0:01

Wonder Curiosity Connection

0:03

. Where will your adventures take you

0:05

? I'm Dr Diane , and thank

0:07

you for joining me on today's episode of

0:09

Adventures in Learning . Hi

0:15

, welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast

0:17

. I'm your host , dr Diane . Happy

0:20

New Year . Today we get to talk

0:22

to an incredible teaching artist

0:24

who also happens to be a mime . His

0:27

name is Jeff Lambden and I am so

0:29

excited for you to get to meet him . I

0:32

had the privilege of being in his workshop

0:34

in North Carolina last year and I have

0:36

to tell you it was one of my favorite workshops

0:38

at the North Carolina Science Teachers

0:40

Association . You are in for such

0:42

a treat , jeff . Welcome to the program

0:44

.

0:45

Well , thank you , Doc . It's good to

0:47

see you and all of your viewers

0:49

, I am so glad you're with

0:51

us today .

0:52

Happy New Year .

0:53

Happy New Year . That's the appropriate phrase

0:55

for right now . It is .

0:59

I wanted to start by letting them get a

1:01

sense of who you are . Can

1:03

you talk a little bit about your adventures in learning

1:05

? I know that you're a teaching artist and

1:07

a mime . How did you get to

1:09

this point ?

1:12

I started out studying mime . After

1:15

I studied mime for several years , we

1:17

started a mime group in North Carolina . We

1:20

toured throughout the Southeast North

1:22

Carolina first , then the Southeast , then

1:25

the nation , and we performed for

1:27

everybody . We performed for daycare

1:29

centers , we performed for people

1:31

at Lincoln Center , we performed

1:33

at hospitals and prisons and

1:35

art centers all over , and so

1:38

by creating our own

1:40

material we got to

1:42

see a lot of audiences Along

1:45

the way . One

1:47

day when we were doing school shows , the principal

1:49

came up after the show and said would

1:52

you guys be interested in teaching

1:54

a couple of workshops with some of the classes when

1:56

you were done ? We said sure . So

1:59

we did some mime classes that day

2:01

and realized that the

2:03

educational component was something we

2:05

could add to our work , and so we did . We

2:07

offered it whenever we did school shows to

2:09

also do workshops , and

2:13

that was just performing mime and doing mime . So it was

2:15

reinforcing what they saw . About

2:18

20 years

2:20

ago , after I left the mime troupe

2:22

for a while , we closed down the mime

2:24

troupe in 93 . And

2:27

then about

2:29

20 years ago , around the turn of the century , I

2:31

was still doing school work , still

2:34

performing and still doing mime workshops , and

2:36

I also teach circus arts workshops

2:38

because I perform with a juggle

2:40

, a balance plates , and

2:42

so I teach the kids how to do that as well . That's

2:45

a physical lesson , by the way , and

2:48

one day I got a call from a school

2:51

that wanted me to do lengthy residency

2:53

and to parallel the mime

2:55

with the English language

2:57

arts standards . And

2:59

I said , what's a standard ? Of

3:02

course I had no clue , but

3:05

they brought me up to speed that

3:08

standards are important and so I

3:10

did that workshop and somebody else heard that

3:12

I had done that and asked for something

3:14

similar , and so I realized I needed to

3:16

bone up on this edgy speak . If

3:18

I was good and I'd do this , and

3:21

that's how it grew . I started

3:24

studying the standards

3:26

and how would I did , matched

3:28

up with them , and then

3:31

, as that word got out , I

3:34

was asked to do a whole lot of residencies

3:36

that parallel different things . When

3:38

I do a mask theater residency

3:41

, the kids make masks and

3:43

we also I have masks from around

3:45

the world and we study them and

3:47

how they are used and where they are used

3:49

today . These aren't this isn't

3:51

ancient history , they're all that's

3:53

being used today and that's I think it's a

3:56

real good parallel to

3:58

the book learning . They do , and

4:01

so the mime . I usually parallel

4:04

English language arts and the circus

4:06

arts . I parallel . It fits right

4:09

in with PE standards and it fits right

4:11

in with science standards . An

4:14

object at rest .

4:15

I was going to say there's a lot of physics in the circus

4:17

.

4:18

That's right . And so along the way in

4:21

North Carolina we have an education

4:23

coordinator at the State Arts Council and

4:25

she was badgering me to get credentials

4:27

. She said , jeff , you're doing this but

4:30

you've got to have credentials . I said , why should

4:32

she ? So I can say you have them . So

4:35

I did work with one organization

4:37

. That didn't really fit , but then I went to the folks at

4:39

Lincoln Center and it was a real nice

4:42

fit . I love the

4:44

philosophy of Maxine Green and how

4:46

they base all of their arts ed

4:48

on that , and

4:51

so I studied with them about

4:53

being a teaching artist

4:55

. So now this

4:58

is what I do when I'm not performing .

