue right MS

28:14

, autoimmune diseases , early degenerative

28:16

diseases , things where your treating

28:18

physician is going to say look , you can do your job

28:21

, but maybe you can only work

28:23

four days instead of five , or

28:25

six hours instead of 12 hours

28:28

. You can actually still do

28:30

what you're supposed to do

28:32

. You're going to take a pay cut . There

28:35

are actually more residual

28:37

and partial claims filed and paid

28:39

every year rather than total

28:42

, and I can

28:44

again anecdotally tell you that every

28:47

single one of my breast cancer survivors

28:49

went back to work part-time

28:51

during their treatment for

28:55

their own well-being . With

28:58

the ACS policy you

29:00

can only get a residual benefit

29:02

if you're totally disabled first

29:05

, and we see that in a lot

29:07

of association policies . So

29:10

that's

29:12

a little bit wonky to me

29:14

. I think it's misleading to say that they have a residual

29:16

benefit if you have to be totally

29:18

disabled first .

29:21

Now what about the locums realm

29:23

?

29:23

Let's jump into that . Yeah , so locums

29:26

is really interesting .

29:27

When you're a locums doc , you are doing

29:29

all of your benefits by yourself . Basically

29:32

, You're paying for your health insurance by yourself

29:34

. You probably have your own life insurance . You have

29:36

all these different things , Right

29:39

? So they have no coverage . So

29:42

what happens in that situation ? How

29:44

are you paying for this ? Everybody talks about tax

29:46

benefit , this tax benefit that Should you

29:48

pay for your disability insurance with

29:50

your business money or with your

29:52

salary money ? Can you clarify all that

29:54

for us ?

29:55

So first things first . Who

29:58

pays for it is an accountant

30:01

question , but

30:03

99.9%

30:05

of the times you want to pay yourself

30:07

. Remember , if your business

30:09

pays for it , it's

30:12

probably going to be taxable because

30:14

you're going to end up writing it off from

30:18

your business , so very

30:21

, very rarely do

30:23

I ever recommend that somebody

30:26

pay for a private policy

30:28

with their business money

30:30

. You want to get your benefit tax-free

30:33

. As far as locums

30:35

go , it's really been interesting . When

30:37

I started doing this about seven years

30:39

ago , no one covered locums

30:41

. They basically looked at them as

30:43

nomadic and

30:46

how are they going to prove what they're doing

30:48

? And it was something

30:50

I really fought hard for when

30:52

I started doing this , because I said , look , these guys

30:54

are the guys who really need help

30:57

. They don't have any group benefits

30:59

, they're everything . They have

31:01

no insurance . They're making decent

31:03

money and a

31:05

lot of them are practicing between 20

31:08

, 30 , 40 hours a week on average

31:11

. And so over the last

31:13

couple of years , each

31:16

of the carriers has come out

31:18

with how they're

31:20

willing to cover , and it is carrier-dependent

31:23

Some of them it's based

31:25

on . Are you going straight

31:27

from training to being

31:30

a locum ? Are

31:32

you going from being

31:34

a W2D attending

31:37

to locums , or

31:39

have you already been doing locums a

31:42

while ? And then they

31:44

kind of come up with what that math

31:46

looks like . And

31:48

again , sometimes

31:50

there's creative accounting . If

31:52

you've created an LLC for

31:55

yourself or something like that , we

31:57

can only cover what

32:00

Uncle Sam sees

32:02

that you're making . And so

32:04

sometimes private docs

32:06

, locums they

32:09

have good accountants so they don't

32:11

pay a ton of taxes . There's a lot of write-offs

32:14

, but then unfortunately I

32:16

can't cover it all . Got

32:18

you ?

32:20

But so if you normally are , if

32:22

you're a normal salary , so basically what you're saying is , if you're a normal

32:24

salary is like $200,000

32:27

, but your company

32:29

pays you the equivalent of $75,000

32:33

, you can only insure that

32:35

75,000 . The 75,000 . Yeah , people listen

32:37

up , however , listen up .

32:39

Because I think it's

32:41

a huge win for physicians that

32:43

most of the companies will now

32:45

cover locums . It's just

32:48

that we have to prove contracts

32:51

upfront right

32:53

and prove

32:55

that somebody really is going to be working

32:57

at least 20

32:59

to 30 hours a week . And I say 20

33:02

to 30 because in the insurance

33:04

space full-time is

33:06

30 hours a week , part-time

33:09

is 20 to 30 hours a week

33:11

and also when I started doing

33:13

this , there was only one company that

33:16

would cover part-time physicians

33:18

and now most of them

33:20

will . It's just there's

33:22

a couple little nuances . But

33:25

even docs , when people

33:28

start their own practices right and they're not

33:30

up and running , they

33:32

still need to be covered , but they may

33:34

not be doing as much .

33:38

So you're saying , if so , in that situation where you're

33:40

a locum's doc or you're transitioning to locums

33:42

or you're starting your own practice , you still recommend

33:45

getting private disability insurance

33:47

. It's just that it's going to look a little different .

