0:00

What is it that you think that doctors are missing

0:02

? Since you've been on the other side dealing with insurance

0:04

, I'm sure it denials people not listening

0:06

, not having enough compassion .

0:07

I think that the medical education

0:10

system and the healthcare system

0:12

train the humanity out

0:14

of doctors . The system is set up to

0:16

treat pathology disease

0:18

and that is all very important , but the

0:20

thing is that people are not containers

0:23

for pathology , they are people

0:25

. So yes , treat the pathology .

0:27

That's what you're saying , yeah .

0:28

But don't only treat the pathology . Don't

0:30

forget that you're treating a person .

0:32

It's a coping mechanism right . Even me as a trauma

0:35

surgeon . I see literally people minutes

0:37

from dying all the time . And it's like

0:39

okay , I'll see you later . You move on to something

0:41

else , but that patient , that family

0:43

, they're still holding on to that .

0:45

There's a balance , is what I'm saying . It's not all or nothing

0:47

. You can be an effective human and

0:49

an effective physician .

0:51

Folks , your exciting new medical

0:53

career it's just been hit with

0:55

a serious illness or injury that

0:57

stops you from earning a paycheck just when

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. It was good

1:42

, everyone . This is another episode of Docs Outside the

1:44

Box . I'm really honored , very excited

1:47

to have Kristen , as well as William

1:49

Flannery , also known as

1:51

the Glockham Fleckens , also

1:53

known as Lady Glockham Fleckens

1:55

. Dr Glockham Fleckens , I don't know

1:57

how many syllables you're going to have in that , but you

2:00

get so tired of saying that . Well

2:02

, do you ? get tired of saying it Because I'm sure how many times you

2:05

got to introduce yourself or you get introduced by

2:07

it , and someone is messing that up .

2:09

I enjoy actually hearing other people try

2:11

to pronounce it . That's a little joy

2:14

of mine .

2:14

So you can see the nervousness in them . You

2:16

did great . You see how many times they practiced it .

2:18

Yeah , that's right .

2:19

It does make people nervous .

2:21

Oh yeah , it just

2:23

felt like it sounds , it's easy .

2:26

If you're German .

2:26

To an ophthalmologist Exactly .

2:30

You know it's and I think let's just

2:32

start from there . You know I think that

2:34

the jokes , the

2:36

comedy skits , and I oftentimes blame

2:38

you guys as the reason why my productivity

2:41

goes down and stuff . Like I can't get anything

2:43

done because I'm watching your TikToks all the time and

2:45

I'm watching your podcasts right now all the

2:47

time and stuff . But

2:49

I'm really interested because they always say

2:51

what makes comedy so good is that

2:53

there's a lot of truth . That's set in jest

2:55

, right , Right . And the

2:58

skits that you're doing right now , whether it's on

3:01

insurance companies or residency

3:03

or whatever , it is right , Like

3:06

we're just in a different time with medicine right

3:08

. But if you were to , if someone

3:10

were to ask you like in general , look what does

3:13

your skits , what are your TikToks ? You

3:15

know the reels . What do they say

3:17

about medicine in general for physicians

3:19

? What would you say Are we in a good place ?

3:21

or bad place . I think

3:23

I

3:27

think we are at

3:29

a turning point right

3:31

now . I think that there's

3:34

a lot of

3:36

you know the old way that things have been

3:38

done , that I think physicians

3:41

have really participated

3:43

in building the medical system that we

3:45

have , like we're

3:47

part of what we've built

3:50

right . But now

3:52

you have a new generation

3:54

of physicians

3:57

that are early career

3:59

trainees , med students

4:02

. They're coming up , they're seeing all the problems

4:04

in healthcare Part of that's because of social

4:06

media and

4:09

are , I think they

4:12

know a little bit more the inner workings of

4:14

how the healthcare system's functioning and

4:17

what needs to change . And so I'm

4:19

actually I feel hopeful . Honestly

4:21

, I know it doesn't seem like that because

4:24

I have this character , jimmethy , that

4:26

has this the worst job in healthcare , which is working

4:28

for UnitedHealthcare . But

4:30

so sometimes my content can get a little depressing

4:32

, but my goal isn't

4:35

really to depress people . It's like to

4:38

be like , hey , look at this , look at this thing

4:40

that we can change , and

4:43

so I hope I leave people with

4:45

at least a little bit of optimism .

4:48

I don't know about optimism . I think that's

4:50

a stretch .

4:51

That's a stretch , a little bit of a stretch .

4:53

But it does point out like hey , this is actually pretty ridiculous

4:55

. Well , because a lot of the things In an early effective

4:57

way .

4:57

Yeah , well , and a lot of the things that With the healthcare

5:00

system , like I didn't know . Some of these things

5:02

, Like I didn't know that there was a ban

5:04

on physicians owning hospitals , Like

5:07

I didn't know . Yeah , yeah , there's

5:09

a moratorium .

5:10

I knew to start the laws and stuff , but I didn't know you couldn't

5:12

own a hospital stuff .

5:13

Really Wow . There

5:15

are some physician-owned hospitals out there , but

5:18

I forgot what year it was that

5:20

this went in . It's been like 20 years now , but

5:22

there was a moratorium on any more

5:25

hospitals being owned by physicians and

5:28

there's a lot of corporate interests to

5:31

keep it that way , as you can imagine , because

5:33

United Health Care is buying up hospitals

5:35

, private Equity is buying up hospitals , so

5:38

they really don't want physicians to be able to

5:40

own hospitals , but there's no good reason for it . So

5:42

it's topics like that that

5:44

I came across just in trying

5:47

to figure out , you know , some skits that

5:49

I wanted to do and people

5:51

email me and be like , hey , did you know that this

5:53

is the thing ? Like you should do a skit on this . So

5:55

I get some of my ideas from people just emailing

5:57

me and like the comments from my other

6:00

videos , and so I really

6:02

love those topics where

6:04

, like , even healthcare professionals

6:07

may not really know what's

6:09

going on under the surface . You

6:11

know that's where I really

6:13

enjoy bringing in the education

6:16

piece along with the comedy .

6:19

Yeah , and I think what's really interesting is the

6:21

younger generation , because

6:23

I'm like the last bastion of Gen X

6:25

, right , like I'm 78 , right , so

6:27

I'm like two years removed from being

6:29

a millennial .

6:29

You're almost a millennial yeah .

6:31

Right , almost , can we claim ?

6:32

you , can we claim you If you want to .

6:34

You know I'll put my hand up , you know

6:36

, but like I am like

6:38

that last generation , that's kind

6:41

of like that last , you know , those

6:43

last years where it's just like I'm still

6:45

close enough to be jealous of millennials

6:47

but also , at the same time , I still feel like

6:49

I can't exactly act like

6:51

a millennial because I feel like something will happen to me , whether

6:54

it's been , you know , through what has been beaten into

6:56

me through residency or

6:58

even fellowship and so forth . So there's a level

7:01

of almost like jealousy or just like , wow , that's

7:03

really cool that you guys grew up with the internet

7:05

or grew up nowadays , even , you

7:07

know , younger than the millennials . They grew up just over

7:09

sharing . So the ability for them to

7:11

talk about things and challenge things on social media

7:13

, like that skill , like it I

7:16

don't have that skill right , like they have that skill

7:18

, and I think that's really great because that

7:21

the folks who are even coming before them , they

7:23

get a view of things that they may not

7:25

necessarily got when I was training . Right , it's just almost

7:27

like everything is very gray

7:30

, so to speak , and like hard wall . It's

7:32

just about institutions and I think now

7:35

, with what you're doing and what other people are doing

7:37

in social media , like it really . It's almost

7:39

like you guys are bringing your own brand back

7:41

into medicine right , where , like

7:43

it's almost like you're walking around without , like

7:46

the largest logo on your white coat is your

7:48

hospital . But now it's like social media

7:50

allows you to kind of separate yourself from that and

7:53

put the brand on there so .

7:54

I think that we're in a very interesting time

7:56

for that , you know so

7:58

yeah , I think it's a it's , it's

8:01

really focused on like making healthcare

8:03

human again , right , and

8:05

that's a weird thing to say in the time of AI , but what I mean

8:08

is , maybe , maybe humane

8:10

is a better way to say it of like , hey

8:12

, we don't have to do it this way

8:14

actually . And I think that you know these

8:16

systems that are so difficult . They

8:19

thrive when people don't

8:21

feel like they can talk openly about them

8:23

, and so social media has been really useful

8:26

in kind of breaking that wall

8:29

and yeah , and letting people know

8:31

how things really are and share

8:33

with each other and have some transparency . And

8:35

then there's , you know , more power Within

8:38

the people when you can do that .

8:41

Hey there .

8:45

Hi how you doing good

8:48

, good , you got the kids

8:50

to sleep .

8:52

I hope so .

8:52

If not , they'll be coming down here any second .

8:57

So If there is in there in the door

8:59

, shut us , good enough .

