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1:43

Heya, it's Dua Lipa and welcome back

1:45

to my podcast, Dua Lipa At Your Service.

1:48

Without really

1:50

planning to, identity is one of

1:52

those themes that's come up in some

1:54

form or another in nearly every

1:57

conversation I've had on this show since we began

1:59

a year and a half ago. ago.

2:01

It's natural. I think we spend

2:03

so much time trying to figure out who we are, even

2:06

if it feels like sometimes we have multiple identities.

2:09

Who do I want to be when I wake up in the morning? What

2:11

has changed? And what's remained the same

2:13

since I was in school? And who

2:15

will I be tomorrow?

2:20

Identity remains at the top of my mind, and

2:23

it's a topic perfectly suited for my guest

2:25

today. You'll know Troye

2:27

Sivan as the singer and songwriter behind

2:29

singles like My My My

2:31

and Bloom, as well as this summer's

2:33

incredible sweaty smash hit Rush.

2:36

This year, he also starred in the HBO

2:38

series The Idol, and soon he'll

2:40

release his third album, Something to Give

2:43

Each Other. But Troye and

2:45

I have known each other since he invited

2:47

me to open his suburbia tour in America

2:49

in late 2016. On

2:52

the road, we became proper, real life

2:54

friends, and ever since, we've always

2:56

found the time to connect whenever we're in the same city.

3:01

Troye has spent so much of his career speaking

3:03

candidly about the role identity has played

3:05

in his work. In our conversation,

3:07

you'll hear him talk about many different sides

3:09

of his own identity. His

3:11

queerness, his Jewishness, his Australianness.

3:15

He's got such a unique perspective, and I

3:17

loved hearing how he balances all these parts

3:19

of himself. Please welcome

3:21

today's At Your Service guest, the incomparable

3:24

Troye Sivan.

3:28

Hey, Troye, how are you doing? Hey,

3:30

good. How are you? I'm good. I'm so

3:33

excited to do this. Me too. It

3:35

feels weird that we're not just having dinner and like

3:37

martinis or something, and jilling

3:40

and catching up. But I'm just so

3:42

happy that you wanted to do this. I've always

3:44

thought that it was so cool that you do this, by the way. I think

3:46

this is like so sick. Oh,

3:49

thank you. Yeah, I love doing this.

3:51

And it's also like really interesting

3:54

diving in and doing research about your friends and

3:57

doing the back story.

4:00

watching all your old YouTube videos

4:02

and it's been really

4:04

fun. I've

4:07

loved seeing the whole journey.

4:08

Those are the ones that I haven't privated by the

4:10

way. There's many, many, many more

4:13

that I have made private. Well,

4:15

maybe one day on a night out

4:17

or something, you can show me a couple of words. Yeah,

4:19

I'll work now. I'm really excited

4:21

to talk to you about identity. Cool.

4:25

I think it's a topic

4:27

that I've been thinking a lot about lately, and

4:29

I feel like I'm juggling on any

4:31

given day my identity

4:32

as a Brit, as a Kosovo,

4:35

a woman, a singer, a performer,

4:37

a business woman. I

4:39

feel like, I don't know, just

4:41

different sides of myself that I want to

4:44

explore more of. I feel like with you, you're

4:47

also just similarly

4:50

multifaceted. Especially

4:52

as your career has continued to

4:55

excuse the pun, bloom. At

4:58

this moment, how would

5:01

you identify or describe yourself?

5:04

It's funny because I think it always

5:06

comes back to really

5:08

core principles, you know,

5:11

that don't change that often. Like, you know, this

5:13

is your identity, this is who you are. And

5:15

so for me, it goes back to like Australian.

5:18

I feel really Australian, even though

5:20

I've been travelling and living overseas for

5:22

like a long time. That's something that

5:25

is like super important to me. I feel really

5:27

Jewish. That's really important to me. Even

5:29

though I'm not religious, like I don't even

5:31

believe in God, I don't think. Culturally,

5:34

I just, I feel really Jewish. I

5:36

feel queer for sure. And

5:38

I feel like a creative. I

5:43

would say musician first, but like a creative.

5:45

I think those are the things that if you had to really, really

5:48

strip me to like my bare bones,

5:50

those are the things that I would

5:51

first use to describe myself. Because

5:55

like the creative obviously describes

5:57

what I do for work and

5:59

how I think.

6:00

Maybe people perceive me. But then like

6:03

the Jewish thing, for example, that just feels like

6:06

family to me. And that feels like I would

6:08

have used the same words to describe myself when I was like six

6:10

years old. Hmm. Something I really

6:12

love about you is how close you

6:14

are with your family. And I feel that

6:17

that's something that really, really keeps you grounded. I

6:19

mean, they're always around. You're similar, right?

