0:00

A D C Listen

0:02

podcasts, Radio. News, music,

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and more. No

0:11

More News on Facebook. Yes this week

0:13

on download the show Facebook says it

0:15

could stop paying news publishers and that

0:17

means and into an agreement between tech

0:19

companies, news publishers and the government. Also

0:22

on the show why are you on

0:24

Mosque and the cofounder of Chat Cpt

0:26

Feuding? Plus: could Tic toc be about

0:28

to disappear for millions of phones? All

0:30

that much more coming up? This is

0:32

your guide to the wake in media

0:35

technology and culture. My name is Mark

0:37

for now and welcome to download the

0:39

show. Yesterday

0:50

it it is radio episode of Download This Or

0:52

and you'll be pleased to know that I have

0:55

to be able to me that are far more

0:57

professional than I joining us from the game for

0:59

anything podcast and friend of the show. Extraordinary. Two

1:01

things probably don't need to go together on the

1:03

radio. Welcome back to Download This I. Do

1:06

consider myself to be an extraordinary

1:08

friend. Thanks Mark! Our feels like it

1:10

should be written Glitter So an Awful Also

1:12

written in Glitter and Sparkle Pants from Capital

1:14

Brief, Journalist Danube and Boom thank you for

1:16

having me. I feel like I've been set

1:18

up for failure with this more professional than

1:20

you situation, but I'll do my best. He's

1:22

set expectations and now it's your job to me

1:24

and. We have twenty eight minutes. We have

1:26

twenty eight minutes to defy or expectations of

1:28

us. Twenty eight minutes it's probably not. Can

1:30

be filled with reading news on Facebook has

1:32

been. I. Would argue the

1:34

most. Predictable story because we kind of nice

1:36

is going to happen to walk us through

1:39

it if you if you. I used to

1:41

looking at news content on Mesa on platforms

1:43

like facebook Instagram very soon may not be

1:45

the case on her. Ah. Yes because Facebook

1:47

have come up and said hey you know

1:49

that media bargaining code that you brought in

1:51

Twenty Twenty one That was so special. Is

1:55

trailing. Sounds like medical mystery. As we are

1:58

just simply going to ignore we're not

2:00

doing that we're not interested. And so

2:02

they've said they're not going to renew

2:04

the deal with that they signed at

2:06

that time and as a result unless

2:08

the Australian government backed down such changes

2:11

their stance that to simply is not.

2:13

Going to be any news on these levels? There

2:15

is something deeply predictable about this. a throwback for

2:17

us how we got to this position the first

2:19

place Right on your side. the we had governments

2:21

and not a society where the why governments have

2:24

a say in Canada as well asking metre to

2:26

pay for the new content on the services company

2:28

is guy and there was a game of brinkmanship

2:30

were if I think like know. What I'm take

2:32

everything off but also some other things that aren't news. I

2:35

don't know why when I'm we personify Facebook.

2:37

They've become like cartoon characters, but that's where

2:39

we're at today. Inside, this was the deal

2:41

the places put in place with the deal

2:44

with I would give money essentially to media

2:46

news organizations tell me have gotten that wrong.

2:48

Ah yes, but us. Basically, it's all right.

2:50

People may recall and Twenty twenty one day

2:52

may have woken off to find that news

2:55

was mysteriously not on their face. Who pays

2:57

us? Because Facebook once this law was passed,

2:59

says look was like hey, were super not

3:01

into that the way below us it is.

