0:01

I'm about to

0:04

go insane. Sometimes

0:07

I need to go where everybody does code. I'm

0:14

about to go insane. Sometimes

0:20

I need to go

0:22

where everybody does code.

0:25

Sometimes I need to

0:28

go where everybody does

0:30

cocaine. And

0:34

we always find a vein.

0:38

I want to fix and do some

0:40

blow, but the troubles will go away.

0:44

I want to be where

0:46

everybody does cocaine. You

0:49

should you dope, I'll smoke some crack. Junkies

0:52

are all the same. I

0:55

want to be where everybody

0:58

does cocaine. Hey,

1:13

hey, hey, it's time for Jokey. And

1:18

I want to sing a song for you. Damn

1:23

Chris, I'm gonna show you a thing or two.

1:26

You'll have

1:28

some fun now with me and

1:30

all the gang. Learning

1:32

from each other while we do

1:35

our thing. Na,

1:37

na, na, gonna help me

1:39

die. Na, na,

1:41

na, gonna help me die.

1:44

Hey, hey, hey. This

2:06

episode of DOPY is brought to

2:08

you by our very good friends

2:10

at Oro Recovery, located in sunny

2:13

Southern California, created by

2:15

Bob Forrest and his friends Evan,

2:17

Jared, and Bob. Their

2:19

vision to create and maintain

2:21

the greatest treatment center that

2:24

is possible to create or

2:26

maintain. It exists in South

2:28

Florida. Their whole mission is

2:30

to treat drug addicts and

2:33

alcoholics by using compassion and

2:35

connection and not using

2:38

domination and control. It is a

2:40

beautiful dream. Their staff

2:42

has decades of experience in

2:45

treating co-occurring mental health disorders,

2:47

including severe mental illness. If

2:50

you're fucked and you're willing to go

2:52

to sunny Southern California to get better,

2:54

you need to go to Oro. The

2:58

amenities are just paradise-like.

3:00

Check them out at

3:02

ororecovery.com. You will

3:04

not be disappointed. Everyone that we

3:06

have known that has gone had

3:08

a great experience. Are you looking

3:10

for a way to show accountability

3:13

to your friends, family, employer,

3:15

whoever that you're not drinking? Well

3:18

if so, then check out SoberLink.

3:20

And this episode of Dopey is

3:22

also sponsored by our good friends

3:24

at SoberLink. SoberLink is the only

3:26

high-tech breathalyzer system that keeps you

3:29

honest, especially when cravings get a

3:31

little too loud. I

3:33

love that you test at the

3:35

same time every day, eliminating testing anxiety.

3:37

I love that the devices have

3:39

built-in facial recognition so it knows

3:42

it's you testing. I love the

3:44

tamper sensors that flag any attempts

3:46

at trying to beat the system.

3:48

And I mostly love that

3:50

friends and family receive instant test

3:53

results, helping to rebuild trust

3:55

and prevent relapse. Let 2024 be

3:57

the year you finally make the

3:59

change. visit www.soberlink.com/dopey

4:02

and get

4:04

50 bucks

4:06

off your first device. Also

4:10

are you looking for another

4:12

recovery podcast to you know

4:14

round out your recovery listening to? If

4:17

so you need to check out

4:19

Recovery in the Middle Ages our

4:22

friend Nat has a podcast all

4:24

about love, life and the pursuit

4:26

of recovery they discuss every topic

4:28

under the sun of interest to

4:31

anybody in the recovery community including

4:33

12 steps the

4:35

newest medical research and talk about

4:37

their daily struggle to maintain their

4:39

recovery and their anonymity in the

4:42

world of soccer moms and PTA

4:44

meetings. Find Recovery in

4:46

the Middle Ages anywhere you

4:48

get your podcasts or at

4:50

middleagesrecovery.com So

5:08

hello and welcome to another

5:10

episode of Dopey the

5:12

podcast on drugs addiction and dumb

5:14

shit my name is Dave and

5:17

never does a day go by that

5:20

I do not feel humbled and

5:23

grateful to make the

5:25

show and to be sober. So

5:27

let's all take a second and

5:29

cheer that

5:32

we get to make and listen to Dopey. I

5:35

am so excited to be

5:38

doing this stupid show and

5:40

I'm so excited at how many people

5:42

I get to hear from every week

5:45

that are so into the show

5:47

and like our show is

5:50

not particularly recovery centric but

5:52

there is no Dopey without

5:54

recovery. You can't spell Dopey

5:57

without recovery. I just need to say that.

6:00

So you can't spell Dopey without drugs, addiction,

6:02

and dumb shit either. But I'm grateful to

6:04

have my recovery. I went to a meeting

6:06

today. We read out of the 12 and

6:08

12. We read

6:10

the 12 step in the 12 and 12. And

6:15

I know for all of you naysayers

6:17

and whatever this fucking

6:19

chapter, step 12 in the 12 and 12,

6:21

it hit, it hits hard. I

6:24

think we're going to do a Dopey book club on the

6:26

12 and 12. Probably never

6:28

going to do it. But definitely a Dopey

6:31

meeting on step 12 in the 12

6:33

and 12. All

6:35

right. And that's all about like putting

6:38

first things first, spiritual

6:40

life, spiritual

6:42

progress, you know, on undoing

6:46

grandiosity and self-centeredness. That

6:49

step 12 reads

6:51

like, Dave, you're fucked up. You

6:53

need to get a grip. So I'm going to

6:55

become a much more spiritual person

6:57

and put my recovery in

7:00

front of everything. The show will be

7:02

the same, but I'm changing my

7:04

life. And it could be

7:06

because last week's guest was

7:09

among the more controversial, dare

7:11

I say hated guests.

7:15

And I'll go on record to say

7:17

that I loved our guests last week,

7:19

Jesse Schwancker, but we got more feedback

7:23

about Jesse than I think

7:25

I've ever gotten about anybody,

7:28

literally, literally anybody I'm going

7:30

to read. Uh, I'm going

7:33

to read a positive note. Hey, Dave,

7:35

this weekend's episode was so good.

7:37

While I've loved every episode, the

7:39

last few dopes, you've really stepped,

7:42

stepped it up a notch and

7:44

we're really, really great. I really

7:46

loved hearing Jesse, such a masculine

7:48

man being so vulnerable in telling

7:50

his story and how he spoke

7:53

of his beautiful girlfriend and the

7:55

LGBTQ community. It was inspiring to

7:57

me to hear how he overcame.

8:00

the trauma of being violated the way

8:02

he was because I truly don't know

8:04

if I'd be able to do the

8:06

same. Anyway, thank you so much

8:08

for the episode and all you do. Dopey

8:10

is one of the parts I

8:12

love most about being clean and sober. Thank

8:15

you. Isn't that such a nice

8:17

note? And that is from Tori Milner. So

8:20

thank you Tori. I'm gonna read

8:22

another note but not about Jesse. I think

8:24

I'm gonna do a whole Patreon

8:27

episode. I mean you wouldn't believe the

8:29

reddit stuff. I think we're gonna start

8:32

doing a patreon episode a week called

8:34

the reddit roundup because I love reading

8:36

reddit so much. We might do a

8:38

little reddit roundup at the end of

8:40

today's show actually. But I want

8:42

to read this. Alright here we go.

8:44

Hey Dave I'm a little backed up

8:47

on episodes due to the new Tuesday

8:49

shows which I am extremely grateful for

8:52

but you just gotta be careful what

8:54

you wish for because now I'm super

8:56

backed up. However right now

8:58

I'm listening to you talk about how

9:00

you are extremely insulted by being called

9:03

cringe. You fucking make me laugh

9:05

dude. Ha ha ha. Anyway out

9:07

here in the West I've never heard anybody

9:09

use the word cringe as a

9:11

noun. I don't know if that's

9:13

a noun when they call me cringe. I

9:16

think it's an adverb or something. It's more

9:18

of an adjective. Like sometimes when I have

9:20

my little PTSD moments of when I was

9:22

super fucked up on meth it

9:25

can get kind of cringy thinking

9:27

about how I acted and the type

9:29

of strung out human being I was.

9:32

Anyways I just wanted to say you make

9:34

me laugh dude. Thanks for the extra

9:36

Tuesday episodes. Fucking toodles for Chris.

9:39

And that is from Travis. So thank you

9:41

Travis. I don't think it's a noun though.

9:43

I think it's an adjective or

9:45

an adverb. Dopination if you

9:47

know whether when someone calls

9:49

me cringe what kind

9:51

of um what do you even

9:53

call that? Jesus Christ.

9:55

What kind of grammatical idiom is

9:58

cringe? than

10:00

that we have to celebrate we have

10:02

to celebrate Taylor I don't

10:05

know why she popped into my head Taylor

10:07

just popped into my head I

10:10

have no idea why oh no

10:12

I know why I was

10:14

texting on my computer right

10:16

I was texting on my computer and when

10:18

I use the text message feature on my

10:20

computer and I text somebody I

10:22

haven't texted in a while it shows me

10:25

an old text of the last time I

10:27

texted them and I saw a text from

10:29

Taylor that I didn't respond to

10:32

and then I wrote she wrote me hey Dave I'm doing well

10:34

today is 660 days boot still doing my AA program

10:38

and have a sponsor as well I feel

10:40

so lucky I

10:43

am always so grateful for you and the

10:45

show helping me get sober

10:48

and stay sober I hope you are feeling

10:50

happy joyous and free today I saw the

10:52

patreon post from tomorrow I hope everything is

10:54

going okay in the zoom meeting I'll attend

10:56

tomorrow and keep everyone in line just kidding

10:58

just kidding thank you always for

11:00

fostering a community based on

11:03

our code of love and tolerance sending love we

11:05

will have to catch up soon with

11:07

a phone call and then I wrote

11:10

awesome and I responded months later she

11:12

sent me that on January 30th and

11:14

then I responded and she

11:16

responded with this hey Dave

11:19

Taylor from Canada here so

11:22

so serendipitous or a godshot that

11:25

you messaged me today as

11:27

today's actually my two

11:29

years sober I was

11:33

actually gonna reach out to you today so it's

11:35

quite funny you know I guess

11:38

as we say is it odd

11:40

or is it taught I owe a lot of

11:42

this to you Dave how much

11:45

my life has changed and how

11:47

I've just been given this

11:49

gift of serenity and

11:51

being able to wake

11:53

up in the morning feeling healthy

11:55

and getting to make my own

11:57

choices every day you know not

12:00

Not every day is easy, obviously, because

12:02

life still happens, but I

12:04

get to do life and life isn't doing

12:06

me anymore I hope everything's

12:08

going well with you and your family and in

12:11

your dog and hope everything's going good with

12:13

the podcast It's been funny

12:16

and uplifting as always so I always appreciate

12:18

everything you do Dave and everything you've done

12:20

for me And you know everyone else in

12:22

this community will have to catch up soon.

12:25

And yeah, that's it. Bye for now Tootle

12:29

I wonder if Taylor's listening

12:32

at all. She said it's Uplifting

12:34

and funny as always but wouldn't

12:36

she have said something specific? Had

12:40

she actually been listening to the show that's

12:43

a question Dopey Nation Do you think Taylor's

12:45

listening or do you not think Taylor's listening?

12:48

I think we're doing too much recovery in the beginning of the show

12:50

I think we have to hit you with the dopey. So

12:53

let me hit you with the dopey But

12:55

before I play a dopey voicemail, I just

12:57

want to say That

12:59

this episode of dopey was made

13:01

possible by in part

13:03

and thanks to Chris Paulson and

13:06

the people out in the Pacific

13:08

Northwest at Discover Recovery They

13:11

have two locations for detox and

13:13

residential treatment in Washington State. It

13:15

is really the best treatment available

13:18

anywhere in the Pacific Northwest

13:20

a region that has historically

13:23

Definitely been underserved Considering

13:25

the drug addicts out

13:28

there. They have the best

13:30

medical staff on site in the region They're

13:32

there seven days a week Masters-level

13:35

therapists substance abuse

13:37

and use disorder counselors psychiatric

13:40

services much more than

13:43

anything around their accommodations are super

13:45

plush and luxurious and

13:47

to read a quote from

13:49

Chris Paulson my friend friend of dopey

13:51

and Runner of Discover

13:53

Recovery. He says I'm not great

13:55

at selling. We operate with integrity.

