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Come on it to a yearly absurd

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but one that any you and I

1:02

have not been on at the same

1:04

time since Twenty Twenty One A due

1:06

to our respective familial obligations. the Well

1:08

time the last two springs as I

1:10

could be good to talk about this

1:12

stuff get into else I actually have

1:14

were time want to go back and

1:16

look at our rankings from the last

1:19

time we did the three other into

1:21

a gentle and see how precious we

1:23

in fact we're But let's just start

1:25

by telling people what we're trying to

1:27

accomplish. This is a different filter and

1:29

a different criteria then prospect rankings did

1:31

the young prospect rankings and all that.

1:33

So first of all the eligibility pool

1:35

is players who. this is their basketball

1:37

reference age twenty five season were younger.

1:39

So this is not. You know that

1:41

the youngest of the young but they're

1:43

still be known. Plenty of plenty of

1:45

players that are on their rookie scale

1:47

contract and everything like that and then

1:49

the other one from the player by

1:51

player perspective. In correct me if I'm

1:53

wrong. But the way that I generally

1:55

think about it is this is. more

1:57

over the life of their career

2:00

or at least like kind of their relevant career.

2:02

So it's not just like the next two to

2:04

three years It's it's kind of where things are

2:06

where things are going Yeah I think when you

2:09

have guys 25 or under the idea is kind

2:11

of like yeah You know you can this group

2:13

could be kept together for five years at least

2:15

You know, we're kind of looking at like that

2:18

is at least our next time horizon It's a

2:20

young enough group where you're like, yeah, none of

2:22

these guys are gonna age out The

2:25

ultimate inspiration for this was back

2:27

when I was actually a Bulls

2:29

fan when I was really excited about

2:31

the Bulls young core and like the 20 the 2003

2:37

2004 season and then Jay Williams ended up getting

2:39

hurt. But oh man, they still have all these

2:41

guys I got Eddie Curry and they got Tyson

2:43

Chandler got Jamal Crawford and oh my god Marcus

2:45

Pfizer They drafted him in the top ten and

2:47

those guys never really worked out It was really

2:49

a pretty different group that ended up having a

2:51

Renaissance for the Bulls in the middle part of

2:53

that decade So I was like, yeah, you know

2:55

what? Like fans look to get really excited about

2:58

it. This is also a Category

3:00

that is it's aroused some of the

3:02

most ire for that. You know, yeah

3:04

Notice that that fans get

3:06

more overprotective of their young guys and that's

3:08

what the NBA is selling in a lot

3:11

of cases So I understand that so that's

3:13

the idea to make it 25 not 23

3:15

because it's really more about the team and

3:17

what this is all gonna Look like going

3:20

forward over a long period of time and

3:22

generally also guys 25 or under are gonna

3:24

have like pretty good Contractual control by the

3:26

team. What else do we need to hit

3:29

on here before we begin? Couple other

3:31

things that I consider one of them

3:33

is how do the pieces fit together?

3:36

Do you have players with MVP or

3:38

best player on a playoff team upside

3:41

and in a very loose sense? This is

3:43

like the lowest you could even think of it as more of

3:45

a tiebreaker There is a vague element

3:47

of like team control since this is team

3:49

specific. So I'll give an example So

3:52

miles bridges is 25. He

3:54

is eligible for this list. However, he is an

3:56

unrestricted free agent in a couple of months. He's

3:59

gonna play, you know. The only guaranteed to play

4:01

another like ten games for the Charlotte Hornets

4:03

so I tell him he still is a

4:05

part of the consideration but if your you

4:07

know like we know you're a part of

4:09

it or leads the team has the ability

4:11

is is a small thing but for me

4:13

more it but I want to focus more

4:15

on the Mvp upside or that that such

4:17

an that check a boxes because when you

4:19

use the phrase young core a part of

4:21

with fashion were filtering out the best of

4:23

the best everything else is how close is

4:25

this to being. Of complete seem

4:28

how causes us to being a good

4:30

complete team and if you can get

4:32

your you know saw rim protector of

4:34

using get your lead off and some

4:36

creator. If you have to have those

4:38

things in your in this group then

4:40

that is so much less as a

4:42

front office. as a coach they have

4:44

to incorporate from other places and so

4:46

to me those are more valuable young

4:48

corps and will talk a lot of

4:50

different moments in time about I call

4:52

them the one man bans vs everything

4:54

else. your as light as the I'm

4:56

so. There are a few. There are few

4:59

teams were it is largely held by one

5:01

player, but if that player has the ability

5:03

to be the best player on a playoff

5:05

team in the series or anything else like

5:07

that, you can argue that you rather have

5:10

that you can fill out around that than

5:12

a bunch of maybe starting caliber players or

5:14

even clear starting caliber players who are more

5:16

compliment or the paper today. point. And I

5:18

will also add that I'm not really too

5:21

interested in Canada or Dicey don't project to

5:23

be high quality starters. That's what I'm going

5:25

to focus on the most here. And

5:27

obviously having that one superstars really awesome

5:29

but then as you alluded to how

5:31

to you parse between said to Dallas

5:33

Mavericks with Luca.church and like a few

5:35

other guys not of whom were to

5:37

be like awesome high level stars maybe

5:39

they lived on or off the celtics

5:41

with Tatum they still brown has a

5:43

daughter this little really avenue and also

5:46

Consequence vs some of these more and

5:48

sambal cast that have like four five

5:50

really good young players that may be

5:52

no one player who projects to be

5:54

as good as Luca or Tatum so

5:56

we'll try to. talk for way through that

5:58

oh and law and one other thing mention

6:00

just because people will say this well

6:02

what about X our lists include I

6:04

tried to go through every every player

6:06

on a full NBA contract who is

6:08

25 or younger active on that list

6:11

just because we don't mention a player doesn't mean

6:13

they weren't on our list or we consider others

6:15

like oh what about what about Craig Porter Jr.

6:17

well Craig Porter Jr. is on our list we

6:19

might not talk about him but he will he

6:22

was somebody that we consider within the Cavs section

6:24

yeah Craig Porter Jr. nice player not someone I'm

6:26

projecting as likely to be a future starter he

6:28

could get there but likely perhaps I thought

6:30

this is an extremely competitive field uh

6:33

with a lot of depth I mean I

6:35

thought actually there are as many as probably

6:38

nine or ten teams below number one that

6:40

would have a reasonable argument to be number

6:42

two on this list so I'm looking forward

6:44

to talking through that with you as well

6:47

I mean there are even teams that have

6:49

you know a number of young starters and

6:51

like an all-star already under 25 they're like

6:53

not in my top 10 so let's begin

6:56

though with the team that I thought clearly

6:58

is number one tier one the Oklahoma

7:00

City Thunder they have a 55 team

7:02

basically with this young core by itself

7:04

right now and they have players in

7:07

every single position it is a complete

7:09

squad it is most of their rotation

7:12

in some cases it could be even more

7:14

of their rotation if they you know they

7:16

excised Gordon Hayward which which may become me

7:18

I mean they're already 50 and 21 and

7:20

what makes the Thunder I have them in

7:22

their own tier I just have I don't do

7:25

all of it with your tier one Oklahoma City is

7:27

because they have a player who could be the MVP

7:29

this year and she go to Alexander who is continuing

7:31

to improve they have multiple offensive

7:33

creators so that you you don't have

7:35

to worry about like what happens if

7:38

this guy gets hurt or underachieves they

7:40

have a defensive identity and shed home

7:42

grin and it's just incredible I

7:44

mean really the main the biggest player on

7:46

the Thunder who is not included within this

7:48

is Lou Dorr because Lou Dorr is aged

7:50

out but pretty much everyone else Shay Chet

7:53

Jalen will oh no sorry Lou Dorr is 24 I

7:55

apologize I just missed his name in the

7:58

massive pile of Thunder um giddy Kacen

8:00

Wallace, Isaiah Joe, Aaron Wiggins, Jaylen Williams. That

8:02

is a full NBA rotation of one of

8:04

the best teams in the league. Yeah,

8:08

there's no theory behind it. We've already

8:10

seen it in practice. Here's another way

8:12

to look at this. The Thunder have

8:14

arguably the best player under 25 and

8:17

Jay Gilders Alexander, I would say. Tatum

8:19

and Luca are probably the only ones

8:21

who have an argument to me. And

8:24

then, so that's like their number one.

8:26

Their number two is either Holmgren or

8:28

Jaylen Williams. That's probably maybe

8:30

not the best second best guy. Like, you

8:32

know, if you want to say Bain or

8:34

Jaren Jackson as the second best guy, I

8:36

might be willing to listen, but Shay is

8:38

obviously way better than John as the first

8:40

guy. And then as a third best guy

8:42

as well, whether that's Jaylen Williams or Chad,

8:44

I mean, there's just no contest with that

8:46

either. And that's both right now. And I

8:48

would say also as a prospect. And then

8:50

they also have plenty of depth in. They

8:52

have two other starters in Dort and Giddy,

8:54

I would say is kind of more of

8:56

a backup type. But then you've got Kacen

8:58

Wallace, Isaiah Joe, even Aaron Wiggins, like they

9:01

literally have a complete team. And even Ushman

9:03

Jang, who I realized has not really figured

9:05

for two years is still someone I think

9:07

has some potential. Hopefully he won't be the

9:09

next Seiko Domboya, but they

9:12

just haven't really needed him, but he does have

9:14

some interesting skills and tools. So yeah, I think

9:16

there's just, there's no argument. I think we can

9:18

just move on. Oklahoma City

9:20

is just an incredible situation right now. And

9:22

then they also have so many assets going

9:25

forward. My only fear is just that financial

9:27

reasons will eventually force them to break the

9:29

team up. But it's part of why I

9:31

think they should be very aggressively going for it

9:33

right now. They should, yeah. You talked about that

9:35

in your chat and Discord on Tuesday. I thought

9:38

I read the transcript, thought that was compelling. And

9:40

the next group is really, I mean, the

9:43

way that I ended up sifting it, because

9:45

there are a lot of other really good

9:47

courses you were talking about, was kind of

9:49

two different ideas. One is self-sufficiency. Like how

9:51

much of a really good team do you

9:53

have in just these players? And

9:56

then the other part of it was the idea of, you know, like best players

9:59

in a playoff series. So. For me, the

10:01

like kind of, and this is a tier, so you

10:03

can argue different places within it. The

10:06

top two that I found compelling of

10:08

the similar mold to each other are

10:10

the Grizzlies and the Caps. So with

10:12

the Grizzlies, you have that trio that

10:15

you just brought up of John Marant,

10:17

Jaron Jackson, Desmond Vane. Those three are

10:19

on the older side, Marant Jackson, age

10:21

24, C's in Bain age 25. But

10:24

you have a strong offensive foundation

10:26

when available with those guys.