3:03

If Facebook and. Google or not seem

3:06

to be making significant contributions to the

3:08

news landscapes. They will be designated. they'll

3:10

be designated under the car, which essentially

3:12

means the Treasury will oversee negotiations between

3:15

Facebook in this case and the news

3:17

media. So face, look at the moment,

3:19

pay seventy million dollars he or thereabouts

3:21

and under the code. If they're forced

3:24

to the bargaining table, it could be

3:26

many, many millions more than that. Which

3:28

is why Faces The argument is like

3:30

our Vs statistic is three percent three

3:33

percent of our engagement confirm news. Content,

3:35

we'd rather just give that up and

3:37

pay the. Question. Marks millions

3:39

of dollars. There's also the thing that

3:42

they've now saying as the say that

3:44

they can shut down use on the

3:46

services and it's. Sort. Of

3:48

okay for them so they good examples Canada

3:50

or Canada. Estimate of yeah For a while

3:53

now that has been no news on these

3:55

platforms in. Canada, Us and it seems

3:57

to be absolutely business as usual.

3:59

full these meta platforms. They simply

4:01

don't care. And that's kind of the

4:03

whole problem with these codes. At the

4:05

moment, it seems to be government,

4:08

you know, trying to champion news, which is

4:10

a great thing. But coming to these platforms

4:12

and saying, we have something extremely valuable that

4:14

you want, and we want you to pay

4:17

for it. And we're simply finding out that

4:19

it is not that valuable to these platforms.

4:22

There was a situation where, and I'd love to understand

4:24

this a bit more, where meta and

4:27

Google had given money to media organizations. And from that

4:29

job that we created, I know the ABC created a

4:31

bunch of jobs for money from

4:33

the tech companies. Where does that

4:35

sit within this arrangement? So that is actually

4:37

one of the many flaws of the news

4:39

media bargaining code is that there's very little

4:42

transparency. So the ABC and the Guardian were

4:44

among the publications to get money from these

4:46

meta and Google. And they were the only

4:48

ones who said like, hey, I think the

4:50

ABC said we're going to hire 60 rural

4:52

journalists with this money. But actually, media

4:55

publications were under no obligation to actually explain

4:57

how that money is used. So the main

4:59

beneficiaries of it are 9, 7 and News

5:02

Corp. Theoretically, that money can just go to

5:04

dividends to shareholders or like a marketing budget

5:06

or a new building. There's no actual need

5:08

for them to show everyone how that money

5:10

is being spent. So those deals are coming

5:13

to an end now? Google's deals are five

5:15

years. So that would be 2026. And Facebook's

5:17

here for three years. Facebook's just added to...

5:20

Yeah, basically. Yeah. So they're in two

5:22

fundamentally different positions, right? Because Google I

5:24

don't think anyone can argue Google for

5:27

business can thrive without linking, surfacing

5:29

news links, right? Whereas Facebook, I

5:31

think quite plausibly can say this

5:33

is way more fast than it's worth, especially in

5:35

an election year. I think the last thing they

5:37

can be bothered to deal with is another round

5:39

of like, you ruined the election. And when engagement

5:41

is as high off cat videos, it feels like

5:44

paying hundreds of millions of dollars for something that

5:46

actually don't care about is not super up their

5:48

alley. As painful as it

5:50

will be for media organizations to not

5:52

have this like cash injection they've had

5:54

for the last couple of years, certainly

5:56

from Facebook anyway. Maybe it's good that

5:58

news and tech coverage... companies are not

6:02

entwined together. In

6:04

that way? Yeah, yeah. It's a really

6:06

tricky thing because I guess it's that

6:09

ongoing conversation of what is the

6:11

role of social media.

6:14

We used to call it social networking because

6:16

it was just a platform within which we

6:18

could talk to our friends. And in that

6:21

way, it does kind of make sense to

6:23

share things with each other that we think

6:25

is important. But over time, that

6:27

has changed to social media, which is

6:29

more broadcasting. It's people blasting out

6:31

their opinions to the rest of the world

6:33

rather than just talking to their friends. And

6:36

that starts to change the culture and landscape.

6:38

And when you look at it through that

6:40

lens, you do start to say, well, the

6:43

content that's being created and put on these

6:45

platforms is a product for,

6:47

you know, Facebook or whoever, rather

6:50

than it just being people's own conversations.

6:52

And therefore, these companies

6:54

have a little bit more responsibility

6:56

over what's posted. And

6:59

that's where it starts to get hairy.