5:00

So let's talk a little bit about Lincoln Center

5:02

. What were some of the takeaways

5:05

from that ? What were the things that made that experience

5:08

so unique ?

5:09

The thing I liked about the Lincoln Center

5:11

approaches they start with

5:13

art . Every

5:16

educational moment

5:19

that I create , it

5:21

refers to or jumps

5:24

off of a performance that they

5:26

will see or have seen , and

5:29

that makes perfect sense

5:31

to me . It's not amorphous

5:33

art form , it

5:36

is an art experience , and

5:38

that , to me , is what I like the best .

5:41

Well , and I love the fact that you use the word experience

5:44

, because I know for me , when I'm doing

5:46

professional development with teachers , I

5:49

really try to shy away from the word

5:51

activity , because to me

5:53

, activity is a standalone thing and

5:55

it's not hooked in and connected

5:57

to the world around you , to

6:00

something that you're gonna remember , and so

6:02

I love that notion of helping

6:04

to create experiences .

6:06

Well , I hadn't thought of it that way , but that's great

6:08

.

6:10

So , when you're doing professional

6:12

development or you're doing your workshops

6:14

, what are some of the experiences that you're

6:16

offering or the ways that you set things up ?

6:19

Well , of course it depends on the subject matter

6:21

. The folks at the conference , the

6:23

science conference , wanted something

6:26

about that visual art . They felt

6:28

like the science teachers will

6:30

could grok that a lot more

6:33

clearly , and so I thought

6:35

about all the ones and I remembered

6:37

that the Getty Museum

6:39

had prints

6:42

that

6:44

they let you use , and so that's

6:46

what we did . I started with those

6:48

and

6:51

then use that . As you

6:53

noticed , when we went outside

6:55

to let the sun do its work , everybody

6:59

was having such a blast because it was the first

7:01

time they'd been out of that conference center In

7:04

three days . Right , and

7:08

I'm gonna shame the devil . To tell the truth , when you and

7:10

I , when we met at the pre-conference

7:13

dinner , that

7:15

was at hanging no

7:17

pilot mountain , pilot mountain State park

7:19

, that was an eye-opener for

7:21

me to be

7:24

outdoors , and they didn't

7:26

know it . They were doing arts integration

7:28

and not knowing when we were doing

7:30

the part about the lines looking at the

7:32

geological formations . Yes

7:34

, I thought that was fabulous and

7:36

they didn't even know what they were doing . They were doing

7:39

science .

7:40

Well , and I found myself thinking , especially

7:42

after I took your workshop , that you

7:44

could take what they were doing

7:46

in terms of the lines

7:48

and the angles of the rocks and then connect

7:50

it to the poetry and

7:53

to the art , right , you

7:55

could , and it's a visual art standard line

7:58

, right , and

8:00

that's one of the beautiful things .

8:01

And then that was a cute thing , and I told them

8:03

you don't even know what you're doing , but this

8:06

is what you're doing very well as

8:08

we , you know , because we had that great time to chat with

8:10

them . Yes , and

8:12

that was beautiful . I liked that .

8:14

I think more conferences need experiences

8:16

like that .

8:18

I agree , I would , and they

8:20

used to happen . We used to go to

8:22

an arts conference and

8:24

we would have an art event as a part of it , either

8:26

going to a gallery or something

8:29

, and that's you know , as prices have gotten

8:31

higher and et cetera , et cetera . And

8:33

then at COVID we weren't even allowed to be there , we

8:36

had to do it virtually

8:38

, but

8:40

I really liked that , that . I

8:42

think I lived better with those experiences

8:44

.

8:45

I agree so . I interrupted

8:47

you . We were talking about experiences .

8:49

That's right . When I

8:51

work on MIME and teachers

8:54

, I get them to understand that the

8:57

children already know this . We

8:59

have so many gestures that we use every

9:01

day and the kids know them flat

9:03

out , and they also know about expression

9:05

, because they can do that without thinking they haven't

9:07

been trod upon to

9:09

not express anymore . And

9:13

so one of the beautiful

9:15

things about teaching MIME is Suzie

9:19

, who's usually very good at writing and

9:21

reading , and all of this thing is it's

9:24

hard for her to move and express . But

9:26

Zeke , who is not a good writer

9:29

and he's not a good listener and he's not , but

9:31

he's a physical learner he jumped

9:33

and right in and I'm praising him

9:35

and Suzie's looking at Zeke and going . He's

9:38

doing that real well and

9:41

I think it's a leveler

9:43

that we all

9:45

can . By experiencing

9:48

it and seeing it , it

9:51

becomes a part of the classroom

9:53

atmosphere , or

9:55

I'm sure there's a word

9:57

for it .

9:58

It's your classroom culture and you're

10:00

really you're figuring

10:03

out , I think , how to

10:05

highlight people's strengths . Yeah

10:07

, we all have strengths , and so

10:09

they may be in different fields , but we can play

10:11

those up .

