0:00

Education in general. There has to be a barrier, because if everyone could go to med school, everyone would go to med school, right?

0:06

First is pre-rex, then there's the MCAT, then there's cost right, they're gonna put that in there.

0:11

But why does the cost have to exponentially increase? The body ain't mutating.

0:15

Everybody out there right now. You know, with your scrubs or backpack or shoes or car, you know the price tag of those things and if the value was lower you may not be as interested.

0:25

When you attach a cost to something, it looks better to everybody else.

0:28

I think people still attach that cost to medical school, so that's why these medical schools continue to adjust the cost as they're moving forward.

0:35

So, yes, the body is not mutating, but society is.

0:38

Interest rates are they're gonna continue to go up?

0:40

Hey, we talk about locum tenants a lot on this show, Renee and I.

0:44

We've been doing it for well over 10 years now.

0:47

So if you're curious about locum tenants and how it might fit into your career, check out locumstorycom.

0:54

That's locumstorycom, and you'll see all the different reasons why physicians choose locums and how it works for them.

1:02

Find out about jobs, taxes, travel and, to me, most importantly pay.

1:08

Visit locumstorycom to learn more what's good everyone.

1:14

This is Dr Ne, host of Docs Outside the Box.

1:17

Listen, this is a special episode.

1:19

This is a collaboration between Docs Outside the Box and my favorite organization, the organization that got me through medical school socially as well as academically, the one, the only the Student National Medical Association.

1:31

And guess what? Next year will be 60 years of the amazing work of the Student National Medical Association, and we are joined by the one, the only, Dr Love.

1:43

Anani, Dr Love, tell them who you are and then we're gonna jump right into this.

1:49

Hello everybody. It's the Docs Outside the Box family.

1:51

This is crazy to be on the podcast on this side.

1:53

My name is Dr Love Anani. I am the professional board member to the EC for S&M A year 23 to 24.

2:01

We're hype about the 60th. I'm hyped to be here.

2:04

For anyone who listens to the podcast, yes, I am the doc with the lucid that need me talking about it's me.

2:11

I will throw it out there.

2:15

I gotta give you props for not being anonymous, because a lot of people, once they get to that point, they're like I'm gonna come on as Dr X or just don't say my name.

2:23

But yes, you do drive a lucid, which is higher in cost than a Model X plaid, but it's dope and I've seen it driving around.

2:31

It's amazing. Yours is white or black.

2:33

Black, black, oh black, everything so you are go ahead go ahead.

2:38

I feel like the car is flashy, it's out there.

2:41

I can't hide it anymore. I need the world to know.

2:44

The secret was weighing on me heavily and I feel like I had to step up for the lucid owners who listens to the podcast.

2:50

And here you talk now.

2:52

There's not that many. It's very infinitesimal how many lucid owners there are.

2:57

It's real small.

2:58

So how many years in before you got your lucid which anybody who doesn't know lucid is an EV is out there how many years in before you decided, hey, I'm going to purchase this car.

3:08

Years, is it? I became an attending 2015.

3:11

And I did not buy it until 2021.

3:16

No, 2022. It's only like a year and some change.

3:18

Basically, once our cars were fully paid off, we got my wife a new car.

3:24

The kids started to grow. I decided, hey, I need a electric vehicle now.

3:29

It's about time we're stable on everything.

3:31

And I actually Google Tesla.

3:34

I was going to go to Tesla route and I was like, no, no, no, I've been saying I want a luxury car.

3:38

I thought I was going Lexus my whole life. And then I looked up luxury EV and lucid popped up.

3:45

I looked into the whole company and what they were doing, found out there one motor trend car of the year.

3:50

I was sold right there. Oh my God, here we go.

3:52

I was sold. That was you. I was sold All right.

3:55

I'll be really honest at every point. The car is better than the Tesla.

3:58

I'll be very honest with you. It's nice. The question is are you all going to be there in five years?

4:02

So I'm teasing.

4:05

I'm teasing, it's real talk. I can't even handle that Like it's real hey the way how these EV companies are like.

4:10

They come out but you don't know if they're going to finish, but at least they deliver for you.

4:14

I've seen the car, I've been in the car. It is amazing, it's great.

4:16

The reason I asked you that question, y'all, is because I just want y'all to know that, like Dr Love is the specific is doing the things that specifically I'm talking about, which is he can afford anything he wants, but he can't afford everything.

4:30

So you wait until you get to a certain point in your career.

4:33

Maybe your loans are paid off, or maybe you reached a certain career trajectory, maybe you've gotten a certain promotion, or just maybe you just reached a certain net worth, right.

4:41

But you put in the hard work first and then you said, okay, listen, this is the car that I've always wanted, or this is the car that I want.

4:47

Let's go ahead and make it happen. And, if I understand you correctly also, isn't this car specifically for business only?

4:53

So you've put in a part of a LLC also, I did do that part of the LLC, because my hospital where I work from where I live is 40 minutes just about, so I felt like I was polluting the environment every day, and at the hospital I'm also the medical director.

5:08

So I was going for meetings multiple times a week, driving home to work, and I just felt like I was going, oh poor earth, poor earth.

5:15

All right, keep going, I'm listening. Hey look y'all. I'm one of those conscious people I'll be looking like.

5:19

Look when it's 50 degrees, when it's 60 degrees in December.

5:22

You know there's a Prius, you know there's Prius. Right, that's far cheaper.

5:25

But keep going. But if I'm going to not pollute the earth, I'm going to not pollute the earth in style, so other people can say you know what I'm not going to pollute the earth either.

5:32

And no one looks at it and even says, yeah, I'm going to do that.

5:36

But you look at it, loosens. You say you know what I might need to better the earth, and then that's what I'm doing now.

5:42

And I'm doing that through my business that covers all those miles.

5:45

I use Stride for my app. I was into the other apps Y'all suggest.

5:49

Stride was free and keeps track of the miles.

5:53

I love it. So basically, the mileage that you use to drive back and forth, all of that stuff gets accumulated and becomes a tax write-off.

6:00

Make sure the total amount of taxes that you have to pay, that decreases your taxes by a certain amount.

6:06

That car, the payments, a certain portion of that is decreased by a certain amount.

6:10

You're doing it the right way, I think.

6:12

Yeah, y'all do it better though. I heard y'all last podcast because I'm an avid listener Y'all 100% like not touching the Tesla unless you're going somewhere.

6:20

I'm not 100%, but I make sure that when I do my taxes I'm honest.

6:24

You know I'm knocking right off 100%. I will say for personal use it was used 20, 30% of the time.

6:29

Whatever can subtract that amount.

6:32

I still think it's the smarter way to do it right, oh yeah, which is let your business pay a certain part of your car because you need to use it.

6:37

These are the things that I just think we don't get those lessons when we're younger, right, and we learn through the school of hard knocks.

6:44

You may find out 10 years, in 15 years, from one of your partners in the surgeons and I was like, but you was doing what all along?

6:49

Why did you tell me Right? So you found out pretty early in your career and I really applaud you for that, because that's really smart.

