0:00

Hello Welcome to dust jackets

0:14

conversations with authors. My

0:18

guest today is Alma Alexander.

0:18

ALMA is not someone I know

0:23

personally and I haven't yet had

0:23

a chance to read any of her

0:26

books. However, her background

0:26

and the topics of her books do

0:30

intrigue me. ALMA is a fantasy

0:30

writer whose novels include the

0:35

World Weavers young adult

0:35

series. Voya magazine suggested

0:39

her world Weaver series of four

0:39

books might be just the thing

0:42

for readers suffering Harry

0:42

Potter withdrawal. That is a

0:47

great review.

0:49

Well, actually,

0:49

I got two different kinds of

0:51

reviews for those books. One was

0:51

that it was a great withdrawal

0:57

antidote for Harry Potter.

0:57

Implying that it's the same sort

1:01

of thing if you like Harry Potter that you love these books. It's the same sort of

1:03

story and all this. The other

1:05

one is diametrically opposite.

1:05

It says, these books are nothing

1:08

like Harry Potter, they're

1:08

completely unique. They're

1:10

completely different. There's

1:10

something else entirely.

1:15

Well, both of those are good.

1:16

As long as that

1:16

person can say why don't I read

1:19

them and decide for yourself,

1:19

right.

1:23

So let me just

1:23

tell you a little bit about Alma

1:25

and where she comes from. She's

1:25

a native of Yugoslavia, and she

1:30

grew up in various African

1:30

countries, including Zambia,

1:33

Eswatini, and South Africa. And

1:33

she's also spent time in England

1:38

and New Zealand before moving to

1:38

the United States.

1:41

In addition to her fantasy

1:41

novels, she's published a memoir

1:45

about growing up in Africa, and

1:45

an epistolary novel written with

1:49

her husband about the NATO war

1:49

in Yugoslavia. She's also

1:53

written and published numerous

1:53

book reviews, travelogues,

1:56

essays, poetry, and other

1:56

articles in various magazines

2:00

around the world. In fact, in

2:00

2000, her short story, The

2:04

Painting, won the 2000 BBC short

2:04

story contest. In 2009, she

2:11

donated her archive to the

2:11

Department of Rare Books and

2:14

Special Collections at Northern

2:14

Illinois University. And since

2:18

then, she has published at least

2:18

nine additional titles. So

2:23

welcome, Alma, I'm so happy to

2:23

have you here. And I hope that

2:28

you feel free to answer these

2:28

questions in any way you like.

2:31

And if I forget anything along

2:31

the way that you just want to

2:34

talk about, feel free to just

2:34

start in and mention that.

2:40

So my first question for you is

2:40

that your books seem to be

2:47

primarily based in mythology,

2:47

and explore the mind from both a

2:52

cultural and intellectual

2:52

perspective. Can you talk about

2:56

why you've chosen to focus on

2:56

the fantasy or magical side of

3:00

speculative fiction?

3:03

Well, I keep on

3:03

telling everybody who cares to

3:05

listen that all fiction is

3:05

fantasy period, because it's

3:08

basically alive to begin with.

3:08

And essentially, what we

3:12

consider to be fantasy is just a

3:12

subset of that greater circle of

3:19

literary work. The thing about

3:19

fantasy, with a small F, as in

3:25

the fantasy subset that deals

3:25

with a sort of metamorphic and

3:29

magical kind of stuff, is that,

3:29

for me, it's freeing. You are

3:38

not tied into a set of

3:38

preconceived and pre understood

3:46

notions and prejudices that the

3:46

real world brings with it.

3:50

Inevitably, if you set a book in

3:50

our world, in the world that we

3:55

live in right now, in the world

3:55

outside this window, we all know

3:58

that world really, really well.

3:58

We know what's going on in that

4:03

world. If we're halfway

4:03

connected or plugged into the

4:05

current situation, we know

4:05

what's going on outside of our

4:09

backyard. We know that the world

4:09

is going to hell in a

4:12

handbasket. In a lot of ways.

4:12

There's a lot of things that are

4:18

human centered in the

4:18

Anthropocene as they call it,

4:21

which is how people treat each

4:21

other. And that is a building

4:24

block of fiction of fantasy, if

4:24

you like. But in this kind of

4:30

context, writing a story that is

4:30

fictional, but set in our world

4:37

and dealing with these horrid

4:37

hard truths can step on a lot of

4:43

metaphorical toes. There are a

4:43

lot of readers who are going to

4:46

react viscerally to something

4:46

that is being presented to them,

4:50

which is not their own

4:50

worldview, not their own point

4:54

of view, which is directly

4:54

opposing to what they think and

4:58

they feel. Because the world, the world in

5:00

which the book is set in the

5:03

world in which they live out the

5:03

same world, they're going to

5:06

feel almost targeted by

5:06

something like this. Whereas in

5:11

fantasy world, you can set up a

5:11

situation which is remarkably

5:15

similar to reality, but it is

5:15

not. And what you're getting

5:20

people to do is understand and

5:20

internalize certain hard truths.