10:12

And teachers don't come by this from

10:15

their education , and

10:17

my joke with the teachers is if

10:19

they had taught you these skills

10:22

in college , I

10:24

would be out of a job .

10:26

I like that . That's a good point .

10:29

But they didn't . And they don't because

10:31

those teachers , they have things they have to

10:33

get done and none of it has to

10:35

do with how

10:38

do you get the

10:40

information across in

10:43

a way that's appealing , exciting

10:45

and wonderful for the child . That's

10:48

what I see as missing in pre-service

10:50

education , and I said that live .

10:53

Nope , and I agree with you that I

10:55

call it showtime . That's my informal

10:58

education coming in , but

11:01

it is the showtime piece . It's the

11:03

how do you hook your audience , because

11:05

your students are an audience and

11:08

they're co-creating the material

11:10

with you . So how do you hook them and get them

11:12

involved ?

11:13

Amen . And so I try to model that . And

11:16

then , when

11:18

I'm working with teachers and

11:20

when I teach a lesson well , you experienced it I

11:23

stop and say what do you want to know ? What did I

11:25

just do ? As the teacher in the room

11:27

right now , your teachers and should be analyzing

11:29

what I'm doing from all of those

11:31

perspectives and that

11:34

, I think , is refreshing to them because most

11:36

of their professional developments are . You

11:38

must do it this way . You must learn

11:40

this now , because we're changing all

11:42

the text to work this way and this

11:44

is the way you have to do it . And I've

11:51

said enough .

11:52

No , but I totally get where you're coming

11:54

from because I know , having traveled the country

11:57

, one of the things that I'm hearing from teachers

11:59

is that professional development

12:01

is boring . You

12:04

sit there and you're multitasking

12:06

, just praying for that moment that you get out

12:08

and I'm on a mission to

12:10

prove to them that it doesn't have to be

12:12

. But that comes with what you're

12:15

talking about . It's teaching the way that

12:17

we want to be taught as adults , but

12:19

also the way that kids want

12:21

to be taught , and so it is finding

12:23

that way that you can connect and be

12:25

engaging .

12:27

Well , and I'll say this

12:29

Do you know the writings of Eric Booth ? Yes

12:31

, OK , Eric has a new book out

12:34

and one of the things

12:36

that I really I hadn't

12:38

thought about a lot , but I've been thinking about a lot

12:40

because this stimulated me . He says

12:42

80% of your work is you .

12:46

Yep .

12:47

And I'm a performer , right

12:50

, and so of course

12:52

it makes sense to me that

12:54

my classes , you

12:56

know they have a beginning , middle and end and we

12:58

have rising action and what I want

13:00

them to get and what they can get ancillarily

13:03

on their own and what they might do later

13:05

. That's all . You know . That's the job of a playwright

13:08

and a dramaturg and

13:10

I bring it to the classroom , and

13:13

so I've been

13:15

thinking about that a lot because of

13:18

whatever you know . He's so way

13:20

smarter than me Talking

13:22

about all my stuff .

13:23

We need people who are way smarter than us . That's how we

13:25

learn .

13:25

That's right , that's right . But I've been

13:27

thinking about that because I'm in the middle of reading his

13:29

latest book .

13:31

Well , and I like that . I like the idea

13:34

that , as performers , we

13:36

come to professional development with that idea of

13:38

beginning , middle and end . And teachers

13:40

have the capacity to be performers

13:43

as well . They just need the

13:45

support and the encouragement to not

13:47

be afraid to do it .

13:49

And , if I may , they need to

13:51

know that it's not another add-on

13:54

like this language . It

13:56

is how you do it , it's

13:59

the basis , it's substantive and

14:01

if they start to adopt these

14:03

methods then

14:05

they will truly see these

14:08

methods in their planning . Yes

14:10

, it's got to be intentional and maybe

14:12

it's just a little at a time , and I understand

14:15

that because some of these teachers have been teaching

14:17

since I was born , right , and

14:19

they have their way and that's good If

14:21

it works for them . But if

14:24

we can encourage them to

14:26

start to make choices

14:29

so that they utilize

14:31

, and intentionally

14:34

utilize , those aspects of teaching , I

14:36

think we're making it . We're

14:38

making , we're affecting the teaching

14:41

practice .

14:42

So I like the idea that you just talked about . You

14:44

know , maybe you start small with a couple of things and

14:46

you build it into practice . If you

14:48

were to sit down with a teacher who

14:51

wants to be more intentional

14:53

and wants to build more of

14:55

these connections and the arts and the

14:57

performance aspect in , where would you tell

14:59

them to start or how would you help them get started

15:02

?