9:02

That's what happens . So we get our editors to actually

9:04

edit out the banging on the doors and stuff .

9:06

Yeah .

9:09

Yeah . So let's ask you guys

9:11

a question , because I know you , you know the Super Bowl , just passing

9:14

the stuff and you know I find it interesting . Patrick

9:16

Mahomes wins the Super Bowl Texas

9:18

Tech . He didn't graduate from

9:20

graduate from Texas Tech or he left early .

9:22

We both did . He spent two years

9:24

there . Patrick Mahomes yeah , it's two years

9:26

there but that's where you guys graduated from . Yeah

9:30

, my adopted son Patrick Mahomes .

9:31

Don't even get him started , please . Oh

9:33

my god , I love him so much . He

9:37

is my Mahom boy , he's I

9:39

think it's like an unhealthy amount

9:42

of obsession .

9:43

I love him .

9:44

It's bad .

9:45

He's Jordan .

9:45

Problem .

9:47

Well , because , as a Texas Tech alum

9:49

, obviously like anybody

9:52

who went to Texas Tech has

9:54

adopted the chiefs as their team , that

9:57

being said any place that

9:59

he went . If you were to switch to go to another

10:01

team , I would follow Patrick Mahomes

10:04

. Oh

10:07

yeah , no , no , I'd wear

10:09

green . Yeah , absolutely I'd

10:11

wear whatever . Whatever the

10:13

color green is for the Jets , but anyway

10:15

, anyway , big fan .

10:16

Anything Patrick Mahomes does has to

10:18

be on our television . I was a

10:20

mess during the Super Bowl though he had to leave

10:23

the room I was so nervous I've

10:35

been trying to explain this to Kristen

10:37

because , she does not understand .

10:39

She doesn't have a competitive bone in her body , so

10:41

she doesn't , you know .

10:43

I do , but not about sports or games

10:45

.

10:46

So I was trying to explain fandom

10:48

to her .

10:49

Yeah .

10:50

And , and I think it's just

10:52

when you , you love a thing so much

10:54

like . For me it's like I love Texas Tech

10:56

. I really like that . We went there . I enjoyed

10:58

our time . That's where we met is a big part of our

11:00

lives . Sure , and so With

11:03

with Patrick Mahomes , like you have the most

11:06

famous football player Like

11:08

ever right now and the most

11:10

successful football player , the brown one

11:13

right . Oh my god , yes , that's , that's brown

11:15

.

11:15

brown ball elongated kind

11:17

of oblong With pig skin .

11:19

We've got two little pointy ends oh

11:22

yeah , okay , right yeah .

11:23

So the fact that you have this person , who is

11:25

such a huge ambassador To Texas

11:27

Tech , yeah it's just that's

11:30

partly why I love it so much , because , like he

11:32

, he's the most famous person

11:34

, one of the most famous people out there , and

11:36

he went to the same college that

11:38

we went to . That's that's . That's so

11:40

exciting .

11:41

It's so romantic .

11:43

Right , I mean , I'm never gonna explain this

11:45

to her .

11:46

I don't know almost as much as I

11:48

love you , christy Well

11:51

thank you Well , you guys

11:54

share Texas Tech .

11:55

We should try to say we can't

11:57

city because that's what we did our medical school . Yeah

11:59

, so , yeah , yeah . So you

12:01

guys are rooting for him too .

12:03

Yeah , no , now from there , after Texas

12:05

Tech , you guys met , then from there you guys

12:07

went to New .

12:09

Hampshire of all places . Yep , we

12:11

did . Went to Dartmouth .

12:14

Dartmouth .

12:21

Yeah , we saw uh boost .

12:23

Yeah there's a noose we did see a few of those

12:26

. Is that plural or ?

12:27

Meese .

12:30

My exactly so yeah

12:33

, we spent five years up there .

12:35

Yeah .

12:36

Five years and then and then moved on to

12:38

, to the place that has less snow but it's probably

12:40

more cold Iowa , no

12:43

. Iowa

12:45

polar , we we've lived through several

12:47

polar vortices .

12:49

But Dartmouth was so cold that we would walk in from

12:51

the parking lot where the student parking

12:53

was way out at the back . And you'd

12:56

walk into your building and by the time you

12:58

got there , your whole face is frozen

13:00

, your nose hairs . It's here , ducks .

13:03

Heaven forbid .

13:04

You washed your hair before you came to school , right ?

13:06

There's a lot of you have bicycles and

13:08

we we grew up in Texas , so it's like that's

13:11

not that problem guys .

13:15

You'd have been a little windchapped , I think , though .

13:21

Let me look , because I , we , me

13:23

and renee , we're talking about this , talking

13:25

about you guys , before the episode began

13:28

and you know like when she came

13:30

down the aisle my heart almost stopped right

13:32

Me , like

13:34

my heart almost stopped . But damn

13:36

, I

13:39

ain't never heard we're joe like I ain't

13:41

never heard of a girl kickstarting your damn

13:43

heart .

13:44

Sheesh . Well

13:48

listen , we got two little kids in the month before

13:50

we had taken on a mortgage . So this , I

13:52

wasn't about to let him get off that easy .

13:54

Oh no you don't exactly . You

13:57

get back here finish what you started

13:59

. That's right , right

14:01

, exactly , wow , so this is wild

14:03

.

14:04

So from you know , obviously on a serious

14:06

note , like testicular cancer , twice

14:09

cardiac arrest , after

14:11

what ? 10 minutes , um recovery

14:13

, full recovery , like there's a certain

14:15

side of medicine that you

14:18

guys see now , particularly

14:20

you , christen , that I think a lot

14:22

of docs don't get a chance to see . I know for

14:24

me , you know I haven't experienced it as a patient

14:26

, I'm like experienced that you know from my mom's

14:28

standpoint , or even renee from her

14:30

parent's standpoint , like what is

14:32

it that I think ? Or what is it that you think

14:34

that doctors are missing , since you've been on

14:37

the other side dealing with insurance , I'm sure denials

14:39

People not listening , not

14:42

having enough compassion , like specifically for doctors

14:44

, what is it that we're missing that we're not getting ?

14:46

from the other perspective , I

14:48

think that the medical

14:52

education system and

14:54

the healthcare system Train

14:57

the humanity out of doctors

15:00

, right , like that's you're

15:02

, you're encouraged to learn

15:05

to suppress your emotions

15:08

and suppress your empathy

15:10

and put things

15:12

in little boxes , and

15:15

it's , I think it's well intentioned , because the

15:17

intention behind it is so that you can do

15:19

your job , because you see a lot of really difficult

15:21

things and if you were to just fall

15:23

apart , you know you , you

15:26

wouldn't be an effective doctor . But

15:28

I think it kind of swung too far in that direction

15:30

. Right , and there's , there's

15:34

regulation is an option . Right

15:36

, there is , there's a healthy amount of , just like Understanding

15:40

your emotions , recognizing your emotions and learning

15:42

how to regulate your emotions in appropriate ways and at

15:44

appropriate times , and and that's what you should

15:46

be taught . But

15:50

instead it's just stuff it all down

15:52

and keep it in there and , you know , keep it to yourself and

15:54

try to forget about it and never talk about it , and

15:58

I think that does harm to Patience

16:01

and their families as well as to you all . Right

16:03

, like I don't think that's healthy for anybody . So I

16:08

think that the

16:10

system is set up to

16:14

treat pathology

16:16

right , and education is about

16:18

pathology disease . You

16:21

know sickness , what has gone wrong and

16:25

that is all very important and obviously like that's what At

16:27

the end of the day , that's what we're here to get rid of right

16:29

, but

16:31

the thing is that people are not containers for

16:33

pathology . They

16:36

are people . So , yes

16:38

, treat the pathology .

16:39

I see what you're saying yeah , but don't only treat the pathology .

16:41

Don't forget that you're treating a person you

16:45

know who has that pathology , who

16:47

is dealing with that pathology , and that comes

16:49

with a whole host of other Things

16:52

, and that person is connected to a whole host

16:54

of other people , who that is also , if that pathology

16:56

Is also affecting those

16:58

people in a different way , you know

17:00

. So all of those pieces are

17:02

just sort of , you know

17:04

, there's so much to learn about pathology

17:07

that that's what it , that's what it ends up being

17:09

100% of the time . And then your work hours

17:11

are so crazy , right , that you don't have time to

17:13

stop and reflect or feel your emotions or regulate

17:15

your emotions . So so I see how it all ends up

17:17

happening and I don't think it's

17:19

like malicious intent on anyone's

17:21

part . But , um , but that's that's

17:24

kind of the gap you know that gets created

17:26

is those are the types of things that fall by the wayside

17:28

.

