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2:01

Tonight's guest is

2:03

Caden Wilmach.

2:26

Caden,

2:30

welcome to the show. Well, thank

2:32

you for having me. I'm happy to be here. Well,

2:34

it's great having you on. Thank you for your

2:36

time. Caden, please

2:38

give us a brief bio on yourself.

2:42

I am a 28-year-old computer

2:45

engineer. I'm living

2:47

in the Midwest,

2:49

more western hemisphere of the United States

2:52

currently

2:52

in the mountainous region. I

2:55

spent a lot of time growing up in Alaska,

2:58

and where this story takes place

3:01

is specifically in the

3:04

southeast Alaska, where the

3:06

ice fields kind of meet up with the mountain

3:09

range at the back end of town and

3:11

spill over into the glaciers that you can actually

3:13

see from Juneau, Alaska.

3:16

You think the western mountain ranges are about

3:18

as ideal of a place for dogmen as there is.

3:21

Why do you think that? I

3:24

think

3:24

the foresty regions would be a great

3:27

habitat for these sorts of creatures, given

3:30

its natural cover, the

3:32

abundance of wildlife

3:34

that is needed to sustain

3:37

the caloric intake of a creature like this,

3:40

as well as these more heavily wooded

3:42

mountainous terrains are harder for us

3:44

to build

3:46

modern infrastructure into. It's

3:48

more of a natural resource that they can continue

3:51

to exist in.

3:53

I think there's a lot of benefit to

3:56

these sorts of more wildernessy

3:59

type places that are

3:59

a bit away from the buzz of humanity.

4:02

Because

4:03

I think these things are probably, if

4:05

not more so, conscious of us than we are

4:07

of them. And as a species,

4:09

I imagine they would take steps to avoid

4:12

our immediate detection to

4:14

their presence for, I don't

4:17

know, maybe fear of retaliation

4:19

or people trying to find them for scientific

4:22

research and

4:24

just messing up the general flow of their life.

4:26

Like they, as much as anything else, just

4:28

wants to exist and

4:30

continue to do its thing and hunt its hunting

4:33

grounds and

4:34

live undisturbed.

4:36

Unfortunately, I think you're right. They are

4:38

a lot more conscious of us than

4:40

we are of them. So, like

4:43

I said, that's not a good thing. Your

4:45

encounter happened in Juneau, Alaska, like

4:47

you said. What can you tell us about the place?

4:51

Juneau, Alaska is the capital

4:54

city of Alaska, but for being a capital

4:56

city, it is relatively small. It

4:59

itself is landlocked. The

5:02

only way is in is through bow and

5:04

plane. And that's not for it necessarily

5:07

being an island, but because on the

5:09

border to the inland side of

5:12

it is mountain ranges and about 500

5:15

miles of ice fields. I

5:17

mean, you, I guess technically could cross

5:19

it, but

5:20

for any sane person, they

5:22

recognize that you just simply cannot cross that.

5:25

And

5:26

it's a relatively quiet place, lots of nature,

5:29

lots of hiking trails, lots of outdoorsy

5:31

things to do, which was great for

5:34

me and my family. We're the outdoorsy

5:37

sorts. We like our camping. We like our hunting

5:39

and fishing and

5:40

outdoor survival. Me

5:43

running trails around town wasn't

5:46

uncommon, especially after I got

5:48

my first vehicle and had the

5:50

means to get out to the different trailheads myself.

5:53

And that's what I was doing this particular

5:56

day. I've been to several

5:58

places in Alaska, but never been. been

6:00

to Juneau, it sounds like a beautiful place

6:02

though, and you're making me want to visit

6:04

it.

6:05

It's gorgeous. It's a great place to visit.

6:08

Yeah, sounds like it.

6:10

I would highly recommend,

6:13

especially if you like cabins.

6:16

You have to book in advance, but the

6:18

Shrine of St. Teresa out past,

6:21

it's around 34 mile,

6:24

beautiful place. They've got some cabins

6:27

that overlook the water and are tucked up into the

6:29

forest and some really well-maintained gardens.

6:32

Strongly recommend.

6:33

It sounds beautiful.

6:36

You were living with your dad at the time of your encounter.

6:38

Did you have any reservations about sharing

6:41

it with him?

6:42

I think for me personally, I would say,

6:44

no, I don't have any reservations.

6:46

I don't have any necessary ill

6:49

thoughts about the encounter. I think

6:52

that the only reservations I would have

6:54

in sharing the information

6:57

about these creatures is that

6:59

it would encourage people who

7:02

want to find these things to

7:04

spend more time looking for them, looking for

7:06

their signs, what sort of things. I

7:09

would say

7:10

it's okay to understand what's out there and

7:12

to be wary of it, but actively

7:15

pursuing something like this instead of recognizing

7:17

it sounds and taking a measure of avoidance

7:21

could be very risky to somebody. We

7:23

don't particularly know what happens

7:25

if you stumble onto this thing's den or wherever

7:27

it resides and it decides

7:29

to take up a defensive stance towards

7:32

you because

7:34

based on the one I saw, I could not

7:36

have fought this thing off if it had any

7:38

interest in me whatsoever.

7:40

A lot of the research

7:42

I'd done after my encounter

7:45

was from a perspective

7:47

of wanting to understand the greater

7:49

scope of what I'd seen and also

7:52

how to understand what to

7:54

caution myself and others

7:57

towards when traveling alone in the wilderness.

8:01

It's safe to say that no one could fight one of these things

8:03

off without a lot of help. Yeah,

8:05

I agree. Yeah, it's not just you.

8:10

You were living with your dad at the time. What

8:12

were his opinions on the existence of cryptids

8:14

like Dogman and Sasquatch?

8:17

So I was living with my dad at

8:19

the time, and actually

8:21

I think this would have been right after I moved

8:23

out of his place.

8:25

But I was in Alaska with my dad.

8:27

It was something that

8:29

we didn't talk about

8:31

too terribly much. I think he

8:34

was in the skeptical nature

8:36

of

8:37

I would rather not believe, and my

8:39

stepmom was very much in the nature of

8:41

I believe there's truth to every superstition.

8:44

And so a lot of the times I would talk about these things, I

8:46

would usually talk about it to my stepmom.