13:58

We care about the recovery of

14:01

those we serve and have a proven

14:03

track record. For more information check

14:05

them out at discoverrecovery.com and one

14:07

thing that Chris had said to

14:09

me was read the

14:11

reviews. Go to Yelp, read the

14:13

Discover Recovery Reviews and you'll know

14:15

what they're all about. Check them

14:18

out again at discoverrecovery.com. Alright

14:20

here is a dopey voicemail from

14:22

our friend in Massachusetts, Earl. Dave

14:25

this is Earl in Boston. I'm

14:29

making this four minutes

14:32

or less. I was found

14:34

out that I had relapsed on heroin out

14:36

in Western Mass back in 2014-15. Family swept

14:38

me up, so kind

14:44

of them, sent me off to rehab down

14:46

in Pennsylvania and then

14:49

off I went to the West Coast for

14:53

treatment at a place called

14:55

Northbound in Costa Mesa. After

14:58

Northbound I went to

15:00

a sober house also in

15:02

Costa Mesa kind of closer to Santa Ana

15:04

which is a shitty fucking city but

15:08

in no time at all I was working

15:10

full-time as a waiter. Again I was

15:15

starting to want to

15:17

get high. I was looking

15:19

around seeing people getting high using drugs I

15:22

had never tried like black tar heroin and

15:24

crystal meth. Being from Boston

15:26

I had never seen either of those and was

15:28

very intrigued. So

15:31

wouldn't you know it eventually I

15:33

relapsed and got kicked

15:35

out of my sober house, had

15:37

to keep it secret from my

15:39

family, moved into a rented bedroom

15:41

in Santa

15:44

Ana California, was

15:46

riding the bus to and from work every

15:48

day, shooting up black

15:51

tar heroin, meth, eating

15:54

edibles, doing all

15:56

sorts of stupid shit. So

15:59

the story really is after a

16:01

couple weeks or maybe a month

16:03

of this I was

16:06

already pretty strung out I had a pretty

16:08

bad habit going on and

16:11

I had one

16:14

drug dealer named Rick God bless Rick

16:16

Soul he

16:18

always had good dope

16:21

every day and I got

16:23

in pretty close with him we

16:26

were gonna go pick up one day I was pretty

16:28

sick and got in high in a

16:30

day or two and he gave me a zany

16:32

bar which is nice I ate half and

16:35

then 25 minutes later ate the

16:37

other half obviously it was feeling

16:39

pretty fuzzy and his plug

16:43

called and we were got the green

16:45

light to fly up to Bellflower California

16:47

kind of in the

16:50

LA suburbs I guess we

16:52

went up there I was kind of

16:54

nice on the zany and

16:56

I knew I shouldn't have shot up because it was dangerous

17:00

but against my better judgment I

17:02

did a small shot next thing I

17:04

know I'm being

17:06

revived EMT shining a

17:08

flashlight my I asked him

17:10

what day it is Rick was

17:13

right there fucking Rick

17:15

dude he called 911 and

17:18

they came and saved my life

17:20

in his fucking passenger seat of his car

17:22

he was my drug dealer he'd only known

17:24

me like a week or two but

17:27

he saved my life I went to

17:29

the emergency room woke

17:31

up in Bellflower I was like fuck where the

17:34

hell am I but I

17:36

felt my breast pocket and in

17:38

my cigarette box unbeknownst

17:40

to the ER

17:42

people my little gram of

17:44

black tar heroin was still there safe and

17:47

sound so I released myself

17:49

against medical advice found

17:51

a cab and headed back

17:54

down to Costa Mesa or Santa Ana fountain valley

17:56

wherever the fuck I was living at this point

17:58

with my hair a couple

18:01

cigarettes and continued

18:03

this charade of a lifestyle for

18:05

years to come. Life's

18:07

a lot better nowadays. I'm very grateful. I'm

18:11

still struggling with sobriety, but I'm not giving up.

18:14

I love dopey. Stay

18:16

strong and toodles. Three

18:19

minutes, 55 seconds. Fuck yeah. All

18:22

right, Earl. Thank you so much for sending

18:24

in the voicemail. You get

18:26

socks. Congratulations. If

18:28

you want your voicemail or email on

18:30

the show and you have

18:32

a good story, you get socks. And,

18:34

Earl, thank you for the story.

18:36

I'm glad the dude saved your

18:38

life and I'm glad you're listening

18:40

and you're on the fence, but that means

18:43

you're alive and there's hope. There's hope

18:46

when there's life. Getting corneer

18:48

as I get fucking older. It's ridiculous. I

18:50

want to give a big shout

18:52

out to dopey cynic jewels who

18:54

just celebrated like fucking a million

18:57

years in abstinence from

18:59

alcohol because

19:01

jewels is a big micro doser.

19:03

28 years

19:06

sober today. 28 years

19:09

sober besides the micro dosing. Congratulations

19:11

to jewels. Jewels also sent

19:14

in a dopey hate

19:16

email about, uh, what's his face?

19:19

Oh, Annie Letterman. I can't believe he didn't send

19:21

in a hate email about Jesse.

19:24

Oh my God. We're going to do

19:26

a hatred on special on

19:29

Jesse Schwenker hate mail. So

19:31

sign up to Patreon

19:34

at www.patreon.com/dopey podcast. I

19:37

just re-released the seldom seen

19:39

last Jewish waiter sizzle reel

19:41

spectacular. Everybody loves that. We

19:44

also just had John Bukkati, booger sugar

19:47

bear John Bukkati back on Patreon. I

19:49

think it's going to come out on

19:51

Tuesday. Very new classic dopey show. I

19:54

cannot wait for you guys to hear

19:56

it. I want to read another email.

19:58

Yeah. Listen to fucking

20:00

hours and hours of Dopey a week, you should

20:02

join Patreon, I'm just out of principle. So if

20:05

you're on the fence, please join Patreon. It

20:07

would be very, very helpful. It would

20:09

make the show marginally or

20:12

supremely dopier. And

20:14

today's guest is none

20:16

other than Emmy award-winning

20:18

actor, fucking brilliant friend of

20:20

the show, Hank Azaria. I

20:25

love Hank. I love that he came back

20:27

on the show. So get ready. He

20:29

is, I just think it was a beautiful appearance.

20:31

I got a note from our friend Craig Maddox.

20:34

Craig is connected to our

20:36

Dopey friend Montana, who is

20:38

in prison, I think in

20:40

Texas, maybe Oklahoma. This is

20:42

a note from Montana. How's

20:45

it going? Pretty good here. It's

20:47

been a good day. Finally made it

20:49

to commissary. Got myself a pint

20:51

of cookie two step ice cream and radio.

20:54

I've been in my cell jamming

20:56

out. There is

20:59

a rock station out of Houston. I've

21:01

always liked 94.5. The

21:04

buzz man,

21:06

you know who I think would be

21:08

a bad ass guest on

21:10

Dopey? Jelly Roll. I

21:13

don't know if you've ever heard his country

21:15

music. If not, listen to a call a

21:17

song called save me, but dude lived the

21:19

life for real and he's letting it be

21:22

known if he can change. So can anyone.

21:24

And I think he would gladly be a

21:26

guest. All right. Thanks

21:28

Montana. That guy is really my

21:30

only source of hope right now. It would be

21:32

really cool. Even though I couldn't hear it, I

21:35

think his message would be great for a lot

21:37

of people. Anyway, I'm good now. I feel like

21:39

I can start doing this time. I'm

21:41

going to try to do something great with

21:44

it. I feel like I have to do

21:46

something great with it. Otherwise it was for

21:48

nothing, but if something can come out of

21:50

it, it wasn't wasted time. I got to

21:52

go try to get a haircut and that's

21:54

from Montana. So you

21:57

write him at Montana Rockman number two

21:59

four. 831-74 P.O. Box 660-400 Dallas, Texas

22:01

75266 JPay or CICORUS for messaging. Yeah,

22:13

we wish you well Montana. I know you're not going

22:15

to hear this, but we wish you well. We love

22:18

you. All right. I'm going

22:20

to read another note. But first I need

22:22

to say that this episode of DOPY

22:24

is also brought to you from

22:27

the good people at mountainside. And

22:29

if you don't know what mountainside is, then you're

22:31

not listening to enough DOPY. Mountainside

22:34

is the treatment center in Canaan, Connecticut

22:36

where Chris and I met and kind

22:38

of DOPY was born. Mountainside

22:41

also is just a great treatment

22:43

center. It has a full continuum

22:46

of care, which includes detox, residential,

22:48

long-term residential, outpatient,

22:50

and coaching programs

22:53

after care. So whatever program

22:55

a person needs, mountainside has

22:57

it. They also have an

22:59

incredibly holistic approach. They do

23:02

yoga, acupuncture, sound baths, the

23:04

sweat lodge, you know, the

23:06

potentially spiritually transformative sweat lodge, art

23:08

and music therapy. I was there.

23:10

I did all of it, even

23:12

the acupuncture. It's an incredible program.

23:15

Check them out at

23:17

mountainside.com/DOPY. They have a

23:19

little DOPY page. So

23:21

go to mountainside.com/DOPY or

23:23

call them at 888-833-4922. Mountainside

23:29

is an incredible spot. If you're fucked and you're

23:31

willing to go to Connecticut, please check them out.

23:34

And now another DOPY note. I love this note.

23:37

Hi, Dave. Here's a story about

23:39

one of the first times I did opiates.

23:42

Right after I had written this, I

23:44

listened to the Jack Like Jesse interview

23:46

and it's funny. He mentions 200

23:49

milligrams of morphine on the first

23:51

time that, and that is what this

23:53

story is about. In

23:56

1992, now this is interesting. We're

23:58

the same age. In 1992,

24:00

I was a senior in high school in

24:02

Providence, Rhode Island. At that

24:05

time, I was absolutely in love

24:07

with DXM cough medicine. But

24:10

I was also very opiate curious. I

24:13

had fucked around with codeine,

24:15

Vicodin, Percocet, etc. but

24:17

had never really been bowled over by them.

24:20

I was known for being the guy in my

24:22

class who would experiment with drugs, so one day

24:24

a pothead buddy of mine told me he had

24:26

a gift for me. I went

24:28

over to his house after school and he

24:31

showed me how he had found a black

24:33

doctor's bag. I wonder if

24:36

the doctor was black or the bag

24:38

was black. Belonging to his father for

24:40

house calls, I suppose. His father was a

24:43

doctor. He had found it

24:45

in the front hall closet stuffed in the back,

24:48

I think it was a black bag, on a

24:50

high shelf along with some hats and shoes. It

24:52

had been stowed away there probably 20 years

24:55

earlier and was apparently

24:57

forgotten about, until my friend happened

24:59

to find it. Inside

25:02

were a bunch of needles,

25:04

gauze, a stethoscope, whatever. What

25:09

we were interested in were the drugs, of

25:11

course. Holy shit. There

25:13

were vials of liquid

25:17

diazepam, morphine, Demerol,

25:20

and Levorphinol. He

25:23

told me I could have the morphine. Oh my

25:25

goodness. So I took it home with me.

25:28

When I got home, I wasn't sure what to

25:30

do with it. I hadn't taken any

25:32

of the needles and

25:34

wouldn't have known how to use

25:36

them anyway. The bottle was brown

25:38

glass, about three inches tall and

25:40

was about two-thirds full. By

25:42

the way, this is a fantastic Dopey email. On

25:45

the label, it said 15 milligrams. I'd

25:48

heard a normal dose of morphine

25:50

was around eight milligrams. After

25:53

pulling the rubber stopper out, I wetted a

25:55

cigarette down with a tiny bit of

25:57

the liquid and set it out to dry.

26:00

under a lamp. Then I downed

26:02

the rest. As soon as I was

26:04

done drinking the bottle I looked at the label

26:06

again and read it more carefully. It

26:08

actually said 15 milligrams

26:10

per cc and it was a

26:13

20 cc bottle so

26:15

I had just drank something

26:17

like 200 milligrams of morphine

26:19

sulfate which I figured was

26:21

way too much. And

26:23

he spells way with four five A's.

26:26

I debated making myself vomit but I

26:28

didn't want to waste the morphine either

26:30

so I figured oh well I'll just

26:32

see what happens. A bit

26:34

later my bandmates came over to

26:37

practice in my basement. We

26:39

played and at some point I

26:41

was thinking damn nothing happens. Nothing

26:43

is happening just a mild codeine like

26:46

buzz. At some point I went

26:48

upstairs and grabbed the cigarette I dipped which

26:50

was now dry. It had all

26:52

it had turned all lumpy and brown.

26:55

I think she wanted to say lumpy

26:57

but wumpy sounds like a great word. And

26:59

when I lit it up it seemed to

27:01

almost explode. It burned so fast. It apparently

27:03

smelled good because my bandmates were all like

27:05

hey what is that give us some. I

27:08

of course didn't share because I wanted it

27:10

all for myself and anyways I was running

27:12

to the bathroom to throw up. When I

27:14

came back I sat down and we started

27:16

going through some of the songs we've been

27:19

practicing. I was immediately pulled down

27:21

into some kind of dark menacing

27:24

primordial jungle. All around me it was

27:26

black and green and there were weird

27:28

weird birds up on the branches above

27:30

me. I remember looking

27:32

at the toucan and

27:35

then noticing its beak was all infected

27:38

with some kind of mangy

27:40

mangy flesh eating disease. I

27:42

felt I could see every disgusting detail

27:44

of it and it was horrid. All

27:46

around me felt over ripe oversaturated

27:49

with color to the point of

27:52

turning it black sickly sweet. Then

27:55

just like that the vision faded leaving me

27:57

with a mild afterglow. The funny thing was

27:59

I never stopped playing and directing

28:01

the rest of the band. It had

28:04

been like I was on autopilot, while

28:06

my conscious mind sunk into the weird

28:08

jungle nod. Anyways, I

28:10

later learned that sometimes, when

28:12

taken orally, morphine doesn't work

28:15

well because your stomach acid

28:17

breaks it down before it

28:19

becomes bioavailable. Other than this,

28:21

I don't know why drinking so much

28:23

didn't really do anything, while the tiny

28:25

bit on the cigarette had blasted me

28:27

into another dimension. Ha, at

28:30

least for five minutes. So pretty much,

28:32

I wasted the whole beautiful bottle. I

28:34

could have dosed a hundred cigarettes with

28:36

it. Then again, I didn't OD, so

28:38

I was lucky, I guess. Also, it's

28:40

weird because later in my life, when

28:43

I did start doing heroin on the

28:45

regular, I never again had such a

28:47

vivid visual experience as I got from

28:49

the morphine cigarette nod. Over

28:51

the next couple of weeks, I eventually

28:53

finished off the rest of the drugs

28:56

from the black bag. Thanks

28:58

for everything Dave. I love dopey.

29:00

Toodles for Chris. Stay strong. And

29:02

this is a note from Eddie

29:04

Vedder of Pearl Jam. Holy

29:06

shit. No, it's from Dan.

29:09

So thank you, Dan. I've never heard of

29:11

a visual from morphine

29:13

story. So whatever.