5:25

And a sort of hard pill that is

5:25

coated with this sugarcoating of

5:29

fantasy. You can teach people a lot of

5:30

things that they may not

5:34

necessarily be inclined to

5:34

learn, if you like, if you're

5:39

writing a fantasy story like

5:39

that. This is not to say that

5:41

I'm considering fantasy to be a

5:41

sort of allegorical, preachy,

5:46

here's my podium, this is what I

5:46

think about the world. And I'm

5:48

just gonna wrap it up with sugar

5:48

plums and then try it and just

5:51

drop it down your throat. That's

5:51

not what I'm saying. But what I

5:54

am saying is that if there is a

5:54

harder truth that you want to

5:57

explore, wrapping it up in the

5:57

silver tissue of Why that is

6:01

fantasy. It is a remarkable tool

6:01

for reaching people who might

6:07

not otherwise have been reached at all.

6:09

So I really love

6:09

that analogy. And, I find for

6:13

myself, the same thing is true

6:13

in science fiction, which is

6:18

more what I write although I

6:18

have written some fantasy. So

6:22

um, I did see an anthology or

6:22

two on your website that does

6:27

have science fiction. Do you

6:27

write in that as well?

6:32

Well, my first

6:32

real science fiction novel came

6:34

out last year, which is this.

6:34

The Second Star. In fact, like a

6:43

lot of my stories have really

6:43

weird genesis points. And this

6:51

one turned up in a single

6:51

sentence that I woke up with

6:54

from a deep sleep. And then I

6:54

spent the rest of the next three

7:00

weeks asking what-if questions

7:00

around that particular sentence,

7:04

and then that just kind of

7:04

gotten broader, more dominant.

7:08

Before I knew what I was doing,

7:08

I had 160,000 words.

7:13

Oh, my goodness.

7:17

So I do that a

7:17

lot. When I, when I did my weird

7:25

Chronicles books, they

7:25

started...there was an email

7:32

that floated about that somebody

7:32

was doing an anthology about

7:35

weird creatures. But they didn't

7:35

way what they wanted. Other

7:40

stuff they wanted. Weird, exotic

7:40

Were creatures, they wanted

7:43

something different. So I

7:43

decided to start writing a short

7:46

story for this anthology. I

7:46

ended up with not one novel, but

7:52

three novels. And the possibility of a second

7:54

Were Chronicles trilogy coming

7:58

up eventually, because I left a

7:58

lot a world open for me to

8:02

explore. So I mean, when I start

8:02

writing something, I never know

8:06

when it's going to stop. It's

8:06

like riding a bareback horse

8:09

without any kind of tack and

8:09

just trying very hard to hang

8:12

on, until it stops somewhere

8:12

where it wants to.

8:15

Oh, my goodness.

8:15

In terms of those Were novels, I

8:20

know when we've briefly talked

8:20

about this before, what sets

8:23

them apart, and in my mind,

8:23

makes them science fiction as

8:27

opposed to fantasy, is that you

8:27

actually did some research about

8:32

how these creatures could

8:32

evolve.

8:35

Well, I actually

8:35

have a master's degree in

8:37

molecular biology. Ah, which was

8:37

remarkably useless in the career

8:43

that I was doing until now. When

8:43

I was starting to write these

8:50

books, I actually posited a

8:50

way--I am a hard technical

8:54

science person--I don't know how

8:54

much is gonna go over

8:56

everybody's head. But there is a

8:56

lot of stuff in it.

9:00

In your DNA, every cell of your

9:00

body, there is a hell of a lot

9:05

of DNA probably longer than you

9:05

are in every cell of your body.

9:10

A bunch of that DNA is what they

9:10

call junk DNA, which is

9:14

essentially not directly

9:14

applicable to anything that they

9:19

can figure out. And a lot of

9:19

your DNA, which is applicable to

9:25

this kind of stuff doesn't come

9:25

in a chunk, like your gene

9:28

starts here. And here. No, it's

9:28

more like a gene starts here and

9:31

ends here. And then there's

9:31

another junk DNA and there's

9:33

more DNA was there and then

9:33

there's another kind of junk DNA

9:36

and there's something else over

9:36

there, there's more of a genome.

9:39

So basically it gets reread and

9:39

the RNA kind of figures out

9:43

which parts of your DNA connect

9:43

to this particular thing that

9:46

you're trying to figure out is part of a human. But there's a whole lot of stuff in there that

9:48

doesn't really attach to

9:53

anything specific. And the way

9:53

that a lot of this works is by

9:57

operons. An operon is a certain

9:57

sequence of DNA which the mRNA

10:02

that reads the genome, is going

10:02

to attach to this particular bit

10:06

and say, Okay, I'm doing this

10:06

particular job, the gene for

10:10

this particular job starts over

10:10

here. This is my operon signal.

10:13

I'm going to start reading from here, and I'm going to pick up whatever is attached to this

10:15

kind of thing. Well, what I posited was, what

10:17

happens if all this junk DNA

10:22

that we don't know what it does,

10:22

if your RNA starts reading it

10:25

from a different set of operons,

10:25

it reads a different creature.

10:30

Ah, so

10:30

essentially, there's a space for

10:34

an entirely different double

10:34

self inside your DNA that can

10:39

create a creature, like a Were creature and ignore the human DNA.

