0:12

Hello, and welcome back to another

0:14

episode Dua Lipa at your service.

0:17

a podcast series in which I sit down with some

0:19

of the world's most inspiring minds.

0:21

Today's very special guest is Greta

0:23

Gerwig. a writer, actor,

0:26

and director whose work I am

0:28

absolutely in love with. But

0:30

before we dive in with Greta, I wanted to answer

0:32

a listener request. as I keep getting

0:34

so many wonderful emails from all of you.

0:37

Alexis from Sydney Australia writes,

0:39

to mark your arrival in Australia for the first

0:41

time since Mardi Gras twenty twenty, I

0:43

was wondering if you had any suggestions for

0:45

your favorite things to do in Australia. Alexis,

0:48

thank you so much for your question. I

0:50

loved my last trip in Australia and did

0:53

some really really fun things while I was

0:55

out there and some of the most recent

0:57

things, I guess, off the top of my head that I can remember

1:00

that I loved wine in Australia.

1:03

I loved going to pine loan koala

1:05

sanctuary

1:05

in Brisbane. That was really

1:07

cute. And mean,

1:08

They have so many different animals that you can

1:10

hang out with and play with and feed.

1:13

So I really enjoyed that. One of

1:15

my favorite things to do

1:16

in kidney is Dua the Bondi de Brondi

1:18

walk along the coast. That's

1:20

really peaceful for me. My favorite time to go

1:22

is

1:22

sunrise. So I I really

1:25

love that. I

1:27

love a restaurant and wine

1:29

bar in Melbourne called Hope Street

1:31

Radio. which my friend, Troy, took

1:33

me to, that I had a really really fun night

1:35

in. I also went to

1:38

Ground Street Beach in Perth,

1:40

which was really Wonderful. And

1:42

I had really nice day of recharging in

1:45

the sunshine before my show. So

1:47

those are my top

1:48

picks for Australia. If

1:53

you want me to answer one of your list questions

1:55

on next week's episode, don't forget to

1:57

send a message. to podcast atserves ninety

1:59

five

1:59

dot com. Stay

2:01

with me through a short break. After which,

2:03

I'll be back with Greta Gerwig.

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3:42

In

3:46

just two decades

3:47

of working professionally in the entertainment

3:50

industry, Greta Gerwig name has

3:52

become shorthand for quality care

3:54

and depth. Her projects are

3:56

consistent, thoughtful crowd pleases,

3:58

filled with a sort of crackling, joyful

4:00

dialogue you won't find elsewhere. When

4:02

you see a name attached to a film, whether

4:04

it's as an a writer, a director,

4:07

or some combination of the three. You

4:09

know you're about to settle in to watch something

4:11

absolutely amazing. Greta

4:13

made her first entry into Hollywood with Hannah

4:15

takes the stairs and nights and weekends.

4:18

Movies she made with her New York City friends

4:19

in the early two thousand as part

4:21

of what many call a mum will call movement.

4:23

Can you see the case? You

4:25

smell the same? Yeah. You smell the same

4:27

too. You have more of a

4:29

uni brow. You've

4:31

let your nose

4:32

hairs grow a little bit. You

4:35

have a bit more chest hair. Mhmm.

4:37

You're

4:38

prettier. She

4:39

entered the twenty tens with Greenberg,

4:41

her first project with director Noah

4:43

Baumback. He's now her other half

4:45

and a frequent creative collaborator. Their

4:48

writing work continued on Greta's true breakout,

4:51

Francis Har. a beloved film

4:53

about dreams, reality, and

4:55

the thin line that exists between the

4:57

two. And you look across the

4:59

room and catch each other's eyes,

5:01

but but

5:02

not because you're possessive or

5:05

it's precisely sexual.

5:08

but because

5:10

that is your person in

5:12

this life. And

5:14

it's funny and sad, but

5:15

only because this life will end and it's

5:18

the

5:18

secret world

5:20

that exists right there in

5:22

public unnoticed that no one else knows

5:25

about Her adaptation of little women

5:26

depicted adolescence, family,

5:29

and womanhood with unflinching

5:31

frankness and

5:32

grace. No. No one makes their

5:34

own way. Not really.

5:37

At least of all a woman, you'll need to

5:39

marry well. You

5:40

are not married, aren't well, that's because I'm

5:42

rich. Twenty twenty

5:43

three brings the most anticipated

5:46

movie of Greta's career. Barbie,

5:48

though originally only attached as

5:50

a writer, Greta was hired by act own

5:52

producer, Margo Robbie, to direct the

5:54

project too. Since filming began

5:56

earlier this year, Barbie has become the talk

5:58

of the town. From leaked

6:00

roller skating paparazzi photos

6:02

of Margo and her co star, Ryan Gosling,

6:04

who's playing Ken, naturally. to

6:06

a nonstop string of delightfully

6:08

bonkers casting announcements. It's

6:10

shaping up to be a must see movie

6:12

before we've gotten our hands on a single

6:14

glimpse. a footage. I'm

6:17

so thrilled to say that my recent conversation

6:19

with Greta is one of my absolute

6:21

favorites yet. We

6:23

went long and could have gone even longer.

6:25

And yes, to the eager Barbie

6:27

fans who have tuned in, don't fret. because

6:30

Greta and I talked all about it. It's

6:32

the first time Greta's spoken at length about

6:34

Barbie ever, so you won't want to miss a

6:36

moment. Please join me in welcoming

6:38

this week's very special

6:39

at your service guest,

6:41

Greta Gerwig.

6:42

Hi, Greta. How are you doing?

6:45

Hello. I'm very well. How

6:47

are you? I'm good.

6:48

Thank you. I'm so happy

6:51

to hear and speak with you.

6:53

Yes. And I need to know what is

6:55

the day in Australia and

6:56

what time is it? It's Saturday.

6:59

Okay. And it's nine thirty in the

7:01

morning. Okay. It's still

7:03

Friday. Yeah.

7:06

I thought so.

7:07

How's beautiful at Tom Nall? New

7:09

York?

7:10

Oh, so it's just raining

7:12

and it's I mean, it's wonderful,

7:14

but it's also everybody's

7:17

mad. It's like the first real fall

7:19

rain and everybody's just really angry

7:21

at each other. So it feels I

7:24

have to say after being in London for a

7:26

while, it's like, oh, we're bright. Yes. I

7:28

remember New York. Everyone's kind

7:30

of mad. Yeah.

7:32

I love New York. And sometimes I feel

7:34

like even if the weather's like bad or good

7:36

or whatever the sky is always blue. But

7:38

when it's not, I think people do go a little

7:40

bit bonkers. Yes.

7:42

It's it's a it's a but it's

7:44

it's sort of wonderful for that reason. It makes

7:46

me feel like, I don't

7:47

know. I've never quite gotten over the fact that I even

7:49

live in

7:49

New York City.

7:50

I still feel grateful every

7:53

day here because I think I haven't made

7:55

it I live in New York.

7:57

What an achievement I think

7:59

I, you know, have so many

7:59

cinematic memories of it. Mhmm.

8:02

Yeah. It's the place I've always wanted to

8:04

live, and I still really can't believe I do.

8:06

Oh, I love I love New York. I love New York

8:08

for exactly that that reason

8:10

too. Did you see any Barbie

8:12

costumes strolling through the city on Halloween?

8:14

my gosh. I did. I saw Barbie costumes

8:16

in the wild at a party.

8:19

It was crazy. Yeah. It

8:21

was it was texting with Marco

8:23

and Ryan, and then Ryan saw a

8:25

Ken costume. He's in

8:27

Australia. And he saw a

8:29

Ken in the wild. Oh my god.

8:31

can't in the wild. He's a chance because I

8:33

can't in the wild. He said, I

8:35

don't think his Barbie's coming.

8:37

It's like

8:40

going out. it's just gonna wear neon

8:42

all

8:42

night. It was surreal. It was

8:44

surreal. So fun. Well, we're definitely gonna get

8:46

into Barbie a little bit before our time

8:48

was up, but I wanted to I

8:50

want to start by asking a question related

8:53

to Lady Bird, which is one

8:55

of my favorite films. Oh,

8:57

thank you. It stars Cheshire Ronan and

8:59

Lori Metcalf. as this, like,

9:01

beautifully complicated daughter and mother

9:03

and so much of, like, the movie's DNA

9:05

is inspired by your childhood growing

9:07

up in Sacramento, California, which

9:09

I think is the city that I think many

9:11

of us don't know that much about.

9:14

But one that you sold so

9:16

beautifully in the movie Can you tell

9:18

me a little bit about Sacramento and

9:20

your childhood there and how

9:22

did it and does it continue to inspire you

9:24

and your work? I love

9:25

Sacramento. I loved growing up there.

9:28

I I mean, I I feel very

9:30

lucky to be from a place.

9:32

I think to have

9:34

deep roots in a place and to have people

9:36

who've known me

9:37

my whole life and to have

9:39

a real almost like

9:41

topography inside of

9:43

myself. And I think in

9:46

a way I I when

9:48

you're growing up and you love art or you

9:51

love writers and I I loved

9:53

novelists and poets and playwrights and they and

9:55

there were so many people who had such a strong

9:57

sense of place that those

9:59

were always

9:59

the people and the writers that I

10:02

gravitated towards whether it was,

10:04

you

10:04

know, Irish writers or, you know,

10:06

Southern writers, like Tennessee Williams, or

10:08

Atul Fuegard was a playwright in

10:10

South Africa. Like, this real

10:13

sense of they are riding

10:15

from somewhere -- Mhmm. -- almost like a

10:17

dispatch from somewhere. But I

10:19

never thought that where

10:21

I was from never

10:24

felt lofty enough somehow.

10:26

I think that's probably

10:28

part of just being young and being a

10:30

child. And then I was

10:32

lucky enough though to have

10:36

good

10:36

teachers give me the

10:38

writer John Didion. I loved John Didion.

10:40

was from Sacramento, and she wrote

10:42

about talk about -- and there was suddenly it was,

10:44

like, a little light bulb one off. And I

10:47

other than just the feeling of, like, you can write

10:49

from where you are. You don't have to

10:51

have had a different life. And I

10:53

think I sort of had always thought,

10:55

like, I'd had

10:55

some kind of idea of,

10:58

I don't know. Dua should just get whatever mythology I

11:00

had from, like, Hemingway or something that

11:02

he, like it was an ambulance driver

11:05

and a bullfighter. Like, I have to do all

11:07

these other things. I was like, well,

11:09

maybe look around and write where you're

11:11

from. Yeah. And so that kind of

11:13

I know, I thought it was sort of

11:15

like the first advice they give you, right, what you

11:17

know. But I think it's somewhat level

11:19

of most Lipa, young

11:21

people, you don't feel that it's

11:24

worthy or something. And then you think,

11:26

well, no. I mean, Checkoff

11:28

only lived in Russia. He wrote about

11:30

Russia. No. You gotta you gotta

11:32

kinda start where you are. So I

11:34

really do wanna go back and make more

11:36

movies there and I will there's

11:39

something about it. It's a city, but it's a

11:41

small city. Its roots

11:43

are in agriculture. It's

11:45

a government town. it

11:47

doesn't feel like the rest of California. It

11:49

certainly does not feel like what people's

11:51

idea of California is.