17:29

It's like almost like a , it's a coping mechanism

17:31

, right ? Like even me . As a trauma surgeon

17:33

, I see Literally people minutes

17:35

from dying all the time , right , or

17:38

you do you give people these really

17:40

bad pathologic diagnosis , you have

17:42

cancer , or you have this , you have that , and

17:44

it's like , okay , I'll see you later

17:46

, you know We'll have support for you . And then you

17:48

just walk out and then , as soon as , as a physician

17:50

, you walk out the room , you feel like you

17:52

move on to something else . But that patient

17:55

, that family , like they're still holding on to that

17:57

, you know right , and that's changed their

17:59

whole life . You know , in that moment .

18:01

But I think you know people

18:03

are afraid of Emotions

18:07

, right , and particularly the negative ones

18:09

, and you don't have to

18:11

be like . Emotions are just information . They're just telling

18:13

you something about what's important to you , right

18:16

, and I like , when I was

18:18

going through childbirth classes , the one thing that was

18:20

actually helpful about childbirth classes was they

18:22

told me , you know , yes

18:24

, it's going to hurt , there will be pain , but

18:26

it's not the kind of pain that

18:28

you need to be afraid of , right ?

18:30

It's , it's normal , expected

18:32

pain , um

18:35

, and it doesn't make it hurt any less , but

18:38

it helps .

18:41

I'm like I don't know . I'm

18:43

like I don't want to do it again .

18:45

Yeah , but but it hurts

18:47

, but it doesn't have to be feared

18:50

. Right , we can separate pain from

18:52

fear and pain

18:54

from you

18:56

know . All this just Psychological

18:58

discomfort right and I see the same thing in

19:01

in Health care with doctors and their

19:03

patients , like it's okay If that

19:05

makes you feel sad . You're a human

19:07

. I would be worried if you don't feel sad

19:09

, given some of the things that

19:11

you see , but that doesn't mean that you have to run from

19:13

being sad and run from the

19:15

situation .

19:16

You need to run to a room that you can go crying

19:18

for a bit .

19:19

Yeah , I mean , you know you're gonna have to get through the

19:21

rest of the day and then maybe you can

19:23

go cry Right

19:25

, right , yeah , I mean , you have to be able to function

19:28

.

19:28

I'm not saying you don't you know you can just like

19:30

, cry whenever you need to , but like , but

19:32

there's a balance , is what I'm saying . It's not all or

19:34

nothing , right , like , like you can be

19:36

an effective human and an effective physician

19:39

.

19:39

Oh Now , william , in your situation

19:42

where it's , it's a visceral

19:44

, dichotomy right Like provider

19:46

one second and then Literally

19:49

a patient , and not just any other type of

19:51

patient like you're waking up in the ICU

19:53

and so forth . What happened ? You know

19:55

what are your thoughts on that ? Like what ?

19:57

Well , fortunately for me , and

19:59

waking up at the ICU Um my

20:01

career as an ophthalmologist didn't afford me

20:04

any extra experience that

20:06

I could really relate to .

20:07

But your board scores were dope though . Yeah

20:10

.

20:10

Yeah , you know , I'd say you don't really have

20:12

to set a foot in an ICU to be able

20:14

to perform well on the usm , a leak but

20:17

uh , I don't

20:19

know that's a good thing or a bad thing . I

20:23

you know , I'd say yeah

20:27

, I , I'd say that , um , the

20:29

biggest , the

20:33

biggest learning experience for me

20:35

was going through the health insurance

20:38

, the medical bills , the man

20:41

. That was totally

20:43

different than what I expected With

20:46

the cancer stuff . I was a student and

20:48

a resident and so I had good health insurance

20:50

. I had good health insurance this whole time

20:52

, fortunately for the

20:54

most part , but as a student it's kind

20:57

of an oxymoron , that phrase .

20:58

Right yeah exactly , I

21:00

guess .

21:01

Yeah , but it was pretty clean . I

21:03

had surgery to take out the testicle

21:06

and that was all it

21:08

was . Insurance paid for most of it . I didn't have to deal

21:10

with a lot of back and forth . The

21:12

cardiac arrest was like that was a much

21:14

bigger deal because I had now an ICU

21:16

stay . I had all these procedures

21:18

that were done on me . Some catheter

21:20

was put in me that cost like

21:23

$24,000

21:26

. Something outrageous . I don't even know

21:28

what ?

21:29

Oh my gosh , I had an itemized bill . I

21:31

did .

21:32

He asked for it I asked for it .

21:33

Yeah , yeah , yeah , let

21:35

me tell you that wasn't easy .

21:37

Yeah .

21:39

So there was so much more

21:41

that went into it than all of a sudden I had all

21:43

these surprise bills because

21:45

, see , I forgot to check

21:48

make sure that the doctors

21:50

who were going to be at the hospital were in network before

21:52

I had a cardiac arrest .

21:54

You went to the wrong emergency room

21:56

in ICU .

21:57

Oh , I did Right one . Right

21:59

one Wrong doctor .

22:01

Yeah wrong doctors , Right the

22:04

hospital was in network . My bad

22:06

Right , but not the doctors , my

22:08

bad signal . So , anyway

22:12

, it was a nine month process

22:14

, nine months between

22:16

starting about three

22:18

weeks after I got from the hospital , of

22:21

just emails and phone calls and

22:23

trying to get this

22:25

tens of thousands of dollars with the bills

22:27

covered that my insurance wasn't

22:29

covering . And you know what ended up

22:31

doing it Social media posts

22:33

, of course , Of

22:35

course .

22:36

So I had to use this Leave it to embarrassment

22:38

, public embarrassment , to get people to know Right

22:40

.

22:42

And unfortunately for a lot of people , that's what it takes , and I was very

22:44

fortunate . Obviously , I had this big

22:46

platform already so I could draw attention

22:48

to myself . I didn't feel good doing

22:50

that , but I was so frustrated that that's

22:52

what I ended up doing and unfortunately , it works . And

22:56

that tells you a lot , actually , about

22:58

how these

23:00

insurance companies think

23:03

about social media . They

23:07

care about public perception , right . That's

23:09

like the one thing that you can kind of hit them on

23:11

is okay , we don't want too

23:13

many people saying bad things about us , so

23:16

let's reach out to all these people complaining

23:19

on social media . Maybe we generate

23:21

a little bit of good PR for ourselves .

23:23

So it's and you'll notice

23:25

, even when they reach out , they're like DM

23:27

us .

23:28

No , they don't want a public .

23:29

They're trying to get it off of there as quick as possible

23:32

to get it back to a private channel .

23:33

So , and what

23:35

really ? As a physician , though , it

23:38

just really drove home

23:40

like what my patients deal with , what

23:42

our patients deal with on a day

23:44

to day basis , right , it's bad enough

23:46

to have to recover from a critical

23:49

illness or an accident or

23:51

whatever it may be that got you in the hospital , and

23:53

then we put this on top of that . We'll

23:55

be like , okay , you're also going to have to deal with the

23:58

psychological , the emotional

24:01

turmoil

24:03

of having to figure out your medical bills

24:05

and why this is paid

24:07

, why this isn't paid .

24:09

And it's also confusing . You had the

24:11

knowledge of being a physician within the healthcare

24:13

system .

24:14

And it was still confusing .

24:16

So imagine when you don't .

24:18

Yeah , it's even worse .

24:20

My mom was in the hospital recently and Renee

24:23

always asked me well , like , when I took my

24:25

mother to the hospital , I don't say that

24:27

I'm a doctor at all , like I just roll

24:29

up there and I'm there and I

24:31

don't like to use that doctor name

24:34

because I like to watch and see .

24:35

Yeah , don't pull the rank unless you have to Exactly

24:38

.

24:38

I don't pull it unless I rank , unless I have to

24:40

, because I just want to see how she'll be treated . And

24:43

I think what I've seen from the other side is

24:45

, I think , a lot from a doctor perspective

24:48

. We talk too technical

24:50

to our patients .

24:51

And I'm just sitting there talking .

24:52

You know , my mother had an arrhythmia and they're just talking

24:55

about all these different things and

24:57

I'm just quiet and I may ask a question here or there

24:59

as soon as they leave . I ask my mom . So mom , like

25:01

, do you know what's going on ? She's

25:03

like no , that's what I would . I have you here

25:05

for it , because I have no clue what they're talking

25:07

about , right , you know . So I think it's

25:09

like so many different things that you can take away , particularly

25:12

from your perspective .

25:14

But I have the opposite . I have the opposite

25:16

problem with my mom , like the minute

25:18

she sees a healthcare professional

25:21

she's like do you know who my son is

25:23

? Have

25:26

you heard of Dr Glokomflecken

25:28

? This is true .

25:30

Did you subscribe ?

25:32

Yeah , every Did

25:34

you know he has a newsletter .

25:37

It is her favorite thing in the world to

25:40

tell med students , residents

25:42

, nurses , it doesn't matter . Let

25:44

me tell you about it .

25:46

She could be going back for open heart surgery , I think one time a

25:48

flight attendant .

25:49

And she's going to be telling the anesthesiologist before she gets

25:52

put this note Count back to 10 from

25:54

10 , then yeah , 9, .