6:58

And the reason why I started off there is because this episode is about really the financial implications of going to medical school or even any type of health professional school, and what that means for you while you're training, after you're training and then while you're working, because whether you're in nursing school or you're in medical school or you're in respiratory therapy school, like the cost of the cost of admission is like exponentially, on a yearly basis, getting worse.

7:27

And I'm just going to start off with some stats. Hold on a second, let me get some stats up in here, man, because you know I'm a stat person.

7:33

If you look at the stats right now, medical school graduates owe a medium average of $215,000 in total educational debt.

7:40

So that's pre-medical debt included, right?

7:42

So that's college and med school right.

7:44

Now. If you're talking about just debt in general by itself, people in medical school, if you don't include medical school, if you just include sorry, if you don't include undergrad, it's $200,000 of just debt, right.

8:00

And then what we're finding out from these stats is that that debt, that financial burden, is actually playing into what medical students decide to do in terms of where they're going to practice, like if they're going to go to a rural neighborhood or if they want to go practice in an inner city.

8:17

Right, like me, I was. I grew up in Irvington, newark, inner city areas and I made it it's the tough decision that when I finished training, I can't go back there because I can't afford to live there and still pay off loans.

8:28

So I went to a rural area which wasn't in my plans.

8:31

It was a great experience, but finances played a part, right, it may even affect what specialty you go into, right, if you're going to go into family medicine versus a subspecialty, it's going to affect that.

8:43

It may affect how quickly you get married.

8:46

Oh yeah, oh yeah, and definitely have kids. And definitely listen to those numbers.

8:49

A lot of the people listening to this episode right here right now, a lot of people on the S&M side, heard those numbers and two words popped in my head Thank you.

8:58

Light work to 15.

9:00

Okay, that's it for undergrad and that's good combined Light work.

9:05

I mean, what would you graduate with? Undergrad was a hundred and men's school was 300k 400 for you just alone.

9:15

Yeah, yeah, 215 light work. I'm that's.

9:18

That's back in the day. So I know Folks now are like really feeling it.

9:24

So yeah, that's. And if you think about it to me, all right.

9:27

Undergrad if you know my undergrad, I'm gonna save my undergrad because I sit on the board.

9:32

I don't need y'all blowing them up on like the socials.

9:35

I.

9:36

Know you since undergrad everybody. Just so y'all know region two.

9:40

That's how we do. I can't.

9:42

I can't name the school. You don't mean to name the school, right?

9:44

No, I know cuz.

9:44

I don't need y'all. Okay, y'all know me, you know the school, you can Google it, you can look at me up.

9:48

You can find it easily by need y'all to do somewhere, can give y'all all the answers to the tech.

9:51

Expensive private school is living you like that they're expensive.

9:54

Yeah, they come. Yes, they come to, they come to events.

9:57

They will be there this year at the SNMA annual medical education conference.

10:01

But 25 a K a year for that school is Great, if you can come out after that.

10:06

So that's why the hundred didn't like phase me. And then men's school.

10:10

Again, 300 is light work.

10:12

So let me. Let me ask you a question, right so, going through college, what role did your parents play in your in finances?

10:21

Like, did they? Did they contribute, or were they just kind of like you go into college?

10:25

That's amazing. I'll drop you off.

10:27

See you later.

10:33

My mom full Nigerian immigrant.

10:37

Her role was let me get you to college, but we gotta figure out how to pay for it later.

10:41

So the fast but came in.

10:43

You know, I'm one of those immigrant children. Hey, mommy, how much you make this year?

10:47

All right, what'd you do this year?

10:49

How would you donate? All right, hey, sign here like that was me, right, like.

10:52

I did your parents. Oh yeah, same. Oh yeah, oh yeah, cuz they don't understand faster and they're like why they?

10:57

Why they? In our business I get yep.

10:58

Yep, yep. And then when it came out, like you know, the school had to make you pay something based on what you submitted and she Like this it can't be less.

11:08

I'm like my school said. So she did have to pay something, right yours at the pay, that minimum, like maybe 2k a year or 4k a year, and then the school would fast for the rest of it.

11:18

But yeah, no, that was, that was her involvement throughout the entire thing and it meant school was so did what?

11:25

so obviously you tell your parents, or you tell your mom, I got into medical school, mm-hmm, what?

11:31

So when you're doing the whole thing, it's, it's like you don't even mention the finances here to your mom at that point, right.

11:35

You're just like I'm going to medical school and that's it.

11:38

Oh yeah, I mean, she told me that was the same conversation. Yeah, it's the same difference.

11:40

Yeah, you're going, you're going.

11:44

She had no clue. She had no clue. Is she in medicine at all or nurse, nurse, nurse, she's nurse, okay, so she kind of knows that it's expensive, but she doesn't know the exact finances and so forth.

11:54

And I feel like no one knows, because Lots of the expense when you break down those loans for men's school is you do have tuition as a hefty amount but it's obviously lots of room and board in there.

12:04

Cost of living things at the school has to help you supplement because you ain't got no job.

12:08

You can use a little Tony or Albert, you can use a little Tommy thing in there if you want to you and you know you ain't got no job.

12:15

So why?

12:16

are you talking out? Why are you talking, alfred? That's.

12:23

But yeah that we they have to supplement those things.

12:25

So if you're like me in the Washington DC area, a little heavier, then if I did do men's school out in Idaho no shade of Idaho, y'all cost of living just low.

12:34

That's all.

12:35

That's all and you went to medical school at the Howard University amazing, amazing history, amazing medical school in Washington DC.

12:45

So you know the the reason I asked that question is is very similar.

12:49

I did the fast for paperwork from my family.

12:51

My parents didn't really understand that stuff, right, I bought for my parents a blue collar, my mother's a nursing assistant.

12:57

My dad was like in in, he was in like electronics.

13:01

He would fix like the big Computer sorting machines at banks, right, so you know the check sorter.

13:06

So if they would break he would go and be on call and fix those machines and stuff.

13:09

You know. But I did the fast for paperwork, like you said, for my parents, and then sign here and I graduated from from college with $25,000 in debt.

13:19

So this is in 2000 and I was like I thought that was the end of the world.

13:23

And then you know my parents would contribute a little bit to it.

13:27

But that was it right, because when you look at the fast before them, you realize how little or how much your parents make, right, yes, and it's either.

13:36

It's a very sobering conversation, particularly when you are, you know, at a very, at a private institution.

13:41

You find out like how much you know your colleagues or your, you know your co-workers or your cut, you know how much are the people in your school, how much they're make their parents are making, right?

13:49

And when I graduated, I was like, oh man, like 25,000, I was a lot, until I went to medical school.

13:55

Just the same way. I told my parents I'm going to medical school, there was no discussion about finances.

14:00

They had no clue. They didn't ask it's not like they didn't care, but I'm sure they were just like, what are we gonna contribute?

14:05

Yeah, we'll be there, we'll be there for you will help you get there and all those different things.

