0:00

Hey, it's Francis Lam, host of

0:02

The Splendid Table. And you know, I just want to tell you

0:04

that our show is a great place to come to for

0:06

some holiday sanity. We're getting cooking

0:08

help from amazing people this holiday season, including

0:10

chefs Kristin Kish, Eryth Grapeir,

0:13

Abra Barons, and cookbook authors

0:15

Jocelyn Jelk-Adams, Dan Pelosi,

0:18

and Amy Phelan. We have cooking, eating,

0:20

and gifting ideas for anyone you're going to have

0:22

at your table. So listen to The Splendid Table

0:25

wherever you get your podcasts. Talk to

0:27

you soon.

0:30

Hi, listeners. I got this note

0:32

from Tammy that I'd like to share. Tammy

0:34

writes, Hi Tig, I'm a high school

0:37

Spanish teacher, and I'm always telling

0:39

students to make mistakes with confidence

0:41

so they can learn to their fullest. Today

0:44

I was listening to your podcast with Ira

0:46

Glass and loved what you said about mistakes

0:49

so much that I made it into a poster

0:51

to put in my classroom. Thanks

0:53

for helping me to inspire my students.

0:56

So apparently I said, even

1:00

if you don't know anything, your passion

1:02

to learn is not going to be mistaken

1:05

for stupidity.

1:06

Well, Tammy, I'm

1:09

glad that stuck out to you because

1:12

I have no recollection

1:14

of saying that,

1:15

but I'm thrilled to hear that it's now

1:17

a poster. I have to agree

1:19

with you. It's a pretty good quote. Good ear.

1:22

I'll share this on social media and

1:24

everybody can enjoy Tammy's poster.

1:27

Hope everyone is having a wonderful

1:30

holiday. And speaking

1:32

of holidays, if you're in search of a

1:34

gift, treat yourself or your

1:36

loved ones to tickets

1:39

to my show.

1:40

I'm going on tour, a

1:42

national tour. I'll

1:44

be in Pittsburgh, Cleveland,

1:46

Detroit, Columbus, Boston,

1:49

DC, Philadelphia,

1:52

Portland, Oregon, San

1:54

Francisco, New Orleans,

1:56

Chicago, Madison,

1:59

New York City.

1:59

and Ithaca, among

2:02

many other cities. Go to TigNotaro.com

2:06

and I will see you out on the road. And

2:08

now, on with the

2:09

show. The

2:12

thing I can't get over in your latest special

2:15

is how many times your life was in danger

2:19

and you were on stage. Oh,

2:20

and you think it ended there at the end of that

2:22

special? I know. I'm embarrassed to tell

2:24

more stories. We are not alone and nobody is

2:27

hopeless. Everybody knows.

2:32

You have

2:38

an entity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is

2:40

Don't Ask

2:41

Tig. I'm Tig Notaro. Forever

2:44

Leary.

2:49

Joining me today is a very funny stand-up comedian

2:51

who has been telling jokes on stage for

2:55

over 20 years. He's a regular on Late Night. He even

2:57

had a cameo in the movie Joker as

3:02

a stand-up comedian. His most recent stand-up

3:05

special is The Great Depression, and you can find

3:08

it on HBO. Gary

3:11

Gullman, it is a pleasure

3:13

to have you on the show. Yes, it's a pleasure to be on and also to see you.

3:15

I think the last time we saw each other was in a Just

3:17

for Laughs performance in

3:20

Toronto.

3:20

Yeah,

3:22

like backstage. When was that? Like 10 years ago? Between

3:26

seven and 10 years ago, I bet.

3:29

Yeah, so let's say eight and a half. Yes.

3:32

So, you're a stand-up comedian. Yes, I am. And

3:34

you're a stand-up comedian. Yes, I am.

3:37

So, your latest special, The Great Depression,

3:39

focused on depression and how it affected

3:42

your life. What is the relationship between comedy and depression?

3:47

That's interesting because

3:49

I love to discuss

3:50

that with other thoughtful comedians. So, I

3:53

guess I will... I hate to do this, answer

3:55

a question, but I will answer a question. I'm

3:58

going to start with a question. with a question.

4:01

Do you think that we are more likely

4:03

to have mental illness or

4:06

anxiety or depression? Or do you think

4:08

that we are just more likely to be open

4:10

and talk about it? Yes.

4:11

Everybody loves

4:13

to make it like comedians are

4:16

miserable. They're depressed. They're crazy.

4:19

They're dark. They're all of these things

4:22

and then they'll take it to its artists.