15:02

It'll come as no surprise that I

15:04

would tell them to start

15:06

letting the children get up out of

15:08

their seats . That's the very

15:10

first thing and many teachers

15:13

, and young ones especially , are very afraid of

15:15

that because because

15:19

of the chaos yeah , I'll

15:21

say it out loud , yes , it's chaotic

15:23

. However , if students

15:25

learn that they are , that they , when

15:28

they get out of their seat , there

15:30

are expectations , then

15:32

over time they

15:34

accept those you know it's like . So

15:37

, anyway , to get the kids out of their

15:40

seats and to act things out

15:42

whether it's doing a tableau

15:44

about something you're reading , or trying

15:47

, or asking them to get up and try to show the

15:49

difference between a solid , a liquid and a gas with

15:52

their body .

16:00

Are you tired of same old , same old professional

16:03

development experiences

16:05

? Check out what recent workshop

16:07

participants have to say about doing

16:09

a workshop with Dr Diane's Adventures in

16:11

Learning Great hands-on

16:13

session that included real ideas to incorporate

16:16

in the classroom . Wonderful , lots

16:18

of great ideas and fun science experiments

16:21

. It was great to be able to see

16:23

how to make connections between the stories

16:25

and science . If you are looking

16:27

to raise your game and have a professional

16:30

development experience that will leave your

16:32

educators feeling rejuvenated and

16:34

ready to directly apply ideas into

16:36

their classrooms , reach out to Dr Diane's

16:39

Adventures in Learning . We

16:41

offer half-and-full-day workshops that examine

16:43

ways to build connections between

16:45

multicultural picture books and

16:47

STEM STEAM experiences for

16:49

gains across the curriculum . All

16:52

programs can be tailored to your specific

16:54

needs , so find out what

16:56

audiences across the country have

16:58

been experiencing . Check out

17:00

Dr Diane's Adventures in Learning at

17:03

wwwdrdianadventurescom . We

17:06

hope to be in your school soon , but

17:19

there are so many cool science demonstrations

17:21

we can do that . Involve

17:23

the kids and their hands-on and so find

17:26

a few of those . Build those

17:28

into what you're doing . I

17:30

love with the five senses with kids . This

17:33

is a super simple thing . Teachers can start

17:35

with Pick a page in your

17:37

favorite picture book . If you're

17:39

reading the picture book to the kids . Share

17:41

the picture book , stop and then have

17:43

them act out , sound story

17:46

, a particular page . What sounds

17:48

do you hear ? You'll see those different things . You're

17:50

the bird , you're the worm , you're the tree

17:53

, you're the wind . Don't

17:55

be afraid of a little controlled chaos .

17:58

Right . Also , talking about sounds

18:00

, I advocate

18:02

, as you saw , going outside , leading

18:05

the classroom . One of

18:07

the things that children I've

18:09

found love to do is called a simple

18:12

exercise , a sound map , where

18:14

you sit and you make a circle in the middle and

18:16

that's you . Every time you hear

18:18

something , you have to make a visual

18:21

representation on your piece of paper in

18:23

the direction it was so with the

18:25

front over side , and so the children

18:27

are making these , and it can be a truck , it can

18:29

be a bird , it

18:31

can be the wind in the tree , it can be a

18:34

cowbell , six fields over

18:36

that they can hear , but they end up

18:38

with this little map of little

18:40

figures and then we turn

18:42

that map into

18:44

a piece of visual art using

18:46

visual art standards . Now

18:49

they've got marks , anyway , but it's

18:51

about listening , because

18:54

that's another simple thing that

18:57

the kids need to relearn , because

18:59

they're not trained to listen , they're

19:01

told to listen .

19:03

Observing is another one of those Yep

19:05

, and

19:08

what I would do with small , like

19:10

really small children , preschoolers , is

19:13

we would take a hula hoop and

19:15

we would go outside and put the hula hoop down

19:17

on the grass and they'd have a microscope

19:20

and they were observing

19:22

what they could see within the realm

19:24

of that hula hoop and we were making

19:26

a list of all the things and

19:29

able to create our own interactive writing

19:31

based on what they saw

19:33

.

19:33

Perfect , perfect . And in observation

19:35

, whether it's visual , auditory , tactile

19:39

, any all that using

19:42

we would . How would I say it ? An

19:45

archivist would say that you were

19:47

using documents

19:50

that were first person

19:52

. Yes , right , and

19:54

we forget that sometimes because

19:57

a lot of the teaching techniques that

19:59

teachers are taught in colleges are

20:02

, especially now , with keyboarding Don't

20:04

get me started . It's

20:08

already transposed

20:10

Right , other

20:12

than first person .

20:14

And I do think we need that first person observation

20:17

. You need the ability to see

20:20

, to know , to connect .

20:23

Right , well , you've

20:25

got to be able to observe before you can analyze

20:27

.

20:28

Yes .

20:29

And you know that , that whole pyramid

20:31

, you know

20:33

all the , all the things you should be able to do

20:36

and when you should be able to do them , until

20:40

you can observe you can't , can't , do anything

20:42

.