11:54

and yet it's deeply, deeply California.

11:56

And it's actually,

11:58

I got to go to Joan Didion's funeral memorial

12:02

service not that long ago. Hilton

12:05

now spoke really beautifully at it, and

12:07

he recounted

12:09

a a passage from one of

12:11

her books. And

12:14

it just brought me back

12:16

to to Sacramento

12:18

because she articulated that so

12:21

beautifully is she

12:23

says, I

12:25

remember being taken to call upon a

12:27

very old woman, a rancher's

12:29

widow, who is reminiscing the

12:31

favored conversational mode in Sacramento

12:33

about the son of some contemporary

12:36

of hers. The Johnson Boy never

12:38

did amount too much. She said, my

12:40

mother protested, Alva Johnson, she said,

12:42

had won the Pulitzer prize when he was

12:44

working for The New York Times. our

12:47

hostess looked at us impassively. He

12:49

never amounted to anything in

12:51

Sacramento. And I was I

12:53

was just sitting there and I was like, she got

12:55

she got it. That's exactly

12:57

right. It's, like, this sort of

13:00

regionalism, this sort of, like,

13:03

starlight town kind of Did did you

13:05

did you make it in Sacramento? And

13:07

I I kind of always loved that and that she

13:09

was able to focus in on that. And I

13:11

was reminded again that her memorial

13:13

how much she'd given me permission.

13:15

So I think I would credit her

13:17

really was starting to look at it. And

13:19

then I think it'll be

13:21

something I returned to. I know my roots are so

13:23

deep there. My brother is there with his family.

13:25

And It's I I

13:27

don't know what to say other than it's it's

13:29

mine.

13:29

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's

13:31

so beautifully put it's it's

13:33

interesting because also while I was

13:35

reading some interviews

13:37

and listening to some of your

13:39

interviews as well and you were talking

13:41

about the character in Lady Bird you were

13:43

saying how you know, when

13:45

you're young, you can't help but feel that

13:47

life is happening elsewhere.

13:50

You know, you kind of held back on the fact that

13:52

whatever you were doing, there's something happening. around

13:54

the corner that's much more exciting than what's

13:56

happening in your life

13:58

somehow. But I think this kind

13:59

of idea

14:00

of staying connected to your roots and something

14:02

being yours. You kind of learn to appreciate it

14:04

later on in your life. At least

14:07

maybe that's kind of what I

14:09

feel like I connected so much with the character.

14:11

There are so many bits

14:12

of teenage angst and growing

14:15

up, understanding yourself, that

14:17

you connect with and then you

14:19

go, okay, all these things happen for a

14:21

reason because this is where I was supposed to be

14:23

and these are the things that made me who I

14:25

am and I've connected a

14:27

lot with with a lot of your

14:29

work. So I'll I'll tell you more

14:31

about that as we

14:32

as we go on. Yes.

14:35

But I heard you started writing

14:37

at a really young age, you know, like,

14:39

on buses and chemistry class at

14:41

the dentist's office. Like, do you remember

14:43

what you'd write about or what was inspiring

14:45

you or why is writing just been the thing

14:47

that's remained such a staple in your

14:49

life? I

14:50

mean, for a long time, as

14:52

is true, I don't know, it's not

14:54

particular to me, but a

14:56

lot of my writing when I was

14:58

young, was writing, I

15:00

never showed anyone. I think this

15:02

is changing, and

15:04

it's, you know, different now. But

15:06

I think you know, there's sort of a

15:08

thing, I think, especially when I was growing up. Like,

15:10

if I think if you're a boy who wrote a

15:12

lot, people might say, well, you might wanna be a

15:14

writer. And if you're a girl who

15:16

wrote a lot, they say, well, why don't you

15:18

have this diary with a lock and

15:20

key? Never show anybody. What's

15:22

inside? And true.

15:25

I know it's it's

15:27

like lock it away. I

15:29

thought, gosh, that's just a weird message

15:32

to give girls to

15:34

lock it up. But it

15:36

was my way of digesting the

15:38

world. It was my way

15:40

of kind of being

15:43

being funny, being witty,

15:45

imitating other writers I like. I think it had a

15:47

lot to do with how much I was

15:49

reading as well. And,

15:51

you know, I think as all

15:54

kids and then teenagers are,

15:56

you're not able to come up with the

15:58

funny, wonderful, quippy thing in

15:59

the moment. so then you do it later in your

16:02

notebook. And I

16:04

just I have honestly

16:06

boxes and boxes of writing.

16:08

They weren't really

16:10

journals in a classic sense. They were sort

16:12

of anything. They were kind of

16:14

dialogue for plays

16:15

or it

16:17

was kind of catch all

16:19

for anything that was

16:21

going through my mind. But I

16:24

don't know other than it feels sort of

16:26

compulsive at this point, but I

16:28

don't I can't get

16:30

through the day without if I

16:32

haven't taken something down, it feels like

16:34

I haven't existed that day.

16:36

Oh, wow. So you still do that all

16:38

the time. all the

16:39

time all the time. III

16:42

realize it may sometimes makes other

16:44

people nervous. It makes because

16:46

which I didn't realize till my partner

16:48

know I was like, you know what? It it looks like

16:50

you're just writing about me

16:52

all the time. I was like, oh, I don't

16:54

want to worry. I'm not. I was like, it

16:57

makes you will -- That's so funny.

16:59

-- like, you're in a therapy

17:01

session or something. Exactly.

17:04

So tell me how you feel today.

17:06

I heard your mom

17:08

was a little bit worried about

17:10

your career prospects as a teenager.

17:12

And she encouraged me to come. I

17:14

found this really really funny. a

17:16

certified step, a aerobics instructor, and a

17:19

certified paralegal. I

17:21

was.

17:21

Yes. I love that

17:23

that's I

17:24

really I mean, I guess, yeah, that's

17:26

that's like a stable kind

17:28

of thing. Yes. Yeah.

17:31

She was like, I don't know if it's gonna work out,

17:33

but people will definitely wanna exercise,

17:36

and they would definitely need help organizing

17:38

local documents. small

17:40

I mean, I I get it parents have

17:43

have, you know, when I read that, I thought

17:45

it was really funny because my parents also and

17:47

I was like, I'm gonna do music

17:49

and I just gonna, like, not

17:51

go to university. They're like,

17:53

what the fuck? They're like, usual.

17:55

Can't you just do both? In

17:57

the end, they ended up being, like, super

17:59

supportive and encouraging when I just went

18:01

for it. I'd love to know how your like

18:03

mom and dad encouraged your career that you

18:05

ever know. Yeah. No. It's it's so

18:07

true. I mean, I feel like all parents of

18:10

my a friend of mine trained when he

18:12

was graduating from Yale. I

18:14

remember we grew up together in Sacramento, and

18:16

he

18:16

said there speaker who said, they follow your dreams and

18:18

his dad looked at him and it was like, do

18:20

not follow your dreams.

18:23

We did not pay for you to go to you.

18:25

No. It was and then we were

18:26

just laughing because we were like, oh, we're from the same

18:29

place. And he has followed his dreams

18:30

in his workshop. But

18:32

Honestly, I

18:34

think, you know, it was like a certified

18:37

paralegal, certified stepper aerobics instructor,

18:39

and then being CPRs certified

18:41

every year because if you know CPR, like,

18:43

that, like, puts you in line to do lots of

18:45

things. And I was also a bartender,

18:48

like, anything I could do that

18:50

I could get certified for. I think

18:52

it was important that it feel like

18:54

I have some way to be gainfully employed.

18:57

Dua then, you know,

18:59

I think so, like, so many

19:02

people, which I totally understand, is for

19:04

them, I did go

19:06

to college. And I

19:08

I went to a liberal arts school, and

19:10

I

19:10

majored in

19:12

English

19:12

literature and philosophy.

19:15

And I I

19:17

didn't I I knew at

19:19

that point that I really wanted to be,

19:21

you know, for lack of a better word

19:23

with show Lipa. with actors

19:26

and and directors and the set

19:28

design. I wanted to be around theater and

19:30

movies. That's what I loved.

19:33

But I think, you know, understandably,

19:35

I think they had a real sense like,

19:38

isn't there a degree you could

19:40

get for that? Like, you

19:42

go to, you know, graduate

19:45

school? So I applied to graduate

19:47

school, to three different

19:49

graduate schools. for playwriting. And

19:51

he didn't get into any of them.

19:53

And I think at that point, they were

19:55

like, well, I think that seems like

19:57

a sign. This

19:59

is not You don't seem to be doing

20:01

this very well. But

20:03

I I think in the end

20:05

for me, it was lucky that I I didn't

20:07

get in because I think

20:09

it It sped up the part where I had to

20:11

bet on myself -- Mhmm. -- I suppose,

20:14

because

20:14

I didn't have

20:16

anyone telling

20:18

me that it looked really that promising.

20:21

Yeah. So it was a I

20:23

didn't have a piece of paper and anything

20:25

official. So I

20:27

kind of had to cobble it together. But

20:30

I I, you know, I I was very lucky with

20:32

the people I was in contact with in New York

20:34

and who were working in theater

20:37

and film and it is sort of a

20:39

learn on your feet thing anyway.

20:41

I mean, if I'd gotten into grad

20:43

school, I'm sure it would have been wonderful

20:46

too, but Yeah.

20:46

It was part of your journey. leap.

20:49

Yeah. Yeah. III

20:52

enrolled to, like,

20:53

singing drama, like, performance school.

20:56

in London as well. And I

20:58

got turned down and I appealed and I got

21:00

turned down again. And

21:05

I was like, oh my

21:07

god. Like, why is this

21:09

happening to me? Like, clearly, not good

21:11

enough. And

21:11

I just wanted, you know, I just wanted to sing, and I

21:13

was like, you know, when I play the cello, when I

21:15

can do this, and it was a nightmare,

21:17

and they still didn't want me. And I was

21:19

like, fuck, like, maybe this isn't

21:21

for me, but I think those those moments

21:23

of getting turned down, like you

21:26

said, push you to make the leap and just go,

21:28

okay, no one else's believing

21:30

in me is that I have to get out there and believe in myself,

21:32

and I have to just put myself out there and do

21:34

something that I'm I'm really, really

21:36

passionate about and It's also interesting to

21:39

hear all the other different jobs

21:41

that you did because it sounds like you're

21:43

quite quite the polymath in the

21:45

way that I bring all these things have

21:47

helped you become who you are, whether

21:49

it's in your in your acting, in your

21:51

writing, in your directing, I think all

21:53

these moments in your life, all these

21:55

paths have really shaped who you are and how you navigate

21:58

through life. And, you know, I'm one of

21:59

many, many fans of your

22:02

beautiful movies and performance citizen.