7:01

That's kind of why we've ended up

7:03

where we are. But the problem is,

7:05

right, that news isn't necessarily profitable. It's

7:09

important, but there's a divide

7:11

between important and engaging. And

7:13

these companies run off engaging. They don't

7:16

really care about importance. So I think

7:19

maybe there needs to be a shift in how

7:21

news is thought about in general and thus

7:23

who is creating news. I would also add

7:25

to that that the premise of the law

7:28

is that there's a market imbalance between the

7:30

tech companies and media companies because they're both

7:32

their business is the advertising business. So like

7:34

the premise is like, oh, well, Facebook gets,

7:37

I'm throwing a number out there, but like

7:39

40 percent of the digital advertising, whereas media

7:41

companies get 5 percent, which makes

7:44

sense, I guess. But then does that

7:46

make it Facebook's responsibility to solve that

7:48

problem or pay for news? I don't

7:51

necessarily Think so because Facebook can get

7:53

out of the news business completely and

7:55

still monopolize that or do up lies

7:57

that advertising spend. And that doesn't really.

8:00

The whole departmental. One of the questions

8:02

I have years. There are few media

8:04

organizations that really have built a business

8:06

on social media. One was it stands

8:08

out from is the daily Aws and

8:10

The Raven. It says as because they're

8:12

literally met a video early in the

8:14

wake. They pull their name presenters basically

8:16

talking about how they think they may

8:19

disappeared from these digital platforms. I get

8:21

the Legacy Media has otherwise of connecting

8:23

with audiences still digital. said newsletters excelling

8:25

six. You know there are other things

8:27

right? What about those organizations? Ones that

8:29

have. Built this. You know this whole business on

8:31

top of social. what happens to them in the

8:34

citrus. Yeah they die. They heaps die.

8:36

Hey that's because if the problem is

8:38

your then asking your audience to follow

8:40

you. To, for example your own website.

