0:01

Wonder Curiosity Connection

0:03

. Where will your adventures take you

0:05

? I'm Dr Diane , and thank

0:07

you for joining me on today's episode

0:09

of Adventures in Learning . So

0:20

welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast

0:23

. When we were in New Zealand , I

0:25

got to go to the Weta Workshop and

0:27

while I was there I fell

0:29

in love with our next guest . Sonja

0:32

Howard is a very cool

0:34

artist . The stuff that she makes

0:36

is just mind-boggling

0:38

in its detail and it really got

0:40

me thinking about the idea of STEM

0:43

and STEAM from a whole new light , realizing

0:46

that those of us who are artists

0:48

can also contribute to making

0:50

things and creating things and

0:53

being part of something really

0:55

magical . So , sonja , welcome from

0:57

New Zealand . Thank you for getting up this

0:59

morning to be on the podcast . I appreciate

1:01

having you here .

1:03

Oh , thank you so much for the invitation . It's a pleasure

1:05

to be here .

1:06

So I'm wondering when you first

1:09

were on our tour , you introduced yourself

1:11

by sharing your villain origin

1:13

story . Can you share your

1:15

origin story in terms of how

1:17

you got to where you are today ?

1:20

Absolutely so . Yeah , I'm

1:22

originally from Australia . I grew

1:24

up in the wild rainforest

1:27

, full of all sorts of real monsters

1:29

, and my dad was a crocodile tour

1:31

guide . So it's kind of no wonder

1:33

that I wanted to start making creatures

1:35

of my own . And because I'm autistic

1:37

, when I get passionate about something , I

1:40

get really passionate about it

1:42

. So I decided from a pretty young

1:44

age that I want to make monsters for a

1:46

living , and the best place in the world to

1:48

do that is Squatter Workshop right

1:50

. So years I heamed

1:53

and I saved up and I finally

1:55

moved over . I was so excited it was going to

1:57

be great and COVID

1:59

hit Great timing right . But

2:02

I was lucky enough to run into Richard Taylor

2:04

one day when I was walking my dogs and

2:07

I decided you know what stuff it this

2:09

is my chance Walked up to him , introduced

2:11

myself , introduced my dog and after

2:14

I could maybe drop off a portfolio , and

2:16

he said , yes , I

2:19

also included a block of

2:21

bribery chocolate when I dropped off the portfolio

2:23

, just to you know , meet in the deal . And

2:26

I guess it worked , Because a

2:28

few weeks later he called me up and asked if I wanted

2:30

to make a bunch of creatures for unleashed . He

2:34

actually only gave me eight minutes

2:36

notice to get down to the workshop

2:38

. I was sitting in my fluff

2:40

pit working on a little rat dragon and

2:43

suddenly it was like oh hi , it's Richard

2:45

, when can you come down ? I got something

2:47

that might be of interest . Can you

2:49

be here in eight minutes ? So

2:52

I frantically got changed , sprinted

2:54

down the road , made it just in time to hear about all of

2:56

the cool stuff that he wanted

2:58

me to make . So my

3:00

work on that project led to work in the head apartment

3:03

on Rings of Power at the workshop , where

3:05

I was basically spending about 50

3:07

hours a week in a room lined with

3:09

orchids . We're all

3:11

just sort of daring at me all

3:14

day as I tied individual

3:16

strands of hair on the near invisible

3:18

way to give them all the most glorious

3:21

headings in all of middleer

3:23

, Only for

3:25

them all to wear a helmet

3:27

. So you can't see

3:30

any of it , but

3:32

you know we had a good time . So

3:34

I've worked on a few bits and pieces since then , but most

3:36

of them are still very top secret . Yes

3:39

, that is my super villain origin

3:42

story .

3:43

I love your origin story and I'd like to circle

3:45

back to growing up in

3:47

Australia and sort

3:49

of the inspiration for your creatures , as

3:51

well as being a child

3:54

with autism , and how that impacted

3:56

your decision to go into making monsters , because

3:59

I think that's really interesting . Can you go

4:01

a little deeper on that ?