4:24

Artists are tortured

4:27

people and musicians. They're this

4:30

and it's like no, they're the ones expressing

4:32

themselves publicly. Thank you.

4:35

And I think it's so unfair for

4:37

people to put that on comedians or

4:40

comedians to put that on themselves. And

4:42

I always say knock on your neighbor's door

4:44

and tell me if they're not dealing

4:46

with depression. They're not dealing with

4:48

anxiety. Your male carrier.

4:51

Yes. Depressed anxiety

4:54

all of the medications being prescribed.

4:56

It's not all the comedian. It's

4:59

insane. There's billions of people

5:02

on medication. Yes, and

5:04

there's not billions of comedians.

5:07

Yes, and I think it's harmful

5:09

because a lot of comedians I

5:12

know think well the reason I'm

5:14

funny the reason I have stories

5:16

is because I'm depressed I don't want to mess with it.

5:18

I don't want to change it. It's so foolish.

5:21

I can't stand it. There's so

5:23

much mythology around

5:25

the tortured artist and the suffering.

5:28

Yeah. I like to tell people if

5:30

you're suffering put aside your art. Let

5:33

your art suffer for you instead of

5:35

the other way around.

5:37

It's like people thinking that rock stars

5:39

die in plane crashes.

5:40

That's a great analogy.

5:43

If

5:43

you logged every dentist

5:46

that died in a plane crash, you would start

5:48

to be like, oh my god dentists always

5:51

die in plane crashes. Yes. Yes,

5:53

and it's just not true. It's the romanticized

5:56

like

5:56

I don't know why it's romanticized that rock

5:59

stars died in plane crashes.

5:59

crashes, but other people do

6:02

too. So many comedians talk about

6:04

being depressed. It's the cause of being

6:06

a comedian and it's just not true.

6:08

And I wish that people who

6:11

were depressed could get that kind of anti-depressant

6:14

of expressing yourself and getting

6:16

laughs and being on stage, because

6:19

I think that's the other thing that we're drawn

6:21

early on in life to that anti-depressant,

6:24

which is getting a laugh or laughing with people.

6:26

And we just take it and make

6:28

it a profession.

6:29

Oh, for sure. Yeah. So what

6:32

about through COVID and

6:34

the pandemic? Cause obviously that's

6:36

affected a lot of people and their state

6:38

of mind. And

6:39

how have you been doing and do you

6:42

have advice for people that are struggling?

6:44

Yes. I recognized, thank

6:46

goodness, right away that

6:49

this was a huge potential

6:52

pitfall for me. And so

6:54

I went back to my list of things

6:57

that I did to get out of my depression,

6:59

which involved exercise

7:02

initially moderate and then more intense.

7:05

Like there were long walks and just walking my dogs

7:07

and that was very helpful, but also

7:10

just reaching out to friends, even talking

7:12

to them on the phone and then

7:14

making sure that my medicine

7:17

had refills. And I spoke

7:19

with my doctor about potentially if

7:22

necessary and increasing dosages, cause

7:24

I had done that once when, when I lost

7:26

one of my dogs and that was very

7:29

helpful. And then I started doing phone

7:32

therapy on a weekly basis and I,

7:34

I had a purpose during the pandemic,

7:37

which was I have a book deal, so I've been

7:39

writing a memoir. So

7:41

at least I had something every day where I had to put

7:43

in some work and sometimes it was

7:45

just work and trying to

7:48

find everything else to do besides write.

7:51

The procrastination can really drive

7:53

me bonkers, but I

7:55

will say the trick to that was to set

7:58

my timer for 18 minutes

8:02

and I said just write for 18 minutes

8:04

and if you don't feel like writing anymore you can stop

8:07

and invariably I would continue and just keep

8:09

repeating the alarm. Why 18

8:12

minutes? I'm superstitious.

8:14

I found that 2018 was a really

8:17

lucky year for me and so

8:19

I keep using the number 18 but it's also

8:21

it's connected to Jewish numbers

8:24

and mysticism and I don't know

8:27

how many bar mitzvahs or bat mitzvahs you've

8:29

been to over the years but

8:31

people will a lot of times

8:32

give

8:33

monetary gifts in factors

8:36

of 18 so it would take us the rest of the

8:39

podcast to explain this

8:42

Meshuganah habit but

8:44

it's based on the superstitious bits of

8:46

Jews really.

8:47

Okay well I think that this

8:50

is worth going extra long to

8:52

hear all about.

8:56

Yes settle in

8:58

everyone. Let's

9:02

hear about the number 18. Now you've

9:05

been a college scholarship

9:07

football player.