22:04

I'd love to just, you

22:06

know, you said that you'd like to be

22:09

around show people, like, how is

22:11

it that you first got into the

22:13

entertainment business? like

22:15

you once told the director, Francis

22:17

Ford Coppola, that you thought as a

22:19

child that movies were handed and

22:21

down by So tell me,

22:23

like, when does

22:24

your relationship with movies

22:25

begin? And, you

22:28

know, why did it take you over the course of,

22:30

like, your early years?

22:32

Well,

22:32

movies were actually they

22:34

did seem to hand it down by God.

22:36

We grew up without

22:39

television are really going to the movies,

22:42

so I didn't see a bunch of

22:44

movies growing up. My parents were

22:46

very good about taking

22:48

me to theater, which is what I was interested

22:50

in, most of all, and dance

22:52

and music. But I I watched

22:54

a ton of theater They,

22:56

you know, they would drive me to the Bay and we

22:58

would see productions that there's

23:00

a theater Berkeley rep, which is

23:02

great in AC tea, which

23:04

is also great, and there's a Shakespeare Festival in Oregon

23:07

that we'd go to. I was

23:09

seeing a great deal

23:11

of theater very obsessed with theater, but

23:13

didn't really have a feeling about

23:15

film until I got

23:17

to college

23:17

in New York and it was the first

23:19

time I'd been in a city that had

23:22

movie theaters that were showing

23:24

old movies in Repertory. and

23:26

there were a few movie theaters. There was the film

23:28

forum downtown, anthology film

23:31

archives, the museum

23:32

of moving image, and

23:34

then Momo would do

23:36

screenings of movies. And then there

23:38

was a video store that no

23:41

longer Gerwig. called Kim's

23:43

video, which was

23:45

great. It had tons of movies. It it

23:47

was actually there was a Kim's

23:49

uptown and a Kim's downtown, it

23:51

was all organized by director. Mhmm. So you

23:53

wouldn't say, like,

23:54

oh, I wanna see a comedy or I wanna see

23:56

a, you know, a thriller. you'd

23:59

have to know who

23:59

the director

24:00

was. And that sort of re centered

24:03

everything. So I was going to movies

24:05

all the time in the city, and then I

24:07

kind of started just

24:09

working my way through different directors

24:11

and realizing, like, oh, you really

24:14

love, you know, Howard Hawks or you really

24:16

love Robert Altman. or

24:18

oh, you're interested in Chantal Ackerman.

24:20

Like, it suddenly things started to

24:22

connect differently about -- Mhmm. --

24:24

know, really, like, cinema, but, like, the

24:26

truly wears the author.

24:29

And, yeah, I remember the Kim's

24:31

downtown actually had It

24:33

was so snobby. It had it it was wonderful.

24:36

They they had a pornography section

24:38

which was also organized by a net director.

24:40

I was like, who's who

24:43

knows who a porn director? Like, that's, like,

24:46

so intense and amazing, but

24:48

and the and the oh, the clerks who

24:50

worked at Kims were also, like,

24:52

great. because they were really

24:55

judgmental about what you rented.

24:57

But if they thought you were sort of

24:59

interested in interesting things, they'd point you

25:01

in the right direction. they were

25:03

sort of like yeah. Like record store and

25:05

put like, I I mean, they sold records too,

25:07

but, like, for movies, they just

25:09

knew a lot. That's funny. So I

25:11

started falling in love with movies, and I

25:13

think the movie that sort of stood for me,

25:16

clinched it rather. Is this

25:18

movie Claire Denis made a movie

25:20

called bolevy. And that was the

25:22

movie that I saw that it

25:24

really hit me that cinema was

25:27

just a totally different art

25:29

form. and it had its own language and

25:31

that I didn't speak it,

25:33

but I really wanted to. And

25:35

I think that that that's

25:38

really never gone away. I think that that's

25:40

the thing I feel

25:42

like is the

25:44

someone told me,

25:46

oh, you never want the mountain to be

25:48

behind you? It's always good to

25:50

have a mountain in front of you. And I feel like cinema

25:52

as a language is something

25:55

that I feel that I I'll

25:57

never quite have my hands fully

25:59

around, which is part of

26:01

what makes it satisfying.

26:04

that's a really good way to put it. And I love that

26:06

because it's really visual as well. And I think

26:08

for as long as you feel that way, then you're

26:10

probably in exactly the right place, you

26:13

know. Yeah. As long as

26:15

you feel like you have something new to

26:17

conquer and something to reach

26:19

for. It's cool. Okay.

26:21

I've not heard I've not had that before now. I'm like,

26:24

fuck yeah. I still feel like

26:25

that about music. So that's

26:27

good. Yeah. I know it's good. it's

26:29

a good thing. Yeah. I mean, that doesn't really answer

26:31

how I got into it, but I guess it answers how

26:33

did I get interested. Yeah. How

26:35

did you go interested in how how that

26:37

I think when I

26:40

was researching for our chat

26:41

today, I learned

26:42

about an Aaron Cinema that I

26:44

hadn't heard about. called Mumble Core.

26:48

And I guess it was quite a funny

26:50

name, actually. When you first

26:52

started acting with roles like,

26:54

hand it takes the stairs and nights and weekends. Yeah.

26:57

Critics kinda just put you into

26:59

this, like, mumble course scene,

27:01

which I

27:01

saw it described as, like, a

27:03

style of low budget film, like,

27:05

characterized

27:05

with non professional actors and

27:08

naturalistic or improvised performances.

27:11

And one critic even said that your cooling

27:13

card was seemingly unrehearsed

27:15

screen presence. Like,

27:17

did you feel like that

27:19

sort of labeling of your

27:21

career was dismissive of of the work that

27:23

you were making? Like, did it ever make you want

27:26

to push back against that

27:28

perhaps? Or like, the expectations

27:30

that suddenly been put on you as as someone at, like,

27:32

the forefront of mongol core. Yes.

27:35

didn't

27:38

really ever set out to be

27:40

the the

27:43

fourth to fourth run of

27:45

of mumbo corps. I

27:47

just To be honest, I was I

27:49

don't want to say have it because now

27:51

in in hindsight, everything kind of

27:53

fits together in a certain way. But

27:56

at the time, again, I was, you know, applying and

27:58

getting rejected from graduate schools, but

28:01

I was also

28:04

starting to make things, like a

28:06

really, really rudimentary

28:08

early short films and

28:11

small projects

28:11

I was just doing on my own with

28:13

my friends, and that was all possible because

28:16

digital movie cameras became

28:19

a lot

28:19

cheaper and more available and

28:23

better around two thousand five, two

28:25

thousand six, and final

28:27

cut editing software that

28:29

was widely available and you could teach

28:31

yourself how to do it. And

28:33

I think for me, it was I

28:36

mean, this certainly wasn't

28:38

making my living, doing

28:40

these films part of in a way,

28:42

it felt extremely free, it felt extremely

28:45

experimental, it was

28:47

a thing I was very committed

28:49

to at the time. I

28:52

really was interested in where

28:54

scenes could go if you were

28:56

given kind of a character and a

28:58

scenario with no lines. And I think it

29:00

was kind of maybe my

29:02

own rebellion against theater where language is everything.

29:06

And it was a

29:08

very sort of organic yeah.

29:10

I just keep going back to the word

29:12

experimentation, but I met some

29:15

wonderful people and friends who

29:17

also took it really seriously.

29:19

And, you know, in

29:21

two thousand six at

29:23

South by Southwest Film Festival,

29:26

I met Josh Safdy,

29:28

who made he and his brother

29:30

made uncut gems and

29:33

lots of other movies. But in good

29:35

times, we feel like that that yeah.

29:38

And they're great. I mean, they're

29:40

incredible filmmakers. And, you know, we

29:42

were both twenty one, twenty two, and

29:44

just really interested in movies,

29:46

and they were making stuff. And I was making

29:48

stuff. And then it kind of

29:50

just started plugging into the

29:52

scene of people who were working

29:54

day jobs,

29:56

making movies, kind

29:58

of fearlessly trying

29:59

things out. And so

30:02

cool. I think it was just it

30:04

felt like if in some ways the

30:06

sort of official academic theater doors seemed closed

30:09

to me. Filmmaking

30:11

seemed like the Wild West and it seemed like

30:13

anything was possible. And

30:16

so it was really just III

30:18

went through a whole period Dua my life where I was

30:20

just saying yes

30:22

to everything. It wasn't strategic.

30:24

I didn't worry about how it would be

30:26

received. It was shocking to me that anyone

30:28

was looking at these movies at

30:30

all. I remember even when an agent called and

30:32

they wanted to be my agent. I was like,

30:34

go ahead. I don't know. I

30:37

don't I was doing I don't know what I'm doing. Like, this

30:39

is this is all an experiment, and I

30:41

but then I I started going on proper

30:44

auditions. because

30:46

I I was like, alright. Well, I'll try to do this,

30:48

and I don't think I'd booked a single

30:50

job that way, which was

30:52

but I got better at auditioning, and I

30:55

and I I enjoyed memorizing

30:57

lots of scenes for

31:00

pilots and stuff that never got

31:02

picked up. And it was like my

31:04

hobby was auditioning. But,

31:07

yeah, it was It was a funny but there was all kinds of

31:09

things. Now I'm legitimately old. And I

31:12

can look back and there was also a

31:14

time because the Internet was

31:16

different than and people thought

31:18

that web content was

31:20

different than other content. So

31:22

they would hire kids who were like

31:24

twenty three, twenty four to

31:26

make web shows, which was a

31:29

thing, which sounds like

31:31

nobody nobody got like just

31:33

web content. So

31:35

there was, like, movies and then that and it was,

31:37

you know, nobody was really

31:40

it was, like, we were

31:42

all unofficial. then one day, we all looked around and we were like,

31:45

did we when did we get official?

31:47

Yeah. It sounds like they're

31:49

even, like, freeing

31:50

experience, you know? And it's so

31:53

it's just so cool to hear you hear

31:55

you talk about it, especially now, like,

31:57

looking at your incredible career and just being

31:59

Lipa, fuck. Like, you have to go through

32:01

the motions and do the things that you love and the things

32:03

that you're passionate about in the moment.