4:02

Absolutely Certainly . See , I

4:04

was a really weird kid . I

4:06

always thought that I was going to be a

4:09

zoologist , so going into like

4:11

studying animals and stuff and the place I

4:13

grew up , mission Beach , is full of

4:15

both artists and scientists . So

4:17

I had this really amazing community around

4:20

me that were like encouraging my interest

4:22

and supporting me when I

4:24

wanted to pick up a lot of roadkill and sort

4:26

of you know , pull it apart and have a look at

4:28

how different creatures worked and stuff , and

4:31

would often like give me random skulls

4:33

and things to study . So

4:35

, yeah , I was just really really

4:37

supported by the community and thought

4:39

, you know , I'll go into sciences and then

4:41

got right to the point of like graduating

4:44

, getting into the universities that I wanted to , and

4:46

then decided , actually now I want to make creatures

4:48

instead of studying them and so I sort of

4:50

pivoted all of a sudden . But

4:53

, yeah , I was really really fortunate to

4:55

have that incredible supportive community

4:57

around me . In terms of

4:59

sort of autism and stuff , I

5:01

thought I was diagnosed when I was I

5:04

was well

5:06

and

5:08

I was basically having really really bad

5:10

anxiety after a massive cyclone

5:12

hit the region and

5:15

basically destroyed the high school

5:17

like two weeks into my first year of

5:19

high school and so I ended up

5:21

getting diagnosed and it

5:23

was amazing . It was just like oh

5:26

, oh , there's actually . I'm

5:28

not just like oh , we don't miss it , there's a reason

5:30

. I mean , I'm also a weirdo miss it

5:32

, but like there are others , and

5:35

so , yeah , that was really amazing and really

5:37

really helps sort of unlock a

5:39

lot of who I am . Yeah

5:42

, that was very cool .

5:44

And tell us a little bit about the kinds

5:46

of creatures you love to make today

5:48

. What are , what are , some of the things that you're

5:50

interested in making ?

5:53

Okay , so I have sort of two mainstream

5:56

the fluffy , cute , ridiculous

5:58

little creatures that you saw at

6:00

the Wettum Cave they've

6:04

all become known as flutes because

6:06

they're fluffy and then there's the skeletal

6:09

creation where I basically get

6:11

ethically sourced to remain usually

6:13

rat , my brode , kill bird , that sort

6:15

of thing and I feed them to

6:17

my colony of flesh eating beetle . I

6:20

clean the bones and reassemble them into

6:22

little fantasy creatures , which

6:24

is a very good fun .

6:26

Okay , wait . First of all , let's back up for a minute

6:28

. You have plenty of flesh

6:30

eating beetles .

6:31

Do tell , yeah yeah

6:33

, they're actually surprisingly easy to

6:35

get . My first colony

6:38

I got over in Australia when I did this amazing

6:41

little two day mouse articulation

6:43

workshop with a guy who goes

6:45

by articulated imagination and

6:49

there was a take home kit involved and

6:51

I was like , oh sweet , that'll be , you know some chemical from

6:53

tools . Oh , I'll get the take home kit . Turned

6:56

out it was a colony of flesh eating beetles that I then

6:58

had to get on a plane , which

7:00

was concerningly easy , like

7:04

custom , or it wasn't custom , it was domestic

7:06

.

7:06

They didn't care , they were like all right , I was going to say

7:08

domestic doesn't care . Had you been international

7:11

, they would have given you more grief . Yeah .

7:14

Yeah , you can't bring anything international

7:17

into New Zealand . So when I moved over

7:19

here I had to get a new colony and

7:21

I ended up trading a

7:23

little skeletal creature with the

7:25

Dunedin Museum of Natural Mystery

7:27

and he sent me a bunch of flesh eating

7:30

beetles in the mail , as you do .

7:32

So , and those creatures are amazing

7:35

. I mean , they're so , they're

7:37

lifelike , but they've got that fantasy

7:39

spin to them and I

7:41

could see sort of that fascination with

7:43

creatures and science coming through

7:45

in that work . Am I right ?

7:48

Absolutely . Yeah , I love thinking of sort

7:50

of ways that they could be sort

7:52

of evolutionarily possible

7:55

, if not likely . So

7:57

trying to sort of think about how things would actually

7:59

move and stuff within those sort of constraints

8:02

of our world doesn't

8:04

always work , but that's the aim . Do

8:07

you have a favorite ? That's

8:11

like picking a favorite child . I

8:15

really enjoy doing little fantasy

8:18

griffins where I

8:20

basically get like a bird

8:22

and give it depending on its size . Oh gosh , sorry

8:24

, my dog's just appeared , so

8:27

should I just start that again ?

8:29

You're fine , the dog is welcome

8:32

to join us .