14:09

But you know, and I remember, like taking out the first semester or the first year, like it was like almost 40k, you know, yeah, and it's like it took me four years to accumulate $25,000 and just like that, I just doubled that, if not, right, mm-hmm, and that was crazy and I just I didn't know the implications of it.

14:29

I just knew that this is what it takes to graduate.

14:31

That's it.

14:32

Yeah, you know and I'll be, you go ahead. And that's why when people always ask me like, oh, when in residency, when we ever get to that portion, like, oh, slave labor, you're getting, you getting, you don't get paid enough, blah, blah.

14:43

I remember when I got my residency you know those annual, how much it get paid.

14:47

I remember filling out those fast as a pre-med and we're telling myself, I'm gonna be paid more than my mother and my first job annually.

14:55

And that's why I never complained about my residency salary.

14:58

I was like, hey, we gonna make it work.

15:00

She made it work, me and my sister and her.

15:03

Can you, can you say that again?

15:05

Say that again because I think sometimes people don't understand, because there's also a section on the social economics of medical school.

15:11

Yes, right, and the majority, this thing keeps the Social economics guys.

15:24

I want y'all to hear that, like first-year residents, if you think about how much money a first-year resident makes in comparison to what an attending makes, or even comparison to what, yeah, just someone in general public makes, it's not that much.

15:36

And and the fact that that there is in makes more money than your mother's annual salary.

15:42

That speaks to the socioeconomics right of where you come from and stuff.

15:46

Yes, and when I qualify excited.

15:49

You know I was the resident. I definitely understand the hard work it's when you factor in the hours for how much you get paid.

15:54

But if you just look at base salary off rip for a year I was making about Things like 5k my first year more than my mother did annually.

16:04

And you know your residency get salary goes up.

16:06

So by the end I think I was like nearly 10k more than she was annually and I was just like you know, yes, I'm putting in 70 80 hour work weeks, yes, but I'm not gonna complain about it because who am I going to the person making less than me annually?

16:20

So, yeah, you had to Shit.

16:22

I shifted my mindset to. This is where we are now.

16:25

You've already ascended to that place you were talking about to make more than your, than your mother.

16:30

Now you can continue to go up that mountain.

16:33

That's why I'm pushing myself there. I'm sure y'all did exit interviews, right?

16:36

So like as, or how about this? Even before exit interview, right, like you have to be like thinking, okay, listen, like like I'm accumulating a ton of debt, did there was there any Thought process of like I just want to do maybe primary care or maybe I want to go into subs, I want to subspecialize?

16:56

And If you did think that, did it have anything to do with your debt?

16:59

Or you're like your economic status growing up?

17:02

Tell me about that, those decisions to go into ER.

17:05

So you do have those exit interviews where you know, hmm, every school I think your fourth year in med school that to sit you down, I think even having an undergrad, you take federal loans.

17:13

You gotta have an exit and like, hey, you owe this much, don't default, please.

17:17

This is your interest, you know, this is how you pay, etc. Etc. When I chose ER and I tell people this hand to God every time I had zero clue of the annual salary, zero word, zero glue of the annual salary.

17:31

All right, I chose ER one.

17:33

I wanted to be the jack of all trades, master of none.

17:36

That I love that aspect cap.

17:39

It's bad, I swear it.

17:41

You can ask anyone to. It is the only specialty that I know where I can see a hundred percent of patients who come to me and not ask them directly to their Face how much money you got on you.

17:52

You know I'm saying so, I never have to do that and that was my thing.

17:57

That's the reason why you went into it that I was me and then number cap yeah it was totally don't hey, you know, look at every personal statement.

18:04

Like in my life, the only time my family never got stopped by a little lady at the Excuse me, miss hanging for a little.

18:12

How much money you got today. Go, copays of the ER is the only place when it's like all right, thank you for coming in.

18:18

You know your bill will be sent to you. You can get full care.

18:22

Even yesterday I saw a man you know all you need to.

18:25

He told me straight up, trying to get to Wisconsin's cold outside.

18:28

All right, you know how much I charge them. I don't know.

18:30

You use your turkey sandwich, sit here, you're medically checked out, you're good to go.

18:35

So when I found out what the salary was, I definitely was like dope.

18:39

But to me going into medicine, I assumed which is a bad assumption, y'all cuz I know now different every doc at minimum made a hundred K at minimum.

18:48

I, like that was. I thought that was the floor. Going into medicine was a hundred K.

18:51

So I knew where my loans were and I kind of told myself All right, you know, if I live like a resident, 10 years of you should be paid off or five years you paid off.

18:59

I did terrible math, not factoring other things, but I assumed it would be paid off.

19:04

I have never met a doctor 20 years into their Job, regardless of specialty, say man, these loans are still kicking my butt.

19:13

So I knew it was gonna be paid off. So I just chose specialty I wanted to do and not the one that was gonna get it paid off the fastest.

19:22

Fair enough, and when I was saying cap, you know I'm just teasing you and everything.

19:25

Oh yeah, you know who do you think that's a disadvantage though for feet, for people like, particularly, you know, students who may come from a similar background, where Immediately as soon as you graduate from medical school, you're making more than your family members, right, and that's like, for example, like me, when I first started at Morehouse, I was making what my first year was like $39,000 a year.

19:45

You know, I was literally at what my, my dad was making, maybe a little bit higher, and stuff like that, and you know it was just, I Was fine, but I also knew that I was ducking calls from Sally Mae, like they were calling me like yo, you know your grace period is up, right, like, and you know, we know you got the coupon book.

20:04

We haven't gotten any of the coupon pages back when you paying and I'm like Yo, I can't afford to pay this right now, so I'm gonna call you back right.

20:16

And you just keep doing it over and over and over again.

20:18

Like, do you think that kind of going into medical school or going to health profession school is just kind of like, listen, I got the grit, I got the determination and this is what I've always wanted to do, nevermind what the financials of what this is gonna be?

20:34

Do you think that you should still have that type of mindset which is like, don't worry about the money, it'll take care of itself, you just try to get in and you graduate and you be all right, like do you think that's the wise choice to do?

20:46

I think it's the lifelong choice to do.

20:49

If you, at the end of your day, want to be happy with the specialty you're in, how much you're making in the life you're living, I think that's the decision you have to make, because you may make a decision that will make you not happy in the long run.

21:04

I know there's someone out there listening to life. I hate when you're all positive about things.

21:07

man, Keep going, don't move on. I know there's someone out there listening to life.

21:09

I know there's someone out there listening to life. Why are you all nice and stuff?

21:12

I hate when you write Go on, I'm just saying someone out there is gonna be like, man, I don't care, as long as I make 400K, I don't have to be happy, no matter what, and that money's gonna be, and you're right, that money will make you happy in probably a lot of things.

21:22

But what does you have to do to get that 400K?

21:24

And I'll tell you right now this is not cap.

21:27

I don't care what your specialty is.

21:30

When I call in all these five figures, six figure specialties, at three o'clock in the morning, they don't still sound happy anymore.

21:36

So I'm just saying it doesn't matter.