6:21

I think it's so important when

6:23

everything is so mad

6:26

in our surroundings and we travel a lot and

6:28

there's so many other things to divert

6:31

our attention to that when you have that

6:33

kind of feeling of home to always

6:35

go back to, it is, I guess,

6:38

a really settling feeling which I think is

6:40

really great because what I've seen from

6:42

you is like you're able to jump

6:44

onto so many different things but still really

6:47

remain authentic and true to yourself. And

6:50

I'm

6:50

really, really excited to dive into

6:53

your new music. But I thought

6:56

we could actually start by

6:57

rewinding a little bit to the

6:59

start. And you've always been acting

7:01

and you've been making music but your career

7:04

really took off on YouTube when you were actually

7:06

just a teenager. Can you tell

7:08

my listeners the sort of things that you were

7:10

posting and why

7:13

YouTube felt like such a safe

7:15

space for you to

7:16

turn to at that age?

7:19

Funny

7:19

thing is normally in interviews,

7:22

I'll like brush over the YouTube chapter

7:24

and what I'll say is like, I used to sing

7:26

on YouTube, which isn't a lie but it's

7:28

also just not the whole truth. There

7:30

was definitely an era

7:33

of making YouTube videos. It

7:36

was like everything from like the

7:38

ice bucket challenge to waxing

7:41

my legs with

7:42

Zoella. And I'm not

7:45

embarrassed about it at all. It just feels literally

7:47

like if you were to get

7:49

your like home movies that your mum

7:52

or your dad filmed and share them

7:54

with everyone and have everyone kind of like

7:56

watch them in real time and then have this weird nostalgia

7:59

for them when you get...

7:59

older because it really,

8:02

it was a long time ago now and I feel like a

8:04

kid in those videos because I was, like I started

8:06

doing and I was 12.

8:09

I think for me it was just, it

8:11

was a couple of things. I was a

8:13

little bit nerdy, like I didn't, I

8:15

definitely wasn't one of the cool boys, like

8:17

they played footy and they

8:20

were like super academic and I was

8:23

kind of neither of those things and I really just

8:26

loved music and the

8:28

arts and my school didn't have a good arts program

8:30

at all. So I

8:32

think for me the internet in general

8:34

was like a space where I found a sense

8:37

of community and I found like other people

8:39

that were into the same things that I was and

8:42

so

8:43

then I started seeing people make YouTube videos and I was like, oh

8:45

this looks fun as hell and like easy

8:48

and it was all sort of all of the things that I

8:50

loved. Like I got to play

8:52

on my computer and like learn how to edit and

8:54

this is like around the same time that I was learning how to use Photoshop.

8:57

I just loved all of it and it

8:59

felt like such a fun way to express

9:01

myself and it would

9:03

be the tiniest thing. Like I'd be really excited

9:05

about like I learned how to put

9:07

reverb on my voice, let me, let me

9:10

film myself singing so that I can put reverb

9:12

on my voice and then I don't know, just like weird

9:15

little things like that where it just really made me excited

9:18

and so then I started uploading the videos and

9:20

the

9:21

first video I uploaded I think it got like a thousand

9:23

views and I remember I used

9:26

to sing in the city and in Perth like I used to

9:28

busk or whatever you know like put out a hat

9:30

and busk and I

9:32

was just like this is so many more people than I've ever watched

9:35

me sing in the city. So

9:37

I

9:38

just kept going with it.

9:40

I guess at that point you know when I think about

9:42

it you probably didn't think much about it you

9:44

just kind of put things out that made you feel good

9:46

but was there anything in the back of your

9:48

mind that you felt like you had to navigate

9:50

especially at that age like what you wanted to put

9:52

up or was like nothing

9:54

off balance kind of thing was it just

9:56

whatever you felt like in the moment

9:57

was something that you would go for. I

10:00

was pretty like considered and everything.

10:02

I think I knew from like an early age that

10:05

if you put something on the internet, it's up there forever, you know?

10:07

So I was definitely aware of that.

10:10

One thing I am really happy about is that because

10:13

it felt so insular, like this was something

10:15

that I did from my bedroom, it never felt

10:17

like

10:17

it was going to affect my real life at all. I

10:20

was still like going to school and whatever, and

10:22

I wasn't worried about anybody teasing me

10:24

because it just felt like I was doing this into

10:27

like

10:28

the abyss, you know? Kind of like an alter

10:30

ego of some sorts. Like

10:32

that's your online persona and then you had

10:34

your real life

10:36

thing. And so that was

10:38

really comforting because I could just kind of do what I felt

10:40

was right or whatever at the time. And

10:43

then it just became really fun. Once

10:46

I started going to like these YouTube conventions and stuff

10:48

like that, it literally felt like that was my

10:50

kind of high school experience. We

10:52

were like traveling, we were, you know,

10:54

I got my first boyfriend and like all

10:57

this stuff started happening that was really, really

10:59

just like fun. And we were doing it all together.

11:02

And so it was, it was a good vibe.

11:04

Yeah. Having you on

11:06

the podcast today has me thinking about the first

11:09

time we met, which was when

11:11

you graciously invited me to open

11:13

for your 2016 suburbia

11:16

tour across America and Canada. Do

11:18

you know, it's like a punchline in my life now. Like

11:22

just in general, people like anytime you ever come up, they're

11:25

like, Oh, do you know her? I was like, yeah, you're not

11:27

something crazy. She opened for me on tour and

11:29

people like crack up laughing because it's

11:32

insane. It's so funny.