8:33

Yeah Well , yeah , little fantasy griffins where

8:35

I take a bird skeleton

8:37

and , depending on its size , either add sort

8:40

of mouse or rat front

8:42

limbs or , if

8:44

I don't have those available because you know

8:46

skeletons , I'll

8:48

use a smaller bird's legs

8:51

as sort of the front limb paternum into

8:53

little griffins and stuff , and ideally with like a little

8:55

mouse or rat tail to give it a long tail

8:57

. And it's sort of my twist on

8:59

like a little common griffin .

9:02

That is so cool and

9:05

in terms of inspiration for

9:07

your work , do you draw on

9:09

the environment ? You draw on nature , like

9:12

what are the inspirations you bring into it ?

9:15

Yeah , absolutely so

9:17

. I love thinking about fantasy

9:19

twists on real animals and

9:22

how fantasy adaptations

9:24

and stuff could be scientifically

9:27

explained . I actually

9:29

did an assignment in high school

9:31

where it was like a myth busters unit

9:33

and I was looking at the evolutionary

9:36

possibilities of the existence of dragons

9:38

, which I sadly concluded

9:41

was not really possible

9:43

, but like looked at like how could they breathe fire

9:45

? And like how could we explain

9:47

a creature that's got six limbs , because

9:49

they've got the wings as well as the four legs and

9:52

stuff , and going into ludicrous

9:54

amount of detail around that

9:56

, which was very good fun .

9:58

I love it . I was going

10:00

to ask you , as I'm sort of thinking about

10:02

you're now at Weta Workshop and you got

10:05

there because of your body of work and

10:07

your portfolio , as well as your

10:09

guts , in approaching Richard

10:11

Das for a job what

10:13

did you have to do sort

10:15

of leading up to that moment ? What kind of

10:17

training or what kind of experiences

10:19

went into that ?

10:22

So I moved down to Brisbane

10:25

where there was going to be sort of more opportunities

10:27

and I met some guys from the workshop

10:29

at a convention and they sort of gave me the advice

10:32

that if you want to get into the film

10:34

industry you have to have a really amazing portfolio

10:36

and get like professional quality

10:38

images of your work . So I sort of took that the heart

10:40

and I went off and I studied , I

10:42

did a diploma in screen and media

10:44

specialist makeup services at

10:48

the Australian Institute of Creative Design

10:50

, so it was a full six month diploma

10:52

. That sort of taught you the basics of like prosthetic

10:54

makeup and stuff and through

10:56

that they let me use their

10:58

professional photographers to put up , put together

11:01

a portfolio to enter some

11:03

international makeup competitions . So there

11:05

was one in Sydney and one over in London

11:07

and so that helps

11:09

really build up that sort of like portfolio

11:12

level images of the stuff that I'd made

11:14

. And then I like sort

11:16

of spent the next couple of years working on

11:18

a bunch of short film projects as well

11:20

as continuing to make and sell my creatures

11:22

like the little fluffy ones and

11:24

, yeah , just sort of cobbling together a bunch of different things

11:26

and working on upskilling . I spent some time

11:28

with a manual art teacher

11:31

to learn how to make knives , which was

11:33

very fun and

11:35

yeah . So just sort of cobbling together a bunch

11:37

of different fields and skill to give

11:39

myself the best chance before I took

11:41

the lead and moved over .

11:43

That makes sense . And so if a child wanted

11:45

to sort of follow in your footsteps , had a

11:47

passion for monsters or a passion for

11:49

creatures , what would you recommend

11:52

that they do to get to that , that

11:54

level eventually ?

11:58

Just try as many

12:00

things as you can and figure

12:02

out what your passion is and

12:04

work to create high

12:07

quality things that

12:09

spark your imagination . Not just

12:11

doing just

12:13

the boring everyday things that people

12:15

tell you to do in art classes , but going out

12:18

and experimenting and playing

12:20

around and figuring

12:22

out what really makes you go . Wow

12:24

, Okay .

12:27

And I understand you're also a novelist , is

12:29

that correct ?

12:31

Yes , so I recently got a

12:33

literary agent and we're working

12:36

on edits to the manuscript at the moment

12:38

and hoping to send out to publishers

12:40

within sort of the next couple of months

12:42

.

12:43

So I think it's crossed , so

12:45

what is the ?

12:45

book about . So

12:48

the book it's working title is

12:50

A Melody of Souls and

12:52

it's about a young soul grafters

12:54

fight against poachers that

12:56

attacks sort of the mythical creatures in

12:58

her area and how a

13:00

dead human makes for an unlikely

13:03

ally . So it's basically

13:05

Interesting . Yeah

13:07

, it's such an interesting

13:09

world full of fantasy creatures that

13:12

I'm hoping to illustrate . It's

13:14

super queer and the main character is autistic

13:16

, like me , so

13:18

I'm hoping that people who don't

13:20

often get to see themselves in novels

13:23

will get something out of that

13:25

as well .