10:28

And you have in Jaron Jackson, Jr., A, the

10:31

reigning defensive player of the year, but an important

10:33

part of your defensive foundation who is also an offensively

10:36

competent player as well, which is

10:38

extremely valuable. So with them, you

10:40

have that approach. And there are a few other rolls

10:42

of the dice that we can talk about if we

10:44

want to. And then with the Caps, it's actually

10:46

kind of a similar idea, except a little bit more

10:49

defense focused, where you have Mobley and Allen, who

10:51

are both still eligible, Mobley 22, Allen

10:53

at 25. And then you have Darius

10:55

Garland. So you don't have Donovan Mitchell.

10:57

You lose part of their offensive foundation,

10:59

but you have two very good defenders

11:01

who can play, who have played at

11:03

a high level for multiple years now.

11:05

So for me, I think of them

11:07

as very similar in the kind of

11:09

general type of strong court. When I

11:11

was first putting together these, I had

11:14

initially, and I'm going to walk

11:16

this back, but I was thinking

11:18

through my thought process, a two, two, three,

11:20

four tier of the Grizz, the Caps, and

11:23

then also the Pelicans, who basically have all

11:25

of their important players other than centers and

11:27

Brandon Ingram, I think you have 26 still.

11:30

But the Palace have Zion, Herb

11:32

Jones at 25, Murphy is

11:34

23. So we got Dyson Daniels, Jordan Hawkins, who

11:36

I like a lot. Hovah Zayl Farada is still

11:38

25. So close to a starting

11:40

level unit that I think is like

11:42

a playoff level team by itself. Obviously,

11:44

we know the Grizzlies, they have, I

11:47

think, missed some of the role players that

11:49

they moved on, but they should be able to

11:51

get other guys of that ilk to fit around.

11:53

You've got the ball handler, the shooter, the big,

11:55

that's pretty good to try to build around, even

11:58

if they don't have that one awesome. And

12:00

they got a couple of outs still in

12:02

G.G. Jackson and Sire Williams and Santi Altama

12:04

is a rotation big. And then same thing

12:06

with the Cavs, even without Donovan Mitchell, before

12:09

Mitchell got there when the Cavs were healthy,

12:11

they were a very good, you know, solid

12:13

playoff team. Even without him

12:15

when healthy. Do have some concerns about

12:17

the Mobley-Allen group, like that does pay

12:19

play into this. And Darius Garland hasn't

12:22

been as good really since two

12:24

years ago. And you know, Coro is

12:26

probably more of a kind of swing

12:28

starter bench guy. And then and I

12:30

thought about that and I think I think

12:32

the Grizz are the group I feel the

12:35

best about having them here. Though some of

12:37

the concerns about Moran and Jackson and Vane

12:39

both on the injury front and with Moran's

12:41

the Sanity front concerned me. But like we've

12:43

seen proof of concept mostly from that. Yeah.

12:45

And on that front last year, the Memphis

12:47

Grizzlies had a plus five net rating. They

12:49

were 51 and 31 with these

12:51

players as the foundation of their success. They've

12:53

done it. Yeah. And and in theory, all

12:56

these guys should be better. We'll see about

12:58

John. We'll see about maybe even Jaren is

13:00

taking a step back defensively this year. But

13:02

as I thought about it, I was like,

13:04

man, how do you compare compare these guys

13:06

to a few other teams? I think the

13:10

Mavs, you know, Luke Adonchic is way better

13:12

than anyone on those three teams that I

13:14

just talked about. Jason Tatum on the Celtics

13:16

at 25. They basically have nobody else but

13:18

just station taken by himself. That's he's way better than

13:21

those. I think generally, though, I like to have a

13:23

little bit more depth than that. Like that's just it's

13:25

just not a core. That's a player. You know, you

13:27

do have to have at least kind of like two

13:29

guys, I would say. And the Mavs have

13:31

that with Donchic, Derek Lively, Gafford and PJ

13:33

Washington are actually both 25. Josh Green is

13:35

a rotation player at 24. I'm

13:38

sure they still have some hosts for Hardy and

13:40

Omax Prosper. The Pacers have Tyreese.

13:42

He's better, I think, than anybody in

13:45

that Grizzlies, Pelicans, Cavs group. Anthony Edwards,

13:47

to me, is better than anyone in

13:49

that Grizzly Pelicans Cavs group. And they

13:51

also have Jaden McDaniels. Now it's reading

13:53

to Keal Alexander Walker. No

13:55

KAT or Govere there, though. Then

13:57

you also have the Magic with

13:59

basic. Basically, everyone who matters on

14:01

their team is under 25 and is part

14:03

of this and also like not only 25

14:06

but like younger than 25 and they're already

14:08

like in the mix for home court advantage

14:10

this season. Right. Admittedly, in

14:12

a very injured East, I don't think that'd

14:14

be the case if the Knicks or Cavs

14:16

are healthy. Oh, by the way, one of

14:18

the players who is there are a few

14:20

where you see this name on the list

14:22

and you're like, Oh my God, they're still

14:24

eligible. Mark health full 25 still in the

14:26

young course eligibility, not a heavy factor, but

14:29

in there. And then the San Antonio Spurs have

14:31

the guy that we ranked number one on our top

14:33

prospect list. He's only 20

14:35

and he's only to me extended his lead

14:37

in that since December. That was when he

14:39

hadn't even really been playing any center yet

14:42

and he's gotten crazy defensively since then. They

14:44

don't have anyone else that I definitely saw is like

14:47

I would say is just a starter and they don't

14:49

even else who really is like a surefire start like

14:51

a couple of rotation guys and Kelvin Johnson, Trey Jones,

14:53

Sohan, at least as an obviously some of these guys

14:55

can be better, but the Spurs are kind of they're

14:57

kind of just getting started. They don't, they're not that

15:00

complete. So I don't know if I would

15:02

put them quite in this group yet because

15:04

we haven't seen proof of concept from anything

15:06

close to this group. And I think also

15:08

the other thing is with Victor, even though

15:10

he's like this unbelievable highlight machine and some

15:12

of the defensive stats are amazing. I think

15:14

there still is going to be a little

15:16

bit of a curve of just he's almost,

15:18

he breaks the mold so much to just

15:20

know truly how viable that is and also

15:22

truly how to build around him. So

15:24

I think I'd probably have this for his nodding contention here. Is

15:27

there another one that's looking really,

15:29

really good? So sorry, I've rambled on here

15:31

for a long time, but I mean, do you feel

15:34

that any of those teams I mentioned deserve to be

15:36

in the conversation? You didn't put the Pels in there,

15:38

but I deserved to be in the conversation with the

15:41

Grizz and the Caps. Man,

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18:43

I ended up with six teams in

18:45

my tier two. And

18:47

the line between tier two and tier three was

18:49

hard. And there are different theories of

18:51

it. And you talked about basically all of them.

18:53

So I can do some differentiation

18:56

for me. So

18:58

I ended up with Dallas and San Antonio

19:00

in this group of the more one-man bandy,

19:02

where it's like their value in this is

19:04

coming primarily from one player. Neither of them.

19:07

And part of it, the reason they're in

19:09

there and Boston is not, is because Devin

19:11

Vassal, Calvin Johnson, Derek Lively, Daniel Gafford. You

19:14

can put... There are other players that

19:16

are viable. It's tough when if you take one

19:18

guy out, you're like, oh yeah, these guys would

19:20

clearly be bottom 10 without this one guy. Well,

19:22

and the Celtics would be bottom four. And so

19:24

that's two four. We'll have

19:27

to get into that. There are some

19:29

bereft teams down there. There

19:32

are some bereft teams there. And so for me,

19:34

the Mavs, the Cabs, the Grizz, the Cabs already

19:36

brought up, the Spurs, Wambaniyama is that kind of

19:38

guy. Luca is already that guy. We don't even

19:40

have to wonder about that. And then I have

19:43

the Magic and the Rockets, which are

19:45

more ensemble casts. And one of

19:47

the reasons why I have the Magic here and not the Pelicans,

19:49

which was interesting, you brought them up early, is

19:51

this idea of an offensive and a defensive

19:54

foundation. So the early and the Magic, the

19:56

other offensive foundation with those guys isn't fantastic,

19:58

but it has been viable. for them

20:00

to be a potential top four seed in

20:02

the Eastern Conference this year, and their defense's

20:05

foundation is entirely included within this group, other

20:07

than Jonathan Isaac. So they have, you know,

20:09

you then they have a very good defense

20:12

that is their calling card. And then

20:14

for the Rockets, they're the hardest one in

20:16

this, because I think in some ways, they're,

20:18

they're a volume play, but they're a

20:20

high quality volume play. And what I mean by

20:22

that is Uprin Shankoon is a wonderful player, and

20:25

he's only 21. So you have Shankoon Jabari, who

20:27

has had a good year, but is also

20:29

thriving to an extent as the small ball five and some

20:31

of the interesting stuff. But then you also

20:33

have a man Thompson, Kim Whitmore, Jalen Green and

20:35

Tari Eason. And one of the things that I

20:37

ended up one of the reasons I ended up

20:39

putting the Rockets here, instead of in the tier

20:41

below, which they might in some ways be more

20:44

similar to those teams, is when

20:46

I brought up the Grizzlies in the Cavs,

20:48

one of the strangest things that is true

20:50

with those two teams is that

20:52

they are extremely deep, except for the wing. And

20:54

not only due to positional scarcity, but just in

20:56

terms of what ends up what one of the

20:59

things that can drive winning basketball, even though, you

21:01

know, yoga was the best player in a championship

21:03

team last year, and everything else is

21:05

forward depth, that is a huge part of

21:08

why the Celtics have been successful for these

21:10

last seven years or whatever it's

21:12

been, is that functional wing depth. And so

21:14

for Houston, I don't know that a man

21:16

Thompson, Kim Whitmore, Tari Eason are going to be

21:19

wing stars. But one thing I really like is

21:21

that they can defend, they can defend the position

21:23

and the men can even defend smaller guys if

21:25

you want to do it. And

21:27

they can they can fulfill the other

21:29

responsibilities. And so when you're thinking about

21:32

building a team around this group of

21:34

individuals, we don't know where their careers

21:36

are going to go. But it's actually

21:38

hard. And sometimes it's harder to find

21:40

if we're not talking about the superstar

21:42

guys, it's harder to find some of

21:45

the stuff that the Rockets have, that it

21:47

to fund that it is to find some of

21:49

the stuff that some of the other teams need.