25:56

Do you know ?

25:56

who my son is Exactly . He's talking about it in

25:58

her toes . I know that for a fact . If I was dealing with

26:00

you , I'm like well , make sure .

26:01

You know what I mean . I mean the platform

26:04

, right , oh man yeah

26:06

.

26:06

My work against her . I make everybody nervous , I

26:08

know .

26:10

That's what I'm saying . I'd

26:12

rather be a little bit more anonymous .

26:15

You should have thought about that before you put your face

26:17

everywhere .

26:19

That's probably true . No matter where

26:21

you are in your career . You've seen patients

26:23

your age or younger get seriously

26:25

injured , have a long-term

26:27

illness or even have a mental health issue

26:30

that affects their ability to work . Now

26:32

, what if that was you ? No , for real . What

26:34

if that was you Without disability

26:36

insurance ? How are you going to replace your paycheck

26:39

? In episode 176

26:41

, jamie Fleissner of Sefa Life Insurance

26:43

explains why the best time to buy disability

26:45

insurance is during your residency

26:47

.

26:48

Most people , most physicians , acquire their

26:50

disability policies during residency

26:53

, and there's several reasons . First of all , when

26:55

you're younger , you're able to obtain the

26:57

insurance because they ask you a whole host of

26:59

medical history and so you

27:01

usually don't get healthier over time . Usually

27:03

you get less healthy over time , so when you're healthy

27:05

, it's easier to acquire the coverage

27:08

or two . It's also less expensive because

27:10

it's based on your age and your health . You're

27:12

not getting younger or healthier over time

27:14

, so you're at the ideal time . The earlier you get

27:16

it and the younger you are , the less expensive

27:18

it's going to be .

27:20

So , whether you're a resident or you're an attending , it's

27:22

never too late to protect your income . Renee

27:25

and I , we use Sefa Life Insurance to find

27:27

a disability policy that fit our

27:29

needs and budget . So what

27:31

are you waiting for ? Check out setfalifeinsurancecom

27:35

Once again . That's setfalifeinsurancecom

27:38

. Speaking

27:41

of putting your face everywhere . Question Are

27:43

you still practicing as an ophthalmologist right now

27:45

?

27:46

I am , yes . Today

27:49

I did 11

27:51

cataract surgeries and did

27:53

an afternoon clinic . So

27:55

I do . I practice four days a week still .

27:57

Which for an ophthalmologist is considered full

28:00

time actually . That's true , not

28:02

even a joke .

28:02

Yes , so

28:04

, I'm putting my if you guys are watching on

28:06

. Youtube like how is there such a thing

28:08

Like how does this work ? Balance ?

28:10

practice social media

28:12

husband , dad

28:15

, dog owner you

28:19

can see your dog like what's going on in there

28:21

.

28:22

He's like you're going to let me in here , or what ?

28:24

How does that work ?

28:26

Oh man , good question . I'm

28:28

still figuring it out , but obviously

28:31

.

28:31

I figured .

28:32

Yep , obviously Kristen picks up a lot of slack

28:34

.

28:35

She's the special sauce .

28:36

Oh , she is Absolutely . I mean a lot more than

28:39

ways than well , more than just saving my life . She , like

28:41

you know , just keeps , keeps

28:43

. She's the engine that keeps this family

28:45

going . But , as

28:47

you know , when I first started this

28:49

, it was a lot more simple

28:52

, it was more straightforward . Now I was just

28:54

like telling jokes on Twitter . I was filming a skit

28:56

here and there as we started

28:58

adding more things like the podcast

29:00

and the news , wanting to do a newsletter

29:02

, and we had

29:04

to . We had to get help , and

29:07

so I had to learn

29:09

. This is a big , a big

29:11

deal for me , because I have never been

29:13

a group project type of person . I

29:17

just like this was just my thing

29:19

. I was just going to do the comedy thing and

29:21

and I have the total . I have

29:23

total control . No one has has

29:26

like thinking selfishly

29:28

. No one has my ability to post on social

29:31

media , Absolutely not .

29:32

No one can possibly do this as well .

29:34

No one can possibly do this and

29:36

like that's right .

29:37

Meanwhile , I like have no idea how Instagram

29:40

works . I'm just like I have like

29:42

.

29:42

I have a marketing background , but you know who

29:44

needs that .

29:46

So so a big part of it , of

29:48

finding that balance between

29:50

all these things is figuring out how to let go

29:52

, how to , how to let

29:54

others help me and ask for help

29:57

. And so Kristen ended

29:59

up quitting her job at the time to

30:02

do Glock and Fleck in full time

30:04

, and she really keeps

30:06

the business running , also does

30:08

a lot of creative stuff . We obviously do

30:10

the podcast together . We have an employee

30:13

, we have a production company that

30:15

helps with the podcast . So I definitely

30:17

don't want people to think I do all

30:19

of this myself because team effort

30:21

. It is an absolutely a team effort and it just

30:24

has to be and to get

30:26

to where we want to be with this . You

30:28

know it really did require

30:30

. There's no way I could do it alone

30:33

. So , yeah , that's

30:35

the answer , and I'm still not sure I

30:37

have the right balance . I don't know , still trying to figure

30:39

that out .

30:40

It's still very busy even with all of that

30:42

.

30:42

Yeah , you know , and so

30:44

I do have to occasionally , you know , do an eye

30:47

exam or two .

30:47

So you

30:50

know I say that there's no such thing

30:52

as balance . You just kind of , whatever the priorities are

30:54

, you just kind of make it happen and you hope at the

30:56

end of the day that , or even at the

30:58

end of life , that you've given enough priorities to

31:01

the things that matter .

31:02

you know I do like , though , to to

31:05

when I , when I talk to audiences

31:07

and you know do speaking and stuff I

31:10

like to talk about how you

31:12

know medicine it's

31:15

. It should be an important part of your life if

31:17

you're a physician , but it doesn't have to be your entire

31:19

life , right ? Exactly , it's okay

31:22

to want to do other

31:24

things , right .

31:26

Try saying that as someone from a Gen

31:28

X , right , Like that's another concept as

31:32

a millennial that y'all could

31:34

say you know , but that's an amazing

31:36

point . That's the exact thing you know , right

31:38

, yeah .

31:39

I mean , there's other things that can be fulfilling

31:41

and and I had I

31:44

realized pretty

31:46

early in my life that comedy

31:48

was very important to me and that I wanted

31:51

to pursue that . I kept doing , I did stand

31:53

up and through college and and

31:55

into med school , and even

31:57

when I got really busy , I kept a little

31:59

part of my life , you know , telling jokes

32:01

on Twitter and and

32:04

then eventually , once I had more time

32:06

as a practicing ophthalmologist , I could

32:08

, I could explore my creative

32:10

side a little bit more , and I had more time

32:13

to do that . Really , I made time

32:15

to do that and and and

32:17

that's okay . And so you know , that's

32:19

why I you know , I love talking

32:21

to , like med students and residents and

32:23

and and just

32:25

letting them know like you can do

32:28

things that are fulfilling outside of medicine

32:31

and you should , and it doesn't make you and you can

32:33

do them both it doesn't make you a bad doctor

32:36

Right . Exactly , it

32:38

makes you a better doctor , right Right

32:40

Because you ? Because it brings in other experiences

32:42

that you can use to relate to your patients

32:44

.

32:44

It doesn't let you off the hook either . It doesn't

32:46

mean that you don't need to be a good

32:49

doctor right and study and put in the

32:51

time and the hours and there will

32:53

be seasons or years of your life right

32:55

when maybe you have to focus

32:57

more on the medicine to put the other stuff

32:59

aside temporarily while

33:01

you're focusing on the medicine .

33:02

You know , when you're in residency , like you know , as

33:04

a resident , I had no time to do anything besides

33:07

, you know , you know going

33:09

to see eye problems in the emergency

33:11

department and

33:13

so maybe not eye problems for you guys

33:15

. I don't know what was the last time you guys did an eye

33:18

exam . How long has it been ?

33:20

I actually did one . I had a really

33:22

bad ocular trauma , like what's an

33:24

eye ?

33:26

Okay , that's good , that's usually

33:28

the response .

33:28

It's an able to waste , it ain't in my face .

33:34

I like that . That's good , lucky you .

33:36

Lucky me .

33:37

Lucky . You guys know who the comedian is and is doing that

33:39

. It's good .

33:41

Chris , I got a question for you .

33:43

So you graduated with

33:45

a degree in wedding cognitive neuroscience

33:47

as well as social psychology ?

33:50

I used to have a cell work .

33:51

Yeah .

33:52

Are you analyzing us right now ?

33:57

I know . No , no , no , I'm definitely

33:59

no psychotherapist . Lies

34:02

Maybe a little bit . Just always everybody

34:04

like maybe subconsciously I'm sort of always

34:07

watching . I specialized in

34:09

the neuroscience of emotion , which

34:12

is why that's one of my big soapboxes , I

34:14

think now is and particularly like

34:16

emotion regulation and things . You know

34:18

I did a lot with that .