8:49

And she was an Alaska

8:51

Native woman, and

8:54

she very much took the stance of it's

8:56

good to understand,

8:58

but not to poke. That's

9:00

a good way to put it. And I can understand

9:02

why your dad didn't want to believe in their existence,

9:05

because he had a lot easier to head into

9:07

the woods when you don't believe that Dogman

9:09

or Sasquatch are out there, but

9:11

guess what? They are.

9:14

What were your thoughts on their existence before you had that

9:16

experience? I

9:18

mean, to a degree, I would

9:20

say life

9:23

altering. Not world shattering,

9:25

but I'd always

9:28

kind of been, you know,

9:29

I'm a scientist by nature,

9:31

and

9:32

I think it is in

9:34

my

9:36

ways to question and to

9:38

seek answers and understanding of. And

9:41

that was one of the first moments where

9:43

I had felt like

9:46

I was a young adult and

9:48

had learned enough of what I

9:50

needed to to get by. And

9:53

seeing something like that moving the way it

9:55

did, and I was like, wow,

9:57

I really don't understand a lot about

9:59

this nature.

9:59

stuff. And I mean,

10:02

that's not to say that like, I didn't understand like,

10:04

natural medicines, or like how to make a makeshift

10:07

splint, or how to make

10:10

your way through the

10:11

woods or track or

10:13

try to make less of a track or not

10:15

make as much noise while you're running, which

10:17

does come into play later in the story. But

10:21

there were still a lot of unknowns. And this was

10:23

a big eye opening to, there

10:26

are unknowns. And there are things

10:28

that we may only see in glimpses

10:31

and in passing once for

10:33

our lives. But that doesn't

10:35

deny their existence. And that doesn't discredit

10:37

the experience of myself and all

10:40

the other people who have seen these things throughout the

10:42

world. Oh, you're right. Yeah,

10:44

definitely doesn't discredit it.

10:47

If you've had a dogman encounter and would like to speak

10:49

with me about it, whether I'm private or on the show,

10:52

please go to dogmanencounters.com

10:55

and submit a report.

10:56

If you've had a Bigfoot sighting and would like to be

10:58

a guest on one of my two Bigfoot shows, please

11:01

go to mybigfootsiting.com and

11:04

let me know.

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12:39

All right, Caden, please tell us about your encounter

12:42

now. Give us every last detail that comes

12:44

to mind. Yeah,

12:47

this was early May, probably

12:50

like May 7th to 10th-ish, 2013 in the

12:52

morning time,

12:56

no later than 830, I'd have to say.

12:59

I'd already been on the trail

13:02

running up this way.

13:04

So I'll go

13:06

ahead and give a brief description of Juneau

13:09

and get back a little bit. It

13:12

is a very foresty, mountainous

13:14

region, temperate rainforest

13:16

with, especially in the spring and summertime,

13:19

a traditionally very heavy rainfall.

13:22

The

13:24

frosted earths up towards

13:26

the mountains, as it's coming off of that

13:29

winter into late spring, there's still

13:31

sometimes a lot of dampness

13:34

to the ground.

13:36

There are these old trails

13:38

through the forest that are

13:40

on wooden

13:43

planks that are moored

13:46

down into the mud so that they don't sink

13:48

too far, but

13:50

they are kind of sunken into the mud a bit. And

13:53

a lot of the trails I would go to run on

13:56

would be these wider trails that would lead up to these

13:59

wooden pathways.

13:59

And at the

14:02

time, this

14:03

particular week had been pretty

14:05

dry, and so I felt comfortable knowing that

14:08

I wasn't going to sink into the mud.

14:10

But it was kind

14:12

of like it rained the

14:14

previous night, not super heavy,

14:16

but enough to where there was still

14:18

a little bit of softness to the top side of

14:20

the earth. But based on like how

14:22

dry it had been, it wasn't like

14:25

super murky.

14:27

And I was wearing, I

14:29

had this weighted vest

14:31

and ankle set.

14:33

Because

14:34

I was training to see if I could get into

14:36

a firefighter academy.

14:39

And I

14:39

wanted to synthesize

14:42

the weight of the gear that I'd

14:44

be carrying. So it was like 75 pounds

14:46

on the vest.

14:48

I had like 15 pounds on each

14:50

arm, like on my wrists.

14:52

And then I had an extra 20

14:54

pounds per leg on my ankles.

14:57

And I would go jog these trails.

15:00

And so that's why I was always worried about sinking into

15:02

the mud is I'm

15:03

not the lightest person on earth.

15:05

And when you're wearing

15:08

that extra 100 pounds or so,

15:10

it takes a lot

15:12

to not sink into those soft spots of the

15:14

earth.

15:15

And so I was excited to

15:17

pursue this trail that I had come up to

15:19

the wooden path trail head and always

15:22

turned around and went back to my car.

15:24

And so once it gets

15:27

onto those sort of like wooden paths, the tree

15:29

cover tends to become much more dense. These

15:32

trails not being used nearly as much. They

15:34

tend to be a little bit more forested

15:37

over low hanging tree branch types.

15:40

Sometimes these big trees

15:42

get blown over in storms.

15:44

So usually you don't have trees laying across

15:46

the path, but you have trees that will lay next

15:49

to it.

15:50

And so there were a number of those

15:52

kind of mossy, kind of cool damp, you

15:55

know, it was a nice run. It

15:56

was like nice and shady early morning,

15:59

sunset.

15:59

kind of coming up to greet the day. It's looking

16:02

like a nice day. Nothing

16:03

too out of the ordinary.

16:06

I'm making my way up

16:08

towards the ridge where the ridge

16:10

overlooks the glacier and then sweeps

16:12

down to where the V of the ice

16:15

comes through. If you look at

16:17

a picture of the Mendenhall Glacier, you

16:19

can see where it points in

16:21

towards the river. There's a rock

16:24

ridge up on the left side. And that's

16:26

where I was, as I was in the forest running

16:28

towards that rock ridge. I

16:32

could tell I was getting to a higher elevation

16:34

by the kind of the way the air

16:36

was thinning,

16:38

and I could feel the coolness of it as the

16:40

wind blows it off the ice.

16:43

Now, wind itself is a balance

16:45

of temperature.