21:51

Like, for example, the early in Magic, like, yes,

21:53

they need I think they need to be a

21:55

truly great team, they need a best offensive player

21:58

better than the guys they have. But They

22:00

have a lot there they could do they work so it's

22:02

in Figuring out between those

22:04

kind of teams and that's why I ended up

22:06

with the Rockets here Yeah, that's interesting thought they

22:08

do have a lot of outs on the wing

22:10

We thought maybe the Grizz did but that that

22:12

hasn't necessarily been the case is Vince Williams Vince.

22:15

Well, yeah Vince Williams I don't think you put

22:17

on that list. I may have missed him to

22:19

be on there. I think he's like 22 23

22:21

or something He is

22:23

23. Yes, that was a mistake of mine. So

22:25

yeah again That's not that he's like some great

22:27

shakes, but it could be I think it will

22:29

be a rotation player Yeah, but here's one way

22:31

I want to look at it Let's do this first because

22:33

I think there are kind of two separate questions here The

22:35

first question I want to ask is this of

22:37

all these teams that we've mentioned Let's

22:40

say they just kind of barely they

22:42

supplement the core with random Scott stop

22:44

gaps And this group grows together and

22:46

becomes fully formed, you know So you're

22:48

looking at maybe a two three four

22:50

year window with these guys when they're

22:52

fully formed five years Hopefully if you're

22:54

kind of looking at the team, right?

22:56

Let's say the Memphis Grizzly. We've already

22:58

seen it, right? We're like, you know,

23:00

John Maranter Jackson doesn't bane and you

23:02

know use your Resources the main

23:04

Brien one more veteran starter and a couple of

23:06

bench pieces Maybe what you draft

23:09

one more guy who can be

23:11

in your rotation of the rookie contract Like

23:13

how many games is that team so the

23:15

Memphis Grizzly? Yeah, I think that's like a

23:17

50 win team, right in that scenario Are

23:19

what let's try to put these teams in

23:21

order just among these under 25 guys in

23:24

terms of you know How good we think

23:26

they'll be five years for an hour whenever

23:28

you want to say they're fully formed some

23:30

of them were younger They're their but their

23:32

best their best window of two years or

23:34

so Let's say like the average are so

23:36

so the Grizzlies last year they won

23:38

51 So did the Cavs

23:40

but the Cavs group does not include Don D'Amitro

23:43

who was their best player last

23:45

year in my opinion So Cleveland you probably knocked

23:47

them down a little bit. They don't have another

23:49

offensive replacement It's a coro and those kinds of

23:51

things so I would say for them But

23:54

you have some age related improvement from Garland

23:56

and Mobley in particular. I would probably say

23:58

they're more of like a high

24:00

40s team, does that seem fair? I think it does, yeah, with

24:03

the Cavs. That seems about

24:05

right to me. They have a really

24:07

good coach that doesn't necessarily play into that

24:09

too much. But yeah, as you're kind of

24:11

thinking about, hey, you know, we're bringing this

24:14

group together, probably when

24:16

we're aiming for a time when all these guys are

24:18

on their second contract. So, you know, maybe we add

24:20

one more veteran starter and try to fill in around

24:22

it as best we can, but this is going to

24:24

be the core of the team. Like, how many with

24:26

average talent around them considering those constraints, how many

24:28

games do you think that those guys will win?

24:30

And yeah, I mean, I just don't think Garland,

24:33

Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, if anywhere near as good

24:35

as John Marant, Jaron Jackson, I think those guys

24:37

are just better. So I would have to move

24:39

Cleveland down in that scenario. I think I'd probably

24:41

have to move New Orleans down too. If

24:44

Zion were, if I believe that he was the

24:46

guy that he was at the start of last

24:48

year or that he was obviously

24:51

more when he was a prospect or

24:53

even his second year to where I could be like, yeah,

24:55

I think Zion wins and it's like better than John Marant.

24:58

But I mean, I think like the Gris just have more

25:00

talent. I think Joss is the best guy of any of

25:03

these guys. Jaron's the best. Like, I

25:05

mean, they have the Gris have like three

25:07

almost all-star level of players and the Pels

25:09

have maybe one in their core. And also

25:11

the Pelicans, they have heard Jones is a

25:13

wonderful defender, but they don't

25:15

have any centers. They don't

25:17

really have that part of the defensive foundation. And

25:19

they don't really have, they only don't really have

25:21

any other like lead creators. They

25:24

have a lot of nice complementary pieces. I

25:26

mean, you and I are both big fans

25:28

to Jordan Hawkins and Trey Murphy's here and

25:30

Daniel has a nice floor game. But

25:32

they don't have those like, you know, like a

25:34

point guard with Broadway. What maybe they helped Kyra

25:37

Lewis was going to be like a point guard

25:39

with promise or something else there. And so

25:41

Jose Alvarado is a really good player, but

25:43

you don't really have any other options in that direction.

25:46

So yeah, I have them in a tier below just

25:49

to mention it. And of course, there's a lot of

25:51

context that goes into it. Using cleaning

25:53

the glasses like the

25:56

expected wins

25:58

for 82 for this year. I think yields

26:00

an interesting part as we're talking

26:02

about this tier. Three teams that I've discussed

26:05

in this are all have basically the same

26:07

expected win total this year. We don't think

26:09

of it because they don't have the same

26:11

actual. And that is the Dallas Mavericks, the

26:13

Orlando Magic, and the Houston Rockets. They're all,

26:15

they all have the win expectancy of a

26:18

48 win team. Important to

26:20

note that all of them are, there

26:22

are players who are excluded from this who

26:24

are contributing to their teams, Kyrie Irving, Fred

26:27

Van Vliet among them, but the Rockets, they

26:29

have a differential of a 48 win team. They're

26:31

underperforming their points differential by the most in the NBA

26:33

right now. And sometimes on those extremes, that means there's

26:35

a little bit in there. We we've talked about this

26:37

for years with the jazz and everything else, but

26:40

the idea that they could potentially get there and

26:42

you do lose the offensive organization for them, but

26:44

like, I mean, Shanguin is, is their best player

26:46

to me. And like, you have that and you

26:48

have all these other players. And then for the

26:50

magic, it's the defensive foundation, which is wholly included

26:53

within this, and they're still figuring out the offense,

26:55

but they would have, we're not giving them like

26:57

the draft picks that they have in real life,

26:59

but they would, you, a normal team would have

27:01

resources to build around those guys. And, and for

27:03

those who want this argument, yeah, the PEL, the

27:06

PELs have the differential of a 53 win team,

27:08

but they have a lot of guys that aren't

27:10

included in this. Sure. And the magic are the

27:12

most intriguing because also like more of their guys

27:14

are younger too, Paula 21, Franz 22, Suggs 22,

27:16

even Wendell is only 24. And

27:21

he's an interesting piece too, in terms of like

27:23

the fit around him, which you kind of like,

27:25

they're kind of like the opposite of the Cavs

27:28

in that respect. They have a center is a

27:30

little more malleable. Whereas the Cavs have two who kind

27:32

of aren't going back to that question

27:34

that I had though, you know, let's say you take

27:36

the maps, right? The maps without Kyrie, I mean, even

27:38

with Kyrie, they're going to be like high 40s this

27:41

year, though Kyrie didn't play the whole season, but that's

27:43

kind of to be expected, but

27:45

we've kind of seen where the Luca

27:47

plus guys group that is like consistently

27:49

has kind of been a high 40s,

27:52

you know, Luca can get better. And

27:54

there's also concern maybe that he, his

27:56

contractual situation might start to be a little

27:58

bit of an issue. But it's basically Luca

28:01

and you know Derek Lively is Derek Lively

28:03

gonna be like an all defense level center

28:05

No, I don't think that that's the case

28:07

You could get there But I'm not like

28:09

counting on that and then you have another

28:11

center and like, you know some kind of

28:13

like low-end Like starter backup site and you

28:15

don't really have much on the wing unless

28:17

we're counting Luca there Which is positional definition

28:19

and you don't really have any other supplemental

28:21

creators I mean Jaden Hardy's fine But you

28:23

don't have the the other kind of guys

28:25

you can lean in you also the weirdest

28:27

thing that you don't have with the Maths

28:30

other than arguably PJ Washington Reliable three-point

28:32

shooting and that's something that is so

28:34

valuable around Luca and you think about

28:36

some of the players And if you're

28:38

gonna find that with like kind of

28:40

the limited resources that we're projecting these

28:42

teams to have Then that guy's probably

28:44

not gonna be able to play any defense. It's probably gonna be

28:47

Tim Hardaway jr Yeah, and and

28:49

you can get with Luca You can

28:51

get more out of the Derek Jones

28:53

juniors and Dante exims of the world

28:55

and there is value in that There

28:58

also is a finite amount of value

29:00

in that and another consideration is those players

29:02

that you find are almost always Short-term, this

29:04

is something that I didn't bring up when

29:07

we're talking about the Clippers We're

29:09

talking about the Clippers issues is that even if

29:11

a player works You're basically have

29:13

them for one or two years because they're

29:15

not gonna sign a four-year minimum contract unless

29:17

you identify them like the Pels did with

29:19

Alvarado. Yeah, so I think I think

29:22

the gris the more I think about it

29:24

Kind of got to be a clear number

29:26

two and they're my number two as well

29:28

in their own tier Um, I mean

29:30

they've got three like near all stars Like none

29:32

of them are probably top ten players in the

29:35

NBA But if you really look at it, we've

29:37

seen the proof of concept for them before it's

29:39

been a rough year for them Sure, and like

29:41

that variance does bother me It really would be

29:43

such a shame if like, you know That 22

29:46

season ended up being the best season they ever

29:48

had and then who did you

29:50

then we haven't talked about the Pacers

29:52

yet At all, you know with Tyreese

29:54

Aaron Neesmith Ben Mathroom Andrew Nemhart. There's

29:56

Walker Jaylen Smith That's probably about where

29:59

Peter's out in terms of guys that I care

30:01

about. You know, I think

30:03

there's an argument that maybe that core grows

30:05

into, I think what they're really missing is

30:07

just like the center though. Yeah, they're missing

30:09

defense at all, really. Well,

30:11

Neesmith and Nemard at the two, and Walker, if

30:14

he develops at the two, three, four, is actually

30:16

like, that's pretty good, I think. Oh, and Jalen

30:18

Smith is more of a backup center, but he's

30:20

a capable backup center. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe

30:23

I'm, yeah, I have them

30:25

in the tier below, but maybe I'm giving them

30:27

short shrift. I'm gonna keep on considering that. And

30:30

then Wolves, we haven't talked really about them either. I

30:32

mean, Anthony Edwards at 22, Jayden McDaniels

30:35

at 23. I mean, that is a very

30:37

malleable couple of guys to build around along

30:39

the lines what you were talking about with

30:41

the Rockets, where it's both guys who can

30:43

defend, both guys who can shoot, you know,

30:46

at least somewhat in the case of McDaniels.