29:15

I love the note. Thank you,

29:18

Dan. You get socks. Send me

29:20

your address and you get dopey

29:22

socks. I have one more note

29:24

I want to read really quick.

29:27

But if you have a doctor's

29:29

black bag story or a black

29:31

doctor's bag story full of drugs,

29:34

please send it to dopeypodcast.gmail.com. These

29:36

are the stories I'd really like

29:38

to hear. And any

29:40

kind of stories on drugs, addiction, dumb

29:42

shit or recovery that you have. Send

29:45

it in. We need your story. I

29:48

got this message from Canadian Craig

29:50

Marsden. Morning, Dave. Thanks

29:52

for thinking of me. You read

29:55

two of my emails on the pod

29:57

recently. If you think that warrants quote

29:59

unquote free. socks, I

30:01

would love them. I would actually

30:03

like to buy some socks in the

30:05

near future just waiting for new dopey

30:08

sock designs to surface. Craig,

30:10

are you aware of how many dopey socks we have? I

30:12

think I need to take a picture and post that. By

30:15

the way, I cannot believe

30:17

you compared Canada to Staten

30:19

Island. Canada

30:22

is a big country

30:24

with loads of unique

30:27

people and just like anywhere else

30:29

loads of stereotypes. If you

30:31

frame people that way and look for

30:34

stereotypes, you see stereotypes. It's

30:36

just funny because I think Staten Island is

30:38

also a big country with loads of unique

30:41

people, a big place, big borough. We

30:44

are all suspect and susceptible

30:46

to try and organize and label

30:48

people to help us categorize

30:50

and process strangers into safe little

30:52

boxes. I mean, I know you

30:54

grew up in Chelsea, New York

30:56

City, but now certain New Yorkers

30:58

would call you a B and

31:00

T here, which

31:03

means bridge and tunnel, a suburbanite that

31:05

lives in a bedroom community and travels

31:07

to New York City to work and

31:10

play. Who really cares? I

31:12

think you should spend more time in

31:14

Canada. I think you just have a

31:16

very limited experience and therefore have no

31:18

real information to guide your views

31:20

and judgments. Anyway, keep up

31:22

the good work and keep on commuting

31:24

from Staten Island to New York City.

31:26

Talk to you soon. Toodles. I

31:28

sent you the socks, Craig. I

31:31

hope you're joking. I don't live on Staten

31:33

Island. I think that was a joke. I

31:35

live on Long Island. As

31:37

a New York City person, I would

31:40

never have wanted to live

31:42

on Long Island, but I find it

31:44

very peaceful and serene. All

31:46

right, but I appreciate your point. Stereotyping

31:49

is not cool and we

31:51

don't support stereotyping on Dopey except

31:53

maybe when around Canadians and

31:56

Staten Islanders. No, I'm kidding. I love,

31:58

I love staying in Staten Island. and

32:00

Canadians. My favorite podcast, I think

32:03

it's my second favorite podcast, maybe

32:06

my third favorite podcast behind Dopey and

32:08

the good old Grateful Dead cast, is

32:10

of course Nick's film

32:13

school, which is

32:15

made by Staten Islanders. Staten Island

32:17

fuckos. Anyway, I appreciate the note

32:19

Craig, you know, God bless Canada.

32:22

I love every Canadian dope. I

32:24

love most every Canadian dope and

32:27

I love every Staten Island dope. I

32:29

don't think there are any Staten Island

32:31

dopes. So if you're a dope from

32:33

Staten Island, let your freak flag fly,

32:35

send it an email or a voicemail.

32:37

I want to hear that tangy Staten

32:39

Island crazy accent. All right, we're

32:42

gonna get to Hank Azaria. I love

32:44

Hank Azaria on the show. He talks

32:47

about Matthew Perry. He talks

32:49

about recovery. He talks New York.

32:51

He talks, he's amazing. Hank Azaria,

32:54

he's the truth. Hank Azaria, he

32:56

keeps it out of buck. But

32:58

before we get to Hank Azaria,

33:00

I need to say how much I

33:03

am grateful for our new

33:05

sponsor, new sponsor.

33:08

It's our friend John Anderson

33:10

of Integrity Homes, sober

33:12

living houses on

33:15

Long Island or Long

33:17

Island. Integrity

33:19

Homes Long Island is the

33:21

premier 12 step based

33:23

sober living homes for men

33:25

on Long Island. They are

33:28

offering housing in Freeport and

33:30

Uniondale, Long Island. They have

33:32

a 12 step based

33:34

sober community in their houses

33:36

to create an environment that

33:38

is vital to success

33:41

in early recovery. Their website

33:43

is integrityhomesli.com. Their phone number

33:46

is 516-210-5049. If you're looking

33:48

for a sober house and

33:55

you want to come out to

33:57

Long Island, check out Integrity Homes

33:59

LI. Call that number

34:01

or go to

34:03

integrityhomesli.com. If you're looking for

34:06

a sober home, please support Integrity

34:08

Homes Long Island. If you have any

34:11

questions about Integrity Homes, just send in

34:13

a voicemail or an email to dopeypodcast.com

34:15

or write them again at integrityhomesli.com.

34:19

Now enough of the fanfare in Hoopla.

34:22

Here he is, Hank Azaria, back on

34:24

Dopey. Hello.

34:30

We're back on the show and

34:33

we're turning guest Emmy Award-winning

34:35

actor, fucking, do you ever

34:37

write anything? Yeah, I'm not a

34:39

great writer. What have you written? I

34:42

helped write the short of Jim Brockmeyer.

34:44

Yeah, you wrote that show. Yeah, and

34:47

I've written things that, you know, didn't

34:49

get made. You wrote a short film

34:51

called Fatherhood? Well, I didn't

34:53

write, that was a documentary. Well, that's

34:55

right. I mean, I produced it and

34:58

put it together. Producer, actor. That's more

35:00

filmmaking, documentary filmmaking. I'm better at

35:02

that than writing. Filmmaker, Hank Azaria, welcome back

35:04

to the show. Thank you very much. I

35:06

really just, that was very humble entrance by

35:08

me. How do you mean? I'm

35:10

just saying what I'm not good at. Well, that's

35:13

humility is a really important thing. I guess so.

35:15

And I think today is a fitting day for

35:17

you to come back on Dopey because it is

35:20

opening day for the Mets and

35:22

what happened? Well, that rained out, yeah. And I

35:24

was going to go today too, right after this.

35:27

But, you know, now I can. So what does

35:29

that... We're starting right off with the disappointment. Well,

35:31

then what does that teach us about recovery? You

35:36

know, one day at a time, I

35:38

guess. Perseverance. Yeah. It's like, look at

35:40

the Knicks. The Knicks were the biggest

35:42

losers in the world. And now we

35:44

have hope and it came from good

35:46

planning, action, right? Yeah.

35:49

Can it happen for the Mets? Yes,

35:51

absolutely. Because in the

35:53

case of the Knicks, their owner somehow

35:57

saw the light and hired good people in her...

36:00

letting them do their thing. And

36:02

we're just fortunate that the Mets do

36:04

owner is of a similar mind. Well,

36:06

the funny thing about the Knicks owners,

36:08

he's a support, supposedly one of us.

36:11

So maybe he realized he couldn't

36:14

do it. So he let go and he

36:16

said, yeah, well, he doesn't drink,

36:18

but I'm not sure he's in recovery. Now I was

36:20

going to write an op-ed

36:23

piece called Jim Dolan's

36:25

missing 11th step or 10th step. The

36:28

10th step is missing from Jim Dolan's life.

36:30

Well, there's evidence for that, I suppose. But

36:32

he's coming through now. So maybe he's making

36:35

me. Yeah. I mean, well, in this area

36:37

anyway, I gotta say, you know, it's impressive

36:39

the way he stepped back seemingly. It's

36:42

a beautiful time to be a Knicks fan. Yeah,

36:44

it's very exciting. I feel really, really good. And

36:47

you are in long-term recovery. That's

36:49

true. And how do you feel?

36:52

I feel really good. Very, very,

36:54

you know, on those terms, like,

36:57

every day I'm grateful for it. I

36:59

feel it in my life every day. I've turned into one of

37:01

those people that, you know, used to

37:04

only go in when there was a crisis,

37:06

either my drinking bottomed out or relationships bottomed

37:08

out or something else bottomed out. And

37:10

then I, you know, would get a lot

37:12

out of the program, then leave and come back when there was

37:15

a next crisis. And now I'm like, I don't, I don't go

37:17

for that fake anymore. It's like keeping the car, enough

37:19

oil in the car and gas in the car and keeping

37:21

it tuned. And actually,

37:23

I really love it. I mean, I go

37:26

in there and it's such honest human connection

37:28

every day that I love it. So it

37:30

can't be good every day, right? That's impossible.

37:32

No. So the question is, how many

37:35

years do you have? Well, I've got

37:37

25 years in like Al-Anon and

37:39

ACA recovery. And I have got 18 years

37:41

of alcohol sobriety, alcohol and drug sobriety. Yeah.

37:44

So either way, we don't remember how you,

37:46

how you 18 years sober from alcohol? Yeah.

37:48

In 25? This July, it'll be

37:50

18 one day at a time. God willing.

37:52

God willing. Yeah. And 25

37:54

from Al-Anon, what are the biggest

37:57

things that you struggle with with that? much

38:00

time. Well having that much

38:02

time? I mean like having

38:04

that much time every day can't be a fucking hurry.

38:07

Well life provides you plenty of shit. Really?

38:09

Oh yeah. My life is so perfect and

38:11

I only have eight and a half years.

38:15

It's amazing. Well then you should sponsor me

38:17

because I haven't figured out how to make

38:20

life. The thing is we say a lot

38:22

a lot of things do get better like

38:24

you stop drinking and it's

38:26

hard physically and emotionally at first but you

38:29

know a lot of problems go away

38:31

because you're not a drunken lunatic anymore

38:34

and so some things get better similar

38:37

with codependent alanonic recovery where you're no

38:39

longer a nagging, whining, worrying

38:42

freak so things people tend to

38:44

lighten up around you and that's a lot easier

38:47

but it doesn't change life ups

38:49

and downs you just handle them better.

38:52

Right and it's spiritual progress rather than

38:54

spiritual perfection. Exactly and then I noticed

38:56

it becomes a kind of joy

38:59

in realizing well that you

39:01

know ten years ago you like

39:03

that project not

39:05

going through would have really wrecked

39:08

me for two weeks and now it was like 20

39:10

minutes of feeling a little bummed and and

39:13

not in denial about it not like shrugging off

39:15

or pretending that didn't bother me but

39:17

like genuinely like I'm okay what's next?

39:19

And that's the practice of knowing that

39:21

you're gonna be okay even when something

39:23

bad happens. Yeah there's a cute slogan

39:26

for it in Al-Anon

39:28

recovery there's only three answers to any

39:30

prayer similar to that like any project you work

39:32

on for years at least in show business it's

39:34

like a prayer right please God let this not

39:36

be in vain I'm trying so hard to get

39:38

this made it usually takes years to get a

39:40

yes or no on the thing and

39:45

there's one slogan is man's rejection

39:47

is God's protection meaning probably

39:50

a good reason why this didn't happen or

39:53

the one I like even better is only three answers to

39:55

any prayer yes yes but

39:57

not now and no but I

39:59

have something better So I

40:01

have a lot of faith that nobody has something better

40:03

because I've seen the evidence over the years like man

40:05

I'll give you an example I

40:08

did this show The Idol I guess

40:10

a couple years now and I loved it I loved working

40:12

on it and I thought it was great and

40:15

it was like universally reviled. That

40:17

was with Johnny Depp's daughter? Yes

40:19

with Lily Rose Depp and

40:21

The Weeknd directed by Sam Levinson

40:23

does Euphoria but to me the one day

40:25

at a time of doing that job the

40:27

creative experience in the set was so amazing

40:29

I wanted to keep doing it and

40:32

I was playing on this Israeli character, I

40:34

enjoyed playing Israeli and I

40:37

was really bummed when it was a kind

40:41

of universally hated and made fun of and

40:44

b didn't continue and

40:46

you know in light of

40:48

world events since October

40:50

7th the how much social

40:53

and societal pressure I think I would have

40:55

had to deal with playing and Israeli right

40:58

I was like whoa you know I'm

41:00

glad I didn't have to take that on the

41:03

any version of like a spokesperson

41:05

or it's complicated right because

41:07

the whole world is like black or white where are you

41:09

for against yes or no and then

41:11

I'm also playing an Israeli and not actually Israeli. I

41:13

am Jewish it's a lot it

41:17

would have been a lot to have to navigate and

41:20

I've had enough of that in the last decade

41:22

and luckily the show just was hated so you don't

41:24

have to deal with it. You never know it's

41:26

that whole good news bad news parable right no that's

41:28

good news no that's bad news well no it's good

41:30

news so I've come to have a

41:33

lot of faith in another saying is God's will is

41:35

what happens. I love that that's my

41:37

thing I think I made that up I don't know

41:39

I heard it before I knew you but

41:42

maybe it got around maybe it did in

41:44

the rooms yeah but I love it

41:47

and it's true you know I know that can be

41:49

debated to people get upset with that one. I have

41:51

a really stupid question yes when you work with the

41:53

weekend yeah what do you call him? Abel.

41:56

You call him Abel. That's his name yeah okay you

41:58

don't say the you don't say You know, you ask

42:00

him why he doesn't put the E in the end

42:02

of weekend. I never got around to asking that's the

42:05

only Ask him that

42:07

every day Accept the

42:09

answer you got I that's the kind of jerk.

42:11

He has it as he's a very sweet guy.