10:41

It was actually

10:41

fun to figure this out. It was

10:43

just fun to sit there and figure

10:43

out that this is actually

10:45

possible. And my professor, the

10:45

guy who supervised my master's

10:49

degree, wrote back to me an

10:49

email saying the science is as

10:52

good as it gets.

10:53

Oh, that's

10:53

wonderful. You know, I have

10:56

often wondered, because of

10:56

evolution, you know, how much of

11:05

DNA is from animals, before we

11:05

evolved to be what we are today.

11:08

How much came forward? And if

11:08

perhaps some of that is the junk

11:12

DNA that we don't really know

11:12

what it does? Because it's, if

11:15

we're not using it, we think, in

11:15

terms of what we look at so

11:21

much, we don't really know.

11:23

Yeah, the other

11:23

part of this equation is that

11:27

it's a question of translating

11:27

maths and metabolism, if you

11:33

like. And if you as a human are

11:33

being turned into a Weird Mouse,

11:40

the size differential is kind of

11:40

radical, and all that difference

11:45

has to go somewhere. If you by

11:45

the other extreme, if you as a

11:50

human being turned into a

11:50

grizzly bear, same thing

11:53

applies, but in a different

11:53

direction. The bear is so much

11:56

more massive than you are. So

11:56

from somewhere you have to find

11:59

the energy to to be the bear

11:59

kind of thing, right? So what I

12:02

posited is that, what happens is

12:02

that the energy of changing into

12:08

a creature that's much bigger

12:08

than you are, goes into that

12:11

metabolism. So if you turn into

12:11

the mouse, you become a

12:14

supercharged mouse, your

12:14

metabolism level just skyrockets

12:21

and goes through the roof. And

12:21

vice versa, if you turn to the

12:25

big bear, you'll be sleepy and

12:25

slow as they can possibly be,

12:27

because all of that energy is

12:27

going into maintaining the bear,

12:31

which is not right. So the creatures who change into

12:33

the creatures who people change

12:38

into are constrained by this.

12:38

And a lot of the shifters who do

12:45

change into to something like a

12:45

mouse pay for this because their

12:50

bodies are, you know, really

12:50

racked by this. I mean, think

12:54

about what goes on in terms of

12:54

changing your entire insides

12:58

into something else. Your heart

12:58

suddenly beats how many times

13:02

faster. Think what happens if

13:02

you suddenly became a

13:05

hummingbird? You'd explode?

13:08

Yeah, exactly.

13:08

Exactly. Wow. That's really a

13:14

lot to think about. I perhaps

13:14

that's one of the reasons for

13:17

the most part, I've never liked

13:17

shifter worlds. But I do like

13:22

the idea of there being other

13:22

seemingly human like creatures.

13:27

The one thing

13:27

that I strongly believe in, and

13:31

it's really important in fantasy

13:31

creation, is that there is no

13:35

such thing as a free lunch.

13:35

Everything has a price. All

13:37

magic has a price. And sometimes

13:37

that price is more than you may

13:41

be willing to pay. But you have

13:41

to know that there is a price

13:45

that if you do something that is

13:45

magical and big, you're going to

13:51

have to count on the fact that

13:51

somewhere along the line there's

13:54

a reckoning coming of some sort

13:54

and you have to be willing to

13:58

pay it.

13:59

Yeah, I absolutely

13:59

agree with you. And that

14:02

actually leads directly into my

14:02

next question, which is that any

14:07

kind of speculative fiction

14:07

requires really good world

14:10

building to be believable. And

14:10

part of that is just as you

14:13

said, you know that magic has a

14:13

price or shifters have a price,

14:18

you know? So can you just talk a

14:18

bit about how you approach this

14:22

process? Do you like plan out

14:22

your world and the rules of that

14:27

world before you start? Or does

14:27

it come while you're writing the

14:32

book? Does it happen a bit more

14:32

organically and then you go back

14:35

and and tweak it to make sure it

14:35

actually makes sense.

14:37

I'm your

14:37

ultimate pantser. I tend to tell

14:40

people that what I do is I take

14:40

a story seed and I stick it into

14:43

a story pot, and I never know

14:43

what's going to come out. A

14:45

cabbage or a redwood until I

14:45

start writing the thing. I find

14:51

out what happens a lot of the

14:51

time while I'm typing the scene.

14:55

As in I'm looking at my

14:55

character doing something

14:58

What?

14:58

Yyou expect me to get you out of

15:02

this? He could walk? Why didn't

15:02

you warn me? You're on your own

15:07

boy. But the flip side of that is

15:08

that my characters just kind of

15:13

wander out of the woodwork fully

15:13

formed and they take over and I

15:15

just sit there and take

15:15

dictation as it were. And if I

15:18

do it wrong in the shifter work,

15:18

for instance, a character called

15:23

Chalky, basically, sat on my bed

15:23

at three o'clock in the morning,

15:26

kicking his heel against the

15:26

side of the bed very annoyingly,

15:29

and telling me I did not say

15:29

what you said. I said, and if I

15:32

did say it, I didn't say it in

15:32

those words. Now go and fix it.

15:39

The worst part of that is that

15:39

he was right, damn his hide.

15:46

Well, I'm so glad

15:46

actually to meet another pantser

15:50

because I am one, although

15:50

probably not quite as committed

15:55

as you are. Because I will pants

15:55

along till maybe the halfway

16:01

point. And then I usually feel

16:01

kind of lost. Because I am not

16:07

quite sure where we're going.