30:48

And obviously Edwards is a primary creator, but

30:50

also someone who at least the end of

30:52

games can guard, you know, one through four

30:55

some of the best guys. If that's a powerful

30:57

starting point, I would say. And then you got

31:00

Alexander Walker, Nas Reed and nothing really after

31:02

that. By the way, my not Leonard Miller

31:04

and Wendell Moore not really figuring at all

31:06

this year is, it's

31:08

understandable considering how successful the Wolves are, but

31:11

you imagine how much of any of those

31:13

guys was contributing to their success, how much

31:15

better we would feel about that part of

31:18

this equation. But Ant's amazing. Like, but for

31:20

me, so McDaniels

31:22

is a very good player, Ant is awesome. And

31:24

I mean, we talked about him a lot in

31:27

top prospects. I still wonder, you know,

31:29

had him in tier two of the

31:31

shooting guards, his arc, like what

31:33

he is at age 25, he's 22 now, at

31:37

is he the best player in a

31:39

playoff series? Is he the best player

31:42

in a playoff series? This year, entirely

31:44

possible. But you've brought up before how

31:46

the pathway for him exists, but it's

31:48

a big threshold. And

31:51

the two guards, the physically dominant two guards,

31:53

like, yeah, most of them aren't Michael Jordan, only

31:55

one of them is. But there are other

31:57

guys that could do it. So yeah, I have

31:59

them. at the top of the tier below, them

32:02

and the Pacers, but I see a

32:04

very reasonable argument to have them higher,

32:07

especially because both of them have more

32:09

depth collectively, even if they're not essential,

32:11

than a team like the Celtics around

32:13

Jason Tatum. Yeah, and if we're for

32:15

the Mavs or the Celtics, right? If

32:17

we're talking about, maybe not even so

32:19

much with Tatum, but certainly with Luca,

32:21

you might make the argument

32:24

that the Mavs are more likely to

32:26

win a championship than because they have

32:28

Luca in the next five years, than

32:30

any of these other teams that we've been talking

32:32

about, just because he's so much better of a

32:35

player, right? But that's kind of

32:37

not what this exercise is. This exercise is

32:39

like, what is your young core, this group

32:41

that's growing together? Like the Mavs are probably

32:43

gonna still have to kind of pull another

32:45

player out of their ass to really be

32:47

a championship contender somehow. And like that's, we're

32:49

dealing more in actualities of what you actually

32:52

have on the team and how I'm trying

32:54

to project that going forward. And by the

32:56

way, them putting Derek Lively and Omax Prosper,

32:58

who hasn't figured much this year onto

33:00

this list from last year's team, that's a

33:02

pretty good accomplishment. You know, like they actually

33:04

added some talent with- Oh, and adding Gafford

33:06

in PGA Washington, like Gafford's been good for

33:08

them, Washington maybe a little less so. They'll

33:10

both age out this year, but they're of

33:12

course still eligible and still considered. Yeah, so

33:14

I think I might have to make the

33:17

magic number, am I making the magic number

33:19

three? I have the magic number four, and

33:22

the team that is number three- And your three

33:24

was Cleveland's? No, my three is San Antonio. Whoa!

33:29

I can't put more than two teams

33:31

pass Victor. Like the- Well, but like

33:35

when they're good, the odds are that I

33:37

think Wemenyama and Vassal are gonna be the

33:39

only guys who are here now who- I

33:42

don't care. I don't care. I

33:44

don't care. He said like, I

33:46

mean, and the other thing about the Spurs

33:48

is they have other options. Like even if

33:50

you and I aren't high on the like

33:52

star equity of Trey Jones or Keldin or

33:54

Jeremy Sohan, they still have guys. And like,

33:56

I wouldn't be surprised if they got a

33:58

couple of rotation players. even a

34:00

couple of starters out of that. But I've

34:02

already brought up the idea that I don't

34:05

think Kelvin or Sohan is going to be

34:07

a starter on the next great Spurs team.

34:09

But Victor Wepanyama has that kind of talent.

34:11

And I love like it. I mean, picking

34:14

between Wepanyama and Luca feels like picking between

34:16

children in the sense that they're Well, yeah,

34:18

I was going to ask you, Doncic is

34:20

24. So he I think he was number

34:23

one on our top prospects list all five

34:25

years he was eligible. I believe so. Would

34:27

he if he were still eligible right now,

34:29

like if you could just take 23

34:31

year old Luca from last year and

34:34

keep him on the list, would he

34:36

have been higher than Wepanyama to you?

34:38

I don't think so. Because there Luca,

34:40

Luca bends, he bends the offensive world

34:43

towards him. I mean, he's been the

34:45

best player in a conference finals team,

34:48

Victor Wepanyama bends the game potentially in

34:50

a way that Luca doesn't like Luca.

34:52

It's sort of like the Kevin Durant

34:54

optimization argument versus the I don't know

34:56

who the other kind of maybe the

34:58

Steph Curry weaponization argument where it's like

35:01

Kevin Durant optimizes the game, Stephen Curry makes

35:03

a new game. I think that might be

35:05

the parallel here. I would have Luca higher

35:07

both because I mean, it just

35:10

made it through more time. Just less of an

35:13

injury risk, I would say like doesn't

35:15

really play like an injury grading style,

35:18

or I think Victor maybe does a

35:20

little bit. And it just again,

35:22

like Victor might just be so crazy that I

35:24

could be running it right Victor probably has the

35:26

higher upside. But I mean, I think Luca also

35:29

like he is he's just an unbelievable offensive

35:31

force. And my only concern about him is kind

35:33

of the defense and the ball dominant style and

35:35

that sort of thing. But it's just I still

35:37

think I would I would have to have Luca

35:39

ahead, but probably have them in the same tier

35:42

would have been my they would definitely be in

35:44

the same tier for me. And it would it

35:46

would have been a special

35:48

kind of crisis to think about

35:50

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it all live with Sling. Do

38:28

you give them any credit at all

38:30

for the guys below the South this

38:32

first? Marginal. I don't consider them too

38:34

much. It's

38:36

nice to have options and maybe a

38:39

Malchibrand or a Trey Jones works out

38:41

better than I expect. But the other

38:43

big reason why those guys get demerits

38:45

collectively is that there isn't anybody that

38:47

I believe has high starter upside. Like

38:49

the idea of being one of the

38:51

20 best players that they're positioned. Outside

38:54

of that, it's nice to have those players

38:56

but they aren't essential. That's a

38:58

part of why I really like the rest of the

39:01

Rockets a lot more. There is

39:03

a pathway for a men to be a top

39:05

20 starter. There's a pathway for Kim Whitmore. For

39:07

Jaylen Green. And maybe even Tari. I

39:09

still love Tari Isean. For

39:11

them, they have that. But Victor versus Shanguin

39:13

is a clear enough fight for me that the Spurs

39:15

are over the Rockets albeit in the same tier. Yeah,

39:18

I mean as I think about it. I

39:20

think Jeremy Sohan could be a star in the

39:22

top 20 in his position. If he'd just shown

39:24

a little bit more defensively so

39:26

far to really be like somewhat of the

39:29

potential of it be a difference maker on

39:31

that end. I think he's kind of more

39:33

of a guy who just moves his feet

39:35

and stays in front of guys. He doesn't

39:37

really create much havoc. And maybe he becomes

39:39

a good enough shooter that he can be

39:41

playable offensively. And we're not just

39:43

cursing that they're taking away all the advantages of

39:45

playing Victor at center by just playing Sohan next

39:48

to him. So yeah, I

39:50

mean I think you could possibly get there if

39:52

you learned how to shoot. But yeah, I think

39:54

the chances of him being a quality shooter are

39:56

less than... There is one more team that

39:58

I have in these two colitis. I

40:01

call them the rest of the best and the best of

40:03

the rest that we have not discussed at all yet And

40:05

I think they're worthy I I think

40:07

I may be too low on them and that's why I wanted to

40:10

bring them up and that is the Charlotte Hornets the

40:12

you know, I I Struggled

40:14

with them to the Raptors was another one

40:16

too. Actually I mean that that's interesting question

40:18

of whether you like the Hornets or the

40:20

Raptors talent better Yeah, I actually I actually

40:22

have not yet There are three teams towards

40:24

there are three teams in this that I

40:26

haven't actually put into tears yet because I

40:28

wanted to talk Through them with you. The

40:30

Raptors are one of those three. Well, so

40:33

are you are the Hornets? The Hornets aren't

40:35

in serious consideration for like number four No,

40:37

and that's why they're there and that's why they're

40:40

in my fourth tier It's because let's

40:42

try to work through the rest of this year. I want

40:44

to try to put these in order So I've got the

40:46

magic at number three I just can't go there with this

40:48

first because it's like it's what it's two guys and

40:51

one of them is like a Starter,

40:53

you know if if you had if I thought

40:55

Devon Vassal is gonna be an all-star or like,

40:57

you know Someone that at the top ten of

40:59

his position, which basically is an all-star when you're

41:01

talking about a small forward Then

41:04

I think I could bring the Spurs up there But

41:06

I still think of it kind of more of an

41:08

ensemble cast now Of course the Spurs have plenty

41:10

of assets and stuff. These guys are all pretty

41:12

young Yeah Which by the way

41:14

those those don't count at all like the the

41:17

idea of what's gonna happen from this point with

41:19

Non-players that are eligible in the list doesn't factor

41:21

in at all I think you're like Victor Wambaniyama,

41:23

Devon Vassal and some like blah veteran starters Like

41:25

that's not that good of a team you can

41:27

really have a lot of it Like that, I

41:30

mean Victor is gonna be good Certainly, like I

41:32

don't think he's gonna be like just throw it

41:34

to him every time on often No,

41:36

but I think they did not have that

41:38

guy I think that Wambaniyama is going to be

41:40

at least the top ten probably a top five

41:43

defense unto himself without too much time Yeah, no,

41:45

I think that's fair and and that's funny cuz

41:47

that's the selling point of differently No magic is

41:49

like oh, they have this really good defense. So

41:51

like yeah The

41:53

Spurs are probably gonna get there with mostly one

41:56

dude. Yeah, but even then you're not I don't

41:58

think gonna get to be a

42:00

team that's threatening for home court advantage in your

42:02

conference unless you get like another a number one

42:04

offensive option to pair with one beyond the cell

42:07

and that like that's just such a hard ask.