20:44

And I love the fact you've referenced this a few times that

20:46

you're able to take the arts and connect

20:49

them into steam to

20:51

the science , technology , engineering

20:54

, arts and math . Can

20:56

you give an example of some of the ways that you like

20:58

to do that ?

21:04

Okay , one that I do when I'm asked

21:06

in science class just

21:09

physicalizing things , and

21:11

that's my what's one of my favorites . Like I said , physicalize

21:14

a solid becoming liquid

21:16

and a liquid becoming

21:18

a gas , and doing

21:21

that , that's one that I really

21:23

like Anytime I have the

21:25

kids physicalize the water cycle . How

21:28

do you show the evaporation ? I mean , show

21:30

it to me , don't tell me about it , you

21:32

know , show it to me . What does it look like , what

21:34

does it feel like , what does it taste like

21:37

when they're doing it ? Also

21:39

, having them actually

21:42

observe an animal moving

21:44

, yes , and then describing

21:47

it and then taking it

21:49

on rather than move like

21:51

a monkey , and they have these classic

21:53

things that they would do . I said , well , wait a second , let's

21:56

let's look at a monkey and I'll

21:58

have videos of them . And they

22:00

go oh , I said , see if you can copy

22:03

the way the monkey is moving . And

22:05

then their vocabulary broadens

22:07

and it starts with their physical

22:09

, because physical movement

22:12

is a vocabulary that they can then translate

22:14

into words , and then their verbal

22:16

vocabulary is expanded . So

22:19

that's another thing I like to do . I

22:22

one of my very

22:25

favorite exercises

22:29

, and this one was when I did early on and

22:31

it really got me hooked in trying to invent

22:33

things that were rigorous . I

22:36

, that's called monkeys in the rainforest and

22:38

I teach them about five different kinds of monkeys

22:40

that are in the rainforest and they each choose their own

22:43

which one they're going to be in there and they're little

22:45

tribes right that ? All

22:47

the five little tribes are monkey . And

22:49

we start and what I do is I take all

22:52

the desks and all the tables in the room and I push

22:54

them together and that's where they go to sleep every

22:56

night , and so they actually are climbing up

22:58

and they all go to sleep and then

23:00

when they're out during the day , they're out

23:03

around the room and they're with their little tribes

23:05

and they're eating and they know what they're supposed to be finding

23:07

, and so they're doing their research

23:09

visually and I take away

23:11

some of the chairs and tables . So when

23:13

they go back at night , there's less

23:16

each time and

23:18

by the fourth or fifth time there's not

23:20

enough room for everybody . So what did

23:22

them ? How do you help your tribe

23:24

you have ? How do you help each other ? And

23:27

it , and it really is emotional

23:29

for the children when they see a

23:31

child that there's no room for and

23:33

what do they have to do ? And

23:36

then we talk about . You know what's

23:38

happening to the rainforest , but we don't

23:40

talk about it until we've done it .

23:43

So you're internalizing it . First You're

23:45

developing that emotional connection and

23:47

then you add in the layers of

23:49

content , exactly .

23:51

And they see it and feel it . It's not

23:53

. I mean , it's

23:55

not rhetorical , it's not , you know

23:57

, it's not imaginary , it's not fantastic

23:59

they're . You know , Sam can't get

24:01

up here until we reach home . We're going

24:04

to grab and we're going to hold him on on

24:06

the death Because we want our whole family to be

24:08

here . Right , Love that

24:10

and by

24:13

adding the emotional content

24:15

of acting to the exercise

24:18

, which is which is what I've done , it

24:20

really brings home what

24:22

we're talking about when we lose an

24:24

acre of rainforest .

24:27

And that's a hard concept , without

24:29

adding that in .

24:31

Yeah , and running water is

24:34

another one . And you

24:36

I mean a lot of people do this , I assume

24:38

, but I have them . You know , we talk about turning

24:40

on the water and brushing our teeth and turn on the water

24:42

and washing our hands , and do they ever just

24:44

leave the water on ? And and you know , the

24:46

water's running . So I have , I

24:49

, I I'm brushing

24:51

my teeth and I say you have to run anytime

24:54

. I turn the faucets on , so the whole class

24:56

is running right , and I turn on the

24:58

faucets and I get my toothpaste and they're running

25:00

, and I open up the tube and they're

25:02

running and they're saying Mr

25:05

Janet , you know we're still running , I go , oh

25:07

really , I'm brushing my teeth , and

25:09

so by the end of the go , I go . So

25:11

how was it to be running water

25:14

While I was doing ? I said , well , you were wasting

25:16

us . And they're telling me I

25:18

love it , you know , and it's just

25:20

physicalizing it and that's the way I

25:22

look at it .