42:13

Yeah, that's cool You've worked with

42:16

a lot of like crazy successful people

42:19

crazy crazy like Monumentally

42:21

legendary people. Yeah before we go down

42:24

that path We've had

42:26

the pleasure of working with dopey for a little

42:28

while now. Yes and Starting

42:30

you came on the show to incredible

42:34

lauded love Appreciation

42:36

you were universe. You were one of

42:39

the more universally loved dope again. Is

42:41

that right? Yeah, that's lovely That's great

42:43

And you weren't like a heroin addict

42:45

who shot fucking dope in your neck

42:47

or put acid in your eyes So

42:49

it's very unusual that such a recovery

42:52

centric individual would be loved so much

42:54

by our Depraved community that

42:56

is curious. I go. I mean I am

42:58

kind of old man River now everywhere I'm

43:01

about to be 60, you know in

43:03

the rooms. I've been there a long time on sets I've been

43:05

there a long time. So I guess after a

43:07

while if you have enough Recovery

43:10

wisdom experience and

43:12

you're fairly common bellow People

43:14

respond sometimes and you

43:17

came to dopey con ivy I did and

43:19

and was a big part of

43:21

it I enjoy I love the whole dopey

43:23

universe. You've enjoyed this experience Adobe verse the

43:25

dopest fear. Yes, don't be verse Well, it

43:27

is cool. Look I relate to being and

43:29

it wasn't a heroin addict But I was

43:31

a pretty good addict and I relate to

43:33

being that raw and young You

43:35

know and I could have used a voice like

43:37

mine back then for sure Well,

43:40

we appreciate you and and also we did

43:42

our good event at people hood We

43:44

did do that too, and I swear to

43:46

God fucking the

43:48

people I didn't expect the people

43:50

at peoplehood to be such Anchos

43:53

area nuts. I don't know

43:55

they were not they were nothing at the map. I don't every

43:57

project you did.

44:00

They had a lot of questions, lots of questions,

44:03

and a lot of recovery questions too. It

44:05

was an interesting evening.

44:08

And you questioned my love of nitrous. I

44:11

did. You questioned why I would need nitrous if

44:13

I had a teeth cleaning. Well you, I, it

44:15

was shtick. Yeah, but at the same

44:17

time I'm looking for a dentist that will give me nitrous

44:19

to clean my teeth. Are you really? Yes. See that's, I

44:21

don't, that's not good.

44:24

Why? Now we're getting back into the loop

44:26

because it's, it's borderline going

44:28

out. Drug speaking? Yeah. I don't, I

44:30

really, I, what if it's just dentist avoidant? There's

44:34

no better ways to deal with

44:36

the dentist? Like meditation? No,

44:38

I, the pain, the pain, the intrusion,

44:40

and it seems like a free lapse,

44:43

if you will. Well exactly. Is a

44:45

free lapse not, is not free? It

44:48

seems like that, my other, my other. As opposed

44:50

to the line as you want to get. I'm

44:53

pretty comfortable with that. Right. For this. Now

44:57

they're gonna see this beautiful painting.

44:59

Yeah. And this is the great

45:01

artist Kenny Sharp. Correct. And he

45:04

pops up on the streets of New York

45:06

and Los Angeles. How did you come into

45:08

this thing? About 20 years

45:10

ago I got really into buying art, you

45:13

know, as investments. And it

45:15

was an interesting world to be in for a

45:17

year or two. It reminded me of casting in

45:20

Hollywood because you go to an art dealer or

45:22

an art expert and they tell you,

45:24

okay, so these are the significant pieces. This is what

45:27

you want. Some of it's obvious, but

45:29

a lot of it isn't, including what's

45:31

speculative. Like, you know, because you

45:33

really, what you want to do as an investor is find

45:36

an artist that's on the rise, which isn't like

45:38

anything. It's hard to spot. And

45:40

these guys have an expert opinion that I was right. And

45:43

so, you know, especially as an art, I'm

45:46

not an art expert. So they tell you

45:48

it's, it almost seems arbitrary. You're

45:51

like, so that painting, but not that

45:53

one. Okay. They both look amazing. I

45:55

kind of like the one you're telling

45:57

me is not worth anything better, but

45:59

all right. And

46:01

the reason why it's like, and

46:03

then some really do appreciate and value you, like

46:05

you take their expert opinion and you try to,

46:07

of what they tell you is significant, you try

46:09

to pick what you like. The reason

46:11

why it's like casting is you go to cast a

46:13

movie or TV show in Hollywood as a producer or

46:15

director, the studio or the

46:18

whatever will tell you, well here's

46:20

the actors you can choose from that we feel

46:22

are worth it. In other words, these are the

46:24

actors that are on the come that are going

46:26

to be valuable. And of that

46:28

pull, you may like an actor they don't

46:30

think is valuable better, but they're saying you

46:32

can't have that guy. So you

46:34

try to pick the person you like the best

46:36

out of what they say is significant. And

46:39

they're not always right either. It's like

46:41

the idol though, it's like you want

46:43

every project to appreciate, you want every

46:45

project you do to be the birdcage

46:47

or something. Yes. But it can't be

46:49

that way. Or the Knicks want everyone

46:51

to be like Deuce McBride, like some

46:53

second round pick who winds up being

46:55

decent or Mitchell Robinson. Yes. Except he's

46:57

very injury prone. And he

47:00

can't shoot free throws. And he loses

47:02

the ball every time they give it

47:04

to him. I think Hartenstein has come

47:06

on as the obvious starter. I don't

47:08

think they're gonna be able to pay

47:10

him next year. Hartenstein? I'm concerned Hartenstein.

47:12

Mitch is on the books.

47:15

He's in. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Did

47:17

you watch last night? I haven't seen it

47:19

yet, but I imagine they destroyed the Raptors

47:21

because the good actors had no starters. Yeah,

47:23

it was great. It was a great time.

47:26

I imagine. Yeah, the last two have been. It's

47:28

been fun watching the Knicks this year. Do you

47:30

think, the only like 12 games left in the season, do you think

47:33

that Randall and OG are gonna come back? I

47:35

don't think Randall's gonna come back. I

47:37

think it's for the best. I'm very

47:39

worried about OG. Yeah. Very, very, very,

47:41

very, very. I remember you and I

47:43

were texting though, like in that January

47:45

streak. Yeah. And you were like, OG

47:47

looks great. And then I wrote, but

47:49

how hurt is he? Yeah. And then

47:51

he didn't play again. Yeah, it turns

47:53

out quite hurt. Exactly. And he played

47:55

again, he immediately went back on the

47:57

bench. She's injury prone. Played well too. She's injury prone.

48:00

Yeah, I guess he is. But RJ Barrett

48:02

should have been called RJ Cancer because we've

48:04

been Cancer Freeze and it's like he was not

48:06

good for our team. No, the reason

48:09

why I do want Randall back is it seemed

48:11

to unlock Randall. RJ kind of clearing off the

48:13

court. Right, it gave him some space. Yeah. But

48:16

we'll see, we'll see. This is not a Knicks podcast hanging

48:18

in the area. What are you doing here? Sorry. Now,

48:20

we're gonna go down a road that you

48:23

might not wanna go down and we can

48:25

not go down. Let's see. Okay, you wrote

48:27

a brilliant op-ed piece for the New York

48:29

Times called God is a Group

48:31

of Drunks. Yeah. And

48:33

in it, you talk a

48:35

bit about Matthew Perry. Yeah. But

48:38

you also talk about the power of the program. Yeah. And

48:42

I reread it on the way in this morning

48:45

and I just thought it was really

48:47

beautiful, even if it's like Matthew Perry

48:49

notwithstanding. Yeah. You know what

48:51

I mean? Just the concept

48:54

of how 12-step can work and

48:57

why it could work. And when

49:00

I was told Group

49:02

of Drunks, I didn't

49:04

really. Like I needed a gift

49:06

of desperation. How did Group of Drunks

49:08

hit you so well? Well, I

49:11

was desperate at the time, first of all, or I wouldn't

49:13

have stuck around for it. And I

49:15

had no idea what he meant. He

49:17

is the first person that said that. Matthew Perry said

49:19

that to me. I walked into, this

49:21

is all in the op-ed. He

49:24

took me to my first AA meeting. How

49:26

did that even happen? Well, Matthew and I had been very,

49:28

very close friends for years. I met him when he was

49:30

17. I was 22. And

49:33

at that point, this is probably now

49:35

20 years later. And

49:38

we had been very, very close friends all

49:40

through that time, especially for a decade and

49:43

a half. When he got

49:45

sober originally, we sort

49:47

of, when he encountered

49:49

his first round or two

49:51

of difficulty with drugs and alcohol and then got sober,

49:54

kind of lost touch of them a bit, or wasn't

49:56

as close anyway. Didn't really lose touch, but wasn't as

49:59

close. And then he had

50:01

some traction for a while. He was kind

50:03

of forever going in and out, but there

50:05

were periods where he had really nice sobriety.

50:08

And I knew he was in recovery. He was in one

50:10

of those good phases, if you want to call it that.

50:13

And I was realizing I had a problem, and I said,

50:15

will you take me to a meeting in LA? And he

50:17

did. He and his sponsor took me. And

50:19

they took me out afterwards, and they kind of

50:21

sat with me and chatted me through

50:23

it. And I walked in, and it was

50:25

a very large meeting in Brentwood. I mean,

50:27

like, God, 300 people or something. Wow.

50:30

Double speaker meeting. And

50:32

I looked, as I put it

50:34

in the op-ed, I looked beyond daunted. I looked

50:36

quite demoralized, to use a word from the literature.

50:40

And he saw the look on my face because he knew

50:42

me really well. And said, it's

50:44

something, right? God's a bunch of trunks in a room

50:46

together. And I was like, yeah. I

50:48

didn't really know what that meant. And then I

50:50

wrote. It meant that

50:52

the opposite of addiction is not sobriety.

50:55

It's connection. It's connecting with

50:57

people. It's what you think is your deepest

50:59

darkest shame that you would never tell anyone.

51:01

You hear everyone around you telling their version

51:03

casually, matter of factly. You're like, oh, I

51:06

guess I do fit in here. And

51:08

then you work up the courage to tell what your

51:11

story is. You listen to what sounds

51:13

like your story. Go to that person. And

51:15

then your community builds. And you know, as we say,

51:18

you take what you like and leave the rest. Probably

51:20

most of the people in the room I'd

51:22

rather not engage with, but those

51:25

gems for me, like Matthew was one.

51:28

When you're in that situation, and I

51:31

still am in and out on this idea,

51:34

the higher power situation, how

51:36

to really channel higher power. I

51:41

have my struggles, a lot of which you know

51:43

about, and how

51:46

to go to God with those problems,

51:49

and how weird it is to even

51:51

say it for me, going to God

51:53

with those problems. Everyone at my

51:55

meeting is like, God is like my bro.

51:57

And it's like, I don't feel like

51:59

that. I don't know how to deal with that.

52:03

For me, higher power was gift of desperation

52:05

because I was desperate and the G.O.D. spelled

52:07

God. It seemed to be good for

52:09

me. Then the universe is this vast place and

52:13

I'm in it so it's bigger than

52:15

me. Then just the beauty of love

52:17

and the beauty of science, how quickly

52:19

did higher power shit resonate with you?

52:23

Not very quickly. Like

52:25

most people, or most people like us

52:27

I guess, who

52:29

grew up as pretty agnostic at best

52:32

or skeptical or not loving our religious

52:34

backgrounds, whatever it was. My

52:37

sponsor at the time, I first read the movie Steps in

52:39

the Al-Anon program and he kind of

52:41

came from, God's

52:44

mentioned a lot in his literature so you

52:46

got to make peace with whatever you think

52:48

that is. You know? You

52:51

got to deal with it. The

52:54

way he put it was, it's going to

52:56

ask you to pray and you got

52:59

to know who you're talking to if you're

53:02

going to do this. I was like, dude,

53:04

what do you want from me? I

53:07

don't have any concept of that. For

53:10

me, it's just the wisdom of the group. I just

53:12

would look around, God's a bunch of

53:14

drunks. For some reason, people

53:17

with problems like I had or worse

53:19

were smiling, calm, happy and connected. All

53:22

I know is I wanted what they had. We

53:26

went through it and I kind of

53:28

got an idea. You know what

53:30

really is valuable? I worked through it and I think a

53:32

lot, I've worked a lot of people through this. I

53:35

had already disabused of

53:37

the notion that there

53:40

was some Sky Daddy on a throne or something.

53:42

I didn't really go there. What

53:45

I really did realize was that my concept

53:47

of my higher power, I did

53:50

have one. It was a pretty

53:52

punishing God that was going to get me in

53:54

one way or another for how I

53:56

had fucked up or wasn't a good person, Which

53:59

was very much. Now my

54:01

parents are treated me pretty much have

54:03

you once you drill down not too

54:05

far especially in the Ac a adult

54:07

Children of Alcoholics Dysfunctional Families program. you

54:09

look at all that he realized that

54:11

pretty much to wear but she's got

54:13

is how their parents treated them because

54:15

that's what was our higher power. we

54:17

were little. And was

54:19

distorted. I framed it that way like

54:21

I couldn't have to repair it myself.

54:23

so I don't know what's out there.

54:26

Is. Anything. But. I need

54:28

to tell myself to don't have taken

54:30

that voice inner that in are critical

54:32

parent harsh thing. Need to tell my

54:34

side to be jammer with myself. I

54:36

do that you're connecting with people who

54:38

have managed to do that that you

54:40

know years later I as that sponsor

54:42

was a very spiritual guy. He. Go

54:44

on like meditation retreat. For.