16:46

As the different molecules are

16:49

moving through the space, the warmer

16:51

ones and the colder ones are going to collide,

16:54

create friction, and want to balance, and

16:56

whichever one has the stronger thermal force

16:59

is going to win in the direction that the wind blows. It was

17:01

kind of doing this back and forth where the

17:04

cold air would rush off the glacier into the forest,

17:06

and then the warm forest air would roll

17:08

up from behind me towards the glacier.

17:11

And it was in one of those humid

17:13

swells

17:15

of warmer air behind me

17:18

that I started to smell something,

17:21

and it smelled

17:23

like a dead animal,

17:25

like rotten fat,

17:30

like curted cheese left in

17:32

a bag to

17:33

sit in the sun. And

17:36

I

17:37

was very confused

17:39

because I had just run from that direction,

17:41

and I hadn't smelled anything leading up to it.

17:44

I hadn't noticed any signs

17:46

of, you know, like a carcass or something.

17:50

It wasn't like super marshy, and so

17:52

I didn't think like an animal got stuck in

17:54

the mud and then like died or anything.

17:56

It was very out of place in

17:58

this moment. And

17:59

And so I

18:01

think that kind of

18:03

set my hairs on end and

18:06

I slowed from like my

18:08

jogged pace to you know

18:10

sort of a walk and turned

18:12

around to look and I didn't

18:14

see anything so I gave another

18:16

sniff and it was

18:18

pungent.

18:20

Whatever had been making this

18:22

scent

18:23

smelled significantly closer

18:25

and

18:26

so then I started thinking this

18:29

might be an animal like a bear or something

18:32

got into whatever it got

18:34

into and you know is now the

18:37

rotting viscera on its fur is

18:40

making a presence and so I'm like looking into

18:42

the trees like can I see anything can I hear

18:44

anything and

18:45

when I focused into it I

18:48

did hear snapping

18:51

of like tree brushes and the lower

18:53

foliage of like the

18:55

the skunk cabbage and the devil's club

18:57

just being like shoved aside

18:59

as something big was moving through and

19:02

so I'm thinking this

19:04

is bear

19:05

it's running after me.

19:07

Bears can run like a good 30

19:09

miles an hour and so

19:12

I dip off the trail and I took

19:14

off

19:16

my arm weights first because I was thinking

19:18

if I have to climb this tree I

19:20

don't want my arms restricted and

19:23

so I take these arm weights off and I drop

19:25

them down and I'm like looking out to the trail

19:28

and

19:28

what burst through wasn't a bear it

19:31

was a deer first.

19:33

I want to say like four point buck

19:37

you know sizable deer wasn't the biggest

19:39

I'd ever seen but you know a good a good

19:41

buck and it

19:43

is just like full

19:45

force running does not care

19:48

about any lick of what

19:50

sound it's making and it bounds

19:52

out from like the side of this foliage

19:55

kicks off the trail itself and there was like

19:58

a tree laying

19:59

lengthwise.

19:59

flies in the mud on the far side of the trail

20:02

where it came over and it like springboarded off

20:04

the trail over this tree and

20:06

like back into the underbrush.

20:09

And I was

20:10

sitting there and I'm like, well, that's not what I expected.

20:13

And

20:14

I went to like stand and

20:16

like peer around this tree, but something

20:19

deep inside me, that

20:21

survival instinct that says, no,

20:24

don't stay in place, just took

20:26

over and I was frozen

20:28

in spot.

20:30

And I'm glad I didn't stand because I'm

20:33

not even two seconds after this

20:35

thing, this like massive

20:37

dark shape comes hurtling out

20:39

of the mid upper tree branches

20:42

like 15, 20 feet up in the air at

20:44

a diagonal downward trajectory,

20:48

four limbs, two of them outstretched

20:50

in front of it. It catches that

20:52

log

20:54

that the deer just bounded over

20:56

and launched itself after this thing.

20:59

I was completely shocked,

21:02

but I did get a pretty good look at its

21:04

side profile.

21:06

This thing was long,

21:09

canine based

21:12

on the

21:14

way that the hips were mounted

21:17

and the front legs kind of

21:19

curled forward and then eventually in

21:21

and up to its chest when it did its spring.

21:25

I could definitely see this thing as being

21:28

a bipedal creature, even though

21:30

I hadn't myself seen it stand

21:33

on its two legs. I saw

21:35

it in a full blown sprint.

21:39

The hair, it

21:40

was like

21:42

a black brownish red, very

21:46

disheveled.

21:48

I think it was a black furred creature

21:50

that was covered

21:53

in mud and dried blood. You

21:55

know when dried blood and the iron turns

21:58

to that brownish?

21:59

browny oxidized color. It

22:02

was very much that, but

22:04

present in like patches throughout the fur

22:07

all up on its where its forearms

22:09

would have been around the mouth

22:12

and the chest area,

22:14

like a not particularly clean eater.

22:16

And

22:17

when this thing was in my visibility, that

22:20

scent

22:21

was enough to make me gag if

22:23

I had been breathing in that time.

22:26

But it full service,

22:29

all of my functions were stopped in

22:31

that moment.

22:32

It was just survival panic.

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24:07

It had a wide,

24:09

like wide shoulders and

24:12

these long, long, long

24:16

dark muscular arms

24:18

that had

24:19

four talons or

24:22

clawed fingers. I guess talons isn't the right word,

24:25

but like thick muscular fingers with like

24:28

these claws on it that could

24:30

be depicted for either piercing

24:32

or slashing

24:34

or like holding something down while it like

24:36

latched into it with its teeth.

24:38

And in this application

24:40

it used them to catch and grip the

24:43

log

24:44

and then pull itself kind of up to the

24:46

log and while it did so, its hind

24:48

legs came up to its chest and put it's

24:50

like the balls of its feet like right

24:53

in between where its palms would be. And then

24:55

it launched its front limbs backwards

24:57

while it kicked off with its hind legs and

25:00

just shot into the forest like a bullet.

25:02

The speed

25:04

was incredible.

25:07

Just almost incomprehensible.