11:33

It's honestly like one of my

11:36

fondest memories ever. And I'm, I'm,

11:38

it's also one of like the proudest

11:41

tours that I'd ever been a part of. And

11:43

I'm not just saying

11:43

this because I'm talking to you, but really it

11:45

like completely changed my life. And

11:48

it was such a, such a gamble

11:50

for me because I had

11:53

to like find the money to go on this tour.

11:55

I was just starting out. It was like, Oh

11:58

my God, I'm going to go on tour. Troye Sivan.

11:59

and I have to go up on stage and really

12:02

put on a good show and hope that maybe his fans

12:04

would resonate with my music. And it was just such

12:06

a, I remember it being such a big

12:09

deal and it was just such a crazy opportunity

12:12

for me to be able to

12:13

do that. And

12:16

then there's so many fun, crazy stories from

12:18

the tour, like our last night in Atlanta

12:20

and me accidentally popping

12:23

open a bottle of champagne in the back of an Uber

12:25

and getting in a lot of trouble with the

12:27

driver. But maybe let's not embellish on

12:29

that for this podcast. And

12:31

then when we were in Toronto and

12:33

the 2016 election was happening.

12:35

Oh

12:37

my God, yeah. And like the website was crashing

12:40

for the Canadian immigration and we're like, yeah,

12:42

maybe we're not gonna leave Canada.

12:45

We'll just stay here.

12:47

Wow, yeah. I remember being on stage

12:49

that night

12:51

when Trump got elected and you

12:53

could definitely like feel

12:55

it in the air, even though we were in Canada. And then

12:58

the sort of like dread of going back into

13:00

America. I remember feeling like

13:02

a really heavy time in the world, obviously.

13:05

And then we were having this really beautiful

13:08

tour. That was like such a nice experience.

13:11

It was really an interesting and a fun

13:13

time too. You know, I have very, very fond memories.

13:16

I thought it'd be a fun opportunity to just ask you what

13:18

that particular tour was like for

13:20

you at that point in your career and what

13:23

kind of stands out the most for you after all

13:25

these years. First of all,

13:27

I remember being so excited that you

13:29

were doing it because

13:31

Be The One is like

13:33

one of the best songs ever, like genuinely.

13:36

Thank you. And that was all

13:38

I needed to know was that you were the singer of that

13:40

song. And I was like, okay, sick. And then I

13:42

don't know if people know this, but that tour birthed

13:45

a child because Al- Oh yeah,

13:47

it's true. Managers at the time ended up

13:49

like, oh yeah, they didn't conceive

13:52

her that night, but I

13:54

know they're fully married now and have a kid and everything. And like

13:57

I met you and just, what an amazing, amazing-

13:59

time. And I remember my parents were on that tour

14:03

and in general that

14:06

phase, I was still so out

14:08

of my depth and I still am, but I'm sure you

14:10

remember, but

14:12

in general I feel like artists, when you get signed,

14:14

maybe it's different now because like you don't really

14:17

have to do promo in the same kind of way as you used to,

14:19

I don't think. But like

14:21

those first few years are

14:23

really intense, like really,

14:26

really, really intense. And

14:28

so I remember being

14:30

tired, but also like loving every second

14:32

of it and just being overwhelmed,

14:35

good and bad, but just totally overwhelmed. Yeah,

14:38

I do think of that whole process

14:41

where I kind of like relate it to being on the hamster wheel

14:44

a little bit. It's just like kind of a nonstop

14:46

shop of like

14:47

touring, which is

14:49

really exciting. But in every city that you go to,

14:51

you're going, you're doing interviews, you're doing photo shoots,

14:53

you're doing meeting greets, you're meeting up with people.

14:57

There's a constant agenda and like plan

15:00

of the rundown of your day that probably now

15:02

in the next tour that you're going to go on, you'll have more

15:04

time to just like explore and connect

15:06

with people and people differently.

15:09

I

15:10

guess speaking about

15:11

connecting with people, August

15:14

marks a decade since you posted

15:16

your incredible coming out video

15:18

on YouTube,

15:19

which I'm certain

15:22

gave so many young queer people not only

15:25

hope, but also the knowledge and visibility

15:27

that they weren't alone in this world. When

15:30

you

15:30

posted it, you were just 18.

15:33

Looking back on it 10 years

15:35

later, like what do you remember about the experience

15:38

of filming it and releasing it? So

15:41

I had already come out to my

15:43

parents a few years before when I was 15. And

15:47

so I kind

15:49

of got to the point where I

15:52

felt really comfortable in my

15:55

own personal life. And I also

15:57

happened to

15:58

kind of have this big YouTube audience at the time.

15:59

time and

16:01

those coming out videos

16:03

just completely,

16:05

completely changed

16:06

everything for me personally. You know, that's how I found

16:08

the courage to come out in the first

16:11

place to my family was through hearing other

16:13

people's stories. And that can be really scary because, you

16:15

know, you hear the stories, the good and the bad

16:17

and people that their families have received them

16:19

really well and people whose families don't receive

16:21

it well at all. And also, I know it sounds

16:24

crazy to say, but it was a very different time when

16:26

I came out and it was really,

16:29

really, really scary. And so when

16:31

I was 18,

16:33

by that point, I had already kind of like

16:35

really, really come to terms with it

16:38

because I had posted these YouTube videos.