25:23

But it does again by acting it out , you

25:26

bring the point home and

25:28

I was thinking , as you were talking

25:30

, that you could do that with polar bears and

25:32

the disappearing sea ice . That

25:36

might be a really powerful way to help kids

25:38

understand what the Arctic is going

25:40

through right now and you know there's a .

25:41

There's a book that I use Dog

25:45

on Ice . I think it's called and it's

25:47

about . It was a true story that there

25:49

was . It happened in Finland or Sweden

25:51

, up in up in Scandinavia somewhere where

25:53

a dog ended up on an ice flow

25:56

by accident and the

25:58

kids on this watch the

26:00

dog floating by and and

26:03

how they mobilize the

26:05

people to save the dog

26:07

. They had a ship that they

26:09

directed a ship to go and and

26:11

get the dog and then the dog was

26:13

the mascot of the ship and

26:16

I use that for them

26:18

. You know they have them . Imagine

26:20

that they are dog on

26:23

the ice and I give them writing prompts

26:25

. I wish , I

26:27

feel I would really like

26:29

, and you know

26:31

, once , once we've read through the story and

26:33

they and then I have them acted out , then

26:35

they're , then they're writing in the first

26:38

person , you know , being the dog and

26:41

and it would just be another leap to be a polar

26:43

bear . I love that .

26:45

Are there other books that you like to use ? I

26:49

?

26:49

like my passion . I like to use

26:51

frog and toad books because

26:53

they are always so wonderful

26:56

. I like there's

26:58

a book called Elberch Bad Word

27:00

. I know that one . Okay , I like

27:02

that one . Stragonona

27:05

with the with the pasta

27:07

pot making pasta and pasta

27:10

and pasta . I love that one . That

27:13

. Tommy DePaolo , those

27:16

off the top of my head , those are the ones that I

27:18

that come right up to the top

27:20

.

27:21

You know , because that's one of the things that I love to

27:23

do with teachers is to help them find

27:25

, you know , multicultural picture books

27:27

, picture books that you can connect to

27:29

these things . Yeah , you're doing , and

27:32

so I love the fact that you're also tying

27:34

in literature as you're doing your work . I

27:36

think it's really cool .

27:37

Well , the Ruby Bridges I

27:41

have . I had . I had teachers . I

27:43

got an excerpt from one of the stories

27:46

about Ruby Bridges and they acted it out and

27:48

and there were . You know , some of them were using harsh

27:50

words , yelling them at Ruby as she went by

27:52

, and so that

27:55

was a real Internally

27:58

difficult for them because

28:01

they were playing out of type and

28:03

with anybody do professional developments . I

28:06

need them to know that that's

28:08

a good thing . That's how you

28:10

know with . I know not all schools

28:12

can talk about social emotional learning anymore

28:14

, but there are whole curricula

28:16

that we're supposed to be teaching about . You've got

28:18

to call it something else Exactly , but

28:21

walking in someone else's shoes is

28:23

a big part of empathy .

28:25

Absolutely , and empathy , to me , is

28:27

one of the biggest things

28:29

that we as a country need to work

28:32

on Right , whether it's with a frog

28:34

, or with Ruby Bridges , or you know

28:36

, or , or anything but

28:38

but yeah

28:41

. Yeah , I had

28:43

noticed that you are doing work with social

28:46

, emotional learning or character development

28:48

or building , whatever we want to call

28:50

it . At this point , it's all

28:52

the same stuff . How do you

28:54

work that into your , into

28:57

the work that you do ?

28:58

Okay , I actually taught

29:00

a workshop and

29:03

people would ask me to teach it and I did

29:05

it a lot in South Carolina and

29:07

North Carolina . I worked with the drama teachers in North Carolina

29:10

but saying you cannot do an art

29:12

lesson without touching

29:14

on social more , you can't .

29:16

Right .

29:17

You can't , it just it can't be done

29:19

. And the way that I did it was I

29:21

took the social and social

29:23

emotional , a lot of

29:25

the ideas that they list on

29:27

a lot of the websites about

29:29

. These are things that show this

29:31

. These are things that show this . And

29:33

I made , you know , two

29:35

pages front and back . And so we would

29:37

do an exercise . Say

29:40

, we did an exercise about

29:43

using a sculptural work

29:45

created by an African American artist and

29:47

they take the pose of the sculpture

29:50

and then come up with lines for it and

29:52

make a script . Okay , that's a playwriting

29:54

exercise . And then I say , okay

29:56

, look at your sheets . What part of what

29:59

, what social emotional axioms

30:01

did we touch upon ? They go , oh , this one

30:03

and this one . And you know , I said you can't , so

30:06

you can't do it , you can't and I , so

30:08

I do another exercise where they're collaborating

30:10

it's called the Giants House , and

30:12

where they're in a group . Each , each

30:14

gang is it ? Each team is in a group and

30:17

they're walking in a circle . I say stop

30:19

and I tell them an item in the Giants House

30:21

that they must create with their bodies , and

30:24

it's everything from a chair to a harp

30:26

, to a bed , to a bowl of

30:28

cereal , and they have to with

30:31

their bodies and they have to work on stillness . So there's

30:33

a lot of collaboration involved

30:35

and and

30:37

when I do it with children , they

30:40

I do it before I have them collaborate

30:43

, creating a mind piece I

30:45

say these are the skills that you need and

30:48

have them tell me what skills

30:50

did you bring to this to achieve this

30:52

?