9:08

Right I got a scholarship to play

9:10

football at Boston College

9:12

but the issue was

9:14

that I was only athletic. I didn't

9:17

really have that mindset of a dominating

9:20

killer instinct laden teenager

9:22

so I was just overmatched from the get-go

9:25

and I did not fit in with those guys

9:28

and it was something that I kept to myself

9:30

until the American

9:32

life people called me and asked me if

9:34

I had a story

9:37

and I said well I played college football and it

9:39

was a disaster and they liked

9:41

this story because I only played one year of

9:43

high school football and the

9:46

thing I learned from that and it overlaps

9:48

with the Great Depression was that this

9:50

thing that I had kept to myself because I was so embarrassed

9:52

by my failure

9:55

people were so interested in

9:57

and thought it was a very

9:59

telling story

10:01

and this thing I was so ashamed of

10:03

turned out to be something that people embraced.

10:06

And it was it was such a great lesson that unfortunately

10:09

I didn't learn until I was like 48 years old.

10:11

Isn't that insane how that happens?

10:14

Yeah. And then what about your days as an accountant?

10:16

Oh, I mean, you're all over the

10:18

place.

10:19

Yeah, that was basically I went to

10:21

college and the football thing didn't work.

10:24

And I

10:25

knew that there were some kids in my

10:27

school who were getting jobs right out of college and

10:29

they were accounting majors. So I

10:31

became an accounting major because I thought I'll

10:33

at least I'll have a

10:35

job. And for the

10:37

next three years, I tried to reconcile

10:40

how it was meaningful

10:43

to be an accountant. And then

10:45

as I finished my senior year of college,

10:47

I was like, this is just a you're

10:50

just counting things. And you

10:52

don't really love math, you love to

10:54

write and you love to read and you love

10:56

comedy. So I started to

10:58

do that. But the response from my family, of course,

11:01

was,

11:02

you'll never make a living at it. And when I first

11:04

wanted to do comedy, my mother said, well, start

11:06

by making us laugh, you don't make us laugh.

11:10

And, and I wanted to go back

11:12

in time and say I have evidence

11:14

of making you laugh. I remember things that I

11:16

said over the years that you laughed

11:19

at. So you're just being gratuitously

11:21

cruel. Yeah. And trying to suppress

11:24

this. And there are still moments

11:26

where I want to in front of everybody tell

11:29

that story and call her out like I and why

11:31

don't you because I heard

11:33

Bruce Springsteen saying

11:36

that his mother and father

11:38

wanted him to be either a lawyer or

11:40

a writer. And he said

11:43

it at a concert and they were there.

11:45

And I thought that could make my mother

11:47

really uncomfortable. And it might backfire

11:49

because the thing about my mother

11:52

is that as as mean as she

11:54

can be, she's incredibly charismatic

11:57

and charming. So people

11:59

will always. take her side.

12:01

My stepfather was interviewed for this documentary

12:04

that they did about me on Netflix and

12:06

actually I don't know if this ended up in

12:08

the documentary or if it's

12:10

just a moment I remember but it's the

12:13

funniest thing in the world. They're

12:16

interviewing him and

12:18

asking him about me as a child and

12:21

being funny as a kid and he was like

12:24

I don't remember

12:26

her

12:27

being funny.

12:29

And

12:31

meanwhile I was the class clown.

12:33

I was like making everybody laugh. That's

12:37

how disconnected we were and

12:39

to be fair there are plenty of people that see me

12:41

now and still don't recognize anything

12:43

I'm doing. It's being funny so

12:46

I don't take any offense to that but

12:48

yeah it's funny when you have to go back and

12:50

try and prove or like remember I

12:52

would do this and make funny faces.

12:55

Yeah

12:55

it makes me admire the comedians

12:58

you see who you know that their

13:00

parents could never have really

13:02

understood their comedy because it was too

13:05

avant-garde like it like Andy Kaufman

13:08

type of comedians where

13:10

it would be understandable that most of the audience

13:12

is not getting them in the family just doesn't understand

13:15

what they're doing and they and they still persevere.

13:18

You know it would be the most incredible

13:20

documentary to see is all of the

13:24

avant-garde comedians that didn't

13:26

make it that nobody ever understood.

13:29

I mean, hibbly. Yeah.

13:32

So your mother's voice

13:34

you've said is always in your head and

13:37

it sounds like she can be you know

13:40

kind of difficult in ways

13:42

or you called her mean I'm not gonna cut

13:44

that you know it's like you can call your mother anything

13:46

you want. Right right right. You don't call

13:48

someone else's mother anything but

13:51

does she ever give good advice?