16:40

Another thing that was on my mind is I didn't want to get outed. I wanted

16:42

to live my life and I

16:44

was 18 and I wanted to be able to like me to

16:46

start dating and stuff like that. And I was, I was really

16:48

scared that because I had this like online audience, I

16:50

was scared that someone was going to out me and I

16:53

was about to sign my record deal. And I did not want

16:55

them to be able to tell me to

16:57

stay in the closet because I was like, you

17:00

know, super comfortable with myself.

17:01

And so I just kind of saw it as like an opportunity to

17:03

give back to

17:04

the community that helped me, which

17:07

was like the online queer YouTube community,

17:09

basically, get this thing off

17:11

my chest

17:12

and make sure that I do it in a way that feels comfortable

17:15

for me. And also kind of

17:17

set myself up with my label that that

17:19

I get to be truthful from day one

17:21

in my music, which was like,

17:23

I didn't know what else I was possibly going to do, you know.

17:27

And so I think I was in

17:29

LA when I filmed it because I was staying at this

17:32

group house with a bunch of other YouTubers.

17:34

And I remember I

17:37

definitely was out to a few of them. But

17:39

I remember I just went downstairs and like

17:42

turned on the camera and I did

17:44

like one

17:45

take, obviously, I wasn't going to like reshoot

17:48

it, you know, and I don't really remember

17:50

editing it. I don't remember if there's any cuts in the video. I haven't

17:52

watched it, but

17:54

I just like posted it. And

17:56

then I went upstairs and joined the

17:59

group. And then I remember it going crazy.

18:03

That was when I got overwhelmed. Like I don't remember being

18:05

super scared hitting upload,

18:08

but I remember feeling

18:10

extremely, extremely overwhelmed

18:13

with like beautiful,

18:14

positive emotion, because I

18:17

can't really describe the relief.

18:19

I was conscious of the fact that I was not straight

18:22

since I like literally as long as I can remember,

18:25

it's one of my earliest memories. I don't know why I was like super

18:28

self aware about it. And I knew that it was

18:30

something that I did not want to be. And I thought

18:32

that it was something that I was going to take

18:34

to the grave with me. Like I would never, ever, ever, ever,

18:36

ever tell anyone.

18:38

And then somehow my best

18:40

friend, Kayla, she and I were

18:42

talking when I was 15 and I told her

18:45

after like this, you know, we were talking for like hours and

18:47

hours and she kind of like got it out of me, I guess. And

18:50

I didn't know what it felt like to live life

18:53

without that weight. It

18:55

was just such a relief that everyone

18:57

knew exactly who I was now and that I

19:00

could just start my life

19:02

essentially, you know. It's amazing hearing

19:04

you talk about it, just kind of taking that rhetoric into

19:06

your own hands is so important.

19:09

And I can't even imagine what that fear

19:12

must have been like, the idea of, oh,

19:13

someone might help me or someone

19:15

might take this

19:16

moment away from me. I mean, I can't

19:18

even comprehend that feeling,

19:20

especially. I think it's so powerful

19:23

as well that you did it

19:23

before you signed your record deal and you're

19:25

like, this is who I am. I'm not going to change the

19:27

stories that I'm going to write about. This is the love that

19:30

I feel is true to me. This is like who

19:32

I am. And I think that's just amazing. I

19:34

just it's it's beautiful.

19:37

Also, to my labels credit, I woke up

19:39

to like congratulations email from

19:41

them the next day, like with the pride flags

19:43

and stuff. So cute. Perfect.

19:47

As we've been talking a lot about identity and I know

19:49

like identity is like a really multi

19:51

pronged concept.

19:53

I also think I'd be remiss to not go

19:55

back and ask you about growing

19:57

up in an orthodox.

19:59

community in Australia. And

20:02

I've read, and you also said that

20:04

you don't consider yourself particularly

20:06

Jewish. And you

20:08

refer to yourself more so like culturally Jewish.

20:11

And I wonder,

20:13

in what ways do you still see that part of your identity

20:15

showing up today?

20:17

It's weird. It's hard to describe, I think, to people

20:19

who maybe aren't

20:22

Jewish because, okay, so it is a religion,

20:24

right? Obviously. But there's

20:26

just such a deep cultural side

20:28

to it too. And so for me, for

20:31

example, that looked like

20:33

going to a Jewish school, right? There

20:35

was only one Jewish school in Perth, so

20:37

all of the Jewish kids went there. We didn't

20:40

really

20:41

socialize that much outside of the

20:43

school, which sounds weird. Like it sounds like scary

20:46

and culty or something, but it's just like that

20:48

was all of our friends and stuff like that. So I grew up

20:51

pretty much only really knowing Jewish people.

20:54

And then the things that we all had in common was that

20:57

on Friday night, we would have dinner with our families and

20:59

we would go to each other's houses for Shabbat dinner and stuff like

21:01

that. And then the high holidays and within

21:04

the community, because there was only one school,

21:07

there was the whole scope of how

21:10

observant you are with the religion. So

21:12

there was people who were super, super, super religious

21:14

who would like, my best friend growing up,

21:17

kept kosher, wouldn't eat out at restaurants

21:19

and wore a kippah and kept

21:22

Shabbat and did all this stuff. Then

21:24

you had my family who were like

21:26

pretty observant when I was like a little, little kid

21:29

and then grew out of it. And after

21:32

my bamitzvah, after I was like 13, I basically

21:35

stopped everything. Like I didn't really do anything

21:37

except for the stuff that my family did.