16:07

And that starts to bother me. So

16:12

I start making up things about

16:12

where we're going and then go

16:15

back and try writing that. It

16:15

doesn't always go that way. But

16:17

it makes me feel a little more

16:17

secure.

16:23

One thing I'm

16:23

absolutely lousy at doing what

16:26

they call the Sales Synopses

16:26

which which came up with the

16:29

worldview of books. My situation

16:29

was that the first book was at

16:35

the publisher, but they wanted a

16:35

sale synopsis for the second

16:37

I can't do

16:37

that. I haven't written it yet.

16:41

They said just write a synopsis.

16:41

So I wrote the synopsis. And I

16:45

still have that synopsis. I

16:45

might say that the finished book

16:47

and that synopsis have got

16:47

absolutely nothing to do with

16:50

each other. They are, they are

16:50

there. They were very kind to

16:54

accept the book that I didn't

16:54

give them. But they asked me to

16:57

do something I can't do. I don't

16:57

know what the book is about. I

17:00

haven't written it yet. I

17:00

haven't thought it yet.

17:04

I completely

17:04

understand that. In school, when

17:08

they were teaching us how to

17:08

write papers, they wanted me to

17:10

do an outline first. And I

17:10

always wrote the paper first and

17:14

did the outline second.

17:15

I had one of

17:15

those teachers, I had one of

17:17

those teachers who insisted that

17:17

every time we handed in an

17:21

essay, it had to be preceded by

17:21

a synopsis of the essay. And I

17:25

handed in my essay. I don't do

17:25

that. So I handed in my essays

17:28

and I kept getting marks taken

17:28

off by not having the synopsis.

17:32

So eventually I just wrote the

17:32

essay, then wrote the synopsis,

17:35

copy down the synopsis, and the

17:35

essay. I handed it into him got

17:39

Yyou

17:39

see how much better it is now?

17:42

Yes, that is a

17:42

person who doesn't understand

17:48

the pantser mentality at all for

17:48

sure. So I see that you've also

17:55

written a lot of short works,

17:55

you know, short stories and

17:58

novelettes, and participated in anthologies.

18:00

Yes and I'm putting them together in collections. Yeah, this is the

18:01

latest one of those.

18:08

I can't see the

18:08

title. Can you tell us what it

18:11

says?

18:12

It's Fractured Fairy Tales.

18:14

Very good. Really

18:14

lovely cover.

18:18

So I got I got

18:18

really lucky because I am good

18:22

friends with an artist who is

18:22

amazing. And this was a

18:27

Kickstarter anthology. And when

18:27

my Kickstarter got a little bit

18:31

more money than I anticipated. I

18:31

went to my friend and I said: I

18:34

don't want to lowball you. But

18:34

I've got this extra money and I

18:37

want to use it for original art.

18:37

Would you be willing to do a

18:40

sketch for this book for this

18:40

money? And he said, Absolutely.

18:44

And I sent him a sketch. This is

18:44

my idea. This is his art. The

18:47

artwork is my idea, but I can't

18:47

draw to save my life. So I sent

18:50

him a sketch and I said, Don't laugh. He came up with this magic.

18:54

People have bought this book

18:59

because of the fact that this

18:59

book cover was on it, because

19:02

it's just so amazing.

19:05

Yeah, well and

19:05

that definitely proves the

19:07

point. How important book covers

19:07

can be in terms of sales.

19:11

I don't know. I

19:11

mean, you can probably get this

19:13

if it doesn't work, but can you

19:13

actually see the details?

19:16

Oh, yes. Now that

19:16

it's much closer that wow, that

19:19

is absolutely gorgeous. Oh my

19:19

goodness.

19:27

Wow. So um, can you just give us

19:27

an idea of why it's fractured

19:35

fairy tales?

19:36

Because these

19:36

are the stories of the fairy

19:39

tales that are told, retold,

19:39

reimagined, recast and forms

19:43

that you might not have been

19:43

anticipated them. For example,

19:46

there is a story in there or

19:46

what are the pointers for

19:49

stories that create a sort of

19:49

mini subsection in there, which

19:56

arose from an anthology I was

19:56

editing at that point. It had

20:00

stories for the UN about

20:00

refugees.

20:06

The Anthology was a charity in

20:06

Georgia and the proceeds were

20:08

going to the refugee charity.

20:08

That was the whole idea of that.

20:13

But while I was doing that the

20:13

rest of my brain, as usual, was

20:17

percolating somewhere else

20:17

entirely. And five o'clock in

20:20

the morning, I woke up and

20:20

thought, well, what if your

20:22

classic Disney princesses, and

20:22

everybody will recognize ithem

20:25

mmediately, were refugees? So I

20:25

got up at five o 'clock in the

20:30

morning and I was tapping

20:30

furious. And I'm not a morning

20:33

person. All right. I don't

20:33

usually do this. In early

20:36

mornings. I'm, a um huh? Who?

20:36

What day is it?

20:41

Oh, my goodness,

20:41

wow.