30:55

And and that's important , I think- and

30:57

what a great way to sort of start with something

31:00

concrete . Yes , they're creating

31:02

and then out because they're going

31:04

to take responsibility for creating an entire

31:06

skin .

31:07

Exactly , exactly . And we

31:09

have to remember that we cannot assess what

31:11

we don't teach . So I

31:14

I get a little heebie jeebie when

31:16

a teacher says make a tableau and

31:18

you know it's a French word , it's short for tableau

31:20

vivant . It really is . I

31:23

mean theater companies that used to do it used

31:25

to spend weeks creating

31:27

them and then they would perform them and and

31:30

and . So when I teach children

31:33

about tableau , I never use the word

31:35

. I talk about stillness , and

31:37

then pictures and being a part

31:39

of a picture , and then , maybe

31:42

, after we've done it for a couple of days , I say

31:44

you know , this has an official name Because

31:47

, again , by naming it

31:49

with societies named

31:51

for it , it removes it from

31:53

from first person and

31:55

you want it to start as a first person experience

31:58

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33:11

Right , right .

33:14

So you've had a chance to see education

33:16

from many different vantage points

33:18

over over

33:21

the last 25 , 30

33:23

years or so , maybe

33:26

a little bit longer than that . What

33:28

are some of the biggest changes you've

33:30

seen ? And second with that

33:32

is , what are some of your hopes for education

33:35

based on what you see as you travel and you

33:37

teach ?

33:38

Okay If I was king and

33:40

I got to say class

33:43

size . The size

33:45

of the group that you're teaching

33:48

must

33:50

be smaller . The

33:53

size of the schools must

33:56

be to scale for the size of those

33:58

classes . I'm sorry when I go into

34:00

a warehouse high school and there are 5000

34:03

kids and each hallway is

34:05

its own school or learning

34:08

environment . I'm

34:11

not so sure that

34:13

the young people in that atmosphere

34:16

come away

34:18

with what I did . There are 800 people

34:20

in my high school Total

34:22

.

34:23

Right .

34:24

Total and I knew their mothers . You

34:26

know I knew their parents and

34:29

we've gone away from that and

34:31

I understand the California model and why we do it

34:33

and this and that sometimes they do it just to have

34:35

a good football team . I'm sorry , and

34:38

if I was king I would stop that and I would go

34:40

back to smaller , Well

34:42

, well appointed , with a , with wasting

34:45

all the space to have an auditorium and

34:48

science and science labs , actual

34:50

labs with sinks and

34:53

faucets and you know

34:55

, so that you didn't worry about burning

34:57

down the bookshelf with the Bunsen burner . I

35:00

know that I know that they consider that a waste

35:02

of space now , but I

35:05

don't think so . I think that

35:07

that having appropriate learning

35:09

environments is really important . Multi

35:12

purpose rooms . I

35:18

mean you're going to eat there and then they're going to open up a

35:20

sliding panel and you're going to watch a show .

35:25

Sorry , and it also limits the opportunities

35:28

to bring in the arts because

35:30

you're having to basically build

35:32

that around lunch

35:35

periods .

35:36

Correct , correct Anyway

35:38

. But if I was king of the universe , it'd be small

35:40

class size , small school size

35:42

and appropriate learning environments . That's

35:45

the way I'd say it . And we're

35:47

building a school here in Robinson County

35:49

, where I live , and it's not going to have

35:51

any of that . It's a brand new middle school

35:53

and they're going to have thousands of kids and the stage

35:56

is going to be at the end

35:58

of the gym and

36:02

, and that's okay , at least

36:04

it's there .

36:04

At least they have a stage .

36:06

But I don't want to say at least it's

36:09

no .

36:09

I agree with you .

36:10

I'm in .

36:11

Winchester , virginia , and they're doing

36:13

renovations at the high school my girls

36:15

went to and

36:18

, as they've done the renovations , the

36:20

arts department , yet again , wasn't

36:22

also thought they weren't considered

36:25

part of the primary scope

36:27

of things , and so a lot of the emphasis

36:29

went to athletics and surprise

36:33

. But and there's nothing wrong with

36:35

athletics Athletics can be a great thing

36:37

, but you need to be able to embrace all

36:39

of these intelligences , and not every kid

36:42

is going to go through their high school experience

36:44

as a football player .

36:47

Amen , Amen . And

36:49

so if I was King of the universe , those are the

36:51

educational reforms that I would insist

36:53

upon .