21:39

Trying to get a hand surgeon in to come in for a hand injury at two o'clock in the morning.

21:43

It's like that's pulling teeth.

21:45

I've had tips of fingers hanging off. You know they say just sew that up and wrap it up, since the office I'm like it's hanging, he cannot, he cannot extend it.

21:53

You know what you said. So you got a hand, you got it.

21:57

Document hand surgeon told me to do did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did.

22:01

Yeah, yes, y'all know who you are.

22:03

Y'all know who you are and be happy.

22:05

And you know I've talked to every specialty at three o'clock in the morning because I need you for something and it's rare that that person is happy.

22:13

Every single time I call them and you know it may just be called right, but do something that's going to fulfill you, that's going to make you smile, that you can write a book about that.

22:22

You could be on a podcast on after you were up 12 hours afterwards to talk about it because you're so happy.

22:28

That's what you should do. I had this joke.

22:31

I tell all my mentees and I'm going to ask you the same question Amy or Dr Ney, when are you going to pay your light bill off?

22:37

Oh, at the end of the month.

22:41

Yeah, when is your light bill going to be zero?

22:44

You're not going to owe anymore on your light bill. When is it going to be zero?

22:47

It never is. Basically, exactly, that's how I treat it student loans Amen, it's bill of code I pay it.

22:54

I pay it away.

22:55

Like some people, like you know, calendar is five more years, three more years, and sometimes I think that makes us like really anxious.

23:00

But if you think about it as like do you have enough to pay it?

23:02

Yes, can you pay it? Yes, did you pay it?

23:05

Yes, that's it. At some point it will disappear, it will dwindle down, it will go away.

23:10

You know, we pay so many bills in our life every month, not even thinking twice, and I'll pay it for the rest of my life.

23:16

Light.

23:17

So your family's goal because your wife is also a doctor, y'all Make sure he understand that His wife is also a doctor, y'all.

23:22

So y'all got debt right. So your goal is not to get it paid off, like you don't have like a timeline in terms of trying to pay it off early.

23:32

So we had to estimate. But we didn't aim for early.

23:35

So we sat down and we're like, all right, well, why is the doctor too?

23:38

But she had the BSMD at Howard's look up that program.

23:42

Two years of undergrad, four years in med school.

23:45

So her first two years of med school was undergrad rate right.

23:48

So hers was lower. So we basically said, all right, boom, yours paid off.

23:52

Let's try it in five years because it was way lower.

23:55

If we can aim mine for 10 years post-attending ship, right.

24:01

I think everyone should know that. I don't think you should be counting your years of residency as paying off your loans.

24:07

That's minimum. Don't let Sally May come find you or make phone calls, payments, they come post-attending ship.

24:13

Yeah, they come 10 years post. That was it and it was like that's when we think we should do it.

24:17

We weren't rushing. 10 years seemed appropriate.

24:20

We did the calculations, that's fact and we're on track.

24:23

That's the standard plan, right yeah?

24:26

Oh no, we did income-based, income-based.

24:29

You ain't say all that.

24:30

All right, good, but don't they change it?

24:32

based off of your combined income now.

24:33

Yes, and so when the income skyrocketed, let's just say my current payment has multiple more than my residency payment.

24:42

However, remember y'all, your income base is based off your income, not your business income or the dividends you get from your business, so it-.

24:51

Iris, come get this guy. Come get this guy. Right now it's I see the payment's a lot lower.

24:58

But we inflated it. So I think we're gonna be done in eight years now, because 10 years post-resident attending we're 2025.

25:05

And I think I'm gonna end in 24. So we did it right on time.

25:09

I do pay way over what they wanna pay, because they will hand you 20 and 30 year plans everyone because they need that interest payment.

25:17

That's what they need, yo. Let me tell you something right now.

25:20

So when me and Renee got married we combined our finances almost $700,000 in debt.

25:25

They both have each of us on the 20 year plan.

25:27

So we went into a calculator and we put in all our debt in.

25:31

We had similar interest rates and everything.

25:34

Yo, by the time 20 years was done we would have been at like $1.2 million of principal and interest and watching.

25:44

Watching. You know what they did to me? Because I would pay it off by hopefully, june next year.

25:48

Why did my minimum payment amount drop suddenly?

25:51

It was almost rafting.

25:53

They tried to entice you. Like we know you want that lucid Could just drop that payment a little bit long.

25:58

We'll extend you out to 2057. You can just.

26:01

I was like I see y'all, I am not. This amount is locked in the Anani finances.

26:06

I am not decreasing this amount.

26:08

It's gonna be knocked out. But like they want that interest, it's how they make money.

26:11

Capitalism, I'd love it.

26:14

All right, y'all, this is Dr Nate. I've been doing low-contentance trauma surgery for well over 10 years and I haven't looked back since Best combination of lifestyle and income that I could ask for.

26:24

Now, for you, your needs, your wants, that's gonna be different than mine.

26:28

Maybe you want more control over when you work or even how much you work, or, look, you're just trying to make more money to pay off those damn student loans.

26:37

Now the other thing is pay attention.

26:39

The average locums doc gets paid at least 33% more than your average employed doc.

26:45

You got your attention now, so look, I get it.

26:49

Sometimes the hardest part is where do I start?

26:51

You start your research at locumstorycom.

26:54

Once again, that's locumstorycom.

26:56

It's an unbiased educational resource about locum tenants.

27:00

There you're gonna find stories about the different reasons why doctors choose locums and how it works for them.

27:07

Locumstorycom has tools that let you explore locums, pay demand for your specialty and even compare different locum tenants agencies.

27:15

So, look, stop sitting on the fence or just thinking about it, start doing.

27:21

Do your own research at locumstorycom.

27:24

Once again, that's locumstorycom.

27:27

It's easy. So I think you definitely have a different perspective on things because it looks like you knew the money was gonna be there.

27:36

But for you the goal was I wanna be a doctor, I'm gonna be a doctor, financial wise, because, like, I think there's something to be said for if you didn't spend that much, if you didn't spend a lot of money growing up, or if you didn't spend a lot of money while you were trying to get into medical school, usually when you jump into new money, it's not that big of an issue afterwards, right.

27:57

That's kind of like me and Renee, like we didn't spend much money. So now that we got a lot of money, budgeting is actually easy for us because we don't really spend money at all.

28:04

But for you, you look at it as the money will take care of the loans eventually, not stress about it, whereas for me, I think there was like a very visceral pain point, which was I don't wanna live in rural America.

28:17

I wanna be close to my family and I feel like it's impinging on the way how I wanted to live.

28:23

So I just knew that that was the pain point. I needed to pay that off.

28:27

For the folks that are listening right now, you're starting to see more tweets.

28:34

You're starting to see people on social media talk about like yeah, I'm getting towards the end of my fourth year of medical school and I didn't realize the implications of what I got into.

28:42

I may have some regret, but I'm still gonna keep moving forward.

28:45

Or you have some people who are in residency. They're like yo, why don't they just increase our pay?

28:49

They got the money to do it. Why don't they increase our pay?