20:41

I was sitting there at my

20:41

husband's computer as it

20:43

It's absolutely

20:43

like this is what I'm talking

20:43

happened, because it was the

20:43

closest one. He came out and he

20:47

said, What are you doing? And I

20:47

said, I'm trying to write a

20:50

story. Go away. Five o'clock in

20:50

the morning, I wrote the first

20:52

about. When I say fantasy can

20:52

give you a platform which you

20:54

one. The rest of them I wrote

20:54

that day. Four stories and the

20:57

princesses in question, which

20:57

you will recognize immediately

21:01

as Cinderella, Snow White,

21:01

Sleeping Beauty and Little Mermaid.

21:12

might not otherwise have. There

21:12

are backstories here, there are

21:18

situations here that you can

21:18

translate into what is going on

21:22

in our own world. In fact, the

21:22

Cinderella story was almost

21:28

directly inspired by images that

21:28

kept on coming through while the

21:32

Syrian refugees, at the time,

21:32

that people were running from

21:34

this hot war and basically

21:34

leaving everything just to get

21:38

out with their skins. That was

21:38

what more or less triggered that

21:43

story and the rest of it just

21:43

just came and followed. And some

21:47

of these stories are harrowing

21:47

stuff. I mean, these are not

21:50

your children's fairy tale. This

21:50

is not something you read

21:52

someone to sleep with.

21:55

But then neither was Grim, really.

21:56

Yes Grim. And

21:56

most importantly, neither was

21:57

Oh, I love that

21:57

story so much.

22:00

Hans Christian Andersen, which

22:00

is what I cut my teeth on. I

22:04

mean, Anderson's original

22:04

stories were not happy. I mean,

22:07

And, again, this

22:07

was one of those things that I'm

22:08

think about the original Little

22:08

Mermaid had no singing lobsters

22:12

in it, it was a tragedy. Right?

22:12

And there's another story in

22:16

there that is a retelling or

22:16

re-inspired by a Hans Christian

22:17

that are mapped directly on to

22:17

our situation under a story rich

22:21

Andersen story. And that's The

22:21

Little Match Girl.

22:23

from our own headlines, in my

22:23

Little Match Girl, she is a

22:38

little Latina girl in the pens

22:38

of refugee children ripped from

22:43

their parents on our borders.

22:46

Oh my goodness.

22:46

Wow, that is quite an

22:50

imagination, I have to admit to

22:50

be able to, to take something

22:54

that's going on in our own lives

22:54

and make a connection to fable

23:00

is amazing. I have a really hard

23:00

time separating that. I get like

23:03

get lost and despondent about

23:03

what's going on in our own

23:07

lives. And then I see my writing

23:07

and fantasy is something that's

23:10

completely separate, I just

23:10

really admire that, that you can

23:14

do that.

23:17

I've got a very

23:17

strange story telling brain.

23:23

All to our benefit.

23:24

It's basically a

23:24

set of jumble, jigsaw puzzle.

23:29

And every now and again, I just

23:29

take a piece from one puzzle and

23:31

put it into another puzzle. And

23:31

it fits perfectly. So the whole

23:34

thing changes, the whole picture

23:34

changes immediately.

23:36

Wow. So can you

23:36

talk a little bit about for you,

23:42

is there a difference in the

23:42

forms for you? Do you have

23:45

difficulty in writing short

23:45

versus longer? Because there's

23:49

not very many people I know who

23:49

can do them both well. And you

23:53

certainly seem to do that. You

23:53

know, most people tend to choose

23:56

one format, you know, either the

23:56

novel or maybe a novella, or the

24:01

short story. Not that many, you

24:01

know are more equal, which you

24:04

seem to be very split from what

24:04

I can tell from from your

24:07

website.

24:07

They are two

24:07

very different beasts and short

24:11

stories are that much tougher,

24:11

simply because it's that much

24:15

more constrained. I mean, if you

24:15

have a novel, which is anything

24:20

above 40,000 words, depending on

24:20

how long you go, you have a lot

24:25

of elbow room. Yes you can start

24:25

with a story. And then you can

24:30

figure out some stories and

24:30

subplots, and world building and

24:34

description and character

24:34

development. And it all comes

24:39

along and you've got room for

24:39

this. If you can actually build

24:43

this book brick by brick and

24:43

into some kind of pyramid that

24:48

has some kind of sense. A short

24:48

story you have. What? What's the

24:52

short story 7000 words on the

24:52

outside, right? Usually two to

24:57

four, right? Usually two to four.

24:59

You have to match space. And

24:59

every word has to count every

25:03

word has to be that word, the

25:03

perfect word, the word that

25:07

means that thing that you want

25:07

to say, because you don't have

25:10

the room to go off into the

25:10

brambles for a word. There's

25:14

just no space for that. A short

25:14

story is this absolutely

25:18

brilliant little gem that has to

25:18

spit precisely in good setting,

25:22

because otherwise, the whole

25:22

thing is just wreck. There's a

25:25

lot of people who start out

25:25

writing short stories who don't

25:28

know where to begin one and

25:28

don't know where to end one,

25:30

these two are very, very

25:30

important things because some

25:33

people will begin a short story

25:33

a long way before the story

25:36

begins. And then they find

25:36

themselves getting, I don't

25:40

know, trapped by the fact that

25:40

then they're halfway through the

25:43

story, shape, and they still

25:43

haven't started their story yet.