21:39

But the thing is that

21:41

I feel Jewish in the same

21:43

way that I feel like Australian

21:45

or something. I don't know. It's like the food, it's

21:48

the family, it's everything.

21:51

That's who I am. I think as

21:53

well for me, my

21:55

dad's family, the

21:58

only line that survived. the

22:00

Holocaust was my direct

22:02

line. And so I think for me, there's a sense

22:05

of pride and duty

22:07

that even no matter

22:09

how far I stray

22:12

away from God or whatever.

22:16

My kids, it's super important

22:18

to me that they know that they're Jewish. I would

22:20

imagine it's similar to like,

22:23

no, I can't really relate it to anything.

22:25

What food makes you think of your family?

22:28

I guess all like

22:30

a lot of traditional Albanian food

22:33

that I at home always makes me think of

22:37

Kosovo. But I completely

22:39

relate to

22:40

the idea of having really deep roots,

22:43

even though we're not particularly

22:46

religious. But I think just like

22:48

the idea of

22:49

being from Kosovo or being Albanian

22:51

and really feeling proud of it and wanting

22:54

that to continue on even through generations,

22:57

I think is so beautiful and I think is so

22:59

important. But it always evidently

23:01

goes back to the idea of family

23:04

that I kind of touched on that is

23:06

super similar between us. And

23:09

I know that during COVID, you moved back to Australia.

23:11

And

23:11

I've been there a few times for tour and I

23:13

actually saw you last time I was there in Melbourne.

23:16

And when I think about our crazy lives

23:19

and all the traveling that we do for work, I

23:21

guess I just really wanted to ask you what is,

23:23

what does home mean for you? It's

23:27

probably just where my family is because like, it

23:29

used to be Perth. And then when I was living in America,

23:32

my family moved from Perth to Melbourne. And

23:34

now like, I don't think of Perth, you know,

23:36

it's definitely not the city. It's like,

23:38

it's where my family is. And I

23:42

really like having a space that feels

23:45

like mine. You know, that's something that I had for the first time

23:47

in COVID is like I

23:49

renovated

23:49

my house in Melbourne and made it something

23:52

that I'm really attached to as like

23:54

a space. And I've realized that that's

23:56

something that I feel really lucky to have. So

23:59

that I've had some sort of

24:02

say in is important to me.

24:04

But I think the number one thing is just like where

24:06

my family is.

24:07

We could go anywhere. I feel like we would be fine.

24:11

Yeah, I love that. I think I feel the same.

24:13

I think sometimes the concept of home is kind of

24:15

really difficult to pin

24:17

down, but as long as it's a place where you feel safe, where

24:19

you're around people that you love, then

24:21

kind of you can make anywhere home.

24:29

We'll be right back.

24:36

She

24:54

is snatched. Hello, Jake Shears. Hi,

24:56

Michelle. Jessie Ware, Katie Price,

24:59

and Kesha.

24:59

Hi, oh my gosh. Honey,

25:02

my podcast

25:02

is so juicy. It's like the forbidden

25:05

fruit you can't resist. Michelle

25:07

Visages, Rule Breakers. Listen

25:10

on BBC Sounds.

25:24

And then we decide if they are actually

25:26

good, bad, or just plain wealthy. So

25:28

if you

25:29

want to know if Rihanna is as much of a bad

25:31

gal as she claims, or what Jeff Bezos

25:33

really did to become the first person in history

25:36

to pocket $100 billion.

25:37

Listen to Good Bad Billionaire with me,

25:40

Simon Jack. And me, Zing Zing, available

25:42

now wherever you get your podcasts.

25:51

Now I want to turn back to your

25:52

new music, including

25:55

your new single, Rush,

25:58

which you've just released. Yes. And

26:01

everyone's super excited and

26:03

it's amazing. The last time you dropped

26:05

an album was 2018 with

26:09

Bloom, which is crazy actually.

26:11

You've been working on this for a long

26:13

time. What do you think has changed about

26:16

yourself between then and now and what

26:18

you're most excited for your

26:20

listeners and fans to learn about? And

26:23

what do you think are some things that you learned about yourself

26:25

as well in these few years too? It's

26:28

crazy to think about because you've known me the whole time,

26:30

so you know exactly everything that I'm like talking

26:33

about. But I didn't

26:36

mean to take five years to make it. It was like a

26:39

mixture of a bunch of things. It was COVID. I

26:41

filmed the Idol for like a year, you know, like all that

26:43

stuff.

26:44

But basically I went

26:46

through this massive breakup

26:49

and then I think I had this idea

26:51

in my head

26:53

that I was the authority on intimacy

26:57

and what like real intimacy was

26:59

and what it should feel like and what it should look like

27:01

and everything because I had had this like serious boyfriend

27:03

of four years and whatever. And

27:06

then

27:07

in being single, first

27:09

I thought I was going to write like a breakup album, which like really

27:11

bummed me out. I didn't want to do it. Anyways, I

27:13

started to like

27:15

open myself up the tiniest little bit

27:17

to new people.