34:19

She spent hours and hours and

34:21

hours in a basement with an MRI machine

34:24

.

34:24

Yeah , we did fMRI and

34:26

psychophysiology . Where you like , hook electrodes

34:29

up to different parts of the body

34:31

to do different things , right ?

34:32

Like you can .

34:32

And we did like

34:35

EEGs . We did EMG

34:37

, like face you know , to get

34:39

at like positive and negative

34:41

emotion , like what's your , what are your facial muscles

34:44

doing ? Right , the smile muscles , frown muscles

34:46

, all that stuff . Even like underneath the skin

34:48

, where it's not visible , you can still detect

34:50

electrical activity that indicates things . So I

34:53

get real boring about all that . But yeah

34:55

, that's that's

34:57

how I started and it was . It was

34:59

a PhD program but I actually decided to master

35:01

out before I did the dissertation

35:04

. So and for many

35:06

reasons , but but

35:08

yeah , it turned out . I still use it every day

35:10

, like I have a . I did

35:12

undergrad psychology and then I did that for

35:14

, for grad school , and then I

35:17

turned it into a career in marketing and communications

35:20

and all of that just sort of feeds into

35:22

everything else .

35:23

So it wasn't understanding the wants and needs .

35:25

Yeah .

35:26

So if you're , if you're keeping track . It wasn't

35:28

until we got to Dartmouth and I started paying

35:30

like $80,000

35:32

per year in tuition that Kristen

35:34

decided she didn't want to be a Dartmouth anymore

35:37

. I

35:41

don't need to be anything

35:44

I was I was I was

35:46

admitted to a state school in Texas . $9000

35:49

per year , it would have been sweet .

35:51

You know , but then you'd be dead right now . So

35:53

that's true . Yeah , you know , we probably wouldn't do together

35:56

.

35:56

So I can't really complain . So

35:59

who got accepted to Dartmouth first ?

36:01

Oh , kristen , oh , I had to . I had to

36:03

fight tooth and nail to get into that place .

36:05

So you followed her .

36:07

Oh yeah , oh yeah , she is . The application

36:09

cycles are off , so she got admitted . Like

36:12

before , even

36:14

the applications were open

36:16

.

36:17

No , no , it was the other way around . Yours was

36:19

first , yours starts super early .

36:21

Oh , that's right .

36:22

And so , like all the spots were already pretty much

36:25

given away in the med school class by the

36:27

time , it was even time for me to apply

36:29

, you know so that's right .

36:30

So by the time she knew she was going to Dartmouth

36:32

, yeah or it was that

36:35

you had a full class . Yeah like I

36:37

. I saw I applied very late . That was the deal

36:39

, and so I got the last interview

36:41

day and I got waitlisted immediately and

36:43

like two weeks before

36:46

literally two weeks I was going to move

36:48

to to Houston and she was going to go up to

36:50

Dartmouth .

36:51

Mid June , or something they called

36:53

, and said you got .

36:54

I did write like a series of long

36:56

letters like , like anytime

36:59

, any award or good grade

37:01

.

37:01

I did everything .

37:02

Oh yeah , Everything short of showing up with a jukebox

37:05

and there's

37:08

a gen X reference for you . Yes

37:10

. A little gen X for you

37:12

.

37:18

Was that high fidelity ? One movie , was that again .

37:20

That was 16 candles I think

37:23

16 candles .

37:23

Yeah , one of them . Is it Ducky ?

37:26

I don't remember . I don't remember the name John

37:29

Cusack . John Cusack , though .

37:30

John Cusack . Yeah , yeah .

37:32

So it wasn't Ducky Ducky's the other guy from the

37:35

nerd . Yeah , he's the nerd from

37:37

two men , whatever

37:39

, oh yeah , what

37:41

is his name ?

37:42

Sean ?

37:43

See , this is what it's like when you get older . I

37:45

know it's like everybody just

37:47

like trying to remember things , yeah

37:49

.

37:49

Right , what was that guy's name that did the thing

37:52

? Who's that again ? Yeah

37:54

, he's

37:56

on smart list now .

37:58

Yeah , he's on what . There you go .

37:59

Smart list , that podcast . You

38:02

know what I'm talking about ?

38:03

Nope , no , okay , yeah , I saw

38:05

that I didn't follow it too

38:07

much . But and then he has a new show

38:09

also .

38:10

He just looks like he'd be a host of Jeopardy or something . He

38:14

has that look Really .

38:15

Yeah , he has that look I feel like it would be musical

38:17

Jeopardy though , you know , like musical theater

38:19

version . People say that about me .

38:22

People say that about me . That could be the host of Jeopardy .

38:25

Really . No , you don't think so I think

38:27

, only you have ever said

38:30

that about you Somebody ?

38:31

should . I do think Yachty Jones TV show yeah

38:34

.

38:35

I'd love that .

38:36

Yeah , I don't know .

38:37

We'd have to see , but I'm actually

38:39

interested if somebody because you know

38:41

, with YouTube , like you control so much right

38:43

. Like you control everything right . Like you can say

38:46

what you want to say , you can do whatever topics you want to , you can

38:48

get as raunchy as you want to get . Like if someone

38:50

came to y'all and said , yachty , do your own TV show , but

38:52

you know , obviously you're going to be on

38:54

national TV but you got to follow these strict

38:56

rules , mm-hmm , what do you think about that ? Would

38:58

y'all take that ?

38:58

Yeah

39:01

, it might depend on what the rules are

39:03

.

39:03

Yeah , I see , and we've thought

39:05

about , we've actually

39:08

worked on that actually YouTube adsense ain't

39:10

bad . It's a comfy

39:12

living , yeah , most part yeah it's

39:14

, it's a nice little side , get to a certain point

39:16

but it's , it's , um , we've

39:18

thought about doing like

39:20

an animated series Based

39:23

on my content , my characters , which

39:26

actually I think probably would Be

39:29

a feasible thing for us

39:31

, versus like a live action , something

39:33

going on , because my characters

39:36

are kind of cartoonish anyway , right , they're like

39:38

their caricatures of Health

39:40

care professionals .

39:41

So I think it actually translate .

39:45

I did one I

39:48

did one where the the general surgeon turned

39:50

into the trauma surgeon . Do you remember that one ?

39:53

I don't think I I think I missed that one , so

39:55

it's the one that went up .

39:56

It's the one . It's the one where the it's

39:59

called don't chart in the ER

40:01

or emergency department , or something . So

40:03

the skits about the , the general surgeon

40:05

who decided to

40:07

Actually to chart in the emergency

40:09

department , which is something you never do . Right , you got

40:11

. You go see the patient , you get the hell out

40:14

and get out Well the

40:16

skit . The general surgeon

40:18

decided to start charting

40:20

there and he was ambushed by the emergency

40:22

physician and they turned him into a trauma

40:25

surgeon .

40:26

That's right , even as an OB . I know you don't do

40:28

that , because that's actually right . Yeah

40:31

, even as an OB . I'm like I think

40:33

she's okay . All right , bye .

40:36

You can't somewhere else . That's

40:38

actually , that video is actually one of my One

40:41

of my favorites that I've ever made . I

40:44

love that one , so I'll

40:47

make sure , I take a look at that .

40:48

And when I do take a look at that , please just

40:51

make it a recurring character , because I'm a

40:53

trauma surgeon . We don't , you

40:55

know , we had a garbage man , garbage women of

40:57

the hospital .

40:59

You guys are you gotta , you need to send him some

41:01

of your like Problems

41:03

, you know . Unlike

41:09

interpersonal conflicts and

41:11

yeah , who do you have beef with ?

41:13

you got beef with yeah , you

41:18

come in for this ocular trauma right

41:20

. I know it's to the morning but come in right

41:22

come on man .

41:25

Me , I got beef with you .

41:29

Everybody . We're always in the hospital .

41:32

Call you unless we need you . Which

41:35

is always no , you

41:37

can't deliver a baby . Don't start that mess .

41:40

I will just my understanding , though , is

41:42

that you , just , you just spend a lot of time

41:44

down there in the trauma bay , the Emergency

41:46

Department . That's kind of like your second home

41:48

right . That's a tromba .

41:49

Yeah , between there , and then the OR

41:52

and ICU Stuff right

41:54

you know it is just you're all over the place and stuff

41:56

you just really doesn't know how that is .

42:01

So you're the one , so You're

42:06

the one this trauma surgery right that that

42:08

finishes operating on the patient and sends them

42:10

up to the ICU and with Like

42:12

he doesn't even know what you do like all the all

42:14

, the all the lines are all tangled and

42:16

like absolute mess . And then you just like

42:18

, like , here you go , icu figure

42:21

this out , is that ?

42:22

kind of the yeah , that's the situation afterwards

42:25

, absolutely detangle everything call me

42:27

.