25:10

Way faster than that deer was moving and

25:13

I knew it was

25:16

gone and it was moving away, but I

25:18

knew I had to get out of there. And

25:20

so I already had the arm weights down. It was

25:23

going to take too long to take the leg weights off because I would

25:25

have taken my shoes off first. And so I

25:27

just dumped the jacket on the ground, the

25:30

vest, I just unzipped, unlatched

25:32

and dumped it and I started running

25:35

and I didn't run directly

25:37

on the wood path itself.

25:39

I was running kind of in the dirt and

25:42

like jumping from like over

25:44

pronounced root to over pronounced

25:46

root so that my boots

25:48

wouldn't make that hollow sound

25:52

on the wood

25:54

as I ran and I actually eventually

25:57

kind of veered

25:58

off the trail.

25:59

and went straight towards

26:02

where I knew that ridge would

26:04

be.

26:05

And I had decided to run forward to

26:07

get out of here, even though it went into deeper forest,

26:10

because this thing was between me and

26:12

the trail to leave. So I

26:14

figured

26:16

I'm just going to have to hike another way

26:18

down out of here and plan an extra four hours

26:20

to my day.

26:22

I made it.

26:23

When your feet pounding

26:26

and heart pumping and your body's

26:28

just trying to get oxygen, I think I had

26:31

five solid breaths, maybe 15 good

26:34

steps before I hear the cry

26:37

out of this elk as it

26:39

was captured. It

26:41

was a pained,

26:43

dying scream. Death

26:46

was in the air. I

26:48

knew that deer was not making it out of

26:50

that fight alive.

26:53

And I was so

26:56

grateful for it, for

26:58

being there, to

26:59

give its life so that I had

27:01

a distraction to get away. I

27:04

made it to the face of the glacier and

27:08

I climbed down the rocks

27:10

that were off to that left side. I had to

27:12

do a little bit of swimming to get to

27:14

a different beach section when I did

27:17

eventually get down.

27:19

I eventually made my way back to where

27:22

the loading bay for the river

27:24

rafts was, and then from there was able to hike

27:26

back up to the trailhead where my truck was.

27:29

It did take me several extra hours. This

27:31

whole time, I was

27:33

just trying to process what I'd seen and what

27:36

I'd smelled. It didn't

27:38

even dawn on me that I'd left my weighted

27:40

vest and arm guard

27:42

things behind until I

27:45

was basically home.

27:47

It was like crap. Those were expensive.

27:51

The next couple of days,

27:54

I told this story to my friend group. Of

27:57

course, all of them are as skeptical as boys

27:59

are.

27:59

And they're like, Oh, sure. That's definitely what

28:02

you saw.

28:03

There was a big black wolf up

28:05

in Mendenhall named Romeo. And

28:08

a couple of my friends were trying to convince me that's

28:10

what I saw. They were like, Oh, you just saw Romeo. Romeo

28:13

was out hunting. I'm like, Oh, Romeo,

28:16

eight feet long, bro.

28:18

So eventually, a couple of days later, we

28:21

did get a party together

28:22

to go out there and look and

28:25

as silly as it was,

28:27

we were we armed ourselves

28:29

to the teeth going into this. So

28:32

we had long rifles. We had pistols.

28:34

We had shotguns like we were a

28:36

kid up for, you know, whatever

28:38

sort of encounter we might come up against.

28:41

And I think it was

28:43

probably a little startling to there

28:45

was a biker that was coming out of the trail

28:48

when we were like going up it

28:50

for him to just be leaving and see

28:52

a group of teenage boys walking

28:54

into the woods, armed to the teeth. And

28:59

so

29:00

we're going up this trail and my friends

29:02

keep pointing to every laid over tree and they're

29:04

like, Oh, is this the one? Is this one? I'm like,

29:06

I don't know, guys, let's find the

29:08

vest. And then once we have the vest, I can point

29:10

out the tree.

29:11

And so

29:13

we were on this trail a good way as I hadn't realized

29:15

how far up I actually had been just

29:17

because I was zoned out doing

29:19

my jog the time before. But

29:22

we went up pretty high and found

29:25

the vest and my arm guards

29:27

laying in the mud.

29:28

And so

29:29

we grabbed those

29:31

and backtracked to where that fallen

29:33

over tree had been.

29:34

And we were looking over the top of it

29:37

and we see these eight

29:39

gouge marks,

29:41

maybe three quarters an inch to

29:43

an inch and a half thick, depending on

29:45

which incision it was. But there was

29:47

four per side, eight in total of

29:50

these marks where it had like gripped the

29:52

log. And then in the in between

29:54

where it had kicked off, the bark was like splintered

29:58

off from the force of something

29:59

launching pretty hard. And

30:03

it was looking at those that my

30:05

friends started to give more

30:07

validity to my story. And

30:10

we smelled around, and I was like, if it was here, we could

30:13

smell it. You guys would know. I would

30:15

know. I'm not forgetting that smell. It

30:18

smelled like wet meat,

30:20

like rancid fat and wet

30:22

meat. I don't

30:25

know how a creature gets to smelling like

30:27

that, but it was pungent.

30:30

We didn't smell it for this bit. And so

30:32

we were like, well,

30:33

let's go into the forest more. And as

30:35

we followed the trajectory of where this thing launched,

30:37

we actually found the deer's path. We found

30:40

its tracks. We found

30:42

the broken branches from where

30:44

it had shoved its way through things. There

30:46

was an antler gouge mark

30:48

where it pushed its way through a

30:51

patch of, I don't know if you know what skunk

30:53

cabbage is, but they're these big,

30:55

long leaflet things. And it looked like

30:57

it had tore a chunk of the skunk cabbage

30:59

with its antlers. It was trying to rampage

31:02

its way through. And we

31:04

find it's not like a clearing. It's just

31:06

like a slight break in the trees. And

31:09

there's dried blood on the tree

31:12

and dried blood on the moss, dried

31:15

blood on a variety of sticks

31:17

trimmed throughout the area. There's

31:20

a number of leg bones

31:23

laying on the ground that looks like they've been

31:25

chewed on. All the meat completely

31:28

stripped. And certain animals

31:30

will bite through the bones to get into

31:32

the marrow inside. And that's what these ones were

31:34

like. They were crunched

31:36

to get every bit of

31:40

sustenance out of this thing. But

31:42

we only found the bones to one leg. We

31:45

found the bones and a lot of blood.

31:48

So we were all like, well, where's

31:50

the rest of the deer?