27:18

And there was this one particular

27:21

guy and he was

27:23

like, can I sleep over?

27:25

And I was like, damn, I really don't do

27:28

that because I think, you know, again, it was that thing of like,

27:30

well, why would I pretend to be this guy's boyfriend

27:32

for a night? Like I just met this guy. Why are we

27:34

going to sleep together and like cuddle and stuff? That just felt really

27:37

awkward to me. And

27:39

anyways, I ended up saying yes, that he could. Despite

27:43

your thoughts. Despite my thoughts. We

27:45

were talking and he was like, no, this is like my favorite

27:47

part of

27:49

booking up with someone. You know, it's like this is one of life's

27:51

greatest pleasures. It's like, even if I never see you again,

27:53

the fact that we get to like have

27:55

this

27:56

moment and this like connection just for one night

27:58

is like, I think that's really special. And

28:01

I don't know why, it just rocked my world and

28:04

like blew my mind because you know what, the truth is I

28:06

loved cuddling him that night. And like I haven't

28:08

seen him again. But we just had this really, really

28:10

nice moment. And so

28:12

everything started to like click into my head where I

28:14

was like, I'm single,

28:17

I'm

28:19

still kind of young. COVID

28:21

is like taking, we had periods in Melbourne where

28:24

there would be zero COVID and we could go out. And

28:26

I fell in love with going out and partying. I was partying more than

28:29

I ever have. And like, that's

28:31

why Rush was such an important song to me. I wanted one

28:33

song that was just unapologetic, club, like

28:35

hot, sweaty. And I wanted to kind of kick off

28:37

the album with a song like

28:39

that.

28:40

But I hope that the album, when people

28:42

hear it, feels like those

28:45

couple of years of just like finding

28:47

resilience in yourself that you didn't know that

28:50

you had, finding community in

28:52

ways that you didn't know you could, relying

28:54

on your friends,

28:56

loving music, meeting

28:58

new people, like exploring,

29:00

just all of these awesome things. So I

29:02

have to say thank you to that guy because he totally

29:05

like set me on this path.

29:07

It's funny how some people just come into your life

29:09

exactly for like a special reason.

29:11

They leave a special mark on your life and then you

29:13

can carry on in a... Yeah, it's

29:16

sweet when things like that happen. I

29:18

guess Bloom was naturally much more

29:20

of a mature album than your

29:23

first record, Blue Neighborhood. And

29:25

I understand that your lyrical honesty

29:28

and transparency

29:29

kind of came with a lot more poking and prodding from

29:32

the press and everybody wanting to know

29:34

like what

29:35

certain things about

29:37

your personal life, what they meant, what certain

29:39

words were. You know, even when it was kind of...

29:42

When you write a song, you put kind of subliminal

29:44

messages in and they're meant to be subtle.

29:47

And then you have people being like, yeah, but well, can

29:49

you just tell me what this means? You know,

29:51

when you're doing all the promo

29:53

and stuff. Have those sorts

29:56

of questions or responses or

29:59

stuff like that.

29:59

ever change the way that you lay it

30:03

in on your art or do you just

30:05

not go a fuck and you're just going to do what you want to do

30:07

and keep people guessing? No,

30:09

I'm going to do what I want to do definitely.

30:12

It doesn't change the way

30:14

that I write, but

30:17

you know I haven't really started doing interviews for this album

30:19

yet. Like this is you know one of the first and

30:21

I don't yet know how I'm going to talk

30:23

about a few songs on that.

30:26

And I think when it comes to

30:28

that I'm

30:30

not going to sacrifice

30:33

the expression and the catharsis

30:36

that I need and I try and

30:38

handle everything like ethically behind

30:40

the scenes. You know if something is about someone

30:42

I'll try and like send it to them or if I

30:44

feel like it's going to be obvious

30:46

that it's about them and

30:48

whatever.

30:49

But when it comes to having

30:51

to explain myself

30:54

and explain the music, I think I'm

30:56

just going to you know I sort of have figured it out on like

30:59

a case-by-case basis and that's worked

31:01

sometimes and it hasn't worked other times as well.

31:03

You know sometimes

31:05

things get blown away at a proportion in

31:07

a funny way, but like for example Bloom the song

31:09

has like defined the way that people I think

31:12

talk about me, at least the stuff that I see. And

31:15

it's like I don't know it's just interesting. So it's like

31:17

I think I do have to be a little bit more careful than

31:19

maybe I was last time when deciding

31:22

how much to explain and how much to just like be like I don't know listen

31:24

to it and you tell me what you think.

31:26

All right. Yeah. It's exciting

31:28

though. I think always just like pushing the boundaries

31:30

and talking about your

31:33

personal experience and whatever way you choose to

31:35

I think that's also like down to you like say case-by-case

31:37

basis. You can decide whether or not. It

31:40

also depends how the interviewer asks

31:42

you. The thing is is like a lot

31:44

of the time when when people ask me like oh does

31:46

the person that you wrote the song about know that

31:48

you wrote it about them and it's just like well

31:51

you know I think if they were to listen

31:54

to it there are certain things that only that person will

31:56

know if that makes

31:57

it about them you know. Yeah. But other

31:59

than that, than that I have no plan on

32:01

trying to like dish that

32:04

out or you know. No, that's

32:06

the thing, same.