25:48

And then there's people who

25:48

finish the story somewhere

25:50

brilliant, and then overwrite

25:50

their ending because they feel

25:54

that something else is required.

25:54

So they write another 1000 words

25:57

over and above that, and just

25:57

carry on and you kind of go

26:00

here, yeah, this is, this is

26:00

stuffing, this is padding take

26:04

This is why I'm a very good

26:04

editor of other people's work, I

26:04

this away. can see these things happening

26:08

when they're thrown at me. I can

26:13

see like your story ended, like

26:13

three paragraphs ago, all of

26:17

this is not necessary. The power

26:17

of your story ends here. This is

26:22

where you leave, and endings are

26:22

so important. Because that is

26:27

the thing that you leave your

26:27

reader with. That is the last

26:30

thing that they take away with

26:30

them. That is the thing that

26:32

they will remember, sometimes

26:32

the last word of the story is

26:37

going to linger in your head. I

26:37

mean, take, for example, for a

26:42

short story, the 9 billion Names

26:42

of God. Have you read that?

26:47

I have not.

26:48

Arthur C. Clarke?

26:50

No, I've read

26:50

Arthur C. Clarke novels, but I

26:52

have not read this short story.

26:53

This is

26:53

basically about a computer that

26:56

that is working to print out the

26:56

9 billion Names of God. And what

27:03

happens when that work is done.

27:03

The whole story is working

27:06

towards this ending. And it's

27:06

working. And it's working. And

27:10

it's working. And now it's

27:10

finished. And then the

27:13

characters look up. And the last

27:13

word, the last sentence of that

27:16

story is overhead without any

27:16

sound. The stars were going out

27:20

one by one.

27:22

Oh my gosh. Wow.

27:22

You just stop there.

27:25

Yeah. And your hair stands up on your arm.

27:27

It gives me shivers.

27:28

A lot of people

27:28

who don't know when to stop, I'm

27:33

going to go on and explain this

27:33

now. Right, we started going up,

27:37

you know? Yeah, right. You don't

27:37

need to know, you know that once

27:41

God is fully named, everything

27:41

else becomes irrelevant. The

27:45

World Ends. Andyou don't need to

27:45

say anything else. This is the

27:50

end of that story. This is the

27:50

end of everything.

27:52

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

27:52

So do you have a favorite

27:59

between those two forms for

27:59

yourself?

28:04

No, because it

28:04

depends on what I'm trying to

28:06

do. And depends on what I'm trying to write. I mean, the princess stories were definitely

28:08

short stories. They were not

28:11

novel length. There wasn't

28:11

enough there for novel length

28:15

material. On the other hand, the

28:15

shifter short story was

28:18

definitely not the short story

28:18

that I set out to write. So

28:21

depends on the material, it

28:21

depends on what I'm trying to do

28:25

with it, where it's supposed to

28:25

go. And if it grips hard enough

28:28

to actually show me that there

28:28

is a lot more iceberg under that

28:32

surface than I thought that

28:32

there would there was just by

28:34

looking at the what I could see.

28:37

Okay, well, I

28:37

admire you, I have to say. I

28:42

have written some short stories,

28:42

maybe 30, over 40 years. But

28:47

they're always difficult for me.

28:47

I almost always start them

28:52

because of an anthology or

28:52

something I've been invited

28:55

into. And, at least 50% of the

28:55

time, I get past whatever the

29:03

requirement is, whether it's

29:03

4000 words or 7500 words top

29:07

and, and then it's too long and

29:07

there's nothing for me to give.

29:10

So I admire that you can see

29:10

firstly, opportunities and

29:15

second that you can actually

29:15

execute them.

29:19

So you've had a long career as a

29:19

writer and I wonder if you can

29:25

talk about you know, what keeps

29:25

you going and move through

29:30

challenges. I mean, so many

29:30

different times, not only in

29:33

your own life, but in the life

29:33

of our country or the world as a

29:37

whole. So many writers get kind

29:37

of bogged down in events that

29:42

are happening outside of them.

29:42

So can you just give us a little

29:46

bit about what keeps you going

29:50

it's just who I

29:50

am. It's what I do. It's how I

29:58

think. I think that in certain

29:58

contexts, there are times in my

30:07

life when things happen, and I

30:07

just shut down, which includes

30:12

writing. When I went through a

30:15

particularly bad breakup, many

30:17

years ago, I spent many months,

30:17

wordless, until I heard a tiny

30:24

little voice in the back of my

30:24

brain saying, if you don't start

30:26

writing, we're all going to die.

30:28

Oh, wow.

30:30

So I just kind

30:30

of started picking it up again,

30:32

and then kept on writing. The

30:32

last six months have been

30:36

difficult. I haven't really

30:36

written anything original,

30:38

except for one story, which I

30:38

think is madly self indulgent.

30:42

And it's probably never gonna

30:42

get seen by anybody. But it's

30:49

sometimes it's hard to find the

30:49

heart to go somewhere where you

30:58

can't see if you're adrift in a

30:58

sea, which is just horizon. It's

31:03

very hard to, you know, to find

31:03

that shore which to just get out

31:07

of the water on. But more often than not, that

31:10

shore is always there, for me,

31:16

at least as a shape on clouds

31:16

somewhere as a reflection in the

31:22

water. I know it's there. I know

31:22

it's in here. And it's somewhere

31:27

where I just can't get at it

31:27

right now. But it's probably

31:29

going to come back. Eventually,

31:29

I hope.