42:27

You know , yeah , right , okay

42:29

, but they do call you , they do .

42:34

Jack of all trades , master of none .

42:36

Yeah , the first one to admit it .

42:40

And .

42:42

That's a given almost as cocky as well

42:45

. How about this ? Then we gonna transition to this cuz . This is

42:47

a she's gonna get me going and I'm

42:49

like we could go back and forth , but we really

42:51

good , chris . I got a question for you you

42:54

know William mentioned that you you

42:56

left your job To focus primarily

42:59

on the business of the glaucoma

43:01

, fleckens right , yes , and that is so

43:03

many different multi hyphenate type

43:06

things . It's a lot of work . How

43:08

you pictured yourself leaving Dartmouth with

43:10

your degrees , the job being high-powered

43:12

, highly educated , doing

43:14

your own thing , to now dropping

43:17

that and Working on this business

43:19

? Talk to us about that , how that

43:21

works out . Was the internal struggles

43:23

within yourself going to that ? Because

43:25

it , I'm assuming that question . That's

43:28

a big deal right , but also

43:30

, at the same time , on the other side , you're highly

43:32

successful with this right now . Talk to us about

43:34

that yeah , leave

43:37

in Dartmouth .

43:37

That was kind of interesting cuz cuz . I had never

43:40

saw myself leaving Dartmouth until

43:42

until I did , you know

43:44

, or not , dartmouth

43:46

, but just that career path right

43:48

, I thought that was the path I was on . I

43:51

had done everything up until that

43:53

point to get to that path right and

43:57

I had no idea what I was gonna

43:59

do . So I kind of , you know , explore

44:01

things . I did a lot of research into , like

44:03

transferable schools and things like

44:05

that , to try to figure out how to pivot , you know

44:07

, and

44:09

I liked my job a whole lot and

44:11

I loved the people that I was working

44:14

with and and I I probably

44:16

, you know , I Could

44:18

have left sooner , like in terms of just

44:20

the finances of everything , but

44:22

I really did enjoy what I was doing . But

44:26

I do really like being my

44:28

own boss . I have to say , like

44:31

that's pretty nice To

44:33

be able to have the , the flexibility

44:36

to . I mean , it's really busy , it

44:38

doesn't ? It just never stops to be able to

44:40

like mix kids and work

44:42

and home and you know work from home

44:44

and all of that stuff . So you have a lot of flexibility

44:47

, but that also means you

44:49

never have a place to escape any of it

44:51

, right , it's all .

44:52

Together .

44:54

Exactly . But yeah , I

44:56

really like it . I like that I can explore

44:59

my own creative side through it , in

45:01

addition to using some of my , you

45:03

know , skill sets . It's

45:08

a little you know working . I

45:10

Wouldn't mind it if I didn't . You

45:13

know , it gets a little tricky sometimes to be

45:15

a lady Glokomflecken , right , like

45:17

I'm attached to the person

45:19

that I'm married to .

45:20

I'm not like my own person .

45:22

You know it's not a name

45:24

.

45:24

It's just like I'm known in relation

45:27

to , yeah right , someone else

45:29

and and so I . You know , that's

45:31

probably the the biggest thing I struggle with with

45:33

all of it is just kind of making my own

45:35

name for myself and and doing my

45:37

own work within

45:39

the company and his

45:41

stuff just takes so much time that sometimes I'm like

45:43

, why am I doing this stuff ? I have my own stuff , I

45:45

want to be doing it .

45:46

Yeah but yeah

45:49

well , like

45:53

an incredible job , just

45:58

carving out like your

46:00

own . You know pursuits and

46:02

and and . Like

46:04

the cardiac arrest , survivorship

46:06

and do a lot of that , but she's a lot of advocacy

46:09

is really making a name for herself there

46:11

and doing a lot of great work , and and

46:14

so it's . You

46:16

know , we , we try to also

46:18

give each other space to like , do that and

46:20

and explore that and and

46:23

that's . That's what's so exciting about

46:25

this is we could go in so many different directions

46:27

, you know and that's why our business

46:29

is the Glokomflecken's

46:31

.

46:31

It's not doctor Glokomflecken . You

46:34

know , I mean there is that branch , but there's

46:36

also this other branch and we try to really give

46:38

, you know , some balance between the

46:40

two and there's a lot of overlap between what the two

46:42

of us care about , because obviously We've

46:45

had a lot of overlap , you know , having been

46:47

together for the last years

46:49

.

46:53

But we do , we have like .

47:00

We've been married . Oh , I don't even know , I can't even

47:02

do it anymore . 2006 . So 18

47:04

years that we've been .

47:06

Oh , married since 2009 married since 2009

47:09

. How many years that is ?

47:10

anyway . The point is there's been a lot of shared

47:12

experiences , and that goes through

47:14

in the brand , but we also have our own you

47:17

know personalities and then like Areas

47:20

that we focus on With the business

47:22

as well .

47:23

So yeah , it's , it's all kind of

47:25

a balancing act .

47:26

We can work , we work well together , that's

47:28

, we have all we our entire relationship

47:30

has always been like work-based

47:32

, you know , Like we met as students , where we

47:34

would spend our Friday night studying in

47:37

the library Before we went out .

47:39

You know so we have occasionally had fun

47:41

.

47:43

But work has always been , you

47:46

know , since the beginning . So we , we've

47:48

, we've learned how to do that . Do your own thing together

47:50

is kind of the yeah .

47:52

I think that's kind of like us this

47:54

, where you should tell them will . I asked about the

47:56

what prenup agreement . Oh , oh

47:58

, the

48:02

reason I mentioned that is your story . Everybody

48:05

was there for the come-up right everybody was

48:07

there from college all

48:10

the way up . So we met in

48:12

med school , you know , obviously had

48:14

nothing . My dumb ass said

48:17

hey , you know , like before we get married

48:19

, should we consider a prenup ? Even though

48:21

I was $320,000

48:23

in debt and she was $20,000 in debt , you know

48:26

? Yeah , I just said it as a joke .

48:29

No , you didn't say it .

48:32

Wasn't a joke .

48:33

He was serious and I was like you don't have

48:35

anything , you have nothing .

48:38

It's a nice to do a prenup

48:40

when you have a negative net .

48:42

Exactly so . I'm assuming that never came up in your conversations

48:45

. What ?

48:45

if I had just to you a prenup

48:49

.

48:50

I mean we were in the same boat and either one of us had

48:52

any .

48:55

We were so broke . Yeah exactly

48:57

the reason I'm laughing .

49:03

I'll keep my nickel and you keep yours , oh

49:05

sure .

49:08

That we both have to pay this alley-may , but whatever

49:10

Got

49:14

a question for you .

49:16

So you know well , you were talking about , like , growing

49:18

up with comedy . Right

49:20

, yeah , and a couple questions

49:23

. One what's your amount , rushmore

49:25

, of comedians , and

49:27

it has , that's four . So who's ?

49:29

on yeah oh . David

49:32

Letterman really . Mm-hmm

49:36

, I grew up from a stand-up standpoint . Really

49:38

.

49:38

Yeah , okay , yeah , I

49:40

mean .

49:43

Yeah , oh , like Back in the

49:46

day , seinfeld was like

49:48

he's his stand-up . I'm not

49:50

as now you mean not good

49:52

? Yeah , right , yeah but right

49:54

girl , I'm prime Jerry Seinfeld

49:56

. I like I've gone through different comedians

49:59

in different phases of my life .

50:00

Right and so don't tell me , I watched all those

50:02

seasons of Seinfeld ten times each and

50:05

he's not one of your no . You can't tell

50:07

me that he

50:09

made me watch so much Seinfeld when we were dating

50:11

.

50:12

I think George Carlin

50:14

probably has to be on that list .

50:15

Yeah , it's

50:18

observational comedy .

50:19

Yeah , absolutely yeah . I mean I

50:21

also , like I grew up with , with

50:23

starting out live as well and and

50:26

Tina Fey and Amy

50:29

Poehler , like I love

50:31

everything that they do and

50:33

along with like 30 rock and Then

50:36

I'll really stand-ups , but but still

50:38

they're comedians and and well

50:41

, you do a lot of comedy .

50:43

Yeah , I do , yeah , snl Right

50:45

exactly .

50:46

I mean , I SNL is a

50:48

formative experience kind of for me

50:50

. I remember , you know I would tape

50:53

those episodes videotape like

50:55

in a .

50:55

VCR . Yeah

50:58

Like

51:03

.

51:05

I remember like cassette tapes , like I'd make

51:07

a pencil out . Yeah

51:10

, yeah , we're like elder millennia . We're

51:12

kind of on the border , so there you go . Yeah

51:15

, yeah , you

51:17

know right now , like

51:20

currently , who's the guy that

51:22

? The southern guy , nate Bargatze . Yeah , he's

51:25

really funny , it's

51:27

really funny .