32:06

And then not to necessarily have to

32:08

be a strategy behind everything.

32:10

I love Like, are you saying how, like,

32:12

someone wanted to be your agent? And you're saying,

32:14

like, fuck yeah. Go ahead.

32:16

Let's see let's see what happens.

32:19

It's it's really cool, and I think it's super

32:21

inspiring to to hear you talk about that.

32:23

And and I know that there have been, like, a

32:25

couple of big big projects that you

32:27

set to be a part of that didn't ultimately

32:29

move forward -- Mhmm. -- including

32:32

HBO's adaptation of

32:34

Jonathan Francis. novel the corrections.

32:36

And later, a

32:38

spin off of how I met your mother called how

32:40

I met your dad. Yeah. Like tell me

32:42

a little bit about like, how

32:44

you look at those kind of objections now,

32:46

years later? Like, how did they help inform

32:49

or inspire what you did next?

32:51

Yeah. The

32:51

corrections was sad because I really

32:54

loved the book and and Noel was

32:56

working on it and it was it was

32:58

something that I thought

33:00

could have been really neat and

33:02

exciting, but I don't know. I don't know

33:04

if hindsight's twenty

33:06

twenty, but I think I always

33:08

had a feeling that it

33:10

wasn't going to happen. And I wasn't

33:12

sure why I had that feeling, but I kind

33:14

of thought, I don't know that this isn't

33:16

gonna work. But I do remember I

33:18

get to act with Ewan

33:20

McGregor, which was very exciting. Oh.

33:22

It made me feel like I was a real

33:25

actor.

33:25

And so

33:26

that was that was neat. And then yeah.

33:29

It's so funny. I how about your

33:31

dad? I really had really loved the

33:33

show how I met your mother and I thought it

33:35

was really sweet and funny and

33:37

I didn't know exactly what I

33:39

was gonna do or where I was gonna go

33:42

and It was something that came up and I was a fan of

33:44

their writing. And I

33:46

said, well, I might be interested in writing on

33:48

it too. And it was

33:50

actually a really exciting fun

33:53

process because it still exists, but

33:55

it's different now. The kind

33:57

of classic sitcom writing and

33:59

the classic sitcom

34:01

structure on

34:02

network television?

34:04

And it has a very specific way

34:06

I mean, how about your dad wasn't

34:09

filmed with a live audience that they did

34:11

have a laugh track, but it was shot sort

34:13

of in the same way,

34:15

like, multicam. So It's almost like a

34:18

vaudvillian theater thing. Lake and

34:20

you're writing

34:22

hard jokes to commercial.

34:24

So you there's, like, the jokes that end and

34:26

it's, you know, you see it on friends or on

34:28

Seinfeld all the time. Is there writing to

34:30

these commercial breaks? And even though it

34:33

didn't happen, I felt like it it sort of focused

34:35

my energy and it made me really

34:37

happy to be part of because

34:39

it felt like Again, it was

34:41

like show people. It's like this really

34:44

interesting specific art form,

34:46

which is the half hour network

34:48

television sitcom and it's really rigorous and

34:51

it's really demanding. Mhmm. And

34:53

it has these very clear

34:56

parameters and it

34:58

got me out of a rut I was in, I think, artistically,

35:00

at that moment. And I

35:02

then I later heard they took the

35:04

show to Vegas to test it, and

35:07

they sit with these knobs. And they if

35:10

they like something, they turn the knob to the

35:12

right. And if they don't like it, they turn

35:14

it to the left. And every time barely every

35:16

time

35:16

I came on screen.

35:18

Everybody turned turned

35:19

their knob to the left. And then

35:21

they were like,

35:22

never mind. We're not gonna move forward

35:24

with this show. And I think I

35:26

think someone wrote wrote a card that was, like, why would

35:29

you ever

35:29

make a show up this

35:32

woman?

35:32

So if But

35:35

But honestly, it's a world that I

35:37

hadn't been part of, and

35:39

it was, I don't know,

35:40

it's fun to be in there for a

35:44

second. Yeah.

35:44

I guess, again, like, I think a a recurring theme that

35:47

that has been happening during

35:49

this whole conversation is, like,

35:51

all these experiences bring

35:53

you to to where you are now.

35:56

Who's this? Now.

35:57

Exactly. And Lipa, I

35:59

didn't start out because I just loved

36:02

I loved again, I

36:04

loved writers, I loved actors, I loved directors, I

36:06

loved theater, I loved

36:07

film, I loved show Lipa. Mhmm. And

36:10

I didn't have a real strong sense

36:12

of there's one future and

36:14

one way that this is gonna work out. And if

36:16

it doesn't work out, this way, I'm gonna

36:18

be devastated. I just

36:20

loved being around it.

36:22

And so I figured, well,

36:24

you know, even if I can't be a

36:26

writer or even if I can't be you

36:28

know,

36:28

director or the actor or

36:30

something. They've got a lot of jobs

36:32

on movie

36:33

sets. I could do one of

36:36

them. I don't have this sense of like, oh, this is off of

36:38

what my dream is. Mhmm. Anytime

36:40

I'm with show people, that

36:42

was always my dream.

36:44

I'll be back with

36:46

Greta Gerwig after

36:48

this very short break.

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the upcoming Barbie movie. You know, you were

39:09

initially attached to it as a writer and not

39:11

as a director, but you've ended

39:13

up directing both. And I have to tell you

39:15

that when I watch

39:17

little women.

39:19

It's wrecked

39:21

me. Like, honestly,

39:24

right now through

39:26

the film. I was bawling uncontrollably.

39:28

And I kept checking to see.

39:30

I was like, oh my god, how much

39:33

longer is this movie? because

39:35

normally, I would cry at the end of the film,

39:37

and this one got me all the way halfway

39:40

through and all the way to the end. It was like

39:42

a purging. I literally, I finished

39:44

watching the movie. My face was

39:46

twice the size. I was

39:48

completely swollen. It was

39:50

just it was just brilliant.

39:52

Like, I I love love

39:54

love your version so much.

39:56

Thank you. I mean, there are just so many

39:58

moments. Again, like,

39:59

Sherish's character somehow

40:02

just gets me in in so

40:04

many different ways. I

40:05

mean, there's one moment when she goes, like,

40:08

I'd rather be

40:08

a free spinster and paddle my own

40:10

canoe I mean, timing -- No.

40:13

-- rapped me. I was

40:15

like, of course. I know.

40:17

She, like, wants to go out of

40:19

her dreams and just like, right. When you go

40:21

to New York and I say it's just it was

40:23

it was intense for

40:26

sure. Honestly, Sarsha

40:28

in that scene killed me when we were shooting it because

40:30

she's talking to

40:31

Emma, who's her sister, Watson,

40:33

and she's like, It's

40:35

like right before her sister's wedding and she's like,

40:38

let's go. Yeah. Let's go. We gotta

40:40

go. We can't Greta married.

40:42

And I And there's

40:44

something about it. And the way she was so

40:46

anxious that she remembered she had

40:48

this line, like, you're gonna be bored of

40:50

him in five years and will be

40:52

interesting forever. I know. And I just,

40:54

like, the way she said it, I was, like,

40:56

oh, she kills me. So

40:58

I'm glad you were also

41:00

killed.

41:00

Yeah. Yeah. She killed me. But it

41:02

was so specialized, like, oh my god. Like,

41:04

I love being able to feel

41:06

so much and to have the opportunity to do that. And just

41:09

to, like, I don't know, sometimes

41:11

you just need something like

41:14

that to just help you

41:16

release everything that you were holding

41:18

in. But I wanna know, like, for

41:20

you, what's, like, different

41:22

and fulfilling about each

41:24

role, like acting, writing,

41:26

directing. Mhmm. What does one give you

41:28

that that

41:29

others don't?

41:32

well Well, I

41:34

I mean, I think it for me, everything

41:36

comes back to writing because

41:38

I don't

41:39

know.

41:40

It's the place where I'm

41:43

i'm I mean,

41:45

I'm, you know, euphoric and

41:47

terrified doing all of them. but

41:49

it's the place I'm most deeply aware of

41:51

all of the voices that are rattling

41:53

inside that tell me not to do it,

41:55

and then it's

41:58

the most triumphant

42:00

when I am able to kind

42:03

of, you know,

42:04

slay

42:06

the dragon self doubt and go in and get something

42:09

out of it. It feels like it's

42:11

the key for me. You

42:14

know, for me, especially growing up acting and and

42:16

how much I loved theater. I

42:18

I think in a

42:20

way,

42:21

the get away it

42:22

was a way to embody the words that I

42:24

loved when I memorized them and

42:26

acted them and even being in, you know,

42:29

student productions of great

42:32

plays. You know, you memorize them

42:34

and then you you take them into

42:36

yourself in some way. And I was

42:39

actually just I was reading

42:41

There

42:41

was an article about Bob Dillon in

42:43

the New Yorker,

42:45

and he's

42:47

talking about where his songs come from. And he said, like, these songs didn't

42:50

come out of thin air. I didn't make

42:52

them up out of hold cloth.

42:54

It came out of

42:56

traditional music. traditional folk music, traditional rock and roll, traditional

42:58

big band swing orchestra

43:00

music. If you sing John Henry as many

43:02

times as

43:04

me, John Henry was a steel driving man, died with a hammer in

43:06

his hand. John Henry said a man ain't nothing

43:08

but a Before I let

43:12

that steam drilled drive me down. I'll die with that hammer in my

43:14

hand. If you had sung that song as

43:16

many times as I did, you'd have written

43:19

how many roads would must a man walk down

43:22

to? And I was like,

43:24

that's right. You

43:26

memorize them. You take them into yourself

43:29

and then the acts of writing feels

43:32

like talking back

43:34

to it or continuing that line.

43:37

Lipa, and that's And I

43:39

was like, he's right. It's it's and there's something about,

43:41

you know, I'm not a musician, so I don't

43:43

know what it feels like.

43:46

but singing other people's songs

43:48

is like

43:49

memorizing other people's words and

43:51

acting them like Greta

43:53

it gives

43:53

you an access point to then

43:56

start baking things up out of your

43:58

own core. So I would

44:00

imagine it's the same thing, but I spent a lot

44:02

of time memorizing

44:04

all kinds of texts from

44:06

Carol Churchill to Kenneth Longergan

44:08

to Shakespeare to check off.

44:12

And, you know, I didn't know that I was the

44:14

best person to do any of that

44:16

stuff, but the rhythms got

44:18

into me and the kind of

44:20

desire to write, came out of

44:22

that, and

44:22

then directing is just

44:25

the I

44:26

still feel like I'm an elementary speaker.