42:09

I mean, but I think like missing this, I

42:11

brought up this number before the magic the 20th

42:13

best offensive player in the league with the Spurs

42:16

like filling out the roster competently, I think that

42:18

can get them close enough. I mean, okay, this

42:20

is a great point here. Like, I mean, this

42:22

is maybe a little too far field. But David

42:25

Locke talked about this news like, Hey, who should

42:27

the jazz trade for? Should they bother to trade

42:29

for free? Hey, should the Spurs bother to

42:31

trade for trade? I'm just gonna top of

42:34

your conversation. But like, just acquiring a top

42:36

20 offensive player in the league, like you

42:38

can't just snap your fingers and do that

42:40

for sure. For sure. It's one

42:42

of the hardest things to do. And I brought up the

42:44

positional scarcity of the wing. Well, the skill scarcity of those

42:46

20 best offensive players is even

42:48

harder. Yeah. Now, if you throw it and

42:51

you get like two Anthony Simons or something,

42:53

you know, are you there then? Maybe, you

42:55

know, you kind of you use Victor's defense

42:57

to make up for the fact that you

42:59

have to have like a couple of small guards

43:01

playing next to her. You know, you might be

43:03

able to do that. But yeah, it's just it's

43:05

a little bit too sparse. Particularly, I think you're

43:07

probably also higher sell than me. But

43:09

yeah, I mean, it is an interesting

43:12

question. Like, okay, if you're gonna say

43:14

when been Yama and Vosel versus Edwards

43:16

and McDaniels, who do you like better?

43:18

You probably got to say when been

43:20

Yama. Right? I do. Yes. Yeah. And

43:22

when been Yama and Vosel versus Halliburton

43:25

and whoever you want to say is the

43:27

second best Pacers guy probably got to like

43:30

when been Yama and the same thing with

43:32

Tatum and Jordan, but Xavier Tillman Jordan Walsh

43:34

is probably their second best prospect right now.

43:36

You know, I do think maybe, you know,

43:39

Luca and one of the centers, I might

43:41

like that better than when be I'm in

43:43

the cell. That's like a very close thing.

43:45

But that was probably, you know, better prospect

43:48

than Derek level. Yeah. So I mean, as

43:50

you really, but although the maps do then

43:52

have some depth, I like a little bit

43:54

more than this for they're probably about the

43:57

same. So yeah, maybe I do, you know,

44:00

As I really talk through it, I probably do have

44:02

to just move this burs up a bit, particularly because

44:04

I have some of these outs. Can

44:07

I go put them above

44:09

Cleveland with like three,

44:12

maybe lower level All-Star players? That's

44:14

a little tough. Probably

44:17

you have to put them above New Orleans. Yeah,

44:19

somehow I've managed to disagree with you

44:21

and come to the exact same conclusion

44:23

as you anyway. That's a great- There's

44:28

a joke to be made there and I'm choosing not

44:30

to make it. Yeah,

44:33

so just- I do have to follow the

44:35

magic though. I'm going to go with- Yeah,

44:37

that's fine. So my tier three is Spurs,

44:39

Magic, Cavs, Rockets, and the Dallas Mavericks. All

44:41

right, so you moved Cleveland down from your

44:43

initial- Yes, I moved- Initial conception. Yeah, in

44:46

part because of the duplication of their players

44:48

and in part because of the lack of-

44:50

I mean, I like Isaac Okoro, but I

44:52

don't love Isaac Okoro. The lack of other

44:54

pathways for them. That is a- Yeah,

44:57

and this is when we did this a

44:59

couple years ago, I think everyone thought Evan

45:01

Mobley was going to shoot it well

45:03

enough to really play power forward offensively

45:06

and that has necessarily- And it's striking

45:08

to me that you and I have

45:10

them in a similar place when in

45:12

positional rankings we have very different opinions

45:14

on where Evan Mobley fits in within

45:16

this position. But that's okay. I think

45:18

we have a general agreement more on

45:20

his player quality and everything else. Let's

45:22

make a couple more adjustments here. Where

45:24

did you have Houston in the end?

45:26

I have them in this tier. I

45:28

have them technically if you care about

45:30

order between the Cavs and the Mavs,

45:32

which would be sixth. Yeah,

45:35

so I think I've got Magic 3, Spurs 4. You

45:38

like the Rockets better than the Pels? Oh,

45:40

I do. I have the Pels in a

45:43

separate tier. Yeah, I mean Zion to me

45:45

is probably still better than Shungun. And her,

45:47

Joseph Tre Murphy are pretty good players. Like

45:49

that's, I might like them better than anybody

45:52

below Shungun. But Zion's a hard guy to

45:54

sit around. He's a really like to build

45:56

a team. We've

45:58

run into- What about Shungun though? Is

46:00

he really that much easier to fit around? I guess he

46:02

is. And he's a 5 and

46:04

he can actually defend his position. So you

46:07

don't have to do all these other

46:09

hoops where you have Zion who is

46:12

great at what he does, but you

46:14

need spacing around him, you need a

46:16

defensive core around him. And also, Zion

46:18

has these genuine concerns in terms of

46:20

availability, in terms of motor and fit.

46:22

Yeah, and you know what? I probably

46:24

should put Jabari above Herb and Trey

46:27

Murphy too. Just because his ability

46:29

to play small ball center, his shooting

46:31

ability... Yeah, Jabari Smith, who

46:33

would be a really fun fit on the

46:35

Pelicans, but they didn't

46:37

have that kind of pick. Yeah, I

46:39

think you're right. Okay, I think I'm

46:42

here now. Five rockets, six

46:45

cavaliers, seven mavs, eight wolves, nine

46:47

paces, ten pels, eleven Celtics. So

46:49

let's get into Charlotte and Toronto

46:52

here. Maybe I even could see

46:54

getting one of those guys up

46:56

there. Who do you think

46:59

is better, Charlotte or Toronto, in terms of their

47:01

young core? You like Charlotte? I do

47:03

like Charlotte more, but

47:05

it is a close call. I'd be full

47:07

of credit to Scotty Barnes for the growth

47:09

that he has done. And a lot of

47:11

the current Raptors team is included within this.

47:13

Barnes, Quickly, RJ Barrett, Gary Trent Jr.

47:15

to the extent that he's a part of

47:18

this, Grady Dick. So they have guys, they

47:20

earn this. But Lamello is an intriguing offensive

47:22

player, even if he's basically had two off-hears.

47:24

And I think the player who gives it

47:26

to me, I'm not saying he's definitively like

47:29

a better young player than Scotty Barnes, is

47:31

Brendan Miller, not only because of

47:34

what he does well, but how

47:37

his game could adapt to fit in a

47:39

variety of different situations. So like Miller, he's

47:43

one of the rare guys his size who can

47:45

dribble, pass, and shoot. And even though Barnes is

47:47

significantly better than him as

47:50

a defensive player right now, and

47:52

probably will be. Miller's ability to

47:54

do some stuff on ball, but

47:57

also be more to be dangerous

47:59

off-ball. That is such a

48:01

it's a useful skill for anybody But it's

48:03

a really useful skill for like a 610

48:06

dude Barnes to me is the best prospect

48:08

on a either of these teams Do you

48:10

agree with that or no? I there's definitely

48:12

I I don't think I

48:14

would have him over Miller

48:16

on the idea of so I think that

48:18

the EV for Barnes might be higher than

48:21

Miller But the 80th 90th percentile outcomes for

48:23

me with Miller or better and I care

48:25

a little bit more about those I

48:27

I look I really like study Barnes, but I don't think

48:29

he's an on ball star I think he's a he's

48:32

a like a a complimentary star sub star

48:34

You know you know what I mean like

48:36

that that kind of player where I don't

48:38

think he's gonna be the best player on

48:40

a on A team that wins multiple playoff

48:42

series, but he could be like a really

48:44

strong number two. Does that make sense? It

48:46

does Yeah, and I think the reason I

48:48

probably would have the Raptors a little bit

48:50

above is Brandon Miller

48:53

is already 21. So he's a little older

48:55

than your typical guy. He's drafted after one

48:57

year of college I do worry still about

48:59

him being thin not that athletic like I

49:02

do think the shootings gonna work out I

49:04

think he'll be solid defensive I don't think

49:06

he's going to be a Paul George level

49:08

player because he just doesn't have that little

49:10

athleticism So if you can you

49:12

think of kind of imagine a Paul George

49:14

who you know Just couldn't jump and wasn't

49:16

as strong like that's maybe where he ends

49:19

up So maybe that's a lower end all-star

49:21

like a couple of makes a couple of

49:23

all-star teams They're still pretty good player and

49:25

as you noted someone who fits in really

49:27

well among other players Although I don't like

49:30

I'm not sure how well he could switch

49:32

against some power guys necessarily He may end up

49:34

being a two But also like having him as

49:36

a two could be powerful because he can shoot

49:38

well enough for that position at being six nine

49:40

Like that would actually if you could then find

49:42

a three and a four to play next to

49:44

him That would actually be really interesting and if

49:47

Miller's your second or third best perimeter defender You're

49:49

okay. Like I don't think you're gonna get demolished

49:51

there He's like a much better version of like

49:53

I used to make this argument about Cam Johnson

49:55

Except Cam Johnson's bad on defensive Brandon Miller is

49:57

at least fine could be better than fine agree

50:00

with your assessment of Barnes, I think

50:02

that he just is significantly better than

50:04

either Lamello or Miller as a prospect.