32:07

That sounds really scary and not fun.

32:09

Yeah and not exciting at all. I'm like you

32:11

know what, I much prefer that these

32:13

songs find a home with someone else

32:16

in the way that it means something for them and

32:18

then what it means to me is completely personal. It's

32:20

what helps me like perform them on stage.

32:22

Totally. You know it gives me something

32:24

completely different so I

32:26

think it depends. Yeah and I mean the

32:28

other thing I take company in is it could be made up.

32:31

Like you don't know. Completely. I could have been feeling

32:33

really creative in the studio and made up these

32:35

two characters and like you know whatever

32:38

so

32:39

yeah. But you'll just decide what story you want to tell

32:41

that day. Exactly. Speaking

32:44

of stories, you are one

32:46

of the stars of the weekend's

32:48

new HBO series The Idol

32:51

and I actually saw somewhere

32:53

that you refer to your role as the first time

32:55

in your life where you really felt like an actor

32:58

and I thought that was really interesting because you've

33:01

done

33:01

a lot of acting work

33:04

and I just wanted to know what

33:05

to you felt so

33:08

different about this project

33:11

in comparison to your roles in like Boya

33:13

Raised or Three Months for

33:15

example. I think really

33:17

what I was referring to is just like the the

33:19

fact that we filmed for so long and that

33:22

we were going to the same place every day and and I

33:25

wasn't really working on music at that time. It just

33:28

felt like a real job and it felt like I

33:30

was I think also like the fact that it's an ensemble cast.

33:33

We were all kind of showing up clocking in every day

33:35

as like actors. You know that was what we were there

33:37

to do. I

33:38

was like okay this is like what it feels like to be an actor

33:41

but I still don't feel

33:45

like an actor first. I don't

33:47

know why. I just like I don't think I

33:50

don't know if it's because I have this other thing that I just nothing

33:53

will ever compare to the way that I feel about music.

33:56

I don't know if maybe it's just that but but

33:58

then

33:59

you know I see someone

34:01

like Lily who cares

34:04

about acting in the way that you and I care

34:06

about music, and she

34:09

goes to sleep thinking about it, and she

34:11

wakes up thinking about it. So

34:14

when I saw that, I was like, okay, I don't know

34:16

if I have that. I

34:18

don't know if I do. And I really, really

34:21

enjoy it. I really, really do. But

34:24

if someone was to say to me, you can only

34:26

do one, which will never happen, obviously, but I

34:28

would have to choose music. And that almost makes me feel a bit guilty.

34:31

There are other people who really, really, really

34:33

want this so much. And I already have

34:36

my

34:37

music that I love and adore so much. So

34:39

I think there's a bit of

34:42

imposter syndrome slash guilt. I

34:44

mean, that's the other thing. It's so

34:46

interesting hearing you say the

34:48

guilt thing because you're good

34:51

at it and you enjoy it. And it's

34:53

almost like you're stopping yourself

34:55

from doing things that you love because I don't

34:57

know, there's some kind of internal

35:00

feeling of, I don't know what it is, to

35:02

be honest. This is not a therapy session, so I

35:04

don't know what I'm trying

35:05

to get at. But it's interesting when

35:08

you love something so much to also feel

35:10

like, but I guess maybe your love for

35:12

music just kind of takes over. And

35:13

that's

35:15

great because you're very, very good

35:17

at that. So it just, you

35:19

know, you're in a good position.

35:22

Oh, thanks. Since we've been

35:24

talking so much about identity today,

35:26

I actually want to end on

35:30

who

35:30

is Troye Sivan today,

35:32

what's changed, and what's

35:34

remained steady

35:36

in your sense of self over the years. Wow.

35:40

It's a big one. I

35:43

think I'm a lot more fun than I used

35:45

to be. That's been kind

35:47

of a big thing for me. And

35:51

definitely the most kind of confident and settled.

35:53

And I feel

35:55

like I can kind of zoom out a little bit and have a big

35:57

picture view of Things

36:00

don't freak me out as much as they used to, basically, which

36:03

is a really nice feeling. And

36:06

that's all kind of new, so that's all changed,

36:08

I think. And the things that have stayed the same,

36:10

I still really care about my family.

36:13

I still really care about Australia. I

36:16

think something that I'm looking

36:18

forward to is prioritizing

36:21

life outside of work a little bit more. Again,

36:24

I can zoom out and see a big picture and I kind of know,

36:26

like, okay, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to

36:28

do this and then I'm going to really

36:31

put in the time to

36:33

just be in one place for a while and do

36:35

other things that are important to me as well. So

36:38

who do you want the choice of art of tomorrow to

36:40

be? In the immediate future,

36:42

the things that are important to me are travel

36:45

as much as you can, have fun,

36:47

go out, meet

36:49

people,

36:50

just enjoy every

36:53

second of life. And I think that

36:55

that will forever be important to me, but me

36:58

in five years, I'm sort of doing it with

37:00

the knowledge that I want things to look kind of different

37:03

for me in a couple of years. My

37:06

family is starting to have kids

37:09

and there's just a lot

37:11

that I want to be there for. And so I'm

37:13

just sort of going one million miles an

37:15

hour right now, living it up, enjoying every second

37:17

of it, because I know that I'm going to make

37:19

a change soon, I

37:20

think. Oh, and I love that.