28:52

To those who say things like that it can't just be like yo, don't worry about that, just graduate.

28:58

What are your thoughts on the current situation where, literally, there's a study that says that next year the average we're at 240 or 250 for average student loan debt which is graduating, medical school and undergrad, but they're saying it's gonna jump to $300,000 in a year.

29:15

What are your thoughts on that? Because, Like you, had a lot of student loan debt but during that time the average was a lot lower.

29:22

Same thing with me I had a lot of student loan debt. I Borrowed way more than what the average was, just because of the socioeconomic type stuff.

29:28

Yeah, what do you say for people like that, who are just like yo, like bing, bing, bing?

29:32

It's a problem for me. I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it.

29:34

What do you say for them?

29:36

You're right to think about it. You should think about it, but I guarantee you every salute, not guarantee my thought process, and why I didn't, you know, think about it too much is.

29:45

Every answer you have is Gonna move the needle on something else, right?

29:50

So let's you, let's use what you just say.

29:52

Right, we were talking about our salaries in residency.

29:55

You said your salary comes using numbers you've already thrown out there.

29:58

It's about 39,000, right? Mm-hmm my salary in residency was 48,000, so I'm already 9k ahead of you, right?

30:05

So someone would say, hey, look, we increased the salaries of residency 9k in what?

30:11

Five, ten years? Like okay, but what they?

30:13

What happens? The cost of living that also went up. So I guarantee you, like our cost, they're gonna keep moving the needle.

30:18

But when they move that needle of, like all right, we're paying you more as a resident, everything else in society will probably go up.

30:24

So then that person's probably saying, well, why not match or why not match?

30:28

I Think it's possible. You know a lot of the residents you've been talking on this podcast as well.

30:33

You unizing out here. Someone on the West Coast did it with Britain, britain or UK residents did it.

30:40

Yeah, so it's possible that can get us more, but you always have to.

30:44

I'm the type of person believes your salary must always depend on where you want, on the totem right.

30:49

So, all right, there is someone tending out there who's at 100k right now.

30:53

Right, they're in family medicine or peas or something, because they are the salts of the earth and they're gonna have their wings immediately.

30:59

Right, they're at 100k right now. A resident can't pass that, so that that have to be our ceiling right.

31:05

So what is that?

31:07

8070 60, like I mean some residents, he's out there already paying 70.

31:16

We had Stephen Bradley on. He was saying as a fellow he was at 77.

31:19

I was like what, know that?

31:21

yeah, so there has to be a ceiling and it has to be on an under case so we can.

31:24

Can it move up? Yes, can they pay me more?

31:27

Yes, I was always in the camp of my pay good because, again, I was thinking about what my mama made my pay is good.

31:33

Make me work less, like I was never in the camp of you should be in the hospital 20 hours a day, each day, and only have one day off, and then on your day off you should be reading.

31:44

I'm not. I never understood that, because I feel like you get more learning as you do, so tell me enough to not harm people, and I will continue to learn for the rest of my life.

31:55

So trust the people, trust the lessons that you teach people and they will become lifelong learners as opposed to forcing them basically yes and right and like, especially for, like y'all surgeons, if you're not in the hospital, how many you're not getting a number of appies like right, I talked to all these mentees or, in the social specialties, counting cases, oh, I need a couple more c-section and a couple more this and it's like, like, was that?

32:14

Is that number found in something I know, if you do something a thousand times your expert or whatever, yeah, 10,000 hours or something like yeah, yeah.

32:23

I get that, but you only the 10,000 hours of residency you know say that's what like.

32:26

So instead of chasing the pay, I say let's chase the hours.

32:30

That's where I am on the residency lifestyle.

32:33

Here's my fear, and we're gonna get into why is medical school this expensive?

32:36

Which is where you understand that better than me.

32:39

But I just want to know, like, why is medical school so expensive?

32:42

Why is medical school expense exponentially getting better, if we know the statistics show that the majority of people who are in medical school come from you know, well-to-do families and so forth?

32:50

When we continue to make the price of medical school really high, it's gonna continue to be a barrier for people who one can't afford it and have to take out more loans.

33:00

They're gonna get intimidated by that. But then also, at the same time, not only are those people who might be able to get through and they will get through it's still going to be a major situation once they actually become attendings, because now you've taken someone out of a certain Social Economic status.

33:14

We know, we talk. You know what I'm talking about, right but, then when you become the beacon of light, the statue of Liberty for your family and now, not only are you, do you have to support mom and dad and possibly even family members it's like okay if salaries aren't keeping up with the exponential rate of how medical school is going.

33:31

It's like okay. So before I was poor, now I'm really poor and now I'm starting to make money, but it's not keeping up with what my student loans are like.

33:38

What are we really creating? Like, are we kind of forcing people who don't make money to be like sit down and you stay there and this is gonna can be, this is gonna continue to be a Lifestyle or an educational path for those who have the money and are willing to spend it and sacrifice?

33:53

That's my fear, right? It's like you look at people who are gonna have to do a lot of sacrifice to get up to this point, say no, you sit down, because now it's gonna be worth four hundred thousand dollars and we know damn sure you're not gonna be able to pay for that.

34:05

What you gonna do then? That's my fear.

34:08

I think your fear is right, but I think that's what society wants.

34:13

I think one when it comes to education.

34:15

Well, that's what United States wants, because in other countries is subsidized.

34:19

Yes, but then the whole system is subsidized, right?

34:22

So whenever people hit me with the other country subsidized, I'm like you're, you're darn right, the whole healthcare system is subsidized.

34:28

But I'll guarantee you right now, all you ortho pods out here and in the US are not making ortho pod money in the UK, right right, healthcare subsidized when your government controls the money.

34:39

And first off, let me just say is I here for anyone?

34:41

Come on, attack me? I'm not pro these things.

34:44

I just like pointing out these things to people right, love, you go out to take a stance and you go have to live in it.

34:49

This is what this show is about. Stop trying to play both sides.

34:52

Thank you, let's move on my stance at the end, but I'm gonna throw this out there.

34:56

So education in general has to be there, has to be a barrier, because to be a barrier there was no barrier.

35:04

Everyone do it.

35:05

That that's one thing All the people who control the education knobs understand, right, that's not, I shouldn't be that way, because I actually kind of think everybody it should be easy to get into medical school but hard to get out.

35:16

But that's another conversation, oh see, but so oh.

35:19

So y'all heard that he want to give you all the day he watch.

35:21

But I think they want there has to be a barrier, because when there is no barrier, things don't look as good and our society is like that.

35:30

I'm not sure. You know, people can blame the internet Whatever they want, but when you walk on a plane and you walk through first class, it's like what's well, seats in first class, sometimes maybe 16, right, they've already buried the number people that can get in that immediately off rip.

35:46

Exclusivity exclusivity, right? If everyone can go to med school, everyone would go to med school, right?

35:52

So they have to have one. They have to have that, that barrier.

35:55

You know, there's the MCAT versus pre-rex.

35:57

Then there's the MCAT, then there's cost right, they're gonna put that in there.