33:50

Everyone who needs their

33:52

income should have disability

33:54

insurance . And I

33:56

tell people and maybe

33:59

the salesiest thing that I say

34:01

but if you imagine

34:04

that your last paycheck

34:06

was

34:08

really your last paycheck , would

34:12

you be okay ? And

34:15

for most of us the answer is

34:17

no . Right , maybe

34:20

you have three to 12 months of

34:22

emergency savings , right

34:24

? Maybe it

34:27

makes a huge difference in

34:29

how you kind of can move forward

34:31

, reinvent yourself

34:33

, make sure that you don't

34:35

have to sell your house , you don't have to take your

34:38

kids out of school . It's

34:40

huge , you know , and

34:42

everybody talks to us about

34:44

needing life insurance . When you

34:47

have dependents , you need to have

34:49

homeowners or house insurance

34:51

. What are the real odds

34:53

that your house is going to catch on fire ? It's

34:55

really friggin' low , right ? We

34:58

all have car insurance , we all have health insurance

35:00

. A lot of people get their engagement

35:03

rings insured , right . I

35:05

think that's much rather lost my engagement ring than

35:07

my ability to practice .

35:10

Fair enough , fair enough . Now

35:12

, who should they be buying from ? Right , because you

35:15

know , obviously you know folks

35:17

like you , pearson and Ravitz , you guys

35:19

are brokers , correct , explain

35:22

to us . You know why folks

35:24

listening Say again what

35:27

that means . Yeah , explain to us what that means

35:29

and how that works and stuff People

35:32

. That's . Another confusing thing for people also is you

35:34

know the person who's trying to sell me insurance ? Should

35:37

I be buying from the ? I don't know . Explain that to us , please

35:39

.

35:39

So there's a little bit of semantics

35:42

involved . So , if

35:44

we're going true to term , there

35:47

are agents and there

35:49

are brokers . Agents

35:51

work for a single

35:54

company and are

35:56

incentivized to sell

35:58

that company . Brokers

36:02

are independent . They

36:05

make arrangements and agreements

36:07

with all of the carriers

36:09

and are not incentivized

36:12

to sell one over another

36:14

. And you know , one of the things

36:17

I always tell people is if you're speaking

36:19

to somebody and they're only showing you

36:21

one option , that's

36:23

bad , that happened to me yeah

36:26

. It happened to me too .

36:27

Yeah .

36:28

You know you want somebody who's going to

36:30

go over at least a few options

36:33

and go through what the

36:35

nuances are . You

36:37

know , what's good for you may not be good

36:39

for me , and each carrier

36:41

has something that's just a little

36:44

bit different . That makes

36:46

it attractive , right , what you

36:48

know I say that , like , certain things

36:50

are real sexy in one household

36:53

and not sexy at all in another

36:55

household , right . And

36:57

so you know you want somebody

36:59

who's going to be impartial and

37:02

go through a few options , that's

37:05

really going to explain stuff and

37:07

not just talk at

37:09

you . You know , I remember

37:11

, you know , 20 years ago the

37:14

guy came over . He showed me one thing

37:16

. I had no idea what the hell he

37:18

was talking about . He didn't really define

37:22

things for me . I

37:24

was brought up to trust right

37:27

people and I'm like , okay , and

37:29

I signed and I ended up with

37:31

two policies because I got

37:34

a long story short . Neither

37:37

of them were exactly what I needed

37:39

and it was just that I wasn't

37:41

educated right and I didn't know

37:43

the right questions to ask

37:45

and ultimately

37:47

wasn't advocated for either . When I had my

37:50

problem and I called , he was like golfing

37:52

in Florida and really couldn't be bothered because

37:54

of the premiums possibly , you

37:56

know , offer the commissions and stuff for

37:58

me Go ahead please . That's

38:01

another thing that , personally

38:03

, was really important . In

38:06

our company , everybody

38:08

is salaried , so our

38:10

producers have no idea

38:12

what our commission rates are at

38:15

all . I actually , I don't even know what our commission

38:17

rates are . Our CFO does . He happens

38:20

to be my husband , so I'm hoping that he's not screwing

38:22

me over . I don't ever

38:24

want one of our

38:26

clients to question our

38:28

ethics or to question

38:31

our recommendations because

38:33

it's not based on money . We

38:35

give good people good jobs and

38:37

they have benefits and

38:40

you know all the things , which

38:42

is a little bit different than historical

38:44

traditional life

38:46

insurance and disability insurance salespeople

38:49

.

38:49

Well , if I must throw in , so probably

38:52

for me , a little bit over 10 years ago

38:54

, like 12 , 13 years

38:56

ago , I met my insurance guy at

38:58

a party , which was a red flag right there

39:00

. But the way in which , the

39:02

way in which I got sold it

39:04

was here's this one company and

39:07

I'm going to sell you this one company , but I have

39:10

the ability to sell all these other companies

39:12

, but this one company is so badass

39:14

that I don't feel like selling all those other

39:16

companies and I fell for that . They

39:19

remain to be named . I will not name that

39:21

company , I will not name that person

39:24

, but it's the same thing it's

39:27

like , rather than present me three other or

39:29

two other or whatever . It was just no

39:31

, this company is the best . I

39:33

can sell all the other ones , but I feel

39:35

so strongly about this one . You should go for that . And

39:37

everybody was sold the same thing and

39:39

I just found out that it just I was overpaying

39:42

. There was one point where we were paying more

39:44

for our disability insurance that we were paying towards our student

39:46

loans . It was a disaster . So

39:49

now , like we have , I have my insurance

39:51

through principal and my wife has it through a meritas

39:53

.