31:34

No, I think it

31:34

will for sure.

31:36

Because if I

31:36

don't do it, all of us, we're

31:38

Well. And I think

31:38

that often, at least for me,

31:38

going to die. this is true. And I've gone much

31:46

longer periods of time, perhaps

31:49

than you are. Like right now I'm

31:49

sitting on two years of not

31:53

having anything original. So and

31:53

I think some of it is me being

31:58

willing to, to not only see that

31:58

the shore is there. But to want

32:04

the shore to be there. So because when I'm really

32:07

bogged down, like, right, the

32:13

thing I've been going through

32:13

lately is that there's nothing

32:17

that I can write that is as as

32:17

important as whatever the events

32:22

are of the world. And so I keep

32:22

looking for, and failing to

32:25

find, something that is as

32:25

important as that.

32:27

And this is where you write fantasy, and you use the events events in the

32:29

world to write.

32:34

Exactly, so. So

32:34

I'm slowly inching my way there,

32:39

I've actually decided, I'm going

32:39

to do a middle grade series. So

32:44

because children accept what you

32:44

say, and I don't have to write

32:49

to adults. So that's actually

32:49

what I'm going to do to get

32:52

myself out of it.

32:52

The way that I

32:52

grew up the way I was brought up

32:55

in the house that had books

32:55

everywhere is essentially no

32:58

book was forbidden. If you can

32:58

reach it, you can read it. If

33:02

you can figure it out. It's

33:02

okay. If not, you're going to

33:05

find your own level, you can put

33:05

it down because you don't

33:09

understand it, you're going to

33:09

come back to it later. That's

33:12

The librarian is going she's

33:12

seven and my parents are going

33:12

fine. By the age of four, I

33:12

taught myself to read. By the

33:15

age of seven, I'd gone through

33:15

the entire children's library in

33:19

my town and my parents got me an

33:19

adult card because I finished

33:23

everything that I wanted to read

33:23

in the kids section.

33:32

that's okay.

33:34

Wow, what a

33:34

wonderful childhood. That's just

33:40

really amazing. Well, no wonder

33:40

you're a writer. You were

33:43

connected to stories. So very

33:43

young then.

33:47

Yeah. I

33:47

basically learned to read I

33:50

taught myself to read was

33:50

because my mother read Heidi to

33:54

me when I was four. She just

33:54

read me the story as sort of

33:58

reading the story to me, and I

33:58

loved it. I probably didn't

34:02

understand three quarters of it.

34:02

But I loved the whole thing, the

34:05

whole idea of Heidi and the

34:05

goats and Grandpa in the pines,

34:07

in the cottage in the mountains,

34:07

and I just loved the whole

34:10

thing. And when she was finished

34:10

with it, she shut the book and I

34:13

said start again. She said, Oh no. So I went away and I started to

34:14

read it myself because I knew

34:19

the story. And I just figured it

34:19

out. And this is my first

34:23

memory. The first true memory

34:23

that I know is real is me

34:26

wobbling into the kitchen when

34:26

my mother was washing dishes and

34:29

asking whether she wanted me to

34:29

read to her. And what she heard

34:34

was, Do you want me to read to

34:34

you. She said I'm busy. I can't

34:38

do it right now. And I just

34:38

opened the book and started

34:40

reading and she dropped whatever

34:40

she was washing into the

34:43

dishwater and then came into the

34:43

same room.

34:49

Wow. Do you

34:49

remember how you were able to to

34:52

teach yourself?

34:53

Well, I had the

34:53

advantage there because my own

34:56

mother tongue is completely

34:56

phonetic. So there's no such

34:59

thing as spelling or weirdnesses

34:59

like the word that looks like

35:05

something but it said something

35:05

else and I couldn't recognize it

35:08

by sight. Now, in my language,

35:08

the word which the way you say

35:11

things is the way you write it.

35:11

So it's, it's directly

35:15

connected. And once I've figured

35:15

out the sounds, the words on the

35:19

page were no mystery.

35:23

Now, I think

35:23

that's something those of us who

35:25

speak English have difficulty

35:25

with. Because even using

35:29

phonetics sometimes doesn't

35:29

quite work out the way you

35:32

think. Nor the meaning that

35:32

you're looking for. So, wow.

35:36

I also learned

35:36

English, a lot of it from the

35:40

printed page. So a lot of the

35:40

words that I knew I didn't know

35:43

how to pronounce because I

35:43

learned them by reading them

35:46

phonetically but not by saying.

35:48

Ah, okay,

35:48

interesting. Wow. So, um, what

35:53

do you think is next for you? Do

35:53

you have some ideas floating in

35:57

your head right now?

35:59

Well, I'm

35:59

currently engaged in reissuing a

36:02

book that was originally written

36:02

as a single novel, but which

36:06

because it clocked in at a

36:06

quarter million words, was

36:10

published as a duology. Ah,

36:10

basically, the publisher said

36:16

split that puppy up. And I'm

36:16

putting together a 20th

36:19

anniversary edition. So instead

36:19

of these two books, you're gonna

36:22

get this book.