54:46

Like a whole weekend silent. He was

54:48

a very warm com man and I

54:51

said you know when did it switch

54:53

for you. So's. My next

54:55

question from the wisdom of the

54:57

group to whatever your higher powers

54:59

is now just never got same.

55:02

Said. I just. Completely.

55:04

Believe it. And. Trust

55:06

in. That.

55:09

That will. Lead. Me where

55:11

I need to be so it never it

55:13

never flip for him. I think I told

55:16

you this last time I was with you.

55:18

I actually really reject a lot of the

55:20

words Birch. Although allergic to, I was raised

55:22

in a house where my sisters were very

55:25

spiritual, a law that was wonderful. Some of

55:27

it was a little. I. Saw a

55:29

Happy Spiritual or June like. You know

55:31

what I would consider New Wage for

55:34

what? Shirley Maclaine and he you know

55:36

in in India or past lives in

55:38

movies, jazz and my sis my sister

55:40

seventy is a wonderful astrologer. That said

55:42

you really is. but

55:46

there was a lot of it that i

55:48

saw was almost addictive it was like a

55:50

plain and simple but it's hammer was a

55:52

young actors why do i was a lying

55:54

in my sister's debate a fortune tell me

55:56

when does it what did the horoscopes yeah

55:58

me to get my big break And

56:00

when it didn't happen, I got really disillusioned. I'm

56:02

like, you know, I don't know

56:04

that this is so accurate. Yeah.

56:07

And I also thought that there were things

56:09

about that life that were almost

56:12

addictive. It reminded me of addicts, you know, I

56:14

didn't realize that at the time. So

56:16

I rejected a lot of it. But lately,

56:18

I've let myself realize I'm actually quite a

56:20

spiritual man and what person and what I

56:23

mean by that is, I told

56:25

you this, this Michelangelo thing. It's my favorite thing.

56:28

I feel – Tell the Dopey Nation, though. I

56:30

think I've – No, you said it at – I

56:32

never told the Dopey Nation that – You said it at peoplehood. Oh. And

56:35

you said it to me personally. Okay. And I

56:37

share it at meetings all the time and say I made it up. Cool. Well,

56:40

you're free to use it. Thank you. So,

56:42

for your recovery,

56:44

it's tremendous trial and error. You

56:47

know, every time you do a fourth through ninth

56:49

step, you look at your own flaws and your

56:51

parents, what do you make amends for? And every

56:53

time you have a crisis or even a small

56:56

problem and you take it to your sponsor, or

56:58

the group, and how can I better

57:00

– what's the solution? What's the solution? How can I

57:02

work through this better than I used to? You

57:06

go through enough of those and you start

57:09

to know – you don't know what God

57:11

is, but you know what it isn't. You

57:13

know what doesn't serve you, what doesn't

57:15

work, what doesn't feel good, what isn't

57:17

right. Not in the hedonistic

57:20

way, but just in the connected, calm way. And

57:23

you go through enough of those. You

57:25

know, Michelangelo, who famously sculpted the

57:28

David, which is a masterpiece, apparently

57:31

somebody walked up to

57:33

him when he had completed it. I

57:35

love this image and said, Gee, Michelangelo,

57:38

how did you do that? Which I

57:40

guess is a dumb question, but is a fair question.

57:44

And he famously said, I just chipped away

57:46

at everything that was not the statue until

57:48

there was the statue. I

57:51

feel that way about higher power and recovery. I

57:53

still can't tell you what it is. I

57:56

feel like I'm getting more and more and

57:58

well – more and more – well-versed in what

58:00

it isn't to the point where I can actually take

58:02

a step back now and see it

58:06

the way you can look at a statue. I

58:08

still can't describe to you what I'm looking at

58:10

but it's more of like a trust in what

58:13

feels off and what doesn't, what feels off

58:15

and what doesn't. Right. It isn't

58:17

jealousy, it isn't lust, it isn't greed,

58:20

it isn't drinking, it isn't using, it

58:22

isn't being a jerk off. It isn't

58:24

codependency, it isn't people-pleasing. Right. So when

58:27

it's not those things it is love.

58:29

What are you left with? Love and

58:31

generosity and next right thing, service, honesty.

58:35

Self-care. But

58:38

not too much self-care. No, just the

58:41

right amount. Well not

58:43

self-indulgence but self-care. But all those

58:45

things we just

58:47

mentioned, we just rattled through, those

58:50

were months and years of what does that really

58:52

mean? What's right action and right

58:54

speech as the Buddhists would say around all those

58:56

things? How does that actually work on the playing

58:58

field? Into action as they say in

59:01

the big book. Well that's a whole other thing. It's like people

59:04

like us who

59:06

are inundated with program. Yeah. Sometimes,

59:09

I'll speak for myself, people like

59:11

I, I'm inundated with program. Right.

59:13

I go to a few meetings

59:15

a week, I do this show,

59:17

I talk to people in recovery

59:19

constantly. Right. And it's very easy

59:21

to make lists in my head

59:24

of right action, right speech principles

59:26

but then how often am I

59:28

actually using them? Yeah. And it

59:30

becomes like very much like an

59:32

easy thing to mention but what

59:34

am I actually doing? It's like

59:36

people who talk about living in 10, 11

59:38

and 12. Are they really doing

59:40

it? Well that's a good question.

59:43

Thank you. Talking the talk versus walking the

59:45

walk as we say. Which is why look

59:47

you know why all aspects

59:50

of the program are

59:52

necessary. Checking in with the sponsor

59:54

or trusted fellows. Asking that question,

59:56

how did I do today? I

59:58

have this problem, how do you? think I should handle

1:00:01

it. What's your experience, strength and hope around it?

1:00:03

Checking in a lot because there's another cute

1:00:05

saying, my mind is a dangerous neighborhood. I

1:00:08

don't go in there alone. You know and

1:00:10

it's like I need to

1:00:12

bounce it off people. You know like is this

1:00:14

my instinct is to do this. What do you

1:00:16

think? No I wouldn't do that.

1:00:18

Right. Do you still

1:00:20

work with a sponsor? At the

1:00:23

moment no. Well ACU we have

1:00:25

fellow travelers. Okay okay. You know

1:00:27

where you have trusted right because

1:00:30

you can have you can have a sponsor

1:00:32

in ACI. I sponsor seven people currently myself

1:00:35

but the idea in ACA is

1:00:37

sometimes people don't want to have an authority figure

1:00:39

because it's too mommy and daddy ish. So

1:00:41

I have trusted fellows that I bounce

1:00:43

things off of. And you still bounce?

1:00:45

Oh constantly. Right. I mean that and

1:00:47

I think it's that flow that

1:00:49

is the whole deal and that's where the

1:00:52

real humility comes in where you don't know

1:00:54

so you trust other people to give

1:00:56

you perspective. Absolutely

1:00:59

because I know that they especially if I'm

1:01:01

upset enough. I'm triggered enough as

1:01:03

the kids like to say. I can't

1:01:06

see. I can't trust that. I

1:01:08

need to calm down and I can't I need to vent.

1:01:11

And another good saying that a fellow has

1:01:13

my buddy

1:01:15

Dennis says don't vent at the person you

1:01:17

are venting about. That's a

1:01:19

good tip. Very good tip. Yes. Because

1:01:22

that's just yelling at somebody you're angry

1:01:24

at. That's never gonna go well. Not

1:01:26

productive. So that you can be cool

1:01:28

later. In that pause you need

1:01:30

to vent. You need to feel the feelings.

1:01:32

You know. And when you

1:01:35

were on Dopey last time you talked

1:01:37

a ton about Matthew Perry without mentioning

1:01:39

his name. I guess I did. And

1:01:41

that kind of all came out after

1:01:44

his death which I know hit you

1:01:46

very hard. Yeah. What made you write

1:01:48

the op-ed? I

1:01:53

wanted to I was grieving. Still am. So

1:01:56

I wanted to express that. Especially

1:01:58

getting from Matthew's book and his

1:02:00

message at the end of how much he wanted

1:02:02

people, he wanted to be remembered

1:02:05

even more so as someone who tried

1:02:08

his best at recovery and

1:02:10

who helped people, a lot of people

1:02:14

than even more than a famous friend

1:02:16

or famous comedian and actor. So

1:02:20

I was sitting right here where we're

1:02:22

talking actually across the table, but

1:02:24

one morning early, the day after

1:02:26

he passed and I just

1:02:28

pulled out my phone and voice memo'd thoughts

1:02:31

about him and

1:02:36

ended up putting out on social media like

1:02:39

two minutes of it, just memories of him

1:02:42

and then I had it and I was like, is

1:02:44

this an op-ed? It

1:02:47

might be because I wanted to just, I

1:02:49

just felt the need to put something out

1:02:51

that was loving and my memory of him because

1:02:53

I was really on the inside of it. It

1:02:56

reminds me of my friend Chris who

1:02:58

started the show with me and who died and

1:03:00

he wanted to

1:03:03

have a legacy in recovery

1:03:05

and he wound up having it. It

1:03:08

just wasn't the way he had planned. Not

1:03:10

the way he planned. But still both of

1:03:12

them probably saved so

1:03:14

many people's lives in

1:03:16

their action both right and wrong. Yeah,

1:03:18

including mine. I mean that's another thing.

1:03:21

I mean he's the guy who brings my Eskimo as a

1:03:23

part of the bad term but that's the term we used

1:03:25

to use. My Inuit

1:03:27

died. Oh it's not that term because Eskimo is

1:03:29

not a good term anyway. People don't like that.

1:03:32

But he was the guy who brought me in. That's

1:03:34

the old term for that. Why was

1:03:36

it termed, I mean we can

1:03:38

say Inuit if that's more correct. I'd

1:03:40

better. But

1:03:43

why was it termed that? What

1:03:45

Eskimo? Why even

1:03:47

this figure from the north who's

1:03:49

an Inuit? Why was that

1:03:51

the person that said? I think it meant like

1:03:53

guide through the frozen wilderness. Like Sherpa. Yes,

1:03:56

exactly. Which is also I think not okay anymore either.

1:03:58

What's the right word for Sherpa? But

1:04:01

I have a feeling I don't know what

1:04:03

it is. That's amazing. But yeah,

1:04:05

yeah, no, he was my pioneer.

1:04:07

Sure, no, I like it. I have a

1:04:09

friend who calls me her Eskimo. I should

1:04:11

tell her that it's not the right word.

1:04:14

I mean, you know, I feel very valued

1:04:16

in that role though. Well, yeah, it is

1:04:18

a nice thing to be for someone. Maybe

1:04:20

the word isn't, but whatever that is,

1:04:23

I was it from my wife in

1:04:25

the Alana program. Well, it's

1:04:28

amazing when you can, I mean, it's

1:04:30

also time and place. Like when you say

1:04:32

something or Matthew said something to

1:04:34

you and you were like, fuck, I need to

1:04:36

do this. Yeah, you know, it's you can't arrange

1:04:38

it. It's a magical kind of

1:04:43

confluence of things that happens. Yeah,

1:04:45

you know. And you've worked with,

1:04:48

I mean, I've been, I was kind of going

1:04:50

through your career a little bit and I'm

1:04:52

like, there are these very

1:04:54

famous people that you've worked with that have died. Yeah,

1:04:57

that's your Matthew, Philip Seymour

1:04:59

Hoffman, Robin Williams.

1:05:01

Yeah. And celebrity

1:05:04

death around addiction and mental health

1:05:07

and I guess,

1:05:09

and poor Robin Williams was so sick.

1:05:11

Yeah. He had a Louis body.

1:05:13

Yeah. And my father-in-law has

1:05:15

a Louis body. Is that right? Yeah, he

1:05:18

has it so bad. And my father-in-law, when

1:05:21

he was just losing his mind, he

1:05:23

said, I wish I could die. Yeah.

1:05:25

So when Robin Williams died, it wasn't,

1:05:27

you know what I mean? I understand

1:05:29

that thing. But as a friend, and

1:05:31

I have friends who have died, obviously,

1:05:33

is it different when

1:05:35

they're celebrities? What

1:05:37

do you mean by different? Is it different? I mean,

1:05:40

they're your friend, but for you, the

1:05:42

fact that they were in the public

1:05:45

eye, does that change the

1:05:47

impact of their death in any way? I

1:05:50

guess it does because I know who they are.

1:05:52

No, I think, look,

1:05:54

Matthew and I were like brothers, you

1:05:57

know, not For the

1:05:59

entire, But. We were

1:06:01

like brothers for solid decade black

1:06:03

clothes and we were very, very

1:06:05

close friends. So that hit

1:06:08

me. Like that. Whether

1:06:11

he was famous are not that would have

1:06:13

felt that way. Robin I

1:06:15

knew and I loved him, but we were

1:06:17

really close friends. You. Know. And.

1:06:19

So have been I got him didn't known I

1:06:22

never really worked with him. he worked with my

1:06:24

ex wife on Twister she was in. Then along

1:06:26

came Pie by guess you didn't you to Sweden

1:06:28

Young to get I read with Zoe word really

1:06:30

working to get we were the same film but

1:06:33

and as I guess yourself fairly well because I

1:06:35

was a very long shoot down and Oglala and

1:06:37

I was down there all the time and we

1:06:39

hung out a bunch of gotten like him very

1:06:42

much but these are just people. I was friendly

1:06:44

with. And I think

1:06:46

like everybody else. But.

1:06:48

I didn't know them but I've was

1:06:51

bought by with Robin in and fill

1:06:53

Hoffman I was more him impacted by

1:06:55

though the loss of the national treasure

1:06:58

aspect like everybody else like oh god.

1:07:00

Why? The somebody so gifted gone.