8:43

And we already know that that kind of

8:45

like quick through is fairly low. A lot

8:47

of people just read headlines, they don't necessarily

8:49

fully engage with articles and then you add

8:52

on top of that the not being subbed

8:54

that link to begin with. People are just

8:56

gonna forget Iraq in. And I think that's

8:58

a really sad thing because I do think

9:01

there's a lot of innovation and interesting, nice

9:03

voices that are able to build upon these

9:05

platforms because it gives them access to an

9:07

audience much quicker than if they're just trying

9:10

to build something in a corner that no

9:12

one's. Looking at said just needs to

9:14

be a really big shift in how

9:16

these platforms are used to begin with

9:18

and we just have been saying that

9:20

said years. Old I put just

9:22

ah, Images as

9:24

Hot Guy That's true. Damage deserves what you

9:27

listen to. It is your god. The Wake

9:29

of media technology and the culture. I guess

9:31

this week that you members and Capital Brace

9:33

and from these guides Editing: Pork sauce on

9:36

current yard box know is my name and

9:38

it was a good wakes adopted side. I

9:40

wasn't visually rich. Week if you are catching

9:43

up process Weight has been much discussion about

9:45

a picture of the Princess of Wales and

9:47

whether it has been doctored. Obviously this to

9:49

some questions as her whereabouts. He posted pics

9:52

or mother's day and forth. Must submit it

9:54

late was pulled from these agencies. We haven't

9:56

been docked it's it seems at time of

9:58

recording that it was most likely. You

10:01

know, slightly sub par photo shopping to put

10:03

out of sight myself that she's got to

10:05

it's but actually. but it comes to doctor

10:07

the image of the news. This is kind

10:10

of the very sorry glitzy tip of the

10:12

iceberg. There was a story oh is rigged

10:14

I remembered adequate, learned about the Queens and

10:16

Symphony Orchestra opposing and I think said the

10:18

cause a huge uproar as well. Yes our

10:20

our whoever runs a social media channel was

10:23

trying to get people to the matinee session

10:25

on a Saturday. or and the pro the

10:27

promotional piece of I used was like a

10:29

very clearly obviously. A I could be generated and

10:31

I guess like that that's cause a bit of a

10:33

sewer or because I think says his idea of life's

10:36

a that's money that could have gone to photographer who

10:38

you could have sought a nice image for use but

10:40

I say think a tiny does the opposite like a

10:42

kind of. The. Fired and so school

10:45

that. Six. Photography An

10:47

asshole Off artistry. To. Very

10:49

valuable because I feel like is at this

10:51

kind of shows that like if you use

10:53

a I generally generated Austria promotional materials and

10:56

is clearly I generated arts Saw a bit

10:58

of tunnels. It also just seems

11:00

like a really weird step for an

11:02

institution as the arts like guess. That

11:04

feels like the crux of where the not have the right.

11:06

Like you guys are supposed to be the

11:08

upper echelon of the odds. You're the ones

11:10

that have the suits in the champagne flutes

11:12

and you require people to be clean to

11:14

come in and see a works and then

11:16

you're using like the most, the based form

11:19

of. Up for it was

11:21

turned away from us. Screw Death

11:23

is as is a very specific.

11:25

Slot look month. That's not what

11:27

went on right now that it's

11:30

it's kind of. You expect this

11:32

sort of stuff from like that

11:34

Willie Wonka experience that happens somewhere.

11:36

All these Gov Scott yes for reference in

11:39

Scotland somebody posted an ad for like a

11:41

Willie Wonka experience I used I picked isn't

11:43

It looked like Willy Wonka and the my

11:45

got and would very much like a warehouse

11:47

with some streamers and sad very very. Sad.

11:50

That is where I see I

11:52

ought promotion China living not with

11:54

the fancy orchestras. What is funny

11:56

thing about this story but he color is

11:59

it is it's. That the bleeding edge

12:01

where we are deciding as a society

12:03

where we think I'd is acceptable were

12:05

isn't acceptable. The idea of as an

12:07

organizer a cultural organization for them to

12:09

use an itinerary demons to sell themselves

12:11

he clearly demonstrated itself to be a

12:13

boundary that we're not willing to cross

12:15

as a society which is intriguing to

12:17

me that are fully animated, I think

12:19

the real shame of role is to

12:21

fight how blatantly obviously I generated. It

12:23

is for an image that fights this

12:25

couple at at like seated at the

12:27

orchestra spritzer orchestras behind them for some

12:29

reason. In the stands and the woman has

12:31

like a little box on her like lot

12:33

for some reason. and the manager a a

12:36

tuxedo that's kind of got like some of

12:38

her dress randomly. how many ways they're just

12:40

not as yes like one of those things

12:42

where it's like how many things are wrong

12:44

with this image and eve I have to

12:46

suck with them snowy to count the singers.

12:48

and yeah I'm looking at it. I think

12:50

the woman's fingers are. Numerous

12:52

yes, yes, to to well, it's quite hot without

12:55

her fingers and his and decide this is

12:57

is to meet me counting thing is on. Radio

13:00

wanted a nice he's only got four fingers

13:02

that's what's wrong with their discrepancies. got I'd

13:04

but she's got for because science and millions

13:06

out there putting out of this particularly in

13:09

the Guardian I thought was quite interesting than

13:11

one point of with I think was was

13:13

observing is it I'd is being is increasingly

13:15

to form briefs for photographers who graphic design

13:17

is. To be honest I'm guilty doing this

13:19

I did is the other dialects I wanted

13:22

to describe something and I used I. I

13:24

kind of build a couple of elements and

13:26

than I thought assembly government and we do

13:28

is say that looks like this. And increasingly

13:30

for like when it comes to photo shoots

13:32

for like producing to have size of a

13:34

bath I'm getting. I'm

13:37

getting producers and directors and and graphic

13:39

design is send me a I versions

13:41

of myself why he visits weird like

13:43

we'd like to sit you like this

13:45

and my what is that my sets

13:47

m is that what I think block

13:50

and I'm like I say I am

13:52

in a have not met three months

13:54

are increasingly I is being used to

13:56

help the process of shooting things for

13:58

real or designing thing. For real I

14:00

guess the question is do we think

14:02

it will say they've is is an

14:04

example of of us putting a line

14:07

in the sand waiting will say that

14:09

or is it likely to says take

14:11

over? Is there a has the the

14:13

technology improves the. I think like

14:15

most things in the world, it will

14:17

come to a sort of middle grounds.