37:24

Obviously, Troy, I like to end each

37:26

of my podcasts with a list and

37:29

with your new album rapidly approaching. I'd

37:32

love for you to tell us five things that

37:34

most creatively inspired you while making

37:37

it that my listeners can then go off

37:39

and enjoy on their own. Okay.

37:43

Number one, I would say to meet

37:46

a Joe, the Janet Jackson album. I

37:49

love that album so much.

37:50

Go listen to that.

37:52

I would say go clubbing,

37:55

but not to like it. I mean, actually, you know

37:57

what, I was going to say not to like a big cheesy club.

37:59

whatever the night out

38:02

is that's going to make you like

38:04

the least self-conscious where you can just be

38:06

with your friends and enjoy. Like don't make it about

38:08

hooking up with anyone, don't make it about like meeting someone,

38:10

whatever. Just go with your friends to

38:13

dance. Like that is the goal of the night, you

38:15

know. It's not about going in like, oh, should

38:17

we go get a drink? And then like, do you want to do a

38:19

loop or whatever? Like, no, you're there to dance.

38:22

Highly recommend that.

38:24

If you can prioritize

38:26

travel, I think that that's like a big

38:28

thing that I would highly recommend is like actually going

38:30

on a holiday. Even if it's just like

38:33

an hour drive away or something from where you live, I think

38:36

going on group holidays, that's something

38:38

that really inspired me that I really recommend.

38:40

Number four, there's

38:43

this book called The Ethical Slut that

38:46

was really interesting. And I read

38:49

it at I think the right time where I was like

38:52

just really being like, oh,

38:54

cool, free love, like whatever, you

38:56

know, that whole vibe.

38:59

That's an interesting read. And lastly,

39:03

there's

39:03

that movie.

39:06

So there's Before Sunrise, then there's Before Sunset. And

39:09

I don't know which is the first one,

39:11

but that's the one that I watched. And that movie,

39:14

I think just sort of solidified that

39:16

like idea of an instant connection and that

39:18

idea of enjoying a connection for what

39:20

it is, no

39:21

matter how fleeting or not

39:25

it is, I think

39:28

opening yourself up to the world,

39:32

not kind of sitting at home on your phone and

39:34

actually going out and like really putting yourself

39:37

out there has been a super big

39:39

principle of mine for the last couple of years.

39:42

And so, yeah, I recommend that movie.

39:45

Amazing. Troy, thank you so much. Thank

39:47

you so much. This has been so fun.

39:50

I've loved having you on the podcast

39:53

and I just love you and I'm excited

39:55

to see you soon. I love you too. Hopefully not

39:57

through a screen next time.

39:59

What

40:04

an absolute treat to have Troy on

40:07

our episode today. I really hope you

40:09

all enjoyed our conversation. Troy

40:11

has very generously given Service 95

40:13

an exclusive list of the five spots

40:16

he'd recommend to someone looking to get a taste

40:18

of Australia's queer scene, so be

40:20

sure to give that a read. I'm

40:23

so excited about this week's sex issue

40:25

of our Service 95 newsletter, which we've been

40:27

working on for quite some time now. It's

40:30

filled with stories, including a piece on the rise

40:32

of cosmetic surgery that mimics the look of

40:34

sex dolls, at the same time that sex

40:36

dolls are becoming more human.

40:38

Check out service95.com for that

40:40

story and the entire sex issue, which

40:43

is available for free right now. You

40:45

can always read our stories on the website, and

40:48

if you want them delivered straight to your inbox when they

40:50

drop on Thursdays, you can subscribe for

40:52

free at service95.com. I'll

40:54

put a direct link in the show notes

40:56

for you.

40:57

I'd be remiss if I didn't take a moment to thank

41:00

you all from the very bottom of my heart for listening

41:02

to this season of At Your Service. You've

41:05

come along on this incredible journey with me as

41:07

I've gotten to explore this new side of myself, one

41:10

where I'm in the interviewer's chair for

41:12

a change. It's taught me so, so

41:14

much, and I've had the time of my life working on this

41:16

season. I'm so grateful that

41:18

in this increasingly busy world, you made the

41:20

time to tune in. I promise that

41:23

it hasn't gone unnoticed. For now,

41:25

I want to leave you with this as we close our

41:27

third season.

41:27

Thank you a million times over, and

41:30

I hope to speak to you all very, very soon.

41:47

If

41:52

you

41:52

want to know if Rihanna is as much of a bad

41:54

gal as she claims, or what Jeff

41:57

Bezos really did to become the first

41:59

person in history...

41:59

to pocket $100 billion, listen

42:02

to Good Bad Billionaire with me, Simon

42:04

Jack, and meet Zing Zing, available

42:06

now on BBC Sounds.