31:52

And to this day, we don't know for certain, but

31:55

we're pretty confident that it

31:57

took the rest of it back for either

31:59

of midnight.

31:59

snack or maybe this

32:02

was a mother and it had younglings to

32:04

feed or

32:05

your guess is as good as mine but we

32:08

never found the rest of that deer and after

32:10

finding the leg all destroyed like that my friends

32:13

and I were happy enough to leave

32:15

I got the vest that I had come

32:18

for and they all got the

32:20

proof to my story and

32:22

I don't think any of us really went

32:24

running that trail or up

32:26

that side of the ice fields again and

32:29

I certainly never went solo

32:32

not to that area at least

32:34

can't say I blame you for not wanting to go solo out

32:36

there after an experience

32:38

like that wow when

32:41

that dog me and jumped down onto that log

32:43

and sprung off in pursuit of the deer did

32:46

it ever seem to notice you being there you

32:49

know I

32:51

feel like something traveling at that

32:54

sort of speed being able to hunt with

32:56

that sort of precision I

32:58

can't imagine that it didn't know I was

33:00

there

33:02

but

33:03

as far as a caloric intake between

33:05

a hiker and an

33:08

adult deer like if I

33:10

was the dog man I'd pick the deer every time but

33:13

it didn't like necessarily look at me it didn't

33:15

slow down as much I

33:18

did get the profile of its eye

33:20

at least the side of its

33:22

right eye because it was kind of forward

33:25

facing eye structure similar to that

33:27

of a dog I

33:29

couldn't tell you much the color based

33:31

on the distance and the fact that I was trying

33:33

to take in the details of the rest of it but

33:36

I if I were to make a guess I'd probably have to say

33:38

like brown or amber or red

33:41

but it didn't it didn't

33:43

feel the need to take notice to me and

33:46

so if it did notice me I wasn't able to tell

33:48

I'm

33:49

pretty sure you're right I'm pretty sure that it knew

33:51

you were there but it didn't really matter

33:53

to it it had business to dole out so

33:56

he had just continued on and dispatched the

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35:31

Was

35:31

it holding its ears up or were they pinned

35:33

back? Pinned back.

35:36

Pinned back and I

35:39

think this is probably because of the way it was moving

35:41

through the branches.

35:43

And this is something that

35:45

earlier you'd asked if I did some research

35:47

on it after the fact. And the answer to that question is

35:49

yes, most definitely.

35:51

And I found several examples

35:54

of different dogman sightings within

35:56

the western hemisphere

35:58

of like

35:59

Colorado. up through Alaska where

36:01

these things are in heavily

36:03

forested areas. I

36:06

think

36:07

personally, a reason that we likely don't

36:10

see very many tracks for these things is because they

36:12

don't move on the ground.

36:14

I think they move through the trees.

36:17

Having your ears pinned back

36:19

would be easier for jumping from

36:21

branch to branch without having to worry about your ears

36:23

getting whipped by a stray branch

36:26

or anything.

36:27

Those are really good points about the ears protecting

36:30

them and also a way of traveling

36:32

without revealing your presence, so

36:34

I'll bet you're right on both counts.

36:37

Did you ever notice if it had a tail on it? Um,

36:42

not particularly. If

36:44

it did have a tail, it would

36:47

have curled with the legs.

36:50

I could see a creature like this

36:52

having one for balance reasons, especially

36:54

if it is leaping from tree to tree,

36:56

but most of its momentum

36:59

seemed to be carried by the front part

37:01

of its body with power

37:05

from the hind legs being used to accent

37:07

the jump.

37:08

It happened very fast.

37:11

I'd originally taken in the whole side profile

37:14

and was like, that's a wolf. Then it

37:16

grabbed the log and I thought, maybe not.

37:19

So I was looking at the head

37:21

structure, I was looking at the color of

37:23

the fur, the anatomy of

37:26

the paws.

37:27

The tail didn't

37:29

strike me as a

37:34

particularly memorable component because

37:37

even picturing it, I have my

37:39

eyes closed and I'm trying to picture the moment

37:42

of this thing coming down from the tree and

37:45

pulling the legs up.

37:48

Yeah, actually, thinking about

37:50

it now, I do think when

37:53

it pulled its legs up there, it could

37:55

have been a tail, but at that point, I wasn't quite

37:57

looking at its back as much

37:59

I was watching it bring its feet

38:02

to its chest and springboard off of this

38:04

log at

38:05

god knows how fast. So

38:08

very possibly having

38:10

a tail would make sense for this sort of

38:12

creature.

38:13

I wonder if it keeps it like

38:16

tucked in for the

38:17

similar purpose of protecting your ears when

38:19

you're jumping like that.

38:21

Maybe it tucks its tail as well.

38:24

It just might is hard to say.

38:26

When it came down out of the trees and

38:29

landed on that log was more of

38:31

a controlled crash or

38:33

did it seem to be totally under control of its

38:35

body? It

38:38

seemed to be aiming for it.

38:41

Like it had launched itself from an upper

38:43

branch and that was its next springboard

38:46

location.

38:47

It didn't fumble. It

38:48

was very graceful.

38:51

It was very precise in

38:53

its movement, even to the point of

38:55

like bringing its feet up to its

38:57

chest while still in the air so

39:00

that it was ready to spring as soon as

39:02

its chest had like rotated itself off

39:04

of the upper arm extension enough to

39:07

accent the throw. Because

39:09

it was slingshotting itself with the upper body

39:11

and using its lower body to

39:14

pounce off of the object

39:16

in question. It went

39:19

upwards. And so I was thinking

39:22

because the trail runs there, the

39:24

trees weren't close enough for it to jump

39:27

from branch to branch.

39:29

And so it aimed for a large target that was

39:31

on the ground so that it could springboard

39:33

itself back up into a larger tree

39:35

to get verticality over its prey.

39:39

I wouldn't say it was a crash at all.

39:41

It sure is amazing how they do a lot of things

39:44

that they do.

39:45

And on that note,

39:47

I remember mentioning this in

39:49

the written brief. I know I saw

39:52

it. I

39:52

know I heard the scream of the

39:55

elk.