14:19

I think that there's a lot of

14:21

people who don't necessarily care something A

14:23

I am they. They don't necessarily values

14:25

the human touch in odds, they just

14:27

want to see the pretty colors and

14:30

that's fine. And I think that it's

14:32

also go to galvanize people who consider

14:34

themselves to be very imbued in the

14:36

odds and they're gonna take a strongest

14:38

odds and champion human. what's father. I

14:40

do think that you're right. The conceptual

14:42

with face is really powerful. For these

14:44

kinds of tools for people who very

14:46

admittedly don't have the skills necessarily to

14:48

create Ah, what it is they want

14:50

to create so they can easily make

14:53

an example that they can given a

14:55

brief for like, it's a lot easier

14:57

to do that than it is to

14:59

try and. Draw a storyboard is you also

15:01

can't for a number or the lord help

15:03

us when the Princess of Wales fondly work.

15:05

So how do you say I can smoke

15:07

knows what'll happen to those taxes and I

15:09

feel about I mean it is set aside

15:11

month but she put out own which is

15:14

true and it's on the recording. This recent

15:16

question doesn't ah monsieur conspiracy theorists either filter

15:18

back to the are i cannot probably doesn't

15:20

or the for the suffering over the just

15:22

a block fi specific person that was third

15:24

in his arms or if that segment of

15:26

senate retrieve the my succeeds requested bad honor

15:28

your instagram and find one with your foot

15:30

with for for ups and as well I'm

15:32

in hundred and with on his his into

15:35

science or dell My besides that you listen

15:37

to it is your got to the wage

15:39

in media technology and culture and under at

15:41

what is their feud between the cofounder of

15:43

Touchy Be T and Drink a Lot masks.

15:45

Look, I'm gonna say it every

15:47

time he comes up Mowgli because

15:49

of Elon Musks ego. ah where

15:52

he had already seekers. I suppose

15:54

I have reason to believe that

15:56

he might. I've. Been remarkably

15:58

on farm so. My, you

16:00

don't have a direct and. Even. Recently

16:02

filed a lawsuit against Open a

16:04

Ice in California saying that they

16:06

breached the sounding agreements or of

16:08

the company by the ceiling commercial

16:10

success instead of benefiting humanity. So

16:12

essentially that you said that you

16:14

were going to share your tech

16:16

with the public eye, you said

16:18

that you're going to be a

16:20

tool for the good of mankind

16:22

and guide a I into a

16:24

space where and it's righteous and

16:27

kind and instead what you've done

16:29

is taken billions of investment dollars

16:31

from big Tech. Turned it into

16:33

a for profit thing and that's not

16:35

what was discussed and agreed upon. Obviously,

16:37

I Elon Musk was a pot of

16:39

Open A I when it first started

16:42

and there are allegations that he tried

16:44

to merge the company with Tesla and

16:46

become Ceo of both and and that

16:48

he in fact supported a for profit

16:51

version of Open A I at the

16:53

time, but has since flit. Potentially.

16:56

Because the company has done very, very well

16:58

without him, he did does that back from

17:00

the company and he said that they've changed

17:02

their company values and it's not okay. So.

17:04

In other words, he just retired about same from

17:06

Star Wars where he said you were chosen one.

17:08

There was. A join

17:10

them bring balance to the fourth not leave

17:12

it in darkness. That's what a lot of to

17:15

during another new pretty much more. The difference being

17:17

that Ob One was right. Do we think that

17:19

musk. Is right. Eyes.