44:28

That's the language. And

44:31

I no. No. It's

44:34

it's true though. It's but it's like wonderful. And

44:36

then it what's so great about it is it's so hard. And then

44:38

I see other people's movies and

44:41

I I love the way they speak

44:44

it, and it's like I it

44:46

deepens my enjoyment of watching other people's

44:48

movies is trying to make them myself.

44:52

But

44:52

in in a in a way, I don't know, I

44:54

always had

44:54

an access point with words, which

44:57

was, well, even if

44:59

I can't make perfect ones today. I can

45:01

memorize something and and then it'll

45:03

be a way to get to my own. I

45:05

don't know if with music, I I always imagine

45:07

you could if you don't have your own song, you

45:09

could maybe, like, play someone else's song for a

45:12

little while. see if that

45:14

would be something in you. Yeah. And

45:16

I think, you know, just being

45:17

moved by something that you

45:20

love or you know,

45:22

someone's tech, someone's lyrics, someone's

45:24

story, you get so inspired. You

45:26

know, a lot of the time, I I

45:28

mean, I I get so. inspired

45:31

by

45:31

artists that

45:33

have quite a lot

45:35

of, I don't know, like,

45:37

self doubt or some, like, darkness

45:39

to it. And I'm like, god.

45:40

Yeah. Oh my god. I'm like, I

45:42

know I

45:43

have to feel this much

45:45

pain to be good at what I do is sometimes what I

45:47

think and, you know, it's

45:49

very interesting, like, sometimes

45:52

impostor syndrome.

45:54

can also can also get the get the better

45:56

of me especially when I'm writing

45:58

my own stuff, but I do I

46:01

I find it really inspiring also

46:04

to to listen to other people's work as well. Do you find

46:06

often that directing your own

46:08

writing is more satisfying than turning

46:11

it over to someone else? Well,

46:14

I've

46:14

ever yeah. I

46:17

mean, I think we'll put through the

46:19

process of writing something I fall in love with it, and

46:21

then I wanna be the one who tries to

46:23

interpret it. I mean, there's something about, like, when

46:26

I've written with Noah

46:28

and he's

46:30

directed Dua little part of

46:32

me feels at ease because I

46:34

think, well, he's a great director,

46:36

so he'll do it really well.

46:38

Like, it is, like, giving giving up a child for

46:40

adoption being like, they'll have a

46:42

better life for you. You're

46:46

that this will be nice for them. But think for

46:50

me, it's what you were talking about sort

46:52

of an impostor

46:54

syndrome or or feeling

46:56

inadequate is I

46:58

think it's Yeah. I mean, I always

47:00

feel that with, you know, directing its But

47:03

doing anything in writing, you know, it's this like,

47:05

who

47:05

am I to do

47:07

this? And why do I think I

47:09

can do this? And then

47:12

I think you kind of come to

47:15

a place where you think, well, even

47:17

if it's inadequate and even if

47:19

it's a poor version

47:22

of

47:22

something, it will

47:24

be mine. Mhmm. And that feels

47:26

worth it. Even if

47:29

it's got a bunch of flaws. They'll be mine,

47:31

and I'll be able to

47:33

say that's a piece of

47:36

me as imperfect as

47:38

it may. B. Anything that I've fallen in love with

47:40

deeply, III end up

47:42

directing, I think, at this point. And also, I

47:44

think, at this point now that

47:46

I've directed now writing

47:48

sort of functions slightly differently

47:50

because now I'm thinking about directing.

47:52

Mhmm. So

47:52

I think it inevitably

47:54

changes the way you

47:56

write. after you've been through the process of what

47:58

it is to shoot it and edit

47:59

it and

47:59

put it together,

48:02

then you kind of

48:04

look at it more functionally than you did

48:06

before. And I think

48:07

that so now when I

48:09

know I'm going to

48:11

really

48:11

write something. I'm

48:14

already thinking about how I'm sort of shadow

48:16

boxing the whole

48:16

thing as a director. That's

48:20

really interesting. because, yeah, I guess, it it will just, like, shift and change, but

48:22

I I hadn't imagined that, I

48:24

guess, the writing process will

48:26

then change in terms of how you

48:28

think about directing it in

48:30

my head, obviously, because I

48:32

haven't done either. It just feels

48:34

like, you know, you're

48:36

almost like, molds

48:38

one to the other, but I guess they do

48:40

go hand in hand. And

48:42

you've talked so much about

48:45

the filmmakers and like creatives

48:47

that inspire you when you were first getting your

48:49

start in the movie business. But I'm

48:51

gonna ask you to I guess, maybe,

48:53

like, look inward now. Like, how how does that

48:55

feel knowing so many young women look up to

48:57

you and are inspired by

49:00

you and Are there any

49:02

stories that you've heard from fans have moved to

49:04

you? Oh,

49:05

yeah. I mean, I've been given

49:07

really, really beautiful letters

49:09

by

49:10

mostly young

49:11

women who are,

49:12

you know, aspiring

49:13

filmmakers or writers

49:16

because I live in New York, there

49:18

are a lot of you know, really

49:20

brilliant young women who

49:22

are starting to make their way. And to

49:24

some of those they stopped me and we

49:26

talked and it's very wonder I

49:29

honestly, it's very wonderful. I mean, god, I

49:32

mean,

49:32

on my inside, I

49:34

don't

49:34

feel different from this.

49:37

you know, whatever you're making,

49:39

you've never made this thing. So you're

49:41

brand new at this. And, you

49:43

know, you've never made this

49:45

movie or this song or this anything. You

49:47

don't know. And so it

49:50

keeps you in a

49:52

state of that same

49:55

the thing that they feel like, how is this

49:57

possible?

49:58

How how do you do

50:00

it? I think

50:02

I feel that all the time. So

50:04

-- Yeah. -- it's it's sort of

50:06

a kind of a feedback loop, but I

50:08

I think from I I'm I'm inspired

50:10

by them. I also think young

50:12

women have also,

50:13

you know, now I'm

50:15

I'm I'm gonna be,

50:16

you know, a properly middle aged

50:18

woman like I'm a mom and

50:22

I I feel that

50:24

young women are so

50:26

light years ahead of where I

50:28

was and I'm so impressed when I meet

50:31

twenty one year olds who

50:34

just have such a

50:36

beautiful way of looking at the

50:38

world and so much more evolved.

50:40

And I I feel

50:41

like I I feel lucky because

50:43

I think

50:44

they're all

50:46

gonna be making films

50:48

and contributing art, and then I'll

50:50

get to live in the world that

50:52

has them. Like, I can't somebody said

50:54

to me who is actually in business. You

50:57

said,

50:57

you're not doing it. Right? If you're

51:00

not

51:00

you're not looking to

51:04

replace yourself. You're like, what's the next group? And

51:06

I think they're just from all

51:08

the interactions I've had, I just think they're

51:12

just knocking they're knocking at

51:14

the door. So and they're

51:16

I mean, forget knocking at the door. I don't

51:18

know. They're building their own castles. it's

51:20

really inspiring. And they're not waiting for permission,

51:23

which is great. I

51:24

think that's really cool to

51:28

Yeah.

51:28

To hear you say that. And also I feel like, yeah,

51:30

you're right. It it is really refreshing

51:32

to see how, like, younger generations

51:34

have such an interesting outlook.

51:37

on life. I see it with my

51:39

siblings

51:39

who are younger than me.

51:42

And I think just the way that they

51:44

think is so much more

51:46

evolved, you know, my brother's sixteen,

51:48

and he I feel like at sixteen,

51:50

he knows so much more than or

51:52

so much

51:54

more interested. in the way things world same

51:56

with my sister. I don't know.

51:58

The world is kind of maybe it's the

51:59

Internet, maybe it's the way that we've,

52:02

like, evolved. people.

52:04

I don't

52:05

Lipa. But it's it's really interesting and

52:07

really

52:07

refreshing and inspiring as well. But

52:10

what strikes me

52:12

also is

52:13

you know, the representation

52:14

of women maybe in

52:15

the business and in this

52:18

industry and how maybe, yes,

52:20

we are so evolved and

52:22

maybe building our own castles, but not necessarily getting

52:24

the recognition of the space that

52:26

we deserve maybe.

52:30

And your first

52:30

two solo directorial movies, you know, Lady

52:32

Bird

52:32

and little women were nominated for best

52:34

picture at the Academy Awards. And

52:37

yet, very few women seven,

52:39

I I read, have ever been

52:42

nominated for Best

52:42

Director at the Oscars -- Mhmm. -- of

52:44

which you were the fifth.

52:46

And I'd love to know

52:48

what you make of that as the rare woman that has been nominated for

52:50

both categories. And I'd love to know

52:52

how Hollywood and these award shows could

52:56

in your opinion become a more inclusive sphere?

52:58

Yeah. Well, I

53:00

think it's been,

53:02

you

53:03

know, every year

53:04

It's something

53:05

that I

53:07

have a tremendous

53:10

amount

53:10

of

53:11

you know,

53:12

have have frustration with

53:14

because, you know, every year I've

53:17

seen movies by

53:19

women that I feel should

53:21

be held in same esteem with the same

53:23

reverence. And luckily, sometimes

53:26

they are

53:28

and sometimes things

53:30

poke through and sometimes things gather

53:32

steam. And I think it's happening a

53:35

lot more lately has

53:37

been happening a lot more lately and,

53:39

you know, I feel like with no mad land. And there's,

53:41

like, there's been moments where

53:43

it feels like it's

53:46

feeling like there's momentum in that direction,

53:48

which is, you know, extraordinary. And

53:51

I think it

53:53

it sort of slowly Lipa then

53:55

all at once. I think we're starting to get into the all

53:58

at

53:59

once moment.

54:02

I

54:02

I you know, I think now I mean, I

54:04

guess the only way I can look at it is, like, when I

54:07

was a teenager, I don't know

54:09

that I could have named

54:12

five female

54:13

directors. Mhmm.

54:14

Yeah. I probably couldn't. And when

54:16

I look at the landscape now, I just that's just not true.

54:18

I mean, we have enough female directors.