39:56

I heard the crashing of the

39:58

branches as the elk charged through. But

40:00

when this thing came out of the trees and when

40:02

it landed on the log and I saw it grab

40:05

and push off the log,

40:07

I'm still not sure I heard this

40:09

creature make a sound. It

40:12

was unearthly quiet,

40:16

and I think that speaks to the level of

40:18

control that it had in this leap. Oh

40:21

sure, yeah, to do that so quietly would

40:23

have to be under total control, so yeah, I'd

40:26

say you're right about that. How

40:28

far do you think you were from it in the deer when

40:30

you heard it catch it?

40:32

Like 30, 35 yards.

40:35

I'll bet it seemed like it was right next to you. Oh

40:38

yeah, well

40:39

I mean 30 yards isn't that much of a distance

40:41

when you get down to it.

40:43

No not at all. You

40:45

told us about the mud and what looked like might have

40:47

been blood in its fur, but outside of

40:49

that did it seem to be in good health or was

40:52

it in rough shape?

40:54

I mean it seems

40:57

to be in pretty good health. It seemed,

41:00

I would guess, adult, mature

41:02

adults.

41:04

I couldn't tell you fur battle

41:06

scars because I didn't get a close look

41:08

at this thing or that but the

41:10

fur itself seemed a bit disheveled

41:13

but not

41:14

like mangy.

41:16

Like a creature that

41:18

probably rolls around in the dirt

41:20

a lot or in

41:21

whatever else may permeate

41:26

its den as evident of

41:29

what I could only assume to be dried viscera

41:31

in its coat.

41:33

It wasn't a particularly clean animal.

41:36

I don't think it necessarily cared

41:38

too much for cleanliness. I

41:42

don't

41:42

think that necessarily bothered it

41:44

or inhibited its ability to hunt.

41:47

If anything, it would

41:50

probably make that sort of scent

41:52

if it was a commonality in these creatures

41:55

which I see conflicting reports on constantly

41:58

but

41:59

that usually happens. ends up being

42:01

based on the region.

42:03

This was something I thought about after our previous conversation

42:06

is maybe the smell and

42:08

that gathering

42:11

food for younglings, maybe that was

42:14

specific to a maternal

42:17

dog man creature, like a

42:20

mother that has to be known in

42:22

an area and has to

42:24

establish which region is hers so

42:26

that

42:27

others don't come and try to compete

42:29

in her territory for a

42:31

food source between like her and her young.

42:34

These things would have a massive

42:36

caloric intake.

42:38

I thought maybe it was

42:40

something like that.

42:41

Maybe it's the

42:44

process of covering yourself in blood is some

42:46

sort of mating ritual to these things. I

42:49

don't know. I just always thought messy

42:51

eater and doesn't bathe

42:54

tends to lead to the smell

42:56

of rot. There was never

42:59

a smell that I've more closely assigned with

43:01

imminent danger than

43:02

what I'd smelled that day. Yeah,

43:05

I can understand why you would say that. It

43:08

sounds like you didn't see any genitalia. Is

43:10

that accurate? That's accurate.

43:13

I did not see any strong depiction

43:15

of gender on this

43:18

particular creature.

43:20

I didn't think you did. Did

43:22

they give you the impression that it was just a flesh

43:24

and blood creature that was out there making a living

43:27

the best way it knew how or did it seem

43:29

to be a demonic entity from the gates

43:31

of hell?

43:33

I would have to say natural creature.

43:35

I've had encounters with

43:37

other things that felt more spiritual

43:40

in their nature. This definitely

43:43

just felt like one

43:45

of those many

43:47

mysteries of Alaska. One of those

43:49

creatures that has been around for way longer

43:52

than I can comprehend and may have been misinterpreted

43:54

by cultures through time.

43:56

But it seemed like a flesh and blood creature

43:58

that was hunting.

43:59

because it needed to. That

44:02

could very easily be what was going on there. Your

44:05

friends seemed to come around at least a little bit

44:07

when they saw the claw marks in the log. Did

44:10

they ever totally come around though and definitely

44:12

believe you? My friend Ed

44:14

did. Eventually later,

44:17

he had a, uh,

44:19

what he described as he smelled it in

44:22

the mountains and it reminded him of my

44:24

story and he hightailed it out of there quick. And

44:27

he said he never saw it, but after he saw the

44:29

claw marks and my description

44:32

of the smell and he'd smelled it,

44:33

he said he's a believer. But

44:37

I don't know if Ed ever went back and looked

44:39

or tried to find more evidence, but

44:42

a lot of my friends, they kind of

44:45

were all very much of that.

44:47

There's more to life than we fully understand.

44:51

And they know that I am a man of science

44:53

and a man of credibility. And

44:56

I wouldn't just make something up baselessly,

44:59

nor would I just drop my weights off in the

45:02

woods for several days for a gag.

45:05

So I think they kind of understood

45:08

the severity of what I was feeling and

45:10

were willing to go along with that if they didn't

45:13

end up fully believing themselves. But

45:16

something ate that deer and they can't deny that.

45:18

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45:20

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46:54

You were in a relationship with a native woman

46:56

at the time of that encounter. Was

46:58

she much help when it came to you dealing with

47:00

it? Um...

47:04

Not really.

47:06

Well,

47:06

that's not good.

47:08

So when you told her about it, did she rebuff

47:10

you and refuse to believe that you're telling the

47:12

truth, or did she believe you but

47:14

just didn't help you much?

47:17

I mean, it was more of believed me but

47:19

just didn't really help much.

47:21

Didn't have much to go off

47:23

of as far as like what legends it could have

47:25

been.

47:26

And so I'd read through like

47:28

a number of the different

47:31

books of folklore and stuff, and I actually

47:33

still have a copy of

47:36

one of those books.

47:38

It's called Spirit of the Raven. It's a collection

47:40

of short stories. And

47:42

in it, it talks about a

47:45

dog spirit who protects the

47:47

wilderness and protects

47:50

ancient hidden burial sites,

47:53

which I think could be credible.

47:57

You know, the Native Americans have been

47:59

here for a

47:59

long time. here a lot longer and there's a lot of

48:02

legends that span through multiple native

48:04

cultures that are very close

48:06

to. Even on the eastern plains versus the western

48:08

plains, both societies have stories

48:11

of large birds that came

48:13

around and then thunderstorms followed.