17:21

Are they support doesn't have self? Do

17:23

we think this summer I'm not? I'm

17:25

I think. While. Whether or

17:27

not those so are as part of

17:29

this Whole Foods are as are reduced.

17:31

Our explains open A I released a

17:34

bunch of emails that you on send

17:36

which basically contradicts everything he says remote

17:38

Molson bots that you fall into. The

17:40

fact that some like the background on

17:42

this is that this is a one

17:44

must version of events on that you

17:46

almost had a conversation with. I paged

17:48

the cofounder of Google and my twenty

17:50

fourteen says like the all stars resonance

17:52

yeah like watching the Harlem go What?

17:54

Globe trotters of money behind her arms

17:56

and in. A on sorry of the story you

17:58

on with my eyes can kill him. Pretty

18:00

bad. and my page was like asked maybe

18:02

that's not so bad because you know this

18:04

I stronger as like a it is as

18:07

to live ah and and life hate of

18:09

like you on your a humanist and like

18:11

in a bad way like racist humanists for

18:13

preferring humans that's the one must reckless and

18:16

that concession said that spurred him so Google

18:18

didn't have a monopoly on a I that's

18:20

bad A on to invest heavily in open

18:22

A I said the whole premise of that

18:24

investment was or the now the open source

18:27

it's up as might I add not know

18:29

charitable that. A non profits on

18:31

organization for research purposes to kind

18:33

of counterweight Google arm and. To.

18:36

Be sure they're definitely criticisms of open A

18:38

I about how close to their like ai

18:40

systems actually I like so for instance like

18:42

how what does the carbon impact of developing

18:45

Gb for which is only to say ah

18:47

model agree such as don't know because a

18:49

day won't tell basic information about happy to

18:51

model is how it was trying to suffer

18:53

because that find the technically trade secrets to

18:56

that is one of in of many ways

18:58

in which have been Ai has been criticised

19:00

for being too closed and like and transparency

19:02

so what Elon Musk says certainly I'm sure

19:04

there be a lot of. People begrudgingly agreeing

19:07

with him to question. Now becomes in.

19:09

In in court of law ah what

19:11

other just emails to the has of

19:14

elon musk quantities himself. And the

19:16

problem with the idea of making

19:18

it all open source publicly available

19:20

that is in that field. Exactly

19:23

countered to the idea of keeping it

19:25

safe Rights if you're kind of. It's

19:27

sort of like that in the day

19:29

where that was the Anarchists cookbook. why

19:31

didn't you could go into the deep.parts

19:33

of the internet and find a manual

19:36

that teaches you how to do all

19:38

sorts of dangerous and naughty things. And

19:40

I feel like having the keys to

19:42

the kingdom of a large language. My,

19:44

or something as powerful as Sexy to

19:46

teeth and and can be quite dangerous

19:49

of course, is a lot of computing

19:51

power that goes into it's. People don't

19:53

necessarily have access to that side

19:56

of it, but it still gives.

19:59

His movies. much away, right? So

20:01

your average person that there's zero

20:03

vetting happening. Yeah, totally. I

20:05

mean, this is a big debate in the AI kind

20:07

of community at the moment, open source versus closed source.