1:07:03

You. Know why didn't they value themselves

1:07:05

as much as we all did

1:07:07

candidates? And that's just the nature

1:07:09

of losing the battle with addiction

1:07:11

in general. He a just happened

1:07:13

to be on this platform where

1:07:15

it affects. The. Masses and

1:07:18

the conversation around addiction and

1:07:20

recoveries whereas like when. Whoever.

1:07:22

In the Dopey Nation Dies, nobody knows

1:07:25

about it. It's just another number and

1:07:27

it's a tragic Lawson's as tragic, but

1:07:29

when it's a famous. When.

1:07:31

It's a Philip Seymour Hoffman like that. Story

1:07:33

was like. Was it was

1:07:35

very. Much. Like a

1:07:37

story from Dopey You know. Again, like

1:07:40

an end. And it's

1:07:42

a shock. That. This

1:07:44

brilliant actor artist sick

1:07:46

came or succumbed to

1:07:48

heroin addiction. Yeah, I

1:07:51

mean you know it is funny. Actors

1:07:54

Famous actors think they tend to be

1:07:56

like icons for folks you project upon

1:07:58

them. You know they. They. an

1:08:00

archetype in a certain way. And

1:08:04

Matthew was just that

1:08:06

funny, whatever, the

1:08:08

funniest, whatever, pecs bad boy,

1:08:10

the impish kind of, there's

1:08:13

some comedy god that he embodies for sure.

1:08:16

And Phil Hoffman's same, not same comedy

1:08:19

way, but man, what

1:08:21

an iconic artist. We

1:08:23

all project a lot onto them, and we all kind of

1:08:26

need them. They play out stories

1:08:28

for us. It's cathartic.

1:08:31

They're almost like shamans. It's cathartic

1:08:33

watching them. We feel with them.

1:08:36

So there's a parallel. Matthew Perry

1:08:38

brought me in to recovery. And he became

1:08:40

my recovery buddy, especially the first year. And

1:08:42

he was the person I relied on. And

1:08:44

I was so fortunate that I had Matthew

1:08:46

Perry, one of the funniest human beings on

1:08:48

the planet, to cheer me up.

1:08:51

Also, he liked somebody that you loved. Somebody

1:08:53

that I loved. But the truth is, much

1:08:55

like these, we see these iconic figures play

1:08:57

out on the screen. But we

1:08:59

all have them in our lives. We all

1:09:01

have our own personal Matthew and Robin and

1:09:03

Phil Hoffman. And in recovery,

1:09:05

you'll find people who will be

1:09:07

superstars like that to you in

1:09:10

your journey. And

1:09:12

when they go, it's a tremendous loss.

1:09:15

Absolutely. And that's my favorite

1:09:18

part of the op-ed piece, is that when

1:09:20

you wrote that Matthew was

1:09:23

Matthew Perry to everybody else, but he was

1:09:25

the guy in program

1:09:28

that was your brother. And that if you go

1:09:30

into program, you're going to find your version. Exactly.

1:09:32

And like, what a- That's a much more concise

1:09:34

way of saying what I just said. But yes,

1:09:36

you'll find your guy. It was also what you

1:09:38

were saying, I thought, was also just about how

1:09:41

bigger than life they were in our

1:09:44

culture. And I think that

1:09:46

that's like, it's worth noting. What about

1:09:48

like comics and addiction

1:09:50

in general? Like

1:09:53

Robin was a horrible addict and was

1:09:56

an amazing comedian or Chris Farley or

1:09:58

John Belushi or that. style.

1:10:00

Have you ever thought about that

1:10:04

kind of archetype of

1:10:06

self-hating, funny person? Yeah, I mean

1:10:08

that's definitely an archetype. There's

1:10:10

a lot of them around. I remember

1:10:12

I did stand up briefly in LA

1:10:15

when I was very young. I had

1:10:17

already been an actor and I remember noting

1:10:19

I would go up like two,

1:10:21

three times a week at the Comedy Store. It wasn't very good

1:10:23

but I... I heard you talk about

1:10:26

it on Stern how much you thought you were a

1:10:28

terrible stand-up. I wasn't very good. I just started learning

1:10:30

and then I stopped because I got

1:10:32

an opportunity to go into an acting class and started getting some

1:10:34

acting roles and figured out. I think I'm better at that. But

1:10:38

I remember noting that, boy, comedians, at

1:10:41

least the ones I'm observing seem to

1:10:43

make actors seem like secure, calm, happy

1:10:45

people. Right. You know, it

1:10:47

was really... Especially that Comedy Store vibe

1:10:50

was kind of dark. So

1:10:52

I'm going to have much out of a huge sample size.

1:10:54

I don't know if it's true today but artists

1:10:58

in general. I often talk with other

1:11:00

actors. One of my pet-like

1:11:03

curiosities is if

1:11:06

my childhood were more loving

1:11:08

and warm and nurturing and

1:11:10

connected, would I be as good

1:11:12

an actor? Would I have

1:11:14

achieved as much? Would you have the same places

1:11:16

to be able to access because you learned to

1:11:19

access it because you didn't have this thing growing

1:11:21

up? Yeah, I think the answer might be no.

1:11:23

I think I would have always loved mimicking

1:11:25

things and I would have always been like the

1:11:28

funny guy at parties and class clown

1:11:30

and I probably would have enjoyed

1:11:32

some healthy version of, I'm going to do

1:11:34

the community theater production of Guys and Dolls

1:11:36

and it's going to be great. I'll invite

1:11:38

the whole family. I don't know that I would

1:11:41

have, like you said, had enough

1:11:43

depth maybe based

1:11:45

on some suffering to

1:11:48

present to the world and also I don't know that I

1:11:50

would have been driven to be

1:11:53

noticed by the world if

1:11:56

I had a more connected

1:11:58

and secure base. shall we

1:12:00

say. Well Batman wouldn't have become Batman

1:12:02

if his parents weren't killed in crime

1:12:04

alley and John Lennon would never have

1:12:06

been John Lennon if his mother wasn't

1:12:08

killed and father left him. Did that

1:12:10

the stuff that makes good stuff? I

1:12:12

guess it's true. I guess it's true.

1:12:14

With great power comes great responsibility so

1:12:16

says another Queens native. Yes

1:12:19

the Farshal's native. Actually Peter Parker. Have you

1:12:21

ever identified with Peter Parker being... do you

1:12:23

think he was Jewish? No. Parker?

1:12:25

I do not think so. Irish? I

1:12:27

don't know. Irish Queen's guy? I don't know but

1:12:29

I know that I loved Spider-Man as a kid

1:12:32

that was so happy he was from my hometown.

1:12:34

They did a really good job of

1:12:36

bringing New York City like DC made

1:12:38

a mistake of not using real places.

1:12:41

Yeah. Marvel was very very smart. Today

1:12:43

had a genius run those guys. I mean

1:12:46

that whole Marvel Universe that

1:12:48

made like those 20 movies were

1:12:51

incredible. Now this is how stupid I am. When

1:12:55

you came on last time the only

1:12:57

thing I wanted to talk to you

1:12:59

about was the movie Homegrown and we

1:13:01

never talked about it and I've watched

1:13:04

the movie Homegrown probably as many times

1:13:06

as anyone in the world has seen

1:13:08

it. Wow I did not know that.

1:13:10

It's a star-studded stoner. A lot of

1:13:12

good actors in that. Yeah. Yeah. And

1:13:14

like was there a lot of weed

1:13:16

smoking on the set of Homegrown? No.

1:13:19

No. The

1:13:21

opposite at least for me. I was

1:13:25

so in my uptight unrecovered

1:13:28

Al-Anon we got

1:13:30

to control everything and make a good

1:13:32

project here mode to the

1:13:34

point where there's a really funny

1:13:37

story about Billy Bob on that movie with me.

1:13:39

He had just come off

1:13:41

a sling blade. I think it might have been the

1:13:43

first thing he did after that tremendous success and

1:13:46

Brian Phillipi and I and like

1:13:48

I say I had just come off the birdcage

1:13:51

so we were all sort of up and coming you know and

1:13:54

I was so nervous about parlaying that

1:13:56

success I had into something else. Oh

1:14:00

God. And I just was

1:14:02

very uptight. And I tried to be nice

1:14:04

and polite, and I pretty much was. But

1:14:07

all that phase of work, I felt so much

1:14:09

fresh with David that I was kind of miserable.

1:14:12

And you mentioned John Lennon. Working

1:14:15

with Billy Bob, we all got along really well. And

1:14:17

I enjoyed him very much. And

1:14:21

I came on set one day and he said, I

1:14:23

can't do a very good Billy Bob impression, but he said, you

1:14:25

know, I had a dream about you last night. I

1:14:27

said, you did? Yeah, I dreamt that we

1:14:31

were sitting out on a porch. And

1:14:34

John Lennon came to us and

1:14:37

was playing acoustic guitars, playing his songs

1:14:39

for us. And

1:14:42

you kept talking over every song. And

1:14:45

I was like, can you just shut up

1:14:47

and we can listen to the ghost of

1:14:49

John Lennon, play his greatest hits now, please?

1:14:52

I was like, huh. And I

1:14:54

took that in about 30 seconds later, I said,

1:14:57

Billy Bob, do you

1:14:59

think that dream means you're kind of getting

1:15:01

a little annoyed at me, a little annoyed

1:15:03

at my kind of constant. Neuroses?

1:15:06

Yeah, over getting things right and

1:15:08

fussing over the material. And he

1:15:11

took a brief pause and really thought about

1:15:13

it and not unkindly went, yeah,

1:15:15

I think that might be it. He

1:15:18

was cool though? Totally cool. What did

1:15:20

you do with that? I took it in,

1:15:22

I said, denoted. I tried to tamp

1:15:24

it down. I took it as like a lesson of like, I gotta reign

1:15:26

that shit in. But it wasn't until

1:15:29

years later that I actually really did, but I

1:15:32

kind of was more mindful of it

1:15:34

on that set. Now as an

1:15:36

idiot stoner, which I'm very comfortable

1:15:38

in that role, that

1:15:40

movie is star studded beyond star

1:15:42

studded. It's you, Billy

1:15:44

Bob Thornton, Laura Dern, Ryan

1:15:47

Felipe, fucking Ted Danson, Ted

1:15:49

Danson, John Lithgow, Jamie Lee

1:15:51

Curtis. Why? I

1:15:54

figured they were all just getting high, but they weren't,

1:15:56

were they? No, no, no. I thought it was like

1:15:58

an opus for weed, but it wasn't. What was

1:16:00

that? Jake Gyllenhaal's dad, Stephen Gyllenhaal, directed

1:16:02

it and wrote it. And he put

1:16:05

together, is he a stoner? He

1:16:07

was a very, he's a very good director. He

1:16:10

had a lot of success and

1:16:12

he really, really, really was passionate

1:16:14

about this movie and made

1:16:16

it on a very small budget and

1:16:19

really pestered CAA to

1:16:21

support it by casting it like that.

1:16:23

And they did, you know,

1:16:26

and he had worked with a lot of those folks before,

1:16:28

I think, and everybody

1:16:30

kind of did a favor for Stephen.

1:16:33

So that's why. So that's why. Yeah. And

1:16:35

like, am I the only person that you've

1:16:37

ever really come across that has been so

1:16:39

interested in homegrown? Yeah, it's

1:16:41

rare. Occasionally here

1:16:43

and there, just on the

1:16:45

street, whatever, but no, never in an interview have

1:16:48

I discussed it. Nobody at peoplehood was asking you

1:16:50

about homegrown. And I was just waiting for it.

1:16:52

I actually just saw a bit of it again.

1:16:56

And I thought it was

1:16:58

not bad. It's fantastic. It's

1:17:00

a fantastic movie. I remember

1:17:03

like it was at the end of the summer

1:17:05

and Joe shrank had put us together. And,

1:17:08

uh, I was in Utah

1:17:10

for the, the park city song summit and

1:17:12

you were like, can you talk? And I

1:17:14

was like, yeah. And you were like, I'm

1:17:17

not going to do your show. Yeah. I have

1:17:19

to pass. And I said, why, why? And

1:17:21

you said your show is really crazy. And

1:17:24

I don't know that I can do it. Well,

1:17:26

I just didn't think that I wanted to contribute.

1:17:28

First of all, I don't have stories like your

1:17:30

guests have. You had just heard like a story

1:17:32

in England. I had a bunch. Right. And I

1:17:34

was like, I don't have stories like that. And

1:17:36

also to go, I thought I'd have

1:17:39

to go mining for like the worst things I did

1:17:41

when I was the most possible way since I

1:17:43

didn't really want to do that. Right. Right. And then

1:17:45

we talked it through and you were like, I'm in

1:17:47

ACA. And I was like, well, we've never done a show

1:17:49

like that. Let's do it. And then you took a leap

1:17:52

of faith. Yeah. And look at the

1:17:54

beauty that's come of it. And it's

1:17:56

been a very nice story. Yes. Exactly. You don't

1:17:58

see, I see like it's our. It's our

1:18:00

version of Homegrown. It's just this great victory.

1:18:04

Sure, I'll give you that. Thank you. It's

1:18:06

kind of a low bar, but sure. No, it is.

1:18:09

It's a very important weed superstar movie. Now,

1:18:11

I have a game we can play. A

1:18:13

game? We can play a game or you

1:18:15

can tell me how was work. It is

1:18:17

an annoying question. You want the annoying question?

1:18:19

Whatever. You can get the annoying question out

1:18:21

of it. Throw me whatever you want. How

1:18:23

is working with Woody Allen? Well,

1:18:26

that was a very brief experience for me. Why?

1:18:29

Because you weren't just... I was only on

1:18:31

the... I was in celebrity. I only did

1:18:33

like three days on it. So I barely...