13:52

She always told me to go to

13:55

things for an hour and if you're not

13:57

having a good time you can come home and I

14:00

really think it doesn't have to be an hour, but that's the

14:02

arbitrary time she chose, but go

14:04

for an hour. And I look back on

14:07

so many things in my life where I say, it

14:09

was really a good idea to go for an hour because

14:11

I wound up having a good time and I wasn't going

14:13

to go at all. So, and then there

14:16

are sometimes I only stay for the hour and I'm

14:18

proud of myself for getting out. But I really

14:20

felt that without that sort of advice,

14:23

I think I would have isolated even more, especially

14:25

when I was depressed. I always tell people

14:27

that's a really important thing when you're depressed,

14:29

you're tending towards staying

14:32

inside and it's really helpful

14:34

just for 10 minutes or five minutes

14:36

to get out. And even if you see people you

14:39

don't know, I find those little interactions

14:41

at the coffee shop, they lighten

14:43

me, I really believe that.

14:45

Well, yeah, it kind of goes back to what

14:47

you're saying about writing, you just write

14:50

for 18 minutes, just go out for an hour.

14:52

You have to show up for things. Totally.

14:55

And more times than not, you end up getting

14:57

something out of it. So

14:59

listen, Gary, we haven't

15:02

even started to give advice. Are you good at giving

15:04

advice? I

15:05

think I'm pretty good. I'm practiced at

15:07

giving advice because I don't

15:09

know if this happened with you after

15:11

you're opening up about yourself and getting

15:14

through things that a lot of people reach out

15:16

to me. I'm pretty thoughtful about the advice.

15:18

And a lot of times the

15:21

advice can just be that

15:23

you should

15:25

stop doing that.

15:26

Or ask

15:29

somebody else. First

15:35

up, we have a listener who

15:37

followed in your footsteps and is currently

15:39

a college athlete. Oh, wow. Elliot

15:42

writes, I'm a successful college

15:45

athlete at a small university in Oregon,

15:47

but my grades are horrible. There's

15:49

so many variables pulling me in all directions.

15:52

I can't decide on the best option for me.

15:54

COVID canceled my senior season, so

15:57

I could either stay a fifth year and

15:59

pray to the God. I can get enough good

16:01

grades to play and graduate a year from

16:03

now or I just finished school

16:05

this spring and leave my team behind and

16:08

pray to the gods that I graduate or

16:10

I quit all this crazy online

16:12

COVID volleyball charade and Drop

16:15

out for a while until my mind is

16:17

right enough to finish later Although

16:20

no one around me thinks I would actually come

16:22

back to finish All options

16:24

seem equally hard and annoying to me

16:27

all for their own reasons

16:29

Gary

16:30

Six Elliott Wow, I

16:32

went through the same thing it was my freshman year

16:35

of college and I didn't

16:37

have the great issue, but I might as well

16:39

have because I was concerned

16:41

about dropping out because I didn't

16:43

want to play football anymore and I

16:47

never thought to myself. What do I want to

16:49

do? Mm-hmm. I only thought what

16:51

should I do? So I would I think

16:54

I would should ask himself that what would make

16:56

him happiest the idea That

16:59

you'll never go back Went

17:01

through my head a lot. I thought if I

17:03

drop out now I will never go

17:06

back but I had the same

17:08

thought when I stopped doing comedy for

17:10

a few months to address my

17:13

depression and my suicidal ideation

17:16

and I fixed my

17:18

brain and went back

17:21

and thrived and I wonder

17:23

if Elliott can get

17:25

his head together outside of school

17:28

better But the good thing about going to school

17:30

is that a lot of times they have a good therapy Department

17:34

and you can work through things through that

17:36

so I think that might be helpful to have

17:38

a professional's opinion on

17:41

this but to Dismiss the idea

17:43

of stopping for a while because you're afraid you'll

17:45

never come back I think it's sort of betting

17:48

against yourself and not believing in yourself And

17:50

I also want to say that I understand

17:52

how difficult it is to Get

17:56

even average grades while playing

17:58

a sport in college

17:59

The time commitment is enormous

18:02

and there are kids who only have to worry about

18:04

school and they're having

18:06

a hard time getting good grades. So it's doubly

18:09

triply hard to do that while

18:11

playing a sport. It's like having a full-time

18:14

job that also makes you exhausted. And

18:17

a lot of times there's also the confidence

18:19

issue with sports where you feel

18:22

down after a game or a practice

18:24

and maybe you're not thriving in that

18:26

area. I know the two work against

18:28

each other.

18:29

I don't know whether that answers Elliot's

18:32

question or what do you think?