36:01

The one is the cost. Have to exponentially increase. The body ain't mutating Like I don't know.

36:07

Society is society is all. Right, you know I'm not gonna say the brand name or what I'm drinking right here, because they don't sponsor y'all, but this is cheaper as more than they used to be.

36:17

Right, you and I Hornet store for bags and chips a dollar In a quarter water.

36:22

Right, it's a dollar a bag.

36:25

Now for the one like, cost goes up.

36:28

So they're gonna keep moving things every single time.

36:30

If you look at your undergrad right now and I've worked with undergrads, right, I said that earlier Every year you got to sit and adjust your tuition to move up because there's a slider between who is gonna pay it, how are they gonna pay it and how are they gonna look at us when they pay it.

36:48

Right, everybody out there right now you know which your your.

36:51

You know the price tag of those things and if the value was lower you may not be as interested.

37:01

It'd be the exact same product you can look up.

37:04

Um, I think pay less did this before they went out of business.

37:07

Rip, uh, they made a shoe store and they called it like pelle.

37:12

Like they changed the name on it, but all the shoes this uh were still pay less shoes and they like changed the price tag.

37:18

People are coming on. These shoes are awesome. They're amazing. Blue, blue, blue.

37:21

They were all pay less shoes and they expose it to everyone.

37:24

They're like oh, you're kidding, well, blah, but pay less is gone now, but Nike's still out here collecting all them checks on sneakers.

37:30

I still can't get on the sneaker app. I'm buying off of uh whatever stock X for 200%, because when you attach a value, you bought my fake shoes.

37:40

Shout out to all people who rockin the grinches out there. I tried to get the reverse grinches on Christmas.

37:44

It didn't work. It didn't work. Um, but when you attach a cost or something, it looks better to everybody else.

37:50

I think people still attach that cost to medical school.

37:52

So that's why, um, these medical schools continue to adjust the cost as they're moving forward.

37:58

So, yes, the body's not mutating, but society is, interest rates are.

38:02

They're gonna continue to go up and that's what's sliding.

38:05

Everyone and students already doing it. The numbers show primary care is dropping and I think, if we want to get that number up, student loan forgiveness this ain't it, because, again, student loan forgiveness is finite, that is, you know.

38:17

Oh yeah, I'll give you 300k right now. Boom, you don't earn it for the rest of your life.

38:21

If you want to keep people going, the cost of primary care has to go up.

38:26

But the problem there is most of their funding comes from Government, because kids all have insurance, they all have state insurance.

38:33

These, these wellness visits don't pay as much as a post-op visit, and when we start to adjust that, then I think we'll start getting more primary care doctors.

38:44

I, um, I'm very interested. Okay, I'm not going to call colleges out, but I do know, like I've done some studies on it or Reading on it, and for what I found out is that the increase in tuition, for the most part, when you really do an investigation and you go through the red tape and all of that stuff Rarely is that stuff equating to an increase in pay for professors or an improvement in the education, like an improvement in like facilities specifically for education.

39:14

But a lot of times it goes into improving, maybe, the gymnasium, improving, you know, the sleeping facilities or dormitories or making a really nice cafeteria.

39:26

Because what we're seeing now is that there's like a steady state in terms of the competition between colleges and like there's only so much you can say well, professor a is going to be able to recruit people to come to the you know school a and professor b.

39:41

It's really about, well, how nice do you really want it in college, right, and that is ultimately becoming the uh, that's ultimately becoming the you know the deciding factors.

39:52

What kind of amenities do you have? Yeah, and in, in medical school it's like, yeah, like I get it, like I know I got to go through this, I know, I got to walk through the desert and I got to have cups of water in my hands.

40:05

I got to go through this. Yes, sir, may I have more?

40:07

Yes, ma'am, can I have more? Like that. But like damn, like, does tuition really have to exponentially increase on a yearly basis Just to prove that I want to be a doctor?

40:16

And I get it. We're never going to answer that question, but I got your point, but that's just.

40:20

That's just my mindset, which is it's like this is crazy, but like, let's, let's, let's get to the go ahead.

40:26

Go ahead what you want to say, and then we'll get to you.

40:28

I want to come to Tuition's. You are correct, professors who are on staff on often, just like everybody else, has a contract.

40:33

So it doesn't go up yearly. But the new professor getting recruited Usually has an increased base.

40:39

So and then that doctor, that professor was there before, or a doctor or teacher Comes back in a couple years and asked for more money.

40:45

So salary for any school is the number one driver of tuition and every professor may not get a increase in pay because the tuition went up, but it is the number one driver Inside knowledge.

41:00

Alright, what's the Student National Medical Association doing about this?

41:04

What are some initiatives that they have? And then also, you said pre-medical board member or, sorry, professional board member to the EC.

41:12

What does that mean? What does that do? And then tell us what SNMA is doing about this, the financial issues that are facing the students.

41:19

So I'll start with the second one, for professional board member to the EC.

41:22

The SNMA wisely, on their national board of directors, have four professional board members, because they need someone in the room to say, uh-uh, don't do that.

41:31

Because they need us to kind of say, hey, look, on the far end spectrum, this is how things are done in the medical field.

41:38

Or we were sitting in your chairs and this is the mistakes we made.

41:42

Here's how we're going to guide you, here's how we're going to help you.

41:44

One of those board members also sits on the executive committee, which is basically in function monthly, whereas the board meets quarterly.

41:53

So I have to go to the monthly meetings and again and be that same professional board member in the room and say, yeah, do that, don't do that.

41:59

That's smart idea, great idea. Or let me think about that, or let me bring you guys some resources that you may not have on this.

42:06

So, the professional board members to the EC I'm up there with the chair, the president, monthly, and the executive director and the whole executive committee staff.

42:16

So just to be clear, so everybody understands this SNMA is run by students, so it's run by medical students, Like they are actually studying for boards while they're running this organization and then you, as an alumni of medical school, as an alumni, more than likely, of the Student Medical Association, you sit on the board and you make sure that these students don't do crazy stuff and run amok.

42:39

Basically, we are there to be the wise sages in the room.

42:45

I'm supposed to be there. Yoda, I'm supposed to be there.

42:47

You know, anakin, I'm gonna. Anakin, I'm gonna go crazy, I'm supposed to be there.

42:50

Yoda, I'm supposed to be there. Obi-wan, I'm supposed to be there guiding them.

42:54

So that's what we're out there doing on a monthly basis on the EC, quarterly for the, my other colleagues.

43:00

But you still work with students on the whole board as a whole.

43:03

So SNMA is a whole student.

43:06

National Medical Association understands these costs of livings and everything else.

43:09

Right now, I feel like a lot of what they're doing is pushing the policy, because they know the numbers is driven by so many knobs, it's a lot harder.

43:17

So the National Medical Association does have their HPLA health policy and legislative advocacy committee.

43:24

We're out there on the hill, we're going to the Capitol, they're talking about these things all the time.

43:29

They make. They write letters, we publish them and we meet with people and we also have relationships with certain businesses and medical schools.