1:18:35

It wasn't Woody enough. It wasn't Woody enough.

1:18:37

It wasn't like... It was a minor role

1:18:39

and I wasn't like... I really got in

1:18:42

there with him and had the Woody

1:18:44

Allen experience. But it

1:18:47

was fascinating. I was a tremendous Woody fan. So

1:18:49

just to be a part of it was a

1:18:51

big thrill for me. You

1:18:54

ever see him around here? I haven't. Not in years.

1:18:56

You used to see him around though? You'd see him

1:18:58

in New York every once in a while. I wouldn't

1:19:00

like hang with him. I never like... Hey Woody, I

1:19:02

guess he... No, I was. I worked for the once.

1:19:04

Maybe. But you know, I do

1:19:07

have an interesting... I have

1:19:09

an interesting Woody Allen story, but it's very triggering. Not

1:19:12

because of any of the untoward

1:19:15

stuff that he's

1:19:17

associated with now. Triggering him. Just

1:19:21

mentioning him or doing an impression of him

1:19:23

like triggers people. People don't really... Not in

1:19:25

dopey land. Well, that's an...

1:19:27

There's a lesson in this story. Okay, good.

1:19:29

For artists. We need lessons. It's

1:19:31

a good story too. So I was shooting The Birdcage. I

1:19:34

just told the story yesterday. It came up with

1:19:37

Diane Wiest. She was one of the amazing people

1:19:39

in that and she had just won the Oscar

1:19:41

for Woody's Bullets Over Broadway. And

1:19:43

I said, how was that experience? Similar to you

1:19:45

just asked. What was it like working with Woody?

1:19:47

And she said, oh God. It

1:19:51

was crazy because I asked

1:19:53

Woody like two weeks into shooting, how's it

1:19:55

looking? And Woody said, good.

1:20:02

It's not good. She said, what do you mean?

1:20:04

Is it the whole movie or just me? She

1:20:06

said, no, just you. Just you are working.

1:20:11

She's like, why? Well,

1:20:13

your voice is very high.

1:20:15

My voice is scratching right now. So it's

1:20:18

not a good one. It's not my best.

1:20:20

It's a good one. It's a little gravelly

1:20:22

today. But your voice is too high and

1:20:24

you know, Jennifer Tilly is doing it. Her

1:20:27

voice is high and that's working. So I

1:20:30

don't know. She said,

1:20:32

well, should we reshoot?

1:20:34

Probably we should. And he tends

1:20:37

to reshoot a lot. So

1:20:39

he did and she lowered her

1:20:41

voice. If you remember. Yeah, yeah, she

1:20:43

did a really speed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:20:45

And she won the Oscar. Yeah, he

1:20:47

knew what he was doing. So, okay,

1:20:49

that's an interesting story. The

1:20:51

companion story to it is

1:20:54

years later. I'm at

1:20:56

the Cannes Film Festival. I think it's

1:20:58

pronounced Cannes. Cannes is out there for

1:21:01

you. Thank you. I'm chatting with Mira

1:21:03

Sorvino, who had just won the Oscar

1:21:05

for Woody's Mighty Aphrodite. And

1:21:07

in that film, her voice was very, very,

1:21:09

very high. In fact, she sounded

1:21:12

like Miss Piggy. She played a prostitute

1:21:14

with a heart of gold and won

1:21:16

the Oscar. And unsolicited,

1:21:19

she told me this, so what was that like?

1:21:22

She said, well, about two weeks in the shooting,

1:21:24

maybe a week, Woody knocked

1:21:26

on my trailer door and said, so

1:21:29

listen, it's not working. And

1:21:31

she said, what, the movie or me? No, you, you're

1:21:34

a pot. What's the matter? Well,

1:21:37

your voice, I don't think it works, the

1:21:39

voice. It's very high and silly. And

1:21:42

she cried and thought about it

1:21:44

and through lunch

1:21:47

and came out and said, you know what, I believe in

1:21:49

it. I think it really will work. I understand how you

1:21:51

feel that way, but I want to stick with

1:21:53

it. And she won the Oscar. And

1:21:55

why I love that story as

1:21:57

an artist, and it relates to this Michelangelo.

1:22:00

low thing because all you have is your

1:22:02

inner compass after a while. So one day

1:22:04

Woody Allen could walk up to you on

1:22:06

a set and this is meaningful to actors

1:22:08

and say change your voice and if you

1:22:10

do it, if you listen to him, you

1:22:12

will win the Oscar. And on

1:22:14

another day and another Friday Woody Allen walks up to

1:22:16

you and says no, no, change your character voice. If

1:22:19

you don't listen to him, you'll win

1:22:21

the Oscar. You never know which it's going

1:22:23

to be. You can only just trust what

1:22:25

your own instinct

1:22:28

is telling you. Well I think that's really,

1:22:30

really valuable for recovery too. Of course it

1:22:32

is. Because like when your sponsor gives you

1:22:34

a suggestion, just because your sponsor gives you

1:22:36

a suggestion doesn't mean it's the right suggestion.

1:22:39

Exactly. Exactly. So look at

1:22:41

that. You were not in a lot of celebrity

1:22:43

but that question really resonated. It did. Really

1:22:46

resonated. Well it's a good, I love that story.

1:22:48

It's a good and terrible. And

1:22:50

that's why I'm the greatest addiction recovery interviewer in

1:22:52

the game. I hear the greatest one I know.

1:22:55

Thank you. Let's play the game. Alright, what's the

1:22:57

game? This or that? And you're not going to

1:22:59

enjoy that. Can I do it as Jim Brockmeyer?

1:23:01

You can do it however you like. Jim Brockmeyer

1:23:03

lends himself to playing games. Now I don't want

1:23:06

you to think too much. I just want you

1:23:08

to answer. And then you're going to

1:23:10

think, you're an overthinker. So you're probably. I'll try

1:23:12

not to overthink. This or that. Carmelo

1:23:15

Anthony or Jalen Brunson? Brunson.

1:23:17

Mo or Chief Wiggum? Mo. Is

1:23:20

Mo over everybody? Probably.

1:23:22

Cletus? Yeah. Okay.

1:23:25

Coke or booze? Ooh,

1:23:28

toss up. Booze, I guess. Booze over

1:23:30

Coke? Because I couldn't handle the Coke physically. This

1:23:33

is Brockmeyer or you? Both of

1:23:35

us. Okay, good. Homer or Marge? Homer.

1:23:38

Elvis Costello or Bruce Springsteen? Ooh.

1:23:42

That is sophist choice, man hammer. Do

1:23:44

you think that Brockmeyer likes Elvis Costello?

1:23:46

I don't see him liking you. I'm

1:23:48

not answering as me, but I'm using

1:23:50

Brockmeyer's voice. Can we use Sea Captain's

1:23:52

voice now? Sure. I

1:23:55

would have to go Bruce, but it breaks

1:23:57

me heart. Really? Well, yeah, because it's... He's

1:24:00

more of a long-town boy and

1:24:02

I'm more related to Bruce, although

1:24:04

man, it's 1 and 1a. I

1:24:07

saw Elvis Costello on the street. You did? Have you ever

1:24:09

seen him on the street? I've chatted with him many times.

1:24:11

And he was not happy to talk to me on the

1:24:13

street. No. I'm a weirdo. It's hard to deal with me.

1:24:16

I'm just coming up to folks to fix them out. How does it work for

1:24:18

you? I now, if

1:24:21

you come to me on the street, I'm lovely and warm

1:24:23

and we'll chat with you. I used to be a little

1:24:25

more uptight. When was your- I told

1:24:27

you about this whole journey I went on. Didn't

1:24:29

I? Maybe, but I don't remember anything. Didn't I

1:24:31

do it in the last podcast? May, that was

1:24:33

months ago. My smile project, whatever you call it.

1:24:35

I don't think so. I'm sorry about that? I

1:24:37

don't think so. It's a recovery story. I told

1:24:39

you about another podcast. Well, not as renowned as

1:24:41

mine. Not as renowned as yours. This

1:24:44

is more like the homegrown of podcasts. Yes. And

1:24:47

those were more like, say, the Godzilla of podcasts. Yeah,

1:24:49

so that makes sense. You're

1:24:51

referring to Dax Shepard, I assume. No, no, now, now,

1:24:54

no, no. Okay. Dax

1:24:57

and I, we both were in recovery together in LA. We both

1:24:59

were in the- Dax is one of the many people

1:25:01

who have ignored me through the years. Ignored you. Ignored

1:25:03

me. You've asked him to come on the show and

1:25:06

he's ignored you. Yes. Multiple. Well, he's got his own

1:25:08

thing. He's got his own thing. Yeah. He has one

1:25:10

thing. In fact, when he

1:25:12

did that whole- he relapsed and he did that

1:25:14

whole story about his relapse and admitting

1:25:16

it and whatever, and I think I wrote his producer

1:25:18

and I said, well, why doesn't he come on Dopey

1:25:20

and tell his story? And he said, well, he already

1:25:23

did it on his show. Well, but that

1:25:25

is kind of true. Of course it's true. Yes. But

1:25:27

I, you know, what about me? Exactly. Yeah. He

1:25:30

did not consider that at all. No, he didn't. How's

1:25:33

this going to affect Mannheim? No, he didn't. All right,

1:25:35

let me hear this one. What would Mannheim do? Exactly.

1:25:39

Oh, so this is recovery

1:25:41

related, very much so. In fact,

1:25:43

it's dead on. But

1:25:46

it's Alan on recovery. I don't know what you would call this.

1:25:48

I moved back to New York 10 years ago. I love it

1:25:50

here. I love walking the streets here.

1:25:52

But I found that, you know, in LA, I

1:25:55

was much less come up to in

1:25:57

the street because you're just more isolated in LA.

1:26:00

car, you're in your house, nobody, you see more

1:26:02

people literally walking down the block in Manhattan than

1:26:04

you would in a month in LA perhaps. That's

1:26:07

not an exaggeration. So I

1:26:11

was getting a little cranky around people coming

1:26:13

up to me. I was getting very, I

1:26:15

tried to be polite, I tried to be

1:26:17

rude to people, although a couple of times

1:26:19

people called me out, they didn't agree with

1:26:21

my assessment of what my rudeness level. And

1:26:26

it was becoming a spiritual problem because I love

1:26:28

this city and I love walking the city. You're

1:26:30

from Queens. Yes, and it became

1:26:33

unmanageable as we say because every day

1:26:35

I was starting to dread these

1:26:38

encounters and I was getting

1:26:40

so cranky and

1:26:42

I actually worked the steps around it,

1:26:44

like my irritability around that, like what

1:26:47

am I going to do? And

1:26:49

what I got to was that the

1:26:52

phrase that kept coming up as I talked about it and

1:26:54

wrote about it was put upon. I feel very put upon.

1:26:57

And Phil Stutz, my beloved

1:26:59

shrink who Jonah held in

1:27:01

a movie about, who talked like this, he

1:27:04

used to call that moment, he calls it

1:27:06

for celebrities, the moment of being recognized. He

1:27:09

says, yeah, that's the double fuck you. The

1:27:12

first fuck you is somebody wants something from you.

1:27:15

And the second fuck you is it's not really you

1:27:17

they want it from, it's just this idea that

1:27:19

they have of who you are. It's

1:27:21

like, well, that's fair enough. I might explain why

1:27:24

I'm cranky about it, but it still doesn't excuse

1:27:26

it and it's not, it

1:27:29

doesn't help it. You know what I mean?

1:27:31

And it's something not right about it, you know? So,

1:27:33

but he was right. Put

1:27:36

upon. As I started, I realized

1:27:38

that as a child, that's how

1:27:40

I felt a lot. I just genuinely,

1:27:42

my parents were loving wonderful people

1:27:45

in many ways, but I don't think they

1:27:47

really knew who I was. And

1:27:49

I don't think, and they wanted things from

1:27:51

me that I don't think,

1:27:54

I actually didn't want to give. And I didn't think

1:27:56

were right for me. And

1:27:58

that was created a lot of. attention for

1:28:01

me growing up. And eventually, it's why I

1:28:03

led to being drinking

1:28:06

and using my time when I was 14, 15 years

1:28:08

old. That was one of many factors. So

1:28:10

this put upon, but

1:28:13

the idea of you want something from me, and it's

1:28:15

not even me you want it from, but

1:28:17

your idea of me was a tremendous

1:28:19

trigger for me. And once

1:28:22

I unlocked it and realized, the

1:28:24

guy on the street who just doesn't

1:28:26

know what movie he last saw me in, or

1:28:29

doesn't quite know my name, or thinks he went

1:28:31

to Ohio State with me because he doesn't remember

1:28:33

where he saw me, it's not my

1:28:35

dad who didn't really get who I

1:28:38

was. It's not the same thing. And

1:28:42

I started just smiling. I

1:28:44

started just, we call it contrary action

1:28:46

in program. Stutz would

1:28:49

call it a reverse indicator. So

1:28:53

I just started smiling at folks when

1:28:55

they came up, even though in my

1:28:57

head I was thinking, oh,

1:29:00

god, not another one of these fucking things. I don't think I

1:29:02

can deal with it right now. And I

1:29:04

was like Pavlov's dog after not very long,

1:29:07

like less than a few weeks.

1:29:10

Your body doesn't know the difference between a fake

1:29:12

smile and a real one. I started actually, first

1:29:14

of all, discovered in a rather humbling way that

1:29:20

that's all people really wanted, just

1:29:22

a smile and a brief acknowledgment. They're

1:29:24

kind of happy they saw an actor say,

1:29:27

what is the big, effing deal? And

1:29:31

top of that, I started almost

1:29:33

enjoying the encounter. I'm

1:29:35

actually giving people a little bit of joy.