18:34

I mean, I think you're essentially just saying

18:36

like it's okay to take time off, right?

18:39

And I also think that there's something to... If

18:42

you really think about

18:44

it or you sit with yourself,

18:47

you know the answer. Yeah. And

18:50

trusting that is kind of key. And

18:52

I feel like Elliot

18:55

knows he maybe should

18:57

step away or it's okay.

19:00

I didn't have extremely wise

19:02

parents. I had kind parents but

19:05

I don't think they have that professional training

19:08

to really guide a teenager

19:10

or however old Elliot is. I

19:13

think if he hasn't already, it might be helpful

19:15

to consult a therapist on campus

19:17

or a wise professor or an advisor.

19:20

I know that I originally got sent to

19:22

therapy when I was in college by

19:24

the man who basically his

19:27

job was to help the athletes

19:30

stay eligible. But he did

19:32

so much more than that. I mean, he arranged

19:34

tutors and provided extra time

19:37

for certain people. So it was very

19:39

helpful. So maybe there's somebody involved with

19:41

the athletic program like that who could help

19:43

Elliot. There are older people who find

19:46

Elliot's in the world. Elliot is a

19:48

thoughtful athlete and want to

19:50

help them. I mean, I don't know him

19:53

but just the fact that he's a fan of yours

19:56

means that he's not a meathead athlete.

19:59

thoughtful person with some empathy

20:02

and kindness in them. So that is

20:04

my advice. The intersection of Meatheads

20:07

and Tignotaro fans is very narrow.

20:10

There's a few that would surprise you. Really?

20:13

That pop up out there. There's

20:16

a few. There's a few. We

20:18

can talk about that another time. Elliot, Gary

20:21

and I are rooting for you.

20:22

Whether you're playing volleyball or not.

20:25

We're behind you.

20:26

And just to clarify, the majority

20:28

of my fan base is tremendous. I'm

20:31

sure you love yours as well.

20:32

I really do. I'm so grateful for them.

20:34

Gary,

20:34

don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with

20:36

more questions after the break.

20:53

Hey, it's Francis Lam.

20:54

I wish I was on the table. You know, I

20:56

just want to tell you that our show is a great place to come

20:58

to for some holiday sanity. We're

21:01

getting cooking help from amazing people this holiday

21:03

season, including chef Kristin Kish, average

21:05

prepare, Abra Barron, and

21:07

cookbook authors, Jocelyn Jelk-Adams,

21:10

Dan Closie, and Amy Phelan. We

21:12

have cooking, eating, and gifting ideas

21:14

for anyone. You're going to have it at your table. But

21:16

listen to the Splendid Table wherever you get

21:18

your podcasts. Talk to you soon.

21:36

And we're back. Gary Gullman.

21:39

This next one is from a concerned

21:41

parent. Eliza writes, my

21:43

11-year-old daughter, who is a huge fan

21:45

of yours, Tig, has been making people

21:48

belly laugh since before she could speak.

21:51

She also struggles with ADHD, OCD, and

21:54

she hates school and experiences a lot

21:56

of anxiety around learning. My

21:58

questions for you are, are. What

22:01

was school and learning like for you? Do you

22:03

know other comedians who struggled in school,

22:05

maybe never quote unquote made

22:08

it in comedy, but still managed to find

22:10

fulfilling lives? School

22:13

was a living hell for me. I truly

22:16

failed three grades and then dropped

22:18

out of high school and I have

22:20

a seventh grade education.

22:23

That is the last year that I

22:25

graduated and I still found

22:29

my way. So I have hope for people

22:32

and I also see so many comedians

22:34

that do find happiness

22:37

and success, whether they become writers

22:40

or actors. I had a friend that was like

22:42

actually doing pretty well in comedy

22:44

and he was like, I want to be married

22:47

with kids and live in the suburbs and

22:49

just have a job. Wow. And

22:51

so it's like so hard to predict

22:54

what people are going to want, where they're going to

22:56

go. You know what I mean? Yes. I

22:59

just think that being supportive

23:02

and encouraging, of course, always

23:04

is the best answer and to be present

23:06

and available. But do you

23:08

have any particular thoughts or

23:10

feelings about that? Yeah,

23:12

I mean, one of the things that I would use

23:14

to predict the daughter's success

23:17

is that she clearly has a mother who

23:19

cares about her and knows who

23:22

her favorite comedian is and knows

23:24

what she's dealing with in school. I

23:26

mean, it's interesting because I'm writing this

23:28

memoir that's called K through 12 and it's

23:30

all about my experience

23:33

in grade school and high school

23:35

and it was torture. Really,

23:37

I had so much anxiety going to school and I didn't

23:39

have ADHD. So that makes it

23:42

even worse, but I was very anxious

23:44

and depressed, but I didn't have a mother who

23:46

was aware or understood what was going

23:49

on and I had a father. My father

23:51

didn't live with us, so it was very

23:53

challenging. But I will say

23:56

that the daughter's humor and

23:58

also again,

24:00

these questions are sort of self-selecting

24:02

because these are people who get Tignotaro.