54:21

It feels like you have something

54:23

to pick and choose from. You know,

54:25

you can say, I'm I'm interested in this kind and not this kind or I like this

54:27

get this kind of movie and not that kind of Dua

54:30

doesn't feel like, well,

54:32

you've got you've got

54:34

one. So if you don't like her, that's

54:36

it. I think, you know, young women today

54:38

could probably point to, you know, twenty

54:40

female

54:40

directors, which is you know,

54:42

so

54:42

much better than than where it

54:44

had been. I don't

54:46

know other than it feels

54:48

like a lot of really smart,

54:50

well meaning people

54:52

are trying to open doors and keep

54:54

them open. And they're doing it in

54:56

ways, like, I mean, I have to say,

54:58

I'm

54:59

just my one person. But,

55:01

you know, Margot Robbie

55:02

was her company, a

55:06

lucky chap, that was,

55:07

you know, she was

55:10

really founded

55:10

with her and Tom and

55:12

Josie, they they they're in

55:15

their missions statement that they wanted to make

55:18

movies, you know, produced by women,

55:19

directed by women, written

55:21

by women and know, they made Emerald

55:23

Reynolds first movie. They're gonna make her a second movie. Like, they're doing it. You know,

55:26

they're they're and it's things like

55:28

that where

55:30

I'm like, you know, again, Margo

55:32

is building her own castle,

55:34

and and

55:34

Hollywood is responding. And, you

55:37

know, she made THEY MADE

55:40

AITANIA AND SHE'S FINDING THESE RULES AND

55:42

THESE THINGS THAT OTHER

55:44

PEOPLE WEREN'T AND

55:46

THEN SHE'S making them and championing them and and

55:48

it's happening in mass

55:50

numbers and it's happening all over.

55:52

And I think that that

55:54

those kinds of things, it's just I mean,

55:57

this sounds so dull to say.

55:59

But to

55:59

me, it's really it's a

56:02

numbers game. if

56:04

you only have if you have, let's say, I mean, there's more movies than

56:06

this made a year, but let's say you have two hundred

56:08

movies made a year. And,

56:10

then you know you know, twenty

56:12

of them are directed by women.

56:14

Well, that you've got

56:15

a better shot. And then if

56:17

you only have five, but

56:19

you're gonna get like, the more women who

56:21

are directing movies, the more chance

56:24

that, you know, the next masterpiece

56:26

will be directed by

56:28

a woman. a woman. Like, I you know,

56:30

men make a lot of them.

56:32

Yeah. If you get a lot of shots, it's like -- Yeah. --

56:34

something else does a

56:36

little bit. Yeah. And it's but

56:38

it really is, like, put the numbers up. Put the numbers

56:40

up. Put the numbers up. And and I

56:42

find that's true in individual female filmmakers'

56:44

lives, and also just in in general,

56:47

It's not just a numbers game,

56:49

but the numbers do contribute to

56:51

the likelihood that there's a

56:53

good outcome.

56:54

As just as a

56:56

matter of, curiosity for me. Natalie Bowman had your

56:58

name -- Mhmm. -- among other women's names

57:00

and embroidered on her Oscar's gown --

57:02

Mhmm. -- the year that,

57:03

like, no

57:06

women. including you, though you were eligible for

57:08

little women, you know, to

57:09

be nominated for the best

57:12

director, like,

57:14

What did you take away from

57:16

that moment from Natalie's, like, small act of protest?

57:18

Well, I I mean,

57:20

I I

57:22

adore that. I I actually got to work with her once and

57:25

I just love her. I

57:27

mean, she's I I got to work with her and

57:29

then we became friends and

57:32

It was beautiful what she did, and it was also I

57:34

mean, she it's Timmy. She's

57:37

she's directed. She's

57:40

produced. She's,

57:42

you know, obviously, a brilliant

57:44

actor. She's, you know,

57:46

a brilliant woman

57:48

all around. And I think her

57:51

moment of doing that

57:54

was it was like this wonderful

57:56

artistic way

57:58

to say, it

57:58

was noticed and I noticed. And it was

57:59

like a it was a, you

58:02

know, like a beautiful acknowledgement

58:04

that of

58:06

that way.

58:06

like a moment of solidarity or

58:08

most. Just Yes. I

58:10

don't

58:11

know. To me, the times that

58:13

have meant most me in a while,

58:15

of course, you know, it's nothing

58:17

but flattering to be

58:19

nominated for awards.

58:20

Of course. But pure recognition

58:22

I I think is

58:24

even more wonderful. You

58:27

know, the economy, it is

58:29

it is your peers and

58:31

it is show But there's something about,

58:33

like, really people

58:34

you admire. Of course. Yeah.

58:36

Just, you know, kind of looking across Dua a

58:39

a saying I

58:40

see you. I mean, I can't imagine

58:42

anything more wonderful than that.

58:45

Oh,

58:45

that's that's really

58:48

nice. That's it's true that feeling of, you

58:50

know, people that you admire also being

58:52

there and being like, you've got this. It

58:54

is a it's a

58:56

very different a very very

58:58

different feeling.

59:00

Stay tuned because

59:00

I'll be back

59:01

with Gerwig after this

59:03

very short break.

59:11

Intel

59:12

is shaping the future of technology. And as

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com slash iHeart land.

1:00:11

I'm doctor

1:00:12

Laurie Santos, hosted

1:00:15

the Happiness Lab podcast. The

1:00:17

show that presents the latest science based strategies to help us live happier,

1:00:19

more joyful lives. In the next season

1:00:21

of the Happiness Lab, we'll explore how

1:00:23

to make friends,

1:00:26

happier parenting strategies. And why drinking the world's hottest

1:00:28

hot sauce can be fun? Oh

1:00:32

my god.

1:00:33

listen to

1:00:35

the Happiness Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or

1:00:37

wherever you get your podcasts.

1:00:44

For all our listeners,

1:00:45

Greta and I lasso each other this

1:00:48

autumn in New York

1:00:48

when I had the opportunity to

1:00:52

see a screening of a new film she's in. And Greta, it was yours

1:00:54

another half. No her bounce

1:00:56

back. Really? White noise, which I'd

1:00:58

love to ask you all about. But

1:01:02

firstly though, I'm hoping that you could tell me about your creative

1:01:05

partnership with Noah. You first

1:01:07

worked together in

1:01:08

two thousand and ten's Greta

1:01:11

and then you collaborated on Frances

1:01:14

Heart and MISTRAS America as

1:01:16

well. And Noah also, I believe, co

1:01:18

wrote the Barbie screenplay

1:01:20

with you. Dua I just wanna know, you know, what do you bring out of

1:01:22

each other creatively? And

1:01:24

how do you ensure if you

1:01:26

even do that Personal

1:01:28

feelings get shelved in favor of your,

1:01:30

like, professional wants and needs as

1:01:32

you work on a project together.

1:01:35

Yeah. Well, it's hey, yeah,

1:01:38

there's there's some some amount of

1:01:40

blending of personal

1:01:42

and professional. that goes on in

1:01:44

our family. But I I

1:01:46

love Noah as a person,

1:01:48

obviously. But as a writer and as a

1:01:50

director, he's he's, you know, he's

1:01:52

just my favorite. And what is so wonderful

1:01:54

and what was so fun about

1:01:57

actually getting to work on

1:01:59

white

1:01:59

noise together, and also

1:02:01

writing Barbie together because we hadn't

1:02:03

made anything together in a while. We've

1:02:05

just been working separately. Although, when I when we're

1:02:07

working separately, it's never quite fully

1:02:10

separate. We're always very much

1:02:12

in each

1:02:14

other's work. So I'm reading early drafts of everything

1:02:16

of his and vice

1:02:18

versa. He's looking at cuts

1:02:20

I'm doing we're

1:02:22

very much up in each other's business.

1:02:24

It's not like we'll ever

1:02:26

go away and make something and come

1:02:28

back and say look what I made. It's

1:02:32

just very much part of how we move through the world. But officially

1:02:34

working together, it's like a

1:02:36

way of

1:02:36

being that I think we both

1:02:40

really enjoy. It's like there's a

1:02:41

third thing. It's not like when

1:02:43

we're riding together, it's not like it's half

1:02:45

me, half him, a

1:02:48

third thing. It's a new thing that we

1:02:50

only have access to when there's the two

1:02:52

of us. And it's a really

1:02:54

fun thing to do.

1:02:57

I've never

1:02:57

written with anyone but him because

1:03:00

it's such a strange,

1:03:02

lonely thing to do and you

1:03:04

kind of have to share a brain with

1:03:06

someone while you're doing it. and

1:03:08

I don't think that's

1:03:10

easy to do with just

1:03:12

anyone. But I yeah.

1:03:14

When we were writing Barbie, it was

1:03:16

just so much fun because it was

1:03:18

like we got

1:03:19

to make each other laugh

1:03:21

all day every

1:03:22

day and we were living in a

1:03:25

secret world no one else knew

1:03:27

about but us. And that

1:03:29

was amazing. And then we wrote

1:03:31

that and then after that draft, that was sort

1:03:33

of set, and then we went to go make white

1:03:36

noise. And then

1:03:39

as

1:03:39

an actor, with

1:03:41

Noah. Sometimes I'll get into this feedback loop,

1:03:43

which is really great, which

1:03:45

is it who I

1:03:47

think wrote

1:03:48

about this actually for the New York Times about

1:03:50

Francesca, but he likes doing lots

1:03:52

of takes. If we're doing a

1:03:54

scene, he'll do it like forty times.

1:03:57

on one angle or, you know, where

1:03:59

it's like a

1:03:59

moving master type thing.

1:04:02

But we'll get into this

1:04:04

flow where you know, what

1:04:06

I'm doing or Dua doing is

1:04:08

inspiring his direction. And

1:04:10

then when he directs us, then we get

1:04:12

more ideas. And then it just it

1:04:14

becomes this virtuous cycle

1:04:16

of obsessiveness, which I

1:04:18

think that we can kind of look

1:04:20

up and realize that five hours

1:04:23

of gone by. And that's a really

1:04:26

I don't know. I think that's the most fun

1:04:28

place to be in -- Mhmm. -- is

1:04:29

being in that kind of

1:04:32

fugue state. Well, we're

1:04:33

on white noise

1:04:36

without giving too much

1:04:38

away. You play a character named

1:04:40

Kurt,

1:04:40

who is For

1:04:42

a lack of, like, non spoiler y

1:04:44

way of putting it complicated.

1:04:49

Yes. Yes. how

1:04:51

would you describe it to people

1:04:53

who haven't seen the

1:04:55

movie yet?

1:04:56

Well, you know, I mean, I loved

1:04:58

the book. the white noise, Vedanta Lilo. I read it when I like, nineteen.

1:05:00

I thought it was so outrageously funny

1:05:02

and great. And I, like, underlined every

1:05:06

page and I was

1:05:08

really into it. And then when I read it

1:05:10

again, when Noah was looking at

1:05:12

adopting it, I found it

1:05:14

equally brilliant and hilarious, and also it

1:05:16

felt like it was about right now. It

1:05:18

felt like it was about

1:05:20

the pandemic and everything we're

1:05:22

going through and how everything is

1:05:24

surreal and heightened and

1:05:26

strange and crazy, but it felt

1:05:28

like it articulated all of this, but it

1:05:30

was, you

1:05:30

know, he wrote it in nineteen eighty

1:05:33

five, so it somehow spoke

1:05:35

to this moment in twenty twenty, but the character

1:05:37

of Babat, Baba

1:05:41

bob what I would say

1:05:43

is she's almost like an archetype

1:05:45

of an eighties mother

1:05:47

from a movie.