48:16

They have stories of

48:18

different bipedal dog-like

48:20

creatures throughout the expanse of North

48:23

America. I've heard reports

48:26

in the center of Mexico. I've heard them all

48:28

the way up through Alaska and Canada.

48:31

The Alaska natives, a lot of their

48:34

stories of bipedal

48:36

hairy creatures are more

48:39

in line with the ottermen

48:41

that live in the waterways and can

48:43

mirror people's cries and

48:46

calls for help from loved ones.

48:49

She had tried to

48:51

tell me that it may be something like

48:53

that

48:55

The descriptor just never really felt right. For me,

48:58

it was very much asking

49:00

her for information

49:03

is going to be a bit of a dead end.

49:06

I turned to more sources

49:08

on the internet, books of legend,

49:11

books of folklore.

49:12

My older brother was very into

49:15

studying history and legends and

49:17

the spirits behind those sorts of legends.

49:20

I'd go to my brother for assistance.

49:22

It

49:26

sounds like she did what she could to help, but unfortunately

49:29

just couldn't render much help.

49:31

Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to

49:33

falter for it.

49:35

Oh no, no, she did what she could. It's going

49:38

to be hard to quantify it, but how strongly

49:40

exactly were you affected by that experience?

49:44

Before a time,

49:46

I was definitely very unnerved.

49:49

I didn't want to go camping alone. A

49:51

lot of my runs

49:54

turned into much more

49:56

open and civilized areas, instead

49:59

of running by the glacier.

49:59

I started going out to Auk Bay

50:02

and

50:02

I would park

50:04

and run along the roadside and

50:06

watch the sunrise over the

50:09

ocean and

50:10

just being much more populated,

50:13

manned spaces. I

50:15

did still go out to the glacier sometimes,

50:17

but not so much out to that path

50:19

as much.

50:21

I would go to the other sides of the glacier

50:24

and I'd usually go with groups of people

50:26

and stick to the more touristy

50:29

areas where there's a

50:31

pretty well beaten path that leads out to

50:33

this waterfall.

50:34

I'd go out there and I'd draw for a while,

50:37

but

50:38

I avoided the deep woods

50:41

a lot more than I had previously.

50:44

For a while, I was skeptical of what

50:46

I had seen and I thought maybe I was going crazy.

50:48

Then

50:49

I'd found it

50:51

was a blog post of this

50:53

guy who was talking about a very similar encounter

50:55

with a similar creature who smelled very similarly

50:58

in

51:00

Yellowstone in Montana. It

51:02

was when I found

51:04

that that I was like, well,

51:06

duh, why haven't I been checking the

51:08

internet?

51:11

I'd started doing a lot more research online

51:13

and I found reports

51:16

of

51:17

clean dogmen that don't smell

51:19

nearly as fragrant like

51:21

in the Eastern United States and

51:23

Kansas, Kentucky, weaving

51:25

through the corn fields.

51:27

I'd found people talking

51:30

about, is it the dogmen? Is it the Chupacabra

51:33

in sightings in the mountains

51:35

of Northern Mexico?

51:37

There was a lot of sightings in the

51:39

Rocky Mountains and in the national forests

51:42

within the stretch of the Rockies of

51:45

Idaho and into Montana.

51:47

I

51:48

haven't really heard too much of dogmen

51:50

out of California. I thought maybe

51:52

the redwoods would be a good place for these, but

51:55

not so much. Maybe the trees are too tall.

51:57

Maybe it's too... comment

52:00

a visual attraction.

52:02

Maybe they're out there and I just

52:04

haven't found the right video

52:06

or article on it.

52:08

I haven't seen too much in that

52:10

region. I haven't heard too much

52:12

in the main desert-y places

52:15

like New Mexico or western

52:18

Texas.

52:19

It seems to be

52:21

where a lot of these sightings are is mountainous

52:23

regions to the northern hemisphere of

52:26

the North Americas

52:27

and following the mountain ranges

52:29

down on the east coast

52:32

into more of a farmland

52:34

type.

52:35

I think you'd probably have a better map of sightings

52:38

than what I've put together.

52:40

I used to have a board with

52:42

the United States map on it and I'd

52:44

put pins in all to the

52:46

different sighting locations and I'd use

52:49

different colored pins for different

52:51

descriptions and characteristics of like

52:54

whether it was the smelly disheveled

52:56

dog or whether it was a clean one.

52:59

If you've seen the always sunny

53:01

in Philadelphia, the Pepe Silvio

53:03

with all of the in the mail room,

53:06

I was starting to feel like that and so I took it down.

53:11

Yeah,

53:11

I can understand why you would take it down.

53:14

But at least you got back on the horse. It might have

53:16

taken you a while to head back into the deeper forest

53:19

but eventually you did do that

53:21

so that's a good thing. As long as you can

53:23

say that you're making progress like that then that's

53:26

definitely a good thing. Yeah,

53:28

I mean it's been 10 years since I've seen

53:31

it and I haven't seen

53:33

or smelled anything like it since and

53:36

it was an 18 years before this encounter

53:38

so by that math I still

53:40

got another eight years of playing in the woods

53:43

before I find another one. I

53:45

hope it just never happens. If

53:47

you'd like to be able to listen to the show without ads and

53:50

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that's an option. To find out how,

53:55

please go to dogmanencounters.com

53:57

forward slash podcast.

54:01

You're not just a dogman eyewitness, Caden.

54:03

You've seen other cryptids, too. Please

54:05

expand on that for us. Yeah,

54:08

I've seen a couple other types

54:10

of cryptids. Multiple

54:13

sightings of like the same kind, which

54:16

would be this tall, pale,

54:19

bipedal creature, long arms,

54:22

thinish, small profile of a head

54:24

comparative

54:25

to the rest of its body. Fast.

54:28

Very fast. Much more aggressive

54:31

towards humans. Much more actively

54:34

pursuant of humans. I'd

54:37

seen that creature twice, and both of

54:39

times were in Idaho. Actually,

54:42

after I'd mentioned so, I went

54:44

back to the spillway,

54:46

where I'd seen my most recent encounter

54:48

and realized how much closer

54:50

the

54:51

spillway was to where

54:53

I saw the other ones years

54:56

ago. So

54:57

it's kind of in the same region, north

54:59

of Ashton, a little bit east.