24:05

Your daughter is obviously a pretty intelligent 11

24:08

year old to understand because these are adult

24:11

comedy shows that are predicated on knowing

24:13

some things about life and the world and having

24:15

some wisdom. I would predict that your

24:18

daughter will be fine and

24:20

there's never been a better time to have ADHD

24:23

and there are treatments and strategies

24:26

and our friend Todd Glass had dyslexia

24:29

and he is very successful

24:32

as a comedian and very happy as a human and

24:35

so I don't know that she necessarily

24:37

has to become a comedian but there are so

24:39

many other areas in terms of expressing

24:42

yourself and making people laugh

24:44

that are open to

24:46

us as they never have been before.

24:49

Well

24:49

it's like what you're saying yeah with writing

24:51

a book. Yeah. I feel like 11 is

24:54

the prime age to write a joke book.

24:56

Yes. Yes or just keep a journal.

24:58

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean yeah

25:01

I don't know my son is five and

25:03

he's writing... he's

25:09

writing jokes. He loves

25:11

jokes. Is he the oldest? They're

25:14

twins. Oh that's okay so that's

25:16

the last time I saw you. Yeah. They were infants.

25:19

Oh okay. Yeah. There you go. We found

25:21

out how long it's been. It's not at

25:23

all when we thought it was. Yeah but

25:26

he loves jokes. He loves jokes

25:28

and you tell me what you think about this joke.

25:30

Okay.

25:31

Where does an ant sleep?

25:34

I don't know. Well I immediately

25:37

said in an ant bed and he

25:39

said

25:40

what's an ant bed and

25:42

so did my wife. She said what's an ant bed.

25:45

I was like it's a little hill that the ants

25:47

live in. Yeah. That's the answer. No my

25:49

son was like no it's

25:51

a on a napkin.

25:53

Oh oh

25:54

I like

25:55

that. He's five. I like that.

25:58

He's five but right but the answer should be in an

26:01

ant bed.

26:02

No, it should be and I'm picturing an ant bed

26:04

and it's adorable.

26:06

Yeah, but you know what an ant bed is,

26:08

right? The little hill? Yeah, the ant hill. Yeah,

26:10

yeah, but it's uh...

26:12

It's called an ant bed.

26:13

Right, but maybe he knows it as an ant hill

26:15

so that's what confused him.

26:17

That's probably what it was. Eliza,

26:19

you clearly care deeply about

26:21

your daughter and she's lucky to have you as a parent.

26:23

Yes. We're

26:26

gonna take a quick break to answer a question

26:28

that came in our therapy etiquette

26:31

inbox. This segment is where we

26:33

answer those awkward questions we all

26:35

have as people getting the professional

26:37

help we need and deserve and is sponsored

26:39

by BetterHelp Online Therapy.

26:42

From Anonymous, Hi Tig, my

26:44

partner of about nine months is super

26:47

rad but we don't have the greatest communication.

26:50

I mentioned a few weeks back that I wanted

26:52

to meet his family. He has met mine

26:54

and he said he understood but he

26:57

hadn't seen them so it wasn't

26:59

as if he was keeping me from them. Well,

27:02

yesterday he saw them and

27:05

I wasn't invited. When I try to

27:07

break up with him citing our poor communication

27:09

he insists he wants to work it out and

27:11

he wants to be with me and he can do better

27:14

but it's not getting better. I love this

27:16

guy so much but sometimes he makes me

27:18

facepalm straight down into my overpriced

27:21

tacos. I suggested we

27:23

go talk to a counselor to help build

27:25

better communication skills and he said

27:27

he'd think about it but that it didn't

27:30

sound like something he'd enjoy very much

27:32

and he hasn't brought it back up to me. Everything

27:35

is further complicated because I'm a single

27:37

mom to a young kid and I'm not getting

27:39

any younger and I just feel like time's

27:42

a waste in. At my last gyno

27:44

appointment the nurse alluded to my age

27:46

and menopause and I found it all quite morbid

27:49

and chilling. For context I'm 34.