1:05:48

She's like Terry Garth in

1:05:50

close encounters with the third kind or

1:05:53

she's she's there's something very

1:05:55

comforting about her, very

1:05:57

familiar about her, You think, oh, yes. This woman with

1:05:59

this big

1:05:59

hair and acrylic nails

1:06:02

have got it under control. We're

1:06:04

all gonna

1:06:06

be okay. But then the truth

1:06:08

is about this woman, about anybody, you dig deeply in.

1:06:10

They're a mess. They're

1:06:12

crazy. And I

1:06:14

think that's to me what was

1:06:16

so fun is was like this archetype

1:06:18

of some, you know, rock

1:06:20

solid mom. And then

1:06:22

underneath, it's just the

1:06:24

craziest thing you can think of. It's

1:06:26

I mean, this is I don't

1:06:28

even know where to start, but it's

1:06:31

but it's a lot. And I

1:06:34

think one thing

1:06:34

no one I talked a lot about

1:06:36

was that the

1:06:38

the movie is

1:06:39

many things. But one of the things

1:06:42

it is, among being, you know, a

1:06:44

disaster movie and a, you know,

1:06:46

family, dramedy, and all these different

1:06:48

things. It's a very classic comedy

1:06:50

of re marriage.

1:06:52

And from Babette,

1:06:55

me

1:06:55

and Jack, who's

1:06:57

Adam Driver, it's refinding

1:07:00

each other in

1:07:03

the craziest of circumstances with

1:07:05

a toxic cloud Dua drug

1:07:08

addiction, fairs,

1:07:10

and all these crazy things that sometimes

1:07:13

you

1:07:13

find each

1:07:16

other again in the midst of the biggest mess.

1:07:18

Yeah. I mean,

1:07:18

watching it, it takes you on such an extreme

1:07:21

journey. Like, you

1:07:24

feel so

1:07:26

much all at once and there are moments and you're like, what's happening?

1:07:28

And then you're right. Every character

1:07:30

is so layered and you think you

1:07:34

have it. under control and then you kinda see in reality

1:07:36

of life. I mean,

1:07:38

anyway, everyone should go and and watch

1:07:40

it. It's

1:07:42

it's brilliant. I am I

1:07:44

have to I have to and I and I'm

1:07:46

gonna wrap up things. I feel

1:07:48

like I've gone through your

1:07:50

whole life and it's been absolutely

1:07:53

amazing. But one thing that I

1:07:55

have to have to talk to

1:07:57

you about is Barbie. And I feel

1:07:59

like the idea of Barbie the

1:08:02

movie has been floating around and been talked

1:08:04

about for

1:08:06

years. but you're the one to finally have made it.

1:08:08

What take on the story did you

1:08:10

think that you could offer,

1:08:14

like, How did you get the job? What was the audition process like with

1:08:16

Mattel? You know, did you have to pitch

1:08:18

your vision? Like, what was the process like?

1:08:22

It's a you know, I'm I'm fascinated to -- Yeah.

1:08:24

-- by this. Well, you know,

1:08:26

you're

1:08:26

like the first person I've

1:08:28

talked to about this in

1:08:30

any real way. Well, I I met

1:08:32

Margo a long time ago. It was actually sort of right before

1:08:35

I was going into production on little women. We

1:08:37

met about something

1:08:40

else, and it didn't end up working

1:08:42

out, but I liked her

1:08:42

so much. I thought she was just really smart and

1:08:47

really wonderful.

1:08:47

And, you know, I knew I loved her as an

1:08:50

actor. But then when I got to sit and talk

1:08:52

to her as a producer, I

1:08:54

was like, oh, yeah. She's she's

1:08:57

she's the greatest. I I think

1:08:59

she's astonishingly smart, astonishingly, like, on

1:09:00

top of

1:09:00

everything and really savvy about how

1:09:03

to go about things and really

1:09:07

great. So I thought, well, if I ever

1:09:09

get the chance to work

1:09:11

with her again, I'll do

1:09:13

it. And she had

1:09:15

secured the rights to Barbie with

1:09:18

her company, had brought it to Warner Brothers with Mattel. So they had

1:09:20

it set up at Warner

1:09:22

Brothers with Mattel with her. Okay.

1:09:26

And then she came to me

1:09:28

and said,

1:09:29

would you be

1:09:30

interested in writing this?

1:09:33

And And I said, yes. And then

1:09:35

I said, and Noah would like to write it too. And I said, and

1:09:38

I had not really

1:09:42

a doc to know about this.

1:09:44

I do not. I think I had a

1:09:46

six month old baby when I said yes and

1:09:48

I thought, I wasn't necessarily running everything by him. I

1:09:50

was, like, finishing one movie, and we sort of said I

1:09:54

said, yes. And then It

1:09:57

was kind of after the pandemic

1:09:59

started, it was

1:09:59

in

1:10:01

the

1:10:04

march of twenty

1:10:04

twenty that Noah said,

1:10:06

are we meant to be

1:10:07

writing a Barbie

1:10:10

movie? I said, yes. And

1:10:13

he was like, I well, how do I have any ideas for that? Like, why didn't

1:10:15

you sign this up to write a different thing?

1:10:20

And I and I was like, because I

1:10:22

had a feeling about that. And I was like, I like Margo, and I've got a feeling. And

1:10:27

then sort of the process, it it was a really, you

1:10:29

know, it's some when I

1:10:31

talk about it, it's

1:10:32

really boring because I don't

1:10:34

know what to say other I went

1:10:36

away and started working on ideas, and then I brought a bunch

1:10:38

of them to Noah. And then he kind of was like, wow, these are

1:10:40

pretty good,

1:10:41

and then he started and then we

1:10:43

just started building it together. And

1:10:47

initially, again,

1:10:48

I didn't know I was gonna direct it.

1:10:50

And then

1:10:50

there was just at a certain point

1:10:52

while we were writing it, I realized

1:10:54

I really wanna to direct it because I thought was so great. And

1:10:57

I think the moment I knew I wanted

1:10:59

to direct it was a no one said to

1:11:01

me. He's like, are you sure you wanna direct

1:11:03

this? I was like, Oh,

1:11:05

are you interested in trying to get? Like, I was like, oh, no. No. This one's mine.

1:11:07

Like, I said, I

1:11:10

said, we should do

1:11:12

this. Dua, yeah,

1:11:14

it was it was I just got really excited about it. And and

1:11:16

got really excited about it and

1:11:20

then Yeah. I actually sort of

1:11:22

the way the timing worked out, you know, I started working on it in

1:11:24

earnest in

1:11:27

March of twenty twenty, and we started

1:11:30

shooting it on March

1:11:32

twenty first

1:11:34

twenty twenty one. two after.

1:11:36

So it's a

1:11:38

long process.

1:11:38

But also, you

1:11:41

know, that's about

1:11:44

the process us. It takes a while to

1:11:46

write, and then it takes a while to start putting it all together. But it was I

1:11:51

don't know. It was something was exciting because it was

1:11:53

so it had that

1:11:56

it was

1:11:58

terrifying. I think that

1:11:59

was a big part of the

1:11:59

thing. Like, oh,

1:12:00

no, Barbie. This could why

1:12:03

don't we Dua don't

1:12:05

know. I didn't think

1:12:07

there's something about kind starting from

1:12:09

that place where it's like, well, anything's possible. And I I think it just was

1:12:11

like it had that

1:12:15

sort of it felt like vertigo starting to write it. Like, where

1:12:17

do you even begin? And what would

1:12:19

be the story?

1:12:22

And And I think it was that feeling I had

1:12:24

was knowing that it would

1:12:26

be really interesting terror. And Usually,

1:12:30

that's where the best stuff happens.

1:12:32

Fingers crossed. I'm

1:12:34

terrified of that. And

1:12:37

I don't know like, anything

1:12:39

where you're like, this could be a

1:12:42

career ender, then you're like, okay,

1:12:44

if I probably should

1:12:46

do it. I doubt that,

1:12:48

highly. But I'm always

1:12:50

curious to know this,

1:12:52

you know, when

1:12:54

directors who are so beloved for their

1:12:56

voice and independence are hired to

1:12:58

tackle these, like, massive temples for

1:13:02

major studios. how do you ensure that your vision isn't lost in,

1:13:04

like, in the noise and the compromises?

1:13:06

How do you make sure the way

1:13:09

that Barbie exists in your mind

1:13:11

is the one that's that's gonna

1:13:13

exist on the screen. For me,

1:13:14

it comes down to a few things. Mattel were amazing

1:13:17

partners,

1:13:17

and they have

1:13:19

given us such trust

1:13:23

and such freedom. And I think that

1:13:25

that is incredibly rare. Whatever we

1:13:27

wanted it to be, they did not

1:13:29

try to micromanage it. They were completely

1:13:31

on board as partners. And and

1:13:33

that was extraordinary. So there's that element and

1:13:36

everything their archives and

1:13:37

their everything they have. It

1:13:40

was just I

1:13:42

couldn't have asked for better partners in that they are the people who are the, you know, the of

1:13:44

Barbie, the protector of Barbie, and that

1:13:46

they really gave us their trust was

1:13:51

extraordinary. And I think a big reason for that was actually

1:13:54

Margo

1:13:55

and Tom

1:13:57

and

1:13:58

the

1:13:59

way they also,

1:14:01

you know, said this, we wanna make this movie, and

1:14:03

we wanna make her vision, and

1:14:05

we don't need

1:14:08

to make any Barbie movie, we wanna

1:14:10

make this one. So for me, I didn't face a lot of, like,

1:14:12

you can't do this

1:14:14

or you can't do that.