43:39

Right, so as an AMA partner, partners with AstraZeneca, we have grants from them, we talk with them, we send them what we do as an organization and they help do some of our funding.

43:50

Right, you know, tip for tat, we're here, we're together now.

43:53

Big business nonprofit organization let's change the world.

43:58

S&ma has their president sit on the NMA, which is the National Medical Association.

44:03

They're part of. Their board is like the student member Right.

44:06

So now they're on a bigger platform, bigger advocacy, going out there, working directly with physicians in those roles to do different things and, of course, we have several relationships with med schools around the countries.

44:18

I like to believe that the partnership S&MA has with a lot of the institutions has sponsored a lot of things to help with that debt that we talk about so much.

44:27

Right, give me an example. Like pipeline programs right S&MA, right now with the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

44:34

There is a scholarship out there right now.

44:38

You know you in terms of you just need to be a spokesperson.

44:41

That's your things. Be a spokesperson for your private college and be a spokesperson for damn.

44:46

Keep going. I'm just saying I know what the plugs are with.

44:51

American Board of Emergency Medicine is helping with a diversity scholarship for those who want to go into emergency medicine.

44:56

Let's lower that cost. Let's lower that barrier of entry.

44:59

So ABEM sent S&MA like a bunch of stuff for this scholarship they're having.

45:03

It's a help with publishers. Help us do this as partnering together.

45:06

Boom, we're going to take that, put it to our student interest group, send that out there and make sure people know that these things exist.

45:12

And I feel like that's the cost of applications in residency for like ER or for any specialties.

45:18

A lot of money we're talking like $5,000 to apply for these residencies at least.

45:23

And it's flat for everybody. But because for the more competitive ones which hopefully ER is this year my chest hurts already thinking about it For the more competitive ones, people are increasing the number of applications.

45:34

There's someone on the board right now who is applying to a specific skin related specialty, talking about dropping 80 apps.

45:44

You know, and it just goes up.

45:46

But that's what you have to do. I know no one applying to ortho, applying less than 20 programs.

45:52

You know like that's like the base, so you have to have your money up for all these things and they don't want no one wants these barriers of entry anymore.

46:00

A lot of our student National Medical Association chapters again work with other residency programs.

46:07

They have interest group meetings, they have Zoom meetings.

46:10

We have all these diversity initiatives now at these organizations.

46:14

I like to feel like S&M is a little kindling fire to keep those things going.

46:18

Yeah, I think it's really important to let people know that there's some active work on student National Medical Association to at least do their part in making sure that you can defray the cost, whether that's getting into residency or defray the cost maybe with trying to get into, like doing a sub -eye that may be subsidized like any bit counts.

46:38

And I think, from my perspective, I always look at S&M in terms of the social kind of bailout that I needed, right, because a lot of times you feel like you're on the island at your medical school.

46:49

You may feel like you're in a silo and it's great to kind of come back and meet with like-minded people who come from maybe similar backgrounds, who maybe have similar struggles, who can, you know, you give you great similar ideas on how to kind of make it your way through financially, socially or even just career-wise.

47:04

I think that's really for me, the key thing as to why we're giving back, at least from my perspective.

47:09

Now, renee, obviously, as a chairperson emeritus, obviously you know S&M means that much more to her because you know she is that's in her blood, it's in my blood, but it's really in her blood and stuff.

47:21

So that's really important.

47:23

I want people listening to really understand that there's some work being done by S&M to really help students get through this process with as little debt as possible, and I think that's ultimately like.

47:34

My message to people is that listen, like you know, when I did it, I remember when I looked at my application I'll end it like this when I looked at my application to apply for financial aid my first year, there's a space there that says that you know this is even before that there's like a schedule that says okay, you know you're going to need this much for books and it'll give you like an approximate.

47:56

You'll need this much for, you know, supplies, you'll need this much for an apartment in Kansas City, you may need this much for transportation, and it will give you like the total amount that you need, right.

48:08

And then underneath it says how much do you want to ask for?

48:11

And it's blank and it literally said you can put in like zero up to whatever you want and I put in maximum.

48:18

Right, that's what I wrote. I didn't even write at a dollar amount, I wrote maximum.

48:22

Give me everything Right, even though I was living in a place where I was paying $270 a month for a rent.

48:30

You know I had a used car and I was paying my dad back in the loans and stuff, like I was able to keep my finances low.

48:35

But I just always had the mindset of I don't want to have to ask my parents for anything, right?

48:39

Like I told my parents I was going to become a doctor and god damn it, I'm going to be a doctor and I'm never going to ask them for anything, not because they would throw it in my face, but if I knew, if I asked them for something, they would worry.

48:50

And I didn't want them to worry. I wanted them to know that he had this.

48:54

But in response to that, I ended up taking way more debt than I should have.

48:58

Right? I graduated 2006 with $240,000, which is way ahead than what the average medical student at that time is taking similar to you, right.

49:07

Like you are way ahead than what the average medical student should be taking in 2015,.

49:12

Right, but it just so happens like we come from backgrounds where we're just like look, I ain't asking my parents for nothing because they ain't got nothing.

49:19

I don't want them to worry and I'm going to figure this out and I sometimes want to craft a message for them to let people know like listen, try to decrease the amount of debt that you're taking out maximum on a yearly basis.

49:31

Try to decrease that and just also know that you're going to make enough, like you said after residency.

49:37

You're going to make enough to pay it back. The question is how fast do you want to pay it back?

49:41

The question is where do you want to be in your career and how much is debt?

49:46

How much is how much you make financial implications?

49:49

How much is that going to play into your career trajectory?

49:52

And that's all I'm saying.

49:54

You know there's a Nigerian slang out there, I'll call it African slang out there right now that I think I applied in med school when I was filling out that same application and I think, even though I know better now, I probably would still apply it now.

50:10

I can't come and kill myself, which means I wasn't made for this life to suffer.

50:19

You know like you guys hear that accent coming out.

50:23

Yeah that maximum out.

50:27

Would I have owed Sally May 20,000 less dollars if I didn't take it?

50:32

But we have changed a granular thing on the trajectory of Residency to where I am now as an attending.

50:42

Again I'd have 20,000 more that I would have paid somebody else I feel like right.

50:48

So you know we I come in missons a lot.

50:51

You know Don't go out there and buy a bottle every weekend after a test.

50:57

You know that's crazy. But If after one semester you need a little extra cash To just sit down with the, with the friends in toast, I Mean enjoy life shorts.

51:13

Guys, remember he's Nigerian. I just remember that he Nigerian.

51:18

You take an advice from a Nigerian, oh okay.

51:22

Which people have you never seen struggle for money?

51:28

Guys, check your Yahoo emails, your junk mail.

51:31

Okay, prince love.

51:37

Exactly, I can't kill myself. I'll go and take it from you before I kill myself, like I did it.

51:42

So, yes, dude, should you write maximum?

51:45

No, probably not. That's that that don't write maximum.

51:48

But should you write zero? Hell, no, like you know, like you got, I get it Halfway.