55:02

And the first one, I was

55:05

very young. You

55:06

want me to jump into the story

55:08

or? I'll tell you what. Go

55:11

ahead and hang on to those stories because you

55:13

said that you'd be interested in coming on my pure

55:15

normal experience and sharing those

55:17

experiences, correct?

55:19

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I can talk

55:21

about those there and happy to share

55:24

my experiences.

55:25

Great. Well, yeah, I'd love to record that show with

55:27

you as well. When we

55:29

spoke about those two encounters you just mentioned

55:32

in Idaho for the first time, you told

55:34

me that you think they might have been skinwalkers.

55:37

Is that what you still think they were? Yeah.

55:40

Yep.

55:41

I thought that was the case.

55:43

What else have you run into? Um,

55:46

I was in the Colorado Mountains

55:49

at a friend's cabin when

55:51

we saw a

55:53

creature that looked like it

55:56

had a stag antlers on

55:59

a man.

55:59

like body and head.

56:02

It seemed bigger than like a normal man

56:05

and it

56:06

no discernible face features that we could

56:08

make out. In fact, it almost looked like a blank

56:10

shadowy sheet over this

56:13

thing's face. But

56:15

very, very clear detail

56:17

on the musculature on like the body, like

56:20

the upper body and the arms. It

56:22

was standing

56:23

kind of on a hill, but like where the

56:26

light of the hill was behind

56:28

it. And so we couldn't really see the legs too much,

56:32

but we could tell it was watching us.

56:33

It was watching us just stared for a while,

56:36

didn't move.

56:37

We didn't move. We just kind of stared back for a while. It

56:40

hung heavy in the air. I think

56:42

it wasn't happy that we were there,

56:45

but it wasn't like

56:46

attacking us or like trying to come

56:48

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58:21

The cabin we were in was like an old wood cabin

58:23

that didn't have any windows and so we locked

58:26

it up pretty tight that night and

58:28

I don't know whether it was paranoia, wind or something

58:30

else, but we kept

58:32

the remainder of the couple of days that we were out at that

58:34

camp, we kept hearing like scratching at the walls,

58:37

like something checking our perimeter

58:39

and yeah, after like

58:42

two, three nights of that, we,

58:44

cause we both woke up one night and we're like, we're

58:46

looking at each other, we're hearing the scratching again and

58:49

we're like, nah, we're not doing this again.

58:51

We locked eyes and we both knew we were leaving in

58:53

the morning.

58:55

And so we, we woke up early

58:57

the next morning, packed our bags

58:59

and just left.

59:01

Don't blame me for leaving. You mentioned

59:04

the separate body. Does that mean it was standing

59:06

by pedaling? Yeah.

59:08

Yeah. It was in the distance.

59:10

Like we couldn't see the lower half of the body, but we

59:13

could see like about where like

59:15

the up or mid riff of your stomach and like

59:17

the chest and like where the shoulders would hang. And

59:19

so

59:20

it looked like a tall

59:23

bipedal nude form, blank

59:26

face, antlers.

59:29

Antlers, blank face, standing

59:31

bipedally. Does

59:32

that mean you think that that might've been a Wendigo?

59:36

Maybe.

59:37

I never had a name for that one.

59:39

So I hope that's not what it

59:42

was, but if that is what

59:44

it was, then yeah, that's not good. Yeah.

59:47

You know what? That, that looks

59:49

kind of similar to what we saw. The wide

59:51

shoulders, musculature arms.

59:55

The face was shrouded in

59:57

darkness because it was staring like directly.

1:00:00

out where we would have been. Yeah,

1:00:02

I'll have to do some more

1:00:05

research on the wind to go. CBE

1:00:07

From the way you describe it, it sounds to me like that

1:00:09

just might be what it was. I

1:00:11

hope that's not the case, but... ALICE

1:00:14

Yeah, looking at these pictures, I'm hoping

1:00:16

that's not what it was too. CBE

1:00:18

I'll bet. You've already agreed

1:00:21

to come on my paranormal experience and

1:00:23

talk about that wind to go encounter and the

1:00:25

two encounters you had with those skinwalkers, so

1:00:28

we're all set for that. For the people

1:00:30

listening who want to listen to that episode, I'm

1:00:32

going to post a link for it in the description for

1:00:34

tonight's episode of Dogmeon Encounters

1:00:36

here, that way it'll be really easy to find

1:00:38

and listen to.

1:00:40

But having said that, it's about time for us to get

1:00:43

out of here, but before we do, do you have any

1:00:45

closing comments you'd like to share? ALICE

1:00:47

I

1:00:49

would say,

1:00:51

like I mentioned at the beginning,

1:00:53

to anyone who's had an encounter

1:00:56

or thinks they may have had an encounter and

1:00:58

they're looking for information, I

1:01:00

would have strongly urged you to not go

1:01:03

into the woods and looking for these things.

1:01:05

I think they very much want to be left to

1:01:07

their own devices and they are not interfering

1:01:10

with humanity on a grand scale. I

1:01:13

think any sort of interactions that

1:01:15

they do have with people are people who are

1:01:18

overexposed in dangerous places, people

1:01:20

who are ill-equipped to go looking

1:01:22

for these things who do, and

1:01:25

people who may have information that these

1:01:28

creatures don't want to get out. We don't know how

1:01:30

smart they are, but we know that they're smart enough to

1:01:32

hide their tracks.

1:01:34

We know that they're, at least genetically,

1:01:37

keyed in in such a way to be

1:01:39

discreet with their movements, be discreet with their sound.

1:01:42

This is a creature that doesn't necessarily

1:01:44

want to be found by us.

1:01:46

So I express the strongest

1:01:49

caution for anyone who does feel the need to go

1:01:51

out to search, but I would say my

1:01:53

advice is to not go look. CADE Well

1:01:56

that's really good advice. ALICE Kaidan,

1:01:58

I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing the details

1:02:01

of that experience with us. I really appreciate

1:02:04

it.

1:02:05

Yeah, my pleasure. I appreciate you having me on

1:02:07

your show. Well,

1:02:08

you know you're welcome. Thanks again

1:02:10

so much and have a great night.