51:27

It's Taylor Tomlinson as a

51:29

stand-up . I haven't watched her . I know she just

51:32

got a late-night show . I haven't seen that . I don't know if that's any

51:34

good , she's funny .

51:34

Stand-up is hilarious , she's good yeah .

51:36

Yeah , with all the new , because now you , with a

51:38

lot of the new comedians , the things that they say are

51:41

it's not like the old days , right

51:43

, the old days you can kind of say anything

51:45

and you don't have to worry about getting canceled

51:47

and so forth . So what are your thoughts

51:49

on that ? Because , you know , is it

51:51

like we're too sensitive or is it like

51:54

a okay course ? Yeah right

51:56

thoughts . I think , like

51:58

would Eddie Murphy still be a . Murphy in today's day

52:00

.

52:01

Probably not probably not .

52:03

I don't think so and I think

52:05

maybe I Think we've

52:07

probably corrected a little bit too much

52:09

. I still

52:12

, I

52:14

think people maybe people are a little bit too sensitive

52:16

nowadays , but

52:19

this is also coming from like I

52:21

grew up . Comedy was such a big part of my life and so

52:23

I still like , I still

52:25

remember like I'd say

52:27

the talk like this , like I'm like in my 60s

52:30

or 70s but you're kind of looking

52:32

like it .

52:33

Yeah , exactly .

52:35

But so I guess I'm

52:37

just I'm not as easily offended

52:40

, and so comedy is

52:42

such a subjective , like personal experience

52:44

, I think , in a lot of ways , and my

52:47

mind really is in medical comedy so much

52:49

, and then that's completely different

52:51

, you know it's it's like I don't actually

52:54

call myself a stand up comedian . I'm

52:56

not , I'm not a stand up comedian . Stand

52:58

up comedy is incredibly

53:00

hard work . I do

53:02

a little bit of stand up , I dabble in stand

53:04

up whenever I do speaking

53:06

gigs and and and some of

53:08

the live show stuff we do you started in stand

53:10

up ? I started in stand up , but that's

53:13

tough .

53:13

It's really hard .

53:15

Doing it . It's a really hard life . It's hard to make it , and

53:17

then now for the past eight

53:20

years or so , like I've , I've

53:22

been like exclusively doing medical comedy

53:24

, and that has a different

53:26

.

53:27

Which was that even a ? Thing ?

53:29

Not , I mean not really there . There are a few people

53:31

that are doing like a little bit

53:34

.

53:34

Yeah , but um , you know , it just sounds

53:36

so weird to my ears , right Like as a non-medical

53:38

person Right . What is funny about it

53:40

?

53:41

Well , you had . You had people that were doctors and quit

53:43

and then just went into comedy

53:46

like Ken Jeong . Right , yeah , but

53:48

there weren't , I didn't have like a prototype

53:50

of someone that was really like blending

53:53

the two and like having trying to have

53:55

, like this , this public career

53:57

as a comedian while also being a doctor . So

53:59

I made a lot of mistakes , you

54:01

know , um , as I was trying

54:04

to figure this role out in

54:06

society and and

54:08

I learned very quickly that there

54:10

are there's a different level of professionalism as

54:13

a physician . you know , telling

54:15

jokes on social media like that , I have to

54:17

maintain and so it's very different

54:19

from the rest of comedy where you know you can be

54:21

like your Anthony , jezelnick and other

54:23

, you know Chappelle and other

54:25

, that that that can , can

54:28

, can push the envelope a little bit more . Yeah , I

54:31

don't have that luxury as a physician and

54:34

that's just because of the , the place we

54:36

have in society . Really , you

54:38

know , because we have we're

54:42

, we have patients , lives in

54:44

our hands not , not me so much

54:46

as an ophthalmologist , but you get what I'm saying . Yeah , Um

54:49

, please don't put your life in my hands . Um

54:52

eyes I can do , but not your life .

54:55

I think , I think doctors and pilots . There's a certain place

54:57

where in society people want

54:59

a certain level of seriousness from them , right

55:01

? So there has to .

55:03

So there has to be a , there's a level of professionals

55:05

, and that's what I I talk a lot about with you

55:07

know , not punching down , not , you can't , don't

55:09

make fun of patients , don't you know ? There

55:11

are certain things .

55:12

You have to be aware of the power hierarchy , exactly

55:15

, yeah .

55:16

So so you have to obey those

55:18

rules , but you can still be

55:20

funny , you can still tell jokes . I think it's really important

55:22

that we are able to do that and

55:24

show the public that we have

55:26

a sense of humor , that we can let our guard

55:29

down a little bit . But but

55:31

you do have to do it safely , and it just requires a

55:33

different mindset

55:35

when you're trying to do that as a physician

55:38

or a medical professional who takes care of people .

55:40

Your ability to segue is amazing , because there's a

55:42

quote of yours that I want to read and I

55:44

want to ask your question just based off of

55:46

that . I think it's super interesting . So

55:49

last year you did , there was an article

55:51

on you and you said when things

55:53

get a little more complicated , quote , unquote . What

55:55

it comes down to to for me is

55:57

do I believe that my ridicule of

55:59

something is justified and

56:02

I trust myself ? But at some point

56:04

you just have to go for it . You

56:07

have to do it and live through the consequences

56:09

and quote . So basically , I want to know have you ever

56:11

gotten heat for any of your jokes ?

56:13

Oh , yeah , oh , absolutely

56:15

.

56:17

Because , it just seems like everybody . It seems like

56:19

everybody loves you .

56:23

But it's just like I'm thoroughly yeah , yeah

56:25

.

56:26

Especially at the beginning , you know , because , again

56:28

, the medical comedy stuff was pretty new

56:30

. We didn't have TikTok , we

56:32

didn't have all this skit stuff . It was just

56:34

like mainly as me telling jokes on Twitter and

56:37

and there wasn't , there wasn't a blueprint

56:39

for like how to do this , and

56:44

so I made mistakes , I made fun

56:46

of things that I I said that now I would

56:48

never make fun of , and you

56:51

know , taking jabs at patients

56:53

at like . Just I'll use an example

56:55

of like a non

56:57

compliant patient . You know

56:59

something something like that , that

57:01

, yeah , whenever patients don't do what we asked

57:03

them to do , we get frustrated

57:05

as physicians . Right , I

57:07

would like I made , I would make a joke about that

57:10

or something and I'd get immediate pushback

57:12

and people getting mad at me and

57:14

for justified reasons . Like there's a lot

57:16

more that goes into a quote unquote

57:19

, non-compliant patient Right . And

57:21

so , and having

57:24

something like that come from a physician rub

57:26

people the wrong way . It's those types

57:29

of learning experiences

57:31

that I was referring to there because

57:33

, yeah , I didn't know I

57:36

didn't have that , I

57:39

had to live through that , I had to . I had to just

57:41

realize , okay , I really shouldn't

57:43

be pointing my comedy

57:46

in that direction . And so , yeah

57:50

, it's trial and error for a lot of things , and

57:52

now I'm really good about

57:54

knowing , like , which areas to not

57:56

go after and Well , you could even do like

57:58

the same joke just the other way around , right ?

58:00

Because again , it's that power hierarchy , the

58:02

structure of it Exactly . You could

58:04

tell a joke from a quote non-compliant

58:07

patient's perspective about why it's

58:09

ridiculous that the physician expects this

58:11

you know , it's why it's needed to happen Exactly

58:13

.

58:13

You could do that .

58:15

But you notice now , with all my skits it's

58:17

all physician to physician .

58:19

Yeah , it's right . It's a type of comedy , right ? Medical student resident

58:21

yeah .

58:22

You'll never see a patient character

58:24

in my skit . And that's purposeful . I

58:27

don't , because it's just it's

58:29

not worth it . I don't want to do anything

58:31

that's going to undermine the

58:33

physician-patient relationship . It's

58:36

already tenuous . You know how

58:38

a lot of the public sees physicians

58:40

in this day and age , and so I

58:42

don't want to do anything that's going to potentially

58:44

make that worse . And

58:47

making fun of the wrong

58:49

thing , making fun of a patient experience that's

58:51

the easiest way to really mess

58:53

up and get into it and getting trouble Making fun

58:55

of health insurance companies .

58:57

That's punching up .

58:58

Right , how about it ? Because they're powerful , right

59:01

, they're cool , it's not personal

59:03

thing .

59:04

They don't come off as human Right , so

59:06

it's just like a corporation's easy to do after .

59:07

Exactly . So

59:09

I go hard on them more than anything else . Private equity United .

59:11

Health .

59:11

Care all these things . I use their

59:13

logos and call them evil .

59:16

Thankfully there's legal protection for satire

59:19

, otherwise we'd be in big trouble .

59:21

I've never I've not been threatened with legal

59:23

action just yet , yeah Well yeah

59:26

, Let me ask you do you think

59:28

that there would ever be a time when

59:31

you do only comedy and

59:33

not medicine ?

59:38

We've talked about this so many times .