36:54

I like that . So last question

36:57

for you for today what brings you hope

36:59

?

37:01

the kids , the

37:03

kids Through COVID

37:05

. I mean , I tried what I did

37:08

on Zoom with kids and

37:10

I didn't like it but they were juiced

37:12

. But trying to assess

37:14

34 little

37:16

boxes on my screen here

37:18

was beyond me . I realized

37:21

really early on if I can't assess

37:23

the class , I can't be teaching it . I

37:26

know I disappointed a lot of people because I just said

37:28

I can't do it , but

37:33

the young people have come back

37:35

from that . Yes , we have all

37:37

of the data showing that

37:39

. My brother , for instance , teaches

37:41

at a university . He teaches remedial

37:43

English for entering freshmen . He

37:47

said , jeff , our

37:50

classes quintupled

37:52

at the end of

37:54

COVID because kids

37:56

couldn't write at college

37:59

level , coming out of high school having

38:01

their diploma in their hand . But

38:04

they're still crying , they're not discouraged . That's

38:06

my point . The kids give me hope

38:08

. When I walk into a classroom and

38:11

even before

38:13

, when I'm walking down the

38:15

hall and the kids don't know

38:17

I'm watching and one of them is going like

38:19

this from the day before , practicing

38:23

their mind , then I

38:25

have hope . They're listening , they're

38:27

being encouraged , they're playing . That's

38:31

the other part of the educational

38:34

question that we forget

38:36

sometimes and you've said this yourself in so

38:38

many words . It's got

38:41

to be playful , because

38:44

if it's tedious and boring . It's

38:47

not going to be absorbed .

38:49

Well , and that's my hope for the new

38:51

year for so many of our teachers and students

38:53

is that get the tools they need

38:56

to be able to have playful

38:58

and enjoyable learning .

39:00

Right , right . So it's the kids

39:02

. And I know , you know , and okay

39:05

, I can say all this because I'm a gypsy

39:07

killer I come into your school for X

39:09

number of weeks and I do my work and

39:11

I leave . I am not a

39:13

day to day , 180

39:16

days of the year , with a

39:18

certain things that I have to get done . Yes

39:20

, I have certain things I have to get done , but

39:22

not over the scope of , you know

39:24

, 56 weeks , 52 weeks , how many

39:26

weeks are there ?

39:27

52 .

39:28

Yeah , and

39:31

I really respect them . I mean

39:33

, it takes different kinds of people to do different things

39:35

and I really respect

39:37

and love those teachers

39:39

that I see in their day in and day

39:41

out trying to find a way to

39:44

make all this happen , with

39:46

all the gobbledygook that they have to do

39:48

. I mean when

39:50

teachers today have so much paperwork that

39:54

they don't give homework .

39:56

Right , well , they're being given so

39:59

many outside tasks , exactly

40:01

. They are on to teaching

40:04

, exactly , and so we

40:06

can help them If

40:08

we can help make it simpler , help them

40:11

make it fun again . I think that's

40:13

where the kind of professional development

40:15

, the kind of work that we do , Well , I bet

40:17

you do that with your professional development work .

40:20

You try to show them .

40:21

Yes , look for ways to make it fun

40:24

and enjoyable and accomplish all

40:26

of these different things so that we make

40:28

it efficient

40:30

. You can do all of these things . You can connect

40:32

literature and steam and

40:35

you can still cover your standards .

40:37

Right Both

40:39

at and everybody's everybody's happier and learning

40:41

more . Now , okay , there

40:43

was one more thing I just remembered . I

40:47

would remove electronic

40:50

learning from anybody

40:52

younger than high school

40:54

, and that's

40:56

because of all the studies . The studies

40:58

show that two-dimensional learning and

41:01

keyboarding is

41:03

uses so much less of our brain

41:05

, and

41:07

that would be the I'll be your ass . I was thinking . That just

41:09

came cascading on me . Using

41:13

a stylus , a pencil or a pen

41:15

uses 400% more of your

41:17

brain than using your fingers on

41:20

a keypad . So

41:22

why don't we write ?

41:26

Well , we need to write , we need

41:28

to be able to get our hands dirty and

41:31

be able to actually shape and mold

41:33

and experiment as we're built .

41:35

Yes , yes Amen .

41:38

Well , I think you and I should just become the new king and queen of the

41:40

universe .

41:41

Okay , okay , yeah , so

41:44

then . So then , what do we do with all those politicians ? In

41:46

our way , right .

41:48

Exactly , we'll figure it out , okay

41:50

. Well , thanks for having me . Well

41:52

, thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures

41:54

in Learning podcast . I'm going to include your

41:56

contact information in the show notes so that

41:59

people can follow you and hopefully bring you to

42:01

their school . You've

42:13

been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast

42:15

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42:18

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42:20

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42:22

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42:24

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42:27

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42:29

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42:32

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