50:07

And now if you want to say

50:09

like Barnes and quickly versus Lamello and

50:11

Miller, maybe you could say Lamello

50:13

and Miller have a little higher upside there. I

50:16

mean Barnes and quickly are guys who've like established

50:18

themselves with starter level of play on decent teams

50:20

to me even though quickly hasn't started, but you

50:22

know, I think he's played on a team and

50:24

been good. You can't say that about ball. You

50:27

can't say that about Miller, though Miller's game is

50:29

kind of more conducive to being on a real

50:31

team. And then Mark Williams versus RJ Barrett. Like

50:33

I probably like RJ Barrett a little bit more.

50:35

Miles Bridges, we've talked about how maybe you discount

50:37

him a little bit because it's about to be

50:40

a free agent. Although the Hornets have full bird

50:42

rights on him. Sure. And then,

50:44

you know, they got a few other guys like Grant Williams. Nick

50:46

Smith Jr. is someone who could be possibly

50:48

a little interesting, you know, Trent, I kind

50:50

of discount in the same fashion. I think

50:52

he's maybe less likely to be back even

50:54

the Bridges, but Dick is a pretty interesting

50:56

guy to me. I think he could be

50:58

a starting shooting guard. So I

51:01

think I'm going to get border can give

51:03

you some interesting, interesting prop bets. Yeah. You

51:06

can attempt him by whether the wraps or

51:08

Hornets will win more games the next five

51:10

years. The

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sweet sound of sports you love from

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52:11

the two teams that I haven't placed yet who I think

52:13

are either going to be this tier or the tier below

52:15

that we haven't discussed yet are the toughest

52:17

for me to square. And those are the Pistons

52:19

and the Blazers. So both

52:22

of them are volume plays,

52:24

but they're volume plays that

52:26

have enough intrigue, but also

52:28

not enough superstar intrigue where I'm

52:30

just like, eh, you know, kind of

52:32

getting into that space. So we'll run through the players a little bit. So

52:35

for the Pistons, Kate Cunningham is

52:38

that liner. But then you also have

52:40

Jalen Duran, Isaiah Stewart, Asar Thompson, Jay

52:42

Naive, Quentin Grimes, Marcus Sasser. That's probably

52:44

the core group there. And

52:46

so you have a potential lead creator, even though

52:49

Kate hasn't been perfect to that, but we both

52:51

believe in his talent. You have a center, even

52:53

if he's not a defensive foundation. And

52:56

then you have enough talented players who not

52:58

only have starter upside, but like, you know,

53:00

could even be have a little bit more

53:02

juice beyond that. And one thing

53:04

that's fun about the Pistons is they don't

53:06

have enough net shooting, of course, but they

53:08

have like people who you could classify as

53:11

viable at every position, which is kind of

53:13

fun. Like that makes it a little bit

53:15

different for them than like, let's say the

53:17

Pelicans where they have no five. Yeah, I

53:19

put the Pistons and Blazers kind of in

53:22

their own group. I had one team that

53:24

I for sure have higher than the Pistons.

53:26

And that's the Atlanta Hawks with Trey Young

53:28

still eligible for this. And

53:31

the likelihood is that Trey Young is just

53:33

better than anyone on either the Pistons

53:35

or the Blazers. Kate has to me the

53:37

best chance. Yeah, like the Trey Young-Scoot Henderson

53:39

conversation, like Scoot Henderson is still a prospect

53:41

that excites me. But Trey Young is there

53:43

is a very good chance Scoot Henderson is

53:45

never as good as Trey Young has been. Yeah,

53:48

very, very good. Yeah. And the Blazers just, you

53:50

know, Simon's still 24. That's nice. But I don't

53:52

see him as having a ton of upside to

53:54

explore. And De'Andre Eaton is like a

53:57

low end starting center at this point. really

54:00

exciting but he's just his development

54:02

is stagnated he's really an experience. So well

54:04

these teams have really interesting guys and I

54:06

do think that some of them can hit

54:08

eventually. I would say between Scoot and Sharp

54:11

I like them better than anyone on the

54:13

both those guys better than anyone on the

54:15

Pistons except for Cade. But Cade is really

54:17

the one guy that I think has actually

54:19

like established himself as a solid player who

54:22

actually helps you win to the extent that

54:24

the Pistons have in them. Duran, Isaiah Stewart,

54:26

Asar Thompson, Jay Nivey, I mean those are

54:28

all guys that are Duran I think will

54:30

be a starting center but we know how

54:33

easy that is to find when you're talking

54:35

about a guy who doesn't shoot the ball

54:37

and I don't see Duran as being elite

54:39

defensively. I think even though he's in his

54:41

second year I think he by this point

54:44

would have showed enough and he really just

54:46

says not to me defensively and Thompson and

54:48

Ivy like just because some of the flaws

54:50

in their games they profile as kind of

54:52

more like low end starter high end backup

54:55

types and Grimes another guy who I think

54:57

could be a starter but they're just there's

54:59

nothing really like that sexy there beyond Cade

55:01

and Cade is like not that sexy of a

55:03

number one. So I had

55:05

the Hawks above them because they got Jaylen

55:07

Johnson also a kongwooz a decent starting center

55:09

and it's basically it's basically those three guys

55:12

right now. I mean you'd love for

55:14

Kobe, Kobe Buffkin or AJ Griffin to have shown

55:16

something this year and if they had maybe they'd

55:18

be higher but probably not much. How did you

55:20

what did you do with the

55:22

Utah Jazz? They have basically four guys who

55:24

matter Kiansei, George Walker, Kessler, Collin Sucks and

55:26

Taylor Hendricks and then maybe you could throw

55:29

a Bryce Sensavai in there as a

55:31

flyer. How do you square them

55:33

vis-a-vis the Pistons or the Blazers?

55:35

I have them in

55:37

a lower tier. It's a group that I

55:39

called Starters but No Stars and the idea

55:41

behind it is some of these teams actually

55:44

have really interesting depth and the Jazz have

55:46

part of that theory that I've discussed where

55:48

it's like they could have an offensive and

55:50

defensive foundation with Kiansei, George, Collin Sexton and

55:52

then Kessler and potentially Hendricks on the defense.

55:54

Can you think of what that like if

55:57

it works out what that Taylor Hendricks at

55:59

the four and Walker Kessler at the five

56:01

could be defensively. Real fun. Really, really fun.

56:03

And I mean, I was big on Taylor

56:05

Hendricks in the draft and we haven't gotten

56:07

to see a full the full dose of

56:10

him so far. But

56:12

I kind of had them higher here.

56:14

I think that's not. But is that

56:16

like the defensive foundation is exciting, but

56:18

the offensive foundation is not like I

56:20

like the E. George, and I'm encouraged

56:22

by what he has done relative to

56:24

his draft position. But we brought

56:27

up the like top 20 offensive player threshold.

56:29

If I had to guess right now, I

56:31

wouldn't expect him to do that. And he's 20.

56:33

Plenty of time for that to change. But

56:35

some people might say, though, can't they George is

56:37

basically the same age as Scoot Henderson has been

56:40

better than him this year. What he has, but

56:42

your response to that, good Henderson has better physical

56:44

tools. I mean, Scoot is a Scoot

56:46

can, Scoot can put that together. And also,

56:48

Chionte George is, in my opinion, being coached

56:50

in a better system by a better coach,

56:53

which can lead to some of these circumstances,

56:55

and is surrounded by an overall

56:57

situation and overall talent

57:00

that is more conducive to his success. And I

57:02

mean, also, I brought this up in the 1560.

57:04

Chionte George's best stretch was when he came off

57:06

the bench and when he played against backups, which

57:08

is something that Scoot Henderson has done. But like

57:11

you think about Chionte George, he doesn't get to

57:13

play with Lowry Markin and all the time, but

57:15

he has Markin and Kessler and Will Hardy as

57:17

the coach and the Blazers have been a shit

57:20

show the entire year, both deliberately and non deliberately.

57:22

And point guard, I think

57:24

back a lot to De'Aaron Fox's first year

57:26

in SAC, there are times

57:28

where it is very hard to

57:31

separate, especially because the stats

57:33

are always so bad to separate

57:35

out the flashes from the

57:37

situation. Yeah, so I would

57:39

have I'd Raptors 12 Hornets

57:41

13 Hawks 14. That's, that's

57:43

a tier and then I

57:45

got Pistons, Blazers, Jazz 15 through

57:47

17. And then I got

57:50

into a group that was kind of more

57:52

veteran teams that are pretty good, but aren't

57:54

like bereft of players. Bereft, bereft, what the

57:56

fuck's wrong? Bereft. Jesus, I said it correctly.

57:59

30 minutes. So

58:01

that was the Sixers, Warriors,

58:03

Heat, and Kings in the

58:05

18 to 21 group. Let's

58:08

see. Yeah, so I have a

58:10

little bit of a bigger tier, but I'm just

58:12

gonna see where we disagree a little bit. I

58:16

had trouble placing... Okay, so like we

58:18

should talk about... The Kings

58:20

for me, I have them right in this group. So where

58:22

I settled on is I have the Blazers not in that

58:24

tier with the Pistons. I have them below, but kind of

58:26

at the top of this group that also includes the Kings,

58:29

the Jazz, and others. And for

58:31

Sacramento, they don't have the

58:33

offensive engine because De'Aaron Fox is unavailable

58:35

and ineligible, and so is

58:37

De'Baunus De'Baunus. But I think you can

58:40

build a pretty good team around a

58:42

group of Keegan Murray, Malik Monk, Kevin

58:44

Herder, Keyon Ellis, and others. Like you

58:46

have some wings, you have

58:49

some creation, you have some shooting, and

58:51

it is true that you're missing the

58:53

best offensive player, not

58:55

only from their current team, but from a

58:57

good team. But they have some stuff that

59:00

I think is useful. I maybe should move

59:02

them down a little bit though. Yeah,

59:04

my thinking on this group is none

59:06

of these teams have a young core

59:08

by our traditional definition. We're like, oh

59:11

man, these guys grow together and they're

59:13

gonna be the backbone of a winning

59:15

team. I don't think any of those

59:17

teams that I just mentioned have that,

59:20

but they do have enough young players

59:22

to be interesting and help you win

59:24

if you have some veterans. Whereas I

59:26

think that's how I differentiated from this

59:29

next group where they have teams that

59:31

have kind of multiple starter level

59:33

players or guys that we expect

59:35

to be pretty good going forward.