27:51

For goodness sake

27:54

what should I do? Thanks Tig. Love

27:56

you. Dear Anonymous,

27:59

it's so It sounds like you're running into

28:01

a wall with this guy, and

28:04

that you've been pretty clear about all

28:06

the things that really matter

28:08

to you without any

28:10

sort of real changes in behavior.

28:13

And it seems like you want

28:16

to break up, but can't. Am

28:18

I right? Here's an honest

28:20

question. Is this about getting everyone

28:23

to counseling with consent or figuring

28:26

out if it's time to split up? If

28:28

this is about getting to counseling,

28:31

maybe ask, hey,

28:34

it's important that we find a counselor and

28:36

that you really are on board and

28:38

want to go, too. Can you find a couple

28:41

of names of people you'd be interested in meeting

28:43

as we find someone? You know,

28:45

make it a concrete plan, one

28:48

that's

28:48

actionable.

28:49

And it also doubles as a litmus

28:52

test. Are you going to take

28:54

the time to work on us, or have you decided

28:56

that you won't? I just wanted to

28:59

paraphrase something you said yourself.

29:02

None of us are getting any younger. One way

29:04

I interpret that for you is that

29:06

you deserve to be in a relationship where you feel

29:09

heard and that you're making progress

29:11

on your challenges. Sometimes

29:14

that could happen through mutual work, and sometimes

29:16

that happens after we've decided

29:18

to move on. It's sad, I

29:21

know. Or it could be happy.

29:24

I don't know. I hope it's

29:26

been helpful to hear what

29:28

I'm saying, or at least somewhat

29:30

reassuring. Thanks to our sponsor

29:33

BetterHelp, now let's get back to our conversation

29:36

with the incredible Gary Gullman. Gary,

29:41

we have one last listener

29:44

question.

29:45

Okay. Okay. Laura

29:47

writes, I've

29:48

been lifelong friends with Wendy

29:51

and she and her husband are constantly asking

29:53

if their four-year-old can have a play date

29:55

with my three-year-old. This issue

29:58

is that their kid is a nightmare.

31:59

but I've been a kid

32:02

and I

32:04

just know that it's so interesting because

32:06

there were so many times where I would just go over to people's

32:08

house and there would be people there who were

32:10

like older kids, they were like sadistic

32:13

and I never even mentioned it

32:16

to my mother. I don't want to go over there

32:18

and I never say well it's because they take my

32:20

arm and they put it behind my back until it really hurts.

32:24

I think it's great that the parent is aware

32:26

of what's going on and the child is communicating

32:29

and that's so great but I think

32:32

that's really good advice to

32:34

talk to the parents because maybe

32:36

they are unaware and you're right. There

32:39

may be somebody in that child's life who

32:42

is teaching them that type of

32:44

behavior or is bullying them.

32:46

It could even be a sibling. Yeah.

32:48

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

32:50

So Laura, that's our advice.

32:53

And Gary, what

32:56

is the best advice you've ever received?

32:58

Wow.

32:59

I would say my therapist

33:02

in college,

33:04

I was in the midst of my first

33:07

adult relationship

33:09

with a woman and I said I

33:12

don't understand. I

33:15

was so foolish. I said I don't understand

33:17

women. How do you figure them

33:19

out? And he said one at

33:22

a time. One at a time. And

33:25

I thought that was in its brevity.

33:29

It was so efficient. He was saying

33:31

yeah, they're human beings. You're

33:35

not going to find a rule. Yeah,

33:37

there's not an answer. At 19 years

33:39

old, I was like there's got to be some

33:41

code to figuring out people.

33:44

And I just thought that prepared me for the search

33:46

for the most important thing really

33:48

in my life, which is an adult relationship and also

33:50

didn't make me susceptible to the type of

33:53

behavior that

33:53

I was in.

33:59

type of here's how you treat women kid. You

34:02

got to go out there and you got to be the

34:04

boss or else they don't.

34:06

Or you just got to let them gripe and gripe.

34:09

Just let them go.

34:10

Yeah. And it's just,

34:13

it was really good advice

34:15

that I treasure to this day. It was

34:17

the right, I mean the other thing about

34:19

great advice is it has to come at the right

34:22

time. If it happened when I

34:24

was 11 or if it happened when I was in my

34:26

30s, it would have been too early or too late. Yeah.

34:30

And what about the worst advice?

34:33

The worst advice. I

34:36

remember this manager

34:38

when I first came to New York. I

34:42

went on stage and I bombed.