39:54

And it's funny you bring them up

39:57

in May of 2023

39:59

. They both changed their

40:01

products as well .

40:04

Really .

40:05

And so I tell people

40:07

that when I'm showing stuff now , because

40:09

if somebody's comparing notes

40:11

with a friend , if a policy

40:14

was purchased before May of 2023

40:16

, they're not looking at the same

40:18

policy . And

40:21

it's been , did it ?

40:21

get worse , or did it get better ? It

40:24

always gets worse .

40:26

Some of each , admittedly

40:29

, some of each . Again , they

40:31

, you know , it ends

40:33

up being somewhat obvious to

40:35

me who they

40:38

don't want to cover for a while

40:40

and they price out

40:42

. So they

40:46

all kind of ebb and flow over time

40:48

. Got you , got you .

40:50

Well , but that's the reason why you're on this show , that's the reason why you're showing your

40:52

expertise and that's the reason why you know

40:54

your sponsor . You know openly

40:57

show guys she's a sponsor of this show is because

40:59

we rock with her and we think that if

41:01

you're going to buy disability insurance or life insurance

41:03

, we can talk about that on a different episode . You

41:06

know that you're getting it from someone

41:08

who has the heart of a teacher and or someone

41:10

who kind of went through some bullshit which is what you

41:12

did also and so you really know

41:14

what you're talking about . So

41:16

that's super , super important . Is

41:19

there any like final parting thoughts that

41:22

you want to leave us with Dr

41:24

Pearson before we get on out of here ?

41:26

Listen , I do not want people eating cat

41:29

food to have insurance right

41:31

, so you need to think

41:33

about what you have

41:36

that you can put towards this and

41:38

work with somebody who's willing

41:40

to reverse engineer stuff

41:42

as residents , because I get it . I

41:44

lived paycheck to paycheck and

41:47

wish that I had gotten

41:49

it when I was a resident .

41:52

Boom , there it is , as Dr Stephanie

41:54

Pearson , with Pearson and Ravich y'all . Once

41:56

again , we're going to put her first episode

41:58

with an extremely compelling story . We

42:01

always talk about equating your self-worth

42:03

with what you do on a job , but

42:06

that's a really compelling story . We're going to put that

42:08

episode in the show notes so you can take

42:10

a look and take a listen . Excuse me as to

42:12

that episode , but once again

42:14

, dr Stephanie , if people want to get in touch

42:16

with you , people want to work with you , people want to purchase

42:19

some disability insurance or life insurance , how

42:21

do we do that ? How did they make that happen ?

42:23

Our website is PearsonRavitscom

42:26

. I am Stephanie

42:28

Pearson . On all social

42:30

media platforms there's

42:34

also .

42:35

I bet you 20 years ago you thought you'd never say something like that right

42:37

.

42:37

No , I also would have

42:39

never been happy with

42:41

four computer screens . It's

42:45

crazy If you would have told me

42:47

.

42:47

Well , your life is used to looking at multiple strips

42:49

, though on different screens , but not in this manner , though

42:52

.

42:53

Yeah , yeah , but I am incredibly

42:55

easy to find . Now . You can

42:57

call the office 610658-3251

43:02

. You can email .

43:04

Truly a filling number . Yep , you can call the office 610658-3251

43:08

.

43:08

Carrier pigeon , whatever . But

43:11

yeah , I am very easily

43:13

accessible .

43:15

Boom , there it is , guys , Dr Stephanie Pearson

43:17

talking to us about disability insurance . What

43:19

I learned from this is definitely the locums

43:22

situation . So I'm going to be contacting

43:24

my broker right now and be like yo what's the deal ? I've

43:26

been in locums for the past five years . What's the scoop

43:28

?

43:28

But I appreciate it . You should be fine , though . You

43:31

have a policy , so it should be

43:33

automatically renewable and non-cancelable

43:36

. You just want to make sure that

43:38

you're not under insured

43:40

.

43:43

Look at that . We need to do

43:45

another episode where you like , deep dive me . That's

43:48

what we should do . Like , I have all my financials

43:50

, I'm not going to hide anything from you guys guys , I'm

43:52

not going to hide anything from you guys . I may redact , like

43:54

, my social security number because I don't want you guys to

43:57

create another account for me or get a HELOC

43:59

under my name and

44:01

stuff , but that's what we're going to do next

44:03

time is seriously have you on and kind of do

44:05

a deep dive on my disability

44:07

insurance and tell me if I'm getting screwed or not .

44:09

I'm happy to do it babe .

44:11

All right . All right , dr Stephanie . We'll talk to you

44:13

later .

44:14

Thank you for having me Love

44:16

what you guys are doing .

44:17

Thank you

44:22

.