1:14:17

I was very much supported in what I wanted to do. I I don't know. I mean, I don't

1:14:19

know if this is true for you. I

1:14:23

usually know on a

1:14:26

gut level whether or not something feels

1:14:28

right. Yeah. And if it doesn't, it's

1:14:30

not you can't you can lie

1:14:33

to yourself, but it's not gonna wind

1:14:35

up a

1:14:35

good size. Yeah. A a few years

1:14:37

ago, you told Vogue that in

1:14:40

future projects, you want

1:14:42

to just keep expanding the idea of what stories you

1:14:44

can tell. Mhmm. So as we

1:14:46

end after Barbie -- Mhmm. -- what's

1:14:48

on the horizon and in what ways

1:14:50

do you hope to keep x funding

1:14:53

the horizons of the stories you tell. Gosh. III actually I'm

1:14:55

thinking of that

1:14:56

that I said

1:14:59

that to focus. a high

1:15:01

ambition I had there. I mean, it's it's a good wonderful

1:15:03

ambition. I think, you know, it's funny

1:15:05

because I think right now, because I'm

1:15:08

in this you

1:15:11

know, I'm editing and I'm working on

1:15:12

the film and I will

1:15:13

say highfalutin sort of like

1:15:15

ambitious statements to me. They

1:15:17

tend to come in in

1:15:20

between times. when you're not quit

1:15:22

working on something yet. So you're thinking about how wonderful things could

1:15:24

be. And I think when

1:15:26

you're actually working on something, I

1:15:30

forget which director said this. Maybe it was Brian DePalma. But, I mean, this is definitely true when

1:15:32

you're

1:15:32

on set. When

1:15:35

you're on set, like,

1:15:37

you know, you have some idea of what you're

1:15:39

gonna do and then you get to set and then you're like, all you need to do is just stay alive

1:15:42

Dua just get it

1:15:46

Like like, you're just struggling

1:15:48

to be like, just make it

1:15:50

work. And so I think

1:15:52

for me, like, that sort

1:15:54

of pontificating about, like, art form stuff

1:15:56

happens when I'm not in the middle of it.

1:15:58

When I'm in the middle of it, I'm just, like, just stay alive. Just keep going.

1:16:00

But I think

1:16:02

this sounds like a much

1:16:04

less I

1:16:07

don't know, worthy cause,

1:16:09

but I think one

1:16:11

thing important is actually

1:16:13

Anyone who makes anything where what you

1:16:15

are doing is making a comp for other people.

1:16:17

hum for other people

1:16:20

That feels

1:16:20

that feels useful

1:16:22

because what then

1:16:24

the next filmmaker can do

1:16:26

is say, it worked. And I

1:16:29

think that that that idea

1:16:31

of being able to be, like, I

1:16:33

hope. I don't know. I hope the

1:16:35

fact that, you know, like, little women

1:16:37

worked then the next

1:16:40

filmmaker can say, well, that

1:16:42

worked. So, you know, it's

1:16:44

possible. And I think

1:16:46

it's that sounds like such a less romantic

1:16:48

goal, but I think developing

1:16:50

comps for the next person is

1:16:53

it's very, I guess, walk you're sort

1:16:55

of inside baseball, but that

1:16:59

feels worthy

1:17:00

because it just makes it easier for whoever comes next as

1:17:03

if they can point to it and say, well, it worked here.

1:17:05

So it's possible that

1:17:07

it works again. I

1:17:10

love that. Greta, thank you so. Thank

1:17:13

you much. I've had

1:17:15

the rest time. This

1:17:18

has been the best way for me to wake up

1:17:20

on the other side of the world.

1:17:22

I've just I I really just

1:17:25

felt so inspired deeply by this

1:17:28

conversation. I mean, you're incredible and inspiring in

1:17:30

so many ways that having the chance to

1:17:32

talk to you like this has been

1:17:34

has been really, really special for me, and

1:17:36

I'm sure for my listeners as

1:17:38

well. Mostly,

1:17:38

I'm just gonna think about

1:17:41

you not getting into,

1:17:42

like, singing school. Like, that's just crazy to me when you don't

1:17:44

really. Yeah. It just seems I mean,

1:17:46

like, if I could go back in

1:17:50

time, that's you just wanna be like, you're crazy,

1:17:52

but you're crazy because

1:17:54

listen to her. It's

1:17:56

it's yeah. It was

1:17:58

like a performance performance drama arts,

1:18:00

music school. It's it's quite funny,

1:18:02

but we'll have to, like, sit down

1:18:04

one day and

1:18:05

then exchange all

1:18:07

these stories because Oh, quite funny. I like

1:18:09

to I like to just end my conversations by asking my guests a

1:18:12

question. And the one list

1:18:14

that I want from you today

1:18:16

is for

1:18:18

the young women out there like you Greta who

1:18:20

are always writing stories. What are

1:18:22

five tips for breaking into the film

1:18:24

industry that you'd offer them? Oh,

1:18:26

god. Five tips for

1:18:29

breaking into the film industry. No

1:18:31

pressure. I would say they

1:18:33

they probably fall under,

1:18:35

like, one megatip. which is write and

1:18:37

make your own work

1:18:39

and put it up online.

1:18:41

That's

1:18:41

where everything

1:18:42

I mean, when I was coming

1:18:46

up. It was all film festivals, which

1:18:48

were

1:18:49

wonderful. But now, what's so

1:18:51

extraordinary is Lipa, you you know, gosh,

1:18:53

you can really make things with your iPhone that looks extraordinary.

1:18:55

You can make things with your And I

1:19:00

would say, make your own things, put

1:19:02

them out there, also keep working, keep making them. It

1:19:04

kind of goes

1:19:07

to the numbers thing that I

1:19:09

was saying before about, like, how many

1:19:11

movies are you making? Is Well, you know, you wanna of

1:19:15

course, refine things and make them as good as you

1:19:17

can. I would say make a lot, especially

1:19:19

if you're young, make

1:19:22

a lot. make a just throw a lot of things at

1:19:24

it and see how they they this like,

1:19:27

I would make and

1:19:30

write more rather than less And I think sometimes,

1:19:32

you know, with certain younger,

1:19:34

not just women, but, you know,

1:19:36

people are they get kind of fixated

1:19:38

on, like, well, this is my script

1:19:41

and and if it's not gonna work, I, you know, like, I'm

1:19:43

just sticking them with this one script and it's like, well, if that one's

1:19:45

not happening right the next one, this

1:19:47

this is a very annoying

1:19:50

thing to say, but, like, I don't know.

1:19:52

I always think about like, III

1:19:54

love Shakespeare. I do. I love Shakespeare.

1:19:57

But you know, when you read sort

1:19:59

of his

1:19:59

work and order, like, he's figuring it

1:20:01

out. He doesn't know how to really write

1:20:04

a tragedy. I mean, he's

1:20:06

a genius, but he also isn't as good as he gets. You know? When he first writes

1:20:08

it, it's kind

1:20:11

of, you know, titusandronic it's

1:20:13

like, well, if you kill your son

1:20:15

on page two, nobody really likes you. Like, you know but

1:20:18

then, like, by the time he writes King Lear, he's

1:20:22

got it figured out, you know? And so you can kind

1:20:25

of see. He's always been a genius, but he

1:20:27

really figured it out. And I think

1:20:29

it's like that high output, which

1:20:31

is another thing. just keep

1:20:33

working through things. Like, keep trying. Be open to the people that you

1:20:36

know now

1:20:40

might

1:20:40

be the people that you need

1:20:42

to know. I think sometimes there's this feeling that, like,

1:20:43

official people exist

1:20:46

somewhere else or, like, one

1:20:49

day you're gonna meet an official person, and that official person

1:20:51

will, like, know how to do it better. And not

1:20:54

that there is an

1:20:56

expertise But

1:20:58

often, the people you're inspired by now

1:21:01

are the same people you're gonna be inspired

1:21:03

by. And I and this actually

1:21:05

does this is ties into Barbie.

1:21:07

Like, the actor, great actor, Kate

1:21:09

McKinnon, is in Barbie.

1:21:12

And I met her when

1:21:14

I was eighteen years old. In

1:21:16

college, and

1:21:17

we both did really silly, fun, wonderful

1:21:19

comedy shows, and college together. And I thought to

1:21:21

myself, well, she's most talented person I've ever

1:21:23

met my whole life. and

1:21:27

then she went to be on Saturday night live and everybody thinks

1:21:29

she's the most talented person in the

1:21:31

world because she

1:21:34

is. And when I called

1:21:35

her and we started talking about doing Barbie and

1:21:37

I just couldn't get over the

1:21:39

fact that, like, you know,

1:21:41

sometimes at

1:21:42

eighteen, you don't know what you're

1:21:44

doing. And sometimes we

1:21:46

at eighteen, the person you think is the best is the best.

1:21:48

Like, maybe the

1:21:50

people around you are the

1:21:52

people you

1:21:55

know, if that makes sense and oh,

1:21:57

fourth this seems

1:21:59

obvious. Watch so

1:22:01

many movies. Yeah. there are so many great ones.

1:22:04

Watch worlds, like, being

1:22:06

Hollywood blockbusters, watch tiny

1:22:09

things, watch students at, like,

1:22:11

watch Watch things. Developed what you hate. Developed what

1:22:13

you love. Get a real sense

1:22:15

of what is

1:22:18

exciting to you. because I think one thing about watching

1:22:20

movies and really expanding

1:22:23

that is, is it

1:22:25

makes you remember that cinema

1:22:27

can be anything? I think sometimes you

1:22:30

a little bit narrow, especially when you're, you know, trying to break in,

1:22:32

especially

1:22:32

to Hollywood

1:22:33

and you're like, well, here are

1:22:34

the rules of screen right. and

1:22:38

it has to be done this way.

1:22:40

And you're like, no, it doesn't look at all these movies. It

1:22:42

can be anything. And then I think the last thing is

1:22:46

The times where it's not working out,

1:22:49

you can look back and those are the

1:22:51

most fruitful times for you creatively.

1:22:53

So don't resent where

1:22:56

you are. That's

1:22:57

beautiful. Greta, thank you so much for

1:22:59

your time, for your generosity, for

1:23:03

your words, for for being so

1:23:05

inspiring and and feeling really, really energized after this after

1:23:07

this conversation. So thank

1:23:11

you so much. And I hope

1:23:13

you have a lovely rest of your evening. New

1:23:16

York. Yes.

1:23:17

I'm going

1:23:19

to

1:23:19

a ninetieth birthday party, so

1:23:22

it's gonna be really hot night for me. It sounds like a

1:23:23

hot night. Well,

1:23:29

hopefully, I'll see

1:23:30

you soon. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was beautiful.

1:23:32

have beautiful

1:23:35

Thank you all for tuning

1:23:38

in and thanks to Greta Gerwig for being so generous and warm and thoughtful.

1:23:40

I felt really

1:23:41

energized buzzing and hopeful at the

1:23:43

end

1:23:43

of the conversation. Dua really

1:23:46

hope you're all feeling the same after hearing it. You

1:23:49

can find Greta's recommendations of the

1:23:51

essential places for Sacramento newcomers to

1:23:53

visit in this week's issue

1:23:55

of service ninety five. a free weekly newsletter

1:23:57

available to subscribers via service ninety five dot com. I've got

1:23:59

to tell you she

1:24:02

really sold me on

1:24:04

Sacramento. So I hope you enjoy our pics

1:24:06

too. Be sure

1:24:06

to follow us on Instagram and Twitter at service ninety five.

1:24:08

And

1:24:10

I'll see you next week for another very special episode of

1:24:13

Dua Lipa at your

1:24:16

service. Bye.

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