34:44

I mean, it was one of those bombs

34:46

where you're walking

34:48

or maybe this doesn't happen to everybody,

34:50

but you are in kind of a days afterwards

34:54

and everything leading up to this moment is just

34:57

that

34:58

I finished so short with the amount of material

35:00

that usually lasted me 10 minutes that for

35:02

three minutes I had nothing to say until

35:05

the host came back from having a cigarette.

35:07

I had run out of jokes and nothing

35:10

that I had said already worked so I was going

35:12

into like the stuff that wasn't good enough to

35:14

not work. And anyhow, the

35:18

manager afterwards he said, you

35:21

should go back to Boston and hide

35:23

out for a couple of years and this

35:26

whole thing where you're anxious

35:28

and you're not comfortable

35:30

with yourself,

35:32

you should abandon that because nobody's buying

35:34

it.

35:34

And basically he was saying, hey, you

35:37

know that thing where you're you, you should

35:39

stop being you. Get

35:42

out now. Yeah. And go

35:44

back to Boston, figure it out.

35:47

And another comedian talked

35:49

me out of abandoning New

35:52

York City and I stayed

35:54

and everything worked out. But I remember that was

35:57

the worst advice. I mean, it

35:59

would have cost me everything.

35:59

everything to have taken that advice.

36:03

Wow, yeah, I've had many

36:07

pieces of advice along the way that

36:09

I could have taken the special

36:12

where I mentioned that

36:14

I had cancer and everything

36:16

and I had been told by two people

36:18

that I respected

36:21

and was so close to and they

36:23

were just looking out for me because

36:26

they were like, just you've been through a lot, don't

36:29

go on stage and talk about that, just

36:31

do something light and I think you'll

36:34

feel better and I was

36:36

like, I couldn't get it out of my head.

36:39

I was like, I can't talk about anything else. I'm

36:41

like, yeah, dying,

36:43

right? You know, yeah,

36:46

and I can't just be like, knock,

36:48

knock, right, right. You have

36:50

this opportunity to be

36:52

the ultimate authenticity

36:55

and yeah, that would have been terrible

36:57

advice. But

36:58

yeah, they truly were just,

37:02

they cared about me and that's what they thought

37:04

would be best and it goes

37:06

back to that idea of you know what

37:09

you're supposed to do a lot of times. But

37:13

Gary, now we're finally at the end of the show,

37:15

darn it. This has been so nice

37:17

talking to you. Yeah, it's

37:18

been a pleasure and I hope we get to connect

37:21

the next time I'm in LA or you're in New

37:23

York City or we cross paths.

37:26

Thank you for spending your

37:28

time with me today and do you have

37:30

anything that you want to let people know about?

37:32

I'm headlining at Carnegie

37:33

Hall as part of the New York Comedy Festival.

37:36

I don't know if this will air before then but

37:38

if it does, you can see

37:40

me there or you can say, hey,

37:42

that guy was at Carnegie Hall.

37:44

Congrats to you. I hope your

37:47

mother comes and that she gets it.

37:49

It's the first venue I've mentioned

37:52

that she had heard of so I'm very excited.

37:56

She never heard of side splitters in Tampa.

37:58

I was about to say so. side

38:00

slitters. That's hilarious. Yeah,

38:02

Nina, the owner of side slitters

38:05

is listening to this going, well, I'm sure they're not.

38:08

But if they were, they're like, no,

38:10

they're not. That's not

38:12

funny. What's so funny about side slitters?

38:15

Yeah, we split your sides here.

38:17

Yeah.

38:21

All right. It was great to see you. Thanks again.

38:23

Same here. Thanks

38:23

for including me in this. This is such a great show.

38:26

Of course. Thank you. Bye, Tig. Bye.

38:29

And don't forget to go to TigNotaro.com

38:32

to get your tickets to my national

38:35

tour, as well as some Canadian

38:38

dates. So see you there.

38:59

I wish that I could give you

39:02

the answer. I

39:04

wish that I could

39:04

make you believe.

39:08

I wish that I could put you in your

39:10

father's attitude.

39:28

Don't

39:30

Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.

39:34

It's produced by Thomas Ouellette, Shana

39:36

Deloria, and Ryan

39:38

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39:40

and editor is Beth Perlman. Engineering

39:43

and sound mixing by Johnny Vince

39:45

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39:47

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39:50

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39:52

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39:54

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39:56

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39:58

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40:01

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40:04

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40:06

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40:08

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40:10

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40:19

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40:29

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40:32

And as always, thanks Dana and

40:34

I'll tell Dada.

41:14

Hey,

41:16

it's Francis Lam, host of this London Table.

41:18

And you know, I just want to tell you that our show is a great

41:20

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41:23

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41:28

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