51:56

Just sit and tabulate your life.

51:58

You know we all play a little game house or a little thing would get moving everything and you've already planned when you want to have kids, what type of house you want living with city one living.

52:07

You can Google the average for all those things right now and determine how much you're gonna need to make and whatever, whatever, and your loans are gonna be there.

52:15

When people do a credit check, they separate your education based loans from your car loan, your unpaid City circuit city credit card.

52:26

You know, you know a lot of people know it's like a city out there you know, they can separate that debt.

52:32

And you know, even when we talk to you on finances, there's good debt and there's bad debt.

52:36

Education has never been considered bad debt and they always know you're good if you don't finish it off.

52:42

I look a Now.

52:45

If you don't finish, you've killed yourself.

52:51

Sneaker collection. Start selling sneakers a lot selling fake sneakers the doctor love because you'll buy it.

52:57

I need the certification. But if you don't finish, you know, should you open up that Yahoo email and start emailing people?

53:03

You might have to consider. But you have to know what you're getting into and so if you don't finish it, you need to find a job that's going to supplement those minimum payments.

53:11

That's why income based Exists, so you can kind of like live through it.

53:16

But just know, when you do income based You're usually stretching it a little longer because they want all of that interest.

53:22

So choose an amount that you can live off of that you'll be happy with that.

53:27

Maybe one new year's you can say hey guys, we're going to Colorado, you know something like that and in enjoy life.

53:34

Or Maybe you decide you want to come to the 60th annual medical education conference for SNMA.

53:41

I was wondering. When you go segue into that man, you leave it a mountain of cold.

53:44

What's the coming to it in New Orleans Easter weekend?

53:47

Right, maybe you want to use a couple of your loan dollars on that meter to come down there, get your battery reach or your office of diversity affairs should be paying for this already.

53:56

They should have what do you call earmarked money for this.

53:58

They should have, you know, certain states right now I will not let and I will not name.

54:02

I mean, I have those offices no more.

54:05

Get downloaded in Texas. Hey Apple, you know you need to do something.

54:10

Make sure that people in Texas could download this podcast.

54:13

Yo damn, I've passed the diversity filters.

54:18

It's not to people who listen to me, like on Google.

54:20

Apparently, google podcast is going away.

54:22

We have to use music come April.

54:26

Yes, I'll switch.

54:27

I'll switch Um, but like, yeah, earmarked that, come down, enjoy.

54:31

We start off talking about EVs. This is where you get your battery recharged.

54:35

Every conference point I would.

54:37

I would go there and be like I'm ready for the year, like I'd be hyped up, I'd be studying again, I'd be push myself you ready to run through a wall when you leave a Mac and for all those old heads were listening, attending.

54:49

So we're like, oh, I don't go to a make, no more, I don't have the hours my battery.

54:53

Well, you're missing out or you can help.

54:56

We do a lot talking about money. A lot of y'all have a little extra pocket change.

55:00

Five dollars, ten dollars. Here SNM is trying to do a campaign 600 for the 60th, 600 K for 60 years.

55:07

Price just went up. Y'all, you can donate.

55:10

You go to SNMA org right now, leave a donation.

55:13

$5 helps. I know it sounds corny, yours, listen to those things.

55:17

$5 ain't gonna help y'all at 600 K.

55:19

What if 600? What, what if 600,000 people gave $5?

55:23

Boom, we're already there, right?

55:25

And we know how many people listen to Doc's outside the box podcast.

55:29

We know people need them. Tax write-offs we know people know the game.

55:32

Just do a little write-offs the business five, ten dollars.

55:35

I know people got more than that. You're probably holding your Starbucks coffee right now with the extra espresso in it.

55:41

You can go one Lexus press, so don't need to SNMA boom.

55:44

Now I've done a good deed. Now you can feel good about yourself.

55:47

Please help us.

55:49

And there it is, everyone. This is the reason why, whatever event it is across the United States, you want to have a Nigerian as the emcee for that event, because they will get that money out of you.

55:59

Yo, they can convince they could. What did I say you could pinch?

56:02

Well, what was it? You could get water out of a turnip or something like that.

56:05

Yeah, yeah, I can sell water to a well.

56:08

You know I'm saying like, hey, well, these are the wells out doing you right now.

56:12

Your reserve is low. Don't you want to be the top well, the well that all the maidens and all the men come to?

56:17

First, get this extra water right here, boom there you go.

56:21

Boom.

56:22

Listen, guys, this is a message for everyone. But this you know, I know sometimes people will be like all this message is for minority.

56:26

No, this is a message for everyone. This is important, right, because more than likely to study show that that student who comes from minority background is gonna come into a Rural neighborhood and practice and within with a rural population or suburban population.

56:40

I practice trauma surgery mainly in rural neighborhoods and stuff, right, and I'm the only African American doctor there and stuff.

56:46

I don't have any qualms about that at all. I take care of them like they were my family and so forth.

56:51

So it affects everybody in so many different ways and stuff.

56:54

So it's very important that everybody take a listen to this, is very important that we all decide that we're gonna support this Organization because it really does great things and it's very inclusive.

57:03

I just leave it at that. So listen, doctor, love.

57:06

Where can people go to learn more about the 60th Anniversary SNMA, amac, and maybe even get in touch with you?

57:14

Tell them all of that before we end the show, all right?

57:16

so for the estimate tip. We're at there everywhere.

57:19

Twitter, instagram. Snma is the hashtag SNMA underscore official.

57:24

I believe all the information is there. If you're not on the socials, straight up internet SNMA org, go on the website.

57:31

Go under conferences.

57:33

Amic is right there. You can look to the right. You'll see all the donations.

57:36

You'll see all the links. We have business partnerships with Delta for lower costs to fly to New Orleans For all the Delta people who need the medallions points and sky miles.

57:46

Now you know those went up too, so you can use that link if you want to.

57:49

All the information is there. You want to get in contact with me?

57:52

I'm also on the socials. You can use the professional tag first T4d underscore dr Dottie.

57:59

I do work with Torford University as well and that's kind of the IG I post most of my information on.

58:03

You can also find me on Twitter evil, which is just love backwards underscore thoughts.

58:07

I don't post as much anymore. Are we allowed to call it Twitter?

58:13

Is it X?

58:14

now you can find me there, but my main goal between now and Easter is hustle up amic, everything you can hear from.

58:22

You can have SNMA attached to it in some way, shape or form, so keep your eyes open.

58:27

And there it is, guys dr Love, a nonni professional board member to the executive board with the student national medical association, and here we're talking about the financial implications of all of this debt in medical school.

58:39

Listen, make sure you check the show notes below.

58:41

You'll find all the links to everything that dr Love mentioned and also check out our previous episode.

58:46

Well, you'll find out what me, or how much me and dr Renee are Contributing to the student national medical association.

58:52

This stuff is important for everybody from every walk of life to understand the cost of medical school and what it means for people who are gonna come into your respective neighborhoods.

58:59

Make sure you guys check those out. We're gonna catch you guys on the next episode of Docs outside the box.