59:37

Or even in the case of

59:39

Maxia and All-Star, the Sixers are

59:41

not, you know, they basically, it's

59:44

Maxi, Melton, Paul Reed. That's basically

59:46

it in terms of rotation guys.

59:48

Warriors have Kaminga, Pajemski, Trace Jackson-Dasus,

59:50

Moses Moody, Lester Kenyony, so actually

59:52

kind of like a little bit.

59:54

The Heat have Hakkaz, Tyler Herro,

59:57

Nikola Jovic, and then the Kings

59:59

have Azir. you mentioned Murray Malik,

1:00:01

Mon Carter, that's kind of basically about

1:00:03

it. I mean, I guess Alice is

1:00:05

a rotation guy. I mean,

1:00:07

the funniest in this kind of general conversation

1:00:09

is that the Knicks give you one hell

1:00:11

of a setter rotation, but they don't really

1:00:14

give you a whole lot else because Hartenstein

1:00:16

and Mr. Robinson are both eligible. So is

1:00:18

Precious Chua and all they have and Jericho

1:00:20

Sims, but all they have outside of that

1:00:22

is Moth McBride and McBride is having a

1:00:24

nice year, but he's a complimentary guard and

1:00:27

that's really what his role is. So for

1:00:29

the Knicks, like you get, honestly, it's

1:00:31

one of the best center rotations on this

1:00:33

entire list, but it is primarily just that.

1:00:35

And I mean, we've seen Precious play some

1:00:37

of the four as well. Another

1:00:40

team that I have in this general vicinity,

1:00:42

though, So you had the Knicks in the

1:00:44

same group as like those four teams I

1:00:46

just said, I think I'm going to split

1:00:48

out the tiers actually. I thought this was

1:00:50

a pretty clear delineation

1:00:53

to teams that are just like, okay, maybe

1:00:55

they have like one guy that you have

1:00:58

two guys or something, but are not not

1:01:00

winning right now. Yeah. So maybe I think,

1:01:02

I think where I'm debating whether the line

1:01:04

is the, the line is

1:01:06

the jazz. So basically Portland, Sacramento and Utah to

1:01:08

me are definitely in this group. And

1:01:11

I think probably the Sixers and the Warriors

1:01:13

are as well. I think that's probably about where I'm

1:01:15

going to draw the line. I'm lower

1:01:17

on, even though you said Berlin, I'm lower

1:01:19

on Jaime Jakes generally than you are. And

1:01:22

the hero's also included within this. I mean,

1:01:24

he's a flawed player, but he is a,

1:01:26

he can be a talented offensive, offensive player

1:01:28

in this group. And the

1:01:30

other challenge for Miami is like, they, you

1:01:32

don't have, you don't have any semblance of

1:01:35

a defensive foundation with them. You have some

1:01:37

guys that can play if you can put

1:01:39

all that around them. And Jovic is potentially

1:01:41

a fun kind of swing guy

1:01:43

in all this. But I don't, I don't

1:01:45

think of the heat and like the same

1:01:47

conversation with the Warriors. Cause I just don't

1:01:49

have, I think Kaminga is

1:01:51

a meaningfully better player than either Hakes

1:01:53

or hero, even if he's imperfect too.

1:02:00

to 30. So that is

1:02:02

in rough order. Nets, Bulls,

1:02:04

Lakers, Nuggets, Wizards, Knicks. I

1:02:06

won't even bother saying who

1:02:08

the bottom tier is. Which

1:02:11

of those teams, Nets, Bulls, Lakers,

1:02:13

Nuggets, Wizards, Knicks, has the best

1:02:15

prospect to you? So I'll throw

1:02:17

some names out there for you.

1:02:19

Sure. Unless you got them in

1:02:21

mind. Nets would probably be Nick

1:02:23

Clackston and Cam Thomas. Bulls is

1:02:25

Kobe White, I have to assume

1:02:28

Patrick Williams. Lakers is Austin Reeves

1:02:30

and Rehachi Murrah. Nuggets

1:02:32

is Mike Porter Jr. and Peyton Watson,

1:02:34

Christian Brown. Wizards is Kula Bali, Denny

1:02:36

Avdia, Jordan Poole, and the Knicks are

1:02:38

both centers you already talked about. I

1:02:40

think I like the Nuggets the best,

1:02:43

which is awkward because again, they don't

1:02:45

have a lead creator. They don't have

1:02:47

the, they don't have a defensive foundation,

1:02:49

though Peyton Watson can be a part

1:02:51

of a damn good defense. But I

1:02:53

like that they have two wing size

1:02:55

guys who have unusually big strengths. Like

1:02:57

that's something that you can, you can

1:02:59

work around. And I would say

1:03:01

the Bulls are probably my number two. You

1:03:03

can see that as being like Porter Jr.

1:03:06

and Watson like could be your starting four.

1:03:08

Like Watson couldn't fit into that Aaron Gordon

1:03:10

role. And then they have some other guys

1:03:12

that could fit into a rotation like Strather

1:03:14

and Zeke Najee. And then I would say

1:03:16

the Bulls are my number two. I really

1:03:18

like both White and Dassun Moo. I think

1:03:20

that they're, they're more like low end starters

1:03:22

than high end starters, but they are very

1:03:24

good basketball players who can fit alongside star

1:03:26

level talent. Well, like that's something one of

1:03:28

my favorite parts of Kobe White's development is

1:03:30

that you can put him next to a

1:03:33

ball dominant guy. We're seeing it to an extent with the

1:03:35

Bulls this year and he can hold his own. He can

1:03:37

be a complimentary offensive player. He can hold his own at

1:03:40

least enough defensively. And then I would assume

1:03:42

who I love a lot more defensively, but

1:03:44

he, you know, I'm less sure of the

1:03:46

offense. He's more of like a, hopefully he

1:03:49

can hit his threes and be in a

1:03:51

transition and, and spot up attacker kind of

1:03:53

guy. Yeah. I think that seems about right.

1:03:55

Yeah. I mean, Porter Jr. is probably still

1:03:57

the best player of any of these guys

1:03:59

that we talked about and Peyton Watson. and

1:04:01

might actually even be the best prospect with

1:04:03

his physical tools of anyone in this range.

1:04:05

I would say the Wiz 2 with Koolabale

1:04:07

and Avdia, the way Avdia has played, hope

1:04:10

that Jordan Poole won't be this

1:04:12

terrible going forward, but I'm not

1:04:15

counting on that. But I think Koolabale and

1:04:17

Avdia are at least a couple of wing

1:04:19

guys who could be interesting. Koolabale

1:04:22

in particular is particularly

1:04:24

raw, so I'm not even sure that

1:04:26

he's going to be anything at all,

1:04:28

but he's interesting enough. So I would go

1:04:31

Nugget 22, Bull 23, Wiz 24. Actually, no, I

1:04:36

think I'll move the Wiz up above the

1:04:39

Bulls just because I think, to me, Avdia

1:04:41

and Koolabale, I was pronouncing his name wrong,

1:04:43

have more upside than anyone on the Bulls

1:04:45

like you noted. Those are white and Dassou

1:04:47

Mu, or a couple of decent stars. Maybe

1:04:49

that could be Patrick Williams, Subday 2, but

1:04:51

I think that Koolabale and

1:04:53

Avdia are probably a better prospect. And they

1:04:55

have other guys who could be a part

1:04:57

of a successful team, Kispert, Jordan Poole, even

1:05:00

if he's been a disaster this year. Maybe

1:05:02

something could happen there. Yeah.

1:05:04

So then I got Nix 25, Nets 26, Lakers 27, and

1:05:06

then there's the 28 to 30 group that I said was

1:05:13

for us. Do you want to break in

1:05:16

here? I called them the absolute dregs. And

1:05:18

the way that I want to describe this,

1:05:20

so the three teams that are left are

1:05:22

the Suns, the Bucks, and the Clippers. Incidentally,

1:05:24

I didn't have this done when

1:05:26

I went on that riff on the 1560 about

1:05:28

this. Let's throw all three

1:05:30

of those teams together. Who

1:05:34

is the best young player? Or are

1:05:37

there any players on this that

1:05:39

you're actually excited about? It's

1:05:42

just so stark. The Lakers at 27, it's

1:05:44

like, yeah, I mean, Austin Reeves is a

1:05:46

good game. He's better

1:05:50

contract maybe right now than he is a player,

1:05:52

but he's a very good player and Vando is still

1:05:54

eligible and all that. And then you have these three

1:05:57

teams where it's like, I mean, Josh Okagi is probably

1:05:59

the best. I would say Josh

1:06:01

Coggi is the best player of the

1:06:03

eligible for these three teams. He also

1:06:05

might be the best prospect because I

1:06:07

think it's not likely, it's

1:06:09

likely that somebody from the Bucks and the

1:06:11

Clippers will like be relevant at some point,

1:06:13

but it is very, very possible

1:06:16

that no one on the Bucks or the

1:06:18

Clippers ever gets as good as Josh Coggi

1:06:20

is right now. Hey, AJ Green makes shots.