59:39

I know you have . I know you have Because

59:42

I'm like this has got to be a

59:44

discussion , a topic of discussion .

59:49

I'm not seriously considered it . There

59:52

are things that we could do if

59:55

I did quit my day job , but

59:57

it's such a huge connection

1:00:00

to my comedy now , right ? So

1:00:03

I feel like if I stopped practicing medicine which I don't

1:00:05

want to do then what

1:00:09

the content I put out would become

1:00:11

less genuine , and less meaningful

1:00:14

in certain ways , and

1:00:18

so I need to and want to

1:00:21

maintain that connection to

1:00:23

really be able to produce the best comedy

1:00:25

that I can . So

1:00:28

I'm not ready . It would take a lot Netflix

1:00:30

.

1:00:30

Yeah , I'd have to be offered

1:00:32

a lot of money to do some kind of a Netflix

1:00:35

. Maybe they will talk HBO Max Something

1:00:37

.

1:00:41

Well , I think also when you've been through cancer twice

1:00:43

and a cardiac arrest all before 35

1:00:45

, we're both pretty risk averse . We

1:00:48

want to know that that predictability

1:00:50

and stability is there and

1:00:52

the entertainment world is fickle

1:00:55

. So we're enjoying the ride

1:00:57

and we're having a great time and we've got a lot of plans

1:00:59

and a lot of dreams and

1:01:01

whatnot , but it's nice to know

1:01:03

that the medical career

1:01:05

, it , affords us more

1:01:07

freedom .

1:01:08

honestly , in the entertainment .

1:01:10

We don't have to make our living that way

1:01:12

so we can have more freedom

1:01:14

to just be creative and follow whatever we want

1:01:16

to do , rather than what we need to do to feed our

1:01:19

family yeah , so

1:01:21

it'd be a tough sell .

1:01:23

It's a big part of it too . Yeah , Just

1:01:25

having that , just knowing that I have

1:01:27

the stable career that's

1:01:29

always that's going to be there .

1:01:31

Not to mention I was there for all

1:01:34

those years of training . We are going

1:01:36

to get our money's worth .

1:01:37

Yeah , that's true .

1:01:38

That's right , all of it .

1:01:41

All of it from the

1:01:43

beginning . So yeah , you're not done paying

1:01:45

that off yet .

1:01:47

Speaking of paying off stuff , I got a quick

1:01:49

fast-fire question for y'all because I was going to give you a list of

1:01:51

fast-fires since you just walked right into it . So

1:01:54

student loans where y'all at with that , because I'm sure

1:01:56

Dartmouth either way

1:01:58

. Med School or Psychology

1:02:00

was money I started at 320

1:02:04

.

1:02:06

And then now . We're at 150

1:02:10

roughly so at a low

1:02:12

interest rate , so I

1:02:14

could have paid it down probably a lot faster

1:02:16

. But I'm like

1:02:18

the sub three at this point , so

1:02:21

I'm just letting the payments ride at this point

1:02:23

. Got you Putting ?

1:02:24

my money elsewhere .

1:02:25

Got you , but we're feeling

1:02:27

good .

1:02:29

Who's your dream podcast ? Guest or host

1:02:31

, or sorry , no guest , no guest .

1:02:33

He's a host .

1:02:34

Yeah , there

1:02:37

we go .

1:02:40

We've had some good .

1:02:41

I'm going to say Seinfeld . I still

1:02:43

want oh Mahal , oh Mahal

1:02:45

.

1:02:46

That has nothing to do with our podcast but he would

1:02:48

do it in a hot second .

1:02:49

From a comedy standpoint , I would say

1:02:52

either Conan O'Brien

1:02:54

or Ken Jeong

1:02:56

. Yeah , ken Jeong .

1:02:58

Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , we really want to

1:03:00

have Ken Jeong .

1:03:01

I've reached out to him already .

1:03:02

Yeah , I don't know if we have any shot at it ever .

1:03:05

But , that would be ideal Come on Ken

1:03:07

.

1:03:08

Right .

1:03:08

I know .

1:03:10

Who's the better podcast host ?

1:03:13

Me .

1:03:15

I think Kristen asked better questions . You're

1:03:19

pretty good at it .

1:03:19

Yeah , we're pretty , I mean like our real life . I

1:03:21

think we're a good team . He

1:03:24

keeps it light and keeps it moving and keeps it funny

1:03:27

, and I'm more of the let's go

1:03:29

in depth and be insightful and curious

1:03:31

.

1:03:32

So I like to crack jokes

1:03:34

, but Kristen's also

1:03:36

. You can turn it on . Yeah , the comedy

1:03:38

.

1:03:39

I just like . I don't want to make you feel bad .

1:03:41

No , oh , I

1:03:43

appreciate that .

1:03:45

Thank you .

1:03:45

But who's so ? William

1:03:47

, I know you're the comedian .

1:03:50

Yeah .

1:03:50

Actually , who's funnier ?

1:03:53

That is a hot debate in this house .

1:03:56

Yeah , we have different types of comedy

1:03:58

of humor .

1:04:01

I like to say that he makes jokes and

1:04:03

I have a sense of humor . Does

1:04:06

it make any sense ? I don't know

1:04:08

. What are you ?

1:04:08

talking about . It does . She

1:04:10

likes puns and word play and stuff

1:04:13

.

1:04:13

Well that's one thing I like Only if they're

1:04:15

good Dad jokes Are you like dad jokes .

1:04:17

No , no , not dad jokes . They have to be good

1:04:19

, they have to be like clever .

1:04:20

Yeah , well , really .

1:04:21

You know , Like

1:04:24

a little high brow . Yeah , yeah , I like the word play

1:04:27

.

1:04:27

But I also just like a really good

1:04:29

, like a clever quip or

1:04:32

some really dark comedy or

1:04:34

you know , I don't know . I think we

1:04:37

both have good sense of humor . Yeah , Mine's better

1:04:41

, Mine's a little better though .

1:04:43

Well , so I don't know about that . I think

1:04:45

what would our guests say , or what would our

1:04:47

listeners say ?

1:04:49

Well , you're playing the role of the funny one

1:04:51

and I'm playing the role of the inquisitive

1:04:53

one , that's true .

1:04:56

Yeah , who apologized

1:04:58

first after an argument ?

1:05:01

Oh me .

1:05:04

You should apologize first after an argument

1:05:06

, but I don't think that's usually how it goes

1:05:09

.

1:05:09

Well , she saved my life , so I kind of have to .

1:05:11

Yeah .

1:05:12

He has to concede every argument

1:05:14

. That's all right . It's all right . It's all right , it's all right

1:05:17

, it doesn't matter what you do . Yeah , I saved

1:05:19

your life . Yeah .

1:05:21

No , I'll usually be the one to apologize

1:05:23

first , unless I just get stubborn and I let it

1:05:25

go overnight and then when

1:05:27

he wakes up he's like I'm sorry , he's

1:05:30

got to think about it for a little while .

1:05:32

Yeah , he's got to have his space , yeah

1:05:35

.

1:05:35

Yeah Me apologizing , I've learned that over the years .

1:05:37

Yeah , yeah , I apologize first

1:05:39

. Yeah , he does , I do , do

1:05:41

you ?

1:05:41

need to

1:05:44

. Yeah , the kids , the kids got .

1:05:46

Yeah , we're going to have to take them to lessons

1:05:49

.

1:05:49

Yeah , we got the kids

1:05:51

got music lessons . They're

1:05:53

probably like what are we going to do ?

1:05:57

They got them to play violin and piano and singing

1:05:59

.

1:06:02

So hopefully they're ready , they're ready , and

1:06:05

just so everybody knows that is

1:06:07

a wrapped in , we get the

1:06:09

sign . I mean it's a wrap

1:06:11

. Listen the Glock

1:06:13

and Fleckens . There it is everyone . We really

1:06:15

appreciate your time . We know that it's

1:06:17

tough balancing everything and you

1:06:19

got to go to your mom and dad duties and so forth

1:06:21

, but this was a great opportunity to

1:06:23

just get a little bit behind the scenes . Our

1:06:26

podcast we kind of talk about like lifestyle , we talk

1:06:28

about student loan debt . We talk about even

1:06:30

balancing all of these different things . So that's why we wanted

1:06:32

you on the show , because there's so many different perspectives

1:06:36

that both of y'all bring that you know we

1:06:38

deal with and we talk about individually

1:06:40

, but to have both of you guys kind of talking about these

1:06:42

things it was really great .

1:06:44

So thank you so much for coming on the show

1:06:46

.

1:06:46

Thanks for having us . This was so fun . It was

1:06:48

great to meet you .

1:06:49

Great talking to you . Thanks for having us on .

1:06:52

I didn't even hear any banging , so your kids

1:06:54

must be successful . Yep

1:06:56

, that's it . A mallet Good

1:06:59

to go .

1:07:00

Nice or whiskey . Thanks guys , all right , thank you

1:07:02

.

1:07:06

Thanks guys .