36:23

Oh, how wonderful.

36:23

And what are the names?

36:27

Changer of Days.

36:27

Okay, it's high fantasy. And

36:33

it's actually quite funny

36:33

because my mom is very, very non

36:38

fantastical. I often describe it

36:38

to people as someone with two

36:42

feet in the ground so firmly,

36:42

she's standing in it up to her

36:45

ankles. We're finding it very

36:45

hard to, to come to terms with

36:51

the fact that she produced

36:51

somebody who lives up in the air

36:53

fairy clouds like me. She's read

36:53

a lot of my stuff. And she

36:59

doesn't quite connect with it.

36:59

But for some reason, the most

37:02

fantastical of the fantastical,

37:02

this secondary World Fantasy.

37:06

She loves this. She says that

37:06

this book is about real people.

37:13

Oh, okay. Well, I

37:13

think that's a great compliment

37:18

for certain.

37:20

From her Yes.

37:21

Well, and if she

37:21

can, and if she does love it,

37:24

given, you know who she is, then

37:24

there may be other people like

37:28

her that that will find that

37:28

same thing. So that's, that's

37:31

really great for you. And what

37:31

is your timeline on that right

37:34

now?

37:35

I'm hoping to get it out just in time for Christmas shopping.

37:39

Ah, wow. So very

37:39

soon, then.

37:41

Yeah, at

37:41

present, I just handed it off to

37:44

someone to proofread it because

37:44

I did a very messy thing. And

37:49

there's a lot of names in here

37:49

with apostrophes in them. And I

37:52

changed something that changed

37:52

the apostrophes with double

37:55

quotes. And I had to go through

37:55

the whole thing like name by

38:00

name by apostrophe by logo to

38:00

figure out which was which and

38:04

what I was doing. So I handed it

38:04

off to someone else to proofread

38:07

it, because I'm not trusting my

38:07

own eyes at this point.

38:12

So that's where it is right now,

38:12

when that person hands it back

38:15

to me, I'll just fix all the

38:15

fixes that need to be fixed. And

38:19

then we're ready to go. I mean,

38:19

I've got everything else. I've

38:21

got original artwork for the new

38:21

cover. I'm going to miss the map

38:25

in there, which of course is

38:25

copyrighted to this publication.

38:29

So I had to redo the map,

38:29

because I had to redraw it. So

38:33

the new book has a copyrighted

38:33

map for it. So I've got that.

38:37

Everything else is in place. All

38:37

I'm waiting for is the final

38:40

shape of the manuscript and then

38:40

format that and we're off to the

38:43

races.

38:45

Excellent. Oh, I'm

38:45

so glad to hear that. I think

38:49

that a great way to stay

38:49

connected is by looking at

38:52

backlist. And seeing, you know,

38:52

how you can put those out in

38:55

different forms is really

38:55

helpful. I think.

39:01

So really, the

39:01

really weird thing is that we

39:04

were talking earlier about not

39:04

plotting and pantsing away and

39:08

there was a character in this

39:08

book, which started out as a

39:11

throwaway name in somebody

39:11

else's conversation. That

39:17

character is probably going to

39:17

get the novel of his own out of

39:20

this. It's just he just grew

39:20

like Topsy, and he just created

39:26

himself out of nothing. And he's

39:26

a very interesting guy. And at

39:31

some point, there's probably

39:31

going to be a companion novel to

39:34

this.

39:35

Oh, that will be

39:35

great. Absolutely. Wow. So we're

39:40

kind of getting towards the end

39:40

of our time. But is there any

39:43

questions I didn't ask you or

39:43

something you wanted to share

39:46

with the audience? Before we

39:46

close here?

39:51

No, I'm just a

39:51

writer who writes and I'll keep

39:55

writing as soon as I can get my

39:55

mojo back which is gonna take a

40:00

little while to get there. But

40:00

I'll I'll keep doing this

40:03

because that's the only thing I

40:03

wanted to do. And the only thing

40:06

I know how to do. Without this,

40:06

there was there was a wonderful

40:13

quote that I tend to kind of

40:13

carry around with me. Somebody

40:16

asked Ursula Le Guin once in an

40:16

interview, what would you be if

40:20

you weren't a writer? And she

40:20

said very succinctly, dead.

40:24

I believe that of

40:24

her. I absolutely do. That will

40:30

probably be my answer to and in

40:30

that kind of context.

40:34

Yeah. Well, I

40:34

think true writers have to write

40:39

you know, that is their life.

40:39

And so the way I put it before

40:45

was, if you want to be a writer,

40:45

no one can stop you. If you

40:47

don't want to be a writer, no

40:47

one can help you.

40:51

Very good. I love

40:51

that quote. I love that quote, I

40:54

think you should copyright it,

40:54

make a t-shirt.

40:59

Well, thank you very much for

40:59

your time, Alma. And thank you

41:03

listeners for listening to this

41:03

episode of Dust Jackets

41:07

conversations with authors with

41:07

my special guest, Alma

41:11

Alexander. As always, I will

41:11

have additional information on

41:15

how to contact Alma in the show

41:15

notes.