1:06:22

I mean, I would rather have Kobe

1:06:25

Brown than Josh Coggi. I'd probably rather

1:06:27

have BJ Boston than Josh Coggi. I'd

1:06:29

probably rather have Bulbul. In fact, I think

1:06:31

Frank Fogel is going to come to that conclusion

1:06:34

in the, I don't know how long Coggi is

1:06:36

out for, but I think he's going to come

1:06:38

to that soon. And yeah, I mean, the Bucks,

1:06:40

this is quite stark, right? I mean, just these

1:06:43

teams, the Clippers, and they like are supposed to

1:06:45

be one of the best organizations. I think that's

1:06:47

something that we should probably consider is just that

1:06:49

they've really, other than Terrence Mann, they really haven't

1:06:51

developed any one of note. I

1:06:54

mean, I guess they've even identified somebody

1:06:56

in like, like an early second or

1:06:58

something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah,

1:07:00

exactly. Right. Like, I mean, think of all

1:07:02

the guys that they, a Toru and

1:07:05

a fan of Kevin Gayle and

1:07:07

Jason Preston and BJ Boston as a brand

1:07:09

boss hasn't really become anything. And you know,

1:07:11

Kobe Brown, I think could do some interesting

1:07:14

stuff possibly to do skill studies. He's also

1:07:16

24 and hasn't been in the rotation this

1:07:18

year. Like in the Kawhi PG era, they

1:07:20

really have not manufactured a single guy other

1:07:23

than Terrence Mann. That's basically it. They already

1:07:25

had Zubat at that point. Yeah, it's pretty

1:07:27

ugly. So, and this is an interesting way

1:07:30

to, part of the reason why we like to do this again

1:07:32

is, you know, obviously the clickbait,

1:07:34

but in addition to that, like, yeah, you

1:07:36

know, the Portland Trailblazers and the Detroit Pistons,

1:07:39

they've had a lot of pain. They're on

1:07:41

the road for a lot of pain. And,

1:07:43

you know, they're kind of middle of the

1:07:45

road still in terms of young cores. And

1:07:48

then you look at just the complete inability

1:07:50

to develop any young players by some of

1:07:52

these teams at the bottom and how

1:07:54

good, what kind of a shape would the Clippers

1:07:57

or Suns or Bucks be in? You know, like

1:07:59

if Marjan We're actually good, right? Like

1:08:01

how much better would the Bucks be right now? Let's

1:08:04

see here You want to go back and talk a

1:08:06

little bit about where what we came up with in

1:08:09

2021 when we did this last time? Yes, I do

1:08:11

Let me let me make sure that my with you

1:08:13

or did you if unless you can find your you

1:08:15

know Find your own list I can just share with

1:08:17

you my I haven't sure we were in lock stuff

1:08:20

I have my player list, but I don't think I

1:08:22

have my rankings which thankfully I have for this year.

1:08:24

Um, Okay, it

1:08:26

is now it is now up on my computer

1:08:29

I think number one the first thing that stands out

1:08:31

to me is that there's just a lot more out

1:08:33

this year Then there was three years

1:08:36

ago. Yeah that Denver team I mean

1:08:38

it ended up being the most

1:08:40

of the foundation of a championship team I mean

1:08:43

it took a couple years, but it ended up

1:08:45

happening Like yokich was 25 Murray 23 Porter

1:08:47

jr. 22 and Aaron Gordon who they had

1:08:49

just acquired at that time 25 That's

1:08:52

that's four-fifths of one

1:08:54

of the better bidding starting lineups that we've seen

1:08:56

that that's exactly what we are talking about here

1:08:59

When it comes to young cores and those guys

1:09:01

are three years on They'll

1:09:03

look at like they're not gonna be stopping anytime soon And

1:09:06

and then you look at that group below and I

1:09:08

think it tells it tells a good story as

1:09:10

well with the tier two So you have the

1:09:12

Celtics back when Tatum and Brown were both eligible

1:09:14

and you had Robert Williams and Grant Williams And

1:09:17

so part of that is like the the star-looking

1:09:19

guys when they had already established at some point

1:09:21

in 20 in this point 21 They

1:09:23

they delivered and then we saw some shift

1:09:26

and we you've talked a lot about this

1:09:28

when we've been comparing teams like the top

1:09:30

twos and the Celtics are an instructive example

1:09:32

of why that was useful because they're however

1:09:34

you want to rank it there three through

1:09:36

five were Those guys

1:09:38

have all kind of been marginalized first of

1:09:40

all on the Celtics But in general like

1:09:43

they haven't had the kind of championship shifting

1:09:45

equity other than Robert Williams That's extra 22

1:09:47

and then but it's also a reminder because

1:09:50

somebody who I can't remember how in-depth I

1:09:52

ordered this here. Neesmith was buried within

1:09:54

this and then now he's still a

1:09:56

positive factor for a completely different team

1:09:58

Well, speaking of a positive factor for

1:10:00

a completely different team. This is, I mean, we've

1:10:02

kind of, we've gone through this ad nauseam at

1:10:05

this point. And so we did this around the

1:10:07

same time basically. This is, right

1:10:09

towards the end of the regular season in 2021.

1:10:12

And so Christoph Srosingas was, had gotten injured

1:10:14

in the bubble. He'd actually been pretty good

1:10:16

in the bubble, but then he'd gotten injured.

1:10:18

Jalen Brunson was right about to, he'd

1:10:21

had a breakout season, but then he was

1:10:23

right about to get buried during the playoffs

1:10:25

and the Clippers. But I mean, holy shit,

1:10:27

21 year old Lucas Daunchers, 24 year old

1:10:29

Jalen Brunson, 25 year old Christoph Srosingas. Sure.

1:10:31

Maybe it's unrealistic that they could have gotten

1:10:33

all these guys playing as well as they're

1:10:35

playing right now all in the same team.

1:10:37

But, and also like if they'd gotten Brunson

1:10:39

just on that extension, that is just an

1:10:41

insane young core. And I was most at

1:10:43

the time we were sort of like, ah,

1:10:45

you know, Brunson, Porsingas, like those guys are

1:10:47

just okay. And you know, it's all about

1:10:49

Luca and that's why they're here. I had

1:10:52

the number three Celtics were two, Nuggets

1:10:54

were number one in their own tier.

1:10:56

I mean, three, three all NBA caliber

1:10:59

players depending on, yeah. Yeah. Like,

1:11:01

like man, what a, I think you think

1:11:03

about that. Like particularly Porsingas had like figured

1:11:05

out the posting up and then him playing

1:11:07

stretch five with Luca and Jalen Brunson just

1:11:10

driving around him. I mean, that would just

1:11:12

spin like they could have, and

1:11:14

they still would have needed some help on the

1:11:16

wing. But remember they could have like actually made

1:11:18

some of these trades that they made too as

1:11:20

well. They wouldn't have had to trade for Kyrie.

1:11:22

They could have used that to try to go

1:11:24

get somebody else. Yeah. It could have been decent.

1:11:27

And this is a time capsule also for

1:11:30

the high water mark, arguably for the

1:11:32

Pelicans core, where it was like, that

1:11:34

was, we're still really excited about Lonzo.

1:11:37

Josh Hart was on his team. And

1:11:39

so you had like, he kind of had that.

1:11:41

I remember talking about this, about how you,

1:11:43

you could fill all the positions. I was

1:11:45

still a fan of Nikhil Alexander Walker as

1:11:47

I am now. And then the team that

1:11:49

we gave. And this was also Zion probably

1:11:51

at his height in terms, because he

1:11:54

actually played that whole 21 season. And that to me

1:11:56

should have been second team on BA that year. That

1:11:58

was, that was the point, Zion. Stan

1:12:00

Van. Yeah. Yeah, but we're sort of like, oh

1:12:02

yeah, like it looks like he's gotten over these

1:12:04

health issues and like he's really good. And then

1:12:07

yeah, they lose ball and free agency. And that

1:12:09

was obviously the right decision with his injury issues.

1:12:12

And they didn't have Trey Murphy yet at

1:12:14

this point. They didn't have Jose Alvarado, like

1:12:16

some of the guys that they didn't have

1:12:18

heard of Jones either, like that 22 or

1:12:20

sorry, 21 draft was so huge

1:12:23

for the Pels. But yeah,

1:12:25

so it was pretty interesting. And

1:12:27

then I was going to say the team that we gave short

1:12:29

trip to at that point, though they ended up

1:12:31

eschewing this quarter to do the other things

1:12:34

is the sons where I mean Booker, Bridges,

1:12:36

Eton, Johnson, like that's a really strong group.

1:12:38

Even if Eton never became the player that

1:12:40

we wanted to Cam Johnson arguably didn't, but

1:12:42

Booker and Bridges both nasty. Well, the sons

1:12:44

were headed towards the two seed at that

1:12:47

point in time. I think I was just

1:12:49

lower on Bridges and Eton than some at

1:12:51

that point. And then the grids too, the grids

1:12:54

would go on to win 56 games the

1:12:56

following season. They already had Morant, Jackson and

1:12:58

Bain also had Dylan Brooks as part of

1:13:00

their group at that point. And but Bain

1:13:02

was he was just a backup shooting guard

1:13:05

that point. They also had Grayson Allen, Tyus

1:13:07

Jones, the Anthony Melton on that team, Justice

1:13:09

Winslow was only 24 sky was the limit

1:13:11

for him at that point. Also, they had

1:13:13

John's a Porter if they needed more gambling

1:13:16

advice. And then I also

1:13:18

actually had the Hawks in this group, which

1:13:20

certainly seemed prescient when they made the conference

1:13:22

finals, although that was obviously playing over their

1:13:24

but they're headed towards the five seed then.

1:13:27

Wolves were probably too low at this

1:13:29

point, but this was like right when

1:13:31

Anthony Edwards had been atrocious at that

1:13:33

point. And Carl

1:13:35

Antutons was only 25 then. And we

1:13:38

liked the Hornets too with Lamello and Miles

1:13:40

Bridges having a big breakout. The Hornets had

1:13:43

Malik Monk on their team still at that

1:13:45

point. And the Thunder worth noting too, basically

1:13:47

the only guys they had three years

1:13:49

ago that are part of this amazing

1:13:51

group right now is Shay and Ludor.

1:13:54

And on the idea that's worth noting

1:13:56

how quickly it can change. How quickly

1:13:58

it can change and okay. You

1:14:00

know, they did have their own picks and they've had

1:14:02

some extras and everything else like that But yeah, that's

1:14:04

that's pretty striking speaking of other kind of oh, yeah.

1:14:07

Yeah Yeah, I mean in tier

1:14:09

six But you think about just where this

1:14:11

group ended up in albeit not in the

1:14:13

same locale Zach Levine Kobe white Patrick Williams

1:14:15

lorry marketed that would be the foundation of

1:14:17

a pretty interesting team other than the Zach

1:14:19

Levine Elements of it, but

1:14:21

then also also sack I mean, yeah

1:14:23

with Tyrese Halbert and and De'Aaron Fox

1:14:26

together at that point And

1:14:28

Marvin Bagley can't forget him. He can

1:14:30

but oh MB three

1:14:32

years 37 million. All right. This

1:14:34

is fun. I Liked the fact that we

1:14:37

I think this is the first time we've actually gone back That

1:14:39

was probably the most interesting thing to me But

1:14:41

speaking of interesting we're gonna have one

1:14:44

of our tentpole episodes coming tomorrow stay

1:14:46

tuned for that Thanks so much for

1:14:48

subscribing and we'll talk to you

1:14:50

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