20:10

Because I guess like you have to choose between true

20:12

risks. The risk of open source is, as Rad just

20:14

explained, you know, anyone can get their hands on

20:16

the technology and use it for their own, for

20:18

their own ends. But the risk

20:21

of not open sourcing AI is

20:23

that four or five incredibly powerful tech

20:25

companies are the only companies that have

20:27

proper full access to the technology for

20:29

further cementing their market dominance, basically. Well,

20:32

essentially, we need is a mum. We

20:34

need a mum who oversees all

20:36

of this, who is kind and

20:39

caring, and just wants the best

20:41

for us and guides everyone towards

20:43

the light. You want Gaia from Captain Planet,

20:45

that's what you're saying. Oh, my God. Yeah. The

20:48

whole show became a really embarrassing indictment of

20:50

aging millennials. Anyway, I think a mum idea

20:52

is great. We will send that up the

20:54

chain and see how it goes. Download

20:57

the show is what you're listening to. And finally, very

20:59

quickly on the show, on the

21:01

off chance you happen to be a TikTok

21:03

obsessed person living in America listening to this,

21:06

are you about to lose access to TikTok

21:08

on her? Is the US government about to

21:10

crack down on TikTok? They have certainly

21:13

said that they are. They

21:15

are looking to pass a bill that will

21:17

ban TikTok from the US, part

21:19

of the ongoing conversation where they're

21:21

saying that TikTok is a tool

21:23

being used to scrape data from

21:26

our citizens and send it through

21:28

to the Chinese Communist Party. That

21:30

is a claim that TikTok and

21:32

their parent company, ByteDance, have very,

21:34

very strongly denied. They've said absolutely

21:36

not, but US has been quite

21:38

dogged about this. They really think

21:40

it's happening and therefore are telling

21:42

ByteDance that they have to sell TikTok

21:45

within the next six months. Otherwise, the

21:47

platform will be banned in the US.

21:51

Are they actually going to do that? Probably.

21:54

So if you recall, I

21:57

recall being in this very studio talking about when Trump issued

21:59

an executive order to ban TikTok

22:01

within 45 days. That

22:03

got held up in court and then

22:06

Biden took over and then issued an

22:08

executive order, unexecutiving ordering that. Do

22:11

you mean receding? Is that what you're doing?

22:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said,

22:15

more professional. Anyway, Trump should have written no

22:17

take backs, you know what I mean? Yeah,

22:19

yeah, yeah, rookie era. In the case of

22:21

legislation, which they seem very enthusiastic about and

22:23

which has bipartisan support, that will obviously, take

22:26

backs is a much harder on legislation as opposed

22:28

to executive order. If they vote on this, which

22:30

they will on Wednesday, it'll then go up to the

22:32

Senate. So we'll know pretty soon whether or not they

22:34

actually undo this, but it certainly seems likely.

22:37

That represents a huge,

22:39

huge upending of the

22:41

internet. Yeah, and TikTok

22:44

know that they have quite a large

22:46

user base and they are trying to

22:48

mobilize. They've put notifications pushed through on

22:50

the app, telling people to contact their

22:53

representative and basically say, hey, we

22:55

don't want this. And the kids are turning

22:57

out in force. There are many people writing

22:59

in or calling in. Whether or not that

23:02

changes anything remains to be seen because

23:04

at the end of the day, this

23:07

bill so far has resounding support and

23:09

feel a bit mean to say this,

23:11

but who really cares what a kid

23:13

who loves TikTok is saying to the

23:15

Congress people. There's ends if you need that kid

23:17

to turn out for an election in November. Yeah,

23:20

do they think that the

23:22

crossover between people using TikTok

23:25

and people voting is great enough that they need

23:27

to care about it? So we

23:29

are recording this earlier in the week because every chance

23:32

that some of this may change across the next couple

23:34

of days, but are there other outcomes

23:36

other than the, it stays

23:38

or bans, are there other outcomes which

23:40

give the US government more control or

23:42

more interventions in the process? Probably not.

23:45

So TikTok already has a thing called

23:47

Project Austin, which is about moving all

23:49

the data it collects on America. It's

23:51

170 million American users to Texas, which

23:54

is apparently not good enough for Congress.