13:26

Oh , that's wonderful . Yeah , we talk a lot

13:28

here about windows and mirrors and

13:30

books that allow you to see

13:32

yourself represented but also

13:34

provide a window into other cultures

13:36

, and it sounds like that's a lot of what you're doing

13:38

in terms of your novel and

13:41

your advocacy work .

13:43

Yeah .

13:44

That's the aim . Yeah , that sounds

13:46

wonderful . So let's

13:48

talk a little bit about your

13:51

favorite fantasy creatures . You're

13:53

at Weta Workshop and I'm

13:55

wondering do you have a favorite

13:58

genre of fantasy that you

14:01

are drawn to or that informs

14:03

your work ?

14:05

Oh , good question . I mean

14:07

, I love dragons , all dragons

14:09

. I'm also like a massive fan

14:11

of practical effects and really

14:14

like immersive environments where the creatures

14:16

have their own ecosystems and stuff and

14:18

it's not just like a monster sleigh , but

14:20

it's like a full , living , breathing world

14:23

. But things like the dark crystal , where

14:25

you get to see all these little creatures

14:27

scurrying around in the bushes , and stuff that basically

14:30

add nothing to the plot but make

14:32

the world feel so rich and

14:34

vibrant .

14:35

Yeah Well , I love that You're just

14:37

thinking again about STEM and STEAM . Often

14:40

we ask kids to think about animal adaptations

14:43

, we ask them to think about habitats , and

14:46

why not go from a fantasy point

14:48

of view , apply as you were saying about the dragons

14:50

, apply what you know and

14:52

create a whole world where it

14:54

needs to make sense in

14:56

terms of the creatures that are living there . I

14:59

think that could be a really fun thing for the creatures to

15:01

try . I love it .

15:03

Oh my goodness , If I had been

15:06

given that opportunity and stuff in either science

15:08

class or art class , I would have just lost

15:10

my mind . That would have been so cool .

15:13

Yeah , here's

15:15

a question for you . Where are you hoping to go

15:17

career-wise from here ? You're so young

15:19

and you've got your entire career in front

15:21

of you . What are

15:23

your big hopes and dreams from here ?

15:26

My biggest one is I really want to work on Doctor

15:29

who . You

15:31

have a favorite Doctor . I

15:34

mean , I have many . I

15:37

really really love things

15:39

like I've watched all the classics . So

15:41

like the second doctor is

15:43

amazing and the sixth doctor , fourth

15:46

doctor , is sort of a bilgitry . And

15:49

then also I really enjoyed , like

15:51

Max Smith , the 11th doctor and

15:53

the current doctor , shudy Gatwa , is oh

15:56

, my goodness , I loved the recent

15:58

ones .

15:59

David Tennant was one of my favorite doctors

16:01

, but I love this , yeah , his excellence

16:03

so much . All right , so I'm sorry I

16:05

interrupted you . Back to Dr who . You want

16:07

to work on Dr who ?

16:09

Yes , I would love to work on Dr who Also

16:13

. I want to do all the things . I want to be able

16:15

to make sort of cool

16:17

fantasy creatures go like bigger scale

16:20

, smaller scale , doing more

16:22

skeletal stuff , more exhibitions , write

16:24

a whole bunch of books . Yeah

16:26

, I'm sort of at the stage where it's like there's all of

16:28

these really , really cool things that I could do and

16:30

I just want to do all of them .

16:33

Based on your portfolio and everything I've

16:35

seen , I think anything is possible . Cool

16:39

, well , thank you

16:41

so much for joining us on the Adventures in

16:43

Learning podcast . It has been such a treat

16:45

and I'm going to drop your website

16:47

in the show notes so

16:49

that people will be able to follow you and

16:51

hopefully we'll be able to eventually

16:53

see your stuff on the big screen as well . I

16:57

think it's crossed , thank you very much . Thank

16:59

you for joining us today and have a wonderful

17:02

day over in New Zealand . You

17:04

too , thank you . You've

17:17

been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast

17:19

with your host , dr Diane . If you

17:21

like what you're hearing , please subscribe

17:24

, download and let us know what you think , and

17:26

please tell a friend . If you want

17:28

the full show notes and the pictures , please

17:30

go to drdianadventurescom . We

17:33

look forward to you joining us on our next adventure

17:36

.