1:29:38

In this world we live in, I felt

1:29:41

like Scrooge on Christmas morning. I

1:29:43

could have given people this little bit

1:29:45

of joy for the last 20 years

1:29:47

and I haven't been doing it. And Scrooge

1:29:50

was so happy when he did that. Exactly.

1:29:52

It's like service. Totally like service.

1:29:54

So the thing I realized was that moment's

1:29:56

not about me. If I'm looking for what

1:29:58

I'm going to get, from it. It may not

1:30:00

be much but if I look at it like, well what can I

1:30:03

give you if it was just letting you know

1:30:05

the name of the movie you know me from or whatever,

1:30:08

why not do that? And amazingly

1:30:10

enough, giving that I've

1:30:12

gotten back like a million people. I

1:30:14

enjoy it so much. It unlocked a

1:30:16

whole world for me. That's

1:30:18

recovery. That's what we never imagine is

1:30:21

in store for us when we stop

1:30:23

drinking, you know, or stop nagging somebody

1:30:25

else to drink. It's like if

1:30:28

you are open to how you

1:30:30

might have the problem might be you

1:30:33

and if you make an adjustment in your attitude and

1:30:35

your outlook and you get a lot more grateful the

1:30:39

whole world opens up. Like you said, now

1:30:41

I didn't, if you asked me 10 years

1:30:43

ago what's the solve for this problem?

1:30:45

Like well everybody leave me alone. No,

1:30:48

that's change, that's not life on life's terms.

1:30:50

What changed was me, you

1:30:52

know. Because that's all you can change. You

1:30:54

can't change how new you know perceives you or

1:30:56

what a stranger is gonna do. But you know

1:30:58

almost still be a jerk-off but then you're gonna

1:31:01

feel even worse. It's terrible or just try to

1:31:03

avoid, if you try to avoid people that's like

1:31:05

a magnet. Right. If you're open and like who

1:31:07

wants to say hi people are just kind of

1:31:09

calm around you, you know. Well it's

1:31:11

like John Lennon was right here, you know

1:31:14

he lived like four blocks away. Right and

1:31:16

in those famous scenes like of

1:31:18

him walking around the neighborhood he'd just be like

1:31:20

what's up and just keep walking and he acted

1:31:23

like he liked it. Right. He's fucking John Lennon,

1:31:25

you know. I don't know whether he acted like

1:31:27

he liked it or he really did. All I

1:31:29

know is I've come, I've gratefully come to places

1:31:31

where I really do like it. Look at Kate,

1:31:34

rarely you're having a rough moment. You're

1:31:36

really for or you're late and

1:31:38

you're rushing or whatever it is you just don't

1:31:40

have time. But

1:31:43

I you know that's actually pretty rare. Most of

1:31:45

the time how hard is it to give somebody

1:31:47

15 seconds. And be cool because and then the

1:31:49

value like I talk about at meetings all the

1:31:51

time like and

1:31:53

I don't know if this is good or not but I always say if

1:31:56

because I've never been comfortable

1:31:59

with the idea of being

1:32:01

being ultra-spiritual or ultra-altruistic. So

1:32:04

I learned like if

1:32:06

I am spiritual and altruistic, I can

1:32:08

feel better and it's okay. I don't

1:32:10

mind doing service with a self-interest. It's

1:32:12

selfish. Yeah. I don't mind that.

1:32:15

And this lady came up to me after the meeting and she said,

1:32:17

well, isn't it fucked up if I'm doing it for me? And

1:32:20

I said, well, if you're working out for the

1:32:22

health benefits but you wind up looking better, you're

1:32:24

still working out your muscles in the same way.

1:32:27

It's not that if you do it selfishly and

1:32:29

you're still being good to the world. I think

1:32:31

that's the key to the whole thing. Right. Because

1:32:34

the person that benefits the most is you. It's

1:32:37

such a wonderful – it's a connection. Right.

1:32:39

Can we get back to my stupid game now, please? I'm

1:32:41

sorry. I didn't know we stopped. Okay.

1:32:44

What was the – oh, we stopped on Elvis Costello being freaked

1:32:46

out by me on the street. Yes. Okay.

1:32:50

Cletus or Discos too? Cletus. Do

1:32:52

you like Discos too? I do,

1:32:55

but he's so brevity. Right. So

1:32:57

brief. It's difficult to

1:33:00

get any traction with him. Right.

1:33:03

Bart or Lisa? Lisa. Really?

1:33:06

Yeah. Okay. Gary

1:33:08

Carter or Tom Seaver? Seaver. Okay.

1:33:11

Phoebe or Monica? Phoebe. You

1:33:13

were Phoebe's boyfriend. I was, so I got to go there. Al

1:33:16

Pacino or Robert De Niro? That

1:33:20

is a tough one. That

1:33:22

is tough. You know, when I work

1:33:24

with both, I didn't work with both. I

1:33:26

don't know. I got this question. I don't know.

1:33:29

It's a little bit disrespectful. Do you have

1:33:31

a preference? You can't say. Is it too

1:33:33

much to put it on? No.

1:33:37

You like them both. I do. It's

1:33:40

one and one. You know, like,

1:33:42

for example, my three favorite movies are

1:33:45

Godfather Wanted Two and Goodfellas, whichever I've

1:33:47

seen most recently is my favorite movie.

1:33:50

And I would say that's true of Alan and

1:33:52

Bob, that whatever the last one

1:33:54

I saw. So you call Al Pacino Alan?

1:33:58

Al and. Oh, okay. No,

1:34:00

I call Bob Bob because he likes to call

1:34:02

Bob. And yeah, so no,

1:34:04

I can't. Sophie's choice on that one.

1:34:07

I feel like those are like- You know,

1:34:09

Moe is based on Al Pacino. Young

1:34:12

Al talk like this, softer,

1:34:14

no gravel. I was doing a

1:34:17

play where I was playing a drug dealer. I did a

1:34:20

Pacino impression. I did an

1:34:22

audition for Moe like this. They

1:34:24

said we needed to be gravelly. So I

1:34:26

made it gravelly. You like Moe more than

1:34:28

anybody. That's my favorite cartoon character on

1:34:30

The Simpsons. Yes. But I

1:34:32

think that you have a feeling

1:34:35

around Moe that's way deeper. It's

1:34:37

almost like an alter ego. It's like a

1:34:39

shadow version of myself. But Moe

1:34:42

is such that he's the

1:34:44

gargoyle. That he's unlovable. Yeah, exactly.

1:34:46

He's a shadow. It's like every

1:34:49

bad thought you have about yourself. clean

1:34:55

blade boy who did a lot the way you

1:34:57

do. He said

1:34:59

that that was how that

1:35:01

started for him. It just seemed

1:35:03

that vocal expression of just

1:35:06

the worst parts of himself. And

1:35:08

he would kind of look in the mirror and

1:35:10

do that voice and he started monologuing from there.

1:35:12

And Moe sort of feels that way to me

1:35:14

sometimes. Moe is

1:35:16

so poetically beautiful. Yeah, he's a sad guy.

1:35:19

He is a beautiful guy. Okay. Adult

1:35:22

children of alcoholics or Alinones? ACA now. Beatles

1:35:26

or the Stones? Oh my goodness.

1:35:28

How dare you. It suits all the same answer.

1:35:31

Whatever the last thing I heard was. Yeah? Oh,

1:35:34

totally. You don't have a preference. I

1:35:36

go back and- you know, Zep,

1:35:40

Beatles, Stones. I can't- Really?

1:35:42

I can't decide. Okay. I

1:35:45

definitely would pick the Beatles. I

1:35:48

would say Beatles, Stones, Zep. I would.

1:35:52

It depends. Honestly, it's usually the

1:35:54

last song I heard. I'm like, oh

1:35:56

my god, this song. You can't deny it.

1:35:58

They're unbelievable. I feel you

1:36:00

with that. Workaholic or codependent?

1:36:04

What do you mean? Like which am I more of? Oh

1:36:07

my god that's a tough one. What do you like

1:36:09

more workaholism or codependency? I guess we're

1:36:12

given the horrible choice workaholism because at least

1:36:14

you're getting shit done. Okay

1:36:16

now here's the the hardest one. Frank

1:36:19

Grimes or Apu? Oh

1:36:24

I know I know like Apu has

1:36:26

traumatized you. Yeah that's the problem. Do

1:36:28

you have I mean I think before

1:36:30

the whole thing happened that you probably

1:36:32

loved Apu similarly to how you loved

1:36:34

Mo. Yeah I mean look

1:36:36

I did the character with love. Did my

1:36:38

best. You know like

1:36:40

a lot of awareness

1:36:43

in this area of social justice and

1:36:45

racial issues and equity. You

1:36:47

know intent didn't match impact

1:36:50

but intentions were good and there was a

1:36:52

lot of good in it you know and

1:36:54

I did it with a lot of love.

1:36:56

We all did. As a raw fan I

1:37:00

loved Apu and not as a

1:37:02

stereotype. I loved Apu as Apu.

1:37:06

You know as I loved

1:37:08

him. Yeah there just were baked in

1:37:10

blind spots that were had unfortunate

1:37:12

and real outcomes but I loved it

1:37:14

too. I loved the character. You know

1:37:17

I can't say I missed not doing it because

1:37:19

it was such a traumatic. It was such a

1:37:21

thing. Yeah you know and

1:37:24

I'm also I feel I truly felt

1:37:26

the right thing to do to not do it.

1:37:28

And you've learned so much from the experience and

1:37:30

you've helped so many people from having gone through

1:37:33

these things. Yeah I'm so dedicated to the social

1:37:36

justice and awareness in that area. I

1:37:38

think that story changed my life.

1:37:41

The story of what Apu

1:37:43

what happened to you through that. Oh is

1:37:46

that right? Changed my life. Totally changed the

1:37:48

way I saw the world. Because

1:37:50

of what I because of the blind spot

1:37:52

it revealed right? The blind spot it revealed

1:37:54

and the other side and hearing the other

1:37:56

side and like being open to it. Right

1:37:58

exactly. Just such an amazing. as that you

1:38:00

know and I've read that

1:38:03

Frank Grimes was the most

1:38:05

emotional difficulty you had doing

1:38:08

a voice on The Simpsons yeah that was like real

1:38:10

acting can you talk about the phenomenon of Frank Grimes

1:38:12

and then we'll be done I think

1:38:14

we just caught lightning in a bottle with that episode it

1:38:16

was you know we've done so many it was just another

1:38:18

episode it was supposed to be William H Macy

1:38:20

Bill Macy who I've worked with and

1:38:23

in my mind I wasn't doing a Bill

1:38:25

Macy vocal impression I don't think that necessarily

1:38:27

enough of the audience knows who Frank Grimes

1:38:30

was Frank Grimes is a guy I've got

1:38:32

which sees him it's a iconic episode he

1:38:34

comes to work at the nuclear plant with

1:38:37

Homer I think it's very very jealous of

1:38:39

Homer and upset that Homer's a stupid

1:38:41

idiot everything works out for nothing works

1:38:43

out for him and it was a

1:38:46

brilliant episode because it kind of represented

1:38:48

it's sort of called up like how

1:38:50

is this an iconic thing in

1:38:52

comedy where some buffoon

1:38:54

just stumbles his way and has

1:38:57

the best life sort of a

1:38:59

la Forrest Gump or you know

1:39:01

or Peter Sellers and being

1:39:03

there like how is this a thing

1:39:06

you know that everything works out for

1:39:08

the big dumb idiot and

1:39:11

Grimes just called it out over and over

1:39:13

again and sort of it got was met

1:39:15

I like called the show out it was

1:39:17

so good and and Frank Grimes ultimately dies

1:39:19

he does he dies they're gonna one episode

1:39:21

he's in exactly just immediately gone and

1:39:24

it really was working up that

1:39:26

level of vitriol and

1:39:28

in real jealousy and real emotion honest

1:39:31

you know honestly I tried

1:39:33

to do as good a job with this I

1:39:35

thought Bill Macy would was he supposed

1:39:37

to play it he was the one they wanted to do it

1:39:39

and he couldn't do it and so I sort of filled in

1:39:41

as a regular and I wanted

1:39:43

to like hold it to the standard of the

1:39:45

brilliant work he does so I just kind of

1:39:47

really got into it and they felt like it

1:39:49

was that one and and when

1:39:51

Kirk and and Luann

1:39:53

that how good they divorced yeah

1:39:56

that was the other really emotional

1:39:58

workout for me I think That

1:40:01

episode is fantastic. I didn't realize that

1:40:03

you were Dr. Nick also. Yes, I'm

1:40:05

Dr. Nick. Dr. Nick is the

1:40:07

best. Yeah, but don't do him

1:40:10

too much anymore either. He's done.

1:40:12

Pretty much. They kind of, not

1:40:14

really for any kind

1:40:16

of societal pressure reasons, but just, they sort of

1:40:18

ended up just not, they sort of ran out

1:40:20

of juice with that character a long time ago.

1:40:22

There was a chiropractor at my meeting named Nick.

1:40:25

Oh yeah. And whenever I would

1:40:27

see him I'd go, hi Dr. Nick. And

1:40:29

he never, I don't think he ever got

1:40:31

it. Hank is there, you've done it again.

1:40:33

How is this experience versus the last experience?

1:40:36

Just as good. Just as good? It wasn't quite

1:40:38

the marathon we did last time, although we've been

1:40:40

chatting for a while. Well, it wasn't the marathon

1:40:43

and it wasn't your life story, but it was

1:40:45

a lot of reflection about life, recovery, and

1:40:47

dumb shit. It was fun, is what

1:40:49

it was. Thank you, Hank. We snuck