23:56

Their intervention, this method of, We'll

23:58

hold all of your data here. Yeah so you can

24:01

have ever thought on it was no

24:03

good enough without being good gnostic. the

24:05

other option is on buys it. So

24:07

Bobby Kotick was assailed Activision Blizzard tool

24:09

like two months ago has been rumored

24:11

to be tried to raise money to

24:13

buy it possible sung by although and

24:15

that was floated monsieur China said it

24:18

would not allow that to happen. It's

24:20

not good for ticked off I'm in

24:22

in that regard to necessarily gives free

24:24

ride to the city pay he specifically

24:26

best I could appreciate. Why is a

24:28

nice and developed a hugely popular. Service

24:31

and then the only reason for to survive

24:33

as for another country to effectively hikers of

24:35

I could appreciate in that very specific window

24:37

I could appreciate why they would been objects

24:39

and than us on I I I agree

24:41

completely a my first rush into it was

24:43

like us a bit much but then you

24:45

do remember. Not give free ride to the

24:47

American government. But then you do remember that. China's.

24:50

Than Facebook and Google for like a decade now, so

24:52

it's issue on the other foot rub evidence that, like,

24:54

we know what kind would. It also

24:56

does seem a little bit crazy to

24:59

forced like a as sensibly private company

25:01

to cells and thing that they own

25:03

like it. I can imagine that if

25:05

I dance for example were completely separate

25:07

to the Ccp and they're being told

25:10

you have to sell one of your

25:12

biggest assets because we don't trust you

25:14

because of where your of where you

25:16

originated. That would be super duper frustrating

25:18

and that by itself It was really

25:21

really unfair. but knowing nothing about business

25:23

or how anything what what if they

25:25

did created. An American Tic Toc

25:27

that with a separate company said

25:29

the original one and they have

25:32

to pay dividends to the original

25:34

Tic Toc or something like that.

25:36

Like, surely some clever business person

25:39

can find a solution that satisfies

25:41

us lawmakers while still not cutting

25:43

off the golden. Goose from by

25:46

Dance completely I am. One other thing

25:48

is probably worth talking about his We

25:50

talking about where data is stored, riot

25:52

and and access to.us. Eat

25:55

This. Farce, Nino Buttons the under

25:57

cities are a far from unique

25:59

in. They keep their users' data in

26:01

nations that are not way the uses leave.

26:03

I mean that they not it's they certainly

26:06

not the only company the through that is

26:08

it just that the saved links between the

26:10

company was is it is it purely about

26:12

them. savings from the company and whatever gotten

26:15

access and sauna exists so doesn't exist yet.

26:17

So like you said the five the first

26:19

worries that that.a can be collated and hooked

26:21

into kind of like profiles of people so

26:24

that.can be seen. So I had this person

26:26

might be more amelia both of these kind

26:28

of messaging which is which. Leads to

26:30

the second main major issue which is

26:32

that that the Us government is why

26:35

that for instance in the event of

26:37

a lower Taiwan face either how many

26:39

young people get the news of to

26:41

talk that the algorithm will be twisted

26:43

in a way to downplay certain political

26:46

messages and and emphasize other ones. Starlight.

26:48

That's unlikely to happen might just in radio as

26:50

but it's kind of lotta a panic button that

26:53

they're worried that the the government can press in

26:55

case of emergency. A solid don't Trump backflip and

26:57

now he's like are to talk is a great

26:59

company. A lot of kids like it. I would

27:02

be a very twenty twenty four result. Is there

27:04

a lesson and was one of young people voting

27:06

for Trump and on top of I guess I

27:08

thought. Is that these

27:10

that a good living there? Is that a good. Night Missile

27:12

best. It's a sort of thought and

27:14

has already. Seven or that makes you

27:17

have to stop because. You need

27:19

to go lie down and that's my

27:21

cue. Thank you bye so much for

27:23

joining us on another site of download

27:25

This I Daniel Bamboo from Have to

27:28

Brace thank you as always say sadly

27:30

missed you have prisoners of system will

27:32

them and hundred yards in game anything

27:34

for tasks your purposes and was never

27:37

in Monmouth. And having

27:39

an indecent indecent the of I bet he says

27:41

he listens, sit

27:45

down with this You've

28:21

been listening to an ABC

28:24

podcast. Discover

28:30

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